Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Coming
Moron. On Wed, 2010-01-06 at 13:36 -0800, Phillip Vector wrote: Cracks me up like a honeypot. :) On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:34 PM, msleeper mslee...@ismsleeperwrong.com wrote: My favorite joke is when people don't spam the list with useless bullshit and funny jokes. Cracks me up every time. On Wed, 2010-01-06 at 21:29 +, Andrew Leach (luaduck) wrote: I find it great how none of you practice any kind of knowledge of sarcasm / humor. It was a joke On 06/01/2010 21:25, Ook wrote: Good luck with that. I doubt anyone will miss you or your server, as there are way too many sheep out there that will just put up with it and keep going... - Original Message - From: Andrew Leach (luaduck)m...@luaduck.co.uk To:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 1:11 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Coming I would like to measure my dissatisfaction that TF2 updates are now required (instead of optional) with a boycott of this game On 06/01/2010 20:59, Jason Ruymen wrote: A required update for Team Fortress 2 is on the way. It should be live in about 1 hour. Jason ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
Yeah I saw that, but generally I support the idea of a centralized blacklist. But only with really malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of DontWannaName! Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:36 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Hey look Voogru, you are on that list too for running 24+ max slots lol :P 24+ max players is part of the game now so that makes little sense... 67.213.213.107voogru.com24+ Max Players On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Matt Hoffman lord.matt.hoff...@gmail.comwrote: There's already http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ which is an active list. I believe it is designed for Peer Guardian/Peer Block/etc, so I second the option to import IP's and not have it be formatted. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald voo...@voogru.com wrote: The issue with the fake bot pings would probably have become more of an issue now that bots are becoming more available. Malicious server operators could disguise the valve tf2 bots as real players. Combine that with fake players in queries and you have one more problem to deal with. I've seen some of these servers actually disable the status command so you can't see their BOT steamids as well. With the creation of blacklists hopefully some people come up with a decent blacklist. I would have liked to see the blacklist option be able to import IP's from a website (even if it's just a txt file on the website) like PeerGuardian, perhaps it can be in a future update. -voogru -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Dislexsick Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 6:44 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The update states it is people changing the word BOT in the ping column on the scoreboard... This does not address fake player counts, a far more widespread and malicious tactic imo. Cheers, Joshua Bost -Original Message- From: Andy C grossk...@flotgaming.net Sent: Thursday, 7 January 2010 09:37 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The bot issue you are refering to has to do with server admins running fake clients plugins. These report more players in the server than there actually is. Apparently Valve has come up with bots that actually play the game, just like in L4D/L4D2. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Josh Bost dislexs...@dislexsick.com wrote: Tuned scoreboard logic to guard against malicious server operators spoofing bot pings to hide the BOT tag. As a follower of the SPUF I have seen threads about servers with bots with simulated pings, one just yesterday, in-fact. After reading this, the consensus seemed to be that although some people felt 'ripped off' it made a better experience for a few people. After reading about it I was curious, so I done a quick google search and sure enough there was a single plugin with something like 3 replies on the alliedmods forums. I don't really understand - Clearly this was not a completely widespread issue, and calling the server owners malicious is a little bit wrong I think. Personally, I wouldn't mind a server with a few bots as hosting a server locally, even with a fairly beefy CPU (Core2 Q9550) my game grinds to a screeching halt with 15 bots (9fps ftw). Anyway, since this is a controversial topic I realize this is not going to change, as it is for 'the better of the community' but really, I still think people are going to find a way around; I also think Valve would have been better off spending their time fixing a *real* problem, such as fake client counts - after all bots still contribute to the game. (For the record I don't even host a TF2 server [I used to help run one, now I have a L4D2 server], so my points are not coming from a bias pov) Cheers, Josh Bost On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 8:09 AM, Jason Ruymen jas...@valvesoftware.com wrote: A required update for Team Fortress 2 is now available. Please run hldsupdatetool to receive the update. The specific change include: Server Browser (for TF2 and DoD:S) - Added a client-side server blacklist: - Supports blacklisting of specific servers, all servers on an IP, and all servers on a class C range. - Saves the server list to a file, and has an Import button to allow easy sharing (cfg\server_blacklist.txt) Balance changes: - Reduced the health penalty on The Sandman. - The Force-A-Nature knockback on target now:
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
The issue with allowing people to import blocklists is that they will rush on Google and use the first blocklist they find. That blocklist will most likely be full of servers that $RANDOM_LUSER added to get back at $SERVER_OWNER for banning them for mic spamming. ~Peter Powell Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: Yeah I saw that, but generally I support the idea of a centralized blacklist. But only with really malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of DontWannaName! Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:36 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Hey look Voogru, you are on that list too for running 24+ max slots lol :P 24+ max players is part of the game now so that makes little sense... 67.213.213.107voogru.com24+ Max Players On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Matt Hoffman lord.matt.hoff...@gmail.comwrote: There's already http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ which is an active list. I believe it is designed for Peer Guardian/Peer Block/etc, so I second the option to import IP's and not have it be formatted. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald voo...@voogru.com wrote: The issue with the fake bot pings would probably have become more of an issue now that bots are becoming more available. Malicious server operators could disguise the valve tf2 bots as real players. Combine that with fake players in queries and you have one more problem to deal with. I've seen some of these servers actually disable the status command so you can't see their BOT steamids as well. With the creation of blacklists hopefully some people come up with a decent blacklist. I would have liked to see the blacklist option be able to import IP's from a website (even if it's just a txt file on the website) like PeerGuardian, perhaps it can be in a future update. -voogru -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Dislexsick Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 6:44 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The update states it is people changing the word BOT in the ping column on the scoreboard... This does not address fake player counts, a far more widespread and malicious tactic imo. Cheers, Joshua Bost -Original Message- From: Andy C grossk...@flotgaming.net Sent: Thursday, 7 January 2010 09:37 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The bot issue you are refering to has to do with server admins running fake clients plugins. These report more players in the server than there actually is. Apparently Valve has come up with bots that actually play the game, just like in L4D/L4D2. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Josh Bost dislexs...@dislexsick.com wrote: Tuned scoreboard logic to guard against malicious server operators spoofing bot pings to hide the BOT tag. As a follower of the SPUF I have seen threads about servers with bots with simulated pings, one just yesterday, in-fact. After reading this, the consensus seemed to be that although some people felt 'ripped off' it made a better experience for a few people. After reading about it I was curious, so I done a quick google search and sure enough there was a single plugin with something like 3 replies on the alliedmods forums. I don't really understand - Clearly this was not a completely widespread issue, and calling the server owners malicious is a little bit wrong I think. Personally, I wouldn't mind a server with a few bots as hosting a server locally, even with a fairly beefy CPU (Core2 Q9550) my game grinds to a screeching halt with 15 bots (9fps ftw). Anyway, since this is a controversial topic I realize this is not going to change, as it is for 'the better of the community' but really, I still think people are going to find a way around; I also think Valve would have been better off spending their time fixing a *real* problem, such as fake client counts - after all bots still contribute to the game. (For the record I don't even host a TF2 server [I used to help run one, now I have a L4D2 server], so my points are not coming from a bias pov) Cheers, Josh Bost On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 8:09 AM, Jason Ruymen jas...@valvesoftware.com wrote: A required update for Team Fortress 2 is
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
That's the damn truth.. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Peter Powell Sent: 2010-01-07 9:12 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The issue with allowing people to import blocklists is that they will rush on Google and use the first blocklist they find. That blocklist will most likely be full of servers that $RANDOM_LUSER added to get back at $SERVER_OWNER for banning them for mic spamming. ~Peter Powell Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: Yeah I saw that, but generally I support the idea of a centralized blacklist. But only with really malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of DontWannaName! Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:36 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Hey look Voogru, you are on that list too for running 24+ max slots lol :P 24+ max players is part of the game now so that makes little sense... 67.213.213.107voogru.com24+ Max Players On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Matt Hoffman lord.matt.hoff...@gmail.comwrote: There's already http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ which is an active list. I believe it is designed for Peer Guardian/Peer Block/etc, so I second the option to import IP's and not have it be formatted. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald voo...@voogru.com wrote: The issue with the fake bot pings would probably have become more of an issue now that bots are becoming more available. Malicious server operators could disguise the valve tf2 bots as real players. Combine that with fake players in queries and you have one more problem to deal with. I've seen some of these servers actually disable the status command so you can't see their BOT steamids as well. With the creation of blacklists hopefully some people come up with a decent blacklist. I would have liked to see the blacklist option be able to import IP's from a website (even if it's just a txt file on the website) like PeerGuardian, perhaps it can be in a future update. -voogru -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Dislexsick Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 6:44 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The update states it is people changing the word BOT in the ping column on the scoreboard... This does not address fake player counts, a far more widespread and malicious tactic imo. Cheers, Joshua Bost -Original Message- From: Andy C grossk...@flotgaming.net Sent: Thursday, 7 January 2010 09:37 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The bot issue you are refering to has to do with server admins running fake clients plugins. These report more players in the server than there actually is. Apparently Valve has come up with bots that actually play the game, just like in L4D/L4D2. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Josh Bost dislexs...@dislexsick.com wrote: Tuned scoreboard logic to guard against malicious server operators spoofing bot pings to hide the BOT tag. As a follower of the SPUF I have seen threads about servers with bots with simulated pings, one just yesterday, in-fact. After reading this, the consensus seemed to be that although some people felt 'ripped off' it made a better experience for a few people. After reading about it I was curious, so I done a quick google search and sure enough there was a single plugin with something like 3 replies on the alliedmods forums. I don't really understand - Clearly this was not a completely widespread issue, and calling the server owners malicious is a little bit wrong I think. Personally, I wouldn't mind a server with a few bots as hosting a server locally, even with a fairly beefy CPU (Core2 Q9550) my game grinds to a screeching halt with 15 bots (9fps ftw). Anyway, since this is a controversial topic I realize this is not going to change, as it is for 'the better of the community' but really, I still think people are going to find a way around; I also think Valve would have been better off spending their time fixing a *real* problem, such as fake client counts - after all bots still contribute to the game. (For the record I don't even host a TF2
