[RBW] Re: Sam Hillbornes Go Live Tomorrow

[Cyclofiend Jim]

I have to say that I haven't looked at a bike and felt a strong impulse to 
buy in a long time. 

But both of those colors tripped the switch for me. Unique and yet wholly 
Riv. Very fine choices. There are going to be some lucky owners looking 
back on this day and smiling.

Found myself looking at them, thinking "y'know, I don't really have a 
swept back bar setup"

Temptingtempting

J

On Tuesday, May 14, 2024 at 6:09:21 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:

> I like the colors coming this go-round. The Sam seems like the perfect 
> all-rounder and I would get one had I not just bought a Roadini. Who's 
> planning to get a Sam Hillborne?
> Doug
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Rambouillet Randonneuring Road Bicycle "pointy lugs" Toyo? Waterford?

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Just saw the actual post - the bottom bracket detail would confirm that 
this was the original factory paint. 

>From another resource: 
Base Coat = HOK Nova Orange Shimrin #BC08
Kandy Clear Coat=HOK Spanish Gold #UK14


Jim
On Monday, May 13, 2024 at 12:53:25 PM UTC-7 Cyclofiend Jim wrote:

> Back in the day, I compiled a fair amount of Rambouillet info yonder - 
> http://cyclofiend.com/rbw/rambouillet/
>
> But, yeah. Toyo. It's possible there was proto-model built stateside, but 
> I cannot recall that being the case. 
>
> In the open shade, that has a bit more of a "current" look to the orange 
> than original. I'd want to verify that it wasn't a repaint. The original 
> orange was a complex paint job. 
> If it had actual sunlight falling on the image, it would be easier to 
> confirm. 
>
> Jim
>
>
> On Thursday, May 9, 2024 at 3:28:27 PM UTC-7 jerry...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> No mine, and no affiliation...
>> $1,6999
>>
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/305557298256?itmmeta=01HXFQAW6P602XRR9J2PG63GAH=item4724a25c50:g:mhsAAOSwQPJmPTYG
>> [image: 00ram.jpg]
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Rambouillet Randonneuring Road Bicycle "pointy lugs" Toyo? Waterford?

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Back in the day, I compiled a fair amount of Rambouillet info yonder - 
http://cyclofiend.com/rbw/rambouillet/

But, yeah. Toyo. It's possible there was proto-model built stateside, but I 
cannot recall that being the case. 

In the open shade, that has a bit more of a "current" look to the orange 
than original. I'd want to verify that it wasn't a repaint. The original 
orange was a complex paint job. 
If it had actual sunlight falling on the image, it would be easier to 
confirm. 

Jim


On Thursday, May 9, 2024 at 3:28:27 PM UTC-7 jerry...@gmail.com wrote:

> No mine, and no affiliation...
> $1,6999
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/305557298256?itmmeta=01HXFQAW6P602XRR9J2PG63GAH=item4724a25c50:g:mhsAAOSwQPJmPTYG
> [image: 00ram.jpg]
>

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[RBW] Re: List Admin Message: Kerfuffle of the week and what to do about scammy folks

[Cyclofiend Jim]

I would say a good rule of thumb:
- An offer which begins as a DM
- The offer comes from someone who has no posts in the group
= "Run Away!"

On Tuesday, May 7, 2024 at 12:56:20 PM UTC-7 Hoch in ut wrote:

> Would it be possible to list the names of the scammers somewhere? Just for 
> those initiated contact by a private message prior to the ban. 
> On Tuesday, May 7, 2024 at 1:46:25 PM UTC-6 Cyclofiend Jim wrote:
>
>> Hey all - 
>>
>> I just removed another person who listed an item and appears to have been 
>> harvesting internet images and presenting them as their own. That's not OK. 
>>
>> This has happened pretty infrequently on this group, and it always a 
>> minor PITA to deal with. 
>>
>> All of which has me wanting to tighten down the listing of for sale items 
>> for new members. These problems always stem from some "enterprising" 
>> individual who joins the group and tries to post a for sale item 
>> immediately. I can count on one hand the times that some "known" group 
>> member acted inappropriately in a transaction.
>>
>> The way in which we've avoided this in the past is by asking folks to 
>> engage on the list first, and use it as a way to rehome items second. I'm 
>> going to be a lot more rigid about that now. 
>>
>> I'll update the list info to reflect this in stronger language, but if 
>> your first post is a For Sale item, I won't be passing it through the 
>> queue. If you would like to offer items to other members, please engage 
>> with the community for a while (purposefully vague...) and demonstrate that 
>> you aren't simply here to cash in. 
>>
>> So - deep breath everyone. 
>>
>> Thanks to those who shared more than just conjecture. That clarified the 
>> issue in this case. That's important data. 
>>
>> As for potential or new members who just want to sell gear and not be 
>> part of this community - there's ebay or other marketplaces which protect 
>> you and the buyer, as well as more transactionally focused groups. Please 
>> use those. 
>>
>> Other than that, we're coming into riding season. Go get some miles in.
>>
>> Jim / List-admin
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: List Admin Message: Kerfuffle of the week and what to do about scammy folks

[Cyclofiend Jim]

I would say if anyone DM'd you and they are not members of this group, that 
would be suspect. 

J

On Tuesday, May 7, 2024 at 12:56:20 PM UTC-7 Hoch in ut wrote:

> Would it be possible to list the names of the scammers somewhere? Just for 
> those initiated contact by a private message prior to the ban. 
> On Tuesday, May 7, 2024 at 1:46:25 PM UTC-6 Cyclofiend Jim wrote:
>
>> Hey all - 
>>
>> I just removed another person who listed an item and appears to have been 
>> harvesting internet images and presenting them as their own. That's not OK. 
>>
>> This has happened pretty infrequently on this group, and it always a 
>> minor PITA to deal with. 
>>
>> All of which has me wanting to tighten down the listing of for sale items 
>> for new members. These problems always stem from some "enterprising" 
>> individual who joins the group and tries to post a for sale item 
>> immediately. I can count on one hand the times that some "known" group 
>> member acted inappropriately in a transaction.
>>
>> The way in which we've avoided this in the past is by asking folks to 
>> engage on the list first, and use it as a way to rehome items second. I'm 
>> going to be a lot more rigid about that now. 
>>
>> I'll update the list info to reflect this in stronger language, but if 
>> your first post is a For Sale item, I won't be passing it through the 
>> queue. If you would like to offer items to other members, please engage 
>> with the community for a while (purposefully vague...) and demonstrate that 
>> you aren't simply here to cash in. 
>>
>> So - deep breath everyone. 
>>
>> Thanks to those who shared more than just conjecture. That clarified the 
>> issue in this case. That's important data. 
>>
>> As for potential or new members who just want to sell gear and not be 
>> part of this community - there's ebay or other marketplaces which protect 
>> you and the buyer, as well as more transactionally focused groups. Please 
>> use those. 
>>
>> Other than that, we're coming into riding season. Go get some miles in.
>>
>> Jim / List-admin
>>
>

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[RBW] List Admin Message: Kerfuffle of the week and what to do about scammy folks

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Hey all - 

I just removed another person who listed an item and appears to have been 
harvesting internet images and presenting them as their own. That's not OK. 

This has happened pretty infrequently on this group, and it always a minor 
PITA to deal with. 

All of which has me wanting to tighten down the listing of for sale items 
for new members. These problems always stem from some "enterprising" 
individual who joins the group and tries to post a for sale item 
immediately. I can count on one hand the times that some "known" group 
member acted inappropriately in a transaction.

The way in which we've avoided this in the past is by asking folks to 
engage on the list first, and use it as a way to rehome items second. I'm 
going to be a lot more rigid about that now. 

I'll update the list info to reflect this in stronger language, but if your 
first post is a For Sale item, I won't be passing it through the queue. If 
you would like to offer items to other members, please engage with the 
community for a while (purposefully vague...) and demonstrate that you 
aren't simply here to cash in. 

So - deep breath everyone. 

Thanks to those who shared more than just conjecture. That clarified the 
issue in this case. That's important data. 

As for potential or new members who just want to sell gear and not be part 
of this community - there's ebay or other marketplaces which protect you 
and the buyer, as well as more transactionally focused groups. Please use 
those. 

Other than that, we're coming into riding season. Go get some miles in.

Jim / List-admin

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[RBW] Kerfuffle of the week - Scam posts and what to do...

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Hey all - 

I just removed another person who listed an item and appears to have been 
harvesting internet images and presenting them as their own. That's not OK. 

This has happened pretty infrequently on this group, and it always a minor 
PITA to deal with. 

All of which has me wanting to tighten down the listing of for sale items 
for new members. These problems always stem from some "enterprising" 
individual who joins the group and tries to post a for sale item 
immediately. I can count on one han d the times that some "known" group 
member acted inappropriately in a transaction.

The way in which we've avoided this in the past is by asking folks to 
engage on the list first, and use it as a way to rehome items second. I'm 
going to be a lot more rigid about that now. 

I'll update the list info to reflect this in stronger language, but if your 
first post is a For Sale item, I won't be passing it through the queue. If 
you would like to offer items to other members, please engage with the 
community for a while (purposefully vague...) and demonstrate that you 
aren't hear just to cash in. 

So - deep breath everyone. 

Thanks to those who shared more than just conjecture. That clarified the 
issue in this case. 

As for potential or new members who just want to sell gear and not be part 
of this community - there's ebay or other marketplaces which protect you 
and the buyer, as well as more transactionally focused groups. Please use 
those. 

Other than that, we're coming into riding season. Go get some miles in.

Jim / List-admin


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[RBW] Re: Caution: "Cuddle Bears"

[Cyclofiend Jim]

If you saw my post on the recent (now-locked) Hilsen-for-sale thread, it's 
clear that "Caveat Emptor" is an approach I endorse. 
That has never _not_ been the case in this group and on the internet. 

However, assuming ill-will just because someone didn't want to reveal their 
exact location feels a bit judgmental. 

Bear in mind that new members are moderated, and it could be a day or so 
until a response is released from the queue. In this case, it took a few 
hours before I saw and did so, and there were all manner of insinuations 
fairly quickly. 

Hence my encouragement to dial things back a bit. 

The folks replied to my direct email query in a timely manner and with a 
fair amount of detail. I would probably converse with them a bit more 
before sending off a check in that amount, certainly. But unless you had a 
specific interaction with them that is cause for general concern, I'm not 
seeing a reason to engage. 

Anything that's for sale on this list - from the lowliest worn-out cycling 
cap to a full new bike build - should be confirmed before you send any 
funds. 

And as I feel like I've written more than a few times times in the past 
couple days - if you are having questionable interactions or 
communications, feel free to loop me in. 

Jim



On Tuesday, May 7, 2024 at 11:50:46 AM UTC-7 weste...@gmail.com wrote:

> Jim, 
>
> On Cuddle Bears' FS post thread they decline to reveal their location, say 
> they won't reveal their name, and don't address their use of someone else's 
> photos in their FS thread.  That thread also marks the first post by Cuddle 
> Bears (perhaps they are a regular poster under another name, but that in 
> and of itself is more than a bit peculiar...) -- those are all red flags 
> for me.  I think Max has a point -- Caveat Emptor. Be warned. FWIW, I'd not 
> trust Cuddle Bears given the history of scammers -- this is a community -- 
> new identities shrouded making an FS post shrouded in secrecy are not ideal 
> ways to be a good member of the community. 
>
> Regards, 
>
> Julian Westerhout 
>
> On Tuesday, May 7, 2024 at 10:40:20 AM UTC-5 Cyclofiend Jim wrote:
>
>> Max - 
>> I realize you have been in this group for a while, but unless you have 
>> something concrete to offer, I'd ask that you refrain from posting 
>> commentary like this. It's exceedingly vague. If you are an injured party 
>> in a specific transaction, that's different. But it did not seem that way 
>> from this post. 
>>
>> If I understand the issue - a seller repurposed a photograph of a pair of 
>> handlebars. That seems to be the one issue at this point. 
>>
>> As I said in a separate thread - if you have specific _experience_ with a 
>> seller, you are welcome to email the admin - that would be me - with 
>> information.
>>
>> Most of the recent scam attempts - and there are very few here - are via 
>> a DM from someone who has not taken the time to post anything. In this 
>> case, while I certainly encourage caution on any transaction, let's dial 
>> things back a notch, OK?
>>
>> Jim / list admin
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 7, 2024 at 5:04:46 AM UTC-7 Max S wrote:
>>
>>> Cuddle Bears is / are selling a Susie bike for a very good asking price, 
>>> almost too good to be true. User has no prior posts, a few other details 
>>> don't check out. Use caution. 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Caution: "Cuddle Bears"

[Cyclofiend Jim]

If you are worried that the poster does not have possession of a specific 
item, it's pretty simple to ask for verification with an updated image. 


On Tuesday, May 7, 2024 at 8:40:20 AM UTC-7 Cyclofiend Jim wrote:

> Max - 
> I realize you have been in this group for a while, but unless you have 
> something concrete to offer, I'd ask that you refrain from posting 
> commentary like this. It's exceedingly vague. If you are an injured party 
> in a specific transaction, that's different. But it did not seem that way 
> from this post. 
>
> If I understand the issue - a seller repurposed a photograph of a pair of 
> handlebars. That seems to be the one issue at this point. 
>
> As I said in a separate thread - if you have specific _experience_ with a 
> seller, you are welcome to email the admin - that would be me - with 
> information.
>
> Most of the recent scam attempts - and there are very few here - are via a 
> DM from someone who has not taken the time to post anything. In this case, 
> while I certainly encourage caution on any transaction, let's dial things 
> back a notch, OK?
>
> Jim / list admin
>
> On Tuesday, May 7, 2024 at 5:04:46 AM UTC-7 Max S wrote:
>
>> Cuddle Bears is / are selling a Susie bike for a very good asking price, 
>> almost too good to be true. User has no prior posts, a few other details 
>> don't check out. Use caution. 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Caution: "Cuddle Bears"

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Max - 
I realize you have been in this group for a while, but unless you have 
something concrete to offer, I'd ask that you refrain from posting 
commentary like this. It's exceedingly vague. If you are an injured party 
in a specific transaction, that's different. But it did not seem that way 
from this post. 

If I understand the issue - a seller repurposed a photograph of a pair of 
handlebars. That seems to be the one issue at this point. 

As I said in a separate thread - if you have specific _experience_ with a 
seller, you are welcome to email the admin - that would be me - with 
information.

Most of the recent scam attempts - and there are very few here - are via a 
DM from someone who has not taken the time to post anything. In this case, 
while I certainly encourage caution on any transaction, let's dial things 
back a notch, OK?

Jim / list admin

On Tuesday, May 7, 2024 at 5:04:46 AM UTC-7 Max S wrote:

> Cuddle Bears is / are selling a Susie bike for a very good asking price, 
> almost too good to be true. User has no prior posts, a few other details 
> don't check out. Use caution. 

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[RBW] Re: Another Brevet Report: The Antelope Island 300k

[Cyclofiend Jim]

What a brilliant adventure. Thank you for sharing the details and the 
images. 

Jim

On Sunday, May 5, 2024 at 8:17:58 PM UTC-7 Brady Smith wrote:

> A few weeks ago I wrote about my first brevet of the season, in which good 
> training and great conditions produced a 200k for the ages, at least for 
> me. 
>
> Yesterday's ride was a challenge of a different sort. 
>
> The real Antelope Island 300k sets off this coming Saturday. I decided to 
> pre-ride the course because I'll be in Washington DC with 80 8th graders 
> this coming weekend, an endurance test, to be sure, but of a somewhat 
> different kind. 
>
> We've had beautiful weather this week in the Salt Lake Valley, but it's 
> been, quite literally, the calm before the storm. As I did some final 
> planning on Friday, I started noticing winter weather advisories for the 
> Wasatch mountains Sunday into Monday. At first I didn't make much of it, 
> since I was planning on riding on Saturday, and since winter weather can 
> happen all the way through May in this part of the country. But then I 
> remembered what always happens when big storms roll through the valley--big 
> winds come along with them. 
>
> I noticed almost as soon as I started up Emigration Canyon alongside our 
> RBA, who graciously volunteered to accompany me for the first twenty miles 
> or so of the ride--a gusty, noticeable breeze from the east, the opposite 
> direction that winds usually blow in these parts. It calmed a bit as we got 
> to the middle of the canyon--a 7 mile climb or so--and then disappeared as 
> we made our way up towards Big Mountain Pass, a 7400 foot summit that marks 
> the end of the first big ascent on the route. 
>
> Ken, our RBA, had wondered aloud about continuing on, but decided against 
> it due to family obligations. He did not miss the fast descent that usually 
> greets riders on the east side of Big Mountain Pass, because, as we had 
> suspected, it had not yet been cleared by the UDOT, probably because, like 
> us, they could read the forecast, and saw that a foot or two of snow was 
> due to fall over the mountains in the coming days. It was not completely 
> covered in snow, but there were five or six significant snowdrifts impeding 
> progress down the mountain. A ten minute descent turned into thirty minutes 
> of intermittent riding and hiking. 
>
> It didn't seem to be a particularly big deal at that point, and the next 
> 35 miles or so were nothing short of serene. From the base of Big Mountain 
> one continues past East Canyon reservoir and along the vast expanse of the 
> Morgan Valley, a 30 mile downhill section, at which point the 20 mile, 3400 
> foot ascent that greets riders at the start of this route seems to be 
> redeemed. I blew through this section, finding myself in Mountain Green 
> well before lunch, and then up and over Trapper's Loop Road, the second big 
> climb of the route, in fairly swift time. 
>
> After meandering through the upper Ogden Valley, I came across, around 
> mile 80, what I hoped was the last big test of this ride--the North Ogden 
> Divide. You can see it clearly as you approach the backside of the Wasatch 
> Mountains, a tiny line etched precariously in the mountainside, only 2 
> miles long from where the climb really starts to the top of the mountain, 
> but a 2 miles that proceeds upwards at a steady 10%. It's also narrow, and 
> presaged by a sign saying something to the effect of "Steep grades and 
> sharp curves. Not Recommended for Cyclists." (As if in penance, there is a 
> "Share the Road" sign immediately after, but based on the angry shouts of 
> one pickup driver heading down the mountain opposite, not one motorists pay 
> much attention to.) 
>
> I shifted immediately into my 30-32 low gear and started upwards, one eye 
> on the road ahead, another in my mirror, making sure that the occasional 
> vehicle coming up behind me looked like it was going to give me adequate 
> space. It's fair to say that this was the hardest climb I've ever 
> completed, at least when accounting for the fact that I'd already done 80 
> miles and 6000 feet of elevation at this point in the ride. It was 
> borderline nauseating making my way up the mountainside, the stress of the 
> ascent only partially atoned for by the stunning views of the valley off to 
> the south. When there was space I occasionally started zig-zagging up the 
> mountain, trying to relieve some of the strain on my legs and lungs, then 
> getting over when traffic appeared in my mirror behind me. At long last, I 
> made it to the top. 
>
> The descent was exhilarating. The speed limit is 30 mph, but I had to lean 
> on my brakes to stay at 35mph, and the cars lined up behind me seem to have 
> no problem waiting to pass until we got to the bottom. In my head, the 
> worst of it was over. I'd done almost 7000 feet of climbing in 80 miles. 
> After 8 hours in the mountains, I was back in the Salt Lake Valley, with a 
> flat 100 miles or 

Re: [RBW] Re: Scam alert? I'm so confused. Blue Homer in LA? ND?

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Follow up - 

I just reread the posts in this thread - I'm still confused (and don't 
really want to know all the details)but just to be clear.

First
- There was an old post on FB (unrelated to this group at all)
- It's been there a while.
- It seems scammy.

Also
- Someone DM'd a group member (As I've mentioned before, this is possible 
even if the DM'ing member is moderated) saying a similar bike is for sale.
- That went scammy quickly.
- Others had experience with that individual which felt scammy.
- No one reported it to me.
- I've now removed _that_ individual who was on this list. 

Then
- there was a tangent about an older scammer (immediately removed from this 
group back when it happened, after someone brought it to my attention). 

Review:
- If someone solicits you via DM for a transaction and they have no 
presence on this list, I would err on the side of caution. There are plenty 
of solid group citizens here and very few scammers. But that does not mean 
you should simply trust someone who has contacted you. Verify. Ask for 
specifics. Engage in safe online transaction practices.
- And if someone is acting hinky, let the admin know... 

OK.  Enjoy your weekend!

