Re: interesting problem
It seems David Leimbach wrote: So... I have this nice SATA drive and controller which I believe is supported by FreeBSD but not in the default build for releases. What is the best way to cross-build a version of FreeBSD's release ISOs that will include drivers not included in the default distribution? Or is it possible to supply a driver during sysinstall time to have FreeBSD recognize my hard disk? There is no ATA support that is not included in the stock GENERIC kernel, so I'm not sure what you mean here ? It would be helpfull to know what controller and disk we are talking about, 'a' SATA controller and disk isn't really helpfull :) -Søren ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: interesting problem
On Friday, June 6, 2003, at 08:53 AM, Soeren Schmidt wrote: It seems David Leimbach wrote: So... I have this nice SATA drive and controller which I believe is supported by FreeBSD but not in the default build for releases. What is the best way to cross-build a version of FreeBSD's release ISOs that will include drivers not included in the default distribution? Or is it possible to supply a driver during sysinstall time to have FreeBSD recognize my hard disk? There is no ATA support that is not included in the stock GENERIC kernel, so I'm not sure what you mean here ? It would be helpfull to know what controller and disk we are talking about, 'a' SATA controller and disk isn't really helpfull :) Interesting... I thought for certain someone had told me there was a driver for the Silicon Image Sil 3112A Controller in FreeBSD. The disk is a Western Digital Raptor http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/serialata/ EnterpriseDrives.asp#spec So far it works quite nicely with Mandrake 9.1. I have another disk I can load FreeBSD onto. How would I go about getting/adding support for this controller? Dave -Søren ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: interesting problem
It seems dave wrote: It seems David Leimbach wrote: So... I have this nice SATA drive and controller which I believe is supported by FreeBSD but not in the default build for releases. What is the best way to cross-build a version of FreeBSD's release ISOs that will include drivers not included in the default distribution? Or is it possible to supply a driver during sysinstall time to have FreeBSD recognize my hard disk? There is no ATA support that is not included in the stock GENERIC kernel, so I'm not sure what you mean here ? It would be helpfull to know what controller and disk we are talking about, 'a' SATA controller and disk isn't really helpfull :) Interesting... I thought for certain someone had told me there was a driver for the Silicon Image Sil 3112A Controller in FreeBSD. No, that one is no supported (yet). The disk is a Western Digital Raptor http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/serialata/ EnterpriseDrives.asp#spec So far it works quite nicely with Mandrake 9.1. I have another disk I can load FreeBSD onto. How would I go about getting/adding support for this controller? Get me a 3112 based controller on my desk :) -Søren ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: interesting problem
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Friday 06 June 2003 14.21, Soeren Schmidt wrote: Get me a 3112 based controller on my desk :) If this is an option, let me know what make and model you would need and I will make sure we get a sponsor for such a controller from the sponsor of www.fruitsalad.org so that you can work on a driver, let me know if we want to go ahead and get this going, is it also possible to work on 3ware SATA support if I provide such a controller? Matt - -- - Matt Douhan www.fruitsalad.org CCIE #4004 *** ping elvis *** *** elvis is alive *** -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE+4M29kU5PITZniCURAmTeAJ9dLpPJNtTza25ZTaaYH0o2Q7QRGwCcCcgJ k0S/ArdjNY17fW6jhKX43EY= =zLnv -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: interesting: problem with nm?
On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Szilveszter Adam wrote: :On Thu, Jun 27, 2002 at 08:05:21PM +0200, Christian Brueffer wrote: : On Thu, Jun 27, 2002 at 10:28:00AM -0700, Matthew Dillon wrote: : It would be great if you guys could re-test with the pmap fix : (/usr/src/sys/i386/i386/pmap.c r1.326). I believe that the pmap : bug was to blame for all of these issues but I need verification before : I have the comfort level necessary to do the MFC I intended to do. : : -Matt : Matthew Dillon : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : : : : Everything works great with the fix. : :Which exposes another interesting problem. : :If I issue 'nm -v', it says: : :/usr/libexec/elf/nm: a.out: No such file or directory : :This system was last upgraded tonight, so has code from around 26th in :the userland. Kernel has been upgraded to code from this evening. : :Does anybody else see this? I have a userland from a week and a half ago (or so? :-/) with last night's kernel (with the pmap.c fix) and do not experience this issue. Cheers, -- Andrew R. Reiter [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: interesting: problem with nm?
* Szilveszter Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] escriuréres Everything works great with the fix. Which exposes another interesting problem. If I issue 'nm -v', it says: /usr/libexec/elf/nm: a.out: No such file or directory If no file is specified for nm to operate on it operates on a.out by default like most other programs that deal with binaries. If a.out does not exist, then you will indeed see that. -- Juli Mallett [EMAIL PROTECTED] | FreeBSD: The Power To Serve Taking over the FreeBSD negaverse.| FreeBSD Negacore Team Will break world for fulltime employment. | finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: interesting: problem with nm?
I think it may be related.. I saw this when I was sufferning from the other problemm make sure you have the pmap fix and then re make buildworld/make installworld when running on a new kernel and see if it goes away. szia! On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, Szilveszter Adam wrote: On Thu, Jun 27, 2002 at 08:05:21PM +0200, Christian Brueffer wrote: On Thu, Jun 27, 2002 at 10:28:00AM -0700, Matthew Dillon wrote: It would be great if you guys could re-test with the pmap fix (/usr/src/sys/i386/i386/pmap.c r1.326). I believe that the pmap bug was to blame for all of these issues but I need verification before I have the comfort level necessary to do the MFC I intended to do. -Matt Matthew Dillon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Everything works great with the fix. Which exposes another interesting problem. If I issue 'nm -v', it says: /usr/libexec/elf/nm: a.out: No such file or directory This system was last upgraded tonight, so has code from around 26th in the userland. Kernel has been upgraded to code from this evening. Does anybody else see this? -- Regards: Szilveszter ADAM Szombathely Hungary To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: interesting: problem with nm?
