Re: [RBW] Re: Handlebar Suggestions for MTB Build?

[Hugh Smitham]

Hi Bob,

That's funny. The Ala Carte is my stop gap. I've got a 27.5 x 3" custom in
the works. I sold my Atlantis so the Salsa is my adventure bike till I have
my grubby hands on the baby fat. For about $80 shipped I figured it was a
small price for all day comfort. We all have our logic. I have a buyer for
the bike when I'm done with it so no biggy. With these older MTB's it's
really hard to get those bars up. I considered the threadless adapter (Doug
if you read this I really mean no offense) but I thought it looked goofy.
But to be fair the uncut steerer on mine looks goofy too. The upside is the
all the bikepacking bags hide the ungainly steerer height. Lastly, the bike
rides awesome now so it's a win!

Look forward to what you decide.

Cheers,

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep
moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipeedemusings.com/



On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 7:51 PM, kielsun  wrote:

> Folks, thanks for taking the time to respond. I appreciate all of your
> ideas and wish I had the cash to try them all!
>
> The Jones Loop is such a great-looking and seemingly versatile bar, so I'm
> considering a threadless stem adapter, like the VO one, and going that
> route, especially since I know I'd probably love them on my future Troll or
> similar mtb. Hugh--I don't think I'd go so far as to get another fork for
> this bike since it's just a stop-gap, but we'll see.
>
> The Surly Open Bar also looks very promising and comfortable, and I
> wouldn't have any trouble getting it high enough.
>
> Patrick--I tried some moustache bars with a dirt drop stem and I didn't
> like them for the same reason I took them off my Sam: I don't like the
> positioning of the brakes. I feel too splayed out. It's weird, though,
> because I figured they'd be more comfortable on a smaller bike. I guess
> they're just not for me.
>
> RJM and Chris--I have a flat bar lying around and might be able to
> scrounge up a standard mtb bar. I'll give them a shot.
>
> Robert--That trekking bar is really cool. I don't think I'd like to have
> to reach for the brakes/shifters past the end of the stem, though. I think
> I want some sweep.
>
> Thanks again, all.
>
> Bob
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Thoughts on Cambium?

[Joe Bernard]

That's a promising report, Chris. I agree it takes a couple weeks to get 
"worked in" to a new saddle so I'll give it some time. If it doesn't work out 
I'll send it on and buy another B17, I'm more curious than anything. I'll take 
the lighter weight and easier care if I can get it, but B17s are pretty great 
saddles. 

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Re: [RBW] Joe Appaloosa on tour

[René Sterental]

Great photos and updates Val!

René

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016, Valerie Yates  wrote:

> Thanks everyone for the kind words! Yes, Patrick, it was my first tour on
> the Joe. It was great! I toured on a Surly Straggler 650B last year and
> that bike had no life in it. The Joe is fun to ride (and pretty to view)
> and that adds positive energy to the experience.
>
> Richard -- yes, those are Berthoud special small panniers. I am surprised
> by how much I love them. When I first got them, I laughed at how small and
> cute and seemingly pointless they are but they are actually the perfect
> size for a long day trip. I can fit tools, tubes, lunch, a windbreaker, and
> more in them. I use one of the outside pockets for my little camera and the
> other for quick access to lip balm, sunscreen, etc. I do not notice them at
> all in terms of weight or handling and I like how minimal they look on the
> bike. They are not quite big enough for me to use on an overnight (with a
> change of outfit + toiletries) but would be adequate in conjunction with a
> large handlebar bag. My set came with klickfix attachments, which I don't
> generally like for aesthetic reasons, but they work great and enable me to
> quickly pop a bag on and off the rack without any fiddling.
>
> For what it is worth, I expected I would really prefer the Berthoud large
> rack top bag but I have not found any way to use that bag. I can't get it
> on securely. It is too bulky to fit things neatly.It looks awkward when
> empty. I need to assemble a list of bags I don't use for sale or trade . .
> . .
>
> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 5:12:21 PM UTC-6, RichS wrote:
>>
>> In the second to last picture are the panniers the Berthoud special small
>> model? Whatever they are I like them. What are your thoughts?
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Looking for 121mm bb spindle

[mikel66...@juno.com]

you can bring it in a bit but make sure the FD will be able to adjust inward 
enough to drop the chain into the small ring

Los Angeles Post
This Father and Son Took the Same Photo 28 Years in a Row, Last One is ...
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5760cb0235d394b014215st03duc

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thoughts on Cambium?

[Chris Halasz]

Tired of Brooks leather staining pants, I eagerly grabbed a C17 at an REI 
garage sale a year or so ago. 

Sitting on it the first time I was convinced it wasn't going to work, but I 
like to give a new saddle a full two week tryout. I'm not sure of the 
biomechanics, but it seems to take about that long for the overall adjustment 
to the new experience. 

After a week or so, I found the saddle as comfortable, maybe more comfortable, 
as any I've owned. 

I'd like to try a C19 sometime, but have no plans to change what works so well. 
Very comfortable, no stains, great appearance. 

The saddle is slate color, bike is a Brompton, I ride it daily -- about forty 
miles a week. It was well used when I purchased it, and is going strong. I 
weigh about 170lbs. 

Cheers, 

Chris

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Re: [RBW] Re: Looking for 121mm bb spindle

[Mike K.]

Tried measuring a few extra times. Looks to be a little more than 1/4". So 
it seems there's some room to bring the crank closer.

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 9:40:28 PM UTC-5, Mike K. wrote:
>
> Best I can measure with a tape is 1/4" or between 6 and 6.5mm
>

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[RBW] Re: Handlebar Suggestions for MTB Build?

[kielsun]

Folks, thanks for taking the time to respond. I appreciate all of your 
ideas and wish I had the cash to try them all! 

The Jones Loop is such a great-looking and seemingly versatile bar, so I'm 
considering a threadless stem adapter, like the VO one, and going that 
route, especially since I know I'd probably love them on my future Troll or 
similar mtb. Hugh--I don't think I'd go so far as to get another fork for 
this bike since it's just a stop-gap, but we'll see.

The Surly Open Bar also looks very promising and comfortable, and I 
wouldn't have any trouble getting it high enough.

Patrick--I tried some moustache bars with a dirt drop stem and I didn't 
like them for the same reason I took them off my Sam: I don't like the 
positioning of the brakes. I feel too splayed out. It's weird, though, 
because I figured they'd be more comfortable on a smaller bike. I guess 
they're just not for me.

RJM and Chris--I have a flat bar lying around and might be able to scrounge 
up a standard mtb bar. I'll give them a shot.

Robert--That trekking bar is really cool. I don't think I'd like to have to 
reach for the brakes/shifters past the end of the stem, though. I think I 
want some sweep.

Thanks again, all.

Bob

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Re: [RBW] Re: Looking for 121mm bb spindle

[Mike K.]

Best I can measure with a tape is 1/4" or between 6 and 6.5mm

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Re: [RBW] Re: Looking for 121mm bb spindle

[mikel66...@juno.com]

how much space is between the small ring and the chainstay?


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[RBW] Re: Looking for 121mm bb spindle

[Mike K.]

Yeah. It's an MT60 front derailleur. I can manually push it out far enough 
to center over the outer ring. 

When the chain is on the inner ring, I have to adjust the derailleur screw 
quite a bit and the chain almost rubs the cage as though I need to push the 
derailleur further from the seat tube than it can go, which is why my first 
thought is that the bottom bracket spindle is too long.

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[RBW] Re: Looking for 121mm bb spindle

[Joe Bernard]

Can you push the derailer far enough with your hand?

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Re: [RBW] Suspension Losses - Now Confirmed by Other Research

[Jan Heine]

You bring up good points.

1. Higher mass will slow you down climbing, but the question is how much. 
Realistically, the differences are very small. We tested a 650B randonneur 
bike with 42 mm tires against a titanium road bike with 25s. Both were 
excellent bikes, and their speed was the same. Clearly, the difference in 
weight got lost among other, more important factors.

2. Yes, sidewall deformation is an issue - that is the start of the 
sidewall collapse under high cornering loads. That is why you need to run 
slightly higher pressures with supple tires. Even at those higher 
pressures, the supple tires are much faster and more comfortable.

Jan Heine
Editor
Bicycle Quarterly
www.bikequarterly.com

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 2:33:20 PM UTC-7, Lungimsam wrote:
>
> 1. What does the higher mass do in regards to climbing? Help or hinder?
>
> I wonder at what point the mass is nullified by hysteresis, s-losses, and 
> planing, supple tires, etc.? One could do alot of mixed variables tests to 
> see how it all shakes out.
>
> 2. Also, what about tire sidewall deformation under the force of the rim 
> turning?
>
> Wouldn't a supple tire's sidewalls deform more, lagging behind the rim to 
> a point, though the bead stays in place, resulting in slower response and 
> drag? 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[René Sterental]

FWIW, I converted two Rivendell bikes to low trail forks and liked them
better that way, one I sold (Hunqapillar) and the other one I'm keeping
(Atlantis). I preferred their handling vs. the original handling because I
wanted front loads, and in the case of the Atlantis, because it shimmied
for me with a rear load. Now it doesn't.

I love the handling of the Homer and the Betty in their original
geometries, but don't front load them other than a super light load
(wallet, phone, glasses). My upcoming custom is low trail 650b, but not a
Randonneur geometry.

While you can probably get used to anything, it's when you've compared and
liked something more, where the decision to invest to go that way or stay
the way you are comes into play.

You can search the forum for my past lengthy posts if you're interested.

René

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016, jeffrey kane  wrote:

> Reed -- there has been a near endless run of low vs not-low discussions
> here and on the iBob and the 650b list. I feel like I've read them all and
> agonized over the damn concept myself for years. But I've never seen a more
> sensible and succinct assessment of the whole thing than these quickly
> punched out 9 posts above. Bill L nailed it one way, Evan B pretty much
> said what GP himself has been saying forever, which, is you can probably
> get used to anything given some time and Steve P knows his stuff and has
> real experience with some pretty darn nice bikes.
>
> Me, I've got only this to add: having bounced through 5 similar yet
> different 650b rides in the last six years (2 typical trail Rivs, a V/O low
> trail and now 2 Jeff Lyon even lower trail bikes) I'd say that there can be
> some unpredictable bike-to-bike variations in performance that don't just
> fall in line with the "spread sheet" of expectations. Why? I have no idea
> but I have a Saluki that does not play well front loaded and Bleriot that
> does (yet, supposedly they are super close in geo). The V/O worked nicely
> but didn't incite much passion, The 2 Lyon's: one with drops and the other
> with uprights exhibit somewhat different tendencies, which, I suppose,
> speaks to the bar choice and riding position.
>
> I ended up on flexy front loading low-trail rides though ... and I don't
> see myself going back. Maybe I'll go in another direction altogether but
> for now, I couldn't be happier.
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 6:24:31 PM UTC-4, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>>
>> I've been a Rivvy sorta guy for the last ten years, owning several of
>> their bikes and numerous others built up in Riv-inspired ways. Recently
>> I've been reading through back issues of Bicycle Quarterly, and back posts
>> on Jan Heine's blog. It's got me wondering about this whole
>> alternate-universe practical bike thing he describes, which seems to be
>> characterized by low trail steering geometry, flexible frames, and carrying
>> loads up front.
>>
>> I'd love to try it, but such bikes aren't exactly common.
>>
>> Does anyone have experience with both Rivvy (mid-trail, burly rigid
>> frame, carrying stuff all over) and the more French rando / Jan sort of
>> bike? What did you think of each?
>>
>>
>> Reed
>>
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[RBW] Re: Looking for 121mm bb spindle

[Mike K.]

Another possibility: I am using some old Suntour stem-mounted shifters. Is 
it possible they aren't able to pull enough cable to get the derailleur out 
where it needs to go? If I traded them out for newer shifters could that 
make a difference? I don't plan on holding on to this bike for long, so I'm 
okay with used parts. Really just trying to get this thing to shift to the 
big ring.

- Mike

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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa on tour

[Valerie Yates]

Thanks everyone for the kind words! Yes, Patrick, it was my first tour on 
the Joe. It was great! I toured on a Surly Straggler 650B last year and 
that bike had no life in it. The Joe is fun to ride (and pretty to view) 
and that adds positive energy to the experience. 

Richard -- yes, those are Berthoud special small panniers. I am surprised 
by how much I love them. When I first got them, I laughed at how small and 
cute and seemingly pointless they are but they are actually the perfect 
size for a long day trip. I can fit tools, tubes, lunch, a windbreaker, and 
more in them. I use one of the outside pockets for my little camera and the 
other for quick access to lip balm, sunscreen, etc. I do not notice them at 
all in terms of weight or handling and I like how minimal they look on the 
bike. They are not quite big enough for me to use on an overnight (with a 
change of outfit + toiletries) but would be adequate in conjunction with a 
large handlebar bag. My set came with klickfix attachments, which I don't 
generally like for aesthetic reasons, but they work great and enable me to 
quickly pop a bag on and off the rack without any fiddling. 

For what it is worth, I expected I would really prefer the Berthoud large 
rack top bag but I have not found any way to use that bag. I can't get it 
on securely. It is too bulky to fit things neatly.It looks awkward when 
empty. I need to assemble a list of bags I don't use for sale or trade . . 
. .  

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 5:12:21 PM UTC-6, RichS wrote:
>
> In the second to last picture are the panniers the Berthoud special small 
> model? Whatever they are I like them. What are your thoughts?
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[jeffrey kane]

Reed -- there has been a near endless run of low vs not-low discussions 
here and on the iBob and the 650b list. I feel like I've read them all and 
agonized over the damn concept myself for years. But I've never seen a more 
sensible and succinct assessment of the whole thing than these quickly 
punched out 9 posts above. Bill L nailed it one way, Evan B pretty much 
said what GP himself has been saying forever, which, is you can probably 
get used to anything given some time and Steve P knows his stuff and has 
real experience with some pretty darn nice bikes.

Me, I've got only this to add: having bounced through 5 similar yet 
different 650b rides in the last six years (2 typical trail Rivs, a V/O low 
trail and now 2 Jeff Lyon even lower trail bikes) I'd say that there can be 
some unpredictable bike-to-bike variations in performance that don't just 
fall in line with the "spread sheet" of expectations. Why? I have no idea 
but I have a Saluki that does not play well front loaded and Bleriot that 
does (yet, supposedly they are super close in geo). The V/O worked nicely 
but didn't incite much passion, The 2 Lyon's: one with drops and the other 
with uprights exhibit somewhat different tendencies, which, I suppose, 
speaks to the bar choice and riding position. 

