[Hpr] HPR is moving to new servers

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

We are in the process of moving the HPR project to another server. The 
website will be moving today, while the mail system will be moving early 
next week.


You may experience some issues during the transition period.

If you need to contact us and the email address 
ad...@hackerpublicradio.org is not available, then you can also contact 
us at admin@*hobby*publicradio.org


We'll also be monitoring Mastodon https://botsin.space/@hpr, and Matrix 
https://matrix.to/#/#hpr:matrix.org


--
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
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Re: [Hpr] Policy Change, Call to action for Host to Show ratio

[Ken Fallon]

I think it should be possible to keep "Ho No News", by changing the way 
the news sites are referenced. If you have a look at how ThreatWire by 
Shannon Morse <https://snubsie.com/threatwire/> does it, you can see how 
she navigates this issues. She paraphrases articles and keeps direct 
quotes to an absolute minimum.


I'm not sure how much additional work this would be, so another approach 
might be to quote sites that have a CC compatible license. Many 
government run sites required threats to be logged publicly using an 
open license.


If people could help out by tracking down some of these resources for 
SGOTI that would help.


--
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


On 2023-05-27 23:57, Kevin O'Brien wrote:
I'm a strong believer in the value of licenses like Creative Commons, 
and I take them seriously. If there is no way to continue the Oh No 
news without violating the license, then as much as I love it, I would 
vote to stop it. Is there absolutely no way of continuing it without a 
license violation, though? Could a simple change in the show bring it 
into compliance. As far as I am aware, you cannot copyright facts, and 
much of what SGOTI does in this show is to state that such-and-such 
happened. Where I would think a problem would arise is in direct 
quoting of someone else's copyrighted material, and even that can be a 
gray area if the source is cited and only a little bit is quoted. So 
my preference would be to look into how SGOTI can continue his show 
while being in legal compliance. But if that is not possible, then I 
reluctantly come down on the side of license compliance.


Regards,


--
Kevin B. O'Brien
z <mailto:ahuka5...@gmail.com>wil...@zwilnik.com
http://about.me/zwilnik


  “People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should
  be afraid of their people.” - Alan Moore, /V for Vendetta/



On Sat, May 27, 2023 at 8:25 AM Ken Fallon  wrote:

Hi All,

Can you please respond to this policy change, as it stands this is
something that we should not implement.

Also please send in some shows this weekend as we're going to be
moving to the static site soon and it would be great to have the
queue full.

Ken.


    On 2023-05-12 11:14, Ken Fallon wrote:


Hi All,

First , *w**e need shows immediately* as there is an empty queue
next week, and the number of Emergency/Reserve shows are also
dwindling. So please finish that show you were thinking of
submitting and send it in. If you don't care when it's released
please put "Use as Emergency show" in the show notes for now.

... hold music while you do that ...

I am concerned about the future of HPR, as a project where the
shows are produced by the community. At this rate we cease to be
a bar camp style podcast and become one where the shows are
provided by a rotating team of "regulars".

Ideally we would like it so that every show is contributed by a
different host, giving a 1:1 ratio between show and host. So far
this year all but 4 of the submissions are from hosts who
submitted more than one show, a 3:1 ratio. Ahuka aside, the
majority are as a result of kindhearted hosts who contribute
shows at the last minute to fill the vacant slots.

To make this problem more visible I would like to introduce the
following Scheduling Guideline "*No host should submit any more
than one show in a two week period.*" Of course these are
guidelines etc etc., but it should still allow prolific hosts to
submit shows while not masking the underlying issue that we have
yet to address.

Which is: We need new hosts, but we also need old hosts who have
not submitted shows this year to submit a show.

How do we solve this problem ?

-- 
Regards,


Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
ID
Host
Total

159 HPR Volunteers  12
198 Ahuka   9
391 Some Guy On The Internet8
318 Archer72    7
282 Mike Ray5
30  Ken Fallon  5
326 Brian in Ohio   5
36  operat0r3
365 Bookewyrmm  3
225 Dave Morriss3
401 Mechatroniac3
415 enistello   2
407 Celeste 2
268 Andrew Conway   2
152 Claudio Miranda 2
293 Rho`n   2
416 screwtape   2
342 norrist 2
238 Jon Kulp2
375 minnix  2
201 MrX 2
408 Stache_AF   1
383 Paul Quirk  1
209 David Whitman   1
377 Zen_Floater21




___
Hpr

Re: [Hpr] Policy Change, Call to action for Host to Show ratio

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

Can you please respond to this policy change, as it stands this is 
something that we should not implement.


Also please send in some shows this weekend as we're going to be moving 
to the static site soon and it would be great to have the queue full.


Ken.


On 2023-05-12 11:14, Ken Fallon wrote:


Hi All,

First , *w**e need shows immediately* as there is an empty queue next 
week, and the number of Emergency/Reserve shows are also dwindling. So 
please finish that show you were thinking of submitting and send it 
in. If you don't care when it's released please put "Use as Emergency 
show" in the show notes for now.


... hold music while you do that ...

I am concerned about the future of HPR, as a project where the shows 
are produced by the community. At this rate we cease to be a bar camp 
style podcast and become one where the shows are provided by a 
rotating team of "regulars".


Ideally we would like it so that every show is contributed by a 
different host, giving a 1:1 ratio between show and host. So far this 
year all but 4 of the submissions are from hosts who submitted more 
than one show, a 3:1 ratio. Ahuka aside, the majority are as a result 
of kindhearted hosts who contribute shows at the last minute to fill 
the vacant slots.


To make this problem more visible I would like to introduce the 
following Scheduling Guideline "*No host should submit any more than 
one show in a two week period.*" Of course these are guidelines etc 
etc., but it should still allow prolific hosts to submit shows while 
not masking the underlying issue that we have yet to address.


Which is: We need new hosts, but we also need old hosts who have not 
submitted shows this year to submit a show.


How do we solve this problem ?

--
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
ID
Host
Total

159 HPR Volunteers  12
198 Ahuka   9
391 Some Guy On The Internet8
318 Archer727
282     Mike Ray5
30  Ken Fallon  5
326 Brian in Ohio   5
36  operat0r3
365 Bookewyrmm  3
225 Dave Morriss3
401 Mechatroniac3
415 enistello   2
407 Celeste 2
268 Andrew Conway   2
152 Claudio Miranda 2
293 Rho`n   2
416 screwtape   2
342 norrist 2
238 Jon Kulp2
375 minnix  2
201 MrX 2
408 Stache_AF   1
383 Paul Quirk  1
209 David Whitman   1
377 Zen_Floater21


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Re: [Hpr] Community request (input needed).

[Ken Fallon]

This is the issue I posted on the HPR channel. 
https://matrix.to/#/#hpr:matrix.org



/@SGOTI: While I do personally love your news shows, as a janitor I 
have a few concerns about carrying them on HPR.//

//
//The shows represent a problem as they are reporting/quoting on someone 
else's copyrighted work. Therefore it represents a grey area as to if it 
can be released under Creative Commons or not. We require that "you have 
permission to redistribute your show in its entirety", 
https://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#permission. 
While some jurisdictions may allow commenting on/quoting/referencing on 
other peoples work, some also do not - so we are opting for certainty.//

//
//Also, we have had experience with two other news show series on HPR in 
the past. One by finux which petered out, and the other by Talk Geek to 
Me. That show was syndicated, and was removed from HPR following 
discussions on the Mail List. It prompted the rule 
https://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#syndication. At 
the time there were questions as to the long term value of these shows, 
as most of our shows get ½ of their audience in the long tail (way after 
they are aired), and how well the fit in with the idea of a community 
podcast dedicated to sharing knowledge.//

//
//Opinions may have changed over time, so I would suggest that if you 
are intending on doing an news show you should contact the mail list for 
community approval./



The issue about syndication does not apply here, I was pointing out 
other issues with news shows that arose during the discussions.  Sorry 
for any misunderstanding.


I cannot copy and paste the discussion been held on the matrix channel 
without getting everyone's permission individually. So I've asked for 
the discussions to be held here.


They make the point that Wikipedia quote non free articles, but in their 
case they use their own copy to refer to the factual event. While the 
news shows here are copying the sites content verbatim. While I may not 
agree, there is a growing belief that news stories need to be paid for:


- https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56101859 Google to pay Murdoch's 
News Corporation for stories

- https://gizmodo.com/google-news-pay-sites-facebook-eu-revenue-1848911440
- 
https://www.investopedia.com/microsoft-msft-believes-tech-giants-should-pay-for-news-5112432





On 2023-05-19 16:30, Yung Lyun wrote:

Hello HPR Community.

I’m requesting assistance from the HPR community. A show I produce and 
upload to HPR must be paused until we have the communities input; 
nothing too bad just need more input before continuing.


First, I create and release the “Oh No! News” on HPR. It has been 
brought to my attention that the shows content requires further review 
and must be changed to comply with HPR’s community guidelines 
(https://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#permission). 
Some of the shows contain direct quotes and **not** all jurisdictions 
support “fair use”. This is a flaw/failure on my part and **if** the 
show is allowed to continue, it must be brought inline with HPR 
community guidelines.


Secondly, syndication concerns must be addressed 
(https://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#syndication). 
When I created the HPR News, now the “Oh No! News”, I did **not** 
considered syndication; I had no interest. Let me be very clear, at 
**NO** point do I plan to seek syndication; I’m not interested. The 
“Oh No! News” was/is created for the HPR community as a product we can 
share, enjoy, and participate in without any limits. It is my way of 
“giving back” to the community that has provided loads of information 
and entertainment for me. I’ll be releasing a show with more 
information on the subject soon.


Last, If it must go, then let it go. I’ve enjoyed creating the “Oh No! 
News”, but I enjoy HPR more. If the show threatens the community or 
isn’t accepted by the community I have no problem letting it go. No 
decisions have been made and this is a call for all members of the HPR 
community to weigh in on the matter. I ask that you voice your 
concerns and/or provide any feedback at your earliest convenience.


Thanks,

SGOTI (Some Guy On The Internet).



--
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
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Re: [Hpr] Policy Change, Call to action for Host to Show ratio

[Ken Fallon]

We still need more shows from people that have not posted this year.

What appears to be a "recording spree", is in fact people rushing to 
post something to the queue to urgently fill a vacant slot. This is 
undesirable for many reasons:


 * Chasing the queue leads to burnout. The stress of monitoring and
   filling upcoming empty slots eats into one's personal time. What was
   supposed to be a hobby becomes a chore.
 * We have already had comments that the quality of these shows suffer
   as a result.
 * Human nature results in people not posting a show when there are no
   free slots in the coming month, versus when there are slots
   available. Despite both queues containing the same number of shows.
 * People stopping listening to HPR because the feed is full of the one
   host that the listener doesn't like.
 * HPR is a community podcast. That means more people need to
   contribute. It should not be down to the few to keep the project going.

Moving shows around leads to confusion, dissatisfaction, and complaints. 
This is why the Janitors now always ask permission to move shows, which 
causes a delay in processing all the other shows. Given someone has  
already have gone to the effort of recording a show, I think it's 
reasonable to ask people to scroll down a bit before posting their next 
show.


For those hosts that genuinely don't care when their shows are released, 
then we can add an option to post to the "Don't care/Reserve/Emergency 
Show" queue so that vacant slots are filled from there. That way the 
hosts intentions is made clear from the outset, and the Janitors know 
where they stand.


We need to at least try this two week spacing for hosts because I think 
it will help balance the slow continuous trickle going out with the 
bursts of shows coming in, and will make the actual state of the queue 
more visible.


--
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon

On 2023-05-15 22:20, Klaatu wrote:

I agree with minnix. Fewer rules make for easier compliance for the content
creator.

If we want to maximize incoming content, we should take what we can, when we
can, whenever the content provider wants.

If that means we have a week of just one host on a recording spree, that's OK.
People control their own playlist. They can mix it up as they prefer.

If we want to reserve the right to move episodes around as *we* see fit, then
let's stop asking people to reserve episode numbers and just say that content
gets scheduled as the scheduler sees fit.

We get to make the rules. If people don't like how HPR operates, then they
don't have to submit shows. There are lots of places to post stuff on the
Internet. We're just one place. Let's make it easy for people to create
content for HPR (and easy for HPR to publish daily, which is its stated goal.)

On Monday, May 15, 2023 7:51:44 PM NZST Ken Fallon wrote:

Hi All,

Thanks to all who sent in shows, but we still need more shows. I am
specifically looking for contribution from people who do not have
2023-??-?? as their "Last Show" on this page
https://hackerpublicradio.org/correspondents.php

---

The following is taken with permission from the HPR matrix room.
https://matrix.to/#/#hpr:matrix.org

     /From: minnix//
 //@Ken Fallon (PA7KEN, G5KEN): if the survival of HPR depends solely
 on new hosts, then you might as well fold the show. If the survival
 of the show depends on just getting shows period with a smattering
 of new hosts thrown in throughout the year, then it's good. If it
 were me I would encourage everyone, old and new hosts, to send in
 lots of shows. If you want the queue to be empty just to prove that
 HPR needs new hosts, I bet that's easily accomplished, but I don't
 see that changing the nature of reality, ie: it is what it is./

And my reply

 if the survival of HPR depends solely on new hosts, then you
 might as well fold the show.

 Well that was the position we had HPR in back in 2010, and while
 it's hard we managed to not miss a day since.

 If the survival of the show depends on just getting shows period
 with a smattering of new hosts thrown in throughout the year,
 then it's good.

 Yes this is a more realistic situation.

 If it were me I would encourage everyone, old and new hosts, to
 send in lots of shows.

 Excellent idea and thanks for volunteering ;-) One word of warning
 though is that some of the previous hosts do not like to be
 contacted. You may want to consider sending reminders on
 anniversaries, such as 5 years since the last show.

 If you want the queue to be empty just to prove that HPR needs
 new hosts, I bet that's easily accomplished, but I don't see
 that changing the nature of reality, ie: it is what it is.

 Well it's the difference between "@SGOTI and @Arch

Re: [Hpr] Policy Change, Call to action for Host to Show ratio

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

Thanks to all who sent in shows, but we still need more shows. I am 
specifically looking for contribution from people who do not have 
2023-??-?? as their "Last Show" on this page 
https://hackerpublicradio.org/correspondents.php


---

The following is taken with permission from the HPR matrix room. 
https://matrix.to/#/#hpr:matrix.org


   /From: minnix//
   //@Ken Fallon (PA7KEN, G5KEN): if the survival of HPR depends solely
   on new hosts, then you might as well fold the show. If the survival
   of the show depends on just getting shows period with a smattering
   of new hosts thrown in throughout the year, then it's good. If it
   were me I would encourage everyone, old and new hosts, to send in
   lots of shows. If you want the queue to be empty just to prove that
   HPR needs new hosts, I bet that's easily accomplished, but I don't
   see that changing the nature of reality, ie: it is what it is./

And my reply

   if the survival of HPR depends solely on new hosts, then you
   might as well fold the show.

   Well that was the position we had HPR in back in 2010, and while
   it's hard we managed to not miss a day since.

   If the survival of the show depends on just getting shows period
   with a smattering of new hosts thrown in throughout the year,
   then it's good.

   Yes this is a more realistic situation.

   If it were me I would encourage everyone, old and new hosts, to
   send in lots of shows.

   Excellent idea and thanks for volunteering ;-) One word of warning
   though is that some of the previous hosts do not like to be
   contacted. You may want to consider sending reminders on
   anniversaries, such as 5 years since the last show.

   If you want the queue to be empty just to prove that HPR needs
   new hosts, I bet that's easily accomplished, but I don't see
   that changing the nature of reality, ie: it is what it is.

   Well it's the difference between "@SGOTI and @Archer72 seem to be on
   a recording spree" and "What another Emergency Show. I need to send
   in some shows." Same reality but different effect.

   The two week rule is intended to make queue management a easier, as
   it will tackle the feast and famine of the submissions.

   Call for shows work, but there are problems with it.

   First they only reach a tiny fraction of the community here and on
   the mailing list, which are probably the same people anyway. By
   filling the free slots with Emergency/Reserve shows, we
   automatically announce to the entire community that there were free
   slots not filled, and that we now need another Emergency/Reserve
   show to replace the one just posted.

   Secondly the call for shows result in people going to the site to
   see what the situation now is. If one host fills all the slots with
   a series they have been working on, then the next person will see a
   filled queue and not bother submitting a show. Unfortunately that
   has happened on more than one occasion.

   The two week rule, will spread out the slots which makes queue
   management a lot easier.

---

This brings up the question, we have over 341 former hosts who have not 
contributed this year. Any ideas on how to get some of them active again ?


--
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


On 2023-05-12 11:14, Ken Fallon wrote:


Hi All,

First , *w**e need shows immediately* as there is an empty queue next 
week, and the number of Emergency/Reserve shows are also dwindling. So 
please finish that show you were thinking of submitting and send it 
in. If you don't care when it's released please put "Use as Emergency 
show" in the show notes for now.


... hold music while you do that ...

I am concerned about the future of HPR, as a project where the shows 
are produced by the community. At this rate we cease to be a bar camp 
style podcast and become one where the shows are provided by a 
rotating team of "regulars".


Ideally we would like it so that every show is contributed by a 
different host, giving a 1:1 ratio between show and host. So far this 
year all but 4 of the submissions are from hosts who submitted more 
than one show, a 3:1 ratio. Ahuka aside, the majority are as a result 
of kindhearted hosts who contribute shows at the last minute to fill 
the vacant slots.


To make this problem more visible I would like to introduce the 
following Scheduling Guideline "*No host should submit any more than 
one show in a two week period.*" Of course these are guidelines etc 
etc., but it should still allow prolific hosts to submit shows while 
not masking the underlying issue that we have yet to address.


Which is: We need new hosts, but we also need old hosts who have not 
submitted shows this year to submit a show.


How do we solve this problem ?

