Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors.
Brendon, no I hadn't tried any of the other schematic tricks that you mention. I wouldn't be able to use the ports for connections, don't have any, don't usually use them. Just nets globally. Duplicate designators aren't an issue unless they have some manner of getting past the ERC check for that situation. I will be starting again tomorrow morning, thanks for the ideas, more options at the very least. Sincerely, Brad Velander Norsat International -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum Sent: 02/10/2002 7:24 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors. Hi Brad, I have seen this behaviour before but it was a while ago and I can't remember how I solved or got around it. I do have some thoughts or suggestions that may force a solution... Have you tried changing the net scope to Only ports global or Sheet symbol/Port connection in conjuction with Append sheet numbers to local nets temporarily allowing it to assign nets to everything, and then changing it back to Net labels and ports global as you need to have it. What about temporarily using the largest available schematic workspace and copying all sheets onto the one and netlisting that to see if that fixes the problem? I'm not questioning your ability or experience, but do you have any duplicate designators or the like? I realise this causes a problem different to what you describe but who knows? Cheers, Brendon. -Original Message- From: Brad Velander [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 3 October 2002 10:51 AM To: Protel EDA Forum List Server (E-mail) Subject: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors. Hi all, I have a layout that is a little different than our norm in terms of size and complexity. This seems to be causing some problems that I don't normally see. I have four schematic pages in a flat hierarchy. I have used nets and ports global, I actually don't have any ports used at all just the netnames. When I run the Update PCB I get errors reported for adding nets that already exist. If I run the update anyway I get multiple occurrences of these nets showing up in the PCB netlist manager. The nets involved are all nets where I have used a netname on one sheet to tie a signal to the intended connection on the other sheet. So yes there are duplicate netnames (the same netname) within the schematics but they are needed to provide connectivity. What is wrong? How can I fix this? The first time that I ran the update, I deleted the offending net duplications from the preview macros window. On that occasion I also got an access violation near the end of the update process. Looking in the PCB file I discover that the initial components have been placed by the update function in the upper right corner as usual. However the components appear to run right off the page past the 100 inch limit of the database. I am not sure if anything might have been dropped because it ran past the 100 inches. So I move the parts down close to my PCB outline and run update again. I get the same duplicated net error but I do see some net connections being made that obviously weren' t made during the first pass. Possibly because of the access violation near the end of the first update? This is not a very large design compared to some you guys work on, is this common behaviour placing parts out past or at least to the 100 inch limit? Is there a chance that something is screwed because of this part loading out to or near the 100 inch limit? I also just tried running update again for a third time. It is still adding 2 more net connections to device pads! Why weren't these added in either of the two previous updates? I am just so leery that something is drastically wrong at the moment and that I can't trust the database. I hope someone has had similar experiences and has an answer or advice. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 certification * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors.
Brendon, it is on Brad defined netnames! Does that mean something to you? I have looked over the nets in question very thoroughly and cannot find anything unique to them. I use similar netnames right across the schematic but only these 14 are causing problems. P.S. these netnames don't cause any problem using the netlist load method but I had several other problems show up using that method. Problems that were completely different than those using the PCB Update Synchronizer. Sincerely, Brad Velander -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum Sent: 02/10/2002 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors. Brad, is this problem being exhibited on Protel generated net-names or Brad defined net-names? Regards, Brendon Sent: Thursday, 3 October 2002 10:51 AM To: Protel EDA Forum List Server (E-mail) Subject: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors. Hi all, I have a layout that is a little different than our norm in terms of size and complexity. This seems to be causing some problems that I don't normally see. I have four schematic pages in a flat hierarchy. I have used nets and ports global, I actually don't have any ports used at all just the netnames. When I run the Update PCB I get errors reported for adding nets that already exist. If I run the update anyway I get multiple occurrences of these nets showing up in the PCB netlist manager. The nets involved are all nets where I have used a netname on one sheet to tie a signal to the intended connection on the other sheet. So yes there are duplicate netnames (the same netname) within the schematics but they are needed to provide connectivity. What is wrong? How can I fix this? The first time that I ran the update, I deleted the offending net duplications from the preview macros window. On that occasion I also got an access violation near the end of the update process. Looking in the PCB file I discover that the initial components have been placed by the update function in the upper right corner as usual. However the components appear to run right off the page past the 100 inch limit of the database. I am not sure if anything might have been dropped because it ran past the 100 inches. So I move the parts down close to my PCB outline and run update again. I get the same duplicated net error but I do see some net connections being made that obviously weren' t made during the first pass. Possibly because of the access violation near the end of the first update? This is not a very large design compared to some you guys work on, is this common behaviour placing parts out past or at least to the 100 inch limit? Is there a chance that something is screwed because of this part loading out to or near the 100 inch limit? I also just tried running update again for a third time. It is still adding 2 more net connections to device pads! Why weren't these added in either of the two previous updates? I am just so leery that something is drastically wrong at the moment and that I can't trust the database. I hope someone has had similar experiences and has an answer or advice. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 certification * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors.
