Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On 03 Dec 2017, at 18:21, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday, December 3, 2017 at 2:07:17 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Dec 2017, at 00:20, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: On Thursday, November 30, 2017 at 11:16:07 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: On Thursday, November 30,

Re: Is AI really a threat to mankind?

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 8:41:39 PM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 12/4/2017 4:24 AM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > Lawrence is taking the long view, that we're destroying our life > > support systems with the obvious implication that we will go extinct. > > The evidence favors this

Re: Dreamless Sleep?

On 12/4/2017 5:16 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: It is the building of the "model/reality", but it makes sense only through some reality, and consciousness is on the side of that reality, which lead to the utter counter-intuitive idea that to get individual coherence, we need a brain making us

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On 12/4/2017 8:34 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 04 Dec 2017, at 04:34, Russell Standish wrote: On Mon, Dec 04, 2017 at 02:11:11PM +1100, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 3/12/2017 9:03 am, Russell Standish wrote: The point being that the uncertainty in the coin's initial position is itself due to the

Re: Dreamless Sleep?

On 12/4/2017 5:07 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 02 Dec 2017, at 04:55, Brent Meeker wrote: On 12/1/2017 6:35 PM, David Nyman wrote: I think it likely that ability in humans co-evolved with the development of language. Did you ever read Julian Jaynes "The Origin of

Re: Is AI really a threat to mankind?

On 12/4/2017 4:24 AM, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: Lawrence is taking the long view, that we're destroying our life support systems with the obvious implication that we will go extinct. The evidence favors this view IMO. AG Predator/prey cycles don't result in extinction of the predator.

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On 5/12/2017 3:34 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 04 Dec 2017, at 04:34, Russell Standish wrote: On Mon, Dec 04, 2017 at 02:11:11PM +1100, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 3/12/2017 9:03 am, Russell Standish wrote: The point being that the uncertainty in the coin's initial position is itself due to the

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 11:26:53AM +1100, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 5/12/2017 3:15 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > I think that is enough to get the macroscopic superposition, as, like I > > explained, you have to take into account not just the quantum > > indeterminacy, + the classical chaos. You

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On 12/4/2017 4:48 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: Do you not understand that one of the enduring mysteries of quantum theory is the emergence of the classical world from the purely quantum substrate? Decoherence goes a long way towards answering the underlying problems, but unless something

Re: Is AI really a threat to mankind?

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 2:41:39 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 12/4/2017 4:24 AM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > Lawrence is taking the long view, that we're destroying our life > > support systems with the obvious implication that we will go extinct. > > The evidence favors this

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 12:26:58 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > On 5/12/2017 3:15 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 01 Dec 2017, at 01:49, Bruce Kellett wrote: > >> On 1/12/2017 8:57 am, Bruce Kellett wrote: > >>> On 1/12/2017 4:21 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 29 Nov 2017, at 23:16,

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On 5/12/2017 3:39 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 04 Dec 2017, at 05:17, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 4/12/2017 2:34 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Mon, Dec 04, 2017 at 02:11:11PM +1100, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 3/12/2017 9:03 am, Russell Standish wrote: The point being that the uncertainty in the

Re: Dreamless Sleep?

On 2 December 2017 at 01:57, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 12/1/2017 5:21 PM, David Nyman wrote: > > On 2 December 2017 at 00:58, Brent Meeker wrote: > >> >> >> On 12/1/2017 4:46 PM, David Nyman wrote: >> >> On 2 December 2017 at 00:06, Brent Meeker

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On 12/4/2017 4:53 PM, Russell Standish wrote: On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 11:26:53AM +1100, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 5/12/2017 3:15 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: I think that is enough to get the macroscopic superposition, as, like I explained, you have to take into account not just the quantum

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On 5/12/2017 11:53 am, Russell Standish wrote: On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 11:26:53AM +1100, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 5/12/2017 3:15 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: I think that is enough to get the macroscopic superposition, as, like I explained, you have to take into account not just the quantum

Re: Dreamless Sleep?

On 12/4/2017 4:59 PM, David Nyman wrote: On 2 December 2017 at 01:57, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 12/1/2017 5:21 PM, David Nyman wrote: On 2 December 2017 at 00:58, Brent Meeker

Re: Is AI really a threat to mankind?

