Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-25 Thread A. Khattri
On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Uwe Thiem wrote:

 Folks, we have got computing power on our desks that equals that of a medium
 sized data centre 10 years ago. Of course, I want the bloody computer and its
 tools to do all the sidetracking little tasks and concentrate myself on
 algorithms and data structures and user interfaces.

Sure but this is not always a good path to take.

There will always be people wanting to drive a 300hp SUV (I prefer the
term FUV - Im sure people can figure out what FU means ;-) to pick up
groceries at the corner store when really they could walk or ride a
bicycle and help save the environment and get some exercise at the same
time!


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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-24 Thread Frank Schafer
Hallo, wie Du vielleicht an meiner e-mail erkennst (am Namen) ... meine
Muttersprache ist Deutsch. ;-)))

Hi, as you possibly recognize by my e-mail (the name) ... my native
language is German ;-)))

I got a PB installation and there is some doc about the (programming)
language in the tar ball.

In fact, the syntax:

something(x) /anything

means an array of structs something where anything is a member of the
struct something.

THAT was my question.

Not at all, thanks.
Frank


On Tue, 2005-08-23 at 16:47 +0200, Holly Bostick wrote:
 Frank Schafer schreef:
 
  The only thing I don't understand after 5 minutes looking at the code;
  
  what means:
  
  spieler(i) \Status = 1
  
 
 I don't know anything about code, but I looked at this and immediately saw
 
 spieler = Player
 
 in German.
 
 Maybe that helps you understand what it's doing.
 
 Holly
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-24 Thread Frank Schafer
Hmmm, a game IS an application (for gaming purposes) ;-))

Fast scrolling and all of this stuff isn't made by PB but by library
routines (SDL on Linux). So every (I mean EVERY) language should handle
this if the system does it handle.

By the way, we definitely can change the programming language by simple
syntax conversion if the original code is proper organized (I did this
more than once). A complete rewrite isn't such a big task too.
Programming means to describe the whole logic of an application (games
too ;). Use structograms, flow charts, petri nets ... as you like.
Translating this into a programming Language (C, C++, Pascal, BASIC,
Forth, Prolog ...) is pure coding.

I remember the time we touched the hardware itself if we did need speed
(DOS, was it GEM on the Amiga?, the legendary Spectrum, C64 ...) but I'm
skeptic if modern OS will still allow this.

0.02$
Frank


On Tue, 2005-08-23 at 21:31 +0200, Markus Döbele wrote:
 But this is a game and not an aplication.
 I need fast scrolling and all this stuff. I don't think this languages can 
 handle that.
 
 
 Am Dienstag, 23. August 2005 09:57 schrieb Heinz Sporn:
  Am Dienstag, den 23.08.2005, 09:06 +0200 schrieb Markus Döbele:
   Purebasic is very fast. The generated assembler code kicks ass.
   And I can compile it for Linux, Mac OS and Windows.
  
   If I find a Open Source Basic Compiler that can do the task. I consider
   rewriting it again.
 
  Did you ever look at Gambas? http://gambas.sourceforge.net/ At the
  moment it's dedicated to X environments with both QT and GTK support but
  I wouldn't be suprised if they will support Windoze in the future. The
  IDE itself is very nice and the compiler generates smooth code. It's in
  Portage BTW. And last but not least they have a very nice community.
 
  Another option might be RealBasic http://www.realbasic.com/ . The
  Current RealBasic version 2005 is commercial, but the older standard
  version 5.5 for Windows is free. It's a little strange but with that you
  are able to produce native Linux binaries for a QT environment.
 
   We are programming this game since 12 years :-)
   The first Version we programmed on the Atari ST!  :-))
   There the language was calles STOS.
  
   Am Dienstag, 23. August 2005 08:33 schrieb Frank Schafer:
Hi Markus,
   
have you ever wondered about the possibility to rewrite your game to
another programming language. There's a lot of possibilities (even for
FSF game engines).
   
Just a thought
Frank
   
On Mon, 2005-08-22 at 23:42 +0200, Markus Döbele wrote:
 So we have to treat Lost Labyrinth as closed source.
 Because the source code of this game is only useful to other
 purebasic programmers. And people that got the compiler. I
 understand. Can't change that.

 Am Montag, 22. August 2005 22:52 schrieb Matan Peled:
  Markus Döbele wrote:
   I created a tar.gz Version of this game too.
   I'm sorry that its not possible to compile it with the demo
   version of the compiler.
  
   What are gentoo users doing with other binary packages?
   Like Acrobat Reader?
  
   Is this a big problem for this system?
 
  No, Portage can handle binary apps just fine. We have Java, Unreal
  Tournament 2k3/2k4, Doom 3, Neverwinter Nights... All kinds of
  binary-only apps.
 
  But all of them are closed-source (Except for the -bin version of
  some rather big packages, manly to save people the compile
  time...).
 
  It feels kinda wrong to install a binary package of a (small)
  open-source app on a source-based system...
 
  Its also weird having an opensource app that you can only compile
  using a non-free (as in beer) compiler...
 
  --
  [Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
  [Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
  [Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
  [Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
  encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred
 
  --
  Mit freundlichen Grüßen
 
  Heinz Sporn
 
  SPORN it-freelancing
 
  Mobile:  ++43 (0)699 / 127 827 07
  Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Website: http://www.sporn-it.com
  Snail:   Steyrer Str. 20
   A-4540 Bad Hall
   Austria / Europe
 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-24 Thread Matan Peled
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Hash: SHA1

Frank Schafer wrote:
 Hmmm, a game IS an application (for gaming purposes) ;-))
 
 Fast scrolling and all of this stuff isn't made by PB but by library
 routines (SDL on Linux). So every (I mean EVERY) language should handle
 this if the system does it handle.
 
 By the way, we definitely can change the programming language by simple
 syntax conversion if the original code is proper organized (I did this
 more than once). A complete rewrite isn't such a big task too.
 Programming means to describe the whole logic of an application (games
 too ;). Use structograms, flow charts, petri nets ... as you like.
 Translating this into a programming Language (C, C++, Pascal, BASIC,
 Forth, Prolog ...) is pure coding.
 
 I remember the time we touched the hardware itself if we did need speed
 (DOS, was it GEM on the Amiga?, the legendary Spectrum, C64 ...) but I'm
 skeptic if modern OS will still allow this.
 
 0.02$
 Frank

And C is EXTREMELY fast. I mean, I'm having real trouble believing that BASIC
can be faster than C...

Anyway, simple syntax change is not all that needed. You also need to talk to
SDL - something I think PureBasic handled previously.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-24 Thread Frank Schafer
On Wed, 2005-08-24 at 10:13 +0300, Matan Peled wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 Frank Schafer wrote:
  Hmmm, a game IS an application (for gaming purposes) ;-))
  
  Fast scrolling and all of this stuff isn't made by PB but by library
  routines (SDL on Linux). So every (I mean EVERY) language should handle
  this if the system does it handle.
  
  By the way, we definitely can change the programming language by simple
  syntax conversion if the original code is proper organized (I did this
  more than once). A complete rewrite isn't such a big task too.
  Programming means to describe the whole logic of an application (games
  too ;). Use structograms, flow charts, petri nets ... as you like.
  Translating this into a programming Language (C, C++, Pascal, BASIC,
  Forth, Prolog ...) is pure coding.
  
  I remember the time we touched the hardware itself if we did need speed
  (DOS, was it GEM on the Amiga?, the legendary Spectrum, C64 ...) but I'm
  skeptic if modern OS will still allow this.
  
  0.02$
  Frank
 
 And C is EXTREMELY fast. I mean, I'm having real trouble believing that BASIC
 can be faster than C...
 
 Anyway, simple syntax change is not all that needed. You also need to talk to
 SDL - something I think PureBasic handled previously.

I think SDL has an API, don't you think too?

;)


 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-24 Thread Matan Peled
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Frank Schafer wrote:
 I think SDL has an API, don't you think too?
 ;)

Well, of course. But it wasn't used before, rather PureBasic's one was used.

Now we need to use that API (Thats what I meant by Talking to SDL...)

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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-24 Thread Markus Döbele
The code I think is not the problem. But I think it is still a lot of work.
By the way I don't like C too much (we had a C Version once and only 
encountered problems all the time :-( Buffer overflows and all this nice 
stuff is a big problem of this language!)

Maybe a C Fan is reading this and likes to do it. 

I started as a Assembler Programmer on the Atari ST (68000 Rulez!!!)
But all this is too much effort. Purebasic has a very syntax and for a basic 
dialect a very good performance.


Am Mittwoch, 24. August 2005 08:39 schrieb Frank Schafer:
 Hmmm, a game IS an application (for gaming purposes) ;-))

 Fast scrolling and all of this stuff isn't made by PB but by library
 routines (SDL on Linux). So every (I mean EVERY) language should handle
 this if the system does it handle.

 By the way, we definitely can change the programming language by simple
 syntax conversion if the original code is proper organized (I did this
 more than once). A complete rewrite isn't such a big task too.
 Programming means to describe the whole logic of an application (games
 too ;). Use structograms, flow charts, petri nets ... as you like.
 Translating this into a programming Language (C, C++, Pascal, BASIC,
 Forth, Prolog ...) is pure coding.

 I remember the time we touched the hardware itself if we did need speed
 (DOS, was it GEM on the Amiga?, the legendary Spectrum, C64 ...) but I'm
 skeptic if modern OS will still allow this.

 0.02$
 Frank

 On Tue, 2005-08-23 at 21:31 +0200, Markus Döbele wrote:
  But this is a game and not an aplication.
  I need fast scrolling and all this stuff. I don't think this languages
  can handle that.
 
  Am Dienstag, 23. August 2005 09:57 schrieb Heinz Sporn:
   Am Dienstag, den 23.08.2005, 09:06 +0200 schrieb Markus Döbele:
Purebasic is very fast. The generated assembler code kicks ass.
And I can compile it for Linux, Mac OS and Windows.
   
If I find a Open Source Basic Compiler that can do the task. I
consider rewriting it again.
  
   Did you ever look at Gambas? http://gambas.sourceforge.net/ At the
   moment it's dedicated to X environments with both QT and GTK support
   but I wouldn't be suprised if they will support Windoze in the future.
   The IDE itself is very nice and the compiler generates smooth code.
   It's in Portage BTW. And last but not least they have a very nice
   community.
  
