Re: Backups (was Virginia DOT outage)

2010-09-07 Thread Vernooij, CP - SPLXM
Richard L Peurifoy r-peuri...@neo.tamu.edu wrote in message news:4c85308b.1010...@neo.tamu.edu... On 9/3/2010 7:41 PM, Clark Morris wrote: On 3 Sep 2010 15:52:25 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: On 9/3/2010 5:36 PM, Gerhard Adam wrote: The way I read the articles, there was

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-07 Thread Howard Brazee
On 3 Sep 2010 17:41:48 -0700, cfmpub...@ns.sympatico.ca (Clark Morris) wrote: Mirroring will happily duplicate bad data written by a misbehaving program (or by misbehaving hardware for that matter). And a backup program will blithely copy bad data to the backup mechanism. Sure, but we can go

Backups (was Virginia DOT outage)

2010-09-06 Thread Richard L Peurifoy
On 9/3/2010 7:41 PM, Clark Morris wrote: On 3 Sep 2010 15:52:25 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: On 9/3/2010 5:36 PM, Gerhard Adam wrote: The way I read the articles, there was mirroring and the failure of primary was made disastrous by the failure of the mirroring device. If this

Re: Backups (was Virginia DOT outage)

2010-09-06 Thread Ron Hawkins
Richard, How true. I thought this was part of the thinking behind before and after batch back-ups, providing a checkpoint where an application could be restored prior to some application related error or corruption. There are a few sites that use in-system copy products (Shadowimage, FlashCopy,

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-04 Thread Rick Fochtman
--snip--- The way I read the articles, there was mirroring and the failure of primary was made disastrous by the failure of the mirroring device. If this is the case, what are the probabilities of the same thing on IBM devices

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-04 Thread Ron Hawkins
on Friday, not Monday? Ron -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Stan Weyman Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 11:23 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Virginia DOT outage There also are some fiascos

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-04 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In p06240801c8a76e260...@[192.168.1.11], on 09/03/2010 at 11:35 PM, Robert A. Rosenberg hal9...@panix.com said: Since = means set-to-the-value-of In FORTRAN, but not in all languages. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Peter Nuttall
Finnell efinnel...@aol.com Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu 03/09/2010 01:04 AM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu To IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu cc Subject Re: Virginia DOT outage My favorite was the hot-shot DBA that deleted 24 hours

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Peter Nuttall
@bama.ua.edu cc Subject Re: Virginia DOT outage unsnip- I disagree, John. Spelling is VERY important in preserving the meaning of written communications. SIGHTING, as in seeing, is vastly different than CITING

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Chase, John
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Peter Nuttall Indeed ... Personal favourite : Stationery - Office equipment Stationary - Not in motion Other rather common malappropriations: Personal vs. personnel; principle vs. principal; right vs. rite (and

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread J. D. Cassidy
..and the mouse-twitching generation's loose vs. lose. = -Original Message- = From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Peter Nuttall = = Indeed ... Personal favourite : = = Stationery - Office equipment = Stationary - Not in motion = = Other rather common malappropriations: = =

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Howard Brazee
I had a dBase application that I sent out, with full directions and routine to do backups. When a user's copy got corrupted, she realized that she usually neglected this option and before calling for help, backed up the corrupted copy over her one good backup.

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Bill Fairchild
Sighting vs. citing, homophones, etc.: Then there are all the Janus words, which are spelled the same, pronounced the same, but have opposite meanings Fortunately, there are not many. Here are a few in English: 1. cleave - to stick together or to be torn apart 2. oversight - watching over

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread McKown, John
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Fairchild Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:32 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Virginia DOT outage Sighting vs. citing, homophones, etc.: Then there are all

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread zMan
6. let -- allow, stop (e.g., in tennis) On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Bill Fairchild bi...@mainstar.com wrote: Sighting vs. citing, homophones, etc.: Then there are all the Janus words, which are spelled the same, pronounced the same, but have opposite meanings   Fortunately, there are not

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Avram Friedman
redundancy. On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 00:00:46 -0400, Robert A. Rosenberg hal9...@panix.com wrote: At 20:25 -0400 on 09/01/2010, J R wrote about Re: Virginia DOT outage: ... police are not sighting people who are stopped and found to have recently expired licenses.  If the police are not sighting them