I ended up on flexy front loading low-trail rides though ... and I don't 
see myself going back. Maybe I'll go in another direction altogether but 
for now, I couldn't be happier.



On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 6:24:31 PM UTC-4, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>
> I've been a Rivvy sorta guy for the last ten years, owning several of 
> their bikes and numerous others built up in Riv-inspired ways. Recently 
> I've been reading through back issues of Bicycle Quarterly, and back posts 
> on Jan Heine's blog. It's got me wondering about this whole 
> alternate-universe practical bike thing he describes, which seems to be 
> characterized by low trail steering geometry, flexible frames, and carrying 
> loads up front.
>
> I'd love to try it, but such bikes aren't exactly common. 
>
> Does anyone have experience with both Rivvy (mid-trail, burly rigid frame, 
> carrying stuff all over) and the more French rando / Jan sort of bike? What 
> did you think of each?
>
>
> Reed
>

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[RBW] Re: FS- 64cm Wisconsin borne Samuel Hillborne frameset

[ant ritchey]

some one...stop me...please...

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 10:44:18 AM UTC-7, Kainalu wrote:
>
> Hi!
> I've got a 65 Clem coming my way in July and was expecting to be riding 
> this Sam around until then, but then my appendix attacked, so I'm letting 
> it go (my tummy still hurts, doc says absolutely no rolling until July).
> Included in the sale is everything seen in the photos ("SHORT" 
> chainstays!!) minus the wheels & tires. The bottom bracket is brand new 
> super duper Shimano UN55 113mm, the headset is a headset like any other 
> except it has some indexing (it's original to the frame).
> Photos show plenty of nicks and scratches, but nothing that caused any 
> damage (no chainsuck, ever). Truth be told, this frame is arguably better 
> than new! It just got back from a trip to Waterford to get a popped 
> seatstay repaired, they actually are the source of the scratches on the 
> chainstays, but they did a beautiful job of making the bike structurally 
> magnificent so all is forgiven. 
>
> here's photos-
> https://goo.gl/photos/XnXmgmEch5tkDNBQA
>
> All this for $800 + bike flights shipping ($40 when I shipped it to 
> Waterford a couple months ago) 
>
> Thanks a ton
> -Kai
> Brooklyn NY
>

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[RBW] Re: Wald Big Basket + Nitto small front racks

[ant ritchey]

what riv calls the big wald plus marks or mini - fine from my experience.

if you're gonna really push it i highly recommend using compression straps 
or bungees or whatever to triangulate, securing basket to bars.

although this may not be ideal for drop bar use.  works incredibly well on 
albatross.

may sound like a no brainer, but!  make sure your mounting bolts are kept 
tight!

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 11:24:38 AM UTC-7, Minh wrote:
>
> First off, i will not comment on how i secure my basket to my front racks.
>
> Second, is there any guidance (common sense or otherwise) about using the 
> bigger wald basket on the smaller nitto racks (either M12, Nitto Mini, 
> Mark's)?  Should i limit myself to bulky but not heavy loads?  
>
> I find that i'm not using my Big Front Rack as much and would like to 
> switch to a smaller front rack, but not if i will be super-limited in 
> use-cases
>

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Re: [RBW] Digest for rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com - 25 updates in 9 topics

[Mary Gersemalina]

bleep blorp! sent from my phone
On Jun 14, 2016 3:39 PM,  wrote:

> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
> 
>  Google
> Groups
> 
> 
> Topic digest
> View all topics
> 
>
>- Suspension Losses - Now Confirmed by Other Research
><#m_1277912225395663076_group_thread_0> - 12 Updates
>- Wald Big Basket + Nitto small front racks
><#m_1277912225395663076_group_thread_1> - 5 Updates
>- WTB/WTT: Looking for a 46cm Noodle Bar
><#m_1277912225395663076_group_thread_2> - 1 Update
>- Separation anxiety at an all time high!!
><#m_1277912225395663076_group_thread_3> - 1 Update
>- Thoughts on Cambium? <#m_1277912225395663076_group_thread_4> - 2
>Updates
>- Joe Appaloosa on tour <#m_1277912225395663076_group_thread_5> - 1
>Update
>- FS- 64cm Wisconsin borne Samuel Hillborne frameset
><#m_1277912225395663076_group_thread_6> - 1 Update
>- Handlebar Suggestions for MTB Build?
><#m_1277912225395663076_group_thread_7> - 1 Update
>- Noodle bars: Any upsweep on the flats?
><#m_1277912225395663076_group_thread_8> - 1 Update
>
> Suspension Losses - Now Confirmed by Other Research
> 
> Jan Heine : Jun 14 09:51AM -0700
>
> In science, it's important that results are replicable - this means that
> anybody doing the same experiment must get the same results. I was excited
> to learn that recently, Joshua Poertner (formerly of Zipp, now of Silca)
> has replicated our results on tire pressure: Higher tire pressures don't
> make you faster on smooth pavement, and definitely are slower on rough
> surfaces. He apparently used the same rumble strip method as we did when
> we
> first quantified suspension losses.
>
> More about this is here:
>
> https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/06/14/suspension-losses-confirmed/
>
> It's exciting that what used to be highly controversial now is entering
> the
> mainstream. And I want to thank the listmembers who were open to these
> ideas long before anybody else.
>
> Jan Heine
> Editor
> Bicycle Quarterly
> www.bikequarterly.com
> Deacon Patrick : Jun 14 10:19AM -0700
>
> Thank you, Jan! What you said about the vibrations in the body (and thus
> the brain) and your being sore all over after testing, got a big "Yes!"
> from me, as I've found my brain energy is sucked out rapidly with stiffer
> tires.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 10:51:58 AM UTC-6, Jan Heine wrote:
> Shoji Takahashi : Jun 14 11:53AM -0700
>
> The article referenced by Jan features a French-blue Rivendell Road with
> resist nomads:
> http://trstriathlon.com/talking-tires-with-joshua-poertner/
>
> (I think this is David's bike, and I hope he's compensated given the
> reference to photopin license. His Flickr feed shows up as no commercial
> use.)
>
> I like this section (towards bottom of the article):
>
> > stays to hold them? Who is going to manufacture all this stuff, and how
> > will the bike designer, the wheel builder, and the tire maker negotiate
> the
> > new standards?
>
>
> Indeed, who is going to manufacture all this stuff???
>
> shoji
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 12:51:58 PM UTC-4, Jan Heine wrote:
> Peter White : Jun 14 03:19PM -0400
>
> I remember being told this by one of the technical people from Michelin
> some 35 years ago at the east coast trade show - what is now Interbike in
> Las Vegas. They knew back then that very high pressures gave you no
> advantage. So this tendency for tire manufacturers in the past 30 years to
> rate their tires with higher and higher pressures has always seemed odd to
> me. But clearly, the public has been sold on the idea that higher pressure
> is better, to the detriment of ride quality, performance, and the
> durability of rims.
>
>
> --
> Peter White
> Lungimsam : Jun 14 12:51PM -0700
>
> What role does tire pressure and width play in difficulty/ease of tire
> spin up?
> Peter White : Jun 14 03:57PM -0400
>
> Please define spin up?
>
>
> --
> Peter White
> Lungimsam : Jun 14 01:54PM -0700
>
> Spin-up:
> Starting from a stop and getting the bike revved-up to cruising speed
> where one abandons standing on their pedals and takes their seat.
>
> "Spinning-up" the tires/bike from the stop to cruising speed.
> cyclotourist : Jun 14 02:02PM -0700
>
> Hey, that picture does look familiar! Thanks for the heads up, Shoji!
>
> On Tue, Jun 

[RBW] Looking for 121mm bb spindle

[Joe Bernard]

I presume you're looking for an entire BB, but here's a 120 spindle if you need 
it.

http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/bbs.htm

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Re: [RBW] Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[Steve Palincsar]

The MAP is 650Bx42, and a 59 or 60 cm frame depending on how you 
measure.  The VO is 700x32C.  What I think of it is, it's fantastic.  
I'm sure Mitch's 700C randonneurs are as well.  I am happy to have both, 
and would replace either if something terrible happened to it.



On 06/14/2016 08:01 PM, Reed Kennedy wrote:
On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 4:34 PM, Steve Palincsar > wrote:


On 06/14/2016 06:23 PM, Reed Kennedy wrote:

I've been a Rivvy sorta guy for the last ten years, owning
several of their bikes and numerous others built up in
Riv-inspired ways. Recently I've been reading through back
issues of Bicycle Quarterly, and back posts on Jan Heine's
blog. It's got me wondering about this whole
alternate-universe practical bike thing he describes, which
seems to be characterized by low trail steering geometry,
flexible frames, and carrying loads up front.

I'd love to try it, but such bikes aren't exactly common.

Does anyone have experience with both Rivvy (mid-trail, burly
rigid frame, carrying stuff all over) and the more French
rando / Jan sort of bike? What did you think of each?


Yes indeed.  I sold a Rambouillet to get a Johnny Coast-built Velo
Orange Randonneur, and I sold a Saluki to get one of Mitch Pryor's
MAP Randonneurs.  In each case I went from OS Riv tubing and high
trail geometry to standard diameter thinner gauge and low trail
geometry.  I liked the Rivs, but I like the "BQ style" bikes a lot
better.


Great feedback, thanks Steve!

Mind if I ask what you think of the MAP Randonneur, and which wheel 
size yours is in? I've actually found a used Map Randonneur in my size 
and for sale near me. I'm awfully tempted, but had been hoping for a 
650 x 42 wheel and tire, and this one is set up for 700 x 32.





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[RBW] Looking for 121mm bb spindle

[Mike K.]

Hey folks, I'm looking for a 121mm bb spindle, square taper. I have an old 
Hardrock I'm working on and right now it has a 124 on it now, but the front 
derailleur can't reach the outer ring. I've adjusted the screws on the 
derailleur and double and triple checked to make sure I have my shifter 
cable properly tightened, but still no luck. The chain is close to catching 
the ring, but there's just not quite enough to get it there. I'm thinking 
if I bring the crank a little closer to the bb shell, it will catch. I know 
I have the rings will clear the frame, and want to try replacing the 
spindle before replacing the shifters.

If anyone has an extra in their garage, I'd be happy to cover shipping.

Thanks!
Mike in ATX

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Re: [RBW] New bike day! Apppaloosa!

[Reed Kennedy]

Sure thing Patrick. At the moment I've finally managed to patch a hole in
one of the tires and have just gotten the air to stay inside. Current plan
is to test them over the next week and a half and then ride them on the
West Point Inn Riv Ramble if they hold up. Once I get home from that I
should have enough miles on them to form at least an initial opinion. I'll
try to remember to write up some impressions.



Best,
Reed

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 8:29 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I'll be very interested to hear your impressions of the improvement in
> ride between tubed and tubeless. In my very limited experience with 1.35 mm
> Kojaks, going from tubed to tubeless (light but otherwise standard butyl
> tubes) is almost like swapping said Kojaks with tubes for Compass Elk Pass
> extra lights with tubes.
>
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 9:20 AM, Reed Kennedy  wrote:
>
>> Gorgeous bike! And yeah, give the fatties a try. I didn't have much fun
>> in traffic with the heavy 700 x 2.15" Marathons that Riv likes so much, but
>> when I put a set of Schwalbe Big Ones on, wow! They still spin up nice and
>> quick, and I feel like a human hovercraft.
>>
>> Just converted them to tubeless last night, thanks everyone here on the
>> list for advice. We'll see how that works today!
>>
>>
>> Reed
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016, RoadieRyan  wrote:
>>
>>> Congrats -new bike day is the best.  And as someone who went from
>>> 700x38c to 700x47c tires I saw go as fat as you can, its a blast.
>>>
>>> On Monday, June 13, 2016 at 1:37:04 PM UTC-7, Michael Morrissey wrote:


 


 
 I finally got my Appaloosa together!  I'm really enjoying this bike!
 The main thing I love about it is the lower bottom bracket height.  It's so
 stable and comfy.  I built it up with a mish-mash of parts: some new, some
 from my cyclocross bike, some from the ebay, some from the shelves at the
 LBS!  I'm running 35mm tires now because that's what I have, but I'm going
 to go fatter soon!  After wanting a Rivendell for 10 years, I am thrilled
 to have one!

 Parts list:
 Paul neo-retro brakes and paul levers
 Sugino x White Industries cranks
 VP Vice pedals
 Wolf Tooth 94bcd x 32 tooth narrow wide chainring (really low gearing!)
 Sunrace 9 speed thumbshifter
 Nitto dirt drop stem with albatross bars

 m

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>
>
>
> --
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
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> **
> **
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
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>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
>
> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[Reed Kennedy]

Isn't that the truth Bill! Thanks for the advice. I think I'll finally sell
that Madone and aim to train for and do my first brevet on the Hunqapillar.
Then, if I like it, I'll start scheming around a low trail bike for brevets.

Plus, that'll give me some good time to dream about what my
ideal randonneuring bike would be like!