   Another option might be RealBasic http://www.realbasic.com/ . The
   Current RealBasic version 2005 is commercial, but the older standard
   version 5.5 for Windows is free. It's a little strange but with that
   you are able to produce native Linux binaries for a QT environment.
  
We are programming this game since 12 years :-)
The first Version we programmed on the Atari ST!  :-))
There the language was calles STOS.
   
Am Dienstag, 23. August 2005 08:33 schrieb Frank Schafer:
 Hi Markus,

 have you ever wondered about the possibility to rewrite your game
 to another programming language. There's a lot of possibilities
 (even for FSF game engines).

 Just a thought
 Frank

 On Mon, 2005-08-22 at 23:42 +0200, Markus Döbele wrote:
  So we have to treat Lost Labyrinth as closed source.
  Because the source code of this game is only useful to other
  purebasic programmers. And people that got the compiler. I
  understand. Can't change that.
 
  Am Montag, 22. August 2005 22:52 schrieb Matan Peled:
   Markus Döbele wrote:
I created a tar.gz Version of this game too.
I'm sorry that its not possible to compile it with the demo
version of the compiler.
   
What are gentoo users doing with other binary packages?
Like Acrobat Reader?
   
Is this a big problem for this system?
  
   No, Portage can handle binary apps just fine. We have Java,
   Unreal Tournament 2k3/2k4, Doom 3, Neverwinter Nights... All
   kinds of binary-only apps.
  
   But all of them are closed-source (Except for the -bin version
   of some rather big packages, manly to save people the compile
   time...).
  
   It feels kinda wrong to install a binary package of a (small)
   open-source app on a source-based system...
  
   Its also weird having an opensource app that you can only
   compile using a non-free (as in beer) compiler...
  
   --
   [Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
   [Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
   [Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
   [Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
   encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred
  
   --
   Mit freundlichen Grüßen
  
   Heinz Sporn
  
   SPORN it-freelancing
  
   Mobile:  ++43 (0)699 / 127 827 07
   Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Website: http://www.sporn-it.com
   Snail:   Steyrer Str. 20
A-4540 Bad Hall
Austria / Europe

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-24 Thread Markus Döbele
Agreed C IS faster.
But no fun at all. 

Am Mittwoch, 24. August 2005 09:13 schrieb Matan Peled:
 Frank Schafer wrote:
  Hmmm, a game IS an application (for gaming purposes) ;-))
 
  Fast scrolling and all of this stuff isn't made by PB but by library
  routines (SDL on Linux). So every (I mean EVERY) language should handle
  this if the system does it handle.
 
  By the way, we definitely can change the programming language by simple
  syntax conversion if the original code is proper organized (I did this
  more than once). A complete rewrite isn't such a big task too.
  Programming means to describe the whole logic of an application (games
  too ;). Use structograms, flow charts, petri nets ... as you like.
  Translating this into a programming Language (C, C++, Pascal, BASIC,
  Forth, Prolog ...) is pure coding.
 
  I remember the time we touched the hardware itself if we did need speed
  (DOS, was it GEM on the Amiga?, the legendary Spectrum, C64 ...) but I'm
  skeptic if modern OS will still allow this.
 
  0.02$
  Frank

 And C is EXTREMELY fast. I mean, I'm having real trouble believing that
 BASIC can be faster than C...

 Anyway, simple syntax change is not all that needed. You also need to talk
 to SDL - something I think PureBasic handled previously.

 --
 [Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
 [Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
 [Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
 [Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
 encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-24 Thread Frank Schafer
right, and that means we have to study PB's syntax ... what I'm doing
just now if I have some time.

PB itself is probably written in C. A compiler with less than 140kB IMHO
isn't written in C++.

BTW: Have a look at ``strings pbcompiler | more''!
It's VEERY interesting. Seems pbcompiler simply maps BASIC
instructions to assembler mnemonics.

:-)))

On Wed, 2005-08-24 at 11:09 +0300, Matan Peled wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 Frank Schafer wrote:
  I think SDL has an API, don't you think too?
  ;)
 
 Well, of course. But it wasn't used before, rather PureBasic's one was used.
 
 Now we need to use that API (Thats what I meant by Talking to SDL...)
 
 - --
 [Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
 [Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
 [Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
 [Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
 encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred
 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-24 Thread Nick Rout
Markus, you just keep working on the program and make sure you upload it
to sourceforge, I'll do the ebuilds :-)

On Wed, 2005-08-24 at 10:06 +0200, Markus Döbele wrote:
 Okay, but this means to me that it makes no real difference if I upload it to 
 2 destinations all the time.
 I am living in Argentina and my internet connection here is very slow :-(
 
 When we have to write a special file (ebuild) anyway so I would suggest to 
 rename the funny name the server is giving us.
 We just have to insert a variable which contains the actual version.
 
 Saves me a lot of time.
 And I want to concentrate my efforts on making laby better and not other 
 stuff.
 
 There is still a lot to to. And I want to beat the Windows version as soon as 
 possible!

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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-24 Thread Frank Schafer
further questions / info.

Seems PureBasic is a direct dependency for all programs compiled with
it. They will probably use the shared library which comes with
PureBasic.

I wonder ...
There is a static library amongst the PureBasic binary too. Maybe
PureBasic compiles the way VisualBasic up to version 5 did. Making a
data block from the source leaving the source itself intact, linking a
library with a small starting code (the interpreter) letting the
executable interpreting the data block inside itself.

... that would stand for real speed ... interpreting ...


Further 0,02$
Frank


On Wed, 2005-08-24 at 10:25 +0200, Frank Schafer wrote:
 right, and that means we have to study PB's syntax ... what I'm doing
 just now if I have some time.
 
 PB itself is probably written in C. A compiler with less than 140kB IMHO
 isn't written in C++.
 
 BTW: Have a look at ``strings pbcompiler | more''!
 It's VEERY interesting. Seems pbcompiler simply maps BASIC
 instructions to assembler mnemonics.
 
 :-)))
 
 On Wed, 2005-08-24 at 11:09 +0300, Matan Peled wrote:
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
  Hash: SHA1
  
  Frank Schafer wrote:
   I think SDL has an API, don't you think too?
   ;)
  
  Well, of course. But it wasn't used before, rather PureBasic's one was used.
  
  Now we need to use that API (Thats what I meant by Talking to SDL...)
  
  - --
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-24 Thread Nick Rout
Right Markus I have written an ebuild that installs the package and it
works, although I am not sure if its how a pro would have done it.

It downloads the compiled version 1.0.0 from sourceforge (can't test it
on 1.0.1 or 1.0.2 until you put them on sourceforge.) Once you have done
that, and I have tested it, I'll make it available for others to test.

Basically it downloads the compiled tarball and installs the executable
(laby) and the support files (sounds.pak, highscores.dat, graphics.pak)
to /usr/lib/laby/ It puts a script into /usr/games/bin. The script
simple cd's to /usr/lib/laby and them executes laby. (It seems to need
to be executed from the same directory the support files are in, makes
sense really)

Comments on my chosen file locations would be appreciated. They are easy
enough to change.

It also installs the readme.txt to /usr/share/doc/laby-1.0.0 (this is a
gentoo standard location for documentation). If people think I should it
can also put readme_waffen.txt and readme_zauber.txt into the same
place, but as I don't know german i am unsure if they are really
helpful, or just take up space :-)


On Wed, 2005-08-24 at 20:49 +1200, Nick Rout wrote:
 Markus, you just keep working on the program and make sure you upload it
 to sourceforge, I'll do the ebuilds :-)
 
 On Wed, 2005-08-24 at 10:06 +0200, Markus Döbele wrote:
  Okay, but this means to me that it makes no real difference if I upload it 
  to 
  2 destinations all the time.
  I am living in Argentina and my internet connection here is very slow :-(
  
  When we have to write a special file (ebuild) anyway so I would suggest to 
  rename the funny name the server is giving us.
  We just have to insert a variable which contains the actual version.
  
  Saves me a lot of time.
  And I want to concentrate my efforts on making laby better and not other 
  stuff.
  
  There is still a lot to to. And I want to beat the Windows version as soon 
  as 
  possible!
 
 -- 
 Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
-- 
Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-24 Thread Matan Peled
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Markus Döbele wrote:
 The code I think is not the problem. But I think it is still a lot of work.
 By the way I don't like C too much (we had a C Version once and only 
 encountered problems all the time :-( Buffer overflows and all this nice 
 stuff is a big problem of this language!)
 
 Maybe a C Fan is reading this and likes to do it. 
 
 I started as a Assembler Programmer on the Atari ST (68000 Rulez!!!)
 But all this is too much effort. Purebasic has a very syntax and for a basic 
 dialect a very good performance.

Well, the code IS the problem. As you see, Nick Rout has already made an ebuild,
but the code is a real problem.

Lets deal with the most obvious problem with not being able to compile your
sourcecode - Archs different than x86. PureBasic seems to be able to compile for
Windows, AmigaOS, and Linux/x86. What about Linux/PPC (Linux on Apple) users?
Theres quite a few of them. They can't run your game without an emulator...

Yes, is pretty low-level, and you have to take care of your own memory... But
coming from an assembler you should be used to this, right?

Anyway, I can perfectly understand your aversion from C...

The best languages to write a cross-platform application with are (I'm
probably going to get flamed missing some, but anyway) C, C++, Java, Python, and
Perl.

Ruling out C (you don't like it), C++ (Too much like C, and we don't need OO
anyway), Java (Too bloody slow), we are left with the interpreted languages,
Python and Perl.

I would suggest Python, as it has a very nice syntax and is quite easy to pick
up. Its slower than asm/c, but it may be faster than you expect.

Overall, I suggest using C and SDL, coupled with a good debugger (gdb is good,
and I hear valgrind is bloody awesome for memory related issues), but if you
decide you don't want it, Python is good too.

Binary packages are fine, but generally considered to be evil.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-24 Thread A. Khattri
On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Markus [utf-8] Döbele wrote:

 The code I think is not the problem. But I think it is still a lot of work.
 By the way I don't like C too much (we had a C Version once and only
 encountered problems all the time :-( Buffer overflows and all this nice
 stuff is a big problem of this language!)

You mean it requires understanding pointers and attention to detail?

Yes it does.

An assembly programmer should find C easy (well I did anyway).

 I started as a Assembler Programmer on the Atari ST (68000 Rulez!!!)

I started on the 6502, then 68000 then 8086...

 But all this is too much effort. Purebasic has a very syntax and for a basic
 dialect a very good performance.