Duplicate designators aren't an issue unless they have some manner of getting past the ERC check for that situation. Duplicate pin number errors are not always caught at the schematic level ERC and can cause the alternating net connection on update. Seems an unlikely cause since you have 14 nets toggling. Did you catch all of the components that were placed off the work space? I have had strange update errors with components located very far below the absolute origin. Never have figured out how they get placed there. Brock * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors.
Brad, This is somewhat related, I did see the exact same thing happen to another designer here an dwas not involved enough to determine what had happened, but just some nets had connectivity problems and also it put parts off the design area on first update PCB. He also had a few crashes too. I suggested starting over with clean coppy of schematic and eventually got it to run. (Note this was a schematic imported from Orcad) so we could start over, none the less the sam ethings you are talking about happened. Now to the main part I want to add. I have seen the update function be VERY inconsistant. I have run ERC and come out clean only to have connectivity still be wrong. I have used all 3 of the net control functions to test out what happens. Also with nets and ports global I have seen only some nets connect properly. By this I mean I have sheet ports on the net but no net names, no wone would think that alll of th enets this way would not connect all parts but only some are wrong. If I add a net label also to the net it works. Now I have seen nothing different but there are plenty of other nets that do not have a net lable an djust the port and thet connect correctly? Also if I use just ports fo rglobal one would think only the ports with the same name will connnect wrong there also only sone need the net label added also All I know is I have the Engineer spit out a Protel2 netlist from Orcad schematic and I output one once I think I have it right and run the netlist compare. That has been th eonly real test I have connectivity correct. Because like I said ERC does not do it. The netlist can still break up a net on you. The netlist still says NET1 2 or 3 times but each entry for th esame netname of NET1 are not connected to each other. I have considered going to netlist bu tth eengineer make too many mistakes on his end and seems to like the extra netlist compare check? So I am stuck dealing with Protels very poor sync function. Sorry I don't have an answer to correct the problem but just saying I been there too. If you can start over from a clean copy of the schematic that may help? Bob Wolfe - Original Message - From: Brad Velander [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors. Hi Dennis, as for your question, yes you can destroy the handles by saving the PCB as ASCII, exporting, re-importing. Viola, the handles are removed, destroyed, deleted. Delete the other non-ASCII PCB files of course. I haven't tried the netlist load yet, I was trying to find an issue in the schematic end that would correct the problem. Tried several things in the schematic without success. I can't figure out why it is just 14 nets, there are probably 50 nets being used under the exact same conditions as these 14. I have run this about 10 times so far and several 2nd or third updates and the results are very consistent, the very same 14 nets every time. 2nd or 3rd updates do the infamous vacillating the nets back and forth between the duplicate nets upon every successive update. I was about to try the netlist load just as your message came in. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 certification -Original Message- From: Dennis Saputelli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 6:07 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors. i don't know but i will say that i am very much a latecomer to using update PCB it does seem pretty cool, but i got a few spooky things just like this and went back to the old netlist load the board wasn't huge is there a way to destroy the handles it creates ? (or maybe that doesn't matter) the thought i am trying to promote here is what about going back to the old netlist load? Dennis Saputelli * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors.
that sounds like it! i think it had that once do a select all and see if you can drag anything out of the dungeon Dennis Saputelli Brock Russell wrote: Duplicate designators aren't an issue unless they have some manner of getting past the ERC check for that situation. Duplicate pin number errors are not always caught at the schematic level ERC and can cause the alternating net connection on update. Seems an unlikely cause since you have 14 nets toggling. Did you catch all of the components that were placed off the work space? I have had strange update errors with components located very far below the absolute origin. Never have figured out how they get placed there. Brock -- ___ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors.