--
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
ht

[Hpr] Policy Change, Call to action for Host to Show ratio

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

First , *w**e need shows immediately* as there is an empty queue next 
week, and the number of Emergency/Reserve shows are also dwindling. So 
please finish that show you were thinking of submitting and send it in. 
If you don't care when it's released please put "Use as Emergency show" 
in the show notes for now.


... hold music while you do that ...

I am concerned about the future of HPR, as a project where the shows are 
produced by the community. At this rate we cease to be a bar camp style 
podcast and become one where the shows are provided by a rotating team 
of "regulars".


Ideally we would like it so that every show is contributed by a 
different host, giving a 1:1 ratio between show and host. So far this 
year all but 4 of the submissions are from hosts who submitted more than 
one show, a 3:1 ratio. Ahuka aside, the majority are as a result of 
kindhearted hosts who contribute shows at the last minute to fill the 
vacant slots.


To make this problem more visible I would like to introduce the 
following Scheduling Guideline "*No host should submit any more than one 
show in a two week period.*" Of course these are guidelines etc etc., 
but it should still allow prolific hosts to submit shows while not 
masking the underlying issue that we have yet to address.


Which is: We need new hosts, but we also need old hosts who have not 
submitted shows this year to submit a show.


How do we solve this problem ?

--
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon

ID
Host
Total

159 HPR Volunteers  12
198 Ahuka   9
391 Some Guy On The Internet8
318 Archer727
282     Mike Ray5
30  Ken Fallon  5
326 Brian in Ohio   5
36  operat0r3
365 Bookewyrmm  3
225 Dave Morriss3
401 Mechatroniac3
415 enistello   2
407 Celeste 2
268 Andrew Conway   2
152 Claudio Miranda 2
293 Rho`n   2
416 screwtape   2
342 norrist 2
238 Jon Kulp2
375 minnix  2
201 MrX 2
408 Stache_AF   1
383 Paul Quirk  1
209 David Whitman   1
377 Zen_Floater21

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Re: [Hpr] 3864

[Ken Fallon]

On 2023-05-07 15:57, robert mccurdy via Hpr wrote:


CPAP,Light and Wifes Ohh My !


When asked if I planned to buy a Google thermostat, I jokingly replied 
that I already had a wife who adjusts the air conditioning and didn't 
need a robot to do the same. However, I later found a great deal on a 
split air conditioner, which was the best option for me. I'm 
considering making an episode on WLED whole house year-round lights, 
as I've been using WLED for the past 2-3 years and it's been working 
well for me. Funny conversation about the old CPAP machine.




I tried to submit comment but I may just be stupid:


ERROR CODE

*156d2d2d5780bd7f4a750f7c162b3394*

If you believe this to be an error, then please copy this error code 
and send it to admin@hpr.


2023-05-07T13:56:01 24.216.55.197 /comment_confirm.php Mozilla/5.0 
(Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) 
Chrome/110.0.0.0 Safari/537.36 Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; 
x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/110.0.0.0 Safari/537.36




-==-=--==-=--==-=--==- Tomorrow’s security today! 
http://rmccurdy.com -==-=--==-=--==-=--==-




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As a spam control measure on future and older shows, we add 3 additional 
checks.


The one that tripped you up was the "What does HPR mean to you" one

You need to fill in a *longer* answer > 20 < 200

--
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
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[Hpr] Call for shows

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

Can some people who have not submitted any shows this year, please 
record something this weekend and send it in.


--
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


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Re: [Hpr] 3783#3

[Ken Fallon]

What error did you get ?

On March 21, 2023 7:04:15 PM GMT+01:00, robert mccurdy via Hpr 
 wrote:
>I tried to put this in the comment system but it wouldn't take it:
>
>
>looks like you need to learn basic scripting :P
>Download ALL mp3 if you don't want all just head the 'in' file 
>head -n 10 in
>https://github.com/freeload101/SCRIPTS/blob/master/Bash/Hacker%20Public%20Radio%20Mass%20Download.sh
>
>    -==-=--==-=--==-=--==- Tomorrow’s security today! 
>http://rmccurdy.com -==-=--==-=--==-=--==-   
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[Hpr] Addition of Rho`n to the Janitorial staff

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

It is my pleasure to announce that Rho`n has been recommended by the 
Janitors to join their team.


He has shown a long term dedication to the project, and I am happy to 
report that he has been approved by the hosting team.


We believe that he is sufficiently trusted by the community to take up 
the official mop of office, but if anyone has objections, speak now or 
forever hold your peace.


For more information:

 * https://hackerpublicradio.org/about.php#governance
 * http://hackerpublicradio.org/correspondents.php?hostid=293
 * https://gitlab.com/roan.horning/hpr_generator


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Re: [Hpr] Supervision of a contributor

[Ken Fallon]

Hi folky (and list)

The email itself fails JWP's "Would you say that in front of Granny" 
test, but for me it's the off mail list response to jezra which is the 
straw that broke the camels back.


Jezra handled it correctly and has been around long enough to know that 
the Community is behind him.


Imagine that you had just joined the mail list, and the first post you 
got was that.


Say you were brave enough to call him out, and you got attacked like 
that in a private email. It's possible we would never even know.


The janitors have had to deal with a lot worse from this contributor, in 
the form of  trolling behavior, illegal content, other cases of 
directing attacks to people who question his behavior.


The excuse that he was not aware that he was replying to the person 
directly cuts no ice with me any more.


So enough is enough.

His behavior is not helping grow the the community

We put in a lot of effort to make this a welcoming place for people that 
might be scared to do their first show.


Just this month we expect new contributors because a lot of HPR people, 
at their own personal expense, put in the time and effort to represent 
us at FOSDEM.


The annoying part is that Mechatroniac (aka anarch0re) produces good 
shows and is a valuable member of the community.


Phrased differently no one would have any problem with the question.

--
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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On 2023-02-18 16:23, Bernhard M. wrote:
I shook my head about the mail on the choice of distribution, but I 
think this still is in the grey zone between good taste and 
intolerable. Or is there something worse you already stopped, Ken?

I really didn't like the tone

anarch0re was using, 


but it's a question of style.

/folky

18 feb. 2023 16:04:53 Ken Fallon :

Hi All,

There is the long standing policy on HPR about moderation
<https://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#not_moderated>
saying "/We do not vet, edit, moderate or in any way censor any of
the audio you submit//, we trust you to do that/". We were asked a
few times at FOSDEM as to how we can get away without moderating.
I pointed out the most important bit of that policy: namely the
"/we trust you to do that"/ part, and that the community
understand this responsibility.

If we imagine for a moment HPR been a great theater where each
show has their own hall. In your hall you will not be moderated
but we trust you not to say or do anything that will get us into
trouble. If you are dealing with some topics of a delicate nature,
you make sure that you take every reasonable step to ensure that
people do not accidentally stumble on this. We do not want anyone
to be in a situation where they are exposed to an unsavory experience.

We go on to say "Please note that this only relates to the audio
you upload. The rest of the meta-data
(branding/summaries/tags/show notes/etc.), are managed by the HPR
Community, and *may* be edited." To use our theater analogy from
before, outside the hall the janitors ensure that the entire
theater is kept welcoming to all.

One of our contributors is having a difficult time with this
responsibility, not only within their shows, but also in their
show notes, in the comments, and now on the mailing list. I can
understand that this may be difficult for them, but a lot of
leniency has been given over the years. At a particular point you
have to accept that even more help is required in showing what is
the best way to interact with a community.

Therefore I wish to propose that until trust can be reestablished,
all submissions by Mechatroniac (aka anarch0re) to the mail list
will be approved by the Janitors. We will take up contact with him
in cases where the content may cause offense. We have had some
success with this approach with him before. This will not apply to
anyone else.

All our actions will of course be overseen by the HPR Auditors who
are volunteer community members outside the Janitor/Admin team.

-- 
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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[Hpr] Supervision of a contributor

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

There is the long standing policy on HPR about moderation 
<https://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#not_moderated> 
saying "/We do not vet, edit, moderate or in any way censor any of the 
audio you submit//, we trust you to do that/". We were asked a few times 
at FOSDEM as to how we can get away without moderating. I pointed out 
the most important bit of that policy: namely the "/we trust you to do 
that"/ part, and that the community understand this responsibility.


If we imagine for a moment HPR been a great theater where each show has 
their own hall. In your hall you will not be moderated but we trust you 
not to say or do anything that will get us into trouble. If you are 
dealing with some topics of a delicate nature, you make sure that you 
take every reasonable step to ensure that people do not accidentally 
stumble on this. We do not want anyone to be in a situation where they 
are exposed to an unsavory experience.


We go on to say "Please note that this only relates to the audio you 
upload. The rest of the meta-data (branding/summaries/tags/show 
notes/etc.), are managed by the HPR Community, and *may* be edited." To 
use our theater analogy from before, outside the hall the janitors 
ensure that the entire theater is kept welcoming to all.


One of our contributors is having a difficult time with this 
responsibility, not only within their shows, but also in their show 
notes, in the comments, and now on the mailing list. I can understand 
that this may be difficult for them, but a lot of leniency has been 
given over the years. At a particular point you have to accept that even 
more help is required in showing what is the best way to interact with a 
community.


Therefore I wish to propose that until trust can be reestablished, all 
submissions by Mechatroniac (aka anarch0re) to the mail list will be 
approved by the Janitors. We will take up contact with him in cases 
where the content may cause offense. We have had some success with this 
approach with him before. This will not apply to anyone else.


All our actions will of course be overseen by the HPR Auditors who are 
volunteer community members outside the Janitor/Admin team.


--
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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[Hpr] Prime Position at FOSDEM

[Ken Fallon]

Turns out we're going to be at "Community advocacy" section in prime 
position in the main exhibition area of the K building level 1 at 
#FOSDEM. It's by far the most popular area as it is at the entrance to 
the organization team office, and the cloak room.


I know from experience, it gets absolutely nuts busy there during the 
event, and it's non stop for the entire weekend. So if you are a HPR 
contributor, or a #FreeCulture podcaster going to FOSDEM then please 
help us out at the stand.


Can you also reach out to other Podcast to see if they would clarify 
their license to release it under #CreativeCommons, as the exposure in 
the FLOSS tech community is massive from this event.


If anyone has stickers that they want us to had out, then please send 
them to me this week.


--
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


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[Hpr] Call for shows

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

If you have shows can you please post them to fill up the slots for the 
coming weeks.


If you don't have some shows, can you please allot some time over the 
holiday period to recording some.


--
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


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Re: [Hpr] New Year Show Promo/FOSDEM Podcast Table

[Ken Fallon]

(I've created a mail list to make communication easier - feel free to 
unsubscribe or ping me and I'll remove you).


Hi All,

Some good news from FOSDEM.

The #FreeCulturePodcast will have a table on both 4th & 5th of February 
2023 in Brussels.


This means we will be promoting *your podcast* to the 5000 attendees 
that will visit during the event.


We could do with some help as we were only expecting to get offered one 
day.


So if any of you are going to FOSDEM then please consider helping us our 
for a time. Even an hour will allow us to get some lunch !


Your podcast details, together with a small summary will be printed on 
the flyers we're handing out.


If you have swag/stickers that your want us to hand out please contact 
me off list and we can arrange shipping.


Also thanks to those of you who promoted the New Year Show. I'm looking 
forward to chatting with you all.


Happy Holidays !

--
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
@ken_fal...@mastodon.sdf.org
https://twitter.com/ken_fallon
https://matrix.to/#/@Ken_Fallon:matrix.org


On 2022-10-10 20:10, k...@fallon.ie wrote:

My Fellow Podcasters,

We've started the planning for the new year, and as such I'd 
appreciate it if you could include the linked promos in your upcoming 
shows before the New Year. We're also going to request a table again 
at FOSDEM under the "Free Culture Podcasts" banner, and are looking 
for people willing to assist.


# New Year Show

As we have for the last 11 years, we're hosting the 26 Hour New Year 
show again. This was an initiative by Pokey 11 years ago to have a 
place where the people making and listning to FLOSS/Tech podcasts 
could get together to have a two way conversation. It's hosted by HPR 
but I would like to see this become more a Free Culture Podcasts 
event. If any of your team, authors, readers, listeners, etc would 
like to join in (even for a few minutes) then all the info you need is 
on http://hackerpublicradio.org/ and https://freeculturepodcasts.org/.


The promos are available here:

https://hackerpublicradio.org/promote/new-year-show-promo.mp3
https://hackerpublicradio.org/promote/new-year-show-promo.ogg
https://hackerpublicradio.org/promote/new-year-show-promo.wav

# FOSDEM

For those that don't know, FOSDEM(Free and Open source Software 
Developers' European Meeting) is a huge event with thousands of 
developers and anyone interested in the free and open-source software 
movement. HPR have been covering the hallway track for years. In 2022, 
together with some other Creative Commons Podcasts, we were accepted 
for a one day stand under the umbrella of "Free Culture Podcasts", to 
promote FLOSS podcasts to the attendees. It was fantastic and we 
handed out stickers, and a leaflet that listed all the shows we could 
find that released under a free culture license.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOSDEM

There is a call for stands open again and I would like to apply. To do 
so we would need a minimum of two people available at all times. From 
experience more is better.

https://fosdem.org/2023/news/2022-09-26-stands-cfp/

So can you email me if you will be attending FOSDEM and would be 
willing to help out (even for a few hours) ? Failing that, can you 
send me stickers/swag to hand out.


Thanks and a happy new year to you all !

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[Hpr] New Years Resolution

[Ken Fallon]

Hi Everyone,

If you have an outstanding 2022 New Years Resolution to record a HPR - 
then this weekend would be a great time to record and submit.


We're running a special up until the end of December. Just record a HPR 
now and submit it and you're going into 2023 guilt free with your New 
Years Resolution covered for next year as well !!


--

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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


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[Hpr] Call for shows

[Ken Fallon]

If anyone has a show ready, please post it today otherwise I'll put a 
emergency show in.


--
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


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[Hpr] Fwd: 2022 OLF Conference Call for Presentations

[Ken Fallon]

FYI



 Forwarded Message 
Subject:2022 OLF Conference Call for Presentations
Date:   Sun, 2 Oct 2022 19:36:18 -0400
From:   Vance Kochenderfer 
To: Hacker Public Radio 
CC: speak...@olfconference.org



The 2022 OLF Conference is looking for in-person presentations on
Friday and Saturday, December 2 and 3.  Please visit the CFP page
 for full details
about submitting a proposal.  The deadline is noon on Saturday,
October 15, but the sooner you can submit a talk, the better.

Started in 2003, the OLF Conference 
(formerly known as the Ohio LinuxFest) is an annual grassroots event
in Columbus, Ohio dedicated to open access for all. Presentations
relating to any free and open source software, not just Linux, are
welcome.  Areas where we've had talks in the past include networking,
system administration, development, and community building.

Our audience consists of people at all skill levels.  Prior speaking
experience is a plus, although we do try to provide opportunities for
first-time speakers.  If you have any questions, please contact us at
. We look forward to hearing from you!

Later,
Vance Kochenderfer
2022 OLF Conference Chair

--
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[Hpr] cchits last show

[Ken Fallon]

HI All,

After nearly 12 years of daily, weekly, and sometimes even monthly 
shows, CCHits is finally starting to wrap up.


This first came to my attention back in episode 0758, and I've been a 
daily listener since.


hpr0758 :: Interview with Jon "The Nice Guy" Spriggs, Ken interviews Jon 
Spriggs of CCHits.net


https://hackerpublicradio.org/eps.php?id=0758


I asked to be included on the farewell show, and it will also be 
released on cchits.net.


I believe this falls under our rules as I was there to record a HPR 
show, but just in case I'm asking permission to cross post this show.



Please feel free to let the team know how you feel about cchits shutting 
down on Twitter <https://twitter.com/cchits>, Facebook 
<https://www.facebook.com/cchits> or by EMail <mailto:s...@cchits.net>.



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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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Re: [Hpr] Call for shows

[Ken Fallon]

Hi Mechatroniac,

I hope you're doing OK. Please don't let things get to you too much. 
It's just a podcast after all, and everyone is doing their best.


Your idea for Hacker Pirate Radio is a fine one and I would be 
interested in following it's progress. Not sure that the reliability of 
IPFS is where it needs to be, or if it would make censorship impossible 
as you suggest. I am very interested in the protocol but was put off by 
some bad experiences people had with their files been rendered lost when 
the protocol changed, and that peers just disappeared never to return.


If you want to do a purely technical show on that I would very much like 
to hear it. I think the community, whatever you may think about them, 
would be willing to provide constructive feedback to help you get it off 
the ground.


--
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


On 2022-09-12 20:12, anarch...@tutanota.com wrote:
Maybe you shouldn't accuse one of your only hardware hackers of being 
a bad actor for having opinions, after I have been trolled by the 
likes of Klaatu(who I'm sure is a good guy, being vegetarian and seems 
to be into anarchism as I am...)


Klaatu who wants to gaslight us(as he was gaslit by the mainstream 
pharma controlled media) that we are too dumb to understand science, 
because he doesn't understand risc and that we should leave it all to 
bought and paid for "experts", who only speak on one side of the dirty 
and corrupt story of covid.


That kid has a bad firmware blob and needs an update to liberational 
firmware.   If you're an anarchist act like it and read Vaniegms' "the 
revolution of everyday life", for an idea of the proper attitude 
towards experts and specialists.


Lately "evil steve" comes on and says that we should be getting 
sociopath degrees, aka MBAs.  Motherfucker, what the fuck makes you 
think that anyone interested in hacking, creating, inventing would 
want to waste their time with that shit, when they could be learning 
physics or electronics or 'risc architecture' instead?  Fuck "pen 
testers", shit sounds gay anyhow.


There now I don't have to do a podcast on this disgusting shit

I'll do some podcasts in the future but you should know the disgust I 
feel for some of you.  You aren't my people, but I'm just as sure that 
some of you are.  And my post apocalyptic robotics is an idea that 
will come to fruition one day, even if someone steals it to make it 
palatable to the mainstream hacker drones.