Jim





On Friday, May 3, 2024 at 3:18:52 PM UTC-7 Jay wrote:

> I feel for those of you who have been scammed.  Hopefully, karma plays out 
> for them, and perhaps you'll have a 'win' in the near future that makes up 
> for it.
>
> I'm almost to the point of quoting any online used buy/sell activity.
>
> I've bought/sold bike stuff, and a few other categories of items, on 
> kijiji for 10-15 years.  Pre-covid, didn't do too bad.  Most items would go 
> in 1-2 weeks, a lot of views, responses were generally positive even if a 
> sale didn't occur.  Most who did respond, got back to you even if they 
> decided to pass on the item.  Likewise, I would message on things I was 
> interested in, and most sellers were respectful and good to deal with. 
>  During covid, selling was a piece of cake.  Now, sigh, about 90% of the 
> interactions I've had are with pinheads.  People who in one minute seem so 
> interested "I can be there today between 3-4pm", and when you say you're 
> working, how about after dinner, you never here another word from them 
> (this has happened with 8 out of the last 10 interactions).  I've had items 
> listed for months with no activity.  I may donate a bunch of things to a 
> bike collective or not-for-profit and hopefully the old parts (mainly 
> saddles and stems) will go to a good home.  I'm a really positive person, 
> but it's hard to be positive with a lot the online activity these days (and 
> these are not scammers, just, pinheads!).
>
> Buy/Sell looks great on this site.  I'm in Canada though so that's a bit 
> of a challenge (though I do use cross border pick up site, and it works 
> fine, both directions), plus I'm at my budget for spending on bike things, 
> for now, and I have most of what I want.
>
> On Friday, May 3, 2024 at 11:07:48 AM UTC-4 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> @Roberta and Eric -
>> Let me clarify how I was scammed. I posted here last July wanting to buy 
>> Blue Lug's
>> *REW10 WORKS* hex brass valve caps here in the states to save myself some 
>> monies in overseas shipping costs. 
>>
>> Anita Batya saw my post and claimed that she had a pair. Anita told me 
>> that she lived in Seattle, of which is relatively close to me (This was a 
>> lie. She lived in Pennsylvania after doing some online homework after the 
>> fact). If I wanted them, she requested me to make a payment through a third 
>> party email address of which she claimed it was her bookkeeper. Anita told 
>> me that she was waiting for an answer from Paypal for a refund. I sent 
>> her money (I forgot what amount it was $50.00~?) several times. This kept 
>> going in circles over and over again. By then, I felt that there was 
>> something mighty strange and peculiar going on. I caught on that I was 
>> being scammed. I did not respond back to her. This was my first time being 
>> scammed over something that I really wanted. My apologies for there might 
>> be some holes left out from my recollection of my interaction with Anita. 
>>
>> Later down the road, there was other members herein and over on the IBOB 
>> group being scammed by Anita. Skip Montanaro, the administrator accepted 
>> Anita 
>> Batya's membership. When I told Skip that she was/is a scammer, he quickly 
>> took action and denied her membership.
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/g/internet-bob/c/5FXmDXVSG6c/m/yGCjPQ3KBAAJ
>> https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/WRzS3bBRKcc
>>
>> Kim Hetzel. 
>>
>> On Friday, May 3, 2024 at 7:24:11 AM UTC-7 drewfi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> The "Jeff" in question reached out to me in response to a WTB post. I 
>>> asked what his "Friend" was selling and he said a 60cm Homer, which I 
>>> thought was strange considering my post specifically said 54/55/56cm. 
>>>
>>> A quick check to see that he'd never posted 

[RBW] Re: Scam alert? I'm so confused. Blue Homer in LA? ND?

[Cyclofiend Jim]

ADMIN HAT ON ///

Ok. I want to be very, very clear about this. 

I've definitely removed and suspended individuals from this group when they 
behaved inappropriately or they were clearly scams.

But there is really no way for me - or any other member of this group - to 
police some other group on Facebook.

If you have a problem with a seller on Facebook, it would be much more 
direct to take up with FB or the admin of that group. This is not the place 
for that. 

One of the reasons I limit posting for newer members is to try to filter 
out those who are clearly trying to scam folks. 

But I do not in any way want any member of this group to assume that some 
faceless person on the internet has been vetted for transactions. That 
responsibility lies with the buyer. Any member of this group can search 
other members to see how active they have been over the years. 

Caveat emptor. 

Let's have no confusion on that point. 

I felt it was inappropriate to drag content from a private transaction on 
separate on FB into this group, so I've locked this thread. 

// ADMIN HAT OFF

Thanks!

Jim 

On Thursday, May 2, 2024 at 8:48:01 PM UTC-7 brenton...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi. I've been searching for a blue homer in 54.5 for my wife and in my ISO 
> post I was linked to this facebook listing:
>
> " @Brenton -
> If you go FACEBOOK Rivendell Bicycle BUY/SELL/TRADE, there is a blue Homer 
> under the owner's name of 
> *Payton Beargrr* 
> 
>  
>
> Very near mint condition A. Homer Hilsen, 54.5cm with 650b wheels. Unsure 
> of year but it's likely 4 or less years old. Taiwanese made frame. I am not 
> the original owner but this appears to be a Rivendell build. 
> -Nitto handlebars, stem, and seat post
> -Brooks saddle
> -Paul racer brakes, Paul canti levers
> -Paul thumbie mounts with Microshift shifters
> -Riv Silver double crankset
> -IRD front derailleur
> -Shimano Alivio rear derailleur
> -MKS Grip Monarch pedals
> -mismatched Shimano hubs, no name rims
> -Soma Cazadero 650 x 42b
> -Sackville bag
> The only imperfections are the two small paint chips on the top tube, 
> noted in the pictures. 
> $2500 + shipping. 
> Let me know if you have any questions.
>
> Kim Hetzel."
>
> Other people seem to also be looking at this bike. Robert Carlton said 
> owner confirmed it's a 58. The facebook post has some comments and the 
> owner says the bike is in *Fargo ND.*
>
> I've been texting with someone (who says the bike is in *LA*) and he 
> wants a $400 deposit to sell it to me for $1300 (complete bike, insane 
> price). The whole thing is odd. They can't send me a pic with measure tape 
> to prove a claim of *69cm standover*. It sure doesn't look like a 54.5 
> based on every other Riv stack I've seen and studied. Our messages have 
> been super cryptic. 
>
> I just *HOPE* anyone else looking for a blue homer in 58 or 54.5 doesn't 
> fall for a scam. Posting here amongst people I trust, admire, and have 
> become friends with. My Roadini frame and dozens of parts on both my Rivs 
> have been purchased from this group. I don't want to stir up any drama if 
> this is in fact a legit sale, but the listing is from Jan 2023, 16 months 
> old, this bike at any price under $2000 should be long gone on it's way to 
> a new owner. PS. I'm not sending a deposit.
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: 3rd parties for bike sales

[Cyclofiend Jim]

With any platform, it's beneficial to understand what protections are 
offered. There are resources through the FB help site - 
https://www.facebook.com/help/228307904608701

I wouldn't buy anything significant from anyone without a clear return 
policy agreement. 
Other than that, all caveats apply. 




On Friday, March 8, 2024 at 4:26:52 PM UTC-8 James wrote:

> Has anyone here experimented with 3rd party websites for "large" purchases 
> from strangers?  I'm looking to buy a bike from someone on FB marketplace 
> and it's not a local sale.  So in essence I'm sending over $1,000 to a 
> stranger on their word.  What have ya'll done, if anything, to make sure 
> you aren't getting scammed (asides from getting a sense of their character 
> over the phone)?

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[RBW] Re: Building a Quickbeam and wondering...

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Mine's still more or less as shown here - 
http://www.cyclofiend.com/ssg/2007/ssg017r3-cyclofiend0107.html

I came back one tooth on the fixed, so it's running at 15T with the stock 
40 Sugino up front. That's kinda where it lives 95% of the time. 
But the 32T is there, as well as the 18T freewheel.

The "single speed crankset" was just a Sugino triple with a guard. You 
could get the Silver and swap up the inner ring.
https://www.rivbike.com/products/crank-silver-double-42-28-with-guard

One of the reasons that remains my favorite bike is the ultimate 
adaptability. You can come up with all manner of ways to set it up and it 
will let you do so. 

J

On Tuesday, March 5, 2024 at 12:21:08 PM UTC-8 David wrote:

> What are your drivetrain specs? Cranks, chainrings, etc.  Simpleones, too, 
> if that's what you're riding. It appears Riv doesn't offer the classic 
> single speed crankset anymore.

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[RBW] List Admin-y Things

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Hey there - 

I just found a few list-de-moderation requests in my spam folder. It looks 
like something was triggering the filters...

Anyway - I've unmoderated most of you who requested in the past few weeks, 
so you should be good to go for future interactions. 

A few of you who asked to be unmoderated didn't actually show up as 
members. This is usually caused by using a different email account to joint 
the group. A couple others were just trying to post long, general 
bike-stuff-for-sale lists that were not particularly Riv-adjacent or 
focused. 

To all of you who are now onboard, a hearty Welcome!

Spring is coming, so hang in there through the rains (and blizzards) we are 
experiencing and get riding!  Looking forward to more ride photos and tales.

Jim / List Admin

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[RBW] Re: Favorite Bay Area S24Os?

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Angel Island is an oft-overlooked destination. 
SP Taylor State Park (though in a valley and tends to be a bit damp)
China Camp State Park


On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 10:31:42 AM UTC-8 jesse.b...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hello! I am hoping to do a lot more quick overnight trips this year and 
> was wondering if people had favorite rides and camp spots in the bay area? 
> I have a few Marin sites on my list (Pantoll, Hawk).
>
> I live in SF, but not opposed to taking bart as part of the trip.
>

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Re: [RBW] OK to post non Rivendell bikes for sale here?

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Thanks to those who already responded, but putting on my admin cap:

>2019 Ibis Mojo 3

This would be solidly outside of the selling guidelines for this group. 
Plenty of other places to find an excited buyer for that. 

- J

On Tuesday, January 16, 2024 at 3:05:43 PM UTC-8 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> 2019 Ibis Mojo 3, size large. Fits more like a medium. I am 5’10”. Riv 
> content? My Gus has taken it’s place.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 16, 2024, at 4:38 PM, Steve  wrote:
>
> You've piqued my curiosity - what's the bike?
>
> Steve
>
> On Tuesday, January 16, 2024 at 12:57:17 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> The moderator and others can correct me, but I think that if the bike in 
>> question is relatively aligned with Rivendell tastes and might appeal to 
>> list members -- if it's generally Rivendellian in taste -- it will be fine. 
>> I would not post a FS for a modern CF road bike or downhill mountain bike 
>> here.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 10:41 AM Richard Rose  wrote:
>>
>>> I am still new here & do not want to violate an rules. But, I do have a 
>>> bicycle that I would like to sell and thought others here might be 
>>> interested. I will not post here until I hear if it is acceptable. Thanks! 
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f8769fc7-af87-459d-b2b6-35b43d5e61cdn%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
>> services
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>
>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>
>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>
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> 
> .
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Coaster Brakes for a Beachy Clem Build

[Cyclofiend Jim]

On Monday, December 18, 2023 at 10:15:35 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

The show stoppers that I would fear are:

1. A coaster brake requires a no-tensioner way to take up chain slack.  On 
normal cruisers, that's done with horizontal dropouts.  The Clem has 
vertical dropouts.  


Fixing chain slack on vertical dropouts is easily addressed with a chain 
tensioner. 
https://surlybikes.com/parts/singleator

Or if you want a purpose-built wheel, check out the White ENO hub - 
https://www.whiteind.com/product/eno-flip-flop/

If you go the hub route, you would have to leave the handbrakes in 
place 

J

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[RBW] Re: Coaster Brakes for a Beachy Clem Build

[Cyclofiend Jim]

On Monday, December 18, 2023 at 10:15:35 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

The show stoppers that I would fear are:

1. A coaster brake requires a no-tensioner way to take up chain slack.  On 
normal cruisers, that's done with horizontal dropouts.  The Clem has 
vertical dropouts.  


Fixing chain slack on vertical dropouts is easily addressed with a chain 
tensioner. 
https://surlybikes.com/parts/singleator

Or if you want a purpose-built wheel, check out the White ENO hub - 
https://www.whiteind.com/product/eno-flip-flop/

 

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[RBW] Re: FS: 60 cm Quickbeam

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Ha! It's kind of disconcerting to see a Quickbeam with front and rear 
derailers. 
Front/Rear were the Suzue hubs?

Jim

On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 10:40:18 AM UTC-8 joe kelly wrote:

> On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 1:35:18 PM UTC-5 joe kelly wrote:
>
>>
>> Stuff I forgot to mention; it’s orange, I don’t want to ship it but would 
>> be willing to drive to meet up, I’m in Columbus Ohio, it has set for a few 
>> years now since cycling faded away and golf took over as favorite hobby. 
>> Has jack brown green tires, front one is flat needs a new tube probably, it 
>> won’t pump up. Has a brass bell. 
>> I loved assembling and riding this bike but I just haven’t touched it in 
>> a few years. Just writing this for sale post brought back so many nice 
>> memories. Maybe it can make nice memories for the next owner too. Hope so 
>> anyway.
>> Thanks
>> Joe
>> On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 1:28:00 PM UTC-5 joe kelly wrote:
>>
>>> Hello
>>> I have decided to sell my 60 cm quickbeam. I bought it used and 
>>> customized it with lots of stuff from Rivendell. I had a wheelset made that 
>>> is a 5sp 120 rear hub and a dyno front hub I got from Rivendell with 
>>> velocity twin hollow wheels. It has lightsfront and rear, a sackville 
>>> small, fenders, campee front rack with wall basket and net. Nitto stem with 
>>> albatross bars, nitto post with broooks b17 and randi jo cover. Sugino 
>>> crank with mkx pedals. Original wheelset included too. Bar end shifters and 
>>> cheapy derailers.
>>> $1750 obo
>>> Thanks
>>> Joe
>>>
>>

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[RBW] "Trust, but Verify"

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Putting on the admin cap this morning:

I had a couple of members reach out to me regarding some interactions 
following a "WTB/WTT" posting.

They were contacted directly by a "member" who had just what they wanted. 
Luckily, both of the original posters did a bit of due diligence and 
realized that the images had been pulled from other forums, and the person 
who contacted them had some fairly sketchy responses. Both individuals 
wisely stepped away from the transaction. 

This is a reminder that it's up to you to verify the validity of anyone 
with whom you are dealing. One quick way to do so is by searching 
conversations in this group under the person's email address. In this case 
the "member" who exhibited hinky behavior had been in this group for all of 
6 days. They had not contributed to any conversations and were still 
moderated. 

Bear in mind that a moderated/unknown member can still contact you 
directly. That's what this individual did in these cases. 

As a reminder, if you are engaging in transactions, the onus is upon you to 
confirm identity and validity of the person and conditions. Ask questions. 
Require an image with today's newspaper or some other verifiable, unique 
aspect. Search them in the group. 
In other words, "Trust, but verify."

Thankful, as always, for all of you in this group.

admin mode OFF

Jim

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: QuickBeam 58 cm

[Cyclofiend Jim]

The flat tabs ("Frenchie tabs"? hmmm h'ain't heard that one before) 
were on the orange model for sure - you can see them on mine - 
http://www.cyclofiend.com/ssg/2006/ssg017r2-cyclofiend1006.html

IIRC, the first green runs did not have them. I've definitely seen a few 
that did not sport them.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/philipwilliamson/261885177/in/photostream/

On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 8:32:07 AM UTC-7 robert.har...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> I agree with this sentiment. My 58cm QB is my “core” bike. Hills, long 
> rides, errands — it does most of what I want from a bike and does it very 
> well. Keeping this one is a good idea…
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 27, 2023, at 11:27 AM, Benjamin L. Kelley  
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Honestly, if I was somehow forced to winnow down to one bike, it would be 
> my qb hands down no 2nd thoughts.
> It's a pretty great do about everything except race or full on mtb frame.
>
> Jason, glad you decided to keep it. It's also a great build.
>
> --ben in Kansas City
>
> On Sun, Aug 27, 2023 at 7:28 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
>> APPROVE people keeping their bikes and using them.  
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>> On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 6:52:50 PM UTC-7 jasonz...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> And as it is Friday and I took an awesome joyride around the new area, I 
>>> am calling it quits on calling it quits for this bike.  I can say it is now 
>>> sold, as you all sold me on keeping it.  My plan is to keep riding it more 
>>> now that I'm more confident with the climbs in the immediate area and 
>>> if/when I put on the pass n stow rack and start using it for camping, I'm 
>>> hoping to either: change the front chainring to 40t vs 48 and/or find a 
>>> 16/19 DOS for the rear.  That should give me all that I need for the 
>>> terrain.  For some reason the climbing isn't as bad as I initially assumed 
>>> on the 48-18 and I'll just use the bombora when I'm pulling the baby.
>>>
>>> Im super surprised this didn't sell, glad now that I've made my mind, 
>>> but a head scratcher for sure.
>>>
>>> Glad to get to know you all more, it's always a good learning 
>>> opportunity.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Jason a proud old owner of a new old Quickbeam
>>>
>>> On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 7:03:51 PM UTC-5 Jason Zakaras wrote:
>>>
 Indeed, super clean, it was a gem when I picked it up from you Dylan!  
 I just took a small rip on it and it just glides.  While I think the Rene 
 Herse crank looks brilliant, the 48t is just too stout to have much fun 
 for 
 me now.  I'm kicking myself for getting rid of the 40/32 crank and the 
 17/19 dos... doh!

 If it doesn't sell I think I'm going to change out the chainring to 36t 
 and maybe put a 17/19 dos on it and see if I can have a smile again.  I 
 can 
 put my pull trailer adapter on the bombora and pull the lil one with that 
 too.  hm apostasy!

 On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 6:08:50 PM UTC-5 dylantho...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> For what it's worth - this is my old frame and it's SUPER clean. Jason 
> did a great job in updating it since I sold it to him. 
>
>
> On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 2:42:48 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Jason. I looked them up on the Wolf Tooth site and as far as 
>> I can tell they are made only for mountain bike bars; are yours a road 
>> bike 
>> bar model, or did you just force them on to the bigger bar?
>>
>> About that Quickbeam: I know from experience that you can list and 
>> relist a very nice bike and come away with far less than than expected; 
>> then a month later someone will post a similar bike and get a much 
>> higher 
>> price. This happened when I sold a very nice Sam Hillborne some years 
>> ago. 
>> FWIW.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 3:36 PM Jason Zakaras  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick, they are wolf tooth's silicone grips, I believe the Karv 
>>> maybe fatpaw.  I recently switched all my mtbs over to them and they 
>>> are 
>>> lovely.  Its a nice touch when you're feeling fatigued and can drop 
>>> down 
>>> into a cozy bed for yer hands.  I highly recommend them.
>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
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[RBW] Caveat Emptor - Not just a good idea....

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Caveat Emptor: the principle that the buyer alone is responsible for 
checking the quality and suitability of goods before a purchase is made.

Just to put on my Captain Obvious hat, I want to remind those of you who 
are engaging in transactions here: There is some degree of risk in any 
internet transaction. 

Do your due diligence before sending any money. 
- Do you know the individual?
- Do they have a history of contributing in this group?
- Have you searched for their name and/or email in this group? 

Just because someone figured out how to contact you does not mean they are 
trustworthy. This is a discussion group. It was never set up to provide a 
marketplace with checks against people who take advantage of good-natured 
and trusting folks. You need to take responsibility to protect yourself. 

Now, having said that, we've been remarkably trouble-free in this area, 
mostly because we have a pretty good sense of who is an active member and 
acts as part of the community. 

Be well. Trust, but verify. 

Jim / admin





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Re: [RBW] Re: Wanted post worries

[Cyclofiend Jim]

I have removed a couple of "members" who joined in the last month or so and 
seem to be here only to solicit direct transactions. 

Jim

On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 11:08:48 PM UTC-7 Cyclofiend Jim wrote:

> Just as a reminder, this is a publicly viewable list. 
>
> The contact settings allow members of the group to contact another member. 
> Potentially, someone could join just to do so. That would mean that they 
> likely have not ever posted to the group, as their postings would be 
> moderated until they reach out to me directly. 
>
> If the person shows no history of activity in the group, I'd strongly 
> encourage you to confirm they are legitimate. You can easily search by 
> member name or email. 
>
> JIm / admin
> On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 10:52:53 PM UTC-7 melissa...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Bummer. This post came a few days too late. Anita made off with 37 of my 
>> hard-earned dollars and no cork grips in sight :'(
>>
>> On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 11:16:20 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>>
>>> Can you even tell if someone posts often, other than just being familiar 
>>> with their name? I've been on here for a couple of years but also don't 
>>> really post much. I find that most questions I might have are often 
>>> answered by a quick search and review of old threads. There is a wealth of 
>>> knowledge on this group. It's hard to know if someone is trying to scam 
>>> you. I guess using PayPal or some form of protected payment is the way to 
>>> go. 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 11:00:09 AM UTC-4 jrst...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> I better post more often as I like selling on this list and giving good 
>>>> deals. It seems scams are all around us. 
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:30:31 AM UTC-4 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ted Wood,
>>>>>
>>>>> I got caught up in a spider web with Anita Batya most recently for 
>>>>> those *REW10 WORKS* hex brass valve caps . I was taken for a real 
>>>>> agitating tail spin with her. Still waiting for an answer from Paypal for 
>>>>> a 
>>>>> refund to finalize my interests with her. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Kim Hetzel
>>>>> Yelm, WA. 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 4:38:13 AM UTC-7 ted.l...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Always check the members list at https://groups.google.come before 
>>>>>> replying to wanted post DMs. I was recently scammed out of a *whopping* 
>>>>>> $17 
>>>>>> by not following my own advice. Watch for Anita as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 15, 2023 at 2:07 PM larson@gmail.com <
>>>>>> larson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I had similar responses to my post. Eduardo wanted to sell me an 
>>>>>>> Atlantis MIT frameset for $600.
>>>>>>> Randy in WI
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 12:58:44 PM UTC-5 Josh C wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's good to be careful. It's a weird world these days. 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 12:50:16 PM UTC-4 Lucky wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Greetings all, 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I posted a want ad yesterday for an Albastache bar and got a 
>>>>>>>>> couple responses from people I’ve never seen here before. I do know 
>>>>>>>>> there 
>>>>>>>>> are lurkers on the list so if Denise and Eduardo Garcia are members 
>>>>>>>>> here 
>>>>>>>>> please follow up with more info. 
>>>>>>>>> It’s a shame we have to worry about scammers all the time now and 
>>>>>>>>> my apologies if I am wrong. 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Liz in Sacramento 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>>>>>>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/52f64998-5ffc-42ca-bc50-550556fd3a0an%40googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/52f64998-5ffc-42ca-bc50-550556fd3a0an%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Ted Wood < ted.l...@gmail.com >
>>>>>>
>>>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Wanted post worries

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Just as a reminder, this is a publicly viewable list. 