On 12/4/2017 3:12 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 2:41:39 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 12/4/2017 4:24 AM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > Lawrence is taking the long view, that we're destroying our life > support systems with the obvious implication that we

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On 5/12/2017 3:15 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Dec 2017, at 01:49, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 1/12/2017 8:57 am, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 1/12/2017 4:21 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Nov 2017, at 23:16, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 30/11/2017 2:24 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Nov 2017, at 04:59,

Re: Is AI really a threat to mankind?

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 11:19:49 PM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 12/4/2017 3:12 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 2:41:39 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 12/4/2017 4:24 AM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> > Lawrence is taking the long view, that we're

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On 5/12/2017 11:38 am, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 12:26:58 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: On 5/12/2017 3:15 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 01 Dec 2017, at 01:49, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> On 1/12/2017 8:57 am, Bruce Kellett wrote: >>> On 1/12/2017 4:21 am,

Re: Is AI really a threat to mankind?

On 12/4/2017 4:41 PM, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 11:19:49 PM UTC, Brent wrote: On 12/4/2017 3:12 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 2:41:39 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 12/4/2017 4:24 AM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 1:40:25 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 01 Dec 2017, at 22:58, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Thursday, November 30, 2017 at 4:55:46 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 29 Nov 2017, at 22:55, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, November

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 12:50:54 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > On 5/12/2017 11:38 am, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 12:26:58 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >> >> On 5/12/2017 3:15 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> > On 01 Dec 2017, at 01:49, Bruce Kellett wrote: >> >> On

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 3:59:19 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 12:50:54 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >> >> On 5/12/2017 11:38 am, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 12:26:58 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >>> >>> On 5/12/2017 3:15

Re: Is AI really a threat to mankind?

On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 1:00:49 AM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 12/4/2017 4:41 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 11:19:49 PM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 12/4/2017 3:12 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >> >> On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 2:41:39 PM

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On 12/4/2017 7:23 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 5/12/2017 2:03 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 12:18:02PM +1100, Bruce Kellett wrote: Randomness in the sense that I am using it arises in deterministic systems from lack of knowledge of the initial conditions. As in the coin

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 4:47:43 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 3:03:51 AM UTC, Russell Standish wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 12:18:02PM +1100, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On 5/12/2017 11:53 am, Russell Standish wrote: > > > On Tue, Dec 05,

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 3:03:51 AM UTC, Russell Standish wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 12:18:02PM +1100, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On 5/12/2017 11:53 am, Russell Standish wrote: > > > On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 11:26:53AM +1100, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > > > On 5/12/2017 3:15 am,

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On 5/12/2017 4:00 pm, Brent Meeker wrote: On 12/4/2017 7:23 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 5/12/2017 2:03 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 12:18:02PM +1100, Bruce Kellett wrote: Randomness in the sense that I am using it arises in deterministic systems from lack of knowledge

Re: Dreamless Sleep?

On 5 December 2017 at 01:11, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 12/4/2017 4:59 PM, David Nyman wrote: > > On 2 December 2017 at 01:57, Brent Meeker wrote: > >> >> >> On 12/1/2017 5:21 PM, David Nyman wrote: >> >> On 2 December 2017 at 00:58, Brent Meeker

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 12:18:02PM +1100, Bruce Kellett wrote: > On 5/12/2017 11:53 am, Russell Standish wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 11:26:53AM +1100, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > > On 5/12/2017 3:15 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > > I think that is enough to get the macroscopic superposition,

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On 5/12/2017 2:03 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 12:18:02PM +1100, Bruce Kellett wrote: Randomness in the sense that I am using it arises in deterministic systems from lack of knowledge of the initial conditions. As in the coin toss, in general you do not know the initial

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 5:35:37 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > On 5/12/2017 4:00 pm, Brent Meeker wrote: > > On 12/4/2017 7:23 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > >> On 5/12/2017 2:03 pm, Russell Standish wrote: > >>> On Tue, Dec 05, 2017 at 12:18:02PM +1100, Bruce Kellett wrote: > Randomness

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 5:32:22 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 3:59:19 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 12:50:54 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >>> >>> On 5/12/2017 11:38 am, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >>>

Re: Is AI really a threat to mankind?

