Re: Bugzilla usage
Are you refering to the perl scripts in CVSROOT (which I use heavily, thanx:)).. ? Mvgr, Martin On Tue, 2002-05-21 at 17:54, John McNally wrote: On Tue, 2002-05-21 at 07:14, Pier Fumagalli wrote: Great, Andy, you're recruited... We need to get Scarab 1.0b7 up on Nagoya. The only issue I have with it (but Jon promised to fix it before going 1.0 final) is that we can't associate a particular issue with one given user-attribute default... So, issues will never be Cced to the appropriate mailing list. We can have all mail generated by scarab copied to a single address (and then filter on -for example- the subject line), but I want to dig into it a little bit more... The latest cvs does allow you to specify the email that gets CC'ed on a per module basis. john mcnally -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...
Even though I am not a committer / member (I try to contribute code however), I just needed to express my opinion ;). I am a +1 on Piers proposal. Especially the membership possibility for people who are not coding can be very constructive for this community! Designers, politicians, copywriters, lawyers, nannies, cleaning lady, sys admins, people with great ideas (the thinkers) etc,etc.. A community is more then just programming, although it is our core business here. Others can give us a look at things we didn't have before and make life a little bit easier for us code monkeys (or as I call myself in dutch tiep miep) Just my 2 euro cents ;) Mvgr, Martin PS this is not a pro Pier (or whoever) and con Costin (or whoever) thing. So let's keep it that way and ignore the comments about that to each other. If you cannot mail something independend of the past, besidees the current subject, don't mail it or mail it in private, or better be the wisest to ignore it. value teacher mode on I am not here to teach values or something like that (you are not waiting for that probably), but I am going to try anyway : The past is something that happened and is not now, you cannot blame people for what has taken place then, because it is not taking place now (with now I mean this Nanosecond even less). Life becomes so much easier if you obtain this view! No barriers to look back on, just plain free, non prejudiced communications. Wow we live in a great world! Forgive me my Martin logic, you will get used to it.. ;)) /value teacher mode off On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 15:13, Pier Fumagalli wrote: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -1, its not broken, it worked. I see little reason to fix it. It is broken. We don't allow Sally Khudairi to be a member of this community, nor James Gonzo Todd (ex employee at Sun), to leave his employment and terminate his working (9 to 5) relationship with Apache, without leaving him with the dues of a committer and make him look bad because he disappeared. Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...
Andy, With this attitude nothing gets ever implemented I guess. In this case Pier can hardly say : I am going to implement this and all of you comply! So he can implement whatever he wants, as long as it it still veto'd its no use investing spare time in. I offered myself 2 times to jakarta as a sysadmin/co-list moderator, but to no avail, although some were complaining about lack of time. This new proposal will leave this kind of involvement at least open. Mvgr, Martin On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 16:49, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 10:44, Martin van den Bemt wrote: Even though I am not a committer / member (I try to contribute code however), I just needed to express my opinion ;). I am a +1 on Piers proposal. Especially the membership possibility for people who are not coding can be very constructive for this community! Designers, politicians, copywriters, lawyers, nannies, cleaning lady, sys admins, people with great ideas (the thinkers) etc,etc.. A community is more then just programming, although it is our core business here. Others can give us a look at things we didn't have before and make life a little bit easier for us code monkeys (or as I call myself in dutch tiep miep) I see lots of ideas floating around. Just few get implemented. -Andy Just my 2 euro cents ;) Mvgr, Martin PS this is not a pro Pier (or whoever) and con Costin (or whoever) thing. So let's keep it that way and ignore the comments about that to each other. If you cannot mail something independend of the past, besidees the current subject, don't mail it or mail it in private, or better be the wisest to ignore it. value teacher mode on I am not here to teach values or something like that (you are not waiting for that probably), but I am going to try anyway : The past is something that happened and is not now, you cannot blame people for what has taken place then, because it is not taking place now (with now I mean this Nanosecond even less). Life becomes so much easier if you obtain this view! No barriers to look back on, just plain free, non prejudiced communications. Wow we live in a great world! Forgive me my Martin logic, you will get used to it.. ;)) /value teacher mode off On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 15:13, Pier Fumagalli wrote: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -1, its not broken, it worked. I see little reason to fix it. It is broken. We don't allow Sally Khudairi to be a member of this community, nor James Gonzo Todd (ex employee at Sun), to leave his employment and terminate his working (9 to 5) relationship with Apache, without leaving him with the dues of a committer and make him look bad because he disappeared. Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.superlinksoftware.com - software solutions for business http://jakarta.apache.org/poi - Excel/Word/OLE 2 Compound Document in Java http://krysalis.sourceforge.net/centipede - the best build/project structure a guy/gal could have! - Make Ant simple on complex Projects! The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -Ambassador Kosh -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...
On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 17:16, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: I fail to see the connection between what I said and what you stated. Then I fail to see your connection with my story too.. I'll Give it try anyway : If no one cares or just one person cares and needs to vote of all to get things implemented or changed and doesn't get that vote, it will not get implemented, or even tried. I think that is normal behaviour here, so that is why I guess a lot of idea's never get implemented anyway, because you guys -1 it.. I offered myself as installer of Scarab and it was accepted. Guess you are a committer on jakarta? I am not. Is that the difference? This is exactly the reason why I said +1.. If you don't mind me asking out of interest : which project ? (else I have to dig into the avail file to see where you have commit access ;)) I'll be implementing that shortly. (Step 1. Drive Server to chapel hill, Step 2. Install Scarab on it for practice, Step 3. install here) It's broken now indeed ;) On the turbine list they are still saying that I have to use that to get bugs... Mvgr, Martin -Andy On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 11:05, Martin van den Bemt wrote: Andy, With this attitude nothing gets ever implemented I guess. In this case Pier can hardly say : I am going to implement this and all of you comply! So he can implement whatever he wants, as long as it it still veto'd its no use investing spare time in. I offered myself 2 times to jakarta as a sysadmin/co-list moderator, but to no avail, although some were complaining about lack of time. This new proposal will leave this kind of involvement at least open. Mvgr, Martin On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 16:49, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 10:44, Martin van den Bemt wrote: Even though I am not a committer / member (I try to contribute code however), I just needed to express my opinion ;). I am a +1 on Piers proposal. Especially the membership possibility for people who are not coding can be very constructive for this community! Designers, politicians, copywriters, lawyers, nannies, cleaning lady, sys admins, people with great ideas (the thinkers) etc,etc.. A community is more then just programming, although it is our core business here. Others can give us a look at things we didn't have before and make life a little bit easier for us code monkeys (or as I call myself in dutch tiep miep) I see lots of ideas floating around. Just few get implemented. -Andy Just my 2 euro cents ;) Mvgr, Martin PS this is not a pro Pier (or whoever) and con Costin (or whoever) thing. So let's keep it that way and ignore the comments about that to each other. If you cannot mail something independend of the past, besidees the current subject, don't mail it or mail it in private, or better be the wisest to ignore it. value teacher mode on I am not here to teach values or something like that (you are not waiting for that probably), but I am going to try anyway : The past is something that happened and is not now, you cannot blame people for what has taken place then, because it is not taking place now (with now I mean this Nanosecond even less). Life becomes so much easier if you obtain this view! No barriers to look back on, just plain free, non prejudiced communications. Wow we live in a great world! Forgive me my Martin logic, you will get used to it.. ;)) /value teacher mode off On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 15:13, Pier Fumagalli wrote: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -1, its not broken, it worked. I see little reason to fix it. It is broken. We don't allow Sally Khudairi to be a member of this community, nor James Gonzo Todd (ex employee at Sun), to leave his employment and terminate his working (9 to 5) relationship with Apache, without leaving him with the dues of a committer and make him look bad because he disappeared. Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.superlinksoftware.com - software solutions for business http://jakarta.apache.org/poi - Excel/Word/OLE 2 Compound Document in Java http://krysalis.sourceforge.net/centipede - the best build/project structure a guy/gal could have! - Make Ant simple on complex Projects! The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -Ambassador Kosh -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...
The converse: You all can vote all day long on what I'm to do, but what are you going to do when my dissenting vote is cast by me not actually doing it? Voting has NOTHING to do with what work gets done. Thats the POWER of those who do. We are talking about this proposal am I right not about a project proposal? So if there is a veto, you can do whatever you want, but you are doing it for nobody. Unless you want to push the proposal in, when the opportunity is there. I offered myself as installer of Scarab and it was accepted. Guess you are a committer on jakarta? I am not. Is that the difference? This is exactly the reason why I said +1.. If you contribute work, you'll become a committer, its as simple as that. I propose people committers because I can't keep up with their patches and get my own work done. (After I make sure they will fit into the community and they know how to use CVS). I would like to say I really value the opinions of everyone, but I don't. I value the opinions of those who are going to contribute something tangible to the project (even if its just critique of the documentation, bug reports, test files, etc). Don't think we are discussing the same thing here.. I refered to my offer of being a sysadmin/maillist moderator. Becoming a committer of any project isn't involved in that. Probably because you have to be committer to do such a thing, getting involved the community is pretty difficult. If +1 = Andy Do then thats a big -1 from me. If +1 = Yes and I'll do or help do then great! To let non-coders be committers cheapens the meaning. Agreed ont hat, but I guess you missed to point Pier made.. Pier wasn't suggesting that non-coders can be committers, just that they can be members. Its just a bunch of folks registering their opinion on what I should do. Yeah, the difference between that and toilette paper is that toilette paper is useful. You are all (seen this reference a couple of times now) thinking of members that take up jakarta management issues and that they become leaders.. I was just referring to people who can make life easier for the coders. If I was jakarta's sysadmin, and someones says we want to switch to scarab, I must be able to say -1 (when supplying good reasons..). If you have a vote on POI, as a sysmanager I don't vote on that. The only members that can intervene in your project (if that member role was there that is), could be the lawyers ;) En (or de)-cryption support in POI is something that could be appropiate on that ;)). Hope you get the overall picture of what I am trying to say here.. (please don't kill me on details..) Yeah the kicker is that there are no bugs in it (or at least there weren't a week or two ago). Maybe Turbine is perfect? :-D Dude.. I was searching my ass of on that crashing thing.. I guess it is perfect then indeed ;). Mvgr, Martin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...
Being a committer (at least that's my idea), he doesn't only have the right to vote, but also the due to vote... This is one of the fundamental concepts of any good democratic country. Are we undermining that? Hmm.. democracy is also having the right not to vote. Just don't complain if you don't like what happened after the vote.. Mvgr, Martin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...
Maven provides that functionality ;)) see http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/activity-log.html Mvgr, Martin On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 18:28, Pier Fumagalli wrote: James Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- jt (who is afraid Pier will do a mailing list search on him and realize how little value he brings to the community =) Sorry James, I just _had_ to do this! :) Nothing personal!!! :) :) :) sarcasm Just need to grep the right files... You are a good committer, I see that you have 2342 commits into the turbine CVS. Good. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...
its a meritocracy. Thanx to the Oxfort dictionary I know what it is.. But all democracies are actually meritocracies according to the dictionary, they select you to be able to vote when 18+. But this is getting way to Off-Topic I guess... ;)) Mvgr, Martin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...
On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 19:03, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: The action worthy of merit being: Surviving adolescence? Too many words I need a dictionary for ;)) (it's hard to discuss stuff you have to get out of a dictionary, so I will not try that) I will conclude this day of way too little coding by using the footer I just seen on Nicola's mail : - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) Let's I made the choice to remain ;). Mvgr, Martin van den Bemt -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FW: Howdy... just FYI, the bcel-dev archive mailing list linkis broken...
bcel-dev is just not on mail-archive.com.. It has to be subscribed, which I am trying to do currently ;)) Mvgr, Martin On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 19:58, Pier Fumagalli wrote: FYI, can someone with the right knowledge fix it? :) Pier -- [Perl] combines all the worst aspects of C and Lisp: a billion of different sublanguages in one monolithic executable. It combines the power of C with the readability of PostScript. [Jamie Zawinski - DNA Lounge - San Francisco] -- Forwarded Message From: Tom Copeland [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 22:45:53 -0400 (EDT) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Howdy... just FYI, the bcel-dev archive mailing list link is broken... on this page: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html The link to these archives - http://jakarta.apache.org/mail/ - is fine though... Yours, Tom -- End of Forwarded Message -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FW: Howdy... just FYI, the bcel-dev archive mailing list linkis broken...
