.qmail, autorespond config for naive end-users

Hello everyone! I run qmail, courier-imap, and FreeBSD as a mail server for a small business network. Most of the end-users have no familiarity with UNIX, and so training them to SSH into the mail server and uncomment the autoresponder line in their .qmail configuration file c. is a bit

Re: trouble with 5.2.1-RELEASE install

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 15:09:48 +1000 (EST) eodyna [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi, it doesn't seam that today is my day :P ive tried to install 5.2.1 on a machine and i get the following error (sorry i had to type it) hello eo, i'm sorry that you had to type it too.;) freebsd

Re: pthread

On Fri, Jul 16, 2004 at 02:28:03PM -0400, aaron wrote: If I compile a program with -pthread should the program show links to both libc and libc_r in the output of ldd? In 5.x shows link for both. In 4.x only shows a link for libc_r. That's correct. In 4.x libc_r is a replacement for libc,

Re: clamd keeps exiting

On Thursday 15 July 2004 08:34 am, Mipam wrote: ls /var/log/clamav/clamd.log yields: +++ Started at Wed Jul 14 10:30:57 2004 clamd daemon 0.74 (OS: freebsd5.2.1, ARCH: i386, CPU: i386) Log file size limited to 2097152 bytes. Verbose logging activated. Running as user clamav (UID 1006, GID

First time CUPS user, config problems?

Hello list. I'm trying to use CUPS for the first time, with all the good things I've heard/read about it on this list. I'm mainly trying to use it as I've got an OfficeJet G85 that I've never used with FreeBSD and linuxprinting.org has a 'mostly' working driver. Here's what I've done thus

Re: closer, no cigar.

On Thu, Jul 15, 2004 at 10:17:39AM +0300, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: On 2004-07-14 18:41, Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Jul 14, 2004 at 10:39:29PM +0300, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: You also have to set things up in /etc/mail. Have you changed any configuration files in that

Re: .qmail, autorespond config for naive end-users

Eric Heintzberger wrote: Hello everyone! I run qmail, courier-imap, and FreeBSD as a mail server for a small business network. Most of the end-users have no familiarity with UNIX, and so training them to SSH into the mail server and uncomment the autoresponder line in their .qmail configuration

Re: First time CUPS user, config problems?

Eric Crist wrote: Hello list. I'm trying to use CUPS for the first time, with all the good things I've heard/read about it on this list. I'm mainly trying to use it as I've got an OfficeJet G85 that I've never used with FreeBSD and linuxprinting.org has a 'mostly' working driver. Here's what

Re: First time CUPS user, config problems?

On Saturday 17 July 2004 03:17, Peter Risdon wrote: Cups installs /usr/local/bin/lp and /usr/local/bin/lpr and leaves /usr/bin/lp and /usr/bin/lpr in place. Back these up, symlink the cups versions into their places and try again. If you want to verify you have a properly running Cups before

string manipulation in a shell script

Hi guys and Gals, I have a simple script: #!/bin/sh a=ia$(date +%d%m%Y) tar -cf $a.zip /usr/home/projects/lunaria/items all mv $a.zip /usr/home/itemsall/ this nearly does what I want, I would like to put the time in the file name aswell. If I put the %T in the date variable, the resultant value

Re: FreeBSD Hosting

Joseph Koenig wrote: Hi, I'm sure this question comes up, but I am looking at switching hosting companies and am considering going with a dedicated server or co-locating some servers somewhere. Regardless of which way I go, I want to make sure the hosting facility has technicians who have

flayra@overmind.org no longer valid

Hello there, Due to getting thousands of messages of spam every day, I had to shut off this account. Please head on over to http://www.unknownworlds.com to get my new contact info if needed. Sorry for the inconvenience. -Charlie ___ [EMAIL

Re: First time CUPS user, config problems?

Eric Crist wrote: On Saturday 17 July 2004 03:17, Peter Risdon wrote: Cups installs /usr/local/bin/lp and /usr/local/bin/lpr and leaves /usr/bin/lp and /usr/bin/lpr in place. Back these up, symlink the cups versions into their places and try again. If you want to verify you have a properly running

Re: First time CUPS user, config problems?