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
If you have a centralized blacklist that people trust, maintain it and verify submitted servers to prevent abuse, I think it's better than not having a blacklist at all. This is also why I would only blacklist malicious servers, it's not too difficult to verify malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Don Williams Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 9:33 AM To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available That's the damn truth.. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Peter Powell Sent: 2010-01-07 9:12 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The issue with allowing people to import blocklists is that they will rush on Google and use the first blocklist they find. That blocklist will most likely be full of servers that $RANDOM_LUSER added to get back at $SERVER_OWNER for banning them for mic spamming. ~Peter Powell Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: Yeah I saw that, but generally I support the idea of a centralized blacklist. But only with really malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of DontWannaName! Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:36 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Hey look Voogru, you are on that list too for running 24+ max slots lol :P 24+ max players is part of the game now so that makes little sense... 67.213.213.107voogru.com24+ Max Players On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Matt Hoffman lord.matt.hoff...@gmail.comwrote: There's already http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ which is an active list. I believe it is designed for Peer Guardian/Peer Block/etc, so I second the option to import IP's and not have it be formatted. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald voo...@voogru.com wrote: The issue with the fake bot pings would probably have become more of an issue now that bots are becoming more available. Malicious server operators could disguise the valve tf2 bots as real players. Combine that with fake players in queries and you have one more problem to deal with. I've seen some of these servers actually disable the status command so you can't see their BOT steamids as well. With the creation of blacklists hopefully some people come up with a decent blacklist. I would have liked to see the blacklist option be able to import IP's from a website (even if it's just a txt file on the website) like PeerGuardian, perhaps it can be in a future update. -voogru -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Dislexsick Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 6:44 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The update states it is people changing the word BOT in the ping column on the scoreboard... This does not address fake player counts, a far more widespread and malicious tactic imo. Cheers, Joshua Bost -Original Message- From: Andy C grossk...@flotgaming.net Sent: Thursday, 7 January 2010 09:37 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The bot issue you are refering to has to do with server admins running fake clients plugins. These report more players in the server than there actually is. Apparently Valve has come up with bots that actually play the game, just like in L4D/L4D2. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Josh Bost dislexs...@dislexsick.com wrote: Tuned scoreboard logic to guard against malicious server operators spoofing bot pings to hide the BOT tag. As a follower of the SPUF I have seen threads about servers with bots with simulated pings, one just yesterday, in-fact. After reading this, the consensus seemed to be that although some people felt 'ripped off' it made a better experience for a few people. After reading about it I was curious, so I done a quick google search and sure enough there was a single plugin with something like 3 replies on the alliedmods forums. I don't really understand - Clearly this was not a completely widespread issue, and calling the server owners malicious is a little bit wrong I think. Personally, I wouldn't mind a server with a few bots as hosting a server locally, even
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
But *you* are not *everyone*. It only takes one malicious/incorrect entry to start screwing things up. On 7/01/2010 10:42 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: If you have a centralized blacklist that people trust, maintain it and verify submitted servers to prevent abuse, I think it's better than not having a blacklist at all. This is also why I would only blacklist malicious servers, it's not too difficult to verify malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Don Williams Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 9:33 AM To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available That's the damn truth.. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Peter Powell Sent: 2010-01-07 9:12 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The issue with allowing people to import blocklists is that they will rush on Google and use the first blocklist they find. That blocklist will most likely be full of servers that $RANDOM_LUSER added to get back at $SERVER_OWNER for banning them for mic spamming. ~Peter Powell Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: Yeah I saw that, but generally I support the idea of a centralized blacklist. But only with really malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of DontWannaName! Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:36 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Hey look Voogru, you are on that list too for running 24+ max slots lol :P 24+ max players is part of the game now so that makes little sense... 67.213.213.107voogru.com24+ Max Players On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Matt Hoffman lord.matt.hoff...@gmail.comwrote: There's already http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ which is an active list. I believe it is designed for Peer Guardian/Peer Block/etc, so I second the option to import IP's and not have it be formatted. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald voo...@voogru.com wrote: The issue with the fake bot pings would probably have become more of an issue now that bots are becoming more available. Malicious server operators could disguise the valve tf2 bots as real players. Combine that with fake players in queries and you have one more problem to deal with. I've seen some of these servers actually disable the status command so you can't see their BOT steamids as well. With the creation of blacklists hopefully some people come up with a decent blacklist. I would have liked to see the blacklist option be able to import IP's from a website (even if it's just a txt file on the website) like PeerGuardian, perhaps it can be in a future update. -voogru -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Dislexsick Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 6:44 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The update states it is people changing the word BOT in the ping column on the scoreboard... This does not address fake player counts, a far more widespread and malicious tactic imo. Cheers, Joshua Bost -Original Message- From: Andy Cgrossk...@flotgaming.net Sent: Thursday, 7 January 2010 09:37 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The bot issue you are refering to has to do with server admins running fake clients plugins. These report more players in the server than there actually is. Apparently Valve has come up with bots that actually play the game, just like in L4D/L4D2. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Josh Bostdislexs...@dislexsick.com wrote: Tuned scoreboard logic to guard against malicious server operators spoofing bot pings to hide the BOT tag. As a follower of the SPUF I have seen threads about servers with bots with simulated pings, one just yesterday, in-fact. After reading this, the consensus seemed to be that although some people felt 'ripped off' it made a better experience for a few people. After reading about it I was curious, so I done a quick google search and sure enough there was a single plugin with something like 3 replies on the alliedmods
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ 2010/1/7 Shane Arnold clontar...@iinet.net.au But *you* are not *everyone*. It only takes one malicious/incorrect entry to start screwing things up. On 7/01/2010 10:42 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: If you have a centralized blacklist that people trust, maintain it and verify submitted servers to prevent abuse, I think it's better than not having a blacklist at all. This is also why I would only blacklist malicious servers, it's not too difficult to verify malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Don Williams Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 9:33 AM To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available That's the damn truth.. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Peter Powell Sent: 2010-01-07 9:12 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The issue with allowing people to import blocklists is that they will rush on Google and use the first blocklist they find. That blocklist will most likely be full of servers that $RANDOM_LUSER added to get back at $SERVER_OWNER for banning them for mic spamming. ~Peter Powell Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: Yeah I saw that, but generally I support the idea of a centralized blacklist. But only with really malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of DontWannaName! Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:36 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Hey look Voogru, you are on that list too for running 24+ max slots lol :P 24+ max players is part of the game now so that makes little sense... 67.213.213.107voogru.com24+ Max Players On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Matt Hoffman lord.matt.hoff...@gmail.comwrote: There's already http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ which is an active list. I believe it is designed for Peer Guardian/Peer Block/etc, so I second the option to import IP's and not have it be formatted. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald voo...@voogru.com wrote: The issue with the fake bot pings would probably have become more of an issue now that bots are becoming more available. Malicious server operators could disguise the valve tf2 bots as real players. Combine that with fake players in queries and you have one more problem to deal with. I've seen some of these servers actually disable the status command so you can't see their BOT steamids as well. With the creation of blacklists hopefully some people come up with a decent blacklist. I would have liked to see the blacklist option be able to import IP's from a website (even if it's just a txt file on the website) like PeerGuardian, perhaps it can be in a future update. -voogru -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Dislexsick Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 6:44 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The update states it is people changing the word BOT in the ping column on the scoreboard... This does not address fake player counts, a far more widespread and malicious tactic imo. Cheers, Joshua Bost -Original Message- From: Andy Cgrossk...@flotgaming.net Sent: Thursday, 7 January 2010 09:37 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The bot issue you are refering to has to do with server admins running fake clients plugins. These report more players in the server than there actually is. Apparently Valve has come up with bots that actually play the game, just like in L4D/L4D2. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Josh Bostdislexs...@dislexsick.com wrote: Tuned scoreboard logic to guard against malicious server operators spoofing bot pings to hide the BOT tag. As a follower of the SPUF I have seen threads about servers with bots with simulated pings, one just yesterday, in-fact. After reading this, the consensus seemed to be that although some people felt 'ripped off' it made a better experience for a few people. After reading about it I was curious, so I done a quick google search and sure enough there was a single plugin with something like 3
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
