Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
you guys care to know the real kicker? the systems that i looked up use KOH in the reaction chambers to produce the hydrogen, not solely water. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
No more wire hangers ever! Poppycock is actually second only to Canola as an oil seed crop. The trouble is that it's genetically modified and it's hard to get seeds. You don't have Election Day in Japan? It's my girlfriend's favorite holiday. She bounces out of bed and doesn't come home until well after dark, exhausted. No, the ice cream isn't so good but you should see our freezers, they're HUGE! Keith Addison wrote: Nah, what we need is fewer Mikes. I can't keep them all straight. I have the same problem with wire coat hangers. Besides, I suspect you stole the election for list owner by manipulating the vote and the voters, and now you're dragging us all down in your ill-conceived assualt on 'Merican values. Biofuels. Sustainable farming. Community Develpoment. Poppycock. I only have three comments. One, it's not ill-conceived. Two, poppycock is a really lousy biofuels crop and I have NEVER promoted it. Three, what's an election? Is that what all these emails from Paris Tyson say will last longer if I watch his video? Come over to the dark side, Keith. Be one of us. I'll help you get a consulting job as a shill for Big Oil. You're a writer, picture the headlines: Leading Biofuels Advocate Admits Problems with Alternative Fuels; Joins Exxon Mobil. Naah, I just couldn't do it to them, think of all the PR professionals who'll be out on the streets when people start saying Who's Exxon Mobil? Soon you'll have a big house in the suburbs, a Suburban and speaking engagements. C'mon.. Do they have good icecream there? Keith -America Keith Addison wrote: Hello Mike I did not mean in the realm of discourse on this list; I meant that the current US administration is dragging the US and a large part of the world down with it. I know, sorry, I used it for a different meaning. You reckon the US needs a new list owner then? Regards Keith snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming
So they eat vegetables because cabbages don't scream and try to run away when you kill them? That's probably what it often boils down to, but not always. cabbages? boil down to? Ouch. Keith Addison wrote: On 11/27/05, dermot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a common argument put forward against vegetarianism. This argument says that if it is shown sometime in the future that plants feel pain then vegetarians will have to give up eating plants. So they eat vegetables because cabbages don't scream and try to run away when you kill them? That's probably what it often boils down to, but not always. Even then, at least they're aware of it. Most people haven't got a clue about what happens in abbatoirs (and before that and after that) and they don't want to know either. On the other hand not all vegetables are born equal. Which particular cabbage is that, that's supposed to be healthier? How was it grown, in what sort of soil? More likely it doesn't have a lot of what it should have and does have a lot of what it shouldn't have, there are more toxins in an industrialised cabbage than in an entire beef. Not all vegetarians avoid meat because of animal rights issues. Why do they avoid it then? Best Keith Take care, Ken ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Disposal of glycerine...burning
Anyone know whether I could mix left-over glycerine w/ dried leaves and woodchips and coffee grounds and compress it into a fireplace log with a hydralic ram and a form for fuel for my wood stove? I've burned coffee logs before and it worked fine. I could braze a stell form and use a bottle jack - kind of like a large rammed earth brick. -Mike Appal Energy wrote: Michael, Treat the cocktail with phosphoric acid to recover the FFAs. Then evaporate the methanol and recover it by condensing. That leaves the precipitate fertilizer and crudely refined glycerol to condtend with. The glycerol is a simple sugar and can be distributed with the graywater from the wash. Presumably you'll be treating the wash water to recover the soaps. Todd Swearingen mostly i mean what settles out of transesterification todd. On 11/27/05, *Appal Energy* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, Are you speaking of what settles out of a transesterification? Or are you speaking of the remaining glycerol after performing a free fatty acid recovery on the same soup? Todd Swearingen Hi folks I haven't started my production yet but I recently realized that I wasn't sure what I was going to do about disposing of the left over glycerine. I live on a small plot on the local reservoir and I can't just dump it or compost it .Any suggestions? what are you guy's doing with it? yes i could just put it in the trash but i have to pay for trash removal. Michael Luich ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/183 - Release Date: 11/25/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
[Massive Snip] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals I'm angry that Bush is rolling back environmental policy in favor of an extract and consume policy. I'm angry that we have made a hash of the war in Iraq and alieniated the US from the world community in the process. I'm livid about our energy policy. But I don't understand what is wrong with considering all options in war. This one was (wisely) discarded. Maybe it should not have made it up the to the president (ie been shot down at a lower level). Had he gone through with it, then yes, very bad decision. But in the context of how can we win/be successful with Bush'es Iraq adventure, I am all for creative and comprehensive thinking. And I am all for eliminating bone headed ideas from that list. To a casual observer, it looks like that is exactly what happened. So what am I missing? thanks Tom Radiance Heating and Plumbing, Inc. (ROC 204149,204150) Tom Scheel 928-380-6294 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] One ton of brush and untreated wood
I have the opportunity to receive no less than one ton of brush and untreated wood on a regular basis. How could this be used in the production of bio fuels? I am in Minneapolis, and willing to work with others in the area. -Matthew Matthew J. Harmon ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming
On 11/28/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snippitysnip.Not all vegetarians avoid meat because of animal rights issues.Why do they avoid it then?BestKeith I can't really say much about the main topic of the discussion, but I can offer an alternative reason for vegetarianism. My grandmother on my mother's side was a vegetarian for over forty years, stemming initially from having to feed five kids on her own in Post-War America, when meat was more expensive. She'd buy it, and cook it, but her kids got it first. She got out of the habit of eating meat, and just never went back until two years before she died. Mom asked why she'd stayed vegetarian for so long, and she just said It wasn't bothering me, so I just didn't think about it. Peace -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
That's why people are upset; those in the know are even more upset. I worked on a Post Reconstruction Database that would have served as a blueprint for what to do after the war. The Bush Admin. told us point-blank to stuff it. Did not want to hear it, did not want hear about it. THE CURRENT SITUATION IN IRAQ IS CONSCIOUSLY, WITH DELIBERATE FORETHOUGHT, COMPLETELY SELF-INFLICTED. See: http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=scott_feil August 1, 2002 http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/item.jsp?item=complete_timeline_of_the_2003_invasion_of_iraq_409 / Events Leading to Iraq Invasion http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_timeline_of_the_2003_invasion_of_iraq/ A panel of experts on Iraq warns the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that administering Iraq after the toppling of Saddam's government will be expensive and difficult. The panel says that “there are no obvious successors to Saddam Hussein and that the Bush administration should be prepared to help install and protect a pro-American government if it decides to topple him—a proposition, they added, that would be long and expensive,” the New York Times reports. “Nearly all the experts argued that setting up a stable, pro-Western government in Baghdad would require a huge infusion of aid and a long term commitment of American troops to maintain peace.” [New York Times, 8/2/02 http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/archive/2002/nytimes080202.htm] Phebe Marr, a professor from the National Defense University who has written prolifically on Iraq, tells the panel, “If the US is going to take the responsibility for removing the current leadership, it should assume that it cannot get the results it wants on the cheap.” Scott Feil, a retired Army colonel who studies postwar reconstruction programs, says that 75,000 troops will be needed in Iraq to stabilize the country after Saddam is removed from power. He estimates that such a deployment will cost in excess of $16 billion per year. After the first 12 months, the colonel says that the force could be reduced in number, possibly to as low as 5,000, though this military presence would have to be maintained for at least another five years. In contrast, Caspar W. Weinberger, the secretary of defense under President Ronald Reagan argues that the United States will not need to undertake a major effort in rebuilding Iraq. [New York Times, 8/2/02 http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/archive/2002/nytimes080202.htm] I'm angry that Bush is rolling back environmental policy in favor of an extract and consume policy. I'm angry that we have made a hash of the war in Iraq and alieniated the US from the world community in the process. I'm livid about our energy policy. But I don't understand what is wrong with considering all options in war. This one was (wisely) discarded. Maybe it should not have made it up the to the president (ie been shot down at a lower level). Had he gone through with it, then yes, very bad decision. But in the context of how can we win/be successful with Bush'es Iraq adventure, I am all for creative and comprehensive thinking. And I am all for eliminating bone headed ideas from that list. To a casual observer, it looks like that is exactly what happened. So what am I missing? thanks Tom Radiance Heating and Plumbing, Inc. (ROC 204149,204150) Tom Scheel 928-380-6294 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Disposal of glycerine...burning
Hi Mike, I make logs with sawdust apacked in a milk carton. If you have a fire that burns hot it will last between 1 to 3 hours. No ram necessary unless you like to put in a bunch of extra work for something that you are going to burn anyway. I was thinking of finding large cardboard tubes and using that to pack. Might be easier if I can find a source of dry ones. fredOn 11/28/05, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone know whether I could mix left-over glycerine w/ dried leaves andwoodchips and coffee grounds and compress itinto a fireplace log with a hydralic ram and a form for fuel for my woodstove?I've burned coffee logs before and it worked fine. I could braze a stell form and use a bottle jack - kind of like a largerammed earth brick.-MikeAppal Energy wrote:Michael,Treat the cocktail with phosphoric acid to recover the FFAs. Then evaporate the methanol and recover it by condensing. That leaves theprecipitate fertilizer and crudely refined glycerol to condtend with.The glycerol is a simple sugar and can be distributed with the graywater from the wash. Presumably you'll be treating the wash water to recoverthe soaps.Todd Swearingenmostly i mean what settles out of transesterification todd. On 11/27/05, *Appal Energy* [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael,Are you speaking of what settles out of a transesterification? Or areyou speaking of the remaining glycerol after performing a free fattyacid recovery on the same soup? Todd SwearingenHi folks I haven't started my production yet but I recently realizedthat I wasn't sure what I was going to do about disposing of the left over glycerine.I live on a small plot on the local reservoir and I can't justdump itor compost it .Any suggestions? what are you guy's doing with it? yes i could just put it in the trash but i have to pay for trashremoval.Michael Luich___ Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/183 - Release Date: 11/25/2005___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Disposal of glycerine...burning
Did you mix anything w/ the sawdust? We have gobs of dried leaves and wood chips. I thought of packing them in paper bags mixed w/ glycerine. I have a decent VC stove - I can control the fire to get pretty much any kind of burn I need. Fred Finch wrote: Hi Mike, I make logs with sawdust apacked in a milk carton. If you have a fire that burns hot it will last between 1 to 3 hours. No ram necessary unless you like to put in a bunch of extra work for something that you are going to burn anyway. I was thinking of finding large cardboard tubes and using that to pack. Might be easier if I can find a source of dry ones. fred On 11/28/05, *Mike Weaver* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone know whether I could mix left-over glycerine w/ dried leaves and woodchips and coffee grounds and compress it into a fireplace log with a hydralic ram and a form for fuel for my wood stove? I've burned coffee logs before and it worked fine. I could braze a stell form and use a bottle jack - kind of like a large rammed earth brick. -Mike Appal Energy wrote: Michael, Treat the cocktail with phosphoric acid to recover the FFAs. Then evaporate the methanol and recover it by condensing. That leaves the precipitate fertilizer and crudely refined glycerol to condtend with. The glycerol is a simple sugar and can be distributed with the graywater from the wash. Presumably you'll be treating the wash water to recover the soaps. Todd Swearingen mostly i mean what settles out of transesterification todd. On 11/27/05, *Appal Energy* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, Are you speaking of what settles out of a transesterification? Or are you speaking of the remaining glycerol after performing a free fatty acid recovery on the same soup? Todd Swearingen Hi folks I haven't started my production yet but I recently realized that I wasn't sure what I was going to do about disposing of the left over glycerine. I live on a small plot on the local reservoir and I can't just dump it or compost it .Any suggestions? what are you guy's doing with it? yes i could just put it in the trash but i have to pay for trash removal. Michael Luich ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/183 - Release Date: 11/25/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles?