On Thu, Jun 27, 2002 at 12:13:39PM -0700, Juli Mallett wrote: If no file is specified for nm to operate on it operates on a.out by default like most other programs that deal with binaries. If a.out does not exist, then you will indeed see that. Thanks for the clarification, I expected it to print a version string (because I was only interested in seeing that it does not die after the pmap fix) but had to find out from the man page, that nm(1) uses -V for that, while all other members of the binutils family opt for -v. Oh well... Consistency in software design rocks. So, problem solved. Thanks to all who responded. -- Regards: Szilveszter ADAM Szombathely Hungary To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: interesting: problem with nm?
In the last episode (Jun 27), Szilveszter Adam said: On Thu, Jun 27, 2002 at 12:13:39PM -0700, Juli Mallett wrote: If no file is specified for nm to operate on it operates on a.out by default like most other programs that deal with binaries. If a.out does not exist, then you will indeed see that. Thanks for the clarification, I expected it to print a version string (because I was only interested in seeing that it does not die after the pmap fix) but had to find out from the man page, that nm(1) uses -V for that, while all other members of the binutils family opt for -v. Oh well... Consistency in software design rocks. Since it's a gnu app, --version works also. -- Dan Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
RE: interesting problem
On Sat, 30 Sep 2000, Tony Johnson wrote: I must admit that I have been less then tactful about this thread. I apologize for this. This is my last response to this because once again this has gone on far too long. As far as this response goes. I sense "selective reading." I never said anything abut leaving FreeBSD, even though some developers like Alfred want this, with his "piss off" comments. If you knew alfred, you might understand :p (and I say this with the greatest of love for this friend of mine) It appears that I am not the only one who has seen this. Don't call this an unsubstantiated comment... It's not just me. Noone said you didn't have a problem, the attitude about something broken in -current and "fix it now" was the problem, -current is unstable, I personally have issues with running it on my development box right now, so I went back to PRE_SMPNG and will worry about it after everything is supposedly "fixed" , I suggest a similar solution for you. If you must have a working machine, 4-STABLE may be for you. I personally, do try and find out why I have issues like this, and try to provide debugging onfo if possible. Right now, I don;t have time due to my new position at VA, so have stopped tracking -CURRENT as closely. I did exactly what the handbook suggests. I don;t whine when my -CURRENT build is broken. Guys/gals, stop telling me to just use 4.0 and fix the problem. How do I "help myself" fix a problem with boot floppies?? Noone seems to have an answer to this question, except for "piss off" by Alfred, use 4.0 by pretty much everyone, and "forget your damn irq's" by Alfred. Maybe you are coming in at the tail end and you did not re-read all the info that was said here. Please go back and reread in an "unselective" manner. I know "I" didn't break anything , as I do not alter /usr/src in any way. and thats the point, unless you are going to help debug this, and help code, you should not be running -CURRENT. You have missed the point, it has flown over your head, its now landing on the ground, you might want to go pick it up. Thanks for telling us about the problem, when one has time, after other issues are resolved, I'm sure it will be. Demanding that one if us fix it right now is not going to help your case. This is definitly an election year... that obvious huh? -Trish __ Trish Lynch FreeBSD - The Power to Serve[EMAIL PROTECTED] Rush Networking [EMAIL PROTECTED] VA Linux Systems[EMAIL PROTECTED] O|S|D|N [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- "So much style without substance. So much stuff without style. It's hard to recognize the real thing. It comes along once in a while. Like a rare and precious metal beneath a ton of rock It takes some time and trouble to separate from the stock You sometimes have to listen to a lot of useless talk." -Rush, Grand Designs To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
RE: interesting problem
I must admit that I have been less then tactful about this thread. I apologize for this. This is my last response to this because once again this has gone on far too long. As far as this response goes. I sense "selective reading." I never said anything abut leaving FreeBSD, even though some developers like Alfred want this, with his "piss off" comments. Mr Nickolay Dudorov said, I must say that (at least in my configuration) there IS the connection between 'trap 12' while booting CURRENT builded (with build+install-world and build+install-kernel) at 27.09 and 28.09 AND disabled in BIOS IDE controller. My system is based on Abit's BP6 motherboard with two Celerons 366. If I disable in BIOS conf. menu standard IDE controller and try to boot the system with the (ATA) disks on the HPT366 controller I receive 'trap 12' after 'atapci0: Busmastering DMA not enabled' message. After enabling primary IDE controller in BIOS without any disks or CDROMs on it I successfully boot this -current system and write this message from it. -current builded at 24.09 successfully boots and works on my system with primary and secondary IDE controllers disabled in BIOS. Unfortunately I have no time to spend on debugging this situation. If somebody ( sos ?) wants the screen shot of the trap message I can send it to you (with the results of the 'nm'-ing the kernel ?). N.Dudorov It appears that I am not the only one who has seen this. Don't call this an unsubstantiated comment... It's not just me. Guys/gals, stop telling me to just use 4.0 and fix the problem. How do I "help myself" fix a problem with boot floppies?? Noone seems to have an answer to this question, except for "piss off" by Alfred, use 4.0 by pretty much everyone, and "forget your damn irq's" by Alfred. Maybe you are coming in at the tail end and you did not re-read all the info that was said here. Please go back and reread in an "unselective" manner. I know "I" didn't break anything , as I do not alter /usr/src in any way. This is definitly an election year... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Gerhard Sittig Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 12:12 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: interesting problem But it could be just as well the way the handbook told you: -CURRENT is the place where development takes place. Using -CURRENT you're supposed to know what you do and how to help yourself. What the participants in the past thread wanted you to do is to provide some more info to make them able to help you better. Claiming "you broke it somewhere - guess where - , fix it or I'll leave" will make you get answers like "feel free to choose the second". Chances are that the "broken code" works for other people. Only you and nobody else can provide the info what exactly breaks things for _you_ -- nobody else has the system to repeat and explore it. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: interesting problem
On Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 06:47:17PM -0500, Tony Johnson wrote: It appears that I am not the only one who has seen this. Don't call this an unsubstantiated comment... It's not just me. I didn't quote anything else of your message because this is the obvious problem: No one questioned if you had a problem, no one questioned if you were or weren't the only person to have a problem. However, if you're not willing to get good debugging information in the way that the developers ask for then we have a branch made just for you. -current helps those who help themselves. -- Bill Fumerola - Network Architect, BOFH / Chimes, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
You should be running -STABLE (Was: Re: interesting problem)
Tony Johnson wrote: Since I am complaining then I need to figure out what U have done to make 5.0-CURRENT crash?? Well atleast U admit that U do not know and U do not care. So anyone who is using FreeBSD should also not care?? This is more screwed up then I thought and people @FreeBSD have made this much harder then necessary. Learn the lesson now and save us all from reading your messages in the future. First: If you run FreeBSD-CURRENT, you must take the time to read at least 2 mailing lists being freebsd-current and cvs-all. I'd recommend archiving them as well and definitely have your own source repo. Second: Dont try to antagonise the list. Do you think that everyone is actually aiming to produce a broken by design system ? Third: Investigate you own problem. If you can fix it you have provided a service to others who have the same hardware. You may have to spend time doing a search of your email to identify the likely commit that caused your problem... keep release CD's around for quick testing of boot floppies. Keep a source repo so you can checkout kernel floppies from around the exact change to the GENERIC kernel that broke your system. There should never be time deadlines on you doing this because YOU SHOULD NOT USE -CURRENT FOR A PRODUCTION SYSTEM. It really doesn't take long for new technologies like softupdates, ACPI, ATA-100 to get into the -STABLE stream and then into a release. FreeBSD is a volunteer project with a development model that lets anyone 'listen in' on whats happening at the head of the development tree. If you are prepared to use the head of the tree, you do need to fix your own problems or at least provide the list with an exhaustive list of your configuration and the behaviour you see under everything you've tried (removing hardware, changing cards, flashing BIOS, hacking CODE! yes you can do this too!). If you dont have time to do this, run -STABLE or the last release. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: interesting problem
* Tony Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] [000928 17:54] wrote: I really did not want to reply to this but since some people believe that I am just see-ing things, then I will set this straight. No we don't Tony, we aren't claiming any stability in -current, I'm sure people will remeber your initial bug report and eventually work out a fix. Unfortunatly for you they may also remeber how you continued to hammer on this issue while completely deluding yourself. I have a dual PPro-200 systems. aha-3950u2 scsi card. Teflon cables from scsi-cables.com. Segate cheetah 4.5gig drive that runs FreeBSD5.0-Current since it came out. I have been running FreeBSD for years... I ran 3.0 and 4.0 when they were /current and I never had these problems. You were obviously luckier than I was at times. I cannot even get the thing (5.0-Current in recent days) to boot from boot floppies that you put on ftp://current.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots/i386. If you are producing an OS that does not boot on /current then say this publicly and not curse me out for your production of a non functional product. We do, read on. I'm sure I could produce a set of non-functioning asm code that just crashes peoples machines, if your idea of development is this. I don't believe that I need to write an email list for this. Actually Tony, I'm unsure if you're able to produce _any_ code because so I really can't remeber seeing any code produced by you. You also seriously need to read the handbook, http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/current-stable.html: 18.2.1.1. What is FreeBSD-CURRENT? FreeBSD-CURRENT is, quite literally, nothing more than a daily snapshot of the working sources for FreeBSD. These include work in progress, experimental changes and transitional mechanisms that may or may not be present in the next official release of the software. While many of us compile almost daily from FreeBSD-CURRENT sources, there are periods of time when the sources are literally un-compilable. These problems are generally resolved as expeditiously as possible, but whether or not FreeBSD-CURRENT sources bring disaster or greatly desired functionality can literally be a matter of which part of any given 24 hour period you grabbed them in! It goes on to say: 18.2.1.3. What is FreeBSD-CURRENT not? 1.A fast-track to getting pre-release bits because you heard there is some cool new feature in there and you want to be the first on your block to have it. 2.A quick way of getting bug fixes. 3.In any way ``officially supported'' by us. We do our best to help people genuinely in one of the 3 ``legitimate'' FreeBSD-CURRENT categories, but we simply do not have the time to provide tech support for it. This is not because we are mean and nasty people who do not like helping people out (we would not even be doing FreeBSD if we were), it is literally because we cannot answer 400 messages a day and actually work on FreeBSD! I am sure that, if given the choice between having us answer lots of questions or continuing to improve FreeBSD, most of you would vote for us improving it. Can you imagine that! Yup, you were warned, you were told, the only thing we couldn't do (unfortunatly) is fly someone over to fwap you with a rolled up newspaper when you initially thought of running -current. I think all three points are reason enough for you to stop using -current. I have a better idea, how about an option on the install to save buffer cache to a floppy disk , or atleast the portion that caused the automatic reboot??? Gdb anyone? Sure, send patches, follow my previous advice or simply piss off. jeez, -- -Alfred Perlstein - [[EMAIL PROTECTED]|[EMAIL PROTECTED]] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: interesting problem
