Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hey there ladies and gents: Let's not run another developer off. We do have so few. DNIE --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
yEYes, that's it right there. Tom is missing out on the important things in life.Danie --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
he'll see a lot of good will come out of it. He will have undone a whole lot of damage he and this community have suffered due to this whole sad enterprise. He'll be a role-model particularly for the younger people among us who will see that despite a lot of adversity, he did his absolute best to make good on a promise. That will certainly count for a lot in the long run if he decides to keep working on accessible games. I, for one, sincerely hope that he does. Michael Feir Creator and former editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 Check out my blog at: http://www.blindspots.net/blog.php?user=13 - Original Message - From: Trouble [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. What about the game you started to work on after giving up the mag? or did you quit that too? Kind of takes the point out of what you said. At 04:48 PM 3/22/2008, you wrote: Hello everyone. I've been following this thread hoping that common sense would prevail and am happy to see somebody like Charles come forward and present the case for those of us who were disappointed in Tom's decision in such a patient and rational manner. Not everyone who opposed Tom's changes did so in an unjust or unreasonable way. It doesn't mean that we're spoiled brats who are upset at not getting what we've wanted. What Tom expected was just unreasonable and unfair to those of us who have both paid for something and been very patient waiting for. What do you think would happen if airline pilots decided to take their passengers to destinations the pilots thought would be more fun to fly to? Florida would certainly seem to be a destination of choice this time of year for people here in Ontario Canada. However, if I were taken there right now, I'd resent it because I'd miss out on the Easter festivities my family and I are enjoying over this long weekend. The pilot who took me to Florida has decided, wrongly in my case, that I'd rather be in Florida since he would rather fly me there. Keeping somebody accountable isn't the same as being a whining spoiled brat. I could just as easily flip that around and propose that this industry is full of developers who, like the pilot who flew me to Florida, have god complexes and presume that everyone should be happy with what they themselves want. We see that many times from people who go ahead and do something they presume will be helpful to us but isn't. Have you ever been taken to the wrong place by somebody who was trying to be helpful but didn't have a clue where you actually wanted to go? I've been late for a couple of classes at university including one where I was presenting due to somebody assuming they knew where I wanted to go. I grant you that the south building of the Erindale campus has far better eating options than the Kanev lecture centre I was actually heading for. Florida has sunshine and inviting beaches rather than sidewalks covered in sheets of ice. However, I would much rather be here now than in Florida and would rather have been in the Kanev centre all those years ago for very good reasons. It's not at all that I don't appreciate where Tom is coming from with this. Quite the opposite in fact. I've often found that projects started out of a simple desire for fairness or from an honest commitment can end up turning into real chores to complete. I'm going through that right now with the guide I've been working on for the past two years. A lot of blind people get personal computers and don't receive the knowledge they need to make effective use of them in their personal lives. In Ontario here, we can tap into government funds to get such computers. However, the training provided leaves many people unable to properly maintain their computers or use them for more than basic reading and writing. The government considers all other uses of their computers such as the Internet, games, online shopping, etc, to be superfluous. People are often left discouraged to go beyond what they've been taught for fear of getting into trouble which they must then pay to have somebody come out and fix. They aren't told of all the accessible games and other software such as Winamp that we on this list largely take for granted. Two years ago, I started working on a guide to try and fix this with the assumption that people already knew the basics of the Windows operating system or whatever system they chose to use and I could concentrate on those areas like the Internet and tuning into Internet radio stations. The guide was much more about making people aware of all the possabilities their computers opened up to them. Last Summer, I took what I had up to a centre on Lake Joseph set up for blind people and consulted a number of the guests about what I was doing. They indeed liked my personal friendly approach to teaching this stuff. However, there was a big problem. Well over
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Nobody was complaining that he was trying something new. The complaint was that he was going to replace what was ordered with something totally different. --- Laughter is the best medicine. Look around you and find a dose. - Original Message - From: Tj [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Personally I think the ew Mota sounds cooler than the old Monty game. But, hey. I'm just a lonley college student who probaly doesn't matter! *grins*. Seriously, guys, let him do what he, as a developer wants, and don't gripe about it. Now I see why we don't have many good games. No offense to the other developers. But whenevr someone decides to do somethign new, everyone complains. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Personally I think the ew Mota sounds cooler than the old Monty game. But, hey. I'm just a lonley college student who probaly doesn't matter! *grins*. Seriously, guys, let him do what he, as a developer wants, and don't gripe about it. Now I see why we don't have many good games. No offense to the other developers. But whenevr someone decides to do somethign new, everyone complains. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
I wasn't talking about all sidescrolers, I was talking about monti. Someone else brought other sidescrolers into what I said. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. That's not the point. The point is that you can't just play Monte and then say all side scrollers are too easy. And it's Castlevania, not Castle Whatchamacallit. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Willem [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Sure I don't, but monti isnt castle Wachimacallit, it is monti. - Original Message - From: Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 6:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Anyone who thinks sidescrollers are too easy obviously has no experience whatsoever with the megaman series, or castlevania. Nuff said. - Original Message - From: Orin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. I agree totally with this statement. As I said, we don't need sidescrollers. I've said it in the past. Super Liam is a game that shows us that sidescrollers are: 1. Too easy: 2: No replay value: 3: Too retro (When was the last time a sighted gamer even mentioned that a sidescroller was coming out?) Well, no one did simply because there isn't one, and there never will be. If the sighted people have 3- D games, we should be getting them too. I know people like me who don't play audio games because of this simple factor. A bunch of us have said it before, and I'll say it again since Tomas was the only one that seemed to notice: We have too much arcade games. We don't have a single complex game out there that is challenging and or competes with, Monkey Business. Which is, in case the babies of the blind community haven't noticed, and probably haven't beaten it yet, the most challenging game in the accessible games market today. Now it'd be considered a classic. But Tomas, please just make the audio games market better by making both STFC 2 and Moda 3-D. To get the sidescroller out of the way, slap some code together real fast. If there's bugs? Tuff luck. Also, make it freeware and forget about it. Than you can start to work on extremely hard, and complex games with new consepts that blind people have never sceen before in an accessible game. Orin [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype: orin1112 Do you like mudding? To discuss related topics, go here. http://www.tbmic.jiglu.com Do you like audio books? Would you like to hear them with enritching sound, music and acting? Stop reading books from the NLS, and go to http://www.graphicaudio.net , you'll be glad you did. I don't work there, but I love them so much I have to advertise them in every email I send. On Mar 21, 2008, at 7:29 PM, will lomas wrote: but youa re thomas, onlyp roducing this for the minority all the rest of us tom want the 3d game why are you giving into charles let him cry in the corner, see if we care, we don't hands up who gives a toss whether a few peoples' opinions matter? look, all the kiddies raised there hands, we don't. see? we want the 3d game tom if charles hadn't have objected and others this would ahve been the plan see charles, truth hurts but i am right. do us all a favour and unsubscribe as you are just person causing bs for one fella and the rest of us On 22 Mar 2008, at 00:12, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Charles, Thanks to me being a very honest person you wouldn't even have known what the poll results were if I hadn't published them on the list. If I was unscrupulous, less honest, I would announced a totally different out come and you wouldn't have known the difference. As it is I was being honest about the results. It is not that the poll results are unimportant or I don't care what you all think. It is about I have to spend six months, a year, whatever of my life making a game I don't want to create. A game I have lost all interest in, and in all likelyhood never play again after it is finished. Let's put this in perspective. Most of the time I program for fun. I do it as relaxation, for entertainment value, and when it loses that entertainment value what is it? It is called work. It is a well known fact i write these games in my free or spare time. What you are commiting me to is not working on a job, but using all of my free or spare time to deliver something for someone elses enjoyment. Not my own. Now, in return for this game I want you and the rest of the community to use every minute
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
What about the game you started to work on after giving up the mag? or did you quit that too? Kind of takes the point out of what you said. At 04:48 PM 3/22/2008, you wrote: Hello everyone. I've been following this thread hoping that common sense would prevail and am happy to see somebody like Charles come forward and present the case for those of us who were disappointed in Tom's decision in such a patient and rational manner. Not everyone who opposed Tom's changes did so in an unjust or unreasonable way. It doesn't mean that we're spoiled brats who are upset at not getting what we've wanted. What Tom expected was just unreasonable and unfair to those of us who have both paid for something and been very patient waiting for. What do you think would happen if airline pilots decided to take their passengers to destinations the pilots thought would be more fun to fly to? Florida would certainly seem to be a destination of choice this time of year for people here in Ontario Canada. However, if I were taken there right now, I'd resent it because I'd miss out on the Easter festivities my family and I are enjoying over this long weekend. The pilot who took me to Florida has decided, wrongly in my case, that I'd rather be in Florida since he would rather fly me there. Keeping somebody accountable isn't the same as being a whining spoiled brat. I could just as easily flip that around and propose that this industry is full of developers who, like the pilot who flew me to Florida, have god complexes and presume that everyone should be happy with what they themselves want. We see that many times from people who go ahead and do something they presume will be helpful to us but isn't. Have you ever been taken to the wrong place by somebody who was trying to be helpful but didn't have a clue where you actually wanted to go? I've been late for a couple of classes at university including one where I was presenting due to somebody assuming they knew where I wanted to go. I grant you that the south building of the Erindale campus has far better eating options than the Kanev lecture centre I was actually heading for. Florida has sunshine and inviting beaches rather than sidewalks covered in sheets of ice. However, I would much rather be here now than in Florida and would rather have been in the Kanev centre all those years ago for very good reasons. It's not at all that I don't appreciate where Tom is coming from with this. Quite the opposite in fact. I've often found that projects started out of a simple desire for fairness or from an honest commitment can end up turning into real chores to complete. I'm going through that right now with the guide I've been working on for the past two years. A lot of blind people get personal computers and don't receive the knowledge they need to make effective use of them in their personal lives. In Ontario here, we can tap into government funds to get such computers. However, the training provided leaves many people unable to properly maintain their computers or use them for more than basic reading and writing. The government considers all other uses of their computers such as the Internet, games, online shopping, etc, to be superfluous. People are often left discouraged to go beyond what they've been taught for fear of getting into trouble which they must then pay to have somebody come out and fix. They aren't told of all the accessible games and other software such as Winamp that we on this list largely take for granted. Two years ago, I started working on a guide to try and fix this with the assumption that people already knew the basics of the Windows operating system or whatever system they chose to use and I could concentrate on those areas like the Internet and tuning into Internet radio stations. The guide was much more about making people aware of all the possabilities their computers opened up to them. Last Summer, I took what I had up to a centre on Lake Joseph set up for blind people and consulted a number of the guests about what I was doing. They indeed liked my personal friendly approach to teaching this stuff. However, there was a big problem. Well over half of them would be stuck unable to make use of the guide. They didn't have the basic knowledge of Windows which I presumed they had received as part of their training. They needed to know about how to run programs, files and folders, what the desktop and startmenu were, how to use the control panel, etc. They needed to know how to crawl before they could walk. Needless to say, I was thunderstruck. We're quite fortunate in Ontario to have the funding we have and despite that, people are being left without such basic knowledge. Things are worse elsewhere across Canada and apparently in the US and UK as well. In many places, computers just aren't provided for any kind of personal use. To make my project at all useful to a staggeringly high proportion of my potential audience, I was going to have to give those people who
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
No it most certainly isn't',and I whole-heartedly agree with you, however, let me ask you; How far are you willing to take it?… Where does your character lie, with your dollar or with your heart?… Catch my meaning?… Smiles, Cara :) On Mar 22, 2008, at 11:14 AM, Charles Rivard wrote: I agree with Sarah on this one. The message yoy responded to is exactly the problem. Regardless of how much you pay for something, you want to get what you paid for. That is not unfair. --- Laughter is the best medicine. Look around you and find a dose. - Original Message - From: Cara Quinn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 3:32 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Okay, his answer may not be a good one, but what about this? For even those who paid for the game; how much was it? Now, you really need to ask yourselves, regardless of those who celebrate the upcoming holiday or not, is this amount of money worth treating someone with ill will? Is any amount? Is this offense so bad that it now becomes your right and earned privilege to point fingers and words? I think that even those who haven't paid for this game will understand my above point. People, please, tell me your better than this? Honestly? I really want to believe you are… Sincerely, Cara Quinn On Mar 21, 2008, at 10:39 AM, Sarah Haake wrote: Hi, well, I think the point is that many people have paid for a sidescroller, waited for the game and there was a poll which showed that the majority wanted it to be as it was. It doesn't matter to me if sidescrollers are old or not. there is no point in saying that this an old style of game when there are still people who want to play this style. And since we voted for it and many people paid for it, I think there definitely is something to worry about. This is no situation where a developer begins a completely new game and people complain because he wants to make a 3D game. This is a situation where many were waiting for a game to be finished and now have to realize that they will not get what they waited for for years, what they paid for. I think that Michael got the point very well here and to say that people should program there own sidescroller is no answer to this situation, because they paid for it and waited for it and it's a disappointment to pay for something and get something completely different in the end. I myself am disappointed now and am glad that I didn't preorder the game, because then I would be even more disappointed now. Regards Sarah --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Someone else brought others into the discussion because it was stated that all side scrollers are boring and too easy. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Willem [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. I wasn't talking about all sidescrolers, I was talking about monti. Someone else brought other sidescrolers into what I said. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. That's not the point. The point is that you can't just play Monte and then say all side scrollers are too easy. And it's Castlevania, not Castle Whatchamacallit. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Willem [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Sure I don't, but monti isnt castle Wachimacallit, it is monti. - Original Message - From: Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 6:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Anyone who thinks sidescrollers are too easy obviously has no experience whatsoever with the megaman series, or castlevania. Nuff said. - Original Message - From: Orin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. I agree totally with this statement. As I said, we don't need sidescrollers. I've said it in the past. Super Liam is a game that shows us that sidescrollers are: 1. Too easy: 2: No replay value: 3: Too retro (When was the last time a sighted gamer even mentioned that a sidescroller was coming out?) Well, no one did simply because there isn't one, and there never will be. If the sighted people have 3- D games, we should be getting them too. I know people like me who don't play audio games because of this simple factor. A bunch of us have said it before, and I'll say it again since Tomas was the only one that seemed to notice: We have too much arcade games. We don't have a single complex game out there that is challenging and or competes with, Monkey Business. Which is, in case the babies of the blind community haven't noticed, and probably haven't beaten it yet, the most challenging game in the accessible games market today. Now it'd be considered a classic. But Tomas, please just make the audio games market better by making both STFC 2 and Moda 3-D. To get the sidescroller out of the way, slap some code together real fast. If there's bugs? Tuff luck. Also, make it freeware and forget about it. Than you can start to work on extremely hard, and complex games with new consepts that blind people have never sceen before in an accessible game. Orin [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype: orin1112 Do you like mudding? To discuss related topics, go here. http://www.tbmic.jiglu.com Do you like audio books? Would you like to hear them with enritching sound, music and acting? Stop reading books from the NLS, and go to http://www.graphicaudio.net , you'll be glad you did. I don't work there, but I love them so much I have to advertise them in every email I send. On Mar 21, 2008, at 7:29 PM, will lomas wrote: but youa re thomas, onlyp roducing this for the minority all the rest of us tom want the 3d game why are you giving into charles let him cry in the corner, see if we care, we don't hands up who gives a toss whether a few peoples' opinions matter? look, all the kiddies raised there hands, we don't. see? we want the 3d game tom if charles hadn't have objected and others this would ahve been the plan see charles, truth hurts but i am right. do us all a favour and unsubscribe as you are just person causing bs for one fella and the rest of us On 22 Mar 2008, at 00:12, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Charles, Thanks to me being a very honest person you wouldn't even have known what the poll results were if I hadn't published them on the list. If I was unscrupulous, less honest, I would announced a totally different out come and you wouldn't have known the difference. As it is I was being honest about the results. It is not that the poll results are unimportant or I don't care what you all think. It is about I have to spend six months, a year, whatever of my life making a game I don't want to create. A game I have lost all interest in, and in all likelyhood never play again after it is finished. Let's put this in perspective. Most of the time I program for fun. I do it as relaxation, for entertainment value, and when it loses
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
For what it's worth, I'd just like to publicly say that I support Thomas in this. As I hope at least some of you may know, my interest here has absolutely nothing to do with whatever game he chooses to create and everything to do with his integrity as a person. People have suggested that stresses in people's lives are not their problem, and yet somehow then feel it's okay in the very same breath to say how horrible it is that they have to wait for their lil playtoy game to come out so they can have five minutes of lil playtime fun, as if it's truly a dyer fate indeed. Forgive me, but I just have a little problem not mirroring their own sentiments back at them. Please don't lose sight of the person; human; behind this. I personally understand people being upset, however, some of the things written here in this thread, seem to be reflecting some pretty nasty images of their writers. Please, even though you may be disappointed, in this, might you just consider kindness with it? Please? this honestly is a sincere request. Have an awesome day and please do all have a wonderful weekend / holiday, if you celebrate. Smiles, Cara :) On Mar 21, 2008, at 12:26 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Darren, Oh, how I wish it was that simple. I still feel I owe everyone who paid for the game something, but I am at a cross roads between doing what I want and what others want. Frankly, the old side-scroller was suffocating my intellectual and creative desires that are so important to game writing. If you smother the authors creativity and desire to write the game the game will show its authors lack of desire to create it. I love programming for the very fact I can be creative, but a game like Montezuma's Return made me feel like a kid forced to copy his spelling words 500 times during recess. Boring, uninteresting, work for the purpose of punishment. That is really how I was starting to feel towards the end. Nobody on this list knows how many times I failed to watch a movie with my family because I was working on the game. Nobody knows I haven't played my guitar in six months because most free time has been spent on that darn game. Most people don't know I gave up reading time to work on that game. Frankly, I pored my heart and soul into getting it done, and then I was forced to take it down by the copyright holders of the Montezuma's Revenge and Montezuma's Return copyright holders. How in the heck would you feel? Frankly I am down right depressed and upset about it. If it were my choice to do all over again I would tell James North to keep his games, they are his problem, and let him deal with it. I would now be working on my own games, in my own free time, when I felt like it and not trying to meet some schedule or do date. Darren H wrote: Or perhaps Tom should just forget it all together and spend his time doing something he wants to do. Sorry guys and gals, there's more important things to worry about in life. Darren --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
aggreed - Original Message - From: Orin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 12:10 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. I agree totally with this statement. As I said, we don't need sidescrollers. I've said it in the past. Super Liam is a game that shows us that sidescrollers are: 1. Too easy: 2: No replay value: 3: Too retro (When was the last time a sighted gamer even mentioned that a sidescroller was coming out?) Well, no one did simply because there isn't one, and there never will be. If the sighted people have 3- D games, we should be getting them too. I know people like me who don't play audio games because of this simple factor. A bunch of us have said it before, and I'll say it again since Tomas was the only one that seemed to notice: We have too much arcade games. We don't have a single complex game out there that is challenging and or competes with, Monkey Business. Which is, in case the babies of the blind community haven't noticed, and probably haven't beaten it yet, the most challenging game in the accessible games market today. Now it'd be considered a classic. But Tomas, please just make the audio games market better by making both STFC 2 and Moda 3-D. To get the sidescroller out of the way, slap some code together real fast. If there's bugs? Tuff luck. Also, make it freeware and forget about it. Than you can start to work on extremely hard, and complex games with new consepts that blind people have never sceen before in an accessible game. Orin [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype: orin1112 Do you like mudding? To discuss related topics, go here. http://www.tbmic.jiglu.com Do you like audio books? Would you like to hear them with enritching sound, music and acting? Stop reading books from the NLS, and go to http://www.graphicaudio.net , you'll be glad you did. I don't work there, but I love them so much I have to advertise them in every email I send. On Mar 21, 2008, at 7:29 PM, will lomas wrote: but youa re thomas, onlyp roducing this for the minority all the rest of us tom want the 3d game why are you giving into charles let him cry in the corner, see if we care, we don't hands up who gives a toss whether a few peoples' opinions matter? look, all the kiddies raised there hands, we don't. see? we want the 3d game tom if charles hadn't have objected and others this would ahve been the plan see charles, truth hurts but i am right. do us all a favour and unsubscribe as you are just person causing bs for one fella and the rest of us On 22 Mar 2008, at 00:12, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Charles, Thanks to me being a very honest person you wouldn't even have known what the poll results were if I hadn't published them on the list. If I was unscrupulous, less honest, I would announced a totally different out come and you wouldn't have known the difference. As it is I was being honest about the results. It is not that the poll results are unimportant or I don't care what you all think. It is about I have to spend six months, a year, whatever of my life making a game I don't want to create. A game I have lost all interest in, and in all likelyhood never play again after it is finished. Let's put this in perspective. Most of the time I program for fun. I do it as relaxation, for entertainment value, and when it loses that entertainment value what is it? It is called work. It is a well known fact i write these games in my free or spare time. What you are commiting me to is not working on a job, but using all of my free or spare time to deliver something for someone elses enjoyment. Not my own. Now, in return for this game I want you and the rest of the community to use every minute of your family or free time doing home work, house work, tending to other things. You aren't alloud to watch as much TV, read as many books, because you have to do a project for everyone else that gives you absolutely no satisfaction or enjoyment. See how long you last. Charles Rivard wrote: I very much agree. What about those poll results?? The majority wanted a side scrolling game, which there are not enough of. What will we be getting and why? You were on the right track of customer service. As a game developer, are you going to give us, the majority of gamers who were asked, what we?? want, or what you. want. I realize that you are not making any money from those of us who preordered, but think of it this way: What did we pay for? After you took the project over, what did we ask for when you asked us which way to go? What are we now going to get after all this? I respectfully ask that you rethink and go back to at least a side scroller. I'm sure i will like what you have planned, but I think it should be sold as a new game, and make the side scroller as the game we paid for and then voted for when
