[PHP] OOP to run sequential SQL queries?
Dear list, We have a bunch of SQL-queries, they should be executed in a sequential order, with a defensive programming style in mind. We were thinking to implement the solution as Stored Procedures instead of a PHP solution that runs SQL queries, but an article in Coding Horro recommendeds to avoid SP for good reasons: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2004/10/who-needs-stored-procedures-anyways.html Now we're going to carry on in PHP, and my experience says that we should write the solution in a procedural-style, instead of OOP. Is there any benefit to use OOP in these situations? Please share your thoughts. Thanks, -behzad
Re: [PHP] OOP to run sequential SQL queries?
Am 17.02.13 17:00, schrieb AmirBehzad Eslami: Dear list, We have a bunch of SQL-queries, they should be executed in a sequential order, with a defensive programming style in mind. I don't understand what you want? Queries are executed sequentially or do you plan to create a multi-process PHP application? We were thinking to implement the solution as Stored Procedures instead of a PHP solution that runs SQL queries, but an article in Coding Horro recommendeds to avoid SP for good reasons: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2004/10/who-needs-stored-procedures-anyways.html Now we're going to carry on in PHP, and my experience says that we should write the solution in a procedural-style, instead of OOP. Is there any benefit to use OOP in these situations? Please share your thoughts. Thanks, -behzad -- Marco Behnke Dipl. Informatiker (FH), SAE Audio Engineer Diploma Zend Certified Engineer PHP 5.3 Tel.: 0174 / 9722336 e-Mail: ma...@behnke.biz Softwaretechnik Behnke Heinrich-Heine-Str. 7D 21218 Seevetal http://www.behnke.biz signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [PHP] OOP to run sequential SQL queries?
Hi, We were thinking to implement the solution as Stored Procedures instead of a PHP solution that runs SQL queries, but an article in Coding Horro recommendeds to avoid SP for good reasons: The article shows only one thing. that common practice should be to 'do everything where it belongs' If you implement this practice within your application, it becomes more maintainable, more performant and easier to develop. Also, to determine the styles used to write your code, is almost entirely dependent on a few things: * Programmer's preference * The problem you are solving * The standards that are commonly used in the environment you are in Is there any benefit to use OOP in these situations? Benefits of OOP are that it becomes easier to implement a more standardized code structure, better match with reality, clearer code, more structure, re-usability, and a modular design. These can all be done in procedural code as well, the difference being you need a different mind- and skillset. HTH Kind regards/met vriendelijke groet, Serge Fonville http://www.sergefonville.nl Convince Microsoft! They need to add TRUNCATE PARTITION in SQL Server https://connect.microsoft.com/SQLServer/feedback/details/417926/truncate-partition-of-partitioned-table 2013/2/17 Marco Behnke ma...@behnke.biz Am 17.02.13 17:00, schrieb AmirBehzad Eslami: Dear list, We have a bunch of SQL-queries, they should be executed in a sequential order, with a defensive programming style in mind. I don't understand what you want? Queries are executed sequentially or do you plan to create a multi-process PHP application? We were thinking to implement the solution as Stored Procedures instead of a PHP solution that runs SQL queries, but an article in Coding Horro recommendeds to avoid SP for good reasons: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2004/10/who-needs-stored-procedures-anyways.html Now we're going to carry on in PHP, and my experience says that we should write the solution in a procedural-style, instead of OOP. Is there any benefit to use OOP in these situations? Please share your thoughts. Thanks, -behzad -- Marco Behnke Dipl. Informatiker (FH), SAE Audio Engineer Diploma Zend Certified Engineer PHP 5.3 Tel.: 0174 / 9722336 e-Mail: ma...@behnke.biz Softwaretechnik Behnke Heinrich-Heine-Str. 7D 21218 Seevetal http://www.behnke.biz
Re: [PHP] OOP to run sequential SQL queries?
On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 10:00 AM, AmirBehzad Eslami behzad.esl...@gmail.com wrote: We have a bunch of SQL-queries, they should be executed in a sequential order, with a defensive programming style in mind. We were thinking to implement the solution as Stored Procedures instead of a PHP solution that runs SQL queries, but an article in Coding Horro recommendeds to avoid SP for good reasons: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2004/10/who-needs-stored-procedures-anyways.html As has been said, everything has it's place, every tool has it's use, but we've all used that screwdriver to both open a can of paint and then bang on the lid with handle to get it closed again. Meaning that just because there's a tool to hand, it doesn't always mean it's the right thing. I tend to use stored procs when what I need to get accomplished resides well within the database and utilizes the database engine more effectively, and when such activities might become I/O bandwidth issues if it were all done serially within the application. In other words, very few and far between. If the dataset is large and involves some very complex queries (lots of nested selects and so on), it is often better as a stored proc. But there is a caveat there as well in that often times the skill sets for maintaining complex SQL code can be a lot harder to find and acquire than the skill set for maintaining the same logic in PHP. So, no absolutes, one way or another. Now we're going to carry on in PHP, and my experience says that we should write the solution in a procedural-style, instead of OOP. Is there any benefit to use OOP in these situations? Please share your thoughts. This is actually a very similar question: again, no absolutes. An OO approach is well fit for some aspects of implementation, and a procedural approach to others, and then there is the functional approach, which is yet another way of looking at the problem. Even with that, all three can come into play in any given application. What is to be gained by using an object approach, versus procedural, versus functional? If it's a fairly confined operation, perhaps wrapping it in an object might give some more portability, and if the rest of the application utilizes an object approach, would be a good way to go. If the rest of the application is primarily procedural, then introducing an object approach might become more of a maintenance issue. So, really, it's not a simple answer. There are far too many considerations. Other things to consider: does the entire series of queries need to be performed in a locked state, i.e., if the database records change during the series of queries, will things break? This has very huge performance considerations, and should be taken into account. One of the purported uses of stored procs is that it's easier to implement an atomic operation such as that, but that's really not entirely accurate either. It's quite possible to lock and release while still running the queries sequentially from code. The round-trip factors of I/O do weigh more heavily here. My overall suggestion: Do it the simplest way you can right now, measure, charaacterize, look at how the whole app operates, and refactor what needs to be refactored when you have some actual performance data. Recognize also that simplest is pretty subjective based upon you and your fellow devs experiences and points of view. A super DBA person might be able to snap off a stored proc in no time; while an experience PHPer might be able to do the same procedurally. It doesn't mean either one is better than the other. Only putting it into play and actually measuring it will do that. Stumbling over how best to do something is very often less optimal than just implementing and seeing for yourself. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] OOP problems
Hello, I would like to ask you for help. This days I am trying to build one of my applications. But I have problem which stopped me. I have folder whit php files like connect.php, delete.php etc. These files contains classes named the same as files. So in file connect.php is class Connect. These files are placed in folder named mysql and this folder is inside folder named db. In folder db is a php file named mysql.php, in this file I include classes from folder mysql, after include I declare class MySQL and in it I have method __construct(). In this method I create dynamic objects from included classes. And this is the problem that I can not solve, I have more then one of this files(mysql.php[whit class MySQL], oracle.php[whit class Oracle] etc.) and I need to include them to file called db.php that is in the main folder of my app. In db.php is an class called db, how can I add classes MySQL, Oracle etc. to class db? I try to use abstract class whit __set and __get methods but I also need to include class db to main class application. I am really sorry for my English, so please be indulgent. So I need to connect classes like this: application-db-mysql-connect, but I can not use extends because in php you can have only one parent class. The reason why I am trying to do something like this is because I want to call methods like this: $test = new application(); $test-db-connect(); If it is mysql or othet database I set in config.php file. I need to achieve this schema( - is something like ../ it means that it is one level up folder): connec.php(class Connect MySql)- select.php(class Select MySql) - - mysql.php(class MySQL include all classes, Connect...)- - ... - - db.php(class db include all classes, MySQL, Oracle..) connec.php(class Connect Oracle)- select.php(class Select Oracle ) - - oracle .php(class Oracle include all classes, Connect...)- - ... - download.php(class Download)- unzip.php(class Unzip) - - files.php(class Files include all classes, Download...) - file.php(class file include class Files) - ... - hash.php(class Hash)- capcha.php(class Capcha) - - secure.php(class Secure include all classes, Hash...) - security.php(class security include class Secure) - ... - ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. And in the end, in the same folder as db.php and security.php I will have file application.php which will contain class application and in its __construct() method I will make link classes db, security, file ect. ect. So I will just include file application.php make object from class application and then just do $object-db-connect()(of course if it will by MySql or other database will be stored in some config.php file). Thanks, Dominik
Re: [PHP] OOP problems
I'm not sure I've understood you correctly, but you may try something
like the following primitive autoloader (I didn't debug it, it's just
an example):
class Base
{
protected $_path = '';
public function construct($base_path)
{
$this-_path = $base_path;
}
public function __get($name)
{
$requested_path = $this-_path . DIRECTORY_SEPARATOR . $name;
if (is_dir($requested_path))
{
return new Base($requested_path);
}
else if (is_file($requested_path . '.php'))
{
include ($requested_path . '.php');
$classname = ucfirst($name);
return new $clasname();
}
}
}
// Assuming you have Mysql class in /home/user/project/classes/db/mysql.php
// you may try
$base = new Base(/home/user/project/classes/);
$base-db-mysql-someFunctionOfMysqlClass();
2011/12/15 Dominik Halvoník dominik.halvo...@gmail.com:
Hello,
I would like to ask you for help. This days I am trying to build one of my
applications. But I have problem which stopped me. I have folder whit php
files like connect.php, delete.php etc. These files contains classes named
the same as files. So in file connect.php is class Connect. These files are
placed in folder named mysql and this folder is inside folder named db. In
folder db is a php file named mysql.php, in this file I include classes
from folder mysql, after include I declare class MySQL and in it I have
method __construct(). In this method I create dynamic objects from included
classes. And this is the problem that I can not solve, I have more then one
of this files(mysql.php[whit class MySQL], oracle.php[whit class Oracle]
etc.) and I need to include them to file called db.php that is in the main
folder of my app. In db.php is an class called db, how can I add classes
MySQL, Oracle etc. to class db? I try to use abstract class whit __set and
__get methods but I also need to include class db to main class
application. I am really sorry for my English, so please be indulgent. So I
need to connect classes like this:
application-db-mysql-connect, but I can not use extends because in php
you can have only one parent class. The reason why I am trying to do
something like this is because I want to call methods like this:
$test = new application();
$test-db-connect();
If it is mysql or othet database I set in config.php file.
I need to achieve this schema( - is something like ../ it means that it is
one level up folder):
connec.php(class Connect MySql)-
select.php(class Select MySql) -
- mysql.php(class MySQL include all classes, Connect...)-
-
... -
- db.php(class db include all classes, MySQL, Oracle..)
connec.php(class Connect Oracle)-
select.php(class Select Oracle ) -
- oracle .php(class Oracle include all classes, Connect...)-
-
... -
download.php(class Download)-
unzip.php(class Unzip) -
- files.php(class Files include all classes, Download...) -
file.php(class file include class Files)
-
... -
hash.php(class Hash)-
capcha.php(class Capcha) -
- secure.php(class Secure include all classes, Hash...) -
security.php(class security include class Secure)
-
... -
ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect.
And in the end, in the same folder as db.php and security.php I will have
file application.php which will contain class application and in its
__construct() method I will make link classes db, security, file ect. ect.
So I will just include file application.php make object from class
application and then just do $object-db-connect()(of course if it will by
MySql or other database will be stored in some config.php file).
Thanks,
Dominik
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Re: [PHP] OOP problems
On 12/15/2011 01:05 PM, Alex Pojarsky wrote:
I'm not sure I've understood you correctly, but you may try something
like the following primitive autoloader (I didn't debug it, it's just
an example):
class Base
{
protected $_path = '';
public function construct($base_path)
{
$this-_path = $base_path;
}
public function __get($name)
{
$requested_path = $this-_path . DIRECTORY_SEPARATOR . $name;
if (is_dir($requested_path))
{
return new Base($requested_path);
}
else if (is_file($requested_path . '.php'))
{
include ($requested_path . '.php');
$classname = ucfirst($name);
return new $clasname();
}
}
}
// Assuming you have Mysql class in /home/user/project/classes/db/mysql.php
// you may try
$base = new Base(/home/user/project/classes/);
$base-db-mysql-someFunctionOfMysqlClass();
2011/12/15 Dominik Halvoníkdominik.halvo...@gmail.com:
Hello,
I would like to ask you for help. This days I am trying to build one of my
applications. But I have problem which stopped me. I have folder whit php
files like connect.php, delete.php etc. These files contains classes named
the same as files. So in file connect.php is class Connect. These files are
placed in folder named mysql and this folder is inside folder named db. In
folder db is a php file named mysql.php, in this file I include classes
from folder mysql, after include I declare class MySQL and in it I have
method __construct(). In this method I create dynamic objects from included
classes. And this is the problem that I can not solve, I have more then one
of this files(mysql.php[whit class MySQL], oracle.php[whit class Oracle]
etc.) and I need to include them to file called db.php that is in the main
folder of my app. In db.php is an class called db, how can I add classes
MySQL, Oracle etc. to class db? I try to use abstract class whit __set and
__get methods but I also need to include class db to main class
application. I am really sorry for my English, so please be indulgent. So I
need to connect classes like this:
application-db-mysql-connect, but I can not use extends because in php
you can have only one parent class. The reason why I am trying to do
something like this is because I want to call methods like this:
$test = new application();
$test-db-connect();
If it is mysql or othet database I set in config.php file.
I need to achieve this schema( - is something like ../ it means that it is
one level up folder):
connec.php(class Connect MySql)-
select.php(class Select MySql) -
- mysql.php(class MySQL include all classes, Connect...)-
-
... -
- db.php(class db include all classes, MySQL, Oracle..)
connec.php(class Connect Oracle)-
select.php(class Select Oracle ) -
- oracle .php(class Oracle include all classes, Connect...)-
-
... -
download.php(class Download)-
unzip.php(class Unzip) -
- files.php(class Files include all classes, Download...) -
file.php(class file include class Files)
-
... -
hash.php(class Hash)-
capcha.php(class Capcha) -
- secure.php(class Secure include all classes, Hash...) -
security.php(class security include class Secure)
-
... -
ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect.
And in the end, in the same folder as db.php and security.php I will have
file application.php which will contain class application and in its
__construct() method I will make link classes db, security, file ect. ect.
So I will just include file application.php make object from class
application and then just do $object-db-connect()(of course if it will by
MySql or other database will be stored in some config.php file).
Thanks,
Dominik
Why don't you modify include_path on initialization of 'Base' class?
would make things much simpler.
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Re: [PHP] OOP problems
Hi guys, I try to applied your solutions but I have problems whit it. I need to achieve this schema( - is something like ../ it means that it is one level up folder): connec.php(class Connect MySql)- select.php(class Select MySql) - - mysql.php(class MySQL include all classes, Connect...)- - ... - - db.php(class db include all classes, MySQL, Oracle..) connec.php(class Connect Oracle)- select.php(class Select Oracle ) - - oracle .php(class Oracle include all classes, Connect...)- - ... - download.php(class Download)- unzip.php(class Unzip) - - files.php(class Files include all classes, Download...) - file.php(class file include class Files) - ... - hash.php(class Hash)- capcha.php(class Capcha) - - secure.php(class Secure include all classes, Hash...) - security.php(class security include class Secure) - ... - *ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. * And in the end, in the same folder as db.php and security.php I will have file application.php which will contain class application and in its __construct() method I will make link classes db, security, file ect. ect. So I will just include file application.php make object from class application and then just do $object-db-connect()(of course if it will by MySql or other database will be stored in some config.php file). Thanks, Dominik
[PHP] OOP problems
Hello, I would like to ask you for help. This days I am trying to build one of my applications. But I have problem which stopped me. I have folder whit php files like connect.php, delete.php etc. These files contains classes named the same as files. So in file connect.php is class Connect. These files are placed in folder named mysql and this folder is inside folder named db. In folder db is a php file named mysql.php, in this file I include classes from folder mysql, after include I declare class MySQL and in it I have method __construct(). In this method I create dynamic objects from included classes. And this is the problem that I can not solve, I have more then one of this files(mysql.php[whit class MySQL], oracle.php[whit class Oracle] etc.) and I need to include them to file called db.php that is in the main folder of my app. In db.php is an class called db, how can I add classes MySQL, Oracle etc. to class db? I try to use abstract class whit __set and __get methods but I also need to include class db to main class application. I am really sorry for my English, so please be indulgent. So I need to connect classes like this: application-db-mysql-connect, but I can not use extends because in php you can have only one parent class. The reason why I am trying to do something like this is because I want to call methods like this: $test = new application(); $test-db-connect(); If it is mysql or othet database I set in config.php file. Can you help my please? Sincerely, Dominik Halvonik
Re: [PHP] OOP problems
On 8 Dec 2011, at 17:14, Dominik Halvoník wrote:
I would like to ask you for help. This days I am trying to build one of my
applications. But I have problem which stopped me. I have folder whit php
files like connect.php, delete.php etc. These files contains classes named
the same as files. So in file connect.php is class Connect. These files are
placed in folder named mysql and this folder is inside folder named db. In
folder db is a php file named mysql.php, in this file I include classes
from folder mysql, after include I declare class MySQL and in it I have
method __construct(). In this method I create dynamic objects from included
classes. And this is the problem that I can not solve, I have more then one
of this files(mysql.php[whit class MySQL], oracle.php[whit class Oracle]
etc.) and I need to include them to file called db.php that is in the main
folder of my app. In db.php is an class called db, how can I add classes
MySQL, Oracle etc. to class db? I try to use abstract class whit __set and
__get methods but I also need to include class db to main class
application. I am really sorry for my English, so please be indulgent. So I
need to connect classes like this:
application-db-mysql-connect, but I can not use extends because in php
you can have only one parent class. The reason why I am trying to do
something like this is because I want to call methods like this:
$test = new application();
$test-db-connect();
If it is mysql or othet database I set in config.php file. Can you help my
please?