Best,
Reed

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 4:13 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Everything is best served with another bike.  N+1.  Always N+1.  The
> correct question to ask yourself is NOT : "Do I need another bike?"  The
> correct question is : "What should my next bike be?"  :-)
>
> If I had the choice of doing a brevet on a drop-bar Hunqapillar that I
> bought for myself and set up to my liking, or a hand-me-down Madone, I
> would almost certainly choose to do the brevet on the Hunqapillar.
>
> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 4:01:30 PM UTC-7, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>>
>> Thanks very much for the thoughts, Bill! You described exactly the sort
>> of experience I was hoping to hear about.
>>
>> I'm currently considering training for a couple brevets. I've never done
>> one, and it both seems like an interesting challenge and a good training
>> goal. At the moment the two most appropriate (or perhaps I should say least
>> inappropriate) bikes I own for such a thing are a drop bar'd Hunqapillar
>> and an old 2004 Madone race bike that was given to me and then ignored. I'm
>> concerned that the Hunq is overbuilt for randonneuring and that the Madone
>> would simply be unpleasant. But then, I'm also concerned I'm just looking
>> for an excuse to buy another bike!
>>
>> Do you feel randonneuring benefits hugely from a purpose-built bike, or
>> should I just go for it with what I have?
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Reed
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>
>>> Reed asked:
>>>
>>> Does anyone have experience with both Rivvy (mid-trail, burly rigid
>>> frame, carrying stuff all over) and the more French rando / Jan sort of
>>> bike? What did you think of each?
>>>
>>> Yes I do.  I think both are fine.  Some people feel like it's a night
>>> and day kind of difference, and I don't feel that way.  My two low-trail
>>> bikes are both Rawlands.  I have their road model, the Nordavinden, and
>>> their 650b rando model, the Stag.  My Stag is still my primary brevet bike
>>> and it's terrific.  I did a lot of brevets on a 650B A Homer Hilsen before
>>> that and it was great, too, but I felt it was somewhat overbuilt for that
>>> brevet-only use.  Let me know if you want to check out my Nordavinden (it's
>>> a 58-59 Large).  I used that as a platform to just explore the concepts,
>>> and I feel like I've learned what I needed to learn.  Most recently I had
>>> braze-on centerpulls attached to see what the fuss was about.  I'm now
>>> moving my road bike exploration towards contemporary gravel bike concepts.
>>>
>>> I'm a big fan of front loading in general.  I put stuff in saddle bags
>>> only as a last resort.  I think front loading works great for me on high
>>> trail and low trail.  In my experience a low trail bike unloaded is still
>>> fine.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 3:24:31 PM UTC-7, Reed Kennedy wrote:

 I've been a Rivvy sorta guy for the last ten years, owning several of
 their bikes and numerous others built up in Riv-inspired ways. Recently
 I've been reading through back issues of Bicycle Quarterly, and back posts
 on Jan Heine's blog. It's got me wondering about this whole
 alternate-universe practical bike thing he describes, which seems to be
 characterized by low trail steering geometry, flexible frames, and carrying
 loads up front.

 I'd love to try it, but such bikes aren't exactly common.

 Does anyone have experience with both Rivvy (mid-trail, burly rigid
 frame, carrying stuff all over) and the more French rando / Jan sort of
 bike? What did you think of each?


 Reed

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Re: [RBW] Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[Reed Kennedy]

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 4:34 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
>
> On 06/14/2016 06:23 PM, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>
>> I've been a Rivvy sorta guy for the last ten years, owning several of
>> their bikes and numerous others built up in Riv-inspired ways. Recently
>> I've been reading through back issues of Bicycle Quarterly, and back posts
>> on Jan Heine's blog. It's got me wondering about this whole
>> alternate-universe practical bike thing he describes, which seems to be
>> characterized by low trail steering geometry, flexible frames, and carrying
>> loads up front.
>>
>> I'd love to try it, but such bikes aren't exactly common.
>>
>> Does anyone have experience with both Rivvy (mid-trail, burly rigid
>> frame, carrying stuff all over) and the more French rando / Jan sort of
>> bike? What did you think of each?
>>
>
> Yes indeed.  I sold a Rambouillet to get a Johnny Coast-built Velo Orange
> Randonneur, and I sold a Saluki to get one of Mitch Pryor's MAP
> Randonneurs.  In each case I went from OS Riv tubing and high trail
> geometry to standard diameter thinner gauge and low trail geometry.  I
> liked the Rivs, but I like the "BQ style" bikes a lot better.


Great feedback, thanks Steve!

Mind if I ask what you think of the MAP Randonneur, and which wheel size
yours is in? I've actually found a used Map Randonneur in my size and for
sale near me. I'm awfully tempted, but had been hoping for a 650 x 42 wheel
and tire, and this one is set up for 700 x 32.


Best,
Reed


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[RBW] Re: Suspension Losses - Now Confirmed by Other Research

[Evan Baird]

I'm delighted by all the roadies buying 25c tires like they're going to 
have this religions experience or somthing. I just kind of sneer and 
explain that I never ride anything under 38mm.

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[RBW] Re: Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[Evan Baird]

I've been riding back to back rake comparisons for the last 2 years, and 
the conclusion I've come to is you'll probably get used to whatever you 
ride the most. IF you always carry stuff on your bike, and IF you prefer to 
keep it within reach, and IF you need to take your hands off the bars often 
then go for it. That said, I ride my Stag without a handlebar bag and it's 
fine. I ride the high trail bike with a handlebar bag and pannier and it's 
fine. I can ride them both no hands. It is a bit easier with the low trail, 
but there are so many variables that you'd need a ven diagram to quantify 
it all. The one thing that I feel pretty confident about is that I prefer 
the slacker head tube for dirt, regardless of the trail. I can't justify 
that with any data though.

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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa on tour

[Deacon Patrick]

Val,

Sweet! The San Juans are a stunningly beautiful and that is a wonderful and 
challenging route! Well done and what a great (I presume) Inaugural tour.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 8:49:09 AM UTC-6, Valerie Yates wrote:
>
> I just completed a credit card tour with my Joe Appaloosa and wanted to 
> share my experience. I did the San Juan Skyway going clockwise from Durango 
> CO. I loved the low gears, which made climbing easy, and the upright 
> position, from which I could enjoy the spectacular scenery. I swapped the 
> stock saddle, which I like on a different bike, for a Brooks B67. I think I 
> may have preferred my Flyer Imperial on this route for the climbs. I also 
> swapped the very decent stock tires for Marathon Supremes 50-584. I wanted 
> something wide, smooth, and puncture resistant and these performed great on 
> pavement, chipseal, loose gravel, and over bumps and seams in the road and 
> on bridges.  I liked the stock pedals, which were perfectly comfortable 
> over long distances because they were grippy but I could move my feet 
> around as needed. I had front and rear panniers and a front basket for a 
> total of 22 pounds of gear for the week. I didn't even notice the extra 
> weight. The bike was very stable both on slow uphills and fast descents and 
> was very fun to ride because I was so comfortable. I also really loved the 
> German mirror for keeping track of vehicles and riders behind me. The bike 
> performed exactly as I had hoped and I am excited to think about where else 
> I will go with it. 
>
>
> I'd love to hear about trips others have done or plan to do on your Joes. 
> I highly recommend the San Juan Skyway. The views are amazing and the 
> mountain towns are fun to visit. Every overnight stop has its own brewery. 
> . . 
>
> Val in Boulder, CO
>

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Re: [RBW] Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 06/14/2016 06:23 PM, Reed Kennedy wrote:
I've been a Rivvy sorta guy for the last ten years, owning several of 
their bikes and numerous others built up in Riv-inspired ways. 
Recently I've been reading through back issues of Bicycle Quarterly, 
and back posts on Jan Heine's blog. It's got me wondering about this 
whole alternate-universe practical bike thing he describes, which 
seems to be characterized by low trail steering geometry, flexible 
frames, and carrying loads up front.


I'd love to try it, but such bikes aren't exactly common.

Does anyone have experience with both Rivvy (mid-trail, burly rigid 
frame, carrying stuff all over) and the more French rando / Jan sort 
of bike? What did you think of each?





Yes indeed.  I sold a Rambouillet to get a Johnny Coast-built Velo 
Orange Randonneur, and I sold a Saluki to get one of Mitch Pryor's MAP 
Randonneurs.  In each case I went from OS Riv tubing and high trail 
geometry to standard diameter thinner gauge and low trail geometry.  I 
liked the Rivs, but I like the "BQ style" bikes a lot better.


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[RBW] Re: New bike day! Apppaloosa!

[RichS]

Michael, congratulations on your first Riv! Well done! You're gonna love 
it:)

Richard

On Monday, June 13, 2016 at 4:37:04 PM UTC-4, Michael Morrissey wrote:
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
> I finally got my Appaloosa together!  I'm really enjoying this bike!  The 
> main thing I love about it is the lower bottom bracket height.  It's so 
> stable and comfy.  I built it up with a mish-mash of parts: some new, some 
> from my cyclocross bike, some from the ebay, some from the shelves at the 
> LBS!  I'm running 35mm tires now because that's what I have, but I'm going 
> to go fatter soon!  After wanting a Rivendell for 10 years, I am thrilled 
> to have one!
>
> Parts list:
> Paul neo-retro brakes and paul levers
> Sugino x White Industries cranks
> VP Vice pedals
> Wolf Tooth 94bcd x 32 tooth narrow wide chainring (really low gearing!)
> Sunrace 9 speed thumbshifter
> Nitto dirt drop stem with albatross bars
>
> m
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Suspension Losses - Now Confirmed by Other Research

[RichS]

Doug,

Another example displaying the versatility of a Riv!

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 12:51:58 PM UTC-4, Jan Heine wrote:
>
> In science, it's important that results are replicable - this means that 
> anybody doing the same experiment must get the same results. I was excited 
> to learn that recently, Joshua Poertner (formerly of Zipp, now of Silca) 
> has replicated our results on tire pressure: Higher tire pressures don't 
> make you faster on smooth pavement, and definitely are slower on rough 
> surfaces. He apparently used the same rumble strip method as we did when we 
> first quantified suspension losses. 
>
> More about this is here:
>
> https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/06/14/suspension-losses-confirmed/
>
> It's exciting that what used to be highly controversial now is entering 
> the mainstream. And I want to thank the listmembers who were open to these 
> ideas long before anybody else. 
>
> Jan Heine
> Editor
> Bicycle Quarterly
> www.bikequarterly.com
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[Bill Lindsay]

Everything is best served with another bike.  N+1.  Always N+1.  The 
correct question to ask yourself is NOT : "Do I need another bike?"  The 
correct question is : "What should my next bike be?"  :-)

If I had the choice of doing a brevet on a drop-bar Hunqapillar that I 
bought for myself and set up to my liking, or a hand-me-down Madone, I 
would almost certainly choose to do the brevet on the Hunqapillar.  

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 4:01:30 PM UTC-7, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>
> Thanks very much for the thoughts, Bill! You described exactly the sort of 
> experience I was hoping to hear about. 
>
> I'm currently considering training for a couple brevets. I've never done 
> one, and it both seems like an interesting challenge and a good training 
> goal. At the moment the two most appropriate (or perhaps I should say least 
> inappropriate) bikes I own for such a thing are a drop bar'd Hunqapillar 
> and an old 2004 Madone race bike that was given to me and then ignored. I'm 
> concerned that the Hunq is overbuilt for randonneuring and that the Madone 
> would simply be unpleasant. But then, I'm also concerned I'm just looking 
> for an excuse to buy another bike!
>
> Do you feel randonneuring benefits hugely from a purpose-built bike, or 
> should I just go for it with what I have?
>
>
> Best,
> Reed
>
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Bill Lindsay  > wrote:
>
>> Reed asked:
>>
>> Does anyone have experience with both Rivvy (mid-trail, burly rigid 
>> frame, carrying stuff all over) and the more French rando / Jan sort of 
>> bike? What did you think of each?
>>
>> Yes I do.  I think both are fine.  Some people feel like it's a night and 
>> day kind of difference, and I don't feel that way.  My two low-trail bikes 
>> are both Rawlands.  I have their road model, the Nordavinden, and their 
>> 650b rando model, the Stag.  My Stag is still my primary brevet bike and 
>> it's terrific.  I did a lot of brevets on a 650B A Homer Hilsen before that 
>> and it was great, too, but I felt it was somewhat overbuilt for that 
>> brevet-only use.  Let me know if you want to check out my Nordavinden (it's 
>> a 58-59 Large).  I used that as a platform to just explore the concepts, 
>> and I feel like I've learned what I needed to learn.  Most recently I had 
>> braze-on centerpulls attached to see what the fuss was about.  I'm now 
>> moving my road bike exploration towards contemporary gravel bike concepts.  
>>
>> I'm a big fan of front loading in general.  I put stuff in saddle bags 
>> only as a last resort.  I think front loading works great for me on high 
>> trail and low trail.  In my experience a low trail bike unloaded is still 
>> fine.  
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 3:24:31 PM UTC-7, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>>>
>>> I've been a Rivvy sorta guy for the last ten years, owning several of 
>>> their bikes and numerous others built up in Riv-inspired ways. Recently 
>>> I've been reading through back issues of Bicycle Quarterly, and back posts 
>>> on Jan Heine's blog. It's got me wondering about this whole 
>>> alternate-universe practical bike thing he describes, which seems to be 
>>> characterized by low trail steering geometry, flexible frames, and carrying 
>>> loads up front.
>>>
>>> I'd love to try it, but such bikes aren't exactly common. 
>>>
>>> Does anyone have experience with both Rivvy (mid-trail, burly rigid 
>>> frame, carrying stuff all over) and the more French rando / Jan sort of 
>>> bike? What did you think of each?
>>>
>>>
>>> Reed
>>>
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>>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa on tour

[RichS]

Valerie,

Sweet looking Joe App and nice, informative ride report and pics! Looks 
like a great trip. In the second to last picture are the panniers the 
Berthoud special small model? Whatever they are I like them. What are your 
thoughts?

Many thanks!
Richard

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 10:49:09 AM UTC-4, Valerie Yates wrote:
>
> I just completed a credit card tour with my Joe Appaloosa and wanted to 
> share my experience. I did the San Juan Skyway going clockwise from Durango 
> CO. I loved the low gears, which made climbing easy, and the upright 
> position, from which I could enjoy the spectacular scenery. I swapped the 
> stock saddle, which I like on a different bike, for a Brooks B67. I think I 
> may have preferred my Flyer Imperial on this route for the climbs. I also 
> swapped the very decent stock tires for Marathon Supremes 50-584. I wanted 
> something wide, smooth, and puncture resistant and these performed great on 
> pavement, chipseal, loose gravel, and over bumps and seams in the road and 
> on bridges.  I liked the stock pedals, which were perfectly comfortable 
> over long distances because they were grippy but I could move my feet 
> around as needed. I had front and rear panniers and a front basket for a 
> total of 22 pounds of gear for the week. I didn't even notice the extra 
> weight. The bike was very stable both on slow uphills and fast descents and 
> was very fun to ride because I was so comfortable. I also really loved the 
> German mirror for keeping track of vehicles and riders behind me. The bike 
> performed exactly as I had hoped and I am excited to think about where else 
> I will go with it. 
>
>
> I'd love to hear about trips others have done or plan to do on your Joes. 
> I highly recommend the San Juan Skyway. The views are amazing and the 
> mountain towns are fun to visit. Every overnight stop has its own brewery. 
> . . 
>
> Val in Boulder, CO
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[Reed Kennedy]

Thanks very much for the thoughts, Bill! You described exactly the sort of
experience I was hoping to hear about.