The contact settings allow members of the group to contact another member. 
Potentially, someone could join just to do so. That would mean that they 
likely have not ever posted to the group, as their postings would be 
moderated until they reach out to me directly. 

If the person shows no history of activity in the group, I'd strongly 
encourage you to confirm they are legitimate. You can easily search by 
member name or email. 

JIm / admin
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 10:52:53 PM UTC-7 melissa...@gmail.com wrote:

> Bummer. This post came a few days too late. Anita made off with 37 of my 
> hard-earned dollars and no cork grips in sight :'(
>
> On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 11:16:20 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>
>> Can you even tell if someone posts often, other than just being familiar 
>> with their name? I've been on here for a couple of years but also don't 
>> really post much. I find that most questions I might have are often 
>> answered by a quick search and review of old threads. There is a wealth of 
>> knowledge on this group. It's hard to know if someone is trying to scam 
>> you. I guess using PayPal or some form of protected payment is the way to 
>> go. 
>>
>> On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 11:00:09 AM UTC-4 jrst...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I better post more often as I like selling on this list and giving good 
>>> deals. It seems scams are all around us. 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 9:30:31 AM UTC-4 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Ted Wood,

 I got caught up in a spider web with Anita Batya most recently for 
 those *REW10 WORKS* hex brass valve caps . I was taken for a real 
 agitating tail spin with her. Still waiting for an answer from Paypal for 
 a 
 refund to finalize my interests with her. 

 Kim Hetzel
 Yelm, WA. 



 On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 4:38:13 AM UTC-7 ted.l...@gmail.com wrote:

> Always check the members list at https://groups.google.come before 
> replying to wanted post DMs. I was recently scammed out of a *whopping* 
> $17 
> by not following my own advice. Watch for Anita as well.
>
> On Sat, Jul 15, 2023 at 2:07 PM larson@gmail.com <
> larson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I had similar responses to my post. Eduardo wanted to sell me an 
>> Atlantis MIT frameset for $600.
>> Randy in WI
>>
>> On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 12:58:44 PM UTC-5 Josh C wrote:
>>
>>> It's good to be careful. It's a weird world these days. 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 12:50:16 PM UTC-4 Lucky wrote:
>>>
 Greetings all, 

 I posted a want ad yesterday for an Albastache bar and got a couple 
 responses from people I’ve never seen here before. I do know there are 
 lurkers on the list so if Denise and Eduardo Garcia are members here 
 please 
 follow up with more info. 
 It’s a shame we have to worry about scammers all the time now and 
 my apologies if I am wrong. 

 Liz in Sacramento 
>>>
>>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/52f64998-5ffc-42ca-bc50-550556fd3a0an%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
> -- 
> Ted Wood < ted.l...@gmail.com >
>


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[RBW] Re: [SFRandon] OT - recovered Rivendell Atlantis

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Ha... you beat me to it. 
Thanks Eric.



On Thursday, June 22, 2023 at 8:22:46 AM UTC-7 campyo...@me.com wrote:

> Forwarding from another email list … 
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com
> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From: *Eric Larsen 
> *Subject: **[SFRandon] OT - recovered Rivendell Atlantis*
> *Date: *June 22, 2023 at 7:36:25 AM PDT
> *To: *San Francisco Randonneurs 
> *Reply-To: *ciren...@gmail.com
>
> If you know anyone who had a Rivendell Atlantis stolen from them, please 
> have them contact me off list to identify.
> Eric
>
> -- 
> -- 
> This message is from the San Francisco Randonneurs list at 
> sfra...@googlegroups.com
> Search the archives at http://groups.google.com/group/sfrandon
> For SFR's schedule and general information, visit 
> http://sfrandonneurs.org/
> To unsubscribe, email sfrandon+u...@googlegroups.com
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sfrandon/CAPyocvW3WeBX2xJVWM%3DsBMBo0wVDeqReScLTy64U3T6irONfgw%40mail.gmail.com
>  
> 
> .
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Cyclofiend Jim]

I still hold in my mind the comment that GP wrote many years ago:

"A bike with no scratches has no stories to tell..."


On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 3:15:18 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Did you read Grant’s Blahg? He covers a lot of ground, but most notable to 
> me was the Please Don’t Be Precious About Your Rivendell section. In sum, 
> Grant is saying it saddens him to think of people riding beater bikes 
> instead of their Rivendells to do daily, monotonous tasks - because those 
> tasks make up a lot of real life. If one “saves” their Rivendell, it will 
> not realize its potential, sit mostly unused and then pass to one’s heirs 
> who will sell it in “near mint” condition on EBay, and how sad. What was 
> the bike for?
>
> I have found myself both guilty and innocent on the matter. My #1 favorite 
> bike is my raspberry Platypus. I ride it all the time, because I bought it 
> to ride it, but I also dread any harm coming to it, and I do guard it from 
> that. I got a second Platypus that I dedicated to shopping and traveling 
> with and promised not to be precious about it. But now and then I still am 
> tempted to backslide. When traveling to the Philly Bike Expo I dithered 
> about which bike to bring. I didn’t want my raspberry Platy damaged while 
> locked up at racks and I feared it being stolen. Roberta said, “I don’t 
> think you have a choice, Leah. That’s the bike people will expect you to 
> bring.” And she was right, and I did. 
>
> Then, there is Pam. Pam is at the other far end of the spectrum. Her bike 
> is a model of beausage. Innumerable paint chips and little spots of rust 
> cover her tiny Betty frame. Her Backabike bags are full of holes and the 
> elastic closures are worn out. She locks it up and never worries about it. 
> She did not obsessively stare out the restaurant window to see if it was 
> still locked to the rack while we were at dinner (like yours truly). But 
> she loves her bike, has real affection for it. She looked at me, eyes 
> shining, and said exactly that. Ana, PurpleRiv, is another good example to 
> us. She adores her bike, but has not spared it from hard work. Her bike has 
> hauled obscene loads and taken her everywhere. I remember there was that 
> one fateful camping trip for she 1. Posed it for a photo, only to have it 
> topple and slide down the face of a boulder next to it. I believe she said 
> she sat there and wept for 2 hours over her Joe Bell paint. And who among 
> us would not do the same? 2. Same trip, another photo op, and the bike fell 
> off a cliff. 
>
> So, who truly loves their Rivendell? The one who lavishes it with care and 
> protection? Or the one who pulls it out of the garage and into all of life 
> - the mundane and the adventurous? 
>
> On one end of the spectrum we have those who will only take a Rivendell 
> out for special occasions so as not to spoil it, and on the other…well, we 
> have Pam and Ana, who will give it a good thrashing. (Oh, don’t take it 
> personally, friends, I’m being funny about both types of owners.)
>
> I find myself wanting to be precious but fighting it and succeeding *most* 
> of the time. I’m lucky that the raspberry paint hides beausage and dirt, so 
> it looks pretty new. But a dent in the top tube or a large chip in the 
> paint would really hurt my feelings. Heaven help me. 
>
> Where are you on the spectrum? What words of wisdom might you have? What 
> strategies do you employ? Do you want to change? Or are you 
> unapologetically staying put on the matter? It might be fun to hear 
> perspectives.
> Leah
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Red Toyo Atlantis?

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Ha! I'd forgotten about that. Gino has been been the temporary steward of a 
lot of very interesting bikes over the years... 

J


On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 12:42:15 PM UTC-8 Jeremy Till wrote:

> I *think* this bike was formerly owned by (former list member?) Gino 
> Zahnd, as evidenced by this photo from 2013, which I faved at the time: 
>
> https://flic.kr/p/f8fyGT
>
> Gino does reference selling it in the comments on the photo.  
>
> -Jeremy Till
> Sacramento, CA
>
> On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 9:27:02 AM UTC-8 homer...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I very curious about this bike. Honestly, I’ve just never seen a red 
>> Atlantis?
>> Does Anyone know what year this bike was made?
>>
>> Thanx folks 
>>
>>
>> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/d/vallejo-rivendell-atlantis-58/7578102714.html
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis Old vs New?

[Cyclofiend Jim]

The "2" was on the first Atlantii, to acknowledge that the name had been 
used in the past by Bridgestone 

I have the old Atlantis page yonder - 
http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis/index.html

There are a few scans of the pertinent flyers.

J
On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 11:47:45 AM UTC-7 MisterMo wrote:

> Is there a place to go to get Atlantis history and updates over the years? 
> ie, was there a Waterford Atlantis? Atlantis to Atlantis2 was? Did Toyo 
> produce Atlanti with both the roundy lugs and the pointy lugs?  How does 
> one tell the difference between Toyo, MIT and Wford? etc, etc. Thanks for 
> pointing me to a place with this info (or providing it here).  
>
> On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 4:22:39 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:
>
>> I don't have an atlantis - but for a long time rode a crust romancuer, 
>> which was somewhat based off the old atlantis's. I thought it was the bees 
>> knees for a long time, but never felt right *for me* especially while 
>> trying to use upright bars. It felt amazing with drops however. Due to neck 
>> injuries and unable to set the bike up in it's best form decided to trade 
>> my Romanceur for a Clementine. It is a day and night difference of ride 
>> with boscos and long top tube and wheelbase. 
>>
>> My summarization would be: 
>>
>> For drop bar setup - an older atlantis would be nice. There are a more 
>> similar bikes available like the older atlantis frames. AKA large tire 
>> clearance touring bikes. Bassi Le Montreal, Crust Romancuer, etc. 
>>
>> For upright bars - the long wheelbase and top tube rivs truly shine in 
>> their comfort, performance, and handling. I don't think there are a lot of 
>> bikes out there outside of rivendell with similar wheelbase and handling 
>> characteristics. I get a bit annoyed with the constant rebuttal that 
>> "they're just over priced 80's mountain bikes" - but they took everything 
>> good about 80s mountain bikes and improved it. Longer wheelbases and top 
>> tubes. Better steering geometry. Higher head tubes. More clearance for 
>> larger tires. Lots of braze on options for racks and bags. etc. 
>>
>> On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 8:32:06 AM UTC-7 Ken Yokanovich wrote:
>>
>>> I have a 61cm Toyo-built Atlantis. I had not ridden the bike for about 3 
>>> years due to some unexpected life change circumstances and then a 
>>> repaint/rebuild. I also have a latest-generation 57cm Appaloosa that I have 
>>> owned and ridden during those 3 years for recreation, errands, and 
>>> commuting. The current generation MIT Atlantis is very similar to 
>>> Appaloosa.   I recently got the Atlantis back from a repaint, and it has 
>>> been fun to compare the two bikes. 
>>>
>>> Atlantis
>>> I have ridden this bike for recreation, commuting, and have done several 
>>> loaded tours on it. I like it a lot, I *don't LOVE* it. At least not 
>>> for recreational riding. I tend to grab something else when it's time to go 
>>> play.  (I also own Rivendell: Custom - All Rounder, Custom - Road, Frank 
>>> Jones, HubbuHubbuH, Platypus) Tire widths have ranged 35-48mm. It seems to 
>>> handle a lot better with the wider tires, particularly when descending 
>>> hills on gravel. It *IS *my go to bike for loaded touring and when I 
>>> travel. (This is a weird combination of opposing purposes that I am 
>>> constantly struggling with.) I prefer the position of drop bars and 
>>> appreciate multiple hand options for multi-day rides and long hours in the 
>>> saddle. The more "aerodynamic" position is something MUCH appreciated for 
>>> those eventual day-long headwinds. The bike does have toe overlap with the 
>>> fenders, but this has never been a big deal for me. For the most part, I 
>>> would have a hard time telling you which of my bikes did/didn't.
>>> [image: Atlantis Full.png]
>>>
>>> Appaloosa
>>> I bought the Appaloosa as the keep-handy grab-n-go bike. My confidence 
>>> in upright handlebars was bolstered by the experience of riding and touring 
>>> on the HubbuHubbuH. I like the Bosco bars way more than I expected I ever 
>>> would.  I keep the Appaloosa parked in front of the car making it an easy 
>>> choice for errands and commuting. Unexpectedly, I have found myself riding 
>>> the Appaloosa for recreation too.  The bike rides much "lighter" and 
>>> "faster" than I expected it would.  If I hadn't just got the Atlantis ready 
>>> for summer touring, I would like to try taking the Appaloosa on a 
>>> fully-loaded tour. I think the more casual ride mood that it inspires might 
>>> encourage me to cut back on ambitious daily mileage goals when touring.
>>> [image: Appaloosa.png]
>>>
>>> Summary 
>>> Both bikes provide a lot of enjoyment. If forced to choose between the 
>>> Atlantis or Appaloosa, I would select the Appaloosa. 
>>> What's next or what would I do differently?  I have thought about buying 
>>> another Appaloosa from the next batch and building it up for loaded touring 
>>> so I could reconfigure the 

[RBW] Re: SF Bay Area Trail status update

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Beautiful. 
The spring this year is erupting!

J


On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 11:29:23 AM UTC-7 Brendan Willard in SF wrote:

> [image: IMG_4868.JPG]
>
> On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 11:28:34 AM UTC-7 Brendan Willard in SF wrote:
>
>> [image: IMG_4870.JPG]
>>
>> On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 11:27:45 AM UTC-7 Brendan Willard in SF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Glorious in the Headlands!
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_4874.JPG]
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: How to determine the year my Riv was built

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Looks like I was off by a year - the Bleriot run ended in 2008 - for those 
interested, there's a link to that thread on the Bleriot page I referenced
https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/mQqL-yBsg_Y

It was kind of an odd arrangement, as it was sold through QBP, which was 
the major US wholesaler of bike equipment at the time (they may still 
be...) 
As you likely know, they were the Taiwan-built version of a a Saluki, a 
model which got folded into the 650B end of the first version of the 
Hilsen. 

I'm not sure if QBP ordered a few runs, or if they just sold through the 
original order. 

Jim / cyclofiend




On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 5:33:30 PM UTC-7 tob...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks for the info. If they were a single production run bike, then my 
> question is almost a moot point. 
>
> On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 4:44:24 PM UTC-7 Cyclofiend Jim wrote:
>
>> Bleriots were only produced for a few years. It may have only been one 
>> run.
>> aught-6 to aught-9 IIRC
>> http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/bleriot/index.html
>>
>> On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 4:24:08 PM UTC-7 tob...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I own a Bleriot that I purchased second hand, and was curious if there's 
>>> is a way to determine the year it's from?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: How to determine the year my Riv was built

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Bleriots were only produced for a few years. It may have only been one run.
aught-6 to aught-9 IIRC
http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/bleriot/index.html

On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 4:24:08 PM UTC-7 tob...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I own a Bleriot that I purchased second hand, and was curious if there's 
> is a way to determine the year it's from?
>
> Thanks!
>

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[RBW] List Housekeeping: Hotmail and AOL accounts may be problematic

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Was cleaning up old spam folders and turned up a few messages from members 
asking why they had been banned from the group. 

They were not people I recall banning (I do actually have a list, and it's 
relatively short - thank you all!), so I checked my admin tools to see 
their status.

None of them showed up on the roster of banned emails.

More oddly, none of them showed up on the list of members (which includes 
"banned" address profiles in addition to active moderated/unmoderated 
members). 

Since 100% of those contacting me about not being able to log in and post 
had either @hotmail or @aol accounts, I'm figuring that there's some issue 
related to that. And I can't really solve that for anyone. 

Just to be explicit - 
You must be logged into your google account to post to this group. 
You may have to figure out why google is no longer recognizing aol or 
hotmail. 

Hope that points you in the right direction!

Jim / list admin




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[RBW] Re: PSA: Watch our for scammers in the group

[Cyclofiend Jim]

In the more general sense, I have not received any feedback from active 
members that this was an issue.
It strikes me as part of the due diligence of anyone selling or buying on 
any internet-based group to confirm that someone is who they say they are.

>From the description of this particular problem, it doesn't seem like 
there's a reasonable fix. We can't guard against everyone on the internet 
scraping contact info. If someone off-list contacts you, I'd be wary. But 
that's just good internet hygiene.

Just to be clear - I do not "vet" people on this list. I ask that they take 
the time to reach out and ask to be unmoderated. That seems to self-select 
those who would just want to sell something and leave. 

Honestly, in recent I've been tightening up which FS posts I let through. 
Riv bikes and Nitto and RBW-sold items, sure. But piles of generic road 
components? Yeah...no... Or the person who was trying to sell a C'dale FS 
MTB? No...no. 

For those who have been here a while with full posting permission, I have 
no interest in policing what is getting bought and sold. it is my belief 
that the more the total number of threads skew towards buy/sell, the less 
of an asset this group becomes. I also realize that many appreciate that 
aspect of this group.

Locking this thread. 

Be well, go ride!

Jim 
/admin


On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 9:01:01 AM UTC-7 Cyclofiend Jim wrote:

> On Monday, April 10, 2023 at 5:29:03 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
> I was aware that anyone could view the forums but I (wrongly) assumed that 
> only members could post or message other members
>
>
> Specific to this comment:
> - This is a publicly viewable group
> - Non-members cannot post
> - All new members are moderated (and believe me, not all move past that 
> point...)
> - If you post contact information in your post, it will be viewable.
>
>  
>

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[RBW] Re: PSA: Watch our for scammers in the group

[Cyclofiend Jim]

On Monday, April 10, 2023 at 5:29:03 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:

I was aware that anyone could view the forums but I (wrongly) assumed that 
only members could post or message other members


Specific to this comment:
- This is a publicly viewable group
- Non-members cannot post
- All new members are moderated (and believe me, not all move past that 
point...)
- If you post contact information in your post, it will be viewable.

 

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[RBW] Re: New build: 1985 Bridgestone MB-2

[Cyclofiend Jim]

On Monday, February 13, 2023 at 9:19:51 AM UTC-8 Jose wrote:
Amazing build! Did Grant P design the 1985 MB-1 and MB-2? 


No - those were more of a "legacy" design. The MB's in '85 still had the 
long wheelbase design which was the norm in those days. IIRC, the '87 was 
his first full frame design.

1985 - 
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1985/pages/19-bridgestone-mb-1.html
1987 (with drop bars no less)
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1987/pages/bridgestone-1987-13.htm
 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bombadil and Hunqapillar origins: The definitive thread

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Yes. My recollection was that Bomba was coming out when it was "suggested" 
that those names were IP, so IIRC it was the last of the Tolkien names.

Grant shared the Hunkapiller mailbox story with me verbally during a visit 
to RBWHQ It was the same as he later wrote in one of the Readers. 

