[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate > wrote: > > All the Mulla did was to try out his newly acquired skill. He was > > amazed by the speed at which the suitor rushed from the house. > > > > haha > > Neat! A judge in a village court had gone on vacation. As per the local rules, Nasrudin was asked to be a temporary judge for a day. Nasrudin sat on the Judge's chair with utmost serious face and gazed around the public in audience and ordered that first case be brought-up for hearing. "You are right," said Nasrudin after hearing one side. "You are right," he said after hearing the other side. "But both cannot be right," said a member of public sitting in the audience. "You are right, too" said Nasrudin to the person in public. Interpretations 1. Those that are less than right, often keep to the left. * When everybody thinks they are right, the truth gets left behind. 2. Judge not that ye may not also be judged. 3. Accentuate the positive. 4. Sympathy is as important to a judge as judgement. 5. Don't be afraid to look beyond both sides of an argument. 6. If you can only see two sides of an argument you are missing something. 7. Forgiveness is divine 8. Even judges can be fools 9. Everybody is right, in their own respective ways. 10. Justice is not always just. 11. It is easy to be 'right' from one's own perspective. 12. The person who says that you are 'right' might be wrong. 13. There is only one reality, and there are many interpretations of the reality; like facets on a diamond. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > FWIW, this was originally one of the jokes told by > > > the medieval Muslim sage Nasrudin, in which he > > > frequently featured himself as something of a nitwit. > > > They're actually koan-like teaching stories with several > > > layers of meaning. > > > > Wow! I did not know that. Thank you for pointing him to me. > > > > Mulla Nasrudin by Idries Shah > > COW WITH CALF > > The Mulla went to market to sell his cow, but nobody wanted to buy. > > A neighbour came along and said: > > 'Let me try, you're doing it all wrong.' > > 'I must learn this art,' thought the Mulla. > > 'First-class cow, in calf for five months!' yelled the neighbour. In > next to no time the animal was sold. > > When he arrived home, Nasrudin found that a young man had called to > inquire about marrying his daughter. > > All the Mulla did was to try out his newly acquired skill. He was > amazed by the speed at which the suitor rushed from the house. > > haha Neat! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate > > wrote: > > > > > My favorite all time joke, illustrative of the limits of science is > > > ... 63!!! > > > > > > For those who don'tremember 63, its the one where the drunk is > > > unsuccessfully looking for his car keys under the streetlamp. A > > > passerby asks whats the matter blah blah .. and then asks "well > > > where did you lose your kyes." > > > > > > "Over there said the drunk." > > > > > > "Well why are you looking for them here." > > > > > > The drunk answers, "The lights much better here." > > > > FWIW, this was originally one of the jokes told by > > the medieval Muslim sage Nasrudin, in which he > > frequently featured himself as something of a nitwit. > > They're actually koan-like teaching stories with several > > layers of meaning. > > Wow! I did not know that. Thank you for pointing him to me. It was a real Aha! moment for me after I had gotten into spiritual stuff and was reading some Sufi material to recognize all the Little Moron jokes. > > The stories have gone through a number of incarnations. > > When I was growing up, we told them as jokes and called > > them "Little Moron stories." In your version, Nasrudin > > has become a drunk. > > any links to such? Gave you one below. Just Google Nasrudin, there are tons of sites. > > The Guest of Honor > > > > The dervish Nasrudin > > oh so its Sufi, -- something more specific than muslim Yes and no. As I understand it, Nasrudin was a mystic but not a Sufi in any formal sense; his tales were adopted by the Sufis for their own teaching purposes, so they've become identified with Sufism. -- I love > sufi stories and traditions. Me too! Though I probably blur somethings. > Rumi was Sufi? Yes, I believe he was a Sufi. Some modern Sufis, at least those I've read, seem to be deliberately cryptic about what Sufism is and who is and who ain't a Sufi. Here's the link to the "nobody" story; the page has a couple of other good ones: > > From: > > http://lawnorder.blogspot.com/2005/08/nasrudin-wikibooks.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > FWIW, this was originally one of the jokes told by > > the medieval Muslim sage Nasrudin, in which he > > frequently featured himself as something of a nitwit. > > They're actually koan-like teaching stories with several > > layers of meaning. > > Wow! I did not know that. Thank you for pointing him to me. > Mulla Nasrudin by Idries Shah COW WITH CALF The Mulla went to market to sell his cow, but nobody wanted to buy. A neighbour came along and said: 'Let me try, you're doing it all wrong.' 'I must learn this art,' thought the Mulla. 'First-class cow, in calf for five months!' yelled the neighbour. In next to no time the animal was sold. When he arrived home, Nasrudin found that a young man had called to inquire about marrying his daughter. All the Mulla did was to try out his newly acquired skill. He was amazed by the speed at which the suitor rushed from the house. haha To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate > wrote: > > > My favorite all time joke, illustrative of the limits of science is > > ... 63!!! > > > > For those who don'tremember 63, its the one where the drunk is > > unsuccessfully looking for his car keys under the streetlamp. A > > passerby asks whats the matter blah blah .. and then asks "well > > where did you lose your kyes." > > > > "Over there said the drunk." > > > > "Well why are you looking for them here." > > > > The drunk answers, "The lights much better here." > > FWIW, this was originally one of the jokes told by > the medieval Muslim sage Nasrudin, in which he > frequently featured himself as something of a nitwit. > They're actually koan-like teaching stories with several > layers of meaning. Wow! I did not know that. Thank you for pointing him to me. > The stories have gone through a number of incarnations. > When I was growing up, we told them as jokes and called > them "Little Moron stories." In your version, Nasrudin > has become a drunk. any links to such? > > Some use the light of science to look for stuff where science cannot > > shine. (Nor the sun). > > Very nice use of that story! I've also seen it used > with regard to spiritual seeking. Its what "shot out" the first time I heard it. In era I was at MUI SB. I laughed quite hard. (still laughing, haha) > Here's a neat one: > > The Guest of Honor > > The dervish Nasrudin oh so its Sufi, -- something more specific than muslim -- I love sufi stories and traditions. Though I probably blur somethings. Rumi was Sufi? > entered a formal reception area and seated > himself at the foremost elegant chair. The Chief of the Guard > approached and said: "Sir, those places are reserved for guests of > honor." > > "Oh, I am more than a mere guest," replied Nasrudin confidently. > > "Oh, so are you a diplomat?" > > "Far more than that!" > > "Really? So you are a minister, perhaps?" > > "No, bigger than that too." > > "Oho! So you must be the King himself, sir," said the Chief > sarcastically. > > "Higher than that!" > > "Only Allah is higher than the King!" > > "I am more than that, too!" > > "What?! Are you higher than Allah?! Nobody is higher than Allah!" > > "Now you have it. I am nobody!" said Nasrudin. haha. good one. Reminds me of a favorite story of SSRS. Which I just started to try to retell, but can't do justice to. maybe others can. About series of king's ministers sent to check out saint. Last minister, no ostentatious treatement "just the presence". > From: > http://lawnorder.blogspot.com/2005/08/nasrudin-wikibooks.html > > Here's one I remember from childhood: > > The little moron and a friend are walking down the > railroad tracks. All of a sudden, they come upon a > human leg. > > "That looks like Joe's leg," the friend says. > > "It is Joe's leg!" the little moron says. > > They walk a little farther and find an arm. > > "By gum, that looks like Joe's arm," exlaims the friend. > > "It is Joe's arm!" says the little moron. > > They walk on. Shortly they discover a head. > > "Oh, my God, that looks like Joe's head," says the friend. > > "It is Joe's head!" says the little moron. > > He picks it up by the ears and shakes it, crying, > "Joe, Joe, are you hurt?" haha To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My favorite all time joke, illustrative of the limits of science is > ... 