Hello Bill. thanks for the post and the thoughts. Apparently, I missed reading the last sentence or two below, just prior to Dean's quote of Wesley.
Dean, I believe there is a Father, a Son and a Holy Spirit. The Spirit expresses the will of the Father and the Son. You do not know anything
G, let me know when you get my check for the bat. That's right, Dean !! I'm buying a bat !!
jd
-- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
..what if, perhaps. elemental to BTs commentary, there genuinely appears to bea qualitatively greater revelation thanyour
In EACH AND EVERY ASSEMBLAGE there are some who
practice idolatry.(Divine worship given to ANYONE OR ANYTHING OTHER THAN GOD).
Many who are raised up by the Lord become the objects of idolatry.
One ought also give some attention to ICONOGRAPHY.
See 'The Dwelling of the Light' Praying with
See 'He Came Down From Heaven' The Preexistence of
Christ and the Christian Faith' by Douglas McCready, IVP 2005
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 06, 2006 03:38
Subject: Re: Re:
DH:I'm assuming that you, like myself, have never
gotten to know DM personally. Therefore, we've only got TT when it comes to
'reading' him(pun intended) I've found him amorphous in nature, even
chameleon like.I tend to respond to 'the DM' I read during his infrequent visits
to TT.
-
Again, see 'He came down from Heaven' The Preexistence of
Christ and the Christian Faith' Douglas McCready, IVP, 2005
- Original Message -
From:
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 05, 2006 23:32
Subject: Re: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ as
the
JD what is wrong with just allowing the scripture to
say what it says rather than striving to make it conform to some
doctrine built by men?
On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:48:56 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
1. Matt 1:23 gives us the word "Immanuel" as a name for
Jesus.Most significantly, the
On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 08:38:57 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hello Bill. thanks for the post and the thoughts.
Apparently, I missed reading the last sentence or two below, just
prior to Dean's quote of Wesley.
Dean, I believe there is a Father, a Son and a Holy
Spirit. The
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Do Catholics think of these
statues as "idols.?" Are they not expressions of their faith in
God and His Christ? None of the idols of the Message were
attached to the Living God. The compaison, Dean, that you make
is not a biblical one.jd
''Deceived people don't know they are deceived' Is
it in any way possible that YOU ARE DECEIVED, Judy? Deception carries with it a
particular meaning. Misapprehension carries with it a different meaning.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To:
NOTHING, Judy, is so unless it stands in the light
of ALL scripture. You do understand, do you not, that that includes what YOU
SAY, do you not?
'Nonsense' you say? John/Bill hold more
understanding of the scriptures in their pinky finger that you ever will should
you live for another
Lance, I think you must be an expert on misapprehension
in others because this is what you speak about more
than anything else. If you believe that I an
wresting the scriptures to my own destruction then you have a God
given
obligation to straighten me out - BY THE
SCRIPTURES.
On Fri, 6
Why should I pay any more mind to you than I do to SNL
Lance? You give your opinion which is all you seem
to have to hang on to. If you can show me
evidence by God's Word that what I presently believe is wrong then
I
will give serious consideration to your counter
points. So far all you
This is fine with me Lance. I did not receive
what you call my "doctrinal apprehension" that IYO is unsound
from men and so I don't expect to receive accolades
from men. However, I would like those who criticize and
accuse to come up with something other than their own
or someone
You do not read one's MEANING well at all, Judy. I
don't see you as being on a path to destruction. I see you as a well
meaning, on occasion, (mis)interpreter of Scripture.YOU KNOW I'm not
alone on this (on TT) Do I believe you to be teachable on this? I do not!
Why? I've no idea!As far as
IMO, it matters not a whit what they 'come up
with', you will remain comfortably (intractably?) where you are right now! As on
onlooker for a rather lengthy period of time, I've seen no evidence to the
contrary. Why? I've no idea!
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
I don't believe I've ever seen you respond, since
my appearance on TT, to ANYONE'S BIBLICAL EVIDENCE that ran counter to your own.