Shame BBC Basic isn't around anymore - it allowed you to mix assembler and
BASIC (and that basic at the time was one of the few that allowed
recursion ;-)


-- 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-24 Thread Uwe Thiem
On 24 August 2005 18:34, A. Khattri wrote:
 On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Markus [utf-8] Döbele wrote:
  The code I think is not the problem. But I think it is still a lot of
  work. By the way I don't like C too much (we had a C Version once and
  only encountered problems all the time :-( Buffer overflows and all this
  nice stuff is a big problem of this language!)

 You mean it requires understanding pointers and attention to detail?

 Yes it does.

 An assembly programmer should find C easy (well I did anyway).

  I started as a Assembler Programmer on the Atari ST (68000 Rulez!!!)

 I started on the 6502, then 68000 then 8086...

Donning my asbestos suit. Cannot resist the flamebait any more. I did 
assembler for 6502, Z80, 8085,... I am talking about real-world, commercial 
software with several MB of assembler source. Like software for driverless 
vehicles buzzing around in real plants among real workers.

That said, once man made fire by twisting a little twig between hands while 
pressing it to some other wood. I prefer matches or a lighter. Even when in 
the bush, I prefer some fire starters I can buy. Man (actually Woman in most 
cases) once carried water in calabashes on their heads for miles on end. I 
prefer pumps and pipes and taps. Programmers once punched their code and 
their data into punchcards, handed them in to the data centre and hoped all 
would go well. I prefer editors, IDEs, compilers and linkers. ;-)

Folks, we have got computing power on our desks that equals that of a medium 
sized data centre 10 years ago. Of course, I want the bloody computer and its 
tools to do all the sidetracking little tasks and concentrate myself on 
algorithms and data structures and user interfaces.

If I could find enough buddies and peers I would do most of my stuff in 
languages like smalltalk that take care of freeing memory, collecting garbage 
and such. Again: That said, I still use C/C++ for most of my stuff.

In short: Don't scuff someone who tries to avoid the pitfalls of C/C++ by 
using a language that does all those little things for them. Sure, I wouldn't 
use any dialect of basic but that is another issue.

Uwe
(hiding behind his desk)

-- 
95% of all programmers rate themselves among the top 5% of all software 
developers. - Linus Torvalds

http://www.uwix.iway.na (last updated: 20.06.2004)
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-24 Thread Markus Döbele
Yes purebasic is generating assembler code out of its commands.
Anders Anderson did the assembler stuff.

And he did a quite good job I think :-)


Am Mittwoch, 24. August 2005 10:25 schrieb Frank Schafer:
 right, and that means we have to study PB's syntax ... what I'm doing
 just now if I have some time.

 PB itself is probably written in C. A compiler with less than 140kB IMHO
 isn't written in C++.

 BTW: Have a look at ``strings pbcompiler | more''!
 It's VEERY interesting. Seems pbcompiler simply maps BASIC
 instructions to assembler mnemonics.

 :-)))

 On Wed, 2005-08-24 at 11:09 +0300, Matan Peled wrote:
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
  Hash: SHA1
 
  Frank Schafer wrote:
   I think SDL has an API, don't you think too?
   ;)
 
  Well, of course. But it wasn't used before, rather PureBasic's one was
  used.
 
  Now we need to use that API (Thats what I meant by Talking to SDL...)
 
  - --
  [Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
  [Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
  [Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
  [Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
  encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred
 
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
  Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
 
  iD8DBQFDDCsnA7Qvptb0LKURAkzEAJ9DFzs6ooCwL9XcC7pUWS9BIDOEpgCdGtVN
  RWUAxhkhZxxjm4/clhz0eM4=
  =hpyQ
  -END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-24 Thread Markus Döbele
It generates Assembler code.
When you use the -c parameter you can have a look at the generated code.
You always need fasm to compile your program.


Am Mittwoch, 24. August 2005 11:30 schrieb Frank Schafer:
 further questions / info.

 Seems PureBasic is a direct dependency for all programs compiled with
 it. They will probably use the shared library which comes with
 PureBasic.

 I wonder ...
 There is a static library amongst the PureBasic binary too. Maybe
 PureBasic compiles the way VisualBasic up to version 5 did. Making a
 data block from the source leaving the source itself intact, linking a
 library with a small starting code (the interpreter) letting the
 executable interpreting the data block inside itself.

 ... that would stand for real speed ... interpreting ...


 Further 0,02$
 Frank

 On Wed, 2005-08-24 at 10:25 +0200, Frank Schafer wrote:
  right, and that means we have to study PB's syntax ... what I'm doing
  just now if I have some time.
 
  PB itself is probably written in C. A compiler with less than 140kB IMHO
  isn't written in C++.
 
  BTW: Have a look at ``strings pbcompiler | more''!
  It's VEERY interesting. Seems pbcompiler simply maps BASIC
  instructions to assembler mnemonics.
 
  :-)))
 
  On Wed, 2005-08-24 at 11:09 +0300, Matan Peled wrote:
   -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
   Hash: SHA1
  
   Frank Schafer wrote:
I think SDL has an API, don't you think too?
;)
  
   Well, of course. But it wasn't used before, rather PureBasic's one was
   used.
  
   Now we need to use that API (Thats what I meant by Talking to SDL...)
  
   - --
   [Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
   [Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
   [Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
   [Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
   encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred
  
   -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
   Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
  
   iD8DBQFDDCsnA7Qvptb0LKURAkzEAJ9DFzs6ooCwL9XcC7pUWS9BIDOEpgCdGtVN
   RWUAxhkhZxxjm4/clhz0eM4=
   =hpyQ
   -END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-24 Thread Markus Döbele
I would say writing a game with a scripting language is not possible.
Or is there any?  Are our machines today powerful enough for that? 

Java totally sucks! The licence of sun is horrible! And its awfully slow.

So I am running short in options...


Am Mittwoch, 24. August 2005 14:22 schrieb Matan Peled:
 Markus Döbele wrote:
  The code I think is not the problem. But I think it is still a lot of
  work. By the way I don't like C too much (we had a C Version once and
  only encountered problems all the time :-( Buffer overflows and all this
  nice stuff is a big problem of this language!)
 
  Maybe a C Fan is reading this and likes to do it.
 
  I started as a Assembler Programmer on the Atari ST (68000 Rulez!!!)
  But all this is too much effort. Purebasic has a very syntax and for a
  basic dialect a very good performance.

 Well, the code IS the problem. As you see, Nick Rout has already made an
 ebuild, but the code is a real problem.

 Lets deal with the most obvious problem with not being able to compile your
 sourcecode - Archs different than x86. PureBasic seems to be able to
 compile for Windows, AmigaOS, and Linux/x86. What about Linux/PPC (Linux on
 Apple) users? Theres quite a few of them. They can't run your game without
 an emulator...

 Yes, is pretty low-level, and you have to take care of your own memory...
 But coming from an assembler you should be used to this, right?

 Anyway, I can perfectly understand your aversion from C...

 The best languages to write a cross-platform application with are (I'm
 probably going to get flamed missing some, but anyway) C, C++, Java,
 Python, and Perl.

 Ruling out C (you don't like it), C++ (Too much like C, and we don't need
 OO anyway), Java (Too bloody slow), we are left with the interpreted
 languages, Python and Perl.

 I would suggest Python, as it has a very nice syntax and is quite easy to
 pick up. Its slower than asm/c, but it may be faster than you expect.

 Overall, I suggest using C and SDL, coupled with a good debugger (gdb is
 good, and I hear valgrind is bloody awesome for memory related issues), but
 if you decide you don't want it, Python is good too.

 Binary packages are fine, but generally considered to be evil.

 --
 [Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
 [Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
 [Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
 [Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
 encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred

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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-24 Thread Markus Döbele
You should have a look at purebasic. Inline Assembler is possible here 
too! :-)

You are right C is a lot easier than Assembler.
But Purebasic is a lot easier that C too :-)


Am Mittwoch, 24. August 2005 19:34 schrieb A. Khattri:
 On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Markus [utf-8] Döbele wrote:
  The code I think is not the problem. But I think it is still a lot of
  work. By the way I don't like C too much (we had a C Version once and
  only encountered problems all the time :-( Buffer overflows and all this
  nice stuff is a big problem of this language!)

 You mean it requires understanding pointers and attention to detail?

 Yes it does.

 An assembly programmer should find C easy (well I did anyway).

  I started as a Assembler Programmer on the Atari ST (68000 Rulez!!!)

 I started on the 6502, then 68000 then 8086...

  But all this is too much effort. Purebasic has a very syntax and for a
  basic dialect a very good performance.

 Shame BBC Basic isn't around anymore - it allowed you to mix assembler and
 BASIC (and that basic at the time was one of the few that allowed
 recursion ;-)


 --

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list



Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-24 Thread Markus Döbele
Sometimes even programming should be allowed to be a bit of fun :-)
And the users profit of it too, because my programs there never hangs 
themselves up!

In the C Version we could always game as far as somebody found the bug. The 
mightiest monster in the Labyrinth :-))


Am Mittwoch, 24. August 2005 21:11 schrieb Uwe Thiem:
 On 24 August 2005 18:34, A. Khattri wrote:
  On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Markus [utf-8] Döbele wrote:
   The code I think is not the problem. But I think it is still a lot of
   work. By the way I don't like C too much (we had a C Version once and
   only encountered problems all the time :-( Buffer overflows and all
   this nice stuff is a big problem of this language!)
 
  You mean it requires understanding pointers and attention to detail?
 
  Yes it does.
 
  An assembly programmer should find C easy (well I did anyway).
 
   I started as a Assembler Programmer on the Atari ST (68000 Rulez!!!)
 
  I started on the 6502, then 68000 then 8086...

 Donning my asbestos suit. Cannot resist the flamebait any more. I did
 assembler for 6502, Z80, 8085,... I am talking about real-world, commercial
 software with several MB of assembler source. Like software for driverless
 vehicles buzzing around in real plants among real workers.

 That said, once man made fire by twisting a little twig between hands while
 pressing it to some other wood. I prefer matches or a lighter. Even when in
 the bush, I prefer some fire starters I can buy. Man (actually Woman in
 most cases) once carried water in calabashes on their heads for miles on
 end. I prefer pumps and pipes and taps. Programmers once punched their code
 and their data into punchcards, handed them in to the data centre and hoped
 all would go well. I prefer editors, IDEs, compilers and linkers. ;-)

 Folks, we have got computing power on our desks that equals that of a
 medium sized data centre 10 years ago. Of course, I want the bloody
 computer and its tools to do all the sidetracking little tasks and
 concentrate myself on algorithms and data structures and user interfaces.