You don't say what the db class (in db.php) itself does other than wrapping the
database-specific classes, so I've assumed it doesn't do anything. If it does
do more then simply have the mysql, oracle, etc classes extend db.
I've also assumed that the application doesn't need to support multiple
database types simultaneously.
class application
{
public $db = null;
function __construct($db = 'mysql')
{
require __DIR__.'/db/'.$db.'.php';
$this-db = new MySQL();
}
}
$test = new application('mysql');
$test-db-connect();
-Stuart
--
Stuart Dallas
3ft9 Ltd
http://3ft9.com/
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Re: [PHP] OOP problems
Sent from a handheld device On 08-Dec-2011, at 11:14 PM, Dominik Halvoník dominik.halvo...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I would like to ask you for help. This days I am trying to build one of my applications. But I have problem which stopped me. I have folder whit php files like connect.php, delete.php etc. These files contains classes named the same as files. So in file connect.php is class Connect. These files are placed in folder named mysql and this folder is inside folder named db. In folder db is a php file named mysql.php, in this file I include classes from folder mysql, after include I declare class MySQL and in it I have method __construct(). In this method I create dynamic objects from included classes. And this is the problem that I can not solve, I have more then one of this files(mysql.php[whit class MySQL], oracle.php[whit class Oracle] etc.) and I need to include them to file called db.php that is in the main folder of my app. In db.php is an class called db, how can I add classes MySQL, Oracle etc. to class db? I try to use abstract class whit __set and __get methods but I also need to include class db to main class application. I am really sorry for my English, so please be indulgent. So I need to connect classes like this: This is where common design patters comes handy. Your problem can be solved by factory pattern. Create a static method connect on db class. Then call it like $db = DB::connect($db_type) Here the db type variable contains MySQL or oracle. In connect static method you implement the logic on how to connect that specific database. In the connect method you can also take db credentials like username and password. Google php design pattern to know more. application-db-mysql-connect, but I can not use extends because in php you can have only one parent class. The reason why I am trying to do something like this is because I want to call methods like this: $test = new application(); $test-db-connect(); If it is mysql or othet database I set in config.php file. Can you help my please? Sincerely, Dominik Halvonik -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] OOP Design Question
Hello PHPers, I have a collection of about 60 objects (class definitions). They are all very similar. They all share a substantial % of the same core. But they all have slight variations as well. The approach I took was to make an abstract core class, and each of the 60 objects extends that core. This works, but... Here's my problem, not every php/http request requires all 60 objects. At this point, I do not know in advance which objects will be required, so i include the class def of all 60 objects every time... I don't like this idea as it seems a 'bloated' approach. So now i'm thinking instead i'll just have one object which has the union of all the 60 objects' methods. But i'm not too happy with this either b/c (i) now each instantiated object is carrying around a lot of unneccessary baggage, (ii) i lose modularity of code, and (iii) the code does not make as much 'intuitive' sense. For (iii), 'why does this object have this method?' type questions another programmer would ask (or me a year from now). The answer would be 'efficiency concerns', which i'm aware that you generally don't want to compromise code readability for efficiency if avoidable. Maybe this would be the perfect opportunity for the php autoload functions...? Thanks for your help/thoughts/comments, dK ` -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP Design Question
Set up autoloading: http://php.net/manual/en/language.oop5.autoload.php Cheers, Rob. Daniel Kolbo wrote: Hello PHPers, I have a collection of about 60 objects (class definitions). They are all very similar. They all share a substantial % of the same core. But they all have slight variations as well. The approach I took was to make an abstract core class, and each of the 60 objects extends that core. This works, but... Here's my problem, not every php/http request requires all 60 objects. At this point, I do not know in advance which objects will be required, so i include the class def of all 60 objects every time... I don't like this idea as it seems a 'bloated' approach. So now i'm thinking instead i'll just have one object which has the union of all the 60 objects' methods. But i'm not too happy with this either b/c (i) now each instantiated object is carrying around a lot of unneccessary baggage, (ii) i lose modularity of code, and (iii) the code does not make as much 'intuitive' sense. For (iii), 'why does this object have this method?' type questions another programmer would ask (or me a year from now). The answer would be 'efficiency concerns', which i'm aware that you generally don't want to compromise code readability for efficiency if avoidable. Maybe this would be the perfect opportunity for the php autoload functions...? Thanks for your help/thoughts/comments, dK ` -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP Design Question
On Sunday 20 December 2009 10:35:56 am Daniel Kolbo wrote: Hello PHPers, I have a collection of about 60 objects (class definitions). They are all very similar. They all share a substantial % of the same core. But they all have slight variations as well. The approach I took was to make an abstract core class, and each of the 60 objects extends that core. This works, but... Here's my problem, not every php/http request requires all 60 objects. At this point, I do not know in advance which objects will be required, so i include the class def of all 60 objects every time... I don't like this idea as it seems a 'bloated' approach. So now i'm thinking instead i'll just have one object which has the union of all the 60 objects' methods. But i'm not too happy with this either b/c (i) now each instantiated object is carrying around a lot of unneccessary baggage, (ii) i lose modularity of code, and (iii) the code does not make as much 'intuitive' sense. For (iii), 'why does this object have this method?' type questions another programmer would ask (or me a year from now). The answer would be 'efficiency concerns', which i'm aware that you generally don't want to compromise code readability for efficiency if avoidable. Maybe this would be the perfect opportunity for the php autoload functions...? Thanks for your help/thoughts/comments, dK ` Yep, this is a textbook case for a proper autoload setup. And no, cramming all of the functionality into one mega class won't get you any efficiency. In fact, it would be just as wasteful as loading all 60 classes even when you're only going to use 2; you're still loading up roughly the same amount of code. Parsing it as one mega class or one big parent with a few small child classes is about a break-even as far as performance goes, but the mega class is much poorer architecture. -- Larry Garfield la...@garfieldtech.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP Design Question
On Sunday 20 December 2009 1:08:46 pm you wrote: Maybe this would be the perfect opportunity for the php autoload functions...? Thanks for your help/thoughts/comments, dK ` Yep, this is a textbook case for a proper autoload setup. And no, cramming all of the functionality into one mega class won't get you any efficiency. In fact, it would be just as wasteful as loading all 60 classes even when you're only going to use 2; you're still loading up roughly the same amount of code. Parsing it as one mega class or one big parent with a few small child classes is about a break-even as far as performance goes, but the mega class is much poorer architecture. Thanks for your insight. I could probably setup autoloading, but I wonder if I would do it 'properly'. Do you have a link or reference that you'd recommend for howto do a 'proper autoload setup'? Thanks, dK Well, there is no universal agreement on what a proper setup is. :-) There is a group trying to establish a Java-like standard for all projects to use once they get to PHP 5.3 and namespaces, but there are still issues to work out and IMO it's not actually a good approach for many use cases. I'd argue that proper depends in a large part on your specific use case. The most important aspect of a good autoload mechanism, though, is that it's fast and extensible. Use spl_autoload_register() instead of __autoload(), and make sure that you keep the runtime of your autoload callbacks to an absolute minimum. (A DB hit per autoload, for instance, is a no-no.) Beyond that, varies with your project. -- Larry Garfield la...@garfieldtech.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] OOP Design Software
Hello, Is there an objected oriented programming software that can help me keep track of my methods and properties of my objects. My memory is not what it used to be, and i'd like to have a quick 'overview' or layout of all the objects I have to work with. Maybe the software would even let make a process flow chart. This would really help my design (and save me time). Thanks, dK ` -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] OOP Design Software
Hi Daniel, You can use Eclipse with plugin PDT or Zend Studio. They can track your classes and methods. They can remember your methods and classes also they have code completion abilities. Thanks Caner. -Original Message- From: Daniel Kolbo [mailto:kolb0...@umn.edu] Sent: 26 July 2009 19:46 To: PHP General Subject: [PHP] OOP Design Software Hello, Is there an objected oriented programming software that can help me keep track of my methods and properties of my objects. My memory is not what it used to be, and i'd like to have a quick 'overview' or layout of all the objects I have to work with. Maybe the software would even let make a process flow chart. This would really help my design (and save me time). Thanks, dK ` -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP Design Software
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 12:54 PM, Caner BULUTcaner...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Daniel, You can use Eclipse with plugin PDT or Zend Studio. They can track your classes and methods. They can remember your methods and classes also they have code completion abilities. Thanks Caner. -Original Message- From: Daniel Kolbo [mailto:kolb0...@umn.edu] Sent: 26 July 2009 19:46 To: PHP General Subject: [PHP] OOP Design Software Hello, Is there an objected oriented programming software that can help me keep track of my methods and properties of my objects. My memory is not what it used to be, and i'd like to have a quick 'overview' or layout of all the objects I have to work with. Maybe the software would even let make a process flow chart. This would really help my design (and save me time). Thanks, dK ` -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php There's plugins for Eclipse that generate UML, too. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP Design Software
Caner BULUT wrote: Hi Daniel, You can use Eclipse with plugin PDT or Zend Studio. They can track your classes and methods. They can remember your methods and classes also they have code completion abilities. Thanks Caner. -Original Message- From: Daniel Kolbo [mailto:kolb0...@umn.edu] Sent: 26 July 2009 19:46 To: PHP General Subject: [PHP] OOP Design Software Hello, Is there an objected oriented programming software that can help me keep track of my methods and properties of my objects. My memory is not what it used to be, and i'd like to have a quick 'overview' or layout of all the objects I have to work with. Maybe the software would even let make a process flow chart. This would really help my design (and save me time). Thanks, dK ` Wow. Thanks for the reference. I've been playing with EclipsePDT for about 30-45 minutes. I've been developing strictly off of a text editor (with some syntax coloring but that's it). This Eclipse project looks so big. There'll be a bit of a learning curve with the EclipsePDT but seeing that it was developed in part by Zend and also that smarty.net uses it, i can rest assured that my time learning/implementing eclipse will save me a great deal of time in the long haul. I am glad to see it has integration with xdebug and CVS. I'll have to postpone my weekend coding goals to learn Eclipse and see how to integrate it into my development process. Thanks for the recommendation (and quick too). Thanks, dK ` -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] PHP, OOP and AJAX
Update. Hello Everyone, First of all, thank you all for your input. I ran a sinmple test using the suggestions you gave me and and require_once. Using firebug to test the output, I got an internal server error. I found out what the problem was. What I am doing is I have classes which represent the objects, another class containing the functions. From the function class I create an instance of each object, manipulate the information, return the HTML result. Finally I have a runner class that creates an instance of the function class, calls the function required and outputs the information. What the problem was for some reason I was did not create an instance of the function class, just was calling the function. Well by creating the runner class I solved the problem. Thanks all for your help. Regards Julian
[PHP] PHP, OOP and AJAX
Hi Everyone, This is the first time that I am posting in the PHP forum, so hope that I am osting in the right place. I would like to say that before submitting to this forum I have done some research looking for a solution without success. I had been programming in ASP.NET for years using Object Oriented Princeliness but decided to walk away from that. I am now researching and specialising in the open source world. I have started to develop a project using MySQL, PHP and OOP. So far I have succeed. However I got stuck once I started implement AJAX using the AJAX tutorial from w3schools.com. What I have discovered is: for some reason when you call a file that requires other fies using the REQUIRE or INCLUDE it just does not work. I can conform this as I have tested with out the the functions. Has anyone ever meet such a situation can you give me some feedback please. Thank you very much in advance for your support. Regards Julian
[PHP] Re: PHP, OOP and AJAX
Julian, could you please show us an example of this problem? -- João Cândido de Souza Neto SIENS SOLUÇÕES EM GESTÃO DE NEGÓCIOS Fone: (0XX41) 3033-3636 - JS www.siens.com.br Julian Muscat Doublesin opensourc...@gmail.com escreveu na mensagem news:5e0039ed0905280431o2e9d8036u217b0449eccd...@mail.gmail.com... Hi Everyone, This is the first time that I am posting in the PHP forum, so hope that I am osting in the right place. I would like to say that before submitting to this forum I have done some research looking for a solution without success. I had been programming in ASP.NET for years using Object Oriented Princeliness but decided to walk away from that. I am now researching and specialising in the open source world. I have started to develop a project using MySQL, PHP and OOP. So far I have succeed. However I got stuck once I started implement AJAX using the AJAX tutorial from w3schools.com. What I have discovered is: for some reason when you call a file that requires other fies using the REQUIRE or INCLUDE it just does not work. I can conform this as I have tested with out the the functions. Has anyone ever meet such a situation can you give me some feedback please. Thank you very much in advance for your support. Regards Julian -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP, OOP and AJAX
i never faced such a problem and i can assure you that it will never
happen. try...
main.php
?php
require('second.php');
?
second.php
test
call main.php via AJAX and see the responseText.
many things can go wrong in your coding. dont come to the conclusion
that this particular thing is not working.
i recommend you firebug firefox adddon (just go to the net tab and you
can see all the details of the communication between client and
server)
and i find it helpful to use a standard javascript(jQuery in my case)
library instead of highly limited plain javascript language
and for you case its difficult to comment without seeing your actual code.
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Re: Re: [PHP] Re: PHP, OOP and AJAX
Two things:
1. Try using the fully qualified path (ie /var/www/foo/bar.php instead of
foo/bar.php)
2. Look at setting up autoloading so you don't need to manually include
anyway. If you're going OOP, autoloading is a must!
On May 28, 2009 8:49am, kranthi kranthi...@gmail.com wrote:
i never faced such a problem and i can assure you that it will never
happen. try...
main.php
require('second.php');
?
second.php
test
call main.php via AJAX and see the responseText.
many things can go wrong in your coding. dont come to the conclusion
that this particular thing is not working.
i recommend you firebug firefox adddon (just go to the net tab and you
can see all the details of the communication between client and
server)
and i find it helpful to use a standard javascript(jQuery in my case)
library instead of highly limited plain javascript language
and for you case its difficult to comment without seeing your actual code.
--
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To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP, OOP and AJAX
2009/5/28 kranthi kranthi...@gmail.com i recommend you firebug firefox adddon (just go to the net tab and you can see all the details of the communication between client and server) and i find it helpful to use a standard javascript(jQuery in my case) library instead of highly limited plain javascript language I also recommend using FirePHP with FireBug here's a nicely written tutorial on how to use them both together for Ajax'ed pages. http://tr.im/iyvl Thanks Lenin www.twitter.com/nine_L
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP, OOP and AJAX
Hi! Do not use low-level AJAX. There are many frameworks for ajax (JQUERY). Try to use PHP frameworks like symfony, zend framework. They simplify your work. 2009/5/28 Lenin le...@phpxperts.net 2009/5/28 kranthi kranthi...@gmail.com i recommend you firebug firefox adddon (just go to the net tab and you can see all the details of the communication between client and server) and i find it helpful to use a standard javascript(jQuery in my case) library instead of highly limited plain javascript language I also recommend using FirePHP with FireBug here's a nicely written tutorial on how to use them both together for Ajax'ed pages. http://tr.im/iyvl Thanks Lenin www.twitter.com/nine_L
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP, OOP and AJAX
2009/5/28 Olexandr Heneralov ohenera...@gmail.com Hi! Do not use low-level AJAX. There are many frameworks for ajax (JQUERY). Try to use PHP frameworks like symfony, zend framework. They simplify your work. 2009/5/28 Lenin le...@phpxperts.net 2009/5/28 kranthi kranthi...@gmail.com i recommend you firebug firefox adddon (just go to the net tab and you can see all the details of the communication between client and server) and i find it helpful to use a standard javascript(jQuery in my case) library instead of highly limited plain javascript language I also recommend using FirePHP with FireBug here's a nicely written tutorial on how to use them both together for Ajax'ed pages. http://tr.im/iyvl Thanks Lenin www.twitter.com/nine_L Moo, I would say learn to do PHP by itself before you go using frameworks. AJAX is a bit different though because there will be few reasons that you will ever need to write low level code when you're using a library like Prototype =) -- Luke Slater :O)
Re: Re: [PHP] Re: PHP, OOP and AJAX
oorza...@gmail.com wrote in message news:000e0cd6ad1a9f7d3d046af89...@google.com... Two things: 1. Try using the fully qualified path (ie /var/www/foo/bar.php instead of foo/bar.php) 2. Look at setting up autoloading so you don't need to manually include anyway. If you're going OOP, autoloading is a must! I totally disagree. I have been doing OOP with PHP for years, and I have never used autoloading. It is just a feature that can be used, misused or abused just like any other. I choose not to use it, and my code does not suffer in the least! -- Tony Marston http://www.tonymarston.net http://www.radicore.org -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: Re: [PHP] Re: PHP, OOP and AJAX
Eddie Drapkin oorza...@gmail.com wrote in message
news:68de37340905280737t3e1ad844y188ab8fa08f17...@mail.gmail.com...