I'm currently considering training for a couple brevets. I've never done
one, and it both seems like an interesting challenge and a good training
goal. At the moment the two most appropriate (or perhaps I should say least
inappropriate) bikes I own for such a thing are a drop bar'd Hunqapillar
and an old 2004 Madone race bike that was given to me and then ignored. I'm
concerned that the Hunq is overbuilt for randonneuring and that the Madone
would simply be unpleasant. But then, I'm also concerned I'm just looking
for an excuse to buy another bike!

Do you feel randonneuring benefits hugely from a purpose-built bike, or
should I just go for it with what I have?


Best,
Reed

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Reed asked:
>
> Does anyone have experience with both Rivvy (mid-trail, burly rigid frame,
> carrying stuff all over) and the more French rando / Jan sort of bike? What
> did you think of each?
>
> Yes I do.  I think both are fine.  Some people feel like it's a night and
> day kind of difference, and I don't feel that way.  My two low-trail bikes
> are both Rawlands.  I have their road model, the Nordavinden, and their
> 650b rando model, the Stag.  My Stag is still my primary brevet bike and
> it's terrific.  I did a lot of brevets on a 650B A Homer Hilsen before that
> and it was great, too, but I felt it was somewhat overbuilt for that
> brevet-only use.  Let me know if you want to check out my Nordavinden (it's
> a 58-59 Large).  I used that as a platform to just explore the concepts,
> and I feel like I've learned what I needed to learn.  Most recently I had
> braze-on centerpulls attached to see what the fuss was about.  I'm now
> moving my road bike exploration towards contemporary gravel bike concepts.
>
> I'm a big fan of front loading in general.  I put stuff in saddle bags
> only as a last resort.  I think front loading works great for me on high
> trail and low trail.  In my experience a low trail bike unloaded is still
> fine.
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 3:24:31 PM UTC-7, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>>
>> I've been a Rivvy sorta guy for the last ten years, owning several of
>> their bikes and numerous others built up in Riv-inspired ways. Recently
>> I've been reading through back issues of Bicycle Quarterly, and back posts
>> on Jan Heine's blog. It's got me wondering about this whole
>> alternate-universe practical bike thing he describes, which seems to be
>> characterized by low trail steering geometry, flexible frames, and carrying
>> loads up front.
>>
>> I'd love to try it, but such bikes aren't exactly common.
>>
>> Does anyone have experience with both Rivvy (mid-trail, burly rigid
>> frame, carrying stuff all over) and the more French rando / Jan sort of
>> bike? What did you think of each?
>>
>>
>> Reed
>>
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[RBW] Re: Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[Bill Lindsay]

Reed asked:

Does anyone have experience with both Rivvy (mid-trail, burly rigid frame, 
carrying stuff all over) and the more French rando / Jan sort of bike? What 
did you think of each?

Yes I do.  I think both are fine.  Some people feel like it's a night and 
day kind of difference, and I don't feel that way.  My two low-trail bikes 
are both Rawlands.  I have their road model, the Nordavinden, and their 
650b rando model, the Stag.  My Stag is still my primary brevet bike and 
it's terrific.  I did a lot of brevets on a 650B A Homer Hilsen before that 
and it was great, too, but I felt it was somewhat overbuilt for that 
brevet-only use.  Let me know if you want to check out my Nordavinden (it's 
a 58-59 Large).  I used that as a platform to just explore the concepts, 
and I feel like I've learned what I needed to learn.  Most recently I had 
braze-on centerpulls attached to see what the fuss was about.  I'm now 
moving my road bike exploration towards contemporary gravel bike concepts.  

I'm a big fan of front loading in general.  I put stuff in saddle bags only 
as a last resort.  I think front loading works great for me on high trail 
and low trail.  In my experience a low trail bike unloaded is still fine.  


On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 3:24:31 PM UTC-7, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>
> I've been a Rivvy sorta guy for the last ten years, owning several of 
> their bikes and numerous others built up in Riv-inspired ways. Recently 
> I've been reading through back issues of Bicycle Quarterly, and back posts 
> on Jan Heine's blog. It's got me wondering about this whole 
> alternate-universe practical bike thing he describes, which seems to be 
> characterized by low trail steering geometry, flexible frames, and carrying 
> loads up front.
>
> I'd love to try it, but such bikes aren't exactly common. 
>
> Does anyone have experience with both Rivvy (mid-trail, burly rigid frame, 
> carrying stuff all over) and the more French rando / Jan sort of bike? What 
> did you think of each?
>
>
> Reed
>

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[RBW] Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[Reed Kennedy]

I've been a Rivvy sorta guy for the last ten years, owning several of their
bikes and numerous others built up in Riv-inspired ways. Recently I've been
reading through back issues of Bicycle Quarterly, and back posts on Jan
Heine's blog. It's got me wondering about this whole alternate-universe
practical bike thing he describes, which seems to be characterized by low
trail steering geometry, flexible frames, and carrying loads up front.

I'd love to try it, but such bikes aren't exactly common.

Does anyone have experience with both Rivvy (mid-trail, burly rigid frame,
carrying stuff all over) and the more French rando / Jan sort of bike? What
did you think of each?


Reed

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thoughts on Cambium?

[Reed Kennedy]

Sounds like a plan. Thanks again to Jeff for the generous experiment!  And
Joe, if you do keep it, all I ask is a detailed review!


Best,
Reed

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 12:36 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> I'll make sure it gets to Reed if I don't end up making a 'buy' deal with
> Jeff first. Thanks for the road test!
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Suspension Losses - Now Confirmed by Other Research

[dougP]

Kinda funny when you think about a Rivendell photo appearing on a triathlon 
blog.  Next we'll see moustache bars replacing aeros.  :-)

dougP

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 2:07:19 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> He links to the original. A heads up would have been polite I suppose.
>
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 2:03 PM, cyclotourist  > wrote:
>
>> This would be the original image: 
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/8622476729 
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 11:53 AM, Shoji Takahashi > > wrote:
>>
>>> The article referenced by Jan features a French-blue Rivendell Road with 
>>> resist nomads:
>>> http://trstriathlon.com/talking-tires-with-joshua-poertner/
>>>
>>> (I think this is David's bike, and I hope he's compensated given the 
>>> reference to photopin license. His Flickr feed shows up as no commercial 
>>> use.)
>>>
>>> I like this section (towards bottom of the article):
>>>
 If wider is better, is a lot wider a lot better? And if a wider tire is 
 what the world needs, then do we need a wider wheel to hold it? More 
 accurately do we need wider wheels, wider forks, and wider chain and seat 
 stays to hold them? Who is going to manufacture all this stuff, and how 
 will the bike designer, the wheel builder, and the tire maker negotiate 
 the 
 new standards?
>>>
>>>
>>> Indeed, who is going to manufacture all this stuff???
>>>
>>> shoji
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 12:51:58 PM UTC-4, Jan Heine wrote:

 In science, it's important that results are replicable - this means 
 that anybody doing the same experiment must get the same results. I was 
 excited to learn that recently, Joshua Poertner (formerly of Zipp, now of 
 Silca) has replicated our results on tire pressure: Higher tire pressures 
 don't make you faster on smooth pavement, and definitely are slower on 
 rough surfaces. He apparently used the same rumble strip method as we did 
 when we first quantified suspension losses. 

 More about this is here:

 https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/06/14/suspension-losses-confirmed/

 It's exciting that what used to be highly controversial now is entering 
 the mainstream. And I want to thank the listmembers who were open to these 
 ideas long before anybody else. 

 Jan Heine
 Editor
 Bicycle Quarterly
 www.bikequarterly.com

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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Cheers,
>> David
>>
>> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>>
>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Cheers,
> David
>
> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: WTB/WTT: Looking for a 46cm Noodle Bar

['jinxed' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Jack. I have one in excellent condition. Would $30 + shipping work? If so 
drop a line: hbclick at yahoo.com

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 2:31:39 PM UTC-6, Jack Barnes wrote:
>
> Like the title says, looking to buy a 46cm Nitto Noodle H-Bar. 
>
> I have too many bars already to justify a brand-spankin-new H-Bar, without 
> checking here first.
>
> I can trade either a VO Rando Bar 
> (48cm) 
> or a Mark's Bar  (46cm). Both 
> are for 26.0 clamps. Plus some cash going your way if it doesn't seem like 
> a straight trade.
>
> Cheers,
> Jack B. in PDX
>

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[RBW] Re: Handlebar Suggestions for MTB Build?

[Robert Liebermann]

I'm very loving butterfly bars on my 84 trek 830. 


http://hujev.net/image/med/700_4151.jpg  





(One drawback - no easy mirror location: and I don't like that s*Shh*s*Ha*aA
*A*kkK*k*y kraut mirror!)




Great for town, road, trail, etc. Big! Lots of hand positions (sides for 
torquing/climbing, front for coasting, back for 'just going along', etc. 
More pix and justifications here: http://rjl.us/velo/trek830-1.htm 

I still like randonneur bars on my touring bike (for now), but these 
trekker/butterfly bars are the greatest. 

Various variants from variable makers (Nitto, Humpbert, Modolo, Kalloy, 
etc. etc.) with small differences in shape, angle, etc. 

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[RBW] Re: Wald Big Basket + Nitto small front racks

[Avery Wilson]

Picture for reference:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BGpqSWXTfyF/

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[RBW] Re: Thoughts on Cambium?

[rodo...@verizon.net]

I tried one and never made friends and have moved over to my new comfy Selle 
Anatomica. All the best.

Roderick

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[RBW] Re: Wald Big Basket + Nitto small front racks

[Avery Wilson]

I tried this and wasn't really comfortable with the flex, but that's a matter 
of personal opinion. I now use a Surly front rack with my large Wald, and it's 
perfect. The outer rails of the platform on the surly rack line up perfectly 
with the thicker wires of the Wald 139. Fortuitous. :) 

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[RBW] Re: Wald Big Basket + Nitto small front racks

[Brad]

On my Quickbeam, I use a large wald basket on a Nitto Mini (32F). I trimmed 
the rack down (clip off the top rim and fold the vertical pieces down) so 
that it cleared my handlebars. I use a platrack like Leslie, but I don't 
use the supports. Even the platform makes a big difference in how stiff the 
basket is. I found the basket/rack combo to be a little bouncy without the 
platrack.  I put a LOT of crap in the rack for short trips from the grocery 
store and haven't had any problems, with either handling or anything 
breaking. If I was worried, I'd carry a strap to put some of the load on my 
handlebars, like Grant has suggested on the Riv site (somewhere).

Have said all that, I bought a Haulin Colin rack for my new bike and it's 
REALLY solid with a basket.

Brad P.
Queens



On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 2:24:38 PM UTC-4, Minh wrote:
>
> First off, i will not comment on how i secure my basket to my front racks.
>
> Second, is there any guidance (common sense or otherwise) about using the 
> bigger wald basket on the smaller nitto racks (either M12, Nitto Mini, 
> Mark's)?  Should i limit myself to bulky but not heavy loads?  
>
> I find that i'm not using my Big Front Rack as much and would like to 
> switch to a smaller front rack, but not if i will be super-limited in 
> use-cases
>

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Re: [RBW] Suspension Losses - Now Confirmed by Other Research

[Lungimsam]

1. What does the higher mass do in regards to climbing? Help or hinder?

I wonder at what point the mass is nullified by hysteresis, s-losses, and 
planing, supple tires, etc.? One could do alot of mixed variables tests to see 
how it all shakes out.

2. Also, what about tire sidewall deformation under the force of the rim 
turning?

Wouldn't a supple tire's sidewalls deform more, lagging behind the rim to a 
point, though the bead stays in place, resulting in slower response and drag? 

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Re: [RBW] Suspension Losses - Now Confirmed by Other Research

[Peter White]

Ah! The larger tire has more mass, so it would spin up slower. Other than
that, I'm not qualified to give an opinion.

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Lungimsam  wrote:

> Spin-up:
> Starting from a stop and getting the bike revved-up to cruising speed
> where one abandons standing on their pedals and takes their seat.
>
> "Spinning-up" the tires/bike from the stop to cruising speed.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Suspension Losses - Now Confirmed by Other Research

[cyclotourist]

He links to the original. A heads up would have been polite I suppose.

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 2:03 PM, cyclotourist 
wrote:

> This would be the original image:
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/8622476729
>
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 11:53 AM, Shoji Takahashi <
> shoji.takaha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The article referenced by Jan features a French-blue Rivendell Road with
>> resist nomads:
>> http://trstriathlon.com/talking-tires-with-joshua-poertner/
>>
>> (I think this is David's bike, and I hope he's compensated given the
>> reference to photopin license. His Flickr feed shows up as no commercial
>> use.)
>>
>> I like this section (towards bottom of the article):
>>
>>> If wider is better, is a lot wider a lot better? And if a wider tire is
>>> what the world needs, then do we need a wider wheel to hold it? More
>>> accurately do we need wider wheels, wider forks, and wider chain and seat
>>> stays to hold them? Who is going to manufacture all this stuff, and how
>>> will the bike designer, the wheel builder, and the tire maker negotiate the
>>> new standards?
>>
>>
>> Indeed, who is going to manufacture all this stuff???
>>
>> shoji
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 12:51:58 PM UTC-4, Jan Heine wrote:
>>>
>>> In science, it's important that results are replicable - this means that
>>> anybody doing the same experiment must get the same results. I was excited
>>> to learn that recently, Joshua Poertner (formerly of Zipp, now of Silca)
>>> has replicated our results on tire pressure: Higher tire pressures don't
>>> make you faster on smooth pavement, and definitely are slower on rough
>>> surfaces. He apparently used the same rumble strip method as we did when we
>>> first quantified suspension losses.
>>>
>>> More about this is here:
>>>
>>> https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/06/14/suspension-losses-confirmed/
>>>
>>> It's exciting that what used to be highly controversial now is entering
>>> the mainstream. And I want to thank the listmembers who were open to these
>>> ideas long before anybody else.
>>>
>>> Jan Heine
>>> Editor
>>> Bicycle Quarterly
>>> www.bikequarterly.com
>>>
>> --
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> David
>
> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>
>
>
>


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Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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[RBW] Re: Wald Big Basket + Nitto small front racks

[Jack Barnes]

I used a large Wald on a Mark's Rack for awhile, secured w/ loads of 
zipties. I had the same concerns initially, but it worked fine for moderate 
loads. 