Hacker Pirate Radio is an idea whose time I hope comes some day, using 
IPFS maybe or some other protocol that would make censorship impossible.



PS: Calling SQL "sequel" is lame as hell, why not say the letters?  My 
suggestion is call it "squeel" but some PC fags probably would find 
offense at that some how.   Squeel only has one syllable, sequel has 
two.  I really hate most of you.


--
Sent with Tutanota, enjoy secure & ad-free emails.



Sep 8, 2022, 23:41 by k...@fallon.ie:

Hi All,

The queue is looking a little empty at the moment.

If you have not already submitted a show this year, then please
consider recording something.

If you have reserve shows ready, can you pick a regular slot and
put in the shownotes that it's a reserve show. Once we get a few
more of these, we can see how best to make that an option on upload.

-- 
Regards,


Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


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Re: [Hpr] Volunteer for a New Year Show Banner

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-09-10 11:44, honkey Magoo wrote:

What type of banner are you looking for?



Remember the oldskool banners people added to their websites back in the 
day ?


Something people can click on to get to the page about the new year show.

--
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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[Hpr] Volunteer for a New Year Show Banner

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

Can someone help me put together a banner for to promote the HPR, Free 
Culture Podcasts New Years eve show. ?


--
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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[Hpr] Call for shows

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

The queue is looking a little empty at the moment.

If you have not already submitted a show this year, then please consider 
recording something.


If you have reserve shows ready, can you pick a regular slot and put in 
the shownotes that it's a reserve show. Once we get a few more of these, 
we can see how best to make that an option on upload.


--
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


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Re: [Hpr] Apologies to the Linux Inlaws

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-09-04 03:42, Jason Dodd wrote:
Perhaps but I think a couple of people have explained it to me. I 
consider all of my shows a series of my podcast that I make to host on 
hpr.  Appears I've misunderstood HPR since the TWAT days. That's fine 
and no hard feelings.  On the contrary I'm glad to have my 
understanding corrected.


Even back in the TWAT days, hosts produced shows for TWAT(aka HPR) and 
also produced their own shows for their own podcasts. Dann and Pat 
posted different shows to TWAT, but also posted to TLLTS. Same is true 
for Droops who also posted different shows to Infonomicon.




My next show was going to be titled, "That's Dummy ep 01"  Or rather, 
it still will be just not on hpr :)


If you are doing you're own standalone podcast, we can include one show 
for promotional purposes


https://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#syndication



/HPR is founded on the principle of Hackers sharing knowledge. For this 
reason we are only releasing material created exclusively for HPR. We 
will continue to promote new podcasts and other creative commons 
material, but if you wish to have your show promoted, then please 
contact our sister site //Free Culture Podcasts 
<https://freeculturepodcasts.org/>//. /


//

/That said, if there is a piece of creative commons content that you 
would like to promote, then feel free to record a regular show. There 
you can introduce the content and explain why it is important, providing 
links to where we can get more information etc., and then include one 
example episode. /




On 2022-09-03 18:45, Jason Dodd wrote:
This whole thing has moved me firmly into the listener side of the 
house. If Linux Inlaws isn't for HPR, none of my content would be.


Linux Inlaws content is definitely something that we want here on HPR. 
Some people don't like their shows, and they are entitled to that 
opinion, however I think it's safe to say that most people do enjoy at 
least some of their content.


So it's not about the content, it's never been about the content. It's 
about the point *is HPR a podcast, or a podcast hosting platform*. I 
know monochromec doesn't care about this but we do. We do not want to 
host other peoples podcasts, not because we don't like the content, but 
because we do not have the slots available to cater for all the shows 
that would want to join.


Taking an example. If they record an interview with Linus, there would 
be no question but we would all love to hear it. However if they want to 
have it on HPR, then it needs to be produced for HPR. So I would expect 
to hear, "Hi Linus, thanks for taking the time to talk to us here on 
Hacker Public Radio" etc.


To put it another way, you could compare it to the aversion that BSD has 
to running GPL code. (Our license are both CC-BY-SA so don't take this 
literally). It might be the same 1's and 0's that are been used, but 
it's the authors approach to the code distribution that is the issue.


So I am sure your content will be "of interest to hackers", and as we 
are dedicated to sharing knowledge we will help you in any way we can. 
If you want to have it released on HPR that's fine, but make sure it's 
intended to be a show on the HPR Podcast. If you're going it alone then 
that's also fine and we'll offer tips and advise as we always do.


--
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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Re: [Hpr] [Admin] Apologies to the Linux Inlaws

[Ken Fallon]

Also to the list

On 2022-08-20 10:17, Christoph Zimmermann wrote:

Hi Ken / HPR admins,

No worries Ken / HPR. We would like to thank HPR for having us for the 
the last 2.5 years.


We will remember this once the Inlaws have reached their ultimate 
goal: world domination :-))).


Until then the second 10 beers are on us when we meet again at the 
next FOSDEM or wherever.


Let's take the technical transition of the RSS feed, etc. off-line. 
Chris will be in touch via the admin ML shortly.


Cheers, The Linux Inlaws

On 20.08.22 04:10, Ken Fallon wrote:
TL;DR Ken wakes up to find out he is wrong (again) and owes the Linux 
InLaws and apology.


Hi All,

I've had some time to stand back and think about how I handled this 
situation and I owe the Linux Inlaws an apology.


As they have stated several times, from their point of view nothing 
has changed since their joining HPR. They believed and believe HPR to 
be a Podcast Hosting Platform and have used it as such in good faith. 
I now see that in that light they have done all that was asked of 
them and more.


In forgetting that we were bootstrapping their podcast, and getting 
frustrated at their apparent flouting of the Syndication rule, I have 
done HPR and the Linux Inlaws a disservice. They have not done 
anything wrong.


I would like to apologies to all concerned.

Unfortunately as I spent so much effort proving HPR is not a Podcast 
Hosting Platform, I am now left with the problem of dealing with a 
FLOSS Podcast without a home. This is not a good look, and is exactly 
the opposite of what I was trying to achieve.


The InLaws will need some time to transition to their own hosting 
site. Their schedule is recorded several months in advance, so they 
will need the time to migrate in an orderly fashion. The move to new 
hosting would need to get ironed out, as well as notifying their 
listeners as to the change that is happening, and we need to make 
sure that the feeds redirect automatically.


I would like to ask the HPR Community's tolerance for this exception 
for say a period of six months or so, so that they can round off 
Season 1 here on HPR in good order. I also hope that that extra time 
will give me the opportunity to mend some fences.


Suffice to say I owe Martin, Chris and indeed Yannick some beers at 
FOSDEM for this mess.






--
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


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Re: [Hpr] Apologies to the Linux Inlaws

[Ken Fallon]

Apologies this also needs to go to the HPR list.

On 2022-08-20 04:10, Ken Fallon wrote:
TL;DR Ken wakes up to find out he is wrong (again) and owes the Linux 
InLaws and apology.


Hi All,

I've had some time to stand back and think about how I handled this 
situation and I owe the Linux Inlaws an apology.


As they have stated several times, from their point of view nothing 
has changed since their joining HPR. They believed and believe HPR to 
be a Podcast Hosting Platform and have used it as such in good faith. 
I now see that in that light they have done all that was asked of them 
and more.


In forgetting that we were bootstrapping their podcast, and getting 
frustrated at their apparent flouting of the Syndication rule, I have 
done HPR and the Linux Inlaws a disservice. They have not done 
anything wrong.


I would like to apologies to all concerned.

Unfortunately as I spent so much effort proving HPR is not a Podcast 
Hosting Platform, I am now left with the problem of dealing with a 
FLOSS Podcast without a home. This is not a good look, and is exactly 
the opposite of what I was trying to achieve.


The InLaws will need some time to transition to their own hosting 
site. Their schedule is recorded several months in advance, so they 
will need the time to migrate in an orderly fashion. The move to new 
hosting would need to get ironed out, as well as notifying their 
listeners as to the change that is happening, and we need to make sure 
that the feeds redirect automatically.


I would like to ask the HPR Community's tolerance for this exception 
for say a period of six months or so, so that they can round off 
Season 1 here on HPR in good order. I also hope that that extra time 
will give me the opportunity to mend some fences.


Suffice to say I owe Martin, Chris and indeed Yannick some beers at 
FOSDEM for this mess.




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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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Re: [Hpr] Is HPR a podcast or podcast hosting platform ?

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-08-11 22:16, Ken Fallon wrote:

https://hackerpublicradio.org/eps.php?id=3658

"In this episode our two ageing heroes explore the inner workings of a 
podcast (or podcast hosting platform depending on your perspective) 
called Hacker Public Radio."


Are we a podcast or podcast hosting platform ?

I believe there is a fundamental difference between the two. Knowing 
which we are impacts the direction we will take as a project.


Can you please provide your view on this.


Hi All,

I just want to summarize the topic as to my understanding of the current 
situation.


I don't think there is a need to amend the rules related to syndication 
because they are pretty clear on the subject. As Yannik pointed out at 
the time, the Linux InLaws was a syndicated podcast, but we granted them 
an exception so they could bootstrap their show. My failing here was to 
not have specified firm conditions for what bootstrapping a podcast on 
HPR would look like, and how long it would take, and then ensure it was 
managed correctly.


There seems to be a clear desire to keep HPR as a podcast and not 
transition to a podcast hosting platform. What I came to realize was 
that the HPR setup could be adapted to become a podcast hosting platform 
with minor changes. For example, were we to not release the main feed, 
remove the HPR branding, and provide each show their own schedule, then 
each hosted podcast (now HPR series) would be their own entity. However 
it's not something that the community, janitors, or the HPR patrons are 
enthusiastic about implementing.


The idea of a FLOSS alternative to other proprietary podcast platforms 
is not a bad idea on the whole, but thinking about it the Internet 
Archive is already providing most if not all needed to host a podcast.


Thanks everyone for the feedback related to this topic, and I hope that 
everyone appreciates any frustration came from genuine misunderstanding.


We're working with the InLaws to migrate their show shortly after the 
date of the last LI episode posted to HPR has been passed 2022-09-22. 
I've asked monochromec to record a show on the process so that other 
would be podcasters could benefit from the experience.



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Re: [Hpr] Linux Inlaws

[Ken Fallon]

Hi Christoph,

While you are entitled to your opinions, I do need to correct you on a 
few factual inaccuracies in your email.


Regarding "/If Ken's analysis published recently [1] is anything to go 
by, we are one of HPR's most popular podcasts/"


What I didn't include in that analysis was the 170 additional 
subscribers that you get to your feed. As no one else promote their own 
RSS feed, we need to subtract that from the download figures to be fair 
to the other shows. The corrected numbers are below.



 First day of release numbers

   *hpr3609 2022-06-02 583 (was 753)*
   hpr3608 2022-06-01  726
   hpr3607 2022-05-31  722
   hpr3606 2022-05-30  732
   hpr3605 2022-05-27  774
   hpr3604 2022-05-26  748
   hpr3603 2022-05-25  756
   hpr3602 2022-05-24  766
   hpr3601 2022-05-23  753


Regarding "/Youtube channel republishing the audio content and giving 
HPR credit [2]/"


I can't see that they are assigning credit, or even flagging the content 
as Creative Commons. Unless you mean in the audio stream, which is 
created by HPR ?


$ yt-dlp.sh --dump-json 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1j_uaAbB3magzPs4Z0Y-mg | jq '.' | sed 
-e 's#hackerpublicradio.org/eps.php##g' -e 's/All about Hacker Public 
Radio//g' -e 's/Hacker Public Radio in general and Ken Fallon//g' | grep 
-Ei "Hacker|Creative"  | wc -l

*0*

Regarding "/David speaks about HPR having reached out to them trying to 
move them over to HPR./"


This statement is not correct and I would appreciate it if you could 
contact David and correct his understanding. Fortunately the entire 
conversation is available publicly on twitter

https://twitter.com/ken_fallon/status/1539598341096480770

"@ken_fallon to @tkglaser and @nosqlgeek Jun 22: Have you ever 
considered releasing your content as Creative Commons ? We promote shows 
both on @HPR and also on https://freeculturepodcasts.org. For both we 
would need to have your RSS feed or you don't qualify as a "Podcast".


--
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon

2022-08-19 07:24, Christoph Zimmermann wrote:

Dear community,

First of all, the Inlaws would like to thank the HPR community for 
their feedback over the years and especially the last few days.


Ken is of course right in pointing out the bootstrapping argument in 
Wednesday's reply to Yannick's mail (although we never really defined 
how long this "bootstrapping" period would last).


In addition to the above, the assessment of the situation in our mail 
from Wednesday (republished in Ken's mail): the situation from an 
Inlaws' perspective hasn't changed since we published our first 
episode in early 2020. The content is published exclusively on HPR and 
our RSS feed points to HPR *only*. Having said that I cannot get rid 
of that sinking feeling that HPR and its community shy away from 
success. If Ken's analysis published recently [1] is anything to go 
by, we are one of HPR's most popular podcasts which regularly 
publishes content. In addition to the fact that we are syndicated 
left, right and center without any involvement of our own (as we found 
out a while ago, there's, for example, a Youtube channel republishing 
the audio content  and giving HPR credit [2]).


But let's take a look at the bigger picture. If our experience never 
mind the feedback we are getting through official and other channels 
are anything to go by,
the vast majority of our listeners couldn't care less where they get 
their episodes from. They heard or read about the podcast, search for 
the RSS feed, subscribe to it and if they like what they hear 
downloaded from a server, they stick with us.


End of story.

In this light, any discussion about wording, podcasts vs hosting 
platforms, etc. is academic and thus irrelevant for these listeners 
(playing devil's advocate for the above of course never mind ignoring 
bylaws, etc. :-).


Of course, bylaws are bylaws and feeling that we may have overstayed 
our welcome, we are happy to move the content elsewhere (probably 
archive.org as suggested by Ken) which also has the side effect of 
reducing the technical debt of the corresponding automation workflow 
significantly. But do so with a bitter-sweet feeling as we do believe 
in the true spirit of FLOSS communities and their welcoming / 
inclusive attitude, thus having made every effort to promote HPR and 
its cause as part of the episodes and elsewhere. Which is in stark 
contrast to the wording of some of the comments posted to the HPR ML 
over the last couple days.


On an interesting side node: HPR seems to be actively soliciting 
podcasts from other platforms if, for example, the case of the Grumpy 
Old Coders is anything to go by. In its most recent episode [3], David 
speaks about HPR having reached out to them trying to move them over 
to HPR. Given the fact that this format is

Re: [Hpr] LinuxInlaws and HPR

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-08-18 15:25, Jason Dodd wrote:


On 8/18/22 07:40, Kevin O'Brien wrote:

I would think there are two problems here, potentially. First, if your
plan amounts to having HPR host your own podcast, obviously that is
wrong.
Then I suppose I'll stop with the shows that I do have recorded but 
haven't uploaded.  I consider the few shows I've done now my irregular 
podcast that's posted to HPR.


It takes very little to run your own podcast nowadays. Create an account 
on the Internet Archive and upload your media there. Create a small RSS 
file on your own domain which points to the media on the IA and you're 
done. We can help you if you run into problems, and advise you on how to 
increase your exposure.


I guess it's a distinction without a difference to me.  A series on 
HPR is the same as a podcast on a specific topic only hosted on HPR.



HPR tag is an ad-hoc grouping of shows on a topic.

HPR Series tend to be open to multiple hosts on a defined grouping of 
shows around a topic.



Number of Hosts
<https://binrev.anhonesthost.net:2083/cpsess6253454060/3rdparty/phpMyAdmin/sql.php?db=hpr_hpr=miniseries_query=SELECT%0D%0ACOUNT%28DISTINCT+h.host%29+nhosts%2C+ms.name%0D%0AFROM+miniseries+ms%0D%0AJOIN+eps+e+ON+ms.id+%3D+e.series%0D%0AJOIN+hosts+h+ON+e.hostid+%3D+h.hostid%0D%0AGROUP+BY+ms.id++%0AORDER+BY+%60nhosts%60++ASC_signature=7ed1cb81411cb5f8503c41a700d4924f0fe242a3b579a3cb0659baf44b9b09f7_max_rows=50_browse_distinct=0> 
	Name

50  How I got into tech
44  Interviews
34  What's in My Toolkit
20  Privacy and Security
20  Podcast recommendations
15  Cooking
12  Health and Healthcare
11  Accessibility
11  Hobby Electronics
10  Programming 101
10  Bash Scripting
10  Syndicated Thursdays
9   Hardware upgrades
9   Sound Scapes
9   Coffee
9   HAM radio
8   Podcasting HowTo
8   Networking
8   OggCamp
7   Lightweight Apps
7   Tabletop Gaming
6   A Little Bit of Python
5   Arduino and related devices
5   Vim Hints
5   All Songs Considered
4   Beverages
4   Virtualization
3   Social Media
3   The art of writing
3   Mental Health
3   Version Control
3   Databases
3   Filesystems
3   Learning Awk
3   YouTube Subscriptions
3   NewsCast
3   April Fools Shows
3   Information Underground
2   LibreOffice
2   Compilers - how they work
2   Introduction to Git
2   LPI Certifications
2   Tit Radio
2   Lord D Film Reviews
2   RoundTable
2   HPR_AudioBookClub
2   Apt Spelunking
2   Model Hacking
2   Freedom is not Free

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Re: [Hpr] LinuxInlaws and HPR

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-08-17 18:45, yann...@frenchguy.ch wrote:
Gosh, I didn't think anything would make me break my silence, but I 
have to.


I'm not the kind of guy to say "I told you so", but  on Thu Feb 13 
04:40:40 PST 2020 - that's 2 and a half years ago ! - I wrote and 
email titled "HPR 3009" in wich I said :


I'm writting to you today, because I am concerned by episode 3009.
This seems to me like a clear case of "syndication" : first the title, 
"Linux Inlaws S01 E01", and then the fact that there is no mention of 
HPR at all in the show.


