Re: [h-cost] questions about wool
http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com is probably your best bet for price selection, but be warned of a couple of things. First, I've watched the owner as he takes a brief look and feel of unlabelled fabric before deciding what to sell it as--100% wool ain't always 100% wool. Scary, no? He may not care about that 2% poly or lycra, but it makes a big difference to us. But most of the fabric he gets is labelled, and he does know a lot about fabric, so it's not quite as scary as it sounds. Second, and something that should definitely be kept in mind for all fabrics from that site, just because two fabrics have the exact name, description, and price, doesn't mean that they're the same fabric. In fact, they're almost never the same fabric; once in a while he does get the same fabric in different colors, but it's rare indeed. If it's really important, order 1/8 yd as a sample. All that said, even though my personal preference is heavily on the worsted side, I'd say you're definitely right about woolens being your best choice, and not just because of the warmth. In the 14thC, fulled wool the hip fabric, and as far as I can tell from my research, the biggest difference that the impact of wealth would have had on the fabric choice (apart from dye) would have been how well ( how many times) the wool would have been fulled sheared. When I saw wool that had been thoroughly fulled sheared multiple times in a period manner, I was shocked at how UNfulled it looked to my eye. After that much work, I was expecting it to resemble felt (the way that melton does) but it wasn't the least bit felt-like and the weave was still clearly visible--it looked more to me like a slightly threadbare flannel. (Speaking of which, flannel or some similar plain-weave woolen would probably be closest to the most typical 14thC choices.) Modern woolens go through an extensive finishing process--even the cheap ones. The fabric you'd be buying has already been fulled! People (like me, sometimes) who buy a woolen and then immediately set off to full it are just fulling it MORE--it's absolutely not necessary if you just want fulled wool. It's already been fulled. However, as part of that finishing process, the amount of shrinkage allowed is strictly controlled, so if you want to shrink the fabric further and tighten the weave more, extra fulling is necessary, and might be a good idea if you plan to dag it. Making sure that the fabric can handle your typical washing regime is different; you don't need to expose it to the extremes and the harsh treatment that are required for fulling, just in order to make sure that it can handle the gentle cycle. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Nouveau riche in 1926
For images of the era, if you go to: http://www.loc.gov and do a search for 1926, you'll find more than you know what to do with, especially here: http://lcweb2.loc.gov/pp/pphome.html and here: http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/index.html -E ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Nouveau riche in 1926
- Original Message - From: Abel, Cynthia [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sources would be 1926 films. Seems like a great chance to get acquainted with Harold Lloyd's films to me! Mmmm, Harold Lloyd. -E Don't need no steenken Chaplin House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] middle ages: braies for women?
- Original Message - From: Zuzana Kraemerova [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, in a chapter about women's underwear, I found a picture of a woman wearing something like male braies, and another picture depicting a woman with a garment that looked like today's pants or knickers. It was redrawn, but if I could only remember the source... I betcha the top image here was at least one of them: http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/library/drawers.htm The author said nothing and it looked like he was thinking it was a general practice for women to wear such underclothes. Well, if I remember right, all history of underwear books tell you what a scandal it was when (was it catherine de medici?) in the 16th century started to wear drawers, inspired by the eastern countries. Then, it was actually the 19th century when drawers became common and were no sign of scandal or anything else. From what I've read--not that I've researched it seriously or anything--there was a good bit of scandal associated with the wearing of drawers/pantaloons/pantalettes (ankle-length drawers) in the early 19thC (starting in 1806). It was considered highly indecent to have anything between your legs like that; the shameless hussies, wearing men's garments! Also, a flesh-toned pair worn under a sheer gown, as apparently was sometimes done, presented a very scandalously risque look--think wet t-shirt with no bra, especially since dashing females are said to have dampened their dresses to make them cling. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] middle ages: braies for women?
- Original Message - From: Chris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... Basically, what I think she winds up saying is that virtually all the pictorial examples of women wearing braies in medieval Western Europe turn out to fit into one of two themes: (1) mythical women such as the Amazon warrior queen Penthisilea; or (2) who wears the pants in the family arguments between women and men. Neither one of these seems intended as a realistic picture of what women actually wore. It's been a while since I've read any of the texts in question, but I seem to remember running across quite a few crude gothic-era jokes about women, particularly mothers-in-law, falling down stairs or the like and landing with their nekkid bum in the air. The jokes wouldn't have worked nearly so well if the women in question were wearing braies... -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Lucrezia (was: Laudonia de Medici/Laudomia)
I really liked the picture someone posted of Lucrezia: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Agnolo_Bronzino%2C_ritratto_di_Lucrezia_de%27_Medici.JPG Does anyone have a higher resolution version of that one? -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Blackwork in Lady in Green
I think it was posted here a few weeks back, but just in case you don't have it, there's a nice hi-res version of this at: http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/microsites/theartofitaly/object.asp?row=13exhibs=CITAFLOROitem=14 or if that link doesn't work, http://snipurl.com/1q4zn Not my era/area, but whenever I see such wonderful detail I'm tempted to make the thing anyway! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] tea as dye
From: Agnes Gawne [EMAIL PROTECTED] the best tea dying I have found is from Nambarrie's Tea from Belfast - it dyes cups, teeth and fabrics. My experiment with saving used tea bags for future tea dying did not end well. Rather, it ended with me holding something at arm's length and sprinting for the trash. Oh, well, luckily tea's not that expensive anymore. I've been trying different types of teas lately, now that I'm trying to get back into drinking it daily, and have been surprised to notice how wide a range of colors I see. When I was half the age I am now, I tried tea dying as a means of giving something an antiquey look, and gave up in disgust at the pinky peachy caucasian-flesh-tone I kept getting. Now I wish I'd tried different types of tea instead of giving up! My spent green tea bags stain the paper towel I put them on the perfect yellowed linen color... When I'm done running around like a chicken with its head cut off planning my move/house-building/house purchase halfway across the country (WA, NH, MT, or WY, depending on which job the husband takes) I plan to try various types of cheap grocery store tea to find out what color each yields. Unless anyone knows of a website out there where someone has already done the work for me! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ice, was: ironing washed linen and misc.
I hate ice in my soda because it makes flat and watery, so whenever I'm at a restaurant I ask for soda, no ice. The annoying thing, though, is that they pour the soda from the same container as the soda with ice, so I'm still getting flat, watery soda. Argh. One of the many reasons I am slowly but surely switching to tea. Costume content... uhm... uh... Ohyeah. I'm saving all my used tea bags for future dying projects! And I'm learning which types of tea dye what color. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Looking for detail of image ca. 1510
Great scan! I too was almost positive I'd seen a larger image posted on some list somewhere, though I could easily be thinking of some other chemise with similar black ribbons. It looks to me like the black ribbons are laced through loops on the stem end of each tulip, so surely the tulips will need to be metal-based for this to work, right? The loops appear to hold their shape rather than pulling out of shape under the pressure, which screams metal to me. -E House (I've really got to start experimenting with cast pewter.) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Looking for detail of image ca. 1510
Here's the biggest I could find on the web: http://www.utfinalese.it/pagine/abiti.html (scroll down 1 screen) -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] ironing washed linen--warning
Please be warned--ironing wet or even just damp linen stretches it out a LOT. This can have all sorts of annoying effects if you plan to make/have made a fitted or supportive garment out of it, or if it's being used as a lining for wool, or if you don't want to have to iron the garment EVERY SINGLE TIME before wearing it to keep the seams from puckering horribly. Voice of experience, in case you couldn't tell... -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] OT but amazing: early color photography
I had reason to re-find this site recently, and thought I'd finally get around to sharing it: http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/empire/ These are _color_ photographs (not colorized, but actual color) from the first 2 decades of the 20th century, and--ob. costume content--show some amazing ethnic Edwardian era clothing. To look through them all rather than just selections, try this link: http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/p?pp/prok:@field(NUMBER+prok)::SortBy=CALL though it may expire. If it doesn't work, from the main page click Search the entire collection then preview: all the images. Worth it. -E ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] OT but amazing: early color photography
- Original Message - From: Saragrace Knauf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anyone have a clue what the cartridge like things are on some of the men's costume? - http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/empire/images/p87_7010__01477_.jpg Do you mean the pleats, or the shells? =} I'm pretty sure they are actually wearing amunition--I'd guess this guy is a cossack, known for their military prowess. Those things look like muzzle-loading paper cartridges: http://cartridgecollectors.org/slics2006/whitworth.jpg http://www.horsesoldier.com/catalog/c0034.html or much less likely, cleaner bullets: http://www.fototime.com/F3B7ACC989A3679/orig.jpg They would have been a good 50 years or so out of date at the time of this photo, but still used in areas like this. -E House (Mmm, a handy dandy pocket-sized time machine, like I always wanted!) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] OT but amazing: early color photography