 If I could find enough buddies and peers I would do most of my stuff in
 languages like smalltalk that take care of freeing memory, collecting
 garbage and such. Again: That said, I still use C/C++ for most of my stuff.

 In short: Don't scuff someone who tries to avoid the pitfalls of C/C++ by
 using a language that does all those little things for them. Sure, I
 wouldn't use any dialect of basic but that is another issue.

 Uwe
 (hiding behind his desk)

 --
 95% of all programmers rate themselves among the top 5% of all software
 developers. - Linus Torvalds

 http://www.uwix.iway.na (last updated: 20.06.2004)

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-24 Thread Markus Döbele
Okay, I just uploaded the new release to sourceforge.
Its version 1.0.2

As always 3 files: binaries as tar.gz, rpm and source as tar.gz.

Don't forget to make the highscores.dat writable for the user.

And yes, I have to rewrite the waffen (weapons) and zauber (spells) readme's 
to english.
Will do this soon!


Am Mittwoch, 24. August 2005 13:41 schrieb Nick Rout:
 Right Markus I have written an ebuild that installs the package and it
 works, although I am not sure if its how a pro would have done it.

 It downloads the compiled version 1.0.0 from sourceforge (can't test it
 on 1.0.1 or 1.0.2 until you put them on sourceforge.) Once you have done
 that, and I have tested it, I'll make it available for others to test.

 Basically it downloads the compiled tarball and installs the executable
 (laby) and the support files (sounds.pak, highscores.dat, graphics.pak)
 to /usr/lib/laby/ It puts a script into /usr/games/bin. The script
 simple cd's to /usr/lib/laby and them executes laby. (It seems to need
 to be executed from the same directory the support files are in, makes
 sense really)

 Comments on my chosen file locations would be appreciated. They are easy
 enough to change.

 It also installs the readme.txt to /usr/share/doc/laby-1.0.0 (this is a
 gentoo standard location for documentation). If people think I should it
 can also put readme_waffen.txt and readme_zauber.txt into the same
 place, but as I don't know german i am unsure if they are really
 helpful, or just take up space :-)

 On Wed, 2005-08-24 at 20:49 +1200, Nick Rout wrote:
  Markus, you just keep working on the program and make sure you upload it
  to sourceforge, I'll do the ebuilds :-)
 
  On Wed, 2005-08-24 at 10:06 +0200, Markus Döbele wrote:
   Okay, but this means to me that it makes no real difference if I upload
   it to 2 destinations all the time.
   I am living in Argentina and my internet connection here is very slow
   :-(
  
   When we have to write a special file (ebuild) anyway so I would suggest
   to rename the funny name the server is giving us.
   We just have to insert a variable which contains the actual version.
  
   Saves me a lot of time.
   And I want to concentrate my efforts on making laby better and not
   other stuff.
  
   There is still a lot to to. And I want to beat the Windows version as
   soon as possible!
 
  --
  Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 --
 Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-23 Thread Frank Schafer
On Tue, 2005-08-23 at 17:36 +1200, Nick Rout wrote:
 On Tue, 2005-08-23 at 17:13 +1200, Nick Rout wrote:
  Anyway, if you fix the downloading, I will do my best to write you an
  ebuild. I am half way through it. 
 
 Oh and perhaps you could explain the rather weird permissions on the
 files in the tarball, viz:
 
 -rw-r--r--  1 nick users 3809210 Aug 22 14:16 graphics.pak
 -rwxr-xr-x  1 nick users 446 Aug 22 14:53 highscores.dat
 -rwxr-xr-x  1 nick users  515804 Aug 22 15:55 laby
 -rwxr-xr-x  1 nick users1610 Mar 10  2004 laby.xpm
 -rw-r--r--  1 nick users4104 Aug 22 15:48 liesmich.txt
 -rwxr-xr-x  1 nick users3890 Aug 22 15:28 readme.txt
 -rwxr-xr-x  1 nick users2023 Mar 10  2004 readme_waffen.txt
 -rwxr-xr-x  1 nick users3197 Aug 18 10:21 readme_zauber.txt
 -rw-r--r--  1 nick users  973752 Aug 15 10:29 sounds.pak
 
 there is no need for the .txt files to be executable, nor the icon
 (laby.xpm), nor the highscores (I hope). 

Every file which comes from Sicromoft (R) Wondies (TM) has execute
permission set.

That's not an error. Due to Sicromoft this is a FEATURE ;-)))

 
 Please advise why these come with the executable permission set, or
 whether this is just an error?
 
 -- 
 Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-23 Thread Frank Schafer
Hi Markus,

have you ever wondered about the possibility to rewrite your game to
another programming language. There's a lot of possibilities (even for
FSF game engines).

Just a thought
Frank

On Mon, 2005-08-22 at 23:42 +0200, Markus Döbele wrote:
 So we have to treat Lost Labyrinth as closed source.
 Because the source code of this game is only useful to other purebasic 
 programmers. And people that got the compiler. I understand.
 Can't change that.
 
 
 Am Montag, 22. August 2005 22:52 schrieb Matan Peled:
  Markus Döbele wrote:
   I created a tar.gz Version of this game too.
   I'm sorry that its not possible to compile it with the demo version of
   the compiler.
  
   What are gentoo users doing with other binary packages?
   Like Acrobat Reader?
  
   Is this a big problem for this system?
 
  No, Portage can handle binary apps just fine. We have Java, Unreal
  Tournament 2k3/2k4, Doom 3, Neverwinter Nights... All kinds of binary-only
  apps.
 
  But all of them are closed-source (Except for the -bin version of some
  rather big packages, manly to save people the compile time...).
 
  It feels kinda wrong to install a binary package of a (small) open-source
  app on a source-based system...
 
  Its also weird having an opensource app that you can only compile using a
  non-free (as in beer) compiler...
 
  --
  [Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
  [Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
  [Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
  [Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
  encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred
 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-23 Thread Markus Döbele
You are right. Thats a feature!
I will get gid of it!  
:-)

Am Dienstag, 23. August 2005 08:31 schrieb Frank Schafer:
 On Tue, 2005-08-23 at 17:36 +1200, Nick Rout wrote:
  On Tue, 2005-08-23 at 17:13 +1200, Nick Rout wrote:
   Anyway, if you fix the downloading, I will do my best to write you an
   ebuild. I am half way through it.
 
  Oh and perhaps you could explain the rather weird permissions on the
  files in the tarball, viz:
 
  -rw-r--r--  1 nick users 3809210 Aug 22 14:16 graphics.pak
  -rwxr-xr-x  1 nick users 446 Aug 22 14:53 highscores.dat
  -rwxr-xr-x  1 nick users  515804 Aug 22 15:55 laby
  -rwxr-xr-x  1 nick users1610 Mar 10  2004 laby.xpm
  -rw-r--r--  1 nick users4104 Aug 22 15:48 liesmich.txt
  -rwxr-xr-x  1 nick users3890 Aug 22 15:28 readme.txt
  -rwxr-xr-x  1 nick users2023 Mar 10  2004 readme_waffen.txt
  -rwxr-xr-x  1 nick users3197 Aug 18 10:21 readme_zauber.txt
  -rw-r--r--  1 nick users  973752 Aug 15 10:29 sounds.pak
 
  there is no need for the .txt files to be executable, nor the icon
  (laby.xpm), nor the highscores (I hope).

 Every file which comes from Sicromoft (R) Wondies (TM) has execute
 permission set.

 That's not an error. Due to Sicromoft this is a FEATURE ;-)))

  Please advise why these come with the executable permission set, or
  whether this is just an error?
 
  --
  Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-23 Thread Markus Döbele
Purebasic is very fast. The generated assembler code kicks ass.
And I can compile it for Linux, Mac OS and Windows.

If I find a Open Source Basic Compiler that can do the task. I consider 
rewriting it again.

We are programming this game since 12 years :-)
The first Version we programmed on the Atari ST!  :-))
There the language was calles STOS.


Am Dienstag, 23. August 2005 08:33 schrieb Frank Schafer:
 Hi Markus,

 have you ever wondered about the possibility to rewrite your game to
 another programming language. There's a lot of possibilities (even for
 FSF game engines).

 Just a thought
 Frank

 On Mon, 2005-08-22 at 23:42 +0200, Markus Döbele wrote:
  So we have to treat Lost Labyrinth as closed source.
  Because the source code of this game is only useful to other purebasic
  programmers. And people that got the compiler. I understand.
  Can't change that.
 
  Am Montag, 22. August 2005 22:52 schrieb Matan Peled:
   Markus Döbele wrote:
I created a tar.gz Version of this game too.
I'm sorry that its not possible to compile it with the demo version
of the compiler.
   
What are gentoo users doing with other binary packages?
Like Acrobat Reader?
   
Is this a big problem for this system?
  
   No, Portage can handle binary apps just fine. We have Java, Unreal
   Tournament 2k3/2k4, Doom 3, Neverwinter Nights... All kinds of
   binary-only apps.
  
   But all of them are closed-source (Except for the -bin version of some
   rather big packages, manly to save people the compile time...).
  
   It feels kinda wrong to install a binary package of a (small)
   open-source app on a source-based system...
  
   Its also weird having an opensource app that you can only compile using
   a non-free (as in beer) compiler...
  
   --
   [Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
   [Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
   [Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
   [Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
   encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred

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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-23 Thread Frank Schafer
Wow, 1MB sourcecode within 12 years! ;-)

It should be rewriteable to ... say ... C within a few months.

(I prefer C rather than C++)



On Tue, 2005-08-23 at 09:06 +0200, Markus Döbele wrote:
 Purebasic is very fast. The generated assembler code kicks ass.
 And I can compile it for Linux, Mac OS and Windows.
 
 If I find a Open Source Basic Compiler that can do the task. I consider 
 rewriting it again.
 
 We are programming this game since 12 years :-)
 The first Version we programmed on the Atari ST!  :-))
 There the language was calles STOS.
 
 
 Am Dienstag, 23. August 2005 08:33 schrieb Frank Schafer:
  Hi Markus,
 
  have you ever wondered about the possibility to rewrite your game to
  another programming language. There's a lot of possibilities (even for
  FSF game engines).
 