The first Hunqapillar I ever saw came out with grey frame and orange.
I had some images over on my (goodness gracious it's still THERE?) Flickr 
feed - 
https://www.flickr.com/search/?user_id=93409214%40N00_all=1=hunqapillar

There were both TTT (Twin Top Tube) and Diagatube frames when I visited. 
IIRC, Grant said it was going to be diagatube only in production - this 
image shows an unpainted model - 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclofiend/4713714578/in/photolist-8bx281-8btKnk-8btKpk-7NNCR6-cqiLDG-7NVfpo-oiwPmQ-7NVgrq-7NVfuj-7NVgwQ-7NRh2g-7NRhHe-7NRgWB
(taken mid-2010)

For completeness - here's a tall Bomba with the TTT and that gorgeous 
kidney bean red - 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclofiend/4207455573/in/photolist-7pNiXt-7pSegm-7pNiYF

J


On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 1:41:43 PM UTC-8 Jay Lonner wrote:

> This is the story that I’ve heard. And while I do love the name and woolly 
> mammoth iconography, it does feel like a missed opportunity when Oliphaunt 
> was right there. (But maybe they had already gotten a cease-and-desist from 
> the Tolkien estate at that point?)
>
> In any case, it’s great seeing the Hunqapillar get some attention — I sure 
> love mine. And I also appreciate the link to John Watson’s build on the 
> Radavist. He mentions wanting to track down an 8-speed specific White 
> Industries freehub. So here’s where I confess to some gaps in my knowledge 
> — are current generation rear hubs incompatible with 8-speed cassettes? I 
> had assumed that the freehub dimensions were constant, and that the 
> cassettes and chains just got narrower with more gears. But evidently 
> that’s not the case, presumably leading to a rear wheel with more dish? I 
> like my 3x8 setup quite well for the Hunq, and am wondering whether I need 
> to be on the lookout for spares if there’s no way to retrofit contemporary 
> components.
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA
>
> Sent from my Atari 400
>
> On Dec 11, 2022, at 11:52 AM, J J  wrote:
>
> Re: the mailbox — I believe Grant was on a tour and saw the name 
> “Hunkapiller” on a mailbox. Forgot where. He changed the spelling for the 
> bike.
>
>
>
> On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 2:17:05 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Ricky — The mailbox thing is new to me, interested to learn more if 
>> others have insight. 
>>
>> Laing — That is a beauty of a Bombadil and I really appreciate you have 
>> the screenshot from when you bought it. That's the kind of receipt I like. 
>> Please keep us updated on how it handles with the very wide drops and other 
>> changes. Congrats on your traverse of FL on that bike! 
>>
>> Brian — Thanks for the info! Definitely appropriate for the thread, I'd 
>> say. I'm surprised Sackville is a reference to LOTR, never would have 
>> guessed it. I think I'd heard of the rest, but only through reading about 
>> Riv over the years. And I was aware of Rivendell Mountain Works as a point 
>> of inspiration as well. 
>>
>> Thanks, Eliot! I've got two videos in the hopper. Apologies for the 
>> erratic upload schedule. I enjoy documenting my projects but I don't want 
>> to be a full-time YouTube person. 
>> On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 12:39:36 PM UTC-5 eliot...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Eric when are we going to see another YouTube video ? I really admire 
>>> your style and have even learned a few tricks from your excellent build 
>>> videos. Sorry for the tangent.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 8:42:59 AM UTC-8 brok...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Eric, I hope this doesn't derail your thread too much, but I though I 
>>>> might try to address your Tolkien question. As I'm sure many of us here 
>>>> are, I've long been a big Tolkien nerd, but I wouldn't consider myself an 
>>>> expert... I'd say I'm pretty well-versed, though!
>>>> I know Grant has always maintained that he named Rivendell BW out of 
>>>> his appreciation for the old Rivendell Mountain Works catalogs (no doubt a 
>>>> main inspiration for the Riv Readers and model catalogs / brochures). But 
>>>> then, he also has taken quite a few liberties with the Tolkien property 
>>>> names and references. Here's a short list of all the ones I can think of, 
>>>> but there may be others:
>>>>
>>>> Rivendell: the magical refuge of the Elv

[RBW] Re: Orange Ram touchup paint

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Not sure on that one. 

Note that the orange Ram was a layered paint job. Very tough to actually 
"match". 

Jim

On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 12:14:57 PM UTC-8 cdres...@gmail.com wrote:

> Checked some older postings and cyclofriend who recommended Boyds Roadser 
> Florida Orange Pearl but appears to be out of stock. Anyone tried Boyd's 
> Orange Pearl Enamel?
>

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[RBW] Re: Bleriot Touch Up Paint?

[Cyclofiend Jim]

There was a nail enamel which worked well - back when I posted this page:
http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/color.html

- J

On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 11:46:39 AM UTC-8 fmar...@gmail.com wrote:

> I remember seeing something about a Testors model paint color that matched 
> up really well with the Bleriot aqua color. I can't find it now, do any 
> Bleriot owners have any idea?
>
> Thanks,
> Fred
> Mount Prospect, IL
>

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[RBW] Re: Appaloosa Purple Prose

[Cyclofiend Jim]

If you have detailed photos of the fork, I think it would be appropriate to 
post those as well. 

Jim / list admin

On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 7:11:00 PM UTC-8 Matthew Williams wrote:

> Oh, where to begin? I owned this bike for approximately two months. Here’s 
> what happened:
>
> A few months ago, I bought this Appaloosa (identical to my current whip) 
> from the original owner and shipped the bike via BikeFlights. But when UPS 
> delivered it, I braced myself for disappointment: the box had a tire track 
> across one side, the top and sides were torn, and a large hole had been 
> haphazardly patched with several strips of clear packing tape. 
>
> I took photos as I carefully unpacked the bike. A truck had backed over 
> the bike: the seatstays, chainstays, rear rack, and fork were badly bent, 
> the front wheel was crushed, and the frame was visibly deformed and out of 
> alignment. BikeFlights reimbursed me for the shipping costs and what I paid 
> for the bike. To fulfill the claim, BikeFlights sent me a shipping label, 
> and directed me to repack and ship the crushed bike to a non-profit 
> organization.
>
> I don’t know the concatenation of circumstances, but the bike is once 
> again for sale—the frame and forks have been fixed and the front wheel has 
> been replaced. To be clear, I neither question the integrity or the 
> worksmanship of the builder who straightened the frame, nor am I accusing 
> the seller or anyone involved of malice, deception, or anything untoward. 
>
> The purpose of this note is so interested purchasers can make an informed 
> decision. If I was considering buying this bike, I’d want someone to warn 
> me. 
>
> [image: IMG_3007.jpg][image: IMG_3018.jpg][image: IMG_3014.jpg]
>
>

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[RBW] A Few Thoughts About FS posts

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Hey there - 

Just slipping on my admin cap because I'm noticing a trend:

There has been an increase in "no-price" For Sale posts which have ended up 
in the queue. While I don't feel they are made in anything other than good 
faith, it potentially changes the nature of this group to an auction house. 
There are other websites which do that.

I've also noticed a number of Sale listing attempts (again, caught in the 
review queue as they are from newer members (or those who never posted 
before) for pretty general gear. That's much more of a grey area, as we all 
end up with extra bike stuff. But there have been a number of "swap meet" 
style posts that get pretty broad, or are even introduced with "I've 
cross-posted this into..." 

For the second condition, I'll admit more leeway for those who share images 
and ride reports and the things that make this a valuable place. 

For the first issue, moving forward if something is listed for sale without 
a clear asking price and lands in the queue, I'm going to not pass it 
through. And might ask non-moderated posters to specify a price if a 
listing is not clear. 

For reference - in this last batch of ~20 posts which landed in moderation, 
there were 6 which had no-price-gimmee-an-offer text. 

Thanks!

Jim / list admin


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[RBW] Re: Your cyclist vs. motorist war/horror stories

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Putting on the Admin Cap...

In the past I've pulled threads like this as they veered quickly and 
strongly off topic and tended to end up in Polemic-ville. 

I'd like to remind everyone, particularly newer members, of the narrower 
focus of this group. It's by design and has generally served us well for 
many years. General topics outside of Rivendell Bicycle Works are best 
covered in more general groups such as iBob, etc. 

Whether driver obliviousness or intentional maliciousness, we are unlikely 
to solve it here. 

I thank those who have shared stories and maintained a moderated tone so 
far, and I'll ask that any other member consider before posting whether 
adding to this thread is helpful. 

Thank you. 
Jim / Admin

On Sunday, October 9, 2022 at 9:41:46 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> *First of all I'd like to note that starting this thread might not be a 
> great idea. But perhaps it would be a way for us to share some experiences, 
> vent or commiserate. *
>
> Well, I think a lot of us have been there. We've had a weird, scary, 
> too-close-for-comfort interaction with a motorist. It could be due to 
> driver inattention or downright overt aggression. It could have been your 
> fault or no fault of your own. Do you have a riding story involving a 
> motorist you'd like to share? 
>
> I live in Fredericksburg, VA, a small city built on a grid. We have an 
> historic district here, many streets are narrow with one-way traffic. There 
> are a few two-lane arteries designed to move cars. Posted speeds are 25 mph 
> (I always drive slower and leave my truck in 2nd gear). People drive like 
> maniacs on certain residential streets, sometimes reaching 50mph. I often 
> wish for more traffic calming infrastructure, crosswalks, speed tables and 
> the like. 
>
> In March 2021 I was riding my bike to the bike shop, about a 1.5 mile 
> trip. I was heading down a one-way street through a residential 
> neighborhood with street parking on the right and long, grassy, landscaped 
> park on the left. I was riding to the right side of the street. This 
> section of road has one lane and it is unusually wide. There is room for 
> someone to comfortably pass a cyclist. 
>
> Someone honked their horn at me but not in the "Hi, heads up, I'm about to 
> pass you please and thanks" sort of way but the "Get the fork off the 
> road!" kind of way. It was startling. I responded by taking the lane, which 
> is legal for cyclists in Virginia. I rode dead center in the middle of the 
> lane. I hoisted a one-finger salute and carried on riding. I rode in the 
> middle of the lane for approximately 100 feet before making a turn. 
>
> Yes, this was an escalation. And it was a bad decision. I don't think I'm 
> alone in feeling frustrated by displays of impatience and aggression from 
> drivers and feel that I have certain rights as a human person to ride 
> safely. It is sometimes difficult not to react in the moment. Motorists 
> might be not only impatient but totally deranged. Road rage is real. And 
> drivers are behind the wheel of a vehicle that is easily weaponized. With 
> just a feather of the gas pedal or a slight turn of the wheel they can 
> inflict irrevocable damage to a cyclist. 
>
> The driver responded to my salute by getting within a few feet of my back 
> wheel. When I  made a turn to carry on to the bike shop, they followed. I 
> could hear them revving their engine behind me and feathering the gas to 
> get close to my back wheel but not quite hit me. I continued to ride in the 
> middle of the road. 
>
> I heard something hit the street next to me. It was an unopened aluminum 
> can of a carbonated beverage (I didn't go back to check out whether it was 
> soda, beer or seltzer). Acknowledging the projectile I decided I had to 
> bail and get up on the sidewalk or somehow turn around to where the car 
> could not get to me. 
>
> As soon as I moved to the side to take a driveway apron up onto the 
> sidewalk the car passed me, then got right in front of me and slammed on 
> their brakes. I braked hard and managed not to do an endo onto their trunk 
> or hit their vehicle. The straddle cable hanger came loose from the front 
> brake cable. The driver sped off. I did not get their plates. 
>
> A few days later I went around the neighborhood and knocked on every door 
> with a doorbell camera that was along the path of my interaction with the 
> driver. Everyone I asked checked their footage but only one came back with 
> anything showing me or the driver. There was a clip of the driver revving 
> their engine behind me and throwing the can. You can see the can fly 
> through the air and hear it land in the street. I got a good profile shot 
> of the car (2005 Acura TL, maroon with custom window trim), but no view of 
> the tags. 
>
> This is, by far, the worst interaction I've had with a motorist. I've only 
> been riding for a few years. There are others that aren't nearly as bad but 
> still register 

[RBW] Re: I'm curious about the very early, blue Bombadil prototype

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Never actually saw that bike blue bike in person.That was definitely an 
early proto. The photo was in DirtRag Mag (print version), so you know 
there was a delay for printing.

The specifics definitely changed from that. IIRC, the bike had 
fundamentally changed even before that article ran.

This has 2 sizes of the the clear coat version 
- http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2008/cc452-bombadilproto0208.html
A 52 and a 60 from February 2008 at RBWHQ - I think that was pretty close 
to the dimensions in the one you shared. It did have the single top tube, 
which was changed before production. 

This early aught-nine version (with swept-back bars, mind you...) had the 
2TT.
http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2009/cc626-martygierke0309.html

Gino was riding a proto in 2008 which had the 2TT
http://chicogino.blogspot.com/2008/05/rivendell-bombadil-my-two-week-fling.html

J

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 6:22:27 PM UTC-7 Chris L wrote:

> I think the only images I've seen of the blue Bombadil prototype is from 
> an article posted on the Cyclofiend website.  
>
> Does anyone here own that bike?  Anyone know what size it was (52cm, 56cm, 
> other???)
>
> Was it the same basic geometry as the clear coated bikes?  
>
> [image: Bombadil.jpg]
>

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[RBW] Price Drop - Re: FS: Timbuk2 Messenger/Commuter Bag - Blue/Black - NOW $75 Shipped to CONUS

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Had two local CL folks flake on this last week, and I'd much rather sell 
this to a group member. So how's about one of them fancy retailer Labor Day 
Sale things... 
Was $95 shipped. Now $75 shipped. 

DM me. 

On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 5:41:15 PM UTC-7 Cyclofiend Jim wrote:

> I've had this for a few years, but it has seen little use. I probably used 
> it while riding once or twice, but more as a travel/plane bag. Of all my 
> messenger bags, this one has the fewest miles on it. Was digging into the 
> closet for something else and this tumbled down off the top shelf. It 
> deserves to see some use and it is not getting it from me. 
>
> There's not really a directly comparable current model. This was a more 
> "digital nomad" design - with a briefcase handle (in addition to the 
> shoulder strap) and a slot through the back pad where you can run the 
> handle of a rollaway bag up through it. The one design flaw is that it did 
> not have a sternum strap, which meant it tended to shift when using as a 
> bike-specific bag. 
>
> Mid-bright blue and black. Customized with a "Just Ride" fabric sticker. 
> It has the nicely detailed flap with velcro adjustable corners. Mild taper 
> to the base and super-rugged scuff fabric on the base. It is a nylon 
> ballistic type cloth throughout (no waxed cotton here). Mid-divider and 
> zippered full length pocket, as well as both internal and external gadget 
> and go-go-gadget pockets. Small reflective tabs on the clip adjusters. Key 
> fob clip. Hydration bottle pocket on the exterior.
>
> Approximate size when folded down:
> 18" w x 12" h
> Can hold a pretty hefty amount of stuff. 
>
> $95 shipped to the CONUS
>
> One image attached here - if you want to see more, please follow the link 
> to this album
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/whvEM7xZ85MgS6KJA
>
> I will delete this post when this sells, so if you are reading this, I'm 
> either waiting for payment or it's yours if you email/contact me directly. 
>
> Cyclofiend 
>
> at GEEEMAIL dot Com (except you need to spell it right) 
>
> Thanks for looking -
>
> Jim
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Ha. Yeah. Good point. 
Definitely SF Bay Area where things are reasonably dry and dusty.

I will say that have run that through some fairly wet brevets and did use 
those when I used the AHH for CX.
We had some muddy days - https://flic.kr/p/61iVgT


On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-7 Josiah Anderson wrote:

> I agree with Eric and others who find the 559s lacking in stopping power. 
> They're more or less good enough in dry conditions, but if it's wet, not so 
> much, and they're even worse in the snow. One of my scariest bike 
> experiences ever was on a 650b conversion of an old Trek with 559s (with 
> salmon pads), coming down a long hill with a busy intersection at the 
> bottom. It was raining, and having recently switched to the Tektros from 
> Mafac Racers, I was expecting my brakes to work, but they didn't. I went 
> through the intersection at probably 35mph, and I managed to make the turn 
> and somehow there were no cars, but it still freaked me out. The 559s don't 
> seem to be able to squeeze hard enough to create enough friction to dry off 
> wet rims in a revolution or two like most other (good) rim brakes do, so 
> they just keep skating on top of the layer of water. Same deal for ice, 
> although there are fewer brakes that do well with that.
>
> I've noticed that it seems like many of the people who like the 559s ride 
> in relatively dry places and many of us who regularly deal with wet and 
> freezing conditions find them inadequate. That's just my hypothesis on the 
> wide variety of opinions on these brakes; I know not everyone fits this 
> pattern.
>
> (Apologies if this post comes through late- I post frequently on IBOB but 
> not as much here so might not have Cyclofiend Jim's approval to post).
>
> Josiah Anderson
> Missoula, MT 
>
> Le lun. 11 juil. 2022 à 15:52, Cyclofiend Jim  a 
> écrit :
>
>> I must ride a lot slower than all's y'all's... but I've honestly never 
>> had any trouble with my brakes on my AHH. I use the original standard 
>> Shimano Lever  that shipped with it in aught-seven (probably discontinued) 
>> on a set of Noodle bars. They don't bottom out at full pressure and the 
>> wheel will skid. 
>>
>> http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2008/cc522-cyclofiend_jim0908.html
>>
>> - Jim
>>
>> On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:41:01 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Laing: Forgive me if you've posted some before, but if not, I'd be 
>>> delighted to see photos of your Riv custom "racing bike." 53.4 X 62?? What 
>>> sort of bar? Me, I fit almost the diametrical opposite: 60 X 56 c-c for a 
>>> drop-bar bike. 
>>>
>>> To all: I've found this discussion interesting, both regarding braking 
>>> effectiveness and road bike aesthetics. I have to say that I myself would 
>>> prefer cantis or V brakes, or braze-on centerpulls instead of what appear 
>>> to me clunky very-long reach calipers on a "gofast" road bike if medium 
>>> reach calipers didn't work; and in fact, I've seen a number of custom or 
>>> high-end production road bikes from before WWII built for cantilever 
>>> brakes. I think a great many of these were on the Classics Rendezvous and 
>>> Classic Lightweights UK websites.
>>>
>>> IME, I tend to agree with those who say that almost all brakes work 
>>> decently, if not brilliantly, if properly set up, and if the levers are 
>>> appropriate to the brakes proper. I know that my otherwise wonderful 
>>> second-gen (? The tab-operated cam) Dura Ace single pivots worked badly, 
>>> even with salmons, pulled by 7410-era levers, while the single pivot (high 
>>> end DC? Superbe Pro?) 57 mm reach single pivot on the gofast pulled by the 
>>> same levers works very well indeed, for power and for modulation.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 10:34 AM lconley  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Appearance was a large consideration when I selected the Rene 
>>>> Herse braze-on centerpull brakes for my Rivendell Custom that was intended 
>>>> as a road bike. I call it a fat man's racing bike. "Racing Bike" as in no 
>>>> braze-ons for racks, no fender eyelets, no holes in the "brake" or chain 
>>>> stay bridges, - clean stays and forks but a really long wheelbase. The 
>>>> long 
>>>> chainstays are balanced by the really long main triangle (62 cm ETT x 53.4 
>>>> ST). What I did not realize was how large the Rene Herse brakes are, they 
>>>> dwarf my Mafac Competition , DiaCompe, and Weinmann centerpulls. But they 
>>>> still have that fifties - sixties racing 

Re: [RBW] Re: Long reach brake options for AHH

[Cyclofiend Jim]

I must ride a lot slower than all's y'all's... but I've honestly never had 
any trouble with my brakes on my AHH. I use the original standard Shimano 
Lever  that shipped with it in aught-seven (probably discontinued) on a set 
of Noodle bars. They don't bottom out at full pressure and the wheel will 
skid. 

http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2008/cc522-cyclofiend_jim0908.html

- Jim

On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 3:41:01 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Laing: Forgive me if you've posted some before, but if not, I'd be 
> delighted to see photos of your Riv custom "racing bike." 53.4 X 62?? What 
> sort of bar? Me, I fit almost the diametrical opposite: 60 X 56 c-c for a 
> drop-bar bike. 
>
> To all: I've found this discussion interesting, both regarding braking 
> effectiveness and road bike aesthetics. I have to say that I myself would 
> prefer cantis or V brakes, or braze-on centerpulls instead of what appear 
> to me clunky very-long reach calipers on a "gofast" road bike if medium 
> reach calipers didn't work; and in fact, I've seen a number of custom or 
> high-end production road bikes from before WWII built for cantilever 
> brakes. I think a great many of these were on the Classics Rendezvous and 
> Classic Lightweights UK websites.
>
> IME, I tend to agree with those who say that almost all brakes work 
> decently, if not brilliantly, if properly set up, and if the levers are 
> appropriate to the brakes proper. I know that my otherwise wonderful 
> second-gen (? The tab-operated cam) Dura Ace single pivots worked badly, 
> even with salmons, pulled by 7410-era levers, while the single pivot (high 
> end DC? Superbe Pro?) 57 mm reach single pivot on the gofast pulled by the 
> same levers works very well indeed, for power and for modulation.
>
> On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 10:34 AM lconley  wrote:
>
>> Appearance was a large consideration when I selected the Rene 
>> Herse braze-on centerpull brakes for my Rivendell Custom that was intended 
>> as a road bike. I call it a fat man's racing bike. "Racing Bike" as in no 
>> braze-ons for racks, no fender eyelets, no holes in the "brake" or chain 
>> stay bridges, - clean stays and forks but a really long wheelbase. The long 
>> chainstays are balanced by the really long main triangle (62 cm ETT x 53.4 
>> ST). What I did not realize was how large the Rene Herse brakes are, they 
>> dwarf my Mafac Competition , DiaCompe, and Weinmann centerpulls. But they 
>> still have that fifties - sixties racing bike look. The centerpull 
>> braze-ons are located between the rim and the fork crown/brake bridge, so 
>> they are a stiffer mount that cantilevers/V-brakes whose braze-ons are 
>> located below the rim. Another plus for the RH centerpulls is no black or 
>> plastic parts like the long reach Tektros.
>>
>> I have never actually seen another bike with braze-on centerpulls except 
>> in pictures - some in the book *Japanese Steel*. I have considered at 
>> times having Dia-Compe braze-ons installed on my Paramount for the original 
>> Weinmann centerpull brakes.
>>
>> Laing
>>
>> On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 7:50:05 AM UTC-4 Daniel MacPherson wrote:
>>
>>> I agree with the sentiment that road bikes look better with calipers on 
>>> them. Though I find the long-reach caliper brakes (Tektro R559) to be 
>>> rather ugly looking. Road bikes with disc brakes or v-brakes still look odd 
>>> to me. I assume they must be gravel or cyclocross bikes. Maybe Rivendell 
>>> should develop some kick-ass long reach caliper brakes. 
>>>
>>>
>>> Daniel M 
>>>
>>> Tallahassee Fl
>>>
>>> On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 10:31:46 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 Part of the Riv association with long-reach calipers (my opinion) is 
 Grant had them made back in the days when road bikes were closely 
 associated with calipers and he wanted more room for big tires. We don't 
 think anything of it now but at the time if your bike had canti posts it 
 was a tourer or mtb, you couldn't sell it to folks looking for a road 
 frame. 