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Anyone who thinks sidescrollers are too easy obviously has no experience whatsoever with the megaman series, or castlevania. Nuff said. - Original Message - From: Orin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. I agree totally with this statement. As I said, we don't need sidescrollers. I've said it in the past. Super Liam is a game that shows us that sidescrollers are: 1. Too easy: 2: No replay value: 3: Too retro (When was the last time a sighted gamer even mentioned that a sidescroller was coming out?) Well, no one did simply because there isn't one, and there never will be. If the sighted people have 3- D games, we should be getting them too. I know people like me who don't play audio games because of this simple factor. A bunch of us have said it before, and I'll say it again since Tomas was the only one that seemed to notice: We have too much arcade games. We don't have a single complex game out there that is challenging and or competes with, Monkey Business. Which is, in case the babies of the blind community haven't noticed, and probably haven't beaten it yet, the most challenging game in the accessible games market today. Now it'd be considered a classic. But Tomas, please just make the audio games market better by making both STFC 2 and Moda 3-D. To get the sidescroller out of the way, slap some code together real fast. If there's bugs? Tuff luck. Also, make it freeware and forget about it. Than you can start to work on extremely hard, and complex games with new consepts that blind people have never sceen before in an accessible game. Orin [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype: orin1112 Do you like mudding? To discuss related topics, go here. http://www.tbmic.jiglu.com Do you like audio books? Would you like to hear them with enritching sound, music and acting? Stop reading books from the NLS, and go to http://www.graphicaudio.net , you'll be glad you did. I don't work there, but I love them so much I have to advertise them in every email I send. On Mar 21, 2008, at 7:29 PM, will lomas wrote: but youa re thomas, onlyp roducing this for the minority all the rest of us tom want the 3d game why are you giving into charles let him cry in the corner, see if we care, we don't hands up who gives a toss whether a few peoples' opinions matter? look, all the kiddies raised there hands, we don't. see? we want the 3d game tom if charles hadn't have objected and others this would ahve been the plan see charles, truth hurts but i am right. do us all a favour and unsubscribe as you are just person causing bs for one fella and the rest of us On 22 Mar 2008, at 00:12, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Charles, Thanks to me being a very honest person you wouldn't even have known what the poll results were if I hadn't published them on the list. If I was unscrupulous, less honest, I would announced a totally different out come and you wouldn't have known the difference. As it is I was being honest about the results. It is not that the poll results are unimportant or I don't care what you all think. It is about I have to spend six months, a year, whatever of my life making a game I don't want to create. A game I have lost all interest in, and in all likelyhood never play again after it is finished. Let's put this in perspective. Most of the time I program for fun. I do it as relaxation, for entertainment value, and when it loses that entertainment value what is it? It is called work. It is a well known fact i write these games in my free or spare time. What you are commiting me to is not working on a job, but using all of my free or spare time to deliver something for someone elses enjoyment. Not my own. Now, in return for this game I want you and the rest of the community to use every minute of your family or free time doing home work, house work, tending to other things. You aren't alloud to watch as much TV, read as many books, because you have to do a project for everyone else that gives you absolutely no satisfaction or enjoyment. See how long you last. Charles Rivard wrote: I very much agree. What about those poll results?? The majority wanted a side scrolling game, which there are not enough of. What will we be getting and why? You were on the right track of customer service. As a game developer, are you going to give us, the majority of gamers who were asked, what we?? want, or what you. want. I realize that you are not making any money from those of us who preordered, but think of it this way: What did we pay for? After you took the project over, what did we ask for when you asked us which way to go? What are we now going to get after all this? I respectfully ask that you rethink and go back to at least a side scroller. I'm sure i will like what you have planned
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hi Willem, I am not dropping my 3D Tomb Hunter series, but beyond that my plans are going to be kept quiet. Willem wrote: So does this mean you are dropping your plans for the fps? Or are you just keeping the rest of your plans quiet? I won't blame you if you are. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hi Shaun, There is no need to divide the list or break up the members of this list over a decision of weather a game should be 3D or a 2D platformer. We have had worse disagreements than this and survived. shaun everiss wrote: thanks tim, its good that there are those that should really be disapointed that are willing to change. This is the only way the community will go foreward. So because of this I propose a split, those that want to change go to another list, on audyssey.org, those that want to stay with everything as it is can stay here. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hi Charles, I think what you are asking for is justified. It is just not something I agree with, but I don't have much of a choice in the matter now that I myself have taken pre-orders. It as you say a matter of integrety and customer service trust. If I lose one or both of those I might as while drop out of making games altogether. Believe it or not USA Games is dedicated to trust, integrety, and honesty. If that image is marred because I thought we could do better by making a 3D game, a game I thought would be a superior product, I am sorry. I honestly did not expect this out rage, this up roar, and out right rebbellion to the notion of improving the game beyond a simple 2D Atari side-scroller. I know where Michael and Tom are coming from. They were not able to play the classic Montezuma's Revenge when it was out so they want something similar to play. My opinion might be tainted from the fact I had my time with those games, when I was sighted, so that first chance to play isn't so important to me. I played pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, etc when they were out and I don't have as much a desire to get the originals, but others who never played them do. While I am thinking of it perhaps I could turn the side-scroller engine into a copy of Pitfall? Pitfall is along the same vain as Montezuma's Revenge and I don't think it would have the same level of copyright issues as Montezuma's Revenge does. Charles Rivard wrote: I'd buy one just to get the experience. You don't know it if you don't try one. I anticipate one. I would also like to receive what has been bought due to advertising and previously done work. I'm willing to wait longer. I don't demand it to be here that soon. I'm patient because I know that it takes time, and I have always said so. To those who think I'm being unfair, I have a question: How is that unfair? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Monkey Business is an excellent game. Although I have not beaten it, I still enjoy it tremendously. While Super Liam may be a pretty simple game for some, it is not for others. I like it, too. And if you find it easy, this does not mean that all side scrolling games are easy to beat and have no replay value due to their simplicity. Were all of the versions of Montezuma's Revenge really easy for sighted gamers to beat? Whether they were or not, they enjoyed immense popularity. Blind people have never played them until what James North started and Thomas Ward took over. This fact makes them new territory for blind people, regardless of how long ago the sighted gamers played them. --- Laughter is the best medicine. Look around you and find a dose. - Original Message - From: Orin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. I agree totally with this statement. As I said, we don't need sidescrollers. I've said it in the past. Super Liam is a game that shows us that sidescrollers are: 1. Too easy: 2: No replay value: 3: Too retro (When was the last time a sighted gamer even mentioned that a sidescroller was coming out?) Well, no one did simply because there isn't one, and there never will be. If the sighted people have 3- D games, we should be getting them too. I know people like me who don't play audio games because of this simple factor. A bunch of us have said it before, and I'll say it again since Tomas was the only one that seemed to notice: We have too much arcade games. We don't have a single complex game out there that is challenging and or competes with, Monkey Business. Which is, in case the babies of the blind community haven't noticed, and probably haven't beaten it yet, the most challenging game in the accessible games market today. Now it'd be considered a classic. But Tomas, please just make the audio games market better by making both STFC 2 and Moda 3-D. To get the sidescroller out of the way, slap some code together real fast. If there's bugs? Tuff luck. Also, make it freeware and forget about it. Than you can start to work on extremely hard, and complex games with new consepts that blind people have never sceen before in an accessible game. Orin [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype: orin1112 Do you like mudding? To discuss related topics, go here. http://www.tbmic.jiglu.com Do you like audio books? Would you like to hear them with enritching sound, music and acting? Stop reading books from the NLS, and go to http://www.graphicaudio.net , you'll be glad you did. I don't work there, but I love them so much I have to advertise them in every email I send. On Mar 21, 2008, at 7:29 PM, will lomas wrote: but youa re thomas, onlyp roducing this for the minority all the rest of us tom want the 3d game why are you giving into charles let him cry in the corner, see if we care, we don't hands up who gives a toss whether a few peoples' opinions matter? look, all the kiddies raised there hands, we don't. see? we want the 3d game tom if charles hadn't have objected and others this would ahve been the plan see charles, truth hurts but i am right. do us all a favour and unsubscribe as you are just person causing bs for one fella and the rest of us On 22 Mar 2008, at 00:12, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Charles, Thanks to me being a very honest person you wouldn't even have known what the poll results were if I hadn't published them on the list. If I was unscrupulous, less honest, I would announced a totally different out come and you wouldn't have known the difference. As it is I was being honest about the results. It is not that the poll results are unimportant or I don't care what you all think. It is about I have to spend six months, a year, whatever of my life making a game I don't want to create. A game I have lost all interest in, and in all likelyhood never play again after it is finished. Let's put this in perspective. Most of the time I program for fun. I do it as relaxation, for entertainment value, and when it loses that entertainment value what is it? It is called work. It is a well known fact i write these games in my free or spare time. What you are commiting me to is not working on a job, but using all of my free or spare time to deliver something for someone elses enjoyment. Not my own. Now, in return for this game I want you and the rest of the community to use every minute of your family or free time doing home work, house work, tending to other things. You aren't alloud to watch as much TV, read as many books, because you have to do a project for everyone else that gives you absolutely no satisfaction or enjoyment. See how long you last. Charles Rivard wrote: I very much agree. What about those poll results?? The majority wanted a side scrolling
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
charles, this was well thought of. and may I just say that if you put your thoughts in this manner you would have been heard. Look we are all disapointed. Those copywrite issues could have cost the game. At 04:45 p.m. 22/03/2008, you wrote: This was well thought through, and well written. It does bring things into Thomas's perspective well and understandably. I would like a finished game that I paid for, and am very, very willing to pay for future endeavors if I like them. What the 3D engine can produce does excite me. I am willing to wait for the result. I hate to see all his work on this game, or most of it, go to waste, though, not only because I paid for the side scroller, but because he put all that work into it and gets nothing from those of us who paid James North for it. Thomas got stuck with it, not realizing what was ahead as far as production goes. It's a real beach of a situation. I do think, though, that he will get better support from customers if he completes this game, works on Raceway, and produces the 3D games and series he has in mind. If he does, he'll have a win! win! situation. Those who prepaid will continue to support him due to his dedication, and those who haven't bought any games yet will hear about that customer service and be attracted by it. Another question: Have any gamers bought this game after Thomas took the rites from James North? How about them? Thanks --- Laughter is the best medicine. Look around you and find a dose. - Original Message - From: Valiant8086 on laptop [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi. People will like Thomas's 3d version of mota. Not everyone, but by the sounds of all the things that can be done with it those who aren't discontent and maybe even those, will likely find the game a good one. You won't get or shouldn't be able to get Thomas to write a game he doesn't have the urge to write, it's, as he described, like being punished by doing something rediculous, 500 spelling words. Think about it this way. What would you do in Thomas's position? Whether you want or don't want something isn't something you can change, now imagine you spent the last year and a half developing a game that you took off the hands of another developer. At that time, the game wasn't close to publishable. You worked your butt off, you figured out all the code that developer who originally developed the game used, that's not an easy feat by the way, especially because the original developer didn't use very good commenting. This means Thomas had to figure out what the developer of the original uncomplete game meant by calling this procedure in his code, and then he had to figure out what that procedure was before he could make use of it when he continued development, etc. This could be understood to cause many headaches and small progress for hard work. In spite of all this, he prevailed, he up and had a game in beta for the public, a game which me and you downloaded and enjoyed demonstration versions of, he put a game on our computers that we, excluding me, paid for to a different developer. Thomas took that game you paid for and finished it for you, almost. But, suddenly, someone else comes in and asks Thomas questions about his game, stating it had certain similarities to their own game which they had developed and stopped developing a few years ago. Someone whom had him change his game so it wasn't similar to their own, undoing all of that work he went through to get off the ground with This James NOrth's uncommented code structure in the first place, undoing the progress Thomas made for you in the first place. Now he's got to be sick of it. By now he should be making appreciatable progress on the game, appreciatable to himself anyway, however, that progress was stopped and set back by another developer who didn't want him copying their stuff. Now it can be said that Thomas can be understood to have put many hours, probably more hours than I would ever spend on anything, let alone a game that some other developer didn't bother to comment, for nothing, nothing. That developer who had Thomas redo the game undid it and made all that time Thomas put into the game worthless, except for one thing. Thomas is bound to have learned lots of valuable things about coding during the time he worked on Monti that he can now use in future projects for enhancements. However, being set back on a project like that wouldn't make one feel any better about getting it completed, hopes dashed for the developer too. Think about it, those of you discontent with Thomas's decision to drop the project and turn to something different, he's doing what he should do, he's done waisting time and energy, even if from now on he could make progress because he's out
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Sure I don't, but monti isnt castle Wachimacallit, it is monti. - Original Message - From: Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 6:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Anyone who thinks sidescrollers are too easy obviously has no experience whatsoever with the megaman series, or castlevania. Nuff said. - Original Message - From: Orin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. I agree totally with this statement. As I said, we don't need sidescrollers. I've said it in the past. Super Liam is a game that shows us that sidescrollers are: 1. Too easy: 2: No replay value: 3: Too retro (When was the last time a sighted gamer even mentioned that a sidescroller was coming out?) Well, no one did simply because there isn't one, and there never will be. If the sighted people have 3- D games, we should be getting them too. I know people like me who don't play audio games because of this simple factor. A bunch of us have said it before, and I'll say it again since Tomas was the only one that seemed to notice: We have too much arcade games. We don't have a single complex game out there that is challenging and or competes with, Monkey Business. Which is, in case the babies of the blind community haven't noticed, and probably haven't beaten it yet, the most challenging game in the accessible games market today. Now it'd be considered a classic. But Tomas, please just make the audio games market better by making both STFC 2 and Moda 3-D. To get the sidescroller out of the way, slap some code together real fast. If there's bugs? Tuff luck. Also, make it freeware and forget about it. Than you can start to work on extremely hard, and complex games with new consepts that blind people have never sceen before in an accessible game. Orin [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype: orin1112 Do you like mudding? To discuss related topics, go here. http://www.tbmic.jiglu.com Do you like audio books? Would you like to hear them with enritching sound, music and acting? Stop reading books from the NLS, and go to http://www.graphicaudio.net , you'll be glad you did. I don't work there, but I love them so much I have to advertise them in every email I send. On Mar 21, 2008, at 7:29 PM, will lomas wrote: but youa re thomas, onlyp roducing this for the minority all the rest of us tom want the 3d game why are you giving into charles let him cry in the corner, see if we care, we don't hands up who gives a toss whether a few peoples' opinions matter? look, all the kiddies raised there hands, we don't. see? we want the 3d game tom if charles hadn't have objected and others this would ahve been the plan see charles, truth hurts but i am right. do us all a favour and unsubscribe as you are just person causing bs for one fella and the rest of us On 22 Mar 2008, at 00:12, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Charles, Thanks to me being a very honest person you wouldn't even have known what the poll results were if I hadn't published them on the list. If I was unscrupulous, less honest, I would announced a totally different out come and you wouldn't have known the difference. As it is I was being honest about the results. It is not that the poll results are unimportant or I don't care what you all think. It is about I have to spend six months, a year, whatever of my life making a game I don't want to create. A game I have lost all interest in, and in all likelyhood never play again after it is finished. Let's put this in perspective. Most of the time I program for fun. I do it as relaxation, for entertainment value, and when it loses that entertainment value what is it? It is called work. It is a well known fact i write these games in my free or spare time. What you are commiting me to is not working on a job, but using all of my free or spare time to deliver something for someone elses enjoyment. Not my own. Now, in return for this game I want you and the rest of the community to use every minute of your family or free time doing home work, house work, tending to other things. You aren't alloud to watch as much TV, read as many books, because you have to do a project for everyone else that gives you absolutely no satisfaction or enjoyment. See how long you last. Charles Rivard wrote: I very much agree. What about those poll results?? The majority wanted a side scrolling game, which there are not enough of. What will we be getting and why? You were on the right track of customer service. As a game developer, are you going to give us, the majority of gamers who were asked, what we?? want, or what you. want. I realize that you are not making any money from those of us who preordered, but think of it this way: What did we
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
yes, consider the money you got from me for monti as a pre payment for mota 3d. - Original Message - From: shaun everiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 6:23 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. I'd be happy if my money went to the fps game I want to order it and I will. At 12:26 p.m. 22/03/2008, you wrote: hi to be honest if i could i would gt my money back for the side scroller as it has no replay value to me it is boring and pointless too esy to complete, nothing changes it is the same level layout again and again and again, each new successive game that i play so what's the point as i said before charles and others, why don'you all learn to pgoram and then bitch when you can't get what you want or when you are unhappyw ith what you ahve done it is thanks to dinosaurs like you who think you are god, that thomas has to suffer, mental torture by heartless uneducated pricks such as yourself On 21 Mar 2008, at 22:47, Michael Maslo wrote: Willum: You are right but people who are so short sighted and dense don't see it that way. It is supposed to be better and move up with technology and make it more fun and re play value so much higher. Unbelievable. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:gamers- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of will lomas Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:55 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. hi remember, tom is the developer not us, and we can't expect him to do something, he has no desire to do. you ahve beta 1 of MOTA, six levels, that's enough what more do you expect? all the levels are the damn same anyways so please, where's the replay in that? none quit whining the lot of you and be grateful a man here has sacrificed not only his family life but maybe other problems we may not know about, including obviosuly these copyright issues --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
See Tom. That is why I don't promote the pre pay on games. if they have to wait until game is done. You get no gripe or the telling you what to do stuff. Once the game is done. The only gripe you get is found bugs, not it needs this or change that. you also get to make the game your way. Just like the big game companies do. There customers don't even know what is coming out until its out and then its like or not like, but someone will always play it. At 07:37 PM 3/21/2008, you wrote: Hi Yohandy, There is a saying that fits, live and learn. I have done both of those, and taking over someone elses projects is not something I'll ever do again. Yohandy wrote: Thomas, There's a valuable lesson to learn from this. Never again take a developers abandoned project, especially if customers paid for it. The fact that people don't appreciate what you're doing sickens me. Next time say well guys, sorry you lost 30 bucks, but I'm not taking over the project. Sorry if this sounds harsh but it's the honest truth. Those who ordered Montezuma's revenge already lost your cash years ago, and I'm sure James enjoyed quite a few beers with it. get over it people. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tim trouble Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance. --Sam Brown Blindeudora list owner. To subscribe or info: http://www.freelists.org/webpage/blindeudora --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
hay Charles, i never seen anyone on this list gripe over something more than you. If you think its so easy programing games. Get off your perfect English grammar butt and do one! If you can't then shut up and wait for one to come out for play! Tom and the other game devs code a lot into a game. Not talking about a few pages of code. It can take thousands of line of code, and easy to get lost in that pile. you and the others on this list still don't get what it takes to do code. its not poof and your done. You have to right, debug, right, debug and then you may have something to send to a few trusted friends to play with. Then you go through the whole thing again. When the friends find bugs, and it all starts all over again and again and again until you have a product that you the righter likes not the buyer! So give Tom a break. he has already proved that he can bring the game to finish or would you still want your buddy North and like his race way never see it? And even that game is going to be finished! At 08:50 PM 3/21/2008, you wrote: It's not that we don't want change and difficult games. I'm ready for them. I want to experience them. I also want what has been waited for, as promised. That's not too unreasonable. I'll readily pay for a 3D game. But let me see the game I bought first. Actually, it's not myself and Michael and some others that are moaning, whining and so on. We're also not insulting others. We've been pointing out how we feel, what we think should be done, and why, hopefully in a reasonable manner. On the other hand, look at your messages that contain name calling, inept typing whether through lack of knowledge or through carelessness, or anger. Your lack of intellect and flawed reasoning are showing. --- Laughter is the best medicine. Look around you and find a dose. - Original Message - From: will lomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. exactly so he has the right, to make the game how he wants it the side scroller version of montyzoomas is boring. you know what? if i were thomas i'd either ignore you moaning lot amongst us and you have a beta 1 of six highly playable levels, live with it and stop bloody moaning or i'd just close shop and its' all down to michael sarah and the other moaning idiots around here, who don't want change and more diversity oh yes and that has to include charles, of course. yes so what i am flaming big deal get used to it. i am british, with an attitude, and i make my voice heard in this comunity. I am in support of thomas, and it is you moaners who will make him close shop eventurallyw ith all the bs yuc ause him and agrovation. ok, james north did as he was a crook we've all been over this one before guys. but at least thomas cares for us and thanks to you lot moaning, despite the fact you had a paid for beta which thomas had to re-code due to copyright laws, of monty with six, yes six, not 1 2 3 or 4 ut six levels, you are just never satisfied subject closed from my end thanks for nothing. would could have been a cool wicked concept for us for this first game in the MOTA series has been spoilt because mommy threw the toys out of the pram On 21 Mar 2008, at 20:56, Yohandy wrote: What most people don't realize is that they paid for a game James North created, not Thomas. Thomas did take over the project, but he didn't earn a single penny. Who do you think is more affected? Yes many of you lost a few bucks, but Thomas lost much more cash. Just my views. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Or nowadays we have game exchanges, so you trade in what you don't like for something you will hopefully like better. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Trouble [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 8:21 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. you got this backwards. Game devs do right for what they want and not those that buy. That is the first rule in doing any game programming. Do games that you like and would play. there is always people to buy and if they don't like the game. then like with the sighted it sits on the shelve and forget it. Players do not have the right to complain only about bugs in the game. Not in how its written! At 02:38 PM 3/21/2008, you wrote: Hello Thomas! As a developer it is not inportant what you want. It is inportant what the gamers whant.¨ If you also creating a fps style game like tompreyder you're the only man who are happy with that. And you don't earn also mony. If you ccreate a side scroller you aren't very happy but the people are and the people will order the game. You have take the game from james nord as sidescroller, also you musst now complete this game as sidescroller because some people have payd for that game. If you do not so the people have the right for get theyer mony back. But on the other side, i can't understand your situation. James Nord havesayed to you: Thomas, do you want complete my montezumas refrenge game? You ansvered: Yes, i want. Also, you have now take the game and now it is your turn to finish the game as sidescroller. Do you understand what i mean? Regards, claudio. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tim trouble Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance. --Sam Brown Blindeudora list owner. To subscribe or info: http://www.freelists.org/webpage/blindeudora --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
