On 25 Jan 2010, at 07:52, Brent Meeker wrote:
Bruno Marchal wrote:
Now, having postulated the natural numbers with addition and
multiplication, they organized themselves, independently of our
whishes, in a way which escapes *any* attempt of *complete*
unification. They defeat all
On 22 Jan 2010, at 20:52, Brent Meeker wrote:
Bruno Marchal wrote:
Hi John,
On 21 Jan 2010, at 22:19, John Mikes wrote:
Dear Bruno,
you took extra pain to describe (in your vocabulary) what I stand
for (using MY vocabulary).
-
On Thu, Jan
Bruno Marchal wrote:
[a lot of stuff I'd probably agree with if I understood it all]
Bruno, I desperately need to understand your stuff. Where do I start?
--
Mark Buda her...@acm.org
I get my monkeys for nothing and my chimps for free.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed
2010/1/24 Mark Buda her...@acm.org
Bruno Marchal wrote:
[a lot of stuff I'd probably agree with if I understood it all]
Bruno, I desperately need to understand your stuff. Where do I start?
Computer science, compiler theory , number theory, what is a program, strong
AI.
Wikipedia on those
2010/1/24 Mark Buda her...@acm.org
Bruno Marchal wrote:
[a lot of stuff I'd probably agree with if I understood it all]
Bruno, I desperately need to understand your stuff. Where do I start?
Computer science, compiler theory , number theory, what is a program,
strong AI.
Wikipedia on those
On 24 Jan 2010, at 21:44, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
2010/1/24 Mark Buda her...@acm.org
Bruno Marchal wrote:
[a lot of stuff I'd probably agree with if I understood it all]
Bruno, I desperately need to understand your stuff. Where do I start?
Computer science, compiler theory , number theory,
On 24 Jan 2010, at 22:39, Mark Buda wrote:
2010/1/24 Mark Buda her...@acm.org
Bruno Marchal wrote:
[a lot of stuff I'd probably agree with if I understood it all]
Bruno, I desperately need to understand your stuff. Where do I
start?
Computer science, compiler theory , number theory, what
Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 22 Jan 2010, at 20:52, Brent Meeker wrote:
Bruno Marchal wrote:
Hi John,
On 21 Jan 2010, at 22:19, John Mikes wrote:
Dear Bruno,
you took extra pain to describe (in your vocabulary) what I stand
for (using MY vocabulary).
Hi John,
On 21 Jan 2010, at 22:19, John Mikes wrote:
Dear Bruno,
you took extra pain to describe (in your vocabulary) what I stand
for (using MY vocabulary).
-
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
wrote:
John,
Bruno Marchal wrote:
Hi John,
On 21 Jan 2010, at 22:19, John Mikes wrote:
Dear Bruno,
you took extra pain to describe (in your vocabulary) what I stand for
(using MY vocabulary).
-
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Bruno Marchal
Hi ferrari,
It is weird, my computer decided that this mail was junk mail.
It is the first time it put an everything list post in the junk list.
I am afraid you hurt its susceptibility :)
On 20 Jan 2010, at 19:15, ferrari wrote:
come on silky,
the answer you know yourself of course.
Bruno,
while appreciating your reply to ferrari, I have to ask you a question. You
wrote:
*...What is your theory of mind? In case of disease, would accept an
artificial kidney, heart? If yes, would you accept that your daughter marry
a man who already accepted an artificial brain? ... *
giving
Dear Bruno,
you took extra pain to describe (in your vocabulary) what I stand for (using
MY vocabulary).
-
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
John,
What makes you think that a brain is something material? I
On 20 Jan 2010, at 03:09, silky wrote:
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 2:50 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
wrote:
On 19 Jan 2010, at 03:28, silky wrote:
I don't disagree with you that it would be significantly
complicated, I suppose my argument is only that, unlike with a real
cat, I -
2010/1/20 Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com:
But it also needs to be similar enough to us that we can intuit what hurts
is and what doesn't, to empathize that it may feel pain. If my car runs out
of oil does it feel pain? I'm sure my 1966 Saab doesn't, but what about my
1999 Passat - it
come on silky,
the answer you know yourself of course.