Nike, Opinion is a matter of perspective. That is why we have lobbyists. Your, tongue in cheek comments, on Government efficiency are certainly accurate, from the perspective of the beneficiaries (wealthy). Mine are written from the perspective of the overtaxed (poor/ middle class). My comments were originally made after thread participants were suggesting more tax as a viable solution. When lawmakers hear this (even once), they seize and spin to build more incoming revenue. The first inefficiency we need to tackle is us. We need to recognize that it is no longer all right to raise taxes. -- Original Message -- From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:12:45 -0500 You're using the wrong metrics. The US government works perfectly well. It transfers money from the poor to the wealthy, and quite well I might add, so I don't buy your not efficient argument. Just look at the recent energy bill. Look at the Halliburton contracts. This is a very efficient, well-run system. What did you think the government is supposed to do? radema wrote: Great discussion threads. I find myself drawn in without restraint. IMO, the largest problem facing us via government isn't reactive governing, its waste (politically attractive) and vote buying (democracy). While the case can be made for higher Government revenue requiremnts, it is predicated on the assumption that Government works efficiently. This is folly in the extreme sense. We are witness to personal agendas from the top down to the smallest fiefdom. A thick self-serving union layer checks, double checks or escalates every daily activity for dual custody deniability. A narrowly defined job scope is rigorously designed to allow the use of unskilled labor and systemically CYA when a resource is confronted by a new or evolutionary 'issue' (previously undefined). In other words the system loses issues where resources are not protected. Output is politically attractive in the form of plausible deniability. Action plans are equated to procedure and the optic of action. This results in productivity that is not objective driven. Rad -- Original Message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 10:53:33 -0500 (EST) There are major costs besides road maintenance and building, such as health costs of pollution medical (National Health Service) and other costs related to accidents, costs of policing. Back in the late 80's Pollution Probe in Toronto published a study The Costs of the Car which estimted that charging all costs to fuel would result in a total gasoline price of $5 to$6 CDN per Imperial gallon. the price would be almost double now. Also, the more roads the less land there is for other uses and the lower the tax base to pay for ever increasing roads and infrastructure. The ultimate solution is charges for road use; difficult but becoming easier with the advance of computers and electronics. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Sun, 27 Nov 2005, Chris lloyd wrote: If you are talking about hybrids that use electricity the government gets the fuel side tax but would have a rough time implementing a zap tax for charging the vehicle but its not out of the question they may try. Here in the UK we buy a licence to use our vehicles on public roads, I pay about 280 dollars a year which is far more than is required for road maintenance/building. Chris. Wessex Ferret Club www.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
"Nah, what we need is fewer Mikes."Hey! Easy now!By the way, I happen to likePoppycock.Fiddle Faddle and Screaming Yellow Zonkers aren't bad either."Soon you'll have a big house in the suburbs [Keith]"I learned from experience that the suburbs is where you go when you don't want to know your neighbors.Yea! I'd like to see that. Throw Keith in the 'burbs and see what happens. I can see it now - the return of block parties, aspike in voter turn-out, the mysterious disappearance of SUV's and communal stills to fuelhybrids (andblock parties).MikeKeith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nah, what we need is fewer Mikes. I can't keep them all straight.I have the same problem with wire coat hangers.Besides, I suspect you stole the election for list owner by manipulatingthe vote and the voters, and now you're dragging us all down in yourill-conceived assualt on 'Merican values. Biofuels. Sustainablefarming. Community Develpoment. Poppycock.I only have three comments. One, it's not ill-conceived. Two, poppycock is a really lousy biofuels crop and I have NEVER promoted it. Three, what's an election? Is that what all these emails from Paris Tyson say will last longer if I watch his video?Come over to the dark side, Keith. Be one of us. I'll help you get aconsulting job as a shill for "Big Oil." You're a writer, picture theheadlines:"Leading Biofuels Advocate Admits Problems with Alternative Fuels; JoinsExxon Mobil."Naah, I just couldn't do it to them, think of all the PR professionals who'll be out on the streets when people start saying "Who's Exxon Mobil?"Soon you'll have a big house in the suburbs, a Suburban and speakingengagements.C'mon..Do they have good icecream there?Keith___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
But I don't understand what is wrong with considering all options in war. This one was (wisely) discarded. Maybe it should not have made it up the to the president (ie been shot down at a lower level). Had he gone through with it, then yes, very bad decision. But in the context of how can we win/be successful with Bush'es Iraq adventure, I am all for creative and comprehensive thinking. And I am all for eliminating bone headed ideas from that list. To a casual observer, it looks like that is exactly what happened. So what am I missing? thanks Tom I'm no expert, but it seems to me that there are agreements with countries around the world, like the Geneva convention, and who knows what else, that prohibit attacking citizens, public infrastructure, utilities.. I'm sure that someone more knowledgeable will chime in. -- Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. -George Carlin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] One ton of brush and untreated wood
Hi Matthew, Gassification is an option but if you can burn it hot, heating your house may be a good option. I do it with a wood burner. fredOn 11/28/05, Matthew J. Harmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have the opportunity to receive no less than one ton of brush anduntreated wood on a regular basis. How could this be used in theproduction of bio fuels?I am in Minneapolis, and willing to work with others in the area. -MatthewMatthew J. Harmon___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
My suburban neighbors hate me. They hate: 1. The wood stove. (But SUV's are ok) - I don't like the smell. 2. The sound of me splitting wood. (Could you please do that another time? I can't hear my program - true story) 3. Building a shed. (Called the county on me dozens of times, but heck, I can read. It's legal.) 4. Woodpile - neatly stacked, with a cover. (That thing is so ugly - you're going to burn it all this year, I hope.) 5. My now late and lamented 1988 Isuzu Trooper. (Are you going to KEEP that thing?) 6. My lawn. I hate grass. I won't put weed killer on it. I just have to figure out a non-grass front yard. 7. Cedar shake on my house. (You're not going to leave that wood on there, are you? It's so ugly. Vinyl looks neater) 8. My garden. (Those plants look so shaggy - can't you trim them?) No, they're tomato plants. Tomato plants alwasy look shaggy. I could go on... Michael Redler wrote: */Nah, what we need is fewer Mikes./* Hey! Easy now! By the way, I happen to like Poppycock. Fiddle Faddle and Screaming Yellow Zonkers aren't bad either. */Soon you'll have a big house in the suburbs [Keith]/* I learned from experience that the suburbs is where you go when you don't want to know your neighbors. Yea! I'd like to see that. Throw Keith in the 'burbs and see what happens. I can see it now - the return of block parties, a spike in voter turn-out, the mysterious disappearance of SUV's and communal stills to fuel hybrids (and block parties). Mike */Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Nah, what we need is fewer Mikes. I can't keep them all straight. I have the same problem with wire coat hangers. Besides, I suspect you stole the election for list owner by manipulating the vote and the voters, and now you're dragging us all down in your ill-conceived assualt on 'Merican values. Biofuels. Sustainable farming. Community Develpoment. Poppycock. I only have three comments. One, it's not ill-conceived. Two, poppycock is a really lousy biofuels crop and I have NEVER promoted it. Three, what's an election? Is that what all these emails from Paris Tyson say will last longer if I watch his video? Come over to the dark side, Keith. Be one of us. I'll help you get a consulting job as a shill for Big Oil. You're a writer, picture the headlines: Leading Biofuels Advocate Admits Problems with Alternative Fuels; Joins Exxon Mobil. Naah, I just couldn't do it to them, think of all the PR professionals who'll be out on the streets when people start saying Who's Exxon Mobil? Soon you'll have a big house in the suburbs, a Suburban and speaking engagements. C'mon.. Do they have good icecream there? Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] US Guvmint to tax alternate fuel vehicles?