that could be cool. I have not an xbox controler nore want one just to play one game. At 12:02 a.m. 23/03/2008, you wrote: Hi Charles, I think what you are asking for is justified. It is just not something I agree with, but I don't have much of a choice in the matter now that I myself have taken pre-orders. It as you say a matter of integrety and customer service trust. If I lose one or both of those I might as while drop out of making games altogether. Believe it or not USA Games is dedicated to trust, integrety, and honesty. If that image is marred because I thought we could do better by making a 3D game, a game I thought would be a superior product, I am sorry. I honestly did not expect this out rage, this up roar, and out right rebbellion to the notion of improving the game beyond a simple 2D Atari side-scroller. I know where Michael and Tom are coming from. They were not able to play the classic Montezuma's Revenge when it was out so they want something similar to play. My opinion might be tainted from the fact I had my time with those games, when I was sighted, so that first chance to play isn't so important to me. I played pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, etc when they were out and I don't have as much a desire to get the originals, but others who never played them do. While I am thinking of it perhaps I could turn the side-scroller engine into a copy of Pitfall? Pitfall is along the same vain as Montezuma's Revenge and I don't think it would have the same level of copyright issues as Montezuma's Revenge does. Charles Rivard wrote: I'd buy one just to get the experience. You don't know it if you don't try one. I anticipate one. I would also like to receive what has been bought due to advertising and previously done work. I'm willing to wait longer. I don't demand it to be here that soon. I'm patient because I know that it takes time, and I have always said so. To those who think I'm being unfair, I have a question: How is that unfair? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
That's not the point. The point is that you can't just play Monte and then say all side scrollers are too easy. And it's Castlevania, not Castle Whatchamacallit. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Willem [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Sure I don't, but monti isnt castle Wachimacallit, it is monti. - Original Message - From: Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 6:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Anyone who thinks sidescrollers are too easy obviously has no experience whatsoever with the megaman series, or castlevania. Nuff said. - Original Message - From: Orin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. I agree totally with this statement. As I said, we don't need sidescrollers. I've said it in the past. Super Liam is a game that shows us that sidescrollers are: 1. Too easy: 2: No replay value: 3: Too retro (When was the last time a sighted gamer even mentioned that a sidescroller was coming out?) Well, no one did simply because there isn't one, and there never will be. If the sighted people have 3- D games, we should be getting them too. I know people like me who don't play audio games because of this simple factor. A bunch of us have said it before, and I'll say it again since Tomas was the only one that seemed to notice: We have too much arcade games. We don't have a single complex game out there that is challenging and or competes with, Monkey Business. Which is, in case the babies of the blind community haven't noticed, and probably haven't beaten it yet, the most challenging game in the accessible games market today. Now it'd be considered a classic. But Tomas, please just make the audio games market better by making both STFC 2 and Moda 3-D. To get the sidescroller out of the way, slap some code together real fast. If there's bugs? Tuff luck. Also, make it freeware and forget about it. Than you can start to work on extremely hard, and complex games with new consepts that blind people have never sceen before in an accessible game. Orin [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype: orin1112 Do you like mudding? To discuss related topics, go here. http://www.tbmic.jiglu.com Do you like audio books? Would you like to hear them with enritching sound, music and acting? Stop reading books from the NLS, and go to http://www.graphicaudio.net , you'll be glad you did. I don't work there, but I love them so much I have to advertise them in every email I send. On Mar 21, 2008, at 7:29 PM, will lomas wrote: but youa re thomas, onlyp roducing this for the minority all the rest of us tom want the 3d game why are you giving into charles let him cry in the corner, see if we care, we don't hands up who gives a toss whether a few peoples' opinions matter? look, all the kiddies raised there hands, we don't. see? we want the 3d game tom if charles hadn't have objected and others this would ahve been the plan see charles, truth hurts but i am right. do us all a favour and unsubscribe as you are just person causing bs for one fella and the rest of us On 22 Mar 2008, at 00:12, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Charles, Thanks to me being a very honest person you wouldn't even have known what the poll results were if I hadn't published them on the list. If I was unscrupulous, less honest, I would announced a totally different out come and you wouldn't have known the difference. As it is I was being honest about the results. It is not that the poll results are unimportant or I don't care what you all think. It is about I have to spend six months, a year, whatever of my life making a game I don't want to create. A game I have lost all interest in, and in all likelyhood never play again after it is finished. Let's put this in perspective. Most of the time I program for fun. I do it as relaxation, for entertainment value, and when it loses that entertainment value what is it? It is called work. It is a well known fact i write these games in my free or spare time. What you are commiting me to is not working on a job, but using all of my free or spare time to deliver something for someone elses enjoyment. Not my own. Now, in return for this game I want you and the rest of the community to use every minute of your family or free time doing home work, house work, tending to other things. You aren't alloud to watch as much TV, read as many books, because you have to do a project for everyone else that gives you absolutely no satisfaction or enjoyment. See how long you last. Charles Rivard wrote: I very much agree. What about those poll
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
I agree with Sarah on this one. The message yoy responded to is exactly the problem. Regardless of how much you pay for something, you want to get what you paid for. That is not unfair. --- Laughter is the best medicine. Look around you and find a dose. - Original Message - From: Cara Quinn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 3:32 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Okay, his answer may not be a good one, but what about this? For even those who paid for the game; how much was it? Now, you really need to ask yourselves, regardless of those who celebrate the upcoming holiday or not, is this amount of money worth treating someone with ill will? Is any amount? Is this offense so bad that it now becomes your right and earned privilege to point fingers and words? I think that even those who haven't paid for this game will understand my above point. People, please, tell me your better than this? Honestly? I really want to believe you are… Sincerely, Cara Quinn On Mar 21, 2008, at 10:39 AM, Sarah Haake wrote: Hi, well, I think the point is that many people have paid for a sidescroller, waited for the game and there was a poll which showed that the majority wanted it to be as it was. It doesn't matter to me if sidescrollers are old or not. there is no point in saying that this an old style of game when there are still people who want to play this style. And since we voted for it and many people paid for it, I think there definitely is something to worry about. This is no situation where a developer begins a completely new game and people complain because he wants to make a 3D game. This is a situation where many were waiting for a game to be finished and now have to realize that they will not get what they waited for for years, what they paid for. I think that Michael got the point very well here and to say that people should program there own sidescroller is no answer to this situation, because they paid for it and waited for it and it's a disappointment to pay for something and get something completely different in the end. I myself am disappointed now and am glad that I didn't preorder the game, because then I would be even more disappointed now. Regards Sarah --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
You got that right. And as an added bonus both series, at least the NES ones, have darn good tunes. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Anyone who thinks sidescrollers are too easy obviously has no experience whatsoever with the megaman series, or castlevania. Nuff said. - Original Message - From: Orin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. I agree totally with this statement. As I said, we don't need sidescrollers. I've said it in the past. Super Liam is a game that shows us that sidescrollers are: 1. Too easy: 2: No replay value: 3: Too retro (When was the last time a sighted gamer even mentioned that a sidescroller was coming out?) Well, no one did simply because there isn't one, and there never will be. If the sighted people have 3- D games, we should be getting them too. I know people like me who don't play audio games because of this simple factor. A bunch of us have said it before, and I'll say it again since Tomas was the only one that seemed to notice: We have too much arcade games. We don't have a single complex game out there that is challenging and or competes with, Monkey Business. Which is, in case the babies of the blind community haven't noticed, and probably haven't beaten it yet, the most challenging game in the accessible games market today. Now it'd be considered a classic. But Tomas, please just make the audio games market better by making both STFC 2 and Moda 3-D. To get the sidescroller out of the way, slap some code together real fast. If there's bugs? Tuff luck. Also, make it freeware and forget about it. Than you can start to work on extremely hard, and complex games with new consepts that blind people have never sceen before in an accessible game. Orin [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype: orin1112 Do you like mudding? To discuss related topics, go here. http://www.tbmic.jiglu.com Do you like audio books? Would you like to hear them with enritching sound, music and acting? Stop reading books from the NLS, and go to http://www.graphicaudio.net , you'll be glad you did. I don't work there, but I love them so much I have to advertise them in every email I send. On Mar 21, 2008, at 7:29 PM, will lomas wrote: but youa re thomas, onlyp roducing this for the minority all the rest of us tom want the 3d game why are you giving into charles let him cry in the corner, see if we care, we don't hands up who gives a toss whether a few peoples' opinions matter? look, all the kiddies raised there hands, we don't. see? we want the 3d game tom if charles hadn't have objected and others this would ahve been the plan see charles, truth hurts but i am right. do us all a favour and unsubscribe as you are just person causing bs for one fella and the rest of us On 22 Mar 2008, at 00:12, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Charles, Thanks to me being a very honest person you wouldn't even have known what the poll results were if I hadn't published them on the list. If I was unscrupulous, less honest, I would announced a totally different out come and you wouldn't have known the difference. As it is I was being honest about the results. It is not that the poll results are unimportant or I don't care what you all think. It is about I have to spend six months, a year, whatever of my life making a game I don't want to create. A game I have lost all interest in, and in all likelyhood never play again after it is finished. Let's put this in perspective. Most of the time I program for fun. I do it as relaxation, for entertainment value, and when it loses that entertainment value what is it? It is called work. It is a well known fact i write these games in my free or spare time. What you are commiting me to is not working on a job, but using all of my free or spare time to deliver something for someone elses enjoyment. Not my own. Now, in return for this game I want you and the rest of the community to use every minute of your family or free time doing home work, house work, tending to other things. You aren't alloud to watch as much TV, read as many books, because you have to do a project for everyone else that gives you absolutely no satisfaction or enjoyment. See how long you last. Charles Rivard wrote: I very much agree. What about those poll results?? The majority wanted a side scrolling game, which there are not enough of. What will we be getting and why? You were on the right track of customer service. As a game developer, are you going to give us, the majority of gamers who were asked, what we?? want, or what you. want. I realize that you are not making any
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
true, also its actually been a while since the last war. So maybe its just one of those things. I liken this place to a city or another vertual world. So we live in peace for a bit then disagree. sometimes we fight. So I suppose its all relitive. At 01:52 a.m. 23/03/2008, you wrote: Hi Shaun, There is no need to divide the list or break up the members of this list over a decision of weather a game should be 3D or a 2D platformer. We have had worse disagreements than this and survived. shaun everiss wrote: thanks tim, its good that there are those that should really be disapointed that are willing to change. This is the only way the community will go foreward. So because of this I propose a split, those that want to change go to another list, on audyssey.org, those that want to stay with everything as it is can stay here. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hello everyone. I've been following this thread hoping that common sense would prevail and am happy to see somebody like Charles come forward and present the case for those of us who were disappointed in Tom's decision in such a patient and rational manner. Not everyone who opposed Tom's changes did so in an unjust or unreasonable way. It doesn't mean that we're spoiled brats who are upset at not getting what we've wanted. What Tom expected was just unreasonable and unfair to those of us who have both paid for something and been very patient waiting for. What do you think would happen if airline pilots decided to take their passengers to destinations the pilots thought would be more fun to fly to? Florida would certainly seem to be a destination of choice this time of year for people here in Ontario Canada. However, if I were taken there right now, I'd resent it because I'd miss out on the Easter festivities my family and I are enjoying over this long weekend. The pilot who took me to Florida has decided, wrongly in my case, that I'd rather be in Florida since he would rather fly me there. Keeping somebody accountable isn't the same as being a whining spoiled brat. I could just as easily flip that around and propose that this industry is full of developers who, like the pilot who flew me to Florida, have god complexes and presume that everyone should be happy with what they themselves want. We see that many times from people who go ahead and do something they presume will be helpful to us but isn't. Have you ever been taken to the wrong place by somebody who was trying to be helpful but didn't have a clue where you actually wanted to go? I've been late for a couple of classes at university including one where I was presenting due to somebody assuming they knew where I wanted to go. I grant you that the south building of the Erindale campus has far better eating options than the Kanev lecture centre I was actually heading for. Florida has sunshine and inviting beaches rather than sidewalks covered in sheets of ice. However, I would much rather be here now than in Florida and would rather have been in the Kanev centre all those years ago for very good reasons. It's not at all that I don't appreciate where Tom is coming from with this. Quite the opposite in fact. I've often found that projects started out of a simple desire for fairness or from an honest commitment can end up turning into real chores to complete. I'm going through that right now with the guide I've been working on for the past two years. A lot of blind people get personal computers and don't receive the knowledge they need to make effective use of them in their personal lives. In Ontario here, we can tap into government funds to get such computers. However, the training provided leaves many people unable to properly maintain their computers or use them for more than basic reading and writing. The government considers all other uses of their computers such as the Internet, games, online shopping, etc, to be superfluous. People are often left discouraged to go beyond what they've been taught for fear of getting into trouble which they must then pay to have somebody come out and fix. They aren't told of all the accessible games and other software such as Winamp that we on this list largely take for granted. Two years ago, I started working on a guide to try and fix this with the assumption that people already knew the basics of the Windows operating system or whatever system they chose to use and I could concentrate on those areas like the Internet and tuning into Internet radio stations. The guide was much more about making people aware of all the possabilities their computers opened up to them. Last Summer, I took what I had up to a centre on Lake Joseph set up for blind people and consulted a number of the guests about what I was doing. They indeed liked my personal friendly approach to teaching this stuff. However, there was a big problem. Well over half of them would be stuck unable to make use of the guide. They didn't have the basic knowledge of Windows which I presumed they had received as part of their training. They needed to know about how to run programs, files and folders, what the desktop and startmenu were, how to use the control panel, etc. They needed to know how to crawl before they could walk. Needless to say, I was thunderstruck. We're quite fortunate in Ontario to have the funding we have and despite that, people are being left without such basic knowledge. Things are worse elsewhere across Canada and apparently in the US and UK as well. In many places, computers just aren't provided for any kind of personal use. To make my project at all useful to a staggeringly high proportion of my potential audience, I was going to have to give those people who didn't know or weren't motivated enough to make use of manuals and online help a crash corse in using Windows.
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
hi tom any trailers? wow so eht jungle will be i guess, 3d as well? hope it out soon, smile On 21 Mar 2008, at 14:54, Thomas Ward wrote: Hello everyone, Over the passed couple of weeks I have received some inquiries about Mysteries Of the Aztecs Beta 2. I am writing this email in the hope I can answer as many questions at once as well as give all of you gamers an awesome sneak peak into MOTA Beta 2. There is a lot changing under the hood of the new MOTA game engine, and there is a lot of new features coming your way. In addition Mysteries Of the Aztecs is getting an expensive sound upgrade which will make the audio environment sound so much more realistic. First, let us explore the new game story. It is no secret that the Tomb Hunter series is USA Games new line of games similar to the Tomb Raider games produced by Core Design and Edos Interactive. While USA Games is forbidden by copyright law to use the official Tomb Raider trade marks and its leading character, Lara Croft, we hope our Tomb Hunter games will capture the Tomb Raider spirit in all other respects. Our leading character, Angela Summers, is an archaeologist with a variety of Lara Croft style moves such as back flips, jumps, forward and reverse rolls, safety drops, and other skills. In addition Angela is well versed in a variety of fire arms including her trusty 9 Millimeter Browning, 357 Magnum, Shotgun, and the M-16 assault rifle. Our game begins high above the Amazon rain forest as Angela Summers parachutes into the jungle where Dr. Pierre Romo's expedition went missing one year ago. Armed with her trusty 9 Millimeter Browning, two med kits, her laser sight, and an emergency radio she sets off on foot to find the Aztec Temple of death. In the first level Angela must work her way through the jungle on foot picking up gold coins, diamonds, reloads for her Browning, and fend off giant spiders and snakes. Inside the temple proper Angela must avoid several traps including lava pits, spikes, swinging blade traps, pits of fire, and rolling boulder traps. She must also face undead Aztec skeleton warriors armed with bows and spears. Unlike the snakes and spiders the skeleton warriors are much harder to kill with Angela's trusty 9 Millimeter Browning. She must pick up more powerful weapons including a bow and arrow, a 357 Magnum, Shotgun, and M-16 Assault Rifle left behind by Pierre Romo's failed expedition. If she makes it to the end she will face the Aztec King and Queen of death in combat. As stated above one of the major changes in Mysteries of the Aztecs Beta 2 is an all new sound upgrade. I have worked very hard to create or purchase only the highest quality sound effects for Mysteries of the Aztecs Beta 2. For example, Angela's weapons such as the 357 Magnum and Shotgun are pretty true to the actual sound of a Magnum and 12 gage shotgun being fired. I have added in some echo and other special effects to sound as though they are being fired inside a large empty structure such as a tomb or temple. Interesting enough in comparing my shotgun sound to the ones used in the majority of the Tomb Raider games my shotgun sounds are far more realistic and accurate. As someone who thrives on high quality authenticity in my sound effects I think Tomb Hunter is going to be as good as any TR game as far as the Audio environment goes. Taking a look at the new engine there is a lot of changes in game play. I have decided in order to really do Mysteries Of the Aztecs justice I have incorporated the new Genesis 3D technology into the game. Many of these upgrades involves Angela herself. I have been working on adding all sorts of realistic full 3D movement for Angela. When the engine is done Angela will be able to jump, do flips, rolls, turn in place, climb, sidestep, crouch, stand, crawl, swim, etc. While I know many of you were hoping for a side-scroller I really honestly think you will be impressed with the new direction the game has taken. The new and improved 3D Aztec temple will include secret passages, hidden treasure rooms, and a host of new dangers and puzzles to solve. For example, imagine having to climb a rope to a ledge at the top of a room to find a gold key that unlocks the door below. You might have to locate and pull a certain lever which allows a specific Aztec statue to be moved or pushed aside revealing a hidden treasure room behind it. It is these sorts of puzzle elements that draws many sighted gamers to the Indiana Jones and Tomb Raider games. Another aspect is random placement of some treasure and weapons. One of the major complaints I got about Montezuma's Return was nothing was randomized. I have heard your complaints and Beta 2 will have several items appear randomly in rooms. Some items such as gold coins in a hidden room will be static while some gems and weapons will be scattered around the temple
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Two words for you. Sounds awesome. I was hoping for a side scroller since there really aren't tat many accessible ones, but MOTA sounds like it'll be a lot cooler for all these changes. Can't wait to play it. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 8:54 AM Subject: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hello everyone, Over the passed couple of weeks I have received some inquiries about Mysteries Of the Aztecs Beta 2. I am writing this email in the hope I can answer as many questions at once as well as give all of you gamers an awesome sneak peak into MOTA Beta 2. There is a lot changing under the hood of the new MOTA game engine, and there is a lot of new features coming your way. In addition Mysteries Of the Aztecs is getting an expensive sound upgrade which will make the audio environment sound so much more realistic. First, let us explore the new game story. It is no secret that the Tomb Hunter series is USA Games new line of games similar to the Tomb Raider games produced by Core Design and Edos Interactive. While USA Games is forbidden by copyright law to use the official Tomb Raider trade marks and its leading character, Lara Croft, we hope our Tomb Hunter games will capture the Tomb Raider spirit in all other respects. Our leading character, Angela Summers, is an archaeologist with a variety of Lara Croft style moves such as back flips, jumps, forward and reverse rolls, safety drops, and other skills. In addition Angela is well versed in a variety of fire arms including her trusty 9 Millimeter Browning, 357 Magnum, Shotgun, and the M-16 assault rifle. Our game begins high above the Amazon rain forest as Angela Summers parachutes into the jungle where Dr. Pierre Romo's expedition went missing one year ago. Armed with her trusty 9 Millimeter Browning, two med kits, her laser sight, and an emergency radio she sets off on foot to find the Aztec Temple of death. In the first level Angela must work her way through the jungle on foot picking up gold coins, diamonds, reloads for her Browning, and fend off giant spiders and snakes. Inside the temple proper Angela must avoid several traps including lava pits, spikes, swinging blade traps, pits of fire, and rolling boulder traps. She must also face undead Aztec skeleton warriors armed with bows and spears. Unlike the snakes and spiders the skeleton warriors are much harder to kill with Angela's trusty 9 Millimeter Browning. She must pick up more powerful weapons including a bow and arrow, a 357 Magnum, Shotgun, and M-16 Assault Rifle left behind by Pierre Romo's failed expedition. If she makes it to the end she will face the Aztec King and Queen of death in combat. As stated above one of the major changes in Mysteries of the Aztecs Beta 2 is an all new sound upgrade. I have worked very hard to create or purchase only the highest quality sound effects for Mysteries of the Aztecs Beta 2. For example, Angela's weapons such as the 357 Magnum and Shotgun are pretty true to the actual sound of a Magnum and 12 gage shotgun being fired. I have added in some echo and other special effects to sound as though they are being fired inside a large empty structure such as a tomb or temple. Interesting enough in comparing my shotgun sound to the ones used in the majority of the Tomb Raider games my shotgun sounds are far more realistic and accurate. As someone who thrives on high quality authenticity in my sound effects I think Tomb Hunter is going to be as good as any TR game as far as the Audio environment goes. Taking a look at the new engine there is a lot of changes in game play. I have decided in order to really do Mysteries Of the Aztecs justice I have incorporated the new Genesis 3D technology into the game. Many of these upgrades involves Angela herself. I have been working on adding all sorts of realistic full 3D movement for Angela. When the engine is done Angela will be able to jump, do flips, rolls, turn in place, climb, sidestep, crouch, stand, crawl, swim, etc. While I know many of you were hoping for a side-scroller I really honestly think you will be impressed with the new direction the game has taken. The new and improved 3D Aztec temple will include secret passages, hidden treasure rooms, and a host of new dangers and puzzles to solve. For example, imagine having to climb a rope to a ledge at the top of a room to find a gold key that unlocks the door below. You might have to locate and pull a certain lever which allows a specific Aztec statue to be moved or pushed aside revealing a hidden treasure room behind it. It is these sorts of puzzle elements that draws many sighted gamers to the Indiana Jones and Tomb Raider games. Another aspect is random placement of some treasure and weapons. One of the major complaints I got about Montezuma's
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
This is absolutely the most idiotic situation I hope ever to come across in accessible gaming history. Instead of giving us a relatively simple sidescroller already fairly far along in development, Tom has decided to give us a completely different game than what many of us have been waiting for and have purchased. We'll doubtless have to wait a whole lot longer for this project to finally be fully completed stretching things out even longer than the years we've already waited. It would be like me going in to a store and paying for an orange only to find myself carrying a watermelon home since the clerk didn't feel like getting me an orange. We've waited years for what showed every sign of being a very good sidescroller game. A sidescroller is a very different kind of game than a 3d action adventure. I can't imagine the controls for such a thing being at all as easy to master. Nor is the art of navigating at all the same. A sidescroller is a far more intuitively easy thing to get the hang of. Even computer novices can fairly quickly grasp the controls. Even a 2d game like Shades of Doom reaches a point of complexity where I would hesitate to recommend it for novices. Sidescrollers are such a natural format of game for translating into audio. Why is it that everyone feels the need to make all these other kinds of far more complex games while this genre is left so full of unexplored potential only represented by one very basic game? Why can't somebody just put out a decent sidescroller? Doubtless, a lot of gamers will even end up enjoying this creation. I'll even grant you that I am likely to enjoy it. However, what I've paid for, waited for, hoped and dreamed for was a well-designed sidescroller. I already had to accept the loss of an actual accessible copy of a game I've wanted to play since childhood. Frankly, I think Tom has been looking for a reason to basically abandon his rescue attempt of James North's excellent work for quite a while. I'm not even getting a good sidescroller for my troubles. This is preposterous! I've been lead to hope that there would at last be that salvation at the end of the tunnel only to be left completely hanging out to dry. Think about what this does to the whole issue of trust in the accessible gaming community. What's the point of being as transparent as you've been if at the last minute, you do a 180 degree turn and produce something quite different than what people paid for? You could have produced the sidescroller and then gone off in completely different directions with no lasting resentment from anybody. I would have accepted the finished sidescroller and simply moved on with life. In taking your decision, Tom, you throw away a lot of the credability all your transparency has built up. I had very high hopes that you would be the rising star who helped to cary the accessible gaming industry forward. Shifting gears so drastically just isn't the right way to build up a confident and loyal customer base who will trust you enough to place pre-orders. You've certainly lost any lingering trust I had. Everyone was so quick to basically run James North out of town for precisely the kind of thing we're seeing again here. I don't think I'm being unreasonable in wanting something at least a bit similar to what I paid for and fought hard for. Michael Feir Creator and former editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 Check out my blog at: http://www.blindspots.net/blog.php?user=13 - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 10:54 AM Subject: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hello everyone, Over the passed couple of weeks I have received some inquiries about Mysteries Of the Aztecs Beta 2. I am writing this email in the hope I can answer as many questions at once as well as give all of you gamers an awesome sneak peak into MOTA Beta 2. There is a lot changing under the hood of the new MOTA game engine, and there is a lot of new features coming your way. In addition Mysteries Of the Aztecs is getting an expensive sound upgrade which will make the audio environment sound so much more realistic. First, let us explore the new game story. It is no secret that the Tomb Hunter series is USA Games new line of games similar to the Tomb Raider games produced by Core Design and Edos Interactive. While USA Games is forbidden by copyright law to use the official Tomb Raider trade marks and its leading character, Lara Croft, we hope our Tomb Hunter games will capture the Tomb Raider spirit in all other respects. Our leading character, Angela Summers, is an archaeologist with a variety of Lara Croft style moves such as back flips, jumps, forward and reverse rolls, safety drops, and other skills. In addition Angela is well versed in a variety of fire arms including her trusty 9 Millimeter Browning, 357 Magnum, Shotgun, and the M-16