I used the Lindsay method for modifying the Wald basket, which makes the 
basket a bit shallower, which means you probably won't overload it.



On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 1:37:44 PM UTC-7, Leslie wrote:
>
> FWIW, I use a Platrack on top of my rack, to which the basket is then 
> attached, giving a better platform.
>
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/leslie_bright/7729133174/in/album-72157623199721925/
>  
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/leslie_bright/22755349636/in/album-72157623199721925/
>  
>
> I would suggest locating a Platrack...
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 2:24:38 PM UTC-4, Minh wrote:
>>
>> First off, i will not comment on how i secure my basket to my front racks.
>>
>> Second, is there any guidance (common sense or otherwise) about using the 
>> bigger wald basket on the smaller nitto racks (either M12, Nitto Mini, 
>> Mark's)?  Should i limit myself to bulky but not heavy loads?  
>>
>> I find that i'm not using my Big Front Rack as much and would like to 
>> switch to a smaller front rack, but not if i will be super-limited in 
>> use-cases
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Suspension Losses - Now Confirmed by Other Research

[cyclotourist]

This would be the original image:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/8622476729

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 11:53 AM, Shoji Takahashi  wrote:

> The article referenced by Jan features a French-blue Rivendell Road with
> resist nomads:
> http://trstriathlon.com/talking-tires-with-joshua-poertner/
>
> (I think this is David's bike, and I hope he's compensated given the
> reference to photopin license. His Flickr feed shows up as no commercial
> use.)
>
> I like this section (towards bottom of the article):
>
>> If wider is better, is a lot wider a lot better? And if a wider tire is
>> what the world needs, then do we need a wider wheel to hold it? More
>> accurately do we need wider wheels, wider forks, and wider chain and seat
>> stays to hold them? Who is going to manufacture all this stuff, and how
>> will the bike designer, the wheel builder, and the tire maker negotiate the
>> new standards?
>
>
> Indeed, who is going to manufacture all this stuff???
>
> shoji
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 12:51:58 PM UTC-4, Jan Heine wrote:
>>
>> In science, it's important that results are replicable - this means that
>> anybody doing the same experiment must get the same results. I was excited
>> to learn that recently, Joshua Poertner (formerly of Zipp, now of Silca)
>> has replicated our results on tire pressure: Higher tire pressures don't
>> make you faster on smooth pavement, and definitely are slower on rough
>> surfaces. He apparently used the same rumble strip method as we did when we
>> first quantified suspension losses.
>>
>> More about this is here:
>>
>> https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/06/14/suspension-losses-confirmed/
>>
>> It's exciting that what used to be highly controversial now is entering
>> the mainstream. And I want to thank the listmembers who were open to these
>> ideas long before anybody else.
>>
>> Jan Heine
>> Editor
>> Bicycle Quarterly
>> www.bikequarterly.com
>>
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Cheers,
David

Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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Re: [RBW] Re: Suspension Losses - Now Confirmed by Other Research

[cyclotourist]

Hey, that picture does look familiar! Thanks for the heads up, Shoji!

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 11:53 AM, Shoji Takahashi  wrote:

> The article referenced by Jan features a French-blue Rivendell Road with
> resist nomads:
> http://trstriathlon.com/talking-tires-with-joshua-poertner/
>
> (I think this is David's bike, and I hope he's compensated given the
> reference to photopin license. His Flickr feed shows up as no commercial
> use.)
>
> I like this section (towards bottom of the article):
>
>> If wider is better, is a lot wider a lot better? And if a wider tire is
>> what the world needs, then do we need a wider wheel to hold it? More
>> accurately do we need wider wheels, wider forks, and wider chain and seat
>> stays to hold them? Who is going to manufacture all this stuff, and how
>> will the bike designer, the wheel builder, and the tire maker negotiate the
>> new standards?
>
>
> Indeed, who is going to manufacture all this stuff???
>
> shoji
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 12:51:58 PM UTC-4, Jan Heine wrote:
>>
>> In science, it's important that results are replicable - this means that
>> anybody doing the same experiment must get the same results. I was excited
>> to learn that recently, Joshua Poertner (formerly of Zipp, now of Silca)
>> has replicated our results on tire pressure: Higher tire pressures don't
>> make you faster on smooth pavement, and definitely are slower on rough
>> surfaces. He apparently used the same rumble strip method as we did when we
>> first quantified suspension losses.
>>
>> More about this is here:
>>
>> https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/06/14/suspension-losses-confirmed/
>>
>> It's exciting that what used to be highly controversial now is entering
>> the mainstream. And I want to thank the listmembers who were open to these
>> ideas long before anybody else.
>>
>> Jan Heine
>> Editor
>> Bicycle Quarterly
>> www.bikequarterly.com
>>
> --
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>



-- 
Cheers,
David

Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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Re: [RBW] Suspension Losses - Now Confirmed by Other Research

[Lungimsam]

Spin-up:
Starting from a stop and getting the bike revved-up to cruising speed where one 
abandons standing on their pedals and takes their seat.

"Spinning-up" the tires/bike from the stop to cruising speed.

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[RBW] Re: Wald Big Basket + Nitto small front racks

[Leslie]

FWIW, I use a Platrack on top of my rack, to which the basket is then 
attached, giving a better platform.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/leslie_bright/7729133174/in/album-72157623199721925/
 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/leslie_bright/22755349636/in/album-72157623199721925/
 


I would suggest locating a Platrack...


On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 2:24:38 PM UTC-4, Minh wrote:
>
> First off, i will not comment on how i secure my basket to my front racks.
>
> Second, is there any guidance (common sense or otherwise) about using the 
> bigger wald basket on the smaller nitto racks (either M12, Nitto Mini, 
> Mark's)?  Should i limit myself to bulky but not heavy loads?  
>
> I find that i'm not using my Big Front Rack as much and would like to 
> switch to a smaller front rack, but not if i will be super-limited in 
> use-cases
>

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[RBW] Re: Wald Big Basket + Nitto small front racks

[Bill Lindsay]

It is my opinion that an arbitrarily small support rack for a really large 
Wald basket will be fine.  The failure mode you might experience if you 
load the basket too much will be sag.  The unsupported parts of the basket 
will bend and droop.  This is why some folks recommend a real porteur style 
rack because it supports the basket closer to the perimeter, mitigating the 
risk of droop.  Even if you do bend your basket, that's not a catastrophic 
failure mode (thank you steel).  If you ask basket beaters like Manny, it's 
not even a failure.  It's character!

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 11:24:38 AM UTC-7, Minh wrote:
>
> First off, i will not comment on how i secure my basket to my front racks.
>
> Second, is there any guidance (common sense or otherwise) about using the 
> bigger wald basket on the smaller nitto racks (either M12, Nitto Mini, 
> Mark's)?  Should i limit myself to bulky but not heavy loads?  
>
> I find that i'm not using my Big Front Rack as much and would like to 
> switch to a smaller front rack, but not if i will be super-limited in 
> use-cases
>

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[RBW] WTB/WTT: Looking for a 46cm Noodle Bar

[Jack Barnes]

Like the title says, looking to buy a 46cm Nitto Noodle H-Bar. 

I have too many bars already to justify a brand-spankin-new H-Bar, without 
checking here first.

I can trade either a VO Rando Bar 
(48cm) 
or a Mark's Bar  (46cm). Both are 
for 26.0 clamps. Plus some cash going your way if it doesn't seem like a 
straight trade.

Cheers,
Jack B. in PDX

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Re: [RBW] Re: Separation anxiety at an all time high!!

[masmojo]

I got a Bosco not being used, but both sets of Albas are mounted on bikes.  You 
know honestly the aluminum ones are fractionally lighter, but I like my steel 
ones better. 

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Re: [RBW] Suspension Losses - Now Confirmed by Other Research

[Peter White]

Please define spin up?

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Lungimsam  wrote:

> What role does tire pressure and width play in difficulty/ease of tire
> spin up?
>
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Re: [RBW] Suspension Losses - Now Confirmed by Other Research

[Lungimsam]

What role does tire pressure and width play in difficulty/ease of tire spin up?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thoughts on Cambium?

[Joe Bernard]

I'll make sure it gets to Reed if I don't end up making a 'buy' deal with Jeff 
first. Thanks for the road test!

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Re: [RBW] Suspension Losses - Now Confirmed by Other Research

[Peter White]

I remember being told this by one of the technical people from Michelin
some 35 years ago at the east coast trade show - what is now Interbike in
Las Vegas. They knew back then that very high pressures gave you no
advantage. So this tendency for tire manufacturers in the past 30 years to
rate their tires with higher and higher pressures has always seemed odd to
me. But clearly, the public has been sold on the idea that higher pressure
is better, to the detriment of ride quality, performance, and the
durability of rims.

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Jan Heine  wrote:

> In science, it's important that results are replicable - this means that
> anybody doing the same experiment must get the same results. I was excited
> to learn that recently, Joshua Poertner (formerly of Zipp, now of Silca)
> has replicated our results on tire pressure: Higher tire pressures don't
> make you faster on smooth pavement, and definitely are slower on rough
> surfaces. He apparently used the same rumble strip method as we did when we
> first quantified suspension losses.
>
> More about this is here:
>
> https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/06/14/suspension-losses-confirmed/
>
> It's exciting that what used to be highly controversial now is entering
> the mainstream. And I want to thank the listmembers who were open to these
> ideas long before anybody else.
>
> Jan Heine
> Editor
> Bicycle Quarterly
> www.bikequarterly.com
>
> --
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[RBW] Wald Big Basket + Nitto small front racks

[Howard Hatten]

I used a large wald attached to a nitto mini on my recent trip from Pittsburg 
to DC. Zip ties. I have drop bars and the only problem I had was a shimmy when 
I rode hands on the interrupters. With hands on the hoods it rode fine. I 
limited my weight to 10 lbs or less. I think if I was using one of the upright 
type bars there would have been no problem. On an Atlantis. 

Howard
Livonia Mi

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[RBW] Re: Suspension Losses - Now Confirmed by Other Research

[Shoji Takahashi]

The article referenced by Jan features a French-blue Rivendell Road with 
resist nomads:
http://trstriathlon.com/talking-tires-with-joshua-poertner/

(I think this is David's bike, and I hope he's compensated given the 
reference to photopin license. His Flickr feed shows up as no commercial 
use.)

I like this section (towards bottom of the article):

> If wider is better, is a lot wider a lot better? And if a wider tire is 
> what the world needs, then do we need a wider wheel to hold it? More 
> accurately do we need wider wheels, wider forks, and wider chain and seat 
> stays to hold them? Who is going to manufacture all this stuff, and how 
> will the bike designer, the wheel builder, and the tire maker negotiate the 
> new standards?


Indeed, who is going to manufacture all this stuff???

shoji





On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 12:51:58 PM UTC-4, Jan Heine wrote:
>
> In science, it's important that results are replicable - this means that 
> anybody doing the same experiment must get the same results. I was excited 
> to learn that recently, Joshua Poertner (formerly of Zipp, now of Silca) 
> has replicated our results on tire pressure: Higher tire pressures don't 
> make you faster on smooth pavement, and definitely are slower on rough 
> surfaces. He apparently used the same rumble strip method as we did when we 
> first quantified suspension losses. 
>
> More about this is here:
>
> https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/06/14/suspension-losses-confirmed/
>
> It's exciting that what used to be highly controversial now is entering 
> the mainstream. And I want to thank the listmembers who were open to these 
> ideas long before anybody else. 
>
> Jan Heine
> Editor
> Bicycle Quarterly
> www.bikequarterly.com
>

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[RBW] Wald Big Basket + Nitto small front racks

[Minh]

First off, i will not comment on how i secure my basket to my front racks.

Second, is there any guidance (common sense or otherwise) about using the 
bigger wald basket on the smaller nitto racks (either M12, Nitto Mini, 
Mark's)?  Should i limit myself to bulky but not heavy loads?  

I find that i'm not using my Big Front Rack as much and would like to 
switch to a smaller front rack, but not if i will be super-limited in 
use-cases

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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa on tour

[Shoji Takahashi]

Great pics, Val. Still smiling after climbing those hills-- says a lot!

tailwinds, shoji



On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 11:42:09 AM UTC-4, Valerie Yates wrote:
>
> I see what you are saying. :)  It does feel rather like a dream. Here are 
> a few pics that my trip-mates took and shared.  I plan to assemble my 
> photos in an album in the next few days or so and will include a link.
>
>
> Lizard Head Pass:
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Bike path into Telluride:
>
>
>
> 
>
> Red Mountain Pass:
>
>
> 
>
>
> Heading to Molas Pass:
>
>
>
> 
>  
> 
>
>
> Patrick -- before I switched my tires over to the Supremes, I had Big Bens 
> on it and I rode it up and over a pretty rugged /rutted jeep trail in Gold 
> Hill (the Switzerland Trail, Boulder CO). I am generally a pretty timid 
> mountain biker and was so surprised at how much I enjoyed the trail on that 
> bike. I felt really secure and it was easy to handle and loads of fun.
>
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> Is that too many pictures? Sorry if I overloaded anyone's data plan. I 
> will plan to create an album next time. 
>
>
> Val in Boulder CO
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] FS- 64cm Wisconsin borne Samuel Hillborne frameset

[Kainalu]

Hi!
I've got a 65 Clem coming my way in July and was expecting to be riding 
this Sam around until then, but then my appendix attacked, so I'm letting 
it go (my tummy still hurts, doc says absolutely no rolling until July).
Included in the sale is everything seen in the photos ("SHORT" 
chainstays!!) minus the wheels & tires. The bottom bracket is brand new 
super duper Shimano UN55 113mm, the headset is a headset like any other 
except it has some indexing (it's original to the frame).
Photos show plenty of nicks and scratches, but nothing that caused any 
damage (no chainsuck, ever). Truth be told, this frame is arguably better 
than new! It just got back from a trip to Waterford to get a popped 
seatstay repaired, they actually are the source of the scratches on the 
chainstays, but they did a beautiful job of making the bike structurally 
magnificent so all is forgiven. 

here's photos-
https://goo.gl/photos/XnXmgmEch5tkDNBQA

All this for $800 + bike flights shipping ($40 when I shipped it to 
Waterford a couple months ago) 

Thanks a ton
-Kai
Brooklyn NY

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[RBW] Re: Suspension Losses - Now Confirmed by Other Research

[Deacon Patrick]

Thank you, Jan! What you said about the vibrations in the body (and thus 
the brain) and your being sore all over after testing, got a big "Yes!" 
from me, as I've found my brain energy is sucked out rapidly with stiffer 
tires.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 10:51:58 AM UTC-6, Jan Heine wrote:
>
> In science, it's important that results are replicable - this means that 
> anybody doing the same experiment must get the same results. I was excited 
> to learn that recently, Joshua Poertner (formerly of Zipp, now of Silca) 
> has replicated our results on tire pressure: Higher tire pressures don't 
> make you faster on smooth pavement, and definitely are slower on rough 
> surfaces. He apparently used the same rumble strip method as we did when we 
> first quantified suspension losses. 
>
> More about this is here:
>
> https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/06/14/suspension-losses-confirmed/
>
> It's exciting that what used to be highly controversial now is entering 
> the mainstream. And I want to thank the listmembers who were open to these 
> ideas long before anybody else. 
>
> Jan Heine
> Editor
> Bicycle Quarterly
> www.bikequarterly.com
>

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[RBW] Re: Handlebar Suggestions for MTB Build?