poor/ middle class - then you don't really count. Do you have a lobbyist? How many congresspeople do you control? Besides, we're getting off-point. The issue isn't really that the whole world is against us, we're feeding lives, tax dollars and borrowed money into Iraq at an unsustainable rate, our health care system only works for the wealthy, we're hooked on foreign oil and have a recored trade imbalance and deficit. No, the real issue is, uh, GAY MARRIAGE! If you don't vote for me, GAY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GO AND GET MARRIED! And if that's out of steam, uh, the liberals want to ban prayer in school! Just like Lucy, Charlie Brown and the ol' football trick, it works everytime. radema wrote: Nike, Opinion is a matter of perspective. That is why we have lobbyists. Your, ‘tongue in cheek comments’, on Government efficiency are certainly accurate, from the perspective of the beneficiaries (wealthy). Mine are written from the perspective of the overtaxed (poor/ middle class). My comments were originally made after thread participants were suggesting more tax as a viable solution. When lawmakers hear this (even once), they seize and spin to build more incoming revenue. The first inefficiency we need to tackle is us. We need to recognize that it is no longer all right to raise taxes. -- Original Message -- From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:12:45 -0500 You're using the wrong metrics. The US government works perfectly well. It transfers money from the poor to the wealthy, and quite well I might add, so I don't buy your not efficient argument. Just look at the recent energy bill. Look at the Halliburton contracts. This is a very efficient, well-run system. What did you think the government is supposed to do? radema wrote: Great discussion threads. I find myself drawn in without restraint. IMO, the largest problem facing us via government isn't reactive governing, its waste (politically attractive) and vote buying (democracy). While the case can be made for higher Government revenue requiremnts, it is predicated on the assumption that Government works efficiently. This is folly in the extreme sense. We are witness to personal agendas from the top down to the smallest fiefdom. A thick self-serving union layer checks, double checks or escalates every daily activity for dual custody deniability. A narrowly defined job scope is rigorously designed to allow the use of unskilled labor and systemically CYA when a resource is confronted by a new or evolutionary 'issue' (previously undefined). In other words the system loses issues where resources are not protected. Output is politically attractive in the form of plausible deniability. Action plans are equated to procedure and the optic of action. This results in productivity that is not objective driven. Rad -- Original Message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 10:53:33 -0500 (EST) There are major costs besides road maintenance and building, such as health costs of pollution medical (National Health Service) and other costs related to accidents, costs of policing. Back in the late 80's Pollution Probe in Toronto published a study The Costs of the Car which estimted that charging all costs to fuel would result in a total gasoline price of $5 to$6 CDN per Imperial gallon. the price would be almost double now. Also, the more roads the less land there is for other uses and the lower the tax base to pay for ever increasing roads and infrastructure. The ultimate solution is charges for road use; difficult but becoming easier with the advance of computers and electronics. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Sun, 27 Nov 2005, Chris lloyd wrote: If you are talking about hybrids that use electricity the government gets the fuel side tax but would have a rough time implementing a zap tax for charging the vehicle but its not out of the question they may try. Here in the UK we buy a licence to use our vehicles on public roads, I pay about 280 dollars a year which is far more than is required for road maintenance/building. Chris. Wessex Ferret Club www.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
What a quaint notion. Geneva convention, and who knowswhat else, that prohibit attacking citizens, public infrastructure, utilities.. G wrote: But I don't understand what is wrong with considering all options in war. This one was (wisely) discarded. Maybe it should not have made it up the to the president (ie been shot down at a lower level). Had he gone through with it, then yes, very bad decision. But in the context of how can we win/be successful with Bush'es Iraq adventure, I am all for creative and comprehensive thinking. And I am all for eliminating bone headed ideas from that list. To a casual observer, it looks like that is exactly what happened. So what am I missing? thanks Tom I'm no expert, but it seems to me that there are agreements with countries around the world, like the Geneva convention, and who knows what else, that prohibit attacking citizens, public infrastructure, utilities.. I'm sure that someone more knowledgeable will chime in. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] One ton of brush and untreated wood
Greetings, I could sure use it to help my compost pile, which makes my fields more fertile then I can grow more veggies to collect the oil from. Bright Blessings, Kim in Texas At 02:03 AM 11/28/2005, you wrote: I have the opportunity to receive no less than one ton of brush and untreated wood on a regular basis. How could this be used in the production of bio fuels? I am in Minneapolis, and willing to work with others in the area. -Matthew Matthew J. Harmon ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
JTF was 4th on the list after The Times and The Post. Keep your head down. Keith Addison wrote: Hello Tom So what am I missing? Maybe that you think it's a war, but the rest of the world sees it as an illegal invasion and criminal occupation. How could destroying an independent news agency in a friendly country and killing its journalists and staff possibly be considered an option??? Millions and millions of people worldwide have and are protesting very loudly against your war, they're giving you an even worse press than Al Jazeera, should bombing them too also be considered an option? Or should it avoided on the grounds that it would be a very bad decision? There's a lot of material in the Biofuel list archives, from very early on, that Americans who think it's a war object to probably just as much as they object to Al Jazeera (their objections are also in the archives) (and so is Al Jazeera), and it hasn't stopped yet. I hope you'll see the option of bombing us as a very bad decision too. How about this: The war dead. Who did you think of - 2,000 of our boys? Most other people think that means the 100,000-odd Iraqis killed, and your boys are the killers. There might be some sympathy for them, everyone knows they're just dupes, cheap cannon fodder, discard-after-use, but more likely it would be We told you so, you didn't want to listen. And meanwhile everybody forgets about Afghanistan. (Your government even forgot to include it in the budget after promising not to just walk away this time like they did last time.) It's not that it's exactly anything new, any of this, it's been going on for 60 years now and more, while Americans turned a blind eye to what Washington did abroad with their tax money. http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg45962.html Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an Economic Hit Man http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/41438/ An Interview with William Blum http://members.aol.com/superogue/homepage.htm Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower, by William Blum http://members.aol.com/bblum6/American_holocaust.htm Killing Hope: U.S. Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II, by William Blum http://members.aol.com/bblum6/American_holocaust.htm The American Holocaust Time to stop. Best wishes Keith [Massive Snip] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals I'm angry that Bush is rolling back environmental policy in favor of an extract and consume policy. I'm angry that we have made a hash of the war in Iraq and alieniated the US from the world community in the process. I'm livid about our energy policy. But I don't understand what is wrong with considering all options in war. This one was (wisely) discarded. Maybe it should not have made it up the to the president (ie been shot down at a lower level). Had he gone through with it, then yes, very bad decision. But in the context of how can we win/be successful with Bush'es Iraq adventure, I am all for creative and comprehensive thinking. And I am all for eliminating bone headed ideas from that list. To a casual observer, it looks like that is exactly what happened. So what am I missing? thanks Tom Radiance Heating and Plumbing, Inc. (ROC 204149,204150) Tom Scheel 928-380-6294 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Tom what you're missing is the far-wider implications of this disgrace: that this bumbling neo-con figurehead/posterboy illegally residing in (and fronting for) the corporatocracy that IS the White House (AND Congress, and soon the entire judiciary as well) can, does, entertain feel enuf immunity to bring up such insane notions for how to deal w/anyone who embarrasses him/them. Makes the Valerie Plame fiasco look like kids playing in a sandbox! And, of course, surely you've noticed that this latest bumble has abruptly disappeared from MM (mainstream media). E. Allen --- Tom Scheel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Massive Snip] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals I'm angry that Bush is rolling back environmental policy in favor of an extract and consume policy. I'm angry that we have made a hash of the war in Iraq and alieniated the US from the world community in the process. I'm livid about our energy policy. But I don't understand what is wrong with considering all options in war. This one was (wisely) discarded. Maybe it should not have made it up the to the president (ie been shot down at a lower level). Had he gone through with it, then yes, very bad decision. But in the context of how can we win/be successful with Bush'es Iraq adventure, I am all for creative and comprehensive thinking. And I am all for eliminating bone headed ideas from that list. To a casual observer, it looks like that is exactly what happened. So what am I missing? thanks Tom Radiance Heating and Plumbing, Inc. (ROC 204149,204150) Tom Scheel 928-380-6294 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
"But I don't understand what is wrong with considering all options in war."I'm not surprised that anyone on this list would suggest having an open mind on anything. After all, it is the single biggest strength of the biofuel's collective mind (so to speak).However, the only option in war (IMO)is to put down the antagonists.Nearly every war the US has fought, has been as an extension of its foreign policy and politics- making it one of the worlds biggest antagonists.To a pacifist, the reasons for stopping war are obvious. on a practical level, war has not been a successful way of extending any political policy.[Biofuel] Keegan vs. von Clausewitz: war is not a worthwhile instrument of national policy http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg52828.html(IMO) the decision boils down toweighing the benefits of either ten years of occupation or ten years of civil war. In the context of self determination and the history of most democracies which have emerged over the past hundred years, the decision seems pretty unambiguous.Mike Tom Scheel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm angry that Bush is rolling back environmentalpolicy in favor of an extract and consume policy. I'mangry that we have made a hash of the war in Iraq andalieniated the US from the world community in theprocess. I'm livid about our energy "policy".But I don't understand what is wrong with consideringall options in war. This one was (wisely) discarded.Maybe it should not have made it up the to thepresident (ie been shot down at a lower level). Had hegone through with it, then yes, very bad decision. Butin the context of how can we win/be successful withBush'es Iraq adventure, I am all for creative andcomprehensive thinking. And I am all for eliminatingbone headed ideas from that list. To a casualobserver, it looks like that is exactly what happened.So what am I missing?thanksTomRadiance Heating and Plumbing, Inc. (ROC 204149,204150)Tom Scheel928-380-6294___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Germany and Japan were occupied with a long-range plan - The Marshall Plan. Arguably it worked. Afganistan and Iraq were flattened and then... Michael Redler wrote: /But I don't understand what is wrong with considering all options in war./ I'm not surprised that anyone on this list would suggest having an open mind on anything. After all, it is the single biggest strength of the biofuel's collective mind (so to speak). However, the only option in war (IMO) is to put down the antagonists. Nearly every war the US has fought, has been as an extension of its foreign policy and politics - making it one of the worlds biggest antagonists. To a pacifist, the reasons for stopping war are obvious. on a practical level, war has not been a successful way of extending any political policy. [Biofuel] Keegan vs. von Clausewitz: war is not a worthwhile instrument of national policy http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg52828.html (IMO) the decision boils down to weighing the benefits of either ten years of occupation or ten years of civil war. In the context of self determination and the history of most democracies which have emerged over the past hundred years, the decision seems pretty unambiguous. Mike */Tom Scheel [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: I'm angry that Bush is rolling back environmental policy in favor of an extract and consume policy. I'm angry that we have made a hash of the war in Iraq and alieniated the US from the world community in the process. I'm livid about our energy policy. But I don't understand what is wrong with considering all options in war. This one was (wisely) discarded. Maybe it should not have made it up the to the president (ie been shot down at a lower level). Had he gone through with it, then yes, very bad decision. But in the context of how can we win/be successful with Bush'es Iraq adventure, I am all for creative and comprehensive thinking. And I am all for eliminating bone headed ideas from that list. To a casual observer, it looks like that is exactly what happened. So what am I missing? thanks Tom Radiance Heating and Plumbing, Inc. (ROC 204149,204150) Tom Scheel 928-380-6294 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