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Re: [RBW] Re: Let's talk about the All Rounder

[Cyclofiend Jim]

In terms of lineage, the A/R was the refinement of the XO from the 
Bridgestone era, and begat the Atlantis. 
http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/gen1/rivcat05_allrounder.jpg

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis/index.html

- J


On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 1:03:32 PM UTC-7 Ryan wrote:

> What Addison said!
>
> In my mind, it's like the little black Chanel cocktail dress...a classic 
> that never really goes out of style. Think of Audrey Hepburn in *Breakfast 
> at Tiffany's.*
>
> But of course, I too appreciate Riv's current offerings. Of course I'm 
> keeping my 1997 Waterford-built AR. If I was going to buy another 
> bike...not likely, but if...a Clem step-thru would be the ticket. I don't 
> love the Boscos, and I would probably do as others have done and shed some 
> rolling weight with 36-hole Deore LX/XT hubs, Velocity rims w db spokes and 
> RH tires with the Endurance casing. And maybe a wider Brooks sprung saddle 
> for the more upright position. Black or some other really understated color.
>
> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 1:06:20 PM UTC-5 Addison wrote:
>
>> I've raved for years about my Allrounder.  It does pretty much everything 
>> well or exceptionally well.  At least that I ask it to do.  The current 
>> iteration is attached.
>>
>> And here is an old link/write up I did on it.
>>
>>
>> https://www.addisonwilhite.com/rambler/rivendell-allrounder-jack-of-all-tradesmast-of-most
>>
>> I test rode a Hunq a few years ago and felt like my AR was the same 
>> bike.  I know the new Riv offerings are different animals but they don't 
>> speak to me the way  the AR does.  Still love and admire Riv the company of 
>> course.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Addison Wilhite, M.A. 
>>
>> Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology 
>>  
>>
>> *“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”*
>>
>> Portfolio and Blog 
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 10:42 AM Sean Steinle  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the replies so far, wonderful stuff, this is exactly the sort 
>>> of discussion I was hoping for. Unsurprisingly, the consensus so far seems 
>>> to be what I thought from the start, a great bike, but less 'refined' than 
>>> current Rivs, in the sense that Grant is always tweaking and making things 
>>> closer to his current definitely of ideal. 
>>>
>>> Bill, great points, and thanks for the reply, what I actually meant by 
>>> point 2 was not whether Grant still feels like the All Rounder is better 
>>> than the b-stones, but whether he feels like his current bikes are much 
>>> superior to the All Rounder, in the same as he felt about the All Rounder 
>>> compared to the b-stones back when he first started Riv. I think the answer 
>>> to that is probably yes, or, like you poitned out, it'd still be an 
>>> offering from them. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 11:52:06 AM UTC-5 George Rosselle wrote:
>>>
 I did not own and All Rounder but did have an Atlantis from the first 
 batch. It was a beautiful bike and a pleasure to ride, but was a bit 
 harsher than I would have liked. Maybe it would ride better loaded but I 
 never rode it that way. I much prefer the ride of the Rosco Bubbe I have 
 now. I think the changes Grant has made in the bikes over time is an 
 improvement, as you would hope, not just changes for the sake of selling 
 more bikes. If you find an All Rounder that fits for a good price it might 
 be worth checking out, but there are so many similar bikes on the market 
 now that are probably better for the same price, or less, that I would 
 recommend keeping an open mind.

 George in Loganville, GA

 On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 12:19:38 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright 
 wrote:

> I have not personally owned an all-rounder. But in general interest of 
> bike development and history. It seemed that the design lineage came 
> loosely from elements of the randonneur bikes (roadish geometry with 650b 
> wider tires) Grant - being a thoughtful individual, adopted the design to 
> contemporary parts availability which created the XO-1, which utilized 
> slightly wider 26" tires. With Bridgestone being less interested in 
> developing niche bikes grant started Rivendell. The All-rounder was a 
> quick 
> adaptation to a more boutique style small company version with revisions 
> as 
> Grant's perspective on bikes changed. If I recall there was also the 
> mountain bike (I cant recall the name) and a road frame? EItherway - the 
> All-rounder morphed into the Atlantis (another reference to Bridgestone 
> touring bikes)  The Atlantis, again following trends in terms of 
> wheelsize 
> and clearance became (ie fitting 29er sized tires etc) which has had it's 
> own evolution in itself. 
>
> Grant see's his bikes within his interest of market. I think the early 
> Atlantis style bikes influenced a 

[RBW] Re: Waterford vs Toyo AHH

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Hey there Matt - 

I think there were few of the AHH production bikes which did _not_ have a 
kickstand plate. 
http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/hilsen/index.html

A recall seeing few photos of early (likely Waterford-built) with a round 
chainstay bridge only, but most of the ones I saw had the plate. I know 
mine does (a Toyo-built). 

I've got a few of those early AHH's photo'd during visits to the RBWHQ - 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclofiend/7495148306/in/album-72157630407224566/

they all seem to have them. 

IIRC, the serial numbers have some designators. But, if it has 
Waterford-branded dropouts, I think that's a solid indicator. They were a 
bit more rare. The colors were lighter on some of the Waterford ones as 
well. 

Jim







On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 10:21:51 AM UTC-7 Matt Beecher wrote:

> I've been looking at that neat AHH over on Ebay and it got me wondering.  
> I saw a few comments in the past about Waterford vs Toyo AHH frames.  How 
> does one tell the difference.  Is the easiest/only option to look for 
> Waterford dropouts?  
>
> Do any of the AHH frames have a kickstand plate?  
>
> Dang, I wish that were not my size.
>
> Best regards,
> Matt in Oswego, IL
>

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[RBW] Re: Groups.Google

[Cyclofiend Jim]

There is a FB group here - 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/rbwownersbunch

No buy/sell/trade. Emphasis on photos. 



On Wednesday, January 12, 2022 at 6:02:44 AM UTC-8 rickur...@gmail.com 
wrote:

>
> I am able to understand and use the group as designed, thanks all.
> My gripe is with the sheer awkwardness and HORRIBLE interface of google 
> groups. If you’ve ever used Discord or Facebook groups you’ll know what I’m 
> talking about. 
>
>
> On Tuesday, January 11, 2022 at 4:24:35 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> On Android: I look at the mobile website, then when I want to post I 
>> click the 3 dots top right and go to Desktop Site. This brings up the reply 
>> function. Not awesome but workable. 
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 11, 2022 at 5:57:42 AM UTC-8 rickur...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I love my Rivendell, and I love Rivendell owners! 
>>> But, I despise this Google group format! 
>>> I wish there was another way. I'm sure there is, I just don't know what 
>>> it is
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: First 10 days

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Good on ya, matey! If you are smiling, you are doing it right.

Enjoy the ride!

- J

On Friday, January 14, 2022 at 12:17:41 PM UTC-8 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Just 5 rides and 80 or so miles in and I am hooked. Normally there would 
> be too much snow/ice & salt on the roads in January to ride. I am having a 
> blast riding this bike, Tried it today with a partial load.

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[RBW] Re: Question about the 1995 Waterford Road standard

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Didn't realize the Mountain Bike Museum was selling frames
Road Standard dimensions are on this never-quite finished resource - 
http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/gen1/

Here's the direct link to the image
http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/gen1/rivcat05_framespecs.jpg

I will say it sort hurts to hear a '95 described as "vintage" but there 
ya go.

Good frame - won't have quite the tire clearances we're seeing on more 
recent models, of course. Horizontal dropouts, too. 

Jim
On Sunday, January 16, 2022 at 4:49:47 PM UTC-8 Adrianna T wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I saw this ad and I am very tempted: 
> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/d/fairfax-wow-beautiful-1995-rivendell/7429374409.html
>
> I'm going to see it next week to decide.
>
> 1. I am 5' 5 female, any ideas on whether this will fit me? 
>
> 2. This will be my first vintage bike, and I am so excited! Any other tips 
> or advice on this particular frame? 
>
> -Adrianna
>

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Rambouillet were all Toyo-built.  
The first run (orange) had a mis-positioned rear brake bridge as has been 
documented. 
http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/rambouillet/


On Sunday, November 28, 2021 at 4:08:20 PM UTC-8 iamkeith wrote:

> Regarding builders:  Joe Starck definitely built Road and All Rounder 
> frames.  I'm not so sure he built Rambouillets, unless perhaps a prototype 
> or two?   
>
> It occurs to me that the Roco Bebe kid-carrier bike is missing from your 
> list.
>
> On Sunday, November 28, 2021 at 1:34:30 PM UTC-7 Fullylugged wrote:
>
>> Those are pretty collectible then!
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Nov 28, 2021, at 2:24 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>> As Ryan stated there are in fact a few RS-made Rivs out there. Very few. 
>>
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>>
>> On Sunday, November 28, 2021 at 11:22:14 AM UTC-8 Fullylugged wrote:
>>
>>> Sachs designed the lugs used on the earliest models.  He didn’t make 
>>> them or any frames. Waterford was the earliest vendor and as others have 
>>> noted, a few other small builders have helped over the years, Nobilette 
>>> most recently. Toyo did several frame models for a period of about 5 years, 
>>> and Panasonic had one too. Panasonic and Urema did painting in Japan. 
>>>  Maxway in Taiwan has been a major supplier of late.  
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Nov 28, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Eric Daume  wrote:
>>>
>>> I’ve never heard that they used Sachs as a builder. Hasn’t he always 
>>> had a long waiting list?
>>>
>>>
>>> I think they’ve used a Sachs fork crown or lugs, or maybe he used 
>>> theirs. 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, November 28, 2021, Ryan  wrote:
>>>
 Customs...I feel Riv started mixing tubesets(Reynolds/Vitus/Columbus)  
 and tweaking geometry around 1998 when they were moving away from 
 Waterford 
 and working with Match. I think customs started with Joe Starck in 1999 
 and 
 they added Curt Goodrich around 2000 or thereabouts. My 2000 Road 
 delivered 
 2001 was a Goodrich frame. With high demand they used other builders , one 
 of them being Richard Sachs. Mark Nobilette has been their sole custom  
 builder for a long time...but not sure when JS and CG stopped and 
 Nobilette 
 started. 2005 or so?

 On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:13:56 PM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:

> These are great tweaks, I am updating my draft paper copy as we go and 
> all this will be included in the digital version - thanks Joe, Bruce, 
> Keith, and Joel!  I'll be sure to credit the RBWOB in the footnotes of 
> this 
> thing. 
>
> I'll try to think of a way to graphically represent semi-custom, 
> prototype, and production from each other. For the builder I am thinking 
> color-coding. It'll kind of show the Waterford era, into the Toyo era, 
> back 
> to Waterford a bit more before mostly going MIT. With other builders 
> sprinkled in of course. Should be a neat effect.  It's worthwhile adding 
> the start of the official custom program, I expect, as well.  
>
> I think small at-time-of-order tweaks such as braze-ons and paint 
> choice will be outside the scope of this infographic - certainly part of 
> the beauty of Rivs is that they cannot be fully described by such means 
> :D 
>
> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 12:55:02 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Disclaimer added: I'm speaking of strictly production models. The 
>> line between "production" and "custom" was always a little fuzzy in the 
>> early Waterford days; and even now my "custom Rivendell" hews tightly to 
>> Grant's ideas of what a frame should be. For my purposes in the 
>> discussion 
>> a custom is any Riv frame where you were able to change a spec at 
>> purchase 
>> time.  
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>>
>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:58:09 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Nice work, Jason!
>>>
>>> I believe the only difference between Road and Road Standard is the 
>>> LongLow became available, which prompted the original Road model 
>>> getting a 
>>> name added to express it as one of two road frames. 
>>>
>>> As I recall the Mystery Bike was offered and sold to 10 people, I've 
>>> only ever seen two of them. 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:33:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 My understanding of the Mystery bike so far (all lifted from Tom 
 Allingham's Flickr):  Produced in 2012 (?) as an Appaloosa 
 exploration, 
 with the swoopy mid-stays and fabricated by Nobilette. Any idea how 
 many 
 were produced, and whether I got my production year right?  And am I 
 missing gen 1 Appaloosas, ie did they happen between '12 and '16 when 
 the 
 MIT batch rolled in?  

 On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 11:14:05 

Re: [RBW] Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Cyclofiend Jim]

First mention of the Bomba was RR #39, Spring 2007
http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/bombadil/index.html

On Sunday, November 28, 2021 at 11:10:16 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Aaah so much good insight here, and it's fun to see that others have done 
> exactly what I'm doing after all!  Marty, thanks for posting that up, I had 
> completely missed Project Buffalo, and somehow never noticed it when 
> scanning the readers despite it's full-page coverage.  I think I skimmed 
> right past it because it does not look like a typical Riv!  I'd also missed 
> your head badge poster before (I clearly need to visit more often) and I 
> WANT ONE!
>
> Can folks scrutinize the accuracy of this builder list?  I know a lot of 
> these batches have probably had additional builders doing the odd one to 
> fill in for production gaps etc.  I don't know where to draw the line, but 
> good to have more info than less! 
>
> [image: Rivlist_Nov28.JPG]  
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, 28 November 2021 at 10:42:09 UTC-8 Ryan wrote:
>
>> Steven, you are right about "unofficial customs" like the snapshot of an 
>> early catalogue posted by Joe Bernard mentions where it notes a 300.00 
>> upcharge. And Nathan is right that during a peak demand period they used 
>> some US top builders for customs and RS was one of them. I think one was 
>> for sale on this group a few years ago
>>
>> On Sunday, November 28, 2021 at 11:32:39 AM UTC-6 Nathan F wrote:
>>
>>> Eric,
>>>
>>> Sach's decade long waiting list is a recent invention from frame 
>>> building's explosion in popularity around the late 00s / early 10s. It 
>>> wasn't always that difficult to have him build you a bike.
>>>
>>> In the 90s I believe he designed some lugs for Rivendell, and then later 
>>> made 3 frames or so for them when they were shopping around for builders? 
>>> Not so sure on the numbers for that second part, but I know they didn't use 
>>> him much. 
>>>
>>> Nathan
>>>
>>> On Sunday, 28 November 2021 at 08:07:58 UTC-8 Eric Daume wrote:
>>>
 I’ve never heard that they used Sachs as a builder. Hasn’t he always 
 had a long waiting list?

 I think they’ve used a Sachs fork crown or lugs, or maybe he used 
 theirs. 


 On Sunday, November 28, 2021, Ryan  wrote:

> Customs...I feel Riv started mixing tubesets(Reynolds/Vitus/Columbus)  
> and tweaking geometry around 1998 when they were moving away from 
> Waterford 
> and working with Match. I think customs started with Joe Starck in 1999 
> and 
> they added Curt Goodrich around 2000 or thereabouts. My 2000 Road 
> delivered 
> 2001 was a Goodrich frame. With high demand they used other builders , 
> one 
> of them being Richard Sachs. Mark Nobilette has been their sole custom  
> builder for a long time...but not sure when JS and CG stopped and 
> Nobilette 
> started. 2005 or so?
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:13:56 PM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> These are great tweaks, I am updating my draft paper copy as we go 
>> and all this will be included in the digital version - thanks Joe, 
>> Bruce, 
>> Keith, and Joel!  I'll be sure to credit the RBWOB in the footnotes of 
>> this 
>> thing. 
>>
>> I'll try to think of a way to graphically represent semi-custom, 
>> prototype, and production from each other. For the builder I am thinking 
>> color-coding. It'll kind of show the Waterford era, into the Toyo era, 
>> back 
>> to Waterford a bit more before mostly going MIT. With other builders 
>> sprinkled in of course. Should be a neat effect.  It's worthwhile adding 
>> the start of the official custom program, I expect, as well.  
>>
>> I think small at-time-of-order tweaks such as braze-ons and paint 
>> choice will be outside the scope of this infographic - certainly part of 
>> the beauty of Rivs is that they cannot be fully described by such means 
>> :D 
>>
>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 12:55:02 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Disclaimer added: I'm speaking of strictly production models. The 
>>> line between "production" and "custom" was always a little fuzzy in the 
>>> early Waterford days; and even now my "custom Rivendell" hews tightly 
>>> to 
>>> Grant's ideas of what a frame should be. For my purposes in the 
>>> discussion 
>>> a custom is any Riv frame where you were able to change a spec at 
>>> purchase 
>>> time.  
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:58:09 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Nice work, Jason!

 I believe the only difference between Road and Road Standard is the 
 LongLow became available, which prompted the original Road model 
 getting a 
 name added to express it as one of two road frames. 

 As I recall the Mystery Bike was offered 

Re: [RBW] Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Buffalo was the original name of the Bombadil.  

- J

On Sunday, November 28, 2021 at 11:10:16 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Aaah so much good insight here, and it's fun to see that others have done 
> exactly what I'm doing after all!  Marty, thanks for posting that up, I had 
> completely missed Project Buffalo, and somehow never noticed it when 
> scanning the readers despite it's full-page coverage.  I think I skimmed 
> right past it because it does not look like a typical Riv!  I'd also missed 
> your head badge poster before (I clearly need to visit more often) and I 
> WANT ONE!
>
> Can folks scrutinize the accuracy of this builder list?  I know a lot of 
> these batches have probably had additional builders doing the odd one to 
> fill in for production gaps etc.  I don't know where to draw the line, but 
> good to have more info than less! 
>
> [image: Rivlist_Nov28.JPG]  
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, 28 November 2021 at 10:42:09 UTC-8 Ryan wrote:
>
>> Steven, you are right about "unofficial customs" like the snapshot of an 
>> early catalogue posted by Joe Bernard mentions where it notes a 300.00 
>> upcharge. And Nathan is right that during a peak demand period they used 
>> some US top builders for customs and RS was one of them. I think one was 
>> for sale on this group a few years ago
>>
>> On Sunday, November 28, 2021 at 11:32:39 AM UTC-6 Nathan F wrote:
>>
>>> Eric,
>>>
>>> Sach's decade long waiting list is a recent invention from frame 
>>> building's explosion in popularity around the late 00s / early 10s. It 
>>> wasn't always that difficult to have him build you a bike.
>>>
>>> In the 90s I believe he designed some lugs for Rivendell, and then later 
>>> made 3 frames or so for them when they were shopping around for builders? 
>>> Not so sure on the numbers for that second part, but I know they didn't use 
>>> him much. 
>>>
>>> Nathan
>>>
>>> On Sunday, 28 November 2021 at 08:07:58 UTC-8 Eric Daume wrote:
>>>
 I’ve never heard that they used Sachs as a builder. Hasn’t he always 
 had a long waiting list?

 I think they’ve used a Sachs fork crown or lugs, or maybe he used 
 theirs. 


 On Sunday, November 28, 2021, Ryan  wrote:

> Customs...I feel Riv started mixing tubesets(Reynolds/Vitus/Columbus)  
> and tweaking geometry around 1998 when they were moving away from 
> Waterford 
> and working with Match. I think customs started with Joe Starck in 1999 
> and 
> they added Curt Goodrich around 2000 or thereabouts. My 2000 Road 
> delivered 
> 2001 was a Goodrich frame. With high demand they used other builders , 
> one 
> of them being Richard Sachs. Mark Nobilette has been their sole custom  
> builder for a long time...but not sure when JS and CG stopped and 
> Nobilette 
> started. 2005 or so?
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:13:56 PM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> These are great tweaks, I am updating my draft paper copy as we go 
>> and all this will be included in the digital version - thanks Joe, 
>> Bruce, 
>> Keith, and Joel!  I'll be sure to credit the RBWOB in the footnotes of 
>> this 
>> thing. 
>>
>> I'll try to think of a way to graphically represent semi-custom, 
>> prototype, and production from each other. For the builder I am thinking 
>> color-coding. It'll kind of show the Waterford era, into the Toyo era, 
>> back 
>> to Waterford a bit more before mostly going MIT. With other builders 
>> sprinkled in of course. Should be a neat effect.  It's worthwhile adding 
>> the start of the official custom program, I expect, as well.  
>>
>> I think small at-time-of-order tweaks such as braze-ons and paint 
>> choice will be outside the scope of this infographic - certainly part of 
>> the beauty of Rivs is that they cannot be fully described by such means 
>> :D 
>>
>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 12:55:02 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Disclaimer added: I'm speaking of strictly production models. The 
>>> line between "production" and "custom" was always a little fuzzy in the 
>>> early Waterford days; and even now my "custom Rivendell" hews tightly 
>>> to 
>>> Grant's ideas of what a frame should be. For my purposes in the 
>>> discussion 
>>> a custom is any Riv frame where you were able to change a spec at 
>>> purchase 
>>> time.  
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:58:09 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Nice work, Jason!