Your code might not, but you sure do! Spending all that time writing
require statements = :(
If you are too lazy to write require statements then you are probably too
lazy to write readable, well structured and efficient code. Besides, I don't
use require statements, I use
$dbobject = singleton::getInstance('classname');
I don't use autoload because *I* want to be in control. I prefer not to rely
on automatuic features which may not work as expected.
--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Tony Marston
t...@marston-home.demon.co.uk
wrote:
oorza...@gmail.com wrote in message
news:000e0cd6ad1a9f7d3d046af89...@google.com...
Two things:
1. Try using the fully qualified path (ie /var/www/foo/bar.php instead
of
foo/bar.php)
2. Look at setting up autoloading so you don't need to manually include
anyway. If you're going OOP, autoloading is a must!
I totally disagree. I have been doing OOP with PHP for years, and I have
never used autoloading. It is just a feature that can be used, misused or
abused just like any other. I choose not to use it, and my code does not
suffer in the least!
--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
--
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Re: Re: [PHP] Re: PHP, OOP and AJAX
There's a huge difference between laziness and opting in to use an
incredibly useful (and easy to properly deploy) feature to save myself time
so that I can spend more time writing that structured and efficient code of
which you speak. And the problem with what you're saying is that you still
have to include 'singleton.php' somewhere in order to call its static
methods, and I'd rather just spend 30 minutes writing an autoloader object
and letting it deal with finding any of the classes I use then trying to
keep track of legacy code I didn't write and require'ing them all over the
place.
The way I look at it, if you spend all your time handling things that you
could automate - and if written properly, will always work as expected (it's
called unit testing and debugging) - then you have no time to write that
structured and efficient code in order to meet your deadlines! :)
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Tony Marston
t...@marston-home.demon.co.uk wrote:
Eddie Drapkin oorza...@gmail.com wrote in message
news:68de37340905280737t3e1ad844y188ab8fa08f17...@mail.gmail.com...
Your code might not, but you sure do! Spending all that time writing
require statements = :(
If you are too lazy to write require statements then you are probably too
lazy to write readable, well structured and efficient code. Besides, I
don't
use require statements, I use
$dbobject = singleton::getInstance('classname');
I don't use autoload because *I* want to be in control. I prefer not to
rely
on automatuic features which may not work as expected.
--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Tony Marston
t...@marston-home.demon.co.uk
wrote:
oorza...@gmail.com wrote in message
news:000e0cd6ad1a9f7d3d046af89...@google.com...
Two things:
1. Try using the fully qualified path (ie /var/www/foo/bar.php instead
of
foo/bar.php)
2. Look at setting up autoloading so you don't need to manually
include
anyway. If you're going OOP, autoloading is a must!
I totally disagree. I have been doing OOP with PHP for years, and I have
never used autoloading. It is just a feature that can be used, misused
or
abused just like any other. I choose not to use it, and my code does not
suffer in the least!
--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
--
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Re: Re: [PHP] Re: PHP, OOP and AJAX
Eddie Drapkin oorza...@gmail.com wrote in message
news:68de37340905280801m6964d355l2d6d8ef773f3b...@mail.gmail.com...
There's a huge difference between laziness and opting in to use an
incredibly useful (and easy to properly deploy) feature to save myself
time
so that I can spend more time writing that structured and efficient code
of
which you speak. And the problem with what you're saying is that you
still
have to include 'singleton.php' somewhere in order to call its static
methods,
I have a single general purpose include file which autmatically includes all
other standard files, so I never have to explicity load my singleton class.
and I'd rather just spend 30 minutes writing an autoloader object
and letting it deal with finding any of the classes I use then trying to
keep track of legacy code I didn't write and require'ing them all over the
place.
I'd rather not waste 30 minutes of my time writing a feature that I don't
need.
The difference between using and not using the autoload feature does not
have any measurable impact on either my development times, nor the execution
of my code, so I choose to not use it. That's my choice, and I'm sticking to
it.
The way I look at it, if you spend all your time handling things that you
could automate - and if written properly, will always work as expected
(it's
called unit testing and debugging) - then you have no time to write that
structured and efficient code in order to meet your deadlines! :)
Not using autoload does not have any noticeable effect on my deadlines, so I
have no incentive to use it. Just because you say that I *should* use it
carries no weight at all.
--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Tony Marston
t...@marston-home.demon.co.uk wrote:
Eddie Drapkin oorza...@gmail.com wrote in message
news:68de37340905280737t3e1ad844y188ab8fa08f17...@mail.gmail.com...
Your code might not, but you sure do! Spending all that time writing
require statements = :(
If you are too lazy to write require statements then you are probably
too
lazy to write readable, well structured and efficient code. Besides, I
don't
use require statements, I use
$dbobject = singleton::getInstance('classname');
I don't use autoload because *I* want to be in control. I prefer not to
rely
on automatuic features which may not work as expected.
--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Tony Marston
t...@marston-home.demon.co.uk
wrote:
oorza...@gmail.com wrote in message
news:000e0cd6ad1a9f7d3d046af89...@google.com...
Two things:
1. Try using the fully qualified path (ie /var/www/foo/bar.php
instead
of
foo/bar.php)
2. Look at setting up autoloading so you don't need to manually
include
anyway. If you're going OOP, autoloading is a must!
I totally disagree. I have been doing OOP with PHP for years, and I
have
never used autoloading. It is just a feature that can be used, misused
or
abused just like any other. I choose not to use it, and my code does
not
suffer in the least!
--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
--
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To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
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Re: [PHP] PHP, OOP and AJAX
On 5/28/09 7:31 AM, Julian Muscat Doublesin opensourc...@gmail.com
wrote:
I had been programming in ASP.NET for years using Object Oriented
Princeliness but decided to walk away from that. I am now researching and
specialising in the open source world.
yay!
I have started to develop a project using MySQL, PHP and OOP.
oh. not walking away from oop after all? sad ;-)
So far I have
succeed. However I got stuck once I started implement AJAX using the AJAX
tutorial from w3schools.com.
if using ajax, i recommend you take a look at jquery. i'm really quite taken
with it. it makes browser-independent ajax much easier.
What I have discovered is: for some reason when you call a file that
requires other fies using the REQUIRE or INCLUDE it just does not work. I
can conform this as I have tested with out the the functions.
i can't imagine a reason why an include would fail because the script was
invoked via XHR. my ajax back-end php scripts use included files. are you
sure this isn't a problem with the include path? to debug you could try
writing ini_get('include_path') to your log file.
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Re: [PHP] Re: PHP, OOP and AJAX
On Thu, 2009-05-28 at 16:17 +0300, Olexandr Heneralov wrote: Hi! Do not use low-level AJAX. There are many frameworks for ajax (JQUERY). Try to use PHP frameworks like symfony, zend framework. They simplify your work. 2009/5/28 Lenin le...@phpxperts.net 2009/5/28 kranthi kranthi...@gmail.com i recommend you firebug firefox adddon (just go to the net tab and you can see all the details of the communication between client and server) and i find it helpful to use a standard javascript(jQuery in my case) library instead of highly limited plain javascript language I also recommend using FirePHP with FireBug here's a nicely written tutorial on how to use them both together for Ajax'ed pages. http://tr.im/iyvl Thanks Lenin www.twitter.com/nine_L Real coders use low-level ajax... and code with rocks too ;) Ash www.ashleysheridan.co.uk -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP OOP
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Yannick Mortier mvmort...@googlemail.comwrote: 2009/2/9 tedd t...@sperling.com: snip Yes C++ is not bad for this, but it has also got some flaws. What language doesn't have flaws, dude? Out of all the OOP C++ and java are probably the most solid. And I _hate_ java... However, while I don't know PHP OOP, I am open to considering it because of the proliferation of web based applications. My personal opinion is that's where all programming is headed anyway, but that's just my opinion. With that said, what's the differences and advantages/disadvantages between C++ and PHP OOP? Cheers, tedd Both of them have got the disadvantage that they also support procedural programming. Some of your students will for sure not understand OOP immediately and they'll avoid using it this way. I guess Java is really a good idea, there are some great Editors around for it (Netbeans...) It's completely OOP and there are many great tutorials for it in the net, so a willing student can easily go on after the class is over. I really didn't like Java some months ago, but I have to learn it at school myself now and I think it's great to learn. It avoids most of the errors that come from C++'s pointers etc. so you can really focus on teaching OOP and not why you must always reserve memory etc. Later on it'll sure be easy to switch to other languages (though I can't really tell this because I started with C++ when I was ten years old and discovered PHP later and get to know Java know) So: My vote goes to Java, or if you want a decision between C++ and PHP it's C++. -- Currently developing a browsergame... http://www.p-game.de Trade - Expand - Fight Follow me at twitter! http://twitter.com/moortier -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- Kyle Terry | www.kyleterry.com Help kick start VOOM (Very Open Object Model) for a library of PHP classes. http://www.voom.me | IRC EFNet #voom
Re: [PHP] PHP OOP
Java is really awesome at OOP and it is great for teaching OOP or, shall we say illustrating OOP. OOP is a programming technique in general without any bias towards any programming language. Good background on OOP concepts is essential in learning language specific OOP implementation. So don't worry about languages. The important thing is, you know what OOP means. Also you can't compare PHP to other programming languages. PHP is new and mainly built for the web. With its raw power, it is simply incomparable. virgil http://www.jampmark.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: PHP OOP
I don't think that PHP is good language for teaching OOP as many folks above said. I have never programmed in OOP style but i plan to learn it. I started in PHP but i was little confused and i am used to program in procedural way in PHP, so i've decided to learn some pure OOP language. I am reading a book OOP Demystified, there are examples in both C++ and Java. And imo Java code is much more readable and understandable. So i think that Java is the best for learning OOP. I am also considering learning C#, if you dont mind that it's closely related to windows, it might be also a good choice. -- tedd t...@sperling.com píse v diskusním príspevku news:p0624080dc5b5fff1c...@[192.168.1.101]... Hi gang: At the college where I teach, they are considering teaching OOP, but they don't want to settle on a specific language. My thoughts are it's difficult to teach OOP without a language -- while the general concepts of OOP are interesting, people need to see how concepts are applied to understand how they work -- thus I think a specific language is required I lean toward C++ because I wrote in it for a few years AND C++ appears to be the most common, widespread, and popular OOP language. However, while I don't know PHP OOP, I am open to considering it because of the proliferation of web based applications. My personal opinion is that's where all programming is headed anyway, but that's just my opinion. With that said, what's the differences and advantages/disadvantages between C++ and PHP OOP? Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP OOP
Paul M Foster wrote: On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 11:02:37AM -0500, tedd wrote: As a side note, I think students should learn a language like C before learning something like Perl, Python or PHP. Having to deal with defining/declaring variables and their storage methods before use I think makes for more conscientious programmers. And pointers are an education all on their own. ;-} For teaching programming or OOP I would choose a language which concentrates on the topic. The hard stuff, which you have to deal with in C for example, can be learned later. I'm glad that I started programming in Pascal, not in C. If today I had to learn programming as such I would definitively opt for Python! My choice for learning OOP would be Python or even better Java cause you don't have the choice to do it in a procedural way. Marcus -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP OOP
Marcus Gnaß schrieb: Paul M Foster wrote: On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 11:02:37AM -0500, tedd wrote: As a side note, I think students should learn a language like C before learning something like Perl, Python or PHP. Having to deal with defining/declaring variables and their storage methods before use I think makes for more conscientious programmers. And pointers are an education all on their own. ;-} For teaching programming or OOP I would choose a language which concentrates on the topic. The hard stuff, which you have to deal with in C for example, can be learned later. I'm glad that I started programming in Pascal, not in C. If today I had to learn programming as such I would definitively opt for Python! My choice for learning OOP would be Python or even better Java cause you don't have the choice to do it in a procedural way. Marcus Hi @ all, but this is a php list... Regards Carlos -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP OOP
Where I study, Intro to OOP is taught in C# using Visual Studio 2003 and further OOP concepts are taught in Java, with the academic computer science of OOP alongside. On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 2:40 AM, Carlos Medina i...@simply-networks.dewrote: Marcus Gnaß schrieb: Paul M Foster wrote: On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 11:02:37AM -0500, tedd wrote: As a side note, I think students should learn a language like C before learning something like Perl, Python or PHP. Having to deal with defining/declaring variables and their storage methods before use I think makes for more conscientious programmers. And pointers are an education all on their own. ;-} For teaching programming or OOP I would choose a language which concentrates on the topic. The hard stuff, which you have to deal with in C for example, can be learned later. I'm glad that I started programming in Pascal, not in C. If today I had to learn programming as such I would definitively opt for Python! My choice for learning OOP would be Python or even better Java cause you don't have the choice to do it in a procedural way. Marcus Hi @ all, but this is a php list... Regards Carlos -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- I'm going out to find myself, if you see me here, keep me here untill I can catch up If I haven't said so already, Thanks Byron
Re: [PHP] PHP OOP
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Carlos Medina i...@simply-networks.de wrote: Marcus Gnaß schrieb: Paul M Foster wrote: On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 11:02:37AM -0500, tedd wrote: As a side note, I think students should learn a language like C before learning something like Perl, Python or PHP. Having to deal with defining/declaring variables and their storage methods before use I think makes for more conscientious programmers. And pointers are an education all on their own. ;-} For teaching programming or OOP I would choose a language which concentrates on the topic. The hard stuff, which you have to deal with in C for example, can be learned later. I'm glad that I started programming in Pascal, not in C. If today I had to learn programming as such I would definitively opt for Python! My choice for learning OOP would be Python or even better Java cause you don't have the choice to do it in a procedural way. Marcus Hi @ all, but this is a php list... Regards Carlos Yes, it is, but the original question was about OOP and not specifically about PHP. It seems fair enough to me for someone to ask the question on this list since PHP was one of the languages being considered, even if consensus among the list seems to be that PHP would not be the best choice for teaching a course on OOP. Andrew -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP OOP
At 9:36 AM -0500 2/10/09, Andrew Ballard wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Carlos Medina i...@simply-networks.de wrote: Marcus Gnaß schrieb: Hi @ all, but this is a php list... Regards Carlos Yes, it is, but the original question was about OOP and not specifically about PHP. It seems fair enough to me for someone to ask the question on this list since PHP was one of the languages being considered, even if consensus among the list seems to be that PHP would not be the best choice for teaching a course on OOP. Andrew Andrew: Absolutely, you're not out of line at all. TI have found in my life that there will always be those who have a better idea, if you know what I mean. The point of the post (me being the OP) was to sample other people's opinion as to what would be best language to use to teach OOP, and that included considering php, thus the relevancy. The answer turns out to be Java (1) or C++ (2) depending upon the environment and availability of resources. Why people have to get on and comment that this is a php list is beyond me, duh. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP OOP
A loosely typed language like PHP might not be the best choice for teaching OOP, because even though PHP makes it easier with loose types, you should know about them and how they are stored etc. PHP is a great language but maybe not strict enough for students to understand all the errors that can occur. I would recommend encouraging learning PHP though as it has become both an important and fast and easy language to program in. For that it's also amazingly fast in execution. Cheers, Tim Tim-Hinnerk Heuer http://www.ihostnz.com Garry Shandling - I'm dating a woman now who, evidently, is unaware of it. 2009/2/11 tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com At 9:36 AM -0500 2/10/09, Andrew Ballard wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Carlos Medina i...@simply-networks.de wrote: Marcus Gnaß schrieb: Hi @ all, but this is a php list... Regards Carlos Yes, it is, but the original question was about OOP and not specifically about PHP. It seems fair enough to me for someone to ask the question on this list since PHP was one of the languages being considered, even if consensus among the list seems to be that PHP would not be the best choice for teaching a course on OOP. Andrew Andrew: Absolutely, you're not out of line at all. TI have found in my life that there will always be those who have a better idea, if you know what I mean. The point of the post (me being the OP) was to sample other people's opinion as to what would be best language to use to teach OOP, and that included considering php, thus the relevancy. The answer turns out to be Java (1) or C++ (2) depending upon the environment and availability of resources. Why people have to get on and comment that this is a php list is beyond me, duh. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] PHP OOP
Hi gang: At the college where I teach, they are considering teaching OOP, but they don't want to settle on a specific language. My thoughts are it's difficult to teach OOP without a language -- while the general concepts of OOP are interesting, people need to see how concepts are applied to understand how they work -- thus I think a specific language is required I lean toward C++ because I wrote in it for a few years AND C++ appears to be the most common, widespread, and popular OOP language. However, while I don't know PHP OOP, I am open to considering it because of the proliferation of web based applications. My personal opinion is that's where all programming is headed anyway, but that's just my opinion. With that said, what's the differences and advantages/disadvantages between C++ and PHP OOP? Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP OOP
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 8:02 AM, tedd t...@sperling.com wrote: Hi gang: At the college where I teach, they are considering teaching OOP, but they don't want to settle on a specific language. My thoughts are it's difficult to teach OOP without a language -- while the general concepts of OOP are interesting, people need to see how concepts are applied to understand how they work -- thus I think a specific language is required I lean toward C++ because I wrote in it for a few years AND C++ appears to be the most common, widespread, and popular OOP language. However, while I don't know PHP OOP, I am open to considering it because of the proliferation of web based applications. My personal opinion is that's where all programming is headed anyway, but that's just my opinion. With that said, what's the differences and advantages/disadvantages between C++ and PHP OOP? Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php In my personal opinion, C++ would probably be the best language to teach OOP concepts in. That or Python. -- Kyle Terry | www.kyleterry.com Help kick start VOOM (Very Open Object Model) for a library of PHP classes. http://www.voom.me | IRC EFNet #voom -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP OOP