I thought you Mikes were my friends. You'd truly doom me to such a fate? :-( Keith snip Yea! I'd like to see that. Throw Keith in the 'burbs and see what happens. I can see it now - the return of block parties, a spike in voter turn-out, the mysterious disappearance of SUV's and communal stills to fuel hybrids (and block parties). Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
It's that other Mike. Redler! I already live in suburban purgatory! Keith Addison wrote: I thought you Mikes were my friends. You'd truly doom me to such a fate? :-( Keith snip Yea! I'd like to see that. Throw Keith in the 'burbs and see what happens. I can see it now - the return of block parties, a spike in voter turn-out, the mysterious disappearance of SUV's and communal stills to fuel hybrids (and block parties). Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming
Two more reasons for being vegetarian: Comparing factory farmed meat with factory farmed vegetables, the meat consumes much more fossil fuel Btu's, and fossil water from aquifers, per calorie of food. Health effects of eating too much red meat. I'm not vegetarian, but I don't eat a big chunk of red meat at each meal like much of America does, mostly because I don't need that much fat and cholesterol in my diet. On 11/27/05, Kurt Nolte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/28/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snippitysnip. Not all vegetarians avoid meat because of animal rights issues. Why do they avoid it then? Best Keith I can't really say much about the main topic of the discussion, but I can offer an alternative reason for vegetarianism. My grandmother on my mother's side was a vegetarian for over forty years, stemming initially from having to feed five kids on her own in Post-War America, when meat was more expensive. She'd buy it, and cook it, but her kids got it first. She got out of the habit of eating meat, and just never went back until two years before she died. Mom asked why she'd stayed vegetarian for so long, and she just said It wasn't bothering me, so I just didn't think about it. Peace -Kurt ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
The Marshall Plan was developed well after World War II was over, in the absence of any other sensible plan for dealing with the situation in Germany and Europe. One major reason for its development and ready acceptance was that there was then a hostile great power (the USSR) which was benefiting from the chaos and despair in Europe. That said, the U.S. was a different country then. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Mon, 28 Nov 2005, Mike Weaver wrote: Germany and Japan were occupied with a long-range plan - The Marshall Plan. Arguably it worked. Afganistan and Iraq were flattened and then... ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
JTF was 4th on the list after The Times and The Post. Fourth?? AFTER The Times and The Post??? Oh, the shame, the shame! Keep your head down. Yes, and the powder dry. You know, the smelling-salts powder. Keith Keith Addison wrote: Hello Tom So what am I missing? Maybe that you think it's a war, but the rest of the world sees it as an illegal invasion and criminal occupation. How could destroying an independent news agency in a friendly country and killing its journalists and staff possibly be considered an option??? Millions and millions of people worldwide have and are protesting very loudly against your war, they're giving you an even worse press than Al Jazeera, should bombing them too also be considered an option? Or should it avoided on the grounds that it would be a very bad decision? There's a lot of material in the Biofuel list archives, from very early on, that Americans who think it's a war object to probably just as much as they object to Al Jazeera (their objections are also in the archives) (and so is Al Jazeera), and it hasn't stopped yet. I hope you'll see the option of bombing us as a very bad decision too. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
hostile great power (the USSR) Kind of like Al Qaeda? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Marshall Plan was developed well after World War II was over, in the absence of any other sensible plan for dealing with the situation in Germany and Europe. One major reason for its development and ready acceptance was that there was then a hostile great power (the USSR) which was benefiting from the chaos and despair in Europe. That said, the U.S. was a different country then. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Mon, 28 Nov 2005, Mike Weaver wrote: Germany and Japan were occupied with a long-range plan - The Marshall Plan. Arguably it worked. Afganistan and Iraq were flattened and then... ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
All of the little electrolyzers I have seen use KOH as the electrolyte. Essentially no more than a ni-cad battery run at well above electrolysis voltage, with means to separate and gather the oxygen and hydrogen, rather than just venting it out of the top of the cell like the batteries do. And you keep having to add distilled water, just like when you run your batteries at too high a float voltage. On 11/28/05, Jason and Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you guys care to know the real kicker? the systems that i looked up use KOH in the reaction chambers to produce the hydrogen, not solely water. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
I'm no expert, but it seems to me that there are agreements with countries around the world, like the Geneva convention, and who knows what else, that prohibit attacking citizens, public infrastructure, utilities.. I'm sure that someone more knowledgeable will chime in. Well what about the military action taken on the Faluja General Hospital? That was an undisputable violation of the Geneva convention. The US government is clearly guilty of international war crimes. I don't understand why the people of that country are not doing anything about this. There are plenty of grounds for impeachment without anyone getting thier lips dirty! Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Household electricity consumption questions, remarks, and theorizing.
Ouch. I've been reading this discussion, and realize how little the world at large actually knows about how to properly do off grid power systems. I grew up with a battery/PV system, and now work designing them. Several of the answers have been right in line, but if you want a more in depth background here are some good websites to get off in the right direction. www.backwoodssolar.com www.homepower.com From my experience with off grid systems: #1 -- you will never generate power for cheaper than buying it from the grid in the US (unless you are in a few very expensive places, or can get incentives to pay for it, which many states now have for on grid PV systems). If there is no grid power available within a quarter mile, a PV/battery system is a no brainer though. #2 -- if you are used to the typical american lifestyle, you will never be happy with an off grid PV system (unless you spend 5 figures for it). #3 -- car batteries will need to be replaced every year at most, and will make you hate the system. Get real deep cycle solar batteries. #4 -- you will learn to hate anything with a ICE, and so will your neighbors, if they can hear it. Unless you are in a northern location (Alaska comes to mind) that doesn't get any sun in the winter, a generator should only be a backup, not a primary energy source. Zeke ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Tom, So what am I missing? Could it be the fact that the commander in chief was so serious about it and he had to be talked out of it by the leader of another nation? That it was but a handful of syllables from becoming a reality? That this is the type of mind in control of an arsenal of nuclear weapons? That it's the same mindset that kept planned for war in advance of and in lieu of accurate intelligence, even to the point of courting the UN while having already calculated a departure date? U, maybe you would care to rephrase that question? Todd Swearingen Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. [Massive Snip] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals I'm angry that Bush is rolling back environmental policy in favor of an extract and consume policy. I'm angry that we have made a hash of the war in Iraq and alieniated the US from the world community in the process. I'm livid about our energy policy. But I don't understand what is wrong with considering all options in war. This one was (wisely) discarded. Maybe it should not have made it up the to the president (ie been shot down at a lower level). Had he gone through with it, then yes, very bad decision. But in the context of how can we win/be successful with Bush'es Iraq adventure, I am all for creative and comprehensive thinking. And I am all for eliminating bone headed ideas from that list. To a casual observer, it looks like that is exactly what happened. So what am I missing? thanks Tom Radiance Heating and Plumbing, Inc. (ROC 204149,204150) Tom Scheel 928-380-6294 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] One ton of brush and untreated wood
Matthew, It already is a biofuel. Start thinking down draught gasifier. Todd Swearingen I have the opportunity to receive no less than one ton of brush and untreated wood on a regular basis. How could this be used in the production of bio fuels? I am in Minneapolis, and willing to work with others in the area. -Matthew Matthew J. Harmon ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
Jason and Katie wrote: you guys care to know the real kicker? the systems that i looked up use KOH in the reaction chambers to produce the hydrogen, not solely water. Why is that a real kicker? The KOH serves to lower the electrical resistance of the water. Nafion membranes do the same thing WITHOUT electrolyte, but they are fragile and expensive. Electrolysis of water using a base electrolyte will produce hydrogen and oxygen. Normally, the oxygen is simply vented to the atmosphere, but it could be stored and compressed for later use. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] One ton of brush and untreated wood
Try the gasifier list at repp.org Appal Energy wrote: Matthew, It already is a biofuel. Start thinking down draught gasifier. Todd Swearingen I have the opportunity to receive no less than one ton of brush and untreated wood on a regular basis. How could this be used in the production of bio fuels? I am in Minneapolis, and willing to work with others in the area. -Matthew Matthew J. Harmon ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming
On 11/28/05, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not all vegetarians avoid meat because of animal rights issues. Why do they avoid it then? Best Keith Are you itchin' for a fight? ;^) Well, I trust that based on our long discussion a few months ago, that you know why I avoided meat for so many years. But, I'll bite anyway...there are those that feel that the land used to grow feed for livestock could be better used to grow feed for humans. There are also those that believe that there is an excessive burden placed on the environment by the poor farming practices followed by the large corporate farms that provide most of the animal-based food products in some portions of the world. Keith, before this turns into a heated debate, lets both agree that we both understand that properly grazing animals helps to amend soil without harming watersheds. Which really does answer both of the reasons mentioned above for avoiding meat. I had avoided meats and dairies for many, many years because of environmental damage done be agro-business. Prior to the Pimentel is at it again thread back in July, I followed an almost vegan diet. In the course of that discussion and over the next 6 weeks or so, I did some serious searching and found many local farmers that are raising organic, grassfed meats and organic pastured poultry. My wife and I had switched to these local farms over the grocery store for the meats that our kids wished to eat. After some additional food-mile considerations, I have begun eating locally grown, organic, grassfed meats and dairy to augment the locally grown, organic vegetables that I was always able to find seasonally. With the exception of rice and the occasional exotic treat, we have reduced our food shed to a six mile radius. Once I find a source of local barley, we'll kick the rice habit also. But, not everyone is so lucky as I am to have these resources available. If I didn't have these farms close by, I would be happy to return to a diet of based solely on locally grown plant foods. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Don't forget Bechtel Nor Halliburton, Kellogg, Brown and Root, Vinnell, all the other usual suspects, and the entire hall of corporateer infamy right behind them. radema wrote: -- Original Message -- From: bmolloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 09:59:23 +1300 Bush's father is a member of Carlisle, as was O'Bin Laden's dad. Elder Bin Laden isn't anymore. I think we've gone a bit off course here. As Pitt-Rivers said in his speech to the American Veterans for Peace conference back in '02, seeing Bush as the author of our foreign policy is the equivalent of blaming Mickey Mouse when Disney screws up. In full: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg27072.html [biofuel] They don't know... In other words, the real movers and shakers are the good ole boys who form the Carlisle group, one of the offshoots of the military-industrial complex which really runs America. Bush is simply the patsy in front of house. Regards, Bob. You're completely right. They'd've done a lot better with Max Headroom though, IMHO. But it doesn't let young master Bush off any hooks. Re Carlyle: http://snipurl.com/kagb [Biofuel] Search results for 'Carlyle' (25 matches) http://www.hereinreality.com/carlyle.html Meet The Carlyle Group - Former World Leaders and Washington Insiders Make Billions from the War on Terrorism http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3995.htm Exposed: The Carlyle Group: Shocking documentary uncovers the subversion of Americas democracy. Shocking documentary uncovers the subversion of Americas democracy. I defy you to watch this 48 minute documentary and not be outraged about the depth of corruption and deceit within the highest ranks of our government. Note: The first one minute forty seven seconds of this program is in broadcast in Dutch, The remainder is in English. Best Keith - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Dietmar To: mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgBiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally I was always wandering how Bush could be elected in the first place. He seems to be even worse than his father was. Dietmar ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] biodiesel pH
