Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Mitch Haley
G Mann wrote: BTW, to the original poster on this thread. Try the latest version of LED lights. Do they draw a balanced current from BOTH sides of the AC waveform? Pulling DC from an AC outlet is not a good thing, and that's what LED lights used to do.

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread G Mann
Can't answer that one, it's above my pay grade. Easy answer perhaps would be to contact the Mfg. Easy source for the LED direct replacement bulbs is now Home Depot. I assume there is one near you. They perhaps have some trick electronics mounted internally to make the LED bulbs work on AC

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Max Dillon
No, AGW (anthropogenic global warming) is about religion, not science, even though the true believers wrap it in the cloak of science. You can't change the terms of the discussion and actually apply reason, you will be labeled a denierand scorned, ridiculed, or worse (but you probably already

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Mitch Haley
G Mann wrote: Can't answer that one, it's above my pay grade. Easy answer perhaps would be to contact the Mfg. Easy source for the LED direct replacement bulbs is now Home Depot. I assume there is one near you. They perhaps have some trick electronics mounted internally to make the LED bulbs

[MBZ] 5w40 euro Quaker State at Big Lots

2011-07-07 Thread Mitch Haley
$4 a qt. I wonder if this is the same thing as eurospec Castrol, considering that they are the same company. http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/1110178/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives

Re: [MBZ] 5w40 euro Quaker State at Big Lots

2011-07-07 Thread Mitch Haley
Oops, QS=Penzoil=Shell. Why was I thinking they bought Castrol? Mitch Haley wrote: $4 a qt. I wonder if this is the same thing as eurospec Castrol, considering that they are the same company. http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/1110178/ ___

[MBZ] Gummit brainwashing WAS: The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Dieselhead
I took one teacher education class in college years ago, and the brainwashing was sickening. Yes, Dewey is revered. It was memorizing and regurgitating the edubabble drivel of the day. I barfed, took my c or d and got out. Later on in grad school with the wannabe superintendents, it was

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread G Mann
Mitch, They are sealed units, so access to the circuits is not available to put a meter on them.. They have 24 LED's and screw into normal light sockets. The light emitted is bright, clean, and softwhite. When I went looking, I found not all LED bulbs are soft white and in fact many / most are

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Mitch Haley
G Mann wrote: Mitch, They are sealed units, so access to the circuits is not available to put a meter on them.. They have 24 LED's and screw into normal light sockets. The light emitted is bright, clean, and softwhite. When I went looking, I found not all LED bulbs are soft white and in fact

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Dieselhead
Curly fries taste good, so curly fry light bubs HAVE to be good (Obummer logic) Mitch, They are sealed units, so access to the circuits is not available to put a meter on them.. They have 24 LED's and screw into normal light sockets. The light emitted is bright, clean, and softwhite. When

Re: [MBZ] (SPAM?) Re: The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Jim Cathey
to a man, here, everyone sez do the unemployment. I did not use it, and I was out of work for 1.5 years. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To

Re: [MBZ] (SPAM?) Re: The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Michael Canfield
I am self-employed, pay my self-employment tax but cannot get unemployment if I go out of business. Union reps can shuffle workers and give them just enough weeks of work to draw full unemployment benefits while many work side jobs under the table. Unemployment insurance and it's manipulation by

[MBZ] Oil pan ?'s

2011-07-07 Thread Michael Canfield
Is the oil pan the same on both my 78 300cd and 83 300d? The area near the drain plug is messed up on the 83 and I want to replace the oil pan. Thanks, Mike ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Alex Chamberlain
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 6:34 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: You meter them where the electricity goes in. In the case of threaded lamp socket bulbs, that's the threads and the center tip of the base. Or put them in a lamp with a cord and use a Kill-A-Watt. Alex

Re: [MBZ] (SPAM?) Re: The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Jim Cathey
Or put them in a lamp with a cord and use a Kill-A-Watt. I'm not sure how well its power-factor reading tracks things like diode imbalance, etc. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives

Re: [MBZ] 5w40 euro Quaker State at Big Lots

2011-07-07 Thread Michael Canfield
They have it here in the local big lots. Is that the best oil to run in my 300d for the money? Mike On Jul 7, 2011 9:01 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: $4 a qt. I wonder if this is the same thing as eurospec Castrol, considering that they are the same company.