Eric Crist wrote: Hello list. I'm trying to use CUPS for the first time, with all the good things I've heard/read about it on this list. I'm mainly trying to use it as I've got an OfficeJet G85 that I've never used with FreeBSD and linuxprinting.org has a 'mostly' working driver. Here's what

Re: string manipulation in a shell script

On Sat, Jul 17, 2004 at 04:33:27PM +0800, Kathy Quinlan wrote: Hi guys and Gals, I have a simple script: #!/bin/sh a=ia$(date +%d%m%Y) tar -cf $a.zip /usr/home/projects/lunaria/items all mv $a.zip /usr/home/itemsall/ this nearly does what I want, I would like to put the time in

Re: string manipulation in a shell script

Kathy Quinlan wrote: Hi guys and Gals, I have a simple script: #!/bin/sh a=ia$(date +%d%m%Y) tar -cf $a.zip /usr/home/projects/lunaria/items all mv $a.zip /usr/home/itemsall/ this nearly does what I want, I would like to put the time in the file name aswell. If I put the %T in the date variable,

Re: First time CUPS user, config problems?

Hi, I hope this would work for you.. I have recently installed my printer and be able to print successfully using CUPS and gimp-print drivers. What I did was: 1. Install the latest cups printing daemon and gimp-print or whatever port you will need to drive your printer(I don't know if you

Re: First time CUPS user, config problems?(success story)

Hi, I hope this would work for you.. I have recently installed my printer and be able to print successfully using CUPS and gimp-print drivers. What I did was: 1. Install the latest cups printing daemon and gimp-print or whatever port you will need to drive your printer(I don't know if you

[no subject]

From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Jul 16 08:20:37 2004 Return-path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Envelope-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivery-date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 08:20:37 -0500 Received: from fusemail.com by fuse1.fusemail.net with smtp (FuseMail incSMTP) id 1BlSdh-0003IR-7U for [EMAIL

Re: adsl bittorrent speeds troubleshooting

Hi, eodyna - I'm trimming this message to the bittorrent references. On Sat, 17 Jul 2004, eodyna wrote: Im a newbie with this, im having trouble with my download speeds with my adsl modem, and i just wanted to elimanate that the problem isn't my computers configuration. This is my first

upgrading form 4.2 to 5.x

Hello, My company has been asked to help with the upgrade of several Freebsd systems that are pretty old. The customer is running a file server samba also running apache running FBSD 4.2, he wants to upgrade using cvsup the make buildworld procedure to upgrade to 5.x. Im very familier with the

Re: upgrading form 4.2 to 5.x

Brent Bailey wrote: Hello, My company has been asked to help with the upgrade of several Freebsd systems that are pretty old. The customer is running a file server samba also running apache running FBSD 4.2, he wants to upgrade using cvsup the make buildworld procedure to upgrade to 5.x. Im very

Re: upgrading form 4.2 to 5.x

Remko Lodder wrote: Brent Bailey wrote: Hello, My company has been asked to help with the upgrade of several Freebsd systems that are pretty old. The customer is running a file server samba also running apache running FBSD 4.2, he wants to upgrade using cvsup the make buildworld procedure to

Re: string manipulation in a shell script

Matthew Seaman wrote: On Sat, Jul 17, 2004 at 04:33:27PM +0800, Kathy Quinlan wrote: Hi guys and Gals, I have a simple script: #!/bin/sh a=ia$(date +%d%m%Y) tar -cf $a.zip /usr/home/projects/lunaria/items all mv $a.zip /usr/home/itemsall/ this nearly does what I want, I would like to put the time

upgrading form 4.2 to 5.x

Brent Bailey writes: The customer is running a file server samba also running apache running FBSD 4.2, he wants to upgrade using cvsup the make buildworld procedure to upgrade to 5.x. Your familiarity not withstanding, I would recommend against this. About the only reason to do

Re: Problem with xorgcfg

On Wednesday, July 14, 2004, at 11:21 PM, José de Paula wrote: On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 23:14:16 +1000, Adrian Waters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all. I've just upgraded from XFree86 to Xorg (fresh install of 5.2.1R-p9), and it seems to be working okay, except when I try to run xorgcfg in order to

Re: Guide to x.org update?