Hi,Andrew, Seems acidic,just put some backing soda till it gets 7 +/-0,25 Luck! Rumen __ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally
Hello Tom So what am I missing? Maybe that you think it's a war, but the rest of the world sees it as an illegal invasion and criminal occupation. How could destroying an independent news agency in a friendly country and killing its journalists and staff possibly be considered an option??? Millions and millions of people worldwide have and are protesting very loudly against your war, they're giving you an even worse press than Al Jazeera, should bombing them too also be considered an option? Or should it avoided on the grounds that it would be a very bad decision? There's a lot of material in the Biofuel list archives, from very early on, that Americans who think it's a war object to probably just as much as they object to Al Jazeera (their objections are also in the archives) (and so is Al Jazeera), and it hasn't stopped yet. I hope you'll see the option of bombing us as a very bad decision too. How about this: The war dead. Who did you think of - 2,000 of our boys? Most other people think that means the 100,000-odd Iraqis killed, and your boys are the killers. There might be some sympathy for them, everyone knows they're just dupes, cheap cannon fodder, discard-after-use, but more likely it would be We told you so, you didn't want to listen. And meanwhile everybody forgets about Afghanistan. (Your government even forgot to include it in the budget after promising not to just walk away this time like they did last time.) It's not that it's exactly anything new, any of this, it's been going on for 60 years now and more, while Americans turned a blind eye to what Washington did abroad with their tax money. http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg45962.html Re: [Biofuel] Confessions of an Economic Hit Man http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/41438/ An Interview with William Blum http://members.aol.com/superogue/homepage.htm Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower, by William Blum http://members.aol.com/bblum6/American_holocaust.htm Killing Hope: U.S. Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II, by William Blum http://members.aol.com/bblum6/American_holocaust.htm The American Holocaust Time to stop. Best wishes Keith [Massive Snip] Exclusive: Bush Plot To Bomb His Arab Ally Madness of war memo By Kevin Maguire And Andy Lines 11/22/05 The Mirror -- -- PRESIDENT Bush planned to bomb Arab TV station al-Jazeera in friendly Qatar, a Top Secret No 10 memo reveals I'm angry that Bush is rolling back environmental policy in favor of an extract and consume policy. I'm angry that we have made a hash of the war in Iraq and alieniated the US from the world community in the process. I'm livid about our energy policy. But I don't understand what is wrong with considering all options in war. This one was (wisely) discarded. Maybe it should not have made it up the to the president (ie been shot down at a lower level). Had he gone through with it, then yes, very bad decision. But in the context of how can we win/be successful with Bush'es Iraq adventure, I am all for creative and comprehensive thinking. And I am all for eliminating bone headed ideas from that list. To a casual observer, it looks like that is exactly what happened. So what am I missing? thanks Tom Radiance Heating and Plumbing, Inc. (ROC 204149,204150) Tom Scheel 928-380-6294 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] My solution to the oil problem
The problem is that oil exhibits rather inelastic demand due to having a monopoly on transportation, and societal requirements for transportation use. If it followed conventional nice smooth demand vs price, artificially raising the price by taxing it would reduce demand because people would drive less, or switch to other fuels. But the poor people who rely on their cars to get to work cannot stop driving -- our society is set up to require them to drive in order to make money, and practically speaking, for most people there is no option to using gasoline in their car to get where they need to go. Our public transit system is so lousy, workplaces are not near residences, and there is so little biofuel available unless you go seek it out. Those same people that would be most hurt by higher fuel prices are the same ones who can't afford to buy a new hybrid car to get better gas mileage, even if auto makers did make one. And, they are also largely the ones who are dying over in Iraq right now, in order to keep fuel prices low. Rich people reap the benefits of this catch 22, without bearing any of the costs. On 11/27/05, Chris lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The simple solution is to tax it to the hilt like they do in Europe. But even the 5 dollars tax a gallon has not stopped the increase in car ownership, we do have a good average mileage from cars now at about 35+ miles to the gallon. The average car here does less than 8000 miles a year now as the mums school runs average less than 5 miles a day. Chris Wessex Ferret Club www.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Disposal of glycerine...burning
Suggest carpet tubes (about 60mm diameter fairly thick) from the centre of rolls of carpet. regards Doug On Tuesday 29 November 2005 12:55, Fred Finch wrote: Hi Mike, I make logs with sawdust apacked in a milk carton. If you have a fire that burns hot it will last between 1 to 3 hours. No ram necessary unless you like to put in a bunch of extra work for something that you are going to burn anyway. I was thinking of finding large cardboard tubes and using that to pack. Might be easier if I can find a source of dry ones. fred On 11/28/05, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone know whether I could mix left-over glycerine w/ dried leaves and woodchips and coffee grounds and compress it into a fireplace log with a hydralic ram and a form for fuel for my wood stove? I've burned coffee logs before and it worked fine. I could braze a stell form and use a bottle jack - kind of like a large rammed earth brick. -Mike Appal Energy wrote: Michael, Treat the cocktail with phosphoric acid to recover the FFAs. Then evaporate the methanol and recover it by condensing. That leaves the precipitate fertilizer and crudely refined glycerol to condtend with. The glycerol is a simple sugar and can be distributed with the graywater from the wash. Presumably you'll be treating the wash water to recover the soaps. Todd Swearingen mostly i mean what settles out of transesterification todd. On 11/27/05, *Appal Energy* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, Are you speaking of what settles out of a transesterification? Or are you speaking of the remaining glycerol after performing a free fatty acid recovery on the same soup? Todd Swearingen Hi folks I haven't started my production yet but I recently realized that I wasn't sure what I was going to do about disposing of the left over glycerine. I live on a small plot on the local reservoir and I can't just dump it or compost it .Any suggestions? what are you guy's doing with it? yes i could just put it in the trash but i have to pay for trash removal. Michael Luich ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ --- - ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ --- - No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/183 - Release Date: 11/25/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Disposal of glycerine...burning
one precaution about burning glycerin: make sure you have plenty of input air for combustion and a good flue for exhaust. Incomplete combustion can result in the formation of allyl alcohol, acrolein and acrylic acid. All of which are volatile and toxic. Doug Foskey wrote: Suggest carpet tubes (about 60mm diameter fairly thick) from the centre of rolls of carpet. regards Doug On Tuesday 29 November 2005 12:55, Fred Finch wrote: Hi Mike, I make logs with sawdust apacked in a milk carton. If you have a fire that burns hot it will last between 1 to 3 hours. No ram necessary unless you like to put in a bunch of extra work for something that you are going to burn anyway. I was thinking of finding large cardboard tubes and using that to pack. Might be easier if I can find a source of dry ones. fred On 11/28/05, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone know whether I could mix left-over glycerine w/ dried leaves and woodchips and coffee grounds and compress it into a fireplace log with a hydralic ram and a form for fuel for my wood stove? I've burned coffee logs before and it worked fine. I could braze a stell form and use a bottle jack - kind of like a large rammed earth brick. -Mike Appal Energy wrote: Michael, Treat the cocktail with phosphoric acid to recover the FFAs. Then evaporate the methanol and recover it by condensing. That leaves the precipitate fertilizer and crudely refined glycerol to condtend with. The glycerol is a simple sugar and can be distributed with the graywater from the wash. Presumably you'll be treating the wash water to recover the soaps. Todd Swearingen mostly i mean what settles out of transesterification todd. On 11/27/05, *Appal Energy* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, Are you speaking of what settles out of a transesterification? Or are you speaking of the remaining glycerol after performing a free fatty acid recovery on the same soup? Todd Swearingen Hi folks I haven't started my production yet but I recently realized that I wasn't sure what I was going to do about disposing of the left over glycerine. I live on a small plot on the local reservoir and I can't just dump it or compost it .Any suggestions? what are you guy's doing with it? yes i could just put it in the trash but i have to pay for trash removal. Michael Luich ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ --- - ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ --- - No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/183 - Release Date: 11/25/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list
Re: [Biofuel] Disposal of glycerine...burning
Just the glycerine. I am sure that wood chips would work
well. I have more sawdust than anything else. I like to
compost the leaves and burn the wood. Makes life easier.On 11/28/05, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Did you mix anything w/ the sawdust?We have gobs of dried leaves and wood chips.I thought of packing them
in paper bags mixed w/ glycerine.I have a decent VC stove - I can control the fire to get pretty much anykind of burn I need.Fred Finch wrote:Hi Mike, I make logs with sawdust apacked in a milk carton.If you havea
fire that burns hot it will last between 1 to 3 hours.No ram necessary unless you like to put in a bunch of extra work for something that you are going to burn anyway. I was thinking of finding large cardboard tubes and using that to
pack.Might be easier if I can find a source of dry ones. fred On 11/28/05, *Mike Weaver* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone know whether I could mix left-over glycerine w/ dried leaves and woodchips and coffee grounds and compress it into a fireplace log with a hydralic ram and a form for fuel for
my wood stove?I've burned coffee logs before and it worked fine. I could braze a stell form and use a bottle jack - kind of like a large rammed earth brick.
-Mike Appal Energy wrote: Michael, Treat the cocktail with phosphoric acid to recover the FFAs. Then evaporate the methanol and recover it by condensing. That leaves the
precipitate fertilizer and crudely refined glycerol to condtend with. The glycerol is a simple sugar and can be distributed with the graywater from the wash. Presumably you'll be treating the wash water to
recover the soaps. Todd Swearingenmostly i mean what settles out of transesterification todd.