* Thomas David Rivers [EMAIL PROTECTED] [000928 03:34] wrote: Alfred, Just playing `devils advocate' here. But, in some initial install situations, exactly how is the user, even the most knowledgeable one, supposed to do much of anything if the install itself doesn't work? Not too much chance of building a kernel, getting a crashdump, etc... I think I just detailed how one could do that in my first two responses. Although it may be something we want to put off for awhile, being able to gather debugging information during a failed install would be rather nice. I'm not sure how this could happen; perhaps a crashdump to an MSDOS file system (if available)? Or, straight to a partition with some recovery program that reads the dump? Or, over a serial line? [Just tossing out ideas.] Maybe ficl can get involved and manage this? I would keep this as one of those "maybe nice to have in the ideal future" ideas - but it's something to ponder... Yes, it's a very good idea. I've brought up changing the default panic to output a traceback so that the user could post it, but bringing it up is a far cry from implementing it. * even without debug symbols a traceback can be very helpful if one can locate the IP and text addresses of the kernel. However, he shouldn't have been using -current in the first place, and when someone offers to reach out and help it's not the time to get snippy about it. (seriously, refusing to read the handbook?) I've been guilty of this sort of cluelessness and arrogance in the past and I'm glad that a few people came down on me about my attitude while at the same time offering extremely useful advice. Jordan, Mike Smith and John Polstra to name a few, all in one incident actually. I think without their application of knowledge and smack-down I wouldn't have learned nearly as much. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [[EMAIL PROTECTED]|[EMAIL PROTECTED]] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: interesting problem
On Thu, Sep 28, 2000 at 21:45 -0500, Tony Johnson wrote: Since I am complaining then I need to figure out what U have done to make 5.0-CURRENT crash?? Well atleast U admit that U do not know and U do not care. So anyone who is using FreeBSD should also not care?? This is more screwed up then I thought and people @FreeBSD have made this much harder then necessary. irony mode on It seems you finally got it. Somebody thought about "what can I do to break _his_ system? I have some spare time and I feel bored ...". irony mode off But it could be just as well the way the handbook told you: -CURRENT is the place where development takes place. Using -CURRENT you're supposed to know what you do and how to help yourself. What the participants in the past thread wanted you to do is to provide some more info to make them able to help you better. Claiming "you broke it somewhere - guess where - , fix it or I'll leave" will make you get answers like "feel free to choose the second". Chances are that the "broken code" works for other people. Only you and nobody else can provide the info what exactly breaks things for _you_ -- nobody else has the system to repeat and explore it. virtually yours 82D1 9B9C 01DC 4FB4 D7B4 61BE 3F49 4F77 72DE DA76 Gerhard Sittig true | mail -s "get gpg key" [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- If you don't understand or are scared by any of the above ask your parents or an adult to help you. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: interesting problem
Alfred Perlstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Tony Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] [000927 18:26] wrote: OK Well Here is the issue. If I put in the 2 boot floppies I get a page fault 12 after I press Q for "quit" on the visual kernel config. If I can save a crash dump before any FS's are mounted or even before I tell FBSD where to put the crash dump, I'd really like to know this... I'd like to read a handbook page on thisb since some people think I just haven't read it. At this point in an install, if you could tell me (and the rest of the FreeBSD users) where I could get the boot floppies to save a crash dump (because I haven't even gotten this far) then I would appreciate this amd be more then happy to substantiate this by sending you a crash dump. Do you realize how much developer time you're wasting by thrashing around cluelessly on the list demanding help? Here's a clue: Forget about your damn irq problem, boot with the disks installed, then read section of the handbook about crashdumps, compile a debug kernel and figure out what the problem is. Fix it and send us a patch. Or you could simply run -stable. Alfred, Just playing `devils advocate' here. But, in some initial install situations, exactly how is the user, even the most knowledgeable one, supposed to do much of anything if the install itself doesn't work? Not too much chance of building a kernel, getting a crashdump, etc... Although it may be something we want to put off for awhile, being able to gather debugging information during a failed install would be rather nice. I'm not sure how this could happen; perhaps a crashdump to an MSDOS file system (if available)? Or, straight to a partition with some recovery program that reads the dump? Or, over a serial line? [Just tossing out ideas.] Maybe ficl can get involved and manage this? I would keep this as one of those "maybe nice to have in the ideal future" ideas - but it's something to ponder... - Dave Rivers - -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Work: (919) 676-0847 Get your mainframe (370) `C' compiler at http://www.dignus.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
RE: interesting problem
I really did not want to reply to this but since some people believe that I am just see-ing things, then I will set this straight. I have a dual PPro-200 systems. aha-3950u2 scsi card. Teflon cables from scsi-cables.com. Segate cheetah 4.5gig drive that runs FreeBSD5.0-Current since it came out. I have been running FreeBSD for years... I ran 3.0 and 4.0 when they were /current and I never had these problems. I cannot even get the thing (5.0-Current in recent days) to boot from boot floppies that you put on ftp://current.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots/i386. If you are producing an OS that does not boot on /current then say this publicly and not curse me out for your production of a non functional product. I'm sure I could produce a set of non-functioning asm code that just crashes peoples machines, if your idea of development is this. I don't believe that I need to write an email list for this. I have a better idea, how about an option on the install to save buffer cache to a floppy disk , or atleast the portion that caused the automatic reboot??? Gdb anyone? If you need more information from me about my product then please ask me and I will say so. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Thomas David Rivers Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 5:33 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: interesting problem Alfred Perlstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Tony Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] [000927 18:26] wrote: OK Well Here is the issue. If I put in the 2 boot floppies I get a page fault 12 after I press Q for "quit" on the visual kernel config. If I can save a crash dump before any FS's are mounted or even before I tell FBSD where to put the crash dump, I'd really like to know this... I'd like to read a handbook page on thisb since some people think I just haven't read it. At this point in an install, if you could tell me (and the rest of the FreeBSD users) where I could get the boot floppies to save a crash dump (because I haven't even gotten this far) then I would appreciate this amd be more then happy to substantiate this by sending you a crash dump. Do you realize how much developer time you're wasting by thrashing around cluelessly on the list demanding help? Here's a clue: Forget about your damn irq problem, boot with the disks installed, then read section of the handbook about crashdumps, compile a debug kernel and figure out what the problem is. Fix it and send us a patch. Or you could simply run -stable. Alfred, Just playing `devils advocate' here. But, in some initial install situations, exactly how is the user, even the most knowledgeable one, supposed to do much of anything if the install itself doesn't work? Not too much chance of building a kernel, getting a crashdump, etc... Although it may be something we want to put off for awhile, being able to gather debugging information during a failed install would be rather nice. I'm not sure how this could happen; perhaps a crashdump to an MSDOS file system (if available)? Or, straight to a partition with some recovery program that reads the dump? Or, over a serial line? [Just tossing out ideas.] Maybe ficl can get involved and manage this? I would keep this as one of those "maybe nice to have in the ideal future" ideas - but it's something to ponder... - Dave Rivers - -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Work: (919) 676-0847 Get your mainframe (370) `C' compiler at http://www.dignus.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: interesting problem
[Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] On Thursday, 28 September 2000 at 19:54:01 -0500, Tony Johnson wrote: On Thursday, September 28, 2000 5:33 AM, Thomas David Rivers wrote: Alfred Perlstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Tony Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] [000927 18:26] wrote: OK Well Here is the issue. If I put in the 2 boot floppies I get a page fault 12 after I press Q for "quit" on the visual kernel config. If I can save a crash dump before any FS's are mounted or even before I tell FBSD where to put the crash dump, I'd really like to know this... I'd like to read a handbook page on thisb since some people think I just haven't read it. At this point in an install, if you could tell me (and the rest of the FreeBSD users) where I could get the boot floppies to save a crash dump (because I haven't even gotten this far) then I would appreciate this amd be more then happy to substantiate this by sending you a crash dump. Do you realize how much developer time you're wasting by thrashing around cluelessly on the list demanding help? Here's a clue: Forget about your damn irq problem, boot with the disks installed, then read section of the handbook about crashdumps, compile a debug kernel and figure out what the problem is. Fix it and send us a patch. Or you could simply run -stable. Alfred, Just playing `devils advocate' here. But, in some initial install situations, exactly how is the user, even the most knowledgeable one, supposed to do much of anything if the install itself doesn't work? Not too much chance of building a kernel, getting a crashdump, etc... Although it may be something we want to put off for awhile, being able to gather debugging information during a failed install would be rather nice. I'm not sure how this could happen; perhaps a crashdump to an MSDOS file system (if available)? Or, straight to a partition with some recovery program that reads the dump? Or, over a serial line? [Just tossing out ideas.] Maybe ficl can get involved and manage this? I would keep this as one of those "maybe nice to have in the ideal future" ideas - but it's something to ponder... Certainly it would be a nice idea. We have plenty of cases where a -CURRENT system might have difficulties booting. In general we solve the problem in one of two ways: 1. Build a kernel with debugger support and analyse what the problem is. 2. Work around it long enough to get the system to a point where you can take dumps. This is the approach Alfred is suggesting. I don't think this has much to to with the current situation: based on the evidence we have seen, it seems that Tony has tried to boot a release snapshot of -CURRENT. It failed. Coincidentally, he has also disabled IDE support in the belief that this might buy him something. Now he comes and claims that there is a connection between these two events, but he doesn't give us any evidence. I really did not want to reply to this but since some people believe that I am just see-ing things, then I will set this straight. I don't think anybody claims you're seeing things. I have a dual PPro-200 systems. aha-3950u2 scsi card. Teflon cables from scsi-cables.com. Segate cheetah 4.5gig drive that runs FreeBSD5.0-Current since it came out. Maybe you should change the teflon cables. I have been running FreeBSD for years... I ran 3.0 and 4.0 when they were /current and I never had these problems. I cannot even get the thing (5.0-Current in recent days) to boot from boot floppies that you put on ftp://current.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/snapshots/i386. If you are producing an OS that does not boot on /current then say this publicly and not curse me out for your production of a non functional product. For public record: we are not producing an OS that does not boot. We're prepared to believe that you're unable to boot it, but you're not doing anything to get people to help you. I'm sure I could produce a set of non-functioning asm code that just crashes peoples machines, if your idea of development is this. I don't believe that I need to write an email list for this. No, of course not. In fact, saying things like that really discredits you. I have a better idea, how about an option on the install to save buffer cache to a floppy disk , or atleast the portion that caused the automatic reboot??? Gdb anyone? A typical machine nowadays has 128 MB of memory. That would just about fit on an LS-120, but you'd need about 90 floppies to dump to. That doesn't make sense. My personal feeling is that you should take Alfred's advice and try to boot without disabling IDE. It may or may not work. If it doesn't, you'll know you're wrong about connecting the two events. If it does, it'll give you a system which is usable for debugging the problem. If you need more information from me about my product then please ask me and I will say so. I