Hi gang: At the college where I teach, they are considering teaching OOP, but they don't want to settle on a specific language. My thoughts are it's difficult to teach OOP without a language -- while the general concepts of OOP are interesting, people need to see how concepts are applied to understand how they work -- thus I think a specific language is required I lean toward C++ because I wrote in it for a few years AND C++ appears to be the most common, widespread, and popular OOP language. However, while I don't know PHP OOP, I am open to considering it because of the proliferation of web based applications. My personal opinion is that's where all programming is headed anyway, but that's just my opinion. With that said, what's the differences and advantages/disadvantages between C++ and PHP OOP? Cheers, tedd IMHO I think that you are right about using a specific language and you should strongly insist on that. Someone needs to see how objects are taking flesh and bones in real life and not just theoretically. You could consider Java as well before taking your final decision. -- Thodoris -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP OOP
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Thodoris t...@kinetix.gr wrote: Hi gang: At the college where I teach, they are considering teaching OOP, but they don't want to settle on a specific language. My thoughts are it's difficult to teach OOP without a language -- while the general concepts of OOP are interesting, people need to see how concepts are applied to understand how they work -- thus I think a specific language is required I lean toward C++ because I wrote in it for a few years AND C++ appears to be the most common, widespread, and popular OOP language. However, while I don't know PHP OOP, I am open to considering it because of the proliferation of web based applications. My personal opinion is that's where all programming is headed anyway, but that's just my opinion. With that said, what's the differences and advantages/disadvantages between C++ and PHP OOP? Cheers, tedd IMHO I think that you are right about using a specific language and you should strongly insist on that. Someone needs to see how objects are taking flesh and bones in real life and not just theoretically. You could consider Java as well before taking your final decision. -- Thodoris -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php Especially since PHP is trying to be Java. :) -- http://www.voom.me | EFnet: #voom -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP OOP
Eric Butera wrote: On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Thodoris t...@kinetix.gr wrote: Hi gang: At the college where I teach, they are considering teaching OOP, but they don't want to settle on a specific language. My thoughts are it's difficult to teach OOP without a language -- while the general concepts of OOP are interesting, people need to see how concepts are applied to understand how they work -- thus I think a specific language is required I lean toward C++ because I wrote in it for a few years AND C++ appears to be the most common, widespread, and popular OOP language. However, while I don't know PHP OOP, I am open to considering it because of the proliferation of web based applications. My personal opinion is that's where all programming is headed anyway, but that's just my opinion. With that said, what's the differences and advantages/disadvantages between C++ and PHP OOP? Cheers, tedd IMHO I think that you are right about using a specific language and you should strongly insist on that. Someone needs to see how objects are taking flesh and bones in real life and not just theoretically. You could consider Java as well before taking your final decision. -- Thodoris -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php Especially since PHP is trying to be Java. :) take a wild guess as to what I'm going to day.. java is v good language to learn OO specific principals and I'd strongly recommend it - while I may get more done with php oo practically, I learn and undertand a lot more with java. regards! -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP OOP
tedd wrote: I lean toward C++ because I wrote in it for a few years AND C++ appears to be the most common, widespread, and popular OOP language. I would agree, although I suspect Java is also a good candidate. However, while I don't know PHP OOP, I am open to considering it because of the proliferation of web based applications. Don't - compile-time type checking is essential to OOP. My personal opinion is that's where all programming is headed anyway, but that's just my opinion. Which you're certainly entitled to - I just can't quite see the Linux kernel or bind or an audio driver written as a web-app :-) /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (1.6°C) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP OOP
tedd wrote: I lean toward C++ because I wrote in it for a few years AND C++ appears to be the most common, widespread, and popular OOP language. I would agree, although I suspect Java is also a good candidate. However, while I don't know PHP OOP, I am open to considering it because of the proliferation of web based applications. Don't - compile-time type checking is essential to OOP. My personal opinion is that's where all programming is headed anyway, but that's just my opinion. Which you're certainly entitled to - I just can't quite see the Linux kernel or bind or an audio driver written as a web-app or in php :-) /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (1.6°C) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP OOP
2009/2/9 tedd t...@sperling.com: Hi gang: At the college where I teach, they are considering teaching OOP, but they don't want to settle on a specific language. My thoughts are it's difficult to teach OOP without a language -- while the general concepts of OOP are interesting, people need to see how concepts are applied to understand how they work -- thus I think a specific language is required I lean toward C++ because I wrote in it for a few years AND C++ appears to be the most common, widespread, and popular OOP language. However, while I don't know PHP OOP, I am open to considering it because of the proliferation of web based applications. My personal opinion is that's where all programming is headed anyway, but that's just my opinion. With that said, what's the differences and advantages/disadvantages between C++ and PHP OOP? C++ is a good option, but if OOP is the focus it might be better to use Java or similar where you don't need to worry so much about memory management. If you're dealing with people who know C then C++ will work well, otherwise not. The worst thing you can do is skip over the details of C++ development because you want to focus on OOP. You'll end up with a bunch of people who *think* they can code in C++ but really haven't got a clue. Personally I'd have preferred my university to use Smalltalk, but none of the professors knew it so I had to teach myself. It's the original and IMHO still the best implementation of OOP concepts around. -Stuart -- http://stut.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP OOP
On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 11:02:37AM -0500, tedd wrote: Hi gang: At the college where I teach, they are considering teaching OOP, but they don't want to settle on a specific language. My thoughts are it's difficult to teach OOP without a language -- while the general concepts of OOP are interesting, people need to see how concepts are applied to understand how they work -- thus I think a specific language is required I lean toward C++ because I wrote in it for a few years AND C++ appears to be the most common, widespread, and popular OOP language. However, while I don't know PHP OOP, I am open to considering it because of the proliferation of web based applications. My personal opinion is that's where all programming is headed anyway, but that's just my opinion. With that said, what's the differences and advantages/disadvantages between C++ and PHP OOP? I don't know Java, but I suspect it's a more purely OO language than C++. I *have* coded in C++, and the OO aspects of C++ are like a bolt-on on the C language. There are some odd aspects of C++ because of its history as originally a preprocessor hack on top of C. PHP is *not* a good example for OO. There are a lot of OO principles it doesn't follow. I would have suggested Smalltalk, the original OO language, except that no one uses it any more, and other languages don't necessarily fully implement OO as done in Smalltalk. You're right about using a language which implements OO in a realistic way for today's programmers. I also agree you need a language in which to teach OO. Otherwise, this is all just theory, and won't stick with the students. Imagine learning algebra but never solving equations in the class. You'd forget the whole thing ten minutes after the class was over. In fact, it seems a little backward to teach OO programming as a lone subject. I would instead opt for teaching a language first, and OO as a secondary part of that course. Learning C++ will go a long way in assisting the student to learn Java, or vice versa. My experience programming C has been invaluable in coding under PHP. As a side note, I think students should learn a language like C before learning something like Perl, Python or PHP. Having to deal with defining/declaring variables and their storage methods before use I think makes for more conscientious programmers. And pointers are an education all on their own. ;-} Paul -- Paul M. Foster -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP OOP
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Stuart stut...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/2/9 tedd t...@sperling.com: Hi gang: At the college where I teach, they are considering teaching OOP, but they don't want to settle on a specific language. My thoughts are it's difficult to teach OOP without a language -- while the general concepts of OOP are interesting, people need to see how concepts are applied to understand how they work -- thus I think a specific language is required I lean toward C++ because I wrote in it for a few years AND C++ appears to be the most common, widespread, and popular OOP language. However, while I don't know PHP OOP, I am open to considering it because of the proliferation of web based applications. My personal opinion is that's where all programming is headed anyway, but that's just my opinion. With that said, what's the differences and advantages/disadvantages between C++ and PHP OOP? C++ is a good option, but if OOP is the focus it might be better to use Java or similar where you don't need to worry so much about memory management. If you're dealing with people who know C then C++ will work well, otherwise not. The worst thing you can do is skip over the details of C++ development because you want to focus on OOP. You'll end up with a bunch of people who *think* they can code in C++ but really haven't got a clue. Personally I'd have preferred my university to use Smalltalk, but none of the professors knew it so I had to teach myself. It's the original and IMHO still the best implementation of OOP concepts around. -Stuart -- http://stut.net/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php Actually I made up the term object-oriented, and I can tell you I did not have C++ in mind. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2950949730059754521 http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Alan_Kay -- http://www.voom.me | EFnet: #voom -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP OOP
Paul M Foster wrote: PHP is *not* a good example for OO. There are a lot of OO principles it doesn't follow. I would have suggested Smalltalk, the original OO language, except that no one uses it any more, and other languages don't necessarily fully implement OO as done in Smalltalk. You're right about using a language which implements OO in a realistic way for today's programmers. Depends exactly what Tedds class is meant to be - whether it's about programming or computer science. For the latter, Eiffel is also a good OO language. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (1.9°C) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP OOP
2009/2/9 tedd t...@sperling.com: Hi gang: At the college where I teach, they are considering teaching OOP, but they don't want to settle on a specific language. I guess that is not a good idea, you should really combine it with a language, as some students will be curious enough to play around with it at home and so they'll also learn more. My thoughts are it's difficult to teach OOP without a language -- while the general concepts of OOP are interesting, people need to see how concepts are applied to understand how they work -- thus I think a specific language is required I lean toward C++ because I wrote in it for a few years AND C++ appears to be the most common, widespread, and popular OOP language. Yes C++ is not bad for this, but it has also got some flaws. However, while I don't know PHP OOP, I am open to considering it because of the proliferation of web based applications. My personal opinion is that's where all programming is headed anyway, but that's just my opinion. With that said, what's the differences and advantages/disadvantages between C++ and PHP OOP? Cheers, tedd Both of them have got the disadvantage that they also support procedural programming. Some of your students will for sure not understand OOP immediately and they'll avoid using it this way. I guess Java is really a good idea, there are some great Editors around for it (Netbeans...) It's completely OOP and there are many great tutorials for it in the net, so a willing student can easily go on after the class is over. I really didn't like Java some months ago, but I have to learn it at school myself now and I think it's great to learn. It avoids most of the errors that come from C++'s pointers etc. so you can really focus on teaching OOP and not why you must always reserve memory etc. Later on it'll sure be easy to switch to other languages (though I can't really tell this because I started with C++ when I was ten years old and discovered PHP later and get to know Java know) So: My vote goes to Java, or if you want a decision between C++ and PHP it's C++. -- Currently developing a browsergame... http://www.p-game.de Trade - Expand - Fight Follow me at twitter! http://twitter.com/moortier -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP OOP
On Monday 09 February 2009 10:02:37 am tedd wrote: Hi gang: At the college where I teach, they are considering teaching OOP, but they don't want to settle on a specific language. My thoughts are it's difficult to teach OOP without a language -- while the general concepts of OOP are interesting, people need to see how concepts are applied to understand how they work -- thus I think a specific language is required I lean toward C++ because I wrote in it for a few years AND C++ appears to be the most common, widespread, and popular OOP language. However, while I don't know PHP OOP, I am open to considering it because of the proliferation of web based applications. My personal opinion is that's where all programming is headed anyway, but that's just my opinion. With that said, what's the differences and advantages/disadvantages between C++ and PHP OOP? Cheers, tedd I definitely agree that teaching OOP without a language to write it in is a very stupid idea. However, part of the problem is that there is in practice no one version of OOP. Java is probably the best example of academically pure classic OOP (that is, class-based). That can be good for teaching, but it can also suck for developing because you have to do things in an academically formal way. Javascript, on the other hand, is a prototype-based language. Technically that's also OOP, or can be, but the code is entirely different conceptually when functions, methods, objects, and classes are all the same thing. :-) PHP's OOP is very closely modeled on Java's, but with some interesting additions. PHP 5.3 adds a few more and 5.4/6.0 is likely to add traits, which are another animal entirely. PHP is also a hybrid language and, by nature of being a shared-nothing scripting language OOP is often the wrong choice because of the setup and initialization costs. C++ has a little of each, albeit in a frequently convoluted way. It also has about 30 more types of access control than any other language I know, for better or worse. LISP is its own creature, closer to Javascript than to anything else I just mentioned. (Or arguably Javascript is closer to LISP.) Personally, I recommend teaching programming first in C++. Force them to do the hard stuff so they appreciate what the runtime is doing for them in higher level languages. It also means you can teach procedural and OOP in the same syntax. Then once they've gotten a few bruises in C++, expose them to Java, Javascript, PHP, etc. to let them see what higher level work actually gets done in these days. -- Larry Garfield la...@garfieldtech.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] OOP - Calling methods from classes that are inheriting?
Hi, How do I call methods from classes that are inherited? I want to add a mysql_num_rows() function to a second class that is an addon to a MySQL query in the first class. The first class will be used in several different classes for different parts of the site so I don't want to directly add the num_rows to the first class method as the query won't just be used for this function. Hope I have made myself as clear as possible! Cheers!
[PHP] OOP in PHP
Dear my friends,
This is the first time for me to use OOP concept of PHP. I wrote still a very
simple codes but it doesn't work as my manual book taught. the book titled
MySQL/PHP Database Application by Jay Greenspan say these lines should work
but in fact it don't work as expected.
Here is my code:
===
//pelangganbaru.php
?php
require koneksi.php;
$sqlnya=select country from countries;
$klas=new koneksi($sqlnya);
?
===
//koneksi.php
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN
HTML
HEAD
META name=generator content=HTML Tidy for Linux/x86 (vers 31 October
2006), see www.w3.org
/HEAD
BODY
?php
class koneksi{
$namakompie=127.0.0.1;
$un=root;
$pw=mysqlpw;
$sqlnya;
$kueri;
function koneksi($sqlnya){
echo superclass koneksi dipanggilbr;
$konek=mysql_connect($namakompie,$un,$pw);
if ($konek){
echo koneksi berhasil (connection succeeded)br;
$mybd=mysql_select_db(survey,$konek);
$kueri=mysql_query($sqlnya,$konek);
}else{
echo I can't talk to the serverbr;
exit();
}
return $kueri;
}
}
?
/BODY
/HTML
=
Theoritically if Class koneksi is being initialized than it prints koneksi
berhasil (connection succeeded) but it doesn't.
Please tell me what is my mistake.
Thank you very much in advance.
--
Patrik Hasibuan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Junior Programmer
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP in PHP
what sort of error are you encountering ?
-nathan
On 8/15/07, Patrik Hasibuan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear my friends,
This is the first time for me to use OOP concept of PHP. I wrote still a
very simple codes but it doesn't work as my manual book taught. the book
titled MySQL/PHP Database Application by Jay Greenspan say these lines
should work but in fact it don't work as expected.
Here is my code:
===
//pelangganbaru.php
?php
require koneksi.php;
$sqlnya=select country from countries;
$klas=new koneksi($sqlnya);
?
===
//koneksi.php
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN
HTML
HEAD
META name=generator content=HTML Tidy for Linux/x86 (vers 31 October
2006), see www.w3.org
/HEAD
BODY
?php
class koneksi{
$namakompie=127.0.0.1;
$un=root;
$pw=mysqlpw;
$sqlnya;
$kueri;
function koneksi($sqlnya){
echo superclass koneksi dipanggilbr;
$konek=mysql_connect($namakompie,$un,$pw);
if ($konek){
echo koneksi berhasil (connection succeeded)br;
$mybd=mysql_select_db(survey,$konek);
$kueri=mysql_query($sqlnya,$konek);
}else{
echo I can't talk to the serverbr;
exit();
}
return $kueri;
}
}
?
/BODY
/HTML
=
Theoritically if Class koneksi is being initialized than it prints
koneksi berhasil (connection succeeded) but it doesn't.
Please tell me what is my mistake.
Thank you very much in advance.
--
Patrik Hasibuan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Junior Programmer
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP in PHP
Theoritically if Class koneksi is being initialized than it prints koneksi berhasil (connection succeeded) but it doesn't. What does it? Just nothing? No warnings at all? Possibly disabled? so far rob -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP in PHP
A few missing pieces in your code. Take a look below within your class. I
corrected it.
try also using include_once instead of require
and make sure that your error level and reporting are turned on so you can see
what is happening.
Patrik Hasibuan wrote:
Dear my friends,
This is the first time for me to use OOP concept of PHP. I wrote still a very simple
codes but it doesn't work as my manual book taught. the book titled MySQL/PHP
Database Application by Jay Greenspan say these lines should work but in fact it
don't work as expected.
Here is my code:
===
//pelangganbaru.php
?php
require koneksi.php;
$sqlnya=select country from countries;
$klas=new koneksi($sqlnya);
?
===
//koneksi.php
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN
HTML
HEAD
META name=generator content=HTML Tidy for Linux/x86 (vers 31 October 2006), see
www.w3.org
/HEAD
BODY
?php
class koneksi{
$namakompie=127.0.0.1;
var $namakompie='127.0.0.1';
$un=root;
var $un='root';
$pw=mysqlpw;
var $pw='mysqlpw';
$sqlnya;
var $sqlnya;
$kueri;
var $kueri;
function koneksi($sqlnya){
echo superclass koneksi dipanggilbr;
$konek=mysql_connect($namakompie,$un,$pw);
$konek=mysql_connect($this-namakompie, $this-un, $this-pw);
if ($konek){
echo koneksi berhasil (connection succeeded)br;
$mybd=mysql_select_db(survey,$konek);
$kueri=mysql_query($sqlnya,$konek);
}else{
echo I can't talk to the serverbr;
exit();
}
return $kueri;
}
}
?