The whole thing is here :
http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2020-February/014677.html

I stand on my position : Linux Inlaws (in its current form) has no 
business being on HPR.


(Oh well, I'd better go for it, now : I told you so !)

Anyway, back to being silent.

Yannick, the french guy Switzerland.


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Thanks yannick. I had completely forgotten this thread.

http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2020-February/014678.html

When I was at the stand at FOSDEM I spoke to Christoph and it became
clear that their website and feed are not active. So they are posting
exclusively to HPR. So we are bootstrapping their show for them.

Once they have everything ready then they will move to their own feeds
and become a fellow show on the Free Culture Podcasts site.


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Re: [Hpr] LinuxInlaws and HPR

[Ken Fallon]

The "HPR syndication policy" was designed to stop other podcasts from 
monopolizing slots on the HPR queue.


> Question 1 -  What would it take to get the Linux Inlaws into 
compliance with the HPR syndication policy?


Stop been a podcast, start posting shows. Consider shows from Klaatu or 
Knightwise - do you ever have any difficulty knowing if their shows were 
intended for HPR or if they were from their own podcast ?


> Question 2 - Is a HPR host having a separate website to promote their 
HPR episodes OK?


Of course. Have a look at Ahuka, 
https://www.zwilnik.com/hacker-public-radio/
In fact when he submits a show and posts there, we see several hundred 
redirects from his site to HPR.


> Question 3 - Many HPR episodes are audio versions of a web page 
previously published by the host.  Does an audio version of an existing 
web page (Verbatim or summarized) meet the requirement of "material 
created exclusively for HPR"?


Probably not because it is there content and they are creating a new 
medium for HPR. Take the DOS series, that was posted years ago, but the 
shows were recorded for HPR. However it would be on a case by case basis.


> The biggest issue I see is the separate Linux inlaws feed with 
unpublished HPR episodes. What if they replaced their feed 
(https://linuxinlaws.eu/inlaws_rss.xml) with the HPR Series feed?


No that is not the biggest issue. The biggest issue is that we have been 
turning other podcasts away for the same reasons that we're turning the 
Linux Inlaws away.


We do not syndicate podcasts on HPR. So is the Linux InLaws a Podcast ? 
To use the saying "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and 
quacks like a duck, it's a duck.".


Ken.



On 2022-08-17 16:58, Todd wrote:
I have a few questions about the syndication policy. Hopefully I am 
not over complicating the issue.


Question 1 -  What would it take to get the Linux Inlaws into 
compliance with the HPR syndication policy?


The biggest issue I see is the separate Linux inlaws feed with 
unpublished HPR episodes.
What if they replaced their feed 
(https://linuxinlaws.eu/inlaws_rss.xml) with the HPR Series feed?



Question 2 - Is a HPR host having a separate website to promote their 
HPR episodes OK?


Question 3 - Many HPR episodes are audio versions of a web page 
previously published by the host.  Does an audio version of  an 
existing web page (Verbatim or summarized) meet the requirement of 
"material created exclusively for HPR"?



On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 6:56 AM Ken Fallon  wrote:

Hi All,

With permission, I am posting the email and my response to the
Linux Inlaws.

Your comments are welcome

Ken.

On 16 Aug 2022, at 20:55, Ken Fallon 
<mailto:k...@fallon.ie> wrote:

Hi Lads,

As I think you are aware a discussion was carried out on the mail
list[1] following my request to clarify the nature of HPR. The
community is of the opinion that we are not a podcast hosting
platform, and do not "host" podcasts. All our series are
considered to be episodes that are part of the HPR podcast. This
puts your show at odds with our rule: "only releasing material
created exclusively for HPR.[2]". As we have applied this rule a
lot in the past, we cannot make an exception here. So if you wish
to continue to post to HPR, then you need to ensure that your
content is produced exclusively for HPR.

If you decide not to follow this path, then your future episodes
will need to be hosted elsewhere. As your content is Creative
Commons, then the Internet Archive would seem to be the logical
place to host the shows. We are obviously willing to assist with
the transition. We can also add your show to
https://freeculturepodcasts.org/, which by default gets you
exposure at any of the Fests that our contributors attend. We can
also send out notices to the other people we know who maintain
FLOSS podcast lists. Given a lot of people are subscribing to your
series RSS feed (?series=111), we can hard code a redirect to
https://linuxinlaws.eu/inlaws_rss.xml, and that way you don't lose
any dedicated subscribers. We will also be sure to remind people
to add your feed in the upcoming community news.

I know this is not great news for you, and I am not enjoying being
the messenger.

OK well tell me what you decide and as always you can bypass us
and bring this up on the mailing list[1], or you can contact the
smaller group of Auditors (audit...@hackerpublicradio.org) to
discuss it with them in private.

[1]

http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2022-August/015343.html
[2]
https://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#syndication




On 2022-08-17 11:15, Linuxinlaws wrote:

Hi Ken,

We certainly followed the discussion on the mailing list - with
  

Re: [Hpr] LinuxInlaws and HPR

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

With permission, I am posting the email and my response to the Linux Inlaws.

Your comments are welcome

Ken.

On 16 Aug 2022, at 20:55, Ken Fallon  wrote:

Hi Lads,

As I think you are aware a discussion was carried out on the mail 
list[1] following my request to clarify the nature of HPR. The community 
is of the opinion that we are not a podcast hosting platform, and do not 
"host" podcasts. All our series are considered to be episodes that are 
part of the HPR podcast. This puts your show at odds with our rule: 
"only releasing material created exclusively for HPR.[2]". As we have 
applied this rule a lot in the past, we cannot make an exception here. 
So if you wish to continue to post to HPR, then you need to ensure that 
your content is produced exclusively for HPR.


If you decide not to follow this path, then your future episodes will 
need to be hosted elsewhere. As your content is Creative Commons, then 
the Internet Archive would seem to be the logical place to host the 
shows. We are obviously willing to assist with the transition. We can 
also add your show to https://freeculturepodcasts.org/, which by default 
gets you exposure at any of the Fests that our contributors attend. We 
can also send out notices to the other people we know who maintain FLOSS 
podcast lists. Given a lot of people are subscribing to your series RSS 
feed (?series=111), we can hard code a redirect to 
https://linuxinlaws.eu/inlaws_rss.xml, and that way you don't lose any 
dedicated subscribers. We will also be sure to remind people to add your 
feed in the upcoming community news.


I know this is not great news for you, and I am not enjoying being the 
messenger.


OK well tell me what you decide and as always you can bypass us and 
bring this up on the mailing list[1], or you can contact the smaller 
group of Auditors (audit...@hackerpublicradio.org) to discuss it with 
them in private.


[1] 
http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2022-August/015343.html

[2] https://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#syndication




On 2022-08-17 11:15, Linuxinlaws wrote:

Hi Ken,

We certainly followed the discussion on the mailing list - with 
growing disbelief tbh - and as yet have not commented. As LinuxInlaws 
we applaud the democratic approach by listening to the community. At 
the same time we have to ask ourselves, can a handful of people 
commenting on a mailing be considered the whole community? As you 
well know, the silent majority tend not to comment on mailing lists.


That being said, we also need to look at the actual arguments being 
made “HPR is not a podcasting platform and doesn’t allow 
syndication”. We fully agree and comply with this, as far as the 
LinuxInlaws are concerned, we are a series on HPR - just like many 
others. To argue the case:

All our content is exclusively produced for and released on HPR
Yes, we have a website but the same can be said for many serial 
content producers on HPR. Our website is supporting only and does not 
host and recordings.
Our set-up and the way we publish material has been the same from the 
start so why the sudden change of direction for HPR.


We feel rather singled-out in this discussion and consider us no 
different to other series producers on HPR.


More than happy to discuss. We greatly appreciate HPR and would 
prefer to remain a part of it.


Martin and Chris.




My response to the points are as follows:

/> "At the same time we have to ask ourselves, can a handful of people 
commenting on a mailing be considered the whole community?"/
How we operate as a community is described here 
https://hackerpublicradio.org/about.php#governance. These emails are 
also brought to the attention of the entire community every first Monday 
of the month in the Community News show. There the community in it's 
entirety can and do provide comments. Any proposals on improvements are 
welcome.


/> "Yes, we have a website but the same can be said for many serial 
content producers on HPR."/
Please give me an example of a show or series on HPR that has it's own 
intro and outro, operates it's own website, has it's own feed that posts 
shows prior to them been aired on HPR. They will also qualify as 
syndicated shows and will be treated according to the same rules.

https://hackerpublicradio.org/series.php

/> "//Our set-up and the way we publish material has been the same from 
the start/"


We made you aware of the rule in the welcome email I send to new hosts:

   Are you planning on releasing exclusively on HPR or are you planning on
   hosting your own podcast ?

   If the former then no problem. If you are planning your own show then
   I'm posting one sample episode under the rules
   http://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#syndication

   If you are doing your own show we will be happy to add your site and
   feed to thehttp://freeculturepo

Re: [Hpr] Is HPR a podcast or podcast hosting platform ?

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-08-13 21:44, dnt via Hpr wrote:

Honestly, I think the idea that HPR would be a podcast hosting platform
has no basis on anything. It's largely a self-serving misconception for
those who use it as one.

Let's give everyone the benefit of the doubt here.

Probably no one is really upset about the inlaws posting their shows as
HPR shows, they clearly fit in, and it's good to fill a slot. I see this
like there's been a kind of symbiotic relationship, and then they
misrepresented this relationship, which has put HPR in a slightly
uncomfortable position. It shouldn't change just to get comfortable
again. HPR should just reiterate that it is not a podcast hosting
platform, but rather a podcast, and that as far as it's concerned, Linux
In-Laws is a series within HPR, as are others.


To give you some background, the decision to only release material 
created exclusively for HPR, was taken by the mail list. But it was a 
hard decision to make, and even harder to implement.


http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2012-October/011545.html

At the time we had to drop three shows from the podcast and we have 
turned away more than 20 different podcasts since then. We started 
https://freeculturepodcasts.org/, and have the "Podcast Recommendation" 
Series in order to lighten the message we're giving in having to turn 
good people away.


It sucks turning these shows away, especially when we had a call for 
shows open. Thankfully most of these shows remained friends and 
understood the reasons for the decision, were grateful of the publicity 
we could provide, and many went on to be HPR contributors, supplying 
shows and staffing the HPR booths.


While there may have been doubt to start with, the Linux InLaws now 
definitely qualifies as a syndicated show. We have rules - rules that 
were agreed after a fair bit of thought and discussion in the community 
- but the Inlaws are now outside these rules which puts us in a 
difficult position, whether arrived at by accident or not.


So to me at least, this is rather more than putting HPR into a slightly 
uncomfortable position, it calls into question the impartiality with 
which we applied the rules.


I need an answer to the question "why are they allowed to be on HPR and 
${podcast} isn't ?" and right now I don't have one.


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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


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Re: [Hpr] Is HPR a podcast or podcast hosting platform ?

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-08-13 19:41, Dave Lee (HPR) wrote:



On Sat, Aug 13, 2022 at 6:15pm, Ken Fallon  wrote:

On 2022-08-13 17:49, Roan Horning wrote:

It's usually pretty clear cut. If someone has their own podcast,
with their own site, and their own feed - then they are a
syndicated show. None of these things were in place when the
InLaws posted their first show.

That's interesting, I thought the syndication rule was in place well 
before then.


 Dave


Yes the rule was there, but they didn't have a website at the time.

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Re: [Hpr] Is HPR a podcast or podcast hosting platform ?

[Ken Fallon]

I think the "/or are you planning on hosting your own podcast ?"/ is 
what caused the confusion. I can imagine if you thought HPR was a 
podcast hosting platform, then you might think that the syndicated rule 
didn't apply.


Ken.

//

On 2022-08-13 19:14, Ken Fallon wrote:

On 2022-08-13 17:49, Roan Horning wrote:


On 8/13/22 11:25, Ken Fallon wrote:

Well doesn't that make those Syndicated Shows?

Ahh, I didn't realize that was an issue. While I have recently worked 
with the syndication page, I obviously haven't read it thoroughly :) 
How is this decided currently--whether a podcast can post through HPR 
or not? Is it on a case by case decision through the mailing list?


It's usually pretty clear cut. If someone has their own podcast, with 
their own site, and their own feed - then they are a syndicated show. 
None of these things were in place when the InLaws posted their first 
show.


However I did send them this email to check.

/Are you planning on releasing exclusively on HPR or are you
planning on hosting your own podcast ?/

/If the former then no problem. If you are planning your own show
then I'm posting one sample episode under the rules/
/http://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#syndication/

/If you are doing your own show we will be happy to add your site
and feed to the http://freeculturepodcasts.org/ list./


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Re: [Hpr] Is HPR a podcast or podcast hosting platform ?

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-08-13 17:49, Roan Horning wrote:


On 8/13/22 11:25, Ken Fallon wrote:

Well doesn't that make those Syndicated Shows?

Ahh, I didn't realize that was an issue. While I have recently worked 
with the syndication page, I obviously haven't read it thoroughly :) 
How is this decided currently--whether a podcast can post through HPR 
or not? Is it on a case by case decision through the mailing list?


It's usually pretty clear cut. If someone has their own podcast, with 
their own site, and their own feed - then they are a syndicated show. 
None of these things were in place when the InLaws posted their first show.


However I did send them this email to check.

   /Are you planning on releasing exclusively on HPR or are you
   planning on hosting your own podcast ?/

   /If the former then no problem. If you are planning your own show
   then I'm posting one sample episode under the rules/
   /http://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#syndication/

   /If you are doing your own show we will be happy to add your site
   and feed to the http://freeculturepodcasts.org/ list./


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Re: [Hpr] Is HPR a podcast or podcast hosting platform ?

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-08-13 17:03, Roan Horning wrote:


On 8/13/22 10:20, Ken Fallon wrote:

On 2022-08-13 14:41, Roan Horning wrote:


On 8/12/22 03:27, Ken Fallon wrote:

On 2022-08-11 22:16, Ken Fallon wrote:
For me the connotation of a podcast hosting platform means either 
some kind of monetization going on in the background, or some kind 
of sharing of resources between the podcasts, and I am not sure how 
that would look and work as HPR is currently structured. ...


Anyway when money gets involved, we go to a whole other layer of 
oversight, and bureaucracy that I would much prefer to have nothing 
to do with. If you want to contribute, send your donation to 
Josh/AnHonestHost or The Internet Archive. When HPR needs stuff, the 
community usually provides.


I didn't state it, but I agree. It is another whole level of 
complexity that is not worth the effort.


Apologies I misunderstood your point.





As far as needing a podcast hosting platform, there already is one, 
and that is the Internet Archive. They already provide an API, and 
they provide the hosting for us and many other Creative Commons 
podcasts as well. In fact that is where HPR shows that have gone live 
are hosted from, so what value would hosting on HPR provide ?


The value of hosting your shows on HPR, at least initially, is a 
fairly large audience with presumably similar interest is introduced 
to your content.


Well doesn't that make those Syndicated Shows?

   /we are only releasing material created exclusively for HPR./

   https://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#syndication

We put that rule in because other podcasts sought to post to HPR to gain 
audience, and we started having no free slots for HPR only content.


Over the years we have stopped a lot of podcasts from airing on HPR 
because of this rule, but what's to stop them "hosting" on HPR instead 
and by passing this rule ?



Ken.
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Re: [Hpr] Is HPR a podcast or podcast hosting platform ?

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-08-13 14:41, Roan Horning wrote:


On 8/12/22 03:27, Ken Fallon wrote:

On 2022-08-11 22:16, Ken Fallon wrote:

https://hackerpublicradio.org/eps.php?id=3658


So, let me clarify the question to "*Should* we be a podcast or 
podcast hosting platform ".




So far, I don't feel like anyone "hosting their podcast" on HPR has 
abused the spirit of posting to HPR.


Agreed, I think everyone has entered into this in good faith. HPR can 
operate as either a podcast or podcast hosting platform, but i would 
like to see the direction




For me the connotation of a podcast hosting platform means either some 
kind of monetization going on in the background, or some kind of 
sharing of resources between the podcasts, and I am not sure how that 
would look and work as HPR is currently structured. I doubt Josh and 
AnHonestHost.net would mind some extra capital coming in to offset the 
HPR resources they graciously give to HPR, but it would be a 
completely new dynamic that would need to be worked out. If we went 
that route, I see a Hacker Public Network (HPN) or Hacker Public 
Broadcasting Network (HPBN) to which HPR would then become part of 
that network, but HPR would remain basically the same.
First there is no guarantee or suggestion that money would be flowing 
into a podcast hosting platform. Were sponsorship deals be entered into 
by podcasts on a podcast hosting platform, there is nothing to suggest 
that any of that money would flow to the podcast hosting platforms 
koffers. In fact Youtube, Facebook etc are expected to pay the content 
creators.


Anyway when money gets involved, we go to a whole other layer of 
oversight, and bureaucracy that I would much prefer to have nothing to 
do with. If you want to contribute, send your donation to 
Josh/AnHonestHost or The Internet Archive. When HPR needs stuff, the 
community usually provides.


As far as needing a podcast hosting platform, there already is one, and 
that is the Internet Archive. They already provide an API, and they 
provide the hosting for us and many other Creative Commons podcasts as 
well. In fact that is where HPR shows that have gone live are hosted 
from, so what value would hosting on HPR provide ?


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Re: [Hpr] Is HPR a podcast or podcast hosting platform ?

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-08-11 22:16, Ken Fallon wrote:

https://hackerpublicradio.org/eps.php?id=3658

"In this episode our two ageing heroes explore the inner workings of a 
podcast (or podcast hosting platform depending on your perspective) 
called Hacker Public Radio."


Are we a podcast or podcast hosting platform ?

I believe there is a fundamental difference between the two. Knowing 
which we are impacts the direction we will take as a project.


Can you please provide your view on this.

Basing the answers around the podcast feed is not going to give a clear 
cut answer. Every host and every series have their own feeds, and anyone 
can create their own feed pointing to the media on HPR or the Internet 
Archive.