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
I'm sorry is Mota going 3D now? I've been rather ill and missing posts. what happened to complex 2D Mota? has there been more news from tom? I will not comment until I know what's precisely going on. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
dark he sent an earlier message today to the list On 21 Mar 2008, at 16:15, Dark wrote: I'm sorry is Mota going 3D now? I've been rather ill and missing posts. what happened to complex 2D Mota? has there been more news from tom? I will not comment until I know what's precisely going on. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Or perhaps Tom should just forget it all together and spend his time doing something he wants to do. Sorry guys and gals, there's more important things to worry about in life. Darren - Original Message - From: Michael Feir [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 3:29 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. This is absolutely the most idiotic situation I hope ever to come across in accessible gaming history. Instead of giving us a relatively simple sidescroller already fairly far along in development, Tom has decided to give us a completely different game than what many of us have been waiting for and have purchased. We'll doubtless have to wait a whole lot longer for this project to finally be fully completed stretching things out even longer than the years we've already waited. It would be like me going in to a store and paying for an orange only to find myself carrying a watermelon home since the clerk didn't feel like getting me an orange. We've waited years for what showed every sign of being a very good sidescroller game. A sidescroller is a very different kind of game than a 3d action adventure. I can't imagine the controls for such a thing being at all as easy to master. Nor is the art of navigating at all the same. A sidescroller is a far more intuitively easy thing to get the hang of. Even computer novices can fairly quickly grasp the controls. Even a 2d game like Shades of Doom reaches a point of complexity where I would hesitate to recommend it for novices. Sidescrollers are such a natural format of game for translating into audio. Why is it that everyone feels the need to make all these other kinds of far more complex games while this genre is left so full of unexplored potential only represented by one very basic game? Why can't somebody just put out a decent sidescroller? Doubtless, a lot of gamers will even end up enjoying this creation. I'll even grant you that I am likely to enjoy it. However, what I've paid for, waited for, hoped and dreamed for was a well-designed sidescroller. I already had to accept the loss of an actual accessible copy of a game I've wanted to play since childhood. Frankly, I think Tom has been looking for a reason to basically abandon his rescue attempt of James North's excellent work for quite a while. I'm not even getting a good sidescroller for my troubles. This is preposterous! I've been lead to hope that there would at last be that salvation at the end of the tunnel only to be left completely hanging out to dry. Think about what this does to the whole issue of trust in the accessible gaming community. What's the point of being as transparent as you've been if at the last minute, you do a 180 degree turn and produce something quite different than what people paid for? You could have produced the sidescroller and then gone off in completely different directions with no lasting resentment from anybody. I would have accepted the finished sidescroller and simply moved on with life. In taking your decision, Tom, you throw away a lot of the credability all your transparency has built up. I had very high hopes that you would be the rising star who helped to cary the accessible gaming industry forward. Shifting gears so drastically just isn't the right way to build up a confident and loyal customer base who will trust you enough to place pre-orders. You've certainly lost any lingering trust I had. Everyone was so quick to basically run James North out of town for precisely the kind of thing we're seeing again here. I don't think I'm being unreasonable in wanting something at least a bit similar to what I paid for and fought hard for. Michael Feir Creator and former editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 Check out my blog at: http://www.blindspots.net/blog.php?user=13 - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 10:54 AM Subject: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hello everyone, Over the passed couple of weeks I have received some inquiries about Mysteries Of the Aztecs Beta 2. I am writing this email in the hope I can answer as many questions at once as well as give all of you gamers an awesome sneak peak into MOTA Beta 2. There is a lot changing under the hood of the new MOTA game engine, and there is a lot of new features coming your way. In addition Mysteries Of the Aztecs is getting an expensive sound upgrade which will make the audio environment sound so much more realistic. First, let us explore the new game story. It is no secret that the Tomb Hunter series is USA Games new line of games similar to the Tomb Raider games produced by Core Design and Edos Interactive. While USA Games is forbidden
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
but michael side scrollers are too easy, not random and just not worth the money. if you want a side scroller, can't you program your own? i agree though we do need more side scrollers but they are old games we need to be in the 21st century On 21 Mar 2008, at 15:29, Michael Feir wrote: This is absolutely the most idiotic situation I hope ever to come across in accessible gaming history. Instead of giving us a relatively simple sidescroller already fairly far along in development, Tom has decided to give us a completely different game than what many of us have been waiting for and have purchased. We'll doubtless have to wait a whole lot longer for this project to finally be fully completed stretching things out even longer than the years we've already waited. It would be like me going in to a store and paying for an orange only to find myself carrying a watermelon home since the clerk didn't feel like getting me an orange. We've waited years for what showed every sign of being a very good sidescroller game. A sidescroller is a very different kind of game than a 3d action adventure. I can't imagine the controls for such a thing being at all as easy to master. Nor is the art of navigating at all the same. A sidescroller is a far more intuitively easy thing to get the hang of. Even computer novices can fairly quickly grasp the controls. Even a 2d game like Shades of Doom reaches a point of complexity where I would hesitate to recommend it for novices. Sidescrollers are such a natural format of game for translating into audio. Why is it that everyone feels the need to make all these other kinds of far more complex games while this genre is left so full of unexplored potential only represented by one very basic game? Why can't somebody just put out a decent sidescroller? Doubtless, a lot of gamers will even end up enjoying this creation. I'll even grant you that I am likely to enjoy it. However, what I've paid for, waited for, hoped and dreamed for was a well-designed sidescroller. I already had to accept the loss of an actual accessible copy of a game I've wanted to play since childhood. Frankly, I think Tom has been looking for a reason to basically abandon his rescue attempt of James North's excellent work for quite a while. I'm not even getting a good sidescroller for my troubles. This is preposterous! I've been lead to hope that there would at last be that salvation at the end of the tunnel only to be left completely hanging out to dry. Think about what this does to the whole issue of trust in the accessible gaming community. What's the point of being as transparent as you've been if at the last minute, you do a 180 degree turn and produce something quite different than what people paid for? You could have produced the sidescroller and then gone off in completely different directions with no lasting resentment from anybody. I would have accepted the finished sidescroller and simply moved on with life. In taking your decision, Tom, you throw away a lot of the credability all your transparency has built up. I had very high hopes that you would be the rising star who helped to cary the accessible gaming industry forward. Shifting gears so drastically just isn't the right way to build up a confident and loyal customer base who will trust you enough to place pre-orders. You've certainly lost any lingering trust I had. Everyone was so quick to basically run James North out of town for precisely the kind of thing we're seeing again here. I don't think I'm being unreasonable in wanting something at least a bit similar to what I paid for and fought hard for. Michael Feir Creator and former editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 Check out my blog at: http://www.blindspots.net/blog.php?user=13 - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 10:54 AM Subject: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hello everyone, Over the passed couple of weeks I have received some inquiries about Mysteries Of the Aztecs Beta 2. I am writing this email in the hope I can answer as many questions at once as well as give all of you gamers an awesome sneak peak into MOTA Beta 2. There is a lot changing under the hood of the new MOTA game engine, and there is a lot of new features coming your way. In addition Mysteries Of the Aztecs is getting an expensive sound upgrade which will make the audio environment sound so much more realistic. First, let us explore the new game story. It is no secret that the Tomb Hunter series is USA Games new line of games similar to the Tomb Raider games produced by Core Design and Edos Interactive. While USA Games is forbidden by copyright law to use the official Tomb Raider trade marks and its
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hi Michael, I sincerely apologize for the disappointment and hard feelings you have about this decision, but you also need to see my side of things as well. First, I rescued Montezuma's Revenge from James North for a lot of reasons I liked the game, it was fairly along in development, and it looked like it could be completed fairly quickly. As it turned out I took on a project I have regretted every single day of my life since I took charge of it. Montezuma's Revenge has done nothing but bring misery and grief into my life. Right off the bat before I even received the source by mail I was getting hate mail from James North's enemies demanding refunds, a complete game the day before yesterday, and threats of law suits, etc. After I received the game's source code I quickly realized i would not be able to complete the game using his source code. It was written in Visual Basic 6, which I no longer owned the IDE/compiler for, and DirectX 8 which was already phased out of general use. The level editor that James North had created wasn't accessible which means I couldn't even add new levels without a total rewrite. So in the end I chose to rewrite everything from scratch. Not an easy or exactly fun prospect. Around December of 2006 the private testers and I discussed it and thought it would be cool if my rendition of Montezuma's Revenge was closer to the original. It was decided to upgrade all levels to make it so, and in the end it was this exact copying of the game that got me in hot water with the copyright holders. Months later as the game was winding down in development along comes the copyright holders of the Montezuma's Revenge Montezuma's Return games ordering us to cease and desist production of our game. I agreed to do so. I told them that the next major release would have nothing in common with their games, and the issue was closed. As a result of this copyright issue I decided to think about how to rework the game not only to avoid the copyright issues but make a new and exciting game out of the ashes of Montezuma's Return. I did run a poll to see if people would be more interested in a side-scroller or FPS, and the side-scroller format won. However, following the poll I became very depressed, disappointed, and found myself unable to pick up where I left off with the game. To explain it better I was totally emotionally, physically, burned out on working on the game. I spent a year and a half putting every moment of free time into the game, and was totally sick to death of it. Michael, in your email you talk about how Montezuma's Revenge was a game you always dreamed of playing. Well, as a game developer I have dreams too. I have always dreamed of a 3D FPS style treasure hunting game like Tomb Raider that I can play. I discovered through the course of development of Montezuma's Revenge I learned side-scrollers of that era and style no longer captures my attention. I simply grew board with the game, and grew very depressed of having to finish a game I no longer wanted to make. In short I was following someone else's dream not my own. Finally, you brought up the issue of trust. Yes, I can understand why some gamers might compare me with James North, and feel I am being less than honest with them. I am not, and try not to be dishonest with anyone regarding this decision. It is simply I no longer want to create a side-scroller now that I am forbidden from completing Montezuma's Revenge or Montezuma's Return. I just am not up to rewriting a new side-scroller from scratch. The way I feel about it right now is if gamers really really must absolutely have a side-scroller I might as well patch the Montezuma's Return game engine with some patches, create a couple of new levels, give it some lame generic name, and put it out there as abandon ware. Even if I complete the side-scroller game I have no desire to upgrade or finish it beyond what is necessary to fulfill my orders. I just want to be free of this James North and his games business. Sincerely, Thomas Ward --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hi, well, I think the point is that many people have paid for a sidescroller, waited for the game and there was a poll which showed that the majority wanted it to be as it was. It doesn't matter to me if sidescrollers are old or not. there is no point in saying that this an old style of game when there are still people who want to play this style. And since we voted for it and many people paid for it, I think there definitely is something to worry about. This is no situation where a developer begins a completely new game and people complain because he wants to make a 3D game. This is a situation where many were waiting for a game to be finished and now have to realize that they will not get what they waited for for years, what they paid for. I think that Michael got the point very well here and to say that people should program there own sidescroller is no answer to this situation, because they paid for it and waited for it and it's a disappointment to pay for something and get something completely different in the end. I myself am disappointed now and am glad that I didn't preorder the game, because then I would be even more disappointed now. Regards Sarah -- Amicus certus in re incerta cernitur. (Einen sicheren Freund erkennt man in unsicherer Sache.) Cicero --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
hi tom I think that this game will be really cool and I can't wate to play it when it comes out. from Mich. - Original Message - From: will lomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. hi tom any trailers? wow so eht jungle will be i guess, 3d as well? hope it out soon, smile On 21 Mar 2008, at 14:54, Thomas Ward wrote: Hello everyone, Over the passed couple of weeks I have received some inquiries about Mysteries Of the Aztecs Beta 2. I am writing this email in the hope I can answer as many questions at once as well as give all of you gamers an awesome sneak peak into MOTA Beta 2. There is a lot changing under the hood of the new MOTA game engine, and there is a lot of new features coming your way. In addition Mysteries Of the Aztecs is getting an expensive sound upgrade which will make the audio environment sound so much more realistic. First, let us explore the new game story. It is no secret that the Tomb Hunter series is USA Games new line of games similar to the Tomb Raider games produced by Core Design and Edos Interactive. While USA Games is forbidden by copyright law to use the official Tomb Raider trade marks and its leading character, Lara Croft, we hope our Tomb Hunter games will capture the Tomb Raider spirit in all other respects. Our leading character, Angela Summers, is an archaeologist with a variety of Lara Croft style moves such as back flips, jumps, forward and reverse rolls, safety drops, and other skills. In addition Angela is well versed in a variety of fire arms including her trusty 9 Millimeter Browning, 357 Magnum, Shotgun, and the M-16 assault rifle. Our game begins high above the Amazon rain forest as Angela Summers parachutes into the jungle where Dr. Pierre Romo's expedition went missing one year ago. Armed with her trusty 9 Millimeter Browning, two med kits, her laser sight, and an emergency radio she sets off on foot to find the Aztec Temple of death. In the first level Angela must work her way through the jungle on foot picking up gold coins, diamonds, reloads for her Browning, and fend off giant spiders and snakes. Inside the temple proper Angela must avoid several traps including lava pits, spikes, swinging blade traps, pits of fire, and rolling boulder traps. She must also face undead Aztec skeleton warriors armed with bows and spears. Unlike the snakes and spiders the skeleton warriors are much harder to kill with Angela's trusty 9 Millimeter Browning. She must pick up more powerful weapons including a bow and arrow, a 357 Magnum, Shotgun, and M-16 Assault Rifle left behind by Pierre Romo's failed expedition. If she makes it to the end she will face the Aztec King and Queen of death in combat. As stated above one of the major changes in Mysteries of the Aztecs Beta 2 is an all new sound upgrade. I have worked very hard to create or purchase only the highest quality sound effects for Mysteries of the Aztecs Beta 2. For example, Angela's weapons such as the 357 Magnum and Shotgun are pretty true to the actual sound of a Magnum and 12 gage shotgun being fired. I have added in some echo and other special effects to sound as though they are being fired inside a large empty structure such as a tomb or temple. Interesting enough in comparing my shotgun sound to the ones used in the majority of the Tomb Raider games my shotgun sounds are far more realistic and accurate. As someone who thrives on high quality authenticity in my sound effects I think Tomb Hunter is going to be as good as any TR game as far as the Audio environment goes. Taking a look at the new engine there is a lot of changes in game play. I have decided in order to really do Mysteries Of the Aztecs justice I have incorporated the new Genesis 3D technology into the game. Many of these upgrades involves Angela herself. I have been working on adding all sorts of realistic full 3D movement for Angela. When the engine is done Angela will be able to jump, do flips, rolls, turn in place, climb, sidestep, crouch, stand, crawl, swim, etc. While I know many of you were hoping for a side-scroller I really honestly think you will be impressed with the new direction the game has taken. The new and improved 3D Aztec temple will include secret passages, hidden treasure rooms, and a host of new dangers and puzzles to solve. For example, imagine having to climb a rope to a ledge at the top of a room to find a gold key that unlocks the door below. You might have to locate and pull a certain lever which allows a specific Aztec statue to be moved or pushed aside revealing a hidden treasure room behind it. It is these sorts of puzzle elements that draws many sighted gamers to the Indiana Jones and Tomb Raider games. Another aspect is random placement of some treasure and weapons. One of the major complaints I got
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hi Will, Asking someone to program their own side-scroller really isn't a fair solution. However, I completely understand Michael's disappointment. I justdon't have a good solution for his desires and mine. He wants a side-scroller like Montezuma's Revenge I don't. will lomas wrote: but michael side scrollers are too easy, not random and just not worth the money. if you want a side scroller, can't you program your own? i agree though we do need more side scrollers but they are old games we need to be in the 21st century --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hi Sarah, As for the poll I took I really did want to know what the majority of people wanted. However, I have been under some serious stress and depression lately. When I talked to someone about it the person I talked to gave me some very good advice. Yes, I could complete the game as a side-scroller, be unhappy and disappointed about the poll results, and have to live with the fact I made some very bad choices of finishing James North's games. The alternative is to create the type of game I would feel good about, that would be interesting to me, and simply do what I felt best for the game rather than listening to gamers that really don't know what is going on in my life or a thing about programming. In the end I chose to follow my own star. As for side-scrollers vs FPS I do not think side-scrollers are old out dated technology. I simply don't feel interested in creating more games of that style right now. If I have to finish the side-scroller, so be it, but as soon as it is done I whipe my hands clean of the entire business. Don't look for upgrades or a continuation after it is finished. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hi Darren, Oh, how I wish it was that simple. I still feel I owe everyone who paid for the game something, but I am at a cross roads between doing what I want and what others want. Frankly, the old side-scroller was suffocating my intellectual and creative desires that are so important to game writing. If you smother the authors creativity and desire to write the game the game will show its authors lack of desire to create it. I love programming for the very fact I can be creative, but a game like Montezuma's Return made me feel like a kid forced to copy his spelling words 500 times during recess. Boring, uninteresting, work for the purpose of punishment. That is really how I was starting to feel towards the end. Nobody on this list knows how many times I failed to watch a movie with my family because I was working on the game. Nobody knows I haven't played my guitar in six months because most free time has been spent on that darn game. Most people don't know I gave up reading time to work on that game. Frankly, I pored my heart and soul into getting it done, and then I was forced to take it down by the copyright holders of the Montezuma's Revenge and Montezuma's Return copyright holders. How in the heck would you feel? Frankly I am down right depressed and upset about it. If it were my choice to do all over again I would tell James North to keep his games, they are his problem, and let him deal with it. I would now be working on my own games, in my own free time, when I felt like it and not trying to meet some schedule or do date. Darren H wrote: Or perhaps Tom should just forget it all together and spend his time doing something he wants to do. Sorry guys and gals, there's more important things to worry about in life. Darren --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hi Tom I'm right with you on this. You actually don't have to do this at all, so I think folks should be bloody well thankful that there is someone willing to give up time to complete a task. And then, once the game is out, be prepared to be told you're charging too much money. I think I'd be inclined to say, sod it, go and design your own games, my family is much more important. Keep up teh good har dwork. Darren - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi Darren, Oh, how I wish it was that simple. I still feel I owe everyone who paid for the game something, but I am at a cross roads between doing what I want and what others want. Frankly, the old side-scroller was suffocating my intellectual and creative desires that are so important to game writing. If you smother the authors creativity and desire to write the game the game will show its authors lack of desire to create it. I love programming for the very fact I can be creative, but a game like Montezuma's Return made me feel like a kid forced to copy his spelling words 500 times during recess. Boring, uninteresting, work for the purpose of punishment. That is really how I was starting to feel towards the end. Nobody on this list knows how many times I failed to watch a movie with my family because I was working on the game. Nobody knows I haven't played my guitar in six months because most free time has been spent on that darn game. Most people don't know I gave up reading time to work on that game. Frankly, I pored my heart and soul into getting it done, and then I was forced to take it down by the copyright holders of the Montezuma's Revenge and Montezuma's Return copyright holders. How in the heck would you feel? Frankly I am down right depressed and upset about it. If it were my choice to do all over again I would tell James North to keep his games, they are his problem, and let him deal with it. I would now be working on my own games, in my own free time, when I felt like it and not trying to meet some schedule or do date. Darren H wrote: Or perhaps Tom should just forget it all together and spend his time doing something he wants to do. Sorry guys and gals, there's more important things to worry about in life. Darren --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Let's think about that for a second. People are still playing Chess. It isn't regarded as silly or lacking in merit and that game's at least twelve centuries old. As blind people, we have yet to experience a truly good sidescroller despite the ease of this genre's translation into accessible format. Instead of finishing up a sidescroller he already had worked on extensively, Tom's engaging in a far more complex project. Something's just wrong with this picture. Only in this community can things like this go on without repercussions. Sidescrollers don't have to lack randomness. They also don't have to be easy. If they were, they wouldn't have been as popular in the sighted gaming world. And no I can't program my own sidescroller. I would have done that long ago if I had anything like the programming skill required. I'm an English major. My skill is in writing well. One day, I may very well be able to put together a turn-based story-based statistical/random chance resource management game assuming there's a system out there that I can understand well enough to use. Even achieving that will stretch me quite a lot. I'm good at explaining things to people but I can't do that for computers. That's why I'm not making any promises or selling something that isn't ready for sale. Lacking the power to create a good sidescroller myself makes it all the more frustrating when long-held hopes prove to ultimately be false. There's absolutely nothing I can personally do about the situation. Instead of a game rescued from disaster, we have a couple of very bad precedents being set in the accessible games industry. Tom's experience will likely disuade other developers from attempting to bring us accessible versions of classic games. The whole concept of pre-ordering in order to support game creation has also been dealt quite a serious blow here. I'm beginning to seriously wonder whether we've seen the high point of accessible games and the whole industry is on the way down. A lot of up and coming bright spots have disappeared including the man who would have brought us a splendid audio version of Asteroids which is another classic game I would dearly love to play. I can only hope there are some fresh people out there with the skills, sense of responsability and dedication required to keep things interesting. I don't think this community can survive limping along as the odd student decides to do some accessible game or other as a school project. It's great when that happens but they by definition can't put the kind of sustained effort into a game which a fulltime developer or even one doing it as a hobby is able to. Michael Feir Creator and former editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 Check out my blog at: http://www.blindspots.net/blog.php?user=13 - Original Message - From: will lomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. but michael side scrollers are too easy, not random and just not worth the money. if you want a side scroller, can't you program your own? i agree though we do need more side scrollers but they are old games we need to be in the 21st century On 21 Mar 2008, at 15:29, Michael Feir wrote: This is absolutely the most idiotic situation I hope ever to come across in accessible gaming history. Instead of giving us a relatively simple sidescroller already fairly far along in development, Tom has decided to give us a completely different game than what many of us have been waiting for and have purchased. We'll doubtless have to wait a whole lot longer for this project to finally be fully completed stretching things out even longer than the years we've already waited. It would be like me going in to a store and paying for an orange only to find myself carrying a watermelon home since the clerk didn't feel like getting me an orange. We've waited years for what showed every sign of being a very good sidescroller game. A sidescroller is a very different kind of game than a 3d action adventure. I can't imagine the controls for such a thing being at all as easy to master. Nor is the art of navigating at all the same. A sidescroller is a far more intuitively easy thing to get the hang of. Even computer novices can fairly quickly grasp the controls. Even a 2d game like Shades of Doom reaches a point of complexity where I would hesitate to recommend it for novices. Sidescrollers are such a natural format of game for translating into audio. Why is it that everyone feels the need to make all these other kinds of far more complex games while this genre is left so full of unexplored potential only represented by one very basic game? Why can't somebody just put out a decent sidescroller? Doubtless, a lot of gamers will even end up enjoying this creation. I'll even grant you that I am likely to enjoy it. However