/BODY
/HTML
=
Theoritically if Class koneksi is being initialized than it prints koneksi
berhasil (connection succeeded) but it doesn't.
Please tell me what is my mistake.
Thank you very much in advance.
--
Jim Lucas
Some men are born to greatness, some achieve greatness,
and some have greatness thrust upon them.
Twelfth Night, Act II, Scene V
by William Shakespeare
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP in PHP
Dear Jim,
You've solved my problem, Jim. Thank you very much.
Now, my code give the output as my expectation:
superclass koneksi dipanggil
koneksi berhasil
negara-
.
But come another problem, namely: the $negara is empty. I tried to read the
documentation on
http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.types.object.php#language.types.object.casting
but I didn't manage to find the answer.
I suspect the return $kueri could be only for 'returning' a variable of
boolean or string or number but not 'returning' an array (such as the result of
mysql_query(select country from countries,$koneksi) ) or an object (such as
the result of mysql_connect() ).
So how should I get the content of mysql_query() so I can get the value with
mysql_fetch_row() or inherit array?
Is is also possible to re-use the result of mysql_connect() or inherit the
$konek?
Here is my current code:
//pelangganbaru.php
?php
include_once koneksi.php;
$sqlnya=select country from countries;
$klas=new koneksi($sqlnya);
$brs=mysql_fetch_row($klas-kueri);
list($negara)=$brs;
echo option value=\$negara\$negara/option;
?
=
//koneksi.php
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN
HTML
HEAD
META name=generator content=HTML Tidy for Linux/x86 (vers 31 October
2006), see www.w3.org
/HEAD
BODY
?php
class koneksi{
var $namakompie=127.0.0.1;
var $un=root;
var $pw=mysuccess;
var $sqlnya;
var $kueri;
function koneksi($sqlnya){
echo superclass koneksi dipanggilbr;
$konek=mysql_connect($this-namakompie,$this-un,$this-pw);
if ($konek){
echo koneksi berhasilbr;
$mybd=mysql_select_db(survey,$konek);
$kueri=mysql_query($sqlnya,$konek);
}else{
echo I can't talk to the serverbr;
exit();
}
return $kueri;
}
}
?
/BODY
/HTML
Please keep telling me.
Thank you very much in advance.
ps: Thanks a lot too to Nathan Nobe and Robert Gegen for their responds...
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:00:56 -0700
Jim Lucas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A few missing pieces in your code. Take a look below within your class. I
corrected it.
try also using include_once instead of require
and make sure that your error level and reporting are turned on so you can
see what is happening.
Patrik Hasibuan wrote:
Dear my friends,
This is the first time for me to use OOP concept of PHP. I wrote still a
very simple codes but it doesn't work as my manual book taught. the book
titled MySQL/PHP Database Application by Jay Greenspan say these lines
should work but in fact it don't work as expected.
Here is my code:
===
//pelangganbaru.php
?php
require koneksi.php;
$sqlnya=select country from countries;
$klas=new koneksi($sqlnya);
?
===
//koneksi.php
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN
HTML
HEAD
META name=generator content=HTML Tidy for Linux/x86 (vers 31 October
2006), see www.w3.org
/HEAD
BODY
?php
class koneksi{
$namakompie=127.0.0.1;
var $namakompie='127.0.0.1';
$un=root;
var $un='root';
$pw=mysqlpw;
var $pw='mysqlpw';
$sqlnya;
var $sqlnya;
$kueri;
var $kueri;
function koneksi($sqlnya){
echo superclass koneksi dipanggilbr;
$konek=mysql_connect($namakompie,$un,$pw);
$konek=mysql_connect($this-namakompie, $this-un, $this-pw);
if ($konek){
echo koneksi berhasil (connection succeeded)br;
$mybd=mysql_select_db(survey,$konek);
$kueri=mysql_query($sqlnya,$konek);
}else{
echo I can't talk to the serverbr;
exit();
}
return $kueri;
}
}
?
/BODY
/HTML
=
Theoritically if Class koneksi is being initialized than it prints
koneksi berhasil (connection succeeded) but it doesn't.
Please tell me what is my mistake.
Thank you very much in advance.
--
Jim Lucas
Some men are born to greatness, some achieve greatness,
and some have greatness thrust upon them.
Twelfth Night, Act II, Scene V
by William Shakespeare
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
--
Patrik Hasibuan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Junior Programmer
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP in PHP
Patrik Hasibuan wrote:
Dear Jim,
You've solved my problem, Jim. Thank you very much.
Now, my code give the output as my expectation:
superclass koneksi dipanggil
koneksi berhasil
negara-
.
But come another problem, namely: the $negara is empty. I tried to read the documentation on
http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.types.object.php#language.types.object.casting
but I didn't manage to find the answer.
I suspect the return $kueri could be only for 'returning' a variable of boolean or
string or number but not 'returning' an array (such as the result of mysql_query(select
country from countries,$koneksi) ) or an object (such as the result of mysql_connect() ).
So how should I get the content of mysql_query() so I can get the value with
mysql_fetch_row() or inherit array?
Is is also possible to re-use the result of mysql_connect() or inherit the
$konek?
Here is my current code:
//pelangganbaru.php
?php
include_once koneksi.php;
$sqlnya=select country from countries;
$klas=new koneksi($sqlnya);
Try this instead
if ( mysql_num_rows($klas) 0 ) {
while( list($negara) = mysql_fetch_row($klas) ) {
echo option value=\$negara\$negara/option;
}
} else {
echo 'No results found';
}
And within your class change your mysql_query line to this
$kueri=mysql_query($sqlnya,$konek) or die('MYSQL QUERY ERROR ['.mysql_errno($konek).']
'.mysql_error($konek));
This will make the system fail and kill the script if the query fails for some
reason.
The die() part will then print the error number and what mysql thinks is wrong.
This isn't the best way to use error reporting in a production system, but since you are new at
this, this is a simple way to do error reporting.
It is always a good idea to use is_resource($resource_handle_from_mysql) as a test to see if you did
in fact get a valid resource id from the mysql_connect() call.
$brs=mysql_fetch_row($klas-kueri);
list($negara)=$brs;
echo option value=\$negara\$negara/option;
?
=
//koneksi.php
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN
HTML
HEAD
META name=generator content=HTML Tidy for Linux/x86 (vers 31 October 2006), see
www.w3.org
/HEAD
BODY
?php
class koneksi{
var $namakompie=127.0.0.1;
var $un=root;
var $pw=mysuccess;
var $sqlnya;
var $kueri;
function koneksi($sqlnya){
echo superclass koneksi dipanggilbr;
$konek=mysql_connect($this-namakompie,$this-un,$this-pw);
if ($konek){
echo koneksi berhasilbr;
$mybd=mysql_select_db(survey,$konek);
$kueri=mysql_query($sqlnya,$konek);
}else{
echo I can't talk to the serverbr;
exit();
}
return $kueri;
}
}
?
/BODY
/HTML
Please keep telling me.
Thank you very much in advance.
ps: Thanks a lot too to Nathan Nobe and Robert Gegen for their responds...
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:00:56 -0700
Jim Lucas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A few missing pieces in your code. Take a look below within your class. I
corrected it.
try also using include_once instead of require
and make sure that your error level and reporting are turned on so you can see
what is happening.
Patrik Hasibuan wrote:
Dear my friends,
This is the first time for me to use OOP concept of PHP. I wrote still a very simple
codes but it doesn't work as my manual book taught. the book titled MySQL/PHP
Database Application by Jay Greenspan say these lines should work but in fact it
don't work as expected.
Here is my code:
===
//pelangganbaru.php
?php
require koneksi.php;
$sqlnya=select country from countries;
$klas=new koneksi($sqlnya);
?
===
//koneksi.php
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN
HTML
HEAD
META name=generator content=HTML Tidy for Linux/x86 (vers 31 October 2006), see
www.w3.org
/HEAD
BODY
?php
class koneksi{
$namakompie=127.0.0.1;
var $namakompie='127.0.0.1';
$un=root;
var $un='root';
$pw=mysqlpw;
var $pw='mysqlpw';
$sqlnya;
var $sqlnya;
$kueri;
var $kueri;
function koneksi($sqlnya){
echo superclass koneksi dipanggilbr;
$konek=mysql_connect($namakompie,$un,$pw);
$konek=mysql_connect($this-namakompie, $this-un, $this-pw);
if ($konek){
echo koneksi berhasil (connection succeeded)br;
$mybd=mysql_select_db(survey,$konek);
$kueri=mysql_query($sqlnya,$konek);
}else{
echo I can't talk to the serverbr;
exit();
}
return $kueri;
}
}
?
/BODY
/HTML
=
Theoritically if Class koneksi is being initialized than it prints koneksi
berhasil (connection succeeded) but it doesn't.
Please tell me what is my mistake.
Thank you very much in advance.
--
Jim Lucas
Some men are born to greatness, some achieve greatness,
and some have greatness thrust upon them.
Twelfth Night, Act II, Scene V
by William Shakespeare
--
PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
To unsubscribe, visit:
Re: [PHP] OOP in PHP
Dear Jim,
thanks for your help. I've modified my codes as you adviced.
But than the output is:
superclass koneksi dipanggil
koneksi berhasil
No results found
The column 'country' of table 'countries' already really contents complete all
contry name from all over the earth. How come the query of select country from
countries results empty value. So I believe the problem is still on the my OOP
programming because if I do the query only with the procedural concept the
$kueri will content the complete record of the column country.
Please keep telling what is my mistake on my OOP PHP5 codes.
-
//pelangganbaru.php
?php
include_once koneksi.php;
$sqlnya=select * from countries;
$klas=new koneksi($sqlnya);
if ( mysql_num_rows($klas) 0 ) {
while( list($negara) = mysql_fetch_row($klas) ) {
echo negara-$negarabr;
}
} else {
echo 'No results found';
}
?
-
//koneksi.php
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN
HTML
HEAD
META name=generator content=HTML Tidy for Linux/x86 (vers 31 October
2006), see www.w3.org
/HEAD
BODY
?php
class koneksi{
var $namakompie=127.0.0.1;
var $un=root;
var $pw=mysuccess;
var $sqlnya;
var $kueri;
function koneksi($sqlnya){
echo superclass koneksi dipanggilbr;
$konek=mysql_connect($this-namakompie,$this-un,$this-pw);
if ($konek){
echo koneksi berhasilbr;
$mybd=mysql_select_db(survey,$konek);
//$kueri=mysql_query($sqlnya,$konek);
$kueri=mysql_query($sqlnya,$konek) or die('MYSQL QUERY ERROR
['.mysql_errno($konek).'] '.mysql_error($konek));
}else{
echo I can't talk to the serverbr;
exit();
}
return $kueri;
}
}
?
/BODY
/HTML
===
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:13:18 -0700
Jim Lucas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Patrik Hasibuan wrote:
Dear Jim,
You've solved my problem, Jim. Thank you very much.
Now, my code give the output as my expectation:
superclass koneksi dipanggil
koneksi berhasil
negara-
.
But come another problem, namely: the $negara is empty. I tried to read the
documentation on
http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.types.object.php#language.types.object.casting
but I didn't manage to find the answer.
I suspect the return $kueri could be only for 'returning' a variable of
boolean or string or number but not 'returning' an array (such as the
result of mysql_query(select country from countries,$koneksi) ) or an
object (such as the result of mysql_connect() ).
So how should I get the content of mysql_query() so I can get the value
with mysql_fetch_row() or inherit array?
Is is also possible to re-use the result of mysql_connect() or inherit
the $konek?
Here is my current code:
//pelangganbaru.php
?php
include_once koneksi.php;
$sqlnya=select country from countries;
$klas=new koneksi($sqlnya);
Try this instead
if ( mysql_num_rows($klas) 0 ) {
while( list($negara) = mysql_fetch_row($klas) ) {
echo option value=\$negara\$negara/option;
}
} else {
echo 'No results found';
}
And within your class change your mysql_query line to this
$kueri=mysql_query($sqlnya,$konek) or die('MYSQL QUERY ERROR
['.mysql_errno($konek).']
'.mysql_error($konek));
This will make the system fail and kill the script if the query fails for
some reason.
The die() part will then print the error number and what mysql thinks is
wrong.
This isn't the best way to use error reporting in a production system, but
since you are new at
this, this is a simple way to do error reporting.
It is always a good idea to use is_resource($resource_handle_from_mysql) as a
test to see if you did
in fact get a valid resource id from the mysql_connect() call.
$brs=mysql_fetch_row($klas-kueri);
list($negara)=$brs;
echo option value=\$negara\$negara/option;
?
=
//koneksi.php
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN
HTML
HEAD
META name=generator content=HTML Tidy for Linux/x86 (vers 31 October
2006), see www.w3.org
/HEAD
BODY
?php
class koneksi{
var $namakompie=127.0.0.1;
var $un=root;
var $pw=mysuccess;
var $sqlnya;
var $kueri;
function koneksi($sqlnya){
echo superclass koneksi dipanggilbr;
$konek=mysql_connect($this-namakompie,$this-un,$this-pw);
if ($konek){
echo koneksi berhasilbr;
$mybd=mysql_select_db(survey,$konek);
$kueri=mysql_query($sqlnya,$konek);
}else{
echo I can't talk to the serverbr;
exit();
}
return $kueri;
}
}
?
/BODY
/HTML
Please keep telling me.
Thank you very much in advance.
ps: Thanks a lot too to Nathan Nobe and Robert Gegen for their responds...
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:00:56 -0700
Jim Lucas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A few missing pieces in your code.
Re: [PHP] OOP in PHP
Patrik Hasibuan wrote:
Dear Jim,
thanks for your help. I've modified my codes as you adviced.
But than the output is:
superclass koneksi dipanggil
koneksi berhasil
No results found
The column 'country' of table 'countries' already really contents complete all contry name from all over the
earth. How come the query of select country from countries results empty value. So I believe the
problem is still on the my OOP programming because if I do the query only with the procedural
concept the $kueri will content the complete record of the column country.
Please keep telling what is my mistake on my OOP PHP5 codes.
-
//pelangganbaru.php
?php
include_once koneksi.php;
$sqlnya=select * from countries;
ok, don't know why it took me this long to realize what the problem is.
The following line will return the object of a the class that you are initializing, not the result
set pointer.
So, what you need to do is this
Change this
function koneksi($sqlnya){
...
}
to this
function getkoneksi($sqlnya) {
...
}
Then this
$klas=new koneksi($sqlnya);
to this
$o = new koneksi();
$klas = $o-get_koneksi($sqlnya);
Now all should work.
$klas=new koneksi($sqlnya);
if ( mysql_num_rows($klas) 0 ) {
while( list($negara) = mysql_fetch_row($klas) ) {
echo negara-$negarabr;
}
} else {
echo 'No results found';
}
?
-
//koneksi.php
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN
HTML
HEAD
META name=generator content=HTML Tidy for Linux/x86 (vers 31 October 2006), see
www.w3.org
/HEAD
BODY
?php
class koneksi{
var $namakompie=127.0.0.1;
var $un=root;
var $pw=mysuccess;
var $sqlnya;
var $kueri;
function koneksi($sqlnya){
echo superclass koneksi dipanggilbr;
$konek=mysql_connect($this-namakompie,$this-un,$this-pw);
if ($konek){
echo koneksi berhasilbr;
$mybd=mysql_select_db(survey,$konek);
//$kueri=mysql_query($sqlnya,$konek);
$kueri=mysql_query($sqlnya,$konek) or die('MYSQL QUERY ERROR
['.mysql_errno($konek).'] '.mysql_error($konek));
}else{
echo I can't talk to the serverbr;
exit();
}
return $kueri;
}
}
?
/BODY
/HTML
===
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:13:18 -0700
Jim Lucas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Patrik Hasibuan wrote:
Dear Jim,
You've solved my problem, Jim. Thank you very much.
Now, my code give the output as my expectation:
superclass koneksi dipanggil
koneksi berhasil
negara-
.
But come another problem, namely: the $negara is empty. I tried to read the documentation on
http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.types.object.php#language.types.object.casting
but I didn't manage to find the answer.
I suspect the return $kueri could be only for 'returning' a variable of boolean or
string or number but not 'returning' an array (such as the result of mysql_query(select
country from countries,$koneksi) ) or an object (such as the result of mysql_connect() ).
So how should I get the content of mysql_query() so I can get the value with
mysql_fetch_row() or inherit array?
Is is also possible to re-use the result of mysql_connect() or inherit the
$konek?
Here is my current code:
//pelangganbaru.php
?php
include_once koneksi.php;
$sqlnya=select country from countries;
$klas=new koneksi($sqlnya);
Try this instead
if ( mysql_num_rows($klas) 0 ) {
while( list($negara) = mysql_fetch_row($klas) ) {
echo option value=\$negara\$negara/option;
}
} else {
echo 'No results found';
}
And within your class change your mysql_query line to this
$kueri=mysql_query($sqlnya,$konek) or die('MYSQL QUERY ERROR ['.mysql_errno($konek).']