RE: interesting problem
I will not provide comments as the below messages are already too messy. Remove my teflon cables... Hmmm... I'll try it but something tells me that this is like trying to shoot an arbitrary star in the midnight sky. FreeBSD doesn't like teflon or is it just my system??? The issue is this. I have been cvsup-ing 5.0-Current for months and recently I have and these problems. Within the last 4 weeks. My scsi cables or my adaptec controller had no influence on this since recently... I don't believe turning on stuff that has no functionality to the system should be an issue. If it is then this is broken. "People compile daily from -Current" Well I was one of them and I don't believe that my system is the problem! People keep saying that I am shooting blanks because I haven't provided any evidence. Give me a way to provide evidence and I will show you that 2000927-5.0CURRENT has crashed my machine which has worked on pretty much every revision of FreeBSD since 3.0-Current! The teflon cables and everything... As said below... "In particular, note who should be doing the work: the people who have the problem. It doesn't do any good to thrash around, make unsubstantiated claims and blame other people. On the contrary, it makes people think you're a jerk." Since I am complaining then I need to figure out what U have done to make 5.0-CURRENT crash?? Well atleast U admit that U do not know and U do not care. So anyone who is using FreeBSD should also not care?? This is more screwed up then I thought and people @FreeBSD have made this much harder then necessary. -Original Message- From: Greg Lehey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 8:51 PM To: Tony Johnson Cc: Thomas David Rivers; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: interesting problem [Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] On Thursday, 28 September 2000 at 19:54:01 -0500, Tony Johnson wrote: On Thursday, September 28, 2000 5:33 AM, Thomas David Rivers wrote: Alfred Perlstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Tony Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] [000927 18:26] wrote: OK Well Here is the issue. If I put in the 2 boot floppies I get a page fault 12 after I press Q for "quit" on the visual kernel config. If I can save a crash dump before any FS's are mounted or even before I tell FBSD where to put the crash dump, I'd really like to know this... I'd like to read a handbook page on thisb since some people think I just haven't read it. At this point in an install, if you could tell me (and the rest of the FreeBSD users) where I could get the boot floppies to save a crash dump (because I haven't even gotten this far) then I would appreciate this amd be more then happy to substantiate this by sending you a crash dump. Do you realize how much developer time you're wasting by thrashing around cluelessly on the list demanding help? Here's a clue: Forget about your damn irq problem, boot with the disks installed, then read section of the handbook about crashdumps, compile a debug kernel and figure out what the problem is. Fix it and send us a patch. Or you could simply run -stable. Alfred, Just playing `devils advocate' here. But, in some initial install situations, exactly how is the user, even the most knowledgeable one, supposed to do much of anything if the install itself doesn't work? Not too much chance of building a kernel, getting a crashdump, etc... Although it may be something we want to put off for awhile, being able to gather debugging information during a failed install would be rather nice. I'm not sure how this could happen; perhaps a crashdump to an MSDOS file system (if available)? Or, straight to a partition with some recovery program that reads the dump? Or, over a serial line? [Just tossing out ideas.] Maybe ficl can get involved and manage this? I would keep this as one of those "maybe nice to have in the ideal future" ideas - but it's something to ponder... Certainly it would be a nice idea. We have plenty of cases where a -CURRENT system might have difficulties booting. In general we solve the problem in one of two ways: 1. Build a kernel with debugger support and analyse what the problem is. 2. Work around it long enough to get the system to a point where you can take dumps. This is the approach Alfred is suggesting. I don't think this has much to to with the current situation: based on the evidence we have seen, it seems that Tony has tried to boot a release snapshot of -CURRENT. It failed. Coincidentally, he has also disabled IDE support in the belief that this might buy him something. Now he comes and claims that there is a connection between these two events, but he doesn't give us any evidence. I really did not want to reply to this but since some people believe that I am just see-ing things, then
Re: interesting problem
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED] you wrote: I don't think this has much to to with the current situation: based on the evidence we have seen, it seems that Tony has tried to boot a release snapshot of -CURRENT. It failed. Coincidentally, he has also disabled IDE support in the belief that this might buy him something. Now he comes and claims that there is a connection between these two events, but he doesn't give us any evidence. I must say that (at least in my configuration) there IS the connection between 'trap 12' while booting CURRENT builded (with build+install-world and build+install-kernel) at 27.09 and 28.09 AND disabled in BIOS IDE controller. My system is based on Abit's BP6 motherboard with two Celerons 366. If I disable in BIOS conf. menu standard IDE controller and try to boot the system with the (ATA) disks on the HPT366 controller I receive 'trap 12' after 'atapci0: Busmastering DMA not enabled' message. After enabling primary IDE controller in BIOS without any disks or CDROMs on it I successfully boot this -current system and write this message from it. -current builded at 24.09 successfully boots and works on my system with primary and secondary IDE controllers disabled in BIOS. Unfortunately I have no time to spend on debugging this situation. If somebody ( sos ?) wants the screen shot of the trap message I can send it to you (with the results of the 'nm'-ing the kernel ?). N.Dudorov To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: interesting problem
