Check The International Building Code which requires sprinklers protecting some
decks and in that section the IBC allows deviations from NFPA 13 or the
sprinkler listing. Maybe some bleed over into exterior canopies.
Mike Brown
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL
2006 IBC/IFC 903.3.1.2.1 Balconies and Decks
Compliant Solutions;
1) Buildings of Type V Construction, sheath the underside of the joists and
sprinkler.
2) Build the building of other then Type V construction and avoid the
sprinklers.
John Drucker
Fire Protection Subcode Official (AHJ)
Aren't most of the HSW's listed for light hazard applications only?
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection Group
Mechanical Department
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
There seems to be a consensus among the inspector's I know that the sidewall
is better than a pendent in many cases because of the spray pattern. Would
there be a significant difference in the time it takes to fuse the two
different types of heads?
Thank you,
Greg McGahan
Living Water Fire
To all
Looking at A.8.14.7 in 13 (02 ed), it looks like you are allowed to angle (@
a 45ºangle) a dry pendent through the wall without regard to construction
type. What would be the downside to doing this with a sidewall? (Other than
it does not show an HSW in the picture) Wouldn't the spray
See the June 2006 Edition of Sprinkler Age in the article Balconies and the
IBC by Steve Rians.
Mike Brown
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Holsopple
(forum)
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:51 AM
To:
There are two issues with a sprinkler. Those are sensitivity and distribution.
The sidewall sprinklers must be tested to insure that they provide the
appropriate sensitivity and distribution in distribution tests (RDD ADD) as
well as sensitivity tests and fire tests. I would not think that
I attended a meeting where sprinkler designers and contractors expressed
concern regarding liability despite what the building code says and frankly one
must appreciate their concern.
With that said there exists a low cost method, i.e. sheathing the underside, to
achieve compliance all the way
I did a loading dock that way once about 20 years ago.
On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 7:25 AM, Mike Brown (TECH- GVL)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That has been in NFPA 13 for ages but in 37 years I have never seen on done
that way.
Mike Brown
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
That has been in NFPA 13 for ages but in 37 years I have never seen on done
that way.
Mike Brown
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Holsopple
(forum)
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:51 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Correct me if I am wrong, but if the sidewalls are not acceptable under a
small deck, etc. then the only options are antifreeze or dry systems with
upright sprinklers? I understand what you are saying but in practical fact;
is it worth it? If we go antifreeze, we can stay within the residential
Most of the standard spary hsw's are. Tyco makes an ECOH model good for up to
orindary group II at extended coverage ranges.
Most of these canopies I'm referring to are light hazard; restaurant entries
or dining patios. I rarely see these things with any kind of sheathing since it
seems
Good morning,
I was asked a question a couple of days ago about the specific gravity of
wood in relation to FIGURE 9.3.5.9.1. I think I understand what is being
shown, but I would like verification. The tables within this figure showing
through-bolts and lag screws in wood has a footnote that
keep in mind that there is a 40 gal trigger on AF systems before you
have to apply Darcy-Weisbach
Roland
On Feb 22, 2008, at 9:21 AM, Cliff Whitfield wrote:
Another problem with going AF is now we have to use Darcy Weisbach for
calculations which then opens an additional can of worms.
Bob,
Your conclusion is correct, however I would double check the designation
of the SG for Douglas Fir.
My reference book on this is Modern Timber Engineering, and Table L in
that document shows the
SG for Doug Fir as 0.51, which would mean your multiplier would be 1.25,
resulting in a
Greg,
It looks like the residential use of HSW for open framed patios is acceptable
under IBC 903.3.1.2.1. However, NFPA #13 systems are a different matter and
after searching the IBC I see no reference allowing them unless the framing is
sheathed - which I think started in the '06 ed. of
Right, but I can not count the sidewalls I have seen poking out under decks
in 13 applications.
Thank you,
Greg McGahan
Living Water Fire Protection, LLC
1160 McKenzie Road
Cantonment, FL 32533
850-937-1850
Fax: 850-937-1852
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL
There are a lot of folks out there in colder climates that use AF in
multi-family and those systems get over 40 gallons in a hurry.
Cliff
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Mike-
Were you at James' seminar at last AFSA where he had the sloped nightmare
residential scenarios in which heads in the hall opened before the otherwise
obvious heads that would open first? With the thermal movie?
My point is this-
James was completely surprised at which heads opened under
I would doubt that they would actually test it,
no more than I think they tested the sidewall
under a garage door. This maybe could be a issue
that the 13 committee could deliberate as
practical solution to a challenging problem. The
Dry HSW is obviously the most economically
efficient
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Are you really seeing mostly doug fir? In Pugetopolis it seems I mostly see
HemFir. I haven't seen market numbers. Hemfir as I understand it is Western
Hemlock and several of the true fir species.