'.mysql_error($konek));
This will make the system fail and kill the script if the query fails for some
reason.
The die() part will then print the error number and what mysql thinks is wrong.
This isn't the best way to use error reporting in a production system, but since you are new at
this, this is a simple way to do error reporting.
It is always a good idea to use is_resource($resource_handle_from_mysql) as a test to see if you did
in fact get a valid resource id from the mysql_connect() call.
$brs=mysql_fetch_row($klas-kueri);
list($negara)=$brs;
echo option value=\$negara\$negara/option;
?
=
//koneksi.php
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN
HTML
HEAD
META name=generator content=HTML Tidy for Linux/x86 (vers 31 October 2006), see
www.w3.org
/HEAD
BODY
?php
class koneksi{
var $namakompie=127.0.0.1;
var $un=root;
var $pw=mysuccess;
var $sqlnya;
var $kueri;
function koneksi($sqlnya){
echo superclass koneksi dipanggilbr;
$konek=mysql_connect($this-namakompie,$this-un,$this-pw);
if ($konek){
echo koneksi berhasilbr;
$mybd=mysql_select_db(survey,$konek);
$kueri=mysql_query($sqlnya,$konek);
}else{
echo I can't
Re: [PHP] OOP in PHP
Jim Lucas wrote:
Patrik Hasibuan wrote:
Dear Jim,
thanks for your help. I've modified my codes as you adviced.
But than the output is:
superclass koneksi dipanggil
koneksi berhasil
No results found
The column 'country' of table 'countries' already really contents
complete all contry name from all over the earth. How come the query
of select country from countries results empty value. So I believe
the problem is still on the my OOP programming because if I do the
query only with the procedural concept the $kueri will content the
complete record of the column country.
Please keep telling what is my mistake on my OOP PHP5 codes.
-
//pelangganbaru.php
?php
include_once koneksi.php;
$sqlnya=select * from countries;
ok, don't know why it took me this long to realize what the problem is.
The following line will return the object of a the class that you are
initializing, not the result set pointer.
So, what you need to do is this
Change this
function koneksi($sqlnya){
...
}
to this
function getkoneksi($sqlnya) {
oops this should be get_koneksi($sqlnya)
...
}
Then this
$klas=new koneksi($sqlnya);
to this
$o = new koneksi();
$klas = $o-get_koneksi($sqlnya);
Now all should work.
--
Jim Lucas
Some men are born to greatness, some achieve greatness,
and some have greatness thrust upon them.
Twelfth Night, Act II, Scene V
by William Shakespeare
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Re: [PHP] OOP in PHP
Dear my friend, Jim Lucas.
Thank you very much for your help. You've solved my problem one more time.
I really appreciate your help.
===
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:17:02 -0700
Jim Lucas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Jim Lucas wrote:
Patrik Hasibuan wrote:
Dear Jim,
thanks for your help. I've modified my codes as you adviced.
But than the output is:
superclass koneksi dipanggil
koneksi berhasil
No results found
The column 'country' of table 'countries' already really contents
complete all contry name from all over the earth. How come the query
of select country from countries results empty value. So I believe
the problem is still on the my OOP programming because if I do the
query only with the procedural concept the $kueri will content the
complete record of the column country.
Please keep telling what is my mistake on my OOP PHP5 codes.
-
//pelangganbaru.php
?php
include_once koneksi.php;
$sqlnya=select * from countries;
ok, don't know why it took me this long to realize what the problem is.
The following line will return the object of a the class that you are
initializing, not the result set pointer.
So, what you need to do is this
Change this
function koneksi($sqlnya){
...
}
to this
function getkoneksi($sqlnya) {
oops this should be get_koneksi($sqlnya)
...
}
Then this
$klas=new koneksi($sqlnya);
to this
$o = new koneksi();
$klas = $o-get_koneksi($sqlnya);
Now all should work.
--
Jim Lucas
Some men are born to greatness, some achieve greatness,
and some have greatness thrust upon them.
Twelfth Night, Act II, Scene V
by William Shakespeare
--
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--
Patrik Hasibuan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Junior Programmer
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Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
Stut wrote: This is a question of design, not a question of whether to use OOP. For example, in several of the sites I maintain I have classes that inherit from a base class called Table. The base class provides a lot of the basic methods for working on a table (think ActiveRecord). It also has static methods for doing things like updates and deletes based on a where clause. The derived classes can override filter methods (AfterLoad and BeforeSave) to massage the data after it's loaded and before it's saved. They also add any methods needed for acting on that particular entity. I'm the first to admit that OOP is not always the best methadology to use - the 'best methadology for all situations' does not exist. However, the general feeling people will get towards OOP from this list seems to be 'OOP bad, anything else better'. OOP is great as long as you follow OOD principles and have a fair amount of common sense. It should not be used just because it's there, but it should also not be dismissed. In fact, in writing that I've just realised that OOP is not the key... OOD is. OOD can be applied (with no syntax or compiler assistance) in a functional system which will have great benefits, all of which I think most people are aware of but, for whatever reason, fail to adequately apply - which is where OOP can be useful since it enforces the structure and protection through the syntax (PHP4 sucked for this, PHP5 is better). When you actually think about it, OOP is not a methadology - it's a syntax. OOD is the methadology. Ramble... ramble... ramble... over! I know this is a fairly old thread, but I thought people might be interested in reading a write-up I've recently finished regarding my Table class and it's usage. I had been intending to write it for a while, but a request from Ed Lazor kicked me into actually doing it. Don't expect the quality to be too high - I'm more used to writing requirement/functional specs and user documentation than this type of thing. http://stut.net/articles/php_models.html All comments are welcome, both on the article and on the code itself. However, please keep on-list replies to the code! -Stut -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Solution: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
# [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 2006-10-15 13:59:39 -0700: As I cannot think of a class-based way to build my report, I think I'll use a customer class everywhere BUT in the report. Inside the report I'll just use one SQL statement instead of dozens of instances and hundreds of queries. I'll make a note inside the class that this and that method is not the only place the data is accessed, to also check inside the report. Sometimes, you've just gotta compromise to get the job done. Most of the time, OOP is a good idea, but in this instance I don't think it's the best choice. You're suffering because you're putting code that belongs in a separate layer (data source) in the domain logic layer. Don't blame classes for shortcomings in your design. http://www.martinfowler.com/articles/dblogic.html -- How many Vietnam vets does it take to screw in a light bulb? You don't know, man. You don't KNOW. Cause you weren't THERE. http://bash.org/?255991 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Solution: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
As I cannot think of a class-based way to build my report, I think I'll use a customer class everywhere BUT in the report. Inside the report I'll just use one SQL statement instead of dozens of instances and hundreds of queries. I'll make a note inside the class that this and that method is not the only place the data is accessed, to also check inside the report. Sometimes, you've just gotta compromise to get the job done. Most of the time, OOP is a good idea, but in this instance I don't think it's the best choice. It's less elegant but more pragmatic. Our project is medium-sized (only about 10K lines) and this will work just fine. (It makes me wonder if enterprise-class OO projects had to make the same decisions.) Thanks to everyone for your input. I need to unsubscribe from the list, so if you have any input, please CC: Chris (AT) deVidal (DOT) tv (my real email address). You might get an automatic reply, click the link. CD Think you're a good person? Yeah, right! ;-) Prove it and get ten thousand dollars: TenThousandDollarOffer.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
Stut [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Tony Marston wrote: Stut [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] My general approach to designing a system is data-centric. I tend to start by defining the database schema since getting that clear in my head tends to lead me to a decent design. What a coincidence! That's exactly my approach, but I've taken it one step further. I always start with a properly normalised database which I can then import into my daa dictionary application. From there I can press a button and create a class file for each database table, and I am ptting the finishing touhes to a procedure whereby I can press another button to generate the scripts which will maintain each table. This means I can get basic transactions up and running without writing a single line of code. All I have to do is edit these files to include business logic and any customisations. This level of automation is not possible with some people's OO implementations, so I can only conclude that their approach is not the optimal one. Youch!! Your implementation seems to be focused on development efficiency rather than runtime efficience. Precisely. That is why I said it was adminstrative web applications which typically have far fewer users than web sites. In all but rare research projects this is backwards for a web-based system. Wrong again. This is for administrative web applications, the type that were previously built as desktop applications. Their function is to get data into and out of a database i.e. CRUD applications), not to serve thousands of casual vuisitors. This is exactly the practice I am trying to discourage. It's a well-known fact that code generators are a poor substitute for real developers. It depends how you go about it. My code generators fulfil the basics, then the programmer's job is to customise it. For most projects I don't start out with OOP in mind, but my brain is used to building OOP-style systems so nearly everything I do ends up with a few classes. The difference with me is that I don't waste my time with trivial websites, I concentrate on administrative web applications. But even when I wrote the code for my own website at http://www.radicore.org I still used all my database classes as it was far easier than doing it the traditional old-fashioned way Trivial websites are where you can get away with using code generators. For anything non-trivial I would not feel comfortable with a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none-style of code. Now that I think of it I'm quite anal about the quality of my code, so I don't think I'd ever use a code generator - never have before. I have never liked any of the code generators I have seen created by others, but with my general-purpose framework I noticed that a lot of the code that I was generating by hand followed a familiar pattern. It was then a simple exercise to write a program to generate this same code on command. Be aware that I am not attempting to generate *all* the code that an application will need, just the basics to get it functioning. This takes all the drudgery out of the job and leaves the programmer to do the interesting bits. -- Tony Marston http://www.tonymarston.net http://www.radicore.org -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
Stut [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ed Lazor wrote: On Oct 12, 2006, at 4:36 PM, Stut wrote: If I then go on to create an admin interface for the users, I would create another completely separate class called UserCollection to handle more than one user. I may at that point choose to expose any data-massaging methods in User to UserCollection to avoid code duplication, but that would be the extent of the way UserCollection uses the User class since the User class is optimised to work on a single user at any one time. We use a similar approach for the user class. I haven't ever implemented something like the UserCollection class though. I'm curious about that. Does your UserCollection class extend the basic user class? Or is it something else entirely; I dunno, maybe UserCollection has a property defined as an array of User class? I think that's what people were saying earlier in the thread as being a very bad thing in terms of memory utilization, etc. Indeed, that would be a very bad thing, unless you've already considered that. I've previously mentioned that I have an ActiveRecord-style implementation for a lot of my DB access. The base class for that system has a static function called FindAll which will return an array of objects. However, it only does a single SQL statement. The base class also has a method LoadFromArray which, shockingly, loads the object from an array. This means that from a single DB request I can get an array of objects each representing one entitity (potentially a row, but not necessarily). The very idea of one object per row makes me want to throw up. I have one object per table, and each object can deal with any number of rows. I don't use getters and setters to access the columns from any row, I simply input an array (typically one row from the $_POST array) and output an array which may contain any number of rows. I find this to be far easier and no less efficient. -- Tony Marston http://www.tonymarston.net http://www.radicore.org -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
Ed Lazor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Oct 13, 2006, at 1:35 AM, Tony Marston wrote: What a coincidence! That's exactly my approach, but I've taken it one step further. I always start with a properly normalised database which I can then import into my daa dictionary application. From there I can press a button and create a class file for each database table, and I am ptting the finishing touhes to a procedure whereby I can press another button to generate the scripts which will maintain each table. This means I can get basic transactions up and running without writing a single line of code. All I have to do is edit these files to include business logic and any customisations. Is the Radicore framework still available? What do you mean *still*? Since I released it I have never closed it down. I am still working on it and releasing improvements. I am just about to release some new functionality which will generate more standard code for each transaction. Watch my website (see link in my signature) for an announcement. -- Tony Marston http://www.tonymarston.net http://www.radicore.org -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
Ed Lazor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Oct 13, 2006, at 1:54 AM, Stut wrote: Youch!! Your implementation seems to be focused on development efficiency rather than runtime efficience. In all but rare research projects this is backwards for a web-based system. This is exactly the practice I am trying to discourage. It's a well-known fact that code generators are a poor substitute for real developers. I agree with Stut, but I'd also like to check out a copy of the framework. It seems like a lot of people are using frameworks now days and I can't help but wonder if they provide similar performance as the OOP library that Stut uses. If you want to build administrative web applications which have a small number of users, and where development costs are more important than performance of execution (i.e. developer cycles over cpu cycles) then check out RADICORE at http://www.radicore.org It is better than Ruby on Rails. -- Tony Marston http://www.tonymarston.net http://www.radicore.org -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
Please include the list when replying to that others may benefit (or suffer) from the discussion. Bruce Cowin wrote: I like your static user class. Does the user instance then get saved to a session variable that is serialized/unserialized on every page? There is no user instance as such. In that simple case the only thing stored is an array of allowable actions. If I were to extend it to more complex user system I would likely convert the User class to non-static and store an instance of that in the session. I would then have a static method called Current() to return the static instance. -Stut -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
that, it doesn't apply too much where PHP is concerned unless you are developing a set of classes for public consumption. What is more important is that by packaging data and logic together you end up with one place where it all happens, and you can choose how much of the internal workings are exposed to the rest of the system. The only difference here is that I'd probably aim for all classes to be good enough for public consumption, but I know that takes more time in development. For me it's not a case of taking more time in development. Due to the nature of PHP, the way a particular class is used, its context, is more important to me than making it generic. I'll advocate code reuse until I'm blue in the face, but when performance is one of the main goals there is often little choice but to rewrite code to fit a particular situation. This is one of the reasons I steer clear of libraries like PEAR for anything but trivial sites - I can't guarantee that third party code will not adversely affect the overall performance of the site. In addition I've found that 9 times out of 10 it's quicker in the long run to just implement it myself - at least then I know exactly what it's doing and how, which makes it easier to fix and optimise later. To relate that twoddle to PHP... OOP is a stable, mature methodology. However, OOP in PHP is fairly new (if you ignore PHP4's pitiful efforts) and there's still a lot of unease about this new kid on the block, along with a lot of hype around the idea that it will launch PHP into being a real programming language instead of just a web-based toy (can't recall where I read that, otherwise I'd provide a reference). Yea, that's why I was making sure to get PHP5. It seems like providers are still lagging in implementing it tho? If by providers you mean hosts then you're right. I actually run a hosting company and can only offer PHP5 because we recently went through a process of upgrading all our servers (painful that was!!) and a customer survey showed that over 90% of them wanted the upgrade - 13% said they were likely to switch provider within 6 months if we did not upgrade. However, I do know that making such a move can be incredibly expensive, not only in obvious engineer time required to simply do the upgrade but the resulting support costs will be an order of magnitude greater even if the upgrades themselves go very smoothly. I'm in a very fortunate position in that nearly all of my clients fall into one of two camps... those that are competent developers, and those with simple static sites. I'd quite like an opinion from a Zend Engine developer here. As I've previously mentioned I primarily work with a fairly large OOP-based system but haven't noticed any great performance drain. While it's true that we use Zend Platform on both our development and production servers that's purely due to the sheer number of files involved in each request - something that would still be a problem if it were 100% procedural. And even without the platform enabled it's not particularly sluggish. Are you at liberty to talk more about the OOP-based system you use? It is a PHP developer sweet or something? I've seen a few, but I've never used them. I don't use any third party code unless it's something I cannot implement or don't have the time to implement - both of which are thankfully quite rare. PHP frameworks are great if you want rapid development and your system fits nicely into the common structure, but they suck arse if you want to do anything even slightly different. I actually use two different code structures - one at my day job which I can't say too much about (except that it's a mess by way of much incremental development), and the one I use for most of my personal/business sites. I'm currently writing an article describing the latter - I'll post a link to this list when it's finished if people are really interested. -Stut -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
On 10/13/06, Stut [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ed Lazor wrote:
...Or is it something else entirely; I dunno, maybe
UserCollection has a property defined as an array of User class? I
think that's what people were saying earlier in the thread as being a
very bad thing in terms of memory utilization, etc.
I'm honestly having a difficult time thinking of any way *other* than
having an array of User objects. In previous projects I've tried the
route of (like Richard mentioned early on):
class Customers {
var $ids = array();
var $names = array();
}
But found it very cumbersome and unintuitive when dealing with a
single Customer. Moreso I got lost when I didn't know if I were
dealing with one or many customers...
As soon as I went to a Customer and CustomerCollection approach, I was
able to make sense of it all. Even though CustomerCollection usually
didn't actually exist, except conceptually as an array of Customer
objects within my application code. Like Stut suggested, I too have
static fetch functions derived from the base ActiveRecord class that
return arrays of objects.
Maybe all of my applications have been simple enough in that I
tended to work on single objects 95% of the time, and therefore
creating interfaces for those single objects made sense. I think
that's what Ed means by situational?
It is occuring to me that perhaps all of my bias is centered around
the fact that I always create my models as children of an ActiveRecord
class, which is by nature based on *one record* of a table.
Is there an ActiveTable class that, if implemented, might completely
change everything???
Until then, I'm not convinced: constructing a basic building block
such as a Customer, and then an aggregate block such as a collection
of Customers, and so on, seems the most stable and scalable approach
almost without exception...and perhaps, with that, I'm revealing the
extent of my OOP naivety...