[RJM]

For trail I would go with a flat bar, maybe stick those little bar ends on. 
I did a 6 hour MTB race and I rode a flat bar and the only thing I wish I 
added was those ergo bar end things where you can just grip on the end of 
the bar. I grip there now just using the end of the bar but those barends 
would help. I'm not talking about the old school ones that curve forward of 
the bar, just the ones that are a little nub looking thing. Ergo grips help 
too, but I use some wide raceface grips, which work great. My hands and 
arms never really hurt much on that ridenow the legs, that's a whole 
'nudder story. 

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 7:36:35 AM UTC-5, kielsun wrote:
>
> I hesitated posting this here, but it's definitely a Riv-inspired 
> conundrum. I'm building up a late 80s Rockhopper and having trouble finding 
> the right handlebar setup. It will primarily be a trail and off-road 
> camping bike with knobbies. I have my Sam for road riding and don't want 
> much overlap between the two.
>
> The frame is borderline too small for me. It's an 18" and I would probably 
> benefit from a 19-19.5", but it should work fine once it's dialed, and it's 
> also just a stop-gap until I can save up for a Surly Troll frameset or 
> something similar. 
>
> Riv Content: I want it to be comfortable (but still nimble)--bars at 
> saddle height!
>
> I've considered going with a standard Technomic and Albas, dirt drop with 
> straight-ish/mountain riser bars like the Soma Clarence, or even trying a 
> threadless conversion stem with drop-style bars. I have cockpit parts for 
> any setup: MTB levers and Deore thumb shifters and aero levers and Ultegra 
> bar-ends. 
>
> I've already tried a dirt drop stem with moustache bars. This created too 
> much reach because of the bar profile and the non-relaxed geometry of the 
> bike. Anything that I should consider that I'm missing?
>
> I welcome any and all advice based on previous builds or experience. I'm 
> pretty new at working on bikes, so you won't offend me with newbie advice. 
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Bob
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thoughts on Cambium?

[Jeff Lesperance]

I'll be sending my Cambium C17 out to Joe. I'll ask when he's done with it,
to make it available to Reed if he wants to try it, and so on and so forth.

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 12:12 PM, Justin August 
wrote:

>
> 
>
>
> On Monday, June 13, 2016 at 10:58:06 PM UTC-7, Manuel Acosta wrote:
>>
>> I bent mine already.
>>
>> https://flic.kr/p/H7ww3z
>>
>>
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[RBW] Suspension Losses - Now Confirmed by Other Research

[Jan Heine]

In science, it's important that results are replicable - this means that 
anybody doing the same experiment must get the same results. I was excited 
to learn that recently, Joshua Poertner (formerly of Zipp, now of Silca) 
has replicated our results on tire pressure: Higher tire pressures don't 
make you faster on smooth pavement, and definitely are slower on rough 
surfaces. He apparently used the same rumble strip method as we did when we 
first quantified suspension losses. 

More about this is here:

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/06/14/suspension-losses-confirmed/

It's exciting that what used to be highly controversial now is entering the 
mainstream. And I want to thank the listmembers who were open to these 
ideas long before anybody else. 

Jan Heine
Editor
Bicycle Quarterly
www.bikequarterly.com

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Re: [RBW] Noodle bars: Any upsweep on the flats?

[Joe Bernard]

Sorry, Jack, those Noodles left on a Bridgestone RB-1 many years ago. I don't 
ride far/hard enough to make road bikes with drops work for me. I'm not really 
a cyclist, I'm more of a "ride arounder" ;-)

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[RBW] Re: Handlebar Suggestions for MTB Build?

[Hugh Smitham]

I'm using the Jones bars on my 1995 Salsa Ala Carte. I really like them. 
One issue I'll mention, getting the bars up high enough were a challenge. I 
had a judy xc rockshox and the steerer was cut. I asked the forum where I 
could get a 1" threadless rigid fork? It was Joe Bunik that directed me to 
Bikeman  which made it possible 
to get the bars up high enough. FYI I tried other MTB bars before going 
with the jones bars and I just didn't like them as much as the Jones bars.

Here's a picture 
 
of the final.

Good luck on your project.

~Hugh
  Los Angeles, CA




On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 5:36:35 AM UTC-7, kielsun wrote:
>
> I hesitated posting this here, but it's definitely a Riv-inspired 
> conundrum. I'm building up a late 80s Rockhopper and having trouble finding 
> the right handlebar setup. It will primarily be a trail and off-road 
> camping bike with knobbies. I have my Sam for road riding and don't want 
> much overlap between the two.
>
> The frame is borderline too small for me. It's an 18" and I would probably 
> benefit from a 19-19.5", but it should work fine once it's dialed, and it's 
> also just a stop-gap until I can save up for a Surly Troll frameset or 
> something similar. 
>
> Riv Content: I want it to be comfortable (but still nimble)--bars at 
> saddle height!
>
> I've considered going with a standard Technomic and Albas, dirt drop with 
> straight-ish/mountain riser bars like the Soma Clarence, or even trying a 
> threadless conversion stem with drop-style bars. I have cockpit parts for 
> any setup: MTB levers and Deore thumb shifters and aero levers and Ultegra 
> bar-ends. 
>
> I've already tried a dirt drop stem with moustache bars. This created too 
> much reach because of the bar profile and the non-relaxed geometry of the 
> bike. Anything that I should consider that I'm missing?
>
> I welcome any and all advice based on previous builds or experience. I'm 
> pretty new at working on bikes, so you won't offend me with newbie advice. 
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Bob
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa on tour

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks for the photos and the additional *apercus*. I'm particularly
interested in your dirt surface impressions. Hell, y'all may just convert
me to JAs/Clems/etc. and Wald baskets! But I will keep my drop bars, thank
you.

And by no means too many photos.

Meshing this thread with the long stays thread: my 2 custom Riv Roads have
long stays by road bike standards -- ~ 45 cm -- and my Matthews has stays
at least as long. These 3 bikes are the epitome of handling, IME.

Patrick "just rode the Hon Solo with M bar, and it wasn't bad at all"
Moore, meshing both threads with the M bar thread.



On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Valerie Yates  wrote:

> I see what you are saying. :)  It does feel rather like a dream. Here are
> a few pics that my trip-mates took and shared.  I plan to assemble my
> photos in an album in the next few days or so and will include a link.
>
>
> Lizard Head Pass:
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Bike path into Telluride:
>
>
>
> 
>
> Red Mountain Pass:
>
>
> 
>
>
> Heading to Molas Pass:
>
>
>
> 
> 
>
>
> Patrick -- before I switched my tires over to the Supremes, I had Big Bens
> on it and I rode it up and over a pretty rugged /rutted jeep trail in Gold
> Hill (the Switzerland Trail, Boulder CO). I am generally a pretty timid
> mountain biker and was so surprised at how much I enjoyed the trail on that
> bike. I felt really secure and it was easy to handle and loads of fun.
>
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> Is that too many pictures? Sorry if I overloaded anyone's data plan. I
> will plan to create an album next time.
>
>
> Val in Boulder CO
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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>



-- 
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By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
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Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
**
**
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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[RBW] Re: Thoughts on Cambium?

[Justin August]

On Monday, June 13, 2016 at 10:58:06 PM UTC-7, Manuel Acosta wrote:
>
> I bent mine already. 
>
> https://flic.kr/p/H7ww3z
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa on tour

[Valerie Yates]

I see what you are saying. :)  It does feel rather like a dream. Here are a 
few pics that my trip-mates took and shared.  I plan to assemble my photos 
in an album in the next few days or so and will include a link.


Lizard Head Pass:





Bike path into Telluride:




Red Mountain Pass:




Heading to Molas Pass:



 



Patrick -- before I switched my tires over to the Supremes, I had Big Bens 
on it and I rode it up and over a pretty rugged /rutted jeep trail in Gold 
Hill (the Switzerland Trail, Boulder CO). I am generally a pretty timid 
mountain biker and was so surprised at how much I enjoyed the trail on that 
bike. I felt really secure and it was easy to handle and loads of fun.







Is that too many pictures? Sorry if I overloaded anyone's data plan. I will 
plan to create an album next time. 


Val in Boulder CO






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Re: [RBW] New bike day! Apppaloosa!

[Patrick Moore]

I'll be very interested to hear your impressions of the improvement in ride
between tubed and tubeless. In my very limited experience with 1.35 mm
Kojaks, going from tubed to tubeless (light but otherwise standard butyl
tubes) is almost like swapping said Kojaks with tubes for Compass Elk Pass
extra lights with tubes.

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 9:20 AM, Reed Kennedy  wrote:

> Gorgeous bike! And yeah, give the fatties a try. I didn't have much fun in
> traffic with the heavy 700 x 2.15" Marathons that Riv likes so much, but
> when I put a set of Schwalbe Big Ones on, wow! They still spin up nice and
> quick, and I feel like a human hovercraft.
>
> Just converted them to tubeless last night, thanks everyone here on the
> list for advice. We'll see how that works today!
>
>
> Reed
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016, RoadieRyan  wrote:
>
>> Congrats -new bike day is the best.  And as someone who went from 700x38c
>> to 700x47c tires I saw go as fat as you can, its a blast.
>>
>> On Monday, June 13, 2016 at 1:37:04 PM UTC-7, Michael Morrissey wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> I finally got my Appaloosa together!  I'm really enjoying this bike!
>>> The main thing I love about it is the lower bottom bracket height.  It's so
>>> stable and comfy.  I built it up with a mish-mash of parts: some new, some
>>> from my cyclocross bike, some from the ebay, some from the shelves at the
>>> LBS!  I'm running 35mm tires now because that's what I have, but I'm going
>>> to go fatter soon!  After wanting a Rivendell for 10 years, I am thrilled
>>> to have one!
>>>
>>> Parts list:
>>> Paul neo-retro brakes and paul levers
>>> Sugino x White Industries cranks
>>> VP Vice pedals
>>> Wolf Tooth 94bcd x 32 tooth narrow wide chainring (really low gearing!)
>>> Sunrace 9 speed thumbshifter
>>> Nitto dirt drop stem with albatross bars
>>>
>>> m
>>>
>>> --
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Re: [RBW] New bike day! Apppaloosa!

[Reed Kennedy]

Gorgeous bike! And yeah, give the fatties a try. I didn't have much fun in
traffic with the heavy 700 x 2.15" Marathons that Riv likes so much, but
when I put a set of Schwalbe Big Ones on, wow! They still spin up nice and
quick, and I feel like a human hovercraft.

Just converted them to tubeless last night, thanks everyone here on the
list for advice. We'll see how that works today!


Reed

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016, RoadieRyan  wrote:

> Congrats -new bike day is the best.  And as someone who went from 700x38c
> to 700x47c tires I saw go as fat as you can, its a blast.
>
> On Monday, June 13, 2016 at 1:37:04 PM UTC-7, Michael Morrissey wrote:
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> I finally got my Appaloosa together!  I'm really enjoying this bike!  The
>> main thing I love about it is the lower bottom bracket height.  It's so
>> stable and comfy.  I built it up with a mish-mash of parts: some new, some
>> from my cyclocross bike, some from the ebay, some from the shelves at the
>> LBS!  I'm running 35mm tires now because that's what I have, but I'm going
>> to go fatter soon!  After wanting a Rivendell for 10 years, I am thrilled
>> to have one!
>>
>> Parts list:
>> Paul neo-retro brakes and paul levers
>> Sugino x White Industries cranks
>> VP Vice pedals
>> Wolf Tooth 94bcd x 32 tooth narrow wide chainring (really low gearing!)
>> Sunrace 9 speed thumbshifter
>> Nitto dirt drop stem with albatross bars
>>
>> m
>>
>> --
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[RBW] Re: Quickbeam / SimpleOne Sizing?

['Mojo' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I have an 89cm PBH anfd Grant has put me on a 61.5cm road bike. I am 
surprised he recommended a 61cm for you. Anyway I chose a 60cm Q for 
possible off-road riding. I have not found the lower TT to help or hinder 
when off-road. For one thing, this bike probably won't be used in the 
gnarliest (technical single track) off-road riding. Anyway I wish I had 
bought the 62cm. Here is what my seatpost and stem height look like with 
89.2cm PBH. 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/79695460@N00/2760281945/in/album-72157607471577085/

On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 8:01:33 PM UTC-6, Eric Karnes wrote:
>
> Hi all-
>
> I'm on the lookout for a used Quickbeam or SimpleOne to replace my old 
> Trek as a city commuter. But I have a question about sizing. My Roadeo has 
> a pretty similar bottom bracket height and the 61cm frame fits my 90pbh 
> really well. So the question is, do I go with a 60 or 62 'SimpleBeam?' 
>
> Any thoughts? What are current owners' experiences? Thanks!
>
> Eric
>

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Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Shoji Takahashi]

Just to resurrect the zip tie thread: the current BQ has a nice story of a 
ride from Cholula to Mexico City featuring a Firefly "Enduro All Road". 
Beautiful photos of Mexico, and nice studio photos of the Firefly bike-- 
featuring five or so black zip ties. 