- Original Message - From: Saragrace Knauf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fabulous! Do you think it is wrong to assume that most of the materials and sewing at this point over there were still hand made? Just looking at the hut in the Profile of a Nomad - the precision is so incredible. I feel like it is a peek back into time as to how incredibly talented human beings can be with just hand tools. I am so fascinated by these pictures... they make the history home to me so much more than anything else I've seen. I've always been fascinated by Russia, partly because western Russia is Fairytale Land to me, but mostly because Russia has made such a habit of being way behind the times. The people in those pictures had far more in common with 16thC or earlier western Europe than with early 20th western Europe! (And to look at the depressed faces of Russian peasants only a few years before the revolution... wow.) And then when I think that these pictures predate Max Tilke's book on Asian costume...! Complete old photo geek, I am. I'm not at all interested in replicating Russian costume, and I expected to be disappointed that there's only a handful of pictures of c1910 western European costume, but no. It's the Russian costumes I'm drooling over, even though I still don't want to make them! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Headwear to go with Gothic Fitted Dresses
Apart from the padded roll Sharon suggested, or a foofy feathered hat like Ms April from the Tres Riche Heures, you're going to run into problems finding some commonly worn head covering that _doesn't_ cover the ears! But if all the members of your group have longish hair, you could go for the maiden look, with an uncovered head and nicely braided hair. If you go that route, I think your best bet would be this sort of thing: http://snipurl.com/1p9xy http://www.nd.edu/~medvllib/daylife/tac1995/79v-1L.jpg http://www.godecookery.com/tacuin/tacuin22.htm where a braid on each side of the back wraps around to the front and over the top-front of the head, sort of like a headband; the ends are tucked in. For very long hair, you can cross the braids in back before wrapping them, which is probably more accurate. The style can be done even with shortish hair, though, if you french braid each side from the back to the front. In fact, you don't need to braid it at all; just wrap it: http://www.encyclopedie-universelle.com/images/abricot-tacuinum-sanitatis-codex-vienne.jpg It's more of a stereotypically Italian look, at least for the early 15thC, but later in the 15thC pops up with relative frequency around the western part of the continent. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] need a wee bit o'help
otsisto wrote: I am not good at drafting patterns and I asm have a fog. I want to achieve this bodice. http://www.homolaicus.com/arte/pittrici/madre.jpg Well, to make things much less clear, there are these patterns of women's gowns from a similar time place: http://www.elizabethancostume.net/Tailors/ Specifically: http://www.elizabethancostume.net/Tailors/pages/f101V.html which is illustrated here: http://www.elizabethancostume.net/Tailors/pages/f102R.html and http://www.elizabethancostume.net/Tailors/pages/f94V.html which is illustrated here: http://www.elizabethancostume.net/Tailors/pages/f94R.html Now, the bottom two pieces on both patterns are almost certainly skirt pieces, with the piece on the right being upside down. The top piece on the 1st pattern is almost certainly the sleeve, which leaves the middle (on the 1st pattern) and top (on the 2nd pattern) piece for the bodice. The darn thing is nonsensical, though. No matter how I turn it around mentally, it just refuses to coalesce into any useable bodice pattern piece. Maybe I'll have to actually cut one out of a piece of scrap fabric and experiment with it! It looks more like a short sleeve puff, but the edges don't match up properly, and the 1st dress doesn't _have_ sleeve puffs. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] help dating a portrait of Mary Tudor
- Original Message - From: Melissa Brown Muckart [EMAIL PROTECTED] As the 2nd portrait was done in 1516, would the bottom half of the dress (as seen in the first portrait) be appropriate for the time). I'm oh so new to Tudor costuming and have a sneaking suspicion that the open fronted skirt comes into fashion a bit later... but I'm a complete newbie to this so that's based on nothing but having looked at a few dozen photos. The split-front skirt wasn't _common_ until later, but it did appear on very fashionable women (for example, Anne de Bretagne) this early and even earlier. Mary was a famous beauty and a fashion icon, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see her wearing it, especially after time in the court where A de B had worn it so recently. Here's A de B in split skirts just a few years before: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/AdBreceivingHistoryOfBretagne.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1508AdeBbyJeanPerreal.jpg (I have another dozen or so c1500 split skirt images on various people, if anyone is looking to document them.) That said, I look at this painting with deep suspicion. The part that was copied from the Brandon portrait looks like it could concievably have been done in the 16thC, but the trim along the bottom of the skirt looks 243 different kinds of wrong for this time period. At this time, the waist seam was not universal, though it showed up often enough that--given the habit of portrait sitters of putting their arms RIGHT THERE--it's generally a toss-up on any given portrait whether or not the sitter had one. The few images from that decade that actually show the waist clearly show more gowns without visible waist seams, at least in the front; almost all had waist seams across the back. It's possible that some of the smooth-fronted gowns did have hidden waist seams across the front (probably around where the belt falls, i.e. sometimes a dropped waist) but the desired look is clearly that of no waist seam. Here are some typical gowns of the French court, 1513-1517: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1513claudeoffrance.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1517queenclaudecrowned.jpg I keep pointing to the French court, because even though Anne's earlier marriage was short, she went straight from it to the Brandon marriage, and so is likely to have been wearing French fashions for the wedding portrait. The Brandon marriage portrait dress is slightly deceptive in terms of figuring out exactly what she's wearing. First, because of the large amount of pearls--which may or may not have been on the actual dress, but were probably either added or exaggerated by the painter--and second because the undersleeves are the same color as the oversleeves. The actual dress was probably much like this: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1500-25lieges.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/manuscripts.jpg (Simon Bening, c1515) http://www.formfunction.org/temp/c1518portraitofawoman_circleofandreadelsarto.jpg (Looks Victorian, but was actually done by a visiting Italian, hence the different style--and yep, that looks like a split skirt to me too.) -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] straight/bias gore question
I make all my own dress patterns, and I specifically design them so that I can sew straight-to-bias on the skirt area whenever possible. The straight edge goes on the front, bias to the back; to my eye, it hangs best that way, since the skirt sort of tends to flow out behind you better. Another benefit is that your gown will need little if any hanging before being hemmed; I don't even bother any more, since hanging didn't make any visible difference even after weeks. Also, it will make your cutting layouts much more efficient! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Article on Russian Viking-era find
Not surprisingly, I don't speak Russian, but on the Russian site it looks to me like that second smaller sketch shows the front of the apron folded into that shape--sort of like a giant box pleat held in place by the brooches--rather than with a second narrower apron over it. At least, it makes a lot more sense to me that way. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Questions: Tibetan Panel Coat
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 47 inches long would be almost floor-length on me, and I know that's too long. I need to shorten this, but how _much_ do I need to shorten it? Unless I'm remembering wrong, most patterns are made with a height of 5'6 (66) in mind. Figure out the difference between that and your height, then subtract a tad less (to keep things proportional) from the 47. So if you're 5' even (60) then you'd wind up with a new length of 41, but you'd add in about an inch because the heads of people who are 5' tall are generally the same size as people who are 5'6 tall, winding up with a new length of 42. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] OT: Aluminum Swan Garb Competition
ALUMINUM SWAN GARB COMPETITION Sometimes you feel like an authenticity nut, and well, sometimes you don't. In recognition of those times when you don't, the Pre-Raphaelite Garb Yahoo list is instituting the Aluminum Swan Award, to honor the best NON-authentic garb. Taking our inspiration from the romanticized Victorian Pre-Raphaelite depictions of medieval clothing--and from Victorian costume books in general--the Pre-Raph list relishes the clothing that you thought was historical, before you knew better. The Aluminum Swan Award will be won by the person who does the best job of depicting those youthful medieval fantasies. If you were costuming the Lord of the Rings movies, what would you make? If you were the Princess Bride, what would you wear to the wedding? When you picture a damsel in distress, what does her gown look like? Are Rapunzel's dresses as long as her tresses? What does a knight in shining armor wear when he's lounging around the castle? Guidelines: -- The clothing should look as though it's from the medieval or renaissance period to the uneducated eye. -- You may use any fabric you wish, including rayon, polyester, stretch crushed velvet, gold lame, and the like. -- You may use any modern construction techniques you want, including machine sewing, serging, iron-on interfacing, and so on. -- You may purchase parts or props for your outfit, but the majority must be made by you. -- You may use elements from pre-existing garments or outfits, but may not re-use a pre-existing outfit without significantly updating it specifically for this contest. -- Several people may collaborate to submit a group entry. Entries will be judged by myself, taking into account both popular acclaim and the following criteria: -- How medieval(oid) is the overall effect? -- Would you fit in well at a Victorian fancy dress party? -- Have you taken recognizeable elements from real medieval or renaissance clothing and rearranged them to suit your own taste and/or the tastes of modern (or Victorian) fashion? -- How complex is the outfit? -- How creative is the concept? Extra credit will be awarded to anyone who can prove they've worn their entry in public, especially at a medieval or renaissance-themed event. All participants will receive an origami swan made of aluminum foil, and the winner will receive an award token as well as their choice of Pre-Raphaelite poster from http://www.allposters.com/-st/The-Pre-Raphaelite-Brotherhood-Posters_c2112_.htm up to $35 including SH (or a $35 gift certificate towards the purchase of a more expensive poster). If a group wins, each member will receive an award token, but only one gift certificate will be awarded. To enter, please send: -- pictures of your outfit -- a short write-up -- your contact info including your address -- written permission to display your images on the Pre-Raphaelite Garb list for judging as well as on a website displaying the contest participant and winner To: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PreRaphaeliteGarb/ or directly to me, at formfunc (at) formfunction.org. Entries must be submitted by Oct 1, 2007. Winner will be announced Oct 15, 2007, or at my convenience. -E House, List Owner, Pre-Raphaelite Garb ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] OT: Aluminum Swan Garb Competition
- Original Message - From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oh! I've got some lime green crushed stretch velvet and multicolour silver tinsel trim just WAITING for a project like this! Do it do it do it! I wish I could enter. I have several vintage (read: low-budget 70s 80s) saris that should really be turned into something... Ok, so just because I can't enter, doesn't mean I can't make something! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] VA free high res downloads!