On 11/27/05, *Appal Energy* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael,
Are you speaking of what settles out of a transesterification? Or are you speaking of the remaining glycerol after performing a free fatty
acid recovery on the same soup? Todd Swearingen Hi folks I haven't started my production yet but I recently
realized that I wasn't sure what I was going to do about disposing of the left over glycerine. I live on a small plot on the local reservoir and I can't just
dump it or compost it .Any suggestions? what are you guy's doing with it? yes i could just put it in the trash but i have to pay for trash
removal. Michael Luich___
Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives
(50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
___ Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/183 - Release Date: 11/25/2005
___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___
Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
___Biofuel mailing list
[Biofuel] Calif. Rep. resigns after bribery plea - Yahoo! News
every once in a while, albeit not often enough, justice prevails http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/crime_cunningham_dc;_ylt=Am398UJmVEgyA_VopNMV1dWs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ-- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Disposal of glycerine...burning
regular wood smoke contains way worse stuff than just burning Glycerine.. wood smoked may contain all of the following... Cyclic di and triterpenoids: dehydroabietic acid, isopimaric acid, lupenone, friedelin Chlorinated dioxins Carbon monoxide Methane Aldehydes: formaldehyde, acrolein, propionaldehyde, butryaldehyde, acetaldehyde, furfural Substituted furans Benzene Alkyl benzenes: toluene Acetic acid, Formic acid Nitrogen oxides Sulphur dioxide, Methyl chloride Napthalene Substituted napthalenes Oxygenated monoaromatics: guaiacol and derivatives phenol and derivatives, syringol and derivatives, catechol and derivatives Particulate organic carbon Oxygenated polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs): fluorene, phenamhrene, anthracene, methylanthracenes, fluoranthene , pyrene, benzo(a)anthracene, chrysene, benzofluoranthenes, benzo(e)pyrene, benzo(a)pyrene, perylene, ideno (1,2,3cd)pyrene,*benz(ghi)perylene*coronene, dibenzo(a,h)pyrene, retene, dibenz(a,h)anthracene Trace elements: including sodium, magnesium, aluminum, silicon A person should always have a good draft going for a good hot fire and a sealed flue here in the states , there are dozens of new companys springing up all over here in the northern half of the country (the cooler parts) building and selling outdoor boilers and outdoor forced air wood stoves.. almmost none of them are compleing with any EPA laws or guidelines... they just sit an smolder the wood all day... smoking like crazy all day long... they emit particulates at the rate of 20 to 60 grams per hour... where as all the stoves and fireplaces certified by the U.S. EPA run in the range of 2 to 7.5 grams per hour... Ray J one precaution about burning glycerin: make sure you have plenty of input air for combustion and a good flue for exhaust. Incomplete combustion can result in the formation of allyl alcohol, acrolein and acrylic acid. All of which are volatile and toxic. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] USA should be renamed USE
Chairman of the House Intelligence subcommittee on terrorism and human intelligence admits taking $2.4Million in bribes. http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/28/congressman.shouse.ap/index.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Disposal of glycerine...burning
And how does that work, because I would think the glycerin melts and turn into liquid ? - Original Message - From: Fred Finch To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 2:55 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Disposal of glycerine...burning Hi Mike, I make logs with sawdust apacked in a milk carton. If you have a fire that burns hot it will last between 1 to 3 hours. No ram necessary unless you like to put in a bunch of extra work for something that you are going to burn anyway. I was thinking of finding large cardboard tubes and using that to pack. Might be easier if I can find a source of dry ones.fred On 11/28/05, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone know whether I could mix left-over glycerine w/ dried leaves andwoodchips and coffee grounds and compress itinto a fireplace log with a hydralic ram and a form for fuel for my woodstove?I've burned coffee logs before and it worked fine. I could braze a stell form and use a bottle jack - kind of like a largerammed earth brick.-MikeAppal Energy wrote:Michael,Treat the cocktail with phosphoric acid to recover the FFAs. Then evaporate the methanol and recover it by condensing. That leaves theprecipitate fertilizer and crudely refined glycerol to condtend with.The glycerol is a simple sugar and can be distributed with the graywater from the wash. Presumably you'll be treating the wash water to recoverthe soaps.Todd Swearingenmostly i mean what settles out of transesterification todd. On 11/27/05, *Appal Energy* [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Michael,Are you speaking of what settles out of a transesterification? Or areyou speaking of the remaining glycerol after performing a free fattyacid recovery on the same soup? Todd SwearingenHi folks I haven't started my production yet but I recently realizedthat I wasn't sure what I was going to do about disposing of the left over glycerine.I live on a small plot on the local reservoir and I can't justdump itor compost it .Any suggestions? what are you guy's doing with it? yes i could just put it in the trash but i have to pay for trashremoval.Michael Luich___ Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/183 - Release Date: 11/25/2005___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
Michael, You seem the have the chemistry I lack, maybe you can tell me about how many moles of H to a liter of glycerin C 3 H 5 (OH)3 ? Greg H. - Original Message - From: michael skinner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 21:07 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power 1 liter of water = 1000g divide by molecular wt of water 18 gives 55.6 moles of water x 2 for 111 moles of H 1 liter of ethanol = 789.3 g divide by molecular wt of 46.07 = 17.1 mole of ethanol x 6 for 103 moles of H per liter. adding ethanol lowers # of H / liter. 1 liter of methanol = 791.4 g divide by molecular wt of 32.04 = 24.7 moles x4 for 98 moles of H so on a per volume basis you lower the H by adding alcohol. is you calculate the moles of H per gram is it 0.11/0.12/0.13 for water/methanol/ethanol respectively Original Message Follows From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 07:41:33 -0700 The water may be more plentiful, but, it still takes up volume and mass. 1 gal of water weighs about 8.35 lbs. and takes up 231 cubic inches So 90 gal weighs over 750 lbs and takes up over 12 cubic ft. That's a lot, of extra weight and volume being taken up. I can't help but wonder if the water is being doped with alcohol - it would increase the amount of H2 per unit of liquid, and IIRC, increases conductivity of the water, not to mention decreasing the temperature of freezing solid. Can anyone confirm the effects of electricity through alcohol? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 16:31 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power H. Well, considering that they go through 100 gallons of diesel fuel in an 8 hour day, and water (even clean water) is way more plentiful than diesel), that actually doesn't seem that bad if it allows saving maybe 5% of the diesel fuel. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] One ton of brush and untreated wood
Mathew, I understand you could make methanol or ethanol from your wood. I don't know the details, but I understand you would have to chip the wood. Then hydrolyze the wood with a dilute acid like; hydrochloric, sulfuric or sulphorous acid. Then ferment the sugars formed and distill the liquid to get high grade alcohol. I understand something called the Prodor process can get 250 liters per tonne in this way. I understand the remaining cellulose can be treated with concentrated acid to yield over 100% fermentable sugar compared to the cellulose. Then that could also be processed as above. [...observations of Wilkening and Ost, as well as those of Willstoetter and Zechmeister, have shown that pure cellulose can be saccharified by concentrated acids, with a sugar yield of 106 to 107% of the weight of the cellulose employed, which represents 95 to 96% of the theoretical yield. The alcohol yield of wood by hydrolysis is thus minimal compared with the quantity of cellulose that it contains.] I don't know how much cellulose is in dry wood. I would be interested to find out more about making alcohol from wood if there is information available. Leon L. Hulett [Original Message] From: Matthew J. Harmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: 11/28/05 8:24:40 AM Subject: [Biofuel] One ton of brush and untreated wood I have the opportunity to receive no less than one ton of brush and untreated wood on a regular basis. How could this be used in the production of bio fuels? I am in Minneapolis, and willing to work with others in the area. -Matthew Matthew J. Harmon ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Diesel pick-ups in Canada
Any suggestions on where I can find a small to mid sized dieselpick-up truck in Ontario, Canada? In the truck trader, I only found 2 or 3 older trucks with over 300 000km.Steve Reimer ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] USA should be renamed USE
I'm shocked. radema wrote: Chairman of the House Intelligence subcommittee on terrorism and human intelligence admits taking $2.4Million in bribes. http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/28/congressman.shouse.ap/index.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Disposal of glycerine...burning
Dunno, haven't tried it. I've been just dropping a big glop in and using it to start the fire. Bioclaire Nederland wrote: And how does that work, because I would think the glycerin melts and turn into liquid ? - Original Message - *From:* Fred Finch mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Monday, November 28, 2005 2:55 PM *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Disposal of glycerine...burning Hi Mike, I make logs with sawdust apacked in a milk carton. If you have a fire that burns hot it will last between 1 to 3 hours. No ram necessary unless you like to put in a bunch of extra work for something that you are going to burn anyway. I was thinking of finding large cardboard tubes and using that to pack. Might be easier if I can find a source of dry ones. fred On 11/28/05, *Mike Weaver* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone know whether I could mix left-over glycerine w/ dried leaves and woodchips and coffee grounds and compress it into a fireplace log with a hydralic ram and a form for fuel for my wood stove? I've burned coffee logs before and it worked fine. I could braze a stell form and use a bottle jack - kind of like a large rammed earth brick. -Mike Appal Energy wrote: Michael, Treat the cocktail with phosphoric acid to recover the FFAs. Then evaporate the methanol and recover it by condensing. That leaves the precipitate fertilizer and crudely refined glycerol to condtend with. The glycerol is a simple sugar and can be distributed with the graywater from the wash. Presumably you'll be treating the wash water to recover the soaps. Todd Swearingen mostly i mean what settles out of transesterification todd. On 11/27/05, *Appal Energy* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, Are you speaking of what settles out of a transesterification? Or are you speaking of the remaining glycerol after performing a free fatty acid recovery on the same soup? Todd Swearingen Hi folks I haven't started my production yet but I recently realized that I wasn't sure what I was going to do about disposing of the left over glycerine. I live on a small plot on the local reservoir and I can't just dump it or compost it .Any suggestions? what are you guy's doing with it? yes i could just put it in the trash but i have to pay for trash removal. Michael Luich ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/183 - Release Date: 11/25/2005