So Poor admins will include all good servers... Which dumbass made this website? http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ 2010/1/7 Shane Arnold clontar...@iinet.net.au But *you* are not *everyone*. It only takes one malicious/incorrect entry to start screwing things up. On 7/01/2010 10:42 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: If you have a centralized blacklist that people trust, maintain it and verify submitted servers to prevent abuse, I think it's better than not having a blacklist at all. This is also why I would only blacklist malicious servers, it's not too difficult to verify malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Don Williams Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 9:33 AM To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available That's the damn truth.. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Peter Powell Sent: 2010-01-07 9:12 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The issue with allowing people to import blocklists is that they will rush on Google and use the first blocklist they find. That blocklist will most likely be full of servers that $RANDOM_LUSER added to get back at $SERVER_OWNER for banning them for mic spamming. ~Peter Powell Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: Yeah I saw that, but generally I support the idea of a centralized blacklist. But only with really malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of DontWannaName! Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:36 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Hey look Voogru, you are on that list too for running 24+ max slots lol :P 24+ max players is part of the game now so that makes little sense... 67.213.213.107voogru.com24+ Max Players On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Matt Hoffman lord.matt.hoff...@gmail.comwrote: There's already http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ which is an active list. I believe it is designed for Peer Guardian/Peer Block/etc, so I second the option to import IP's and not have it be formatted. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald voo...@voogru.com wrote: The issue with the fake bot pings would probably have become more of an issue now that bots are becoming more available. Malicious server operators could disguise the valve tf2 bots as real players. Combine that with fake players in queries and you have one more problem to deal with. I've seen some of these servers actually disable the status command so you can't see their BOT steamids as well. With the creation of blacklists hopefully some people come up with a decent blacklist. I would have liked to see the blacklist option be able to import IP's from a website (even if it's just a txt file on the website) like PeerGuardian, perhaps it can be in a future update. -voogru -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Dislexsick Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 6:44 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The update states it is people changing the word BOT in the ping column on the scoreboard... This does not address fake player counts, a far more widespread and malicious tactic imo. Cheers, Joshua Bost -Original Message- From: Andy Cgrossk...@flotgaming.net Sent: Thursday, 7 January 2010 09:37 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The bot issue you are refering to has to do with server admins running fake clients plugins. These report more players in the server than there actually is. Apparently Valve has come up with bots that actually play the game, just like in L4D/L4D2. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Josh Bostdislexs...@dislexsick.com wrote: Tuned scoreboard logic to guard against malicious server operators spoofing bot pings to hide the BOT tag. As a follower of the SPUF I have seen threads about servers with bots with simulated pings, one just yesterday, in-fact. After reading this, the consensus seemed to be that although some people felt 'ripped off' it made a better experience for a few people. After reading about it I was
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
Someone that has something against us server owners. He got butt hurt because he got banned, something along those lines. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Ronny Schedel Sent: 2010-01-07 10:51 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available So Poor admins will include all good servers... Which dumbass made this website? http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ 2010/1/7 Shane Arnold clontar...@iinet.net.au But *you* are not *everyone*. It only takes one malicious/incorrect entry to start screwing things up. On 7/01/2010 10:42 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: If you have a centralized blacklist that people trust, maintain it and verify submitted servers to prevent abuse, I think it's better than not having a blacklist at all. This is also why I would only blacklist malicious servers, it's not too difficult to verify malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Don Williams Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 9:33 AM To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available That's the damn truth.. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Peter Powell Sent: 2010-01-07 9:12 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The issue with allowing people to import blocklists is that they will rush on Google and use the first blocklist they find. That blocklist will most likely be full of servers that $RANDOM_LUSER added to get back at $SERVER_OWNER for banning them for mic spamming. ~Peter Powell Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: Yeah I saw that, but generally I support the idea of a centralized blacklist. But only with really malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of DontWannaName! Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:36 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Hey look Voogru, you are on that list too for running 24+ max slots lol :P 24+ max players is part of the game now so that makes little sense... 67.213.213.107voogru.com24+ Max Players On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Matt Hoffman lord.matt.hoff...@gmail.comwrote: There's already http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ which is an active list. I believe it is designed for Peer Guardian/Peer Block/etc, so I second the option to import IP's and not have it be formatted. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald voo...@voogru.com wrote: The issue with the fake bot pings would probably have become more of an issue now that bots are becoming more available. Malicious server operators could disguise the valve tf2 bots as real players. Combine that with fake players in queries and you have one more problem to deal with. I've seen some of these servers actually disable the status command so you can't see their BOT steamids as well. With the creation of blacklists hopefully some people come up with a decent blacklist. I would have liked to see the blacklist option be able to import IP's from a website (even if it's just a txt file on the website) like PeerGuardian, perhaps it can be in a future update. -voogru -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Dislexsick Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 6:44 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The update states it is people changing the word BOT in the ping column on the scoreboard... This does not address fake player counts, a far more widespread and malicious tactic imo. Cheers, Joshua Bost -Original Message- From: Andy Cgrossk...@flotgaming.net Sent: Thursday, 7 January 2010 09:37 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The bot issue you are refering to has to do with server admins running fake clients plugins. These report more players in the server than there actually is. Apparently Valve has come up with bots that actually play the game, just like in L4D/L4D2. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Josh Bostdislexs...@dislexsick.com wrote: Tuned scoreboard logic to guard against malicious server
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
in reality the blacklist won't do much unless valve starts publicly enforcing which servers are blacklisted for everyone. i doubt most veteran players for tf2 even use the master server list to grab servers, most have their selected servers already whether it be in their favorites or in their history tab. its really only meant for new people to tf2 and frankly is a year or two too late now :) but i have to agree the import feature is not exactly the brightest idea. i really don't trust other people's banlist, let alone giving someone else the control of what servers to remove from your server browser. it could be used for good, but it can also easily be used to derail server communities and eliminate competition. On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Nightbox alexandrualexa...@gmail.comwrote: http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ 2010/1/7 Shane Arnold clontar...@iinet.net.au But *you* are not *everyone*. It only takes one malicious/incorrect entry to start screwing things up. On 7/01/2010 10:42 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: If you have a centralized blacklist that people trust, maintain it and verify submitted servers to prevent abuse, I think it's better than not having a blacklist at all. This is also why I would only blacklist malicious servers, it's not too difficult to verify malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Don Williams Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 9:33 AM To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available That's the damn truth.. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Peter Powell Sent: 2010-01-07 9:12 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The issue with allowing people to import blocklists is that they will rush on Google and use the first blocklist they find. That blocklist will most likely be full of servers that $RANDOM_LUSER added to get back at $SERVER_OWNER for banning them for mic spamming. ~Peter Powell Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: Yeah I saw that, but generally I support the idea of a centralized blacklist. But only with really malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of DontWannaName! Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:36 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Hey look Voogru, you are on that list too for running 24+ max slots lol :P 24+ max players is part of the game now so that makes little sense... 67.213.213.107voogru.com24+ Max Players On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Matt Hoffman lord.matt.hoff...@gmail.comwrote: There's already http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ which is an active list. I believe it is designed for Peer Guardian/Peer Block/etc, so I second the option to import IP's and not have it be formatted. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald voo...@voogru.com wrote: The issue with the fake bot pings would probably have become more of an issue now that bots are becoming more available. Malicious server operators could disguise the valve tf2 bots as real players. Combine that with fake players in queries and you have one more problem to deal with. I've seen some of these servers actually disable the status command so you can't see their BOT steamids as well. With the creation of blacklists hopefully some people come up with a decent blacklist. I would have liked to see the blacklist option be able to import IP's from a website (even if it's just a txt file on the website) like PeerGuardian, perhaps it can be in a future update. -voogru -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Dislexsick Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 6:44 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The update states it is people changing the word BOT in the ping column on the scoreboard... This does not address fake player counts, a far more widespread and malicious tactic imo. Cheers, Joshua Bost -Original Message- From: Andy Cgrossk...@flotgaming.net Sent: Thursday, 7 January 2010 09:37 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject:
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
How about an import function for favorite servers? That would be nice. in reality the blacklist won't do much unless valve starts publicly enforcing which servers are blacklisted for everyone. i doubt most veteran players for tf2 even use the master server list to grab servers, most have their selected servers already whether it be in their favorites or in their history tab. its really only meant for new people to tf2 and frankly is a year or two too late now :) but i have to agree the import feature is not exactly the brightest idea. i really don't trust other people's banlist, let alone giving someone else the control of what servers to remove from your server browser. it could be used for good, but it can also easily be used to derail server communities and eliminate competition. On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Nightbox alexandrualexa...@gmail.comwrote: http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ 2010/1/7 Shane Arnold clontar...@iinet.net.au But *you* are not *everyone*. It only takes one malicious/incorrect entry to start screwing things up. On 7/01/2010 10:42 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: If you have a centralized blacklist that people trust, maintain it and verify submitted servers to prevent abuse, I think it's better than not having a blacklist at all. This is also why I would only blacklist malicious servers, it's not too difficult to verify malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Don Williams Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 9:33 AM To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available That's the damn truth.. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Peter Powell Sent: 2010-01-07 9:12 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The issue with allowing people to import blocklists is that they will rush on Google and use the first blocklist they find. That blocklist will most likely be full of servers that $RANDOM_LUSER added to get back at $SERVER_OWNER for banning them for mic spamming. ~Peter Powell Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: Yeah I saw that, but generally I support the idea of a centralized blacklist. But only with really malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of DontWannaName! Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:36 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Hey look Voogru, you are on that list too for running 24+ max slots lol :P 24+ max players is part of the game now so that makes little sense... 67.213.213.107voogru.com24+ Max Players On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Matt Hoffman lord.matt.hoff...@gmail.comwrote: There's already http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ which is an active list. I believe it is designed for Peer Guardian/Peer Block/etc, so I second the option to import IP's and not have it be formatted. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald voo...@voogru.com wrote: The issue with the fake bot pings would probably have become more of an issue now that bots are becoming more available. Malicious server operators could disguise the valve tf2 bots as real players. Combine that with fake players in queries and you have one more problem to deal with. I've seen some of these servers actually disable the status command so you can't see their BOT steamids as well. With the creation of blacklists hopefully some people come up with a decent blacklist. I would have liked to see the blacklist option be able to import IP's from a website (even if it's just a txt file on the website) like PeerGuardian, perhaps it can be in a future update. -voogru -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Dislexsick Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 6:44 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The update states it is people changing the word BOT in the ping column on the scoreboard... This does not address fake player counts, a far more widespread and malicious tactic imo. Cheers, Joshua Bost -Original Message- From: Andy