So, let me clarify the question to "*Should* we be a podcast or podcast 
hosting platform ".



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[Hpr] Is HPR a podcast or podcast hosting platform ?

[Ken Fallon]

https://hackerpublicradio.org/eps.php?id=3658

"In this episode our two ageing heroes explore the inner workings of a 
podcast (or podcast hosting platform depending on your perspective) 
called Hacker Public Radio."


Are we a podcast or podcast hosting platform ?

I believe there is a fundamental difference between the two. Knowing 
which we are impacts the direction we will take as a project.


Can you please provide your view on this.

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Re: [Hpr] Accessibility problem

[Ken Fallon]

echo "bob reading Accessibility problem thread" >> owes-me-a-show.txt

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On 2022-08-03 10:27, Bob Jonkman wrote:

You know, this entire thread would make a great HPR episode.

--Bob, who's a fine one to talk about *other* people making episodes...


(actually, I'm willing to read this e-mail thread into a microphone 
and make an episode out of it. But I'm visually dependent, so while I 
think I understand the problem and the solution, I'm no a11y expert)




On 2022-08-03 01:16, Mike Ray wrote:



Reading further down your email than I did before Ken, this solution 
would work, if the tag subject were included in the first anchor in a 
list of tags for that subject.





On 02/08/2022 17:39, Ken Fallon wrote:

I think I understand the problem

We have the search text and then the episode number(s) where that 
keyword appears


kafka: 3639
kali linux: 1457

So when you search for kafka you would land on "3639" which you 
hear. is fine as that is the show for kafka


But you cannot see if there are 2 or more shows for kafka

As when you tab again you hear the text "1457" which is not about 
kafka but in fact kali linux.


If someone else records a show about kafka then we would have

kafka: 3639, 
kali linux: 1457

So the search to kafka would then go to 3639, then , and then 1457

There is no indication to show which link is about kafka.

Is that the problem ?

If so then would the solution be to have the tag included in the 
first link


So the first hyperlink would be "kafka: 3639"

The second would just be ""  and then on for as many shows as 
there are.


When you jump to the next tag you would hear "kali linux: 1457" and 
then any other show numbers


Is that a solution ?

Or should we just have each tag as a heading and then each show 
having it's own line with a complete line of title text ?



regards

Ken.



On 2022-08-02 17:29, Mike Ray wrote:


Hello Dave

Apologies for top-posting.

If you can get your hands on the bootstrap3 style css, search for 
'sr-only'.


I suggest you might want to create a bogus tag "a11y" with a link 
to a bogus show, and when you have done that let me know.


Although of course the styling is probably done in a loop, so any 
style applied will be applied to all?


And I guess what you mean buy index is that you want any tag to 
appear on the page only once, but then be followed by a column to 
the right with the show numbers.


I'm sorry to moan about this, but running down a list is very, very 
annoying when meaningful entry is not included in the link.


In the case of the HPR tags page, I just get number after number, 
and on a lot of pages, as I suggested before, it is only ever the 
word 'here' that is linked.


Jumping either forwards or backwards through links with 'k' or 
'shift k', I have no idea when I have landed on a link I want.


Perhaps we can do some trials, and give me the nod each time you 
made an update.



PHP? Yuck. Dancer2 is where it's at Dave. All the Perl happenin' 
dudes are there.



Mike








On 02/08/2022 14:17, Dave Morriss wrote:

On 01/08/2022 21:09, Mike Ray wrote:


Hello

I just spotted a glaring accessibility issue on the HPR site.


I just listened to the community news, published today, and heard 
mention of a show about Kafka. Which I need to know about right 
now for work.


So I went to the site and to the tags page.

Running down the list of tags that begin with the letter 'K', I 
found:


• kafka: 3639

That's fine, but only the 3639 bit is included in the link.

So, when I hit the 'k' button to navigate by links in NVDA, a 
Windows screen reader, all I get is number after number. I 
believe all major screen readers include a key to jump from link 
to link.


No idea which is the Kafka show.

So, the link needs to be changed to include the tag in the anchor.

I have mentioned this before, that anchors should include the 
full text that describe the link, not just the word 'here' as in 
"click here to learn about invisible giraffes with six legs".


I would want the whole thing in the link, so that I could find 
the link about invisible giraffes with six legs, and not just 
"here, here, here, here, here" AARGH!


I don't know how I missed that when it was published. But I am 
one of those people who screw up the stats, because I delete most 
shows based on the title, after making sure it is not one of my 
"must listen" list of hosts. Linux Inlaws is not one of those.


Mike


Hi Mike,

I must apologise for this problem; the page is something I 
designed and constructed myself. For new readers, we're talking 
about https://hackerpublicradio.org/tags.php.


I wanted the page to be like an index in a book with the keyword 
(tag) on the left, followed by a list of the page (show) numbers. 
As I

Re: [Hpr] Accessibility problem

[Ken Fallon]

tions' 
(ARIA) in my research, and see that I could add these types of 
attributes.


What do you think?

Dave






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Re: [Hpr] Changes to the website - please report odd, behaviour.

[Ken Fallon]

@Josh - one for you.

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On 2022-07-21 22:42, Christoph Zimmermann wrote:

Hi Ken / Janitors,

Any chance to get the old gitlab instance up once again? I suppose if 
you want to go down the route of Linux Inlaws S01E51, a git-like 
structure may come in handy... :-)


Cheers, Chris

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Re: [Hpr] Changes to the website - please report odd behaviour.

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-07-18 20:29, Ken Fallon wrote:
The hpr website has been updated to support emails with 
.nospam@nospam. so that we can release the db easier.
This has involved a lot of changes to a lot of pages and while it all 
seems to be fine can you report any issues you see - thanks.



Seems to have gone OK.

The "Get Shows" page now has a link to the Daily Database Dump in SQL 
Format <https://hackerpublicradio.org/hpr.sql>


https://hackerpublicradio.org/hpr.sql

I'll start working on the templates for from rho`n's hpr_generator next 
to get the site produced. 
https://repo.anhonesthost.net/rho_n/hpr_generator. First focusing on the 
static pages not linked to the database.


However don't let that stop you. Have a look at the database and see how 
you can produce your own mirror site with your tool of choice.


---

We've held back on the comments and the reservations table from the 
database export for now.


Expect the comments to be added shortly. I'm looking from some trusted 
experts to audit the php code behind the comment system. Recommendations 
welcome please.


The reservations table schema will be made public with the reservations 
system although I doubt that the data will ever be published. Publishing 
it adds no value as the entries are removed once the show is posted, and 
it contains the hosts ipaddress.


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[Hpr] Changes to the website - please report odd behaviour.

[Ken Fallon]

The hpr website has been updated to support emails with .nospam@nospam. 
so that we can release the db easier.
This has involved a lot of changes to a lot of pages and while it all 
seems to be fine can you report any issues you see - thanks.


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Re: [Hpr] Source Code for the HPR website

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-06-27 07:28, Christoph Zimmermann wrote:


As I'm sure I'm not the only host using some background magic for 
automatic uploads of episodes as part of the Podcast production 
workflow (which is a pain due to potential changes in the upload page 
structure, etc. which can easily break the workflow) I volunteer for 
the API design / implementation. Ken and myself discussed this some 
years back and some initial design should be on the HPR gitlab 
instance (@Ken: This instance / server seems to be offline - do you 
have access to the document I am referring to?).


Sorry missed this and only pegged it during the community news.

As I explain in the Community News tomorrow, phase one will not deal 
with the upload process or the comments.


I would like to know who else, other than Chris, in interested in, or 
would use a API for upload ?



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Re: [Hpr] Source Code for the HPR website.

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-06-28 05:23, dnt via Hpr wrote:

Is there some reason a proper database just for storage would really be better?
Yes to build and maintain the relationships between hosts, series to the 
shows. The full rss feed already contains everything that a database 
would provide, but a a database makes it a lot easier to manipulate.

In any case, I'd like to be in the loop. Should some sort of website
working group be created to have these discussions without filling up
this mailing list?


Good point. We'll move the discussion out after the community news, 
where the wider community can have their say.


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Re: [Hpr] Source Code for the HPR website.

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-06-27 17:36, Mike Ray wrote:
But for concurrent access by multiple Web visitors, we really need a 
transactional database. 


There will no longer be multiple visitors accessing the database as only 
ever one person will be accessing it (more correctly them) at any given 
time.


When a change occurs, eg., when a new show is released. Say it's Dave.

 * Check the SQL file out of git
 * Run all the processing stuff we do to post a show, and update the
   database (on his local machine)
 * Export the SQL to a file
 * Check the SQL file back into git (which triggers a RSS feed for new
   commits)

---

All the mirrors, including hackerpublicradio.org, eg me

 * RSS feed shows there is a new commit
 * Check the SQL file out of git
 * Import it into my database of choice (again single user mode on
   local machine)
 * run the static site generator
 * write out the static pages to disk on
 * rsync files to the web server root directory and to
   `rsync.hackerpublicradio.org`
 * web server serves static pages to hackerpublicradio.org and
   hackerpublicradio.kenfallon.com

Then anyone with a pi, nginx, rsync and a fiber connection may just have 
a cron job that updates their site hpr.myprovider.example.com. Runs a 
cronjob that will every hour:


rsync -av --partial --progress anonym...@rsync.hackerpublicradio.org 
/var/www/html/



Now if you decide to run your own deployment, you are free to

 * RSS feed shows there is a new commit
 * Check the SQL file out of git
 * Import it into your PostgreSQL database
 * run `nikola build`
 * write out the static pages to disk
 * rsync files to the web server root directory
 * web server serves static pages to hackerpublicradio.raspberryvi.org

Eventually we will maintain a mirrors.txt file that will allow us to 
round robin the requests. So that when a visitor comes to DNS the 
requests can be round robined to hackerpublicradio.org, 
hackerpublicradio.kenfallon.com, hackerpublicradio.raspberryvi.org, 
andhpr.myprovider.example.com as they all will be serving the latest files.


We can only do this exactly because HPR changes (for the most part) once 
a day.


Am I explaining this correctly ?

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Re: [Hpr] Source Code for the HPR website.

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-06-27 15:10, Dave Morriss via Hpr wrote:
I'm currently looking at replacing this database system with a SQLite 
version. I think this might be the format that would be shared in due 
course.


Well I think an SQL export of the SQLite would be be the "source of 
truth", and checked into git. Anyone can get the latest change by using 
git clone, or git pull. That would include the Janitors.


The db you have been using has a better structure and could be used to 
maintain the live MySQL one on the HPR site. For now a SQL dump from 
postgres to git is fine, and the SQLite binary (via rsync and not in 
git) can follow later.


The structure is never going to be perfect but publishing it now is a 
good start to get feedback from the database heads out there. Or should 
I say `DATABASE HEADS;` ;-)


One thing we need to change is the email address of the hosts that are 
kept in the db. This will need to be converted from `joe.blogg@example 
.com` to `joe.blogg.nospam@nospam.example .com`, which is what we do 
when we publish it to the RSS feed.


https://hackerpublicradio.org/request_a_slot.php#requesting_slot

/*Note:*//This email address will be published on the HPR website and 
will be given out in the feeds, so please use a //*public 
email*//address for this purpose. Where we publish it we pad it with dot 
nospam at-sign nospam dot. //
//i.e. //h...@example.com//becomes //hpr.nos...@nospam.example.com//. If 
you do not want to have your email exposed, please contact the admin@hpr 
team to arrange a alias. /



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Re: [Hpr] Source Code for the HPR website.

[Ken Fallon]

We are publishing the data in the form of a SQL db and static HTML, and 
I'm very happy for there to be multiple ways to produce the web mirror.


[DB + Static HTML Pages] → some tech → Working site on your domain.

If there are multiple approaches then all the better. Anyone can start a 
proof of concept for their tech of your choice and record a show about it.


Ken.

On 2022-06-26 17:05, Mike Ray wrote:



I suggest that if something new is going to be developed then it 
should be in Perl, using either Dancer or Mojolicious as the framework.


This I suggest since Dave is a Perl enthusiast, and I am currently 
professionally engaged in Perl development of a system comprised of 
both CGI, and psgi components.


It could even be containerised and then easily movable from host to 
host. Using a container with nginx and uwsgi serving up the pages. And 
another container with MySQL in it.


Whatever it is, it should not be PHP. And the pages should use 
templates so as to separate back-end from front-end design work.


At a pinch, my second suggestion would be Python and either Django or 
Flask.


But there is likely to be less of a legacy of Python skills in the 
current HPR 'staff'.


Don't take this to be me volunteering to give much time, as my time is 
currently over-subscribed. But this might reduce later in the year as 
some heavy research I am engaged upon comes to an end.


I will, of course, be hauling HPR over the a11y coals if I detect any 
hint of a problem :-)


How many great shows could we get out of a complete rewrite of the 
whole enchilada?


Oh, and keep the bleeping Javascript to a minimum.











On 26/06/2022 15:26, Ken Fallon wrote:

On 2022-06-25 22:32, Klaatu wrote:

I think what you are saying is that HPR requires a full rewrite.

I think what you are proposing is that we forget that the existing code
exists, because it's not worth "saving", and instead develop new 
open source

code to replace it.

If that's correct, then I agree. Let's not dwell on broken code that 
nobody
loves, but move forward with new open source code that actually 
meets the

site's requirements (and ideally makes the admins' lives easier).

-klaatu


Yes got it in one.






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Re: [Hpr] Source Code for the HPR website.

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-06-25 22:32, Klaatu wrote:

I think what you are saying is that HPR requires a full rewrite.

I think what you are proposing is that we forget that the existing code
exists, because it's not worth "saving", and instead develop new open source
code to replace it.

If that's correct, then I agree. Let's not dwell on broken code that nobody
loves, but move forward with new open source code that actually meets the
site's requirements (and ideally makes the admins' lives easier).

-klaatu


Yes got it in one.

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Re: [Hpr] Source Code for the HPR website.

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-06-25 19:34, Kevin O'Brien wrote:

Maybe if you release it someone will clean it up. That seems like a
good outcome.


Or someone would use an exploit to take advantage of the site and put 
other sites on the server at risk.


The code is almost 17 years old and any effort to fix it would be 
massive, and require a complete rewrite.


Even if done, we would still leave a site that has requires a database 
query to generate each page. This is not efficient and is costly in 
terms of resources to our hosting platform.



I have belonged to several organizations where we had a
rule that if you complained about something an unpaid volunteer did
you were implicitly offering to take it over.


I literally am the unpaid volunteer who volunteered to take it over, and 
have been doing so for the last 10 years. So I'm complaining about it 
and I am also volunteering to write and maintain something better.


This is not some precious piece of code that defines an age. It's a 
piece of duct taped php that takes fields from a database and turns it 
into HTML. Fine for it's time but, the world has moved on.


Generating a static site from the database is ideal as a static html 
page is very difficult to hack, and means we can easily mirror it to for 
example hackerpublicradio.ahuka.com


The fact that our content changes but once a day makes the approach of 
generating static pages ideal.


With the raw SQL, anyone that wants to help can funnel their energy into 
generating a working site for us.


The sooner we move off this LAMP stack, the sooner we can stop using it, 
and the sooner there is no problem in releasing it for all to see.


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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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[Hpr] Source Code for the HPR website.

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

I had a conversation with Alan Pope on mastodon about fixing some issues 
on the HPR website. He makes the valid point that if we don't release 
the code (because it's a mess), then it's not actually open source.

https://mastodon.social/@popey/108476716097169705

Cruel but fair. Cruel but fair.

I contend that it would be crueler to release the current code due to 
the risk of eye damage that could occur.


So how to proceed ? I suggest we eliminate the problem by eliminating 
the code.


My intention has always been to have a massively multiplayer online 
mirroring service where anyone can have a complete instance of 
everything. With a combination of git, and rsync anyone would have 
everything needed to host their own complete version of the site.


We would still need to maintain the LAMP stack for the reservations and 
the processing workflow, but that code is a lot easier to sanitize and 
publish.


The site itself is made up of 3 parts

1. Static pages, like header, footer, howto's etc
2. Dynamic pages derived from the Database
3. Media, audio, video etc

The media and show notes are covered under the Creative Commons License.

I would suggest releasing the code under the AGPL v3 or later, and 
publish it to our repo on https://repo.anhonesthost.net.


Thoughts ?

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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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Re: [Hpr] Any interest in a collaborative show on shell snippets?

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-06-24 13:40, Carl Chave wrote:

HPR,

The sound quality of my segments in today's show is embarrassing, my
apologies to all listeners. I will try to improve it before submitting
anything else.

Cheers,
Carl

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No I thought it was fine.

That said there are plenty of people that have offered to mentor hosts 
on improving their audio setup.


Can I recommend Thaj Sara show in the series 
https://hackerpublicradio.org/series.php?id=45



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Re: [Hpr] Reserve Queue

[Ken Fallon]

Yip that's about right. We'll be doing call for shows now based on how 
full the reserve queue is, rather than on free slots in the main queue.


This is implementing something we talked about before but now are in a 
place where we can implement it.


I'd like thoughts on how to signal that a show can be put into the 
reserve queue ?



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On 2022-06-13 18:32, dnt wrote:
I like it but am not clear on how this differs from the current 
program. Other than the name change, is it just a matter of 
automation? Maybe encouraging a shift in focus from the calendar to 
the reserve queue?


-dnt




 Original Message 
On Jun 13, 2022, 02:05, Ken Fallon < k...@fallon.ie> wrote:


In today's show the Janitors discuss how the erratic feast/famine
nature of the queue may be helped by filling free slots in the
main feed from a reserve queue.

  * The current Emergency Queue would be renamed to the Reserve Queue.
  * If a free slot in the calendar is not filled in time, then a
show will be used from the Reserve Queue.
  * Shows will be taken from the Reserve Queue on a first in first
out basis.
  * Hosts can either schedule a show for a particular slot or have
their shows added to the Reserve Queue.
  * Eventually we will we work on a dedicated upload option, but
for now hosts can pick a random slot and just make a note in
the show notes that the show is intended for the Reserve Queue.