Someone beat me to it ;) Mvgr, Martin On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 20:07, Martin van den Bemt wrote: bcel-dev is just not on mail-archive.com.. It has to be subscribed, which I am trying to do currently ;)) Mvgr, Martin On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 19:58, Pier Fumagalli wrote: FYI, can someone with the right knowledge fix it? :) Pier -- [Perl] combines all the worst aspects of C and Lisp: a billion of different sublanguages in one monolithic executable. It combines the power of C with the readability of PostScript. [Jamie Zawinski - DNA Lounge - San Francisco] -- Forwarded Message From: Tom Copeland [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 22:45:53 -0400 (EDT) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Howdy... just FYI, the bcel-dev archive mailing list link is broken... on this page: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html The link to these archives - http://jakarta.apache.org/mail/ - is fine though... Yours, Tom -- End of Forwarded Message -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Must I resubscribe to all the list..
I am happy again.. I got my mails ;)) Mvgr, Martin On Wed, 2002-05-29 at 02:08, Martin van den Bemt wrote: (NOTE : just subsribed, hoping it will arrive on general this time.. probably other mails are waiting to be moderated, you can decline ;) Hi everyone, I already mailed to Pier privately, but I am a bit lost here, and I want to know the consequences. Since a couple of days I don't receive any mails anymore on [EMAIL PROTECTED] Every request to the server, doesn't return a response (I can be mailed on that address, no problems on my site, just so you know). I tried subsribing (without replying) from other mail addresses, which all seem to work fine. I subscribed to about 30 mailinglist on jakarta. So I want to know what I am up against So here are my questions : 0) What is going on ? 1) Do I still get those e-mails from the last couple of days ? 2) Am I still subsribed ? 3) Do I have to subscribe under a different mail address ? 4) If 3 is true, can someone please unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED], since I cannot seem to get anything done at that address. If you have any other answers, I would love to hear them.. Getting a bit frustrated by looking at the archives.. ;( Mvgr, Martin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...
On Thu, 2002-05-30 at 01:49, Ted Husted wrote: If you accept a nomination to be a committer, and gain CVS access, then you can apply your own patches. Since most of use the products we patch, this is an important benefit to most contributors. If you happen to see a patch from another contributor that you think is useful, you can apply that too. But none of us are obligated to do anything we don't want to do. That will attract volunteers a great deal ;((. The least the project (and therefor also you as a committer), has an obligation to give a reasonable response to the effort taken. Clouding the mailinglist with reminders (what some projects actually specifically ask for), is actually not something I should invest my time in. Just a simple we don't have time for it now, it is on the todo list.. , would do in many cases. So if you don't want to take that effort : don't take up the responsibility of being a committer. So the obligation to do something with it, is of the project and if you are part of that you have an obligation. Mvgr, Martin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Source files in distribution ?
I think there was a big discussion on tomcat-dev about this a year ago. Someone suggested to remove the source, since it took extra download time and wasn't used anyway. The thread was pretty big as far as I remember.. I guess if the source is still distributes with the binary, it was -1 on that one ;) Mvgr, Martin On Fri, 2002-06-07 at 22:34, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I noticed some projects distribute separate 'dist' and 'source' packages, and some include the source in the dist package as well. In some cases the 'source' included with the dist doesn't include build.xml and the auxiliary files. I remember many discussions on 'guideliness' for jakarta distributions, was this discussed and is there any good document on how a distribution should look like ? Also, I remember discussions on a centralised cvs repository with all the binary jars that are redistributable. Did it get -1 or what is needed to get such a thing ? Costin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Scarab
I understood there wasn't any issue data in there anyway.. Mvgr, Martin On Thu, 2002-06-13 at 00:12, Jason van Zyl wrote: Hi, Does anyone have anything critical they want saved in the old Scarab installation on nagoya? I'm ready to install a new version of Scarab so that it's available for everyone but just wanted to check before blowing the old install away. -- jvz. Jason van Zyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://tambora.zenplex.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Interesting quote....
Also +1 on this one. Competing isn't good, since your strategy is based on what another company does, and then you are doomed. Just define your own goals, and if that ends up in being competetion for Microsoft, it is not even your problem, but you just made something that is really good! Mvgr, Martin On Tue, 2002-06-18 at 09:39, Sam Ruby wrote: Doug Bateman wrote: Sorry, I just don't measure success in terms of defeating Microsoft. And I'd wager Gandi's goal wasn't to defeat Britian, but to free India. Hopefully, Apache feels the same way. Last I checked, beating Microsoft was never mentioned in the Apache mission statement. +1 - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [DRAFT1] Jakarta Newsletter - June 2002
Ceki - I lost the umlauts(?) in your surname because they were causing the xdoc-html transition to fall over... any ideas how to fix? or is it not a problem? Save the file as UTF-8 (use vi or another tool, since some editor will put a utf-8 identifier in the beginning of the file.. Mvgr, Martin BTW The newsletter looks very good! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Open-Source Cola
It's GPL ;) So not apache compatible ;) Mvgr, Martin On Thu, 2002-07-04 at 11:19, Ellis Teer wrote: I thought the community might appreciate this, open source applied to other products, including the article itself. My apologies if it is too off topic. http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=13494 -- Ellis Teer www.sitepen.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: POI Logo legal matter
Suggestion : Write (ehh mail) the legal departments of sun and microsoft and ask if they would allow such a logo. If they agree (on paper preferably..), you can used the best logo.. (at least based on the current vote).. Mvgr, Martin On Fri, 2002-07-12 at 13:51, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: My real question here is just Whether the logo is legally a problem, I'm not a lawyer, have never been one and don't play one on TV even. If its not then it won't be an option for the committer vote. If it is, then it will be an option (and the winning user voted logo). I'd like to know from a lawyer though, not from a lay opinion. Refactoring the logo at this point wouldn't be fair I don't think. -Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think that if you were trying create a fantasy world where Microsoft and Sun were to merge then this would be the logo to pick, otherwise it is to close for comfort for either of them I believe. Just my opinion, Aaron [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ted Husted husted@apache To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] .orgcc: Subject: Re: POI Logo legal matter 07/11/02 05:54 PM Please respond to Jakarta General List I'd ask if the contributor could remove the diamond look so that it looks more like steam and less like the Windows flag, then see if we need to run it by counsel. The cup part seems like a stretch to me too, since it is a very different looking cup. But the diamond pattern does seem a bit too close for comfort. Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Hi All, The committers are about to be asked to vote on the new POI logo. While the recent user logo poll was not binding (as only committer votes are binding), I expect the majority of committers may cast their vote democratically. Unfortunately, the logo that has won the poll is controversial. Had I seen the Windows XP logo (I use Linux and sometimes w2k due to work/cross browser testing, but I always shower afterwards), I probably would have nixed this one. However, my opinion is but that of a lay person. From my understanding the foundation employs council that is available, however not being a member of the foundation, I'd like to solicit the assistance of a foundation member to bring this issue to the foundation or said legal council. I've been told that the logo is potentially a problem: a. because it looks too much like the windows xp logo b. because it employs a coffee cup (which I think is unlikely) and therefore would peeve sun too. I'd like to ask the legal reprentative to look at: http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/news/images/logoRaPiGmbH8.png results: http://vote.sparklit.com/poll.spark/640946 and tell us whether this logo is likely a trademark infringement on either issue. In the event it is, we'll not submit it to the POI committers as a candidate. Thanks, Andy -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY US -- Java Web Development with Struts -- Tel: +1 585 737-3463 -- Web: http://husted.com/about/services -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail:
Re: Ant Shirts ?
I don't know how finances are arranged at apache, but it would be cool to have some kind is shopping facility, with nice apache goodies, to eg generate revenue for organizing apache related conferences or other promoting activities.. Anyone any thoughts ? Mvgr, Martin On Wed, 2002-07-17 at 11:10, nickk wrote: yeah i was thinking the same thing nick Stephane Bailliez wrote: I suddenly thought about something. What happened to those shirts with the Ant logo that were supposed to be made ? I left in vacation when there was a talk about it but I did a quick search in the archives and could not find any mention of it. Is that dead ? Stephane -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: localhost:8080 vs localhost???
Is that site generated by maven ? ;)) Mvgr, Martin On Thu, 2002-07-18 at 00:23, Jon Scott Stevens wrote: on 7/17/02 3:06 PM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You don't think Jon should be the mascot somehow? I am the mascot... every time I post the idiot.html link...someone (usually you) goes and posts the jon.html link and everyone goes in circles again...it is quite funny...people get more of a reaction of just the fact that I post the link than anything. You guys should get out more often. Come down to my club (http://studioz.tv) and I will buy you a drink or something...maybe that will calm your nerves... -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: localhost:8080 vs localhost???
I don't think I want to imagine what the content may be..;)) Mvgr, Martin On Thu, 2002-07-18 at 02:14, Pier Fumagalli wrote: Paulo Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And even better is there is a revenge: - Lots of pictures! Being Jon one of my closest friends since _a_lot_, he has _a_lot_ of compromising material on me... And not only pictures (aaarrrggghhh) Pier (ducks for cover) -- [Perl] combines all the worst aspects of C and Lisp: a billion of different sublanguages in one monolithic executable. It combines the power of C with the readability of PostScript. [Jamie Zawinski - DNA Lounge - San Francisco] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: localhost:8080 vs localhost???
Teteringen, The Netherlands (ask the Turbine list how it is there ;) Mvgr, Martin On Thu, 2002-07-18 at 13:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a question. It seems that you all kinda know each other. Where is everyone located? Aaron -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: localhost:8080 vs localhost???
He is just the first dutch serial killer on the loose ;)) Mvgr, Martin On Fri, 2002-07-19 at 13:57, Stephane Bailliez wrote: -Original Message- From: Leo Simons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] [...] the world. I have also taken the precaution of killing all my family and friends so you have no way to blackmail me. Are you by any chance a relative of Kaiser Soze ? ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Fwd: Re: [eclipse-dev] Java compiler defaults changed]
FYI... Mvgr, Martin -Forwarded Message- From: Timothy Halloran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [eclipse-dev] Java compiler defaults changed Date: 23 Oct 2002 16:29:24 -0400 On the unused imports, heres some empirical data for I collected on Eclipse and some other (well-known) Java code (this has been floating around the jdt-ui-dev mailing list for some time): | import |UNUSED IMPORTS | Name | Uses(u) | # | %u | /kSLOC | kSLOC -+-+---+--++-- Jakarta Ant 1.5 | 3,526 | 172 | 4.9 |2.7 |64 Jakarta Tomcat 4.0.4 | 4,275 | 966 | 22.6 | 14.6 |66 Sun J2SDK 1.4.0_01 | 15,101 | 3,216 | 21.3 |6.3 | 508 NetBeans 3.2.2 | 30,102 | 6,626 | 22.0 | 11.6 | 571 ECLIPSE 2.0 | 49,097 | 2,859 | 5.8 |3.6 | 792 I removed the NetBeans test infrastructure (which is quite involved) from the analysis (I was using Eclipse so I had to get NetBeans to build within Eclipse, which was lots of fun:-). Lets hope this number goes to 0 for Eclipse in 2.1! Take Care Tim Halloran Carnegie Mellon University On Tue, 2002-10-22 at 07:04, Philippe Mulet wrote: FYI - from this integration build on, you'll notice that the Java compiler defaults will have changed to report 2 extra warnings: - static members accessed in non-static way (e.g. this.CONSTANT). - unused imports (often resulting from codeassisting). If you see these, you should consider fixing them so as to improve your code quality. ___ eclipse-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-dev ___ eclipse-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-dev -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
OptimizeIT license?