If you register and log in at the VA, you can now request high resolution images to be sent to you for acceptable (academic, etc) use. I'd provide more details, but their website is being buggy! I cannot seem to actually register. To register, go to: http://images.vam.ac.uk/indexplus/page/registration.html For usage information on the high res images, go to: http://images.vam.ac.uk/indexplus/page/T%26C+High+Resolution+Images.html Ooohh boy am I ever going to make use if this if I can ever make use of it! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Elizabeth of Valois [was Your dream costume]]
Wow, that really does look like goldwork, in the closeup of the skirt recently posted. Having done a wee bit of that myself, the mind boggles at the amount of time it would take to do that much of it! Though it would take even longer to embroider it in silks. Even though I'm not particularly interested in this time period/style, I did have to fight off a strong temptation to make this dress a year or two ago, because there was a large hunk of fabric for sale on eBay that was almost exactly like what's seen here--except it was pale apple green/salmon instead of gold/salmon. That was the only thing that stopped me from at least buying it and hoarding it until my taste in time periods changed yet again. Still kind of wish I had... the thing was up for sale for months and months. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Your dream costume
Lately, I've had an overwhelming desire to make a 1660s-80s gown. I would modernize it slightly and make it all fluffy and fancy, but pretty much all the changes I can think of making were actually done at some point during that period! Since I no longer get free fabric, though, I must save up for the fluffy stuff. Wah. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Edwardian Straight Front Theory (x-post)
twisting as they follow the corset's curves, and second, vertical boning causes pressure to be distributed horizontally. Wherever that all-important diagonal pressure line crosses vertical boning, the two pressure zones combine, to increase the area that the diagonal pressure line can affect. In other words, instead of a line of pressure the width of a single seam, you now have a line of pressure several inches wide. (Away from that diagonal pressure line, the boning mostly just exists to keep the garment smooth.) Along the same lines as the horizontal pressure distribution of the boning, internal waist bands were also added to many corsets. Stretching from the upper back waist to the lower abdomen, they were still rather diagonal, but much closer to the horizontal; they were along the same general line as the waist band of the garments actually being worn with the straight-front corset. Whereas the earlier exaggerations in form created by the corset style were mostly exaggerated in illustration only: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/rwbt01.jpg corsetmakers soon learned how much could be done with this diagonal pressure line, and the later exaggerations were exaggerations in the actual corseted form: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/8994df8c.jpg . When this exaggeration reached its peak near the end of the decade, the return to straighter lines was founded on the straighter lines of the corset itself: the corsets were once again cut on the old vertical-panel principle. http://www.formfunction.org/temp/corset.jpg Though diagonal lines still made a part of the pattern, they were no longer used to create a diagonal pressure line. You may notice that I've gone this far without really discussing the actual straight-front part itself much. This is because--though a vital part of the corset--it's actually a very SMALL part of the corset. Take a look at this ad: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/CBalaS3.jpg and you'll see, semi-intentionally illustrated, the portion of the front of the corset that is actually straight. That narrow triangle with its top point between the bust, and the base over the abdomen, split in to by the busk? (Looks like and occasionally actually is a flattened spoon busk, as a matter of fact.) Spread the base an inch or so wider, and THAT is the only area of the corset that is actually a straight front! That's the part that should be flat and straight and in no way curvaceous in an Edwardian straight-front corset. Everything else curves. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: applique attachment
One thing I've only made very limited trials with, but have great hopes for when it comes to aligning those pesky guards just right: a thin layer of plain old Elmer's school glue. You know, the sort that washes out of your clothing. As long as the fabric is soakable, it all seems to come out with no staining, and since it takes a while to dry you have time to reposition things. The bond is weak enough that if nothing else, you can just peel it off, add a touch more glue, and put it back in another place. You'd still have to sew the applique down, of course, but it's a nice cheap easy alternative. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] embroidery question
- Original Message - From: Julie [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm looking for a way to keep the edges turned under for hand applique. Maybe try putting the Wonder Under on the right side of the netting before you sew it to the applique? It'd make it a little tough to get the applique pillow flat before applying it, but it would probably also make it easier to fingerpress. -E ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] lacing rings
I get mine from Fire Mountain Gems-- http://www.firemountaingems.com/search.asp?skw=closed+jump I like the 7 or 8mm ones in 20 gauge, but have used ones as small as 5mm 23 gauge with no problems. They're surprisingly strong! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Stuff of interest in Seattle?
It looks like there's a good chance that within the year, I'll be moving to the Seattle area. Is there anything out there of interest to h-cost type folks? -E House, dreading packing and planning to start EARLY this time... ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats
- Original Message - On May 17, 2007, at 4:12 PM, Tori Ruhl wrote: I've heard people talk about making hats out of theatrical buckram. But I didn't think that Buckram, as we know it, existed in the 16th century. If not, then what DID exist as Buckram? What were the internal structure of hats made out of? Along with bokeram and the other things recently mentioned, there's also vellum. For that matter, my local leather store sells something I can't remember the name of that's very hard, about 1/4+ thick, and looks strangely like translucent fiberglass (but is some form of leather). You could CARVE a hat out of that stuff. Melanie, do you have any idea how the felt was stiffened? I have a big bag full of wool dryer lint I've been meaning to experiment with, and an even bigger bag of teeny tiny wool scraps... -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] not Perpignan, but... (stretchy wools)
Definitely not crepe; it's a basketweave, plain and simple. Ok, not entirely simple! =} It was from fashion fabrics, but I'd be surprised if they still have it, sigh. -E House (avoiding FFC on account of how they treated Cathy...) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Looking for 15th century replica frame-openingstyle purse
Lacis has a very large range of them: http://www.lacis.com/catalog/data/ls58.html -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] not Perpignan, but... (stretchy wools)
Not too long ago I chanced on a very interesting piece of wool fabric. It's 100% wool, but due to the way it's made, it has as much natural stretch as a lycra/wool blend! (Yes, I'm sure it's 100% wool.) It's a slightly loose basket weave, but that alone isn't what makes it so stretchy; rather, the stretchiness seems to come from the fact that both warp and weft are VERY tightly twisted. With the slightly loose weave, both warp and weft sort of crimp up a lot more than you usually see, so when you pull on it, the threads straighten out temporarily. The tightness of the spinning keeps the whole thing from shrinking up; the weave stays slightly loose. (If it shrank at all after I washed it, the amount was too small for me to measure.) When pulled, it stretches to about 110%-115% of its original length/width. That may not sound like much, but it's a whole lot when, say, you're making a supportive gown, or a pair of hose. I'm in love with it. I've got about 7 yds of it, and I am afraid to use it, because my hoarding instinct says it must be saved for the exact right project. (It wants to be 2 different styles of supportive undergowns, and I think I can get both out of it, but then it'd be gone and I'd lose/gain 20 lbs and be unable to wear them.) But more importantly, it has completely changed my idea of how much stretch medieval wool fabrics might have had! I've read archaeological reports of worsted textiles made from yarns spun with a high twist before; I am now going to go back and give them a much closer look. Somehow, I doubt that the archaeologists who studied those textiles gave 'em a good stretch... -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] weirdish terminology question
I'm going to spend a while fishing through Google's book search, and since I've already found a surprising amount of results from books that quote wills, inventories, wardrobe accounts, etc, I have a slightly odd request of the list. I'm trying to think of good Ye Olde Englishe key words that will help me find these, like 'velwet' and 'vellat' and 'velvett.' Can anyone help me think of properly spellt English (sticking with that for now) costume terms from say, 1100-1650, that seem likely to result in wardrobe accounts, inventories, wills, etc? -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Bildindex in English
- Original Message - From: Kate M Bunting [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've not used Bildindex myself, but doesn't that character represent double s in German? So if you can substitute ue for u with umlaut, perhaps you can use ss for that one? Ah ha! Yes, that looks like it works--exact same results for schloss and schloß, at least. Thanks! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Bildindex is in English now!--sorta
As a slight help, you don't have to figure out how to make umlauts with your keyboard in order to successfully search. In general, you can replace any umlauted vowel with vowel+e. For example, when searching for Dürer, Duerer will get you to the same set of files. Durer, however, won't. The character ß is more annoying, but can be produced by pressing Num Lock on your keyboard, then holding down Alt as you type 225 on the numerical keypad (usually on the right side of your keyboard, with arrows on some of the numbers). In the same way: ä = Alt 132 Ä = Alt 142 ö = Alt 148 Ö = Alt 153 ü = Alt 129 Ü = Alt 154 Or, do what I usually do, and hunt around whatever page of Bildindex you happen to be on until you see the character you need, then cut paste! Personally, I've gotten used to searching bildindex whilst keeping a window in the background with Google's translation utility: http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en After years of using Bildindex and the like, I now have a bizzarely specific German vocabulary... -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: theatrical vs. historic costuming
- Original Message - Actually, Sharon, none of the costumes were authentic in that film. I'm not sure what you are saying it's a great example of. Personally, I loved the costumes -- they had the FEEL of the historic period, while they were done in all sorts of weird fabrics, etc. I loved that whole Breakfast at Tiffany's outfit, and I know exactly which paintings inspired it! Many of the peasant/tournament audience member extras who were on screen for a brief flash were definitely accuracy-minded reenactors. Not from the right period, from what I remember, but at least accurate for _a_ period. Having never seen Breakfast at Tiffany's, which outfit was that? and which painting? -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Need fabric selection advice
- Original Message - From: MaggiRos [EMAIL PROTECTED] I find myself thinking hmm... Cavalier, or better, Restoration. Ooo. OoooOoo! Perfect! And I've been looking for an excuse to make some c1665 stays, too... -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Need fabric selection advice