Thoughts ?

Why yes Ken, one thing springs to mind. Should you not first pick
hosts who have not submitted a shows recently ?

Gosh Ken. That is a good point, I'll need to think about that.

Anyone else ?

https://hackerpublicradio.org/eps.php?id=3616

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    Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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[Hpr] Reserve Queue

[Ken Fallon]

In today's show the Janitors discuss how the erratic feast/famine nature 
of the queue may be helped by filling free slots in the main feed from a 
reserve queue.


 * The current Emergency Queue would be renamed to the Reserve Queue.
 * If a free slot in the calendar is not filled in time, then a show
   will be used from the Reserve Queue.
 * Shows will be taken from the Reserve Queue on a first in first out
   basis.
 * Hosts can either schedule a show for a particular slot or have their
   shows added to the Reserve Queue.
 * Eventually we will we work on a dedicated upload option, but for now
   hosts can pick a random slot and just make a note in the show notes
   that the show is intended for the Reserve Queue.

Thoughts ?

Why yes Ken, one thing springs to mind. Should you not first pick hosts 
who have not submitted a shows recently ?


Gosh Ken. That is a good point, I'll need to think about that.

Anyone else ?

https://hackerpublicradio.org/eps.php?id=3616

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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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Re: [Hpr] Policy change: Show complaints procedure

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-06-10 18:52, dnt via Hpr wrote:

Could it make sense to specify what it means to harm HPR?


I would prefer to but specifying it as "harm" can cover any complaint. 
Have a listen the the first part of hpr3615 
<https://hackerpublicradio.org/eps.php?id=3615> (or read the transcript)


/So what attack vector will be used next, and how will we deal with it ?/

//

/I have no idea, but how to deal with it is also not so easy. We'll have 
to cross that bridge when we come to it./




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[Hpr] Policy change: Show complaints procedure

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

This policy change relates to shows that have been published but which 
may contain problem content.


For more information listen to today's show, where I suggest that we 
continue to post the shows as normal, if we get a complaint then the 
Janitors will contact the host as normal. Should the host be 
unavailable, uncooperative, or disagree, then the Janitors can either 
move the show to the backup queue, or hide it depending on the severity 
of the complaint. In all cases we'll keep the special advisory committee 
aka the auditor team of volunteers in the loop to make sure all is above 
board. The community can then decide on the best course of action. 
https://hackerpublicradio.org/eps.php?id=3615


I would like to propose the following changes to our policies.

Both relate to 
https://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#not_moderated 
<https://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#not_moderated>


Currently: "We do not vet, edit, moderate or in any way censor any of 
the audio you submit, we trust you to do that."


Proposed: "We do not vet, edit, moderate or in any way censor any of the 
audio you submit, we trust you not to upload anything that will harm HPR."


Add the line: "Any material that is reported as harming HPR may be 
unlisted until such a time as the situation can be resolved."


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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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Re: [Hpr] You want to get rid of the only hacker on HPR?

[Ken Fallon]

I want to know have any other hosts been contacting you directly(off 
list), challenging statements you may have made on the mail list, or 
anywhere else for that matter ?


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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


On 2022-05-18 18:27, Claudio Miranda wrote:

Hi Ken,

I only got the one from SGOTI.

-Claudio

On Wed, May 18, 2022 at 11:07 AM Ken Fallon  wrote:

Hi All,

I understand that this email was sent accidentally in reply to a
direct
message.

Has anyone else been sent a direct message like this ?

-- 
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


On 2022-05-17 19:46, Yung Lyun wrote:
> FROM: SGOTI (Some Guy On The Internet)
>
> Thank you for the reply anarch0re. I haven’t seen any calls for
> user/host removal; I haven’t suggested a user/host be removed.
> Suggesting the platform has only one hacker is an abrasive
statement.
>
> ___
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> Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org
>
http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org


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Re: [Hpr] You want to get rid of the only hacker on HPR?

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

I understand that this email was sent accidentally in reply to a direct 
message.


Has anyone else been sent a direct message like this ?

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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


On 2022-05-17 19:46, Yung Lyun wrote:

FROM: SGOTI (Some Guy On The Internet)

Thank you for the reply anarch0re. I haven’t seen any calls for 
user/host removal; I haven’t suggested a user/host be removed. 
Suggesting the platform has only one hacker is an abrasive statement.


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Re: [Hpr] Moving a show out ... again

[Ken Fallon]

@Jon As I stated here 
<http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2022-May/015225.html>[1], 
here 
<http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2022-May/015237.html>[2], 
and again here 
<http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2022-May/015241.html>[3]. 
the issue of Holocaust denial was with the previous show 
<http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2022-March/015174.html>[4] 
and not this one. That show was removed with consent of the host, so you 
would not be able to listen to it.


@HPR The host has again contacted us to inform us that we may remove the 
show, and they may submit an edited version later in the month.


The show is now removed. but we will still discuss it on the community 
news with a view to formalizing a procedure for dealing with 
complaints/take down requests.


1. 
http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2022-May/015225.html
2. 
http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2022-May/015237.html
3. 
http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2022-May/015241.html
4. 
http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2022-March/015174.html


--
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon



On 5/8/2022 1:28 PM, Ken Fallon wrote:


Hi All,

You may remember 
<http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2022-March/015174.html> 
that back in March a host submitted a show that we had some problems 
with. We didn't go into details at the time as I wanted to give the 
host the benefit of the doubt. Suffice to say that were the show 
posted, I was looking at a considerable fine and up to a year in 
prison. In the end the host got back to us and decided to post it 
else where. As it turns out that platform also did not post the 
content in my region for the same reasons.


We now have another show from the same host and it has content that 
would bring us other legal issues, as well as violating the terms and 
conditions of our hosting providers. The host is not responding to my 
emails, presumably they are out camping again.


While our policy on censorship states "We do not vet, edit, moderate 
or in any way censor any of the audio you submit," it continues ",we 
trust you to do that 
<https://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#not_moderated>." 
While this host was given the benefit of the doubt the first time, I 
feel that by immediately posting another show like this they have 
betrayed the trust of the Janitors, Hosting Providers, Patrons, and 
the wider HPR community.


As you can imagine even having the show in the future feed is a bit 
risky, but we can not allow it to hit the main feed until the entire 
HPR community has had time to decide how to proceed. We will bring 
this up on the next community news and allow discussions as to how we 
deal with this stuff going forward. Up until now it has not been 
necessary but alas apparently now it is.


So I am once again asking you to allow me to move the problem show 
out so the host has time to get back to me.


FYI: The cc list has been included on all correspondence.
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Re: [Hpr] Moving a show out ... again

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-05-09 14:01, Brian K Navarette wrote:

I'm confused. is it the ukraine stuff in the show that is an issue or
is there holocaust denial stuff i missed or is it calling the systemd
guy a creep the problem? it seems like what ever it is the show is on
the website and the "law" of the lowlands has already been violated.
brian-in-ohio


The issue with the previous show was Holocaust denial which is illegal 
in the Netherlands. The show in the queue has been deemed by our hosting 
provider to violate the terms and conditions of their US based ISP. I 
cannot speak to what that is.


So rather than debate the issue can people please focus on the only 
question you are been asked.


Can we move the show our to a later date - a simple yes or no will suffice.


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Re: [Hpr] Moving a show out ... again

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-05-08 23:34, DuJeon wrote:
we cannot really offer insight, or an educated response without actual 
information. i still do not know the issue with the last show, and 
"prison" should definately come with an explanation.


The issue with the previous show was Holocaust denial which is illegal 
in the Netherlands.


Google Translated:

"Article 137c 1 He who, in public, orally or in writing or image, 
deliberately insults a group of people
because of their race, their religion or belief, their heterosexual or 
homosexual orientation or their
physical, psychological or mental disability, shall be punished by 
imprisonment of not more than one year

or a fine of the third category."

http://www.wetboek-online.nl/wet/Sr/137c.html

https://www-wetboek--online-nl.translate.goog/wet/Sr/137c.html?_x_tr_sch=http&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Luckily the host removed the show as. My wife and I were not willing to 
risk prosecution, or suffer the associated reputational damage that 
would come even by been seen to be associated with the show.



this is all way too vague and amounts to a discussion around when we 
will be screening/disallowing  shows.

-brian


At this stage what I am asking for is to move out the show until the 
community can decide what to do.


Screening everything may be the way of it in the future. Don't like it, 
then if you live in the EU, then contact your rep.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_2347



Putting down my official Janitor mop of office for a minute. As I see it;

 * The Janitors should *NOT* have the right to censor a show.
 * The Janitors *DO* have the right not to post the show.

So how do we balance these ?

My own personal opinion is that the system we have in place for the last 
nearly 17 years, is working well enough. We get the shows and we 
continue to post them without vetting them. If someone complains, and 
the claims seem to be valid, the janitors should be able to notify 
everyone and postpone it's release until such a time as the community 
can decide what to do.


Pretty much what we're doing here.

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Re: [Hpr] Moving a show out ... again

[Ken Fallon]

Hi Claudio,

We're talking about the content of these shows only. I have no problem 
with the host posting other shows that do not bring the law down on us. 
While hosts enjoy the advantages of anonymity, the Janitors, Hosting 
Providers, and Patron do not. The justice system knows where we live, 
and will not afford us the luxury of 3 strikes.


--
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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On 2022-05-08 20:39, Claudio Miranda wrote:
I know it's rather simplistic and might not be the best option, but 
I'm tossing it out there: a 3-strikes policy. Maybe this time, give 
the benefit of the doubt, but with a stern warning that the next time 
it will not be allowed. Just a thought.


Claudio

On Sun, May 8, 2022, 2:30 PM Ken Fallon  wrote:

Hi All,

You may remember

<http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2022-March/015174.html>
that back in March a host submitted a show that we had some
problems with. We didn't go into details at the time as I wanted
to give the host the benefit of the doubt. Suffice to say that
were the show posted, I was looking at a considerable fine and up
to a year in prison. In the end the host got back to us and
decided to post it else where. As it turns out that platform also
did not post the content in my region for the same reasons.

We now have another show from the same host and it has content
that would bring us other legal issues, as well as violating the
terms and conditions of our hosting providers. The host is not
responding to my emails, presumably they are out camping again.

While our policy on censorship states "We do not vet, edit,
moderate or in any way censor any of the audio you submit," it
continues ",we trust you to do that
<https://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#not_moderated>."
While this host was given the benefit of the doubt the first time,
I feel that by immediately posting another show like this they
have betrayed the trust of the Janitors, Hosting Providers,
Patrons, and the wider HPR community.

As you can imagine even having the show in the future feed is a
bit risky, but we can not allow it to hit the main feed until the
entire HPR community has had time to decide how to proceed. We
will bring this up on the next community news and allow
discussions as to how we deal with this stuff going forward. Up
until now it has not been necessary but alas apparently now it is.

So I am once again asking you to allow me to move the problem show
out so the host has time to get back to me.

FYI: The cc list has been included on all correspondence.

-- 
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon

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[Hpr] Moving a show out ... again

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

You may remember 
<http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2022-March/015174.html> 
that back in March a host submitted a show that we had some problems 
with. We didn't go into details at the time as I wanted to give the host 
the benefit of the doubt. Suffice to say that were the show posted, I 
was looking at a considerable fine and up to a year in prison. In the 
end the host got back to us and decided to post it else where. As it 
turns out that platform also did not post the content in my region for 
the same reasons.


We now have another show from the same host and it has content that 
would bring us other legal issues, as well as violating the terms and 
conditions of our hosting providers. The host is not responding to my 
emails, presumably they are out camping again.


While our policy on censorship states "We do not vet, edit, moderate or 
in any way censor any of the audio you submit," it continues ",we trust 
you to do that 
<https://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#not_moderated>." 
While this host was given the benefit of the doubt the first time, I 
feel that by immediately posting another show like this they have 
betrayed the trust of the Janitors, Hosting Providers, Patrons, and the 
wider HPR community.


As you can imagine even having the show in the future feed is a bit 
risky, but we can not allow it to hit the main feed until the entire HPR 
community has had time to decide how to proceed. We will bring this up 
on the next community news and allow discussions as to how we deal with 
this stuff going forward. Up until now it has not been necessary but 
alas apparently now it is.


So I am once again asking you to allow me to move the problem show out 
so the host has time to get back to me.


FYI: The cc list has been included on all correspondence.

--
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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Re: [Hpr] Policy changes discussed on this months Community News

[Ken Fallon]

B. Clarification of the two week scheduling guideline

Remove: "5. If you are uploading a series of shows, consider 
scheduling one every two weeks."


Add: "5. Under normal circumstances any host should only schedule one 
show every two weeks."




[snip]
With regard to B. 2 Week Scheduling: This helps with keeping the queue 
stable, as it spreads out the free slots. This would not apply to 
special reservations, or guideline 2 "Always try and fill any free 
slots that are available in the upcoming two weeks." At the time of 
writing there are four weeks with no free slots, yet the four weeks 
after that are almost empty.




On 2022-05-01 15:17, Nigel Verity wrote:

Ken

While agreeing in principle with the "1 show every 2 weeks" limit 
perhaps the term "under normal circumstances" needs to be addressed.


Not really ;-) These guidelines are just that, we ask nicely but they 
have been happily ignored for the last 10 years. If a host wants a slot 
and they have a show then that's pretty much that.



Obviously when shows are in short supply that would be one such 
scenario, but when does that become recognised as an issue? Four weeks 
out, as now, it's probably not a problem but if the schedule were a 
void beyond next week, say, would it be deemed reasonable for a host 
to schedule 2 shows in a week to help fill the gaps?


Yip that's covered by the guideline to fill the free slots in the next 
two weeks. Also no problem if there is a special event that you want 
covered, or Interviews - they should also be out fast. So engage brain 
when scheduling.




Also, if there were a gap of a few days with no shows, but with others 
scheduled for later dates would you or Dave consider pulling some 
shows forwards to close the gaps?


No we don't mess with the scheduling - people get *very* annoyed if we 
did. If there are free slots, we ask people to fill them.



Ken.
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Re: [Hpr] Policy changes discussed on this months Community News

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-05-01 13:02, Dave Lee (HPR) wrote:


Hey Ken,


Amendment B makes perfect sense to me.


Amendment A is a little less straight-forward.  If I want to do a 
search for all posts related to Ham Radio, and the policy amendment A 
is in force, then I am likely to find nothing if I search tags.  It 
seems a little counter-intuitive to have to search in two places to 
find something.  I wonder - as an alternative in which I'd be happy to 
support amendment A - if it's possible to include series results in 
the tag search?




We only provide search via third parties 
https://hackerpublicradio.org/search.php so your point is moot. The Tags 
drive traffic to the host and series pages that are published as part of 
the site map. From there the visitor can get to other shows by the host, 
or other episodes in the series. We do not want them driven to a huge 
page of text that is the tag page. https://hackerpublicradio.org/tags.php


The series and host pages are linked coherently together and are 
supported by the rss feeds. So in that context having the Series names 
and host names in the tags would confuse things.


FYI:

Series have their own page https://hackerpublicradio.org/series.php
eg https://hackerpublicradio.org/series.php?id=113

Hosts have their own page https://hackerpublicradio.org/correspondents.php
eg https://hackerpublicradio.org/correspondents.php?hostid=198


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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
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[Hpr] Policy changes discussed on this months Community News

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

During hpr3586 :: HPR Community News for April 2022 
<https://hackerpublicradio.org/eps.php?id=3586> Dave and I discussed 
some policy changes that we would like to see implemented. Can you 
please provide your feedback on the following changes.


A. Tags.

The modification of tags is an ongoing process and are often modified to 
improve navigation. Host name/handle, series name should not be included 
in tags.


B. Clarification of the two week scheduling guideline

Remove: "5. If you are uploading a series of shows, consider scheduling 
one every two weeks."


Add: "5. Under normal circumstances any host should only schedule one 
show every two weeks."



With regard to A. Tags: are intended to make the site more navigable. 
They often contain duplicates, misspellings, or can be clustered into 
full blown series. The series and host names have their own navigation 
mechanism that tie into the host and the series pages.


With regard to B. 2 Week Scheduling: This helps with keeping the queue 
stable, as it spreads out the free slots. This would not apply to 
special reservations, or guideline 2 "Always try and fill any free slots 
that are available in the upcoming two weeks." At the time of writing 
there are four weeks with no free slots, yet the four weeks after that 
are almost empty.


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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
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[Hpr] Volunteer for auditor

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

I need someone impartial to be on the cc of a email I'm sending to a 
host. Any volunteers ?


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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


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Re: [Hpr] My thoughts on delaying shows

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-03-26 20:35, Xoke wrote:

We don't censor shows ever.


I wasn't going to reply to this but it bothered me so much that I can't 
sleep. The world is just not as clear cut as that.


It's all very well saying "We don't censor shows ever" when you are not 
going to be the one on the receiving end of a lawsuit.


*Personal implications for the Janitors*

The Janitors have already refused to publish a show before on copyright 
grounds for fear of prosecution. The host preferred not to remove it and 
we both brought it to the attention of the Mail List. In the end the 
host decided that they would remove the offending material. "[Hpr] 
Should we reject a show with copyrighted fair use clips in it ?"

http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2019-May/014446.html

I just saw this on YouTube "Why This Sound is Illegal to Play"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN_okCM8Orc
What if a host uploads a show with the EAS tone in there ? I sure as 
hell am not going to pony up the $5,000 to $1.9 million fine that the 
FCC dishes out ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Alert_System#Tone_usage_outside_of_alerts

*Personal implications for the Host*

Sometimes a host may unknowingly include some material in a show that 
would expose them to undesirable consequences. What if they accidentally 
record a show where their partner can be heard giving out their credit 
card or social security number in the background. What if their same sex 
partner came in to kiss them goodnight, but they have not yet come out 
publicly that they are gay. What if they take a call from their boss, 
and go on a 20 minute rant to their partner about how big a plonker 
their boss is, and ends with a "ho I need to remember to remove that". A 
fine community we would be if we just blindly sat back and did not 
protect our hosts.