Hi everyone, I tried to get a (free) optimizeIT license from Borland, to use for some apache projects other open source projects. I tried to it with the European Sales Manager, but they didn't have a clue of what I meant with this and never heard back from them after a better explenation (they were thinking I wanted the sourcecode of optimizeIt..). Question : did anyone get a license for this purpose and any idea who I can contact over there ? Mvgr, Martin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: Linux Magazine article
Never skip a start of something is my motto ;) Mvgr, Martin On Sat, 2002-10-26 at 13:04, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: I'd rather perform their role from 1987-1999 or so ;-) -Andy Martin van den Bemt wrote: I never had you for an idealest. What I think they'll do is start trying to sell the JDK, lock every thing down grasping for some business model...any busines model.then sink slowly into the abyss taking java with them...but I think Sun today is the IBM of the 80s brought foward into the future given a jewel they have no idea what to do with (still). For my sake, I will preform the M$ role of the 80s :))) Mvgr, Martin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: Short Apache licence for source files
On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 09:59, Ceki Gülcü wrote: At 07:54 04.12.2002 +0100, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: Currently we should use the full version. There will be a short version of the next 2.0 license that will be equally protecting from a legal POV, but in the meantime use the full version. Why? What is wrong with a copyright notice followed by a reference to the license? The whole world does it. Why shouldn't we? As was said : it is simply not allowed by the board. Mvgr, Martin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GUI of the website, where's an overview? (not simply found)
I really like Bambi :) Mvgr, Martin On Thu, 2002-12-19 at 14:34, Pier Fumagalli wrote: On 17/12/02 7:14 Steven Noels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm currently (slowly) working on this: http://cocoon.cocoondev.org/mount/trove/ - which should, amongst others, be dependant on Gump data. Simple hint... Don't call it Trove... http://teatrove.sourceforge.net/ It's a pretty-famous widely-used set of utility classes used by Tea (a template engine). And given that they went open-source with it because of us (well, Brian and Duncan) we don't want to step on friends' toes, right??? :-) :-) Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Goodbye all
Have a very good trip! Too bad your not sailing it though, else we definitely would have met underdway ;)) Mvgr, Martin On Tue, 2003-01-14 at 14:02, Stephane Bailliez wrote: Just a quick note to say goodbye to all readers and committers on ant-dev and general. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations
+1 for all (although not binding). Also want ask you to also nominate Robert Burrel Donkin. He is current release manager for commons-beanutils and is preparing the betwixt (first) release now. Mvgr, Martin On Thu, 2003-01-16 at 22:59, Sam Ruby wrote: Reorging the Jakarta PMC apparently has become an annual event. This year will be no different. I've had lengthy talks with the Apache Board, and this has caused me to revisit a number of assumptions. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Forum Software.
As far as I could follow when it was set up, people were more keen on the idea to get usefull threads up there (was on tomcat-dev afaik, but Pier should probably remember it better), so they wouldn't be lost in the somethimes enormous mails on the mailinglist and prevent most commons questions from being asked over and over again. I think that it could be usefull for that purpose anyway. Btw love mailinglists and don't do forums much. Mvgr, Martin On Thu, 2003-01-23 at 01:13, Jeff Schnitzer wrote: On Wed, Jan 22, 2003 at 11:15:22PM +, Pier Fumagalli wrote: We have a license and an installation of Jive, if someone wants to get it up to speed... It's on nagoya. If you need a volunteer to maintain it, I'll be happy to do so - among other things, I develop and maintain the Jive-based forums for The Sims Online. However, I'm firmly in the mailing-list camp, at least as regards Apache. I don't see any reason to fix what isn't broken. IMHO, the forums will be useful to the extent that their purpose does not overlap with the mailing list and thus split the community. What purpose that leaves, I don't know. Jeff Schnitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Forum Software.
Very well said! Mvgr, Martin On Fri, 2003-01-24 at 10:47, Kief Morris wrote: So, read the archive. The great thing about mailing lists is ithey're open - anyone who wants to can put whatever interface they like onto it - web, news, whatever. Don't like the search engine? What search engine would you use if it was a forum? Why not use that on an archive? Do you prefer the threading in your favorite forum package to that in an archive? Implement it. A forum is a closed system, it limits access to a single point, and eliminates choice. Rather than stripping functionality away from people who use it just because you don't like it, ignore those features and implement whatever you do want. Kief -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: No reply from root
Did a forward already to the infrasctructure, which triggered huge response ;). Wasn't smart enough to cc general on this. (thought the request was to commons-dev and couldn't find the mail anymore and therefor didn't check if my mind was working ok) Mvgr, Martin On Fri, 2003-01-24 at 19:08, Craig R. McClanahan wrote: On Fri, 24 Jan 2003, Jeffrey Dever wrote: Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 12:22:01 -0500 From: Jeffrey Dever [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: No reply from root I am the release prime for the commons-httpclient component. I have made several attempts to have a user added as a committer, but there is no response from multiple requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] is several people, all of whom are pretty busy, and supporting the Apache infrastructure is done at the expense of their sleep hours :-). Sometimes it takes a couple of days. I will forward the new account request again to make sure it doesn't fall through the cracks, and then set up the CVS commit karma correctly when the account is set up. Craig Can someone please: 1) determine if someone is actually reading the mail sent to root. 2) create a committer account for this very deserving contributor. New committer: Oleg Kalnichevski [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project: Jakarta Commons HttpClient Userid: oleg Voting results: +1 Jeff Dever [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1 Dion Gillard [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1 Ortwin Gluck [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks, -jsd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Open ThunderGraph in Jakarta ?
Love to see a gui framework / tools thingy on apache.. Working on that stuff a lot lately (of course has a Apache Style License) Mvgr, Martin On Tue, 2003-01-28 at 16:32, Henri Gomez wrote: I have reservations: Let's go... 1) It's definitely a GUI focused project. Jakarta as a project has not yet made any moves to support Java projects which do not have some form of server aspect. Just as DB based Java projects are going into db.apache.org, I think there ought to be a gui.apache.org [better name needed] for this kind of thing. TG is not 100% GUI oriented since it could be used to produce graphics in a server side environment, and as such works great with tomcats. 2) This is a bit like a company looking at using Product X. If Jakarta is inviting projects in, what are the criteria. Why is ThunderGraph better than the alternatives? There is alternative, like JOpenGraph, but they don't want to switch from GPL/LGPL to BSD/ASF, which is a pre-requisite ;) Rather than digesting ThunderGraph into Jakarta, it'd be nice to see Apache backing some form of ASF-way-like community for gui'd components, ie) gui taglibs [we currently do quite abstract taglibs], components, applets etc. How can it be realised ? ASF umbrella is very attractive to developpers and there is a great community which may find interesting to be involved in gui projects. Couldn't we have TG and others GUI related projects under jakarta-commons or in a related structure, ie jakarta-guis ? If we're 'acquiring projects', I think we need some rules of acquisition. Sorry for such a negative reply, I'll live with it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta POI audit.
In summary, there are no controversial licensing issues for the Jakarta POI project itself. The only area of question is whether Centipede's use of LGPL libraries and POI's use of Centipede as a build tool constitutes a problem. We are eager to resolve this in the event the board sees this as a problem. It is our preference to continue using checkstyle unless there is an actual legal issue. (Not looking at centepede here) : POI can even use GPL for building. There is an exception when a buildtool adjusted the content of the thing it processes (don't get me on legal stuff here though :). It is written down in the gpl fag on fsf.org. httpd else would have to be gpl too, since it may use gpl'ed buildtools to get it build, which is clearly not the case. Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Action items now or after board meeting?
On Mon, 2003-02-10 at 13:46, Sam Ruby wrote: MySQL have indicated to me that they do intend to provide (or consider providing) specific less restrictive licences to certain groups, and that jakarta would likely be one, but I haven't heard any more, and until then the last release of the mm.mysql under LGPL is the only one we can use. If MySQL did contact me regarding a specific Apache licence I would, of course, pass this on as even a specific licence for Apache may not accord with either the ASFL or distribution of the driver by our mirrors. FWIW I believe that I summarised this on general@jakarta at the time, but perhaps not. The net affect of such a license would be that people who receive the software from us would have significantly less restrictions placed on what they could do with it than if they received these same bytes from the original source. This is not necessarily true. The most likely scenario is that the exception is just made for apache, not for people using apache, that wish to customize that part it is concerning (unless they contribute back of course..). Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Licensing again.
On Mon, 2003-02-10 at 16:19, Sam Ruby wrote: Define link. If you were subscribed to [EMAIL PROTECTED], you would have already seen the following: http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?[EMAIL PROTECTED]msgId=641442 http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?[EMAIL PROTECTED]msgId=641503 Based on that the rule should be : We cannot use anything that causes the ASF to change their license at any point AND doesn't change the license of any of the projects using the software in any way they want. (extending, rewriting), without a single exception. That would have stopped me from putting any time in looking at other ways to solve this problem :) Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations
This is the vote in which you got nominated :) Mvgr, Martin +1 (i can't see the original VOTE but i don't suppose that matters) +1 - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Free java profiler tools for open source projects?
I started the thread :) I contacted several people at borland and forwarded my request to Borland and the request back from Borland to the jakarta pmc (never had a reply from the pmc). If you are interested I can forward the reply I got from Borland to you.. Btw I am in the process of a retry (my employer bought optimizeIt and I noticed a non commercial license option being available. The european hq in Amstelveen is trying to figure out now how to get such a license) Mvgr, Martin On Thu, 2003-03-13 at 14:26, Steven Noels wrote: Hi, I remember a thread on 'some' ASF list about the availability of a number of commercial tools for free, when used within open source projects, just like the Atlassian guys currently do with Jira. I can't find that thread anymore, so I was hoping somebody else still remembers. More specifically, I was hoping one of the Java profiler tool vendors like Borland is doing something similar with OptimizeIT. Anyone who remembers that thread, or knows about some freebie Java profiling tool for ASF projects? Thanks, /Steven -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source, Java XML Competence Support Center Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Call on Stein to resign over Gernimo
Dude get a life and stop wining, we have better things to do, than read this shit. One thing is to have an opinion, the other thing is listening when people are actually saying you are wining and complaining at the worng place. LISTEN! Mvgr, Martin On Tue, 2003-11-11 at 23:37, Vic Cekvenich wrote: Scott Tavares wrote: Geezz relax Vic, . I can not understand why you are so passionate about this. Sincerely I think this is bad for open source and for sofware, which is where I do make a living. This is great for comercail vendors, proving that open source are... less ethical. What does it mean to be an open source supporter now, to a client? (OK, I should take the point that I need to let go of Don Quihote) I think lawyers have a bad reputation, and I do not want my profesion, sofware engineers to have that reputation. Henri Yandel wrote: This is where we get into the question of whether the ASF have licenced under an ASF licence, and not the LGPL licence of Elba, a piece of code that is not licensable. If so, then they have legally broken a barrier. Use of code is tricky, what if they have merely copied a design. I've not seen anything in terms of open source test cases to suggest how open open-source designs are. The apprent position of ASF is that.. well it's same design but we have (former jBoss developers changing the implementation over time. In esence, in music, same notes, but diferent performance ( same musicians.) You don't see how a PHB might hesiteate to hire an OSS suporter? Can somone downlaod ResinEE (for example :-) source, and refactor and now they own it? Or take OrionServer and decompile and refactor, and now they own it? Do ... or don't do what you want. I am done with it. .V ps: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=struts-devm=106858581404361w=2 (I can see the water mill now, now... it's a Dragon) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Martin van den Bemt [EMAIL PROTECTED] mvdb.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
Andrew, The big difference between Geir and you, is that Geir is actually trying to give feedback and explain the situation on what's going on. The only messages I keep reading from you are protests against private lists and that they should be public and for the rest nothing at all constructive. After a year watching your posts I have come to the conclusion that you probably still don't get it : you are the problem. You are part of that private list and have therefore the same responsibility as the other PMC members. If you think as a PMC member (you are that according to the jakarta website) that something should be in the open, just do it, instead of just saying that everything is decided in private without saying what is private.(that is even WORSE than keeping it private!) I think you are way out of line here blaming others, start looking at yourself for once! Hope to hear some constructive things from you in the future.. I don't expect a response from you, since you said you would never want to have anything to do with me, so I respect that. Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Just in case you're curious
Sorry to hear you didn't understand my mail at all If that is the way a PMC member communicates, I can never be part of that PMC. Mvgr, Martin On Sun, 2003-12-21 at 23:10, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Now the conversation is here, that is the solution. You're welcome. -Andy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The Name Jakarta
That place is officially djakarta btw :) So I was never confused.. Mvgr, Martin On Wed, 2004-01-28 at 15:48, Brian McCallister wrote: Despite any rumors to the contrary, Jakarta being the capital of Indonesia on the island of Java had nothing to do with it either ;-) -Brian On Jan 27, 2004, at 10:45 PM, Craig R. McClanahan wrote: Quoting Uncle Roastie [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Why/how was the name Jakarta choosen? Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] It was the name of the conference room at Sun where a large number of the discussions about the original formation of the project, as well as the contribution of Tomcat from Sun to Apache, took place. I guess the name sort of stuck. Craig McClanahan - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Apache License 2.0 came into effect
The ASF is the copyright holder.. Btw just moved a codehaus project to use v 2.0 :) Mvgr, Martin On Wed, 2004-01-28 at 15:41, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If all licenses must be updated by March 1st 2004, you'd better get us some using instructions really quickly, e.g. what goes in Copyright [] [name of copyright owner] for all our existing code? Will someone need to look up the original author and all updaters in CVS? -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://blogs.codehaus.org/people/dion/ Tetsuya Kitahata [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 24/01/2004 12:01:01 PM: Hello, Jakarta-Folks, Just a note (but very important) ++ brief summary ++ The Board has approved the new Apache License 2.0. For a copy of that license, please see http://www.apache.org/licenses/. The Board has also mandated that all ASF software must be switched to the new license by March 1st, 2004. Please watch this space for further instructions on how to use the new license. - ++ description ++ The 2.0 version of the Apache License was approved by the ASF (The Board has approved the new Apache License 2.0) in 2004. The goals of this license revision have been to reduce the number of frequently asked questions, to allow the license to be reusable without modification by any project (including non-ASF projects), to allow the license to be included by reference instead of listed in every file, to clarify the license on submission of contributions, to require a patent license on contributions that necessarily infringe the contributor's own patents, and to move comments regarding Apache and other inherited attribution notices to a location outside the license terms (the NOTICE file [1]). The result is a license that is compatible with other open source licenses, such as the GPL, and yet still remains true to the original goals of the Apache Group and supportive of collaborative development across both nonprofit and commercial organizations. All packages produced by the ASF will be implicitly licensed under the Apache License, version 2.0, unless otherwise explicitly stated. For more information, see Apache Licenses Page [2] [1] - http://www.apache.org/licenses/example-NOTICE.txt [2] - http://www.apache.org/licenses/ - You can also read this above from here: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/elsewhere.html#20040121.1 Sincerely, - Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.terra-intl.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Jakarta Wiki] New: WikiBrazil
Could someone check this ? I cannot read that too well :).