Re: [Biofuel] Diesel pick-ups in Canada
You might have an easier time in Canada than here in the US, but here the little 4 cylinder diesel pickups are few and far between. They're selling for upwards of $5,000 if in good shape with under 200,000km. I had to drive 1,200 miles to get mine, and then only because I had good connections. Check Ebay, and be willing to take a road trip to get it. You might see if you can import one from Japan, or get a diesel engine from japan to transplant into a North american market toyota. I know a few people who have done that. Zeke On 11/28/05, steve reimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any suggestions on where I can find a small to mid sized diesel pick-up truck in Ontario, Canada? In the truck trader, I only found 2 or 3 older trucks with over 300 000km. Steve Reimer ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] USA should be renamed USE
You're being sarcastic Mike, I hope? On 11/28/05, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm shocked. radema wrote: Chairman of the House Intelligence subcommittee on terrorism and human intelligence admits taking $2.4Million in bribes. http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/28/congressman.shouse.ap/index.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] USA should be renamed USE
Actually, almost nothing shocks me any more... Zeke Yewdall wrote: You're being sarcastic Mike, I hope? On 11/28/05, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm shocked. radema wrote: Chairman of the House Intelligence subcommittee on terrorism and human intelligence admits taking $2.4Million in bribes. http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/28/congressman.shouse.ap/index.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Diesel pick-ups in Canada
steve reimer wrote: Any suggestions on where I can find a small to mid sized diesel pick-up truck in Ontario, Canada? In the truck trader, I only found 2 or 3 older trucks with over 300 000km. Good luck, Steve! Nobody has made a small or mid sized diesel for sale in North America for a LONG time. If you want a newer one that hasn't been driven into the ground, you'll have to import one of those lovely diesel Rangers from Mexico. (I'd love to get one myself!) Otherwise, you're stuck with a 3 / 4 to full ton beast with a big block diesel, like the GM 6.2 / 6.5, Duramax, Dodge Cummins (those are a little over 5 liters in displacement, I believe), or the Ford Powerstroke. Expect to pay a LOT of money for a full sized diesel. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Disposal of glycerine...burning
Ray, whereas I agree that all of that which you listed can be present in wood smoke, there are three important considerations: vapor pressure, concentration and relative toxicity. I will stand by my precautions about burning glycerin because 1) the concentrations of the toxins I mentioned can be very high and 2) the relative toxicity is high. For example acrolein, which is in your list, has an LD50 of 7 mg/Kg (rabbit). the concentration from burning glycerin will be much, much higher than from burning wood. Ray J wrote: regular wood smoke contains way worse stuff than just burning Glycerine.. wood smoked may contain all of the following... Cyclic di and triterpenoids: dehydroabietic acid, isopimaric acid, lupenone, friedelin Chlorinated dioxins Carbon monoxide Methane Aldehydes: formaldehyde, acrolein, propionaldehyde, butryaldehyde, acetaldehyde, furfural Substituted furans Benzene Alkyl benzenes: toluene Acetic acid, Formic acid Nitrogen oxides Sulphur dioxide, Methyl chloride Napthalene Substituted napthalenes Oxygenated monoaromatics: guaiacol and derivatives phenol and derivatives, syringol and derivatives, catechol and derivatives Particulate organic carbon Oxygenated polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs): fluorene, phenamhrene, anthracene, methylanthracenes, fluoranthene , pyrene, benzo(a)anthracene, chrysene, benzofluoranthenes, benzo(e)pyrene, benzo(a)pyrene, perylene, ideno (1,2,3cd)pyrene,*benz(ghi)perylene*coronene, dibenzo(a,h)pyrene, retene, dibenz(a,h)anthracene Trace elements: including sodium, magnesium, aluminum, silicon A person should always have a good draft going for a good hot fire and a sealed flue here in the states , there are dozens of new companys springing up all over here in the northern half of the country (the cooler parts) building and selling outdoor boilers and outdoor forced air wood stoves.. almmost none of them are compleing with any EPA laws or guidelines... they just sit an smolder the wood all day... smoking like crazy all day long... they emit particulates at the rate of 20 to 60 grams per hour... where as all the stoves and fireplaces certified by the U.S. EPA run in the range of 2 to 7.5 grams per hour... Ray J one precaution about burning glycerin: make sure you have plenty of input air for combustion and a good flue for exhaust. Incomplete combustion can result in the formation of allyl alcohol, acrolein and acrylic acid. All of which are volatile and toxic. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] NaOH does not dissolve
I am working on making my first batch of Biodiesel and I can not seem to get the NaOH to dissolve in the methanol. I am using Ozark Trail brand stove fuel purchased from WalMart for methanol. I did read on the website that the NaOH can be difficult to dissolve but it has been 18 hours since I have mixed it and little or none appears to have dissolved. I did have the methanol stored in my garage in a sealed container for a month or maybe a little more and the temps were down to 6 degrees Farinenheit. Could these cold tempatures have messed it up? Also I am only trying to mix 5 liters of methanol with 108 grams of NaOH split evenly into two containers because I could not find one container large enough that was translucent. Any ideas or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Alan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] reprocessed biodiesel
Well that is a new idea. Next step is to figure out what it is. Andrew Leven ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] NaOH does not dissolve
are you sure that it is methanol? camp fuel in my parts- the Ozarks- is white gas , basically gasoline. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am working on making my first batch of Biodiesel and I can not seem to get the NaOH to dissolve in the methanol. I am using Ozark Trail brand stove fuel purchased from WalMart for methanol. I did read on the website that the NaOH can be difficult to dissolve but it has been 18 hours since I have mixed it and little or none appears to have dissolved. I did have the methanol stored in my garage in a sealed container for a month or maybe a little more and the temps were down to 6 degrees Farinenheit. Could these cold tempatures have messed it up? Also I am only trying to mix 5 liters of methanol with 108 grams of NaOH split evenly into two containers because I could not find one container large enough that was translucent. Any ideas or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Alan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.13.7/182 - Release Date: 11/24/2005 -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Disposal of glycerine...burning
How does it compare to Sterno? bob allen wrote: Ray, whereas I agree that all of that which you listed can be present in wood smoke, there are three important considerations: vapor pressure, concentration and relative toxicity. I will stand by my precautions about burning glycerin because 1) the concentrations of the toxins I mentioned can be very high and 2) the relative toxicity is high. For example acrolein, which is in your list, has an LD50 of 7 mg/Kg (rabbit). the concentration from burning glycerin will be much, much higher than from burning wood. Ray J wrote: regular wood smoke contains way worse stuff than just burning Glycerine.. wood smoked may contain all of the following... Cyclic di and triterpenoids: dehydroabietic acid, isopimaric acid, lupenone, friedelin Chlorinated dioxins Carbon monoxide Methane Aldehydes: formaldehyde, acrolein, propionaldehyde, butryaldehyde, acetaldehyde, furfural Substituted furans Benzene Alkyl benzenes: toluene Acetic acid, Formic acid Nitrogen oxides Sulphur dioxide, Methyl chloride Napthalene Substituted napthalenes Oxygenated monoaromatics: guaiacol and derivatives phenol and derivatives, syringol and derivatives, catechol and derivatives Particulate organic carbon Oxygenated polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs): fluorene, phenamhrene, anthracene, methylanthracenes, fluoranthene , pyrene, benzo(a)anthracene, chrysene, benzofluoranthenes, benzo(e)pyrene, benzo(a)pyrene, perylene, ideno (1,2,3cd)pyrene,*benz(ghi)perylene*coronene, dibenzo(a,h)pyrene, retene, dibenz(a,h)anthracene Trace elements: including sodium, magnesium, aluminum, silicon A person should always have a good draft going for a good hot fire and a sealed flue here in the states , there are dozens of new companys springing up all over here in the northern half of the country (the cooler parts) building and selling outdoor boilers and outdoor forced air wood stoves.. almmost none of them are compleing with any EPA laws or guidelines... they just sit an smolder the wood all day... smoking like crazy all day long... they emit particulates at the rate of 20 to 60 grams per hour... where as all the stoves and fireplaces certified by the U.S. EPA run in the range of 2 to 7.5 grams per hour... Ray J one precaution about burning glycerin: make sure you have plenty of input air for combustion and a good flue for exhaust. Incomplete combustion can result in the formation of allyl alcohol, acrolein and acrylic acid. All of which are volatile and toxic. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] scary stuff in food