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
Your message to hlds awaits moderator approval Looks like my message was not sent. Trying again: Make the blacklist work with the server scoring thing. When someone blacklist a servers, it looses points. Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
Make the blacklist work with the server scoring thing. When someone blacklist a servers, it looses points. This can led to abuse.. Get banned = Revenge 2010/1/7 AnAkIn . anakin...@gmail.com Your message to hlds awaits moderator approval Looks like my message was not sent. Trying again: Make the blacklist work with the server scoring thing. When someone blacklist a servers, it looses points. Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
I know. Ffs. Poor admins. Any banned idiot can report a server. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Ronny Schedel i...@ronny-schedel.de Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 16:51:09 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing listhlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available So Poor admins will include all good servers... Which dumbass made this website? http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ 2010/1/7 Shane Arnold clontar...@iinet.net.au But *you* are not *everyone*. It only takes one malicious/incorrect entry to start screwing things up. On 7/01/2010 10:42 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: If you have a centralized blacklist that people trust, maintain it and verify submitted servers to prevent abuse, I think it's better than not having a blacklist at all. This is also why I would only blacklist malicious servers, it's not too difficult to verify malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Don Williams Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 9:33 AM To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available That's the damn truth.. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Peter Powell Sent: 2010-01-07 9:12 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The issue with allowing people to import blocklists is that they will rush on Google and use the first blocklist they find. That blocklist will most likely be full of servers that $RANDOM_LUSER added to get back at $SERVER_OWNER for banning them for mic spamming. ~Peter Powell Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: Yeah I saw that, but generally I support the idea of a centralized blacklist. But only with really malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of DontWannaName! Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:36 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Hey look Voogru, you are on that list too for running 24+ max slots lol :P 24+ max players is part of the game now so that makes little sense... 67.213.213.107voogru.com24+ Max Players On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Matt Hoffman lord.matt.hoff...@gmail.comwrote: There's already http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ which is an active list. I believe it is designed for Peer Guardian/Peer Block/etc, so I second the option to import IP's and not have it be formatted. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald voo...@voogru.com wrote: The issue with the fake bot pings would probably have become more of an issue now that bots are becoming more available. Malicious server operators could disguise the valve tf2 bots as real players. Combine that with fake players in queries and you have one more problem to deal with. I've seen some of these servers actually disable the status command so you can't see their BOT steamids as well. With the creation of blacklists hopefully some people come up with a decent blacklist. I would have liked to see the blacklist option be able to import IP's from a website (even if it's just a txt file on the website) like PeerGuardian, perhaps it can be in a future update. -voogru -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Dislexsick Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 6:44 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The update states it is people changing the word BOT in the ping column on the scoreboard... This does not address fake player counts, a far more widespread and malicious tactic imo. Cheers, Joshua Bost -Original Message- From: Andy Cgrossk...@flotgaming.net Sent: Thursday, 7 January 2010 09:37 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The bot issue you are refering to has to do with server admins running fake clients plugins. These report more players in the server than there actually is. Apparently Valve has come up with bots that actually play the game, just like in L4D/L4D2. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Josh Bostdislexs...@dislexsick.com wrote: Tuned scoreboard logic to guard against malicious server operators spoofing bot pings to hide the BOT tag. As a
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
it could be used for good, but it can also easily be used to derail server communities and eliminate competition. I agree. However, the blacklist feature is there. So why not start a legitimate centralized blacklist that has some oversight before we start seeing malicious blacklists that just blacklist competitors. If people trust the clowns over legitimate blacklists, then that's their problem. But if the only choice they have is clowns, they might go with clowns. I run servers too you know, so this is something I care about. I wouldn't want to be blacklisted just like any other server operator here. But I think malicious servers (fake players being the primary offender) should be blacklisted. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Shizzle Nizzle Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:54 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available in reality the blacklist won't do much unless valve starts publicly enforcing which servers are blacklisted for everyone. i doubt most veteran players for tf2 even use the master server list to grab servers, most have their selected servers already whether it be in their favorites or in their history tab. its really only meant for new people to tf2 and frankly is a year or two too late now :) but i have to agree the import feature is not exactly the brightest idea. i really don't trust other people's banlist, let alone giving someone else the control of what servers to remove from your server browser. it could be used for good, but it can also easily be used to derail server communities and eliminate competition. On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Nightbox alexandrualexa...@gmail.comwrote: http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ 2010/1/7 Shane Arnold clontar...@iinet.net.au But *you* are not *everyone*. It only takes one malicious/incorrect entry to start screwing things up. On 7/01/2010 10:42 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: If you have a centralized blacklist that people trust, maintain it and verify submitted servers to prevent abuse, I think it's better than not having a blacklist at all. This is also why I would only blacklist malicious servers, it's not too difficult to verify malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Don Williams Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 9:33 AM To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available That's the damn truth.. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Peter Powell Sent: 2010-01-07 9:12 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The issue with allowing people to import blocklists is that they will rush on Google and use the first blocklist they find. That blocklist will most likely be full of servers that $RANDOM_LUSER added to get back at $SERVER_OWNER for banning them for mic spamming. ~Peter Powell Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: Yeah I saw that, but generally I support the idea of a centralized blacklist. But only with really malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of DontWannaName! Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:36 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Hey look Voogru, you are on that list too for running 24+ max slots lol :P 24+ max players is part of the game now so that makes little sense... 67.213.213.107voogru.com24+ Max Players On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Matt Hoffman lord.matt.hoff...@gmail.comwrote: There's already http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ which is an active list. I believe it is designed for Peer Guardian/Peer Block/etc, so I second the option to import IP's and not have it be formatted. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald voo...@voogru.com wrote: The issue with the fake bot pings would probably have become more of an issue now that bots are becoming more available. Malicious server operators could disguise the valve tf2 bots as real players. Combine that with fake players in queries and you have one more problem to deal with. I've seen some of these servers actually disable the status command so you can't see their BOT steamids as well. With the creation of blacklists hopefully some people come up with a decent
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
Fake player server can be delisted by Valve very easily. They already know who is playing on which server. They just have to check each server if there are different players reported which actually does not exist. it could be used for good, but it can also easily be used to derail server communities and eliminate competition. I agree. However, the blacklist feature is there. So why not start a legitimate centralized blacklist that has some oversight before we start seeing malicious blacklists that just blacklist competitors. If people trust the clowns over legitimate blacklists, then that's their problem. But if the only choice they have is clowns, they might go with clowns. I run servers too you know, so this is something I care about. I wouldn't want to be blacklisted just like any other server operator here. But I think malicious servers (fake players being the primary offender) should be blacklisted. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Shizzle Nizzle Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:54 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available in reality the blacklist won't do much unless valve starts publicly enforcing which servers are blacklisted for everyone. i doubt most veteran players for tf2 even use the master server list to grab servers, most have their selected servers already whether it be in their favorites or in their history tab. its really only meant for new people to tf2 and frankly is a year or two too late now :) but i have to agree the import feature is not exactly the brightest idea. i really don't trust other people's banlist, let alone giving someone else the control of what servers to remove from your server browser. it could be used for good, but it can also easily be used to derail server communities and eliminate competition. On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Nightbox alexandrualexa...@gmail.comwrote: http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ 2010/1/7 Shane Arnold clontar...@iinet.net.au But *you* are not *everyone*. It only takes one malicious/incorrect entry to start screwing things up. On 7/01/2010 10:42 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: If you have a centralized blacklist that people trust, maintain it and verify submitted servers to prevent abuse, I think it's better than not having a blacklist at all. This is also why I would only blacklist malicious servers, it's not too difficult to verify malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Don Williams Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 9:33 AM To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available That's the damn truth.. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Peter Powell Sent: 2010-01-07 9:12 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The issue with allowing people to import blocklists is that they will rush on Google and use the first blocklist they find. That blocklist will most likely be full of servers that $RANDOM_LUSER added to get back at $SERVER_OWNER for banning them for mic spamming. ~Peter Powell Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: Yeah I saw that, but generally I support the idea of a centralized blacklist. But only with really malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of DontWannaName! Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:36 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Hey look Voogru, you are on that list too for running 24+ max slots lol :P 24+ max players is part of the game now so that makes little sense... 67.213.213.107voogru.com24+ Max Players On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Matt Hoffman lord.matt.hoff...@gmail.comwrote: There's already http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ which is an active list. I believe it is designed for Peer Guardian/Peer Block/etc, so I second the option to import IP's and not have it be formatted. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald voo...@voogru.com wrote: The issue with the fake bot pings would probably have become more of an issue now that bots are becoming more available. Malicious server operators could disguise the valve tf2 bots as real players. Combine that with fake players in queries and you