Why? I've no idea! IMO, SOME, of that which ran counter to your understanding
was SOUND while your understanding was UNSOUND. I've seen David exhibit
remarkable
I'll tell you then Lance since you don't appear to be
so adept at catching on to "meaning" either. I have to hear
the
voice of Jesus before I will receive anything doctrinal
from others. IOW, it must line up with "scripture" and as
I've
been saying and saying, and saying, especially this
Well then Lance, that is 'er - your
opinion.
Why don't you just give it a try and see for once
whether or not your opinion is correct?
On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 07:57:19 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
IMO, it matters not a whit what they 'come up
with', you will remain
You are not producing anything here Lance - just
alluding to things I can't recall. You need to produce the "so
called"
evidence along with my "unsound" understanding.
The only issue I remember DavidM "patiently" trying to walk me
through
is something that is more in his field of biology ie
Like I've said this morning and, on many other
occasions, others more competent than I have 'walked away' in frustration from
'dialogues of the deaf'.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
You keep listening we'll keep listening
who knows?...In your own fashion you are adroit in speaking/writing HOWEVER in
the 'listening' department it'd appear that 'adroit' is not the
word.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
DEAF goes both ways Lance and so does
frustration. Some refusing to dialogue when it is apparent there
is
no agreement on this side with their idols and make no
mistake, any doctrine not leading one toward godliness
and holiness is an idol.
On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 08:36:09 -0500 "Lance Muir"
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/5/2006 9:52:26 PM
Subject: Re: FW: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
We could begin perhaps by reverting to "plain speech"
Lance. This would help a whole lot because IMO some
here employ the Limerick syndrome (I'veheard the
same complaints) which Malachy McCourt described as follows:
"There was always THE STORY in any gathering in
Limerick. Be it boys,
As to your last point, I totally and wholeheartedly
concur. Do remember, won't you, that it is 'Emmanuel GOD with us'?.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 06, 2006 08:44
We ought ALL to take care regarding the mishandling
of God's words, Judy.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 06, 2006 08:51
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Idoloty
We could
Pray TO? Pray THROUGH? IMO, there is a
distinction.
- Original Message -
From:
Dean
Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 06, 2006 08:48
Subject: Re: FW: Re: [TruthTalk]
Cross
- Original Message -
From:
cd: I believe the difficulties arise from you misconception that I am disagree with John's statements-I am not. I am/was attempting to add to what John had written-Giving him my point of view so to speak-for what that is worth :-)
- Original Message -
From: Taylor
To:
We are talking past each other Lance. I am not speaking
of a godliness or holiness obtained by osmosis
but one that is inward. A pure heart and
unfeigned love.
On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 08:56:10 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
As to your last point, I totally and
wholeheartedly
Pray through whom? There is only ONE mediator
between God and man. Yet the rcc sanctions the rosary
where ppl chant over and over and over "Holy Mary
mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death"
So what is THAT all about?
On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 08:59:39 -0500 "Lance Muir"
This is but SPECULATION on my part but, 'the great cloud
of witnesses' MAY be doing something other than watching.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 06, 2006 09:09
Subject:
FWIW, I do believe that this describes
YOU.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 06, 2006 09:05
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ as the
incarnate God
We are talking past
- Original Message -
From: Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/6/2006 8:59:34 AM
Subject: Re: FW: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
Pray TO? Pray THROUGH? IMO, there is a distinction.
cd: No, they are the same as the only way to the father is through Jesus Christ-He is the
Jesus addresses this in John 14:17 where he talks to
the disciples about "The Spirit of Truth who is WITH
you but will be IN you" and - as for the
Emmanuele/Incarnation issue. Same thing. In John 14:10
where
Jesus plainly says that it is the Father who dwells IN
him who does the works" So
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/6/2006 3:44:03 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Mormonism Freemasonry
G, let me know when you get my check for the bat. That's right, Dean !! I'm buying a bat !!
jd
cd: What type of bat
Ever learning and
never...etc.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 06, 2006 09:27
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ as the
incarnate God
Jesus addresses this in John 14:17 where he talks to
the
I did in another post. No point in repeating.
