subject:"Re\: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0"

2014-05-08 4:54 GMT+02:00 Julio Rojas:

 You have quoted the behavior of other environments as the reference for
 the Frame environment. If I am in a, for example, Problem environment
 and I want to get out of it into the standard environment, all I have to do
 is issue a couple of returns.


Could you describe this in detail? Which document class, what kind of
Problem environment? If I use Problem from the Theorems module (or
Theorem from Beamer itself or similar), multiple returns do not get me to
Standard. The environment does not change. This is not to say that we could
not implement this (I see this point), but I do not see the behavior now.
Generally, Frame should not differ in behavior from other environments. It
is implemented as all other environments.

Regards
Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-08 Thread aparsloe



On 8/05/2014 6:25 p.m., Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

2014-05-08 4:54 GMT+02:00 Julio Rojas:

You have quoted the behavior of other environments as the
reference for the Frame environment. If I am in a, for example,
Problem environment and I want to get out of it into the
standard environment, all I have to do is issue a couple of returns.


Could you describe this in detail? Which document class, what kind of 
Problem environment? If I use Problem from the Theorems module (or 
Theorem from Beamer itself or similar), multiple returns do not get me 
to Standard. The environment does not change. This is not to say that 
we could not implement this (I see this point), but I do not see the 
behavior now. Generally, Frame should not differ in behavior from 
other environments. It is implemented as all other environments.


Regards
Jürgen

Environments like LyX-Code, Quotation, Quote, Verse and the four list 
environments all  resolve to Standard on two returns. (But Verbatim 
doesn't. Perhaps it should?)


Andrew

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-08 9:26 GMT+02:00 aparsloe:

  Environments like LyX-Code, Quotation, Quote, Verse and the four list
 environments all  resolve to Standard on two returns. (But Verbatim
 doesn't. Perhaps it should?)


Oh, I see. This behavior obviously depends on whether KeepEmpty is true or
not. Frame has KeepEmpty == true (which makes sense with empty titles).
Maybe we should have something like KeepFirstEmpty. This needs to be
discussed.

Thanks
Jürgen



 Andrew

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-08 Thread Murat Yildizoglu


Hi to all,

I have already signaled, some time ago I think, that this behaviour is 
somewhat cumbersome, and that the students (doctoral and post-doctoral 
students) to whom I was teaching LyX as a general front end to 
everything (R, PDF, etc.) were somewhat baffled by the operations 
necessary to create a simple frame. Since I was already adapted to the 
process (and automated many steps using Keyboard maestro macro player 
:-) ), I was a bit surprised by their strong reaction. So, I think that 
we should take into account these reactions.


If we can get back the switch to Standard function of the double 
returns, that would be an amelioration I think.


We had in the recent past some abusive criticisms in the list, but that 
should not make us immediately adopt a defensive discourse when a new 
criticism appears, especially if it is constructive and detailed as here.


Best regards,

Murat


Julio Rojas mailto:jcredbe...@gmail.com
8 mai 2014 04:54
Dear Jürgen, there is no need for irony on your comments. Everybody is 
doing an honest effort to work with the new Beamer environment.


You have quoted the behavior of other environments as the reference 
for the Frame environment. If I am in a, for example, Problem 
environment and I want to get out of it into the standard environment, 
all I have to do is issue a couple of returns. This behavior is 
nowhere to be found in the Frame environment, as I can issue as many 
returns as I wish and the UI will accept them. This is, at least IMHO, 
a first in Lyx.


As for the behavior after getting out of the frame title, what Neal 
was explaining is related to the previous paragraph. After issuing 
return outside of the frame title, another return should get you to 
the standard environment. Then issuing a tab would indent this 
standard environment into the Frame environment and you can keep 
working. This is the behavior I was expecting from my experience with 
Lyx and all sorts of environments. In this moment, you can issue as 
many returns as you wish and Lyx would keep adding empty white lines 
of a Frame environment. This behavior is not only annoying and 
useless, to say the least, but also is nowhere to be found in other 
environments.


I hope that you understand our concerns.

Regards.

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com mailto:jcredbe...@gmail.com



Jürgen Spitzmüller mailto:sp...@lyx.org
7 mai 2014 17:46

Which brings up another question.  Alt-A return?  How could I have
discovered this?


Reading the beamer manual perhaps? Also, the shortcut is displayed in 
the respective menu (Edit). And it is also documented generally in the 
LyX manuals.


Jürgen
Neal Becker mailto:ndbeck...@gmail.com
7 mai 2014 17:41
Which brings up another question.  Alt-A return?  How could I have 
discovered this?  If I look at Help/Shortcuts, I don't see it (or am I 
blind?)


I wish lyx had a way to discover things like emacs does.



Neal Becker mailto:ndbeck...@gmail.com
7 mai 2014 17:38
After arrow right, return.
I can type some text.  Looks nice.  Oh, it's not nested in the frame. 
 Hit tab.


Now you have Frame inside Frame.



Jürgen Spitzmüller mailto:sp...@lyx.org
7 mai 2014 17:31
2014-05-07 17:14 GMT+02:00 Neal Becker:

OK, I'm confused here.  Let's consider workflow to make a bullet
chart.


I was talking about the Standard paragraph, not Itemize.

Insert sep.  Hit return.
Select Frame
Fill in Title
oops - return in title does nothing, navigate past title (right
arrow), hit
return


Easier:

Alt-A Return
Fill in title
Arrow right
Return

Now I'm in Frame.  Certainly not what I want - I don't even know
what this frame
in a frame would do.


I do not understand what you mean by Frame in a frame. You are still 
in the same frame. Would you also say Quotation in a quotation if 
the style still is called quotation after hitting return? Or 
Itemize in an itemize? Or Theorem in a Theorem? Or, for that 
matter, Standard in Standard?


Switch to itemize
Use mouse to hit - icon to nest itemize within frame.


Yes. The same as you need to do when using itemize in an Example box, 
or Quotation, or Theorem, or ...


Jürgen


--
Université de Bordeaux http://www.u-bordeaux.fr CNRS 
http://www.cnrs.fr/aquitaine-limousin


Prof. Murat Yildizoglu mailto:yi...@u-bordeaux4.fr

GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
UNIVERSITE DE BORDEAUX
GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
MURAT YILDIZOGLU
16 AVENUE LEON DUGUIT
CS 50057
33608 PESSAC CEDEX
FRANCE

Bureau : E-331

yildizoglu.info http://yildizoglu.info

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-08 12:37 GMT+02:00 Murat Yildizoglu:

 We had in the recent past some abusive criticisms in the list, but that
 should not make us immediately adopt a defensive discourse when a new
 criticism appears, especially if it is constructive and detailed as here.


Let me stress, in case it has been conceived differently, that I am
extremely grateful for any feedback on the new UI, and I am aware that it
needs to be improved. Let me just rephrase that we cannot go back to the
2.0 UI (for the technical reasons I have explained in previous posts) and
that this UI was not changed for the sake of changing the UI, but since
this was simply unavoidable.

All feedback is received and noted.

Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:
 Let me just rephrase that we cannot go back to the
 2.0 UI (for the technical reasons I have explained in previous posts) and

Another wild idea: what about adding new frame environment containing the 
previous separator by default (kind of 2.0 behaviour if user still want to go 
that way)?

Pavel

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0


 Another wild idea: what about adding new frame environment containing the
 previous separator by default (kind of 2.0 behaviour if user still want to
 go that way)?


Maybe for beginners it wouldn't be a bad idea. Alt-P Shift-Return is faster
for experienced users, though.

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com


On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Pavel Sanda sa...@lyx.org wrote:

 Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:
  Let me just rephrase that we cannot go back to the
  2.0 UI (for the technical reasons I have explained in previous posts) and

 Another wild idea: what about adding new frame environment containing the
 previous separator by default (kind of 2.0 behaviour if user still want to
 go that way)?

 Pavel

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

Julio Rojas wrote:
 Maybe for beginners it wouldn't be a bad idea. Alt-P Shift-Return is faster
 for experienced users, though.

No, this was not intended for beginners. The need of individual separator makes 
the document
more fragile and more cumbersome in 90% of cases.

Fragile because it's easy to forget. Cumbersome because you need to insert new
environment on places where information about new frame was enough. Changing
some document into beamer used to be breeze for me - if you want it fast just go
through document and turn sections into frames, delete some pargraphs and you 
are
done. Now you have to insert mostly superficial separator and care about
nesting. Doable but steals time.

Pavel

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-08 Thread Richard Heck


On 05/08/2014 02:51 PM, Pavel Sanda wrote:

Julio Rojas wrote:

Maybe for beginners it wouldn't be a bad idea. Alt-P Shift-Return is faster
for experienced users, though.

No, this was not intended for beginners. The need of individual separator makes 
the document
more fragile and more cumbersome in 90% of cases.

Fragile because it's easy to forget. Cumbersome because you need to insert new
environment on places where information about new frame was enough. Changing
some document into beamer used to be breeze for me - if you want it fast just go
through document and turn sections into frames, delete some pargraphs and you 
are
done. Now you have to insert mostly superficial separator and care about
nesting. Doable but steals time.


No offense to anyone, but if I were Jurgen, I'd be thinking: These are 
all great

suggestions, but how long was this in master? How long did people have to
test it after alpha1?

That said, it would be great if those of us who use Beamer extensively could
come up with some concrete ideas about how the UI should work. Jurgen did
the hard work. This should just be tweaking, though perhaps the absolutely
best version involves something like a new layout tag. If so, then that 
is also

doable.

Richard

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

I feel your pain Richard, I really do. Unfortunately, I am in a phase of my
academic life in which everything is on the production branch, so testing
of Lyx RC's for my documents was a big no-no. Couldn't risk loosing time.
So, sad as it seems, I only noticed these changes after Ubuntu asked me if
I would like to update Lyx to 2.1. :(

BTW, now I understand what Jurgen meant by no need to indent the
paragraph after a frame title for the text to remain within the Frame. I
thought that by saying it was a Frame environment, the text would not
behave as a standard indented standard environment. My mistake.
Nevertheless, indentation gives a clear idea that this text belongs to this
Frame. Anyways, as I continuously use Theorems (and derivatives), I
usually found myself indenting these environments into a Frame, so
indenting standard text is kind of a natural extension for me.

Thanks for the hard work dudes. I will go back to my never-ending stream of
Beamer slides... ;)

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com


On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Richard Heck rgh...@lyx.org wrote:

 On 05/08/2014 02:51 PM, Pavel Sanda wrote:

 Julio Rojas wrote:

 Maybe for beginners it wouldn't be a bad idea. Alt-P Shift-Return is
 faster
 for experienced users, though.

 No, this was not intended for beginners. The need of individual separator
 makes the document
 more fragile and more cumbersome in 90% of cases.

 Fragile because it's easy to forget. Cumbersome because you need to
 insert new
 environment on places where information about new frame was enough.
 Changing
 some document into beamer used to be breeze for me - if you want it fast
 just go
 through document and turn sections into frames, delete some pargraphs and
 you are
 done. Now you have to insert mostly superficial separator and care about
 nesting. Doable but steals time.


 No offense to anyone, but if I were Jurgen, I'd be thinking: These are all
 great
 suggestions, but how long was this in master? How long did people have to
 test it after alpha1?

 That said, it would be great if those of us who use Beamer extensively
 could
 come up with some concrete ideas about how the UI should work. Jurgen did
 the hard work. This should just be tweaking, though perhaps the absolutely
 best version involves something like a new layout tag. If so, then that is
 also
 doable.

 Richard

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:46 PM, Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com wrote:
I feel your pain Richard, I really do. Unfortunately, I am in a phase of my
academic life in which everything is on the production branch, so testing
of Lyx RC's for my documents was a big no-no. Couldn't risk loosing time.
So, sad as it seems, I only noticed these changes after Ubuntu asked me if I
would like to update Lyx to 2.1. :(

You can still downgrade. (BUT do this only if you haven't already
saved your .lyx files with 2.1.) Go to
https://launchpad.net/~lyx-devel/+archive/release/+packages?field.name_filter=field.status_filter=supersededfield.series_filter=
, select 'Superseeded packages', then manually download the 2.0.7
packages, and install them using 'gdebi'. Consider uninstalling 2.1.0
first.