On Thursday, 28 September 2000 at 21:45:13 -0500, Tony Johnson wrote: I will not provide comments as the below messages are already too messy. It would be nice if you'd adhere to the conventions when you reply, however. It's much easier to understand in chronological order. I've now had to manually move your comments to below the text to which they refer. The issue is this. I have been cvsup-ing 5.0-Current for months and recently I have and these problems. Within the last 4 weeks. My scsi cables or my adaptec controller had no influence on this since recently... OK, this is new information. I don't believe turning on stuff that has no functionality to the system should be an issue. If it is then this is broken. Agreed, if it is. We first need to establish that. You seem to be missing the point that we don't blame individual components until we have evidence. "People compile daily from -Current" Well I was one of them and I don't believe that my system is the problem! I don't believe anything yet. You need to find out what the problem is. In case you didn't notice it, I've had some problems as well in the last couple of days. Follow that thread, it might give you an idea about how we go about solving problems in -CURRENT. On Thursday, September 28, 2000 8:51 PM, Greg Lehey wrote: On Thursday, 28 September 2000 at 19:54:01 -0500, Tony Johnson wrote: I have a dual PPro-200 systems. aha-3950u2 scsi card. Teflon cables from scsi-cables.com. Segate cheetah 4.5gig drive that runs FreeBSD5.0-Current since it came out. Maybe you should change the teflon cables. Remove my teflon cables... Hmmm... I'll try it but something tells me that this is like trying to shoot an arbitrary star in the midnight sky. FreeBSD doesn't like teflon or is it just my system??? I'm sorry, this was intended as a reductio ad absurdum. I consider it so unlikely that it is the cables that I was drawing a parallel to you assuming that disabling the IDE drivers was the reason for My personal feeling is that you should take Alfred's advice and try to boot without disabling IDE. It may or may not work. If it doesn't, you'll know you're wrong about connecting the two events. If it does, it'll give you a system which is usable for debugging the problem. People keep saying that I am shooting blanks because I haven't provided any evidence. Give me a way to provide evidence and I will show you that 2000927-5.0CURRENT has crashed my machine which has worked on pretty much every revision of FreeBSD since 3.0-Current! The teflon cables and everything... It looks a little funny now that I've moved your text here, doesn't it? See how chronological order changes and clarifies things? In case you haven't noticed, I have given you a suggestion immediately above, but since you replied in a different place, you appear not to have noticed it. Maybe it's time to remind people about -CURRENT: Many users compile almost daily from FreeBSD-CURRENT sources, but there are times when the sources are uncompilable. The problems are always resolved, but others can take their place. On occasion, keeping up with FreeBSD-CURRENT can be a full-time business. If you use -CURRENT, you should be prepared to spend a lot of time keeping the system running. In particular, note who should be doing the work: the people who have the problem. It doesn't do any good to thrash around, make unsubstantiated claims and blame other people. On the contrary, it makes people think you're a jerk. As said below... As said just above, where it belongs. "In particular, note who should be doing the work: the people who have the problem. It doesn't do any good to thrash around, make unsubstantiated claims and blame other people. On the contrary, it makes people think you're a jerk." You don't need to repeat it, it's there in the text. Since I am complaining then I need to figure out what U have done to make 5.0-CURRENT crash?? Well atleast U admit that U do not know and U do not care. So anyone who is using FreeBSD should also not care?? This is more screwed up then I thought and people @FreeBSD have made this much harder then necessary. This kind of statement just tends to harden the negative impression you're already making. We care, but we don't care enough to do work for other people when they're just being abusive. If you want to run -CURRENT, at least pull your weight. I won't answer another message of this nature. Greg -- Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: interesting problem
I will not provide comments as the below messages are already too messy. Remove my teflon cables... Hmmm... I'll try it but something tells me that this is like trying to shoot an arbitrary star in the midnight sky. FreeBSD doesn't like teflon or is it just my system??? I think there have been a few people in this thread who've replied with a significant lack of tact and for that probably need to be taken to task - I don't think that many aspects of this thread have reflected well on the participants in that regard. That said, I'll take the liberty of translating what I believe they're *trying* to say in a way which I'm hoping will be a more tactful. The practice of running -current, something which any commercial Unix development shop would not even give its "customers" the benefit of, is one definitely not recommended for everyone. It's basically for developers and people who can, at the very minimum, provide crash dumps and actively help to debug problems. Please note that I do not say "help report problems" since that's not actually what's being solicited by making -current widely available - that would entail a staff of people who did little more than interpret problem reports and we're not big enough to sustain that kind of effort yet. What we're looking for with -current are essentially "co-developers", everyone else being actively (and, in some cases, forcefully) directed to -stable. In short, I honestly believe you're simply on the wrong branch and will do both yourself and the developers a world of good by jumping out of the shark tank and into more hospitable waters. Should your problems persist in -stable, that will be an entirely different matter and I'll be among the first to jump in and try and help you debug the problem. With -current, all bets are literally off. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: interesting problem
On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Tony Johnson wrote: When I booted the 9/27/2000 (ie. today) I got a page fault 12 in kernel mode. The problem seems to be because I have all my IDE devices turned off in my bios. If this is the case, please undo this! That would be the silliest reason for a kernel to not boot because I want to save irq's. I got this from downloading the flp images and fdimage-ing them to disks! Please fix this You havent given enough information to diagnose the problem. See the handbook about kernel debugging. Kris -- In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate. -- Charles Forsythe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