 I believe the only difference between Road and Road Standard is the 
 LongLow became available, which prompted the original Road model 
 getting a 
 name added to express it as one of two road frames. 

 As I recall the Mystery Bike was offered and sold to 10 people, 
 I've only ever 

[RBW] Re: More SPAM

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Yeah... this is a google routing thing. 
Seth Godin has ranted about this more than a few times - but basically, the 
algorithm decides that stuff we've been getting regularly (and in most 
cases opted-in to receive) gets shuttled there. 

Just one of those tasks to be aware of. Usually telling google it isn't 
spam will work, but also adding the specific email - 
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com - as a specific CONTACT in your google 
address book/contacts will help. 

J
On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 12:58:03 PM UTC-7 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> I've had the same issue with gmail putting RBW Owners Bunch in my spam 
> folder. Now I'm aware. Hott here.
>
> Hugh n LA 
>
> On Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 10:04:52 AM UTC-7 ericf3 wrote:
>
>> I am not affected AFAIK as I can easily spot them -- but just checking in 
>> on e-mail I see TEN items in the SPAM folder, all from RBW group.
>>
>> Just letting others know
>>
>> EricF
>> No riding for me today in THIS monsoon
>> Vancouver
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Switching hosts for this forum?

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Thanks for asking, Eric - at this point, it's a "known Known" and is 
unlikely to be changed, barring Google dropping the entire Groups format.

Despite drawbacks and quirks, it provides decent bandwidth with a minimum 
of management and zero out of pocket cost. I've hosted, managed and run 
Listservs, BBS's and their related offspring over the years and none of 
them are without hassle. 

The attachment size for photos into Google Groups has been 25 MB for some 
time now. Yeah... but the other option is to set up a nice photo album and 
share that link. 

I have posted before that if things are not working correctly, the one 
helpful "to-do" is to access the Settings panel and use the "Send feedback 
to Google" button. Some things have actually been addressed over the years. 

There is a "For Sale" tag (Or "Label" in Googroup parlance). Periodically I 
remind folks, but honestly, almost every list member seems to label things 
clearly enough in the subject that it's hard to be confused.
There are actually three labels - "RBW-Emphemera" - "RBW-History" and 
"transations-sell-buy-trade"
I"ve been relatively slow to implement them, as I did not want to impose 
too much structure on this group. 

I would also say that basic searchability is pretty strong - that's been 
refined a great deal over the last couple years. As with Gmail, it uses 
tools which are pretty refined. 

As one more vector, there is a Rivendell Owners Bunch On Facebook group 
which I set up a while ago, where For Sale/Trade is not allowed, and photos 
are more the coin of the realm. 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/rbwownersbunch

There's another one which I'm not an admin of called "Rivendellicious" 
which also includes Bridgestone topics and allows transactions. 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/19202914712

again, I appreciate your input - thanks!

- Jim / group admin




On Sunday, October 3, 2021 at 7:09:29 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi all -- I'm relatively new in these parts but I do love and appreciate 
> the community, information, gear swaps and laughs of the RBW Owners Bunch. 
>
> But, man, Google Groups is awful. I'm a member of a few other forums that 
> use phpBB  which is, to my mind, real nice and 
> easy to use. 
>
> Problems I see here: 
>
>- Generally difficult to keep up with rolling posts, format doesn't 
>lend to quick scanning and visual organization
>- Threads don't have pages! Infinite scroll
>- DMs get lost
>- Sharing images is a total pain
>- We don't have discussion folders for broad categories. Spitballing 
>here but we could have: General discussion, For Sale, Repairs and 
>maintenance, etc. 
>- A For Sale folder with a tagged/pinned mega thread with frames for 
>sale would be cool, supplemented by our rolling gear posts. 
>
> I believe phpbb would add some much needed functionality, editing 
> capability, sharing capability and browsing capability! I have not done *any 
> *research into the cost or what it would take to set up a new forum but 
> I'd wager that a few of us would gladly chip in to cover the costs. 
>
> Food for thought. Perhaps this has been discussed previously. But I think 
> there are better ways for us to get together. 
>
> Did I mention Google groups is awful?
>
> Okay, peace and love!
> Eric
>

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[RBW] Re: Landmark LBS Closed

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Long, slow exhale.

Holding an eagle to the east in memory of an amazing person who left us too 
soon.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/eagle.html

There was a phrase, before this list, before Rivendell was more widely 
known:
AASHTA

"As Always, Sheldon Has The Answer"

Back in the days of Usenet, when dealing with a technical cycling problem - 
heck, even building a wheel from scratch - was a 
17th-level-mason-guild-craft-mysto riddle you had to solve through elusive 
scraps of information (and certainly no online videos), there was one 
person who consistently wrote copious, logical, detailed answers to 
technical bicycle questions: Sheldon Brown. 

He set the standard in assistance, all from the back room of this shop I'd 
never visited in Newtown Mass. Back in the days of dial-up. 
Rec:Bicycles:Tech (and a dozen other sub-topics in Bicycles) was an oasis 
and generations of riders owe him a serious debt. By his own admission, the 
Harris Cyclery folks let him tinker around and play on this crazy 
experiment of internet "discussion groups" long before it was widespread. 
But we are richer for those decisions. It has a lot to do with how riders 
became aware of stuff other than "what the pros ride!", learned the history 
of the sport and bicycles in general, and it coalesced the perspective of 
many of us who realized the sublime perfection of the bicycle in its most 
basic form. It is part of the foundation of this list, to be sure.

There were so many articles, you cannot scratch the surface - it was the 
original archive.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroraleighs/history.html
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tandems.html

He is the one who finally nudged me into trying a fixed-gear 
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/fixedgear.html
"Coasting is a pernicious habit"

His technical knowledge ran deep. No, deeper than that. His humor to his 
last days filled the world. One of my favorite chuckles was when he 
photographed Grant at the Bridgestone booth at the 2005 Interbike.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/lasvegas/2005/

I feel very, very lucky that I am out of retail these days. Running a high 
service, knowledge-based store is a very difficult challenge when you can 
get stuff delivered in 4 hours from a warehouse across your state. Layer on 
that the constraints of doing business the last couple years and you have a 
very tough equation to solve. It's why remembering and supporting those 
quality organizations who hang in there is so important. 

I'll admit this hit me unaware. But, it has hit me. Didn't realize they had 
shuttered. 
I guess I'll go pour one out, as the kids say. Thank you Sheldon. Thank you 
Harris. You have blazed a trail and kept it clear. Now it's our turn to 
continue.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/06/24/metro/we-had-people-with-tears-their-eyes-west-newton-bicycle-shop-closes-after-70-years/



On Thursday, September 30, 2021 at 6:44:46 AM UTC-7 George Schick wrote:

> I just happened to check into Harris Cyclery the other day to see if they 
> had a certain component in stock only to find this announcement:
> https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/
> Apparently they closed back in June but I had not checked the website for 
> a while and just discovered it.
>
> I've purchased many bike parts as well as one complete bike from those 
> people over the years and they were always very friendly and knowledgable. 
>  Further, that shop was central to the famous Sheldon Brown.  Fortunately, 
> it looks like the website and links to all of Sheldon's articles and advice 
> is still up and running.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: HUGE Rivendell archive update: Catalogs, flyers, brochures and more

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Unfortunately, GoogleGroups has dropped the ability to "Pin" posts in 
group.s 

Guess they figure the search algorithm can find anything 

ahh well...

- J / admin

On Thursday, September 2, 2021 at 2:20:08 PM UTC-7 divis...@gmail.com wrote:

> Might be a good idea for a moderator to sticky this post, for future 
> reference.
>
> Peter "knowing the info is out there doesn't help, if you can't find it" 
> Adler
> Berkeley, CA/USA
>
> On Thursday, September 2, 2021 at 10:08:47 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I've spent the last several months scanning my collection of Rivendell 
>> catalogs, flyers, ads and brochures. 
>>
>> Reed, who hosts the archive of Rivendell Readers at 
>> http://notfine.com/rivreader/, kindly added all of my scans to the site. 
>> Now there is quite a trove of Rivendell ephemera. 
>>
>> He created a new link (the old one still works!): 
>> http://notfine.com/rivendell/
>>
>> Enjoy reading! All of the files are text searchable. If you have anything 
>> that we haven't included please send me a DM. 
>>
>>
>>- All 20 Rivendell catalogs
>>   -  Catalogs from 1996-2018
>>- Frame brochures
>>   - 1995 frames mailer
>>   - Atlantis and Atlantis 2
>>   - Rambouillet
>>   - Romulus
>>   - Rivendell Frame Brochure
>>   - An early frame paint chart
>>   - *I'm missing the Cheviot brochure*
>>- Flyers
>>   - Nine flyers from 2002–2009
>>   - *I'm missing Hiawatha Holidays No. 1 *
>>- Ads
>>   - An add for the reader from Vintage Bicycle Quarterly
>>   - A 2014 Cheviot ad
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS - Rivendell Rambouillet

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Two quick points - 

Please let's keep this post on topic. It is a for sale post for a specific 
bike, not a general Rambouillet thread (which I'd love to see discussed - I 
removed several posts here which deserved a separate thread topic.)

If you are interested, please contact the seller directly.

- Jim

On Friday, July 9, 2021 at 1:33:46 PM UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:

> Sure looks like a 56 or, maybe 58, to me.  Remember that the Rams were 
> proportioned to encourage people to size "up" from what they typically 
> believed they needed.  Even more so than other Rivs of the era, they had 
> proprtionally shorter top tubes and lower bottom brackets.
>
> On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 4:11:30 PM UTC-6 rcn...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> If this is a 56 I think I have to put my hat in.  Currently 
>> Rivendell-less and this would replace my '76 Witcomb USA which is nice but 
>> a bit quick handling for my taste these days.
>>
>> Ryan
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 7, 2021 at 12:09:56 PM UTC-7 David Hallerman wrote:
>>
>>> Reading posts kvelling over the Rambouillet delights me for a special 
>>> new reason - I’m the very lucky guy who bought the NOS 56cm Ram frameset 
>>> that Gerard Gunhouse sold here less than a fortnight ago.
>>>
>>>
>>> As someone who owned an original Waterford-built Riv Road Standard, 
>>> bought during the company’s first year, and regrets selling it a few years 
>>> ago, this new and perhaps better chance (fatter tires are better) at Riv 
>>> All-Roadism - in perfect emerald green no less! - is a source of unexpected 
>>> joy.
>>>
>>>
>>> I’ll post some photos as the build goes along. And thanks again Gunner, 
>>> you’ve been a great gentleman across the whole process of my buying your 
>>> absurdly well-packed and well-preserved backup Rambouillet. Did I mention 
>>> the bike is GREEN?
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave, who is intent on beaucoup beausage for his new Ram to counter a 
>>> core reason he sold his original Riv Road which had to do with some kind of 
>>> preservation but hey you know life is short
>>>
>>> + + + + + + + +
>>>
>>> Hudson Valley NY
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 11:13 AM Cyclofiend Jim  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A quick scan back through the last year or so brings up some listings 
>>>> for built Rams in the $1500 range. 
>>>> Green frame would likely have been ~2007-2009 - that was the last color 
>>>> option. 
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, July 7, 2021 at 8:08:50 AM UTC-7 Cyclofiend Jim wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It's weird to think of folks not knowing the Rambouillet... but, that 
>>>>> was a few years ago now.
>>>>> Here's info on it and a scan of the booklet - 
>>>>> http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/rambouillet/index.html
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 5:23:43 PM UTC-7 rtan...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Want to sell this bike.  Top tube - 20", seat tube - 22", wheelbase - 
>>>>>> 40"
>>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/219b9159-906c-4107-beb9-88aaa56d7318n%40googlegroups.com
>>>>  
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/219b9159-906c-4107-beb9-88aaa56d7318n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: FS - Rivendell Rambouillet

[Cyclofiend Jim]

A quick scan back through the last year or so brings up some listings for 
built Rams in the $1500 range. 
Green frame would likely have been ~2007-2009 - that was the last color 
option. 

On Wednesday, July 7, 2021 at 8:08:50 AM UTC-7 Cyclofiend Jim wrote:

> It's weird to think of folks not knowing the Rambouillet... but, that was 
> a few years ago now.
> Here's info on it and a scan of the booklet - 
> http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/rambouillet/index.html
>
> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 5:23:43 PM UTC-7 rtan...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>
>> Want to sell this bike.  Top tube - 20", seat tube - 22", wheelbase - 40"
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS - Rivendell Rambouillet

[Cyclofiend Jim]

It's weird to think of folks not knowing the Rambouillet... but, that was a 
few years ago now.
Here's info on it and a scan of the booklet - 
http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/rambouillet/index.html

On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 5:23:43 PM UTC-7 rtan...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> Want to sell this bike.  Top tube - 20", seat tube - 22", wheelbase - 40"
>

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[RBW] Re: FS - Rivendell Rambouillet

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Note - this individual is selling the bicycle which belonged to her late 
husband.
She felt that this bicycle could find a proper home to a member of this 
group. 
I have contacted her to encourage her to post this with a proper price 
listing and other specifics, so there may be updates to this listing. 

Jim / List admin

On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 5:23:43 PM UTC-7 rtan...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> Want to sell this bike.  Top tube - 20", seat tube - 22", wheelbase - 40"
>

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[RBW] Re: Cerdan Crankset

[Cyclofiend Jim]

This idea has been around a long time. If you go back into The Data Book, 
you'll see early drawings of spring-loaded cranksets. There was "BikeDrive" 
a few years ago, and there have been more throughout the decades. They have 
not caught on yet, which I don't think is a bad thing. It complicates an 
otherwise simple and direct power mechanism which works fine. 

- J



On Thursday, July 1, 2021 at 11:06:07 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:

>
> https://www.designboom.com/technology/cerdan-crankset-increases-pedaling-power-06-30-2021/
> See above link:
>
> I find this design fascinating so thought I'd share it with the Group. 
> This isn't electronic shifting or carbon but good ole mechanical and metal. 
> Could this innovation become accepted in the mainstream cycling world?
> Doug
>

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Re: [RBW] Interesting Riv

[Cyclofiend Jim]

The "Protovelo" stickers were later - maybe '05 or so...  they were created 
to sell frames which were laying about in the warehouse. I've never seen 
those applied to bikes which weren't pretty close to production models - 
might have used a different dropout without fender/rack mounts or had 
braze-ons for cable routing in a weird place. Most I've seen had received 
quality powder coating or paint.

It does seem to have a "star" under the bottle boss, but Riv were't the 
only ones doing those types of details. 

On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 6:13:24 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:

>
> I always thought Rivendell marked their prototypes as Protovelo
> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 7:14:13 AM UTC-4 Steven Sweedler wrote:
>
>> I had a similar Road Custom that was designed around 700 x 28s w/cantis. 
>> This was before longer reach dual pivots were introduced. Steve
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 2:49 AM dub...@hotmail.com  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Team,
>>>
>>> Purchased this one on ebay and the story is that its a Prototype 
>>> Rivendell 
>>>
>>> Anyone have any ideas on it's back ground?
>>>
>>> SN M1
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Adrian the Aussie
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d48692b0-1f84-4fa9-9722-2402d56629cen%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> -- 
>> Steven Sweedler
>> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Interesting Riv

[Cyclofiend Jim]

It's possible, but just doesn't look quite right. 
Clearance at the fork seems pretty narrow.
Hard to tell with the angle on the side view, but the fork bend looks a 
little high and chunky.
I think you'd want to have some clear documentation before making that 
claim. 
Are there any marks on the BB? 

The closest to that era would be  LongLow - 
http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/gen1/rivcat05_longlow.jpg

http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2010/cc822-dongenovese1110.html

On Wednesday, June 23, 2021 at 11:49:48 PM UTC-7 dub_...@hotmail.com wrote:

> Hi Team,
>
> Purchased this one on ebay and the story is that its a Prototype Rivendell 
>
> Anyone have any ideas on it's back ground?
>
> SN M1
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Adrian the Aussie
>

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[RBW] Re: H/Hilsen (Toyo) tire size

[Cyclofiend Jim]

A... just before I posted this, I realized you have a 650B (which is 
essentially a Saluki in 56). My comments below the line were for a 700C 
Hilsen. I think you'll find any reference to Saluki clearances would be 
appropriate.

There is a thread here which chats a bit about Saluki v. Hilsen
https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/5JKIpW9dQTA

In that thread, you will find reference to a fendered Saluki with 42's. 

-- 700C comments  

I still run Jack Browns (bulky 33 1/3) on mine and there is gobs of room. 

On this page, you can see Pasela 37's and plenty of space to spare - 
http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/hilsen/index.html

Original RR article introducing the 700C Hilsen stated clearance for 40 
with fenders. (you'll find a hi-rez archived scan on that page as well).

- J

On Sunday, June 20, 2021 at 6:20:31 PM UTC-7 gpgun...@aol.com wrote:

> Greetings
> Can anyone confirm or shed light on the largest tire size one can safely 
> ride on a Toyo H/Hilsen (56 650B) with fenders. I would like to work a 
> 38-42 if possible and don't want to cut it too close for safety reasons. 
> Thanks much 
> Gunner  
>

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[RBW] Re: Beginners SLR camera?

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Ha... dusting off my "back in the day" file...
Worked in a photography shop just as the first Canon Sure-Shots came out - 
we sold everything from Leica through off-brand stuff. Even had a full 
darkroom department. (Kids, ask your parents...)

True manual = mechanical shutter.  

The Canon AE (which stood for Automatic Exposure) series was excellent, but 
used a larger battery and wouldn't work if it went dead. They were 
auto-exposure (AE1 let you set the shutter speed manually, and the lens set 
the aperture). Lenses were great, and the were solid units. The predecessor 
to that was the FT series, which were tanks. I had one for a while and held 
onto it for a long time just for that reason, they were the RBW's of the 
SLR world, as were the Nikon FM (manual) models. The old Nikkormats 
(precursor to Nikon) were sturdy beasts as well, though you have to make 
sure you have the right lenses for them. 

I used mostly Olympus OM-1's, as they had fully mechanical shutters and 
were small but tough. Good lenses. Low profile. Simple +/- metering in the 
viewfinder.

Minolta SRT (201?) series were bigger and bulkier, but worked really well.  
Circle/ring metering. 

Pentax K1000 was another in that same style. Basic. Solid. Used the 
"bayonet" Pentax lenses rather than the screw-on lenses of the Spotmatic 
(another good option if you can find the lenses).

If you can't find factory lenses, the Vivitar Series 1 lenses from that era 
were good. 

- J
On Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 11:11:29 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> My daughter has come to like film photography during her first
> attempts using a high quality borrowed manual SLR.
>
> I'd like to get her an SLR, preferably manual, preferably with a
> flash, of decent quality but not too expensive; and I have no idea
> what "expensive" means here.
>
> She would also be happy with a point and shoot, but I think that if
> affordable that a minimally decent manual with flash would be more
> satisfying.
>
> I know many of you are photographers; what would you recommend, and
> why? Manual or automatic?
>
> I might be in the market for a decent used camera for her 20th birthday.
>
> My posted photographs are really bad, I know that, and this despite
> some care. She might be able to help me learn how to take better ones.
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>

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[RBW] Re: An Evolving Shorthand... posting to "daily post ur riv"

[Cyclofiend Jim]

ahhh... interesting.. Thank you for that. 

Did a little digging and it appears that the max file size for google group 
attachments is around 8 MB (a few threads describe it as maxing at 6.8 MB). 

So that sounds like maybe a pretty high rez single image might work. 
Multiple images are probably limited to 5 or so (ha... this is sounding 
like back in the day with the old cyclofiend site...) 

- J




On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 2:39:39 PM UTC-7 Paul Clifton wrote:

> I'm pretty sure Google Groups has limited the size of files that can be 
> shared, but I'm not sure if it's file size or pixel size.
>
> I've had good luck resizing them to "2MP Best for Sharing" using the built 
> in tool on Windows. It lets me include 3 or 4 decent quality photos that 
> way, as attachments or inline.
>
> Paul
>
> On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 3:22:28 PM UTC-5 Robert Dowtin wrote:
>
>> Jim, I feel like you are speaking to me. Although, I tend to have that 
>> problem some times...
>>
>> Speaking of high quality photos, I seem to be unable to upload anything 
>> to a post that is of larger file size than something shot with a flip phone 
>> camera from 2003? Should I be putting photos in a post as an attachment? 
>> Are there 177 examples of people asking this question and giving each other 
>> confusing answers as to how best to post photos? Ok, Ok, off to use the 
>> search function before I try to show more Roswell quality photos of 
>> bicycles.
>> ~R
>>
>> On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 11:58:31 AM UTC-5 Cyclofiend Jim wrote:
>>
>>> I will say that the quickest way to gain unmoderated status is by 
>>> posting a great photo to the "daily post ur riv" thread
>>>
>>> If the first (second, or third) post you make is in a WTB/WTT/FS/FT 
>>> thread, that won't likely nudge you into the free to post gang. 
>>>
>>> I want to thank everyone who has been emphasizing the ride, the bikes 
>>> and the beauty of being on two wheels in their posts and content. And good 
>>> answers or great questions, of course. 
>>>
>>> - J / list admin
>>>
>>

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[RBW] An Evolving Shorthand... posting to "daily post ur riv"

[Cyclofiend Jim]

I will say that the quickest way to gain unmoderated status is by posting a 
great photo to the "daily post ur riv" thread

If the first (second, or third) post you make is in a WTB/WTT/FS/FT thread, 
that won't likely nudge you into the free to post gang. 