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
yes some people are just whining hypocrits desing your own games, those hwo want side scrollers, see how long it takes you long, there's a challenge On 21 Mar 2008, at 18:38, Darren H wrote: Hi Tom I'm right with you on this. You actually don't have to do this at all, so I think folks should be bloody well thankful that there is someone willing to give up time to complete a task. And then, once the game is out, be prepared to be told you're charging too much money. I think I'd be inclined to say, sod it, go and design your own games, my family is much more important. Keep up teh good har dwork. Darren - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi Darren, Oh, how I wish it was that simple. I still feel I owe everyone who paid for the game something, but I am at a cross roads between doing what I want and what others want. Frankly, the old side-scroller was suffocating my intellectual and creative desires that are so important to game writing. If you smother the authors creativity and desire to write the game the game will show its authors lack of desire to create it. I love programming for the very fact I can be creative, but a game like Montezuma's Return made me feel like a kid forced to copy his spelling words 500 times during recess. Boring, uninteresting, work for the purpose of punishment. That is really how I was starting to feel towards the end. Nobody on this list knows how many times I failed to watch a movie with my family because I was working on the game. Nobody knows I haven't played my guitar in six months because most free time has been spent on that darn game. Most people don't know I gave up reading time to work on that game. Frankly, I pored my heart and soul into getting it done, and then I was forced to take it down by the copyright holders of the Montezuma's Revenge and Montezuma's Return copyright holders. How in the heck would you feel? Frankly I am down right depressed and upset about it. If it were my choice to do all over again I would tell James North to keep his games, they are his problem, and let him deal with it. I would now be working on my own games, in my own free time, when I felt like it and not trying to meet some schedule or do date. Darren H wrote: Or perhaps Tom should just forget it all together and spend his time doing something he wants to do. Sorry guys and gals, there's more important things to worry about in life. Darren --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hello Thomas! As a developer it is not inportant what you want. It is inportant what the gamers whant.¨ If you also creating a fps style game like tompreyder you're the only man who are happy with that. And you don't earn also mony. If you ccreate a side scroller you aren't very happy but the people are and the people will order the game. You have take the game from james nord as sidescroller, also you musst now complete this game as sidescroller because some people have payd for that game. If you do not so the people have the right for get theyer mony back. But on the other side, i can't understand your situation. James Nord havesayed to you: Thomas, do you want complete my montezumas refrenge game? You ansvered: Yes, i want. Also, you have now take the game and now it is your turn to finish the game as sidescroller. Do you understand what i mean? Regards, claudio. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
oh man. I don't think someone has done a game for the blind as complex as this. At 03:54 a.m. 22/03/2008, you wrote: Hello everyone, Over the passed couple of weeks I have received some inquiries about Mysteries Of the Aztecs Beta 2. I am writing this email in the hope I can answer as many questions at once as well as give all of you gamers an awesome sneak peak into MOTA Beta 2. There is a lot changing under the hood of the new MOTA game engine, and there is a lot of new features coming your way. In addition Mysteries Of the Aztecs is getting an expensive sound upgrade which will make the audio environment sound so much more realistic. First, let us explore the new game story. It is no secret that the Tomb Hunter series is USA Games new line of games similar to the Tomb Raider games produced by Core Design and Edos Interactive. While USA Games is forbidden by copyright law to use the official Tomb Raider trade marks and its leading character, Lara Croft, we hope our Tomb Hunter games will capture the Tomb Raider spirit in all other respects. Our leading character, Angela Summers, is an archaeologist with a variety of Lara Croft style moves such as back flips, jumps, forward and reverse rolls, safety drops, and other skills. In addition Angela is well versed in a variety of fire arms including her trusty 9 Millimeter Browning, 357 Magnum, Shotgun, and the M-16 assault rifle. Our game begins high above the Amazon rain forest as Angela Summers parachutes into the jungle where Dr. Pierre Romo's expedition went missing one year ago. Armed with her trusty 9 Millimeter Browning, two med kits, her laser sight, and an emergency radio she sets off on foot to find the Aztec Temple of death. In the first level Angela must work her way through the jungle on foot picking up gold coins, diamonds, reloads for her Browning, and fend off giant spiders and snakes. Inside the temple proper Angela must avoid several traps including lava pits, spikes, swinging blade traps, pits of fire, and rolling boulder traps. She must also face undead Aztec skeleton warriors armed with bows and spears. Unlike the snakes and spiders the skeleton warriors are much harder to kill with Angela's trusty 9 Millimeter Browning. She must pick up more powerful weapons including a bow and arrow, a 357 Magnum, Shotgun, and M-16 Assault Rifle left behind by Pierre Romo's failed expedition. If she makes it to the end she will face the Aztec King and Queen of death in combat. As stated above one of the major changes in Mysteries of the Aztecs Beta 2 is an all new sound upgrade. I have worked very hard to create or purchase only the highest quality sound effects for Mysteries of the Aztecs Beta 2. For example, Angela's weapons such as the 357 Magnum and Shotgun are pretty true to the actual sound of a Magnum and 12 gage shotgun being fired. I have added in some echo and other special effects to sound as though they are being fired inside a large empty structure such as a tomb or temple. Interesting enough in comparing my shotgun sound to the ones used in the majority of the Tomb Raider games my shotgun sounds are far more realistic and accurate. As someone who thrives on high quality authenticity in my sound effects I think Tomb Hunter is going to be as good as any TR game as far as the Audio environment goes. Taking a look at the new engine there is a lot of changes in game play. I have decided in order to really do Mysteries Of the Aztecs justice I have incorporated the new Genesis 3D technology into the game. Many of these upgrades involves Angela herself. I have been working on adding all sorts of realistic full 3D movement for Angela. When the engine is done Angela will be able to jump, do flips, rolls, turn in place, climb, sidestep, crouch, stand, crawl, swim, etc. While I know many of you were hoping for a side-scroller I really honestly think you will be impressed with the new direction the game has taken. The new and improved 3D Aztec temple will include secret passages, hidden treasure rooms, and a host of new dangers and puzzles to solve. For example, imagine having to climb a rope to a ledge at the top of a room to find a gold key that unlocks the door below. You might have to locate and pull a certain lever which allows a specific Aztec statue to be moved or pushed aside revealing a hidden treasure room behind it. It is these sorts of puzzle elements that draws many sighted gamers to the Indiana Jones and Tomb Raider games. Another aspect is random placement of some treasure and weapons. One of the major complaints I got about Montezuma's Return was nothing was randomized. I have heard your complaints and Beta 2 will have several items appear randomly in rooms. Some items such as gold coins in a hidden room will be static while some gems and weapons will be scattered around the temple randomly. In short I am working hard to make Mysteries Of the Aztecs the best game it can be
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
hi remember, tom is the developer not us, and we can't expect him to do something, he has no desire to do. you ahve beta 1 of MOTA, six levels, that's enough what more do you expect? all the levels are the damn same anyways so please, where's the replay in that? none quit whining the lot of you and be grateful a man here has sacrificed not only his family life but maybe other problems we may not know about, including obviosuly these copyright issues --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hello Will! Please understand! The beta is free But we have payd for a sidescroller! Yes, we have the beta but that's not enuck!!! what i want is my copi of the mysteris of the azteks and not a free beta of a game that isn't completed!!! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hi Michael, Assuming I were to change my mind and make a side-scroller as you desire me to do you already know I can not and will not create aMontezuma's Revenge clone as per my agreement with the copyright holders. As a result the new side-scroller game would have to have some pretty extensive changes in the game engine. Not only would the engine need some major updates but all6 levels the game engine has would need to be rewritten from scratch. The Genesis 3D technology I am working on is a much more advanced engine and there are features in it that I personally would make the game feel more realistic. For example, in the Genesis 3D engine there is a grip timer. When climbing an object like a rope you have so many seconds to climb the rope and then you begin losing strength points. After your strength goes to 0 you fall to your death. While I could in theory put all of these kinds of features into the old side-scroller engine it might be more benificial to base a game on the new libraries and forget about the old engine. This is more from a technical common class structure for games rather than if I can or can not upgrade the old engine. I honestly had not expected this much of an out rage over this conversion to 3D, but the 3D version was just started this week. It is not too late to go back to the side-scroller, but it appears I am not going to be allowed to be creative or use my freedom of developer expression in this matter. If blind gamers are going to be so demanding on what kind of games I will or will not produce for them perhaps I shouldn't be in this business. Thanks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hello thomas! My question: If you make games where you're happy but not the people, what you have in your hand? A game for you, but not for the comunity. If you make games where the comunity is desinterested you can't earn mony. Regards, Claudio. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hi Claudio, I understand what you are saying. Though it doesn't make me feel one darn bit better. The only thing I can think to do is come up with some generic side-scroller along the lines of a Montezuma's Return game, give out to the paid customers, tell them here you go, and then go on with life. I can clearly see right now the fans of the side-scroller style will never leave me alone, never stop griping, moaning, groaning, and complaining until I do. I am frankly sick of this community. I work hard to create games, and there is always some complaint justified or unjustified. In this case Sarah and Michael are probably right that I shouldn't change the format of the game when I sold it as a side-scroller in December. They are completely justified in their views, but I am just at my wits end of going back and remaking an all new side-scroller from scratch. I will have to think of a new name for the side-scroller as my Mysteries Of the Aztecs story is a good one, and it would not work for a side-scroller. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hi Will, It is quite clear they wanted a complete game not 6 levels. What I will have to do is work on using James North's plans as a template and work from that. His version of Montezuma's Revenge was different in many respects from the classic game and with a new name I suppose it could be published like his game with a new name. will lomas wrote: hi remember, tom is the developer not us, and we can't expect him to do something, he has no desire to do. you ahve beta 1 of MOTA, six levels, that's enough what more do you expect? all the levels are the damn same anyways so please, where's the replay in that? none quit whining the lot of you and be grateful a man here has sacrificed not only his family life but maybe other problems we may not know about, including obviosuly these copyright issues --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Funny thing is Thomas, while I was slightly disappointed with not getting another side scroller since I do agree that this genre does have so much unexplored potential, I'm actually more excited with what you're planning to do. I played Tobraider II on Play Station back when that was still popular and I'd love to see an accessible game in that style. I'd rather have to wait and get an incredible game than have you patch the Monte engine and throw it out as abbandonware and then be bored within a week or two. It seems people don't understand the most basi fact of our market. With as few devs as we have, the last thing we can afford is to turn them away just because a few of us aren't getting what we want. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:38 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi Michael, I sincerely apologize for the disappointment and hard feelings you have about this decision, but you also need to see my side of things as well. First, I rescued Montezuma's Revenge from James North for a lot of reasons I liked the game, it was fairly along in development, and it looked like it could be completed fairly quickly. As it turned out I took on a project I have regretted every single day of my life since I took charge of it. Montezuma's Revenge has done nothing but bring misery and grief into my life. Right off the bat before I even received the source by mail I was getting hate mail from James North's enemies demanding refunds, a complete game the day before yesterday, and threats of law suits, etc. After I received the game's source code I quickly realized i would not be able to complete the game using his source code. It was written in Visual Basic 6, which I no longer owned the IDE/compiler for, and DirectX 8 which was already phased out of general use. The level editor that James North had created wasn't accessible which means I couldn't even add new levels without a total rewrite. So in the end I chose to rewrite everything from scratch. Not an easy or exactly fun prospect. Around December of 2006 the private testers and I discussed it and thought it would be cool if my rendition of Montezuma's Revenge was closer to the original. It was decided to upgrade all levels to make it so, and in the end it was this exact copying of the game that got me in hot water with the copyright holders. Months later as the game was winding down in development along comes the copyright holders of the Montezuma's Revenge Montezuma's Return games ordering us to cease and desist production of our game. I agreed to do so. I told them that the next major release would have nothing in common with their games, and the issue was closed. As a result of this copyright issue I decided to think about how to rework the game not only to avoid the copyright issues but make a new and exciting game out of the ashes of Montezuma's Return. I did run a poll to see if people would be more interested in a side-scroller or FPS, and the side-scroller format won. However, following the poll I became very depressed, disappointed, and found myself unable to pick up where I left off with the game. To explain it better I was totally emotionally, physically, burned out on working on the game. I spent a year and a half putting every moment of free time into the game, and was totally sick to death of it. Michael, in your email you talk about how Montezuma's Revenge was a game you always dreamed of playing. Well, as a game developer I have dreams too. I have always dreamed of a 3D FPS style treasure hunting game like Tomb Raider that I can play. I discovered through the course of development of Montezuma's Revenge I learned side-scrollers of that era and style no longer captures my attention. I simply grew board with the game, and grew very depressed of having to finish a game I no longer wanted to make. In short I was following someone else's dream not my own. Finally, you brought up the issue of trust. Yes, I can understand why some gamers might compare me with James North, and feel I am being less than honest with them. I am not, and try not to be dishonest with anyone regarding this decision. It is simply I no longer want to create a side-scroller now that I am forbidden from completing Montezuma's Revenge or Montezuma's Return. I just am not up to rewriting a new side-scroller from scratch. The way I feel about it right now is if gamers really really must absolutely have a side-scroller I might as well patch the Montezuma's Return game engine with some patches, create a couple of new levels, give it some lame generic name, and put it out there as abandon ware. Even if I complete the side-scroller game I have no desire to upgrade or finish it beyond what is necessary to fulfill my orders. I just want
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
remember, we can'tplease everyone, in the sighted community as well this fact will hold true, as well On 21 Mar 2008, at 20:36, Bryan Peterson wrote: Funny thing is Thomas, while I was slightly disappointed with not getting another side scroller since I do agree that this genre does have so much unexplored potential, I'm actually more excited with what you're planning to do. I played Tobraider II on Play Station back when that was still popular and I'd love to see an accessible game in that style. I'd rather have to wait and get an incredible game than have you patch the Monte engine and throw it out as abbandonware and then be bored within a week or two. It seems people don't understand the most basi fact of our market. With as few devs as we have, the last thing we can afford is to turn them away just because a few of us aren't getting what we want. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:38 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi Michael, I sincerely apologize for the disappointment and hard feelings you have about this decision, but you also need to see my side of things as well. First, I rescued Montezuma's Revenge from James North for a lot of reasons I liked the game, it was fairly along in development, and it looked like it could be completed fairly quickly. As it turned out I took on a project I have regretted every single day of my life since I took charge of it. Montezuma's Revenge has done nothing but bring misery and grief into my life. Right off the bat before I even received the source by mail I was getting hate mail from James North's enemies demanding refunds, a complete game the day before yesterday, and threats of law suits, etc. After I received the game's source code I quickly realized i would not be able to complete the game using his source code. It was written in Visual Basic 6, which I no longer owned the IDE/compiler for, and DirectX 8 which was already phased out of general use. The level editor that James North had created wasn't accessible which means I couldn't even add new levels without a total rewrite. So in the end I chose to rewrite everything from scratch. Not an easy or exactly fun prospect. Around December of 2006 the private testers and I discussed it and thought it would be cool if my rendition of Montezuma's Revenge was closer to the original. It was decided to upgrade all levels to make it so, and in the end it was this exact copying of the game that got me in hot water with the copyright holders. Months later as the game was winding down in development along comes the copyright holders of the Montezuma's Revenge Montezuma's Return games ordering us to cease and desist production of our game. I agreed to do so. I told them that the next major release would have nothing in common with their games, and the issue was closed. As a result of this copyright issue I decided to think about how to rework the game not only to avoid the copyright issues but make a new and exciting game out of the ashes of Montezuma's Return. I did run a poll to see if people would be more interested in a side-scroller or FPS, and the side-scroller format won. However, following the poll I became very depressed, disappointed, and found myself unable to pick up where I left off with the game. To explain it better I was totally emotionally, physically, burned out on working on the game. I spent a year and a half putting every moment of free time into the game, and was totally sick to death of it. Michael, in your email you talk about how Montezuma's Revenge was a game you always dreamed of playing. Well, as a game developer I have dreams too. I have always dreamed of a 3D FPS style treasure hunting game like Tomb Raider that I can play. I discovered through the course of development of Montezuma's Revenge I learned side-scrollers of that era and style no longer captures my attention. I simply grew board with the game, and grew very depressed of having to finish a game I no longer wanted to make. In short I was following someone else's dream not my own. Finally, you brought up the issue of trust. Yes, I can understand why some gamers might compare me with James North, and feel I am being less than honest with them. I am not, and try not to be dishonest with anyone regarding this decision. It is simply I no longer want to create a side-scroller now that I am forbidden from completing Montezuma's Revenge or Montezuma's Return. I just am not up to rewriting a new side-scroller from scratch. The way I feel about it right now is if gamers really really must absolutely have a side-scroller I might as well patch the Montezuma's Return game engine with some patches
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Have you not read all the other posts Claudio? While there are quite a few folks who are disappointed, there are quite a few who aren't, myself among them. And contrary to what you said, the developer's feelings do play a part in game design. If you don't really want to design a particular game you're not likely to do as good a job as you would if your heart was in it. I agree with quite a few people here. We should be bloody greatful that he's even willing to continue work on this projet at all. He could very well have decided to scrap it. We should be glad he didn't. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Claudio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:38 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hello Thomas! As a developer it is not inportant what you want. It is inportant what the gamers whant.¨ If you also creating a fps style game like tompreyder you're the only man who are happy with that. And you don't earn also mony. If you ccreate a side scroller you aren't very happy but the people are and the people will order the game. You have take the game from james nord as sidescroller, also you musst now complete this game as sidescroller because some people have payd for that game. If you do not so the people have the right for get theyer mony back. But on the other side, i can't understand your situation. James Nord havesayed to you: Thomas, do you want complete my montezumas refrenge game? You ansvered: Yes, i want. Also, you have now take the game and now it is your turn to finish the game as sidescroller. Do you understand what i mean? Regards, claudio. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hi, I really don't think it's that we don't want you to be creative. I think what is being expressed is that we don't have many side scrollers. We only have Super Liam as the only truely full-featured side scroller. True, there are side scroller elements in other games, but SL is the only full one. Also, there are the points we have discussed about how we paid for a game that was supposed to be a side scroller. I really don't see how the side scroller concept is crimping your creativity. It is possible to randomize things, make the grip timer, etc. I do see, as a beginning programmer how hard it could be to update the old code to make these things possible, though. I really liked where the original game was going, and would be quite pleased to see a quality side scroller come out. On the other hand, I can definitely see where you are coming from. If you have no interest in creating the game, that will be rather obvious when the game comes out. I personally am slightly disappointed that there probably won't be a side scroller, but at the same time I am very much looking forward to the new game you are working on. I didn't realize how much frustration you were going through when I wrote my earlier post. I like both ideas, but Thomas, do what you feel is right. I am willing to accept the change and go from there. Finally, to those who paid for the game and won't accept that we are getting a 3-d game, think about this. We are going to be getting a lot more for our money, whether you like a 3-d game as much as a side scroller or not, this game will very likely be much more complex, with a lot more content than a side scroller. Karl Original message: Hi Michael, Assuming I were to change my mind and make a side-scroller as you desire me to do you already know I can not and will not create aMontezuma's Revenge clone as per my agreement with the copyright holders. As a result the new side-scroller game would have to have some pretty extensive changes in the game engine. Not only would the engine need some major updates but all6 levels the game engine has would need to be rewritten from scratch. The Genesis 3D technology I am working on is a much more advanced engine and there are features in it that I personally would make the game feel more realistic. For example, in the Genesis 3D engine there is a grip timer. When climbing an object like a rope you have so many seconds to climb the rope and then you begin losing strength points. After your strength goes to 0 you fall to your death. While I could in theory put all of these kinds of features into the old side-scroller engine it might be more benificial to base a game on the new libraries and forget about the old engine. This is more from a technical common class structure for games rather than if I can or can not upgrade the old engine. I honestly had not expected this much of an out rage over this conversion to 3D, but the 3D version was just started this week. It is not too late to go back to the side-scroller, but it appears I am not going to be allowed to be creative or use my freedom of developer expression in this matter. If blind gamers are going to be so demanding on what kind of games I will or will not produce for them perhaps I shouldn't be in this business. Thanks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Wouldn't it take longer to build these features into the side scroller than to just do what you want and create the new game? It seems to me that if we'd have longer to wait for the new side scroller, you should follow your own star and if some people don't like it then so be it. You can't please everyone, and if you tried you'd just continue to be depressed. Personally I want the new 3-d game now that I've read your post about it. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi Michael, Assuming I were to change my mind and make a side-scroller as you desire me to do you already know I can not and will not create aMontezuma's Revenge clone as per my agreement with the copyright holders. As a result the new side-scroller game would have to have some pretty extensive changes in the game engine. Not only would the engine need some major updates but all6 levels the game engine has would need to be rewritten from scratch. The Genesis 3D technology I am working on is a much more advanced engine and there are features in it that I personally would make the game feel more realistic. For example, in the Genesis 3D engine there is a grip timer. When climbing an object like a rope you have so many seconds to climb the rope and then you begin losing strength points. After your strength goes to 0 you fall to your death. While I could in theory put all of these kinds of features into the old side-scroller engine it might be more benificial to base a game on the new libraries and forget about the old engine. This is more from a technical common class structure for games rather than if I can or can not upgrade the old engine. I honestly had not expected this much of an out rage over this conversion to 3D, but the 3D version was just started this week. It is not too late to go back to the side-scroller, but it appears I am not going to be allowed to be creative or use my freedom of developer expression in this matter. If blind gamers are going to be so demanding on what kind of games I will or will not produce for them perhaps I shouldn't be in this business. Thanks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