Liviu

BTW, now I understand what Jurgen meant by no need to indent the paragraph
after a frame title for the text to remain within the Frame. I thought
that by saying it was a Frame environment, the text would not behave as a
standard indented standard environment. My mistake. Nevertheless,
indentation gives a clear idea that this text belongs to this Frame.
Anyways, as I continuously use Theorems (and derivatives), I usually found
myself indenting these environments into a Frame, so indenting standard
text is kind of a natural extension for me.

Thanks for the hard work dudes. I will go back to my never-ending stream of
Beamer slides... ;)

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Richard Heck rgh...@lyx.org wrote:

On 05/08/2014 02:51 PM, Pavel Sanda wrote:

Julio Rojas wrote:

Maybe for beginners it wouldn't be a bad idea. Alt-P Shift-Return is
faster
for experienced users, though.

No, this was not intended for beginners. The need of individual separator
makes the document
more fragile and more cumbersome in 90% of cases.

Fragile because it's easy to forget. Cumbersome because you need to
insert new
environment on places where information about new frame was enough.
Changing
some document into beamer used to be breeze for me - if you want it fast
just go
through document and turn sections into frames, delete some pargraphs and
you are
done. Now you have to insert mostly superficial separator and care about
nesting. Doable but steals time.

No offense to anyone, but if I were Jurgen, I'd be thinking: These are all
great
suggestions, but how long was this in master? How long did people have to
test it after alpha1?

That said, it would be great if those of us who use Beamer extensively
could
come up with some concrete ideas about how the UI should work. Jurgen did
the hard work. This should just be tweaking, though perhaps the absolutely
best version involves something like a new layout tag. If so, then that is
also
doable.

Richard

--
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-08 Thread David L. Johnson


On 05/08/2014 09:52 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote:

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:46 PM, Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com wrote:

BTW, now I understand what Jurgen meant by no need to indent the paragraph
after a frame title for the text to remain within the Frame. I thought
that by saying it was a Frame environment, the text would not behave as a
standard indented standard environment. My mistake. Nevertheless,
indentation gives a clear idea that this text belongs to this Frame.
Anyways, as I continuously use Theorems (and derivatives), I usually found
myself indenting these environments into a Frame, so indenting standard
text is kind of a natural extension for me.

Thanks for the hard work dudes. I will go back to my never-ending stream of
Beamer slides...


I had been waiting until the end of my semester, and also waiting for 
debian testing to go to 2.1, to upgrade.  But I saw that debian was not 
upgrading until they find a new maintainer (more than I have the time 
for), and classes are done, so I compiled 2.1 today.  I looked at the 
Beamer changes first, since that would likely be the most difficult.


I was pleased to see that my old (fairly simple) Beamer files imported 
automatically.  I see now the issues with the frames.  It could be 
easier to navigate between depths and environments, and it will catch me 
now and again to remember to separate Frame environments, but it isn't 
too awkward for now.  I guess the question is whether to treat the 
beginning of a Frame similarly to the treatment of a Section, or to 
treat it more like a Theorem or quotation environment.  Following LaTeX 
treatment is probably best in the long run.  Getting out of such an 
environment could be easier.  Why does a plain frame have space for a title?



--
 
David L. Johnson

Department of Mathematics
Lehigh University

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

Nah, Liviu, thanks for the suggestion but downgrading is never a good
solution. I have been working this whole week with Beamer on 2.1 and let's
say that the new UI is the least of my concerns. ;)

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:52 PM, Liviu Andronic landronim...@gmail.comwrote:

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:46 PM, Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com wrote:
I feel your pain Richard, I really do. Unfortunately, I am in a phase of
my
academic life in which everything is on the production branch, so
testing
of Lyx RC's for my documents was a big no-no. Couldn't risk loosing time.
So, sad as it seems, I only noticed these changes after Ubuntu asked me
if I
would like to update Lyx to 2.1. :(

You can still downgrade. (BUT do this only if you haven't already
saved your .lyx files with 2.1.) Go to

https://launchpad.net/~lyx-devel/+archive/release/+packages?field.name_filter=field.status_filter=supersededfield.series_filter=
, select 'Superseeded packages', then manually download the 2.0.7
packages, and install them using 'gdebi'. Consider uninstalling 2.1.0
first.

Liviu

BTW, now I understand what Jurgen meant by no need to indent the
paragraph
after a frame title for the text to remain within the Frame. I thought
that by saying it was a Frame environment, the text would not behave
as a
standard indented standard environment. My mistake. Nevertheless,
indentation gives a clear idea that this text belongs to this Frame.
Anyways, as I continuously use Theorems (and derivatives), I usually
found
myself indenting these environments into a Frame, so indenting standard
text is kind of a natural extension for me.

Thanks for the hard work dudes. I will go back to my never-ending stream
of
Beamer slides... ;)

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Richard Heck rgh...@lyx.org wrote:

On 05/08/2014 02:51 PM, Pavel Sanda wrote:

Julio Rojas wrote:

Maybe for beginners it wouldn't be a bad idea. Alt-P Shift-Return is
faster
for experienced users, though.

No, this was not intended for beginners. The need of individual
separator
makes the document
more fragile and more cumbersome in 90% of cases.

Fragile because it's easy to forget. Cumbersome because you need to
insert new
environment on places where information about new frame was enough.
Changing
some document into beamer used to be breeze for me - if you want it
fast
just go
through document and turn sections into frames, delete some pargraphs
and
you are
done. Now you have to insert mostly superficial separator and care
about
nesting. Doable but steals time.

No offense to anyone, but if I were Jurgen, I'd be thinking: These are
all
great
suggestions, but how long was this in master? How long did people have
to
test it after alpha1?

That said, it would be great if those of us who use Beamer extensively
could
come up with some concrete ideas about how the UI should work. Jurgen
did
the hard work. This should just be tweaking, though perhaps the
absolutely
best version involves something like a new layout tag. If so, then that
is
also
doable.

Richard

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-08 4:54 GMT+02:00 Julio Rojas:

 You have quoted the behavior of other environments as the reference for
 the Frame environment. If I am in a, for example, Problem environment
 and I want to get out of it into the standard environment, all I have to do
 is issue a couple of returns.


Could you describe this in detail? Which document class, what kind of
Problem environment? If I use Problem from the Theorems module (or
Theorem from Beamer itself or similar), multiple returns do not get me to
Standard. The environment does not change. This is not to say that we could
not implement this (I see this point), but I do not see the behavior now.
Generally, Frame should not differ in behavior from other environments. It
is implemented as all other environments.

Regards
Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-08 Thread aparsloe



On 8/05/2014 6:25 p.m., Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

2014-05-08 4:54 GMT+02:00 Julio Rojas:

You have quoted the behavior of other environments as the
reference for the Frame environment. If I am in a, for example,
Problem environment and I want to get out of it into the
standard environment, all I have to do is issue a couple of returns.


Could you describe this in detail? Which document class, what kind of 
Problem environment? If I use Problem from the Theorems module (or 
Theorem from Beamer itself or similar), multiple returns do not get me 
to Standard. The environment does not change. This is not to say that 
we could not implement this (I see this point), but I do not see the 
behavior now. Generally, Frame should not differ in behavior from 
other environments. It is implemented as all other environments.


Regards
Jürgen

Environments like LyX-Code, Quotation, Quote, Verse and the four list 
environments all  resolve to Standard on two returns. (But Verbatim 
doesn't. Perhaps it should?)


Andrew

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-08 9:26 GMT+02:00 aparsloe:

  Environments like LyX-Code, Quotation, Quote, Verse and the four list
 environments all  resolve to Standard on two returns. (But Verbatim
 doesn't. Perhaps it should?)


Oh, I see. This behavior obviously depends on whether KeepEmpty is true or
not. Frame has KeepEmpty == true (which makes sense with empty titles).
Maybe we should have something like KeepFirstEmpty. This needs to be
discussed.

Thanks
Jürgen



 Andrew

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-08 Thread Murat Yildizoglu


Hi to all,

I have already signaled, some time ago I think, that this behaviour is 
somewhat cumbersome, and that the students (doctoral and post-doctoral 
students) to whom I was teaching LyX as a general front end to 
everything (R, PDF, etc.) were somewhat baffled by the operations 
necessary to create a simple frame. Since I was already adapted to the 
process (and automated many steps using Keyboard maestro macro player 
:-) ), I was a bit surprised by their strong reaction. So, I think that 
we should take into account these reactions.


If we can get back the switch to Standard function of the double 
returns, that would be an amelioration I think.


We had in the recent past some abusive criticisms in the list, but that 
should not make us immediately adopt a defensive discourse when a new 
criticism appears, especially if it is constructive and detailed as here.


Best regards,

Murat


Julio Rojas mailto:jcredbe...@gmail.com
8 mai 2014 04:54
Dear Jürgen, there is no need for irony on your comments. Everybody is 
doing an honest effort to work with the new Beamer environment.


You have quoted the behavior of other environments as the reference 
for the Frame environment. If I am in a, for example, Problem 
environment and I want to get out of it into the standard environment, 
all I have to do is issue a couple of returns. This behavior is 
nowhere to be found in the Frame environment, as I can issue as many 
returns as I wish and the UI will accept them. This is, at least IMHO, 
a first in Lyx.


As for the behavior after getting out of the frame title, what Neal 
was explaining is related to the previous paragraph. After issuing 
return outside of the frame title, another return should get you to 
the standard environment. Then issuing a tab would indent this 
standard environment into the Frame environment and you can keep 
working. This is the behavior I was expecting from my experience with 
Lyx and all sorts of environments. In this moment, you can issue as 
many returns as you wish and Lyx would keep adding empty white lines 
of a Frame environment. This behavior is not only annoying and 
useless, to say the least, but also is nowhere to be found in other 
environments.


I hope that you understand our concerns.

Regards.

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com mailto:jcredbe...@gmail.com



Jürgen Spitzmüller mailto:sp...@lyx.org
7 mai 2014 17:46

Which brings up another question.  Alt-A return?  How could I have
discovered this?


Reading the beamer manual perhaps? Also, the shortcut is displayed in 
the respective menu (Edit). And it is also documented generally in the 
LyX manuals.


Jürgen
Neal Becker mailto:ndbeck...@gmail.com
7 mai 2014 17:41
Which brings up another question.  Alt-A return?  How could I have 
discovered this?  If I look at Help/Shortcuts, I don't see it (or am I 
blind?)


I wish lyx had a way to discover things like emacs does.



Neal Becker mailto:ndbeck...@gmail.com
7 mai 2014 17:38
After arrow right, return.
I can type some text.  Looks nice.  Oh, it's not nested in the frame. 
 Hit tab.


Now you have Frame inside Frame.



Jürgen Spitzmüller mailto:sp...@lyx.org
7 mai 2014 17:31
2014-05-07 17:14 GMT+02:00 Neal Becker:

OK, I'm confused here.  Let's consider workflow to make a bullet
chart.


I was talking about the Standard paragraph, not Itemize.

Insert sep.  Hit return.
Select Frame
Fill in Title
oops - return in title does nothing, navigate past title (right
arrow), hit
return


Easier:

Alt-A Return
Fill in title
Arrow right
Return

Now I'm in Frame.  Certainly not what I want - I don't even know
what this frame
in a frame would do.


I do not understand what you mean by Frame in a frame. You are still 
in the same frame. Would you also say Quotation in a quotation if 
the style still is called quotation after hitting return? Or 
Itemize in an itemize? Or Theorem in a Theorem? Or, for that 
matter, Standard in Standard?


Switch to itemize
Use mouse to hit - icon to nest itemize within frame.


Yes. The same as you need to do when using itemize in an Example box, 
or Quotation, or Theorem, or ...


Jürgen


--
Université de Bordeaux http://www.u-bordeaux.fr CNRS 
http://www.cnrs.fr/aquitaine-limousin


Prof. Murat Yildizoglu mailto:yi...@u-bordeaux4.fr

GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
UNIVERSITE DE BORDEAUX
GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
MURAT YILDIZOGLU
16 AVENUE LEON DUGUIT
CS 50057
33608 PESSAC CEDEX
FRANCE

Bureau : E-331

yildizoglu.info http://yildizoglu.info

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-08 12:37 GMT+02:00 Murat Yildizoglu:

 We had in the recent past some abusive criticisms in the list, but that
 should not make us immediately adopt a defensive discourse when a new
 criticism appears, especially if it is constructive and detailed as here.