Brock, thanks for the suggestions. The real problem is not the nets toggling which is similar to duplicate pin numbers but in this case why is it continually generating these duplicate nets? Once the duplicate nets are generated then the nets vacillate back and forth between each duplicate with each successive update. (i.e. disconnect pinX from net y, connect pinX to net Y, the second net Y is the duplicate.) As well if you look at the netlist in PCB there are two nets of exactly the same name in the net list for these 14 nets. Unless of course I took the time to delete them in the update preview screen. However, I want to get rid of them rather then continually have to delete them during each successive update as the design progresses. Loading using the old netlist load technique does not exhibit this problem but shows several others that I am working on to find their cause. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 certification -Original Message- From: Brock Russell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 12:20 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors. Duplicate designators aren't an issue unless they have some manner of getting past the ERC check for that situation. Duplicate pin number errors are not always caught at the schematic level ERC and can cause the alternating net connection on update. Seems an unlikely cause since you have 14 nets toggling. Did you catch all of the components that were placed off the work space? I have had strange update errors with components located very far below the absolute origin. Never have figured out how they get placed there. Brock * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors.
Bob, what exactly do you mean by a clean copy of the schematic(s)? I picture copying everything from one schematic page to another new page. But what would this accomplish? I would be copying everything, or are you looking to not copy items which 'may' be off sheet? Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 certification -Original Message- From: Robert M. Wolfe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 6:03 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors. Brad, SNIP Sorry I don't have an answer to correct the problem but just saying I been there too. If you can start over from a clean copy of the schematic that may help? Bob Wolfe * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors.
Brad, Sorry for the confusion. I thought things off sheet (or really editable area) were footprints in the PCB when mentioned before?? I thought that was waht was mentioned?? What I meant by clean schematic in my case was to start over with the original Orcad schematic and import it into Protel again, (I guess I forgot to mention in a new database also) I believe that helped for the footprint coming into the new design off edit area. But again that was awhile ago and I was not the designer it happened to. Have not seen it since either. I was not sure what got corrupted so I told him to start with a clean slate. However I still have to play games with nets to get complete connectivity. Like I said earlier two different nets are basically done exactly the same way sheet to sheet yet one connects completely correct the other does not and splits up to 2 or 3 nets of course all the same name till net names are also added. Bob Wolfe - Original Message - From: Brad Velander [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors. Bob, what exactly do you mean by a clean copy of the schematic(s)? I picture copying everything from one schematic page to another new page. But what would this accomplish? I would be copying everything, or are you looking to not copy items which 'may' be off sheet? Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 certification -Original Message- From: Robert M. Wolfe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 6:03 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors. Brad, SNIP Sorry I don't have an answer to correct the problem but just saying I been there too. If you can start over from a clean copy of the schematic that may help? Bob Wolfe * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors.
Hi Brad: I misunderstood the problem as originally described, but I have seen the duplicate net problem you describe. Once the duplicate nets are generated then the nets vacillate back and forth between each duplicate with each successive update. (i.e. disconnect pinX from net y, connect pinX to net Y, the second net Y is the duplicate.) As well if you look at the netlist in PCB there are two nets of exactly the same name in the net list for these 14 nets. I had this problem with some bus signals. This was some time ago but I think the problem was that on some sheets the individual nets did not explicitly connect to the bus. Nets were created from the both bus labels and the isolated net labels even though connectivity was the same. IIRC there were two ways to fix it, put the buses on each sheet even if only one signal is used, or add ports and explicitly make the connections on the top level schematic. Brock * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors.