What most people don't realize is that they paid for a game James North created, not Thomas. Thomas did take over the project, but he didn't earn a single penny. Who do you think is more affected? Yes many of you lost a few bucks, but Thomas lost much more cash. Just my views. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Thomas, There's a valuable lesson to learn from this. Never again take a developers abandoned project, especially if customers paid for it. The fact that people don't appreciate what you're doing sickens me. Next time say well guys, sorry you lost 30 bucks, but I'm not taking over the project. Sorry if this sounds harsh but it's the honest truth. Those who ordered Montezuma's revenge already lost your cash years ago, and I'm sure James enjoyed quite a few beers with it. get over it people. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi Claudio, I understand what you are saying. Though it doesn't make me feel one darn bit better. The only thing I can think to do is come up with some generic side-scroller along the lines of a Montezuma's Return game, give out to the paid customers, tell them here you go, and then go on with life. I can clearly see right now the fans of the side-scroller style will never leave me alone, never stop griping, moaning, groaning, and complaining until I do. I am frankly sick of this community. I work hard to create games, and there is always some complaint justified or unjustified. In this case Sarah and Michael are probably right that I shouldn't change the format of the game when I sold it as a side-scroller in December. They are completely justified in their views, but I am just at my wits end of going back and remaking an all new side-scroller from scratch. I will have to think of a new name for the side-scroller as my Mysteries Of the Aztecs story is a good one, and it would not work for a side-scroller. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
exactly so he has the right, to make the game how he wants it the side scroller version of montyzoomas is boring. you know what? if i were thomas i'd either ignore you moaning lot amongst us and you have a beta 1 of six highly playable levels, live with it and stop bloody moaning or i'd just close shop and its' all down to michael sarah and the other moaning idiots around here, who don't want change and more diversity oh yes and that has to include charles, of course. yes so what i am flaming big deal get used to it. i am british, with an attitude, and i make my voice heard in this comunity. I am in support of thomas, and it is you moaners who will make him close shop eventurallyw ith all the bs yuc ause him and agrovation. ok, james north did as he was a crook we've all been over this one before guys. but at least thomas cares for us and thanks to you lot moaning, despite the fact you had a paid for beta which thomas had to re-code due to copyright laws, of monty with six, yes six, not 1 2 3 or 4 ut six levels, you are just never satisfied subject closed from my end thanks for nothing. would could have been a cool wicked concept for us for this first game in the MOTA series has been spoilt because mommy threw the toys out of the pram On 21 Mar 2008, at 20:56, Yohandy wrote: What most people don't realize is that they paid for a game James North created, not Thomas. Thomas did take over the project, but he didn't earn a single penny. Who do you think is more affected? Yes many of you lost a few bucks, but Thomas lost much more cash. Just my views. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Honestly, from the sounds of it though it would have taken even longer to update the existing side scroller with those features than it would have to write the 3-D game. How hard would it have been to let THomas do what he wants this once and then, later on down the road release a full side scroller.? If you ask me we were darn lucky he didn't just scrap the project entirely. At least he was still willing to give us a game. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Karl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 2:46 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi, I really don't think it's that we don't want you to be creative. I think what is being expressed is that we don't have many side scrollers. We only have Super Liam as the only truely full-featured side scroller. True, there are side scroller elements in other games, but SL is the only full one. Also, there are the points we have discussed about how we paid for a game that was supposed to be a side scroller. I really don't see how the side scroller concept is crimping your creativity. It is possible to randomize things, make the grip timer, etc. I do see, as a beginning programmer how hard it could be to update the old code to make these things possible, though. I really liked where the original game was going, and would be quite pleased to see a quality side scroller come out. On the other hand, I can definitely see where you are coming from. If you have no interest in creating the game, that will be rather obvious when the game comes out. I personally am slightly disappointed that there probably won't be a side scroller, but at the same time I am very much looking forward to the new game you are working on. I didn't realize how much frustration you were going through when I wrote my earlier post. I like both ideas, but Thomas, do what you feel is right. I am willing to accept the change and go from there. Finally, to those who paid for the game and won't accept that we are getting a 3-d game, think about this. We are going to be getting a lot more for our money, whether you like a 3-d game as much as a side scroller or not, this game will very likely be much more complex, with a lot more content than a side scroller. Karl Original message: Hi Michael, Assuming I were to change my mind and make a side-scroller as you desire me to do you already know I can not and will not create aMontezuma's Revenge clone as per my agreement with the copyright holders. As a result the new side-scroller game would have to have some pretty extensive changes in the game engine. Not only would the engine need some major updates but all6 levels the game engine has would need to be rewritten from scratch. The Genesis 3D technology I am working on is a much more advanced engine and there are features in it that I personally would make the game feel more realistic. For example, in the Genesis 3D engine there is a grip timer. When climbing an object like a rope you have so many seconds to climb the rope and then you begin losing strength points. After your strength goes to 0 you fall to your death. While I could in theory put all of these kinds of features into the old side-scroller engine it might be more benificial to base a game on the new libraries and forget about the old engine. This is more from a technical common class structure for games rather than if I can or can not upgrade the old engine. I honestly had not expected this much of an out rage over this conversion to 3D, but the 3D version was just started this week. It is not too late to go back to the side-scroller, but it appears I am not going to be allowed to be creative or use my freedom of developer expression in this matter. If blind gamers are going to be so demanding on what kind of games I will or will not produce for them perhaps I shouldn't be in this business. Thanks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
We only demand what was promised. This shouldn't be too much to ask. Changes due to copyright issues are one thing, a whole new game is another. --- Laughter is the best medicine. Look around you and find a dose. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi Michael, Assuming I were to change my mind and make a side-scroller as you desire me to do you already know I can not and will not create aMontezuma's Revenge clone as per my agreement with the copyright holders. As a result the new side-scroller game would have to have some pretty extensive changes in the game engine. Not only would the engine need some major updates but all6 levels the game engine has would need to be rewritten from scratch. The Genesis 3D technology I am working on is a much more advanced engine and there are features in it that I personally would make the game feel more realistic. For example, in the Genesis 3D engine there is a grip timer. When climbing an object like a rope you have so many seconds to climb the rope and then you begin losing strength points. After your strength goes to 0 you fall to your death. While I could in theory put all of these kinds of features into the old side-scroller engine it might be more benificial to base a game on the new libraries and forget about the old engine. This is more from a technical common class structure for games rather than if I can or can not upgrade the old engine. I honestly had not expected this much of an out rage over this conversion to 3D, but the 3D version was just started this week. It is not too late to go back to the side-scroller, but it appears I am not going to be allowed to be creative or use my freedom of developer expression in this matter. If blind gamers are going to be so demanding on what kind of games I will or will not produce for them perhaps I shouldn't be in this business. Thanks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hey Thomas, I know I'm replying to the same message, but I just had an idea. Were you ever told to discontinue montezuma's return, or simply change the names? If you were just told to change the name, then you can still finish the game. you only have a few levels to go, and your customers will be happy to finally get what they want. whatever you choose to do, you have my support all the way and I'll definitely get your 3D game when it comes out! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi Claudio, I understand what you are saying. Though it doesn't make me feel one darn bit better. The only thing I can think to do is come up with some generic side-scroller along the lines of a Montezuma's Return game, give out to the paid customers, tell them here you go, and then go on with life. I can clearly see right now the fans of the side-scroller style will never leave me alone, never stop griping, moaning, groaning, and complaining until I do. I am frankly sick of this community. I work hard to create games, and there is always some complaint justified or unjustified. In this case Sarah and Michael are probably right that I shouldn't change the format of the game when I sold it as a side-scroller in December. They are completely justified in their views, but I am just at my wits end of going back and remaking an all new side-scroller from scratch. I will have to think of a new name for the side-scroller as my Mysteries Of the Aztecs story is a good one, and it would not work for a side-scroller. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
so you want what's promised? get james north to program it On 21 Mar 2008, at 23:09, Charles Rivard wrote: We only demand what was promised. This shouldn't be too much to ask. Changes due to copyright issues are one thing, a whole new game is another. --- Laughter is the best medicine. Look around you and find a dose. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi Michael, Assuming I were to change my mind and make a side-scroller as you desire me to do you already know I can not and will not create aMontezuma's Revenge clone as per my agreement with the copyright holders. As a result the new side-scroller game would have to have some pretty extensive changes in the game engine. Not only would the engine need some major updates but all6 levels the game engine has would need to be rewritten from scratch. The Genesis 3D technology I am working on is a much more advanced engine and there are features in it that I personally would make the game feel more realistic. For example, in the Genesis 3D engine there is a grip timer. When climbing an object like a rope you have so many seconds to climb the rope and then you begin losing strength points. After your strength goes to 0 you fall to your death. While I could in theory put all of these kinds of features into the old side-scroller engine it might be more benificial to base a game on the new libraries and forget about the old engine. This is more from a technical common class structure for games rather than if I can or can not upgrade the old engine. I honestly had not expected this much of an out rage over this conversion to 3D, but the 3D version was just started this week. It is not too late to go back to the side-scroller, but it appears I am not going to be allowed to be creative or use my freedom of developer expression in this matter. If blind gamers are going to be so demanding on what kind of games I will or will not produce for them perhaps I shouldn't be in this business. Thanks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
I'm outraged! Thomas, keep doing what you do best. Everyone else, cut the crap. Hats off to you Thomas, and I haven't even played any of your games for god sakes! Keep up the great work! Cory - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi Claudio, I understand what you are saying. Though it doesn't make me feel one darn bit better. The only thing I can think to do is come up with some generic side-scroller along the lines of a Montezuma's Return game, give out to the paid customers, tell them here you go, and then go on with life. I can clearly see right now the fans of the side-scroller style will never leave me alone, never stop griping, moaning, groaning, and complaining until I do. I am frankly sick of this community. I work hard to create games, and there is always some complaint justified or unjustified. In this case Sarah and Michael are probably right that I shouldn't change the format of the game when I sold it as a side-scroller in December. They are completely justified in their views, but I am just at my wits end of going back and remaking an all new side-scroller from scratch. I will have to think of a new name for the side-scroller as my Mysteries Of the Aztecs story is a good one, and it would not work for a side-scroller. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ NOD32 2966 (20080321) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
If people have never played a 3d game, how would they know if they'd buy it? I'd personally love the experience. - Original Message - From: Claudio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hello thomas! My question: If you make games where you're happy but not the people, what you have in your hand? A game for you, but not for the comunity. If you make games where the comunity is desinterested you can't earn mony. Regards, Claudio. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
I know rite? - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Funny thing is Thomas, while I was slightly disappointed with not getting another side scroller since I do agree that this genre does have so much unexplored potential, I'm actually more excited with what you're planning to do. I played Tobraider II on Play Station back when that was still popular and I'd love to see an accessible game in that style. I'd rather have to wait and get an incredible game than have you patch the Monte engine and throw it out as abbandonware and then be bored within a week or two. It seems people don't understand the most basi fact of our market. With as few devs as we have, the last thing we can afford is to turn them away just because a few of us aren't getting what we want. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:38 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi Michael, I sincerely apologize for the disappointment and hard feelings you have about this decision, but you also need to see my side of things as well. First, I rescued Montezuma's Revenge from James North for a lot of reasons I liked the game, it was fairly along in development, and it looked like it could be completed fairly quickly. As it turned out I took on a project I have regretted every single day of my life since I took charge of it. Montezuma's Revenge has done nothing but bring misery and grief into my life. Right off the bat before I even received the source by mail I was getting hate mail from James North's enemies demanding refunds, a complete game the day before yesterday, and threats of law suits, etc. After I received the game's source code I quickly realized i would not be able to complete the game using his source code. It was written in Visual Basic 6, which I no longer owned the IDE/compiler for, and DirectX 8 which was already phased out of general use. The level editor that James North had created wasn't accessible which means I couldn't even add new levels without a total rewrite. So in the end I chose to rewrite everything from scratch. Not an easy or exactly fun prospect. Around December of 2006 the private testers and I discussed it and thought it would be cool if my rendition of Montezuma's Revenge was closer to the original. It was decided to upgrade all levels to make it so, and in the end it was this exact copying of the game that got me in hot water with the copyright holders. Months later as the game was winding down in development along comes the copyright holders of the Montezuma's Revenge Montezuma's Return games ordering us to cease and desist production of our game. I agreed to do so. I told them that the next major release would have nothing in common with their games, and the issue was closed. As a result of this copyright issue I decided to think about how to rework the game not only to avoid the copyright issues but make a new and exciting game out of the ashes of Montezuma's Return. I did run a poll to see if people would be more interested in a side-scroller or FPS, and the side-scroller format won. However, following the poll I became very depressed, disappointed, and found myself unable to pick up where I left off with the game. To explain it better I was totally emotionally, physically, burned out on working on the game. I spent a year and a half putting every moment of free time into the game, and was totally sick to death of it. Michael, in your email you talk about how Montezuma's Revenge was a game you always dreamed of playing. Well, as a game developer I have dreams too. I have always dreamed of a 3D FPS style treasure hunting game like Tomb Raider that I can play. I discovered through the course of development of Montezuma's Revenge I learned side-scrollers of that era and style no longer captures my attention. I simply grew board with the game, and grew very depressed of having to finish a game I no longer wanted to make. In short I was following someone else's dream not my own. Finally, you brought up the issue of trust. Yes, I can understand why some gamers might compare me with James North, and feel I am being less than honest with them. I am not, and try not to be dishonest with anyone regarding this decision. It is simply I no longer want to create a side-scroller now that I am forbidden from completing Montezuma's Revenge or Montezuma's Return. I just am not up to rewriting a new side-scroller from scratch. The way I feel about it right now is if gamers really really must absolutely have a side-scroller I might as well patch the Montezuma's Return game engine with some patches, create a couple of new
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Gosh thomas, it's quite sad to see people bash such a kind person as yourself. even through all you're going through, you're still trying to do your best on the game by using your 3d engine etc. if I were in your shoes I don't think I'd be so patient. I'd just slap something together and say ok here's your montezuma's return, take it or leave it. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
stop being a child! and using exclamation points! on every sentence! you paid for the beta! 6 years ago! james north! already took your cash! and enjoyed it greatly! deal with it! Gosh people! think of thomas for once. it's not only about what you want, but what the dev wants as well. Gees some of you must have lots of patience to deal with this griping - Original Message - From: Claudio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hello Will! Please understand! The beta is free But we have payd for a sidescroller! Yes, we have the beta but that's not enuck!!! what i want is my copi of the mysteris of the azteks and not a free beta of a game that isn't completed!!! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
if i were him i'd clsoe shop now as those moaning tossers On 21 Mar 2008, at 21:12, Bryan Peterson wrote: Honestly, from the sounds of it though it would have taken even longer to update the existing side scroller with those features than it would have to write the 3-D game. How hard would it have been to let THomas do what he wants this once and then, later on down the road release a full side scroller.? If you ask me we were darn lucky he didn't just scrap the project entirely. At least he was still willing to give us a game. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Karl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 2:46 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi, I really don't think it's that we don't want you to be creative. I think what is being expressed is that we don't have many side scrollers. We only have Super Liam as the only truely full-featured side scroller. True, there are side scroller elements in other games, but SL is the only full one. Also, there are the points we have discussed about how we paid for a game that was supposed to be a side scroller. I really don't see how the side scroller concept is crimping your creativity. It is possible to randomize things, make the grip timer, etc. I do see, as a beginning programmer how hard it could be to update the old code to make these things possible, though. I really liked where the original game was going, and would be quite pleased to see a quality side scroller come out. On the other hand, I can definitely see where you are coming from. If you have no interest in creating the game, that will be rather obvious when the game comes out. I personally am slightly disappointed that there probably won't be a side scroller, but at the same time I am very much looking forward to the new game you are working on. I didn't realize how much frustration you were going through when I wrote my earlier post. I like both ideas, but Thomas, do what you feel is right. I am willing to accept the change and go from there. Finally, to those who paid for the game and won't accept that we are getting a 3-d game, think about this. We are going to be getting a lot more for our money, whether you like a 3-d game as much as a side scroller or not, this game will very likely be much more complex, with a lot more content than a side scroller. Karl Original message: Hi Michael, Assuming I were to change my mind and make a side-scroller as you desire me to do you already know I can not and will not create aMontezuma's Revenge clone as per my agreement with the copyright holders. As a result the new side-scroller game would have to have some pretty extensive changes in the game engine. Not only would the engine need some major updates but all6 levels the game engine has would need to be rewritten from scratch. The Genesis 3D technology I am working on is a much more advanced engine and there are features in it that I personally would make the game feel more realistic. For example, in the Genesis 3D engine there is a grip timer. When climbing an object like a rope you have so many seconds to climb the rope and then you begin losing strength points. After your strength goes to 0 you fall to your death. While I could in theory put all of these kinds of features into the old side-scroller engine it might be more benificial to base a game on the new libraries and forget about the old engine. This is more from a technical common class structure for games rather than if I can or can not upgrade the old engine. I honestly had not expected this much of an out rage over this conversion to 3D, but the 3D version was just started this week. It is not too late to go back to the side-scroller, but it appears I am not going to be allowed to be creative or use my freedom of developer expression in this matter. If blind gamers are going to be so demanding on what kind of games I will or will not produce for them perhaps I shouldn't be in this business. Thanks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
I'm excited about this new venture, too. However, I will pay for it once it is ready. I'm still waiting for the other one, or something along that line. --- Laughter is the best medicine. Look around you and find a dose. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Funny thing is Thomas, while I was slightly disappointed with not getting another side scroller since I do agree that this genre does have so much unexplored potential, I'm actually more excited with what you're planning to do. I played Tobraider II on Play Station back when that was still popular and I'd love to see an accessible game in that style. I'd rather have to wait and get an incredible game than have you patch the Monte engine and throw it out as abbandonware and then be bored within a week or two. It seems people don't understand the most basi fact of our market. With as few devs as we have, the last thing we can afford is to turn them away just because a few of us aren't getting what we want. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:38 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi Michael, I sincerely apologize for the disappointment and hard feelings you have about this decision, but you also need to see my side of things as well. First, I rescued Montezuma's Revenge from James North for a lot of reasons I liked the game, it was fairly along in development, and it looked like it could be completed fairly quickly. As it turned out I took on a project I have regretted every single day of my life since I took charge of it. Montezuma's Revenge has done nothing but bring misery and grief into my life. Right off the bat before I even received the source by mail I was getting hate mail from James North's enemies demanding refunds, a complete game the day before yesterday, and threats of law suits, etc. After I received the game's source code I quickly realized i would not be able to complete the game using his source code. It was written in Visual Basic 6, which I no longer owned the IDE/compiler for, and DirectX 8 which was already phased out of general use. The level editor that James North had created wasn't accessible which means I couldn't even add new levels without a total rewrite. So in the end I chose to rewrite everything from scratch. Not an easy or exactly fun prospect. Around December of 2006 the private testers and I discussed it and thought it would be cool if my rendition of Montezuma's Revenge was closer to the original. It was decided to upgrade all levels to make it so, and in the end it was this exact copying of the game that got me in hot water with the copyright holders. Months later as the game was winding down in development along comes the copyright holders of the Montezuma's Revenge Montezuma's Return games ordering us to cease and desist production of our game. I agreed to do so. I told them that the next major release would have nothing in common with their games, and the issue was closed. As a result of this copyright issue I decided to think about how to rework the game not only to avoid the copyright issues but make a new and exciting game out of the ashes of Montezuma's Return. I did run a poll to see if people would be more interested in a side-scroller or FPS, and the side-scroller format won. However, following the poll I became very depressed, disappointed, and found myself unable to pick up where I left off with the game. To explain it better I was totally emotionally, physically, burned out on working on the game. I spent a year and a half putting every moment of free time into the game, and was totally sick to death of it. Michael, in your email you talk about how Montezuma's Revenge was a game you always dreamed of playing. Well, as a game developer I have dreams too. I have always dreamed of a 3D FPS style treasure hunting game like Tomb Raider that I can play. I discovered through the course of development of Montezuma's Revenge I learned side-scrollers of that era and style no longer captures my attention. I simply grew board with the game, and grew very depressed of having to finish a game I no longer wanted to make. In short I was following someone else's dream not my own. Finally, you brought up the issue of trust. Yes, I can understand why some gamers might compare me with James North, and feel I am being less than honest with them. I am not, and try not to be dishonest with anyone regarding this decision. It is simply I no longer want to create a side-scroller now that I am forbidden from completing Montezuma's Revenge or Montezuma's Return. I just am not up to rewriting a new side-scroller
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