  Just a thought
  Frank
 
  On Mon, 2005-08-22 at 23:42 +0200, Markus Döbele wrote:
   So we have to treat Lost Labyrinth as closed source.
   Because the source code of this game is only useful to other purebasic
   programmers. And people that got the compiler. I understand.
   Can't change that.
  
   Am Montag, 22. August 2005 22:52 schrieb Matan Peled:
Markus Döbele wrote:
 I created a tar.gz Version of this game too.
 I'm sorry that its not possible to compile it with the demo version
 of the compiler.

 What are gentoo users doing with other binary packages?
 Like Acrobat Reader?

 Is this a big problem for this system?
   
No, Portage can handle binary apps just fine. We have Java, Unreal
Tournament 2k3/2k4, Doom 3, Neverwinter Nights... All kinds of
binary-only apps.
   
But all of them are closed-source (Except for the -bin version of some
rather big packages, manly to save people the compile time...).
   
It feels kinda wrong to install a binary package of a (small)
open-source app on a source-based system...
   
Its also weird having an opensource app that you can only compile using
a non-free (as in beer) compiler...
   
--
[Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
[Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
[Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
[Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred
 

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list



Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-23 Thread Nick Rout
On Tue, 2005-08-23 at 08:31 +0200, Frank Schafer wrote:
 Every file which comes from Sicromoft (R) Wondies (TM) has execute
 permission set.
 
 That's not an error. Due to Sicromoft this is a FEATURE ;-)))

That would be an explanation if all the files in the tarball had their
execute bit set, but they don't!

never mind, we will whip these laby guys into decent gentoo shape LOL.

-- 
Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list



Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-23 Thread Frank Schafer
On Tue, 2005-08-23 at 20:38 +1200, Nick Rout wrote:
 On Tue, 2005-08-23 at 08:31 +0200, Frank Schafer wrote:
  Every file which comes from Sicromoft (R) Wondies (TM) has execute
  permission set.
  
  That's not an error. Due to Sicromoft this is a FEATURE ;-)))
 
 That would be an explanation if all the files in the tarball had their
 execute bit set, but they don't!
 
 never mind, we will whip these laby guys into decent gentoo shape LOL.
 
 -- 
 Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

I got the tarball too meanwhile ... and Purebasic itself to have some
docs about that language.
The source isn't that big. Due to the clean structure of the sources
simply converting the BASIC syntax to a more *NIX like language
shouldn't be a that big task too.

I didn't look at the platforms Purebasic runs on but for these variables
'name.?' the '?' is a character defining the number of bytes the
variable occupies.
I don't have a clue how PB handles byte order ... not to mention 64 bit
systems.

If we help such guys into the FSF world we should wonder about
portability too, shouldn't we?

.02$
Frank
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-23 Thread Heinz Sporn
Am Dienstag, den 23.08.2005, 09:06 +0200 schrieb Markus Döbele:
 Purebasic is very fast. The generated assembler code kicks ass.
 And I can compile it for Linux, Mac OS and Windows.
 
 If I find a Open Source Basic Compiler that can do the task. I consider 
 rewriting it again.

Did you ever look at Gambas? http://gambas.sourceforge.net/ At the
moment it's dedicated to X environments with both QT and GTK support but
I wouldn't be suprised if they will support Windoze in the future. The
IDE itself is very nice and the compiler generates smooth code. It's in
Portage BTW. And last but not least they have a very nice community. 

Another option might be RealBasic http://www.realbasic.com/ . The
Current RealBasic version 2005 is commercial, but the older standard
version 5.5 for Windows is free. It's a little strange but with that you
are able to produce native Linux binaries for a QT environment.

 
 We are programming this game since 12 years :-)
 The first Version we programmed on the Atari ST!  :-))
 There the language was calles STOS.
 
 
 Am Dienstag, 23. August 2005 08:33 schrieb Frank Schafer:
  Hi Markus,
 
  have you ever wondered about the possibility to rewrite your game to
  another programming language. There's a lot of possibilities (even for
  FSF game engines).
 
  Just a thought
  Frank
 
  On Mon, 2005-08-22 at 23:42 +0200, Markus Döbele wrote:
   So we have to treat Lost Labyrinth as closed source.
   Because the source code of this game is only useful to other purebasic
   programmers. And people that got the compiler. I understand.
   Can't change that.
  
   Am Montag, 22. August 2005 22:52 schrieb Matan Peled:
Markus Döbele wrote:
 I created a tar.gz Version of this game too.
 I'm sorry that its not possible to compile it with the demo version
 of the compiler.

 What are gentoo users doing with other binary packages?
 Like Acrobat Reader?

 Is this a big problem for this system?
   
No, Portage can handle binary apps just fine. We have Java, Unreal
Tournament 2k3/2k4, Doom 3, Neverwinter Nights... All kinds of
binary-only apps.
   
But all of them are closed-source (Except for the -bin version of some
rather big packages, manly to save people the compile time...).
   
It feels kinda wrong to install a binary package of a (small)
open-source app on a source-based system...
   
Its also weird having an opensource app that you can only compile using
a non-free (as in beer) compiler...
   
--
[Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
[Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
[Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
[Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred
 
-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Heinz Sporn

SPORN it-freelancing

Mobile:  ++43 (0)699 / 127 827 07
Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Website: http://www.sporn-it.com
Snail:   Steyrer Str. 20
 A-4540 Bad Hall
 Austria / Europe

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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-23 Thread Markus Döbele
But this is a game and not an aplication.
I need fast scrolling and all this stuff. I don't think this languages can 
handle that.


Am Dienstag, 23. August 2005 09:57 schrieb Heinz Sporn:
 Am Dienstag, den 23.08.2005, 09:06 +0200 schrieb Markus Döbele:
  Purebasic is very fast. The generated assembler code kicks ass.
  And I can compile it for Linux, Mac OS and Windows.
 
  If I find a Open Source Basic Compiler that can do the task. I consider
  rewriting it again.

 Did you ever look at Gambas? http://gambas.sourceforge.net/ At the
 moment it's dedicated to X environments with both QT and GTK support but
 I wouldn't be suprised if they will support Windoze in the future. The
 IDE itself is very nice and the compiler generates smooth code. It's in
 Portage BTW. And last but not least they have a very nice community.

 Another option might be RealBasic http://www.realbasic.com/ . The
 Current RealBasic version 2005 is commercial, but the older standard
 version 5.5 for Windows is free. It's a little strange but with that you
 are able to produce native Linux binaries for a QT environment.

  We are programming this game since 12 years :-)
  The first Version we programmed on the Atari ST!  :-))
  There the language was calles STOS.
 
  Am Dienstag, 23. August 2005 08:33 schrieb Frank Schafer:
   Hi Markus,
  
   have you ever wondered about the possibility to rewrite your game to
   another programming language. There's a lot of possibilities (even for
   FSF game engines).
  
   Just a thought
   Frank
  
   On Mon, 2005-08-22 at 23:42 +0200, Markus Döbele wrote:
So we have to treat Lost Labyrinth as closed source.
Because the source code of this game is only useful to other
purebasic programmers. And people that got the compiler. I
understand. Can't change that.
   
Am Montag, 22. August 2005 22:52 schrieb Matan Peled:
 Markus Döbele wrote:
  I created a tar.gz Version of this game too.
  I'm sorry that its not possible to compile it with the demo
  version of the compiler.
 
  What are gentoo users doing with other binary packages?
  Like Acrobat Reader?
 
  Is this a big problem for this system?

 No, Portage can handle binary apps just fine. We have Java, Unreal
 Tournament 2k3/2k4, Doom 3, Neverwinter Nights... All kinds of
 binary-only apps.

 But all of them are closed-source (Except for the -bin version of
 some rather big packages, manly to save people the compile
 time...).

 It feels kinda wrong to install a binary package of a (small)
 open-source app on a source-based system...

 Its also weird having an opensource app that you can only compile
 using a non-free (as in beer) compiler...

 --
 [Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
 [Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
 [Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
 [Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
 encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred

 --
 Mit freundlichen Grüßen

 Heinz Sporn

 SPORN it-freelancing

 Mobile:  ++43 (0)699 / 127 827 07
 Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Website: http://www.sporn-it.com
 Snail:   Steyrer Str. 20
  A-4540 Bad Hall
  Austria / Europe

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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-23 Thread Markus Döbele
You are absolutely right.
We got a multidimesional record for the players. Which is called spieler in 
german.

I will step by step translate everything to english if anybody here likes to 
participate in delepment.

Gentoo users seem to be different. Our Windows gamers all never wanted to 
participate in coding, so there has not been a need to rewrite all comments 
and variable names to english.

But I can do that.

Will take a while. But if this is helping I will do that.


Am Dienstag, 23. August 2005 16:47 schrieb Holly Bostick:
 Frank Schafer schreef:
  The only thing I don't understand after 5 minutes looking at the code;
 
  what means:
 
  spieler(i) \Status = 1

 I don't know anything about code, but I looked at this and immediately saw

 spieler = Player

 in German.

 Maybe that helps you understand what it's doing.

 Holly
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-23 Thread Markus Döbele
I got a response of the other programmer.
He told me that we got a cms on this server, which also provides the files.

Is also sends a http header:

Content-disposition: filename=$filename
Content-type: $mimetype
Content-length: $filesize
Pragma: no-cache
Expires: 0

We also got a sourceforge site.
Maybe this is helping?
http://sourceforge.net/projects/lostlaby



Am Dienstag, 23. August 2005 02:05 schrieb Nick Rout:
 I am trying to make an ebuild.

 when i download the compiled tarball with wget using this url:

 http://laby.toybox.de/download15/laby_1.0.1.tar.gz

 I get a file called download2.php\?fileid\=15 which i then have to
 rename to laby_1.0.1.tar.gz

 This is not a good start.

 So whats up with your web server, or is there a better url i could use
 for automated downloading?


 On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 23:42:19 +0200

 Markus Döbele wrote:
  So we have to treat Lost Labyrinth as closed source.
  Because the source code of this game is only useful to other purebasic
  programmers. And people that got the compiler. I understand.
  Can't change that.
 
  Am Montag, 22. August 2005 22:52 schrieb Matan Peled:
   Markus Döbele wrote:
I created a tar.gz Version of this game too.
I'm sorry that its not possible to compile it with the demo version
of the compiler.
   
What are gentoo users doing with other binary packages?
Like Acrobat Reader?
   
Is this a big problem for this system?
  