I have some lovely heavy silk twill from FFC in a sort of darkdark emerald green, which I got because A) it's heavy silk, and anytime I see heavy silk I must have it, and B) the husband loves that color. But I absolutely cannot figure out what on earth to do with it. For some reason it screams victorian to me, but it's far too floppy for anything that springs to mind in that era. I'm going to hoard it for a few more years until it starts screaming something more reasonable at me. I can't really picture using any of the silk twills I've seen at FFC working for the outer fabric of a structured Tudor-era gown. However, some of the ribbed silks they sell would work very nicely! For example, I got some silk ottoman from them not too long ago: http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/catalog_itemdetail.aspx?ItmID=AA036 and it is perfect for anything structured. I haven't felt samples of their other ottomans, but they should be at least somewhat similar (though the sueded ones might not be quite right for the era): http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/Catalog_items.aspx?Query=silk%20ottoman Unfortunately, in order to find ribbed silks on the site, you have to know the correct term for that specific fabric, and right now I'm drawing a blank other than ottoman; they don't use any of the obvious terms like ribbed or grosgrain. Mostly, you need to order 1/8 yd as a sample in order to find out what a fabric is like, because fabrics with the same name/description/price/appearance can be wildly different. Also unfortunately, this sort of stuff rarely goes on sale! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ottoman silk/silk faille -was need fabric selection advice
- Original Message - From: Saragrace Knauf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do you mean silk faille? I'd never heard of it being called Ottoman silklearn something new everyday! _That's_ what I was trying to think of! Thank you. I think there might be a slight difference, at least as sold by FFC, but that's definitely the general idea. (Faille as I think of it is a bit lighter in weight than what I got.) I'd never heard of it either, until I saw it for sale there--I think I might have actually had to ask on the list here to find out what on earth it was! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] The Tudors other costume shows
Don't get me wrong, I'm not in the least trying to criticize people who do enjoy watching that kind of thing--I'm actually wishing that I COULD enjoy it, like everyone else seems to! I want in on the fun! But I'm the sort of person who has never seen a single soap opera episode and could never, ever watch the movie Beaches unless tied to a chair with my eyelids propped open. I am a guy with boobs, and not one of those sensitive 90s guys, either. I am doomed to only being able to enjoy a costume flick if it also contains pirates, bear-worshipping neanderthals, or garderobe humor. Ok, I'll settle for just plain humor of any sort. Mmm, Bad Movie Night. Maybe I could watch Dangerous Beauty or Somewhere in Time if there were little robot silhouettes at the bottom of the screen... -Elmer House (I'm sure they're wonderful movies! Really! I believe you! I'm going to go watch Monty Python now! Or possibly South Park!) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] The Tudors other costume shows
The Tudors TV show is yet another example of something that makes me wonder, Am I the only one? 19 times out of 20, it doesn't matter how good or how interesting the costumes are in a production; I just can't stand to watch it. I haven't seen more than about 30 seconds of any of the famous costume flicks, like The Lion in Winter, because they just bore the socks off of me. I just cannot block out the contents of a movie well enough to watch it for the costumes. I seem to only be able to watch costume flicks NOT set in the periods I find interesting, like the adaptations of Oscar Wilde plays, or some of the better Jane Austen movies. (I'd walk a marathon for a good Northanger Abbey movie--why don't they make one, already!) If I do find a movie I actually enjoy that's set closer to the eras I find interesting, it's almost never one known for its accuracy--for example, I actually loved A Knight's Tale. Schlock, but such FUN schlock! (Though from what I hear, they at least put some decent effort into researching how jousting really worked, not that I know anything about that.) And yet, of course, so hideously costumed. The Tudors is a great TV example of my conundrum; it's set so very close to my time of interest, with characters whose portraits I have spent years studying, but I don't even enjoy seeing commercials for it, much less feel the least interest in watching the actual show. Whereas Robin Hood, which has to be the most hideously costumed piece of fluff I've watched in quite some time, is a show I can actually stand to watch, studded black leather duster and all. (At least until the overt politics finally get grating enough. It doesn't matter if I agree or disagree; quit beating me over the head with it, already!) Am I the only one?! I'd love to be able to settle down and listen to a nice costume flick whilst handsewing, really I would. Sigh. -E House (keeps forgetting which email address to use with this list, argh!) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] RE: marking embroidery designs
- Original Message - From: Anne Moeller [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was wondering why everyone was so concerned about the markings. Several reasons! First, I can stitch _more_ exactly than I can mark, which means that I may have to choose between a graceful line of embroidery, and covering my marks completely. Second, I generally create my own embroidery designs, and it's a frequent occurence for me to change my mind halfway through about what I want the design to look like. Third, many methods of marking can bleed into the nearby fabric, especially when the embroidered piece is washed, and I generally want my embroidered pieces to be washable. (And fourth, unlike the Victorian era, in my period messy stitching was considered perfectly acceptable!) -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Crayola Erasable Colored Pencils -work great!
I've been using normal (read: cheap) colored pencils to mark dark black fabric for a while, and haven't had any trouble. A normal pencil eraser will erase them, but I can generally just rub real hard with my finger. I've had no problem getting the marks to just wash out, though... of course, that may depend on fiber, and I haven't tried it on too wide a range of fabrics, but it washed out of wool and silk perfectly well! The marks last much longer than a chalk pencil mark would, but they're still not quite durable enough for say, a large detailed embroidery motif. At least, _I_ can't use them that way, since I rarely use a hoop and therefore get my fingers all over the fabric, wearing off the marks. If I see the erasable ones for sale, I'll probably try them, though. =} -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] marking embroidery designs (was: Crayola Erasable Colored Pencils)
For all but black fabric, I use thin-line water-soluble ink pens. For really fine lines or when the ink just keeps bleeding, I use a soft graphite pencil; it washes out just fine. For black fabrics, I haven't found anything I'm really happy with yet, but for my next project (beading rather than embroidery, but same problem) I plan to try heavy duty solvy--it's a sort of an interfacing that dissolves in water, but is thick/durable enough to mark on with pen. (Made by Sulky.) I'll draw the design on that, then bead through it into the fabric, then dunk dry it. Hope it goes well! Other thinks I've tried on black fabric are putting normal iron-on interfacing on the back, with the design already drawn on, and then just embroidering from the back side. It works well for simple stuff/stitches, but it can get tedious really quickly. I've also gone the back interfacing route, but instead of embroidering from the back, basted the outlines of the design and then removed the interfacing before embroidering. It works well enough, but I haven't been able to get as much detail in the basted design as I'd like. For simple or narrow designs, a colored pencil works well for me. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Help finding an article?
- Original Message - From: Carmen Beaudry [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am trying to find a copy of Janet Arnold's copy of: Elizagethan and Jacobean Smocks and Shirts that is in Waffen-und Kostumkunde Pt. 2 (1973) pp. 109-124. I'd be very interested in that, too! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] CostumeCon and projects
I'm planning to go to CostumeCon, too. It'll be my first one, and I plan to make a few things to wear there, but I'm still trying to figure out what I should make for it (other than my one Impressive Gown, and that piratish coat I've been meaning to make all this past year but never got around to even starting). I'm planning to attend the whole weekend, since Yay! It's local for me, and Boo, I doubt I'll make it to another one anytime soon as I don't travel well lately. I'd say let's all figure out a way to meet up while we're there, but I expect we'll all be meeting in Robin's classes, anyway! Here's what I'm planning to make for my Impressive Gown (yes, it must be capitalized, as I've been planning it for years now): http://www.formfunction.org/temp/mi03977f11a.jpg Being saintswear, though, it's a bit hard to figure out a way to engineer it as an actual outfit, but not trying to use period construction techniques should help a lot. I'd planned to bead the breastband, but since all I've done so far is finally pick out all the fabrics (copper/eggplant dupioni, purple/black taffeta, orange rayon dupioni overlayed with gold/purple silk organza, magenta sari 'silk') that'll be involved, it doesn't look like that's going to happen by March. I have yet to figure out what I'm going to do for headwear, either, sigh... -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1450 - pregnant?
In the mid late 15thC, supportive gowns often don't close up all the way. A few of the many examples: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/15thDress1.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/memling38.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/minidance.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/valeriusmaximus.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1484flem.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1489urs04det.jpg This is a VERY practical refinement, and supports (sorry) the theory of a supportive style. As those who've worn supportive undergowns are no doubt aware, due to body heat and other factors a supportive gown gets a bit looser--and supports less--as the day progresses. A front closure with an intentional gap allows for adjustment. Your dress loosens up a bit, you cinch yourself in further. You eat a big meal, you loosen your laces. You waking feeling a bit bloated and swollen, you leave it loose over the belly and the bust. It is a wonderful thing. The fit of the supportive gown/GFD in the mid late 15thC is different than in the 14thC early 15thC. The busk effect of Robin's straight-front GFD style is no longer necessary to get the right look; the popular silhouette is one where the bust is very rounded, and sticks out rather than being trussed up: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1475-80%2520Valerius%2520Maximus.jpg This silhouette involves much curvier seams, and sometimes makes use of the side-front seam: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1453-5.jpg A similar fit can be obtained without side-front seams through the use of a curved-front seam, which lends itself beautifully to being laced only partly shut. Incidentally, this style of dress: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/31tlove.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/17rein21.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp/RdelaRbrugesCropped.jpg is a late 15thC variation of the slightly-open-front style, and though often dismissed as medievaloid, is actually seen quite often in paintings/illuminations. -E House (quote at will) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1450 - pregnant?