On Tuesday 29 June 2004 05:29 am, Geert Hendrickx [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I followed Matthew's instructions to upgrade from XFree86-4.3 to X.org and it worked well. It took about 14 hours on my laptop (a P3 with 64Mb or RAM). I have not recompiled any other packages and I haven't had any

Re: hardware not supported

On Wed, Jul 14, 2004 at 02:10:40PM +0300, Sergey Limarenko wrote: why don't supported ethernet card D-Link 580TX, but 570TX - supported i very need this driver, where i can find it? D-Link 580TX is supported by ste(4). (However, I haven't tried it yet)

Re: sanitizing disks: wiping swap, non-allocated space, and file-tails

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004, David Kreil wrote: I wonder, in particular, how system directories like /var would be kept on a gdbe partition. Much like any other, but the major issue is that, unlike /tmp/ and swap (which can be wiped clean when a machine boots with no ill effects), other partitions need

Root fs full - free space always below 0

Hello, so during a portupgrade on my laptop the root fs, with soft updates enabled, became full. So I removed a bunch of stuff to make a few gigs available. I checked and df reported more than a gig of free space - so I re-ran portupgrade. Then I noticed it was full again, with df showing a

Re: First time CUPS user, config problems?

Peter Risdon wrote: Eric Crist wrote: Hello list. I'm trying to use CUPS for the first time, with all the good things I've heard/read about it on this list. I'm mainly trying to use it as I've got an OfficeJet G85 that I've never used with FreeBSD and linuxprinting.org has a 'mostly' working

Re: First time CUPS user, config problems?

At Sat, 17 Jul 2004 it looks like Peter Risdon composed: Cups installs /usr/local/bin/lp and /usr/local/bin/lpr and leaves /usr/bin/lp and /usr/bin/lpr in place. Back these up, symlink the cups versions into their places and try again. If I'm not mistaken, cups does install lpr and lprm and

Replacing hd

Hello, I have a hd going bad. It is not the primary drive but is ad2s1e ad2s1f it holds /usr and /tmp How can I put in a new drive and copy everything over and not miss a beat. if possible. THanks Mark ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list

Re: adsl bittorrent speeds troubleshooting

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 14:33:21 +1000 (EST), eodyna wrote hi guys, Im a newbie with this, im having trouble with my download speeds with my adsl modem, and i just wanted to elimanate that the problem isn't my computers configuration. This is my first time with adsl so im not 100% that the

Re: adsl bittorrent speeds troubleshooting

Hi - On Sat, 17 Jul 2004, DrVince wrote: On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 14:33:21 +1000 (EST), eodyna wrote hi guys, Im a newbie with this, im having trouble with my download speeds with my adsl modem, and i just wanted to elimanate that the problem isn't my computers configuration. This is my

Re: First time CUPS user, config problems?

Bill Schoolcraft wrote: At Sat, 17 Jul 2004 it looks like Peter Risdon composed: Cups installs /usr/local/bin/lp and /usr/local/bin/lpr and leaves /usr/bin/lp and /usr/bin/lpr in place. Back these up, symlink the cups versions into their places and try again. If I'm not mistaken, cups does

FreeBSD beginner part2 questions

after receiving lots of support from freebsd-question i completely (almost) moved home machine/server to freebsd. and have question: 1) can userland ppp negotiate deflate with NetBSD pppd on other side? my ppp.conf looks like that: stalka: set log Phase Chat tun set device /dev/cuaa2

sio errors

are messages like that normal in logs? Jul 17 19:15:31 chylonia kernel: sio2: 681 more interrupt-level buffer overflows (total 101746) with NetBSD i've got similar too but very very rare, now i'm getting every 10-20 seconds. anyway - ftp speeds doesn't look much slower. chip is 16550A on ISA

Re: First time CUPS user, config problems?