- Original Message -
From:
Dean
Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 06, 2006 09:24
Subject: Re: FW: Re: [TruthTalk]
Cross
- Original Message -
From:
Lance
DAVEH: Most of my interactions with him have been via TT since it's
birth, though I've recently had the opportunity to chat with DavidM on
the phone for about an hour recently, which certainly has added
immeasurably to my understanding of him, in a personal sense. I
don't see him in the same
As to the conclusion of your post, Judy..NO!
Seriously, Judy, I can't see any point in repeating conversations (?). Persons
have engaged you on these scriptures and this understanding of Jesus
multitudinous times! Brighten the corner where you are, Judy.
- Original Message -
I recommend idealism from ages 13-25. Thereafter,
should the idealism remain, you're out of touch with reality, DH, so NO I do not
care to walk that path with you.
- Original Message -
From:
Dave Hansen
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 06, 2006 10:31
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/6/2006 3:38:57 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ as the incarnate God
Hello Bill. thanks for the post and the thoughts. Apparently, I missed reading the last sentence or two
There have been no conversations where you have ever
supplied any lucid reasons as to why scripture does not
say what it quite obviously says... and I am speaking
with you - not "persons" So tell me Lance, what
is wrong
with the scriptural understanding of Jesus? His
own words describing
Judy asks 'what is wrong with the scriptural
understanding of Jesus', Lance? Lance answers 'Nothing whatsoever, Judy!' AND,
Judy, when IMO the two (yours/His) are identical, I've no problem whatsoever in
offering a resounding, AMEN! HOWEVER..
You're not into self flaggelation, are
- Original Message -
From: Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/6/2006 1:43:19 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ as the incarnate God
Judy asks 'what is wrong with the scriptural understanding of Jesus', Lance? Lance answers 'Nothing whatsoever, Judy!' AND, Judy,
IMO Dean, it is so much easier to speak with either a
cultist or a non-believer than with Judy I never pass up an opportunity with
either of these. I also speak, almost daily in our bookstore, with those
espousing a variety of views on a number issues. I never sidestep any of
them.I've
I mean no offence to either JT or DM in my
'non-engagement' post. IMHO,neither has been seen to have altered their
understanding on any issue of substance since I've been on TT. Debbie, Caroline,
Bill and, John have made concerted efforts to no
effect.
- Original Message -
From: Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/6/2006 3:18:54 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ as the incarnate God
IMO Dean, it is so much easier to speak with either a cultist or a non-believer than with Judy I never pass up an opportunity
- Original Message -
From: Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/6/2006 3:41:00 PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Upon further reflection...
I mean no offence to either JT or DM in my 'non-engagement' post. IMHO,neither has been seen to have altered their understanding
Thanks, Dean, for your response(s).
Lance
- Original Message -
From:
Dean
Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 06, 2006 17:33
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Upon further
reflection...
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
... cult-apostles like DavidM...
Gary, your calling DM a cult-apostle is a direct attack on him. He does
not claim to be an apostle, and adding cult to that erroneous label makes
it an ad-hominem reference. I encourage you to retract that ad-hominem
reference and
Oh, so other people's opinions don't bother you either
and you don't mind the fact that this list which is
titled Truth Talk has turned into an "opinion
list"? Oh well!! Have it your way.
On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 13:42:51 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Judy asks 'what is wrong
Lord forbid! The blind leading the blind.
Opinion then, is your forte because everyone has one even cultists and
non-believers and
a person's opinion would never be a Rock of
offense. One would never be persecuted over that now would they? You
have not
seen me budge because I have as yet,
Could be for the same reasons Lance,
Has it ever occured to youand your little coterie
may not haveALL Truth cornered just yet?
On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 15:41:05 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I mean no offence to either JT or DM in my
'non-engagement' post. IMHO,neither has
It has and we don't. I've never thought so.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 06, 2006 16:25
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Upon further
reflection...