Let me stress, in case it has been conceived differently, that I am
extremely grateful for any feedback on the new UI, and I am aware that it
needs to be improved. Let me just rephrase that we cannot go back to the
2.0 UI (for the technical reasons I have explained in previous posts) and
that this UI was not changed for the sake of changing the UI, but since
this was simply unavoidable.

All feedback is received and noted.

Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:
 Let me just rephrase that we cannot go back to the
 2.0 UI (for the technical reasons I have explained in previous posts) and

Another wild idea: what about adding new frame environment containing the 
previous separator by default (kind of 2.0 behaviour if user still want to go 
that way)?

Pavel

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0


 Another wild idea: what about adding new frame environment containing the
 previous separator by default (kind of 2.0 behaviour if user still want to
 go that way)?


Maybe for beginners it wouldn't be a bad idea. Alt-P Shift-Return is faster
for experienced users, though.

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com


On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Pavel Sanda sa...@lyx.org wrote:

 Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:
  Let me just rephrase that we cannot go back to the
  2.0 UI (for the technical reasons I have explained in previous posts) and

 Another wild idea: what about adding new frame environment containing the
 previous separator by default (kind of 2.0 behaviour if user still want to
 go that way)?

 Pavel

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

Julio Rojas wrote:
 Maybe for beginners it wouldn't be a bad idea. Alt-P Shift-Return is faster
 for experienced users, though.

No, this was not intended for beginners. The need of individual separator makes 
the document
more fragile and more cumbersome in 90% of cases.

Fragile because it's easy to forget. Cumbersome because you need to insert new
environment on places where information about new frame was enough. Changing
some document into beamer used to be breeze for me - if you want it fast just go
through document and turn sections into frames, delete some pargraphs and you 
are
done. Now you have to insert mostly superficial separator and care about
nesting. Doable but steals time.

Pavel

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-08 Thread Richard Heck


On 05/08/2014 02:51 PM, Pavel Sanda wrote:

Julio Rojas wrote:

Maybe for beginners it wouldn't be a bad idea. Alt-P Shift-Return is faster
for experienced users, though.

No, this was not intended for beginners. The need of individual separator makes 
the document
more fragile and more cumbersome in 90% of cases.

Fragile because it's easy to forget. Cumbersome because you need to insert new
environment on places where information about new frame was enough. Changing
some document into beamer used to be breeze for me - if you want it fast just go
through document and turn sections into frames, delete some pargraphs and you 
are
done. Now you have to insert mostly superficial separator and care about
nesting. Doable but steals time.


No offense to anyone, but if I were Jurgen, I'd be thinking: These are 
all great

suggestions, but how long was this in master? How long did people have to
test it after alpha1?

That said, it would be great if those of us who use Beamer extensively could
come up with some concrete ideas about how the UI should work. Jurgen did
the hard work. This should just be tweaking, though perhaps the absolutely
best version involves something like a new layout tag. If so, then that 
is also

doable.

Richard

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

I feel your pain Richard, I really do. Unfortunately, I am in a phase of my
academic life in which everything is on the production branch, so testing
of Lyx RC's for my documents was a big no-no. Couldn't risk loosing time.
So, sad as it seems, I only noticed these changes after Ubuntu asked me if
I would like to update Lyx to 2.1. :(

BTW, now I understand what Jurgen meant by no need to indent the
paragraph after a frame title for the text to remain within the Frame. I
thought that by saying it was a Frame environment, the text would not
behave as a standard indented standard environment. My mistake.
Nevertheless, indentation gives a clear idea that this text belongs to this
Frame. Anyways, as I continuously use Theorems (and derivatives), I
usually found myself indenting these environments into a Frame, so
indenting standard text is kind of a natural extension for me.

Thanks for the hard work dudes. I will go back to my never-ending stream of
Beamer slides... ;)

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com


On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Richard Heck rgh...@lyx.org wrote:

 On 05/08/2014 02:51 PM, Pavel Sanda wrote:

 Julio Rojas wrote:

 Maybe for beginners it wouldn't be a bad idea. Alt-P Shift-Return is
 faster
 for experienced users, though.

 No, this was not intended for beginners. The need of individual separator
 makes the document
 more fragile and more cumbersome in 90% of cases.

 Fragile because it's easy to forget. Cumbersome because you need to
 insert new
 environment on places where information about new frame was enough.
 Changing
 some document into beamer used to be breeze for me - if you want it fast
 just go
 through document and turn sections into frames, delete some pargraphs and
 you are
 done. Now you have to insert mostly superficial separator and care about
 nesting. Doable but steals time.


 No offense to anyone, but if I were Jurgen, I'd be thinking: These are all
 great
 suggestions, but how long was this in master? How long did people have to
 test it after alpha1?

 That said, it would be great if those of us who use Beamer extensively
 could
 come up with some concrete ideas about how the UI should work. Jurgen did
 the hard work. This should just be tweaking, though perhaps the absolutely
 best version involves something like a new layout tag. If so, then that is
 also
 doable.

 Richard

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-08 Thread Liviu Andronic

Liviu

Thanks for the hard work dudes. I will go back to my never-ending stream of
Beamer slides... ;)

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Richard Heck rgh...@lyx.org wrote:

On 05/08/2014 02:51 PM, Pavel Sanda wrote:

Julio Rojas wrote:

Maybe for beginners it wouldn't be a bad idea. Alt-P Shift-Return is
faster
for experienced users, though.

No, this was not intended for beginners. The need of individual separator
makes the document
more fragile and more cumbersome in 90% of cases.

No offense to anyone, but if I were Jurgen, I'd be thinking: These are all
great
suggestions, but how long was this in master? How long did people have to
test it after alpha1?

Richard

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-08 Thread David L. Johnson


On 05/08/2014 09:52 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote:

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:46 PM, Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com wrote:

BTW, now I understand what Jurgen meant by no need to indent the paragraph
after a frame title for the text to remain within the Frame. I thought
that by saying it was a Frame environment, the text would not behave as a
standard indented standard environment. My mistake. Nevertheless,
indentation gives a clear idea that this text belongs to this Frame.
Anyways, as I continuously use Theorems (and derivatives), I usually found
myself indenting these environments into a Frame, so indenting standard
text is kind of a natural extension for me.

Thanks for the hard work dudes. I will go back to my never-ending stream of
Beamer slides...


I had been waiting until the end of my semester, and also waiting for 
debian testing to go to 2.1, to upgrade.  But I saw that debian was not 
upgrading until they find a new maintainer (more than I have the time 
for), and classes are done, so I compiled 2.1 today.  I looked at the 
Beamer changes first, since that would likely be the most difficult.


I was pleased to see that my old (fairly simple) Beamer files imported 
automatically.  I see now the issues with the frames.  It could be 
easier to navigate between depths and environments, and it will catch me 
now and again to remember to separate Frame environments, but it isn't 
too awkward for now.  I guess the question is whether to treat the 
beginning of a Frame similarly to the treatment of a Section, or to 
treat it more like a Theorem or quotation environment.  Following LaTeX 
treatment is probably best in the long run.  Getting out of such an 
environment could be easier.  Why does a plain frame have space for a title?



--
 
David L. Johnson

Department of Mathematics
Lehigh University

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

Nah, Liviu, thanks for the suggestion but downgrading is never a good
solution. I have been working this whole week with Beamer on 2.1 and let's
say that the new UI is the least of my concerns. ;)

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:52 PM, Liviu Andronic landronim...@gmail.comwrote:

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:46 PM, Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com wrote:
I feel your pain Richard, I really do. Unfortunately, I am in a phase of
my
academic life in which everything is on the production branch, so
testing
of Lyx RC's for my documents was a big no-no. Couldn't risk loosing time.
So, sad as it seems, I only noticed these changes after Ubuntu asked me
if I
would like to update Lyx to 2.1. :(

You can still downgrade. (BUT do this only if you haven't already
saved your .lyx files with 2.1.) Go to

Liviu

BTW, now I understand what Jurgen meant by no need to indent the
paragraph
after a frame title for the text to remain within the Frame. I thought
that by saying it was a Frame environment, the text would not behave
as a
standard indented standard environment. My mistake. Nevertheless,
indentation gives a clear idea that this text belongs to this Frame.
Anyways, as I continuously use Theorems (and derivatives), I usually
found
myself indenting these environments into a Frame, so indenting standard
text is kind of a natural extension for me.

Thanks for the hard work dudes. I will go back to my never-ending stream
of
Beamer slides... ;)

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Richard Heck rgh...@lyx.org wrote:

On 05/08/2014 02:51 PM, Pavel Sanda wrote:

Julio Rojas wrote:

Maybe for beginners it wouldn't be a bad idea. Alt-P Shift-Return is
faster
for experienced users, though.

No, this was not intended for beginners. The need of individual
separator
makes the document
more fragile and more cumbersome in 90% of cases.

Fragile because it's easy to forget. Cumbersome because you need to
insert new
environment on places where information about new frame was enough.
Changing
some document into beamer used to be breeze for me - if you want it
fast
just go
through document and turn sections into frames, delete some pargraphs
and
you are
done. Now you have to insert mostly superficial separator and care
about
nesting. Doable but steals time.

No offense to anyone, but if I were Jurgen, I'd be thinking: These are
all
great
suggestions, but how long was this in master? How long did people have
to
test it after alpha1?

That said, it would be great if those of us who use Beamer extensively
could
come up with some concrete ideas about how the UI should work. Jurgen
did
the hard work. This should just be tweaking, though perhaps the
absolutely
best version involves something like a new layout tag. If so, then that
is
also
doable.

Richard

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-08 4:54 GMT+02:00 Julio Rojas:

> You have quoted the behavior of other environments as the reference for
> the "Frame" environment. If I am in a, for example, "Problem" environment
> and I want to get out of it into the standard environment, all I have to do
> is issue a couple of returns.
>

Could you describe this in detail? Which document class, what kind of
"Problem" environment? If I use Problem from the Theorems module (or
Theorem from Beamer itself or similar), multiple returns do not get me to
Standard. The environment does not change. This is not to say that we could
not implement this (I see this point), but I do not see the behavior now.
Generally, Frame should not differ in behavior from other environments. It
is implemented as all other environments.

Regards
Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-08 Thread aparsloe



On 8/05/2014 6:25 p.m., Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

2014-05-08 4:54 GMT+02:00 Julio Rojas:

You have quoted the behavior of other environments as the
reference for the "Frame" environment. If I am in a, for example,
"Problem" environment and I want to get out of it into the
standard environment, all I have to do is issue a couple of returns.


Could you describe this in detail? Which document class, what kind of 
"Problem" environment? If I use Problem from the Theorems module (or 
Theorem from Beamer itself or similar), multiple returns do not get me 
to Standard. The environment does not change. This is not to say that 
we could not implement this (I see this point), but I do not see the 
behavior now. Generally, Frame should not differ in behavior from 
other environments. It is implemented as all other environments.


Regards
Jürgen

Environments like LyX-Code, Quotation, Quote, Verse and the four list 
environments all  resolve to Standard on two returns. (But Verbatim 
doesn't. Perhaps it should?)


Andrew

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-08 9:26 GMT+02:00 aparsloe:

>  Environments like LyX-Code, Quotation, Quote, Verse and the four list
> environments all  resolve to Standard on two returns. (But Verbatim
> doesn't. Perhaps it should?)
>

Oh, I see. This behavior obviously depends on whether KeepEmpty is true or
not. Frame has KeepEmpty == true (which makes sense with empty titles).
Maybe we should have something like KeepFirstEmpty. This needs to be
discussed.

Thanks
Jürgen


>
> Andrew
>

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-08 Thread Murat Yildizoglu


Hi to all,

I have already signaled, some time ago I think, that this behaviour is 
somewhat cumbersome, and that the students (doctoral and post-doctoral 
students) to whom I was teaching LyX as a general front end to 
everything (R, PDF, etc.) were somewhat baffled by the operations 
necessary to create a simple frame. Since I was already adapted to the 
process (and automated many steps using Keyboard maestro macro player 
:-) ), I was a bit surprised by their strong reaction. So, I think that 
we should take into account these reactions.