On Saturday 17 July 2004 05:05, Peter Risdon wrote: Eric Crist wrote: On Saturday 17 July 2004 03:17, Peter Risdon wrote: Cups installs /usr/local/bin/lp and /usr/local/bin/lpr and leaves /usr/bin/lp and /usr/bin/lpr in place. Back these up, symlink the cups versions into their places and

Re: First time CUPS user, config problems?

On Saturday 17 July 2004 14:14, Henrik W Lund wrote: Check out /var/log/cups/error.log for error messages. I like to crank the logging level to debug level 2 in /usr/local/etc/cupsd.conf as well, whenever it's not behaving like I want it to. Hope this helps! -Henrik W Lund k, I had to

Re: adsl bittorrent speeds troubleshooting

Im a newbie with this, im having trouble with my download speeds with my adsl modem, and i just wanted to elimanate that the problem isn't my computers configuration. This is my first time with adsl so im not 100% that the configuration is correct. I use the BitTornado BitTorrent client, so my

cd clone img cd image

hi all dose anyone know of a way to burn an img image that was created in windows at home i don't have any windows machines anymore Arden ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To

Re: cd clone img cd image

hi all dose anyone know of a way to burn an img image that was created in windows at home i don't have any windows machines anymore isn't windows-created images just normal images+few extra info files? ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list

Re: Replacing hd

in aix there is a migratepv command which would be ideal for this. Not sure if its available in bsd a quick google/bsd brought up a couple of hits arden On Sat, 2004-07-17 at 16:42, Mark wrote: Hello, I have a hd going bad. It is not the primary drive but is ad2s1e ad2s1f it holds

Re: cd clone img cd image

this image is *.img was expecting *.iso .img appears to be unique to clone CD On Sat, 2004-07-17 at 19:27, Wojciech Puchar wrote: hi all dose anyone know of a way to burn an img image that was created in windows at home i don't have any windows machines anymore isn't

Re: Root fs full - free space always below 0

Peter Schuller wrote: Hello, so during a portupgrade on my laptop the root fs, with soft updates enabled, became full. So I removed a bunch of stuff to make a few gigs available. I checked and df reported more than a gig of free space - so I re-ran portupgrade. Then I noticed it was full

dsl modem configuration

Hello group, this is my first post to the forum. I´m gerardo, from argentina. I have a little problem with my dsl modem: CA-80U (Amigo USB). i can´t install it. The machine is a PIII 600, 256MB RAM, 40GB Maxtor, Anihilator Pro DDR 32MB, Sound Blaster Live Platinum (doesn´t work in freebsd), 4.10

Re: dsl modem configuration

is this a usb modem ? in my experience Ethernet are much easier arden On Sat, 2004-07-17 at 20:57, Gerardo wrote: Hello group, this is my first post to the forum. I´m gerardo, from argentina. I have a little problem with my dsl modem: CA-80U (Amigo USB). i can´t install it. The machine

Re: upgrading form 4.2 to 5.x

Remko Lodder: Brent Bailey wrote: Hello, My company has been asked to help with the upgrade of several Freebsd systems that are pretty old. The customer is running a file server samba also running apache running FBSD 4.2, he wants to upgrade using cvsup the make buildworld procedure to

Re: dsl modem configuration

I have a little problem with my dsl modem: CA-80U (Amigo USB). i can´t install it. Does the modem show up in your dmesg? If not, you probably don't have a driver for it installed. Make sure you've got all the USB support you need compiled into your kernel. My system detected a Westell WireSpeed

Re: .qmail, autorespond config for naive end-users

Thanks for the tip. My impression was that qmailadmin is intended for a certain kind of virtual domain setup, and designed so that the administrator of each domain would have a GUI admin console, not necessarily the end-users. But maybe it could work in my case as well. Peter Risdon wrote:

Re: Root fs full - free space always below 0

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 14:37:29 -0500 uidzero [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Schuller wrote: Hello, so during a portupgrade on my laptop the root fs, with soft updates enabled, became full. So I removed a bunch of stuff to make a few gigs available. I checked and df reported more than a gig

buildworld fails in /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/gperf/ ==make: don't know how to make getopt.c

I'm upgrading from 4.9-RELEASE to 4.10-STABLE, but I can't get past make buildworld I ran make clean from /usr/src, then cvsup'd src-all from cvsup3.freebsd.org and ran make buildworld from /usr/src but got the error below. So, just to make sure everything was ok, I ran rm -rd /usr/obj and rm

Re: upgrading form 4.2 to 5.x

Conventional wisdom is that upgrading over major versions is an interesting academic exercise and an a great display of the power and flexibility of the platform, but that if you're just trying to get a working system then a clean install is the preferred method. With good separation of system,

Xfree Nvidia, Panic

Hi all I've finally got a basic freebsd system up and running *my faults not freebsd's* but im having a bugger of a time getting X to work. Well working with GL. I have just today updated my src, made a new world and custom kernel, all working fine. For X, when i have it setup as nv, X works

Re: upgrading form 4.2 to 5.x

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 14:50:13 +0200 Remko Lodder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brent Bailey wrote: Hello, My company has been asked to help with the upgrade of several Freebsd systems that are pretty old. The customer is running a file server samba also running apache running FBSD 4.2, he

Re: buildworld fails in /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/gperf/ ==make: don't know how to make getopt.c

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 15:59:32 -0500 (CDT) Lane Holcombe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm upgrading from 4.9-RELEASE to 4.10-STABLE, but I can't get past make buildworld in your sup file, have you got RELENG_4 or RELENG_4_10? I ran make clean from /usr/src, then cvsup'd src-all from

DOH!!!!! RELENG_4_10! ... That'd make a difference! (was: Re: buildworld fails in /usr/src/gnu/usr.bin/gperf/ ==make: don't knowhow to make getopt.c)

Thanks! I guess I'll fix my cvsupfile now! lane On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 15:59:32 -0500 (CDT) Lane Holcombe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm upgrading from 4.9-RELEASE to 4.10-STABLE, but I can't get past make buildworld in your sup file, have you got RELENG_4 or RELENG_4_10?

Re: Root fs full - free space always below 0

epilogue wrote: On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 14:37:29 -0500 uidzero [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Schuller wrote: Hello, so during a portupgrade on my laptop the root fs, with soft updates enabled, became full. So I removed a bunch of stuff to make a few gigs available. I checked and df reported

Device Driver - before I start

Is there a helping hand to give me some advice where / how to start? I want: - a pseudo device, which collects every now and then data from an external box via serial line (/dev/cuaa1) Box-Status and some more information shoud be readable, whichever Commands have to be sent to the Box

Re: upgrading form 4.2 to 5.x

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:14:22 -0400 epilogue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 14:50:13 +0200 Remko Lodder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brent Bailey wrote: Hello, My company has been asked to help with the upgrade of several Freebsd systems that are pretty old. The

Re: upgrading form 4.2 to 5.x

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:14:22 -0400 From: epilogue [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 14:50:13 +0200 Remko Lodder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brent Bailey wrote: Hello, My company has been asked to help with the upgrade of several Freebsd systems

Re: First time CUPS user, config problems?

Eric Crist wrote: On Saturday 17 July 2004 14:14, Henrik W Lund wrote: Check out /var/log/cups/error.log for error messages. I like to crank the logging level to debug level 2 in /usr/local/etc/cupsd.conf as well, whenever it's not behaving like I want it to. Hope this helps! -Henrik W Lund

Re: Device Driver - before I start

Richard Kaestner wrote: Is there a helping hand to give me some advice where / how to start? I want: - a pseudo device, which collects every now and then data from an external box via serial line (/dev/cuaa1) Box-Status and some more information shoud be readable, whichever Commands have to be

postfix, smtp-auth, Cyrus SASL for relay restriction troubles.