- Original Message - From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Some of the examples Elena showed appear to be fitted overgowns, not supportive undergowns that would be worn over a chemise and potentially under a more formal overdress. Yup! As Carol also notes, some of Elena's images are in fact of Mary Magdalen or other saints, and so can't be used to determine general usage outside of Magdalen (or saint) figures. Absolutely. I included them for two reasons: first, since the painting in question is of a saint, paintings of other saints are valid for comparison, and second, the paintings of saints generally show better detail! http://www.formfunction.org/temp/minidance.jpg If it's the one I'm thinking of, it's a realistic example of the underdress worn informally. Elena, I'm remembering this as part of a group of women dancing; the full version is very nice, IIRC. That's the one. I thought I had a better image of it in my computer files, but this is all I could find--I think I may have to buy myself a scanner for my birthday. http://www.formfunction.org/temp/valeriusmaximus.jpg I don't think these dresses were necessarily meant to lace up closed, but they're not the wide-open type of overdress that was meant to stay arranged in that formal spread-out look, either. I love this one -- looks very realistic and gives us a nice view of indoor/casual use of the short-sleeved underdress alone, with and without add-on sleeves, with the bonus that one of the wearers is older. Elena, is this ms available online? It is, but at a website that is both wonderful and frustrating: http://www.kb.nl The frustrating part is that the database is wonky, and often when you click on a thumbnail, you won't get directed to an enlargement. I emailed them a year or two ago about it, and the response boiled down to: our database is wonky. Try coming back in a month or two, and maybe the wonkyness will have moved on to a different file. To add to the frustration, the link I have directly to their search engine isn't working, and I can't find my way to it from the above link. Presumably they fixed the wonkiness, and fixed my link out of existance at the same time. I'll try to figure out how to get back to it, and post the link if I succeed. http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1489urs04det.jpg No idea where this is from. The laced lady looks realistic. Pay no attention to the lady in the fur-bodiced surcote, who is probably dressed to indicate she is a queen or duchess, possibly historical (but Elena, I'd love a cite on this one so I could find out for sure which). It's yet another Memling, this time from the St. Ursula Shrine. (I'd LOVE to find better detailed pictures than what I have from www.wga.hu , as there are a ton of very interesting rarely seen styles. And tons of back side views.) This means that, technically speaking, the gown falls under the category of saints' wear, as the laced lady is one of the 11,000 virgins. Also from Elena's list: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1475-80ValeriusMaximus.jpg Realistic. Boy, I'd love to see more of this ms. From the same non-site as above. I think the first image is from an earlier (1460s sticks in my head) copy of the Valerius Maximus text, but they may be from the same manuscript. There's enough copies of the manuscript from right around the same time that it's not too easy to pin them down--I've got images from a 1462 version and a 1475 version that are stylistically different enough from both of these images that I'm pretty sure that all four are from different manuscripts, or at least different illuminators. Without access to that website, I can only give you a bit more in the way of citation on the two that it probably _isn't_ from, but that's not much help! valerius maximus 1462 france hague kb 71 d 42 valerius maximus c1475 france hague kb 66 b 13 -E House, off to Christmas Eve service ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1450 - pregnant?
- Original Message - From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] The shrine is well-reproduced in various books on Flemish painting; you can come over to my house and check out my collection if you like, as I have a near life-sized image of each panel in my museum catalog from the Memling Museum in Bruges, and probably some photos as well. I'll be taking you up on that offer, one of these days... there's also a few other things I've been feverishly searching for recently. You don't happen to have a copy of the Grandes Heures d' Anne de Bretagne, do you? There's a couple of wonderful back views in that, with seams. I'm also dying for a really high resolution view of Gerard David's Marriage at Cana; the woman in red facing away from us right near the center of the painting also seems to have some interesting seams, but I can't quite get a good enough view. However, beware of how you use these interesting and rarely seen styles, as Memling made them deliberately fantastical -- these are (1) historic (2) royal (3) foreign (4) virgin martyrs. I use a few of the images from the Ursula shrine and a few other Flemish Ursula-legend paintings in some of my lectures to show exactly how far beyond realism the artists of this period would go. Yes, there are elements of real dresses in here, but they're combined in bizarre ways. Use with caution. I shall--there are a decent number of styles shown that I can at least match up to secular depictions, and a few that are so basic and undecorated that I feel reasonably safe in using them, for example, as a good gauge of what the back neckline should look like. Again, though, they mostly feed into my obsession with back views! But yep, it's tainted. -E House, off to Christmas Eve service We don't do Christmas here (OK, my husband the Greek Orthodox cantor does, he's leaving shortly to sing the evening service, but the rest of us are just hanging out). A boring day for noncelebrants, and my mailing lists are of course quiet too, leaving me to post into the void... Merry kids-are-off-from-school-for-several-days Day! We actually don't celebrate it much, either; the husband's birthday happens to fall on Christmas, so his family dealt with it by not celebrating either Christmas or birthdays much. It's so much easier that way that we've kept up the tradition! =} -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] post- Christmas gift exchange
Hee! That's a great idea. I could certainly come up with several things to submit, though none from this Christmas. (Any quilters out there? I've got quilting cottons out the wazoo!) It might work best if there's absolutely NO secrecy about the items, though =} -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] OT--Fashion Fabrics now ships int'l
Sorry for the commercial crassness... I know the matter has been discussed here, though, and I'm very excited that the policy has now changed! I just got official permission from the owner to announce that Fashion Fabrics Club will now ship to Canada and western Europe (yay!). The website isn't set up for it yet--and with the delays we've had, it'll be a while--but if you call in an order you'll be able to request it. If the person who takes your order isn't aware of this, have them ask the owner, Tom. Australia/NZ wasn't mentioned, but it's worth asking about. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] H-Cost: Fwd: New Google Patent Search
Love it! Be sure to check the advanced search option--you can search by date range as well. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Shoulder-strap-less Tudors?
- Original Message - From: Elizabeth Walpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://photos.ladybrooke.com/sca/gowns/velvetgown/gettingstarted.htm is a strapless Tudor gown, it is not an uncommon theory on Tudor construction her finished product does look good except for the bumroll under the skirt which just doesn't fit with the smooth Tudor look. Thank you! That's the site I was thinking of. I'm planning to make this: http://www.nationalgalleries.org/collections/artist_search.php?objectId=4764 and am flirting with the idea of a strapless design. I have plenty of evidence of gowns from this era with shoulder straps, with a much lower incidence of gowns that look strapless, but this one definitely falls into the strapless camp. If only all my lovely back-view shots weren't of the strapped version (Or, maybe the strapless versions look strapped from behind! Hrm.) -E Ooo! lots of pleating! House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Mixing fibers (was: Re: striped skirt)
I couldn't quote you chapter and verse at the moment, but I've run across quite a few regulations/laws about mixing fibers fiber content. From what I can remember, they all boiled down to either quality control, or truth in advertising, and a lot of them were pushed by whichever guild applied. The only source I can think of for examples at the moment is Mizzoui's cotton book, which I don't have, or possibly textiler hausrat, which ditto. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Silk Gazar?
I have a feeling it's going to depend on who's selling it; the silk gazar being sold by Fashion Fabrics Club, for example, doesn't really seem to match perfectly the descriptions I've read; it's more like what I'd expect from satin-backed organza (which I've actually never handled). Here's what I posted last time about my experience with it: --- Picture a heavy organza that's shiny/satiny on one side, at least when purchased from FFC. I got some of their gazar, and though it was absolutely GORGEOUS, it was also a nightmare to sew. If I hadn't been making the dress for a client who loved the fabric, I would have thrown it out. Or better yet, had a bonfire. It catches and runs and is so slippery you think you're going insane, and the dye job doesn't quite go all the way through--if the fabric gets creased you can iron it out, but you'll have a pale line where the crease was. But it is gorgeous. --- [search the archives around 11/13 for the topic 'Fabric Question' for more] I should add that it has a very papery texture. In the future, I'd consider using it as a utility fabric for interlining/stiffening of a small area, but never again shall I try to use it as a fashion fabric layer for an entire garment. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Silk Gazar?