aussom! aussom! agree all the way! - Original Message - From: Yohandy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. What most people don't realize is that they paid for a game James North created, not Thomas. Thomas did take over the project, but he didn't earn a single penny. Who do you think is more affected? Yes many of you lost a few bucks, but Thomas lost much more cash. Just my views. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ NOD32 2966 (20080321) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Yes, but now it looks as if we may never see that game come to fruition. Personally I admire Thomas. He just might have sacrificed more than any other developer in our market. All that time he could have been spending with his wife and son or playing his guitar or pursuing other hobbies of his, but which he spent coding a game for us. And when it would probably have been easier to just say screw the whole thing, he was still willing to give us something for our money, even if it wasn't exactly what we paid for. All I paid for was a game, whatever its style. But now we may never see that. All I can say is I'm truly sorry it came to this. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Cory [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. I know rite? - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Funny thing is Thomas, while I was slightly disappointed with not getting another side scroller since I do agree that this genre does have so much unexplored potential, I'm actually more excited with what you're planning to do. I played Tobraider II on Play Station back when that was still popular and I'd love to see an accessible game in that style. I'd rather have to wait and get an incredible game than have you patch the Monte engine and throw it out as abbandonware and then be bored within a week or two. It seems people don't understand the most basi fact of our market. With as few devs as we have, the last thing we can afford is to turn them away just because a few of us aren't getting what we want. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:38 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi Michael, I sincerely apologize for the disappointment and hard feelings you have about this decision, but you also need to see my side of things as well. First, I rescued Montezuma's Revenge from James North for a lot of reasons I liked the game, it was fairly along in development, and it looked like it could be completed fairly quickly. As it turned out I took on a project I have regretted every single day of my life since I took charge of it. Montezuma's Revenge has done nothing but bring misery and grief into my life. Right off the bat before I even received the source by mail I was getting hate mail from James North's enemies demanding refunds, a complete game the day before yesterday, and threats of law suits, etc. After I received the game's source code I quickly realized i would not be able to complete the game using his source code. It was written in Visual Basic 6, which I no longer owned the IDE/compiler for, and DirectX 8 which was already phased out of general use. The level editor that James North had created wasn't accessible which means I couldn't even add new levels without a total rewrite. So in the end I chose to rewrite everything from scratch. Not an easy or exactly fun prospect. Around December of 2006 the private testers and I discussed it and thought it would be cool if my rendition of Montezuma's Revenge was closer to the original. It was decided to upgrade all levels to make it so, and in the end it was this exact copying of the game that got me in hot water with the copyright holders. Months later as the game was winding down in development along comes the copyright holders of the Montezuma's Revenge Montezuma's Return games ordering us to cease and desist production of our game. I agreed to do so. I told them that the next major release would have nothing in common with their games, and the issue was closed. As a result of this copyright issue I decided to think about how to rework the game not only to avoid the copyright issues but make a new and exciting game out of the ashes of Montezuma's Return. I did run a poll to see if people would be more interested in a side-scroller or FPS, and the side-scroller format won. However, following the poll I became very depressed, disappointed, and found myself unable to pick up where I left off with the game. To explain it better I was totally emotionally, physically, burned out on working on the game. I spent a year and a half putting every moment of free time into the game, and was totally sick to death of it. Michael, in your email you talk about how Montezuma's Revenge was a game you always dreamed of playing. Well, as a game developer I have dreams too. I have always dreamed of a 3D FPS style treasure hunting game like Tomb Raider that I can play. I discovered through the course of development of Montezuma's Revenge I
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Well, they did pay for a beta. So while they're moaning about it, its not Tomas'es fault, as these people wanted to pay for it, meanwhile the nature of the game was up in arms. I am really mad, Thomas you were such a great dev, and to have people bash you around like that, well, that just angers me. You had great potensial and I cou ld see that you enjoyed your work. Like countless have said, its really too bad its come to this. I bet most people are regretting what they said about now, or maybe not. Have a good day from Tyler C. Wood! contact details: email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: the_conman283 system details: Hp pavillion dv5220CA notebook pc AMD Turion(tm) 64 Mobile Technology ML-37 2.0 GHZ, 2512 mb DDR ram( hopefully!), Fujitsu 100 gb 4500 RPM Hard Drive - Original Message - From: will lomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. or jsut ingore the people who want side scroller and they can program their own game for their own enjoyment On 21 Mar 2008, at 21:19, Yohandy wrote: Gosh thomas, it's quite sad to see people bash such a kind person as yourself. even through all you're going through, you're still trying to do your best on the game by using your 3d engine etc. if I were in your shoes I don't think I'd be so patient. I'd just slap something together and say ok here's your montezuma's return, take it or leave it. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 20/03/2008 8:10 PM --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Well it looks like you'll get your wish. The rest of us just won't get ours. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. I'm excited about this new venture, too. However, I will pay for it once it is ready. I'm still waiting for the other one, or something along that line. --- Laughter is the best medicine. Look around you and find a dose. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Funny thing is Thomas, while I was slightly disappointed with not getting another side scroller since I do agree that this genre does have so much unexplored potential, I'm actually more excited with what you're planning to do. I played Tobraider II on Play Station back when that was still popular and I'd love to see an accessible game in that style. I'd rather have to wait and get an incredible game than have you patch the Monte engine and throw it out as abbandonware and then be bored within a week or two. It seems people don't understand the most basi fact of our market. With as few devs as we have, the last thing we can afford is to turn them away just because a few of us aren't getting what we want. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:38 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi Michael, I sincerely apologize for the disappointment and hard feelings you have about this decision, but you also need to see my side of things as well. First, I rescued Montezuma's Revenge from James North for a lot of reasons I liked the game, it was fairly along in development, and it looked like it could be completed fairly quickly. As it turned out I took on a project I have regretted every single day of my life since I took charge of it. Montezuma's Revenge has done nothing but bring misery and grief into my life. Right off the bat before I even received the source by mail I was getting hate mail from James North's enemies demanding refunds, a complete game the day before yesterday, and threats of law suits, etc. After I received the game's source code I quickly realized i would not be able to complete the game using his source code. It was written in Visual Basic 6, which I no longer owned the IDE/compiler for, and DirectX 8 which was already phased out of general use. The level editor that James North had created wasn't accessible which means I couldn't even add new levels without a total rewrite. So in the end I chose to rewrite everything from scratch. Not an easy or exactly fun prospect. Around December of 2006 the private testers and I discussed it and thought it would be cool if my rendition of Montezuma's Revenge was closer to the original. It was decided to upgrade all levels to make it so, and in the end it was this exact copying of the game that got me in hot water with the copyright holders. Months later as the game was winding down in development along comes the copyright holders of the Montezuma's Revenge Montezuma's Return games ordering us to cease and desist production of our game. I agreed to do so. I told them that the next major release would have nothing in common with their games, and the issue was closed. As a result of this copyright issue I decided to think about how to rework the game not only to avoid the copyright issues but make a new and exciting game out of the ashes of Montezuma's Return. I did run a poll to see if people would be more interested in a side-scroller or FPS, and the side-scroller format won. However, following the poll I became very depressed, disappointed, and found myself unable to pick up where I left off with the game. To explain it better I was totally emotionally, physically, burned out on working on the game. I spent a year and a half putting every moment of free time into the game, and was totally sick to death of it. Michael, in your email you talk about how Montezuma's Revenge was a game you always dreamed of playing. Well, as a game developer I have dreams too. I have always dreamed of a 3D FPS style treasure hunting game like Tomb Raider that I can play. I discovered through the course of development of Montezuma's Revenge I learned side-scrollers of that era and style no longer captures my attention. I simply grew board with the game, and grew very depressed of having to finish a game I no longer wanted to make. In short I was following someone else's dream not my own. Finally, you brought up the issue of trust. Yes, I can understand why some gamers might compare
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
or jsut ingore the people who want side scroller and they can program their own game for their own enjoyment On 21 Mar 2008, at 21:19, Yohandy wrote: Gosh thomas, it's quite sad to see people bash such a kind person as yourself. even through all you're going through, you're still trying to do your best on the game by using your 3d engine etc. if I were in your shoes I don't think I'd be so patient. I'd just slap something together and say ok here's your montezuma's return, take it or leave it. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Yeah. I agree here. Its really sad, and hopefully Thomas will change his mind. Have a good day from Tyler C. Wood! contact details: email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: the_conman283 system details: Hp pavillion dv5220CA notebook pc AMD Turion(tm) 64 Mobile Technology ML-37 2.0 GHZ, 2512 mb DDR ram( hopefully!), Fujitsu 100 gb 4500 RPM Hard Drive - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles Rivard [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Well it looks like you'll get your wish. The rest of us just won't get ours. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. I'm excited about this new venture, too. However, I will pay for it once it is ready. I'm still waiting for the other one, or something along that line. --- Laughter is the best medicine. Look around you and find a dose. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Funny thing is Thomas, while I was slightly disappointed with not getting another side scroller since I do agree that this genre does have so much unexplored potential, I'm actually more excited with what you're planning to do. I played Tobraider II on Play Station back when that was still popular and I'd love to see an accessible game in that style. I'd rather have to wait and get an incredible game than have you patch the Monte engine and throw it out as abbandonware and then be bored within a week or two. It seems people don't understand the most basi fact of our market. With as few devs as we have, the last thing we can afford is to turn them away just because a few of us aren't getting what we want. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:38 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi Michael, I sincerely apologize for the disappointment and hard feelings you have about this decision, but you also need to see my side of things as well. First, I rescued Montezuma's Revenge from James North for a lot of reasons I liked the game, it was fairly along in development, and it looked like it could be completed fairly quickly. As it turned out I took on a project I have regretted every single day of my life since I took charge of it. Montezuma's Revenge has done nothing but bring misery and grief into my life. Right off the bat before I even received the source by mail I was getting hate mail from James North's enemies demanding refunds, a complete game the day before yesterday, and threats of law suits, etc. After I received the game's source code I quickly realized i would not be able to complete the game using his source code. It was written in Visual Basic 6, which I no longer owned the IDE/compiler for, and DirectX 8 which was already phased out of general use. The level editor that James North had created wasn't accessible which means I couldn't even add new levels without a total rewrite. So in the end I chose to rewrite everything from scratch. Not an easy or exactly fun prospect. Around December of 2006 the private testers and I discussed it and thought it would be cool if my rendition of Montezuma's Revenge was closer to the original. It was decided to upgrade all levels to make it so, and in the end it was this exact copying of the game that got me in hot water with the copyright holders. Months later as the game was winding down in development along comes the copyright holders of the Montezuma's Revenge Montezuma's Return games ordering us to cease and desist production of our game. I agreed to do so. I told them that the next major release would have nothing in common with their games, and the issue was closed. As a result of this copyright issue I decided to think about how to rework the game not only to avoid the copyright issues but make a new and exciting game out of the ashes of Montezuma's Return. I did run a poll to see if people would be more interested in a side-scroller or FPS, and the side-scroller format won. However, following the poll I became very depressed, disappointed, and found myself unable to pick up where I left off with the game. To explain it better I was totally emotionally, physically, burned out on working on the game. I spent a year and a half putting every moment of free time into the game, and was totally sick to death of it. Michael, in your email you talk
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hi Claudio, I'd like to answer your questions with a few questions of my own. First, how do you know everyone will be disinterested in the game? Like a book you won't know if you like or dislike it until you have read it or played it. There are a few members on list interested in a 3D version, and some that are holy against it. Second, how do you know a game enjoyable to me won't be enjoyable to others? Again using the book example the author of the book doesn't get end reader feedback how to write that book, story, etc but the readers who get it enjoy it or hate it based on what they read. Same applies to games. Third, how many game companies you know of like Lucas Arts, Activision, Core Design, Edos Interactive, etc ask their customers what they want? Answer is none. They write it the way they want to design it, and the customers judge the game based on what they get. Like it or lump it. Claudio wrote: Hello thomas! My question: If you make games where you're happy but not the people, what you have in your hand? A game for you, but not for the comunity. If you make games where the comunity is desinterested you can't earn mony. Regards, Claudio. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
lol! So you're saying the comunity isn't interested? You are so wrong. - Original Message - From: Claudio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 9:47 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hello thomas! My question: If you make games where you're happy but not the people, what you have in your hand? A game for you, but not for the comunity. If you make games where the comunity is desinterested you can't earn mony. Regards, Claudio. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
to live during the development. TToo many self sentered people in the world, I know I'm one. However, I wouldn't be disappointed if Thomas did this after I'd paid for Monti, for two reasons, 1. I'd also be content playing the 3d version of mota, 2. I'd see this situation from Thomas's point of view as soon as I heard that He had been forced to undo a large portion of the development he had just been about to be able to stand up and stretch and say he had completed, except, you never complete a programming project. Now I can't say anyone's self sentered in this situation, because they did pay money for what they wanted, but I can still feel that way. Do your good deed for the year, or all of your life, what ever in letting this particular project go in it's new direction. Someone sometime in the future will come up with another good side scroller, who knows, it might be me, or it might not. As for games mirroring those available to sighted people? I never did cair about that, as long as I had some good games to play, and I do have some good games to play. Original Message - From: Claudio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hello thomas! My question: If you make games where you're happy but not the people, what you have in your hand? A game for you, but not for the comunity. If you make games where the comunity is desinterested you can't earn mony. Regards, Claudio. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
you know how fucked up that is. By By to accessible games! - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles Rivard [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Well it looks like you'll get your wish. The rest of us just won't get ours. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. I'm excited about this new venture, too. However, I will pay for it once it is ready. I'm still waiting for the other one, or something along that line. --- Laughter is the best medicine. Look around you and find a dose. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Funny thing is Thomas, while I was slightly disappointed with not getting another side scroller since I do agree that this genre does have so much unexplored potential, I'm actually more excited with what you're planning to do. I played Tobraider II on Play Station back when that was still popular and I'd love to see an accessible game in that style. I'd rather have to wait and get an incredible game than have you patch the Monte engine and throw it out as abbandonware and then be bored within a week or two. It seems people don't understand the most basi fact of our market. With as few devs as we have, the last thing we can afford is to turn them away just because a few of us aren't getting what we want. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:38 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi Michael, I sincerely apologize for the disappointment and hard feelings you have about this decision, but you also need to see my side of things as well. First, I rescued Montezuma's Revenge from James North for a lot of reasons I liked the game, it was fairly along in development, and it looked like it could be completed fairly quickly. As it turned out I took on a project I have regretted every single day of my life since I took charge of it. Montezuma's Revenge has done nothing but bring misery and grief into my life. Right off the bat before I even received the source by mail I was getting hate mail from James North's enemies demanding refunds, a complete game the day before yesterday, and threats of law suits, etc. After I received the game's source code I quickly realized i would not be able to complete the game using his source code. It was written in Visual Basic 6, which I no longer owned the IDE/compiler for, and DirectX 8 which was already phased out of general use. The level editor that James North had created wasn't accessible which means I couldn't even add new levels without a total rewrite. So in the end I chose to rewrite everything from scratch. Not an easy or exactly fun prospect. Around December of 2006 the private testers and I discussed it and thought it would be cool if my rendition of Montezuma's Revenge was closer to the original. It was decided to upgrade all levels to make it so, and in the end it was this exact copying of the game that got me in hot water with the copyright holders. Months later as the game was winding down in development along comes the copyright holders of the Montezuma's Revenge Montezuma's Return games ordering us to cease and desist production of our game. I agreed to do so. I told them that the next major release would have nothing in common with their games, and the issue was closed. As a result of this copyright issue I decided to think about how to rework the game not only to avoid the copyright issues but make a new and exciting game out of the ashes of Montezuma's Return. I did run a poll to see if people would be more interested in a side-scroller or FPS, and the side-scroller format won. However, following the poll I became very depressed, disappointed, and found myself unable to pick up where I left off with the game. To explain it better I was totally emotionally, physically, burned out on working on the game. I spent a year and a half putting every moment of free time into the game, and was totally sick to death of it. Michael, in your email you talk about how Montezuma's Revenge was a game you always dreamed of playing. Well, as a game developer I have dreams too. I have always dreamed of a 3D FPS style treasure hunting game like Tomb Raider that I can play. I discovered through the course of development of Montezuma's Revenge I learned side-scrollers
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Actually, why can't we have the new game as well as the old. The old is first finished, then comes the new. I'm excited about both, and I don't see why they can't coexist. I support Thomas in his creation of the 3D game, but all in good time. Complete one project that has long been waited for, then work on the next. Get one game out of the way, be done with it, then work on what's in the future. If a game is half completed, and it was paid for, crank it out, fine tune it through beta testing, and distribute it. Gamers who have not bought it yet just might do so, and those who have already bought it get what they paid for. And, hopefully, all supportive gamers will continue to be supportive based on this course of action, as he will be aiming to please the paying customers. I am open to how my thoughts are unreasonable. I don't expect the game to be out in a day, a week, a month, or any designated time. As long as it is still being worked on, and effort is made to get it to those of us who are willing to wait, that's fine. But to seemingly drop it in midproduction is not the right way to go. --- Laughter is the best medicine. Look around you and find a dose. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:54 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Wouldn't it take longer to build these features into the side scroller than to just do what you want and create the new game? It seems to me that if we'd have longer to wait for the new side scroller, you should follow your own star and if some people don't like it then so be it. You can't please everyone, and if you tried you'd just continue to be depressed. Personally I want the new 3-d game now that I've read your post about it. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi Michael, Assuming I were to change my mind and make a side-scroller as you desire me to do you already know I can not and will not create aMontezuma's Revenge clone as per my agreement with the copyright holders. As a result the new side-scroller game would have to have some pretty extensive changes in the game engine. Not only would the engine need some major updates but all6 levels the game engine has would need to be rewritten from scratch. The Genesis 3D technology I am working on is a much more advanced engine and there are features in it that I personally would make the game feel more realistic. For example, in the Genesis 3D engine there is a grip timer. When climbing an object like a rope you have so many seconds to climb the rope and then you begin losing strength points. After your strength goes to 0 you fall to your death. While I could in theory put all of these kinds of features into the old side-scroller engine it might be more benificial to base a game on the new libraries and forget about the old engine. This is more from a technical common class structure for games rather than if I can or can not upgrade the old engine. I honestly had not expected this much of an out rage over this conversion to 3D, but the 3D version was just started this week. It is not too late to go back to the side-scroller, but it appears I am not going to be allowed to be creative or use my freedom of developer expression in this matter. If blind gamers are going to be so demanding on what kind of games I will or will not produce for them perhaps I shouldn't be in this business. Thanks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hi Yohandy, There is a saying that fits, live and learn. I have done both of those, and taking over someone elses projects is not something I'll ever do again. Yohandy wrote: Thomas, There's a valuable lesson to learn from this. Never again take a developers abandoned project, especially if customers paid for it. The fact that people don't appreciate what you're doing sickens me. Next time say well guys, sorry you lost 30 bucks, but I'm not taking over the project. Sorry if this sounds harsh but it's the honest truth. Those who ordered Montezuma's revenge already lost your cash years ago, and I'm sure James enjoyed quite a few beers with it. get over it people. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hi Claudio, Well, you will get a side-scroller of some kind but it won't be Mysteries Of the Aztecs. Since the majority on here want Montezuma's Revenge that is what they get. Original mail character and all.Let us face it I am sick of the game, and I will just finish it the way James was going to do it, and that will be the end of it. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
humans and humans live lives, and the smart humans live lives the way the want to, I know I do. Have some mercy and let this particular hitch slide, you'll still get a game for your money, and, on top of that, the developer of this particular game will be living the kind of life they want to live during the development. TToo many self sentered people in the world, I know I'm one. However, I wouldn't be disappointed if Thomas did this after I'd paid for Monti, for two reasons, 1. I'd also be content playing the 3d version of mota, 2. I'd see this situation from Thomas's point of view as soon as I heard that He had been forced to undo a large portion of the development he had just been about to be able to stand up and stretch and say he had completed, except, you never complete a programming project. Now I can't say anyone's self sentered in this situation, because they did pay money for what they wanted, but I can still feel that way. Do your good deed for the year, or all of your life, what ever in letting this particular project go in it's new direction. Someone sometime in the future will come up with another good side scroller, who knows, it might be me, or it might not. As for games mirroring those available to sighted people? I never did cair about that, as long as I had some good games to play, and I do have some good games to play. Original Message - From: Claudio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hello thomas! My question: If you make games where you're happy but not the people, what you have in your hand? A game for you, but not for the comunity. If you make games where the comunity is desinterested you can't earn mony. Regards, Claudio. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
I support Tom also and I live in the United States. Flaring? What for? We have a right to voice our opinion. Because of a very small majority we may lose a great game for a pathetic boring game. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of will lomas Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 4:13 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. exactly so he has the right, to make the game how he wants it the side scroller version of montyzoomas is boring. you know what? if i were thomas i'd either ignore you moaning lot amongst us and you have a beta 1 of six highly playable levels, live with it and stop bloody moaning or i'd just close shop and its' all down to michael sarah and the other moaning idiots around here, who don't want change and more diversity oh yes and that has to include charles, of course. yes so what i am flaming big deal get used to it. i am british, with an attitude, and i make my voice heard in this comunity. I am in support of thomas, and it is you moaners who will make him close shop eventurallyw ith all the bs yuc ause him and agrovation. ok, james north did as he was a crook we've all been over this one before guys. but at least thomas cares for us and thanks to you lot moaning, despite the fact you had a paid for beta which thomas had to re-code due to copyright laws, of monty with six, yes six, not 1 2 3 or 4 ut six levels, you are just never satisfied subject closed from my end thanks for nothing. would could have been a cool wicked concept for us for this first game in the MOTA series has been spoilt because mommy threw the toys out of the pram On 21 Mar 2008, at 20:56, Yohandy wrote: What most people don't realize is that they paid for a game James North created, not Thomas. Thomas did take over the project, but he didn't earn a single penny. Who do you think is more affected? Yes many of you lost a few bucks, but Thomas lost much more cash. Just my views. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