This being a $8,900 bike (complete with low-rider rack, but no basket!), it 
was designed for zip ties given the top-tube braze-ons. (Are they called 
braze ons if they're welded?)

Here's a pic from Firefly's 
flickr. 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/fireflybicycles/24544578021/in/album-72157663986789435/

shoji




On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 3:54:25 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Anton insisted on prolonging the rhetorical exercise with:
>
> "If you extend my reasoning to Wald baskets, most often there is another 
> way besides zip-ties to ensure a sturdy connection."
>
> If your alternative is wire wrapping, then:
> Your solution costs more than zipties (but we're first worlders who don't 
> care about cost)
> Your solution is heavier than zipties (but we're not weight weenies)
> Your solution takes 100x longer to install than zipties (but we spend lots 
> of our free time on time sink projects so we don't mind)
> Your solution takes 10x longer to remove than zipties (ditto)
> Your solution is stronger than the basket itself, as are zipties (if we 
> tested your wires would hold more load than 8 zipties, but the basket and 
> the rack would fail first)
> Your solution will outlive you, as zipties can (you saw zipties crack in 
> under a year, I have not)
> Your solution cannot fail catastrophically, just like 8 zipties
> You think 8 zipties looks ugly and trashy.  I think wire lashing looks 
> ugly and trashy.  
>
> The gap is entirely aesthetic, and that's OK.  Ugly is in the eye of the 
> beholder.  Lots of people think twine is ugly.  Lots of people hate all 
> forms of adhesive tape on bicycles.  To each his own.  
>
> Bill
>

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[RBW] Re: New bike day! Apppaloosa!

[RoadieRyan]

Congrats -new bike day is the best.  And as someone who went from 700x38c 
to 700x47c tires I saw go as fat as you can, its a blast.

On Monday, June 13, 2016 at 1:37:04 PM UTC-7, Michael Morrissey wrote:
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
> I finally got my Appaloosa together!  I'm really enjoying this bike!  The 
> main thing I love about it is the lower bottom bracket height.  It's so 
> stable and comfy.  I built it up with a mish-mash of parts: some new, some 
> from my cyclocross bike, some from the ebay, some from the shelves at the 
> LBS!  I'm running 35mm tires now because that's what I have, but I'm going 
> to go fatter soon!  After wanting a Rivendell for 10 years, I am thrilled 
> to have one!
>
> Parts list:
> Paul neo-retro brakes and paul levers
> Sugino x White Industries cranks
> VP Vice pedals
> Wolf Tooth 94bcd x 32 tooth narrow wide chainring (really low gearing!)
> Sunrace 9 speed thumbshifter
> Nitto dirt drop stem with albatross bars
>
> m
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Handlebar Suggestions for MTB Build?

[Deacon Patrick]

I am highly partial to Albastache bars, and on a "too small" bike, would 
give Moustache bars a go. I think I have a pair if you're interested in 
trying (but they are 26.0mm, so need road brakes/shifters). Their 
positioning for what you describe is perfect for my version of the same 
type of riding. On steep climbs or descents, I ride the front curves (where 
the brakes are) while shifting my core back on descents or forward on 
climbs. For flattish cruising, the more upright back grip is perfect and 
brakes aren't usually required then.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 6:36:35 AM UTC-6, kielsun wrote:
>
> I hesitated posting this here, but it's definitely a Riv-inspired 
> conundrum. I'm building up a late 80s Rockhopper and having trouble finding 
> the right handlebar setup. It will primarily be a trail and off-road 
> camping bike with knobbies. I have my Sam for road riding and don't want 
> much overlap between the two.
>
> The frame is borderline too small for me. It's an 18" and I would probably 
> benefit from a 19-19.5", but it should work fine once it's dialed, and it's 
> also just a stop-gap until I can save up for a Surly Troll frameset or 
> something similar. 
>
> Riv Content: I want it to be comfortable (but still nimble)--bars at 
> saddle height!
>
> I've considered going with a standard Technomic and Albas, dirt drop with 
> straight-ish/mountain riser bars like the Soma Clarence, or even trying a 
> threadless conversion stem with drop-style bars. I have cockpit parts for 
> any setup: MTB levers and Deore thumb shifters and aero levers and Ultegra 
> bar-ends. 
>
> I've already tried a dirt drop stem with moustache bars. This created too 
> much reach because of the bar profile and the non-relaxed geometry of the 
> bike. Anything that I should consider that I'm missing?
>
> I welcome any and all advice based on previous builds or experience. I'm 
> pretty new at working on bikes, so you won't offend me with newbie advice. 
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Bob
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Joe Appaloosa on tour

[René Sterental]

Val... without photos we can't really tell if this trip exists or you just
dreamed it! :-)

Glad you had such a great experience!

René

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 7:34 AM, Valerie Yates  wrote:

> I just completed a credit card tour with my Joe Appaloosa and wanted to
> share my experience. I did the San Juan Skyway going clockwise from Durango
> CO. I loved the low gears, which made climbing easy, and the upright
> position, from which I could enjoy the spectacular scenery. I swapped the
> stock saddle, which I like on a different bike, for a Brooks B67. I think I
> may have preferred my Flyer Imperial on this route for the climbs. I also
> swapped the very decent stock tires for Marathon Supremes 50-584. I wanted
> something wide, smooth, and puncture resistant and these performed great on
> pavement, chipseal, loose gravel, and over bumps and seams in the road and
> on bridges.  I liked the stock pedals, which were perfectly comfortable
> over long distances because they were grippy but I could move my feet
> around as needed. I had front and rear panniers and a front basket for a
> total of 22 pounds of gear for the week. I didn't even notice the extra
> weight. The bike was very stable both on slow uphills and fast descents and
> was very fun to ride because I was so comfortable. I also really loved the
> German mirror for keeping track of vehicles and riders behind me. The bike
> performed exactly as I had hoped and I am excited to think about where else
> I will go with it.
>
>
> I'd love to hear about trips others have done or plan to do on your Joes.
> I highly recommend the San Juan Skyway. The views are amazing and the
> mountain towns are fun to visit. Every overnight stop has its own brewery.
> . .
>
> Val in Boulder, CO
>
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[RBW] Re: Dialing in stem for rough stuff

[Deacon Patrick]

Well described, Mark. The challenge of a bike that does 8+ hours a day on 
whatever, from paved to singletrack and the Hunqapillar is 100% there 
except for a few nit-picks. I'm am absolutely nit picking here.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 8:23:49 AM UTC-6, Mark Reimer wrote:
>
> For what it's worth, most modern MTBs have very short stems relative to a 
> rider's normal 'road' stem length. I was out mountain biking with a club a 
> few weeks back and most people were running stems around 1-2cm shorter or 
> more compared to road setups. I think the reasoning is that it makes the 
> handling more 'snappy' for tight trails. The frame geo is likely tweaked to 
> accommodate the shorter stem without shortening the overall reach though. 
>
> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 6:51:32 AM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Justin and Matt. If I was early on in the adjusting process, you'd 
>> be spot on, but I'm now at the point of fine tuning, so I already know I 
>> want my current seat/stem distance just further back (except when I climb 
>> technical trails. Grin.).
>>
>> Interesting, Matt. I haven't experienced that seasonal change, though, 
>> yes, my rides are longer in recent weeks between longer days and happier 
>> brain. Grin.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick 
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 12:09:15 AM UTC-6, Justin August wrote:
>>>
>>> Try just adjusting your saddle back but keeping the stem the same. You 
>>> changed two variables on the QB. It's easy to imitate one variable (saddle 
>>> movement) and then determine if you'll need to change the stem after a ride 
>>> or two.  
>>>
>>> -Justin
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thoughts on Cambium?

[René Sterental]

Manny!!! How did you do that?

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 12:36 AM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> "I bent mine already."
>
> Of course you did!
>
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Re: [RBW] Joe Appaloosa on tour

[Patrick Moore]

*I had front and rear panniers and a front basket for a total of 22 pounds
of gear for the week. I didn't even notice the extra weight. The bike was
very stable both on slow uphills and fast descents and was very fun to ride
because I was so comfortable.*

Valerie: very interesting writeup of the JA. It's this sort of review that
makes me keep an open mind to the model; if I were to judge it only by the
photos and description on the website, I'd not be interested.

Can you post photos of your build and your load? Any other photos of the
bike and of the route won't be disparaged, either.

To all: I'm also interested in the JA's ride on dirt roads and easy
singletrack: howzit do?

Lastly: regarding the long tt: has anyone managed to set a JA up with a
high drop bar? I have never been able to get comfortable with any bar
except a drop; my left palm gets numb.

I am not going to buy a new bike soon, but who knows? Would a JA be a nice
touring bike, one of these days?

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 8:34 AM, Valerie Yates  wrote:

> I just completed a credit card tour with my Joe Appaloosa and wanted to
> share my experience. I did the San Juan Skyway going clockwise from Durango
> CO. I loved the low gears, which made climbing easy, and the upright
> position, from which I could enjoy the spectacular scenery. I swapped the
> stock saddle, which I like on a different bike, for a Brooks B67. I think I
> may have preferred my Flyer Imperial on this route for the climbs. I also
> swapped the very decent stock tires for Marathon Supremes 50-584. I wanted
> something wide, smooth, and puncture resistant and these performed great on
> pavement, chipseal, loose gravel, and over bumps and seams in the road and
> on bridges.  I liked the stock pedals, which were perfectly comfortable
> over long distances because they were grippy but I could move my feet
> around as needed. I had front and rear panniers and a front basket for a
> total of 22 pounds of gear for the week. I didn't even notice the extra
> weight. The bike was very stable both on slow uphills and fast descents and
> was very fun to ride because I was so comfortable. I also really loved the
> German mirror for keeping track of vehicles and riders behind me. The bike
> performed exactly as I had hoped and I am excited to think about where else
> I will go with it.
>
>
> I'd love to hear about trips others have done or plan to do on your Joes.
> I highly recommend the San Juan Skyway. The views are amazing and the
> mountain towns are fun to visit. Every overnight stop has its own brewery.
> . .
>
> Val in Boulder, CO
>
> --
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**
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individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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[RBW] Re: Handlebar Suggestions for MTB Build?

[Philip Kim]

Ahearne MAP bars are awesome.

Jones bars are probably favorite off-road bars, and slowly creeping on my 
favorite pavement bars.

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 8:36:35 AM UTC-4, kielsun wrote:
>
> I hesitated posting this here, but it's definitely a Riv-inspired 
> conundrum. I'm building up a late 80s Rockhopper and having trouble finding 
> the right handlebar setup. It will primarily be a trail and off-road 
> camping bike with knobbies. I have my Sam for road riding and don't want 
> much overlap between the two.
>
> The frame is borderline too small for me. It's an 18" and I would probably 
> benefit from a 19-19.5", but it should work fine once it's dialed, and it's 
> also just a stop-gap until I can save up for a Surly Troll frameset or 
> something similar. 
>
> Riv Content: I want it to be comfortable (but still nimble)--bars at 
> saddle height!
>
> I've considered going with a standard Technomic and Albas, dirt drop with 
> straight-ish/mountain riser bars like the Soma Clarence, or even trying a 
> threadless conversion stem with drop-style bars. I have cockpit parts for 
> any setup: MTB levers and Deore thumb shifters and aero levers and Ultegra 
> bar-ends. 
>
> I've already tried a dirt drop stem with moustache bars. This created too 
> much reach because of the bar profile and the non-relaxed geometry of the 
> bike. Anything that I should consider that I'm missing?
>
> I welcome any and all advice based on previous builds or experience. I'm 
> pretty new at working on bikes, so you won't offend me with newbie advice. 
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Bob
>
>

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[RBW] Re: WTB Jitensha Ebisu All-Purpose

[S. Greco]

I saw the one listed on ebay in person at French Fender Day this last fall 
. . . it is truly gorgeous. It's painted to match the owners wife's Alex 
Singer. They made a really awesome pair - the bikes as well as the owners.

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[RBW] Joe Appaloosa on tour

[Valerie Yates]

I just completed a credit card tour with my Joe Appaloosa and wanted to 
share my experience. I did the San Juan Skyway going clockwise from Durango 
CO. I loved the low gears, which made climbing easy, and the upright 
position, from which I could enjoy the spectacular scenery. I swapped the 
stock saddle, which I like on a different bike, for a Brooks B67. I think I 
may have preferred my Flyer Imperial on this route for the climbs. I also 
swapped the very decent stock tires for Marathon Supremes 50-584. I wanted 
something wide, smooth, and puncture resistant and these performed great on 
pavement, chipseal, loose gravel, and over bumps and seams in the road and 
on bridges.  I liked the stock pedals, which were perfectly comfortable 
over long distances because they were grippy but I could move my feet 
around as needed. I had front and rear panniers and a front basket for a 
total of 22 pounds of gear for the week. I didn't even notice the extra 
weight. The bike was very stable both on slow uphills and fast descents and 
was very fun to ride because I was so comfortable. I also really loved the 
German mirror for keeping track of vehicles and riders behind me. The bike 
performed exactly as I had hoped and I am excited to think about where else 
I will go with it. 


I'd love to hear about trips others have done or plan to do on your Joes. I 
highly recommend the San Juan Skyway. The views are amazing and the 
mountain towns are fun to visit. Every overnight stop has its own brewery. 
. . 

Val in Boulder, CO

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[RBW] Re: Quickbeam / SimpleOne Sizing?

[S. Greco]

As a Simpleone owner who has had both a 62 and 60 I will say that you 
should seriously consider tire size before picking one if you are between 
sizes. The 62 would probably be no problem if you are running tires similar 
to that of your Roadeo - but if you plan on taking advantage of the 
generous clearance on the Simpleone you might find yourself wishing you had 
gone with the smaller frame. A set of 40c-ish tires are going to raise the 
top tube, and generally the larger tire / trail riding set up makes you 
want the opposite - a lower top tube.