Lists of chemicals present in wood smoke reminded me of the following list. It is a list of substances which have been shown to be mutagens and/or carcinogens present in the cited foods. Should one be concerned? well that depends on the potency and concentration of the listed ingredients. http://www.acsh.org/publications/pubID.103/pub_detail.asp be advised that the ACSH is a front for the chemical industry, but it doesn't change the facts. Cream of Mushroom Soup hydrazines Fresh Relish Tray Carrots aniline, caffeic acid Cherry Tomatoes benzaldehyde, caffeic acid, hydrogen peroxide, quercetin glycosides Celery caffeic acid, furan derivatives, psoralens Assorted Nuts Mixed Roasted Nuts aflatoxin, furfural Green Salad Tossed Lettuce and Arugula with Basil-Mustard Vinaigrette allyl isothiocyanate, caffeic acid, estragole, methyl eugenol Entrees Roast Turkey heterocyclic amines Bread Stuffing (with onions, celery, black pepper mushrooms) acrylamide, ethyl alcohol, benzo(a)pyrene, ethyl carbamate, furan derivatives, furfural, dihydrazines, d-limonene, psoralens, quercetin glycosides, safrole Cranberry Sauce furan derivatives or Prime Rib of Beef with Parsley Sauce benzene, heterocyclic amines, psoralens Vegetables Broccoli Spears allyl isothiocyanate Baked Potato ethyl alcohol, caffeic acid Sweet Potato ethyl alcohol, furfural Rolls with Butter acetaldehyde, benzene, ethyl alcohol, benzo(a)pyrene, ethyl carbamate, furan derivatives, furfural Desserts Pumpkin Pie benzo(a)pyrene, coumarin, methyl eugenol, safrole Apple Pie acetaldehyde, caffeic acid, coumarin, estragole, ethyl alcohol, methyl eugenol, quercetin glycosides, safrole Fruit Tray Fresh Apples, Grapes, Mangos, Pears, Pineapple acetaldehyde, benzaldehyde, caffeic acid, d-limonene, estragole, ethyl acrylate, quercetin glycosides Beverages Red Wine, White Wine ethyl alcohol, ethyl carbamate Coffee benzo(a)pyrene, benzaldehyde, benzene, benzofuran, caffeic acid, catechol, 1,2,5,6-dibenz(a)anthracene, ethyl benzene, furan, furfural, hydrogen peroxide, hydroquinone, d-limonene, 4-methylcatechol Tea benzo(a)pyrene, quercetin glycosides Jasmine Tea benzyl acetate NATURALLY OCCURRING MUTAGENS and CARCINOGENS FOUND in FOODS and BEVERAGES Acetaldehyde (apples, bread, coffee, tomatoes)—mutagen and potent rodent carcinogen Acrylamide (bread, rolls)—rodent and human neurotoxin; rodent carcinogen Aflatoxin (nuts)—mutagen and potent rodent carcinogen; also a human carcinogen Allyl isothiocyanate (arugula, broccoli, mustard)—mutagen and rodent carcinogen Aniline (carrots)—rodent carcinogen Benzaldehyde (apples, coffee, tomatoes)—rodent carcinogen Benzene (butter, coffee, roast beef)—rodent carcinogen Benzo(a)pyrene (bread, coffee, pumpkin pie, rolls, tea)—mutagen and rodent carcinogen Benzofuran (coffee)—rodent carcinogen Benzyl acetate (jasmine tea)—rodent carcinogen Caffeic acid (apples, carrots, celery, cherry tomatoes, cof-fee, grapes, lettuce, mangos, pears, potatoes)—rodent carcinogen Catechol (coffee)—rodent carcinogen Coumarin (cinnamon in pies)—rodent carcinogen 1,2,5,6-dibenz(a)anthracene (coffee)—rodent carcinogen Estragole (apples, basil)—rodent carcinogen Ethyl alcohol (bread, red wine, rolls)—rodent and human carcinogen Ethyl acrylate (pineapple)—rodent carcinogen Ethyl benzene (coffee)—rodent carcinogen Ethyl carbamate (bread, rolls, red wine)—mutagen and rodent carcinogen Furan and furan derivatives (bread, onions, celery, mushrooms, sweet potatoes, rolls, cranberry sauce, coffee)—many are mutagens Furfural (bread, coffee, nuts, rolls, sweet potatoes)—furan derivative and rodent carcinogen Heterocyclic amines (roast beef, turkey)—mutagens and rodent carcinogens Hydrazines (mushrooms)—mutagens and rodent carcinogens Hydrogen peroxide (coffee, tomatoes)—mutagen and rodent carcinogen Hydroquinone (coffee)—rodent carcinogen d-limonene (black pepper, mangos)—rodent carcinogen 4-methylcatechol (coffee)—rodent carcinogen Methyl eugenol (basil, cinnamon and nutmeg in apple and pumpkin pies)—rodent carcinogen Psoralens (celery, parsley)—mutagens; rodent and human carcinogens Quercetin glycosides (apples, onions, tea, tomatoes)—mutagens and rodent carcinogens Safrole (nutmeg in apple and pumpkin pies, black pepper)—rodent carcinogen 'Natural' Foods are not Carcinogen-Free -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Disposal of glycerine...burning
Sterno is basically ethanol, burns much cleaner than glycerin. Mike Weaver wrote: How does it compare to Sterno? bob allen wrote: Ray, whereas I agree that all of that which you listed can be present in wood smoke, there are three important considerations: vapor pressure, concentration and relative toxicity. I will stand by my precautions about burning glycerin because 1) the concentrations of the toxins I mentioned can be very high and 2) the relative toxicity is high. For example acrolein, which is in your list, has an LD50 of 7 mg/Kg (rabbit). the concentration from burning glycerin will be much, much higher than from burning wood. Ray J wrote: regular wood smoke contains way worse stuff than just burning Glycerine.. wood smoked may contain all of the following... Cyclic di and triterpenoids: dehydroabietic acid, isopimaric acid, lupenone, friedelin Chlorinated dioxins Carbon monoxide Methane Aldehydes: formaldehyde, acrolein, propionaldehyde, butryaldehyde, acetaldehyde, furfural Substituted furans Benzene Alkyl benzenes: toluene Acetic acid, Formic acid Nitrogen oxides Sulphur dioxide, Methyl chloride Napthalene Substituted napthalenes Oxygenated monoaromatics: guaiacol and derivatives phenol and derivatives, syringol and derivatives, catechol and derivatives Particulate organic carbon Oxygenated polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs): fluorene, phenamhrene, anthracene, methylanthracenes, fluoranthene , pyrene, benzo(a)anthracene, chrysene, benzofluoranthenes, benzo(e)pyrene, benzo(a)pyrene, perylene, ideno (1,2,3cd)pyrene,*benz(ghi)perylene*coronene, dibenzo(a,h)pyrene, retene, dibenz(a,h)anthracene Trace elements: including sodium, magnesium, aluminum, silicon A person should always have a good draft going for a good hot fire and a sealed flue here in the states , there are dozens of new companys springing up all over here in the northern half of the country (the cooler parts) building and selling outdoor boilers and outdoor forced air wood stoves.. almmost none of them are compleing with any EPA laws or guidelines... they just sit an smolder the wood all day... smoking like crazy all day long... they emit particulates at the rate of 20 to 60 grams per hour... where as all the stoves and fireplaces certified by the U.S. EPA run in the range of 2 to 7.5 grams per hour... Ray J one precaution about burning glycerin: make sure you have plenty of input air for combustion and a good flue for exhaust. Incomplete combustion can result in the formation of allyl alcohol, acrolein and acrylic acid. All of which are volatile and toxic. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] ethanol industry popping
A kernel of energy innovation has ethanol industry popping Greg Gordon, Star Tribune November 29, 2005 http://www.startribune.com/stories/535/5751740.html WASHINGTON - A cooperative in Little Falls, Minn., is spending $8 million so it can make ethanol by burning scrap wood instead of more expensive natural gas. Agribusiness giant Archer Daniels Midland Co. is building a plant that will make five times as much of the gasoline additive as a typical operation. And in Canada and Louisiana, corn stalks, trees and leaves are being tested to see whether ethanol might someday come from a variety of sources instead of the corn that is now its mainstay. After years of struggle in which some wondered whether the industry that converts corn kernels to auto fuel would ever be viable, it appears that ethanol is coming of age. Amid worries about a global oil crunch, innovation and investment are transforming the clean-burning, oxygenated fuel into the leading near-term alternative to petroleum to power the nation's 225 million cars and trucks. The industry is growing out of its gourd, said Ralph Groschen, a marketing specialist for the Minnesota Department of Agriculture. Ten years ago, he said, people were saying, 'What if we get these plants built and the ethanol market goes away?' Now they're saying, 'What if we get these plants built, and the ethanol market doesn't grow as fast as it's supposed to?' Investors, policymakers and researchers are paying attention. Aided by soaring oil prices, ethanol plants that have relied on a 51-cent per gallon excise tax credit to stay afloat are becoming competitive and profitable. And ethanol producers are installing new technologies that burn less natural gas and cut emissions of global warming pollutants -- steps that could muffle ethanol's critics. A mandate in the energy bill that President Bush signed last summer all but guarantees the industry will double its annual capacity over the next five to seven years to more than 7.5 billion gallons. This is after the industry doubled in the past four years, said Bob Dinneen, president of the Renewable Fuels Association, which represents some 80 ethanol-producing firms and cooperatives. In a growth spurt The plants are spreading beyond the Midwest Corn Belt to California, Texas and upstate New York, and more companies are building them, joining tens of thousands of farmers who own shares in ethanol co-ops. Even Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates' investment firm has poured $84 million into Pacific Ethanol Inc., which is planning to build five West Coast plants. Agribusinesses Cargill Inc. and ADM are building super-sized plants that dwarf those common in Minnesota, which make 40 million gallons a year. Taking advantage of its well-positioned grain storage silos and transportation network, ADM owns seven ethanol plants that combined produce 1.1 billion gallons annually, more than a quarter of the industry's 4 billion-gallon output, and the firm will increase that by 500 million gallons with two more plants, spokeswoman Karla Miller said. Brian Silvey, Cargill's vice president and manager for bio-fuels, said his firm is building a 110-million-gallon plant in Blair, Neb. Cargill also is investing in three other 100-million gallon plants in Indiana, Nebraska and Ohio. Nationwide, 93 ethanol plants are making ethanol and another 23 are under construction. In Minnesota, the third-leading ethanol-producing state, 15 operating plants can make up to 523.6 million gallons of ethanol annually and two more are on the way. One reason for the industry's surge is that leading crusaders for American energy independence, such as former CIA director James Woolsey and former national security adviser Robert McFarlane, have embraced it. They envision a gas-and-electric hybrid car with a tank full of E-85 (a gasoline blend that is 85 percent ethanol) that could travel 500 miles for every gallon of petroleum used. Another reason is the decline of the methanol-based fuel additive MTBE, which is being banned by 25 states because it has polluted drinking water supplies. Other alternative fuels are advancing. Rural plants are making biodiesel from soybean oil and animal fats, for example, and the government is trying to develop exhaust-free hydrogen fuel cells. But new legislative measures proposed in Congress in recent weeks aim to make ethanol an integral part of the U.S. energy grid. They would prod automakers to make only flexible fuel vehicles by 2016, offer tax credits for the installation of E-85 pumps and require that every gallon of gas sold contains 10 percent ethanol by 2010. Tall hurdles remain Ethanol still must leap tall hurdles to reach the mainstream. Today, barely 2 percent of the U.S. fleet -- 5 million vehicles -- are configured to operate with more than 10 percent ethanol in their tanks, and ethanol accounts for less than 3 percent of
Re: [Biofuel] NaOH does not dissolve
I am sure now that the camp stove fuel must not be methanol . It has been over 24 hours and the lye has not dissolved at all. I thought I had read that the stove fuel would work but I guess I was wrong. On the back of the can it says it contains a refined petroluem naptha. Now I am right or wrong wood naptha is methanol? But again now on looking closer I did not do my homework right because the can says it is petroleum naptha not wood. Oh by the way I am from Pa.. Thank you, Alan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Diesel pick-ups in Canada
At www.sor.com ( Specter Off Road ), you can find about any engine that went into a Landcruiser, including diesels. 4,5, and 6 cyl diesel engines http://www.sor.com/sor/cat035b.tam?xax=22710 Greg H. - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 16:46 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Diesel pick-ups in Canada You might have an easier time in Canada than here in the US, but here the little 4 cylinder diesel pickups are few and far between. They're selling for upwards of $5,000 if in good shape with under 200,000km. I had to drive 1,200 miles to get mine, and then only because I had good connections. Check Ebay, and be willing to take a road trip to get it. You might see if you can import one from Japan, or get a diesel engine from japan to transplant into a North american market toyota. I know a few people who have done that. Zeke On 11/28/05, steve reimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any suggestions on where I can find a small to mid sized diesel pick-up truck in Ontario, Canada? In the truck trader, I only found 2 or 3 older trucks with over 300 000km. Steve Reimer ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