it is only you though and a few others wanting the side scroller not a unanymous decision from everyone here On 22 Mar 2008, at 00:30, Charles Rivard wrote: Actually, why can't we have the new game as well as the old. The old is first finished, then comes the new. I'm excited about both, and I don't see why they can't coexist. I support Thomas in his creation of the 3D game, but all in good time. Complete one project that has long been waited for, then work on the next. Get one game out of the way, be done with it, then work on what's in the future. If a game is half completed, and it was paid for, crank it out, fine tune it through beta testing, and distribute it. Gamers who have not bought it yet just might do so, and those who have already bought it get what they paid for. And, hopefully, all supportive gamers will continue to be supportive based on this course of action, as he will be aiming to please the paying customers. I am open to how my thoughts are unreasonable. I don't expect the game to be out in a day, a week, a month, or any designated time. As long as it is still being worked on, and effort is made to get it to those of us who are willing to wait, that's fine. But to seemingly drop it in midproduction is not the right way to go. --- Laughter is the best medicine. Look around you and find a dose. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:54 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Wouldn't it take longer to build these features into the side scroller than to just do what you want and create the new game? It seems to me that if we'd have longer to wait for the new side scroller, you should follow your own star and if some people don't like it then so be it. You can't please everyone, and if you tried you'd just continue to be depressed. Personally I want the new 3-d game now that I've read your post about it. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi Michael, Assuming I were to change my mind and make a side-scroller as you desire me to do you already know I can not and will not create aMontezuma's Revenge clone as per my agreement with the copyright holders. As a result the new side-scroller game would have to have some pretty extensive changes in the game engine. Not only would the engine need some major updates but all6 levels the game engine has would need to be rewritten from scratch. The Genesis 3D technology I am working on is a much more advanced engine and there are features in it that I personally would make the game feel more realistic. For example, in the Genesis 3D engine there is a grip timer. When climbing an object like a rope you have so many seconds to climb the rope and then you begin losing strength points. After your strength goes to 0 you fall to your death. While I could in theory put all of these kinds of features into the old side-scroller engine it might be more benificial to base a game on the new libraries and forget about the old engine. This is more from a technical common class structure for games rather than if I can or can not upgrade the old engine. I honestly had not expected this much of an out rage over this conversion to 3D, but the 3D version was just started this week. It is not too late to go back to the side-scroller, but it appears I am not going to be allowed to be creative or use my freedom of developer expression in this matter. If blind gamers are going to be so demanding on what kind of games I will or will not produce for them perhaps I shouldn't be in this business. Thanks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Tom, I can tell your frustration and it must be hard on you hearing this BS. But take it easy on yourself. Don't worry about what people say just follow your dream not others dreams. After all your the owner of your own dreams. Jose Lomeli Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] System: Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition Version 2002 Service Pack 2 Manufactured and supported by: Dell Latitude D630 Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T7100 @ 1.80GHz 1.79 GHz, 0.99 GB of RAM - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 11:38 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi Michael, I sincerely apologize for the disappointment and hard feelings you have about this decision, but you also need to see my side of things as well. First, I rescued Montezuma's Revenge from James North for a lot of reasons I liked the game, it was fairly along in development, and it looked like it could be completed fairly quickly. As it turned out I took on a project I have regretted every single day of my life since I took charge of it. Montezuma's Revenge has done nothing but bring misery and grief into my life. Right off the bat before I even received the source by mail I was getting hate mail from James North's enemies demanding refunds, a complete game the day before yesterday, and threats of law suits, etc. After I received the game's source code I quickly realized i would not be able to complete the game using his source code. It was written in Visual Basic 6, which I no longer owned the IDE/compiler for, and DirectX 8 which was already phased out of general use. The level editor that James North had created wasn't accessible which means I couldn't even add new levels without a total rewrite. So in the end I chose to rewrite everything from scratch. Not an easy or exactly fun prospect. Around December of 2006 the private testers and I discussed it and thought it would be cool if my rendition of Montezuma's Revenge was closer to the original. It was decided to upgrade all levels to make it so, and in the end it was this exact copying of the game that got me in hot water with the copyright holders. Months later as the game was winding down in development along comes the copyright holders of the Montezuma's Revenge Montezuma's Return games ordering us to cease and desist production of our game. I agreed to do so. I told them that the next major release would have nothing in common with their games, and the issue was closed. As a result of this copyright issue I decided to think about how to rework the game not only to avoid the copyright issues but make a new and exciting game out of the ashes of Montezuma's Return. I did run a poll to see if people would be more interested in a side-scroller or FPS, and the side-scroller format won. However, following the poll I became very depressed, disappointed, and found myself unable to pick up where I left off with the game. To explain it better I was totally emotionally, physically, burned out on working on the game. I spent a year and a half putting every moment of free time into the game, and was totally sick to death of it. Michael, in your email you talk about how Montezuma's Revenge was a game you always dreamed of playing. Well, as a game developer I have dreams too. I have always dreamed of a 3D FPS style treasure hunting game like Tomb Raider that I can play. I discovered through the course of development of Montezuma's Revenge I learned side-scrollers of that era and style no longer captures my attention. I simply grew board with the game, and grew very depressed of having to finish a game I no longer wanted to make. In short I was following someone else's dream not my own. Finally, you brought up the issue of trust. Yes, I can understand why some gamers might compare me with James North, and feel I am being less than honest with them. I am not, and try not to be dishonest with anyone regarding this decision. It is simply I no longer want to create a side-scroller now that I am forbidden from completing Montezuma's Revenge or Montezuma's Return. I just am not up to rewriting a new side-scroller from scratch. The way I feel about it right now is if gamers really really must absolutely have a side-scroller I might as well patch the Montezuma's Return game engine with some patches, create a couple of new levels, give it some lame generic name, and put it out there as abandon ware. Even if I complete the side-scroller game I have no desire to upgrade or finish it beyond what is necessary to fulfill my orders. I just want to be free of this James North and his games business. Sincerely, Thomas Ward --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Claudio: You are wrong. We need to move ahead and those babies who want to stay in the past keep them there. Like another post said those are the same ones who have never donated a damn dime to anything but wanted to complain all the time. Make demands and never support anything. Claudio I know you are starting your own business so why don't you develop the side scrollers and stay in the past and let the awesome developers like Tom forge the future for us blind people. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Willem Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 5:16 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. lol! So you're saying the comunity isn't interested? You are so wrong. - Original Message - From: Claudio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 9:47 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hello thomas! My question: If you make games where you're happy but not the people, what you have in your hand? A game for you, but not for the comunity. If you make games where the comunity is desinterested you can't earn mony. Regards, Claudio. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Willum: You are right but people who are so short sighted and dense don't see it that way. It is supposed to be better and move up with technology and make it more fun and re play value so much higher. Unbelievable. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of will lomas Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:55 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. hi remember, tom is the developer not us, and we can't expect him to do something, he has no desire to do. you ahve beta 1 of MOTA, six levels, that's enough what more do you expect? all the levels are the damn same anyways so please, where's the replay in that? none quit whining the lot of you and be grateful a man here has sacrificed not only his family life but maybe other problems we may not know about, including obviosuly these copyright issues --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
It's not that we don't want change and difficult games. I'm ready for them. I want to experience them. I also want what has been waited for, as promised. That's not too unreasonable. I'll readily pay for a 3D game. But let me see the game I bought first. Actually, it's not myself and Michael and some others that are moaning, whining and so on. We're also not insulting others. We've been pointing out how we feel, what we think should be done, and why, hopefully in a reasonable manner. On the other hand, look at your messages that contain name calling, inept typing whether through lack of knowledge or through carelessness, or anger. Your lack of intellect and flawed reasoning are showing. --- Laughter is the best medicine. Look around you and find a dose. - Original Message - From: will lomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. exactly so he has the right, to make the game how he wants it the side scroller version of montyzoomas is boring. you know what? if i were thomas i'd either ignore you moaning lot amongst us and you have a beta 1 of six highly playable levels, live with it and stop bloody moaning or i'd just close shop and its' all down to michael sarah and the other moaning idiots around here, who don't want change and more diversity oh yes and that has to include charles, of course. yes so what i am flaming big deal get used to it. i am british, with an attitude, and i make my voice heard in this comunity. I am in support of thomas, and it is you moaners who will make him close shop eventurallyw ith all the bs yuc ause him and agrovation. ok, james north did as he was a crook we've all been over this one before guys. but at least thomas cares for us and thanks to you lot moaning, despite the fact you had a paid for beta which thomas had to re-code due to copyright laws, of monty with six, yes six, not 1 2 3 or 4 ut six levels, you are just never satisfied subject closed from my end thanks for nothing. would could have been a cool wicked concept for us for this first game in the MOTA series has been spoilt because mommy threw the toys out of the pram On 21 Mar 2008, at 20:56, Yohandy wrote: What most people don't realize is that they paid for a game James North created, not Thomas. Thomas did take over the project, but he didn't earn a single penny. Who do you think is more affected? Yes many of you lost a few bucks, but Thomas lost much more cash. Just my views. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Very good thoughts, which I agree with. Thanks. --- Laughter is the best medicine. Look around you and find a dose. - Original Message - From: Yohandy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hey Thomas, I know I'm replying to the same message, but I just had an idea. Were you ever told to discontinue montezuma's return, or simply change the names? If you were just told to change the name, then you can still finish the game. you only have a few levels to go, and your customers will be happy to finally get what they want. whatever you choose to do, you have my support all the way and I'll definitely get your 3D game when it comes out! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi Claudio, I understand what you are saying. Though it doesn't make me feel one darn bit better. The only thing I can think to do is come up with some generic side-scroller along the lines of a Montezuma's Return game, give out to the paid customers, tell them here you go, and then go on with life. I can clearly see right now the fans of the side-scroller style will never leave me alone, never stop griping, moaning, groaning, and complaining until I do. I am frankly sick of this community. I work hard to create games, and there is always some complaint justified or unjustified. In this case Sarah and Michael are probably right that I shouldn't change the format of the game when I sold it as a side-scroller in December. They are completely justified in their views, but I am just at my wits end of going back and remaking an all new side-scroller from scratch. I will have to think of a new name for the side-scroller as my Mysteries Of the Aztecs story is a good one, and it would not work for a side-scroller. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
True, but he did take the project on, and one of the reasons he did so was to complete what he thought we should have received from James North. I commend him for that. We've been hoping for, and anticipating, and waiting patiently, for the finished product, regardless of who it comes from. I think that Thomas has gotten the short end of the stick as far as this game is concerned, and it was through no fault of his own. As stated elsewhere, I do support him in his future endeavors, that that's what they are--future endeavors. I'd really like to see this game come to fruition, as other gamers who bought the game would. I think he does owe it to us only because he took the task on, and has worked so much to complete it. I still think that it will pay off in the end in the form of customer satisfaction, which is always a good thing when it comes to the next games you want to sell. It would leave a bad taste in the mouths of some gamers to see the game not completed, and they just might not continue support. I would not be one of those use-to-be customers. He has been open with us, he has been fair with us. He took a poll to see what we wanted, and was going to produce it. And this was not all that long ago, either. This shows an attitude of wanting to provide what the majority of the gaming community wants. I would like this to continue in the case of this game. --- Laughter is the best medicine. Look around you and find a dose. - Original Message - From: Yohandy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. What most people don't realize is that they paid for a game James North created, not Thomas. Thomas did take over the project, but he didn't earn a single penny. Who do you think is more affected? Yes many of you lost a few bucks, but Thomas lost much more cash. Just my views. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hi Yohandy, Basically, that is what Michael and the rest are going to get. They want a side-scroller I am just going to slap some code together and give them something resembling a finished product with 10 levels and that will be the end of this mess. In the words of one of my favorite GNR songs, What we've got here is failior to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So we got what we had last week. If that is what he wants, well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you do. Yohandy wrote: Gosh thomas, it's quite sad to see people bash such a kind person as yourself. even through all you're going through, you're still trying to do your best on the game by using your 3d engine etc. if I were in your shoes I don't think I'd be so patient. I'd just slap something together and say ok here's your montezuma's return, take it or leave it. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hi Bryan, Well, I guess we can find out how long it takes to upgrade the side-scroller is that is what people are asking for. Though, I am not going to put as much effort or time into it as I might have for the 3D FPS game. Bryan Peterson wrote: Honestly, from the sounds of it though it would have taken even longer to update the existing side scroller with those features than it would have to write the 3-D game. How hard would it have been to let THomas do what he wants this once and then, later on down the road release a full side scroller.? If you ask me we were darn lucky he didn't just scrap the project entirely. At least he was still willing to give us a game. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hi Charles, Thanks to me being a very honest person you wouldn't even have known what the poll results were if I hadn't published them on the list. If I was unscrupulous, less honest, I would announced a totally different out come and you wouldn't have known the difference. As it is I was being honest about the results. It is not that the poll results are unimportant or I don't care what you all think. It is about I have to spend six months, a year, whatever of my life making a game I don't want to create. A game I have lost all interest in, and in all likelyhood never play again after it is finished. Let's put this in perspective. Most of the time I program for fun. I do it as relaxation, for entertainment value, and when it loses that entertainment value what is it? It is called work. It is a well known fact i write these games in my free or spare time. What you are commiting me to is not working on a job, but using all of my free or spare time to deliver something for someone elses enjoyment. Not my own. Now, in return for this game I want you and the rest of the community to use every minute of your family or free time doing home work, house work, tending to other things. You aren't alloud to watch as much TV, read as many books, because you have to do a project for everyone else that gives you absolutely no satisfaction or enjoyment. See how long you last. Charles Rivard wrote: I very much agree. What about those poll results?? The majority wanted a side scrolling game, which there are not enough of. What will we be getting and why? You were on the right track of customer service. As a game developer, are you going to give us, the majority of gamers who were asked, what we?? want, or what you. want. I realize that you are not making any money from those of us who preordered, but think of it this way: What did we pay for? After you took the project over, what did we ask for when you asked us which way to go? What are we now going to get after all this? I respectfully ask that you rethink and go back to at least a side scroller. I'm sure i will like what you have planned, but I think it should be sold as a new game, and make the side scroller as the game we paid for and then voted for when asked our preference. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
I have only respect for every thing that Thomas has done. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 2:40 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. True, but he did take the project on, and one of the reasons he did so was to complete what he thought we should have received from James North. I commend him for that. We've been hoping for, and anticipating, and waiting patiently, for the finished product, regardless of who it comes from. I think that Thomas has gotten the short end of the stick as far as this game is concerned, and it was through no fault of his own. As stated elsewhere, I do support him in his future endeavors, that that's what they are--future endeavors. I'd really like to see this game come to fruition, as other gamers who bought the game would. I think he does owe it to us only because he took the task on, and has worked so much to complete it. I still think that it will pay off in the end in the form of customer satisfaction, which is always a good thing when it comes to the next games you want to sell. It would leave a bad taste in the mouths of some gamers to see the game not completed, and they just might not continue support. I would not be one of those use-to-be customers. He has been open with us, he has been fair with us. He took a poll to see what we wanted, and was going to produce it. And this was not all that long ago, either. This shows an attitude of wanting to provide what the majority of the gaming community wants. I would like this to continue in the case of this game. --- Laughter is the best medicine. Look around you and --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Hi Charles, Actually, yes it is, and I will tell you why. Back when I originally created the game engine I was following along with James North's basic coding and methodology for doing things. After a while I discovered a critical bug in the games mapping feature and level editor. Well, I decided not to go back and fix that said bug because all 6, repete all 6, levels plus some of the mapping code would have to be wripped out and redone from scratch. Second, there is still a rather nasty jump and hang bug in the Montezuma's Return game engine. You know the one where you jump and are stuck hanging in the air? Well, I have figured out what is wrong with that, but again it is going to require a major and massive rewrite of sections of the engine to fix it. I hadn't felt up to the revisions necessary to do it. What you are asking me to do is wrip out and update large portions of the engine to fix some major mistakes I made with it. I honestly think it might be better just to rewrite the engine from scratch than fool with the upgrades. So If I rewrite the engine I'll look you and the rest of the list up in a year and a half when Alpha 1 is ready. Do you really want that? Charles Rivard wrote: We only demand what was promised. This shouldn't be too much to ask. Changes due to copyright issues are one thing, a whole new game is another. --- Laughter is the best medicine. Look around you and find a dose. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi Michael, Assuming I were to change my mind and make a side-scroller as you desire me to do you already know I can not and will not create aMontezuma's Revenge clone as per my agreement with the copyright holders. As a result the new side-scroller game would have to have some pretty extensive changes in the game engine. Not only would the engine need some major updates but all6 levels the game engine has would need to be rewritten from scratch. The Genesis 3D technology I am working on is a much more advanced engine and there are features in it that I personally would make the game feel more realistic. For example, in the Genesis 3D engine there is a grip timer. When climbing an object like a rope you have so many seconds to climb the rope and then you begin losing strength points. After your strength goes to 0 you fall to your death. While I could in theory put all of these kinds of features into the old side-scroller engine it might be more benificial to base a game on the new libraries and forget about the old engine. This is more from a technical common class structure for games rather than if I can or can not upgrade the old engine. I honestly had not expected this much of an out rage over this conversion to 3D, but the 3D version was just started this week. It is not too late to go back to the side-scroller, but it appears I am not going to be allowed to be creative or use my freedom of developer expression in this matter. If blind gamers are going to be so demanding on what kind of games I will or will not produce for them perhaps I shouldn't be in this business. Thanks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
but your interlect is flawed too you idiot, right for those at the back of the clas thomas doesn't want to make a side scroller, it is driving him mad you selfish dickhead On 22 Mar 2008, at 00:50, Charles Rivard wrote: It's not that we don't want change and difficult games. I'm ready for them. I want to experience them. I also want what has been waited for, as promised. That's not too unreasonable. I'll readily pay for a 3D game. But let me see the game I bought first. Actually, it's not myself and Michael and some others that are moaning, whining and so on. We're also not insulting others. We've been pointing out how we feel, what we think should be done, and why, hopefully in a reasonable manner. On the other hand, look at your messages that contain name calling, inept typing whether through lack of knowledge or through carelessness, or anger. Your lack of intellect and flawed reasoning are showing. --- Laughter is the best medicine. Look around you and find a dose. - Original Message - From: will lomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. exactly so he has the right, to make the game how he wants it the side scroller version of montyzoomas is boring. you know what? if i were thomas i'd either ignore you moaning lot amongst us and you have a beta 1 of six highly playable levels, live with it and stop bloody moaning or i'd just close shop and its' all down to michael sarah and the other moaning idiots around here, who don't want change and more diversity oh yes and that has to include charles, of course. yes so what i am flaming big deal get used to it. i am british, with an attitude, and i make my voice heard in this comunity. I am in support of thomas, and it is you moaners who will make him close shop eventurallyw ith all the bs yuc ause him and agrovation. ok, james north did as he was a crook we've all been over this one before guys. but at least thomas cares for us and thanks to you lot moaning, despite the fact you had a paid for beta which thomas had to re-code due to copyright laws, of monty with six, yes six, not 1 2 3 or 4 ut six levels, you are just never satisfied subject closed from my end thanks for nothing. would could have been a cool wicked concept for us for this first game in the MOTA series has been spoilt because mommy threw the toys out of the pram On 21 Mar 2008, at 20:56, Yohandy wrote: What most people don't realize is that they paid for a game James North created, not Thomas. Thomas did take over the project, but he didn't earn a single penny. Who do you think is more affected? Yes many of you lost a few bucks, but Thomas lost much more cash. Just my views. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2.
Except that with all the whining and complaining I wouldn't be at all surprised if Thomas decided to leave the community. It's very possible we may never see another title from him after the side scroller and possibly Raceway. And if we do we'll be very lucky indeed. I'm hardly surprised he got burned out on this projet what with the setbacks he's run into. And besides, technically you guys paid for James North's game, not Thomas', so you should have said something long before now. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Actually, why can't we have the new game as well as the old. The old is first finished, then comes the new. I'm excited about both, and I don't see why they can't coexist. I support Thomas in his creation of the 3D game, but all in good time. Complete one project that has long been waited for, then work on the next. Get one game out of the way, be done with it, then work on what's in the future. If a game is half completed, and it was paid for, crank it out, fine tune it through beta testing, and distribute it. Gamers who have not bought it yet just might do so, and those who have already bought it get what they paid for. And, hopefully, all supportive gamers will continue to be supportive based on this course of action, as he will be aiming to please the paying customers. I am open to how my thoughts are unreasonable. I don't expect the game to be out in a day, a week, a month, or any designated time. As long as it is still being worked on, and effort is made to get it to those of us who are willing to wait, that's fine. But to seemingly drop it in midproduction is not the right way to go. --- Laughter is the best medicine. Look around you and find a dose. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:54 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Wouldn't it take longer to build these features into the side scroller than to just do what you want and create the new game? It seems to me that if we'd have longer to wait for the new side scroller, you should follow your own star and if some people don't like it then so be it. You can't please everyone, and if you tried you'd just continue to be depressed. Personally I want the new 3-d game now that I've read your post about it. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] What's Ahead For MOTA Beta 2. Hi Michael, Assuming I were to change my mind and make a side-scroller as you desire me to do you already know I can not and will not create aMontezuma's Revenge clone as per my agreement with the copyright holders. As a result the new side-scroller game would have to have some pretty extensive changes in the game engine. Not only would the engine need some major updates but all6 levels the game engine has would need to be rewritten from scratch. The Genesis 3D technology I am working on is a much more advanced engine and there are features in it that I personally would make the game feel more realistic. For example, in the Genesis 3D engine there is a grip timer. When climbing an object like a rope you have so many seconds to climb the rope and then you begin losing strength points. After your strength goes to 0 you fall to your death. While I could in theory put all of these kinds of features into the old side-scroller engine it might be more benificial to base a game on the new libraries and forget about the old engine. This is more from a technical common class structure for games rather than if I can or can not upgrade the old engine. I honestly had not expected this much of an out rage over this conversion to 3D, but the 3D version was just started this week. It is not too late to go back to the side-scroller, but it appears I am not going to be allowed to be creative or use my freedom of developer expression in this matter. If blind gamers are going to be so demanding on what kind of games I will or will not produce for them perhaps I shouldn't be in this business. Thanks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers