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Clark Morris
On 2 Sep 2010 22:29:28 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: At 12:16 -0700 on 09/02/2010, Gerhard Adam wrote about Re: Virginia DOT outage: Having been in on a couple of recovery actions due to major files getting fouled up, I can believe that things could take up to a week. How do

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Fri, 3 Sep 2010 08:38:59 -0500, McKown, John wrote: One of the many reasons that I prefer computer languages. They are not ambiguous. Well, they shouldn't be. I guess you could design one where the meaning of a statement is not defined unambiguously. But it is definately implemented

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Howard Brazee
On 3 Sep 2010 06:39:47 -0700, john.mck...@healthmarkets.com (McKown, John) wrote: One of the many reasons that I prefer computer languages. They are not ambiguous. Well, they shouldn't be. I guess you could design one where the meaning of a statement is not defined unambiguously. But it is

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Howard Brazee
On 3 Sep 2010 07:22:45 -0700, paulgboul...@aim.com (Paul Gilmartin) wrote: And in common English: Generic is something that is general, common, or inclusive rather than specific, unique, or selective. (wikipedia) Esoteric knowledge, in the dictionary (non-scholarly) sense, is thus that which

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Gerhard Postpischil
On 9/3/2010 9:32 AM, Bill Fairchild wrote: Sighting vs. citing, homophones, etc.: Then there are all the Janus words, which are spelled the same, pronounced the same, but have opposite meanings Fortunately, there are not many. Here are a few in English: And potentially the most dangerous:

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Gerhard Adam
A file or database gets corrupted Tuesday evening and Wednesday morning review catches it. Meanwhile further updates have been done. How simple is the recovery and damage limitation process? This is just on scenario of failures that can take much time to fix. The problem with all these what if

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread zMan
On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 11:23 AM, Gerhard Postpischil gerh...@valley.net wrote: And potentially the most dangerous: inflammable. Mmm, no... inflammable is NEVER the opposite of flammable. That would just be wrong. -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Tom Marchant
On Fri, 3 Sep 2010 08:38:59 -0500, McKown, John wrote: One of the many reasons that I prefer computer languages. They are not ambiguous. Not ambiguous, I suppose, but sometimes counter-intuitive. What does this mean in C: If A=B then. -- Tom Marchant

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Howard Brazee
On 3 Sep 2010 08:25:13 -0700, gerh...@valley.net (Gerhard Postpischil) wrote: Then there are all the Janus words, which are spelled the same, pronounced the same, but have opposite meanings Fortunately, there are not many. Here are a few in English: And potentially the most dangerous:

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Fri, 3 Sep 2010 11:32:12 -0500, Tom Marchant wrote: Not ambiguous, I suppose, but sometimes counter-intuitive. What does this mean in C: If A=B then. I cherish languages of the ALGOL lineage for their use of = as a comparison operator but not for assignment. And some DEC languages used

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread McKown, John
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Tom Marchant Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 11:32 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Virginia DOT outage On Fri, 3 Sep 2010 08:38:59 -0500, McKown, John wrote: One

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread McKown, John
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 11:48 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Virginia DOT outage On Fri, 3 Sep 2010 11:32:12 -0500, Tom Marchant wrote

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Ed Finnell
In a message dated 9/3/2010 4:58:32 A.M. Central Daylight Time, peter.nutt...@euroclear.com writes: We had the BMC utility suite the following week Yeah we managed to justify Platinum Suite in a hurry. Paid for itself within a year.

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Ed Finnell
In a message dated 9/3/2010 8:05:24 A.M. Central Daylight Time, howard.bra...@cusys.edu writes: realized that she usually neglected this option and before calling for help, backed up the corrupted copy over her one good backup. Yeah, we had a research department have their big server

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread John McKown
More info: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9183460/Northrop_Grumman_takes_blame_for_Va._IT_services_outage -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Ted MacNEIL
I would absolutely LOVE a grass roots campaign to eliminate = as a token in any and all languages. Comparison should be ==. Assignment should be :=. In 1980, my final year at UOW, I wrote a paper stating exactly the same thing. I got a good mark, and ended up with a double major (CS Stats).