John W
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Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
On Oct 13, 2006, at 1:35 AM, Tony Marston wrote: What a coincidence! That's exactly my approach, but I've taken it one step further. I always start with a properly normalised database which I can then import into my daa dictionary application. From there I can press a button and create a class file for each database table, and I am ptting the finishing touhes to a procedure whereby I can press another button to generate the scripts which will maintain each table. This means I can get basic transactions up and running without writing a single line of code. All I have to do is edit these files to include business logic and any customisations. Is the Radicore framework still available? -Ed -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
On Oct 13, 2006, at 1:54 AM, Stut wrote: Youch!! Your implementation seems to be focused on development efficiency rather than runtime efficience. In all but rare research projects this is backwards for a web-based system. This is exactly the practice I am trying to discourage. It's a well-known fact that code generators are a poor substitute for real developers. I agree with Stut, but I'd also like to check out a copy of the framework. It seems like a lot of people are using frameworks now days and I can't help but wonder if they provide similar performance as the OOP library that Stut uses. -Ed -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
# [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 2006-10-12 06:49:22 +0100: Roman Neuhauser wrote: # [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 2006-10-11 21:28:36 +0100: Richard Lynch wrote: This is a classic example of the obvious OOP solution being wildly inappropriate. Ok, so I now find myself in the unusual position of disagreeing with the Lynchmeister. Why is this wildly inappropriate? IMHO this is what OOP is all about. [...] I never said anything about physical entities. The OOP methodology has nothing to do with physical entities, but it has everything to do with entities. The fact that in this example the entity is physical has no bearing on it whatsoever. Nobody said anything about limiting OOP entities to physical entities. Right, sorry for going off on a tangent, it was 3am. :] When you're talking about something as simple as a customer it's true that an OOP approach probably doesn't add much to the equation. However, when you're dealing with complex entities which span several tables and have data stored in a different format to how it's used (think serialize) it makes sense to have a single point where you can get that data so that you don't end up duplicating the code needed to extract and store it. I'll have most of that handled by the database through triggers, updatable views, foreign keys etc. If this is not what you think OOP is all about, do please enlighten us as to the error of our ways. Imagine deleting many rows in a table one by one (pseudocode): snip instead of taking them with a single DELETE: snip Whoa nellie!! This is a question of design, not a question of whether to use OOP. Sure. I think obvious is the key word in Richard's statement: This is a classic example of the obvious OOP solution being wildly inappropriate. AFAICS he says that the obvious solution is wrong, not that OOP is wrong here. -- How many Vietnam vets does it take to screw in a light bulb? You don't know, man. You don't KNOW. Cause you weren't THERE. http://bash.org/?255991 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
Roman Neuhauser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] # [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 2006-10-11 21:28:36 +0100: Richard Lynch wrote: On Tue, October 10, 2006 6:14 pm, Chris de Vidal wrote: I want to create a customer class which fetches its attributes from a MySQL database. No, you don't. :-) This is a classic example of the obvious OOP solution being wildly inappropriate. Ok, so I now find myself in the unusual position of disagreeing with the Lynchmeister. Why is this wildly inappropriate? IMHO this is what OOP is all about. I have to disagree as well. There is absolutely nothing wrong which the approach of creating one class for each table in the database. It cannot be wrong for the simple reason THAT IT WORKS! It is also the simplest approach as it keeps all the business rules for each database entity in a single class. Also, by keeping the structure of each object in sync with the structure of the database you don't have to introduce another pointless level of complexity with OR mappers. Those OO purists who insist on creating object hierarchies which bear no resemblance to the database structure are making a rod for their own backs. That notion of purity is my idea of putrefaction. -- Tony Marston http://www.tonymarston.net http://www.radicore.org -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
By the way, about myself. I'm primarily a system administrator. Most of the
time I USE code, NOT
write it. But I also dabble, and right now we need to improve our old custom
PHP revenue
application which has sat stagnant for a few years. We can't afford a
full-time programmer and I
know enough to be dangerous ;-) So I'm the guy.
All that to say I'm no pro and am humbly asking your collective professional
opinions.
--- Richard Lynch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I want to create a customer class which fetches its attributes from
a MySQL database.
No, you don't. :-)
This is a classic example of the obvious OOP solution being wildly
inappropriate.
I'll consider that possibility.
Start thinking more in terms of what you want the whole application to
do, and build classes that do THAT, rather then starting with a single
customer and their info.
It seems you are advocating procedural programming here. I don't see how your
use of classes are
anything more than glorified functions. I could re-word the sentence above
thusly:
Start thinking more in terms of what you want the whole application to
do, and build [functions] that do THAT...
That's the path we went down at first and the net result was data access
functions being copied
and modified all over the place, making maintenance a real chore.
Did it have speed? Yes. Do I hesitate to make changes to it? Yes. In a
world where I am forced
to choose between speed and maintainability, I'll probably choose speed,
particularly when the
program will be used daily. However, I truly believe a speedier OOD is
attainable, which is why
I'm asking.
If, however, you are talking about some blending, where I create a
procedural-style class and then
make any modifications in subclasses which override the parent class, like this:
class parentFunction
{
getRevenueForCustomer ($id)
{
// SELECT * FROM customer_revenue WHERE customer_id = '$id'
}
}
class childFunction inherits parentFunction
{
// Overriding the parent function
getRevenueForCustomer ($id, $year, $month, $department)
{
// SELECT * FROM customer_revenue WHERE customer_id = '$id' AND year =
'$year' AND month =
'$month' AND department = '$department'
}
}
If that's what you mean, I honestly can't see how that saves coding time or
helps maintenance,
unless I need to also use some extraneous code with every query which would be
included into the
constructor. But then I could also use a function (instead of a class) which
is like a query
wrapper:
function sql_query ($query)
{
// Some massaging routines
// ...
// Some more
// ...
$result = mysql_query ($query);
// Error handling routines
// ...
// Other routines
// ...
return $result;
}
sql_query (SELECT * FROM ...);
If that's the case, I don't see the need for classes at all, and that's
actually the path we went
down at first. We created a query function which massaged the input and
handled errors. I've
since learned that's not what I really wanted to do; I want to handle errors
elsewhere. I think
the above is easier to understand than using a class.
Anyway, tell me what you have in mind.
CD
Think you#39;re a good person? Yeah, right! ;-)
Prove it and get ten thousand dollars:
TenThousandDollarOffer.com
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Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
On Wed, October 11, 2006 3:28 pm, Stut wrote: Richard Lynch wrote: On Tue, October 10, 2006 6:14 pm, Chris de Vidal wrote: I want to create a customer class which fetches its attributes from a MySQL database. No, you don't. :-) This is a classic example of the obvious OOP solution being wildly inappropriate. Ok, so I now find myself in the unusual position of disagreeing with the Lynchmeister. Why is this wildly inappropriate? IMHO this is what OOP is all about. You can encapsulate everything to do with a customer in an object. This ensures that you don't duplicate any code that works on customer data. You avoid duplication of code. As a result you can ensure data integrity because there is only one route to read and write it. If this is not what you think OOP is all about, do please enlighten us as to the error of our ways. Doing this without some kind of cache or some kind of bulk load of multiple customer data is inevitably going to lead to having a zillion customer instances floating around in one script to calculate something not readily expressed in an SQL aggregate. See other thread regarding 100 orders with all related uploaded files for an example. It's not so much that having a customer object is wrong, as that having ONLY a customer object to deal with an application that deals with MUCH MORE than a single customer at a time is wrong. You're going to end up having a TON of duplicate code for a single customer and multiple customers, or you're going to swamp your machine with way too many instances of a do-nothing object for the sake of being OOP And, in point of fact, unless you spend the majority of your time/energy in your application dealing with one customer at a time, it's quite likely that your one customer at a time can be encapsulated in a much more re-usable generalized notion of a set of customers -- albeit a set with only one element, and with a few specialized functions for certain operations with only work for one-element sets. Objectifying customer is the immediate, obvious, and totally inappropriate solution to needing to deal with not just one customer, but with sets of customers, some of which may, or may not, need special handling for a set with one element. This is merely the most obvious example of what is *probably* the needs of the original poster. One problem with OOP is that you really do need to understand very very very well the full scale and scope of your application before you can architect the appropriate OOP model. Its entirely possible that he does not need sets of customers, but needs some OTHER OOP model -- And there's no way to know without knowing the full scope of the project. You can do a bunch of simple object stuff in an iterative design, scale, scope interaction for rapid prototyping, but you have to be prepared to scrap all that code once you figure out what you REALLY wanted to do for your application, and you build the REAL application with the correct OOP model. Some Free Advice for a beginning OOP scripter. #1. Play around a lot with OOP on some non-mission-critical toy projects to get the feel of it. Build the smallest silliest OOP thing you can think of, and push the limits of class inheritence and how the pieces can be fit together in unusual ways. #2. Don't use a 'class' in a real project until you find yourself typing code that does almost the same thing as code you typed before, only it's just enough different to make an include or function unwieldy. At that juncture in time, figure out how you could relate the code you are typing NOW to the old code, and what common components you can abstract out to a base class and which parts are specializations of the base class. Re-code both chunks of code as OOP. *THAT* is the real power of OOP. Don't get me wrong: There are some other other uses of OOP, such as a substitute for namespaces for code for public release. But the obvious one-to-one mapping of real-world things to OOP classes seldom works out very well, unless your whole application is all about exploring/defining the relationships among those objects, rather than doing something complex with those objects. I *still* don't see OOP as a Right Answer for spitting out HTML web pages in optimized minimalist time frames... Maybe my brain just got warped by all that AI/Lisp work I did for a couple decades, but it feels to me like a bad selection of weapons for the task at hand, most times I see it in PHP. [shrug] -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some starving artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
On Thu, October 12, 2006 12:49 am, Stut wrote: Roman Neuhauser wrote: # [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 2006-10-11 21:28:36 +0100: Richard Lynch wrote: On Tue, October 10, 2006 6:14 pm, Chris de Vidal wrote: I want to create a customer class which fetches its attributes from a MySQL database. No, you don't. :-) This is a classic example of the obvious OOP solution being wildly inappropriate. Ok, so I now find myself in the unusual position of disagreeing with the Lynchmeister. Why is this wildly inappropriate? IMHO this is what OOP is all about. To clarify my original statement. The *OBVIOUS* OOP setup of customer === class customer was the wildly in appropriate bit, not using OOP in some more sensible manner, like: //a set of customers class customers ( var customer_ids array(); } I believe my original post went on to say that more explicitly, but I can now see that many thought I was just railing against OOP in general, which was not my intent. (In *this* particular sentence, anyway. :-)) -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some starving artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
On Thu, October 12, 2006 3:11 am, Tony Marston wrote: I have to disagree as well. There is absolutely nothing wrong which the approach of creating one class for each table in the database. It cannot be wrong for the simple reason THAT IT WORKS! Only problem is that then you often end up making ONE INSTANCE for each *row* in a large result set, and then you are in BIG TROUBLE. IT DOES NOT WORK! You've *got* to have some kind of other class that handles more than a couple handsful of the data, for anything other than a trivial application. And if it was trivial to start with OOP is rarely the right answer. -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some starving artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
On Thu, October 12, 2006 8:24 am, Chris de Vidal wrote: [use the archives] I can't architect a good OOP solution to a problem that hasn't been fully defined, any more than one can architect a house without knowing all the rooms that are needed... I agree that all the code samples you provided below are wrong, if that helps. :-) If getRevenueForCustomer is all you need, then I'd have optional args for year and other factors, and have just one query and one function, and it does the right thing for that one customer. I'm assuming you need a heck of a lot more than that, though, so the above paragraph is not particularly helpful. The problem with an OOP discussion like this is that you have to have a complete understanding of what needs to be done before you can make sensible statement about what do do. It's POSSIBLE that class customer is the right answer, though I doubt it based on your original post about performance problems from having too many instances floating around. Maybe others' analysis that class customer was right, but not having the database access optimized with cache or with aggregators or something was the true problem. Maybe I even have a point about using class customers and operating on sets, even if it means specializing on the one-element-set. There's no way anybody can say for sure, not knowing the full scope of the application, though. -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some starving artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
On Oct 12, 2006, at 10:18 AM, Richard Lynch wrote: I can't architect a good OOP solution to a problem that hasn't been fully defined, any more than one can architect a house without knowing all the rooms that are needed... Sorry to jump into the middle of the conversation, but I thought this was a pretty interesting comment. It serves as one of those occasional reminders that I need to go back and study OOP structure design a bit more. I know you're right about the importance of a fully defined problem, but it also seems that the reverse is true if you're really good with OOP. In other words, it seems like any high quality solution starts by defining least common denominators. You start with basic building blocks and expand from there; I'm always amazed when I see space stations or other complex structures built out of Legos, for example. My problem is that I usually look at OOP and think it'll take too long, so I go the non-OOP route, solve the problem, and move on. I can't help but think I'm missing out. I do have libraries of code that I reuse, but I've always heard that I'd benefit a lot more from them if I OOPed them. Dunno... that's my two cents worth anyway hehe -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
Richard Lynch wrote: I *still* don't see OOP as a Right Answer for spitting out HTML web pages in optimized minimalist time frames... Maybe my brain just got warped by all that AI/Lisp work I did for a couple decades, but it feels to me like a bad selection of weapons for the task at hand, most times I see it in PHP. [shrug] There are different levels of applications that are 'spitting out HTML web pages'. If you're developing a system where each script is independent and simply makes use of shared code then OOP is almost certainly not worth it. When you get to a system of the size I deal with (several thousand files with several hundred classes and a single entry point) it becomes a lot easier to deal with that in an OOP fashion. As for your other posts about have a class that represents a single customer not being a good idea if you are going to be dealing with potentially large sets of customers, I would have to agree whole-heartedly. And I apologise if I read your post as an absolutely anti-OOP opinion when it was not. I came from a C/C++ background and feel that I understand the good and the bad effects of using OOP very well. In a PHP environment you generally need to take more care with how you architect the system to take into account the build and tear-down that occurs with each request, but OOP can still be used to great effect in large PHP sites. I do take issue with your 'free advice' when you say you should base your OOP code on your existing code. One of the things OOP does is allow/force you to think about the way you deal with data in your application from a different angle. That's definitely worth doing. In my experience developers get stuck in their habits far too easily and anything that causes you to re-evaluate the way you to things has to be worthwhile. Anyways, some of that probably didn't make much sense, so I need to write some code now. -Stut -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
Ed Lazor wrote: On Oct 12, 2006, at 10:18 AM, Richard Lynch wrote: I can't architect a good OOP solution to a problem that hasn't been fully defined, any more than one can architect a house without knowing all the rooms that are needed... Sorry to jump into the middle of the conversation, but I thought this was a pretty interesting comment. It serves as one of those occasional reminders that I need to go back and study OOP structure design a bit more. I know you're right about the importance of a fully defined problem, but it also seems that the reverse is true if you're really good with OOP. In other words, it seems like any high quality solution starts by defining least common denominators. You start with basic building blocks and expand from there; I'm always amazed when I see space stations or other complex structures built out of Legos, for example. My problem is that I usually look at OOP and think it'll take too long, so I go the non-OOP route, solve the problem, and move on. I can't help but think I'm missing out. I do have libraries of code that I reuse, but I've always heard that I'd benefit a lot more from them if I OOPed them. Dunno... that's my two cents worth anyway hehe Except that is the attitude that leads to painful OOP in PHP. PHP is not the same environment as C++. The environment (classes, objects, etc) needs to be created and destroyed with each request. As such you cannot start designing a solution unless you know how the data/entities are going to be used. OOP in PHP cannot start with basic building blocks, at least not if you want a system that performs reasonably well. -Stut -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
On Thu, October 12, 2006 1:03 pm, Ed Lazor wrote: On Oct 12, 2006, at 10:18 AM, Richard Lynch wrote: I can't architect a good OOP solution to a problem that hasn't been fully defined, any more than one can architect a house without knowing all the rooms that are needed... Sorry to jump into the middle of the conversation, but I thought this was a pretty interesting comment. It serves as one of those occasional reminders that I need to go back and study OOP structure design a bit more. I know you're right about the importance of a fully defined problem, but it also seems that the reverse is true if you're really good with OOP. In other words, it seems like any high quality solution starts by defining least common denominators. You start with basic building blocks and expand from there; I'm always amazed when I see space stations or other complex structures built out of Legos, for example. My problem is that I usually look at OOP and think it'll take too long, so I go the non-OOP route, solve the problem, and move on. I can't help but think I'm missing out. I do have libraries of code that I reuse, but I've always heard that I'd benefit a lot more from them if I OOPed them. Dunno... that's my two cents worth anyway hehe Rapid prototyping in OOP, if you're willing to chuck the prototyping if it turns out to be the wrong OOP model is do-able. Even building the basic blocks first is fine -- but you've got to have the whole structure in your mind if you expect those blocks to fit in well. This is probably not really specific to OOP, but I think it tends to be more obvious with OOP when you start trying to work around the short-sighted architecture. By which I only mean that in procedural programming, the work-arounds feel less like work-arounds, at least at first, as they are not so obviously work-arounds, and just look like more functions. To get back to the ORIGINAL point -- OOP is not about raw performance. It's about maintainability, code re-use, encapsulation, etc. You can get acceptable performance from OOP if you know what you are doing -- If you don't, it's super easy for a beginner to write a total performance hog following all the best practices in the world. -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some starving artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