If we can get back the switch to Standard function of the double 
returns, that would be an amelioration I think.


We had in the recent past some abusive criticisms in the list, but that 
should not make us immediately adopt a defensive discourse when a new 
criticism appears, especially if it is constructive and detailed as here.


Best regards,

Murat


Julio Rojas 
8 mai 2014 04:54
Dear Jürgen, there is no need for irony on your comments. Everybody is 
doing an honest effort to work with the "new" Beamer environment.


You have quoted the behavior of other environments as the reference 
for the "Frame" environment. If I am in a, for example, "Problem" 
environment and I want to get out of it into the standard environment, 
all I have to do is issue a couple of returns. This behavior is 
nowhere to be found in the "Frame" environment, as I can issue as many 
returns as I wish and the UI will accept them. This is, at least IMHO, 
a first in Lyx.


As for the behavior after getting out of the frame title, what Neal 
was explaining is related to the previous paragraph. After issuing 
return outside of the frame title, another return should get you to 
the standard environment. Then issuing a tab would indent this 
standard environment into the "Frame" environment and you can keep 
working. This is the behavior I was expecting from my experience with 
Lyx and all sorts of environments. In this moment, you can issue as 
many returns as you wish and Lyx would keep adding empty white lines 
of a "Frame" environment. This behavior is not only annoying and 
useless, to say the least, but also is nowhere to be found in other 
environments.


I hope that you understand our concerns.

Regards.

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com 



Jürgen Spitzmüller 
7 mai 2014 17:46

Which brings up another question.  Alt-A return?  How could I have
discovered this?


Reading the beamer manual perhaps? Also, the shortcut is displayed in 
the respective menu (Edit). And it is also documented generally in the 
LyX manuals.


Jürgen
Neal Becker 
7 mai 2014 17:41
Which brings up another question.  Alt-A return?  How could I have 
discovered this?  If I look at Help/Shortcuts, I don't see it (or am I 
blind?)


I wish lyx had a way to discover things like emacs does.



Neal Becker 
7 mai 2014 17:38
After arrow right, return.
I can type some text.  Looks nice.  Oh, it's not nested in the frame. 
 Hit tab.


Now you have Frame inside Frame.



Jürgen Spitzmüller 
7 mai 2014 17:31
2014-05-07 17:14 GMT+02:00 Neal Becker:

OK, I'm confused here.  Let's consider workflow to make a bullet
chart.


I was talking about the Standard paragraph, not Itemize.

Insert sep.  Hit return.
Select Frame
Fill in Title
oops - return in title does nothing, navigate past title (right
arrow), hit
return


Easier:

Alt-A Return
Fill in title
Arrow right
Return

Now I'm in Frame.  Certainly not what I want - I don't even know
what this frame
in a frame would do.


I do not understand what you mean by "Frame in a frame". You are still 
in the same frame. Would you also say "Quotation in a quotation" if 
the style still is called "quotation" after hitting return? Or 
"Itemize in an itemize"? Or "Theorem in a Theorem"? Or, for that 
matter, "Standard in Standard"?


Switch to itemize
Use mouse to hit -> icon to nest itemize within frame.


Yes. The same as you need to do when using itemize in an Example box, 
or Quotation, or Theorem, or ...


Jürgen


--
Université de Bordeaux  CNRS 



Prof. Murat Yildizoglu 

GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
UNIVERSITE DE BORDEAUX
GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
MURAT YILDIZOGLU
16 AVENUE LEON DUGUIT
CS 50057
33608 PESSAC CEDEX
FRANCE

Bureau : E-331

yildizoglu.info

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-08 12:37 GMT+02:00 Murat Yildizoglu:

> We had in the recent past some abusive criticisms in the list, but that
> should not make us immediately adopt a defensive discourse when a new
> criticism appears, especially if it is constructive and detailed as here.
>

Let me stress, in case it has been conceived differently, that I am
extremely grateful for any feedback on the new UI, and I am aware that it
needs to be improved. Let me just rephrase that we cannot go back to the
2.0 UI (for the technical reasons I have explained in previous posts) and
that this UI was not changed for the sake of changing the UI, but since
this was simply unavoidable.

All feedback is received and noted.

Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:
> Let me just rephrase that we cannot go back to the
> 2.0 UI (for the technical reasons I have explained in previous posts) and

Another wild idea: what about adding new frame environment containing the 
previous separator by default (kind of 2.0 behaviour if user still want to go 
that way)?

Pavel

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

>
> Another wild idea: what about adding new frame environment containing the
> previous separator by default (kind of 2.0 behaviour if user still want to
> go that way)?


Maybe for beginners it wouldn't be a bad idea. Alt-P Shift-Return is faster
for experienced users, though.

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com


On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Pavel Sanda  wrote:

> Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:
> > Let me just rephrase that we cannot go back to the
> > 2.0 UI (for the technical reasons I have explained in previous posts) and
>
> Another wild idea: what about adding new frame environment containing the
> previous separator by default (kind of 2.0 behaviour if user still want to
> go that way)?
>
> Pavel
>

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

Julio Rojas wrote:
> Maybe for beginners it wouldn't be a bad idea. Alt-P Shift-Return is faster
> for experienced users, though.

No, this was not intended for beginners. The need of individual separator makes 
the document
more fragile and more cumbersome in 90% of cases.

Fragile because it's easy to forget. Cumbersome because you need to insert new
environment on places where information about new frame was enough. Changing
some document into beamer used to be breeze for me - if you want it fast just go
through document and turn sections into frames, delete some pargraphs and you 
are
done. Now you have to insert mostly superficial separator and care about
nesting. Doable but steals time.

Pavel

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-08 Thread Richard Heck


On 05/08/2014 02:51 PM, Pavel Sanda wrote:

Julio Rojas wrote:

Maybe for beginners it wouldn't be a bad idea. Alt-P Shift-Return is faster
for experienced users, though.

No, this was not intended for beginners. The need of individual separator makes 
the document
more fragile and more cumbersome in 90% of cases.

Fragile because it's easy to forget. Cumbersome because you need to insert new
environment on places where information about new frame was enough. Changing
some document into beamer used to be breeze for me - if you want it fast just go
through document and turn sections into frames, delete some pargraphs and you 
are
done. Now you have to insert mostly superficial separator and care about
nesting. Doable but steals time.


No offense to anyone, but if I were Jurgen, I'd be thinking: These are 
all great

suggestions, but how long was this in master? How long did people have to
test it after alpha1?

That said, it would be great if those of us who use Beamer extensively could
come up with some concrete ideas about how the UI should work. Jurgen did
the hard work. This should just be tweaking, though perhaps the absolutely
best version involves something like a new layout tag. If so, then that 
is also

doable.

Richard

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

I feel your pain Richard, I really do. Unfortunately, I am in a phase of my
academic life in which everything is on the "production" branch, so testing
of Lyx RC's for my documents was a big no-no. Couldn't risk loosing time.
So, sad as it seems, I only noticed these changes after Ubuntu asked me if
I would like to update Lyx to 2.1. :(

BTW, now I understand what Jurgen meant by "no need" to indent the
paragraph after a frame title for the text to remain within the "Frame". I
thought that by saying it was a "Frame" environment, the text would not
behave as a standard indented standard environment. My mistake.
Nevertheless, indentation gives a clear idea that this text belongs to this
"Frame". Anyways, as I continuously use "Theorems" (and derivatives), I
usually found myself indenting these environments into a "Frame", so
indenting standard text is kind of a natural extension for me.

Thanks for the hard work dudes. I will go back to my never-ending stream of
Beamer slides... ;)

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Richard Heck  wrote:

> On 05/08/2014 02:51 PM, Pavel Sanda wrote:
>
>> Julio Rojas wrote:
>>
>>> Maybe for beginners it wouldn't be a bad idea. Alt-P Shift-Return is
>>> faster
>>> for experienced users, though.
>>>
>> No, this was not intended for beginners. The need of individual separator
>> makes the document
>> more fragile and more cumbersome in 90% of cases.
>>
>> Fragile because it's easy to forget. Cumbersome because you need to
>> insert new
>> environment on places where information about new frame was enough.
>> Changing
>> some document into beamer used to be breeze for me - if you want it fast
>> just go
>> through document and turn sections into frames, delete some pargraphs and
>> you are
>> done. Now you have to insert mostly superficial separator and care about
>> nesting. Doable but steals time.
>>
>
> No offense to anyone, but if I were Jurgen, I'd be thinking: These are all
> great
> suggestions, but how long was this in master? How long did people have to
> test it after alpha1?
>
> That said, it would be great if those of us who use Beamer extensively
> could
> come up with some concrete ideas about how the UI should work. Jurgen did
> the hard work. This should just be tweaking, though perhaps the absolutely
> best version involves something like a new layout tag. If so, then that is
> also
> doable.
>
> Richard
>
>

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-08 Thread Liviu Andronic

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:46 PM, Julio Rojas  wrote:
> I feel your pain Richard, I really do. Unfortunately, I am in a phase of my
> academic life in which everything is on the "production" branch, so testing
> of Lyx RC's for my documents was a big no-no. Couldn't risk loosing time.
> So, sad as it seems, I only noticed these changes after Ubuntu asked me if I
> would like to update Lyx to 2.1. :(
>
You can still downgrade. (BUT do this only if you haven't already
saved your .lyx files with 2.1.) Go to
https://launchpad.net/~lyx-devel/+archive/release/+packages?field.name_filter=_filter=superseded_filter=
, select 'Superseeded packages', then manually download the 2.0.7
packages, and install them using 'gdebi'. Consider uninstalling 2.1.0
first.

Liviu


> BTW, now I understand what Jurgen meant by "no need" to indent the paragraph
> after a frame title for the text to remain within the "Frame". I thought
> that by saying it was a "Frame" environment, the text would not behave as a
> standard indented standard environment. My mistake. Nevertheless,
> indentation gives a clear idea that this text belongs to this "Frame".
> Anyways, as I continuously use "Theorems" (and derivatives), I usually found
> myself indenting these environments into a "Frame", so indenting standard
> text is kind of a natural extension for me.
>
> Thanks for the hard work dudes. I will go back to my never-ending stream of
> Beamer slides... ;)
>
> -
> Julio Rojas
> jcredbe...@gmail.com
>
>
> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Richard Heck  wrote:
>>
>> On 05/08/2014 02:51 PM, Pavel Sanda wrote:
>>>
>>> Julio Rojas wrote:

 Maybe for beginners it wouldn't be a bad idea. Alt-P Shift-Return is
 faster
 for experienced users, though.
>>>
>>> No, this was not intended for beginners. The need of individual separator
>>> makes the document
>>> more fragile and more cumbersome in 90% of cases.
>>>
>>> Fragile because it's easy to forget. Cumbersome because you need to
>>> insert new
>>> environment on places where information about new frame was enough.
>>> Changing
>>> some document into beamer used to be breeze for me - if you want it fast
>>> just go
>>> through document and turn sections into frames, delete some pargraphs and
>>> you are
>>> done. Now you have to insert mostly superficial separator and care about
>>> nesting. Doable but steals time.
>>
>>
>> No offense to anyone, but if I were Jurgen, I'd be thinking: These are all
>> great
>> suggestions, but how long was this in master? How long did people have to
>> test it after alpha1?
>>
>> That said, it would be great if those of us who use Beamer extensively
>> could
>> come up with some concrete ideas about how the UI should work. Jurgen did
>> the hard work. This should just be tweaking, though perhaps the absolutely
>> best version involves something like a new layout tag. If so, then that is
>> also
>> doable.
>>
>> Richard
>>
>



-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-08 Thread David L. Johnson


On 05/08/2014 09:52 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote:

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:46 PM, Julio Rojas  wrote:

BTW, now I understand what Jurgen meant by "no need" to indent the paragraph
after a frame title for the text to remain within the "Frame". I thought
that by saying it was a "Frame" environment, the text would not behave as a
standard indented standard environment. My mistake. Nevertheless,
indentation gives a clear idea that this text belongs to this "Frame".
Anyways, as I continuously use "Theorems" (and derivatives), I usually found
myself indenting these environments into a "Frame", so indenting standard
text is kind of a natural extension for me.