I want to thank everyone who has been emphasizing the ride, the bikes and 
the beauty of being on two wheels in their posts and content. And good 
answers or great questions, of course. 

- J / list admin

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[RBW] Re: No Group Pinning? Added "RBW-Ephemera" Tag. "Subscribe" is a thing

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Just because I wasn't too clear in the first post above:

"RBW-History" is now a LABEL you can use when discussing company/bike/bike 
model history.
"RBW-Ephemera" is a LABEL you can use to tag threads discussing Readers, GP 
Books, Catalogs, Flyers and other printed RBW material.
"transactions-sell-buy-trade" us a LABEL you can use to highlight items you 
are selling/wtb'ing/trading

- J

On Saturday, January 2, 2021 at 10:28:53 AM UTC-8 Erik Wright wrote:

> Thanks for the problem solving, Jim. I noticed the same thing yesterday 
> when I wanted to dig into some Rivendell Readers and noticed that Reed's 
> collection is no longer pinned at the top. Hopefully Google sorts this out, 
> but if not, the tag is a reasonable workaround.
>
> Erik, Philly
>
> On Saturday, January 2, 2021 at 1:04:37 PM UTC-5 Cyclofiend Jim wrote:
>
>> Hey there and best wishes for a Happy New Year.
>>
>> Was enjoying the Rivendell catalog archive thread which Eric started and 
>> tried to pin the topic so it wouldn't get buried under a swath of FS posts. 
>> Suddenly realized that the new (well..."newer" as it's been in place for a 
>> while now) Google Groups interface seems to have removed my ability to pin 
>> posts to the top of the group. I've put in a mention of it through the 
>> "Report Bugs" tool, but that's likely gone the way of all things. 
>>
>> It did encourage me to add a second LABEL to this group. In this case, 
>> "RBW-Emphemera". This is a quick tag to use to separate out all the printed 
>> material which GP and the gang have produced. If you are discussing 
>> catalogs, mailers, flyers, bicycle announcements, etc., please use the 
>> Label to make it easier to find. 
>>
>> I've Labeled the recent "Completing the Rivendell catalog archive" 
>> thread, as well as the earlier Readers archive. 
>>
>> I had scanned and accumulated a few things on the Cyclofiend.com RBW page 
>> - 
>> https://cyclofiend.com/rbw/
>>
>> I'm also adding "RBW-History" for the various model/year threads and 
>> discussions.
>>
>> When I was poking at all the menus looking for the nonexistent PIN 
>> option, I did remind myself that there is now a "SUBSCRIBE" option for 
>> threads. It defaults to ON when you start a thread, but if there is a 
>> specific thread you want to follow, you can choose to do so through a quick 
>> mouse click (or finger tap).
>>
>> Here's to great rides. 
>>
>> - Jim / admin
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] No Group Pinning? Added "RBW-Ephemera" Tag. "Subscribe" is a thing

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Hey there and best wishes for a Happy New Year.

Was enjoying the Rivendell catalog archive thread which Eric started and 
tried to pin the topic so it wouldn't get buried under a swath of FS posts. 
Suddenly realized that the new (well..."newer" as it's been in place for a 
while now) Google Groups interface seems to have removed my ability to pin 
posts to the top of the group. I've put in a mention of it through the 
"Report Bugs" tool, but that's likely gone the way of all things. 

It did encourage me to add a second LABEL to this group. In this case, 
"RBW-Emphemera". This is a quick tag to use to separate out all the printed 
material which GP and the gang have produced. If you are discussing 
catalogs, mailers, flyers, bicycle announcements, etc., please use the 
Label to make it easier to find. 

I've Labeled the recent "Completing the Rivendell catalog archive" thread, 
as well as the earlier Readers archive. 

I had scanned and accumulated a few things on the Cyclofiend.com RBW page - 
https://cyclofiend.com/rbw/

I'm also adding "RBW-History" for the various model/year threads and 
discussions.

When I was poking at all the menus looking for the nonexistent PIN option, 
I did remind myself that there is now a "SUBSCRIBE" option for threads. It 
defaults to ON when you start a thread, but if there is a specific thread 
you want to follow, you can choose to do so through a quick mouse click (or 
finger tap).

Here's to great rides. 

- Jim / admin


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[RBW] Re: Deacon Patrick

[Cyclofiend Jim]

I am leaving this first post intact in case any list members wish to 
communicate with Deacon directly. 

Please note - as stated (to paraphrase a certain bike company..."ever since 
2007"):
"*RBW Owners Bunch - Dedicated to the discussion of Rivendell Bicycles and 
products*
Ride reports encouraged, as is a respectful, supportive and polite tone in 
all posts."

Since we had several contentious conversations develop in this past year, 
I've simplified the moderation:
- Off-topic posts are removed. 
- Members who continue to advance off-topic threads and commentary are 
moderated.

- Jim / list admin

On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 8:29:40 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

>
> https://deaconpatrick.org/reaching-a-crossroads-with-an-online-bicycle-group
>
>
> Note
>  
> that I didn't in fact direct him to take a look at the sentiments expressed 
> about him, but simply said that many had expressed interest and good wishes.
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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[RBW] Re: new Google Groups question

[Cyclofiend Jim]

I will say that even in the past 2 or 3 weeks there have been a lot of 
changes (most for the better) to the new Google Groups format.
They've made a few management things easier, which I like, but have some 
other new aspects which cause issues.

At this time, I have no plans to try to migrate this group elsewhere. 

As with everything google-ish, things will be iterated to address problems. 
Commenting here is good for solutions you have found or other workarounds , 
but *please make sure you are providing feedback* *to google *if you are 
seeing issues.  On the desktop version, there is a specific tool at the 
very top of your browser tab window. Please use that - they do actually 
respond and address reported issues.

Screenshot attached.

Be well, stay safe!

- Jim / admin

On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 3:25:12 PM UTC-8 dougP wrote:

> Apparently the classic format is now history.  My question is:  Is there 
> any indicator as to which posts are updated or new?  In the classic format, 
> new & updated posts were bolded.  Hopefully it's just these old eyes 
> missing something obvious, but I don't see any way to see the difference.  
> Does anyone know or see some indicator that I'm missing?
>
> Thx,
>
> Doug peterson
>

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[RBW] Re: Can someone do a timeline on where Rivs were made and when?

[Cyclofiend Jim]

There is also a "pinned" post at the top of the group called "Rivendell 
Timeline" which is a good resource.

On Saturday, October 31, 2020 at 7:52:23 AM UTC-7, Joel S wrote:
>
> I had an first run Rambouillet and Saluki, I just assumed they were USA 
> made.  I see a lot of posts saying Toyo so I am not sure if this was for 
> the original runs or a bit later runs.  I always thought the first not made 
> in USA was the MIT Bleriot.
>
> Thanks
>
> Joel
>

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[RBW] Re: Can someone do a timeline on where Rivs were made and when?

[Cyclofiend Jim]

On Saturday, October 31, 2020 at 7:52:23 AM UTC-7, Joel S wrote:
>
> I had an first run Rambouillet and Saluki, I just assumed they were USA 
> made.  I see a lot of posts saying Toyo so I am not sure if this was for 
> the original runs or a bit later runs.  I always thought the first not made 
> in USA was the MIT Bleriot.
>
>
Rambouillet was not made in the US, AFAIK. The first "named" production 
models - Atlantis and Rambouillet (as opposed to "Rivendells") were 
Japanese (Toyo) built. 
http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/rambouillet/index.html

Bleriot was essentially a distribution deal through QBP which was a Maxway 
built (Taiwan) version of the Saluki
http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/bleriot/index.html

http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/rr37_pg14.jpg


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[RBW] Re: Can someone do a timeline on where Rivs were made and when?

[Cyclofiend Jim]

This has come up before, and those are interesting threads - so worth using 
the search feature for the group - one of the real assets of having this 
via the googling-groups... 

There was a spreadsheet posted here - 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JRuMAwuQ-Rc6bQXCBmfkmXA9jMMF5zBdBIyUOmkruYM/edit#gid=0

There was a thread from back in 2013 - quoted  below:

The _VERY_ rough page for "Generation 1" Rivendell frames is here:

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/gen1/

There are some Catalog scans (Catalog #5) of the Road Standard, Long Low 
and All Rounder

The Long Low (and Road Standard) begat the Rambouillet

The All Rounder begat the Atlantis

As for the the specifics...  wow. That's probably a bit of an 
essay. 

My opinion is that most of the Rivendell models have been tweaks and 
evolutions.  One of the driving factors was actually the availability of 
certain parts - specifically "real world" reach brakes and large volume, 
round profile tires.  When the Long Low was around, most of the road tires 
were 19, 21 and 23 cm, while the brake reach was extremely limited.  So, 
there's that.

The other thing is that I think Grant hones in on what makes each bike 
different and then intensifies the ideas - the essence of each design, if 
you will.  For example, the Rambouillet sits between the Hilsen and the 
Roadeo, but probably each is influenced by it.  When the Rambouillet came 
out, it wasn't common to ramble singletrack and mountain trails on a "road" 
bike, but with the increased clearances and larger volume tires, it was 
possible.  That design really was at the edge of what could be done with 
common brake components, and when the Silver dual pivots came out, that 
obstacle was removed. Big tires and ample clearance moved the design one 
way (Hilsen) and then the idea of running the comfy undercarriage (itself 
influenced by working with the 650B/584 tire size), but bringing back the 
light responsiveness of the Rambouillet into a more road focused design 
gave us the Roadeo.

If you read back through the early Readers, Grant wrote a lot about this - 
trying to maximize his ideas against the realities of what was available.  
Sitting here in 2013, it's hard to believe that only 10 years ago it was 
about race-driven design.  That pretty much no one had heard of larger than 
23 cm road tires, let alone 650B.  If you have the time, get the copies of 
the early Readers - it's well worth going through them.

The 2009 Series - which gave rise to the Hillborne was really a refinement 
of the Atlantis made by someone other than Toyo.  Unfortunately economics 
of Japanese crafted frames has been a challenge.  I still want to expand 
some of the RBW history on the site - but have been pretty busy getting my 
VO work up and running for the past year or so.   Here are specific "early 
model" pages:

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis 


http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/bleriot 


http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/bombadil 


http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/hilsen 


http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/quickbeam 


http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/rambouillet 


http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/romulus 



It's also interesting to see how the idea of frames begin and where they 
end up.  The First Bombadil doesn't look at all like the final iteration, 
while the Hunqapillar morphed dramatically during conception.

There's a lot of gaps in what I just wrote, of course.  The answer I always 
give is that when you are ready to get a bicycle that rides great 
everywhere, and can be adapted to your needs, it's time to check out 
Rivendell.


On Saturday, October 31, 2020 at 7:52:23 AM UTC-7, Joel S wrote:
>
> I had an first run Rambouillet and Saluki, I just assumed they were USA 
> made.  I see a lot of posts saying Toyo so I am not sure if this was for 
> the original runs or a bit later runs.  I always thought the first not made 
> in USA was the MIT Bleriot.
>
> Thanks
>
> Joel
>

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[RBW] Re: Talk Me Out of Building My Own Wheels

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Wheel building is deeply empowering. 

First one I did was a simple swap to a new rim - AASHTA. 
(TL;DR = tape the rims together so the holes match and "walk" the hub over 
one spoke set at a time. That kind of demystified the crossing and such). 

First time full-from-scratch build went pretty well - with copious reading 
of Sheldon's writings and the Jobst book. Take breaks when you feel the 
operator tension exceed the spoke tension. 

I'd say a truing stand is a must-have, as is a good quality spoke wrench. 
Dishing tool... not so much - certainly not a deal breaker as the purpose 
is to keep the rim centered, which you can easily check with a flip.

- Jim

On Monday, October 19, 2020 at 8:25:58 AM UTC-7, Steven Seelig wrote:
>
> So with COVID and all, I've decided that now is the time to do stuff that 
> I haven't ever done before.  Learning to speak French is perhaps a bridge 
> too far - not so good at language.  But it seems reasonable to think that I 
> can at least build a front wheel with a Dyno hub to put on the Sam I ride 
> in the means streets of DC and on some gravel.  
>
> I have a truing stand but not a dishing tool.  I would say I am a 
> competent wrencher.  Of course anyone who has built up a wheel did it once 
> for the first time.  Is this something I should take on?  What are the odds 
> for success?  Will I quit in frustration?
>
> Points of view encouraged.
>

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[RBW] Re: Fit Question for a newbie

[Cyclofiend Jim]

This is one of those things with Rivendell does very, very well. I'd reach 
out to them and have them talk you through it. 
A lot will have to do with your riding style, the type of locations you 
favor and the bar setup you choose. But, they've talked hundreds of people 
through that process and know their bikes very well. 

- J

On Monday, October 12, 2020 at 5:54:22 PM UTC-7 chase@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I am new to this group (though have been reading the forum for bit)... I 
> have been saving up and am finally getting ready to purchase a Riv! For 
> sure planning to get an Appaloosa or Atlantis... would love to hear any 
> ideas on fit. I am just under 5'6" with a PBH (no shoes) that is either 78 
> or 79 depending on the day. From what I can figure out a 50 Atlantis would 
> be a good fit. I've talked to some folks about the Appaloosa and it seems I 
> am between sizes on the Appaloosa. Hard since these aren't bikes we can 
> just go try out. Any feedback would be awesome! Or if anyone in the NYC 
> area with any of these bikes in these sizes and would be open to meeting up 
> (totally understand if you aren't) that would be cool! 
>
> Thanks!
>
> Chase
>

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[RBW] Re: Riv Long Low geometry

[Cyclofiend Jim]

I had a nascent page on the Cyclofiend site with a few points - 
http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/gen1/



On Monday, September 14, 2020 at 1:56:58 PM UTC-7 Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, 
CA wrote:

> There's an article on the Longlow on the Rivendell Reader #8, available 
> here <http://notfine.com/rivreader/> (hosted by Reed).
>
> Relevant parts:
>
>- 1" longer wheelbase
>- 5mm lower BB
>- Designed for "standard" reach (aka medium reach like the Shimano's 
>R451 
>
> <https://www.rivbike.com/collections/braking/products/shop-build-oem-shimano-br-r451-pair-roadeo-build-mark-br-r451-br451>,
>  
>or Velo-Orange's Grand Cru long reach 
>
> <https://velo-orange.com/collections/brakes/products/grand-cru-long-reach-brakes>
>  
>brakes)
>- Optional alternative to sidepulls are cantilever bosses
>- Will fit up to 700x38, or 700x35 with fenders, which is a handful of 
>mm larger than what can be accommodated by the standard bikes
>- Tubing dimensions appear to be generally similar to the standard 
>bikes (i.e., did not suddenly become a touring bike)
>
> Later Rivendell designs tend to provide even more tire clearances and 
> longer chainstay lengths, but (from what I've read) retained the general 
> handling characteristics (they did not switched from mid trail to low 
> trail, for example). And of course, there's the introduction of 650B wheels 
> in appropriate frame sizes, to achieve fewer geometry tradeoffs for these 
> sizes, and accommodate tires with more air. From reading Grant's 
> discourses, I believe he thinks the bikes are evolving through the years to 
> handle/ride better, and be more useful, regardless of the nostalgia.
>
> On Monday, September 14, 2020 at 9:16:49 AM UTC-7 Tom Palmer wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> I am curious about the Long Low from days gone by. My google foo has 
>> failed me.
>> Was the idea behind the Long Low a long top tube and low bottom bracket? 
>> How is that different from later Riv designs?
>> Thanks!
>> Tom Palmer
>> Twin Lake, MI USA
>>
>

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[RBW] List Function Update - Replying directly issues

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Hey there - 

Just a heads-up - I found at least one weird variable on the "not able to 
reply directly" to a seller or other group member. 

There was a variable about viewing member email addresses which I've reset, 
so that now group members have that ability. 

This was an added function, so I suspect some folks who had legacy 
memberships in this group had it turned on by default. There has been a 
cluster of newer group members who could not view/respond (and yes, a few 
older ones as well). I've reset it globally for the group, so you should be 
able to use the "Reply directly" option without issue now. 

Let me know via direct email - cyclofiend overat gee mail - if you are 
still having issues.

Thanks for your patience on this one!

- Jim



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[RBW] Re: Sellers, post your full emails

[Cyclofiend Jim]

As a follow up to my follow up:

- I've confirmed that "Reply to author" was authorized in the group 
settings.

But in doing so, did notice that "Reply to author" is open only to group 
members (set that way on purpose).

I'm wondering if those of you who have experienced issues with this may 
have been logged out of the group - in other words, viewing it from another 
email/google ID which is not recognized as the member ID.

Since a few of you have had trouble only in mobile, I'm curious if that's a 
vector. 

Can you confirm that you are actually logged into the group when this is 
not functioning?

Again - thanks.

- J


On Thursday, September 3, 2020 at 12:45:52 PM UTC-7, Cyclofiend Jim wrote:
>
> As a quick follow up - I've received several screen shots which have me 
> covered. Thanks!
>
> Have send a request/bug report/trouble ticket thingy and will hopefully 
> have some understanding of the issue.
>
> Probably some nested setting lodged under an innocuous arrow or 
> three-dot-link.
>
> Thank you again.
>
> - Jim / list admin
>

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[RBW] Re: Sellers, post your full emails

[Cyclofiend Jim]

As a quick follow up - I've received several screen shots which have me 
covered. Thanks!

Have send a request/bug report/trouble ticket thingy and will hopefully 
have some understanding of the issue.

Probably some nested setting lodged under an innocuous arrow or 
three-dot-link.

Thank you again.

- Jim / list admin

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[RBW] Re: Sellers, post your full emails

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Thanks for bringing this up, Joe - 

There is no discrete setting for me to allow this. I've flipped back and 
forth between new/old google groups and cannot replicate the condition on 
my MacOS system using Google Chrome.

Would one of you mind sending me a screen capture (a true screen capture - 
not a photo of your monitor) when the "greyed out" Reply to Sender option 
appears?

Email to cyclofiend overat gmail

Another variable would be whether or not you have permission to post to the 
group, but since people are posting on the topic without having to be 
approved by me, I'm assuming that's not an issue. 

I have heard some issues for folks on Android (which is odd, since it's 
Google's OS...but there are large number of Android flavors...)

Will poke around a bit - for those you who experience this, look for 
"report a bug with new groups" option and send to the googlers... 

- J



On Wednesday, September 2, 2020 at 6:42:30 AM UTC-7, Dave S wrote:
>
> Being that we can still see it (but not use it), I'm wondering if the 
> reply to author is a setting that the moderator has to re-activate in the 
> settings for the "new" groups.
>
> I've reverted back to old for now and can still use it on desktop.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 10:37:27 PM UTC-4, dougP wrote:
>>
>> "Reply to author" is shown in gray scale.  Maybe it'll become functional 
>> once again?
>>
>> dougP
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 6:44:30 PM UTC-7 Ryan M. wrote:
>>
>>> Good call, Joe. It's true, I can't find a way to email a user when on 
>>> the new google groups on the laptop. When using the iphone I can't even 
>>> reply to a thread...the option doesn't even exist. 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 at 8:08:57 PM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ok I'm not the moderator of this here joint but the FS posts are 
>>>> killing me. Google Groups is different and weird and stupid now and most 
>>>> of 
>>>> us can't send PMs to sellers. The trick is to put your email in the post 
>>>> without @s and dots like such: joeremi62 gmail com. Otherwise your FS post 
>>>> is going to be an endless thread of people saying they PMed you maybe not 
>>>> sure. Good luck! 
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Good wishes for those on list affected by CA wildfires

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Thank you Patrick and others. This has been a tough week. Air Quality has 
mostly been good in our neck of the woods, but drops in the evening as the 
wind shifts here north of SF and the smoke starts to lay into our area. 
We've seen >200 a few times via Purple Air, and there's not much to do but 
hang inside and keep everything closed. I've had a sore throat all week. 

A friend texted me images from his place near the LNU Complex fire. He had 
been lost everything but the stuff he had in his truck. 

I used to really like late summer and early fall, but now, it's a definite 
time of stress.

Be safe everyone.

- Jim


>
>

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[RBW] Re: friction mode on silver shifters and shimano down tube dura ace shifters slip!