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Stan Weyman
Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Gerhard Adam Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 3:17 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Virginia DOT outage Having been in on a couple of recovery actions due to major files getting fouled up, I can believe that things could take

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Stan Weyman
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Kelman, Tom Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 8:29 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Virginia DOT outage That's my feeling also. In looking at the timeline on the Virginia Government

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Anton Britz
Summary of the article in the Computer World : 2005 : The Virginia Information Technologies Agency (VITA) outsources the management of its data centers to Northrop Grumman through a 10-year, $2.4 billion contract

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread McKown, John
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Anton Britz Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 1:28 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Virginia DOT outage snip Conclusion : So Northrop Grumman is saying, they are having

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Rick Fochtman
No argument but, as we all know, Stuff happens. Here on The List, we all have the benefit of long experience and a very high set of quality standards. Not every shop enjoys these attributes. Don't forget: the Titanic was built by people with high standards and long experience. And the Space

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Rick Fochtman
---snip Having been in on a couple of recovery actions due to major files getting fouled up, I can believe that things could take up to a week. How do major files get fouled up with adequate backups? Or audit files.

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Gerhard Adam
No argument but, as we all know, Stuff happens. Here on The List, we all have the benefit of long experience and a very high set of quality standards. Not every shop enjoys these attributes. Sorry, but that's no excuse. When someone sets themselves up as being the outsourcer and is being paid

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Gerhard Adam
That works fine for files managed by a DBMS. What about ordinary PS/PO datasets that may get updated several times between backup cycles? They need to be backed up more frequently if they're that critical. This isn't rocket science.

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Rick Fochtman
-snip-- I would absolutely LOVE a grass roots campaign to eliminate = as a token in any and all languages. Comparison should be ==. Assignment should be :=. No ambiguity there. No intuitive meaning for newbies to make an

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Rick Fochtman
--snip Yeah, we had a research department have their big server stolen from secure closet. IBM said they could replace overnight-which they did. Then our server folks got AIX up and trucking, we're ready for the backups.

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In listserv%201009030859130071.0...@bama.ua.edu, on 09/03/2010 at 08:59 AM, Avram Friedman ibmsysp...@geek-sites.com said: As an example ever since VSAM recoverable catalogs The ones that were less stable than nonrecoverable catalogs? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In a6b9336cdb62bb46b9f8708e686a7ea005d5e05...@nrhmms8p02.uicnrh.dom, on 09/03/2010 at 11:56 AM, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com said: I would absolutely LOVE a grass roots campaign to eliminate = as a token in any and all languages. Comparison should be ==. == is an abomination.

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In listserv%201009031147343643.0...@bama.ua.edu, on 09/03/2010 at 11:47 AM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com said: And some DEC languages used left-arrow for assignment when that was a prevalent graphic on Teletype print elements. (I believe ASCII usurped the code point with underscore. I

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In 1458820400-1283538012-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2998234...@bda026.bisx.prod.on.blackberry, on 09/03/2010 at 06:20 PM, Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca said: == is a good choice for comparison. It's ugly. := is ALGOL So? If you adopt := for another language then using = for

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread McKown, John
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Rick Fochtman Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 2:34 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Virginia DOT outage -snip

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Rick Fochtman
This after numerous EMC marketting reps assured me, of a period of several months, that EMC had NEVER experienced a storage failure that resulted in ANY outage. AND they assured me that no EMC customer had ever lost a single byte of data due to EEMC product failure. Repeat after me:

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Ted MacNEIL
This after numerous EMC marketting reps assured me, of a period of several months, that EMC had NEVER experienced a storage failure that resulted in ANY outage. I KNOW of one in Canada in the mid-1990's. What ever he's smoking, I'd like some. - I'm a SuperHero with neither powers, nor

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Howard Brazee
On 3 Sep 2010 12:23:18 -0700, gada...@charter.net (Gerhard Adam) wrote: That works fine for files managed by a DBMS. What about ordinary PS/PO datasets that may get updated several times between backup cycles? They need to be backed up more frequently if they're that critical. This isn't