   No, Portage can handle binary apps just fine. We have Java, Unreal
   Tournament 2k3/2k4, Doom 3, Neverwinter Nights... All kinds of
   binary-only apps.
  
   But all of them are closed-source (Except for the -bin version of some
   rather big packages, manly to save people the compile time...).
  
   It feels kinda wrong to install a binary package of a (small)
   open-source app on a source-based system...
  
   Its also weird having an opensource app that you can only compile using
   a non-free (as in beer) compiler...
  
   --
   [Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
   [Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
   [Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
   [Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
   encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred
 
  --
  gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

 --
 Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-23 Thread Nick Rout
On Tue, 2005-08-23 at 22:02 +0200, Markus Döbele wrote:
 I got a response of the other programmer.
 He told me that we got a cms on this server, which also provides the files.
 
 Is also sends a http header:
 
 Content-disposition: filename=$filename
 Content-type: $mimetype
 Content-length: $filesize
 Pragma: no-cache
 Expires: 0

I am told that wget does not parse headers. 

 
 We also got a sourceforge site.
 Maybe this is helping?
 http://sourceforge.net/projects/lostlaby

That would be good if it had the latest version. It doesn't.

there are facilities built into portage to download from sourceforge
mirrors, but I cannot use it if you don't actually release there)

 
 
 
 Am Dienstag, 23. August 2005 02:05 schrieb Nick Rout:
  I am trying to make an ebuild.
 
  when i download the compiled tarball with wget using this url:
 
  http://laby.toybox.de/download15/laby_1.0.1.tar.gz
 
  I get a file called download2.php\?fileid\=15 which i then have to
  rename to laby_1.0.1.tar.gz
 
  This is not a good start.
 
  So whats up with your web server, or is there a better url i could use
  for automated downloading?
 
 

  --
  Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-23 Thread Nick Rout

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 23:48:45 +0200
Markus Döbele wrote:

 Okay, then lets use sourceforge.
 I will release a new version tonight!  Will be 1.0.2.
 
 (Integrated 10 new magical items, The special levels look really nice now and 
 I included a new one: underground forest. The dragon room is new. And we got 
 a room for trainers now :-)  )
 
 How do we handle it with sourceforge that we always get the newest version?
 Do I have to edit the same release all the time. Or is there a mechanism that 
 gets the neweset file automatically?

The versioning is handled like this:

each ebuild has a name and version in it. I would call the current laby
ebuild laby-1.0.1.ebuild and it would include a line like:

SRC_URI=mirror://sourceforge/synce/${P}.tar.gz

${P} includes the version number automatically.

When a new version is released someone needs to write a new ebuild, but
as all versioning is handled automatically, this is usually just a
matter of copying the previous one and renaming it to e.g.
laby-1.0.2.ebuild.

portage picks up the new version number from the filename and adjusts
the download URL by virtue of the ${P} variable.

It does rely on you keeping the filenaming consistent and not suddenly
changing from laby-1.0.1.tar.gz to lostlabyrinth-1.0.2.tgz.

For more info see

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/handbook/handbook.xml?part=2chap=1


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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-23 Thread A. Khattri
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005, Wayne Clement wrote:

 try PowerBasic

Ah, a contradiction in terms ;-)


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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread Martin Marcher
Am Montag 22 August 2005 08:54 schrieb Matan Peled:
 ; Aktive Zauber loeschen
 For j = 1 To #ANZ_SPIELER
For i = 1 To 15
   aktive (i,j) \nr = 0
   aktive (i,j) \dauer = 0
Next
 Next

looks like some (visual) basic stuff.

hmm maybe I'll download the source and translate the comments to english. so 
if this game has such a big userbase at least the source is 
internationalized :)



pgpqSmTddkviX.pgp
Description: PGP signature


Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread Wayne Clement
try PowerBasic

- Original Message - 
From: Matan Peled [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 2:54 AM
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth


 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Nick Rout wrote:
  what language is it written in?

 Good question. I downloaded the source in attempt to figure it out... The
files
 all have the extension of .pb, all comments start with ;, and a block
of
 code looks something like this:

 ; Aktive Zauber loeschen
 For j = 1 To #ANZ_SPIELER
For i = 1 To 15
   aktive (i,j) \nr = 0
   aktive (i,j) \dauer = 0
Next
 Next

 I don't recognize this language at all...

 - --
 [Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
 [Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
 [Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
 [Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
 encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)

 iD8DBQFDCXakA7Qvptb0LKURAjx6AJ4idkMgj9G652R2sMo0h10VI0vKsQCfcdwH
 0Hkk3RV68p/tUkmZQg639GQ=
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread Matan Peled
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Martin Marcher wrote:
  looks like some (visual) basic stuff.
 
 hmm maybe I'll download the source and translate the comments to english. so 
 if this game has such a big userbase at least the source is 
 internationalized :)
 

It does look very much Basic based... But it couldn't be Visual Basic if it runs
on Linux =/

- --
[Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
[Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
[Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
[Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFDCXwCA7Qvptb0LKURAj70AKCTQfKMoScbGiU27uhwMO0bTP8rmwCffANZ
KYEyq4OGtXvGjZM4y0lygGA=
=ZKMB
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread Matan Peled
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Wayne Clement wrote:
 try PowerBasic

Seems right. And how do I compile it?

- --
[Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
[Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
[Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
[Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFDCX0FA7Qvptb0LKURAl9YAJ9J/s0C4/37Oq1g9Nxb3r/cqqnRTACeJGFR
WDxRFltWeuLKRVqv7GOUrrI=
=ZYU3
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread Wayne Clement
I don't know. Power basic is windows/dos only. I was looking at the .pb.
I did a google and found PureBasic and it has a linux version and apears to
have some visualbasic compatibility.

www.purebasic.com

I didn't see any other that might use the .pb ending.

- Original Message - 
From: Matan Peled [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 3:21 AM
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth


 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 Wayne Clement wrote:
  try PowerBasic
 
 Seems right. And how do I compile it?
 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread Matan Peled
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Wayne Clement wrote:
 I don't know. Power basic is windows/dos only. I was looking at the .pb.
 I did a google and found PureBasic and it has a linux version and apears to
 have some visualbasic compatibility.
 
 www.purebasic.com
 
 I didn't see any other that might use the .pb ending.

And.. Its non free. It does have a demo version, though:

== Figure A ==

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~/temp/laby_source_1.0.1 $ ../purebasic/compilers/pbcompiler
laby.pb

**
PureBasic Linux x86 v3.92 (Demo)
**

Loading external modules...
Starting compilation...
Including source: constants_laby.pb
Including source: constants_sprites.pb
Including source: constants_images.pb
Including source: konstanten.pb
Including source: constants_sounds.pb
Including source: help.pb
Error: Source too big for demo version

== End Figure A ==

Which seems to mean Markus meant to provide a binary version of his game... =/

- --
[Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
[Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
[Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
[Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFDCaP/A7Qvptb0LKURAtFFAJ9np4LmSwbDNuAKkvqWH/eJeqrpAQCfRojj
ow08Gb8o4ndNSvqRLhldSE0=
=W4rP
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread Nick Rout
If you download the compiled rpm and install it (I have rpm emerged into
my system, for mainactor originally I think)

rpm -Uvh --nodeps laby-1.0.1-0.i586.rpm

It installs these files:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~/tmp/laby $ rpm -ql laby
/usr/games/laby/graphics.pak
/usr/games/laby/highscores.dat
/usr/games/laby/laby
/usr/games/laby/laby.xpm
/usr/games/laby/liesmich.txt
/usr/games/laby/purebasic.exe
/usr/games/laby/readme.txt
/usr/games/laby/readme_waffen.txt
/usr/games/laby/readme_zauber.txt
/usr/games/laby/sounds.pak


you can run the game with /usr/games/laby/laby. It runs (although I
haven't worked out how to quit it other than by killing X). A few
instances of purebasic.exe appear in ps, which is odd looking but works.



On Mon, 2005-08-22 at 04:54 -0400, Wayne Clement wrote:
 I don't know. Power basic is windows/dos only. I was looking at the .pb.
 I did a google and found PureBasic and it has a linux version and apears to
 have some visualbasic compatibility.
 
 www.purebasic.com
 
 I didn't see any other that might use the .pb ending.
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Matan Peled [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 3:21 AM
 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth
 
 
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
  Hash: SHA1
  
  Wayne Clement wrote:
   try PowerBasic
  
  Seems right. And how do I compile it?
  
 
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread Martins Steinbergs
i extracted tar.gz version under user and run ~/laby/laby
graphics, sound, everything works nice. no problem quiting. game disables 
Alt+Tab, so to get to other windowed task should quit game.

Martins


On Monday 22 August 2005 13:06, Nick Rout wrote:
 If you download the compiled rpm and install it (I have rpm emerged into
 my system, for mainactor originally I think)

 rpm -Uvh --nodeps laby-1.0.1-0.i586.rpm

 It installs these files:

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~/tmp/laby $ rpm -ql laby
 /usr/games/laby/graphics.pak
 /usr/games/laby/highscores.dat
 /usr/games/laby/laby
 /usr/games/laby/laby.xpm
 /usr/games/laby/liesmich.txt
 /usr/games/laby/purebasic.exe
 /usr/games/laby/readme.txt
 /usr/games/laby/readme_waffen.txt
 /usr/games/laby/readme_zauber.txt
 /usr/games/laby/sounds.pak


 you can run the game with /usr/games/laby/laby. It runs (although I
 haven't worked out how to quit it other than by killing X). A few
 instances of purebasic.exe appear in ps, which is odd looking but works.

 On Mon, 2005-08-22 at 04:54 -0400, Wayne Clement wrote:
  I don't know. Power basic is windows/dos only. I was looking at the
  .pb. I did a google and found PureBasic and it has a linux version and
  apears to have some visualbasic compatibility.
 
  www.purebasic.com
 
  I didn't see any other that might use the .pb ending.
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Matan Peled [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
  Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 3:21 AM
  Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth
 
   -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
   Hash: SHA1
  
   Wayne Clement wrote:
try PowerBasic
  
   Seems right. And how do I compile it?

 --
 Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread Matan Peled
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Martins Steinbergs wrote:
 i extracted tar.gz version under user and run ~/laby/laby
 graphics, sound, everything works nice. no problem quiting. game disables 
 Alt+Tab, so to get to other windowed task should quit game.
 
 Martins

Yeah, it works. Can't compile it, though.