Brock, what you describe sounds very similar to the tact that I took at first, however I have not used busses on this design. The connections were all individual wire connections, all with unique net names. I did however search out and destroy any duplications of the netnames on any sheets such that there was only one netname per wire. Previously I may have had multiple netnames so that a signal was easily identified at different points on the same page without tracing back to a singular netname somewhere on the sheet. Eliminating these duplicated netnames was not the issue though, the problem persisted. Thanks though! Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 certification -Original Message- From: Brock Russell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 9:38 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors. Hi Brad: I misunderstood the problem as originally described, but I have seen the duplicate net problem you describe. Once the duplicate nets are generated then the nets vacillate back and forth between each duplicate with each successive update. (i.e. disconnect pinX from net y, connect pinX to net Y, the second net Y is the duplicate.) As well if you look at the netlist in PCB there are two nets of exactly the same name in the net list for these 14 nets. I had this problem with some bus signals. This was some time ago but I think the problem was that on some sheets the individual nets did not explicitly connect to the bus. Nets were created from the both bus labels and the isolated net labels even though connectivity was the same. IIRC there were two ways to fix it, put the buses on each sheet even if only one signal is used, or add ports and explicitly make the connections on the top level schematic. Brock * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors.
Hi all, I have a layout that is a little different than our norm in terms of size and complexity. This seems to be causing some problems that I don't normally see. I have four schematic pages in a flat hierarchy. I have used nets and ports global, I actually don't have any ports used at all just the netnames. When I run the Update PCB I get errors reported for adding nets that already exist. If I run the update anyway I get multiple occurrences of these nets showing up in the PCB netlist manager. The nets involved are all nets where I have used a netname on one sheet to tie a signal to the intended connection on the other sheet. So yes there are duplicate netnames (the same netname) within the schematics but they are needed to provide connectivity. What is wrong? How can I fix this? The first time that I ran the update, I deleted the offending net duplications from the preview macros window. On that occasion I also got an access violation near the end of the update process. Looking in the PCB file I discover that the initial components have been placed by the update function in the upper right corner as usual. However the components appear to run right off the page past the 100 inch limit of the database. I am not sure if anything might have been dropped because it ran past the 100 inches. So I move the parts down close to my PCB outline and run update again. I get the same duplicated net error but I do see some net connections being made that obviously weren' t made during the first pass. Possibly because of the access violation near the end of the first update? This is not a very large design compared to some you guys work on, is this common behaviour placing parts out past or at least to the 100 inch limit? Is there a chance that something is screwed because of this part loading out to or near the 100 inch limit? I also just tried running update again for a third time. It is still adding 2 more net connections to device pads! Why weren't these added in either of the two previous updates? I am just so leery that something is drastically wrong at the moment and that I can't trust the database. I hope someone has had similar experiences and has an answer or advice. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 certification * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors.
i don't know but i will say that i am very much a latecomer to using update PCB it does seem pretty cool, but i got a few spooky things just like this and went back to the old netlist load the board wasn't huge is there a way to destroy the handles it creates ? (or maybe that doesn't matter) the thought i am trying to promote here is what about going back to the old netlist load? Dennis Saputelli Brad Velander wrote: Hi all, I have a layout that is a little different than our norm in terms of size and complexity. This seems to be causing some problems that I don't normally see. I have four schematic pages in a flat hierarchy. I have used nets and ports global, I actually don't have any ports used at all just the netnames. When I run the Update PCB I get errors reported for adding nets that already exist. If I run the update anyway I get multiple occurrences of these nets showing up in the PCB netlist manager. The nets involved are all nets where I have used a netname on one sheet to tie a signal to the intended connection on the other sheet. So yes there are duplicate netnames (the same netname) within the schematics but they are needed to provide connectivity. What is wrong? How can I fix this? The first time that I ran the update, I deleted the offending net duplications from the preview macros window. On that occasion I also got an access violation near the end of the update process. Looking in the PCB file I discover that the initial components have been placed by the update function in the upper right corner as usual. However the components appear to run right off the page past the 100 inch limit of the database. I am not sure if anything might have been dropped because it ran past the 100 inches. So I move the parts down close to my PCB outline and run update again. I get the same duplicated net error but I do see some net connections being made that obviously weren' t made during the first pass. Possibly because of the access violation near the end of the first update? This is not a very large design compared to some you guys work on, is this common behaviour placing parts out past or at least to the 100 inch limit? Is there a chance that something is screwed because of this part loading out to or near the 100 inch limit? I also just tried running update again for a third time. It is still adding 2 more net connections to device pads! Why weren't these added in either of the two previous updates? I am just so leery that something is drastically wrong at the moment and that I can't trust the database. I hope someone has had similar experiences and has an answer or advice. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 certification -- ___ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors.