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Howard Brazee
On 3 Sep 2010 09:51:53 -0700, john.mck...@healthmarkets.com (McKown, John) wrote: As shown, nothing because it is invalid syntax. grin But with parenthesis around the A=B, it means exactly what it says: Assign the value of B to A, then test to see if it is equal to zero or not. That is where

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Howard Brazee
On 3 Sep 2010 12:42:52 -0700, shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net (Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.) wrote: I would absolutely LOVE a grass roots campaign to eliminate = as a token in any and all languages. Comparison should be ==. == is an abomination. Assignment should be :=. There I agree, although I would

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread McKown, John
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Howard Brazee Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 3:20 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Virginia DOT outage On 3 Sep 2010 09:51:53 -0700, john.mck...@healthmarkets.com (McKown

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Rick Fochtman
-snip-- No argument but, as we all know, Stuff happens. Here on The List, we all have the benefit of long experience and a very high set of quality standards. Not every shop enjoys these attributes. Sorry, but that's

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread zMan
On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca wrote: This after numerous EMC marketting reps assured me, of a period of several months, that EMC had NEVER experienced a storage failure that resulted in ANY outage. I KNOW of one in Canada in the mid-1990's. What ever he's

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread William H. Blair
Rick Fochtman wisely noted: | Stupidity is always a reason and often an excuse. | Unfortunately, there's no vaccine for it. It would not matter if there were a vaccine. I am convinced that by the time a child is old enough to be vaccinated the disease has already taken firm hold, and the

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Clark Morris
On 3 Sep 2010 11:27:13 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: Any DASD device is going to eventually fail. If the data is not backed up efficiently (mirrored, physical or otherwise) and there aren't solid and, more importantly, TESTED procedures in place for when that failure does

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Gerhard Adam
The way I read the articles, there was mirroring and the failure of primary was made disastrous by the failure of the mirroring device. If this is the case, what are the probabilities of the same thing on IBM devices regardless of the operating system? That's probably true. After all, who would

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Richard L Peurifoy
On 9/3/2010 5:36 PM, Gerhard Adam wrote: The way I read the articles, there was mirroring and the failure of primary was made disastrous by the failure of the mirroring device. If this is the case, what are the probabilities of the same thing on IBM devices regardless of the operating system?

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Clark Morris
On 3 Sep 2010 15:52:25 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: On 9/3/2010 5:36 PM, Gerhard Adam wrote: The way I read the articles, there was mirroring and the failure of primary was made disastrous by the failure of the mirroring device. If this is the case, what are the probabilities of

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Robert A. Rosenberg
At 12:05 +0200 on 09/03/2010, Peter Nuttall wrote about Re: Virginia DOT outage: Indeed ... Personal favourite : Stationery - Office equipment Stationary - Not in motion Or President - chief official (as of a company or nation) Precedent - something said or done earlier that serves

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Robert A. Rosenberg
At 11:32 -0500 on 09/03/2010, Tom Marchant wrote about Re: Virginia DOT outage: One of the many reasons that I prefer computer languages. They are not ambiguous. Not ambiguous, I suppose, but sometimes counter-intuitive. What does this mean in C: If A=B then. Set A to B's value

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Robert A. Rosenberg
At 08:59 -0500 on 09/03/2010, Avram Friedman wrote about Re: Virginia DOT outage: Why does this outage prevent the offcers from writting tickets for expired licenses when the driver is stopped for other reasons. After all the experation date is on the drivers license? The answer

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Robert A. Rosenberg
At 01:25 -0400 on 09/03/2010, Gabe Goldberg wrote about Re: Virginia DOT outage: The problem wasn't checking license validity, it was renewing licenses. They've extended by 20 days validity of licenses which expired Aug 25-Sept 2 or so, are keeping DMV offices open extra hours and days

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-03 Thread Robert A. Rosenberg
At 14:20 -0600 on 09/03/2010, Howard Brazee wrote about Re: Virginia DOT outage: Most languages allow for A = A + 1. Since = means set-to-the-value-of this is no different than: LA 5,1(0,5) IOW: Compute the value of A+1 and store