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ They probably have other things to do, like, you know, making games. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of AnAkIn . Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:11 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Your message to hlds awaits moderator approval Looks like my message was not sent. Trying again: Make the blacklist work with the server scoring thing. When someone blacklist a servers, it looses points. Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
They already tried to delist bad servers, but they did the wrong. They have resources to satisfy players. Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ They probably have other things to do, like, you know, making games. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of AnAkIn . Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:11 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Your message to hlds awaits moderator approval Looks like my message was not sent. Trying again: Make the blacklist work with the server scoring thing. When someone blacklist a servers, it looses points. Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
i think they are just giving people the option to remove servers they dont want to see on their server browser for whatever reason it maybe, they are giving the user the freedom of choice to choose their gaming experience, for me its instant respawn 2fort servers off my list :D lol. if people really had a problem with fakeclient servers that much.. they wouldnt play on it, they wouldn't be popular, and they wouldnt such have huge communities backing it. im sure there is also a good majority who don't like it, but i no there are many who also don't mind it and also support it. bottom line is valve gives you the option to choose where you want to play, without getting involved. i just wished they didn't incorporate an import function :P On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Ronny Schedel i...@ronny-schedel.dewrote: They already tried to delist bad servers, but they did the wrong. They have resources to satisfy players. Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ They probably have other things to do, like, you know, making games. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of AnAkIn . Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:11 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Your message to hlds awaits moderator approval Looks like my message was not sent. Trying again: Make the blacklist work with the server scoring thing. When someone blacklist a servers, it looses points. Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
Don't know about you, but I am part of my clans group on steam communities. It would be handy to be able to subscribe to a bad list that is pushed out by our server group. Maybe the option to toggle if you want to subscribe to the list for each group you are in. Players could then join a Ban Fake Player Count server group, and pull in the list of bans from that group. Our clan leader could ban servers in the group, so that I don't end up playing on a server that has been delisted by our other members. This would give the 'opt-in' 'opt-out' control that some users would prefer over a global server delisting. Allan -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Shizzle Nizzle Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:59 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available i think they are just giving people the option to remove servers they dont want to see on their server browser for whatever reason it maybe, they are giving the user the freedom of choice to choose their gaming experience, for me its instant respawn 2fort servers off my list :D lol. if people really had a problem with fakeclient servers that much.. they wouldnt play on it, they wouldn't be popular, and they wouldnt such have huge communities backing it. im sure there is also a good majority who don't like it, but i no there are many who also don't mind it and also support it. bottom line is valve gives you the option to choose where you want to play, without getting involved. i just wished they didn't incorporate an import function :P On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Ronny Schedel i...@ronny-schedel.dewrote: They already tried to delist bad servers, but they did the wrong. They have resources to satisfy players. Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ They probably have other things to do, like, you know, making games. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of AnAkIn . Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:11 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Your message to hlds awaits moderator approval Looks like my message was not sent. Trying again: Make the blacklist work with the server scoring thing. When someone blacklist a servers, it looses points. Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
Or adjusting the Sandman settings for the Nth time. ;D ~Peter Powell Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ They probably have other things to do, like, you know, making games. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of AnAkIn . Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:11 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Your message to hlds awaits moderator approval Looks like my message was not sent. Trying again: Make the blacklist work with the server scoring thing. When someone blacklist a servers, it looses points. Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
Not being funny, but fakeclients are unbelievably easy to detect by Steam. It could get a list of connected players via A2S query, then Steam backend asks the server for a list of connected Steam users, then Steam querys each one of these reported users to see if they are connected to that server. If some of the users don't exist, or are offline, or are connected to another server, then it's obvious that the server is reporting fake clients. Thanks, - Saul. 2010/1/7 Peter Powell li...@ppowell.co.uk Or adjusting the Sandman settings for the Nth time. ;D ~Peter Powell Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ They probably have other things to do, like, you know, making games. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of AnAkIn . Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:11 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Your message to hlds awaits moderator approval Looks like my message was not sent. Trying again: Make the blacklist work with the server scoring thing. When someone blacklist a servers, it looses points. Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
I have 60,000 people in my group ill add everyons elses server but my own lol Its the same thing as posting a list on the internet. Your still giving comtroll of your server list to some 3rd party. Now I'm off to add a bunch of random servers to that online blacklist.. hmm anyone that I don't like? Let me think here Allan Button abut...@netaccess.ca wrote: Don't know about you, but I am part of my clans group on steam communities. It would be handy to be able to subscribe to a bad list that is pushed out by our server group. Maybe the option to toggle if you want to subscribe to the list for each group you are in. Players could then join a Ban Fake Player Count server group, and pull in the list of bans from that group. Our clan leader could ban servers in the group, so that I don't end up playing on a server that has been delisted by our other members. This would give the 'opt-in' 'opt-out' control that some users would prefer over a global server delisting. Allan -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Shizzle Nizzle Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:59 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available i think they are just giving people the option to remove servers they dont want to see on their server browser for whatever reason it maybe, they are giving the user the freedom of choice to choose their gaming experience, for me its instant respawn 2fort servers off my list :D lol. if people really had a problem with fakeclient servers that much.. they wouldnt play on it, they wouldn't be popular, and they wouldnt such have huge communities backing it. im sure there is also a good majority who don't like it, but i no there are many who also don't mind it and also support it. bottom line is valve gives you the option to choose where you want to play, without getting involved. i just wished they didn't incorporate an import function :P On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Ronny Schedel i...@ronny-schedel.dewrote: They already tried to delist bad servers, but they did the wrong. They have resources to satisfy players. Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ They probably have other things to do, like, you know, making games. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of AnAkIn . Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:11 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Your message to hlds awaits moderator approval Looks like my message was not sent. Trying again: Make the blacklist work with the server scoring thing. When someone blacklist a servers, it looses points. Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
Could you guys break this discussion to a new thread? André Coelho Cel. +5521 8836.7622 DClick Web Mobile Solutions LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/andrebrait On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Mike Stiehm mikesti...@gmail.com wrote: I have 60,000 people in my group ill add everyons elses server but my own lol Its the same thing as posting a list on the internet. Your still giving comtroll of your server list to some 3rd party. Now I'm off to add a bunch of random servers to that online blacklist.. hmm anyone that I don't like? Let me think here Allan Button abut...@netaccess.ca wrote: Don't know about you, but I am part of my clans group on steam communities. It would be handy to be able to subscribe to a bad list that is pushed out by our server group. Maybe the option to toggle if you want to subscribe to the list for each group you are in. Players could then join a Ban Fake Player Count server group, and pull in the list of bans from that group. Our clan leader could ban servers in the group, so that I don't end up playing on a server that has been delisted by our other members. This would give the 'opt-in' 'opt-out' control that some users would prefer over a global server delisting. Allan -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Shizzle Nizzle Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:59 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available i think they are just giving people the option to remove servers they dont want to see on their server browser for whatever reason it maybe, they are giving the user the freedom of choice to choose their gaming experience, for me its instant respawn 2fort servers off my list :D lol. if people really had a problem with fakeclient servers that much.. they wouldnt play on it, they wouldn't be popular, and they wouldnt such have huge communities backing it. im sure there is also a good majority who don't like it, but i no there are many who also don't mind it and also support it. bottom line is valve gives you the option to choose where you want to play, without getting involved. i just wished they didn't incorporate an import function :P On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Ronny Schedel i...@ronny-schedel.de wrote: They already tried to delist bad servers, but they did the wrong. They have resources to satisfy players. Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ They probably have other things to do, like, you know, making games. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of AnAkIn . Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:11 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Your message to hlds awaits moderator approval Looks like my message was not sent. Trying again: Make the blacklist work with the server scoring thing. When someone blacklist a servers, it looses points. Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
