Re: The MGA revisited

On 30 March 2015 at 11:43, LizR wrote: > On 29 March 2015 at 19:25, meekerdb wrote: >> >> >> But isn't it the case that your brain evolved/learned to interpret and be >> conscious of these stimuli only because it exists in the context of this >> world? > > > That would be the anthropic explanatio

Re: The MGA revisited

On 3/28/2015 11:36 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: meekerdb wrote: On 3/28/2015 12:33 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote: meekerdb wrote: As I said, conterfactual correctness has very little to do with the actual conscious moment. That is given simply by the sequence of actual brain states -- But what is "a

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 29 March 2015 at 05:31, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > > On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 7:18 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> 2015-03-28 19:04 GMT+01:00 Telmo Menezes : >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 6:01 PM, John Clark wrote: On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 Stathis Papaioannou w

Re: Something from nothing -- my attempt of derivation of a UTM.

Mindey, Hi. I basically agree with you especially about the ball/sphere part and have posted similar ideas here and elsewhere in the past. The whole something/nothing/empty-set thing has been discussed here extensively for probably at least 15 years and was last discussed about 3-4 month

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 30 March 2015 at 15:20, John Clark wrote: > On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 9:10 PM, LizR wrote: > > But if it were a world of copying machines and John K Clark says "I" >>> expect to see Moscow tomorrow then who the hell knows what "I" means. >>> >> >> >The same is true of the MWI. >> > > No it is n

RE: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of LizR Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 6:14 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness On 30 March 2015 at 08:40, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Mar

RE: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 7:31 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 'Chris de Morsella' via Everyth

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > Can you dance? Can you shake your ass? > Are you able to deliver (on demand) “spontaneous” and convincing innocent > teenage heartthrob looks [...] Do you look like you could be sixteen year

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 9:10 PM, LizR wrote: But if it were a world of copying machines and John K Clark says "I" expect >> to see Moscow tomorrow then who the hell knows what "I" means. >> > > >The same is true of the MWI. > No it is not the same. In the MWI if John Clark says "tomorrow I will

Re: Life in the Islamic State for women

On 3/29/2015 7:06 PM, LizR wrote: On 30 March 2015 at 14:35, Kim Jones > wrote: Them? They're just idiot warmongers like the brutes they are confronting. Takes one to know one. As soon as you have "my tribe" you also unfortunately have "not in my tr

Re: Life in the Islamic State for women

On 3/29/2015 6:35 PM, Kim Jones wrote: On 30 Mar 2015, at 11:19 am, LizR mailto:lizj...@gmail.com>> wrote: On 30 March 2015 at 08:39, meekerdb > wrote: On 3/29/2015 3:55 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Please! "Hunter Gatherers" - "warriors" is a boys' cl

Re: Life in the Islamic State for women

On 30 March 2015 at 14:35, Kim Jones wrote: > > Them? They're just idiot warmongers like the brutes they are confronting. > Takes one to know one. As soon as you have "my tribe" you also > unfortunately have "not in my tribe". Besides, some of them only may be > warriors. Most are likely twelve p

Re: Life in the Islamic State for women

> On 30 Mar 2015, at 11:19 am, LizR wrote: > >> On 30 March 2015 at 08:39, meekerdb wrote: >>> On 3/29/2015 3:55 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Please! "Hunter Gatherers" - "warriors" is a boys' club term for it. >>> >>> I can accept that the term "warrior" glorifies something nasty, but what

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 11:57 PM, John Clark wrote: > On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> > Ok... Well now everybody can see you as you really are, >> > And I'm perfectly satisfied with that because that is who I really am. > What? Chief of equine relations of everything list? No

Re: The MGA revisited

On 3/29/2015 5:57 PM, LizR wrote: On 29 March 2015 at 21:04, Bruce Kellett > wrote: As you see, I believe in physicalism, not in Platonia. And I have not yet seen any argument that might lead me to change my mind. One reason that has been suggested i

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 30 March 2015 at 08:40, John Clark wrote: > On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > Come on John – are you trying to be cute? > > > Yes, do you think its working? I always wanted to be in a boy band and I > just learned t

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 29 March 2015 at 10:45, John Clark wrote: > > But if it were a world of copying machines and John K Clark says "I" > expect to see Moscow tomorrow then who the hell knows what "I" means. > The same is true of the MWI. We don't say "I expect to see both spin up and spin down", or "I expect the

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness--

I'm sure John Donne would agree. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send ema

Re: The MGA revisited

On 3/29/2015 5:43 PM, LizR wrote: On 29 March 2015 at 19:25, meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: But isn't it the case that your brain evolved/learned to interpret and be conscious of these stimuli only because it exists in the context of this world? That would be the anth

Re: The MGA revisited

On 29 March 2015 at 21:04, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > As you see, I believe in physicalism, not in Platonia. And I have not yet > seen any argument that might lead me to change my mind. One reason that has been suggested is the "unreasonable effectiveness" of maths as a description of physics. Th

Re: The MGA revisited

On 29 March 2015 at 19:25, meekerdb wrote: > > But isn't it the case that your brain evolved/learned to interpret and be > conscious of these stimuli only because it exists in the context of this > world? That would be the anthropic explanation of why we find ourselves the people we are, certai

Re: Life in the Islamic State for women

On 30 March 2015 at 08:39, meekerdb wrote: > On 3/29/2015 3:55 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > Please! "Hunter Gatherers" - "warriors" is a boys' club term for it. >> > > I can accept that the term "warrior" glorifies something nasty, but what > term to use? "Hunter Gatherer" is not what I mean.