If you're anywhere near Rhode Island you can ride mine . . . 
It's also still for sale : )

FS : Price Drop : 60cm SimpleOne / Multi-Speed Mods / Clear Powdercoat 



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[RBW] Re: Dialing in stem for rough stuff

[Mark Reimer]

For what it's worth, most modern MTBs have very short stems relative to a 
rider's normal 'road' stem length. I was out mountain biking with a club a 
few weeks back and most people were running stems around 1-2cm shorter or 
more compared to road setups. I think the reasoning is that it makes the 
handling more 'snappy' for tight trails. The frame geo is likely tweaked to 
accommodate the shorter stem without shortening the overall reach though. 

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 6:51:32 AM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Thanks Justin and Matt. If I was early on in the adjusting process, you'd 
> be spot on, but I'm now at the point of fine tuning, so I already know I 
> want my current seat/stem distance just further back (except when I climb 
> technical trails. Grin.).
>
> Interesting, Matt. I haven't experienced that seasonal change, though, 
> yes, my rides are longer in recent weeks between longer days and happier 
> brain. Grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick 
>
> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 12:09:15 AM UTC-6, Justin August wrote:
>>
>> Try just adjusting your saddle back but keeping the stem the same. You 
>> changed two variables on the QB. It's easy to imitate one variable (saddle 
>> movement) and then determine if you'll need to change the stem after a ride 
>> or two.  
>>
>> -Justin
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Any benefits to the longer CS's?

['Mojo' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Just to give a counter point to Richard's off-road observations, I have 
found long chainstays to be wonderful off-road. Now I have not ridden a 
bike with 21 inch CS like the 60cm Cheviot, but I have ridden 17 to 19 inch 
CS bikes. I have also ridden Surly bikes with rear dropouts/drop-ins where 
you can adjust your CS length. I have found my climbing ability increases 
with CS length, increasing my ability to keep the front wheel in contact 
with the ground. Interestingly long, 19 inch CS do not inhibit tight 
technical descents. I would agree with Richard that CS length works in 
tandem with other geometry components. I wrote up a review of the long CS 
Jones Plus bike on IBOB. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!searchin/internet-bob/review$20of$20Jones$20Plus/internet-bob/v92_t69-FYQ/Mvy7_9-T1WkJ
And Jeff Jones gives a great talk on the design of that bike  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMkQ7z9Gi7c

On Monday, June 13, 2016 at 5:19:45 PM UTC-6, Richard Rios wrote:
>
> On road they are fine. Very laid back feeling, smooth and what others 
> mentioned. Off road I found I didn't like them so much especially if paired 
> with a long top tube and non swept back bars. My impression was it made it 
> to hard to get the front wheel up to go over obstacles so I ended up 
> plowing through stuff and it had the reverse effect of esentially making 
> the ride rougher...just my .02 impressions based off a long CS proto 
> hunqapillar.
>

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Re: [RBW] Handlebar Suggestions for MTB Build?

[Eric Daume]

How about a Surly Open bar? It has a decent amount of rise, and is usefully
wider than a Clarence or Mary.

Eric

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016, kielsun  wrote:

> I hesitated posting this here, but it's definitely a Riv-inspired
> conundrum. I'm building up a late 80s Rockhopper and having trouble finding
> the right handlebar setup. It will primarily be a trail and off-road
> camping bike with knobbies. I have my Sam for road riding and don't want
> much overlap between the two.
>
> The frame is borderline too small for me. It's an 18" and I would probably
> benefit from a 19-19.5", but it should work fine once it's dialed, and it's
> also just a stop-gap until I can save up for a Surly Troll frameset or
> something similar.
>
> Riv Content: I want it to be comfortable (but still nimble)--bars at
> saddle height!
>
> I've considered going with a standard Technomic and Albas, dirt drop with
> straight-ish/mountain riser bars like the Soma Clarence, or even trying a
> threadless conversion stem with drop-style bars. I have cockpit parts for
> any setup: MTB levers and Deore thumb shifters and aero levers and Ultegra
> bar-ends.
>
> I've already tried a dirt drop stem with moustache bars. This created too
> much reach because of the bar profile and the non-relaxed geometry of the
> bike. Anything that I should consider that I'm missing?
>
> I welcome any and all advice based on previous builds or experience. I'm
> pretty new at working on bikes, so you won't offend me with newbie advice.
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Bob
>
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Re: [RBW] Noodle bars: Any upsweep on the flats?

[Jack B]

Okay Joe, then do you have a 46 Noodle you'd like to sell me? ;-)

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> You're right on about the B135 and narrowness. Years ago I switched to
> them from 46 Noodles thinking they would be similar in width at the brake
> hoods, but they felt MUCH narrower. I think Noodles are hard to beat for
> comfort in a drop bar (disclaimer: I don't use drops at all anymore).
>
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Re: [RBW] Noodle bars: Any upsweep on the flats?

[Joe Bernard]

You're right on about the B135 and narrowness. Years ago I switched to them 
from 46 Noodles thinking they would be similar in width at the brake hoods, but 
they felt MUCH narrower. I think Noodles are hard to beat for comfort in a drop 
bar (disclaimer: I don't use drops at all anymore).

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[RBW] Re: Handlebar Suggestions for MTB Build?

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Have you considered standard MTB bars?  I've tried drops.  I've tried 
cruiser bars.  I've tried Albatross bars.  I always go back to a 
traditional MTB bar with about 10 degrees of pullback and 38mm of rise. 
 There's a reason most MTB's that get ridden off-road use that type of bar. 
 

A Jones might be an option if your bike were bigger but I doubt you could 
get it high enough on an already too-small bike.  



On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 7:36:35 AM UTC-5, kielsun wrote:
>
> I hesitated posting this here, but it's definitely a Riv-inspired 
> conundrum. I'm building up a late 80s Rockhopper and having trouble finding 
> the right handlebar setup. It will primarily be a trail and off-road 
> camping bike with knobbies. I have my Sam for road riding and don't want 
> much overlap between the two.
>
> The frame is borderline too small for me. It's an 18" and I would probably 
> benefit from a 19-19.5", but it should work fine once it's dialed, and it's 
> also just a stop-gap until I can save up for a Surly Troll frameset or 
> something similar. 
>
> Riv Content: I want it to be comfortable (but still nimble)--bars at 
> saddle height!
>
> I've considered going with a standard Technomic and Albas, dirt drop with 
> straight-ish/mountain riser bars like the Soma Clarence, or even trying a 
> threadless conversion stem with drop-style bars. I have cockpit parts for 
> any setup: MTB levers and Deore thumb shifters and aero levers and Ultegra 
> bar-ends. 
>
> I've already tried a dirt drop stem with moustache bars. This created too 
> much reach because of the bar profile and the non-relaxed geometry of the 
> bike. Anything that I should consider that I'm missing?
>
> I welcome any and all advice based on previous builds or experience. I'm 
> pretty new at working on bikes, so you won't offend me with newbie advice. 
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Bob
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Noodle bars: Any upsweep on the flats?

[Jack B]

Yeah the B135 sounds like it would be a good fit, except for the
limited width. 45cm in itself is almost wide enough, but that's measured c
to c at the bar ends, right? That style of bar is going to be much narrower
at the flats, I'd think.

Sounds like I had my terminology wrong earlier when I was talking about the
ramps. I meant the drops.  Right now I've tilted the Mark's bar up slightly
(cheating, like Patrick says). This makes the drops really steep, like
35deg or more. Kinda funky.

Thanks for all the replies.

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> + 1 for the B 135 -- shortish reach and very comfortable upsweep. The
> Noodle sweeps back but not up; reach (I take it that Riv means effective
> reach) is 95 mm. So if you can stomach 1 more cm of reach, the B 135 may
> well be your boy. I see that Ben's Cycles has a 45 cm width model.
>
> So, yes, the Noodle has a shorter reach but a deeper drop.
>
> Me, I prefer the shallower 120 mm drop to the Noodle's (not *Noodles'!*)
> 140 mm -- IIRC, the Mark's is very like the Nitto 185 which has 135 mm drop.
>
> BTW, you can indeed adjust the tilt of a bar to make your ramps longer or
> to bring the brake levers up and closer, but IMO that is cheating; choose a
> bar that fits and lets you get the levers where you like them.
>
> And, for another lister's question: per conventional terminology, flat or
> top: section of a drop bar from clamp to forward bend. Ramp: flat part from
> bend to hood -- some bars don't have much of a ramp, like the Mark's. Hook
> or "drop": inside portion of forward curve from hood to ends of bar.
>
> Patrick Moore, riding one bicycle handlebar (tm, singular) at a time in
> ABQ, NM
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 9:16 PM, Jack Barnes  > wrote:
>
>> I've been riding on VO's Rando
>> 
>> bars, but have decided that they have too much forward reach. Switched over
>> to a Mark's Bar that I have in the parts bin, and I'm finding that I like
>> the reduced reach but miss the upswept flats. Would the Noodle give me some
>> of this effect? Hard to tell from the pics.
>>
>> I don't need it to be as swoopy as the rando bars. Nitto's rando bar
>> looks like a decent option, but too narrow — I'm looking for a 46 or 48cm
>> width.
>>
>> thanks,
>> Jack
>>
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>
>
>
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> **
> **
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> circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
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> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
>
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>
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>
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Re: [RBW] Noodle bars: Any upsweep on the flats?

[Patrick Moore]

+ 1 for the B 135 -- shortish reach and very comfortable upsweep. The
Noodle sweeps back but not up; reach (I take it that Riv means effective
reach) is 95 mm. So if you can stomach 1 more cm of reach, the B 135 may
well be your boy. I see that Ben's Cycles has a 45 cm width model.

So, yes, the Noodle has a shorter reach but a deeper drop.

Me, I prefer the shallower 120 mm drop to the Noodle's (not *Noodles'!*)
140 mm -- IIRC, the Mark's is very like the Nitto 185 which has 135 mm drop.

BTW, you can indeed adjust the tilt of a bar to make your ramps longer or
to bring the brake levers up and closer, but IMO that is cheating; choose a
bar that fits and lets you get the levers where you like them.

And, for another lister's question: per conventional terminology, flat or
top: section of a drop bar from clamp to forward bend. Ramp: flat part from
bend to hood -- some bars don't have much of a ramp, like the Mark's. Hook
or "drop": inside portion of forward curve from hood to ends of bar.

Patrick Moore, riding one bicycle handlebar (tm, singular) at a time in
ABQ, NM

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 9:16 PM, Jack Barnes  wrote:

> I've been riding on VO's Rando
> 
> bars, but have decided that they have too much forward reach. Switched over
> to a Mark's Bar that I have in the parts bin, and I'm finding that I like
> the reduced reach but miss the upswept flats. Would the Noodle give me some
> of this effect? Hard to tell from the pics.
>
> I don't need it to be as swoopy as the rando bars. Nitto's rando bar looks
> like a decent option, but too narrow — I'm looking for a 46 or 48cm width.
>
> thanks,
> Jack
>
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**
**
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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Re: [RBW] Noodle bars: Any upsweep on the flats?

[Lungimsam]

By "on the flats", are you meaning "tops", "ramps", or "drops"?

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[RBW] Re: Any benefits to the longer CS's?

[Jon in central Colorado]

Kielsun,
Thanks for your input.Interesting.


On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 6:17:29 AM UTC-6, kielsun wrote:

> I've only spent about five minutes on a 60 Cheviot, so take this for FWIW, 
> but I did so immediately after finishing a ride on my 56 Sam. The Cheviot 
> felt super stable (in a good way), almost like I was an alligator and could 
> feel my tail trailing predictably behind me as I turned--a weird analogy, 
> but it's what I've got. I really enjoyed it, so much so that I momentarily 
> contemplated a Sam sale to partially fund one. :)
>
> My buddy who owns the Cheviot also raves about its character in ascending 
> and descending hills. He says he finds it much more stable in steep 
> sections, like its firmly planted on the ground without any fear of the 
> front wheel popping up. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Noodle bars: Any upsweep on the flats?

[Tim Gavin]

Nitto B135 Randonneur bars have shorter reach (105 mm) than the B132 and/or
Grand Cru Randonneur bars (120 mm).

Not as short-reach as the Mark's bar, but the B135 does have nice upswept
flats and a nice amount of flare through the drops.  I use the B135 on two
bikes.

Tim

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 12:56 AM, Lungimsam  wrote:

> You can angle your bars so the ramps are flat, then rotate your brake
> levers up the ramps to get them closer reach.
>
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[RBW] Handlebar Suggestions for MTB Build?

[kielsun]

I hesitated posting this here, but it's definitely a Riv-inspired conundrum. 
I'm building up a late 80s Rockhopper and having trouble finding the right 
handlebar setup. It will primarily be a trail and off-road camping bike with 
knobbies. I have my Sam for road riding and don't want much overlap between the 
two.

The frame is borderline too small for me. It's an 18" and I would probably 
benefit from a 19-19.5", but it should work fine once it's dialed, and it's 
also just a stop-gap until I can save up for a Surly Troll frameset or 
something similar. 

Riv Content: I want it to be comfortable (but still nimble)--bars at saddle 
height!

I've considered going with a standard Technomic and Albas, dirt drop with 
straight-ish/mountain riser bars like the Soma Clarence, or even trying a 
threadless conversion stem with drop-style bars. I have cockpit parts for any 
setup: MTB levers and Deore thumb shifters and aero levers and Ultegra 
bar-ends. 

I've already tried a dirt drop stem with moustache bars. This created too much 
reach because of the bar profile and the non-relaxed geometry of the bike. 
Anything that I should consider that I'm missing?

I welcome any and all advice based on previous builds or experience. I'm pretty 
new at working on bikes, so you won't offend me with newbie advice. Thanks for 
your help!

Bob

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[RBW] Re: Any benefits to the longer CS's?

[kielsun]

I've only spent about five minutes on a 60 Cheviot, so take this for FWIW, but 
I did so immediately after finishing a ride on my 56 Sam. The Cheviot felt 
super stable (in a good way), almost like I was an alligator and could feel my 
tail trailing predictably behind me as I turned--a weird analogy, but it's what 
I've got. I really enjoyed it, so much so that I momentarily contemplated a Sam 
sale to partially fund one. :)

My buddy who owns the Cheviot also raves about its character in ascending and 
descending hills. He says he finds it much more stable in steep sections, like 
its firmly planted on the ground without any fear of the front wheel popping 
up. 

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