Thanks for the hard work dudes. I will go back to my never-ending stream of
Beamer slides...


I had been waiting until the end of my semester, and also waiting for 
debian testing to go to 2.1, to upgrade.  But I saw that debian was not 
upgrading until they find a new maintainer (more than I have the time 
for), and classes are done, so I compiled 2.1 today.  I looked at the 
Beamer changes first, since that would likely be the most difficult.


I was pleased to see that my old (fairly simple) Beamer files imported 
automatically.  I see now the issues with the frames.  It could be 
easier to navigate between depths and environments, and it will catch me 
now and again to remember to separate Frame environments, but it isn't 
too awkward for now.  I guess the question is whether to treat the 
beginning of a Frame similarly to the treatment of a Section, or to 
treat it more like a Theorem or quotation environment.  Following LaTeX 
treatment is probably best in the long run.  Getting out of such an 
environment could be easier.  Why does a plain frame have space for a title?



--
 
David L. Johnson

Department of Mathematics
Lehigh University

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

Nah, Liviu, thanks for the suggestion but downgrading is never a good
solution. I have been working this whole week with Beamer on 2.1 and let's
say that the new UI is the least of my concerns. ;)

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com


On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:52 PM, Liviu Andronic wrote:

> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:46 PM, Julio Rojas  wrote:
> > I feel your pain Richard, I really do. Unfortunately, I am in a phase of
> my
> > academic life in which everything is on the "production" branch, so
> testing
> > of Lyx RC's for my documents was a big no-no. Couldn't risk loosing time.
> > So, sad as it seems, I only noticed these changes after Ubuntu asked me
> if I
> > would like to update Lyx to 2.1. :(
> >
> You can still downgrade. (BUT do this only if you haven't already
> saved your .lyx files with 2.1.) Go to
>
> https://launchpad.net/~lyx-devel/+archive/release/+packages?field.name_filter=_filter=superseded_filter=
> , select 'Superseeded packages', then manually download the 2.0.7
> packages, and install them using 'gdebi'. Consider uninstalling 2.1.0
> first.
>
> Liviu
>
>
> > BTW, now I understand what Jurgen meant by "no need" to indent the
> paragraph
> > after a frame title for the text to remain within the "Frame". I thought
> > that by saying it was a "Frame" environment, the text would not behave
> as a
> > standard indented standard environment. My mistake. Nevertheless,
> > indentation gives a clear idea that this text belongs to this "Frame".
> > Anyways, as I continuously use "Theorems" (and derivatives), I usually
> found
> > myself indenting these environments into a "Frame", so indenting standard
> > text is kind of a natural extension for me.
> >
> > Thanks for the hard work dudes. I will go back to my never-ending stream
> of
> > Beamer slides... ;)
> >
> > -
> > Julio Rojas
> > jcredbe...@gmail.com
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Richard Heck  wrote:
> >>
> >> On 05/08/2014 02:51 PM, Pavel Sanda wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Julio Rojas wrote:
> 
>  Maybe for beginners it wouldn't be a bad idea. Alt-P Shift-Return is
>  faster
>  for experienced users, though.
> >>>
> >>> No, this was not intended for beginners. The need of individual
> separator
> >>> makes the document
> >>> more fragile and more cumbersome in 90% of cases.
> >>>
> >>> Fragile because it's easy to forget. Cumbersome because you need to
> >>> insert new
> >>> environment on places where information about new frame was enough.
> >>> Changing
> >>> some document into beamer used to be breeze for me - if you want it
> fast
> >>> just go
> >>> through document and turn sections into frames, delete some pargraphs
> and
> >>> you are
> >>> done. Now you have to insert mostly superficial separator and care
> about
> >>> nesting. Doable but steals time.
> >>
> >>
> >> No offense to anyone, but if I were Jurgen, I'd be thinking: These are
> all
> >> great
> >> suggestions, but how long was this in master? How long did people have
> to
> >> test it after alpha1?
> >>
> >> That said, it would be great if those of us who use Beamer extensively
> >> could
> >> come up with some concrete ideas about how the UI should work. Jurgen
> did
> >> the hard work. This should just be tweaking, though perhaps the
> absolutely
> >> best version involves something like a new layout tag. If so, then that
> is
> >> also
> >> doable.
> >>
> >> Richard
> >>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Do you know how to read?
> http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
> http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
> Do you know how to write?
> http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail
>

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

Julio Rojas wrote:

 Thanks Scott,
 
 This shortcut is quite useful in getting me over the old Frame
 environment hangover. Nevertheless, while trying both methods another
 problem appeared: To get out of the title of a Frame pressing return is
 not enough. One has to use the arrows to get out of the Frame title  box
 and then issue return to get to the next line. Now, the next line is not
 indented, so I pressed tab in order to indent the line inside the Frame.
 To my surprise, this line belongs to a Frame environment, so one has to
 change it manually to a standard environment. Weird things do not stop
 there, as one might believe that issuing return would get you out of this
 environment, but no, as one can issue as many CRs as wanted, a behavior
 that I believe is completely unintended, isn't it so?
 
 Regards.
 
 -
 Julio Rojas
 jcredbe...@gmail.com
 
This is exactly my experience - I completely agree this could be easier.

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-07 Thread Richard Heck


On 05/07/2014 08:07 AM, Neal Becker wrote:

Julio Rojas wrote:


Thanks Scott,

This shortcut is quite useful in getting me over the old Frame
environment hangover. Nevertheless, while trying both methods another
problem appeared: To get out of the title of a Frame pressing return is
not enough. One has to use the arrows to get out of the Frame title  box
and then issue return to get to the next line. Now, the next line is not
indented, so I pressed tab in order to indent the line inside the Frame.
To my surprise, this line belongs to a Frame environment, so one has to
change it manually to a standard environment. Weird things do not stop
there, as one might believe that issuing return would get you out of this
environment, but no, as one can issue as many CRs as wanted, a behavior
that I believe is completely unintended, isn't it so?

Regards.

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com


This is exactly my experience - I completely agree this could be easier.


What would help is a concrete proposal about how the UI should work. 
Then we can think about how to code it.


One idea I had was to implement something corresponding to the Next 
Style option in LibreOffice styles. So, e.g., if you are in a Frame 
environment and you hit Return, then LyX would know NOT to make the 
next line also a Frame, but instead to revert to Standard (and perhaps 
we could also have a layout option that told LyX to increase depth for 
that new layout).


Richard

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-07 17:02 GMT+02:00 Richard Heck:

 One idea I had was to implement something corresponding to the Next
 Style option in LibreOffice styles. So, e.g., if you are in a Frame
 environment and you hit Return, then LyX would know NOT to make the next
 line also a Frame, but instead to revert to Standard


Well, this is exactly what Alt+Return does. But let me repeat: Frame _does_
make most sense here. Note that the style is called Frame, not Frame
Title. I do not understand why a nested Standard paragraph would be
required here.

(and perhaps we could also have a layout option that told LyX to increase
 depth for that new layout).


Yes. But the logic will be not easy to figure.

Jürgen



 Richard

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

 2014-05-07 17:02 GMT+02:00 Richard Heck:
 
 One idea I had was to implement something corresponding to the Next
 Style option in LibreOffice styles. So, e.g., if you are in a Frame
 environment and you hit Return, then LyX would know NOT to make the next
 line also a Frame, but instead to revert to Standard
 
 
 Well, this is exactly what Alt+Return does. But let me repeat: Frame _does_
 make most sense here. Note that the style is called Frame, not Frame
 Title. I do not understand why a nested Standard paragraph would be
 required here.
 
 (and perhaps we could also have a layout option that told LyX to increase
 depth for that new layout).

 
 Yes. But the logic will be not easy to figure.
 
 Jürgen
 
OK, I'm confused here.  Let's consider workflow to make a bullet chart.

Insert sep.  Hit return.
Select Frame
Fill in Title
oops - return in title does nothing, navigate past title (right arrow), hit 
return
Now I'm in Frame.  Certainly not what I want - I don't even know what this 
frame 
in a frame would do.
Switch to itemize
Use mouse to hit - icon to nest itemize within frame.

I haven't tried out the shortcut listed earlier in this thread yet.

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-07 17:14 GMT+02:00 Neal Becker:

 OK, I'm confused here.  Let's consider workflow to make a bullet chart.


I was talking about the Standard paragraph, not Itemize.


 Insert sep.  Hit return.
 Select Frame
 Fill in Title
 oops - return in title does nothing, navigate past title (right arrow), hit
 return


Easier:

Alt-A Return
Fill in title
Arrow right
Return


 Now I'm in Frame.  Certainly not what I want - I don't even know what this
 frame
 in a frame would do.


I do not understand what you mean by Frame in a frame. You are still in
the same frame. Would you also say Quotation in a quotation if the style
still is called quotation after hitting return? Or Itemize in an
itemize? Or Theorem in a Theorem? Or, for that matter, Standard in
Standard?


 Switch to itemize
 Use mouse to hit - icon to nest itemize within frame.


Yes. The same as you need to do when using itemize in an Example box, or
Quotation, or Theorem, or ...

Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

After arrow right, return.
I can type some text.  Looks nice.  Oh, it's not nested in the frame.  Hit
tab.

Now you have Frame inside Frame.


On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org wrote:

 2014-05-07 17:14 GMT+02:00 Neal Becker:

  OK, I'm confused here.  Let's consider workflow to make a bullet chart.


 I was talking about the Standard paragraph, not Itemize.


 Insert sep.  Hit return.
 Select Frame
 Fill in Title
 oops - return in title does nothing, navigate past title (right arrow),
 hit
 return


 Easier:

 Alt-A Return
 Fill in title
 Arrow right
 Return


 Now I'm in Frame.  Certainly not what I want - I don't even know what
 this frame
 in a frame would do.


 I do not understand what you mean by Frame in a frame. You are still in
 the same frame. Would you also say Quotation in a quotation if the style
 still is called quotation after hitting return? Or Itemize in an
 itemize? Or Theorem in a Theorem? Or, for that matter, Standard in
 Standard?


 Switch to itemize
 Use mouse to hit - icon to nest itemize within frame.


 Yes. The same as you need to do when using itemize in an Example box, or
 Quotation, or Theorem, or ...

 Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

Which brings up another question.  Alt-A return?  How could I have
discovered this?  If I look at Help/Shortcuts, I don't see it (or am I
blind?)

I wish lyx had a way to discover things like emacs does.


On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 11:38 AM, Neal Becker ndbeck...@gmail.com wrote:

 After arrow right, return.
 I can type some text.  Looks nice.  Oh, it's not nested in the frame.  Hit
 tab.

 Now you have Frame inside Frame.


 On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org wrote:

 2014-05-07 17:14 GMT+02:00 Neal Becker:

  OK, I'm confused here.  Let's consider workflow to make a bullet chart.


 I was talking about the Standard paragraph, not Itemize.


 Insert sep.  Hit return.
 Select Frame
 Fill in Title
 oops - return in title does nothing, navigate past title (right arrow),
 hit
 return


 Easier:

 Alt-A Return
 Fill in title
 Arrow right
 Return


 Now I'm in Frame.  Certainly not what I want - I don't even know what
 this frame
 in a frame would do.


 I do not understand what you mean by Frame in a frame. You are still in
 the same frame. Would you also say Quotation in a quotation if the style
 still is called quotation after hitting return? Or Itemize in an
 itemize? Or Theorem in a Theorem? Or, for that matter, Standard in
 Standard?


 Switch to itemize
 Use mouse to hit - icon to nest itemize within frame.


 Yes. The same as you need to do when using itemize in an Example box, or
 Quotation, or Theorem, or ...

 Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-07 17:38 GMT+02:00 Neal Becker:

 After arrow right, return.
 I can type some text.  Looks nice.  Oh, it's not nested in the frame.  Hit
 tab.


Well, you know that you only need to nest paragraphs of a different layout.
This is the case for _any_ LyX paragraph layout. So why would you want to
nest Frame layout into Frame layout? It does not need to be nested. What
needs to be nested is all content of other layout. Again: this is by no
means an exotism of beamer frame, this is how environments work in LyX.