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Curt Raymond
Who says the compact florescents burn out quick? In fact I've never seen one fail that wasn't mounted upside down and the more recent ones seem to tolerate inverse mounting reasonably well. When we moved into our house everything had 100w incandescents, apparently the old man who lived there

Re: [MBZ] (SPAM?) Re: The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread G Mann
The box they come in reads, AC use only. guess that was good enough for me so I bought them I know that I like them much better than stinky CFL crap lights and I know the current draw is minimal with good light. I like that they give light without making heat. Buy one, test it to your

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread andrew strasfogel
The price is way down on the corkscrew CFLs and while they can and do burn out after a year they aren't expensive to repair. Plus, as a bonus every time I purchase a CFL and throw out an old incandescent a Tea Bagger gags!! On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com

[MBZ] Ebayer high on something - 300SE L 6.3 sitting and rusting away in PA

2011-07-07 Thread andrew strasfogel
Might not be realistic on the asking price but at least he is somewhat honest. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Mercedes-Benz-300-SEL-6-3-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem20bade31f0QQitemZ140574077424QQptZSalvageQ5fPartsQ5fCars ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Jim Cathey
I've also never encountered a dimmer that didn't make noise no matter what kind of bulbs, I use a Variac on the bedside (incandescent) reading light. Zero noise. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search

Re: [MBZ] Gummit brainwashing WAS: The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Mountain Man
Dieselhead wrote: I barfed, took my c or d and got out. That is exactly what I did. The department was s regimented I could not fathom how I could do this for another year. Just wy too demeaning for my interests. Of course, being in private industry has gotten me zero position, zero

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Mitch Haley
andrew strasfogel wrote: The price is way down on the corkscrew CFLs and while they can and do burn out after a year they aren't expensive to repair. Plus, as a bonus every time I purchase a CFL and throw out an old incandescent a Tea Bagger gags!! What in the world do CFLs have to do with

Re: [MBZ] (SPAM?) Re: The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Mountain Man
Mike wrote: ...everything we can get for free American workforce is going to be what bankrupts our economy.  Some Americans need to take notes from some of the cursed illegals and actually work a fair day for a fair days pay. Gimme that job, I'm there. And, I'm there if stuff ends. Nice house

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Mountain Man
Grant wrote: Respectfully request I be excluded from the to the man group in your quest for truth and justice.  I support your quest for independence from the nanny state mindless mentality. That's right - I recall your support a while back in this quest. And, thanks Mitch - I will be looking

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Mountain Man
Max wrote: You can't change the terms of the discussion and actually apply reason, you will be labeled a denierand scorned, ridiculed, or worse (but you probably already know this) Same with truthers about holocaust 911. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] (SPAM?) Re: The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Mitch Haley
Mountain Man wrote: If I can make it like JimC, I will, but it don't look that way and age and completely dead market niche does not make things look even close to hopeful - but we'll stick to it, somehow. Set up shop rebuilding failed MBZ electronics? I don't recommend buying POS R107s to

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Allan Streib
On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 08:07 -0700, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: Who says the compact florescents burn out quick? In fact I've never seen one fail that wasn't mounted upside down and the more recent ones seem to tolerate inverse mounting reasonably well. I've used them, I would not

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread redghost
His realtor told him to use 100 watt to make the place more inviting and likely to sell. I have terrible life with CF, but that is due to not having any upright lamps in which to stick them. For the cost, I will go incandescent since those do last upside down. The power company can

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Curt Raymond
Must be something about my house I guess. I don't think I've ever replaced a CFL... The one next to my furnace is totally upside down, my back porch light (a CFL Spotlight which is a CFL with a reflector) is almost upside down and the one over the dryer is sideways as is the one in the range

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread redghost
could be my 80+ year old wiring, though most of it is actually less than 11 years old. No real idea why I get crap CFL life. Still not cost effective to use the stupid things. I like the heat coming off a bulb in the winter. Reduces heating costs. clay Gump - She is green, simple and

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread astrasfogel
They are pro incandescent. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net Sender: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 11:45:24 To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Mitch Haley
astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: They are pro incandescent. I must have missed that in the 2010 election news. Care to cite an example? Mitch ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Randy Bennell
On 07/07/2011 12:58 PM, redghost wrote: could be my 80+ year old wiring, though most of it is actually less than 11 years old. No real idea why I get crap CFL life. Still not cost effective to use the stupid things. I like the heat coming off a bulb in the winter. Reduces heating costs.

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread OK Don
I have almost all CFL in our house. The first few years we tried them, they only lasted a year or two. The next set we bought are still running with one exception. They are standard models (nothing special), nd are upside down, right side up, sideways, inside and outside. this house was built in

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Allan Streib
I don't identify as a tea partier, and I have no problem with you using CFLs in your home if that's what you want to do. I do have a problem with the federal government micromanaging what should be a free market choice. It's nothing to do with incandescent bulbs in particular, they are just a

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread andrew strasfogel
Same as seat belt and helmet laws - they are designed to promote the public welfare and save public costs at a small cost in personal freedom (the right to act recklessly?). Who pays for the hospital bills of brain-damaged unhelmeted motorcyclists without insurance? We all do, whether you

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Randy Bennell
On 07/07/2011 3:59 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote: Same as seat belt and helmet laws - they are designed to promote the public welfare and save public costs at a small cost in personal freedom (the right to act recklessly?). Who pays for the hospital bills of brain-damaged unhelmeted motorcyclists