Yours,
Bruce Verhei
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Bruce,
I'm not sure on the species used most frequently where Bob was doing
work, however down here in
Southern California it's a pretty wide range, including Western Hemlock
(also called West Coast Hemlock),
and that has an SG of 0.44, which would use the multiplier of 1.17.
I'll be happy
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Yeah, that's why I brought this up; I see it all the time too... I figured
there must be a code I was overlooking. It would be good to know.
Take care,
-Brian
Greg McGahan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Right, but I can not count the sidewalls I have seen poking out under decks
Yes George
George;
I was at the NFPA 13D meeting before the 2007 Edition of NFPA 13 came out and I
went with one purpose and that was to discuss the questions that I get all of
the time as a technical service manager. What do I (designer or engineer) do
when I have a sloped ceiling more
)
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The morale of the story is instead of spending time and money to
travel to the TC about an issue (and then get frustrated because you
can't address the group), SUBMIT A PROPOSAL. This way the subject
MUST be addressed and as the submitter you can speak at the TC meeting.
Educational item
I am looking an apartment building which is to be designed according
to NFPA 13. On the first level, there is a room which contains 55 -
3'x5' tenant storage closets (mostly filled with shelves). These
would need to be sprinklered, which is fine, but the issue comes in
the hydraulics. Section
Could you foresee a fire senario where the 47 extra heads would operate. I
think that this is exactly what the exception is for.
Regards
- Original Message -
From: Paul Pinigis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 22/02/2008 05:30 PM EST
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Gaggle of
I feel certain that this is not what the code intends. In the case you
describe we would consider it Ord. Hazard and calculate it as one room
without omitting the heads.
In virtually all of the cases like this we have seen, the owner has put
chainlink over the tops of the closets and held the
Don't you just love it when the letter of the code works in your favor.
I really don't think that this is what the NFPA 13 committee had in mind
when they developed that section.
Paul J. Pinigis, P.E.
Chief Life Safety Engineer
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL
Chris,
Don't be so quick to jump to that conclusion. Another case of it says this
or it doesn't say that so I can do it. I think you should be very careful
here. Dig a little deeper and get to the logical intent, and not just what
it says or doesn't say in black and white.
This is an
In this situation, the walls are up to the deck and they are enclosed
rooms (or so it shows on the detail). If I eliminate the sprinklers
in the closets, I will only be calcing the sprinklers in the narrow
hallways and using OH to do that will not be a big deal. The ceiling
height (bottom of
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we had a similar scenario and approached AHJ with it. He said to treat room as
OH group 2 and add 5 closet heads to calcs. He sent us a letter advising us to
that affect.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 09:40:06 +1100
Subject: Re:
I think if they are CLOSETS in the traditional sense-
They have a layer of drywall between em, they have ceilings, and doors that
are usually shut- then that's compartmentalization and 2 heads are fine in
the corridor I picture running between rows of em.
If they are partition walls that stop, or
I agree Jeff. You need to look at the whole picture. As others have said, the
usual situation is partial height, with a mesh top and OH2 coverage over.
However, I have also seen individual compartments full height below a concrete
slab. In those casesn if a single head inside the locker
George, I'm not going to light my shot of stress management. First of
all, it decreases the effectiveness of the program and secondly I
have a mustache.
At 06:00 PM 2/22/2008, you wrote:
I think if they are CLOSETS in the traditional sense-
They have a layer of drywall between em, they have
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Okay Sprinkler Guys
Today at the ICC code hearings the Plumbing Committee heard RP3 and RP8.
See the code change here (scroll one or two changes down to RP3)
http://www.iccsafe.org/cs/codes/2007-08cycle/ProposedChanges/V2_RP1-8.pdf
This is a code change which would give
Mike,
Truth is plumbers want to do this work in homes as part of the plumbing
system not unlike electricians who install smoke alarms as part of the
electrical system. These two trades are accustomed to prescriptive
methods in homes by way of the IRC, NEC, NSPC and IFGC. RP3 would seem to
be a
Lots of spruce from our northern neighbors to,
On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 11:11 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Are you really seeing mostly doug fir? In Pugetopolis it seems I mostly see
HemFir. I haven't seen market numbers. Hemfir as I understand it is
Western Hemlock and several of the
Any thoughts about types of sprinklers or protection for them in a school
gymnasium? I can visualize kids shooting basketballs at them.
--
Ed Vining
4819 John Muir Rd
Martinez CA 94553
925-228-879
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We just replaced 65 dry heads. Now the system is loosing air pressure. My
best ear cannot hear any air leaks. Has anyone tried the mechanics stethoscopes
to find air leaks?
Douglas Hicks
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon, Inc
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