Also, this is clearly documented in the Beamer manual to which I pointed
you several times, but you do not seem to be interested in reading it, so
here comes a quotation:

• Note that all frame content, if the style is not Frame, must be nested to
the frame environment (via Edit⇒Increase List Depth or Alt+Shift+Right)
• Nested content is marked by a red bar in the margin of the LyX workarea

Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-07 17:41 GMT+02:00 Neal Becker ndbeck...@gmail.com:

 Which brings up another question.  Alt-A return?  How could I have
 discovered this?


Reading the beamer manual perhaps? Also, the shortcut is displayed in the
respective menu (Edit). And it is also documented generally in the LyX
manuals.

Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-07 Thread Julio Rojas

Dear Jürgen, there is no need for irony on your comments. Everybody is
doing an honest effort to work with the new Beamer environment.

You have quoted the behavior of other environments as the reference for the
Frame environment. If I am in a, for example, Problem environment and I
want to get out of it into the standard environment, all I have to do is
issue a couple of returns. This behavior is nowhere to be found in the
Frame environment, as I can issue as many returns as I wish and the UI
will accept them. This is, at least IMHO, a first in Lyx.

As for the behavior after getting out of the frame title, what Neal was
explaining is related to the previous paragraph. After issuing return
outside of the frame title, another return should get you to the standard
environment. Then issuing a tab would indent this standard environment into
the Frame environment and you can keep working. This is the behavior I
was expecting from my experience with Lyx and all sorts of environments. In
this moment, you can issue as many returns as you wish and Lyx would keep
adding empty white lines of a Frame environment. This behavior is not
only annoying and useless, to say the least, but also is nowhere to be
found in other environments.

I hope that you understand our concerns.

Regards.

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com


On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 11:46 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org wrote:

 2014-05-07 17:41 GMT+02:00 Neal Becker ndbeck...@gmail.com:

 Which brings up another question.  Alt-A return?  How could I have
 discovered this?


 Reading the beamer manual perhaps? Also, the shortcut is displayed in the
 respective menu (Edit). And it is also documented generally in the LyX
 manuals.

 Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

Julio Rojas wrote:

 Thanks Scott,
 
 This shortcut is quite useful in getting me over the old Frame
 environment hangover. Nevertheless, while trying both methods another
 problem appeared: To get out of the title of a Frame pressing return is
 not enough. One has to use the arrows to get out of the Frame title  box
 and then issue return to get to the next line. Now, the next line is not
 indented, so I pressed tab in order to indent the line inside the Frame.
 To my surprise, this line belongs to a Frame environment, so one has to
 change it manually to a standard environment. Weird things do not stop
 there, as one might believe that issuing return would get you out of this
 environment, but no, as one can issue as many CRs as wanted, a behavior
 that I believe is completely unintended, isn't it so?
 
 Regards.
 
 -
 Julio Rojas
 jcredbe...@gmail.com
 
This is exactly my experience - I completely agree this could be easier.

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-07 Thread Richard Heck


On 05/07/2014 08:07 AM, Neal Becker wrote:

Julio Rojas wrote:


Thanks Scott,

This shortcut is quite useful in getting me over the old Frame
environment hangover. Nevertheless, while trying both methods another
problem appeared: To get out of the title of a Frame pressing return is
not enough. One has to use the arrows to get out of the Frame title  box
and then issue return to get to the next line. Now, the next line is not
indented, so I pressed tab in order to indent the line inside the Frame.
To my surprise, this line belongs to a Frame environment, so one has to
change it manually to a standard environment. Weird things do not stop
there, as one might believe that issuing return would get you out of this
environment, but no, as one can issue as many CRs as wanted, a behavior
that I believe is completely unintended, isn't it so?

Regards.

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com


This is exactly my experience - I completely agree this could be easier.


What would help is a concrete proposal about how the UI should work. 
Then we can think about how to code it.


One idea I had was to implement something corresponding to the Next 
Style option in LibreOffice styles. So, e.g., if you are in a Frame 
environment and you hit Return, then LyX would know NOT to make the 
next line also a Frame, but instead to revert to Standard (and perhaps 
we could also have a layout option that told LyX to increase depth for 
that new layout).


Richard

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-07 17:02 GMT+02:00 Richard Heck:

 One idea I had was to implement something corresponding to the Next
 Style option in LibreOffice styles. So, e.g., if you are in a Frame
 environment and you hit Return, then LyX would know NOT to make the next
 line also a Frame, but instead to revert to Standard


Well, this is exactly what Alt+Return does. But let me repeat: Frame _does_
make most sense here. Note that the style is called Frame, not Frame
Title. I do not understand why a nested Standard paragraph would be
required here.

(and perhaps we could also have a layout option that told LyX to increase
 depth for that new layout).


Yes. But the logic will be not easy to figure.

Jürgen



 Richard

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

 2014-05-07 17:02 GMT+02:00 Richard Heck:
 
 One idea I had was to implement something corresponding to the Next
 Style option in LibreOffice styles. So, e.g., if you are in a Frame
 environment and you hit Return, then LyX would know NOT to make the next
 line also a Frame, but instead to revert to Standard
 
 
 Well, this is exactly what Alt+Return does. But let me repeat: Frame _does_
 make most sense here. Note that the style is called Frame, not Frame
 Title. I do not understand why a nested Standard paragraph would be
 required here.
 
 (and perhaps we could also have a layout option that told LyX to increase
 depth for that new layout).

 
 Yes. But the logic will be not easy to figure.
 
 Jürgen
 
OK, I'm confused here.  Let's consider workflow to make a bullet chart.

Insert sep.  Hit return.
Select Frame
Fill in Title
oops - return in title does nothing, navigate past title (right arrow), hit 
return
Now I'm in Frame.  Certainly not what I want - I don't even know what this 
frame 
in a frame would do.
Switch to itemize
Use mouse to hit - icon to nest itemize within frame.

I haven't tried out the shortcut listed earlier in this thread yet.

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-07 17:14 GMT+02:00 Neal Becker:

 OK, I'm confused here.  Let's consider workflow to make a bullet chart.


I was talking about the Standard paragraph, not Itemize.


 Insert sep.  Hit return.
 Select Frame
 Fill in Title
 oops - return in title does nothing, navigate past title (right arrow), hit
 return


Easier:

Alt-A Return
Fill in title
Arrow right
Return


 Now I'm in Frame.  Certainly not what I want - I don't even know what this
 frame
 in a frame would do.


I do not understand what you mean by Frame in a frame. You are still in
the same frame. Would you also say Quotation in a quotation if the style
still is called quotation after hitting return? Or Itemize in an
itemize? Or Theorem in a Theorem? Or, for that matter, Standard in
Standard?


 Switch to itemize
 Use mouse to hit - icon to nest itemize within frame.


Yes. The same as you need to do when using itemize in an Example box, or
Quotation, or Theorem, or ...

Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

After arrow right, return.
I can type some text.  Looks nice.  Oh, it's not nested in the frame.  Hit
tab.

Now you have Frame inside Frame.


On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org wrote:

 2014-05-07 17:14 GMT+02:00 Neal Becker:

  OK, I'm confused here.  Let's consider workflow to make a bullet chart.


 I was talking about the Standard paragraph, not Itemize.


 Insert sep.  Hit return.
 Select Frame
 Fill in Title
 oops - return in title does nothing, navigate past title (right arrow),
 hit
 return


 Easier:

 Alt-A Return
 Fill in title
 Arrow right
 Return


 Now I'm in Frame.  Certainly not what I want - I don't even know what
 this frame
 in a frame would do.


 I do not understand what you mean by Frame in a frame. You are still in
 the same frame. Would you also say Quotation in a quotation if the style
 still is called quotation after hitting return? Or Itemize in an
 itemize? Or Theorem in a Theorem? Or, for that matter, Standard in
 Standard?


 Switch to itemize
 Use mouse to hit - icon to nest itemize within frame.


 Yes. The same as you need to do when using itemize in an Example box, or
 Quotation, or Theorem, or ...

 Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

Which brings up another question.  Alt-A return?  How could I have
discovered this?  If I look at Help/Shortcuts, I don't see it (or am I
blind?)

I wish lyx had a way to discover things like emacs does.


On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 11:38 AM, Neal Becker ndbeck...@gmail.com wrote:

 After arrow right, return.
 I can type some text.  Looks nice.  Oh, it's not nested in the frame.  Hit
 tab.

 Now you have Frame inside Frame.


 On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org wrote:

 2014-05-07 17:14 GMT+02:00 Neal Becker:

  OK, I'm confused here.  Let's consider workflow to make a bullet chart.


 I was talking about the Standard paragraph, not Itemize.


 Insert sep.  Hit return.
 Select Frame
 Fill in Title
 oops - return in title does nothing, navigate past title (right arrow),
 hit
 return


 Easier:

 Alt-A Return
 Fill in title
 Arrow right
 Return


 Now I'm in Frame.  Certainly not what I want - I don't even know what
 this frame
 in a frame would do.


 I do not understand what you mean by Frame in a frame. You are still in
 the same frame. Would you also say Quotation in a quotation if the style
 still is called quotation after hitting return? Or Itemize in an
 itemize? Or Theorem in a Theorem? Or, for that matter, Standard in
 Standard?


 Switch to itemize
 Use mouse to hit - icon to nest itemize within frame.


 Yes. The same as you need to do when using itemize in an Example box, or
 Quotation, or Theorem, or ...

 Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-07 17:38 GMT+02:00 Neal Becker:

 After arrow right, return.
 I can type some text.  Looks nice.  Oh, it's not nested in the frame.  Hit
 tab.


Well, you know that you only need to nest paragraphs of a different layout.
This is the case for _any_ LyX paragraph layout. So why would you want to
nest Frame layout into Frame layout? It does not need to be nested. What
needs to be nested is all content of other layout. Again: this is by no
means an exotism of beamer frame, this is how environments work in LyX.

Also, this is clearly documented in the Beamer manual to which I pointed
you several times, but you do not seem to be interested in reading it, so
here comes a quotation:

• Note that all frame content, if the style is not Frame, must be nested to
the frame environment (via Edit⇒Increase List Depth or Alt+Shift+Right)
• Nested content is marked by a red bar in the margin of the LyX workarea

Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-07 17:41 GMT+02:00 Neal Becker ndbeck...@gmail.com:

 Which brings up another question.  Alt-A return?  How could I have
 discovered this?


Reading the beamer manual perhaps? Also, the shortcut is displayed in the
respective menu (Edit). And it is also documented generally in the LyX
manuals.

Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-07 Thread Julio Rojas

Dear Jürgen, there is no need for irony on your comments. Everybody is
doing an honest effort to work with the new Beamer environment.

You have quoted the behavior of other environments as the reference for the
Frame environment. If I am in a, for example, Problem environment and I
want to get out of it into the standard environment, all I have to do is
issue a couple of returns. This behavior is nowhere to be found in the
Frame environment, as I can issue as many returns as I wish and the UI
will accept them. This is, at least IMHO, a first in Lyx.

As for the behavior after getting out of the frame title, what Neal was
explaining is related to the previous paragraph. After issuing return
outside of the frame title, another return should get you to the standard
environment. Then issuing a tab would indent this standard environment into
the Frame environment and you can keep working. This is the behavior I
was expecting from my experience with Lyx and all sorts of environments. In
this moment, you can issue as many returns as you wish and Lyx would keep
adding empty white lines of a Frame environment. This behavior is not
only annoying and useless, to say the least, but also is nowhere to be
found in other environments.

I hope that you understand our concerns.

Regards.

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com


On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 11:46 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org wrote:

 2014-05-07 17:41 GMT+02:00 Neal Becker ndbeck...@gmail.com:

 Which brings up another question.  Alt-A return?  How could I have
 discovered this?


 Reading the beamer manual perhaps? Also, the shortcut is displayed in the
 respective menu (Edit). And it is also documented generally in the LyX
 manuals.

 Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

Julio Rojas wrote:

> Thanks Scott,
> 
> This shortcut is quite useful in getting me over the old "Frame"
> environment hangover. Nevertheless, while trying both methods another
> "problem" appeared: To get out of the title of a "Frame" pressing return is
> not enough. One has to use the arrows to get out of the "Frame title"  box
> and then issue return to get to the next line. Now, the next line is not
> indented, so I pressed tab in order to indent the line inside the "Frame".
> To my surprise, this line belongs to a "Frame" environment, so one has to
> change it manually to a standard environment. Weird things do not stop
> there, as one might believe that issuing return would get you out of this
> environment, but no, as one can issue as many CRs as wanted, a behavior
> that I believe is completely unintended, isn't it so?
> 
> Regards.
> 
> -
> Julio Rojas
> jcredbe...@gmail.com
> 
This is exactly my experience - I completely agree this could be easier.

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-07 Thread Richard Heck


On 05/07/2014 08:07 AM, Neal Becker wrote:

Julio Rojas wrote:


Thanks Scott,

This shortcut is quite useful in getting me over the old "Frame"
environment hangover. Nevertheless, while trying both methods another
"problem" appeared: To get out of the title of a "Frame" pressing return is
not enough. One has to use the arrows to get out of the "Frame title"  box
and then issue return to get to the next line. Now, the next line is not
indented, so I pressed tab in order to indent the line inside the "Frame".
To my surprise, this line belongs to a "Frame" environment, so one has to
change it manually to a standard environment. Weird things do not stop
there, as one might believe that issuing return would get you out of this
environment, but no, as one can issue as many CRs as wanted, a behavior
that I believe is completely unintended, isn't it so?

Regards.

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com


This is exactly my experience - I completely agree this could be easier.


What would help is a concrete proposal about how the UI should work. 
Then we can think about how to code it.


One idea I had was to implement something corresponding to the "Next 
Style" option in LibreOffice styles. So, e.g., if you are in a Frame 
environment and you hit , then LyX would know NOT to make the 
next line also a Frame, but instead to revert to Standard (and perhaps 
we could also have a layout option that told LyX to increase depth for 
that new layout).


Richard

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-07 17:02 GMT+02:00 Richard Heck:

> One idea I had was to implement something corresponding to the "Next
> Style" option in LibreOffice styles. So, e.g., if you are in a Frame
> environment and you hit , then LyX would know NOT to make the next
> line also a Frame, but instead to revert to Standard


Well, this is exactly what Alt+Return does. But let me repeat: Frame _does_
make most sense here. Note that the style is called "Frame", not "Frame
Title". I do not understand why a nested Standard paragraph would be
required here.

(and perhaps we could also have a layout option that told LyX to increase
> depth for that new layout).
>

Yes. But the logic will be not easy to figure.

Jürgen


>
> Richard
>
>

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

> 2014-05-07 17:02 GMT+02:00 Richard Heck:
> 
>> One idea I had was to implement something corresponding to the "Next
>> Style" option in LibreOffice styles. So, e.g., if you are in a Frame
>> environment and you hit , then LyX would know NOT to make the next
>> line also a Frame, but instead to revert to Standard
> 
> 
> Well, this is exactly what Alt+Return does. But let me repeat: Frame _does_
> make most sense here. Note that the style is called "Frame", not "Frame
> Title". I do not understand why a nested Standard paragraph would be
> required here.
> 
> (and perhaps we could also have a layout option that told LyX to increase
>> depth for that new layout).
>>
> 
> Yes. But the logic will be not easy to figure.
> 
> Jürgen
> 
OK, I'm confused here.  Let's consider workflow to make a bullet chart.

Insert sep.  Hit return.
Select Frame
Fill in Title
oops - return in title does nothing, navigate past title (right arrow), hit 
return
Now I'm in Frame.  Certainly not what I want - I don't even know what this 
frame 
in a frame would do.
Switch to itemize
Use mouse to hit -> icon to nest itemize within frame.

I haven't tried out the shortcut listed earlier in this thread yet.

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-07 17:14 GMT+02:00 Neal Becker:

> OK, I'm confused here.  Let's consider workflow to make a bullet chart.
>

I was talking about the Standard paragraph, not Itemize.


> Insert sep.  Hit return.
> Select Frame
> Fill in Title
> oops - return in title does nothing, navigate past title (right arrow), hit
> return
>

Easier:

Alt-A Return
Fill in title
Arrow right
Return


> Now I'm in Frame.  Certainly not what I want - I don't even know what this
> frame
> in a frame would do.
>

I do not understand what you mean by "Frame in a frame". You are still in
the same frame. Would you also say "Quotation in a quotation" if the style
still is called "quotation" after hitting return? Or "Itemize in an
itemize"? Or "Theorem in a Theorem"? Or, for that matter, "Standard in
Standard"?


> Switch to itemize
> Use mouse to hit -> icon to nest itemize within frame.
>

Yes. The same as you need to do when using itemize in an Example box, or
Quotation, or Theorem, or ...

Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

After arrow right, return.
I can type some text.  Looks nice.  Oh, it's not nested in the frame.  Hit
tab.

Now you have Frame inside Frame.


On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller  wrote:

> 2014-05-07 17:14 GMT+02:00 Neal Becker:
>
>>  OK, I'm confused here.  Let's consider workflow to make a bullet chart.
>>
>
> I was talking about the Standard paragraph, not Itemize.
>
>
>> Insert sep.  Hit return.
>> Select Frame
>> Fill in Title
>> oops - return in title does nothing, navigate past title (right arrow),
>> hit
>> return
>>
>
> Easier:
>
> Alt-A Return
> Fill in title
> Arrow right
> Return
>
>
>> Now I'm in Frame.  Certainly not what I want - I don't even know what
>> this frame
>> in a frame would do.
>>
>
> I do not understand what you mean by "Frame in a frame". You are still in
> the same frame. Would you also say "Quotation in a quotation" if the style
> still is called "quotation" after hitting return? Or "Itemize in an
> itemize"? Or "Theorem in a Theorem"? Or, for that matter, "Standard in
> Standard"?
>
>
>> Switch to itemize
>> Use mouse to hit -> icon to nest itemize within frame.
>>
>
> Yes. The same as you need to do when using itemize in an Example box, or
> Quotation, or Theorem, or ...
>
> Jürgen
>

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

Which brings up another question.  Alt-A return?  How could I have
discovered this?  If I look at Help/Shortcuts, I don't see it (or am I
blind?)

I wish lyx had a way to discover things like emacs does.


On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 11:38 AM, Neal Becker  wrote:

> After arrow right, return.
> I can type some text.  Looks nice.  Oh, it's not nested in the frame.  Hit
> tab.
>
> Now you have Frame inside Frame.
>
>
> On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller  wrote:
>
>> 2014-05-07 17:14 GMT+02:00 Neal Becker:
>>
>>>  OK, I'm confused here.  Let's consider workflow to make a bullet chart.
>>>
>>
>> I was talking about the Standard paragraph, not Itemize.
>>
>>
>>> Insert sep.  Hit return.
>>> Select Frame
>>> Fill in Title
>>> oops - return in title does nothing, navigate past title (right arrow),
>>> hit
>>> return
>>>
>>
>> Easier:
>>
>> Alt-A Return
>> Fill in title
>> Arrow right
>> Return
>>
>>
>>> Now I'm in Frame.  Certainly not what I want - I don't even know what
>>> this frame
>>> in a frame would do.
>>>
>>
>> I do not understand what you mean by "Frame in a frame". You are still in
>> the same frame. Would you also say "Quotation in a quotation" if the style
>> still is called "quotation" after hitting return? Or "Itemize in an
>> itemize"? Or "Theorem in a Theorem"? Or, for that matter, "Standard in
>> Standard"?
>>
>>
>>> Switch to itemize
>>> Use mouse to hit -> icon to nest itemize within frame.
>>>
>>
>> Yes. The same as you need to do when using itemize in an Example box, or
>> Quotation, or Theorem, or ...
>>
>> Jürgen
>>
>
>

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-07 17:38 GMT+02:00 Neal Becker:

> After arrow right, return.
> I can type some text.  Looks nice.  Oh, it's not nested in the frame.  Hit
> tab.
>

Well, you know that you only need to nest paragraphs of a different layout.
This is the case for _any_ LyX paragraph layout. So why would you want to
nest Frame layout into Frame layout? It does not need to be nested. What
needs to be nested is all content of other layout. Again: this is by no
means an exotism of beamer frame, this is how environments work in LyX.

Also, this is clearly documented in the Beamer manual to which I pointed
you several times, but you do not seem to be interested in reading it, so
here comes a quotation:

• Note that all frame content, if the style is not Frame, must be nested to
the frame environment (via Edit⇒Increase List Depth or Alt+Shift+Right)
• Nested content is marked by a red bar in the margin of the LyX workarea

Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-07 17:41 GMT+02:00 Neal Becker :

> Which brings up another question.  Alt-A return?  How could I have
> discovered this?
>

Reading the beamer manual perhaps? Also, the shortcut is displayed in the
respective menu (Edit). And it is also documented generally in the LyX
manuals.

Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-07 Thread Julio Rojas

Dear Jürgen, there is no need for irony on your comments. Everybody is
doing an honest effort to work with the "new" Beamer environment.

You have quoted the behavior of other environments as the reference for the
"Frame" environment. If I am in a, for example, "Problem" environment and I
want to get out of it into the standard environment, all I have to do is
issue a couple of returns. This behavior is nowhere to be found in the
"Frame" environment, as I can issue as many returns as I wish and the UI
will accept them. This is, at least IMHO, a first in Lyx.

As for the behavior after getting out of the frame title, what Neal was
explaining is related to the previous paragraph. After issuing return
outside of the frame title, another return should get you to the standard
environment. Then issuing a tab would indent this standard environment into
the "Frame" environment and you can keep working. This is the behavior I
was expecting from my experience with Lyx and all sorts of environments. In
this moment, you can issue as many returns as you wish and Lyx would keep
adding empty white lines of a "Frame" environment. This behavior is not
only annoying and useless, to say the least, but also is nowhere to be
found in other environments.

I hope that you understand our concerns.

Regards.

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com

On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 11:46 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller  wrote:

> 2014-05-07 17:41 GMT+02:00 Neal Becker :
>
> Which brings up another question.  Alt-A return?  How could I have
>> discovered this?
>>
>
> Reading the beamer manual perhaps? Also, the shortcut is displayed in the
> respective menu (Edit). And it is also documented generally in the LyX
> manuals.
>
> Jürgen
>

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-06 Thread Pavel Sanda

Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:
 Read the last answer in this mail:
 http://marc.info/?l=lyx-usersm=139595652821799w=2

It may be worth to copy paste this email to note into beamer manual as a note,
it would help frustrated users to get through the first shock what improved
beamer support means ;)

Pavel

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-06 Thread Julio Rojas

Thanks Scott,

This shortcut is quite useful in getting me over the old Frame
environment hangover. Nevertheless, while trying both methods another
problem appeared: To get out of the title of a Frame pressing return is
not enough. One has to use the arrows to get out of the Frame title  box
and then issue return to get to the next line. Now, the next line is not
indented, so I pressed tab in order to indent the line inside the Frame.
To my surprise, this line belongs to a Frame environment, so one has to
change it manually to a standard environment. Weird things do not stop
there, as one might believe that issuing return would get you out of this
environment, but no, as one can issue as many CRs as wanted, a behavior
that I believe is completely unintended, isn't it so?

Regards.

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com


On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 12:22 AM, Scott Kostyshak skost...@lyx.org wrote:

 On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:58 PM, Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com wrote:
  Actually is the separator what annoys me the most. Is there any way in
  which it is automatically inserted by the UI? I find myself doing
  copy-paste all the tame from the previous slide in order to add a CR, a
  separator, a new title and an indented line. Without the separator I
 would
  be doing a couple of CRs to get out of the Frame environment, then
 adding
  a new Frame title. Somehow this workflow is kind of faster/smoother.

 Hi Julio,

 The following is taken from the LyX Beamer manual (Help  Specific
 Manuals  Beamer):

 There is a simple automated way to start a new frame: Issue Edit⇒Start
 New Environment (Alt+P Return) if you are in a non-nested Frame
 paragraph, or Edit⇒Start New Parent Environment (Alt+P Shift+Return),
 respectively, if you are in a nested paragraph within the frame!