Hi Jason, Thanks for the quotes, I feel less crazy now! Telmo. On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 6:26 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Telmo Menezes > wrote: >> >> On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 3:33 PM, Jason Resch

Re: Is AI really a threat to mankind?

Hi Bruno, > I have a lot of sympathy for the quote above, as you can guess, which are > all rather close to the "theology of number", but my Lôbian Fear get trigged > by the terming "perfectly benevolent". > > The Lôbian machine can understand intellectually that "she", the ultimate > owner of

Re: Is AI really a threat to mankind?

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 1:29:11 AM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 12/3/2017 5:11 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Sunday, December 3, 2017 at 6:17:18 PM UTC-6, agrays...@gmail.com > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, December 3, 2017 at 7:42:30 PM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>> >>> On

Re: Dreamless Sleep?

On 02 Dec 2017, at 00:48, David Nyman wrote: On 1 December 2017 at 17:45, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Nov 2017, at 01:28, David Nyman wrote: https://www.sciencealert.com/your-consciousness-does-not-switch-off-during-a-dreamless-sleep-say-scientists Wonderful!

Re: After 37 years, Voyager 1 has fired up its trajectory thrusters

> A triumph of U.S. engineering! Indeed. The achievements of NASA and the US space program were a great source of joy and inspiration for me when I was growing up. I am sure I was far from being the only kid feeling this. You should be proud. Telmo. > Brent > > On 12/2/2017 5:51 AM, Telmo

Re: Dreamless Sleep?

On 02 Dec 2017, at 04:55, Brent Meeker wrote: On 12/1/2017 6:35 PM, David Nyman wrote: I think it likely that ability in humans co-evolved with the development of language. Did you ever read Julian Jaynes "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind"? You

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On 01 Dec 2017, at 22:58, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: On Thursday, November 30, 2017 at 4:55:46 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Nov 2017, at 22:55, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, November 29, 2017 at 9:14:48 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, November

Re: Dreamless Sleep?

On 4 December 2017 at 13:16, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 02 Dec 2017, at 00:48, David Nyman wrote: > > On 1 December 2017 at 17:45, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >> On 28 Nov 2017, at 01:28, David Nyman wrote: >> >>

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On 01 Dec 2017, at 01:49, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 1/12/2017 8:57 am, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 1/12/2017 4:21 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Nov 2017, at 23:16, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 30/11/2017 2:24 am, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Nov 2017, at 04:59, Bruce Kellett wrote: I would suggest

Re: Quantum Supremacy

On 03 Dec 2017, at 19:02, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 9:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ​> ​Bitcoin, and digital money, will need quantum encryption. ​There are​ ​quantum encryption​ ​protocols that even a quantum computer couldn't break, they would be as

Re: After 37 years, Voyager 1 has fired up its trajectory thrusters

On 02 Dec 2017, at 14:51, Telmo Menezes wrote: Beautiful: https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/12/after-37-years-voyager-has-fired-up-its-trajectory-thrusters/ Wonderful! Amazing! Bye Solar System! Bruno -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On 03 Dec 2017, at 03:20, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 12:21 AM, wrote: JC> No,​ MMI alleges that everything that can happen does happen, in a universe with 4 spacial dimension Coulombs law would have a function of 1/ r^3​, If string theory is right

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On 04 Dec 2017, at 04:34, Russell Standish wrote: On Mon, Dec 04, 2017 at 02:11:11PM +1100, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 3/12/2017 9:03 am, Russell Standish wrote: The point being that the uncertainty in the coin's initial position is itself due to the amplification of quantum uncertainty by

Re: Consistency of Postulates of QM

On 04 Dec 2017, at 05:17, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 4/12/2017 2:34 pm, Russell Standish wrote: On Mon, Dec 04, 2017 at 02:11:11PM +1100, Bruce Kellett wrote: On 3/12/2017 9:03 am, Russell Standish wrote: The point being that the uncertainty in the coin's initial position is itself due to

Re: Quantum Supremacy

On 03 Dec 2017, at 16:17, Lawrence Crowell wrote: On Sunday, December 3, 2017 at 8:23:42 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: Bitcoin, and digital money, will need quantum encryption. Some of them can be failed, but only in theory. Well, the last time I readon on this, but the filed is