Re: Life in the Islamic State for women

On 29 March 2015 at 23:55, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > What is missing here is that there is some evidence for a common strategy > on the women's side of being impregnated by the bad boy while marrying the > nice guy, thus obtaining both the desirable genes and the resources. The > biological games

Re: Life in the Islamic State for women

On 29 March 2015 at 17:15, meekerdb wrote: > Women have evolved to be attracted to guys that can get lots of women > pregnant - that's sexual selection in action. Peahens mate with peacocks > that have beautiful tails because that means their sons will have beautiful > tails and attract peahens

Re: Life in the Islamic State for women

On 29 March 2015 at 10:21, meekerdb wrote: > On 3/28/2015 3:12 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > Many people (notably feminists) complain about the "alpha-male" > sociopathic douchebag ruining society for everyone. But then, if you > investigate further, this archetype has a lot of success with women

Re: Life in the Islamic State for women

On 28 March 2015 at 23:12, Telmo Menezes wrote: > The characteristics of a gender have been evolved by millions of years of > selection, and women preferences play a role in this selection process. > > Not just A role but the main role, I would say. As any peahen or bowerbird can tell you, male a

Re: Something from nothing -- my attempt of derivation of a UTM.

Sure it isn't the empty box that is nothing, it's the contents of the box? I don't see that talking about nothingness renders it into something. I could talk about pink unicorns, for example, withouthang on what's the neighing sound outside my window? Excuse me a moment. -- You received this

RE: Something from nothing -- my attempt of derivation of a UTM.

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Mikes Bruno, not in my views! Why would you deem an empty box "NOTHINGNESS"? ("when all the cigarettes have been smoked") If we "talk" about nothingness, we render it a "somethingnes

Re: Where does the UTM comes from? (Was Re: Something from nothing -- my attempt of derivation of a UTM.

There is a "recording" of your life experience and mine in pi, and also in e and no doubt lots of other transfinite numbers. What breathes fire into the recordings? A UTM - which has to be instantiated in some sense (not necessairly physical). Somehow this works by takeing one set of numbers relati

Re: Life in the Islamic State for women

In one of Samiya's posts there was a remark on women - in the afterlife, not here - eliminating the gender differences after death. Here their tasks are family concerned while "over there" (???) they participate in the bliss of Heaven just as do Earthly males. I did not plunge deeply into the quest

Re: Something from nothing -- my attempt of derivation of a UTM.

Bruno, not in my views! Why would you deem an empty box "NOTHINGNESS"? ("when all the cigarettes have been smoked") If we "talk" about nothingness, we render it a "somethingness". Your 'set' INCLUDES - CONTAINS nothing, not the set itself turns into it.. Once you can say ANYTHING about the "SET" i

RE: Life in the Islamic State for women

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Telmo Menezes On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 9:39 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 3/29/2015 3:55 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Please! "Hunter Gatherers" - "warriors" is a boys' club term for it. I can acc

Re: Life in the Islamic State for women

On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 9:39 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 3/29/2015 3:55 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > Please! "Hunter Gatherers" - "warriors" is a boys' club term for it. >> > > I can accept that the term "warrior" glorifies something nasty, but what > term to use? "Hunter Gatherer" is not what I

RE: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Clark On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote: > Come on John – are you trying to be cute? Yes, do you think its working? I always wanted to be in a boy b

Re: The MGA revisited

2015-03-29 21:25 GMT+02:00 meekerdb : > On 3/29/2015 1:33 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > Le 29 mars 2015 09:03, "Bruce Kellett" a > écrit : > > > > meekerdb wrote: > >> > >> On 3/28/2015 11:54 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > >>> > >>> meekerdb wrote: > > On 3/28/2015 11:02 PM, Bruce Kelle

RE: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 10:47 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 4:36 AM, Bruno Marchal w

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > Come on John – are you trying to be cute? Yes, do you think its working? I always wanted to be in a boy band and I just learned that Zayn Malik is quitting One Direction and I'm trying to g

Re: Life in the Islamic State for women

On 3/29/2015 3:55 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Please! "Hunter Gatherers" - "warriors" is a boys' club term for it. I can accept that the term "warrior" glorifies something nasty, but what term to use? "Hunter Gatherer" is not what I mean. I refer to the people who directly confront other gr