- Original Message - From: Saragrace Knauf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Can any of you tell me how this compares to an Organza? I've never had a chance to handle it. It's heavier and (at least what I've handled) more slippery. Picture satin-backed organza. I think there were some posts about it on here a few months back--you might want to see if you can find it in the archives. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Anglo-Saxon clothing book
Not my era, but Amazon just sent me this and it sounded like it might pique someone's interest: --- We've noticed that customers who have expressed interest in Knives and Scabbards (Medieval Finds from Excavations in London) by J. Cowgill have also ordered Cloth And Clothing in Early Anglo-Saxon England, AD 450-700 (CBA Research Reports) by Penelope Rogers. For this reason, you might like to know that Penelope Rogers's Cloth And Clothing in Early Anglo-Saxon England, AD 450-700 (CBA Research Reports) will be released on December 20, 2006. Cloth And Clothing in Early Anglo-Saxon England, AD 450-700 (CBA Research Reports) (Paperback) by Penelope Rogers Paperback: 250 pages Publisher: Council for British Archaeology (December 20, 2006) Language: English ISBN: 1902771540 -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] corset boning
What style of Victorian corset do you plan to make? Do you have a pattern/image picked out? How regularly do you plan to wear the corset--will it be a daily thing, on the weekends, a few times a year, or only once? -E House PS-- you might want to join http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Historical_Corsets ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: striped skirt
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are stripes ever found anywhere outside of Italy? If you want to crossdress, there are plenty of 15th early 16thC Franco-Flemish German males wearing stripes! Especially striped hosen, which is an interesting effect. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] corset boning
Longer post w/pics later tonight cos I'm about to go run errands, but in the late victorian/edwardian era there are men's corsets--you might want to base the one you make on them, at least in terms of design construction, if not shape. (They were generally marketed towards older military men, who wanted to look sharp in their uniforms despite a saggy middle!) It sounds like metal boning would fit the bill, but so would plastic. There are several types of plastic ties available at a low cost at Home Depot Lowes, and one of them is thin narrow--not at all bulky. You have to use quite a lot more, but the end result is incredibly comfortable (almost like a corded corset). The drawback is that plastic boning does a much better job of molding itself to the body, which in this case is not at all the goal! Also, there's no reason that you can't combine the two. A combination of steel boning and whalebone is very common in corsets of the era. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] striped skirt
- Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.renaissancewoman.net/realmofvenus/wardrobe/Dance1565.jpg You know, it looks to me like the dress in question has a sheer overlay on the skirt--look at the bottom there. What's more, it kind of looks like the stripe might be in the overlay itself: a sheer purple and white stripe overlaying a gold-colored skirt. Or, a gold-colored skirt with a purple overlay that's pleated in such a way that where it folds over, you get several layers of the sheer purple at regular intervals and therefore the effect of a stripe. (Not that I don't think they used stripes, as stripes are pretty easy to find elsewhere.) Is it just me, or does anyone else see that? -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Madame de Canaples by Jean Clouet--need better image
Does anyone have a larger/higher resolution version of this painting? http://nationalgalleries.org/collections/artist_search.php?objectId=4764 I'm especially interested in the sleeves, but also the neckline and the headwear. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Madame de Canaples by Jean Clouet--need better image
Ignore this--for some reason this message took a day or two to come through to the list, and I've already gotten a great image from an x-post! -E ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Madame de Canaples by Jean Clouet--need better image
- Original Message - From: Sue Clemenger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Now, that is one *seriously* cool portrait, and not one I've seen before! Those undersleeves *rock!* I like the hint of an undergown in the corners of her neckline See, this is why I love this particular stretch of time so much--they come up with so many weird variations, before settling on the 'Tudor' style... -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] question on velvets
I see linen velvet pretty regularly on ebay--it looks quite lovely. Prices range from $5/yd to more like $50 or $100, with the heavily striated stuff that historical people like less going for more. As a generality, expect to pay ~$15-$25/yd if you're willing to wait a few months whilst trolling. I just did a quick search and got 27 hits, ~20 of which were for fabric. Mind you, some of the linen velvets contain very little actual linen--apparently it's like 'silk velvet'--so it's worth checking, though the sellers often just don't know. I have seen some in the past that at least claimed to be 100%. I've been meaning to get some for a while now, but always seem to spend the money elsewhere first--if you get some, let us know what you think of it! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Shopping conundrum
Are you looking for 100% silk, or will man-made fibers/blends do? -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Shopping conundrum
Here are a few places that have it in poly: http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/catalog_itemdetail.aspx?ItmID=X065 http://dollarfabric.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGYCategory_Code=3575 http://www.dazian.com/cgi-bin/page.pl?action=show_stylestyle_id=321group_id=161cat_id=44 -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] silk prices in USA
- Original Message - From: Elizabeth Walpole [EMAIL PROTECTED] But they don't ship overseas so it's not much help to people outside the USA. Drat. I keep forgetting that they changed their policy. I just called in to double check. At some point, I might consider setting myself up as a semi-official forwarding agent--I'll discuss it with the boss. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Cotton Satin Corset 1780
Drat. I don't have the Kyoto book--is there an image of this corset anywhere online? -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] silk prices in USA
Ahh... $14 is indeed a good price, as long as the quality is good. I get mine here: http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/Catalog_items.aspx?Query=taffeta+silk but then, of course, I work for them. It's generally $11/yd there, but the quality is unfortunately hit or miss; you can find some absolutely great taffetas, but right next to them, you'll find lightweight slubby ones that just aren't that useful. At the moment, they don't have too many iridescents, but they have some nice-looking faille taffetas. Usually, I'd suggest ordering 1/8 yd pieces of the fabrics you're considering first, but given the shipping time involved, I'll suggest calling in your order, explaining your situation to whoever you talk to (ask for Cathy) and ask for suggestions from her; she's used to working with people like us! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] organ/pipe pleats
A feature common to a lot of the dresses in my era/area is a row of pleats falling from the waist at the back (but not the front or sides). I've been using rolled pleats taken in a rectangular piece of fabric for this, and they do a generally good jpb of giving the right look. But I've become annoyed with them lately--when the pleat moves from side to side, it gets these unappealing horizontal wrinkles, which really isn't the look I'm going for. Another problem is that the line where the pleats meet the waist seam is basically straight, whereas most images show rounded humps. (I'm too lazy right now to upload an appropriate picture, so take a look at this for a general idea of what I'm talking about; her sash mostly obscures the waistline at the back, but you can still get a hint of what the area where the pleats meet the waist seam looks like: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/backsketch.jpg ) Right now, I'm in the middle of making a version of this, my first intentionally English dress ever: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/english.jpg (though I'm going to put off making that heawear--oy) (I won't go into detail about why I'm pretty sure that the back of this has the back pleats as seen in the first link; suffice it to say that I feel reasonably confident based on other paintings.) Anyway, I went ahead with my normal rolled-pleats version, but the horizontal wrinkle problem was even worse than usual, so I have just officially gotten fed up and decided to try something new. I'm thinking of using organ/pipe pleats instead, taken in a piece of fabric that's closer to a semi-circle. (Well, several put together, probably.) I'm hoping that will fix the problem of wrinkling, and give the big-fat-rolls-with-curved-tops look; the semi-circle will mean that I'll still have a hefty amount of hem, as shown in most images. I've never played with this style of pleat before, though. Has anyone on the list messed about with it much? I'm thinking I may want to shape the edges of the roll (picture a cylinder cut off at an angle) rather than just stick it on there at a 90 degree angle, but I'm not sure if it's worth the bother. Also, I definitely plan to stuff each pleat, but I have yet to figure out what stuffing to use. A roll of fulled wool? Wadding of scrap fabric? Each roll should be at least 1 in diameter, so we're talking about some significant stuffing. I'm also worried about avoiding a ridge where the stuffing ends; I want the skirt to fall naturally to the ground, rather than going out while over the stuffing, but straight down where the stuffing ends. (Sigh--I'd already stitched the rolled pleats in place and called it done; sooo much work I'm making for myself now! And people wonder why I rarely get things 100% finished At least this one has a must-be-wearable-by date, which may help.) -E House PS--I'll be using this dress to test my theory on the purpose of those white bands. I _think_ I've got it, or at least a good possibility, but I won't know until the pleats are settled! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Casanova on PBS, rambling OTwards
- Original Message - From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yeah, I wish I had heard about it before it aired. I don't even channel flip anymore, there's so much bad TV out there. Ugh yeah, no kidding. Though I have managed to find 3 tv shows that I like, which is quite an improvement from the previous none. I think that's part two. Wish they would rerun part one sometime during the week. Grumph. Oh well, it's better than nothing! At least I know to keep an eye out for it now. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Casanova on PBS
Drat. As I was flipping though the tv guide, I saw this, and almost decided to watch it, but found something else. I assumed it would be... something entirely different from what it apparently was. Honestly and no offense intended, a lot of the costume flicks that my fellow costumiers like just plain bore the crap out of me. Here's hoping that they or bbc america show it again sometime! (Oooh, look, Dr. Who!) -E House PS--Ah ha! They're showing it again on the 15th. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Early 1800's underpinnings and accessories questons.
- Original Message - From: Saragrace Knauf [EMAIL PROTECTED] snikp But they have me doing some other very time consuming things for the Rijksmuseum Golden Age Exhibitthose will probably take precedence. The Rijksmuseum has some of my favorite paintings! Can you tell me any more about this: when, where, what? The husband and I hope that this winter, we'll finally take our long-planned wander-around-the-west trip, and if there's something I can see on the way I'd be delighted. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] 1520s french headwear--fresh eyes needed
I'm working on a replica of the headress worn by Princess Charlotte in this Clouet painting (1522): http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1522clouet-charlotte-de-fra.jpg After much experimentation, I've come up with a pattern I'm reasonably happy with, but I just cannot make up my mind on a few points. If you'll look at this closeup: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/1522clouet-charlotte-detail.jpg you should be able to see each of them. Issue 1: Those slashes The closeup shows each slash with a sort of outline around it, as though each slash were bound with strips of the same fabric the hat's made of, sort of like a bound buttonhole. It seems to me faintly unlikely that they'd go to this much trouble, and I certainly don't want to, but that's the only way I can think of to get that same exact look. The only other options that come to mind are either a) just slash , and let it fray if it will--not too terrible an option, since the luscious heavy silk sateen I have for this is not at all prone to raveling drooldroolbragbrag--or, b) fold back a teeny hem for each slash, and stitch them into place. Ideas? Suggestions? Issue 2: What should the back look like? If you look at the bottom diagonal slash of the bag-like portion, on the other side of the circumference seam it looks a bit like there's a slash on the back that mirrors it. Does anyone else see it? I'm thinking I may just mirror those diagonal slashes around the edge of the back, and leave the center of the back plain, or perhaps decorate the center with pearls. (Yes, I have a ton of glass pearls for the project. This will be one heavy bit of headwear!) I'd love any clever suggestions, though, as I haven't found any great backview shots of this style of headress yet. Issue 3: that blackish semi-circle at the nape of the neck This looks almost like a painter's mistake, or as though the paint has started to flake off to reveal a previous version, or some wierd aborted restoration attempt, or I don't know what; whatever it is, my instinct is that it's not really a part of the headwear. If it were a part of the headwear, the only things I can think of would be a) a poor rendering of the bag's interior, seen in shadow (but I give Clouet way more credit than that!) or b) a netting of some sort. Any ideas as to what on earth it could be? Anyone know more about the history of this painting than I do (ie, more than nothing)? -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1520s french headwear--fresh eyes needed
- Original Message - From: Linda Rice [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... which looks a lot like a representation of netting. It would make sense for a woman with a lot of hair to put it up in a sturdy net, then cover it with the fashionable outer bag that we see here. There's definitely some evidence for this idea: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/ukmWomanProfile1518StHcat156.jpg , among others. I can't recall seeing any pink netted caps, but it certainly doesn't seem impossible to me! I am doing the gathers at the nape of the neck; after trying all sorts of shaped pieces, the best result I got was an oval with a straight strip sewn to the edge, and about 4 inches of gathering at the bottom. It even stays on without pins! I extended the strip into a curvy line over the temples and top of the head (sorry, hard to describe) and then added on (or will add on) a separate stiffened piece for the whatchamadoohickey, lappety type piece with the pearled edges. -E House (PS--thanks, Suzi; I've got that site bookmarked, but I've got pretty much ALL the other sites bookmarked too, so I can never find one when I need it!) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] book: Dress at the Court of King Henry VIII
- Original Message - From: Beth and Bob Matney [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dress at the Court of King Henry VIII by Maria Hayward. Maney Pub. (2006). Clothbound with full colour dustjacket, ca 384 pages with ca 150 bw and 30 colour illustrations. ISBN 1 904350 70 4. http://www.maney.co.uk/search?fwaction=showfwid=649 Any idea how much the book will cost? I'd like to put my name on the reserve list, but I don't want to feel obligated to buy a $200 book! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] wheel farthingale yeat another time.