High five for branching the topic! Thanks, - Saul. 2010/1/7 Mike Stiehm mikesti...@gmail.com I have 60,000 people in my group ill add everyons elses server but my own lol Its the same thing as posting a list on the internet. Your still giving comtroll of your server list to some 3rd party. Now I'm off to add a bunch of random servers to that online blacklist.. hmm anyone that I don't like? Let me think here Allan Button abut...@netaccess.ca wrote: Don't know about you, but I am part of my clans group on steam communities. It would be handy to be able to subscribe to a bad list that is pushed out by our server group. Maybe the option to toggle if you want to subscribe to the list for each group you are in. Players could then join a Ban Fake Player Count server group, and pull in the list of bans from that group. Our clan leader could ban servers in the group, so that I don't end up playing on a server that has been delisted by our other members. This would give the 'opt-in' 'opt-out' control that some users would prefer over a global server delisting. Allan -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Shizzle Nizzle Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:59 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available i think they are just giving people the option to remove servers they dont want to see on their server browser for whatever reason it maybe, they are giving the user the freedom of choice to choose their gaming experience, for me its instant respawn 2fort servers off my list :D lol. if people really had a problem with fakeclient servers that much.. they wouldnt play on it, they wouldn't be popular, and they wouldnt such have huge communities backing it. im sure there is also a good majority who don't like it, but i no there are many who also don't mind it and also support it. bottom line is valve gives you the option to choose where you want to play, without getting involved. i just wished they didn't incorporate an import function :P On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Ronny Schedel i...@ronny-schedel.de wrote: They already tried to delist bad servers, but they did the wrong. They have resources to satisfy players. Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ They probably have other things to do, like, you know, making games. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of AnAkIn . Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:11 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Your message to hlds awaits moderator approval Looks like my message was not sent. Trying again: Make the blacklist work with the server scoring thing. When someone blacklist a servers, it looses points. Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
Welcome to the HLDS list! -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Saul Rennison Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:30 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available High five for branching the topic! Thanks, - Saul. 2010/1/7 Mike Stiehm mikesti...@gmail.com I have 60,000 people in my group ill add everyons elses server but my own lol Its the same thing as posting a list on the internet. Your still giving comtroll of your server list to some 3rd party. Now I'm off to add a bunch of random servers to that online blacklist.. hmm anyone that I don't like? Let me think here Allan Button abut...@netaccess.ca wrote: Don't know about you, but I am part of my clans group on steam communities. It would be handy to be able to subscribe to a bad list that is pushed out by our server group. Maybe the option to toggle if you want to subscribe to the list for each group you are in. Players could then join a Ban Fake Player Count server group, and pull in the list of bans from that group. Our clan leader could ban servers in the group, so that I don't end up playing on a server that has been delisted by our other members. This would give the 'opt-in' 'opt-out' control that some users would prefer over a global server delisting. Allan -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Shizzle Nizzle Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:59 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available i think they are just giving people the option to remove servers they dont want to see on their server browser for whatever reason it maybe, they are giving the user the freedom of choice to choose their gaming experience, for me its instant respawn 2fort servers off my list :D lol. if people really had a problem with fakeclient servers that much.. they wouldnt play on it, they wouldn't be popular, and they wouldnt such have huge communities backing it. im sure there is also a good majority who don't like it, but i no there are many who also don't mind it and also support it. bottom line is valve gives you the option to choose where you want to play, without getting involved. i just wished they didn't incorporate an import function :P On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Ronny Schedel i...@ronny-schedel.de wrote: They already tried to delist bad servers, but they did the wrong. They have resources to satisfy players. Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ They probably have other things to do, like, you know, making games. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of AnAkIn . Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:11 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Your message to hlds awaits moderator approval Looks like my message was not sent. Trying again: Make the blacklist work with the server scoring thing. When someone blacklist a servers, it looses points. Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] [TF2] Server always crashes when update comes out
My servers are crashing fairly frequently. A lot of clients are getting random
disconnects as well.
Thank you,
Alec Sanger
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 17:47:57 -0500
From: roadhous...@gmail.com
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: [hlds] [TF2] Server always crashes when update comes out
Our server always crashes when steam releases a new update.
I checked the log files and I do not see any error messages.
These are the server logs right before the crash... Does anyone know why
server would crash?
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:41: Team Red final score 1 with 15 players
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:41: Team Blue final score 3 with 15 players
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:44: Icee230STEAM_0:0:16775752Red disconnected
(reason Disconnect by user.)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: [META] Loaded 0 plugins (1 already loaded)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: [META] Loaded 0 plugins (1 already loaded)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: [META] Loaded 0 plugins (1 already loaded)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: Helpless Puppy211STEAM_0:1:25903839
disconnected (reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: pancho244STEAM_0:1:16373728 disconnected
(reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: Dekapon207STEAM_0:1:19774363 disconnected
(reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: Jellybones243STEAM_0:1:9458271 disconnected
(reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: gibson5413242STEAM_0:1:5378837 disconnected
(reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: sykprime226STEAM_0:1:19945111 disconnected
(reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: RooFY DreW239STEAM_0:0:9736030 disconnected
(reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: Blasty200STEAM_0:0:17548011 disconnected
(reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: tru_GUN-GINEER199STEAM_0:0:14097181
disconnected (reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: {.[:].|ŊǾǾߣΣŦ|.[:].}224STEAM_0:0:14824592
disconnected (reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: Blasty Blasta202STEAM_0:0:17440614
disconnected (reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: ponchon237STEAM_0:0:16411718 disconnected
(reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: an_idiot2249STEAM_0:1:29249066 disconnected
(reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: |TerrorBears|
johny.blazin220STEAM_0:0:19145898 disconnected (reason Server
shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: Demisol186STEAM_0:1:21164732 disconnected
(reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: Burt Reynolds245STEAM_0:1:5062826
disconnected (reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: thiagofx248STEAM_0:1:27461195 disconnected
(reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: Gentle Domestic Duck219STEAM_0:0:26363098
disconnected (reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: North Korea is Best
Korea215STEAM_0:1:16404200 disconnected (reason Server shutting
down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: =Hl2Mx=BAXTER DNR221STEAM_0:1:23262967
disconnected (reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: eti.critokill235STEAM_0:1:27315613
disconnected (reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: [SKC]RealWolf234STEAM_0:0:6076147
disconnected (reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: Beghty192STEAM_0:1:18610624 disconnected
(reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: Moe-jave Moe-havy233STEAM_0:1:3030497
disconnected (reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: Mister Bear246STEAM_0:0:12380007
disconnected (reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: bobby joy (AO)240STEAM_0:1:25171155
disconnected (reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: [EA]XEdgarxl228STEAM_0:1:21905403
disconnected (reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: (GZ) LemonLizzard247STEAM_0:0:25778236
disconnected (reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: atf.140227STEAM_0:1:25088079 disconnected
(reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: server_message: quit
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: Log file closed
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Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
If an admin for any group I participate in did that, I bet you'd soon the group empty of players, or everyone would choose not to subscribe the that groups banning list. You should add 192.168.0.0/16, 172.16.0.0/12, 10.0.0.0/8 to the block list, let's put an end to those LAN gamers! Anybody feeling crafty enough to write a curl script to loop over all subnets ;) Allan -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mike Stiehm Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 12:25 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available I have 60,000 people in my group ill add everyons elses server but my own lol Its the same thing as posting a list on the internet. Your still giving comtroll of your server list to some 3rd party. Now I'm off to add a bunch of random servers to that online blacklist.. hmm anyone that I don't like? Let me think here Allan Button abut...@netaccess.ca wrote: Don't know about you, but I am part of my clans group on steam communities. It would be handy to be able to subscribe to a bad list that is pushed out by our server group. Maybe the option to toggle if you want to subscribe to the list for each group you are in. Players could then join a Ban Fake Player Count server group, and pull in the list of bans from that group. Our clan leader could ban servers in the group, so that I don't end up playing on a server that has been delisted by our other members. This would give the 'opt-in' 'opt-out' control that some users would prefer over a global server delisting. Allan -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Shizzle Nizzle Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:59 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available i think they are just giving people the option to remove servers they dont want to see on their server browser for whatever reason it maybe, they are giving the user the freedom of choice to choose their gaming experience, for me its instant respawn 2fort servers off my list :D lol. if people really had a problem with fakeclient servers that much.. they wouldnt play on it, they wouldn't be popular, and they wouldnt such have huge communities backing it. im sure there is also a good majority who don't like it, but i no there are many who also don't mind it and also support it. bottom line is valve gives you the option to choose where you want to play, without getting involved. i just wished they didn't incorporate an import function :P On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Ronny Schedel i...@ronny-schedel.dewrote: They already tried to delist bad servers, but they did the wrong. They have resources to satisfy players. Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ They probably have other things to do, like, you know, making games. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of AnAkIn . Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:11 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Your message to hlds awaits moderator approval Looks like my message was not sent. Trying again: Make the blacklist work with the server scoring thing. When someone blacklist a servers, it looses points. Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your
Re: [hlds] [TF2] Server always crashes when update comes out
yea my clients got a No Steam Logon again, tends to happen when an update
comes out, the server stays up, also my server was not displaying the your
server is out fo date message which i found interesting
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Alec Sanger eclyp...@hotmail.com wrote:
My servers are crashing fairly frequently. A lot of clients are getting
random disconnects as well.