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Denis Gäbler
of money to convert the mainframe to something else. The article above is about how great the new solution is. Denis. -Original Message- From: Dave Kopischke dgkopisc...@oppenheimerfunds.com To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Thu, Sep 2, 2010 12:43 am Subject: Re: Virginia DOT outage

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Chase, John
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of J R ... police are not sighting people who are stopped and found to have recently expired licenses. If the police are not sighting them, how are they stopping them -- and how do they know their licences are

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Mike Schwab
On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 6:50 AM, Chase, John jch...@ussco.com wrote: One might argue that the context of the original statement required citing rather than sighting, but nowadays how can one be sure? Perhaps spelling really is unimportant, so long as the correct sound is represented.  And both

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Kelman, Tom
-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Virginia DOT outage Regardless of the cause, doesn't this say more about the disaster recovery scenario than anything else? Adam -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread zMan
From another list: http://spectrum.ieee.org/riskfactor/computing/it/virginia-information-technologies-agency-believes-in-the-perfect-network-fairy -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it -- For IBM-MAIN

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Clark Morris
Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Gerhard Adam Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 2:29 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Virginia DOT outage Regardless of the cause, doesn't this say more about the disaster recovery scenario than anything

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Gerhard Adam
Having been in on a couple of recovery actions due to major files getting fouled up, I can believe that things could take up to a week. How do major files get fouled up with adequate backups? There also are some fiascos that real-time backup won't guard against. Not true. Especially when

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Ted MacNEIL
Especially when every company that does DR testing always come back proclaiming how successful the test was. Tell me about it! I was involved, as a customer, when our service provider declared a test a success when it didn't even meet more than 5 (out of almost 100) success criteria. Some

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Ward, Mike S
something to fail and once fixed it makes DR better. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 2:44 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Virginia DOT outage Especially when every company

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Ted MacNEIL
Why don't you call it an exercise instead of a test, then you can always say that in an exercise you would expect something to fail and that's the reason for the exercise. If I were the keeper of the corporate buzzwords, I would. I tried that route, at a major Canadian bank, and they told me it

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Clark Morris
On 2 Sep 2010 12:17:48 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: Having been in on a couple of recovery actions due to major files getting fouled up, I can believe that things could take up to a week. How do major files get fouled up with adequate backups? There also are some fiascos that

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Gerhard Adam
If something starts going wrong and doesn't get detected for a period of time, the backups will be contaminated from time of first failure. Getting things straightened out can be interesting. What can start going wrong that doesn't get detected? Someone's not paying attention. These issues

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Ted MacNEIL
These issues have been around for well over 40 years, and if they haven't been addressed then shame on whoever's responsible. It simply isn't acceptable to say that something got messed up. This isn't 1975. Unfortunately, everything old is new again. People who don't learn from history ... I

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Ed Finnell
In a message dated 9/2/2010 5:54:23 P.M. Central Daylight Time, eamacn...@yahoo.ca writes: And, even though it's a best practice, if you don't pay for it, you don't get it. An application problem, followed by a procedural problem still happens. My favorite was the hot-shot DBA that

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Gerhard Adam
It turned out our contract with our service provider did not allow for the testing back-ups. And, even though it's a best practice, if you don't pay for it, you don't get it. An application problem, followed by a procedural problem still happens. I completely understand, but those aren't

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Rick Fochtman
--snip -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of J R ... police are not sighting people who are stopped and found to have recently expired licenses. If the police are not

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Rick Fochtman
---snip--- If something starts going wrong and doesn't get detected for a period of time, the backups will be contaminated from time of first failure. Getting things straightened out can be interesting. What can start

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Gerhard Adam
If the process seems to be working smoothly, who checks results? And how? We had an incident in Illinois where a license plate number was re-assigned but the database wasn't updated because the plate already appeared in the database. An innocent man was killed by State Police because the

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Ted MacNEIL
I disagree, John. Spelling is VERY important in preserving the meaning of written communications. I agree 100%! When I was an elementary school student, in the 1960's, and I did a science project, if I made a spelling, or grammatical, error, my science teacher would take up to 5% off of the