Re: The MGA revisited

On 3/29/2015 1:33 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Le 29 mars 2015 09:03, "Bruce Kellett" > a écrit : > > meekerdb wrote: >> >> On 3/28/2015 11:54 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: >>> >>> meekerdb wrote: On 3/28/2015 11:02 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > meek

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 4:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > Quentin explained you politely the errors you made Politely?!! John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving email

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 Bruno Marchal wrote: >> Bruno starts talking about "The 1P", but there is no such thing as "The >> 1P" there is only "A 1P" > > > > The 1p is usually meant for the notion of 1p. > As if we didn't have enough ambiguity already! Who's 1P?? > We have agrred that both reconsi

RE: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Clark On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote: > John, Clearly – you must admit -- there is a certain qualitative difference > between calling someone a Liar

Where does the UTM comes from? (Was Re: Something from nothing -- my attempt of derivation of a UTM.

Hi Mindey, let me put it in this way. You seem to agree that PI exists, and I see PI indeed as an existing machine computing PI decimals, or measuring the era of a circle (with radius 1). So you are realist about arithmetic and even a bit more. Then, you can already proves the existence o

Re: The MGA revisited

On 29 Mar 2015, at 10:04, Bruce Kellett wrote: meekerdb wrote: On 3/28/2015 11:54 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: meekerdb wrote: On 3/28/2015 11:02 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: meekerdb wrote: The calculation written out on paper is a static thing, but the result of that calculation might still be

Re: The MGA revisited

On 29 Mar 2015, at 08:54, Bruce Kellett wrote: meekerdb wrote: On 3/28/2015 11:02 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: meekerdb wrote: The calculation written out on paper is a static thing, but the result of that calculation might still be part of a simulation that produces consciousness. Though, u

Re: The MGA revisited

On 29 Mar 2015, at 08:43, Bruce Kellett wrote: meekerdb wrote: On 3/28/2015 12:33 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote: meekerdb wrote: You're saying the static written out calculation instantiates a bit of consciousness? Does it matter in what language it is written or whether anyone can read it? I

Re: The MGA revisited

On 29 Mar 2015, at 08:36, Bruce Kellett wrote: meekerdb wrote: On 3/28/2015 12:33 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote: meekerdb wrote: As I said, conterfactual correctness has very little to do with the actual conscious moment. That is given simply by the sequence of actual brain states -- But what

Re: The MGA revisited

On 29 Mar 2015, at 08:27, Bruce Kellett wrote: meekerdb wrote: On 3/28/2015 12:33 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote: meekerdb wrote: Another possibility is that all those neurons that /*didn't*/ fire in the calculation were just as necessary to the experience as the one's that did. That seems quit

Re: The MGA revisited

On 29 Mar 2015, at 07:24, meekerdb wrote: On 3/28/2015 11:02 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: meekerdb wrote: On 3/28/2015 12:33 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote: No, as I said, I do not think it is helpful to describe the sequence of brain states as a calculation. If you simulate the actual brain state

Re: Life in the Islamic State for women

On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 1:33 AM, Kim Jones wrote: > > > On 28 Mar 2015, at 9:12 pm, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > Hi Kim, > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 7:47 AM, Kim Jones > wrote: > >> On 26 Mar 2015, at 2:21 pm, LizR wrote: >> >> http://www.raqqa-sl.com/en/?p=857 >> >> >> So most of these women are

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 28 Mar 2015, at 23:41, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 Quentin Anciaux wrote: > Please explain then logically how it's different from the simple duplication experiment No, there would be no point. I've already explained my reasoning over and over and over again and your rebut

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 28 Mar 2015, at 21:24, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 Quentin Anciaux wrote: > In the Answer this: of MWI, you're about to perform an electron spin measurement experiment. Before the experiment, the experimenter is asked what is the probability he will measure spin up? What wo

Re: The MGA revisited

Le 29 mars 2015 09:03, "Bruce Kellett" a écrit : > > meekerdb wrote: >> >> On 3/28/2015 11:54 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: >>> >>> meekerdb wrote: On 3/28/2015 11:02 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > meekerdb wrote: > > The calculation written out on paper is a static thing, but t

Re: Something from nothing -- my attempt of derivation of a UTM.

Hi John, On 28 Mar 2015, at 22:32, John Mikes wrote: Bruno: is an EMPTY SET indeed nothingness? Does it not include the " S E T " recognizing that it is EMPTY? nothingness may be the CONTENT of the empty set. The empty set is the set without element. You can denote it by { }. It has s

Re: Michael Graziano's theory of consciousness

On 28 Mar 2015, at 17:40, John Clark wrote: On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 Telmo Menezes wrote: > You are saying that step 3 is trivial, so you admit that it is correct No. The first 2 steps are trivialities dressed up in pompous language, but in step 3 Bruno doesn't know what he's talking abou

Re: The MGA revisited

meekerdb wrote: On 3/28/2015 11:54 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: meekerdb wrote: On 3/28/2015 11:02 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: meekerdb wrote: The calculation written out on paper is a static thing, but the result of that calculation might still be part of a simulation that produces consciousness.