To whomever is doing this: it is best to login, so we can see who did
this..
And is this specific to Brazil ? Or is this also readable by all
Portugese speakers ?
Mvgr,
Martin
On Mon, 2004-07-05 at 14:05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Date: 2004-07-05T05:05:26
Editor: 143.106.2.61
Wiki: Jakarta Wiki
Page: WikiBrazil
URL: http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/WikiBrazil
no comment
New Page:
b[[Apache Software Foundation]] Wiki/b -- An experiment in emergence of
documentation. [http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?action=rss RSS]
[HomePageDiscussion Talk Page]
---
http://jakarta.apache.org/images/logos/ac2003-150.gif --
http://apachecon.com/2003/US/index.html
=== Seja bem vindo, o futuro é amanhã. Obrigado por colaborar! ===
Entre aqui para conseguir [[ Motivacao ]].
* '''Apache Wiki'''- Edição simplificada de documentos.
** [http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?RegrasFormatacaoTexto Regras de
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** WhatsA (glossário)
** [http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?action=index Indice geral]
** O que é wiki? Veja ApacheWiki. (incluindo Wiki baseado em FAQs.)
** [[WikiAdmin]]s - Aqueles que tem o poder , mas o usam raramente.
** ApacheWikiHistory - História deste wiki
* '''ASFProjects''' - Projetos da Fundação de Software Apache
** [http://apr.apache.org/ APR] - Ambiente de execução portável da Apache
** [http://commons.apache.org/ Commons] - Projeto de objetos comuns da apache . O
projeto comum da Apache não é o mesmo que o projeto comum da Jakarta. O ''Jakarta
Commons'' é somente disponível para componentes escritos em java, enquanto que o
''Apache Commons Project'' tem o objetivo de hospedar componentes para qualquer
linguagem. Adicionalmente, o ''Apache Commons'' é um projeto de topo de linha da
Fundação de Software Apache, isto significa que ele deve responder diretamente a
Diretoria em vez de a outros PMCs.
** [http://httpd.apache.org/ HTTP Server Project] - O Projeto do Servidor de HTTP da
Apache é um esforço para desenvolver e manter um servido HTTP de código-livre
para os modernos sistemas operacionais incluindo UNIX e Windows NT. O objetivo deste
projeto é fornecer um servidor seguro, eficiente e extensível que forneça
serviços de HTTP em sincronia com os padrões de HTTP atuais.
** [http://httpd.apache.org/docs-project/ HTTP Server Documentation Project] - O
projeto de documentação é um esforço para manter e melhorar a qualidade da
documentação incluída com o servidor de HTTP da Apache. A participação é
aberta a qualquer pessoa com tempo disponível, com conhecimentos mínimos sobre
HTML e sobre o servidor de HTTP da Apache. Não é necessário saber programar,
desta forma é uma boa oportunidade para aqueles que não sabem programar para
contribuir com o sucesso da Apache, e ter os seus trabalhos lidos por milhões de
usuários Apache.
** AntProjectPages - [http://ant.apache.org/ página do projeto] - o ''Apache Ant''
é uma ferramenta java para compilar um conjunto de aplicações que comporão um
projeto, de forma automatizada, sem a necessidade de fazer várias chamadas ao
compilador e a mecanismos de movimentação de arquivos a toda hora.
** AvalonProjectPages - o ''Apache Avalon'' fornece uma plataforma completa para
programação de componentes incluindo uma área de trabalho, utilitários,
ferramentas, componentes e compartimentos de aplicações(''containers''). Usando
padrões de criações chaves como a Inversão do Controle (IoC) e Separação das
Responsabilidade (SoC), o ''Avalon'' atinge um grande número de vantagens sobre a
tradicional forma de programação orientada a objetos.
** [[Incubator]] - O projeto incubador foi criado em outubro de 2002 para fornecer
caminhos de entrada para a Fundação de Software da Apache para projetos e bases de
códigos que desejam ser parte dos esforços da fundação. A doação de código de
organizações externas e projetos externos que querem migrar-se para a Apache irão
entrar através do ''Incubator''.
*** ApacheIncubatorProjectPages
** CocoonProjectPages - O projeto Cocoon é um framework de desenvolvimento web
construído em torno de conceitos de separação das responsabilidade e é baseado
em desenvolvimento de componentes. Ele é um ambiente de trabalho XML que aumenta o
uso das tecnologias XML e XSLT para as aplicações de servidores para novos
níveis. Criado para ter perfomance e escalabilidade em torno do processamento de
blocos SAX de informações.
** [http://wiki.apache.org/db DBProjectPages] - o projeto ''DB'' é encarregado pela
criação e manutenção de soluções de
Re: [Jakarta Wiki] Updated: Motivacao
Understand you read/understand some Portugese ? Maybe translation spam bots have seen the light ? mvgr, Martin On Mon, 2004-07-05 at 18:37, Henri Yandell wrote: Doing an automatic translation on this page yields complete crap. Random gibberings of the insane (reminds me of the book I just read, the author's persona within the book is of a man who mistakenly believes he is pretending to be insane to avoid the murder of his mother-in-law). Going to give it a little while to see if anyone admits to it, else will delete it. Hen On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: 2004-07-05T08:05:17 Editor: 143.106.2.61 Wiki: Jakarta Wiki Page: Motivacao URL: http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/Motivacao no comment Change Log: -- @@ -9,7 +9,8 @@ Toda ao memorvel na histria do mundo um triunfo do entusiasmo. Nada grande foi conseguido sem isto, porque isto proporciona desafios deixando o tempo bem ocupado, no importando o quo assustador ou difcil, proporcionando um novo significado. Sem entusiasmo voc est domesticado a uma vida de mediocridade, mas com entusiasmo voc pode realizar milagres. Sempre faa o melhor que puder. O que voc planta agora, voc ir colher depois. -Tome conscincia que a verdadeira felicidade mora dentro de voc. No desperdice tempo e esforo procurando por paz, contentamento e diverso no mundo exterior. Lembre que no h felicidade verdadeira em ter ou receber, mas apenas em dar. Estenda a mo. Compartilhe. Sorria. Abrace. Felicidade um perfume que voc no pode pulverizar nos outros sem conseguir uns respingos em voc mesmo. + + Tome conscincia que a verdadeira felicidade mora dentro de voc. No desperdice tempo e esforo procurando por paz, contentamento e diverso no mundo exterior. Lembre que no h felicidade verdadeira em ter ou receber, mas apenas em dar. Estenda a mo. Compartilhe. Sorria. Abrace. Felicidade um perfume que voc no pode pulverizar nos outros sem conseguir uns respingos em voc mesmo. Aprecie e de valor ao amor que voc recebeu at agora. Este amor ir sobreviver at muito depois que seu ouro e sua sade forem embora. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Adding project version to bugzilla
It is in the first name I think, this Martin can do it too.. Mvgr, Martin On Thu, 2004-07-22 at 14:59, Henri Yandell wrote: Any idea who the people with access to do this are Martin? Within Jakarta anyway? Hen On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Martin Cooper wrote: On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Shapira, Yoav wrote: Hi, Please remind me what I need to do / whom I need to ask that a new version (e.g. 5.0.26 and 5.0.27 for tomcat) be added to the list in Bugzilla's Version field? Asking here is fine. I've added 5.0.26 and 5.0.27 for Tomcat 5. -- Martin Cooper Thanks, Yoav Shapira Millennium Research Informatics - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can I use Hibernate in an Apache project without compromising the Apache License?
On Wed, 2004-09-29 at 13:56, Vadim Gritsenko wrote: Henning Schmiedehausen wrote: On Tue, 2004-09-28 at 11:11, Brett Porter wrote: is not ASF License compliant? If yes, than I would really hate to have to point you at http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/maven-plugins/hibernate/src/main/org/apache/maven/hibernate/beans/SchemaExportBean.java?annotate=1.7 This would compromise all Maven releases that include the maven-hibernate-plugin. We distribute Binary and Source from apache.org sites... Thanks for bringing this up. I've been meaning to respond to this thread with that in mind. I think we've checked this in the past and because the ASF is not distributing the hibernate code, there wasn't a problem (as you say, hibernate is downloaded from ibiblio when the user chooses to use the hibernate plugin). So what would the answer of the first question of Oliver (can I use Hibernate in an ASF project) now be? If I got it right; Oliver wants to implement a Slide Store that uses Hibernate as back-end. According to your answer, he could do this as part of the official Slide distribution, as long as it does not contain the hibernate.jar itself (which could be downloaded as part of the build process (maven or ant)). The problem, AFAIU, is that this Maven's code now has to become LGPL licensed itself, due to LGPL license requirements. And ASF repositories can't contain LGPL code. So the answer is to pull (quickly) this code from Maven, and not to introduce to Slide. Incorrect. Unless maven core depends on LPGL, which afaik doesn't. Just the plugins that depend on LGPL code need to become LPGL and probably need to move. The plugin architecture prevents the core from becoming infected. Somebody could setup mavendev.org (see cocoondev.org) to host (L)GPL pieces. PS Copying PMC because action is required Ehh Maven has it's own PMC... Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can I use Hibernate in an Apache project without compromising the Apache License?
No - LGPL isn't viral unless you make derivative works of the LGPL-ed code itself. Just using an LGPL-ed codebase as a library does not trigger the virality. The problem is that for java, there are questions about the clarity of the provisions in the license that prevent the virality from taking effect, which is why the ASF doesn't allow LGPLed java usage. This is a position that I'm trying to find a compromise for. Thanx for clearing that one up.. Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Which Linux distribution for Java development?