# [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 2006-10-12 16:29:09 -0500: On Thu, October 12, 2006 1:03 pm, Ed Lazor wrote: On Oct 12, 2006, at 10:18 AM, Richard Lynch wrote: I can't architect a good OOP solution to a problem that hasn't been fully defined, any more than one can architect a house without knowing all the rooms that are needed... Sorry to jump into the middle of the conversation, but I thought this was a pretty interesting comment. It serves as one of those occasional reminders that I need to go back and study OOP structure design a bit more. I know you're right about the importance of a fully defined problem, but it also seems that the reverse is true if you're really good with OOP. In other words, it seems like any high quality solution starts by defining least common denominators. You start with basic building blocks and expand from there; I'm always amazed when I see space stations or other complex structures built out of Legos, for example. My problem is that I usually look at OOP and think it'll take too long, so I go the non-OOP route, solve the problem, and move on. I can't help but think I'm missing out. I do have libraries of code that I reuse, but I've always heard that I'd benefit a lot more from them if I OOPed them. Dunno... that's my two cents worth anyway hehe Rapid prototyping in OOP, if you're willing to chuck the prototyping if it turns out to be the wrong OOP model is do-able. Even building the basic blocks first is fine -- but you've got to have the whole structure in your mind if you expect those blocks to fit in well. Erm, I stopped doing BDUFs when I had to throw out two unimplementable designs and 2 x approx. 2000 LOC. The third attempt grew test-first, with better results. -- How many Vietnam vets does it take to screw in a light bulb? You don't know, man. You don't KNOW. Cause you weren't THERE. http://bash.org/?255991 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
Comments / Questions below. On Oct 12, 2006, at 12:15 PM, Stut wrote: Except that is the attitude that leads to painful OOP in PHP. PHP is not the same environment as C++. The environment (classes, objects, etc) needs to be created and destroyed with each request. I definitely agree that PHP is not the same as C++. I agree with the need for high efficiency and performance with low overhead. Actually, it's funny you mention that, because I've argued those same points with C/C++ coders new to PHP. As such you cannot start designing a solution unless you know how the data/entities are going to be used. Doesn't this mean that your design breaks when the behavior or use of the data/entities changes? OOP in PHP cannot start with basic building blocks, at least not if you want a system that performs reasonably well. Right. That makes sense with PHP being an interpreted language. I've tried to offset this somewhat by compiling libraries and having them cached before pages that rely on these libraries load. I'm trying to get a better idea of how you leverage the advantage of OOP in PHP. Do you use it? If so, how? Do you use any OOP methodologies? If so, which ones? For that matter, how many of your projects start with a detailed description of all data/entities and how they are going to be used? Does your experience differ a lot from mine? My customers rarely have a complete understanding of what they'll be doing. They usually only have a general idea. Part of my challenge is to help them define that idea, especially when it comes to defining the scope of the initial project. Yes, scope creep is to be avoided or managed in projects, but customers are always finding new and creative ways to apply their ideas. Things have to be flexible enough to support current needs and future needs. You're saying that you cannot start designing a solution unless you know how the data/entities are going to be used. I'm saying that you have to start somewhere and that code has to be extensible enough to meet growing demands. I'm sure that you try to come up with flexible designs, but I'm wondering. What is your approach? Also, isn't OOP supposed to be about separating data from programming logic? If that's the case, isn't how you use that data irrelevant? That seems like one of the greatest promises of OOP, but maybe that's just the hype? On Oct 12, 2006, at 2:29 PM, Richard Lynch wrote: Rapid prototyping in OOP, if you're willing to chuck the prototyping if it turns out to be the wrong OOP model is do-able. Do you end up throwing away a lot of code? Even building the basic blocks first is fine -- but you've got to have the whole structure in your mind if you expect those blocks to fit in well. It sounds like you (Both Stut and Richard) have done a lot of this, so I'm sure you know what you're talking about. Like I mentioned in my original post, I think I need to spend time learning better object modeling in order to take better advantage of OOP. I still can't help but wonder. How do you know if you have the full structure? Don't you end up going back and changing things a lot? This is probably not really specific to OOP, but I think it tends to be more obvious with OOP when you start trying to work around the short-sighted architecture. By which I only mean that in procedural programming, the work-arounds feel less like work-arounds, at least at first, as they are not so obviously work-arounds, and just look like more functions. I'm honestly not sure if I understand what you're saying here, but I do know that I've always tended more toward linear / procedural programming with a lot of functions. I have used OOP, but in very limited capacity - mainly to avoid the system overhead. I think I've also avoided it because I usually run into problems with defining data in objects - similar to the original issue of creating a customer object only to run into the problem of how to handle objects that represent a collection of customers. Again, me needing to get a better understanding of data modeling in OOP. It seems like you still end up having to learn data modeling the PHP way; people are probably critical of PHP because of this, but it seems like there's a middle ground and I'm curious where you guys have found that to be. Should I take this off the mailing list and talk with you about it in separate email? To get back to the ORIGINAL point -- OOP is not about raw performance. It's about maintainability, code re-use, encapsulation, etc. You can get acceptable performance from OOP if you know what you are doing -- If you don't, it's super easy for a beginner to write a total performance hog following all the best practices in the world. Definitely agree with you there. -Ed -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
Richard Lynch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thu, October 12, 2006 3:11 am, Tony Marston wrote: I have to disagree as well. There is absolutely nothing wrong which the approach of creating one class for each table in the database. It cannot be wrong for the simple reason THAT IT WORKS! Only problem is that then you often end up making ONE INSTANCE for each *row* in a large result set, and then you are in BIG TROUBLE. IT DOES NOT WORK! You've *got* to have some kind of other class that handles more than a couple handsful of the data, for anything other than a trivial application. I don't have, and never will have, one instance for each row. One instance can deal with any number of rows. And if it was trivial to start with OOP is rarely the right answer. Something may start as trivial, but over time it can expand into something more than trivial, by which time you will lose out by not going down the OO route to begin with. -- Tony Marston http://www.tonymarston.net http://www.radicore.org -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
will not shield you from the effects of having the system specification pulled from under your feet. However, it can be used to lessen the blow by anticipating what those future changes might be. That comes with experience and no methodology can get completely around it. Also, isn't OOP supposed to be about separating data from programming logic? If that's the case, isn't how you use that data irrelevant? That seems like one of the greatest promises of OOP, but maybe that's just the hype? Yes and no. OOP actually brings data and the logic that works on it together, while keeping logic that doesn't work directly on the data awway. One of the core aims of the OOP methodology is to hide as much of the data behind an API that allows the implementation of that API to change without affecting how that API is used. Having said that, it doesn't apply too much where PHP is concerned unless you are developing a set of classes for public consumption. What is more important is that by packaging data and logic together you end up with one place where it all happens, and you can choose how much of the internal workings are exposed to the rest of the system. I'd also like to say that OOP itself is not hype. In the same way that podcasts themselves are not hype. It's what surrounds stuff that gives it the uneasy feeling that it's hype. Podcasting is the next stage of audio and video entertainment in the same way that colour TV was all those years ago. They hype exists because of the cruddy media-driven world we now live in where everything has to be hyped up if it's going to be popular, even if it's short-lived. To relate that twoddle to PHP... OOP is a stable, mature methodology. However, OOP in PHP is fairly new (if you ignore PHP4's pitiful efforts) and there's still a lot of unease about this new kid on the block, along with a lot of hype around the idea that it will launch PHP into being a real programming language instead of just a web-based toy (can't recall where I read that, otherwise I'd provide a reference). OOP is good, but it needs to be used where appropriate to the context. OOP should not be used for the sake of it, but it should also not be dismissed as a fad or hype. On Oct 12, 2006, at 2:29 PM, Richard Lynch wrote: Rapid prototyping in OOP, if you're willing to chuck the prototyping if it turns out to be the wrong OOP model is do-able. Do you end up throwing away a lot of code? I can't speak for Richard, but hell yeah! I've probably thrown away more code than the amount I've written that is still in use. This is a fundamental hurdle that all developers need to get over. Not so prevalent now with the fresh developers arriving in the job market now, but in previous years there were too many who would refuse to throw away any code they had written for what I can only guess are sentimental reasons. Write it once. Realise that it's ugly and wrong. Write it again. Realise that it's right but could be improved. Write it a third time and you should have a work of art. If you're not willing to say that code I just wrote sucks, IMHO you're not a very good developer. In addition, if you're not willing to throw said code away because it too me hours, IMHO you're not a very good developer. BTW, this is not related to OOP in the slightest. The same would go for any methodology. Even building the basic blocks first is fine -- but you've got to have the whole structure in your mind if you expect those blocks to fit in well. It sounds like you (Both Stut and Richard) have done a lot of this, so I'm sure you know what you're talking about. Like I mentioned in my original post, I think I need to spend time learning better object modeling in order to take better advantage of OOP. I still can't help but wonder. How do you know if you have the full structure? Don't you end up going back and changing things a lot? Yes you do. And you should. If you don't then you've almost certainly done something wrong, probably not tested it enough. This is probably not really specific to OOP, but I think it tends to be more obvious with OOP when you start trying to work around the short-sighted architecture. By which I only mean that in procedural programming, the work-arounds feel less like work-arounds, at least at first, as they are not so obviously work-arounds, and just look like more functions. I'm honestly not sure if I understand what you're saying here, but I do know that I've always tended more toward linear / procedural programming with a lot of functions. I have used OOP, but in very limited capacity - mainly to avoid the system overhead. I think I've also avoided it because I usually run into problems with defining data in objects - similar to the original issue of creating a customer object only to run into the problem of how to handle objects that represent a collection of customers. Again, me needing to get a better
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
to lessen the blow by anticipating what those future changes might be. That comes with experience and no methodology can get completely around it. True, very very true hehe Also, isn't OOP supposed to be about separating data from programming logic? If that's the case, isn't how you use that data irrelevant? That seems like one of the greatest promises of OOP, but maybe that's just the hype? Yes and no. OOP actually brings data and the logic that works on it together, while keeping logic that doesn't work directly on the data awway. One of the core aims of the OOP methodology is to hide as much of the data behind an API that allows the implementation of that API to change without affecting how that API is used. Ok... I'm with you so far... Having said that, it doesn't apply too much where PHP is concerned unless you are developing a set of classes for public consumption. What is more important is that by packaging data and logic together you end up with one place where it all happens, and you can choose how much of the internal workings are exposed to the rest of the system. The only difference here is that I'd probably aim for all classes to be good enough for public consumption, but I know that takes more time in development. Podcasting is the next stage of audio and video entertainment in the same way that colour TV was all those years ago. *cough* AskNinja.com RULES! hehe *cough* To relate that twoddle to PHP... OOP is a stable, mature methodology. However, OOP in PHP is fairly new (if you ignore PHP4's pitiful efforts) and there's still a lot of unease about this new kid on the block, along with a lot of hype around the idea that it will launch PHP into being a real programming language instead of just a web-based toy (can't recall where I read that, otherwise I'd provide a reference). Yea, that's why I was making sure to get PHP5. It seems like providers are still lagging in implementing it tho? I'd quite like an opinion from a Zend Engine developer here. As I've previously mentioned I primarily work with a fairly large OOP- based system but haven't noticed any great performance drain. While it's true that we use Zend Platform on both our development and production servers that's purely due to the sheer number of files involved in each request - something that would still be a problem if it were 100% procedural. And even without the platform enabled it's not particularly sluggish. Are you at liberty to talk more about the OOP-based system you use? It is a PHP developer sweet or something? I've seen a few, but I've never used them. Are classes in PHP5 significantly slower than a functional solution? I'm trying to find it, but I saw a test of this awhile back pointing out that classes introduce a lot of overhead... having to load a function into memory versus loading the class and then instantiating it, etc. before you can call anything... I'm really curious if any other developers have feedback or comments on this, especially the OOP methodologies. -Ed -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
--- Johan Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You should look into getting Professional PHP5 by Lecky-Thompson, Eide-Goodman, Nowicki and Cove from WROX. ... The collection class in chapter 5 discusses a programming problem just like yours. I will look into that, thank you. CD Think you#39;re a good person? Yeah, right! ;-) Prove it and get ten thousand dollars: TenThousandDollarOffer.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
--- Larry Garfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For your rudimentary example of object-relational mapping below, yes, performance is going to be atrocious. That's because you're not taking any advantage of the features that using OOP gives you. Well, I /thought/ I was taking advantage of black box-style hiding (not sure what it's called), that is, making sure the only place I type (and modify) my SQL query is hidden inside the private method of a class. Again, pull extra data if you can. A somewhat larger result set is (usually) better than multiple queries. How much you want to front-load in your object and how much you want to defer to later depends on your specific problem and how frequently the data will be used. OK that somewhat answers the question. 5) If you need to grab 100 objects at once, but just need basic data out of them, use a factory. Vis, (code snipped) I /think/ I understand the code. But I'd need more than just basic data, so I probably will just write a query. 6) If you need to do a complex query with a couple of joins and such, then don't waste your time or the computer's trying to shoe-horn it into SQL. SQL is not inherently OO to start with! Just write your query and loop it and be happy. OOP is not the answer to all problems. Sometimes it does just make matters worse, no matter what Sun tries to tell you. :-) LOL Yeah, I was thinking of shoe-horning things into SQL for speed. I want my data to _only_ be accessed from the black box called an OOP class. That will work and is achievable in about 30% of all situations. For the other 70%, you will have to just hunker down and *gasp* write SQL specific to the task at hand at least some of the time. How much of the time once again depends on your situation and the problem you're trying to solve. *gasp* :-) From what it seems like people are telling me, it's a good idea to boot OOP for large numbers of objects where I need more than just a little information and just use an SQL query, as I suspected. At least, for PHP; I wonder what Java people do in this situation. CD Think you#39;re a good person? Yeah, right! ;-) Prove it and get ten thousand dollars: TenThousandDollarOffer.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
- Original Message - From: Chris de Vidal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: php-general@lists.php.net Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 12:42 PM Subject: Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot? --- Johan Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You should look into getting Professional PHP5 by Lecky-Thompson, Eide-Goodman, Nowicki and Cove from WROX. ... The collection class in chapter 5 discusses a programming problem just like yours. I will look into that, thank you. CD Regardless of whether you find the sugested book or not, do take note that a good place for functions as the one you require, as Johan sugestests, isin a class representing collections of the individual objects. Thus, it is usually good to have a class representing individual objects (customer) and collections of the same (customers) or methods that provide information on groups or agregates of individual items. Satyam -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
On Tue, October 10, 2006 6:14 pm, Chris de Vidal wrote: I want to create a customer class which fetches its attributes from a MySQL database. No, you don't. :-) This is a classic example of the obvious OOP solution being wildly inappropriate. The sad thing is, there are a zillion applications out there doing it just this way... :-( Start thinking more in terms of what you want the whole application to do, and build classes that do THAT, rather then starting with a single customer and their info. -- Some people have a gift link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some starving artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
Richard Lynch wrote: On Tue, October 10, 2006 6:14 pm, Chris de Vidal wrote: I want to create a customer class which fetches its attributes from a MySQL database. No, you don't. :-) This is a classic example of the obvious OOP solution being wildly inappropriate. Ok, so I now find myself in the unusual position of disagreeing with the Lynchmeister. Why is this wildly inappropriate? IMHO this is what OOP is all about. You can encapsulate everything to do with a customer in an object. This ensures that you don't duplicate any code that works on customer data. You avoid duplication of code. As a result you can ensure data integrity because there is only one route to read and write it. If this is not what you think OOP is all about, do please enlighten us as to the error of our ways. -Stut -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] OOP slow -- am I an idiot?
# [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 2006-10-11 21:28:36 +0100:
Richard Lynch wrote:
On Tue, October 10, 2006 6:14 pm, Chris de Vidal wrote:
I want to create a customer class which fetches its attributes from
a MySQL database.
No, you don't. :-)
This is a classic example of the obvious OOP solution being wildly
inappropriate.
Ok, so I now find myself in the unusual position of disagreeing with the
Lynchmeister. Why is this wildly inappropriate? IMHO this is what OOP is
all about.
No, that's what trivial OOP examples applied to the letter where
a different approach is in order are. If you study the GoF book [GoF]
you'll see that the traditional claim objects model physical
entities from real world (and nothing else) is very simplistic
and terribly limiting.
[GoF] http://www.amazon.com/dp/0201633612/
If you paint yourself into this corner you'll find your code
grinding the database to death in the OO-relational impedance
mismatch. The OOP ideal of a single source of data is nice,
unfortunately the real world gets in the way.
You can encapsulate everything to do with a customer in an object. This
ensures that you don't duplicate any code that works on customer data.
You avoid duplication of code. As a result you can ensure data integrity
because there is only one route to read and write it.
Who talks about duplicating business logic? You just need to have
more than one access point for the data.
If this is not what you think OOP is all about, do please enlighten us
as to the error of our ways.
Imagine deleting many rows in a table one by one (pseudocode):
class Record
{
function __construct($id)
{
$this-id = $id;
}
function delete()
{
// DELETE FROM some_table WHERE id = $this-id
}
}
foreach ($records as $r) {
$r-delete();
}
instead of taking them with a single DELETE:
// assuming
// class Search;
// $searchBuilder = new SearchBuilder;
// $SearchBuilder-add(new LessThan('id', '501'));
// $search = $searchBuilder-result();
class RecordSet
{
function __construct(Search $search)
{
$this-search = $search;
}
function delete()
{
// DELETE FROM some_table WHERE $this-search-toSQL()
}
}
$recordset($search);
$recordset-delete();
--
How many Vietnam vets does it take to screw in a light bulb?
You don't know, man. You don't KNOW.
Cause you weren't THERE. http://bash.org/?255991
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