Thank you,
Alec Sanger
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 17:47:57 -0500
From: roadhous...@gmail.com
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: [hlds] [TF2] Server always crashes when update comes out
Our server always crashes when steam releases a new update.
I checked the log files and I do not see any error messages.
These are the server logs right before the crash... Does anyone know why
server would crash?
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:41: Team Red final score 1 with 15 players
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:41: Team Blue final score 3 with 15 players
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:44: Icee230STEAM_0:0:16775752Red
disconnected
(reason Disconnect by user.)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: [META] Loaded 0 plugins (1 already loaded)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: [META] Loaded 0 plugins (1 already loaded)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: [META] Loaded 0 plugins (1 already loaded)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: Helpless Puppy211STEAM_0:1:25903839
disconnected (reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: pancho244STEAM_0:1:16373728 disconnected
(reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: Dekapon207STEAM_0:1:19774363
disconnected
(reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: Jellybones243STEAM_0:1:9458271
disconnected
(reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: gibson5413242STEAM_0:1:5378837
disconnected
(reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: sykprime226STEAM_0:1:19945111
disconnected
(reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: RooFY DreW239STEAM_0:0:9736030
disconnected
(reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: Blasty200STEAM_0:0:17548011 disconnected
(reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: tru_GUN-GINEER199STEAM_0:0:14097181
disconnected (reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45:
{.[:].|ŊǾǾߣΣŦ|.[:].}224STEAM_0:0:14824592
disconnected (reason Server shutting down)
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: Blasty Blasta202STEAM_0:0:17440614
disconnected (reason Server shutting down)
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L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: server_message: quit
L 01/06/2010 - 16:42:45: Log file closed
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Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
I mailed that exact idea to Valve before they even made their current delisting public but they don't seem to be interested despite already having all the needed pieces thanks to Steam. On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 6:23 PM, Saul Rennison saul.renni...@gmail.com wrote: Not being funny, but fakeclients are unbelievably easy to detect by Steam. It could get a list of connected players via A2S query, then Steam backend asks the server for a list of connected Steam users, then Steam querys each one of these reported users to see if they are connected to that server. If some of the users don't exist, or are offline, or are connected to another server, then it's obvious that the server is reporting fake clients. Thanks, - Saul. 2010/1/7 Peter Powell li...@ppowell.co.uk Or adjusting the Sandman settings for the Nth time. ;D ~Peter Powell Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ They probably have other things to do, like, you know, making games. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of AnAkIn . Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:11 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Your message to hlds awaits moderator approval Looks like my message was not sent. Trying again: Make the blacklist work with the server scoring thing. When someone blacklist a servers, it looses points. Or Valve could just check themselves and get a list of all fake clients servers, and delist them for good. That could have been done ages ago :/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
*looks to nsleeper* On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 7:51 AM, Ronny Schedel i...@ronny-schedel.de wrote: So Poor admins will include all good servers... Which dumbass made this website? http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ 2010/1/7 Shane Arnold clontar...@iinet.net.au But *you* are not *everyone*. It only takes one malicious/incorrect entry to start screwing things up. On 7/01/2010 10:42 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: If you have a centralized blacklist that people trust, maintain it and verify submitted servers to prevent abuse, I think it's better than not having a blacklist at all. This is also why I would only blacklist malicious servers, it's not too difficult to verify malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Don Williams Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 9:33 AM To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available That's the damn truth.. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Peter Powell Sent: 2010-01-07 9:12 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The issue with allowing people to import blocklists is that they will rush on Google and use the first blocklist they find. That blocklist will most likely be full of servers that $RANDOM_LUSER added to get back at $SERVER_OWNER for banning them for mic spamming. ~Peter Powell Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: Yeah I saw that, but generally I support the idea of a centralized blacklist. But only with really malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of DontWannaName! Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:36 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Hey look Voogru, you are on that list too for running 24+ max slots lol :P 24+ max players is part of the game now so that makes little sense... 67.213.213.107voogru.com24+ Max Players On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Matt Hoffman lord.matt.hoff...@gmail.comwrote: There's already http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ which is an active list. I believe it is designed for Peer Guardian/Peer Block/etc, so I second the option to import IP's and not have it be formatted. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald voo...@voogru.com wrote: The issue with the fake bot pings would probably have become more of an issue now that bots are becoming more available. Malicious server operators could disguise the valve tf2 bots as real players. Combine that with fake players in queries and you have one more problem to deal with. I've seen some of these servers actually disable the status command so you can't see their BOT steamids as well. With the creation of blacklists hopefully some people come up with a decent blacklist. I would have liked to see the blacklist option be able to import IP's from a website (even if it's just a txt file on the website) like PeerGuardian, perhaps it can be in a future update. -voogru -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Dislexsick Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 6:44 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The update states it is people changing the word BOT in the ping column on the scoreboard... This does not address fake player counts, a far more widespread and malicious tactic imo. Cheers, Joshua Bost -Original Message- From: Andy Cgrossk...@flotgaming.net Sent: Thursday, 7 January 2010 09:37 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The bot issue you are refering to has to do with server admins running fake clients plugins. These report more players in the server than there actually is. Apparently Valve has come up with bots that actually play the game, just like in L4D/L4D2. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Josh Bostdislexs...@dislexsick.com wrote: Tuned scoreboard logic to guard against malicious server operators spoofing bot pings to hide the BOT tag. As a follower of the SPUF I have seen threads about servers with bots with simulated pings, one just yesterday, in-fact. After reading this, the consensus seemed to be that although some people felt 'ripped off' it
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
For what it's worth, I actually already messaged the guy via Steam and said more or less said the same sort of thing to him. He seems to be at least somewhat intelligent and aware of the first google result phenomenon that someone said earlier. He also said he is getting rid of the Poor Admins tag since it is total bullshit and, his words, having it has caused him nothing but trouble. Though I agree, making it real easy for every yahoo who owns the game to Import a black list is a Real Bad Idea. On Thu, 2010-01-07 at 16:51 +0100, Ronny Schedel wrote: So Poor admins will include all good servers... Which dumbass made this website? http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ 2010/1/7 Shane Arnold clontar...@iinet.net.au But *you* are not *everyone*. It only takes one malicious/incorrect entry to start screwing things up. On 7/01/2010 10:42 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: If you have a centralized blacklist that people trust, maintain it and verify submitted servers to prevent abuse, I think it's better than not having a blacklist at all. This is also why I would only blacklist malicious servers, it's not too difficult to verify malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Don Williams Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 9:33 AM To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available That's the damn truth.. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Peter Powell Sent: 2010-01-07 9:12 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The issue with allowing people to import blocklists is that they will rush on Google and use the first blocklist they find. That blocklist will most likely be full of servers that $RANDOM_LUSER added to get back at $SERVER_OWNER for banning them for mic spamming. ~Peter Powell Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: Yeah I saw that, but generally I support the idea of a centralized blacklist. But only with really malicious servers. - voogru. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of DontWannaName! Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:36 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Hey look Voogru, you are on that list too for running 24+ max slots lol :P 24+ max players is part of the game now so that makes little sense... 67.213.213.107voogru.com24+ Max Players On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Matt Hoffman lord.matt.hoff...