Esp jdk 1.3 was a PITA under linux. afaik sun finally fixed their bugs, so it should run a lot better.. Mvgr, Martin On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 10:13, Danny Angus wrote: One thing you *may* care about is using certified Java VM. You should also be aware that there are issues with combinations of JVM and Linux, at work we're still trying to resolve an issue with RedHat Enterprise and J2sdk 1.2.4, and there were significant issues with certain earlier redhat and 1.3 combinations. That said these tend not to be noticable in development, and only bite you in the arse when you proudly set your work free and watch it fail to cope with heavy load or fail to achieve high uptimes But as they we say in English, c'est la vie! d. *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Jakarta Http Components
+1.. Mvgr, Martin Henri Yandell wrote: So, period of comments now over, let's go ahead and vote on the creation of a Jakarta Subproject named Http Components with the following initial charter: http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta-httpclient/NewProjectCharter [ ] +1 [ ] -1 PMC votes are binding. We need consensus on the issue, so a single binding -1 (with reason) settles the vote. Vote ends on Sunday 30th October. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Notice of intent.... #2
Almost completely +1. One thing first : http://java.apache.org, redirects to archive.apache.org, while I still know people that are think java stuff stuff on apache.org is happening there, so maybe a redirect to a more friendly page could take place there ? (though this could be something for infrastructure/board). Henri Yandell wrote: * Improved Committer-PMC process. Chair's responsibility (I've failed at this so far) is to turn around the new committer process. A new committer of 6 months is effectively voted against going to the PMC, not for. Might not be able to make it exactly that way, but the idea being that joining the PMC is the exception, not the norm. Personally I'd like to see committership be removed if people repeatedly are not allowed onto the PMC. Just to make sure I get what you are saying : If you become a committer on jakarta, a vote will be helt automatically after 6 months (initiated by you/the Chair?), but not to accept the committer, but to not accept the committer becoming a member of the PMC ? Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta stats
Noel J. Bergman wrote: Danny Angus wrote: I'm one of the 1) Inactive PMC members Define inactive. Inactive as a committer? Inactive as a PMC member providing oversight to Jakarta projects? I'm in the former category, as are many, but I still actively monitor several project lists, even if I only post when I have something specific to contribute. Maybe an order in which a cleanup can be persued : 1) People who are committer and don't have a CLA on file. In short : people with disabled accounts. (don't remember if there was a follow action on that to completely remove these users?) 1a) People who are just committer on projects that no longer exist (eg jakarta-alexandria) 2) People who are committer, did commit some files and then were never heard of again. 3) People who are committer, did do some serious work and vanished. 4) People who are on the PMC and aren't active committers and aren't active participants. 5) People who are on the PMC and their project moved to another PMC and aren't active participants. Activity doesn't mean just committing. For all points : skip members of the foundation. 1 is most likely the case for people who moved on to something else. With points 2 till 5 we could check if they are still on mailinglists and we could send them a polite mail (content varying, depending if on PMC or not) asking what their future plans are. The result can be a couple of things (probably depending on the response) : - Leave it as is - Move them to emuritus - Remove them. or - Vote on them (?) Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta stats
Vadim Gritsenko wrote: Martin van den Bemt wrote: The result can be a couple of things (probably depending on the response) : - Leave it as is - Move them to emuritus Above two are the only acceptable choices for folks with valid accounts. We can discuss means and mechanisms of moving to emeritus and back, but removing folks who fall into groups 2) to 5) is unacceptable - all IMHO. Removing can also be started on request of the committer... So the third option is acceptable. (it is happening as we speak btw : Jeff Dever, see infrastructure list). Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta stats
Hi Jeff, Jeff Dever wrote: I guess I consider myself to be a category 3: 3) People who are committer, did do some serious work and vanished. Hmm I miss the part about vanishing, you clearly are monitoring lists ? The situation is simply that I am unable to work on Jakarta any further. HttpClient is very very active and I am pleased that development continues under the Apache umbrella. I'm not sure what, in this context, it means to be moved to 'emuritus'. I appreciate recognition of past work, but I don't feel my contributions warrant such a title. (from http://www.apache.org/foundation/glossary.html) Emeritus A term used to formally designate someone as no longer active, but still entitled to all of the rights and privileges of the position. For example, an ASF member who hasn't attended any membership meetings for a long time is declared emeritus; someone who no longer has time to work on a particular project may declare itself emeritus. Emeritus status indicates interest but not activity, as opposed to having resigned. You decide for yourself :) Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: jakarta struts binary
Try it via http://struts.apache.org.. Mvgr, Martin John Armstrong wrote: I'm trying to learn java struts and an old Jakarta Struts book is telling me to go to jakarta.apache.org for the jakarta struts binary. When I go there there's no mention of such under downloads. There's just Struts under Ex-Jakarta, and when I go there, there's numerous downloads besides Jakarta Struts Binary. How can I get the Jakarta Struts binary for Windows? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] ApacheCon EU 2006
+1 :) The Dutch will get to the finals anyway and I don't want to miss out on that :) Mvgr, Martin Henning Schmiedehausen wrote: (Catching up with my mail. Holidays are a wonderful thing...) You are surely aware of the fact that this is right on top of the round of 16 and quarter-final games of The World Cup, aren't you? (Well, Ireland hasn't qualified and England and the U.S.A. will be home by then, so it might be just a problem for us Germans... ;-) However, IMHO you probably should plan to get T.V. sets in the common areas and no talks scheduled after 4pm... :-) And beer of course. ;-) Best regards Henning On Sat, 2006-02-18 at 09:48 +, robert burrell donkin wrote: The ApacheCon Planners have announced that ApacheCon Europe 2006 will be held in Dublin, Ireland, at the Burlington Hotel (http://www.jurysdoyle.com/ireland/doyle_burlington.htm), June 26-30. Further details to follow as they are available. Robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Representing project inactivity on the site
Just zap alexandria (we just zapped the mailinglist too). We can look at it as being promoted to TLP anyway (gump). ORO and Regexp ar kind of finished I thought, we should mark it stable or something like that. Don't know about ECS though. Mvgr, Martin Henri Yandell wrote: I really shouldn't be sending multiple emails at the same time - you'll all jsut end up replying to one of them. However, itching while the itch is present. Alexandria is dead. We need to represent it as so on the site. ECS, ORO, Regexp are inactive development-wise - represent - site. Slide, POI, Turbine, JCS seem pretty inactive - should we represent such? What labels should we use? I suggest: * Delete Alexandria. It's at the same level as the java-* CVS stuff, ancient history to be forgotten. * ECS, ORO, Regexp to be moved to a label of Inactive. * Others to be raised as questions separately and voted on. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Submitting patches
Agreed and +1 to the changes.. sebb wrote: Generally I find that patches are much easier to process as Bugzilla attachments, rather than sent to the developer list as an attachment. And if the patch is large, it uses everyones mail resources, most of whom aren't interested. Just received such a patch on JMeter - the poster helpfully has a blog where he says that he followed the guidelines in: http://jakarta.apache.org/site/source.html#Patches which do indeed suggest sending patches to the developer mailing list. I'd like to suggest a change, so that the preferred method of submitting patches is via Bugzilla or JIRA. In the case of projects using JIRA, I believe that asks for a software grant, so it's important that code is submitted that way. [Actually, I'm not sure when emailed patches are appropriate...] In short : with very simple patches (eg fixing a typo in the docs) I think a patch as attachment is appropiate. Instead of applying the patch I will simply correct the typo by hand.. So it could be usefull to mention this. Though I prefer code patches to be in an issue tracker, so it is traceable (at least if people add the issuenumber in the commit message) Mvgr, Martin I'd also like to split the patch section into two: Patch Creation Patch Submission Any objections to this? If not, I'll make a start on updating the text - and put a copy on my home page for review. Sebastian (sebb AT AO) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Remove SVN restrictions
+1 Mvgr, Martin Henri Yandell wrote: Vote to remove the SVN barriers within Jakarta such that all jakarta-* groups are merged into the one jakarta group with the exception of jakarta-hivemind, jakarta-slide, jakarta-cactus and jakarta-jmeter under the assumption that they are moving to having their own PMCs. Tapestry is already within its own auth group. [ ] +1 [ ] -1 If your -1 is only for a particular subproject (ie: you don't care what the rest of Jakarta does, feel free to say so). - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Move Jakarta Cactus/JMeter to new Testing TLP
The options are: [X] +1 I am favorable to the move and would like to contribute to the new TLP [ ] +1 I am favorable to the move but would not be participating in the new TLP [ ] +0 it does not matter to me [ ] -1 I am against it because Same motivation as Yoav and Rahul.. Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
JIRA admin
Hi, Does anyone know the names of people doing jakarta JIRA admin ? First goal is to get added to all jakarta projects ([EMAIL PROTECTED]), second goal is to add this information to the wiki.. Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JIRA admin
It's a start, but that list just specifies the owner (who is admin).. Rather have a couple of names that can handle all jakarta projects.. Mvgr, Martin Ortwin Glück wrote: Martin van den Bemt wrote: Hi, Does anyone know the names of people doing jakarta JIRA admin ? Are you looking for this? http://issues.apache.org/jira/secure/Administrators.jspa Cheers Ortwin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JIRA admin
Would be usefull to add me to JIRA admin (I know what I am doing, did jira admin at codehaus) :) Mvgr, Martin Henri Yandell wrote: There are two different concepts of admin. Firstly, there's a jakarta-admin group; which has the ability to administer projects that use the jakarta permission scheme. Secondly there's jira admin, which is needed to add people to the jakarta groups. Anyone on the PMC is eligible for the jakarta-admin group; while there are about a hundred people in the jira admin group so usually quite easy to find someone. Irritating that there's no way to add people to the group without being a global jira admin; need to request that feature of atlassian as it seems desirable. I've added you to jakarta-admin and jakarta-dev. Should I add to jira-admin? Hen On Thu, 29 Jun 2006, Martin van den Bemt wrote: Hi, Does anyone know the names of people doing jakarta JIRA admin ? First goal is to get added to all jakarta projects ([EMAIL PROTECTED]), second goal is to add this information to the wiki.. Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: State of Slide project
Henning Schmiedehausen wrote: Hm, We should make the effort to distinguish between stable projects/code and dormant/dead code. Totally agree.. Though we have to figure out if slide is dormant or mature. I cannot judge if it is one or the other. Based on the stuff I read on it (eg jackrabbit-dev), it seems more like dormant then mature though. Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: State of Slide project
Henri Yandell wrote: How about creating a Dormant section on the LHS under Subprojects and kicking off a vote to put ORO, Regexp, Slide, Alexandria (I know, it's dead but simpler to put under Dormant for the moment), and ECS into it? We should just zap alexandria, or say just like other projects that it is ex jakarta and point it to gump. Although maven saw it's first light there, the main development effort of maven happened in the turbine project anyway. I would be really surprised if people are still doing something with the original alexandria code. I tried to use it in 2000 and I think after that there wasn't much improvement (aside from gump) Another thing is we probably should close down some mailinglists of mature components and let discussion move to general (as you already proposed in the past if I remember correctly and which is already happening a bit). The Incubator are going to be putting Agila into dormancy I think - so we can simply delete that link. Did we already request that to the incubator ? Since incubator is expecting us to request it, as we are the sponsoring PMC. Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: site change checked in, can't do svn up
You have to do that on people.apache.org in the /www/jakarta.apache.org/site directory... I done the update for you already :) Mvgr, Martin Danny Angus wrote: Hi, I've removed the refrence to the patepstry lists from http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html But i can't log in to www from hete to do svn update, Please could someone do this for me? d. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Help Required
Hi Santosh, The main reason we forward people to the correct list (in this case jmeter-user), since the people that are subscribed to jmeter-user are more likely to be able to answer your question correctly, than people on general (who aren't necessarily people how are actively involved in jmeter). About asking a question to a member of this group, I assume you mean asking a question directly to one of the jmeter experts. The problem with asking it in private, that you are not doing the community a favor with your question. Every question and answer is (or could be) interesting for the community and posting your questions on the (appropriate) list also prevents people from asking the same question again. It also is possible that the person you have chosen to mail doesn't have the time to answer your question (or doesn't know the answer) and with sending the question to the list other people can answer your question. Hope that helps in your understanding why you are best off sending your questions to the correct list. Mvgr, Martin Santosh Kumar wrote: Hi Chris, I am sorry to say if i am rude I asked the same questions from one of the member in this group who keep posting his answers regularly to the group i got this reply from him these questions should go to jmeter-user. please post the question there Come on guys, if you can't help someone then please be quite rather then asking someone to freak here and there. I appreciate your response and for sure i will put my request in that group as well. Regards, S -Original Message- From: C. Grobmeier [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 3:11 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Help Required -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Cheers, please ask this at the JMeter User-List: Subscribe to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html#JMeter - - Chris Santosh Kumar wrote: Hi All, I need your help, i am completely new to JMeter and not able to understand the thing. I have few questions: 1. Can i record any script in JMeter? 2. If not then how can i write new test plan? I guess these things would be enough for a kick start. I hope that you will turn back as you all replying for other quires in the group. Thanks in advance. Regards, Santosh Kumar - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.1 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFE0xYekv8rKBUE/T4RAjcJAJ4sTA2af2i3KzO1DmZ7/AK4ct6prQCbBtBX HQ+TpJSTgg+jfqZkhtoyPAE= =jXPx -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Opening up the PMC
Just catching up on mail (and pretty tired, so forgive me if not everything is clear / using words not in an English dictionary. ) Henri Yandell wrote: What do people think to the following: 1) Every existing committer not on the pmc receives an email asking if they would like to join the pmc. Once that email is sent they are marked in a file as having had the email sent and we can wash our hands until a reply comes in. 2) Every new committer automatically gets added to the pmc. I am -1 on both, at least not at this point of time. As you noted yourself, we have over 400 committers currently in Jakarta, which is a huge number. Being on the PMC means project oversight, legal protection and having binding votes about releases. Do committers who have been inactive for a long time and are not on the PMC have actually a need to be on the PMC to be able to correctly carry out their inactiveness ? I prefer the path the previous chair (wink) had chosen, to at least at the date people were made committer and monitor those people where possible and at least ping the nominator (who is hopefully also a kind of mentor to the new committer) after a period in time to ask how everything is going and if it could be time to get him or her nominated for the PMC. Phil also proposed the self-nominations. Directly asking for being something (being a committer / PMC Member, the CEO at a company, etc) is not considered good practice normally, since your actions should be nominating you, which is, in my view, happening currently, although maybe not as well as we probably want it to be. I will make some time this weekend to restructure and update the current pmc documents in subversion to be able to easier to keep track of people (not meant as a big brother thing, but more as a we shouldn't forget thing). If no one really needs this, than I will do it for just myself, since I tend to misplace names a lot. --- I bring it up because the concept has cropped up elsewhere at the ASF and given our large non-pmc to pmc ratio I think we'll have a lot of strong views on the subject. This ratio is not a very good measurement in the Jakarta case. A better ratio is when you add active committers that are on the pmc and not on the pmc. My gutt feeling says the ratio could probably be better (as Oleg just noticed), but is not completely broken. Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Opening up the PMC
Torsten Curdt wrote: But if you argue into that direction -no matter how often this has been discussed already- I would rather question the idea of an umbrella PMC then... (*ducks*) Time and energy to express the ideas you have in that direction ? Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
License headers not all at version 2.0..