Hey People, ok... My hair is falling out fast enough without me pulling it, so I'm looking for some help with this: I've installed postfix and Cyrus SASL on FreeBSD 5.1 and I am having the worst time getting any authentication to work for smtp-auth. I've attached log and configuration snips below.

Re: hi res logo ?

Am Freitag, 16. Juli 2004 23:25 schrieb Jon Barnard: Hello, Is a hi resolution logo available of the FreeBSD (with tagline, Daemon and yellow behind text? GIFS are just too small. Many THX. What do you mean with GIFS are just too small? Do you know this page:

Re: postfix, smtp-auth, Cyrus SASL for relay restriction troubles.

On Sat, Jul 17, 2004 at 07:28:39PM -0400, Tim Schutt wrote: Hey People, ok... My hair is falling out fast enough without me pulling it, so I'm looking for some help with this: I've installed postfix and Cyrus SASL on FreeBSD 5.1 and I am having the worst time getting any authentication to

Re: sanitizing disks: wiping swap, non-allocated space, and file-tails

Dear Jan, Thank you very much for your comments! I wonder, in particular, how system directories like /var would be kept on a gdbe partition. Much like any other, but the major issue is that, unlike /tmp/ and swap (which can be wiped clean when a machine boots with no ill effects),

Re: Replacing hd

On Saturday 17 July 2004 15:42, Mark wrote: Hello, I have a hd going bad. It is not the primary drive but is ad2s1e ad2s1f it holds /usr and /tmp How can I put in a new drive and copy everything over and not miss a beat. if possible. THanks Mark Hi! I did something like this once.

Re: First time CUPS user, config problems?

At Sat, 17 Jul 2004 it looks like Peter Risdon composed: Bill Schoolcraft wrote: At Sat, 17 Jul 2004 it looks like Peter Risdon composed: Cups installs /usr/local/bin/lp and /usr/local/bin/lpr and leaves /usr/bin/lp and /usr/bin/lpr in place. Back these up, symlink the cups versions

Re: postfix, smtp-auth, Cyrus SASL for relay restriction troubles.

--On Saturday, July 17, 2004 7:28 PM -0400 Tim Schutt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey People, ok... My hair is falling out fast enough without me pulling it, so I'm looking for some help with this: I've installed postfix and Cyrus SASL on FreeBSD 5.1 and I am having the worst time getting any

Sendmail to Postfix/courier-imap

Would appreciate a good how-to/website on going from sendmail to postfix/courier-imap. -- Best regards, Chris -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ClamAV virus dat updated: Sat Jul 17 2004 at 03:02:51 daily.cvd is up

Re: Sendmail to Postfix/courier-imap

--On Saturday, July 17, 2004 7:51 PM -0500 Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would appreciate a good how-to/website on going from sendmail to postfix/courier-imap. The postfix part is pretty straightforward. Just make install clean the port and then follow the instructions in pkg-message. I use

runing FreeBSD on WinXP using free PC virtualization software

Hello everyone, Is there any free software to run FreeBSD on WinXP? I tried google and it looks like there is no free software to run FreeBSD on WinXP. regards Ashadul ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list

Re: runing FreeBSD on WinXP using free PC virtualization software

You could run it in Bochs. Check out the project at http://bochs.sourceforge.net/ I use it on my Mac and it works fine. On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 10:27:11 +0600, ashadul hoque [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello everyone, Is there any free software to run FreeBSD on WinXP? I tried google and it looks

O/S question I guess

FreeBSD team,I'm a video editor and computer builder/repair tech in a small town. My bussiness partner and I are considering switching to a new AMD 64Bit machine. We've been ptting it off due to o/s issues. Win XP will run on a amd64 machine but will not full take advantage of the new

Re: O/S question I guess

Jason, If you do not like Linux, then you might not like FBSD. This is assuming you are talking about the GUI interfaces. FreeBSD still uses GNOME and KDE and other desktop systems, but (from my experience) those two are the most used. So if you didn't like GNOME or KDE on Linux, then you