@gmail.comwrote: There's already http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ which is an active list. I believe it is designed for Peer Guardian/Peer Block/etc, so I second the option to import IP's and not have it be formatted. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald voo...@voogru.com wrote: The issue with the fake bot pings would probably have become more of an issue now that bots are becoming more available. Malicious server operators could disguise the valve tf2 bots as real players. Combine that with fake players in queries and you have one more problem to deal with. I've seen some of these servers actually disable the status command so you can't see their BOT steamids as well. With the creation of blacklists hopefully some people come up with a decent blacklist. I would have liked to see the blacklist option be able to import IP's from a website (even if it's just a txt file on the website) like PeerGuardian, perhaps it can be in a future update. -voogru -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Dislexsick Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 6:44 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The update states it is people changing the word BOT in the ping column on the scoreboard... This does not address fake player counts, a far more widespread and malicious tactic imo. Cheers, Joshua Bost -Original Message- From: Andy Cgrossk...@flotgaming.net Sent: Thursday, 7 January 2010 09:37 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available The bot issue you are refering to has to do with server admins running fake
[hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
An update for Team Fortress 2 is now available. Please run hldsupdatetool to receive the update. The specific changes include: - Fixed grounded players receiving falling damage from Force-A-Nature shots directly above them - Fixed the Force-A-Nature firing fewer pellets when tf_use_fixed_weaponspreads was 1 - Updated the achievement icon for the May I Cut In? Spy achievement to match the achievement description Jason ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
Required? Jason Ruymen jas...@valvesoftware.com wrote: An update for Team Fortress 2 is now available. Please run hldsupdatetool to receive the update. The specific changes include: - Fixed grounded players receiving falling damage from Force-A-Nature shots directly above them - Fixed the Force-A-Nature firing fewer pellets when tf_use_fixed_weaponspreads was 1 - Updated the achievement icon for the May I Cut In? Spy achievement to match the achievement description Jason ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
Does this fix the crashing serverside? On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Jason Ruymen jas...@valvesoftware.comwrote: An update for Team Fortress 2 is now available. Please run hldsupdatetool to receive the update. The specific changes include: - Fixed grounded players receiving falling damage from Force-A-Nature shots directly above them - Fixed the Force-A-Nature firing fewer pellets when tf_use_fixed_weaponspreads was 1 - Updated the achievement icon for the May I Cut In? Spy achievement to match the achievement description Jason ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
Only required updates will raise the version number On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:08 PM, MONDO mondo...@gmail.com wrote: Odd that the version does not change, even after updating the files. Shouldn't it have gone to version 1.0.8.0 from 1.0.7.9? On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Jason Ruymen jas...@valvesoftware.com wrote: An update for Team Fortress 2 is now available. Please run hldsupdatetool to receive the update. The specific changes include: - Fixed grounded players receiving falling damage from Force-A-Nature shots directly above them - Fixed the Force-A-Nature firing fewer pellets when tf_use_fixed_weaponspreads was 1 - Updated the achievement icon for the May I Cut In? Spy achievement to match the achievement description Jason ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
Not sure when it stopped working but is there an issue with 'the sandman'? I have a bat and ball in hand though it doesn't work (no pon intended), I'm not able to hit the ball. The animation never starts, occassionally when Im trying to hit the ball I can hear the crit sound though thats it. All I can do is swing the bat. From: Jason Ruymen jas...@valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com hlds@list.valvesoftware.com; Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com; hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 5:27:38 PM Subject: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available An update for Team Fortress 2 is now available. Please run hldsupdatetool to receive the update. The specific changes include: - Fixed grounded players receiving falling damage from Force-A-Nature shots directly above them - Fixed the Force-A-Nature firing fewer pellets when tf_use_fixed_weaponspreads was 1 - Updated the achievement icon for the May I Cut In? Spy achievement to match the achievement description Jason ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
Right click? -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Robert Whelan Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:42 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available Not sure when it stopped working but is there an issue with 'the sandman'? I have a bat and ball in hand though it doesn't work (no pon intended), I'm not able to hit the ball. The animation never starts, occassionally when Im trying to hit the ball I can hear the crit sound though thats it. All I can do is swing the bat. From: Jason Ruymen jas...@valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com hlds@list.valvesoftware.com; Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com; hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 5:27:38 PM Subject: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available An update for Team Fortress 2 is now available. Please run hldsupdatetool to receive the update. The specific changes include: - Fixed grounded players receiving falling damage from Force-A-Nature shots directly above them - Fixed the Force-A-Nature firing fewer pellets when tf_use_fixed_weaponspreads was 1 - Updated the achievement icon for the May I Cut In? Spy achievement to match the achievement description Jason ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
You do know that primary-fire now swings the bat while secondary-fire hits the ball, right? - Peter On Jan 7, 2010, at 19:42 , Robert Whelan wrote: Not sure when it stopped working but is there an issue with 'the sandman'? I have a bat and ball in hand though it doesn't work (no pon intended), I'm not able to hit the ball. The animation never starts, occassionally when Im trying to hit the ball I can hear the crit sound though thats it. All I can do is swing the bat. From: Jason Ruymen jas...@valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com hlds@list.valvesoftware.com; Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com; hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 5:27:38 PM Subject: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available An update for Team Fortress 2 is now available. Please run hldsupdatetool to receive the update. The specific changes include: - Fixed grounded players receiving falling damage from Force-A-Nature shots directly above them - Fixed the Force-A-Nature firing fewer pellets when tf_use_fixed_weaponspreads was 1 - Updated the achievement icon for the May I Cut In? Spy achievement to match the achievement description Jason ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
This is what they meant by fixed the Sandman. Works for me! On Thu, 2010-01-07 at 17:42 -0800, Robert Whelan wrote: Not sure when it stopped working but is there an issue with 'the sandman'? I have a bat and ball in hand though it doesn't work (no pon intended), I'm not able to hit the ball. The animation never starts, occassionally when Im trying to hit the ball I can hear the crit sound though thats it. All I can do is swing the bat. From: Jason Ruymen jas...@valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com hlds@list.valvesoftware.com; Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com; hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 5:27:38 PM Subject: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available An update for Team Fortress 2 is now available. Please run hldsupdatetool to receive the update. The specific changes include: - Fixed grounded players receiving falling damage from Force-A-Nature shots directly above them - Fixed the Force-A-Nature firing fewer pellets when tf_use_fixed_weaponspreads was 1 - Updated the achievement icon for the May I Cut In? Spy achievement to match the achievement description Jason ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
Ah yes, thx. I don't get to play much though I see what you mean. I was used to just hitting primary fire button to do both tasks. Didn't think to try secondary... I don't remember seeing that change noted other then saying it was fixed. Thx again... From: HLDS peter-h...@jerde.net To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 7:44:37 PM Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available You do know that primary-fire now swings the bat while secondary-fire hits the ball, right? - Peter On Jan 7, 2010, at 19:42 , Robert Whelan wrote: Not sure when it stopped working but is there an issue with 'the sandman'? I have a bat and ball in hand though it doesn't work (no pon intended), I'm not able to hit the ball. The animation never starts, occassionally when Im trying to hit the ball I can hear the crit sound though thats it. All I can do is swing the bat. From: Jason Ruymen jas...@valvesoftware.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com hlds@list.valvesoftware.com; Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com; hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 5:27:38 PM Subject: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available An update for Team Fortress 2 is now available. Please run hldsupdatetool to receive the update. The specific changes include: - Fixed grounded players receiving falling damage from Force-A-Nature shots directly above them - Fixed the Force-A-Nature firing fewer pellets when tf_use_fixed_weaponspreads was 1 - Updated the achievement icon for the May I Cut In? Spy achievement to match the achievement description Jason ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