Could be for the
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
JD what is wrong with just allowing the scripture to say what it says rather than striving to make it conform to some
doctrine built by men? Yours is the man-made doctrine, Judy. (Now that we have done the "yes
cd: You are welcome Lance.
- Original Message -
From: Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/6/2006 6:00:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Upon further reflection...
Thanks, Dean, for your response(s).
Lance
- Original Message -
From: Dean Moore
To:
.
Read it again and focus on Vs.19; Christ is reconciling all things to the Father - this is not about HIMSELF.
Actually, Judy, the word "Father does not appear in the text. The KJ people added the word to the text. I have the gk text used by the KJ people (Berry's interlinear) and
But as Adam Clark shows in the below "the Fullness"mentioned are Godly attributes as Christ is one with God.
Hi, Dean. You seem to beadding a correction of sorts to what I said. I certainly believe Christ to be the Son of God and , thus, God. I hope you do not misunderstand my point. In the end,
Cool.
- Original Message -
From:
Dean
Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 7:01
AM
Subject: Re: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ as
the incarnate God
cd: I believe the difficulties arise from you misconception that I am
Well, I am kind of liking the new Dean.
Anyway -- maybe the difference is found in our function within the Body or just our personality make-up. I could have been quite the intellectual, I think, except that I was put into an Okies body !! I am as hick a looking guy as you will find. I write
Awesome !!
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cd: Bill I will attempt to find areas of disagreement with John's posts as this is what I believe bothyou and John are both looking for in order to better distinguish the God head relationship
On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 23:28:58 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
JD what is wrong with just allowing the scripture to
say what it says rather than striving to make it conform to some doctrine built by men?
Yours is the man-made doctrine, Judy.
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 23:28:58 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
JD what is wrong with just allowing the scripture to say what it says rather than striving to make it conform
kidding, of course. Actually, I am going to use the bat at the local batting cages. The closest thing to physical excercise that I really want to get, in my old age.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
How do you define Idolatry John? If you are the one whom decides whatIdol is or is not-what do you do with God's definition of what an idol is?
An idol is both an object and a concept. It is of man's own creation, on both counts. And it takes one away from the true and Living God. All three
no one here claims
to be a swine--does he feel like onea them, too? doubtful, but, ifso, you
can tell himwe're feelg his pain chalk it up to limbaugh love,
Bro!
On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 13:12:09 -0800 "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:||
Hedoesnot claim to be an apostle..an
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 08:38:57 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hello Bill. thanks for the post and the thoughts. Apparently, I missed reading the last sentence or two below, just prior to Dean's quote of
. . .my dear -- I think I am
older than you.
I have no way of knowing, for sure, but my hunch is that you are
not. I am pretty sure that John is sixty. Is that right, John? How old are you,
Judy?
Bill
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:
cd: On this I strongly agree as to be anything else-such as a
prophet-is to make Christ a liar-for he said "I am" and the Jews clearly
understood this to mean equal with God as they sought to killhim.
King Nebuchadnezzar make this same claim and was struck withinsanity
for 7 yrs. I hope I
60
-- Original message -- From: "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
. . .my dear -- I think I am older than you.
I have no way of knowing, for sure, but my hunch is that you are not. I am pretty sure that John is sixty. Is that right, John? How old are you, Judy?
Bill
-
Well, your clock is gonna stopAt Saint
Peter's gate.Ya gonna ask him what time it is,He's gonna say, "It's too
late."Hey, hey!_I'd sure hate to be youOn that dreadful
day._
You're gonna start to sweatAnd you ain't gonna
stop.You're gonna have a nightmareAnd never wake up.Hey, hey,
hey!I'd
couple of thoughts, Dean. I do not think we disagree at all on point #4. The union that is the being we know as Jesus (Son of God, Son of Man) is not possible without the function of humility (Philip 2) and that is what you are talking bout at #4. You make a timely addition to what I said. I
interestg
On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 07:31:27 -0800 Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
[i] had the opportunity to chat with DavidM on the phone for about an
hour recently, which certainly has added immeasurably to my understanding of
him, in a personal sense. I don't see him in the same
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