- --
[Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
[Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
[Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
[Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFDCb1vA7Qvptb0LKURArYSAJ4iKVrO60h1K07b0Ouym7o6pbmE3gCeP24Z
WmF/E8k2jz0vAkmTh1kTyQY=
=Pksj
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread Christoph Gysin

Markus Döbele wrote:

A few days ago we finally released the first final version of our game Lost
Labyrinth for Linux.
The newest version at the moment is 1.0.1.

I also created a rpm version of the game. I have no idea yet what I have to do 
to make it easy to install for gentoo users.


We need a tarball witch includes everything needed to build the game. I found a 
tarball with a binary version (laby_1.0.1.tar.gz) and a tarball with the 
sourcefiles only, no graphics etc. (laby_source_1.0.1.tar.gz).


Maybe you like to include our game in your distribution? 
Its only 4.4 MB big.


To get a chance of getting it included in the portage tree, you'll need to 
provide a package with everything needed to build the game from source. Some 
sort of build instruction would also be nice.


You will then need to open a bug on bugs.gentoo.org, requesting an ebuild for 
your application. If there's someone willing to write an ebuild and a dev is 
willing to maintain it, it'll be included in portage.



Its a game like the old Roque and for Windows we have a lot of fans already.
I would love it if we had a lot of Linux gamers too!


Then lets get started!

Christoph
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread Matan Peled
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Christoph Gysin wrote:
 To get a chance of getting it included in the portage tree, you'll need
 to provide a package with everything needed to build the game from
 source. Some sort of build instruction would also be nice.

But we can't... It requires a commercial basic compiler =/

A binary package is our only choice.

- --
[Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
[Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
[Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
[Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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iD8DBQFDCde2A7Qvptb0LKURApEmAJ9T0gm+/4LbwCSBDhrT8A4qGEk5cACggt/J
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread Christoph Gysin

Matan Peled wrote:

Christoph Gysin wrote:


To get a chance of getting it included in the portage tree, you'll need
to provide a package with everything needed to build the game from
source. Some sort of build instruction would also be nice.


But we can't... It requires a commercial basic compiler =/


This is bad. Opensource software shouldn't depend on commercial stuff.

In this case, I'm not willing to spend my time building a package for it.


A binary package is our only choice.


Good luck then...

Christoph
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread Covington, Chris
 This is bad. Opensource software shouldn't depend on commercial stuff.
 
 In this case, I'm not willing to spend my time building a 
 package for it.
 
  A binary package is our only choice.
 
 Good luck then...

Well it's possible to emerge ut2004 which requires you to bring your own
binary.  And when you emerge sun-jdk you need to download Sun's binary.
So I don't know why this game wouldn't be possible, other than maybe
it's not popular enough to afford those concessions.

---
Chris Covington
IT
Plus One Health Management
75 Maiden Lane Suite 801
NY, NY 10038
646-312-6269
http://www.plusoneactive.com

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RE: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread John Dangler
Just my .02 worth - anything for *nix with the word basic in it makes me
shudder...
the only other package I know of that used .pb extensions was powerbuilder.
at one time, it had a lot of promising features, but after being bought
twice and totally commercialized, it turned into another Symantec and their
*nix and mac development went out the window...

John D


-Original Message-
From: Matan Peled [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 12:41 PM
To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Christoph Gysin wrote:
 This is bad. Opensource software shouldn't depend on commercial stuff.

Agreed, I'm not really willing to spend my time on a 'semi-opensource' app
either.

Writing an ebuild for a binary app isn't all that hard, and it might be
accepted
into portage (Other binary games have been accepted, after all).

Good luck, Markus.

- --
[Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
[Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
[Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
[Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFDCgAXA7Qvptb0LKURAvpWAJ4vLkFMupgLN/dhHhmVYsdLpDInBwCdGw4M
+4k/DcV8IWSoNJFjpHz0FL8=
=Xqpk
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread Markus Döbele
Its written in Purebasic.
www.purebasic.com

And it needs sdl to run.


Am Montag, 22. August 2005 07:40 schrieb Nick Rout:
 On Mon, 2005-08-22 at 07:06 +0200, Markus Döbele wrote:
  I also created a rpm version of the game. I have no idea yet what I
  have to do
  to make it easy to install for gentoo users.
 
  Maybe you like to include our game in your distribution?
  Its only 4.4 MB big.
  Its a game like the old Roque and for Windows we have a lot of fans
  already.
  I would love it if we had a lot of Linux gamers too!

 Basically gentoo users will want to download it and compile it. Someone
 will need to create an ebuild for it.

 So:

 what language is it written in?
 what libraries are needed to compile it?
 what libraries are needed to run it?
 is there anything tricky about compiling and running it?



 --
 Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread Markus Döbele
If people like to get involved in programming for this game I will translate 
everything to english. The game itself I translated to english, german and 
spanish.


Am Montag, 22. August 2005 09:01 schrieb Martin Marcher:
 Am Montag 22 August 2005 08:54 schrieb Matan Peled:
  ; Aktive Zauber loeschen
  For j = 1 To #ANZ_SPIELER
 For i = 1 To 15
aktive (i,j) \nr = 0
aktive (i,j) \dauer = 0
 Next
  Next

 looks like some (visual) basic stuff.

 hmm maybe I'll download the source and translate the comments to english.
 so if this game has such a big userbase at least the source is
 internationalized :)
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread Markus Döbele
I created a tar.gz Version of this game too.
I'm sorry that its not possible to compile it with the demo version of the 
compiler.

What are gentoo users doing with other binary packages?
Like Acrobat Reader?

Is this a big problem for this system?


Am Montag, 22. August 2005 12:07 schrieb Matan Peled:
 Wayne Clement wrote:
  I don't know. Power basic is windows/dos only. I was looking at the
  .pb. I did a google and found PureBasic and it has a linux version and
  apears to have some visualbasic compatibility.
 
  www.purebasic.com
 
  I didn't see any other that might use the .pb ending.

 And.. Its non free. It does have a demo version, though:

 == Figure A ==

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~/temp/laby_source_1.0.1 $
 ../purebasic/compilers/pbcompiler laby.pb

 **
 PureBasic Linux x86 v3.92 (Demo)
 **

 Loading external modules...
 Starting compilation...
 Including source: constants_laby.pb
 Including source: constants_sprites.pb
 Including source: constants_images.pb
 Including source: konstanten.pb
 Including source: constants_sounds.pb
 Including source: help.pb
 Error: Source too big for demo version

 == End Figure A ==

 Which seems to mean Markus meant to provide a binary version of his game...
 =/

 --
 [Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
 [Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
 [Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
 [Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
 encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread Markus Döbele
Thats the way all the old versions had to be started. For the 1.0.0 Version I 
created a rpm. To make it easier for suse, mandrake and redhat Users. But I 
want to create a deb and an ebuild for gentoo too.
Maybe somebody from the gentoo team likes to help me with this.

Am Montag, 22. August 2005 13:40 schrieb Martins Steinbergs:
 i extracted tar.gz version under user and run ~/laby/laby
 graphics, sound, everything works nice. no problem quiting. game disables
 Alt+Tab, so to get to other windowed task should quit game.

 Martins

 On Monday 22 August 2005 13:06, Nick Rout wrote:
  If you download the compiled rpm and install it (I have rpm emerged into
  my system, for mainactor originally I think)
 
  rpm -Uvh --nodeps laby-1.0.1-0.i586.rpm
 
  It installs these files:
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~/tmp/laby $ rpm -ql laby
  /usr/games/laby/graphics.pak
  /usr/games/laby/highscores.dat
  /usr/games/laby/laby
  /usr/games/laby/laby.xpm
  /usr/games/laby/liesmich.txt
  /usr/games/laby/purebasic.exe
  /usr/games/laby/readme.txt
  /usr/games/laby/readme_waffen.txt
  /usr/games/laby/readme_zauber.txt
  /usr/games/laby/sounds.pak
 
 
  you can run the game with /usr/games/laby/laby. It runs (although I
  haven't worked out how to quit it other than by killing X). A few
  instances of purebasic.exe appear in ps, which is odd looking but works.
 
  On Mon, 2005-08-22 at 04:54 -0400, Wayne Clement wrote:
   I don't know. Power basic is windows/dos only. I was looking at the
   .pb. I did a google and found PureBasic and it has a linux version
   and apears to have some visualbasic compatibility.
  
   www.purebasic.com
  
   I didn't see any other that might use the .pb ending.
  
   - Original Message -
   From: Matan Peled [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
   Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 3:21 AM
   Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth
  
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
   
Wayne Clement wrote:
 try PowerBasic
   
Seems right. And how do I compile it?
 
  --
  Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread Markus Döbele
ebuild sounds good to me :-)
I think it should be as easy as possible for gentoo users to install the game.

Its fully open source. Only the compiler is not.


Am Montag, 22. August 2005 18:40 schrieb Matan Peled:
 Christoph Gysin wrote:
  This is bad. Opensource software shouldn't depend on commercial stuff.

 Agreed, I'm not really willing to spend my time on a 'semi-opensource' app
 either.

 Writing an ebuild for a binary app isn't all that hard, and it might be
 accepted into portage (Other binary games have been accepted, after all).

 Good luck, Markus.

 --
 [Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
 [Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
 [Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
 [Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
 encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread Markus Döbele
Its purebasic , not powerbuilder.
And the reason why people use it, is because you can compile your games for 
windows, linux and mac. I dont think this is going to change.

The other version we have is in blitzbasic. Which only exists for windows.
So I invested a lot of time to rewrite it for a compiler that exists for 
Linux.

I can't see a reason not to play this little game.


Am Montag, 22. August 2005 19:41 schrieb John Dangler:
 Just my .02 worth - anything for *nix with the word basic in it makes me
 shudder...
 the only other package I know of that used .pb extensions was powerbuilder.
 at one time, it had a lot of promising features, but after being bought
 twice and totally commercialized, it turned into another Symantec and their
 *nix and mac development went out the window...

 John D


 -Original Message-
 From: Matan Peled [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 12:41 PM
 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

 Christoph Gysin wrote:
  This is bad. Opensource software shouldn't depend on commercial stuff.

 Agreed, I'm not really willing to spend my time on a 'semi-opensource' app
 either.

 Writing an ebuild for a binary app isn't all that hard, and it might be
 accepted
 into portage (Other binary games have been accepted, after all).

 Good luck, Markus.

 --
 [Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
 [Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
 [Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
 [Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
 encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred

 --
 gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread Matan Peled
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Markus Döbele wrote:
 I created a tar.gz Version of this game too.
 I'm sorry that its not possible to compile it with the demo version of the 
 compiler.
 