artificial is artificial. to say you are alive, you must be able to
reflect on yourself. you must be able to
create and to understand without someone teaching you and most
important there is nobody who turns
you on or off (exept your
2010/1/19 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com:
Exactly my point! I'm trying to discover why I wouldn't be so rational
there. Would you? Do you think that knowing all there is to know about
a cat is unpractical to the point of being impossible *forever*, or do
you believe that once we do know, we
Subject: Re: on consciousness levels and ai
silky wrote:
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
2010/1/18 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com:
It would be my (naive) assumption, that this is arguably trivial to
do. We can design a program that has a desire
On 19 Jan 2010, at 03:28, silky wrote:
I don't disagree with you that it would be significantly
complicated, I suppose my argument is only that, unlike with a real
cat, I - the programmer - know all there is to know about this
computer cat. I'm wondering to what degree that adds or
Dear Bruno, you picked my 'just added' small after-remark from my post and I
thought for a second that it was Brent's reply. Then your signature
explained that it was YOUR stance on life (almost) (- I search for even more
proper distinctions to that term). Maybe we should scrap the
term
Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
2010/1/19 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com:
Exactly my point! I'm trying to discover why I wouldn't be so rational
there. Would you? Do you think that knowing all there is to know about
a cat is unpractical to the point of being impossible *forever*, or do
you
Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 19 Jan 2010, at 03:28, silky wrote:
I don't disagree with you that it would be significantly complicated,
I suppose my argument is only that, unlike with a real cat, I - the
programmer - know all there is to know about this computer cat. I'm
wondering to what degree
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.comwrote:
2010/1/19 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com:
Exactly my point! I'm trying to discover why I wouldn't be so rational
there. Would you? Do you think that knowing all there is to know about
a cat is unpractical to the
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 2:50 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 19 Jan 2010, at 03:28, silky wrote:
I don't disagree with you that it would be significantly complicated, I
suppose my argument is only that, unlike with a real cat, I - the programmer
- know all there is to know
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote:
silky wrote:
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com
wrote:
silky wrote:
I'm not sure if this question is appropriate here, nevertheless, the
most direct way to find out is to ask
silky wrote:
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote:
silky wrote:
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com
wrote:
silky wrote:
I'm not sure if this question is appropriate here, nevertheless, the
most
2010/1/18 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com:
It would be my (naive) assumption, that this is arguably trivial to
do. We can design a program that has a desire to 'live', as desire to
find mates, and otherwise entertain itself. In this way, with some
other properties, we can easily model simply
Dear Brent,
is it your 'conscious' position to look at things in an anthropocentric
limitation?
If you substitute consistently 'animal' for 'pet', you can include the human
animal as well. In that case your
#1: would you consider 'distress' a disturbed mental state only, or include
organisational
On 18 Jan 2010, at 16:35, John Mikes wrote:
Is a universal mchine 'live'?
I would say yes, despite the concrete artificial one still needs
humans in its reproduction cycle. But we need plants and bacteria.
I think that all machines, including houses and garden are alive in
that sense.
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
2010/1/18 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com:
It would be my (naive) assumption, that this is arguably trivial to
do. We can design a program that has a desire to 'live', as desire to
find mates, and otherwise
silky wrote:
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
2010/1/18 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com:
It would be my (naive) assumption, that this is arguably trivial to
do. We can design a program that has a desire to 'live', as desire to
find mates, and
2010/1/19 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com:
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
2010/1/18 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com:
It would be my (naive) assumption, that this is arguably trivial to
do. We can design a program that has a desire to 'live', as
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote:
silky wrote:
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
2010/1/18 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com:
It would be my (naive) assumption, that this is arguably trivial to
do. We
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Stathis Papaioannou
stath...@gmail.com wrote:
2010/1/19 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com:
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
2010/1/18 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com:
It would be my (naive) assumption, that this
silky wrote:
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote:
silky wrote:
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
2010/1/18 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com:
It would be my (naive) assumption, that
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.comwrote:
silky wrote:
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com
wrote:
silky wrote:
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou
stath...@gmail.com
wrote:
2010/1/18 silky
silky wrote:
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Stathis Papaioannou
stath...@gmail.com wrote:
2010/1/19 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com:
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote:
2010/1/18 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com:
It would be my
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.comwrote:
silky wrote:
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Stathis Papaioannou
stath...@gmail.com wrote:
2010/1/19 silky michaelsli...@gmail.com:
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Stathis Papaioannou
stath...@gmail.com
silky wrote:
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com
mailto:meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote:
silky wrote:
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Brent Meeker
meeke...@dslextreme.com mailto:meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote:
silky
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.comwrote:
silky wrote:
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Brent Meeker
meeke...@dslextreme.commailto:
meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote:
silky wrote:
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Brent Meeker
silky wrote:
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com
mailto:meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote:
silky wrote:
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Brent Meeker
meeke...@dslextreme.com mailto:meeke...@dslextreme.com
On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.comwrote:
silky wrote:
[...]
Here we disagree. I don't see (not that I have experience in
AI-programming specifically, mind you) how I can write a program and not
have the results be deterministic. I wrote it; I know,
silky wrote:
I'm not sure if this question is appropriate here, nevertheless, the
most direct way to find out is to ask it :)
Clearly, creating AI on a computer is a goal, and generally we'll try
and implement to the same degree of computationalness as a human.
But what would happen if we
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote:
silky wrote:
I'm not sure if this question is appropriate here, nevertheless, the
most direct way to find out is to ask it :)
Clearly, creating AI on a computer is a goal, and generally we'll try
and implement to
silky wrote:
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Brent Meeker meeke...@dslextreme.com wrote:
silky wrote:
I'm not sure if this question is appropriate here, nevertheless, the
most direct way to find out is to ask it :)
Clearly, creating AI on a computer is a goal, and generally we'll try
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