On the Update Design form make sure of the following settings: Connectivity should be = Nets and ports global. Append sheet numbers to local nets = unchecked. Assign Net to Connected Copper = checked Descend into Sheet Parts = Checked --- I suspect this may be the offending setting Just a guess. Tom. -Original Message- From: Brad Velander [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 3 October 2002 10:51 To: Protel EDA Forum List Server (E-mail) Subject: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors. Hi all, I have a layout that is a little different than our norm in terms of size and complexity. This seems to be causing some problems that I don't normally see. I have four schematic pages in a flat hierarchy. I have used nets and ports global, I actually don't have any ports used at all just the netnames. When I run the Update PCB I get errors reported for adding nets that already exist. If I run the update anyway I get multiple occurrences of these nets showing up in the PCB netlist manager. The nets involved are all nets where I have used a netname on one sheet to tie a signal to the intended connection on the other sheet. So yes there are duplicate netnames (the same netname) within the schematics but they are needed to provide connectivity. What is wrong? How can I fix this? The first time that I ran the update, I deleted the offending net duplications from the preview macros window. On that occasion I also got an access violation near the end of the update process. Looking in the PCB file I discover that the initial components have been placed by the update function in the upper right corner as usual. However the components appear to run right off the page past the 100 inch limit of the database. I am not sure if anything might have been dropped because it ran past the 100 inches. So I move the parts down close to my PCB outline and run update again. I get the same duplicated net error but I do see some net connections being made that obviously weren' t made during the first pass. Possibly because of the access violation near the end of the first update? This is not a very large design compared to some you guys work on, is this common behaviour placing parts out past or at least to the 100 inch limit? Is there a chance that something is screwed because of this part loading out to or near the 100 inch limit? I also just tried running update again for a third time. It is still adding 2 more net connections to device pads! Why weren't these added in either of the two previous updates? I am just so leery that something is drastically wrong at the moment and that I can't trust the database. I hope someone has had similar experiences and has an answer or advice. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 certification * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors.
Hi Brad, there were cases when I had to update a pcb two or three times before it completed correctly. Don't know why it happened. After that the board was done without any further problems. Regards, Igor -Original Message- From: Brad Velander [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 3 October 2002 10:51 AM To: Protel EDA Forum List Server (E-mail) Subject: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors. Hi all, I have a layout that is a little different than our norm in terms of size and complexity. This seems to be causing some problems that I don't normally see. I have four schematic pages in a flat hierarchy. I have used nets and ports global, I actually don't have any ports used at all just the netnames. When I run the Update PCB I get errors reported for adding nets that already exist. If I run the update anyway I get multiple occurrences of these nets showing up in the PCB netlist manager. The nets involved are all nets where I have used a netname on one sheet to tie a signal to the intended connection on the other sheet. So yes there are duplicate netnames (the same netname) within the schematics but they are needed to provide connectivity. What is wrong? How can I fix this? The first time that I ran the update, I deleted the offending net duplications from the preview macros window. On that occasion I also got an access violation near the end of the update process. Looking in the PCB file I discover that the initial components have been placed by the update function in the upper right corner as usual. However the components appear to run right off the page past the 100 inch limit of the database. I am not sure if anything might have been dropped because it ran past the 100 inches. So I move the parts down close to my PCB outline and run update again. I get the same duplicated net error but I do see some net connections being made that obviously weren' t made during the first pass. Possibly because of the access violation near the end of the first update? This is not a very large design compared to some you guys work on, is this common behaviour placing parts out past or at least to the 100 inch limit? Is there a chance that something is screwed because of this part loading out to or near the 100 inch limit? I also just tried running update again for a third time. It is still adding 2 more net connections to device pads! Why weren't these added in either of the two previous updates? I am just so leery that something is drastically wrong at the moment and that I can't trust the database. I hope someone has had similar experiences and has an answer or advice. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 certification * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors.