Hi everyone, Just did a quick scan on some projects and it seems not all license headers were changed to version 2.0. So I ask all projects to have a look at this. Just a couple of projects that I scanned : - Bcel : clean - bsf : not clean - cactus : not clean (some xsl file) - ecs : clean - jcs : clean - jmeter : not clean (package.html files in htmlparser) - turbine : clean after one fix. Didn't scan the rest :) I am just talking trunk here. Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [intent] Retiring Alexandria
+1.. Although completely zapping Alexendria references, is also fine by me :) Mvgr, Martin Henri Yandell wrote: I think that the Incubator has the right concept/label in retiring projects, so I plan to create a link on the right hand side of the Jakarta site called Retired Projects and to create a retired page that contains links to the Alexandria site and the java.apache.org site. If anyone feels -1-like, then go for it else I'll do it on Friday evening. Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jakarta BOF @ apachecon USA
Hi fellow Jakartians, I welcome everyone going to Apachecon to the Jakarta BOF (which I just registered in the Wiki, assuming that is sufficient to have the BOF take place). I just put it at a certain date and time, though details are not known yet. The main reason for the BOF is to discuss the future of Jakarta, with me being moderator and giving the initial data of what the current thoughts are on this, based on discussions that happened on the mailinglist. Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta BOF @ apachecon USA
Cool :) Let's do this at dinner, since there are only 2 of us ;) Mvgr, Martin Torsten Curdt wrote: +1 cool bananas ..will be there cheers -- Torsten On 8/22/06, Martin van den Bemt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi fellow Jakartians, I welcome everyone going to Apachecon to the Jakarta BOF (which I just registered in the Wiki, assuming that is sufficient to have the BOF take place). I just put it at a certain date and time, though details are not known yet. The main reason for the BOF is to discuss the future of Jakarta, with me being moderator and giving the initial data of what the current thoughts are on this, based on discussions that happened on the mailinglist. Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: problems with JIRA
I tried downloading all attachments and I have no problems.. Not saying this is a solution, but it could be : logout, relogin or remove jira cookies (just guessing here :) Mvgr, Martin Will Glass-Husain wrote: Anyone having problems with JIRA? We have an issue (VELOCITY-453) that half of the uploaded patches aren't accessible -- I reliably get a Tomcat error when downloading. Very frustrating -- hopefully not too discouraging for the new contributor. I files a bug report with infrastructure but haven't heard back. https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-933 WILL - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tracking Jakarta Software Dependencies
You have scope and optional as dependency parameters. The combination of the 2 can provide what you are thinking about. Although not sure the dependency report will make a separate list out of them. (but this is better for discussing on the maven user list I guess) Mvgr, Martin Henning Schmiedehausen wrote: Hi, you just touched a raw nerve with me... :-) As long as maven (at least maven 1, don't know about maven 2 yet) doesn't differentiate between * Compile dependencies (mandatory and optional) * Runtime dependencies (mandatory and optional) then IMHO the dependencies page not really useful. A small example: Velocity has two optional dependencies: java.util.logging.Logger and javax.sql.DataSource. - If you don't have them at compile time, two classes will not be compiled. You will never miss them -- No runtime dependency. Any tool analyzing a jar built without these present at compile time will ever pick up this dependency. - If you have them at compile time, you will get two additional classes in the jar. One allows you to log into jdk 1.4, the other to load templates from a JDBC data source. - If you have these two additional classes in your velocity jar, you get java.util.logging.Logger and javax.sql.DataSource as *optional* runtime dependencies. You don't need them *unless* you want to use one of the scenarios described above. But the core functionality of Velocity, which 99% of all users use, *DO NOT NEED THEM*. However, in most of the Velocity documentation you will read Velocity requires the jdbc_2.0.jar And find it listed in dependency lists. And bazillions of Velocity based applications drag this completely unneeded jar around. Which sucks. Hard. No JDK since 1.4 needs this. If you look at a project like Turbine or Struts, you get drowned in optional, compile and runtime dependencies. Maintaining these by hand is a nightmare and doing it automatically will not list what is optional and what is not. What is basically needed is: - What are the core dependencies? - What are the additional dependencies for the optional bell, whistle. - What are the minimum compile dependencies for building? - What can be optionally included for compiling. These requirements have been recognized a long time ago. I don't know any build tool that is able to do this automatically. I'd love to be educated that e.g. maven 2 can do this. Best regards Henning Ortwin Glück schrieb: Dependencies: the Maven generated page on the project site lists them. I strongly discourage manually maintaining them in a separate location. JDK version: what a mess. IMHO this is THE information that is missing on almost ANY project page out there. As a user I expect this information close to where I obtain the artifact. That is: on the download page and in the README. So let's put the JDK compat information into these places. Ortwin Daniel F. Savarese wrote: Hi All, I and other Jakarta committers received an email today from a developer at Wachovia pointing out how difficult it is to discover library and JDK dependencies for Jakarta subprojects as a whole, even though his main focus was Commons. I couldn't really dispute his observation upon trying to find dependency information for a couple of software releases. Would it be useful to start a Wiki page containing a table where after each software release, we list the library and JDK dependencies/compatibility for the release? Or would it be better to simply agree on a common place in each subproject's Web page hierarchy to list that information? Interest for easy access to this information appears to be coming from corporate developers using older JDK versions who are having a hard time figuring out what's compatible with what. daniel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tracking Jakarta Software Dependencies
That policy is just for you ;) Mvgr, Martin Henning Schmiedehausen wrote: I do object to the everyone must build with maven 2 policy. :-) Best regards Henning - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Move Velocity to TLP
+1.. Mvgr, Martin Nathan Bubna wrote: The Velocity project has for some time now been making plans for a proposal to the board that the Velocity projects leave the Jakarta umbrella and become their own top level project. Martin has asked us to hold a vote on the proposal here before he passes it along to the board. So... The proposal is available for your perusal at: http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/TLPVelocity For the interested, most of the discussion took place on the following thread: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=11553094014r=1w=2 And the vote happens here: [ ] +1 I support the proposal [ ] +0 I don't care [ ] -1 I'm opposed to the proposal because... Thanks! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: jakarta.apache.org down?
Hmm preferred the dutch version :) Mvgr, Martin Henri Yandell wrote: The ISP appear to be having problems. Joe's on it and will be moving to the backups (minotaur) if they don't have things fixed soon enough (few hours). Babelfish translation of the surfnet.nl info: quasi: There is at present SURFnet network jamming as a result of which a number of IP does not cram of outside SURFnet contactable is. In any case the CIDR ranges 192.87.0.0/16 and 195.169.0.0/16 and probably a number of other address block-systems has this problem. Customers who IP addresses these use block-systems, because of this IP at present no will have connectivity with the outside world Hen On 9/18/06, Will Glass-Husain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: anyone have info on this? Just wondering... -- Forio Business Simulations Will Glass-Husain [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.forio.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[VOTE] Remove POI svn restrictions.
Hi everyone, You probably think Hey I have seen a similar vote started by Henri on 27-3-2006 and the outcome was 3 -1 from POI so their SVN is still closed for Jakarta committers. The reasoning behind this is that POI is still trying to stick to what it Jakarta once was and it is time they join the club completely. [+1] Open up POI svn commit access. [-1] Don't open POI svn commit access, because... The vote will be open for a week. Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Remove POI svn restrictions.
Which legal team ? Apache legal doesn't know anything about this.. Mvgr, Martin Nick Burch wrote: On Fri, 15 Dec 2006, Martin van den Bemt wrote: The reasoning behind this is that POI is still trying to stick to what it Jakarta once was and it is time they join the club completely. I think it was actually a reccomendation from the legal team. We have always asked that anyone contributing code to POI make a statement that they haven't ever seen any Microsoft file format docs under an NDA or similar. So, I'm voing (non binding) [-1], unless legal say it's now OK to let people commit without having made such a public statement. Nick - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Remove POI svn restrictions.
ehh +1 :) Mvgr, Martin Martin van den Bemt wrote: Hi everyone, You probably think Hey I have seen a similar vote started by Henri on 27-3-2006 and the outcome was 3 -1 from POI so their SVN is still closed for Jakarta committers. The reasoning behind this is that POI is still trying to stick to what it Jakarta once was and it is time they join the club completely. [+1] Open up POI svn commit access. [-1] Don't open POI svn commit access, because... The vote will be open for a week. Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Remove POI svn restrictions.
-1 from me. Harmony doesn't let anyone commit on their project unless they they sign a statement saying they haven't looked at Sun's source code[1]. AFAIK this is a similar issue and the POI policy [2] is designed to protect POI, which as a user of POI is a good thing IMO. Even if this fear is actually unfounded seems like a sensible policy to err on the side of caution. Just FYI, the policy doesn't mean anything legally, so it doesn't help anyone. We have the ICLA that covers that. Keeping POI SVN closed, is as far as I could see, just based on the assumption that it means something. Besides that if this is a policy of some kind, where are the records ? Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Remove POI svn restrictions.
Every legal document has to be on file and known to the secretary and he has no knowledge of such documents, so from an ASF point of view, this is non existing. If there is something on file I would love to hear where. Mvgr, Martin Roland Weber wrote: Henri Yandell wrote: Reasoning being that Martin has done the same thing I did - asked legal vp and secretary if they know anything about the need for POI to be legally special and they don't. Then either the ASF legal team wasn't involved in the discussion Andy mentioned, or the current staff doesn't remember it, or their assessment of the situation is different from Andy's. Who can shed some light on this? cheers, Roland - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Remove POI svn restrictions.
Will Glass-Husain wrote: Andy-- No one was going to railroad this through without input from POI. See my previous email where I insisted that we have POI participation. (and I would have -1'd this automatically if it had been lacking). The discussion was civil up until recently. I am wondering about this vote though. Why now? and what's the significance of POI/Jakarta svn access merging? To me it seems the flattening of svn is of little significance. After a year with the new structure, I see individual cases where committers have cross-pollinated (in commons, perhaps) but it hasn't seemed to make a big impact for many subprojects. It's the special position I have problems with. So, then - Martin - why are you calling for a vote? Is there a pressing need to get access to POI svn? Are there patches being submitted but not going in? Are you just trying to clean up Jakarta, make it more definable? Or is there something going on with POI that we should discuss publically? See my reply to Andy for this. (if you cannot find it i'll try to find a link). There's a reasonable discussion that could be held about the role of POI and Jakarta. Maybe we should have that discussion instead of voting on a controversial but practically insignificant issue. That is what I planned after this vote, based on the result. This vote gives a nice view on the fact if they even want to be part of Jakarta. Andy doesn't looking at his reply of going TLP, Incubator (?) or moving out of Apache. The part that sparked this vote, is the releases that were made (not blaming Nick here, I think he is definitely an asset to Jakarta!) and it was made very clearly that POI needs mentoring from other Jakarta people, which cannot happen if they want to keep the gates closed. Opening the gates is a first step in the right direction. Hope that answers your question / concerns. Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Remove POI svn restrictions.
Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Hey I have an idea! If it doesn't pass this time we can call another vote right before the next holiday and hope that none of the POI PMC members are around... Then 3 months later do it again. This is a different vote. This one is specific about POI. The previous vote was about opening the whole of Jakarta and if certain projects had objections they could state that. And when I do things is up to me, you don't own my time, as much as I don't own your time. The main problem here is that (correcting you here) Jakarta PMC Members that represent POI are not around when they need to do their job of giving oversight. Stop blaming others (in this case me and Henri) and start looking in the right direction. My intentions here are good, hence the reason why the vote was so generic (just opening up svn karma), so POI can leave the Island and is willing to accept help from our other Jakarta folks. That opposed to state to the board that I cannot be responsible for POI anymore. Currently I just see you screaming and shouting, instead of giving useful feedback. And pointing to the legal issues that you think merits the svn karma limitation : Since you are not appointed by the board to handle POI's legal issues (if they even are there), you should send and inform the PMC of the history, reasoning and records that you have, so the proper person (in this case I was appointed for Jakarta) can take that info to the board and discuss the situation and get an official position on that. -1 (because my votes don't seem to be counted and Henri will make up backstory for me) Your because isn't much of a reason, since your vote was counted and as you can see in this vote: SVN permission stayed closed. The problem here is that the reasons that were given at that time, don't seem to apply (which is something I learned at Apachecon), hence the new vote. What you mean by Henri making up backstory for you, I don't know exactly, but he just states the way he knows / heard, so if he is wrong, please share the truth with us. Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Remove POI svn restrictions.
Niall Pemberton wrote: On 12/16/06, Martin van den Bemt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -1 from me. Harmony doesn't let anyone commit on their project unless they they sign a statement saying they haven't looked at Sun's source code[1]. AFAIK this is a similar issue and the POI policy [2] is designed to protect POI, which as a user of POI is a good thing IMO. Even if this fear is actually unfounded seems like a sensible policy to err on the side of caution. Just FYI, the policy doesn't mean anything legally, so it doesn't help anyone. We have the ICLA that covers that. Keeping POI SVN closed, is as far as I could see, just based on the assumption that it means something. Besides that if this is a policy of some kind, where are the records ? Why is it any different than Harmony? If someone has received knowledge of MS propriety formats under a NDA then wouldn't using that knowledge to contribute to POI put the POI project at risk? If the ICLA means that legally from an ASF POV it doesn't matter since the responsibility/liability would be with the contributor then the same logic could be applied to harmony. Seems to me that even if the ASF is covered at the end of the day avoiding a legal issue with a big entity such as MS is far more desirable than getting into a tangle in the first place. I am not saying the legal stuff would be bad, just that currently nothing is in place to have that covered. With harmony this is a Harmony policy, which is handled by the PMC and there are records and the board is aware of this. So effectively we don't have anything in place, just a statement on the website, so if we needed any protection based on the NDA stuff, we don't have anything to show for. I cannot start with getting the legal stuff figured out when POI is acting as it's own entity, without even any oversight from the Jakarta PMC members representing POI. But I think I made that point clear in some of the replies i've given. I also think its a mistake to deal with whatever issues people think there are in POI via a vote. Back in March the POI devs voted to exclude POI from this policy of opening SVN access. If we think the reason underlying POI's exclusion from this policy is not valid then it would have been far better to start a discussion with them regarding this first - rather than launching straight into a vote. I'd have rather seem an attempt at consensus first rather than going straight for conflict. I could have started this in another way, although I doubt consensus would be reached if I did that another way. POI is living in it's own universe currently (we are even talking about them) and since this issue concerns the whole of Jakarta and things need to happen now,because of the lack of oversight given by the PMC members representing POI. Opening up POI is a first step in the right direction, next steps would be mentoring the POI project, get the legal issue straightened out (that is making an official Jakarta policy if that is needed and having official records). Alternatives like POI going TLP (as was mentioned by a couple of people) would also be an option, so that they deal with the board directly, but since the POI committers aren't ready for that (see the mentoring part), that would be a hard case to sell. Seems to me that svn access isn't the root of the issue here and therefore a red herring, since changing that isn't IMO going to resolve whatever the real issues people think there are. svn access is the first step towards improvement. Svn access for me *is* a real issue, I think the vote made that clear. Don't forget the vote in March where everyone voted +1 except the POI committers. Now we are 8 months further and it is time they join the majority in my opinion. If they want to have separate svn access at this time, I think they are stating that they do not want to be part of Jakarta. Mvgr, Martin Niall Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Remove POI svn restrictions.
Niall Pemberton wrote: On 12/17/06, Roland Weber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Niall, Why is it any different than Harmony? Harmony requires that an Authorized Contributor Questionnaire be signed. The ACQ surely has been reviewd by the ASF legal team, and signatures are legally significant. http://harmony.apache.org/auth_cont_quest.html The POI Get Involved page only mentions this: Those submitting patches that show insight into the file format may be asked to state explicitly that they are eligible or possibly sign an agreement. http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/getinvolved/index.html may be? possibly? Did the ASF legal team prepare such a document for signing or not? If they did, shouldn't it be linked on the web page? And why isn't every contributor required to state or sign something? Who decides who will have to state or sign? And who will process and keep track of the statements or signed documents if not the ASF legal team, who obviously are not aware of any such thing? If there is an established procedure addressing these questions, it should be documented on the web page. If there is not, the statement quoted above is just idle. I agree there should be an established policy endorsed by the PMC. My fear is that Andy Oliver either won't have the patience to do what it takes or fail to get anywhere because he pi**es off too many people in the process. Hopefully he'll prove me wrong or someone else from POI will sort it out. I simply don't care to be honest. Nick is doing lot's of work for POI, without any guidance from the people you anticipate of giving guidance, which is what I care about. So my first goal is helping out Nick so he can continue the good work he is doing over there. If someone has received knowledge of MS propriety formats under a NDA then wouldn't using that knowledge to contribute to POI put the POI project at risk? Yes it would. That's why the page mentions that people with access to NDA'd information are not allowed to contribute. As far as I can tell, there is no discussion about this policy. There is a discussion about access restrictions in SVN. Let me throw the following statements/opinions into this discussion: 1. Jakarta committers have proven that they are responsible developers, otherwise they wouldn't have been voted committers. 2. No responsible developer would just commit some code to a Jakarta subproject with which he/she is not familiar, or ignore the rules and policies in place for that subproject. Generally this is true, although I have seen a couple of occasions where committers have made code changes on Commons components they had no prior involvement with without pinging the mailing list first. And we educated those people. 3. If current committers show interest in contributing to the POI subproject, they will make an appearance on the mailing lists and submit patches to the bug tracking system for review. There is plenty of opportunity to educate them about the policy and to question them about possible NDA contamination. 4. If anyone would commit unwanted/dangerous code to POI (directly without patch review!) that contribution would immediately be detected from the commit message that is automatically generated, and would be vetoed and undone by the regular committers to the subproject. This discussion is about removing technical barriers in SVN, not about throwing random (barbed ;-) code into POI. It's about running a community based on mutual trust and review as opposed to walls and fences. At least that's how I see it. Personally I'm +/-0 on removing svn barriers anyway. I don't believe any exisiting committer that starts to contribute to a project in the normal way isn't going to get given commit access pretty quickly. Anyway generally I don't disagree with the sentiments/opinions you've expressed - but I do think POI has grounds for a slightly different policy than most of our code bases since what they deal with is the IP of a large company that if infringed could cause us problems in the same way as with Harmony and Sun's source code. IMO then the contrubuting policy for POI needs to be resolved/formally established first and svn access should be decided afterwards once we have a policy endorsed by the PMC. The first problem we have to deal with is that releases aren't done the way the ASF wants them to be done, which is currently the legal issue at hand. Part of the problem is that they (sorry bad word choices coming here) don't trust the rest of Jakarta of doing the right thing and the rest of Jakarta trusts them to do the right thing. They have proven they don't do the right thing atm (to be clear : not blaming Nick here!), which hurts Jakarta as a whole. Maybe repeating myself here :) Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional
Re: [VOTE] Remove POI svn restrictions.
Hi Avik, Avik Sengupta wrote: Wow! The one weekend I decide not to check mail!! :) I know what you mean :) Am replying to the original message for convenience, but have read the thread till this point. Basically, the amount of negativity towards POI project in the thread seems seems quite painful. At the end of the day, I believe we keep saying 'Apache is about communities'. Legal oversight is important, but if its at the cost of destroying a community, what's the use? I would have voted -1 on this, not because of legal reasons (which I don't have too strong a view on any more) but because I do not understand the need for this current intervention. 'Majority' does not seem to be a good enough reason. Errors in build which have been promised a fix does not seem a big enuf reason either. I like to know your reason of the -1, despite of what has already been said (and despite of what is said below here) How can we determine what the next appropriate step is if you don't speak up ? However, given the strongly negative tone of this thread, I do not wish to debate this further. Therefore count me in as a 'don't care any more' If you have anything positive to contribute, let me know. I can think of a couple : A lot of development is being done, user list are healthy, so enough to invest energy in. The simple fact is that you are currently part of Jakarta and POI doesn't seem to realize that or to misuse your words don't care about that. Everything that affects POI actually affects Jakarta. I've been a VP Jakarta for about 6 months now and I actually never had the feeling that POI was part of that, even though I am the one who his held accountable of what happens at POI. With the releases going bad, even though there is PMC representation for POI, was the ultimate trigger for this vote as an initial start to improve things and after that taking the next steps (I summed them up already). So your remark about don't care anymore is not making me very happy, since I hoped you would start caring, although I hope I misinterpreted that remark and making assumptions that are wrong. The big problem is that no one from POI is actually making any effort to clear any misinterpretations and assumptions. Hope you understand what I am trying to say. I'd have been happy seeing POI move to a TLP. However, some of the comments in this thread seem to preclude that possibility either. I think his leaves the community between a rock and a hard place ... I dont want us to be subsumed as a commons project Subsuming is not something I see happening, we already have enough sub sub projects. The total projects in Jakarta is currently at 109 (only sub projects and projects without sub projects are counted). Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Board Report December
Jakarta Board Report First of all I like to mention that I haven't be able to spent the time I wanted to spend, which is something I will try to improve. I like to request special attention is given to the POI subproject section in the report. Another improvement should be that the majority of the report should come from the community, which I am totally failing to delegate atm. I will start actively persuing additions to the board report by our Jakarta committers when events occur. I don't see this as a community problem, the failure is completely mine. Apachecon Austin was my first visit to apachecon and it was a great experience to meet the people I haven't met in person yet. One of the things I had planned was the Jakarta BOF, where I had the idea to give a presentation and get feedback on other peoples thoughts about Jakarta. It gave me some more insight in projects I didn't have too much knowledge about and the nature of the BOF turned out to be more of free discussion and thought outlet. On my todo list is to extract the points that were identified as needing attention and send them to the general list for discussion. Most important on that list is the identity of Jakarta, easy access information of the state the projects are in and Jakarta being more proactive of getting people aboard on the less active or non active projects. Another idea the recently popped up is having experienced mentors assigned to projects. With a 100+ projects this seems like a good idea (see JCS for an example of this) PMC : New pmc members: Nick Burch Roland Weber Change : Dany Angus requested to be removed from the PMC. Not acted upon this yet, since he is an ASF member, a change in the committee-info.txt probably is sufficient. New committers : Jurgen Hoffmann was voted on to be able to commit to Jakarta. He earned this because of his devotion on Turbine. Antoine Levy-Lambert, so he can work on Slide (on his own request and voted on by the PMC). Releases : - HttpComponents HttpCore 4.0-alpha3 - Commons Digester 1.8 - Commons Discovery 0.4 - Commons DbUtils 1.1 - Commons Validator 1.3.1 - Commons HttpClient 3.1-beta1 - BSF 2.4.0 - Commons Lang 2.2 - Commons Configuration 1.3 Not yet project commons-ssl: There were announcements on the httpcomponents list (and on the tomcat list) about a release of commons-ssl, which in real life isn't a commons project at all, but an external project, with the intention of joining Jakarta. An CLA is on file and currently an envelope is on the way to Jim, since his employer wants to have a signed copy back. I asked Julius Davies if he could start a proposal on the Jakarta to discuss if we could sponsor the donation. The thread kind of died and I will restart the thread when the paperwork is handled. place. Julies fixed the naming of commons-ssl by calling it Not-Yet-Commons-ssl, with giving an explenation. Link can be found here : http://juliusdavies.ca/commons-ssl/ Projects (currently 15 main projects) BCEL Bcel hardly has any activity and during the BOF I learned that Torsten Curdt adopted BCEL. With the Google summer of code Torsten mentored 1 person working on BCEL and BCEL supports 1.5 now. It could be worth investigating if the 2 forks of BCEL that are out there (Findbugs and AspectJ) can be merged back to BCEL itself, however Torsten said that both forks probably don't want to invest there time in a merge, since the current situation works for them. Currently BCEL is considered legacy and since projects are using it, it is still maintained. If there are signals of people wanting to become active, we will definitely take that opportunity. BSF After about 4 years of no releases, BSF finally got their release, which was in the Apachecon press release. Since the release things have become a bit more quiet and the user list still points to fact that not a lot of users have picked up on the release yet, since there were problems with the downloadscript. It will probably also take time to get the users back that were lost in the past by not having any releases. Personal note : I would like to thank the BSF committers for doing a great job. Cactus Cactus is currently unmaintained. There are still users, but most questions don't get an answer. A lot of people also are wondering if maven2 will be supported and with what j2ee versions cactus will work. There is definitely work to do here (Cargo integration comes to mind). Commons Commons has 33 proper, 11 sandbox and 16 dormant subprojects. Currently there is a huge release boom going on at commons. After past problems with votes not getting any attention I think things have picked up for the better and most votes get attention. The situation is still not perfect and still needs focus. ECS ECS is mature / dormant. The dev list had it's last noise in August. The user list didn't have any traffic since April, which kind of looks like there isn't a user base. Will make this an agenda item. HttpComponents Currently
Re: Board Report December
Replying to myself :) People I am doing something wrong. The board report should be created by the committers, with a personal note added from the Vice President (or in slang Chair). As you all can see, I am the only one who wrote it, which is 1) time consuming 2) icomplete (just have a look a very small commons section) 3) maybe completely wrong in some cases :) 4) We have 109 projects in Jakarta, I am stupid for even trying to create this report completely by myself. So to correct my misbehaviour : I will setup a template in the wiki for the next board report, so if anything happens that you feel needs sharing and in case of new committers, pmc members, releases and other decisions I kindly request that everyone adds it. I will send a mail to general (and maybe even all the dev lists) when the page is up and running and when I see something happening I will ping the person who made something happening to add it to the report. Hope you people forgive me ;) Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Board Report December
Nah not like that one :) One with all correct projects already present (I'll just change that page!) :) I want to make sure that all reports contain all subprojects and preferrably all sub sub projects (and I really hope we don't have any sub sub sub projects) Thanx for the link :) Knew something was up there, but didn't have a look yet :) Mvgr, Martin Dennis Lundberg wrote: Martin van den Bemt wrote: Replying to myself :) People I am doing something wrong. The board report should be created by the committers, with a personal note added from the Vice President (or in slang Chair). As you all can see, I am the only one who wrote it, which is 1) time consuming 2) icomplete (just have a look a very small commons section) 3) maybe completely wrong in some cases :) 4) We have 109 projects in Jakarta, I am stupid for even trying to create this report completely by myself. So to correct my misbehaviour : I will setup a template in the wiki for the next board report, so if anything happens that you feel needs sharing and in case of new committers, pmc members, releases and other decisions I kindly request that everyone adds it. You mean like this one :) http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/BoardReportTemplate?highlight=%28Template%29 I will send a mail to general (and maybe even all the dev lists) when the page is up and running and when I see something happening I will ping the person who made something happening to add it to the report. Hope you people forgive me ;) Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Remove POI svn restrictions.
