On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 08:08:26AM -0500, Roger Clough wrote:
> Hi Russell Standish
>
> Thanks. Causality has enormous importance, especially
> if you can differentiate it from correspondence.
>
> I sometimes think that the rise of the stock market is
> causally related to the price of gold.
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 08:46:13AM -0500, Roger Clough wrote:
> Hi Hal,
>
> You seem to be saying that life is a form of, or is related to, energy.
> But one way of defining life is that of all the components in the universe,
> it has the ability to extract energy (or order) from chaos or randomne
On Friday, November 30, 2012 2:08:34 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 10:50 AM, Craig Weinberg
>
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, November 30, 2012 10:32:35 AM UTC-5, yanniru wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Bruno Marchal
>>> wrote:
>>> > Richard,
>>> >
On 11/30/2012 10:44 AM, John Clark wrote:
Now let's do the more usual two-split experiment and put the film back in. The universe
splits just as it did before when it passed the two slits, but when the photon hits the
film and it no longer exists in either universe then the 2 are identical and t
On 11/30/2012 10:02 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
And a transcendent truth could be arithmetic truth or
the truth of necessary logic.
True in logic and formal mathematics is just marker "T" that is preserved by the rules of
inference. In applications it is interpreted as if it were the corresponden
On 11/30/2012 6:05 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
the many faces of truth
I believe that there are many forms of truth,
each form depending on how it is defined.
So I guess I am a nominalist. Or a pragmatist.
Same difference.
Russell's and Aristotle's form of truth would
be "truth by correspondence".
Th
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 10:50 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
>
>
> On Friday, November 30, 2012 10:32:35 AM UTC-5, yanniru wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Bruno Marchal
>> wrote:
>> > Richard,
>> >
>> >
>> > On 28 Nov 2012, at 12:18, Richard Ruquist wrote:
>> >
>> >> Bruno,
>> >> Does an
Hi Stephen P. King
No, we can grasp truth by correspondence.
And a transcendent truth could be arithmetic truth or
the truth of necessary logic.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
11/30/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
- Receiving the following cont
Hi meekerdb
I missed the thought experiment, but IMHO thought is an intentioned
expression of some kind. Intentioned means that there is a living self to
do the intentioning. Then one might think of thinking as a paste board on which
one can paste and manipulate representations of the thoughts
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 Jason Resch wrote:
>> Yes, if Everett is correct then the photon hit every point on that
>> photographic plate, but for every point on the plate there is also a John
>> Clark who, after developing the plate, sees that the photon hit that
>> particular point right there and n
On 11/30/2012 4:42 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Jason Resch
What does physics (and multiple world theory) have to do with
emulating human thinking ? Physics is deterministic, human thought
is not.
That's what Bruno's trying to explain with his thought-experiment. "Comp" implies that if
physics
On 11/30/2012 1:07 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Hume uses that argument
as a basis for his dictum:
"Reason is, and ever ought to be, the slave of passion."
Meaning that one should not kill just because it is logical, etc.
I agree. The heart knows, reason can. But this leads to some problem. In fact
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 Roger Clough wrote:
> >Physics is deterministic,
>
I said it before I'll say it again, it's astonishing how many people expect
to make deep philosophical discoveries while remaining totally ignorant
about what science has accomplished since the year 1900, if not 1800.
>
On 11/30/2012 9:10 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Stephen P. King
Hintakka's concept of truth is what is called "pragmatic truth",
or "scientific truth". It's the same as Peirce's-- namely, what
results when you carry out a particular protocol.
Dear Roger,
Sure, I agree. My point is that such
Leibniz's primitive is the monad or substance, which is non-extended in space.
A complete concept. This would make Leibniz's monad
semantic, semiotic, not merely logical. But not all objects
are monads, only unitary corporeal bodies.
It contains present as well as future properties, so it is time
On Friday, November 30, 2012 10:32:35 AM UTC-5, yanniru wrote:
>
> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Bruno Marchal
> >
> wrote:
> > Richard,
> >
> >
> > On 28 Nov 2012, at 12:18, Richard Ruquist wrote:
> >
> >> Bruno,
> >> Does any or all forms of energy come from arithmetic?