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Check the cable routing, especially the ferrule fit. A minor movement 
between the cable and ferrule or the ferrule and a cable stop can sometimes 
cause this.
Double-check that there is not a "second" ferrule stuck in a stop somewhere 
(including the derailleur). 
If the bike was built up with too tight of a cable/housing run, that 
sometimes causes that.  
Too tight of an arc at the RD.
Derailleur not completely tightened/attached.
Bent derailleur hanger

Since it's happening on two different sets of shifters, the problem is 
likely in the cable run or derailleur. 
Also, you might make sure that the bike was built up with the proper type 
of housing - brake housing and derailleur housing are not the same. 

Hope that helps!

- Jim


On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 7:14:40 AM UTC-7, Sam Perez wrote:
>
> does any one know how to trouble shoot friction shifters that wont hold 
> gears under hard effort, i have riv silver shifters and 9speed dura ace 
> down tube shifters that slip on friction mode.
>
> I have done the following only to have the lever loose grip after a few 
> shifts. (lots of hills)
> -tightened the bolt (done) 
> -tightened the D ring (done)
> -adjusted the rear  deralure (done) 
>
> any thoughts?
>
>

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[RBW] Re: List Status Thoughts: So... here we are Saturday morning

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Hi John - 

Please see my response to Franklyn's post, which covers most of what you 
mention.

- Jim


On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 6:43:00 PM UTC-7, John Phillips wrote:
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> I'm in agreement with everything you wrote. Thank you.
>
> I do have a question about limiting posts, specifically your request 
> to "Please do not start non-RBW _bicycle_  threads." In the past, some of 
> RBW's Blug & Blahg posts incited some very heated exchanges (i.e. helmets, 
> zip ties, hard boiled eggs, flipping a bike upside down to change a tire), 
> and now we have Grant's Blahg about racism. So my question is: what is and 
> is not RBW-related? I'm not being facetious, because it seems RBW is kind 
> of a controversial business.
>
> I'm not going to start any discussions, but I was wondering?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John Phillips
>

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[RBW] Re: List Status Thoughts: So... here we are Saturday morning

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Thank you Deacon.

Given the tension and tone of the world right now, I'd rather not try that 
experiment for a little bit. 

I'm not necessarily saying it's off the table, but I'd prefer to table that 
at the moment. 

- Jim

On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 11:22:08 AM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Thank you, Jim, first and foremost for this group and the love you pour 
> into in, and thus us, through the years. I will strive to abide by these 
> strictures, with the caveat that I may forget to erase the bits of my 
> signature when I start a thread by email, and understand if those posts are 
> deleted. I'd like to propose one addition, but first describe what I have 
> loved in the past about this group and miss now.
>
> - We are a diverse bunch and I greatly value that. Rivendell as a company 
> attracts folks who approach many aspects of life differently from the main 
> stream, yet we are far from homogenous. I miss the off topic wanderings and 
> have learned a great deal from them.
>
> - Off topic wanderings used to be a rare example of civil discourse. I 
> miss that, and believe the world misses that. We needn't agree to share the 
> journey, and I personally benefit greatly from sharing the journey with 
> folks who civilly disagree yet value each others human dignity in their 
> discourse.
>
> Thus, in line with your questions "does this group matter?" and "is it 
> needed?," I propose a monthly or quarterly "Calm Colloquy for Summer 2020" 
> that allows for self moderated civil discourse on any and all topics with 
> the singular rule to strive to uphold all peoples' human dignity.
>
> Such a thread would act as a pressure valve, a shining, though sometimes 
> muddy, example of what civil discourse is. It would not be a thread to vent 
> anger, but instead an invitation to process reactions into mindful thought 
> and humbly ask questions and express viewpoints in ... calm colloquy. It 
> would give a place folks could point to when off topic opinions sneak into 
> other threads as a more appropriate place to express them and humbly listen 
> and learn what others think.
>
> The first post in each "Calm Colloquy" thread would contain the following:
>
> "This thread is for calm, reasoned discussion of any and all topics with 
> the single rule of each person striving to uphold the dignity of every 
> other person to have a civil discourse of divergent thought, opinion, and 
> viewpoint. It is self-moderated, meaning there is no moderator and we are 
> each moderators. Please do not vent raw thoughts or reactions here, but 
> take time to calmly express your own viewpoint while simultaneously seeking 
> to understand other's perspectives even and especially when they differ 
> from your own."
>
> Such a thread is easily ignored by those who do not wish to participate, 
> either by skipping it on the we interface, or by creating an email rule 
> filter for topics containing "calm colloquy."
>
> One of the gifts of riding a bicycle is it gives time for processing 
> events of the day and thinking through how I should respond. This is, I 
> believe, an inherent aspect of human powered motion. It is a loss to not be 
> able to discuss this with a diverse group of people who share this activity.
>
> I am happy to start such a thread, but only with your permission, Jim. 
> This would be an experiment to try for a month and discontinue if it fails.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
>

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[RBW] Re: List Status Thoughts: So... here we are Saturday morning

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Franklyn - 

Thank you for your thoughtful post and questions. 

My greatest concern is that everyone is raw enough right now that it 
doesn't take much to trigger things. 

I guess I'm asking people to de-escalate rather than intensify any 
conversations, should that choice be available to them. 

Regarding "neutral" - I'd again emphasize "neutral ground" rather than 
"neutrality". In the sense of not arguing about that here rather than not 
having a position. 

As far as what's appropriate to this group. It's difficult to answer in the 
abstract. Most of the time we all disagree a bit without it becoming quite 
personal. Lately that has not been the case. It might be difficult to talk 
about GP's posts, ride reports to demonstrations or other topics being 
influenced by what's going on. I just ask that we give one another a bit of 
space.  

There's never been a requirement to own a Rivendell to be a part of this 
community. As it says above (or at least above on my page right now):
*RBW Owners Bunch - Dedicated to the discussion of Rivendell Bicycles and 
products*
Ride reports encouraged, as is a respectful, supportive and polite tone in 
all posts.
This group is not endorsed by Rivendell Bicycle Works.  You don't need to 
own one - just an interest in RBW designs is enough to join in.

That's kind of the "center line". Other stuff less so. Yes, that is a bit 
of a vague answer. But I've always felt that the "respectful, supportive 
and polite tone" was what helped to make this a good place to hang out.

Again, Franklyn, thank you for your comments. 

- Jim


On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 6:52:18 AM UTC-7, franklyn wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
> Appreciate what you do to keep the group going. We have "known" each other 
> not quite 25 years, but I think I sent my first entry to your cyclofiend 
> website in the mid 2000's. Since you own this group, your wish to keep the 
> group insulated from exclusively rivendell-related threads rules the day. I 
> suspect 90%+ of the threads would not come close to touching the boundary, 
> though as someone who no longer owns any rivendell, whether I can start any 
> thread is questionable by your current set of rules.
>
> "Neutrality" is quite an artificial concept. I don't think that's quite 
> the proper word here. I think many of us would readily acknowledge we have 
> views, but what you ask us to do on this forum is to be "silent" about them 
> here. However, I also think if the group wishes to really be "neutral", 
> then applying and enforcing the rules fairly is important. Calling 
> something "divisive crap" is decidedly not neutral. 
>
> As I said, I think 90%+ of threads will be fine, but rules are tested in 
> the margin, so I just want to check out a few edge cases.
>
> Is talking about Grant's blahg, if it does not pertain to Rivendell bikes 
> directly, also off limit now? 
>
> What about a hypothetical ride report that includes the following 
> observation: I was on the Capitol crown trail in Bethesda, MD, and saw a 
> cyclist charged three teenagers who were posting fliers about a protest. 
> Later I found out that the cyclist has been apprehended?
>
> Could I include in my ride report hostility I encountered from motorists 
> (there were definitely threads on how many times we have been 'coal rolled' 
> by diesel trucks)? How about if those hostility were racially motivated? Is 
> that too much for this "refuge" then?
>
> I don't know what percent of list members are people of color, women, 
> and/or members of LGBTQ community. I guess my point of asking that question 
> is that when I ride, I encounter things that relate to the core issues of 
> what people are protesting about. Should we exclude those from our ride 
> reports?
>
> Finally, I just want to echo what Jonathan D. said in the other thread, 
> the expectation to be able to insulate oneself from the "noises" is a form 
> of priviledge. I understand that people want to maintain that privilege 
> here, and in the context of a bicycle group this maintenance is harmless 
> enough. But it it's priviledge nonetheless. 
>
> Btw, even our names are political and have systemic racism in it. I came 
> to this country in the early 90s as a teenager. Before 9-11, immigration 
> officers and government workers would openly encourage people to pick 
> americanized names because their native names are "too hard to pronounce". 
> "Franklyn" borned out partially from that, but also is created from my 
> internalized colonization, as an attempt to assimilate and fit in. 
>
> I do value the group interactions and the threads, and I want to reiterate 
> my appreciation for what Jim has done. And all that are not in

[RBW] Re: List Status Thoughts: So... here we are Saturday morning

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Just to be clear... that should have been "...act with a little more _care_ 
before pressing "Post" or clicking "Send"."

Not encouraging people to obtain cars... ;^)

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[RBW] List Status Thoughts: So... here we are Saturday morning

[Cyclofiend Jim]

First - I want to thank everyone who took the time to share their views 
directly or through the other "OT" thread. It is humbling to know that you 
care enough about this community to have strong feelings, and it feels like 
everyone has the underlying desire to make this group a better place. 

That got me thinking about what purpose this group serves. 

At the time of its creation, it was, in my mind, a refuge. 
I used the analogy of a "neutral ground" social gathering place - a pub 
where everyone left their weapons outside and agreed to find similar 
interests rather than inflame differences. 

The tone and tenor of the internet at that time had shifted a bit from the 
generally helpful tone (of say Sheldon Brown's expansive resources) to a 
more caustic approach (anyone remember rec.bicycles...?) and I felt it was 
important to create a supportive refuge. (There were other issues too which 
had to do with RBW's email list and such, but I don't want to digress...).

Things have continued to change since 2007, of course. It's very difficult 
to have a reasonable conversation using only printed words in the best of 
times. Recently we have not been experiencing the best of times. 

So, that's what we have here, today. These times. Our group. 

Does this group matter? Is it important? Is the idea of a refuge viable? Is 
everyone so wired and induced to react that we cannot give one another the 
space to be wrong?

I'm not sure I can answer any of those questions today, and ultimately they 
are maybe not all that important. 

I do know the following:

- I have two blunt tools at my disposal for wrangling this group - deleting 
things and setting moderating levels for members. 
- I have limited time to manage this group (not a change - just a statement 
of fact).
- I can also remove members, though I've only had to do that a few times in 
the history of this group.

I've always felt this group isn't for everyone. iBob is a much more 
free-wheeling, broadly raucous group. I suspect there are groups and 
threads and gatherings on Discord, Facebook, TikTok, WhatsApp, twitter and 
a bunch of other places I'm not hip enough to know about, where bicycles 
are discussed alongside religion, politics, economic theory and other firey 
topics. 

This group - and the individual members who make it up - have lurched into 
and out of strong disagreement many times. Some of you I've known - through 
the old rec.bicycles groups - for more than 25 years. Which is kind of 
weird to write. So, I kind of shake my head and know that you'll 
self-correct, or understand a larger context where your most recent - and 
sometimes quite flippant and unfortunate - comment lives. But newer members 
may not know that, and don't understand us (any of us) to that degree.

I ask those of you who have been here a long time and remain active to act 
with a little more car before pressing "Post" or clicking "Send". Everyone 
is on edge right now and it doesn't take much to spark responses.

Which brings me back to wanting this group to remain a place of neutral 
ground. 

To that end, and to ratchet things down, here are a few thoughts:

- For the next month (through end of July), let's truncate our email 
"footer" - name is fine, location if you want, even what Rivendell you ride 
or lust for. But let's excise any exhaltations, quotes, passages, 
businesses, links or other non-name-rank-serial number level info. 
- Please do not start non-RBW _bicycle_  threads. I will likely simply 
delete them for a while.
- Ride reports encouraged, as always. It helps offset the buy/sell posts 
which proliferate here. 

Finally, a reminder - a thread continues only as long as people comment 
upon it. Nothing wrong with letting someone else have the last word.

Be well, stay safe.

- Jim / list admin




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[RBW] Re: On Topic / Off Topic

[Cyclofiend Jim]

I appreciate the honesty of your feedback. 

It may have been absolutely the wrong move. We are all decidedly imperfect. 

My decision was related more to the tone of the responses (both public and 
moderated) which seemed to be quickly going off-course. it seemed to be 
boiling up, which is happening quite a bit of late. 

- Jim

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[RBW] On Topic / Off Topic

[Cyclofiend Jim]

The topic of this group has always been narrowly defined by design. 

Over the...what...13 years (the old rbw list migrated here to google groups 
in March of 2007) in which I've moderated the group, I've taken down all 
manner of threads which were off topic and got weirdly nasty. 

Mostly they were about SUV's or bait versus fly fishing, sometimes about 
helmets. Innocuous topics that suddenly lurched sideways. Good people 
saying hurtful things for little reason other than getting caught up in the 
call and response of the internet. I usually manage to get the nasty 
threads deleted, but sometimes run out of energy and time before I can get 
rid of others which are kind of on the bubble. That's not the same as tacit 
approval.

Before the COVID situation had developed into even a quarter of what it is 
now, we had an exceptionally nasty thread which expanded here. Caused folks 
to post some very angry things and leave. 

The current demonstrations and responses and actions are playing out on a 
scale I don't feel we can ever hope to cover in this group.In the short 
time following the original post, I deleted responses in the the moderation 
queue which had already crossed the line of civil discourse. Not to mention 
the growing debate simply about whether or not the post was on or off 
topic. 

There are plenty of places online to have those conversations. 

I do understand the anger and the pain and frustration going on right now. 
But there are much more appropriate venues to directly apply yourself to 
begin to address these issues in our culture than talking (or arguing) 
about them here.

Thank you to those of you who contacted me directly - some of you were 
concerned about the growing adversarial tone of comments, others the 
non-RBW content of the post. Others have asked directly why the thread was 
deleted. I hope this gives some insight to the decision. 

I guess I come back to the idea: the topic of this group has always been 
narrowly defined by design at the beginning.

Stay safe and act fairly. 

- Jim / Cyclofiend / list admin

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[RBW] Re: Jim-the-moderator's email address?

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Hey there Patrick - 

For list stuff, cyclofi...@gmail.com should work.

You can always "email the moderator" via the group menu as well.

- J
 

On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 6:56:05 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I just sent Jim a message, but it bounced; the address I have is 
> apparently out of date. Does anyone have the correct email address for him?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Patrick Moore
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Speed wobble

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Yeah. That is my experience as well. 
Mostly it's about the weight between fore/aft. 
They tend to be speed-specific. They'll happen at 18 mph, but not at 17, 
for example.

Jobst wrote some (fairly strongly opinionated) missives about this - this 
came up first: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/shimmy.html

The only time I've had a wobble was one brevet on the Hilsen, in which I'd 
aft-loaded 2x the amount of planned gear due to a weather change, had 
nothing on the front, and sat up as I crested a hill and glided no handed. 
Got a wiggle-wiggle-wiggle and shifted forward slightly, at which point it 
stopped. I never managed to reproduce it with more mindful loading.

Ride buddy JimG had a long struggle with his Kogswell on this topic - he 
had documented it well, which ought to be searchable through his site - 
http://yojimg.net/bike/  

Jim / cyclofiend

On Thursday, March 26, 2020 at 4:46:49 AM UTC-7, Peter White wrote:
>
> I've never found that wheel alignment, which is actually frame alignment, 
> has any effect on wobble. If the frame is out of alignment the two wheels 
> will not follow the same line when the bike is moving in a straight line. 
> For example, if the rear wheel is tracking to the right of the front wheel 
> when moving in a straight line, the bike will tend to turn towards the 
> right. This is easiest to feel when riding no hands. But this won't cause 
> the bike to wobble.
>
> Peter White
>
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 9:48 PM Fryett  wrote:
>
>> Are you wheels perfectly aligned within the frame?
>>
>> On Monday, March 23, 2020 at 7:01:24 PM UTC-7, Friend wrote:
>>>
>>> Does anyone have suggestions for correcting a wobble I get when I ride 
>>> with no hands?
>>>
>> -- 
>>
> -- 
> Peter White
>

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[RBW] Re: PSA Clem Smith Jr/Clememtine Sacramento Craigslist with interesting ad

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Yeah... that's an odd one. 
If you click through the site, their twitter link is dead. Nuthin' on the 
FB.
The company url whois says it was last updated in January of this year. 
It's a pretty roundabout scam if it is one.
Company url shows an...ahem... VERY different bias towards frame materials 
and fit.

The internet can be a very strange place. 

- J


On Thursday, March 26, 2020 at 5:27:04 AM UTC-7, Jeff B wrote:
>
> No relation to seller but here is a Clementine for sale north east of 
> Sacramento with an interesting ad. No mention of Rivendell and whoever made 
> it seemed to just google the downtime name. 
>
> Hoping that nothing nefarious is going on with the sale of it.
>
>
> https://sacramento.craigslist.org/bik/d/granite-bay-clementine-bike-unisex/7098939042.html
>

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[RBW] Re: What is a gear-chart, and how do you use it?

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Back in the day, the answer to many of life's question was "AASHTA", which 
stood for "As Always, Sheldon Has The Answer..." - 

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html

Before the current state of the internet, Sheldon Brown was out there 
documenting and sharing and answering with generosity questions about all 
things bicycle. I miss him.

It is in his spirit that places like this exist. Be safe out there!

- Jim


On Saturday, March 21, 2020 at 8:59:24 AM UTC-7, lambbo wrote:
>
> I haven't gotten far enough in my life to consider chain-line (does that 
> just mean it goes straight back in the middle gear?) or gear ratios...
>
> If it's possible to explain simply, and provide an example, could someone 
> do so?
>
> I have a Roadini that needs new cassette, I have a 46/30 double up front, 
> and currently I have what I think is an 11 speed shimano cassette with one 
> gear missing to make it 10, and it's always ghost shifting, and I was 
> thinking it's time to do maths and make smart purchases for the sake of 
> nice shifting. 
>
> Help?  Thank you smart people!
>

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[RBW] COVID topic is a "dead thread"

[Cyclofiend Jim]

I have deleted the thread. Even though it's 5 days old, there are way too 
many comments which are clearly inappropriate (and unnecessarily nasty) 
especially in light of current conditions. 

Let's all step away from the keyboards, drop it down a notch and reset. 

We won't solve it here. But we're likely to say a few things we wish we had 
not. 

Thanks.

- Jim / cyclofiend / List Admin

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[RBW] Admin calls "Time out, folks!"

[Cyclofiend Jim]

I'm working on a project, but was tipped to a very bad turn in the tone on 
the "how close can we ride" thread (which was largely well-behaved).

I don't have time to sort it out. But as a reminder, arguing about health 
policy or practice is off-topic. Take it elsewhere. Or don't respond. 

If you find yourself suddenly moderated (my only quick fix and I lack more 
time right now), please think of that as a polite admonishment. Same if I 
deleted one of your comments. 

Will dig into this deeper when I have a bit of free time. 

- Jim / cyclofiend / list admin

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[RBW] Why I Might Delete a Thread

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Because my name (or at least position as "moderator") came up recently, I 
thought I'd share a couple thoughts.

- Off-topic?
There were comments that unless I step in and delete a thread, it's not 
off-topic. This is patently wrong. The topic of this group is clear.  The 
direction is clear. We are talking about guardrails. If we keep veering 
toward the guardrail because folks are piling on, that's going to degrade 
the quality of this group. You have the ability to not add momentum to the 
vector. Please take a moment to make a clear choice before posting.

- Adult behavior
The time I need to step in and delete a thread occurs the moment it gets 
personal and/or nasty. Deleting threads is a PITA and takes extra time I 
don't typically have. That's why I rely upon the members of this group to 
take responsibility for the content shared and tone taken. It's why the 
"new member bottleneck" exists. That minor delay is often very revealing as 
to how short people's fuse is and the speed with which umbrage is taken. By 
the time you've been unmoderated, I usually have a sense that you will be a 
contributing member of the community. I've only had to remove a handful of 
folks over the years.

- Moderator's perogitive
Of course, if I see a post that starts with "This may be OT..." then I'm 
just as likely to delete it out of hand. A casualty of early awakenings and 
strong coffee, the condition in which I usually am perusing new and 
moderated posts.

- My goal
Is to continue to fortify respectful communication between members here. 
Too many groups have long since devolved into generally nasty or snide back 
and forths - being glib or clever for some unknown agenda. I think we 
continue to show more restraint on hot button topics and I greatly 
appreciate that effort. 

- Random thoughts
Let's not extrapolate. Let's understand there's a real person on the other 
side of the conversation Let's continue to remember that each of us are 
imperfect individuals. Let's give one another the space to be wrong and 
change our minds.

Happy holidays to all and thanks for adding to the conversation.

- Jim / cyclofi...@gmail.com / moderator-admin


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