To be clear none of these were the case here. But if we spot an issue, 
we have a duty to allow the host to fix it. If the host want's it fixed 
then it's not my or your place to decide for them either legally or 
morally.


All I can say is that if there is anything that falls outside what we 
all agreed, then I will try to get clarification from the community.


What *is* an issue is the possibility that we are doing this in bad 
faith. That is why there needs to be some form of oversight.


*Summary*

It's the host's show so its their choice to want to publish or not.

It's my choice to not publish it if I am going to be the one left 
holding the bag. In that case the mail list will be informed with as 
much details as possible. The oversight can help here.


Putting fixed timelines is not responsible. To take the case of the 
"copyrighted fair use clips" above, I would not have published the show, 
so the community would need time to arrange someone else to take over 
running of HPR, transferring ownership of domains, setting access lists etc.


So as StankDawg said "all of us behind HPR believe in free speech and 
are against censorship". We all need to accept that "free speech" is not 
always without cost. We are all free to decide what price we are willing 
to pay, but we are not free to impose that decision on others.


Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
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Re: [Hpr] eSpeak (don't cringe, its positive, not more banging on about how great it is)

[Ken Fallon]

On 2022-03-23 19:57, Jeroen Baten wrote:
While on this subject, I'm really curious what voice was used to made 
episode 3558 . Can someone tell?


synesthesiam/opentts:en


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Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Ken Fallon]

Thanks Dave,

I removed the show.

In other news we appear to have a call for shows open ;-)

--
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon

On 2022-03-24 23:05, Dave Lee wrote:


Hi everyone,


Ken has kindly shared with me the detail surround this particular 
episode.



I understand Ken's reluctance to publicise the full detail at this 
time, due to the potential impact on the individuals involved.  This 
situation is not as straight-forward as it might appear on the 
surface, but this not a simple case of censorship.  It is my opinion 
that Ken's dealings with this have been completely on point, and I am 
in full support of his actions.



As the host has agreed to (and, in fact they offered) the removal of 
the episode from being published on HPR, that is what I recommend is done.



Many thanks,

Dave


via Newton Mail 
<https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=ta=10.0.95=11=email_footer_2> 


On Thu, Mar 24, 2022 at 7:41pm, Ken Fallon  wrote:

The host has got back in touch with me after been away for a few
weeks
without Internet access.

We now have the permission to remove the show.

I have brought this thread to their attention.

I am producing a report into the chain of events that took place.
I have
requested the community members who expressed concern about moving
the
shows review it. With the goal to report back to the list with their
opinions on the matter.
-- 


Regards,

    Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
kenfallon.com

<https://tr.cloudmagic.com/h/v6/link-track/1.0/164815954261-44b11cef-af77-ddf1-10f5-fb0eefe21600/1648159527/ab80021052413da5b06e87c75d19e342/a4ee24d5dcb296762da4fa855ffedb89/490e405dd2cb400c5783b51cd228aedc?redirect_uri=https://kenfallon.com>
hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon

<https://tr.cloudmagic.com/h/v6/link-track/1.0/1648159542617789-2308826d-9534-f0b8-29d9-a37c9a4823c1/1648159527/ab80021052413da5b06e87c75d19e342/a4ee24d5dcb296762da4fa855ffedb89/490e405dd2cb400c5783b51cd228aedc?redirect_uri=https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon>

On 2022-03-23 07:46, stankd...@stankdawg.com wrote:
> Replying to the original but read all the responses.
>
> I trust Ken completely. He is only taking this step for better
communication with the contributor and the community. He has that
much respect to be open about it. Don’t overthink it.  Don’t jump
to conclusions on any reasons until the communication is complete.
You may never even find out.
>
> Also. In general, all of us behind HPR believe in free speech
and are against censorship. But just like forums or tv shows or
web sites we must have boundaries. Again I have no idea if there
are content issues with this show that cross any of those
boundaries or any show. But don’t cry censorship if I or the
admins/janitors/etc choose to disallow a show that promotes
hateful or illegal activity. That is not censorship. That is
safety and responsibility. You must trust the system and again I
trust Ken completely.
>
> Start giving these people the benefit of the doubt and assume
positive intent of the people who have been successfully running
this show for several years. I am certain that they have earned
that respect.
>
> -StankDawg
>
> Sent from my iPhone.
    >
>> On Mar 21, 2022, at 4:42 AM, Ken Fallon  wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> One of the shows in the queue has some issues. I spoke to the
host about it and it is not clear if they want to remove it or
replace it. I think they are off line for a bit as they haven't
replied.
>>
>> Can I move the show out past the Community News so that the
current slot can be freed up ? Hopefully that will give time for
the host to reply.
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>>
>> Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
>> kenfallon.com <https://kenfallon.com>
    >> hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
<https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon>
>>
>
-- 
Regards,


Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
kenfallon.com <https://kenfallon.com>
hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
<https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon>

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Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Ken Fallon]

The host has got back in touch with me after been away for a few weeks 
without Internet access.


We now have the permission to remove the show.

I have brought this thread to their attention.

I am producing a report into the chain of events that took place. I have 
requested the community members who expressed concern about moving the 
shows review it. With the goal to report back to the list with their 
opinions on the matter.

--

Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


On 2022-03-23 07:46, stankd...@stankdawg.com wrote:

Replying to the original but read all the responses.

I trust Ken completely. He is only taking this step for better communication 
with the contributor and the community. He has that much respect to be open 
about it. Don’t overthink it.  Don’t jump to conclusions on any reasons until 
the communication is complete. You may never even find out.

Also. In general, all of us behind HPR believe in free speech and are against 
censorship. But just like forums or tv shows or web sites we must have 
boundaries. Again I have no idea if there are content issues with this show 
that cross any of those boundaries or any show. But don’t cry censorship if I 
or the admins/janitors/etc choose to disallow a show that promotes hateful or 
illegal activity. That is not censorship. That is safety and responsibility.  
You must trust the system and again I trust Ken completely.

Start giving these people the benefit of the doubt and assume positive intent 
of the people who have been successfully running this show for several years. I 
am certain that they have earned that respect.

-StankDawg

Sent from my iPhone.


On Mar 21, 2022, at 4:42 AM, Ken Fallon  wrote:

Hi All,

One of the shows in the queue has some issues. I spoke to the host about it and 
it is not clear if they want to remove it or replace it. I think they are off 
line for a bit as they haven't replied.

Can I move the show out past the Community News so that the current slot can be 
freed up ? Hopefully that will give time for the host to reply.

--
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon




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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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Re: [Hpr] Auditing the janitors

[Ken Fallon]

Hi Mike,

Please take this seriously. You have no idea the amount of money the 
Janitos have to deal with.


Only yesterday we had a Nigerian prince offer us almost $ 15,000,000 
American Dollars, not to mention the issues the UN secretary general 
seems to be having with his bank account.


--
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


On 2022-03-24 09:50, Mike Ray wrote:



I've got a better idea...how about we start remembering this is a 
podcast and not Goldman Sachs?


I don't mean to be cheeky or aggressive, but the mention of 
'auditors'? Is that not going a bit far?


You're not going to be fined for non-compliance, or for underpaying 
corporation tax, if indeed anybody anywhere actually pays corporation 
tax anymore.





On 23/03/2022 20:25, Ken Fallon wrote:

Hi All,

I'd like to suggest a new thread about the need to provide oversight 
into the work of the janitors.


My initial suggestion is to have an Auditor from the Community join 
the Admin channels for the purposes of monitoring their work. This 
should be a rotating position, so that the person/people don't become 
on of the team.


They could then report to the mail list or on the community news when 
they feel that there is anything that is not above board.


Anyone got any better ideas ?







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Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Ken Fallon]

I have opened a different thread about how best to audit the work of the 
Janitors.


Moving the show is indeed becoming an issue and needs to be done this 
weekend. The initial suggestion was to move it to hpr3576 on 2022-04-18.


I suggest some of the people that objected to the move, or those who 
have concerns about the process contact me directly. I can walk them 
through the chain of events and they can report back to the list:


1. If the believe that the decisions taken by the Janitors (me in this
   case) were in good faith.
2. If they agree with the course of action suggested.

They would of course be bound to the same rules of confidentiality that 
I am.


Volunteers ?

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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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On 2022-03-23 21:15, Carl D Hamann wrote:

On Mar 21, 2022, at 4:42 AM, Ken Fallon  wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> One of the shows in the queue has some issues. I spoke to the host 
about it and it is not clear if they want to remove it or replace it. 
I think they are off line for a bit as they haven't replied.

>
> Can I move the show out past the Community News so that the current 
slot can be freed up ? Hopefully that will give time for the host to 
reply.


Here's what I'm hearing so far:
1. Our current janitors are doing a good job, and we trust them to 
make decisions that are in the best interest of the podcast and the 
community.
2. Everyone, including the janitors, would prefer a clear, objective 
process that does not depend on that trust.
3. The current process is to reach out to the contributing host, after 
the show is posted to the `future` feed, if there are any potential 
issues with it.
5. If the contributing host cannot be reached, the mailing list is 
asked for permission to move the show temporarily, until the 
contributing host responds. The mailing list IS NOT asked to make a 
judgment on the "potential issue".
4. There is an open question about what constitutes a "potential 
issue" and whether the reach-out-to-host itself constitutes censorship 
or at least a chilling effect. (I feel discussing this is important 
but that answering the immediate question of temporarily moving the 
show is pressing and needs an answer.)


Given, that the janitors are following the current process, my answer 
is "yes, move the show".


As for the rest of us, feel free to continue debating whether that 
process needs altering  I think it's a healthy discussion that 
benefits the community, and ideally, allows the janitors to eventually 
hand over their duties and retire (should they so wish), secure in the 
knowledge that the process will safeguard both the podcast and the 
community for decades to come.


Sincerest appreciation,
- Laindir

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[Hpr] Auditing the janitors

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

I'd like to suggest a new thread about the need to provide oversight 
into the work of the janitors.


My initial suggestion is to have an Auditor from the Community join the 
Admin channels for the purposes of monitoring their work. This should be 
a rotating position, so that the person/people don't become on of the team.


They could then report to the mail list or on the community news when 
they feel that there is anything that is not above board.


Anyone got any better ideas ?

--
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


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Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

I think I understand the issue here, and correct me if I'm wrong.

The fear is that the janitors are contacting the hosts directly to have 
them self censor their shows.


As we have mentioned several times on the Community News, we assist 
hosts with their uploads. This also extends to protecting the hosts as 
much as possible. For example preventing leaking of the hosts location 
hpr3564 Removing EXIF data from an image by Dave Morriss 
<https://hackerpublicradio.org/eps.php?id=3564>.


Due to our policy where "We do not vet, edit, moderate or in any way 
censor any of the audio you submit, we trust you to do that. 
<https://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#not_moderated>", 
issues often will only come to light after we post the show to the 
future feed. An example would be 10 minutes of silence in the middle of 
the show, but it can often be violation of some policy or other.


When we notice or are informed of issues, we will take up contact with 
the host to see what they wish to do. Sometimes the hosts will supply us 
with a new version, or they may ask us to release the slot so they can 
upload the show later. And sometimes they do not agree with us, and when 
that happens we inform them that we need to bring the issue to the 
Mailing list. Eg [Hpr] Should we reject a show with copyrighted fair use 
clips in it ? 
<http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2019-May/014446.html>


But as Rho`n rightly points out - how do the HPR community know this for 
certain ? This is a valid concern and should be addressed. Who watches 
the watch ?


Any thoughts or ideas ?

--

Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


On 2022-03-22 16:25, Ken Fallon wrote:

Hi Rho`n,


In this situation, we have no information to make an informed decision.


Correct.

We have to trust the Janitors claim that there is a technical reason 
to do so. 
I reread the email thread and I cannot see anywhere that I suggested 
the nature of the issue was technical or otherwise. I want to make it 
very clear that I am deliberately not saying if it is a technical 
decision or a content decision.


The vote is basically a confirmation that we trust the janitor's 
judgement on what the technical reason is. 


No it's allowing time for the host to get back to us.

If we are taking a hands off approach to all issues to avoid any 
taint of censorship, then we should not postpone any shows unless the 
host has agreed.


The whole point is that I cannot get in contact with the host. The 
last communication from them said that they would host it somewhere 
else so people can choose to listen if they like, and that they would 
mention it on their next HPR show. My last communication to them was 
to ask if they will be uploading a new version of the show.


If *we* take the decision to allow the show to be released to the main 
feed, and the host did not want it posted, then *they* have to live 
with the consequences of our decision. That is not fair.



Following the above argument, I don't consent to move the show.

Please don't take this as a lack of trust in the Janitors. 


Incorrect. Do not trust them.

As my first response puts much trust in them. I can see Ken's worry 
of just moving things without a notice, and I think moving it with a 
post to the mailing list that it is being moved for technical reasons 
would give: one, a chance for someone to object, and two, provide an 
audit trail if an issue of censorship does come up.


I always cc the Admin mail list on these communications so there is an 
audit trail. I would like more people to join the list but due to the 
volume of mails people tend to unsubscribe after a time. "Anyone who 
has shown a long term dedication to the project and is trusted by the 
community, can become an admin". 
<https://hackerpublicradio.org/about.php#governance>


Say every other post by Rho`n suddenly gets postponed ;) I feel at 
this point a vote doesn't provide much more protection from a 
censorship claim than just a post to the mailing list that it is 
going to happen.


Would Rho`n not send an email to the mail list and ask why their shows 
get postponed ? As I did when HPR started to podfade. Would word not 
leak out that there was a question of censorship on HPR ? Surely it 
would appear on twitter, mastodon, irc, matrix, not to mention other 
Podcasts ? Like it did when Klaatu mentioned on GWO that I asked him 
to replace a scary image on his avatar.


In this case you would hear from the host themselves that they tried 
to post the show to HPR but decided to move it elsewhere.


Regards,

Ken.



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Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Ken Fallon]

Hi Rho`n,


In this situation, we have no information to make an informed decision.


Correct.

We have to trust the Janitors claim that there is a technical reason 
to do so. 
I reread the email thread and I cannot see anywhere that I suggested the 
nature of the issue was technical or otherwise. I want to make it very 
clear that I am deliberately not saying if it is a technical decision or 
a content decision.


The vote is basically a confirmation that we trust the janitor's 
judgement on what the technical reason is. 


No it's allowing time for the host to get back to us.

If we are taking a hands off approach to all issues to avoid any taint 
of censorship, then we should not postpone any shows unless the host 
has agreed.


The whole point is that I cannot get in contact with the host. The last 
communication from them said that they would host it somewhere else so 
people can choose to listen if they like, and that they would mention it 
on their next HPR show. My last communication to them was to ask if they 
will be uploading a new version of the show.


If *we* take the decision to allow the show to be released to the main 
feed, and the host did not want it posted, then *they* have to live with 
the consequences of our decision. That is not fair.



Following the above argument, I don't consent to move the show.

Please don't take this as a lack of trust in the Janitors. 


Incorrect. Do not trust them.

As my first response puts much trust in them. I can see Ken's worry of 
just moving things without a notice, and I think moving it with a post 
to the mailing list that it is being moved for technical reasons would 
give: one, a chance for someone to object, and two, provide an audit 
trail if an issue of censorship does come up.


I always cc the Admin mail list on these communications so there is an 
audit trail. I would like more people to join the list but due to the 
volume of mails people tend to unsubscribe after a time. "Anyone who has 
shown a long term dedication to the project and is trusted by the 
community, can become an admin". 



Say every other post by Rho`n suddenly gets postponed ;) I feel at 
this point a vote doesn't provide much more protection from a 
censorship claim than just a post to the mailing list that it is going 
to happen.


Would Rho`n not send an email to the mail list and ask why their shows 
get postponed ? As I did when HPR started to podfade. Would word not 
leak out that there was a question of censorship on HPR ? Surely it 
would appear on twitter, mastodon, irc, matrix, not to mention other 
Podcasts ? Like it did when Klaatu mentioned on GWO that I asked him to 
replace a scary image on his avatar.


In this case you would hear from the host themselves that they tried to 
post the show to HPR but decided to move it elsewhere.


Regards,

Ken.


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Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

Thanks for your feedback, however we do not wish to move the shows 
around without the hosts permission for any reason. The queue is there 
to prevent allegations of favoritism and is succeeding in it's task.


It is also a dangerous path to go down allowing the Janitors to deem a 
show inappropriate to be scheduled for any reason. Even a valid 
technical reason could be considers censorship. Then you get to defining 
"rules" for valid technical reasons, and as we saw with the "scheduling 
rules" - they simply do not work.


So the Janitors will move shows on host permission as normal, but will 
always ask the mail list where the host cannot or will not move their show.


We will always try to provide an explanation, as we did in the past for 
special events like protests (hpr0903 :: SOPA Protest 
<https://hackerpublicradio.org/eps.php?id=0903>), or anniversaries. That 
is not possible at this stage as the host has yet to decide what they 
wish to do.


However it's also not desirable to keep postponing the shows release 
into the main feed indefinitely.


My proposal is that we schedule the show in question for Mon 2022-04-18: 
hpr3576, two weeks after the next Community News. This will give the 
host ample time to respond, and if they don't then we can discuss the 
issues in question with the wider community on HPR Community News for 
March 2022.


So do I have the consent to move the show or not ?

--
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


On 2022-03-22 00:27, Brian Navarette wrote:

I agree with Dave Lee

Brian-in-ohio

On 3/21/22 09:38, Roan Horning wrote:

I am in agreement with Dave's assessment.

--Roan

On 3/21/22 09:31, Dave Lee (HPR) wrote:
I think this is _the _key point here. I'm more than happy for the 
HPR Admins to make decisions where it is deemed inappropriate for a 
show to be scheduled for technical reasons - although not for 
content - without needing to seek permission first.