> >
> >
Hi Stephen P. King
"Once upon a time, I, Chuang Chou, dreamt I was a butterfly,
fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly.
I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware that I was Chou.
Soon I awaked, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
> Richard,
>
>
> On 28 Nov 2012, at 12:18, Richard Ruquist wrote:
>
>> Bruno,
>> Does any or all forms of energy come from arithmetic?
>
>
>
> Yes. All forms (in the sense of stable appearances) have to come from
> arithmetic if comp is true a
Richard,
On 28 Nov 2012, at 12:18, Richard Ruquist wrote:
Bruno,
Does any or all forms of energy come from arithmetic?
Yes. All forms (in the sense of stable appearances) have to come from
arithmetic if comp is true and my reasoning correct.
Bruno
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Br
Hi Stephen P. King
Hintakka's concept of truth is what is called "pragmatic truth",
or "scientific truth". It's the same as Peirce's-- namely, what
results when you carry out a particular protocol.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
11/30/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the en
the many faces of truth
I believe that there are many forms of truth,
each form depending on how it is defined.
So I guess I am a nominalist. Or a pragmatist.
Same difference.
Russell's and Aristotle's form of truth would
be "truth by correspondence".
There is also "pragmatic truth", which has
On Friday, November 30, 2012 3:37:35 AM UTC-5, Alberto G.Corona wrote:
>
> This speed in the evaluation is a consequence of evolutionary pressures: A
> teleological agent that is executing a violent plan against us is much more
> dangerous than a casual accident.
Only if there are teleologica
Hi Hal,
You seem to be saying that life is a form of, or is related to, energy.
But one way of defining life is that of all the components in the universe,
it has the ability to extract energy (or order) from chaos or randomness.
Maxwell's Demon is a symbolic representation of that process,
but w
Hi Russell Standish
Thanks. Causality has enormous importance, especially
if you can differentiate it from correspondence.
I sometimes think that the rise of the stock market is
causally related to the price of gold. Or the value of the dollar.
Historical inflation of the value of the dollar
On Nov 30, 2012, at 6:42 AM, "Roger Clough" wrote:
Hi Jason Resch
What does physics (and multiple world theory) have to do with
emulating human thinking ? Physics is deterministic, human thought
is not.
Good question. Below I make the point that the observed laws of
physics are dependen
Hi Jason Resch
What does physics (and multiple world theory) have to do with
emulating human thinking ? Physics is deterministic, human thought
is not.
[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
11/30/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
- Receiving the followi
Hi everything-list
Perhaps Penrose's emphasis of intution, and the noncomputability thereof,
is that intuition is is closely related to meaning, to semantics.
I think that a necessary feature of any machine to emulate human thought
is to be able to understand meaning, the science of which is call
On 29 Nov 2012, at 23:00, John Clark wrote:
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 2:21 PM, Bruno Marchal
wrote:
>> OK, you know more about your homemade word that I do so I defer
to your greater expertise, I don't believe in this thing called
"comp".
> From your reply to Craig, I think that you do. U
On 29 Nov 2012, at 19:54, John Clark wrote:
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 7:51 PM, Jason Resch
wrote:
> The experiment requires that you place yourself in the place of
someone about to be duplicated and ask yourself what you expect to
experience after that duplication.
Various people expect
On 29 Nov 2012, at 19:42, John Clark wrote:
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 meekerdb wrote:
> Bruno (and most people on this "Everything" list) think that the
photon hits in many different places, but these events happen in
different 'worlds' per Hugh Everett's interpretation of QM.
Yes, if Everet
On 29 Nov 2012, at 17:07, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Bruno Marchal
I think of comp as a monitor of what the brain does
physically, objectively, materialistically, such as, at first
glance, produce electrical signals, things a computer
implant could do and in fact do do.
But the brain also operat
This speed in the evaluation is a consequence of evolutionary pressures: A
teleological agent that is executing a violent plan against us is much more
dangerous than a casual accident. because the first will continue harming
us, so a fast reaction against further damage is necessary, while in the
c
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