RE: interesting problem
I don't believe the handbook covers "today's" 5.0-Current... Why would having no bustmastering DMA IDE disk contriollers on an all-scsi system cause a system to page fault from "today's" kern.flp mfsroot.flp boot floppy. Try again... -Original Message- From: Kris Kennaway [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 6:48 PM To: Tony Johnson Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: interesting problem On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Tony Johnson wrote: When I booted the 9/27/2000 (ie. today) I got a page fault 12 in kernel mode. The problem seems to be because I have all my IDE devices turned off in my bios. If this is the case, please undo this! That would be the silliest reason for a kernel to not boot because I want to save irq's. I got this from downloading the flp images and fdimage-ing them to disks! Please fix this You havent given enough information to diagnose the problem. See the handbook about kernel debugging. Kris -- In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate. -- Charles Forsythe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
RE: interesting problem
On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Tony Johnson wrote: I don't believe the handbook covers "today's" 5.0-Current... Why would having no bustmastering DMA IDE disk contriollers on an all-scsi system cause a system to page fault from "today's" kern.flp mfsroot.flp boot floppy. Try again... No, you try again: You havent given enough information to diagnose the problem. See the handbook about kernel debugging. Did you even look at the handbook section in question? Kris -- In God we Trust -- all others must submit an X.509 certificate. -- Charles Forsythe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: interesting problem
On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Tony Johnson wrote: When I booted the 9/27/2000 (ie. today) I got a page fault 12 in kernel mode. The problem seems to be because I have all my IDE devices turned off in my bios. If this is the case, please undo this! That would be the silliest reason for a kernel to not boot because I want to save irq's. I got this from downloading the flp images and fdimage-ing them to disks! Please fix this You havent given enough information to diagnose the problem. See the handbook about kernel debugging. Kris * Tony Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] [000927 17:07] wrote: I don't believe the handbook covers "today's" 5.0-Current... Why would having no bustmastering DMA IDE disk contriollers on an all-scsi system cause a system to page fault from "today's" kern.flp mfsroot.flp boot floppy. Try again... How about "go away"? Don't be rude to a developer offering good advice, if you're unable to follow his instructions on how to provide a crashdump you shouldn't be running -current or you should at least ask nicely. And -current is covered in the handbook: http://www.freebsd.org/handbook/current-stable.html later, -- -Alfred Perlstein - [[EMAIL PROTECTED]|[EMAIL PROTECTED]] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk." To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: interesting problem
[Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] On Wednesday, 27 September 2000 at 19:07:17 -0500, Tony Johnson wrote: On Wednesday, September 27, 2000 6:48 PM, Kris Kennaway wrote: On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Tony Johnson wrote: When I booted the 9/27/2000 (ie. today) I got a page fault 12 in kernel mode. The problem seems to be because I have all my IDE devices turned off in my bios. This is a claim which you need to substantiate. If this is the case, please undo this! How do we know if this is the case? That would be the silliest reason for a kernel to not boot because I want to save irq's. I got this from downloading the flp images and fdimage-ing them to disks! Well, no, I can think of sillier reasons. But if it's the case, we should do something about it. Please fix this Fix what? You havent given enough information to diagnose the problem. See the handbook about kernel debugging. I don't believe the handbook covers "today's" 5.0-Current... It contains information that you need to understand. Why would having no bustmastering DMA IDE disk contriollers on an all-scsi system cause a system to page fault from "today's" kern.flp mfsroot.flp boot floppy. Who knows? You haven't given any evidence for this opinion. Try again... Your turn. If you run -CURRENT, you're expected to do some work yourself. Certainly it's inappropriate to make an unsubstantiated claim and then say "fix it". If you want help, do what people suggest and come back with sensible questions if you don't understand something. Greg -- When replying to this message, please take care not to mutilate the original text. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/email.html Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
RE: interesting problem
OK Well Here is the issue. If I put in the 2 boot floppies I get a page fault 12 after I press Q for "quit" on the visual kernel config. If I can save a crash dump before any FS's are mounted or even before I tell FBSD where to put the crash dump, I'd really like to know this... I'd like to read a handbook page on thisb since some people think I just haven't read it. At this point in an install, if you could tell me (and the rest of the FreeBSD users) where I could get the boot floppies to save a crash dump (because I haven't even gotten this far) then I would appreciate this amd be more then happy to substantiate this by sending you a crash dump. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
Re: interesting problem
* Tony Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] [000927 18:26] wrote: OK Well Here is the issue. If I put in the 2 boot floppies I get a page fault 12 after I press Q for "quit" on the visual kernel config. If I can save a crash dump before any FS's are mounted or even before I tell FBSD where to put the crash dump, I'd really like to know this... I'd like to read a handbook page on thisb since some people think I just haven't read it. At this point in an install, if you could tell me (and the rest of the FreeBSD users) where I could get the boot floppies to save a crash dump (because I haven't even gotten this far) then I would appreciate this amd be more then happy to substantiate this by sending you a crash dump. Do you realize how much developer time you're wasting by thrashing around cluelessly on the list demanding help? Here's a clue: Forget about your damn irq problem, boot with the disks installed, then read section of the handbook about crashdumps, compile a debug kernel and figure out what the problem is. Fix it and send us a patch. Or you could simply run -stable. thanks, -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message