Hi Dennis, as for your question, yes you can destroy the handles by saving the PCB as ASCII, exporting, re-importing. Viola, the handles are removed, destroyed, deleted. Delete the other non-ASCII PCB files of course. I haven't tried the netlist load yet, I was trying to find an issue in the schematic end that would correct the problem. Tried several things in the schematic without success. I can't figure out why it is just 14 nets, there are probably 50 nets being used under the exact same conditions as these 14. I have run this about 10 times so far and several 2nd or third updates and the results are very consistent, the very same 14 nets every time. 2nd or 3rd updates do the infamous vacillating the nets back and forth between the duplicate nets upon every successive update. I was about to try the netlist load just as your message came in. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 certification -Original Message- From: Dennis Saputelli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 6:07 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors. i don't know but i will say that i am very much a latecomer to using update PCB it does seem pretty cool, but i got a few spooky things just like this and went back to the old netlist load the board wasn't huge is there a way to destroy the handles it creates ? (or maybe that doesn't matter) the thought i am trying to promote here is what about going back to the old netlist load? Dennis Saputelli * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors.
It has it's problems, usually associated with updating footprints, deleting the old footprint from the pcb first is the best workaround. This is usually caused by replacing a device with a new schematic part and associated footprint that differs in the number of connections (pins/pads) than the replaced part. Updating footprints with the same number of pads does work. I like the synchroniser, but on rare occasions I have found that two passes are required to fully sync with the PCB, unfortunately due to the rarity of theses events I have not worked out the cause yet. I always do an extra pass of Update PCB just to make sure. Not sure about clearing the handles. Perhaps someone else may elucidate further. Tom. -Original Message- From: Dennis Saputelli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 3 October 2002 11:07 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors. i don't know but i will say that i am very much a latecomer to using update PCB it does seem pretty cool, but i got a few spooky things just like this and went back to the old netlist load the board wasn't huge is there a way to destroy the handles it creates ? (or maybe that doesn't matter) the thought i am trying to promote here is what about going back to the old netlist load? Dennis Saputelli Brad Velander wrote: Hi all, I have a layout that is a little different than our norm in terms of size and complexity. This seems to be causing some problems that I don't normally see. I have four schematic pages in a flat hierarchy. I have used nets and ports global, I actually don't have any ports used at all just the netnames. When I run the Update PCB I get errors reported for adding nets that already exist. If I run the update anyway I get multiple occurrences of these nets showing up in the PCB netlist manager. The nets involved are all nets where I have used a netname on one sheet to tie a signal to the intended connection on the other sheet. So yes there are duplicate netnames (the same netname) within the schematics but they are needed to provide connectivity. What is wrong? How can I fix this? The first time that I ran the update, I deleted the offending net duplications from the preview macros window. On that occasion I also got an access violation near the end of the update process. Looking in the PCB file I discover that the initial components have been placed by the update function in the upper right corner as usual. However the components appear to run right off the page past the 100 inch limit of the database. I am not sure if anything might have been dropped because it ran past the 100 inches. So I move the parts down close to my PCB outline and run update again. I get the same duplicated net error but I do see some net connections being made that obviously weren' t made during the first pass. Possibly because of the access violation near the end of the first update? This is not a very large design compared to some you guys work on, is this common behaviour placing parts out past or at least to the 100 inch limit? Is there a chance that something is screwed because of this part loading out to or near the 100 inch limit? I also just tried running update again for a third time. It is still adding 2 more net connections to device pads! Why weren't these added in either of the two previous updates? I am just so leery that something is drastically wrong at the moment and that I can't trust the database. I hope someone has had similar experiences and has an answer or advice. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 certification -- __ _ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors.
Tom, thanks for the reply. I don't think that anything you raise is the issue. Points 1 2 - done, Point three doesn't apply this is the first update to the blank PCB file, Point 4 doesn't apply because I have no sheet parts. If you know or think otherwise then let me know. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 certification -Original Message- From: Thomas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 6:17 PM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors. On the Update Design form make sure of the following settings: Connectivity should be = Nets and ports global. Append sheet numbers to local nets = unchecked. Assign Net to Connected Copper = checked Descend into Sheet Parts = Checked --- I suspect this may be the offending setting Just a guess. Tom. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors.