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Dieselhead
No, they are Pro-choice. Show me exactly wherein the US constitution it gives the federal gummit the power to dictate what citizens choose to buy or not buy. Same thing goes for the shovey VoltZap They are pro incandescent. andrew strasfogel wrote: The price is way down on the

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread astrasfogel
Because our elected representatives know better than to enact something so idiotic. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca Sender: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 16:17:08 To: Mercedes Discussion

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread astrasfogel
They are anti choice for what really matters - women's rights. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com Sender: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 16:07:49 To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Dieselhead
Similarly, the cumulative savings in energy efficiency from a national perspective are worth the cost and inconvenience - as determined by your/our democratically elected representatives - of phasing out incandescent bulbs for more efficient lighting. The gummit is given express powers for

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Dieselhead
Here here! Right on Randy! We can save lots of power using andrew's logic by turning off the juice in DC and surrounding areas, except from noon to 1 PM daily. On 07/07/2011 3:59 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote: Same as seat belt and helmet laws - they are designed to promote the public

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Dieselhead
andrew, your slip is showing They are anti choice for what really matters - women's rights. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com Sender: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 16:07:49 To: Mercedes

[MBZ] Gump swap job

2011-07-07 Thread redghost
http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/2481215278.html Might be worth the effort to just swap over the engine to Gump. Not sure how much hacking I would need to do to the drive shaft. Manual transmission in Gump. Then part out this heap to make back the purchase price clay Gump -

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Mitch Haley
astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Because our elected representatives know better than to enact something so idiotic. ROTFL! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

Re: [MBZ] Gump swap job

2011-07-07 Thread Mitch Haley
redghost wrote: http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/2481215278.html Might be worth the effort to just swap over the engine to Gump. Not sure how much hacking I would need to do to the drive shaft. Manual transmission in Gump. Then part out this heap to make back the purchase price

Re: [MBZ] Gump swap job

2011-07-07 Thread redghost
This guy claims to have run it dry, not to have stored it sans fluid for 30 years. The 240D guy also said his engine was in a 115, but was for a 123. The situation I am looking at is to have a side by side frankenstein transferal of power-plant into Gump. Being able to swap over all the

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Max Dillon
I pay my power bill, not the government, so your analogy fails. What if I don't want a mercury-containing product, would rather pay a higher power bill? This is an infringement of my liberty for false reasons (global warming). Max -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my

Re: [MBZ] Gump swap job

2011-07-07 Thread Walt Zarnoch
617 engine mount location is 4 forward from the 616. On Jul 7, 2011 8:07 PM, redghost redgh...@comcast.net wrote: This guy claims to have run it dry, not to have stored it sans fluid for 30 years. The 240D guy also said his engine was in a 115, but was for a 123. The situation I am looking at

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Craig
On Wed, 6 Jul 2011 18:57:11 -0500 Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: It is a discussion about quality, measurement of quality, and the use of real math to create control charts. In this case, the quality being measured is air temp. The truth is that recorded history of temps is just a

[MBZ] Winmutt's clan adds another!

2011-07-07 Thread Rolf
The jury is still out on the name but the newest addition weighed in at 7lb 10oz and 20inches at 2:45 on 7/5/2011! -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: baby.x.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1182864 bytes Desc: not available URL:

Re: [MBZ] Gump swap job

2011-07-07 Thread Jim Cathey
http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/2481215278.html Might be worth the effort to just swap over the engine to Gump. I would worry about the engine length. The 114 nose is longer (?) than the 115, all 6-cylinder gassers were 114's. Or so I recall. So would a 5zyl fit in a 4zyl hole, or

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread G Mann
So anyone... is this thread now in a section off the MBZ discussion list? Cause I would like to pass along a link that shows an example of our modern government at work in a short video clip. I'm a new guy on this list and don't wish to unduly bend any sensibilities.. On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at

Re: [MBZ] Winmutt's clan adds another!

2011-07-07 Thread G Mann
CONGRATULATIONS !!! Best wishes and good health to the whole family. On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 8:06 AM, Rolf r...@winmutt.com wrote: The jury is still out on the name but the newest addition weighed in at 7lb 10oz and 20inches at 2:45 on 7/5/2011! -- next part -- A

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread WILTON
BTW - an interesting little aside, well, to me, anyway: I spent a night at the site of the Greenland ice coring project by the National Science Foundation in July, 1978. Wilton - Original Message - From: Craig diese...@pisquared.net To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Allan Streib
Not to speak for Kaleb but IMO it's probably gone as far as it should on this list. I think everyone has said his piece and it's stayed reasonably civil. Could continue on the Banned list if you really want to. G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com writes: So anyone... is this thread now in a section

Re: [MBZ] Gump swap job

2011-07-07 Thread Dieselhead
ayup, the converse is true. But check carefully the differences between 616.916 and 616.912 The 76 OM617 would not fit in a 123 from everything I got my hands/eyes on. Biggest problem is the non-intercangeability of the canister oil filter VS the toploading 123 filter on the block.