 Best,

 Scott

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-06 Thread Pavel Sanda

Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:
 Read the last answer in this mail:
 http://marc.info/?l=lyx-usersm=139595652821799w=2

It may be worth to copy paste this email to note into beamer manual as a note,
it would help frustrated users to get through the first shock what improved
beamer support means ;)

Pavel

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-06 Thread Julio Rojas

Thanks Scott,

This shortcut is quite useful in getting me over the old Frame
environment hangover. Nevertheless, while trying both methods another
problem appeared: To get out of the title of a Frame pressing return is
not enough. One has to use the arrows to get out of the Frame title  box
and then issue return to get to the next line. Now, the next line is not
indented, so I pressed tab in order to indent the line inside the Frame.
To my surprise, this line belongs to a Frame environment, so one has to
change it manually to a standard environment. Weird things do not stop
there, as one might believe that issuing return would get you out of this
environment, but no, as one can issue as many CRs as wanted, a behavior
that I believe is completely unintended, isn't it so?

Regards.

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com


On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 12:22 AM, Scott Kostyshak skost...@lyx.org wrote:

 On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:58 PM, Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com wrote:
  Actually is the separator what annoys me the most. Is there any way in
  which it is automatically inserted by the UI? I find myself doing
  copy-paste all the tame from the previous slide in order to add a CR, a
  separator, a new title and an indented line. Without the separator I
 would
  be doing a couple of CRs to get out of the Frame environment, then
 adding
  a new Frame title. Somehow this workflow is kind of faster/smoother.

 Hi Julio,

 The following is taken from the LyX Beamer manual (Help  Specific
 Manuals  Beamer):

 There is a simple automated way to start a new frame: Issue Edit⇒Start
 New Environment (Alt+P Return) if you are in a non-nested Frame
 paragraph, or Edit⇒Start New Parent Environment (Alt+P Shift+Return),
 respectively, if you are in a nested paragraph within the frame!

 Best,

 Scott

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-06 Thread Pavel Sanda

Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:
> Read the last answer in this mail:
> http://marc.info/?l=lyx-users=139595652821799=2

It may be worth to copy paste this email to note into beamer manual as a note,
it would help frustrated users to get through the first shock what improved
beamer support means ;)

Pavel

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-06 Thread Julio Rojas

Thanks Scott,

This shortcut is quite useful in getting me over the old "Frame"
environment hangover. Nevertheless, while trying both methods another
"problem" appeared: To get out of the title of a "Frame" pressing return is
not enough. One has to use the arrows to get out of the "Frame title"  box
and then issue return to get to the next line. Now, the next line is not
indented, so I pressed tab in order to indent the line inside the "Frame".
To my surprise, this line belongs to a "Frame" environment, so one has to
change it manually to a standard environment. Weird things do not stop
there, as one might believe that issuing return would get you out of this
environment, but no, as one can issue as many CRs as wanted, a behavior
that I believe is completely unintended, isn't it so?

Regards.

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com

On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 12:22 AM, Scott Kostyshak  wrote:

> On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:58 PM, Julio Rojas  wrote:
> > Actually is the "separator" what annoys me the most. Is there any way in
> > which it is "automatically" inserted by the UI? I find myself doing
> > copy-paste all the tame from the previous slide in order to add a CR, a
> > separator, a new title and an indented line. Without the separator I
> would
> > be doing a couple of CRs to get out of the "Frame" environment, then
> adding
> > a new "Frame" title. Somehow this workflow is kind of faster/smoother.
>
> Hi Julio,
>
> The following is taken from the LyX Beamer manual (Help > Specific
> Manuals > Beamer):
>
> There is a simple automated way to start a new frame: Issue Edit⇒Start
> New Environment (Alt+P Return) if you are in a non-nested Frame
> paragraph, or Edit⇒Start New Parent Environment (Alt+P Shift+Return),
> respectively, if you are in a nested paragraph within the frame!
>
> Best,
>
> Scott
>

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-05 18:46 GMT+02:00 Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com:

 Dear developers,

 Why was it decided to force users to indent content inside a Frame
 environment in Lyx 2.1.0, instead of leaving the default behavior in Lyx
 2.0.x which automatically set your content between Frames as part of
 the one on top? Was it to standardize it with all other environments in Lyx?


Read the last answer in this mail:
http://marc.info/?l=lyx-usersm=139595652821799w=2

Even if it is an small change, it affects my workflow in a sensitive way,
 so please, can you program a way to set it to the previous behavior?


No.

Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

Dear Jürgen

Thanks for your answer. I suspected all the time that the reasons were the
ones explained in that email. Now, I will go back to get used to the
new/improved/simpler/optimized/standardized way with the slides for my
courses. ;)

Regards.

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com


On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 12:53 PM, Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org wrote:

 2014-05-05 18:46 GMT+02:00 Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com:

 Dear developers,

 Why was it decided to force users to indent content inside a Frame
 environment in Lyx 2.1.0, instead of leaving the default behavior in Lyx
 2.0.x which automatically set your content between Frames as part of
 the one on top? Was it to standardize it with all other environments in Lyx?


 Read the last answer in this mail:
 http://marc.info/?l=lyx-usersm=139595652821799w=2

 Even if it is an small change, it affects my workflow in a sensitive way,
 so please, can you program a way to set it to the previous behavior?


 No.

 Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-05 19:14 GMT+02:00 Julio Rojas:

 Thanks for your answer. I suspected all the time that the reasons were the
 ones explained in that email. Now, I will go back to get used to the
 new/improved/simpler/optimized/standardized way with the slides for my
 courses. ;)


And please report back. As said in that mail, there is certainly room for
improvement within the new UI.

Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

Actually is the separator what annoys me the most. Is there any way in
which it is automatically inserted by the UI? I find myself doing
copy-paste all the tame from the previous slide in order to add a CR, a
separator, a new title and an indented line. Without the separator I would
be doing a couple of CRs to get out of the Frame environment, then adding
a new Frame title. Somehow this workflow is kind of faster/smoother.

Regards.



-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com


On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org wrote:

 2014-05-05 19:14 GMT+02:00 Julio Rojas:

 Thanks for your answer. I suspected all the time that the reasons were the
 ones explained in that email. Now, I will go back to get used to the
 new/improved/simpler/optimized/standardized way with the slides for my
 courses. ;)


 And please report back. As said in that mail, there is certainly room for
 improvement within the new UI.

 Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-05 Thread Scott Kostyshak

On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:58 PM, Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com wrote:
 Actually is the separator what annoys me the most. Is there any way in
 which it is automatically inserted by the UI? I find myself doing
 copy-paste all the tame from the previous slide in order to add a CR, a
 separator, a new title and an indented line. Without the separator I would
 be doing a couple of CRs to get out of the Frame environment, then adding
 a new Frame title. Somehow this workflow is kind of faster/smoother.

Hi Julio,

The following is taken from the LyX Beamer manual (Help  Specific
Manuals  Beamer):

There is a simple automated way to start a new frame: Issue Edit⇒Start
New Environment (Alt+P Return) if you are in a non-nested Frame
paragraph, or Edit⇒Start New Parent Environment (Alt+P Shift+Return),
respectively, if you are in a nested paragraph within the frame!

Best,

Scott

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-05 18:46 GMT+02:00 Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com:

 Dear developers,

 Why was it decided to force users to indent content inside a Frame
 environment in Lyx 2.1.0, instead of leaving the default behavior in Lyx
 2.0.x which automatically set your content between Frames as part of
 the one on top? Was it to standardize it with all other environments in Lyx?


Read the last answer in this mail:
http://marc.info/?l=lyx-usersm=139595652821799w=2

Even if it is an small change, it affects my workflow in a sensitive way,
 so please, can you program a way to set it to the previous behavior?


No.

Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

Dear Jürgen

Thanks for your answer. I suspected all the time that the reasons were the
ones explained in that email. Now, I will go back to get used to the
new/improved/simpler/optimized/standardized way with the slides for my
courses. ;)

Regards.

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com


On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 12:53 PM, Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org wrote:

 2014-05-05 18:46 GMT+02:00 Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com:

 Dear developers,

 Why was it decided to force users to indent content inside a Frame
 environment in Lyx 2.1.0, instead of leaving the default behavior in Lyx
 2.0.x which automatically set your content between Frames as part of
 the one on top? Was it to standardize it with all other environments in Lyx?


 Read the last answer in this mail:
 http://marc.info/?l=lyx-usersm=139595652821799w=2

 Even if it is an small change, it affects my workflow in a sensitive way,
 so please, can you program a way to set it to the previous behavior?


 No.

 Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-05 19:14 GMT+02:00 Julio Rojas:

 Thanks for your answer. I suspected all the time that the reasons were the
 ones explained in that email. Now, I will go back to get used to the
 new/improved/simpler/optimized/standardized way with the slides for my
 courses. ;)


And please report back. As said in that mail, there is certainly room for
improvement within the new UI.

Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

Actually is the separator what annoys me the most. Is there any way in
which it is automatically inserted by the UI? I find myself doing
copy-paste all the tame from the previous slide in order to add a CR, a
separator, a new title and an indented line. Without the separator I would
be doing a couple of CRs to get out of the Frame environment, then adding
a new Frame title. Somehow this workflow is kind of faster/smoother.

Regards.



-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com


On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org wrote:

 2014-05-05 19:14 GMT+02:00 Julio Rojas:

 Thanks for your answer. I suspected all the time that the reasons were the
 ones explained in that email. Now, I will go back to get used to the
 new/improved/simpler/optimized/standardized way with the slides for my
 courses. ;)


 And please report back. As said in that mail, there is certainly room for
 improvement within the new UI.

 Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-05 Thread Scott Kostyshak

On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:58 PM, Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com wrote:
 Actually is the separator what annoys me the most. Is there any way in
 which it is automatically inserted by the UI? I find myself doing
 copy-paste all the tame from the previous slide in order to add a CR, a
 separator, a new title and an indented line. Without the separator I would
 be doing a couple of CRs to get out of the Frame environment, then adding
 a new Frame title. Somehow this workflow is kind of faster/smoother.

Hi Julio,

The following is taken from the LyX Beamer manual (Help  Specific
Manuals  Beamer):

There is a simple automated way to start a new frame: Issue Edit⇒Start
New Environment (Alt+P Return) if you are in a non-nested Frame
paragraph, or Edit⇒Start New Parent Environment (Alt+P Shift+Return),
respectively, if you are in a nested paragraph within the frame!

Best,

Scott

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-05 18:46 GMT+02:00 Julio Rojas :

> Dear developers,
>
> Why was it decided to force users to "indent" content inside a "Frame"
> environment in Lyx 2.1.0, instead of leaving the default behavior in Lyx
> 2.0.x which "automatically" set your content between "Frames" as part of
> the one on top? Was it to standardize it with all other environments in Lyx?
>

Read the last answer in this mail:
http://marc.info/?l=lyx-users=139595652821799=2

Even if it is an small change, it affects my workflow in a sensitive way,
> so please, can you program a way to set it to the previous behavior?
>

No.

Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

Dear Jürgen

Thanks for your answer. I suspected all the time that the reasons were the
ones explained in that email. Now, I will go back to get used to the
new/improved/simpler/optimized/standardized way with the slides for my
courses. ;)

Regards.

-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com


On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 12:53 PM, Jürgen Spitzmüller  wrote:

> 2014-05-05 18:46 GMT+02:00 Julio Rojas :
>
> Dear developers,
>>
>> Why was it decided to force users to "indent" content inside a "Frame"
>> environment in Lyx 2.1.0, instead of leaving the default behavior in Lyx
>> 2.0.x which "automatically" set your content between "Frames" as part of
>> the one on top? Was it to standardize it with all other environments in Lyx?
>>
>
> Read the last answer in this mail:
> http://marc.info/?l=lyx-users=139595652821799=2
>
> Even if it is an small change, it affects my workflow in a sensitive way,
>> so please, can you program a way to set it to the previous behavior?
>>
>
> No.
>
> Jürgen
>

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0

2014-05-05 19:14 GMT+02:00 Julio Rojas:

> Thanks for your answer. I suspected all the time that the reasons were the
> ones explained in that email. Now, I will go back to get used to the
> new/improved/simpler/optimized/standardized way with the slides for my
> courses. ;)
>

And please report back. As said in that mail, there is certainly room for
improvement within the new UI.

Jürgen

Re: Beamer in Lyx 2.1.0