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Rick Fochtman
It happened in the late 1970's. Rick - Gerhard Adam wrote: If the process seems to be working smoothly, who checks results? And how? We had an incident in Illinois where a license plate number was re-assigned but

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Clark Morris
On 2 Sep 2010 16:16:22 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: It turned out our contract with our service provider did not allow for the testing back-ups. And, even though it's a best practice, if you don't pay for it, you don't get it. An application problem, followed by a procedural

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Gerhard Adam
That was bad programming practice even then. Especially in that timeframe when there's no question that the access method would've kicked back an error condition for attempting to replace a duplicate record. My point here, is that this is not a technology issue, but a people not doing their job

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Don Poitras
In article 4c80381e.6050...@ync.net you wrote: If the process seems to be working smoothly, who checks results? And how? We had an incident in Illinois where a license plate number was re-assigned but the database wasn't updated because the plate already appeared in the database. An

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Mike Schwab
On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 10:34 PM, Don Poitras sas...@sas.com wrote: deleted They weren't injured, but you have to believe they were pretty scared when the plane they were flying last Saturday was met by armed men screaming at them. The 'criminals'? John and Martha King. Known throughout the US

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 23:34:43 -0400, Don Poitras wrote: They weren't injured, but you have to believe they were pretty scared when the plane they were flying last Saturday was met by armed men screaming at them. The 'criminals'? John and Martha King. Known throughout the US for their many pilot

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Gabe Goldberg
The problem wasn't checking license validity, it was renewing licenses. They've extended by 20 days validity of licenses which expired Aug 25-Sept 2 or so, are keeping DMV offices open extra hours and days, and have notified police regarding the extension. And some measure I didn't quite

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Robert A. Rosenberg
At 07:23 -0500 on 09/02/2010, Mike Schwab wrote about Re: Virginia DOT outage: SPELLING-CHECKER POEM http://www.bios.niu.edu/zar/poem.html There is also Science Fiction Author Piers Anthony who in one of the first books in his Xanth Series had a character write an essay which was then spell

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-02 Thread Robert A. Rosenberg
At 12:16 -0700 on 09/02/2010, Gerhard Adam wrote about Re: Virginia DOT outage: Having been in on a couple of recovery actions due to major files getting fouled up, I can believe that things could take up to a week. How do major files get fouled up with adequate backups? Or audit files

Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-01 Thread Avram Friedman
As many of you may know the State of Virginia has been dealing with a major computer system outage impacting 24 departments. The outage has extended over 7 business days with no estimated time for repair. Most of the press that I have seen discusses driver license renewals being down to the

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-01 Thread Hal Merritt
-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Virginia DOT outage As many of you may know the State of Virginia has been dealing with a major computer system outage impacting 24 departments. The outage has extended over 7 business days with no estimated time for repair. Most of the press that I have seen discusses

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-01 Thread Ken Porowski
, September 01, 2010 2:06 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: [IBM-MAIN] Virginia DOT outage As many of you may know the State of Virginia has been dealing with a major computer system outage impacting 24 departments. The outage has extended over 7 business days with no estimated time for repair. Most

Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-01 Thread Gerhard Adam
Regardless of the cause, doesn't this say more about the disaster recovery scenario than anything else? Adam -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-01 Thread Anton Britz
Did you see the quote at the bottom of their Web page ( Looks like a typical Fox channel comment ) ? Here it is (Cut and pasted into this email ) : Note: Earlier reports that 27 agencies were impacted were incorrect. The correct number is 26. The 27th system impacted was Northrop Grumman.

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-01 Thread Dirk Johann
What we can learn here is to be more careful when using modern storage systems. They are more a computer system than storage today. And it is no matter if you have a mainframe or a Nintendo server. Both we need data to work. So if you set up your DB2 or IMS, be careful to spread logs over

Re: Virginia DOT outage

2010-09-01 Thread Gerhard Adam
What we can learn here is to be more careful when using modern storage systems. They are more a computer system than storage today. And it is no matter if you have a mainframe or a Nintendo server. Both we need data to work. This has nothing to do with modern storage systems, and everything to do

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