Re: [MBZ] Gump swap job

2011-07-07 Thread Dieselhead
The 123 radiator is prastic. If this guy in MD really got the 616-912 in a 115, then maybe it will work. I thought i had pulled the oil filters to check. maybe I never did because all the info said no dice. This guy claims to have run it dry, not to have stored it sans fluid for 30 years.

Re: [MBZ] Gump swap job

2011-07-07 Thread Dieselhead
Intake, exhaust and throttle will interchange on all 4 cyl from 1959 to 1983 iron heads. On the 200D 2.4, I used the OM621 manifolds, exhaust and throttle linkage. (and oil bath air cleaner. I like the replacement cost of a clean filter) Also the engine back plate, rebalanced flywheel and a

Re: [MBZ] Gump swap job

2011-07-07 Thread OK Don
I don't remember what chassis gump is, but the '75-'76 W115 300D had an extended nose compared to the '70 220D W115. The rear of the 617 was closer to the firewall, and the front was closer to the radiator. On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 9:08 PM, Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote:

[MBZ] crack?

2011-07-07 Thread Allan Streib
http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/2479476200.html -- Allan Streib ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:

Re: [MBZ] crack?

2011-07-07 Thread andrew strasfogel
The pre-1980 W123 coupes had burl wood (nicer than zebrano IMO) but the inferior vertical button ACC module compared to later W123s as well as the sluggish non-aspirated diesel (or in this case a boring 6 cyl. gasser). Still, for $10K this is probably an appreciating classic. On Thu, Jul 7,

Re: [MBZ] crack?

2011-07-07 Thread Allan Streib
He does say he's replaced the ACC servo and amplifier. Just seemed like a lot of $$ to me, but I don't really have a feel for values on the coupes. Allan andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com writes: The pre-1980 W123 coupes had burl wood (nicer than zebrano IMO) but the inferior vertical

Re: [MBZ] crack?

2011-07-07 Thread Dimitri Seretakis
That is a pretty nice car. I never realized that they put burl wood in those. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 7, 2011, at 11:00 PM, andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: The pre-1980 W123 coupes had burl wood (nicer than zebrano IMO) but the inferior vertical button ACC module compared to

Re: [MBZ] crack?

2011-07-07 Thread Dieselhead
For that price, he shoulda left it in the PNW. Someone out there *might* pay close to that much, but i doubt it sells in indy. http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/2479476200.html -- Allan Streib ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to

Re: [MBZ] crack?

2011-07-07 Thread Alex Chamberlain
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 7:54 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/2479476200.html -- I think the airbag steering wheel looks stupid in there, all the more so since presumably the airbag itself is not hooked up to anything. Alex

Re: [MBZ] crack?

2011-07-07 Thread Dimitri Seretakis
True. Probably limited market in that location. It probably would generate some interest here in the Northeast being rust free and all. I still think it's a bit overpriced as you could get a 560SL for under 10K nowadays. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 7, 2011, at 11:10 PM, Dieselhead

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Dieselhead
There is NO constitutional basis for stealing from citizens to fund the aftermath of someone else's stupidity. And, in case you didn't notice, you really twisted to come up with a diversion from the question. Why not answe the question? Show me exactly where in the US constitution it gives

Re: [MBZ] Winmutt's clan adds another!

2011-07-07 Thread Walt Zarnoch
Congrats! Walt On Jul 7, 2011 8:44 PM, Rolf r...@winmutt.com wrote: The jury is still out on the name but the newest addition weighed in at 7lb 10oz and 20inches at 2:45 on 7/5/2011! -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: baby.x.jpg Type:

Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread G Mann
Good enough then.. I'll let it rest. On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 7:25 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: Not to speak for Kaleb but IMO it's probably gone as far as it should on this list. I think everyone has said his piece and it's stayed reasonably civil. Could continue on the

Re: [MBZ] crack?

2011-07-07 Thread Rick Knoble
Alex wrote ; I think the airbag steering wheel looks stupid in there, all the more so since presumably the airbag itself is not hooked up to anything. Wow. Nice catch Alex. Rick Who wishes he was that observant. Sent from my iPhone ___

Re: [MBZ] (no subject)

2011-07-07 Thread Bob Rentfro
List mama...can't you do something about this clown? Bob R On Jul 7, 2011 11:55 PM, Chase Kaufman shimmy...@hotmail.com wrote: Look at this proposal! It can change your life to better!... http://crecerproducciones.com.ar/sites.friend.php?uxjhotmailID=53em0