Hi Brad, I have seen this behaviour before but it was a while ago and I can't remember how I solved or got around it. I do have some thoughts or suggestions that may force a solution... Have you tried changing the net scope to Only ports global or Sheet symbol/Port connection in conjuction with Append sheet numbers to local nets temporarily allowing it to assign nets to everything, and then changing it back to Net labels and ports global as you need to have it. What about temporarily using the largest available schematic workspace and copying all sheets onto the one and netlisting that to see if that fixes the problem? I'm not questioning your ability or experience, but do you have any duplicate designators or the like? I realise this causes a problem different to what you describe but who knows? Cheers, Brendon. -Original Message- From: Brad Velander [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 3 October 2002 10:51 AM To: Protel EDA Forum List Server (E-mail) Subject: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors. Hi all, I have a layout that is a little different than our norm in terms of size and complexity. This seems to be causing some problems that I don't normally see. I have four schematic pages in a flat hierarchy. I have used nets and ports global, I actually don't have any ports used at all just the netnames. When I run the Update PCB I get errors reported for adding nets that already exist. If I run the update anyway I get multiple occurrences of these nets showing up in the PCB netlist manager. The nets involved are all nets where I have used a netname on one sheet to tie a signal to the intended connection on the other sheet. So yes there are duplicate netnames (the same netname) within the schematics but they are needed to provide connectivity. What is wrong? How can I fix this? The first time that I ran the update, I deleted the offending net duplications from the preview macros window. On that occasion I also got an access violation near the end of the update process. Looking in the PCB file I discover that the initial components have been placed by the update function in the upper right corner as usual. However the components appear to run right off the page past the 100 inch limit of the database. I am not sure if anything might have been dropped because it ran past the 100 inches. So I move the parts down close to my PCB outline and run update again. I get the same duplicated net error but I do see some net connections being made that obviously weren' t made during the first pass. Possibly because of the access violation near the end of the first update? This is not a very large design compared to some you guys work on, is this common behaviour placing parts out past or at least to the 100 inch limit? Is there a chance that something is screwed because of this part loading out to or near the 100 inch limit? I also just tried running update again for a third time. It is still adding 2 more net connections to device pads! Why weren't these added in either of the two previous updates? I am just so leery that something is drastically wrong at the moment and that I can't trust the database. I hope someone has had similar experiences and has an answer or advice. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 certification * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors.
Brad, is this problem being exhibited on Protel generated net-names or Brad defined net-names? Regards, Brendon Sent: Thursday, 3 October 2002 10:51 AM To: Protel EDA Forum List Server (E-mail) Subject: [PEDA] P99SE SP6 Problem with Update PCB generating duplicate nets or ot her errors. Hi all, I have a layout that is a little different than our norm in terms of size and complexity. This seems to be causing some problems that I don't normally see. I have four schematic pages in a flat hierarchy. I have used nets and ports global, I actually don't have any ports used at all just the netnames. When I run the Update PCB I get errors reported for adding nets that already exist. If I run the update anyway I get multiple occurrences of these nets showing up in the PCB netlist manager. The nets involved are all nets where I have used a netname on one sheet to tie a signal to the intended connection on the other sheet. So yes there are duplicate netnames (the same netname) within the schematics but they are needed to provide connectivity. What is wrong? How can I fix this? The first time that I ran the update, I deleted the offending net duplications from the preview macros window. On that occasion I also got an access violation near the end of the update process. Looking in the PCB file I discover that the initial components have been placed by the update function in the upper right corner as usual. However the components appear to run right off the page past the 100 inch limit of the database. I am not sure if anything might have been dropped because it ran past the 100 inches. So I move the parts down close to my PCB outline and run update again. I get the same duplicated net error but I do see some net connections being made that obviously weren' t made during the first pass. Possibly because of the access violation near the end of the first update? This is not a very large design compared to some you guys work on, is this common behaviour placing parts out past or at least to the 100 inch limit? Is there a chance that something is screwed because of this part loading out to or near the 100 inch limit? I also just tried running update again for a third time. It is still adding 2 more net connections to device pads! Why weren't these added in either of the two previous updates? I am just so leery that something is drastically wrong at the moment and that I can't trust the database. I hope someone has had similar experiences and has an answer or advice. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 certification * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