63!!! > > For those who don'tremember 63, its the one where the drunk is > unsuccessfully looking for his car keys under the streetlamp. A > passerby asks whats the matter blah blah .. and then asks "well > where did you lose your kyes." > > "Over there said the drunk." > > "Well why are you looking for them here." > > The drunk answers, "The lights much better here." FWIW, this was originally one of the jokes told by the medieval Muslim sage Nasrudin, in which he frequently featured himself as something of a nitwit. They're actually koan-like teaching stories with several layers of meaning. The stories have gone through a number of incarnations. When I was growing up, we told them as jokes and called them "Little Moron stories." In your version, Nasrudin has become a drunk. > Some use the light of science to look for stuff where science cannot > shine. (Nor the sun). Very nice use of that story! I've also seen it used with regard to spiritual seeking. Here's a neat one: The Guest of Honor The dervish Nasrudin entered a formal reception area and seated himself at the foremost elegant chair. The Chief of the Guard approached and said: "Sir, those places are reserved for guests of honor." "Oh, I am more than a mere guest," replied Nasrudin confidently. "Oh, so are you a diplomat?" "Far more than that!" "Really? So you are a minister, perhaps?" "No, bigger than that too." "Oho! So you must be the King himself, sir," said the Chief sarcastically. "Higher than that!" "Only Allah is higher than the King!" "I am more than that, too!" "What?! Are you higher than Allah?! Nobody is higher than Allah!" "Now you have it. I am nobody!" said Nasrudin. From: http://lawnorder.blogspot.com/2005/08/nasrudin-wikibooks.html Here's one I remember from childhood: The little moron and a friend are walking down the railroad tracks. All of a sudden, they come upon a human leg. "That looks like Joe's leg," the friend says. "It is Joe's leg!" the little moron says. They walk a little farther and find an arm. "By gum, that looks like Joe's arm," exlaims the friend. "It is Joe's arm!" says the little moron. They walk on. Shortly they discover a head. "Oh, my God, that looks like Joe's head," says the friend. "It is Joe's head!" says the little moron. He picks it up by the ears and shakes it, crying, "Joe, Joe, are you hurt?" To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate > wrote: > > > > > > While your conclusiuon does not follow from your illustration,I agree > > with the conclusion. Of course science is not particularly (curently > > at least) relevant to lots of things: beauty, love etc. It can tell us > > some things about cultural and gentic conditioning, perception and its > > traps -- all relevant to love and beauty, but far from comprehensive. > > I don't consult a scientist to figure out if the sunset is beautiful, > > or if I am in love. Or to figure out Love and Beauty's nature. > > > > My favorite all time joke, illustrative of the limits of science is > > ... 63!!! > > > > For those who don'tremember 63, its the one where the drunk is > > unsuccessfully looking for his car keys under the streetlamp. A > > passerby asks whats the matter blah blah .. and then asks "well where > > did you lose your kyes." > > > > "Over there said the drunk." > > > > "Well why are you looking for them here." > > > > The drunk answers, "The lights much better here." > > > > Some use the light of science to look for stuff where science cannot > > shine. (Nor the sun). > > > > Like a guy with a hammer, every problem is a nail. > > > > > And that doesn't make science irrelevant to many realms. It dosn't > make the paranormal true. Much of the paranormal is within the light > of science. Tele-kinetics, Tele-pathy are all quite testable. In a > couple of centuries, no set of studies indicate much validity to such. > Not that they won't some say. But haven't as of yet. > > (And testing tele-kinetics doesn't require some sophisticed not-yet > existing measurement devices. The figgin thing moves or it doesn't. So > far, it has not. > +++ I meant it as a mathmatical anomaly- Pouring twelve cups of coffee out of an eight cup coffee pot is not scientific so I conclude science isn't always a factor even in the rather inflexible realm of mathmatics. Things like that occur and, it's no big deal- just evidence that there are some laws unknown to science which make dismissal of something as not scientific an untenable position. On telepathy- it only has to happen to you once to make a believer of you- dosen't require testing. As with many things, you shouldn't say it isn't because you haven't seen it. N. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > While your conclusiuon does not follow from your illustration,I agree > with the conclusion. Of course science is not particularly (curently > at least) relevant to lots of things: beauty, love etc. It can tell us > some things about cultural and gentic conditioning, perception and its > traps -- all relevant to love and beauty, but far from comprehensive. > I don't consult a scientist to figure out if the sunset is beautiful, > or if I am in love. Or to figure out Love and Beauty's nature. > > My favorite all time joke, illustrative of the limits of science is > ... 63!!! > > For those who don'tremember 63, its the one where the drunk is > unsuccessfully looking for his car keys under the streetlamp. A > passerby asks whats the matter blah blah .. and then asks "well where > did you lose your kyes." > > "Over there said the drunk." > > "Well why are you looking for them here." > > The drunk answers, "The lights much better here." > > Some use the light of science to look for stuff where science cannot > shine. (Nor the sun). > > Like a guy with a hammer, every problem is a nail. > And that doesn't make science irrelevant to many realms. It dosn't make the paranormal true. Much of the paranormal is within the light of science. Tele-kinetics, Tele-pathy are all quite testable. In a couple of centuries, no set of studies indicate much validity to such. Not that they won't some say. But haven't as of yet. (And testing tele-kinetics doesn't require some sophisticed not-yet existing measurement devices. The figgin thing moves or it doesn't. So far, it has not. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate > > > > > > > > Well, maybe I am still missing his point. But he appears to be > saying > > > > that some things that seem "magical", later become scientific > truths. > > > > I don't think Kurtz would argue that. The history of science is that > > > > things unknown become known. At the turn of the century some > prominent > > > > scientists proclaimed "we know everything now". Boy were they in > for a > > > > shock. Radio would have seemed a paranormal pehomenon in 1850. > By 1920 > > > > or so it was normal. Kurtz would not dispute that. It seems to me > > > > that Nelson was implying he would. If not, my mistake. > > > > > > > > However, "that some things that seem "magical", later become > > > > scientific truths" does not imply, as Nelson may be doing, that all > > > > things magical later become scientific truths. Some things are just > > > > bunk, and will always be bunk. > > > > > > > > The Arthur C. Clarke quote is germane -- "Any sufficiently advanced > > > > technology is indistinguishable from magic." However, its > important to > > > > understand that the following corallary is not true "Any magic will > > > > someday be seen as advanced technology." That is lots of paranormal > > > > stuff today is bunk, will always be bunk. And some will become > science > > > > in the future. > > > > > > > +++ Could we say then that some things we see or expierience today > > > will be proven not to have happened oneday because there is no > > > scientific explaination? just curious,, N. > > > > > > I don't follow. Can you give specific examples of what you are > > referring to. > > > snip > +++ I once was at a meeting of three couples where coffee was served. > It was an eight cup coffee pot and each person had at least two > cups. > I conclude that, in some cases, science is irrelevant. N. While I don't see why your riddle is outside the realm of logic (the couples were not independent -- AB BC and CD, thus ABC&D each had two cups). While your conclusiuon does not follow from your illustration,I agree with the conclusion. Of course science is not particularly (curently at least) relevant to lots of things: beauty, love etc. It can tell us some things about cultural and gentic conditioning, perception and its traps -- all relevant to love and beauty, but far from comprehensive. I don't consult a scientist to figure out if the sunset is beautiful, or if I am in love. Or to figure out Love and Beauty's nature. My favorite all time joke, illustrative of the limits of science is ... 63!!! For those who don'tremember 63, its the one where the drunk is unsuccessfully looking for his car keys under the streetlamp. A passerby asks whats the matter blah blah .. and then asks "well where did you lose your kyes." "Over there said the drunk." "Well why are you looking for them here." The drunk answers, "The lights much better here." Some use the light of science to look for stuff where science cannot shine. (Nor the sun). Like a guy with a hammer, every problem is a nail. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate > > > > > > Well, maybe I am still missing his point. But he appears to be saying > > > that some things that seem "magical", later become scientific truths. > > > I don't think Kurtz would argue that. The history of science is that > > > things unknown become known. At the turn of the century some prominent > > > scientists proclaimed "we know everything now". Boy were they in for a > > > shock. Radio would have seemed a paranormal pehomenon in 1850. By 1920 > > > or so it was normal. Kurtz would not dispute that. It seems to me > > > that Nelson was implying he would. If not, my mistake. > > > > > > However, "that some things that seem "magical", later become > > > scientific truths" does not imply, as Nelson may be doing, that all > > > things magical later become scientific truths. Some things are just > > > bunk, and will always be bunk. > > > > > > The Arthur C. Clarke quote is germane -- "Any sufficiently advanced > > > technology is indistinguishable from magic." However, its important to > > > understand that the following corallary is not true "Any magic will > > > someday be seen as advanced technology." That is lots of paranormal > > > stuff today is bunk, will always be bunk. And some will become science > > > in the future. > > > > > +++ Could we say then that some things we see or expierience today > > will be proven not to have happened oneday because there is no > > scientific explaination? just curious,, N. > > > I don't follow. Can you give specific examples of what you are > referring to. > snip +++ I once was at a meeting of three couples where coffee was served. It was an eight cup coffee pot and each person had at least two cups. I conclude that, in some cases, science is irrelevant. N. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate > [...] > > > > > > The Arthur C. Clarke quote is germane -- "Any sufficiently advanced > > > technology is indistinguishable from magic." However, its important to > > > understand that the following corallary is not true "Any magic will > > > someday be seen as advanced technology." That is lots of paranormal > > > stuff today is bunk, will always be bunk. And some will become science > > > in the future. > > > > > +++ Could we say then that some things we see or expierience today > > will be proven not to have happened oneday because there is no > > scientific explaination? just curious,, N. > > > > Here's a set of quotes from scientists that you may find amusing. Some are long-winded > and some are succinct: > > http://www.amasci.com/weird/skepquot.html > +++ A lot of material but, some good points- thanks. N. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate > > [...] > > > > > > > > The Arthur C. Clarke quote is germane -- "Any sufficiently advanced > > > > technology is indistinguishable from magic." However, its > important to > > > > understand that the following corallary is not true "Any magic will > > > > someday be seen as advanced technology." That is lots of paranormal > > > > stuff today is bunk, will always be bunk. And some will become > science > > > > in the future. > > > > > > > +++ Could we say then that some things we see or expierience today > > > will be proven not to have happened oneday because there is no > > > scientific explaination? just curious,, N. > > > > > > > Here's a set of quotes from scientists that you may find amusing. > Some are long-winded > > and some are succinct: > > > > http://www.amasci.com/weird/skepquot.html > > > "The ability to quote is a servicable substitute for wit." > - W. Somerset Maugham > Droll, er, troll To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate > [...] > > > > > > The Arthur C. Clarke quote is germane -- "Any sufficiently advanced > > > technology is indistinguishable from magic." However, its important to > > > understand that the following corallary is not true "Any magic will > > > someday be seen as advanced technology." That is lots of paranormal > > > stuff today is bunk, will always be bunk. And some will become science > > > in the future. > > > > > +++ Could we say then that some things we see or expierience today > > will be proven not to have happened oneday because there is no > > scientific explaination? just curious,, N. > > > > Here's a set of quotes from scientists that you may find amusing. Some are long-winded > and some are succinct: > > http://www.amasci.com/weird/skepquot.html "The ability to quote is a servicable substitute for wit." - W. Somerset Maugham To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate > [...] > > > > > > The Arthur C. Clarke quote is germane -- "Any sufficiently advanced > > > technology is indistinguishable from magic." However, its important to > > > understand that the following corallary is not true "Any magic will > > > someday be seen as advanced technology." That is lots of paranormal > > > stuff today is bunk, will always be bunk. And some will become science > > > in the future. > > > > > +++ Could we say then that some things we see or expierience today > > will be proven not to have happened oneday because there is no > > scientific explaination? just curious,, N. > > > > Here's a set of quotes from scientists that you may find amusing. Some are long-winded > and some are succinct: > > http://www.amasci.com/weird/skepquot.html "All great truths begin as blasphemies." - George Bernard Shaw "And few blasphemies end up as great truths" -- New Morning To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate > > > > Well, maybe I am still missing his point. But he appears to be saying > > that some things that seem "magical", later become scientific truths. > > I don't think Kurtz would argue that. The history of science is that > > things unknown become known. At the turn of the century some prominent > > scientists proclaimed "we know everything now". Boy were they in for a > > shock. Radio would have seemed a paranormal pehomenon in 1850. By 1920 > > or so it was normal. Kurtz would not dispute that. It seems to me > > that Nelson was implying he would. If not, my mistake. > > > > However, "that some things that seem "magical", later become > > scientific truths" does not imply, as Nelson may be doing, that all > > things magical later become scientific truths. Some things are just > > bunk, and will always be bunk. > > > > The Arthur C. Clarke quote is germane -- "Any sufficiently advanced > > technology is indistinguishable from magic." However, its important to > > understand that the following corallary is not true "Any magic will > > someday be seen as advanced technology." That is lots of paranormal > > stuff today is bunk, will always be bunk. And some will become science > > in the future. > > > +++ Could we say then that some things we see or expierience today > will be proven not to have happened oneday because there is no > scientific explaination? just curious,, N. I don't follow. Can you give specific examples of what you are referring to. I would venture that some of our interpretations of what we see or experience today will change in the future, in that sense that interpretation (our current "reality") will change, the old ones will disappear. Pat Robertson's reality on 9/12/01 was that the attack was caused by abortions and homosexual behavior. That is what he "saw and experienced" -- since I doubt he is clear enough to separate his perceptions from his interpretations. I think he as many realize now, and if not -- will more so in the future -- that thats not what happened. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate [...] > > > > The Arthur C. Clarke quote is germane -- "Any sufficiently advanced > > technology is indistinguishable from magic." However, its important to > > understand that the following corallary is not true "Any magic will > > someday be seen as advanced technology." That is lots of paranormal > > stuff today is bunk, will always be bunk. And some will become science > > in the future. > > > +++ Could we say then that some things we see or expierience today > will be proven not to have happened oneday because there is no > scientific explaination? just curious,, N. > Here's a set of quotes from scientists that you may find amusing. Some are long-winded and some are succinct: http://www.amasci.com/weird/skepquot.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > > >+++ Once upon a time, the world was flat. > > > > > > > With the passing of time and more expierience gained, > > > > > > > it has become round. > > > > > > > This author lacks expierience with which the > > paranormal > > > > > > > becomes normal. > > > > > > > > > > Thats pretty funny. And seems to ignore the history of science. > > Are > > > > > you suggesting Kurtz is ignorant of, or denies the history of > > > > science? > > > > > > > > FWIW, I understood him to be saying that Kurtz lacks > > > > experience of the paranormal. > > > > > > ok. I read him to say "This author lacks expierience with which the > > > paranormal BECOMES normal." [caps added] > > > > I would guess that it becomes normal when you have > > lots of it. In other words, Kurtz hasn't had enough > > (if any) for it to become normal for him. > > > > Still not sure what this has to do with your notion > > that he was suggesting Kurtz is ignorant of or denies > > the history of science. > > > > > > > My mistake. :) > > Well, maybe I am still missing his point. But he appears to be saying > that some things that seem "magical", later become scientific truths. > I don't think Kurtz would argue that. The history of science is that > things unknown become known. At the turn of the century some prominent > scientists proclaimed "we know everything now". Boy were they in for a > shock. Radio would have seemed a paranormal pehomenon in 1850. By 1920 > or so it was normal. Kurtz would not dispute that. It seems to me > that Nelson was implying he would. If not, my mistake. > > However, "that some things that seem "magical", later become > scientific truths" does not imply, as Nelson may be doing, that all > things magical later become scientific truths. Some things are just > bunk, and will always be bunk. > > The Arthur C. Clarke quote is germane -- "Any sufficiently advanced > technology is indistinguishable from magic." However, its important to > understand that the following corallary is not true "Any magic will > someday be seen as advanced technology." That is lots of paranormal > stuff today is bunk, will always be bunk. And some will become science > in the future. > +++ Could we say then that some things we see or expierience today will be proven not to have happened oneday because there is no scientific explaination? just curious,, N. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > [...] > > > I believe that all the existing connections are used constantly, > > > > Wow. way different than my sense of things. It would be useful and > > instructive to find what the research actually say. > > > > Perhaps it would be better to say that there is a low-level random noise of firing from all > neurons that gets sent to all connecting neurons. There's a threshhold of noise below which > the receiving neuron doesn't respond, however. "The human brain has a huge number of synapses. Each of 100 billion neurons has on average 7,000 synaptic connections to other neurons. Most authorities estimate that the brain of a three-year-old child has about 1,000 trillion synapses. This number declines with age, stabilizing by adulthood. Estimates vary for an adult, ranging from 100 to 500 trillion synapses. " OK. But thats 1,000 trillion synapses bathing in low-level random noise of firing. Seems kind of wasteful. I am still looking, but I thought I have read that 1) these quadrillion synapes are an average, and some, via genetics and exercising the brain, can have many more. 2) Most people only use and exercise a small portion of the quadrillion synapses. And though Peter finds that there is NO synaptic or other physiologic basis for "spiritual" states, as self-evident, I find it self-evident that there is a synamptic basis for such, much releated to avalable types of neurotransmittors, and that is why patanjali and MMY said transcendant states could be acheived with drugs. In fact if you bath synapes 3,564,678,654,556,486 to 3,784,567,232,734 with alternating dopamine and seretonin neural transmittor baths, while hitting synapes 5,554,638,467,342,584 to 6,123,265,362,274 with somatostatin, while flooding 9,785,767,275,926,756 with Norepinephrine, you will GET IT!! It will be SELF-EVIDENT!!! For short we call that the 3,564,678,654,556,486-3,784,567,232,734/5,554,638,467,342,584-6,123,265,362,274 /9,785,767,275,926,756 cocktail. (But don't drive or operated heavy machinery until you become accustomed to this state.) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > [...] snip > Memory space probably is NEVER an issue in a healthy brain. Ability to ACCESS the > memories is another issue. I was talking about the functioning of the various parts of the > brain, not specific memories or the space they take up. > > Has there been brain imaging done on this guy's brain? Any description online of the > results? >+++ I believe there were a few posts about him here quite a while back and some wheres I saw an article about another person who was similar that could do large number calculations in his head but had the unique ability to explain how the process worked out- something like the big numbers turning into symbols that only had to be matched up. My apologies for not having any links on the subject. N. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > [...] > > I believe that all the existing connections are used constantly, > > Wow. way different than my sense of things. It would be useful and > instructive to find what the research actually say. > Perhaps it would be better to say that there is a low-level random noise of firing from all neurons that gets sent to all connecting neurons. There's a threshhold of noise below which the receiving neuron doesn't respond, however. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hyperbolicgeometry" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Religion & Paranormal > > > > > The Transcendental Temptation: A Critique of Religion and the > > > > > Paranormal > > > > > by Paul Kurtz. Published by Prometheus Books. > > > > > > > > > The first part of the book comprises of a solid explanation and > > > > > defense of both skepticism and the scientific method. There > are, on > > > > > the one hand, people who defend a practical stance towards > > > > > knowledge and belief - people who are usually called empiricists, > > > > > rationalists or skeptics. But on the other hand are people who > are > > > > > not content with mundane reality and who are susceptible to > claims > > > > > about deeper mysteries and truths which require faith for > > > > > acceptance. > > > > > > > > Or which stem from direct personal experience. > > > > > > Which is a middle ground -- "personally empirical". Not yet > > > universally empirical. > > > > > > But personal skepticism is also called for along with personal > > > empiricism. We "experiece", but also interpret that experience. We > > > need to question our interpretations. Is "this" the only possible > > > interpretation of the experience? It appears to me, a lot of > > > interpretations of experiences are based on faith / "scripture" / peer > > > practice / magical thinking, etc. > > > > > > > +++ You stand out in the rain- you get wet- some expieriences have a > > very limited range of interpretation and require little faith. > > Some would rather overlook the obvious and, others don't see what > > they are looking at. N > > But you seemto be leading quite a simple life if it primarily involves > standing in the rain. :) > +++ROFL,, Being simple, I enjoyed that one- thanks. > Do you "experience" the sun rise? I do. Its personally empirical, but > not consitent with what is scietifically empirical. My interpretation > is limited. +++ Science, schmience, I enjoy life on a personal level with it's limitations. Idont understand digestion on the molecular level but make use of it and it adds to enjoying life. Most people use electricity but just about no one really knows what it is- put your finger in a light socket and you will become an instant believer of a theory. > And are you really standing in the rain? And not some primordial > quantum soup? On one level, that IS what is happening. As or more > correct than your interpretation. > > And if "you" is only a construct, "you standing in the rain" is a > weak, if not false interpretation. > > What if you know (primarily) the rain is IT and much as IT is within. > Its then "IT standing -- which is the act of IT -- in IT" > > But my point is that some have an experience and interpret it as > shakti, prana, kundalini, love, fear, pain, Brahman or CC or whatver. > It may be. It may not be. Labels may be irrelevant. But labeling an > experience by some name found in some scripture somewhere smells of a > bit of "faith". If not wishful thinking. > > Some will claim the "self-evident" defense. But as we have recently > discussed, many have claimed things as self-evident when later we see > they were false. The "self-evident" defense seems to me to be a > spiffy "faith-based" defense in many cases. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hugheshugo" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > : > > > > > > > > > > > >> It's one thing to speculate that we use only 10 percent > > > > > of the brain's *potential* (although it's hard to say > > > > > how one would arrive at a specific percentage); but the > > > > > notion that we use only 10 percent of the brain itself > > > > > is simply inaccurate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I read somewhere recently that we only use around 10% of our > > brains at > > > > a time because if every neuron fired at once we would keel over with > > > > shock. The point was we don't use the SAME 10% all the time but vary > > > > it according to what we are doing. > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure about this. My understanding is that neurons are always > > at least a little active, > > > firing-wise. Certainly, if you've ever watched a neuron, they're > > always active, physically. > > > Fred Travis gives the statistic that 70% of the connections of our > > brain change every day. I > > > don't know if the 70% figure is correct, but I think ANY > > reconfiguration of connections is > > > due to the neurons seeking the maximum level of input from the > > surrounding neurons. > > > > > > I've read that only a small portion of all possible neural connections > > are used daily or ever used. What is it 100 billion neurons (ok I > > lokked it up "10 billion - 1 trillion for entire NS). With up to > > 10,000 possible connections per neuron. How many possible states? (You > > do the math). How many do we use. Will ever use? How many does someone > > on Brahaman use? (ONE! haha) > > I believe that all the existing connections are used constantly, Wow. way different than my sense of things. It would be useful and instructive to find what the research actually say. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" > > > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hyperbolicgeometry" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > Religion & Paranormal > > > > > The Transcendental Temptation: A Critique of Religion and the > > > > > Paranormal > > > > > by Paul Kurtz. Published by Prometheus Books. > > > > > Guide Rating - > > > > > > > > > >+++ Once upon a time, the world was flat. > > > > With the passing of time and more expierience gained, > > > > it has become round. > > > > This author lacks expierience with which the paranormal > > > > becomes normal. > > > > Thats pretty funny. And seems to ignore the history of science. Are > > you suggesting Kurtz is ignorant of, or denies the history of science? > > > > +++ NO.. It's more like when science finally figures everything out, > there shouldn't be antything left to be classified as paranormal. N. Thats even funnier if I am understanding what you mean. Do you supppose science and uncovering new knowledge will ever stop? Are you suggesting that ALL things paranormal today will someday be found normal? If so, thats bunk. Some paranormal things today will always be bunk -- even in 10,000 years. Some will become science. But clearly not all paranormal today, or even much of it, IMO, will someday become science in the future. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > [...] > > > On the other hand, he lacks other abilities that > > > average people have. Maybe the brain has "room" > > > for only so many abilities, and average people have > > > more abilities but each ability is allotted a smaller > > > portion of the brain's capacity, compared to the > > > larger portions of Peake's brain allotted to each of > > > his smaller number of abilities? > > > > > > Did that make any sense?? It's sort of like a > > > library with a limited amount of shelf space. It > > > can have books on a wide range of books, with only > > > a few on each topic; or it can specialize in only > > > a few topics and have lots of books on each. > > > > > > > It's more like the brain is a network of computers dedicated to > specific tasks. While any > > arbitrary computer might be able to take over some part of the tasks > of an adjacent > > computer, the most efficient way to go is to use the dedicated unit. > If a given unit is really > > large, it can do its task really well, but there's only so much > physical space available in > > your head, so if there's a larger-than-average unit there, there's > bound to be one or more > > smaller-than-average units also, and if they're too small, they > can't do their assigned task > > very well. If they don't exist, some other unit has to take over, > with drastically reduced > > efficiency. > > > +++ That looks like a good analogy but I would wonder if a person who > continues to be able to memorize books and supposedly doesn't have a > seperation of brain hemispheres would be likely to run out of space. > I would be willing to bet he has more available space on his hard > drive than your Mac quad core. N. > Memory space probably is NEVER an issue in a healthy brain. Ability to ACCESS the memories is another issue. I was talking about the functioning of the various parts of the brain, not specific memories or the space they take up. Has there been brain imaging done on this guy's brain? Any description online of the results? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > >+++ Once upon a time, the world was flat. > > > > > > With the passing of time and more expierience gained, > > > > > > it has become round. > > > > > > This author lacks expierience with which the > paranormal > > > > > > becomes normal. > > > > > > > > Thats pretty funny. And seems to ignore the history of science. > Are > > > > you suggesting Kurtz is ignorant of, or denies the history of > > > science? > > > > > > FWIW, I understood him to be saying that Kurtz lacks > > > experience of the paranormal. > > > > ok. I read him to say "This author lacks expierience with which the > > paranormal BECOMES normal." [caps added] > > I would guess that it becomes normal when you have > lots of it. In other words, Kurtz hasn't had enough > (if any) for it to become normal for him. > > Still not sure what this has to do with your notion > that he was suggesting Kurtz is ignorant of or denies > the history of science. > > > > My mistake. :) Well, maybe I am still missing his point. But he appears to be saying that some things that seem "magical", later become scientific truths. I don't think Kurtz would argue that. The history of science is that things unknown become known. At the turn of the century some prominent scientists proclaimed "we know everything now". Boy were they in for a shock. Radio would have seemed a paranormal pehomenon in 1850. By 1920 or so it was normal. Kurtz would not dispute that. It seems to me that Nelson was implying he would. If not, my mistake. However, "that some things that seem "magical", later become scientific truths" does not imply, as Nelson may be doing, that all things magical later become scientific truths. Some things are just bunk, and will always be bunk. The Arthur C. Clarke quote is germane -- "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." However, its important to understand that the following corallary is not true "Any magic will someday be seen as advanced technology." That is lots of paranormal stuff today is bunk, will always be bunk. And some will become science in the future. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate [...] > > Thats pretty funny. And seems to ignore the history of science. Are > > you suggesting Kurtz is ignorant of, or denies the history of science? > > > > +++ NO.. It's more like when science finally figures everything out, > there shouldn't be antything left to be classified as paranormal. N. > One assumption scientists often make is that they CAN figure everything out. One of the tenants of Science is that they can't be sure if they have or not. It's one of those interesting contradictions: in order to be willing to work as a scientist, you gotta believe that you can figure things out, even though you KNOW it may not be so. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hugheshugo" > wrote: > > > > > > : > > > > > > > > > >> It's one thing to speculate that we use only 10 percent > > > > of the brain's *potential* (although it's hard to say > > > > how one would arrive at a specific percentage); but the > > > > notion that we use only 10 percent of the brain itself > > > > is simply inaccurate. > > > > > > > > > > I read somewhere recently that we only use around 10% of our > brains at > > > a time because if every neuron fired at once we would keel over with > > > shock. The point was we don't use the SAME 10% all the time but vary > > > it according to what we are doing. > > > > > > > I'm not sure about this. My understanding is that neurons are always > at least a little active, > > firing-wise. Certainly, if you've ever watched a neuron, they're > always active, physically. > > Fred Travis gives the statistic that 70% of the connections of our > brain change every day. I > > don't know if the 70% figure is correct, but I think ANY > reconfiguration of connections is > > due to the neurons seeking the maximum level of input from the > surrounding neurons. > > > I've read that only a small portion of all possible neural connections > are used daily or ever used. What is it 100 billion neurons (ok I > lokked it up "10 billion - 1 trillion for entire NS). With up to > 10,000 possible connections per neuron. How many possible states? (You > do the math). How many do we use. Will ever use? How many does someone > on Brahaman use? (ONE! haha) I believe that all the existing connections are used constantly, but the least-used tend to get pruned. The most used tend to become major branches. Major branches can get pruned eventually, and even the most tenuous thread can become a major branch. Someone in Brahman probably has a higher-than-average baseline activity level for all connections. A well-defined cosmic hum of neural activity that includes portions of the brain that aren't activated very much by simple TM practice, e.g., perceptual areas. > > interesting simple site on brain > http://www.dana.org/pdf/brainweek/mindboggle.pdf > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hyperbolicgeometry" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Religion & Paranormal > > > > The Transcendental Temptation: A Critique of Religion and the > > > > Paranormal > > > > by Paul Kurtz. Published by Prometheus Books. > > > > > > > The first part of the book comprises of a solid explanation and > > > > defense of both skepticism and the scientific method. There are, on > > > > the one hand, people who defend a practical stance towards > > > > knowledge and belief - people who are usually called empiricists, > > > > rationalists or skeptics. But on the other hand are people who are > > > > not content with mundane reality and who are susceptible to claims > > > > about deeper mysteries and truths which require faith for > > > > acceptance. > > > > > > Or which stem from direct personal experience. > > > > Which is a middle ground -- "personally empirical". Not yet > > universally empirical. > > > > But personal skepticism is also called for along with personal > > empiricism. We "experiece", but also interpret that experience. We > > need to question our interpretations. Is "this" the only possible > > interpretation of the experience? It appears to me, a lot of > > interpretations of experiences are based on faith / "scripture" / peer > > practice / magical thinking, etc. > > > > +++ You stand out in the rain- you get wet- some expieriences have a > very limited range of interpretation and require little faith. > Some would rather overlook the obvious and, others don't see what > they are looking at. N But you seemto be leading quite a simple life if it primarily involves standing in the rain. :) Do you "experience" the sun rise? I do. Its personally empirical, but not consitent with what is scietifically empirical. My interpretation is limited. And are you really standing in the rain? And not some primordial quantum soup? On one level, that IS what is happening. As or more correct than your interpretation. And if "you" is only a construct, "you standing in the rain" is a weak, if not false interpretation. What if you know (primarily) the rain is IT and much as IT is within. Its then "IT standing -- which is the act of IT -- in IT" But my point is that some have an experience and interpret it as shakti, prana, kundalini, love, fear, pain, Brahman or CC or whatver. It may be. It may not be. Labels may be irrelevant. But labeling an experience by some name found in some scripture somewhere smells of a bit of "faith". If not wishful thinking. Some will claim the "self-evident" defense. But as we have recently discussed, many have claimed things as self-evident when later we see they were false. The "self-evident" defense seems to me to be a spiffy "faith-based" defense in many cases. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > [...] > > On the other hand, he lacks other abilities that > > average people have. Maybe the brain has "room" > > for only so many abilities, and average people have > > more abilities but each ability is allotted a smaller > > portion of the brain's capacity, compared to the > > larger portions of Peake's brain allotted to each of > > his smaller number of abilities? > > > > Did that make any sense?? It's sort of like a > > library with a limited amount of shelf space. It > > can have books on a wide range of books, with only > > a few on each topic; or it can specialize in only > > a few topics and have lots of books on each. > > > > It's more like the brain is a network of computers dedicated to specific tasks. While any > arbitrary computer might be able to take over some part of the tasks of an adjacent > computer, the most efficient way to go is to use the dedicated unit. If a given unit is really > large, it can do its task really well, but there's only so much physical space available in > your head, so if there's a larger-than-average unit there, there's bound to be one or more > smaller-than-average units also, and if they're too small, they can't do their assigned task > very well. If they don't exist, some other unit has to take over, with drastically reduced > efficiency. > +++ That looks like a good analogy but I would wonder if a person who continues to be able to memorize books and supposedly doesn't have a seperation of brain hemispheres would be likely to run out of space. I would be willing to bet he has more available space on his hard drive than your Mac quad core. N. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" > > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hyperbolicgeometry" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- > > > > Religion & Paranormal > > > > The Transcendental Temptation: A Critique of Religion and the > > > > Paranormal > > > > by Paul Kurtz. Published by Prometheus Books. > > > > Guide Rating - > > > > > > > >+++ Once upon a time, the world was flat. > > > With the passing of time and more expierience gained, > > > it has become round. > > > This author lacks expierience with which the paranormal > > > becomes normal. > > Thats pretty funny. And seems to ignore the history of science. Are > you suggesting Kurtz is ignorant of, or denies the history of science? > the sTARBABY article suggests that he has been trapped in hubris before. Of course, another article (CRYBABY) claims that the author of sTarbaby was the one trapped in hubris. http://www.freeinquiry.com/skeptic/resources/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" > > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hyperbolicgeometry" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- > > > > Religion & Paranormal > > > > The Transcendental Temptation: A Critique of Religion and the > > > > Paranormal > > > > by Paul Kurtz. Published by Prometheus Books. > > > > Guide Rating - > > > > > > > >+++ Once upon a time, the world was flat. > > > With the passing of time and more expierience gained, > > > it has become round. > > > This author lacks expierience with which the paranormal > > > becomes normal. > > Thats pretty funny. And seems to ignore the history of science. Are > you suggesting Kurtz is ignorant of, or denies the history of science? > +++ NO.. It's more like when science finally figures everything out, there shouldn't be antything left to be classified as paranormal. N. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" > > > > wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hyperbolicgeometry" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > Religion & Paranormal > > > > > > The Transcendental Temptation: A Critique of Religion and the > > > > > > Paranormal > > > > > > by Paul Kurtz. Published by Prometheus Books. > > > > > > Guide Rating - > > > > > > > > > > > >+++ Once upon a time, the world was flat. > > > > > With the passing of time and more expierience gained, > > > > > it has become round. > > > > > This author lacks expierience with which the paranormal > > > > > becomes normal. > > > > > > Thats pretty funny. And seems to ignore the history of science. Are > > > you suggesting Kurtz is ignorant of, or denies the history of > > science? > > > > FWIW, I understood him to be saying that Kurtz lacks > > experience of the paranormal. > > ok. I read him to say "This author lacks expierience with which the > paranormal BECOMES normal." [caps added] I would guess that it becomes normal when you have lots of it. In other words, Kurtz hasn't had enough (if any) for it to become normal for him. Still not sure what this has to do with your notion that he was suggesting Kurtz is ignorant of or denies the history of science. > > My mistake. :) > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hugheshugo" wrote: > > > > : > > > > > > > >> It's one thing to speculate that we use only 10 percent > > > of the brain's *potential* (although it's hard to say > > > how one would arrive at a specific percentage); but the > > > notion that we use only 10 percent of the brain itself > > > is simply inaccurate. > > > > > > > I read somewhere recently that we only use around 10% of our brains at > > a time because if every neuron fired at once we would keel over with > > shock. The point was we don't use the SAME 10% all the time but vary > > it according to what we are doing. > > > > I'm not sure about this. My understanding is that neurons are always at least a little active, > firing-wise. Certainly, if you've ever watched a neuron, they're always active, physically. > Fred Travis gives the statistic that 70% of the connections of our brain change every day. I > don't know if the 70% figure is correct, but I think ANY reconfiguration of connections is > due to the neurons seeking the maximum level of input from the surrounding neurons. I've read that only a small portion of all possible neural connections are used daily or ever used. What is it 100 billion neurons (ok I lokked it up "10 billion - 1 trillion for entire NS). With up to 10,000 possible connections per neuron. How many possible states? (You do the math). How many do we use. Will ever use? How many does someone on Brahaman use? (ONE! haha) interesting simple site on brain http://www.dana.org/pdf/brainweek/mindboggle.pdf To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] > > > +++ Interesting article. Maybe integrated hemisphere functioning > would be the better term. > I was thinking of Mr. Peake (sp) (the Rain man) who still > continues to absorb knowledge and be able to recall it. > His ability to memorize large numbers of books would indicate > some brain function that is not generaly in use by the average person. > I have some problem remembering more than a few phone numbers and > this guy looks like he has more than a terrabite memory. > I definitely don't have ten percent of this kind of memory- maybe > I am getting bit of "old timers syndrome" N. > My recollection is that people who show some radically gifted ability often have relatively large brain structures associated with that ability, generally at the expense of OTHER brain structures, which are often drastically smaller than average or even non-existent. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] > On the other hand, he lacks other abilities that > average people have. Maybe the brain has "room" > for only so many abilities, and average people have > more abilities but each ability is allotted a smaller > portion of the brain's capacity, compared to the > larger portions of Peake's brain allotted to each of > his smaller number of abilities? > > Did that make any sense?? It's sort of like a > library with a limited amount of shelf space. It > can have books on a wide range of books, with only > a few on each topic; or it can specialize in only > a few topics and have lots of books on each. > It's more like the brain is a network of computers dedicated to specific tasks. While any arbitrary computer might be able to take over some part of the tasks of an adjacent computer, the most efficient way to go is to use the dedicated unit. If a given unit is really large, it can do its task really well, but there's only so much physical space available in your head, so if there's a larger-than-average unit there, there's bound to be one or more smaller-than-average units also, and if they're too small, they can't do their assigned task very well. If they don't exist, some other unit has to take over, with drastically reduced efficiency. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hyperbolicgeometry" > > wrote: > > > > > > Religion & Paranormal > > > The Transcendental Temptation: A Critique of Religion and the > > > Paranormal > > > by Paul Kurtz. Published by Prometheus Books. > > > > > The first part of the book comprises of a solid explanation and > > > defense of both skepticism and the scientific method. There are, on > > > the one hand, people who defend a practical stance towards > > > knowledge and belief - people who are usually called empiricists, > > > rationalists or skeptics. But on the other hand are people who are > > > not content with mundane reality and who are susceptible to claims > > > about deeper mysteries and truths which require faith for > > > acceptance. > > > > Or which stem from direct personal experience. > > Which is a middle ground -- "personally empirical". Not yet > universally empirical. > > But personal skepticism is also called for along with personal > empiricism. We "experiece", but also interpret that experience. We > need to question our interpretations. Is "this" the only possible > interpretation of the experience? It appears to me, a lot of > interpretations of experiences are based on faith / "scripture" / peer > practice / magical thinking, etc. > +++ You stand out in the rain- you get wet- some expieriences have a very limited range of interpretation and require little faith. Some would rather overlook the obvious and, others don't see what they are looking at. N To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hugheshugo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > : > > > > > >> It's one thing to speculate that we use only 10 percent > > of the brain's *potential* (although it's hard to say > > how one would arrive at a specific percentage); but the > > notion that we use only 10 percent of the brain itself > > is simply inaccurate. > > > > I read somewhere recently that we only use around 10% of our brains at > a time because if every neuron fired at once we would keel over with > shock. The point was we don't use the SAME 10% all the time but vary > it according to what we are doing. > I'm not sure about this. My understanding is that neurons are always at least a little active, firing-wise. Certainly, if you've ever watched a neuron, they're always active, physically. Fred Travis gives the statistic that 70% of the connections of our brain change every day. I don't know if the 70% figure is correct, but I think ANY reconfiguration of connections is due to the neurons seeking the maximum level of input from the surrounding neurons. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" > > > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hyperbolicgeometry" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > Religion & Paranormal > > > > > The Transcendental Temptation: A Critique of Religion and the > > > > > Paranormal > > > > > by Paul Kurtz. Published by Prometheus Books. > > > > > Guide Rating - > > > > > > > > > >+++ Once upon a time, the world was flat. > > > > With the passing of time and more expierience gained, > > > > it has become round. > > > > This author lacks expierience with which the paranormal > > > > becomes normal. > > > > Thats pretty funny. And seems to ignore the history of science. Are > > you suggesting Kurtz is ignorant of, or denies the history of > science? > > FWIW, I understood him to be saying that Kurtz lacks > experience of the paranormal. ok. I read him to say "This author lacks expierience with which the paranormal BECOMES normal." [caps added] My mistake. :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote > > > > > > ...to the extent that this is "generally agreed," it's > > > agreed on the basis of a misunderstanding of the findings > > > of early EEG research. See this article from Scientific > > > American: > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/4pp8h > > > > > > > > > > > +++ Interesting article. Maybe integrated hemisphere functioning > > would be the better term. > > I was thinking of Mr. Peake (sp) (the Rain man) who still > > continues to absorb knowledge and be able to recall it. > > His ability to memorize large numbers of books would indicate > > some brain function that is not generaly in use by the average > > person. > > On the other hand, he lacks other abilities that > average people have. Maybe the brain has "room" > for only so many abilities, and average people have > more abilities but each ability is allotted a smaller > portion of the brain's capacity, compared to the > larger portions of Peake's brain allotted to each of > his smaller number of abilities? > > Did that make any sense?? It's sort of like a > library with a limited amount of shelf space. It > can have books on a wide range of books, with only > a few on each topic; or it can specialize in only > a few topics and have lots of books on each. > +++ That seems logical as in specialization but also, in a recent story on him, it said he had gotten used to public speaking and was absorbing more knowledge in different fields. > > I have some problem remembering more than a few phone numbers > > and this guy looks like he has more than a terrabite memory. > > I definitely don't have ten percent of this kind of memory- > > We're all heading in that direction... > > Lately I've consoled myself with the thought that the > older one gets, the more memories one has, and the > brain has a harder time fitting in new stuff that > comes along on the fly. The memory begins to get > fragmented, like a hard disk, so it's harder to > access what you want to remember. And sometimes > the brain can't find a space for the item before > it falls out of short-term memory and is lost. > + that must be it- my memory needs to be de-figmented. N. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" > > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hyperbolicgeometry" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- > > > > Religion & Paranormal > > > > The Transcendental Temptation: A Critique of Religion and the > > > > Paranormal > > > > by Paul Kurtz. Published by Prometheus Books. > > > > Guide Rating - > > > > > > > >+++ Once upon a time, the world was flat. > > > With the passing of time and more expierience gained, > > > it has become round. > > > This author lacks expierience with which the paranormal > > > becomes normal. > > Thats pretty funny. And seems to ignore the history of science. Are > you suggesting Kurtz is ignorant of, or denies the history of science? FWIW, I understood him to be saying that Kurtz lacks experience of the paranormal. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new_morning_blank_slate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hyperbolicgeometry" > > wrote: > > > > > > Religion & Paranormal > > > The Transcendental Temptation: A Critique of Religion and the > > > Paranormal > > > by Paul Kurtz. Published by Prometheus Books. > > > > > The first part of the book comprises of a solid explanation and > > > defense of both skepticism and the scientific method. There are, on > > > the one hand, people who defend a practical stance towards > > > knowledge and belief - people who are usually called empiricists, > > > rationalists or skeptics. But on the other hand are people who are > > > not content with mundane reality and who are susceptible to claims > > > about deeper mysteries and truths which require faith for > > > acceptance. > > > > Or which stem from direct personal experience. > > Which is a middle ground -- "personally empirical". Not yet > universally empirical. But quite distinct from mere faith. > But personal skepticism is also called for along with personal > empiricism. We "experiece", but also interpret that experience. We > need to question our interpretations. Is "this" the only possible > interpretation of the experience? It appears to me, a lot of > interpretations of experiences are based on faith / "scripture" / > peer practice / magical thinking, etc. Oh, unquestionably. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hyperbolicgeometry" > > wrote: > > > > > > --- > > > Religion & Paranormal > > > The Transcendental Temptation: A Critique of Religion and the > > > Paranormal > > > by Paul Kurtz. Published by Prometheus Books. > > > Guide Rating - > > > > > >+++ Once upon a time, the world was flat. > > With the passing of time and more expierience gained, > > it has become round. > > This author lacks expierience with which the paranormal > > becomes normal. Thats pretty funny. And seems to ignore the history of science. Are you suggesting Kurtz is ignorant of, or denies the history of science? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hyperbolicgeometry" > wrote: > > > > Religion & Paranormal > > The Transcendental Temptation: A Critique of Religion and the > > Paranormal > > by Paul Kurtz. Published by Prometheus Books. > > > The first part of the book comprises of a solid explanation and > > defense of both skepticism and the scientific method. There are, on > > the one hand, people who defend a practical stance towards > > knowledge and belief - people who are usually called empiricists, > > rationalists or skeptics. But on the other hand are people who are > > not content with mundane reality and who are susceptible to claims > > about deeper mysteries and truths which require faith for > > acceptance. > > Or which stem from direct personal experience. Which is a middle ground -- "personally empirical". Not yet universally empirical. But personal skepticism is also called for along with personal empiricism. We "experiece", but also interpret that experience. We need to question our interpretations. Is "this" the only possible interpretation of the experience? It appears to me, a lot of interpretations of experiences are based on faith / "scripture" / peer practice / magical thinking, etc. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hyperbolicgeometry" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Religion & Paranormal > > > > The Transcendental Temptation: A Critique of Religion and the > > > > Paranormal > > > > by Paul Kurtz. Published by Prometheus Books. > > > > Guide Rating - > > > > > > > >+++ Once upon a time, the world was flat. > > > With the passing of time and more expierience gained, it has > > > become round. > > > This author lacks expierience with which the paranormal becomes > > > normal. > > > > Indeed. However... > > > > > Isn't it generally agreed that people are using ten to fifteen > > > percent of their brain but now we have someone saying that this or > > > that expierience is not possible. > > > > ...to the extent that this is "generally agreed," it's > > agreed on the basis of a misunderstanding of the findings > > of early EEG research. See this article from Scientific > > American: > > > > http://tinyurl.com/4pp8h > > > > It's one thing to speculate that we use only 10 percent > > of the brain's *potential* (although it's hard to say > > how one would arrive at a specific percentage); but the > > notion that we use only 10 percent of the brain itself > > is simply inaccurate. > > > > > > > +++ Interesting article. Maybe integrated hemisphere functioning > would be the better term. > I was thinking of Mr. Peake (sp) (the Rain man) who still > continues to absorb knowledge and be able to recall it. > His ability to memorize large numbers of books would indicate > some brain function that is not generaly in use by the average > person. On the other hand, he lacks other abilities that average people have. Maybe the brain has "room" for only so many abilities, and average people have more abilities but each ability is allotted a smaller portion of the brain's capacity, compared to the larger portions of Peake's brain allotted to each of his smaller number of abilities? Did that make any sense?? It's sort of like a library with a limited amount of shelf space. It can have books on a wide range of books, with only a few on each topic; or it can specialize in only a few topics and have lots of books on each. > I have some problem remembering more than a few phone numbers > and this guy looks like he has more than a terrabite memory. > I definitely don't have ten percent of this kind of memory- > maybe I am getting bit of "old timers syndrome" N. We're all heading in that direction... Lately I've consoled myself with the thought that the older one gets, the more memories one has, and the brain has a harder time fitting in new stuff that comes along on the fly. The memory begins to get fragmented, like a hard disk, so it's harder to access what you want to remember. And sometimes the brain can't find a space for the item before it falls out of short-term memory and is lost. As I get older, I more often find myself unable to bring to mind names I know well when I want to cite them. But if I stop searching my memory consciously and think about something else, most of the time the name pops up after a few minutes. It's as if there's a subconscious search mode that continues until it finds the memory fragment tucked away in a far corner somewhere. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hyperbolicgeometry" > > wrote: > > > > > > Religion & Paranormal > > > The Transcendental Temptation: A Critique of Religion and the > > > Paranormal > > > by Paul Kurtz. Published by Prometheus Books. > > > Guide Rating - > > > > > >+++ Once upon a time, the world was flat. > > With the passing of time and more expierience gained, it has > > become round. > > This author lacks expierience with which the paranormal becomes > > normal. > > Indeed. However... > > > Isn't it generally agreed that people are using ten to fifteen > > percent of their brain but now we have someone saying that this or > > that expierience is not possible. > > ...to the extent that this is "generally agreed," it's > agreed on the basis of a misunderstanding of the findings > of early EEG research. See this article from Scientific > American: > > http://tinyurl.com/4pp8h > > It's one thing to speculate that we use only 10 percent > of the brain's *potential* (although it's hard to say > how one would arrive at a specific percentage); but the > notion that we use only 10 percent of the brain itself > is simply inaccurate. > > > +++ Interesting article. Maybe integrated hemisphere functioning would be the better term. I was thinking of Mr. Peake (sp) (the Rain man) who still continues to absorb knowledge and be able to recall it. His ability to memorize large numbers of books would indicate some brain function that is not generaly in use by the average person. I have some problem remembering more than a few phone numbers and this guy looks like he has more than a terrabite memory. I definitely don't have ten percent of this kind of memory- maybe I am getting bit of "old timers syndrome" N. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
: > > > >> It's one thing to speculate that we use only 10 percent > of the brain's *potential* (although it's hard to say > how one would arrive at a specific percentage); but the > notion that we use only 10 percent of the brain itself > is simply inaccurate. > I read somewhere recently that we only use around 10% of our brains at a time because if every neuron fired at once we would keel over with shock. The point was we don't use the SAME 10% all the time but vary it according to what we are doing. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hyperbolicgeometry" > wrote: > > > > Religion & Paranormal > > The Transcendental Temptation: A Critique of Religion and the > > Paranormal > > by Paul Kurtz. Published by Prometheus Books. > > Guide Rating - > > > >+++ Once upon a time, the world was flat. > With the passing of time and more expierience gained, it has > become round. > This author lacks expierience with which the paranormal becomes > normal. Indeed. However... > Isn't it generally agreed that people are using ten to fifteen > percent of their brain but now we have someone saying that this or > that expierience is not possible. ...to the extent that this is "generally agreed," it's agreed on the basis of a misunderstanding of the findings of early EEG research. See this article from Scientific American: http://tinyurl.com/4pp8h It's one thing to speculate that we use only 10 percent of the brain's *potential* (although it's hard to say how one would arrive at a specific percentage); but the notion that we use only 10 percent of the brain itself is simply inaccurate. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hyperbolicgeometry" > wrote: > > > > --- > > Religion & Paranormal > > The Transcendental Temptation: A Critique of Religion and the > > Paranormal > > by Paul Kurtz. Published by Prometheus Books. > > Guide Rating - > > > >+++ Once upon a time, the world was flat. > With the passing of time and more expierience gained, > it has become round. > This author lacks expierience with which the paranormal > becomes normal. Well said. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hyperbolicgeometry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Religion & Paranormal > The Transcendental Temptation: A Critique of Religion and the > Paranormal > by Paul Kurtz. Published by Prometheus Books. > The first part of the book comprises of a solid explanation and > defense of both skepticism and the scientific method. There are, on > the one hand, people who defend a practical stance towards > knowledge and belief - people who are usually called empiricists, > rationalists or skeptics. But on the other hand are people who are > not content with mundane reality and who are susceptible to claims > about deeper mysteries and truths which require faith for > acceptance. Or which stem from direct personal experience. > This magical thinking is certainly irrational, in that it > deliberately bases conclusions upon a clear lack of demonstrable > evidence and without regard for logical coherence or consistency. > It is also anti-scientific because methodologically, science seeks > knowable, testable and repeatable explanations for events. Science > does not get involved with ad hoc pseudoexplanations which cannot > be tested or understood in by any coherent means. There's a long and fascinating article here-- http://cura.free.fr/xv/14starbb.html --documenting the tendency of CSICOP (the skeptics' organization co-founded by Kurtz and the writer of the article, Dennis Rawlins) to deal with evidence "without regard for logical coherence or consistency," or even integrity. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Critique of "The Transcendental Temptation"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hyperbolicgeometry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- > > > > Religion & Paranormal > The Transcendental Temptation: A Critique of Religion and the > Paranormal > by Paul Kurtz. Published by Prometheus Books. > Guide Rating - > >+++ Once upon a time, the world was flat. With the passing of time and more expierience gained, it has become round. This author lacks expierience with which the paranormal becomes normal. Isn't it generally agreed that people are using ten to fifteen percent of their brain but now we have someone saying that this or that expierience is not possible. I have a more optimistic view of the benefits of integrated brain functioning even tho it is only a theory. N. > > > > > Is there some basic connection between religious beliefs and > paranormal beliefs? Some commonality which helps explain not only > their similarities, but also why they have been so appealing to so > many people throughout human history? Although there are many books > which offer critiques of either religion or the paranormal, few are > willing to do both, probably because people who are skeptical of one > aren't necessarily skeptical of the other. > > But Paul Kurtz is willing to create such a unified critique, and his > book The Transcendental Temptation is the result of his efforts. In > it, he argues that there are some striking similarities between > religion and the paranormal which can account for their natures and > their popularity. > > The first part of the book comprises of a solid explanation and > defense of both skepticism and the scientific method. There are, on > the one hand, people who defend a practical stance towards knowledge > and belief - people who are usually called empiricists, rationalists > or skeptics. But on the other hand are people who are not content > with mundane reality and who are susceptible to claims about deeper > mysteries and truths which require faith for acceptance. > > Being a skeptic does not mean disclaiming any access to knowledge in > the world - it is possible to form rational beliefs based upon the > use of reason and logic. Faith, however, is the antithesis of both > reason and logic. Following a lengthy critique of faith-based > religious and paranormal beliefs, including Jesus and other prophets, > UFOs, ESP and more, Kurtz examines one of the primary causes of > people accepting such faith: what he calls the "transcendental > temptation." > > The basis for this temptation is "magical thinking" - the belief that > people or events are "magical," in that they have access to an unseen > and hidden realm of power which lies behind our visible world but > which can nevertheless be tapped into and used to affect our lives. > People tend to associate such thinking with primitive cultures, but > it continues even today and early scholars of religion, like Sir > James G. Frazer, identified magical thinking as constituting the core > of religion. > > Magical thinking, whether involved with supernatural or paranormal > beliefs, requires two preconditions. The first is an actual ignorance > of the natural causes of events in question, and the second is the > assumption that, in the absence of an obvious natural cause, there > must be an unknown and un-natural cause. > > These two factors in conjunction allow for the development of ad hoc > explanations, often relying upon an assumption that correlation > demonstrates causation. For example, praying just before something > good happens leads one to the belief that the positive event was > caused by the prayer. > > This magical thinking is certainly irrational, in that it > deliberately bases conclusions upon a clear lack of demonstrable > evidence and without regard for logical coherence or consistency. It > is also anti-scientific because methodologically, science seeks > knowable, testable and repeatable explanations for events. Science > does not get involved with ad hoc pseudoexplanations which cannot be > tested or understood in by any coherent means. > > But where does the temptation part come in? It is obvious how this > magical thinking can be described as "transcendental," because it > seeks to find explanations which transcend our normal world and > experience, but why are people tempted to accept these stories? The > explanation is twofold - first our innate creativity, and second our > penchant for seeking patterns. Together, they can lead people to > false beliefs: > > The imagination draws a fanciful picture of a transcendental reality, > some kind of celestial kingdom. Time and again theistic myth appeals > to the hungry soul; it feeds the creative imagination and soothes the > pain of living. There must be something beyond this actual world, > which we cannot see, hear, feel or touch. There must be a deeper > world, which the intellect ponders and the e