made a proposal to promote POI now, I would expect the board to reject it and tell us make POI work in Jakarta before you promote it to TLP. That is was my feeling as well, but I understood from the board that they rather prefer that things are not hidden in subprojects, which is something that can easily happen with big projects like Jakarta (and I can imagine that no one actually had any real idea of the number of projects over here). Based on that I started with this report giving information about all projects, so they still have the opportunity to intervene. This also means that board reports should be more open and preferably identify issues and problems, as well as the positive things happening. We should make the job easier for the board to determine if Jakarta is healthy. Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Board reports.
Hi everyone, The official way board reports should be handled has 2 parts : 1 part that is edited by the the committers (= the people who know best about there projects) and after that the VP can add his personal notes to the report. So starting from now I would like to see that people add the things they want in the report to this page : http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/JakartaBoardReport-March2007 Some things need to be in the board report : - New committers - New PMC Members - Releases (under the release section at the top) and a more detailed explenation of the release under the project section (not too detailed please, a summary will do). Besides that I would also like to see feedback for individual commons components (in proper). Especially interesting is the developer involvement and the user list interaction over the last 3 months. If you want to share anything else that you think is important for the board to know, please do so at above page. Thanx for your help :) Mvgr, Martin PS There are more subprojects with subprojects, besides commons, though eg Taglibs has only 2 or 3 components with activity. I leave that to the respective projects to decide if a distinction in subprojects is needed, although it would be appreciated that you at least identify that there are subprojects in your projects. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Jakarta Wiki] Trivial Update of JakartaBoardReport-March2007 by RolandWeber
Feel free to remove it from commons and add it to HttpComponents. It was just a dumb copy paste from the commons webpage :) While you are at it, you could also add this to the template (+ httpcode and httpasync) Mvgr, Martin Apache Wiki wrote: Dear Wiki user, You have subscribed to a wiki page or wiki category on Jakarta Wiki for change notification. The following page has been changed by RolandWeber: http://wiki.apache.org/jakarta/JakartaBoardReport-March2007 The comment on the change is: HttpComponents project is responsible for maintaining Commons HttpClient -- ''!FileUpload'' - ''!HttpClient'' + ''!HttpClient'' - see !HttpComponents project below ''IO'' - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Board Report December
Just a reminder : the board report was written by me (completely) and the feeling is something I have and doesn't necessarily mean the whole of Jakarta agrees with that. The board is aware that it is my personal report. Don't forget that in the first place this feeling (/ observation of this disconnect) is expressed by POI people themselves (the complete thread) and was offered help by Henri (at that time VP Jakarta) to help fix the situation : http://www.mail-archive.com/poi-dev@jakarta.apache.org/msg11492.html. The vote for Nick to be added to the PMC, didn't give me a good signal either. It showed that Jakarta PMC members representing POI had a hard time to vote, probably causing that (almost) no one at Jakarta felt the need to vote or invest energy to see who Nick is. Since I don't believe people feel that Nick shouldn't be on the PMC shows that there is a disconnect between Jakarta and POI. If you add that with the svn karma exception with the legal NDA stuff (which isn't something that the PMC is officially aware of), the release vote withouth result, not notifying the pmc of the release, not sending mail to eg announcements of release, not adding the releases to the main jakarta page, you can probably see the reason for my feeling that POI is not part of Jakarta or Apache. That being said : I don't have any doubts that the intentions are good and we are happy to help out, but it helps to be proactive. A good start would accepting Marks offer :) Mvgr, Martin Rainer Klute wrote: Avik Sengupta schrieb: It feels like they are acting as a separate entity in Jakarta and even the ASF itself Let me put on record my severe objection to this statement. Yes, the wording is quite harsh. However, following the arguments in the POI thread, we indeed seem not to act as we should - be it deliberately or not. I must admit I didn't follow the Apache politics closely in the past for the lack of time, but it seems we have to invest some time to get back on track. I am sure Apache fellows will help us by pointing us into the right direction. Best regards Rainer Klute Rainer Klute IT-Consulting GmbH Dipl.-Inform. Rainer Klute E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Körner Grund 24 Telefon: +49 172 2324824 D-44143 Dortmund Telefax: +49 231 5349423 OpenPGP fingerprint: E4E4386515EE0BED5C162FBB5343461584B5A42E - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Remove POI svn restrictions.
Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: [+1] Open up POI svn commit access. [-1] Don't open POI svn commit access, because... As long as the ASF (entity)/ Jakarta PMC have an WILL to protect and can protect the developers from the Legal Issues, I am willing to put +1 to this vote. The biggest problem is that if we need protection, there is currently nothing in place (even though you need to swear something). There are no records, no signed documents and such thing needs to be organised at a PMC / Apache level. -- I, personally, hope I can live happily and peacefully in this wonderful jakarta land (and the apache land). +1 to that ;) -- Tetsuya [EMAIL PROTECTED] P.S. Mvgr Don't forget the vote in March where everyone voted +1 Mvgr except the POI committers. Seems that I could not catch up this thread (in [EMAIL PROTECTED] / March) at that time. Sorry. http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-generalm=114344584424864w=2 is the start of the thread / vote. Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Remove POI svn restrictions.
Martin van den Bemt wrote: -1 from me. Harmony doesn't let anyone commit on their project unless they they sign a statement saying they haven't looked at Sun's source code[1]. AFAIK this is a similar issue and the POI policy [2] is designed to protect POI, which as a user of POI is a good thing IMO. Even if this fear is actually unfounded seems like a sensible policy to err on the side of caution. Just FYI, the policy doesn't mean anything legally, so it doesn't help anyone. We have the ICLA that covers that. Keeping POI SVN closed, is as far as I could see, just based on the assumption that it means something. Besides that if this is a policy of some kind, where are the records ? Ouch rereading this I meant : The POI policy of course :) (in case it is misread) Mvgr, Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VOTE] Remove POI svn restrictions.
Avik Sengupta wrote: I dont care about this vote (any more). I do care deeply about POI. I do care about Apache and Jakarta. I resent the opposite presumption on less than rock-hard grounds, because it is a pretty big accusation. As noted in my analyses, I stated that I could be misinterpreting things. The fact that the POI and remaining jakarta communties are separate is a FACT. Most people on this thread seems to have turned it into a JUDGEMENT. If that does not gel well with what the 'oversight' requirements, we need to find a way to work WITH the community, rather than attack it. See my reply to the board report (where you stated the wording was harsh). All open source project projects contributors go thru highs and lows of contribution. Commiters come and go, some permanently, some temporarily. (I recall reading a well written account of this from either Brian or Stefano.. cant remember... anyone have a link). At POI, we're lucky enough to have fresh blood coming in at regular intevals (as with most open source projects, usually from nowhere, surprising you with their commitment and great code..). Once again, we need to work with this phenomenon, rather than condemn the whole project on that basis. Condemning the project isn't what my goal is. And I think I made clear in other mails that POI is pretty healthy with development, user base, etc. (Since I am not a user of POI, I cannot judge it technically, although I assume you wouldn't have any users if it was technically bad). The charge of insularity can go both ways. This thread is only about SNV access. Can I not ask how many of the indignant correspondents on this thread have taken the effort to come and help us get things right on the poi dev lists? However, that's an argument that wont get us anywhere, so lets not go down that path. There were efforts in the past (see my board report reply) and I was thinking of taking a different approach, which I described in the board report too. So in reply to every other offer of help, welcome! But I dont understand, why do people want to be an officially anointed 'mentor' before helping out? I thought the Apache way was about the 'doing' ... he who does ... etc. Please join the POI dev lists, and show us where I joined the dev and user list before I became VP. And I thought hey the vote thread isn't finished yet. Hence my e-mail to poi / private list about the release. After that offer you could have asked for help (which was offered) and state we are on it or something (about the release itself not being checked). we go wrong. We'd even instituted a policy to open the svn access to all jakarta committers for only asking. If you read this thread Andy gave a very different explanation of this policy to me (although I could have misread him). Permit me to get personal to illustrate my point. When Henry noticed a few issues with the release, he wrote back saying what they were. Some we've pushed back, other's we've promised to fix, and in the meanwhile, he's offered to fix some of them himself, an offer that's been very gratefully accepted. I read the thread. This thread, on the other hand, has degenerated into complete POI bashing. Once again, I'd be happy to discuss the merits of this svn proposal... its the subsequent bashing that completely baffles me. Just speaking for myself here : I just wanted to open up svn karma as a first step to improve things. Maybe it should have been the last vote in the process. When there was asked about the reasoning behind the vote, I just added the same thing I already said in the mail about the release (about PMC members giving oversight) and trying to get to bounce the ball back to the project to get some answers on eg the legal issue, which still remains partially unanswered. If POI bashing is what I did, my apologies, although after rereading the thread, the negativity comes from both sides and I also seen a lot of messages with positive attitude, so let's focus on that :) Finally Martin, you say If you have anything positive to contribute...; dont know if you mean me personally or the project as a whole, I find that a wee bit offensive... sorry if I'm misunderstanding. POI is in active development, used by thousands , Never disputed that, I even said that in the message you are replying to. I wanted to make clear with that statement (the positive part) that in that respect the project is doing more than well (which I stated in other parts of the thread as well). I was kind of missing that in the responses from, in this case, you. it doesn't need a mandate from the PMC to be successful project, does it? It does need a mandate to be a successful project, which is the thing I am trying to solve here, that most requests/vote announcements don't get a response is because the vote and release is because we have lazy consensus. Some do get a response (eg not the needed 3 +1