- Original Message - 1617 Else (mincing madams) why do we (alas!) Pine at your Pencill and conspiring Glasse? Your Curles, Purles, Perriwigs, your Whale bone wheels? That shelter all defects from head to heeles. Henry Fitz - Jeoffery, Satyres and Satyrical Epigrams. The 'head to heeles' part does suggest a farthingale to me, I must say, but as others have suggested, the farthingale seems like it would be, at the least, less than fashionable in 1617 Given the nature of the book, it's perfectly possible that the verse being quoted is not originally from 1617, though. After a quick look to see when a periwig would have been worn, I was surprised to find the word's origin in the 1520s, and less surprised that wigs were popular during Elizabeth's reign. And to be unintentionally coarse, wouldn't a farthingale collapsed on the floor look like a wheel? On the other side of the argument, though, what about that drawing seen in Waugh's CC, of the dancers wearing wheels around their waist? Or would you say those are for dancers only? -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Costumes/fashion history classes in college
It sounds like you have a great teaching approach, Penny. Though it's very different, it reminds me of the way my favorite history professor, Mr. Butler, gave tests. (Mind you, he didn't start being my favorite until the day AFTER I was done with his classes!) On test day, we were to come in, sit down, and spend the whole time writing everything we knew about what he'd taught since the last test. That's it--just tell him what you know about the subject, and if you know something he didn't teach, all the better. If you left before time was up, you were an absolute idiot. Annoying at the time; brilliant in hindsight. This is the professor who came up with the idea of Tales from the Crypt, where each student in the class chose or was assigned a headstone from the local, reportedly haunted historic cemetary; they researched that person's life, then dressed up as them, stood by their headstone, and gave a 5-10 minute 1st person presentation to a regional audience on Halloween. (I was Nurse Canant, the mysterious CW nurse buried in the confederate soldier section. There was much fake blood and ham acting by a friend in my presentation.) Really, you had to either love this guy, or hate him! (For those of you who were teenagers in the 90s, several members of Blind Melon were dedicated Butler Boys, which gave me a distaste for their music until I suddenly discovered that _I_ was a Butler Boy as well.) -E Nostalgia House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] cataloging the #$%#^ growing pile O patterns soIdon'tbuy them more than once...
- Original Message - From: Susan Data-Samtak [EMAIL PROTECTED] How about putting a photo of the finished garment in the front of the zip lock bag to help you see what you are looking for? Would that speed the process? Good idea, though I use the digital camera for everything, so I'd have to print it out on my black white printer... should work anyway, though! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] iridescent fabric/weaving ( mind over matter)
I had one of those neat synchronicity moments recently: I thought to myself, Huh! I bet you could make an iridescent with more than just 2 colors. Why don't they? and the next day, I picked up a fabric order that included some iridescent silk taffeta, which to my surprised delight was a _3_ color iridescent. It looked taupe, but was actually pink and green weft on black warp. Very cool! Anyway, the whole thing has gotten me wondering: how practical is it to make 3+ color iridescents? Are they as uncommon as I think? Are there any weavers on here who can expound on them? -E House (would commit minor mayhem for a freakin' copper/purple or copper/teal taffeta, or best of all, a copper/teal/purple!) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Basic medieval costume sources
- Original Message - From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ooops, missed one, here's your basic tunics for children, in a nativity pattern: http://www.mccallpattern.com/item/M2340.htm?tab=costumespage=6 McCall's patterns will be on sale at Hancock fabric store chains this Sept 14-17, for 99 cents. I was about to suggest something like that--I helped sew up some angel costumes for our church's Christmas play from either this or a similar pattern, and it was a tunic, plain and simple. I finished the seams so it took longer than 2 hours for each, but still, very easy pattern (the person who started the project had zero sewing experience). -E House PS--there's a chance it was Simplicity 4797, though I remember more of a rectangle-based cut. I'll see if I can find out which one we used, but I doubt it. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Basic medieval costume sources
Speaking of cost, I'd bet that most of the parents don't have access to sewing machines. Since stores are already being stocked for halloween, it might be worth going to a local walmart or target and browsing through the selection--that way, you can suggest costumes, and give the students ideas for how to make them look sort of semi medieval. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] metalic organza, for a pleated frill
I haven't ordered the metallic organza from any of the places you've talked about, but have a couple of comments. First, at FFC we got some metallic silk organza, and had some _rust_ problems with it, so my instinct tells me that a copper metallic content would be a big plus. (Ok, maybe you'll get verdigris problems, but I kind of doubt it.) Second, for the pleated edging on my not-yet-finished headwear, I wound up using some wired-edge metallic gold ribbon from walmart, with the wire pulled out. This left me with a nice clean edge on the frill, with much less bother. (Not the woven foil-looking type, but the woven wire that looks like metallic organza but coarser.) Since the frill from my era is generally much wider than the later 16thC stuff, I used the ~1.5 width, and it worked well, though I wound up having to finger-press the pleats into place. The silk/metallic would probably look better, but since I honestly have no idea what they used (does anyone here know? I do early 16thC, but I expect the material used would be the same as mid/late 16thC) I don't know which choice looks more authentic. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hourly Wages
After keeping meticulous records of how long a very basic-looking (but actually rather fiddly to sew) 15thC dress took me to make, I decided that I could either a) make about $0.50/hr but actually sell things, b)charge what it was actually worth and wait years for that special customer who was actually willing to pay for it, or c) lower my standards drastically. I decided to opt for d) make things to fit me, offer them on eBay if I feel like it, and just keep 'em if they don't sell, along with a healthy dose of e) use my other skills to make a very nice hourly rate indeed, thank you very much. In costuming, the money really does seem to be in easily quickly made accessories, and that's just not particularly interesting to me. (Though I like the fiddly, detailed accessories, as my current project list shows.) Actually, due to a lack of quick easy accessories, I'm struggling right now to find a single decent outfit to wear to my 2nd ever (!) SCA event (really not a joiner). It turns out that chemises, shoes, hosen, headwear, pouches, etcetcetc really do become necessary if you want to leave the sewing room. Who'da thunk it? -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] GFD and cleavage
Though the lie-down-to-fit method works beautifully for full or firm busts, especially on average-to-large sizes, there's another technique that seems to work well for smaller (or in my case, NOT firm) busts. Instead of laying down for the final fitting around the bust, have the person you're fitting lean over so that their ribcage is parallel to the ground. The bust will point straight down. This pose will make it possible to get a much tighter underbust lower bust fit than lying down, which is absolutely essential for small or not-firm busts. However, this technique will result in a high bust, so it may not be the solution for this particular situation! Given the time period, you have another option that you may not have considered. A good number of illustrations of the time show women wearing supportive gowns that lace up the front, but don't actually lace all the way shut; there's a gap between ~1.5 and ~5 inches. The wider gaps do have the effect of pushing the breasts together, and at least on me, it produces rather dramatic cleavage, unlike my other up-but-not-together supportive dresses, all of which lace fully shut. (It also has the advantage of being adjustable for someone with a yo-yo dieting problem!) When worn under a V-necked dress, the laced-up gap would be concealed with a piece; a decorated piece would give the exact same look as in the Elizabeth Woodville painting. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] OT: civil war experts
For those of you involved in civil war costuming, I have a slightly odd request. Do you know any historians, professional or amateur, who know everything about Shiloh and events around the same time area? See, for the past 15 years, I've had this very frustrating, completely impossible research project that I've been picking up every few years, and now that the internet has become such a useful research tool, I'm going to try to take it up again. Pardon me if my memory is fuzzy on the details, since it's been a while and I haven't looked back through my info. Anyway, in Friendship Cemetary, in Columbus, MS, there is a mysterious grave: it's among the CSA soldiers' grave, but is labeled only Nurse Canant, CSA. To the knowledge of the history professor who assigned me this research project in the first place (the college-two-years-early boarding school I went to did a Tales from the Crypt event every year), no other woman was officially buried as though she were a soldier (not taking into account crossdressers) in any CSA graveyard. Obviously, there's an interesting story in there somewhere, but what on earth did she do to get that honor, and why didn't they know anything else about her? I researched her as best I could with local resources, and discovered that she would most likely have died in the battle of Shiloh, but was unable to find any Canants or Cannants in the area, or anything else of real use in solving the mystery. Hopefully some of you can understand why I can't let this go! A few years back, I did the rounds of the geneaology websites, with no luck, but I'm not giving up yet. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] OT: civil war experts
- Original Message - From: zelda crusher [EMAIL PROTECTED] At the risk of being obvious, are you sure that Nurse Canant was a female? I'm not 100% positive, but the person in the grave is recorded as being female in the cemetary's records. (Accordingly to out-of-date memory, mind you.) -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] (Straight front) corset - fitting