 What are gentoo users doing with other binary packages?
 Like Acrobat Reader?
 
 Is this a big problem for this system?

No, Portage can handle binary apps just fine. We have Java, Unreal Tournament
2k3/2k4, Doom 3, Neverwinter Nights... All kinds of binary-only apps.

But all of them are closed-source (Except for the -bin version of some rather
big packages, manly to save people the compile time...).

It feels kinda wrong to install a binary package of a (small) open-source app on
a source-based system...

Its also weird having an opensource app that you can only compile using a
non-free (as in beer) compiler...

- --
[Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
[Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
[Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
[Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFDCjr6A7Qvptb0LKURAuu1AJ0dnvEMCwoWYOmvrDVlylW/2bTQCACfe4h2
YLkvEBo7vCnlGtmppaHlfAE=
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread Markus Döbele
So we have to treat Lost Labyrinth as closed source.
Because the source code of this game is only useful to other purebasic 
programmers. And people that got the compiler. I understand.
Can't change that.


Am Montag, 22. August 2005 22:52 schrieb Matan Peled:
 Markus Döbele wrote:
  I created a tar.gz Version of this game too.
  I'm sorry that its not possible to compile it with the demo version of
  the compiler.
 
  What are gentoo users doing with other binary packages?
  Like Acrobat Reader?
 
  Is this a big problem for this system?

 No, Portage can handle binary apps just fine. We have Java, Unreal
 Tournament 2k3/2k4, Doom 3, Neverwinter Nights... All kinds of binary-only
 apps.

 But all of them are closed-source (Except for the -bin version of some
 rather big packages, manly to save people the compile time...).

 It feels kinda wrong to install a binary package of a (small) open-source
 app on a source-based system...

 Its also weird having an opensource app that you can only compile using a
 non-free (as in beer) compiler...

 --
 [Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
 [Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
 [Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
 [Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
 encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred

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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread Nick Rout
I am trying to make an ebuild.

when i download the compiled tarball with wget using this url:

http://laby.toybox.de/download15/laby_1.0.1.tar.gz

I get a file called download2.php\?fileid\=15 which i then have to
rename to laby_1.0.1.tar.gz

This is not a good start.

So whats up with your web server, or is there a better url i could use
for automated downloading?


On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 23:42:19 +0200
Markus Döbele wrote:

 So we have to treat Lost Labyrinth as closed source.
 Because the source code of this game is only useful to other purebasic 
 programmers. And people that got the compiler. I understand.
 Can't change that.
 
 
 Am Montag, 22. August 2005 22:52 schrieb Matan Peled:
  Markus Döbele wrote:
   I created a tar.gz Version of this game too.
   I'm sorry that its not possible to compile it with the demo version of
   the compiler.
  
   What are gentoo users doing with other binary packages?
   Like Acrobat Reader?
  
   Is this a big problem for this system?
 
  No, Portage can handle binary apps just fine. We have Java, Unreal
  Tournament 2k3/2k4, Doom 3, Neverwinter Nights... All kinds of binary-only
  apps.
 
  But all of them are closed-source (Except for the -bin version of some
  rather big packages, manly to save people the compile time...).
 
  It feels kinda wrong to install a binary package of a (small) open-source
  app on a source-based system...
 
  Its also weird having an opensource app that you can only compile using a
  non-free (as in beer) compiler...
 
  --
  [Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
  [Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
  [Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
  [Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
  encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred
 
 -- 
 gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

-- 
Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread Markus Döbele
I forwarded this message to the other programmer of laby that is maintaining 
the homepage. I let you know what we can do.

I never used wget. But could you specify that he downloads everthing from 
http://laby.toybox.de/download15/; ? Because there I will store all the 
future versions of the game. The names will change. But it will always be 
only one file.

Maybe its even possible to find out whats the name of the file?

I know nothing about wget. But try to help as far as can!



Am Dienstag, 23. August 2005 02:05 schrieb Nick Rout:
 I am trying to make an ebuild.

 when i download the compiled tarball with wget using this url:

 http://laby.toybox.de/download15/laby_1.0.1.tar.gz

 I get a file called download2.php\?fileid\=15 which i then have to
 rename to laby_1.0.1.tar.gz

 This is not a good start.

 So whats up with your web server, or is there a better url i could use
 for automated downloading?


 On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 23:42:19 +0200

 Markus Döbele wrote:
  So we have to treat Lost Labyrinth as closed source.
  Because the source code of this game is only useful to other purebasic
  programmers. And people that got the compiler. I understand.
  Can't change that.
 
  Am Montag, 22. August 2005 22:52 schrieb Matan Peled:
   Markus Döbele wrote:
I created a tar.gz Version of this game too.
I'm sorry that its not possible to compile it with the demo version
of the compiler.
   
What are gentoo users doing with other binary packages?
Like Acrobat Reader?
   
Is this a big problem for this system?
  
   No, Portage can handle binary apps just fine. We have Java, Unreal
   Tournament 2k3/2k4, Doom 3, Neverwinter Nights... All kinds of
   binary-only apps.
  
   But all of them are closed-source (Except for the -bin version of some
   rather big packages, manly to save people the compile time...).
  
   It feels kinda wrong to install a binary package of a (small)
   open-source app on a source-based system...
  
   Its also weird having an opensource app that you can only compile using
   a non-free (as in beer) compiler...
  
   --
   [Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
   [Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
   [Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
   [Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
   encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred
 
  --
  gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

 --
 Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-22 Thread Nick Rout
On Tue, 2005-08-23 at 03:25 +0200, Markus Döbele wrote:
 I forwarded this message to the other programmer of laby that is maintaining 
 the homepage. I let you know what we can do.
 
 I never used wget. But could you specify that he downloads everthing from 
 http://laby.toybox.de/download15/; ? Because there I will store all the 
 future versions of the game. The names will change. But it will always be 
 only one file.
 
 Maybe its even possible to find out whats the name of the file?
 
 I know nothing about wget. But try to help as far as can!


OK I have asked some questions on the gentoo developer list and the
consensus is that the file needs to download cleanly with wget or else
there are problems incorporating it into a gentoo ebuild without
repackaging the file and/or the gentoo project mirroring it for you. In
fact most of the comments were along the lines tell the labyrinth
distributors to fix their crap webserver or words to that effect.
Frankly there is no reason to have a redirect on a simple file download.

Just show you can show the guys who run your web server, this is what
happens when you try to download the file using wget, the web server
redirects the download and you end up with a funny named file. Here is
the output:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~/tmp/laby $ wget
http://laby.toybox.de/download15/laby_1.0.1.tar.gz
--17:10:54--  http://laby.toybox.de/download15/laby_1.0.1.tar.gz
   = `laby_1.0.1.tar.gz.1'
Resolving laby.toybox.de... 212.227.43.232
Connecting to laby.toybox.de[212.227.43.232]:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 302 Found
Location: http://laby.toybox.de/download2.php?fileid=15 [following]
--17:10:56--  http://laby.toybox.de/download2.php?fileid=15
   = `download2.php?fileid=15'
Connecting to laby.toybox.de[212.227.43.232]:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 4,882,608 [application/x-tgz]

As you can see it is the redirect that is the problem. The same thing
happens if you just try the directory name as you suggested:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~/tmp/laby $ wget http://laby.toybox.de/download15/
--17:12:24--  http://laby.toybox.de/download15/
   = `index.html'
Resolving laby.toybox.de... 212.227.43.232
Connecting to laby.toybox.de[212.227.43.232]:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 302 Found
Location: http://laby.toybox.de/download2.php?fileid=15 [following]
--17:12:28--  http://laby.toybox.de/download2.php?fileid=15
   = `download2.php?fileid=15'
Connecting to laby.toybox.de[212.227.43.232]:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 4,882,608 [application/x-tgz]



Anyway, if you fix the downloading, I will do my best to write you an
ebuild. I am half way through it. 


 
 
 
 Am Dienstag, 23. August 2005 02:05 schrieb Nick Rout:
  I am trying to make an ebuild.
 
  when i download the compiled tarball with wget using this url:
 
  http://laby.toybox.de/download15/laby_1.0.1.tar.gz
 
  I get a file called download2.php\?fileid\=15 which i then have to
  rename to laby_1.0.1.tar.gz
 
  This is not a good start.
 
  So whats up with your web server, or is there a better url i could use
  for automated downloading?
 
 
  On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 23:42:19 +0200
 
  Markus Döbele wrote:
   So we have to treat Lost Labyrinth as closed source.
   Because the source code of this game is only useful to other purebasic
   programmers. And people that got the compiler. I understand.
   Can't change that.
  
   Am Montag, 22. August 2005 22:52 schrieb Matan Peled:
Markus Döbele wrote:
 I created a tar.gz Version of this game too.
 I'm sorry that its not possible to compile it with the demo version
 of the compiler.

 What are gentoo users doing with other binary packages?
 Like Acrobat Reader?

 Is this a big problem for this system?
   
No, Portage can handle binary apps just fine. We have Java, Unreal
Tournament 2k3/2k4, Doom 3, Neverwinter Nights... All kinds of
binary-only apps.
   
But all of them are closed-source (Except for the -bin version of some
rather big packages, manly to save people the compile time...).
   
It feels kinda wrong to install a binary package of a (small)
open-source app on a source-based system...
   
Its also weird having an opensource app that you can only compile using
a non-free (as in beer) compiler...
   
--
[Name  ]   ::  [Matan I. Peled]
[Location  ]   ::  [Israel]
[Public Key]   ::  [0xD6F42CA5]
[Keyserver ]   ::  [keyserver.kjsl.com]
encrypted/signed  plain text  preferred
  
   --
   gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
 
  --
  Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
-- 
Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Lost Labyrinth

2005-08-21 Thread Nick Rout
On Mon, 2005-08-22 at 07:06 +0200, Markus Döbele wrote:
 I also created a rpm version of the game. I have no idea yet what I
 have to do 
 to make it easy to install for gentoo users.
 
 Maybe you like to include our game in your distribution? 
 Its only 4.4 MB big.
 Its a game like the old Roque and for Windows we have a lot of fans
 already.
 I would love it if we had a lot of Linux gamers too!

Basically gentoo users will want to download it and compile it. Someone
will need to create an ebuild for it.

So:

what language is it written in?
what libraries are needed to compile it?
what libraries are needed to run it?
is there anything tricky about compiling and running it?


 
-- 
Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
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