Dave



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Re: [Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Ken Fallon]

At the moment it is not clear if they have officially posted the show or 
not, so it is not appropriate to discuss the issue at this point. The 
host remains the copyright holder of the content and needs to be given 
the opportunity to decide what they wish to do.


Regards,

Ken.

On 2022-03-21 11:13, Nigel Verity wrote:
Is it a technical issue or one of content? If the latter then it might 
have connotations for the community to discuss.


Beeza

21 Mar 2022 08:45:45 Andrew Conway :

Fine by me.

Andrew

On Mon, 21 Mar 2022, 08:43 Ken Fallon,  wrote:

Hi All,

One of the shows in the queue has some issues. I spoke to the
host about
it and it is not clear if they want to remove it or replace
it. I think
they are off line for a bit as they haven't replied.

Can I move the show out past the Community News so that the
current slot
can be freed up ? Hopefully that will give time for the host
to reply.

-- 
Regards,


Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com

<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fkenfallon.com%2F=04%7C01%7C%7Ce257d458e5ab48a42a5208da0b172f17%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637834491454698318%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000=Ug7TFomzQxLWenHjfLSUlyu6QjpjLz1Rer400%2FNCzC0%3D=0>

https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon

<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhackerpublicradio.org%2Fhosts%2Fken_fallon=04%7C01%7C%7Ce257d458e5ab48a42a5208da0b172f17%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637834491454698318%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000=Zw1acbgqEIvS6cCS2PjlNjFB6fjBQDxD%2FmUuD8tnUKg%3D=0>



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[Hpr] Permission to move out a show

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

One of the shows in the queue has some issues. I spoke to the host about 
it and it is not clear if they want to remove it or replace it. I think 
they are off line for a bit as they haven't replied.


Can I move the show out past the Community News so that the current slot 
can be freed up ? Hopefully that will give time for the host to reply.


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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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[Hpr] Call for shows

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

Can anyone who has shows in the pipe line please send them in, even if 
you have posted in the last 14 days.


The queue is constantly low, so can you also please make an effort to 
encourage other people to submit shows.


Contact other podcasters, bring it up in work, discuss it at your ham 
club, talk about it at your RPG sessions, embroider it in your arts and 
crafts sessions, etc.



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[Hpr] call for shows

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

We have a slot free for next week, Tue 2022-02-22: hpr3537.

Has anyone (who has not submitted a show in the last 14 days) got one 
ready to rock ?


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Re: [Hpr] takov751

[Ken Fallon]

Hi Mike,

As a TTS engine for reading the screen back to me I am more than happy 
with it and use it continually during the day. It's not just visually 
impaired people that rely on TTS. It does that job and does it well.


The objection I have to using espeak as the voice of HPR is that it is 
harsh, unfriendly and not welcoming, its so bad in fact that it makes 
kids cry. I speak from personal experience. When my kids were small I 
made a project based on espeak (in English) for them to interact with. 
It was a disaster. When the espeak voice started speaking they got 
scared, started to cry, ran away, and never wanted to have anything to 
do with it again.


Over the years the biggest objection to the TTS on HPR has been the 
espeak voice. It has also been the biggest point of negative feedback I 
get when trying to promote HPR to potential interviewees or projects.


If those are not valid enough reasons then I don't know what will 
convince you. I can also assure you my desktop wallpaper is the default 
supplied with my distro.


In the past it has been argued that the more natural voices are 
difficult to understand when sped up. So I took the two most natural 
voices from the list and posted a side by side comparison to espeak at 
150%, 200%, 250%,  300%, 350%, 400%, 450%, and 500%. In my opinion the 
coqui-tts_en_en_ljspeech is more understandable than espeak at every speed.


Can everyone have a listen to this and tell me your preference
https://hackerpublicradio.org/tts-espeak-ljspeech-vctk-normal-150-200-250-300-350-400-450-500-percent.ogg

Ken.



On 2022-01-11 14:35, Mike Ray wrote:



And here was me thinking about posting to the list about how much 
better  it is now with the softer music in the background and a nice 
punchy eSpeak voice.


I still have no idea what the objection to the eSpeak voice is.

If you spend as many hours a day coding as I do, and rely on tts to 
make this possible, then eSpeak is the way forward. Although I know 
this may only be true for English speakers. Not sure how good eSpeak 
is at other languages.


People who complain about eSpeak are probably the same people who 
never get any work done because they are constantly fiddling with the 
desktop wallpaper.


:-p





On 11/01/2022 10:44, Ken Fallon wrote:

Hi All,

We got a comment from takov751 via https://matrix.to/#/#hpr:matrix.org



Greetings i am a long listener of the shows . And of course planing 
to make my first show . I would like to ask question regarding tts at 
the beginning of the show usually I hear the espeak robotic voice . 
In the workflow  have you considered using mimic1 or opentts / 
Mozillatts or something along those lines ? It’s seems like these 
would be compatible with licensing as well and bir more realistic 
voices . A few examples https://hub.docker.com/u/synesthesiam




Re-posted with permission

Sample voices are here: https://synesthesiam.github.io/opentts

@Mike Ray

I would like to try and get a happy balance between meeting your 
needs and having a voice that is friendly. While I love espeak it is 
not friendly - it literally put my kids in tears when they were 
younger :-)


Could you have a listen to some of the other voices and see if any of 
them come close to your requirements for TTS


FYI I find these two "friendly"

  * https://synesthesiam.github.io/opentts/#coqui-tts_en_en_ljspeech
  * https://synesthesiam.github.io/opentts/#coqui-tts_en_en_vctk







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[Hpr] takov751

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

We got a comment from takov751 via https://matrix.to/#/#hpr:matrix.org



Greetings i am a long listener of the shows . And of course planing to 
make my first show . I would like to ask question regarding tts at the 
beginning of the show usually I hear the espeak robotic voice . In the 
workflow  have you considered using mimic1 or opentts / Mozillatts or 
something along those lines ? It’s seems like these would be compatible 
with licensing as well and bir more realistic voices . A few examples 
https://hub.docker.com/u/synesthesiam




Re-posted with permission

Sample voices are here: https://synesthesiam.github.io/opentts

@Mike Ray

I would like to try and get a happy balance between meeting your needs 
and having a voice that is friendly. While I love espeak it is not 
friendly - it literally put my kids in tears when they were younger :-)


Could you have a listen to some of the other voices and see if any of 
them come close to your requirements for TTS


FYI I find these two "friendly"

 * https://synesthesiam.github.io/opentts/#coqui-tts_en_en_ljspeech
 * https://synesthesiam.github.io/opentts/#coqui-tts_en_en_vctk

--
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
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Re: [Hpr] Calendar on the main page

[Ken Fallon]

Hi Archer72

The *⇧Upload⇧* <https://hackerpublicradio.org/calendar.php>button will 
bring you there. It should be on every page on the site.


--
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


On 2022-01-07 16:27, Mark Rice wrote:

Hi all,

What do you think about also placing a link to the show calendar on 
the main page?


Archer72
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Re: [Hpr] Call for shows

[Ken Fallon]

Yes - the most current one is now.

Ken

On 2022-01-05 16:55, Dave Lee wrote:
Took me a moment, but are those all the occasions where you've had to 
put out a call for shows?



Dave


via Newton Mail 
<https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pa=10.0.95=11=email_footer_2> 

On Wed, Jan 05, 2022 at 3:35pm, Ken Fallon <mailto:k...@fallon.ie>> wrote:


1641396757 2022-01-05T15:32:37Z Wednesday
1627460501 2021-07-28T08:21:41Z Wednesday
1618401664 2021-04-14T12:01:04Z Wednesday
1615549307 2021-03-12T11:41:47Z Friday
1603369530 2020-10-22T12:25:30Z Thursday
1595498804 2020-07-23T10:06:44Z Thursday
1582556251 2020-02-24T14:57:31Z Monday
1566030527 2019-08-17T08:28:47Z Saturday
1547580463 2019-01-15T19:27:43Z Tuesday
1527095553 2018-05-23T17:12:33Z Wednesday
1512218590 2017-12-02T12:43:10Z Saturday
1502911228 2017-08-16T19:20:28Z Wednesday
1471276705 2016-08-15T15:58:25Z Monday
1459880408 2016-04-05T18:20:08Z Tuesday
1452079169 2016-01-06T11:19:29Z Wednesday
1431106350 2015-05-08T17:32:30Z Friday
1426665764 2015-03-18T08:02:44Z Wednesday
1412090936 2014-09-30T15:28:56Z Tuesday
1399881603 2014-05-12T08:00:03Z Monday
1399704279 2014-05-10T06:44:39Z Saturday
1397666589 2014-04-16T16:43:09Z Wednesday

-- 
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


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[Hpr] Call for shows

[Ken Fallon]

1641396757 2022-01-05T15:32:37Z Wednesday
1627460501 2021-07-28T08:21:41Z Wednesday
1618401664 2021-04-14T12:01:04Z Wednesday
1615549307 2021-03-12T11:41:47Z Friday
1603369530 2020-10-22T12:25:30Z Thursday
1595498804 2020-07-23T10:06:44Z Thursday
1582556251 2020-02-24T14:57:31Z Monday
1566030527 2019-08-17T08:28:47Z Saturday
1547580463 2019-01-15T19:27:43Z Tuesday
1527095553 2018-05-23T17:12:33Z Wednesday
1512218590 2017-12-02T12:43:10Z Saturday
1502911228 2017-08-16T19:20:28Z Wednesday
1471276705 2016-08-15T15:58:25Z Monday
1459880408 2016-04-05T18:20:08Z Tuesday
1452079169 2016-01-06T11:19:29Z Wednesday
1431106350 2015-05-08T17:32:30Z Friday
1426665764 2015-03-18T08:02:44Z Wednesday
1412090936 2014-09-30T15:28:56Z Tuesday
1399881603 2014-05-12T08:00:03Z Monday
1399704279 2014-05-10T06:44:39Z Saturday
1397666589 2014-04-16T16:43:09Z Wednesday

--
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
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Re: [Hpr] New Year Show Live Stream?

[Ken Fallon]

HPR New Years Eve Show starts in an hour !

For the last 10 years we have been holding a online voice chat on the 
HPR Mumble server, which we record and release later in the year.


We're doing it again this year, so please come along, say "hi" and join 
in the conversation with other HPR community members.


We start when the first time zone goes into the new year and continue 
for 26 Hours until on the planet is safely into 2022 !


Check out https://hackerpublicradio.org for details

Please pass this on ;-)

--
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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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Re: [Hpr] New Year Show Live Stream?

[Ken Fallon]

On 2021-12-31 07:04, Ken Fallon wrote:

On 2021-12-30 23:51, cobra2 via Hpr wrote:


I'm available for testing in the next few hours. 


The stream is not available as yet. Our normal stream provider is not 
available so we're putting something together now.


The stream is up (it helps if you turn on your headset) and we're 
recording the pre show :-)


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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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Re: [Hpr] New Year Show Live Stream?

[Ken Fallon]

On 2021-12-30 23:51, cobra2 via Hpr wrote:


I'm available for testing in the next few hours. 


The stream is not available as yet. Our normal stream provider is not 
available so we're putting something together now.


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Re: [Hpr] New Year Show Live Stream?

[Ken Fallon]

On 2021-12-30 01:24, Mad Sweeney wrote:

Hi,

Will the live stream be running for the new year show?
hackerpublicradio.org/live
If so, could the URL be added to the announcement on the main page?

Thanks

--Mad



Hi Mad,

Yes there usually is a live stream, but as it has not been set up yet 
nor has it been tested I am reluctant to link to it.



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Re: [Hpr] https

[Ken Fallon]

I see that on the main a a warning icon on the https padlock saying 
"Parts of this page are not secure". I imagine this is what Chris was 
talking about originally. I will look into why this is happening and 
attempt to fix it over the holiday period.


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Re: [Hpr] HPR Mumble server info on the Web site

[Ken Fallon]

On 2021-12-26 12:02, Tony Hughes wrote:
Hi Ken and all those who work in the background keeping HPR Going. 
Just to say all the promotions for the New Year show say get the 
details of how to log on from the website but I've looked all over and 
can not find them on there. Not a problem for me as I have the details 
but I know folk that have asked me how to get them as they could not 
find them either.




I didn't put the info up as yet because it's not time.

Should I publish the details now ?

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[Hpr] Summary of recent policy changes.

[Ken Fallon]

I believe that the following policy changes have been accepted will be 
made over the holiday period.


This is your last chance to provide feedback.

HPR will move #oggcastplanet on libera, and we will also include links 
to the matrix, and mastodon channel

http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2021-July/014969.html

Existing shows will be flagged with the current version and new shows 
will default to "Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0)"

http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2021-August/014973.html

The Intro Outro will be changed and the upload form will remove the 
option to add intro and outros.

http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2021-November/015100.html

[Hpr] Policy Change: Removal of "by arranged permission" when posting to HPR
http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2021-December/015114.html

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Re: [Hpr] https

[Ken Fallon]

On 2021-12-22 01:27, dnt via Hpr wrote:

I noticed today that the links in the navigation bar of hackerpublicradio.org
actually hard code the http protocol,


Bug.

Fixed.

Test.

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Re: [Hpr] https

[Ken Fallon]

Hi Chris,

> I concur with Jon and other people that the advantages of the use of 
HTTPS far outweigh the disadvantages


Yes and if this was about having a HTTPS site you would have a point.

Let's review what everyone said.

Jon's email has 2 points,

> 1. Better SEO (not sure whether that's a thing that HPR will care 
*that* much about?)
> 2. Reducing the risk of your ISP/Law Enforcement Community/Malicious 
nare-do-well being able to man-in-the-middle a connection between you 
(the browser/listener) and the web server, and inject content without 
there being some sort of obvious injection.


Both are covered by the fact we have a HTTPS site in place. Just to make 
clear what I said before, if there are any cases when you are browsing 
the HTTPS site and you are getting HTTP content then that is a bug which 
we will fix.


Kevin pointed out that if he goes to the http version of a site his 
"https everywhere" extension will send him to the https version.


Jon pointed out that that extension has been dropped and linked to the 
EFF page which says "Now that world is closer than ever, with mainstream 
browsers offering native support for an HTTPS-only mode."


> 
https://developers.google.com/search/blog/2014/08/https-as-ranking-signal


> And that goes back seven years.

Back in 2014 we got a lot of emails from Google about moving to HTTPS. 
Which we did, and issues they found, which we fixed. We still get 
regular emails whenever there is anything that the self appointed rulers 
of the Internet feel would hamper our SEO there.


So let's be clear what you are suggesting is that we remove the option 
of having a http site on port 80 and force everyone to the https site on 
443.


That will prevent claudio "vintage" computers from accessing the site 
easily. It will also prevent low cost IOT devices  like the ESP32's from 
connecting to the site. They should all be using https as well but to 
get the initial connection there is the http option available.


So given that Google have no issues with our current situation, and that 
the EFF are happy as browsers will automatically redirect to the HTTPS 
version, and that it will make life harder for hackers, I still see no 
argument for turning off http.


Again what am I missing ?

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Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
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On 2021-12-16 07:28, Christoph wrote:

https://developers.google.com/search/blog/2014/08/https-as-ranking-signal

And that goes back seven years.

It's safe to assume that search engines like Google nowadays put more 
and more emphasis on HTTPS vs. HTTP for the reasons mentioned. I 
concur with Jon and other people that the advantages of the use of 
HTTPS far outweigh the disadvantages - that's precisely the reason why 
top-ranking sites have moved to a HTTPS-only approach

long ago.

So if we are serious about the episodes being found on search engine 
result pages and thus improving HPR's popularity in general, I propose 
putting a 301 in place.


Cheers, Chris

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[Hpr] Policy Change: Removal of "by arranged permission" when posting to HPR

[Ken Fallon]

Hi All,

We require a license from the host submitting a show, as by default any 
work is considered to be "Copyright all rights reserved'.


We accept shows posted under any Creative Commons license[1], GNU Free 
Documentation License, anything in the public domain, and anything under 
a FLOSS software license.


We do not post other copyrighted content[2], even if it is under a "fair 
use" clause.


We *do* allow shows "by arranged permission"[3], where the host has 
explicit permission to submit the show. We have never had a show 
submitted under this clause.


I am now proposing that we remove that option, as even though that would 
give us permission to host it it causes problems for our listeners.


Our podcast is played in public spaces. As the content is Creative 
Commons they don't need to pay national license authorities[4]. If we 
play content that is not Creative Commons then they do.


It also would prevent anyone from knowing the rights they have without 
knowing the exact permission attached to that individual show, and been 
able to interpret what it would mean to them if they reused it.


This clause makes the whole question ambiguous because we flag our feed 
Creative Commons but the individual show would not be.


To be safe we would need to remove these shows from the main feed, and 
make it so that you would only get these special shows if you explicitly 
opt in for them. I don't see how this would benefit anyone as no one 
would be subscribed to this feed.


Proposed Change:

Removal of:
< If you are redistributing under another Creative Commons License or by 
arranged permission please make note of the restrictions when you upload 
your show. We can then signal that, so that others who redistribute HPR 
content can filter your show out.

---
Replace with:
If you are redistributing under  another Creative Commons license, GNU Free Documentation License, 
public domain, or FLOSS software license, then please signal that when 
you upload your show. We do not post other copyrighted content, even if 
it is made available under fair use, or by arranged permission.




[1] http://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#license
[2] 
http://hackerpublicradio.org/pipermail/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org/2019-May/014446.html

[3] http://hackerpublicradio.org/stuff_you_need_to_know.php#permission
[4] https://www.ppimusic.ie/using-music/do-i-need-a-ppi-licence

--

Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon
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[Hpr] Test - no need to reply

[Ken Fallon]

Test - no need to reply

--
Regards,

Ken Fallon (PA7KEN,G5KEN)
https://kenfallon.com
https://hackerpublicradio.org/hosts/ken_fallon


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