Make up a fitting corset out of inexpensive but heavy non-stretch fabric. (You may want to mine the $1/yd table at walmart, or your local equivalent.) For fitting purposes, you only need one bone per side at the front, side, and back; front-side and back-side bones can be added to combat wrinkles on larger figures. Since the fit of the busk pocket at front and the lacing strips in the rear won't change, go ahead and make those with your real corset fabric, and baste them to the fitting corset. Then, each element of the fitting corset will be useful for the real corset: the fitting corset itself will become the pattern, and the busk and laces sections will go into the real corset. If you make corsets often, you may want to make and save a re-useable busk and laces set. Sew the fitting corset by machine; use a long stitch length, and a tension loose enough that it will be relatively easy to pick out the stitches, but use a strong thread (such as hand quilting thread). To simulate the fit of a garment with finished seams, clip all seam allowances at the curves, then push the seam allowances to one side and topstitch. This sort of construction won't be up to long term use, but it will definitely be enough for the fitting process. While you have the fitting corset on, you might want to take the opportunity to mark where the bones should go. (Only do this after you are satisfied with the fit of the corset!) Even with the few bones you've put into the fitting corset, you'll probably find that they're not in quite the right spot; you can tell this if it feels like the bones twist slightly, rather than laying flat along your body. This is especially problematic with the side-front bones of a straight-front! To mark where the bones should go, get a roll of tape about 3/4 to 1 wide. The wideness of the tape helps avoid errors; if you can get something that wide to lay flat, then the much narrower bone channels certainly will. Cut a piece of tape long enough for a bone channel, and while wearing the corset, lay it where you think the bone channel should be. I find it helps to affix the tape first at the waist, then smooth it up and down; it gives you the best control of where the channel will wind up. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] (Straight front) corset - fitting
- Original Message - From: Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Good Lord, how complicated!! I make up a corset, in the fabric I intend to use, from a customer's measurements, seam the centre front instead of using a busk, but eyelet the back in the normal way. I fit with the seams on the outside, with plenty of seam allowance. But then I have been doing it for 25 years. It sounds more complicated than it is, and is only necessary for the fiddly corsets, like straightfronts. With the extremely narrow pieces involved in the straight front, and the importance of having the exact right curve in those narrow pieces, you'll definitely need to test it out first. Otherwise, you'll find yourself needing seam allowances several times wider than the pattern piece itself! Picture a curved piece that's about an inch wide, and the same piece with a slightly sharper curve. Lay one on top of the other, and the ends don't match up at ALL. Granted, I've only been making straight fronts for about a decade, but believe me, it's enough time to learn this lesson. =} For corsets with less complicated seaming, such as the Elizabethans or the Victorians, a fitting corset is rarely necessary. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Straight front corset
The rude comment part referred to my criticism of corset patterns developed from a pattern block as seen in Waisted Efforts--unless someone with a great deal of skill alters the pattern, the result is almost always all wrong. As to extra padding, the Edwardians came up with an amazing range of garments and products to generate the right shape, from the inflatable bust pad to heavily boned bust forms and beyond. Examples: http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/straightfrontcorsets/photos/browse/92a0 -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] straight front corset
I learned through lots and lots of trial and error, and staring at extant corsets and ads, magazines, etc until my eyes bled. For years. I don't think you can really come up with a formula for drafting them, and that's not how I do it, anyway. You get to know the shape the pattern pieces should be, and how that shape changes when the hips are larger or smaller, when the waist is high or low, and so on. I look at the measurements, build a mental picture of the person's figure, and then just ... adjust. Kinda but not exactly like those scary tailors who can take 2 measurements and then make you a suit that fits like a glove. (If only I could do it with other garments.) It's been a long time since I glanced through the waisted efforts book, so I won't really give a critique of it, but I'll say this: you do not fit a corset to the wearer's skin. A corset reshapes, rather than matching, the figure; therefore, you should instead fit the corset to the parts of the wearer that are NOT reshapeable. In other words, you fit the muscle and the bone, and let the fat fall where it may. I won't categorically reject the possibility of drafting a well-fitting corset from a pattern block, but I will dogmatically state that it's impossible unless you stop looking at it as being like any other garment. The results I see from those who use the pattern block approach are often beautifully designed and constructed, but the fit is that of a skin-tight bodice with the shoulders cut off, which misses the point entirely! One look at the sides of the waist gives the show away, and my goodness, those things must be uncomfortable. That sounded really, really, rude, so I'd like to apologize now and avoid the rush. =} I'm passionate about the fit of corsets, and when I see people wearing ill-fitting corsets and then going on and on about how uncomfortable and torturous corsets are, it makes my teeth itch. As to the Waugh corset, again, I'm not saying it's inaccurate; I'm saying it's not representative. The straight front was technically invented in 1900, but there are corsets that provided a straight front from before then, and corsets that didn't after then. In those first couple of years, there was a LOT of experimentation with the general idea; the Waugh corset is clearly from this era, and is one of the dead-end lines of experimentation. It's really just not that well-designed a corset, since a horizontal seam all the way across the side of the waist is a Bad Idea when it comes to this sort of thing. The early straight fronts were different in a lot of ways from what came about after the experimental period, and while they would have been considered real straight fronts in 1900 and 1901, by the latter half of 1902 they would have been completely out of step with the fashion and incapable of producing the fashionable silhouette. To go back to the original question, the silhouette desired was that of the middle of the decade, and the corset desired was one that would enforce that forward-leaning pose sometimes called an S-curve. The Waugh corset is not of the style used to create this silhouette. When I first saw it 15 years ago, I thought, Wow, yep, that's a stereotypical Edwardian corset! When I look at it now, I think, Wow! What a weird example of an Edwardian corset! It must be from--yep, I knew it: 1901. These are typical example of the seaming used to get that mid-decade silhouette: http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/straightfrontcorsets/photos/view/3b35?b=7 http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/straightfrontcorsets/photos/view/3b35?b=17 http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/straightfrontcorsets/photos/view/3b35?b=15 (click large) And for fun, this is from bizzaro-world (thank you, Lib of Congress): http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/straightfrontcorsets/photos/view/3b35?b=5 -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] straight front corset
I've never seen the actual pattern pieces for the Past Patterns version of the straight front corset, so please bear that in mind when I say this: I've been horribly disappointed in the accuracy of the patterns out there for straight front corsets. In this I even must include the Norah Waugh pattern in Corsets Crinolines; while it may well be based on an extant corset, it is in no way representative of the straight front corset, and if you're trying to get that look, you'll be disappointed. If you want accuracy and aren't afraid to try to figure out a difficult pattern, try this: http://www.agelesspatterns.com/corsets_5.htm #1339 (early Edwardian) or #1522 (late Edwardian). Both are representative of the lower cut Edwardians that were actually worn. Also, remembering that they are NOT to scale except for the last one, you may want to glance at the pattern pieces you'll see in the photos section of one of my yahoo groups: http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/straightfrontcorsets/photos/browse/1bcb That last one is the pattern to the coral corset you'll see me wearing elsewhere in the photos section; it's got a mid-decade straight front fit, but the top and bottom lines are very early decade. (You should be able to select Large under View in order to make out enough detail for it to be useable, but if not I can send you a larger version of the image.) If I remember right, that's a 26 waist, 40 bust, 42 hips, tall. By the way, whenever I get around to moving over all the files, the straight front yahoo group will be absorbed by my other corset group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Historical_Corsets/ which does have some good discussions on occasion. This is because for some reason, straight front corsets seems to mean let me tell you all about my sex life and send you a link to my 923432 favorite bondage sites to 75% of the potential members. Luckily, we haven't had too much of that trouble on historical corsets. Since many people ask, yes that is a corset I made on the front page, but sorry, I do make all my own patterns. If I ever decide to give a class in that, it'll be at FFC and I'll let the group know. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Pirates otC dress
Ok, so this is only quasi-semi-vaguely-barely historical. In the first pirates movie which I haven't seen for a couple of years, the heroine whose name I can't remember is given a dark plum dress to wear by some bad guy. I recently saw about 5 minutes of the movie again, at which point I remembered that I really liked that dress (especially the sleeves), and would like to make it, historical or not. However, apart from the corsets, I'm not really familiar with the clothing of that era (1650s or 1660sish?). I'm looking to make a version of it that's heavily based on the historical style, but which need not be absolutely accurate, since I'm doing it for sheer pretty-dress-ness. Other than Nicole Kipar's website and the Waugh and Arnold pattern books, can anyone point me to some resources that would be helpful from the viewpoint of actually making this sort of dress? I generally make my own patterns, but I'm definitely not above making use of a good commercial pattern, if there's one out there. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] deleting posts and post headers
I'd love to see some kind of prefix system, but honestly, I'd be delighted if we could just change the subject header to reflect the topic. I generally delete the messages I assume will be just chattiness, but on the occasions when I do read what I was about to delete, I often find that the conversation has ranged back into some real, interesting costuming content. And then I have to go on a hunt through my Deleted Items file to find the rest of it! Not that I always remember to change the header on my posts, mind you. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Chemise/shift/shirt
The one I favor can be seen here: http://www.pleatwork.com/papers/shirthandout.doc (fig 5b) or here: http://www.pleatwork.com/papers/Pleatworkshirthandout.pdf (fig 5a) As a matter of fact, I'm working on one now! -E ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Really OT! But too funny....
- Original Message - From: Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED] I won the Children's Literature category in 2004, which was the first time I entered ... So what was your winning opening line? My mind, it inquires. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
