I agree that the patent is written to confuse.
By carefully selecting a few sentences and paragraphs from the patent I
think it is possible to find a rather neat semi-continuous flow version
of an intersting development of the Graneau water arc system, which is
consistent with the rather
Erik, Yes, you got it about patent strategy. There is no malice in this. If a
guy claims a blue box in a patent and another claims a red box with the dame
function, he should not get a patent if the color is not of the essence. The
BLP paper “Solid fuels that make HOH catalyst” clarifies the
History of Water Arc Explosions :
The unusual strength of explosions caused by a pulsed current flowing
through water plasma was first noticed in 1907 by Trowbridge. in his early
high voltage laboratory at Harvard University. When he passed an arc
through a spray of water, the resulting
More...
from a post here on vortex back on 12/31/12
to vortex-l
I looked at the Papp cannon video again. At 3:00 in, Papp is filling the
cannon from one of the flasks. It has a sizable amount of clear liquid at
the bottom of that flask.
Speaking of intentional deception in a patent application ... (which BTW
voids that patent application if it can be proved - and is not tolerated by
USPTO) there is the issue of MHD.
Any patent or claim that proposes to convert heat into electricity based on
MHD is probably nothing but hot air,
Very interesting. Can such a device convert terahertz radiation into DC power?
-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wed, Jan 22, 2014 10:31 am
Subject: [Vo]:MHD- from Russia with Love...
Speaking of intentional deception in a
I have 2 years statistics in FL showing accelerated ionization and decay
clustered around microwave radar towers, including algae blooms, fish
kills,increased sinkholes and waterspouts. In Oklahoma and North Texas my 3
year statistics are showing a correlation between microwave radar tower
From: fznidar...@aol.com
Very interesting. Can such a device convert terahertz
radiation into DC power?
No.
An oversimplification of Cuccia coupling (this is from memory so it may not
be accurate) is this: microwaves couple to electrons at very
I am pleased by the stir created by my previous post on this thread. I also
now have a better understanding of the BLP posts. Readers have been fixated
on the press release and the patent application and overlooked the paper
Solid Fuels that Form HOH Catalyst which contains the key to
I have reworded this post below to make it clearer, and
change the dyslexic wording (power - energy) and account for the magnetic
field, all based on original guesstimates of the Russians.
From: fznidar...@aol.com
20 January 2014 Last updated at 09:05 ET
Cosmic 'web' seen for first time
By Simon RedfernReporter, BBC News
The hidden tendrils of dark matter that underlie the visible Universe
may have been traced out for the first time.
Cosmology theory predicts that galaxies are embedded in a cosmic web
Quote:
If you have an intense source of UV in a plasma (as Mills
apparently does) then it is possible to use a photocell for conversion, but
the plasma will also have a lot of +ions which destroy the photocell. A
protective window is impossible since UV is absorbed by the window.
Thought
http://www.technologyreview.com/news/507821/nanoparticles-make-steam-without-bringing-water-to-a-boil/
Nanoparticles can concentrate the energy of photons on a localized
nanometric scale. Here is a application of this ability.
Steam is a key ingredient in a wide range of industrial and
One of the goals of the dense plasma focus(DPF) reactor design is to
convert the ions produced by the plasmoid directly into electric power
using a MDH. In that system energy comes from two sources, ions and x-rays.
On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Marcus Haber tr...@gmx.de wrote:
Quote:
If
If I remember - UV grade fused silica doesn’t filter very much UVA or UVB –
that much is true, but can filter maybe 75% of EUV at 55 eV. That would be too
much.
It would be worth looking at a spec sheet. The gain in Mills reaction is
claimed to be in the range called EUV (extreme UV).
The total energy contained by the steam must be no greater than the input light
energy. This is not magic, just a way to concentrate the incoming light. I am
assuming that LENR of some sort is not contributing.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com
To:
The cavitation experiments by LeClair show that water subjected to plasma
cooling will produce nanoparticles of solid water formed from cooling water
plasma.
These small crystalline particles are the active agent in many water based
nanoplasmonic LENR reactions including cavitation.
I believe
In order to understand if over unity power production is occurring, the
energy content of the incoming solar photons shall be determined and
compared to the output energy content of the steam produced.
Experimenters must use this procedure or its like to determine the COP of
solar cells.
On
http://www.uh.edu/news-events/stories/2013/december/1216baohydrogen
As it happens in LENR. nanoparticles can concentrate the energy of photons
on a localized nanometric scale through super-lensing. Here is yet
another application of this ability.
Researchers from the University of Houston have
Nanoparticle formation, superatoms, and Rydberg matter are an important
subfield in chemistry. Mills, being a master chemist, should have been
familiar with this science and should not have invented his own imaginary
field of chemistry. Nanoparticles and their properties and application can
I have just run across a new term that describes the a particular Bose
-Einstein condensation characterization of the Ni/H reactor ---
“grand-canonical ensemble”—
See the details here:
http://physics.aps.org/articles/v7/7
Viewpoint: Statistical flickers in a Bose-Einstein Condensate of Photons
Normally, I assume that all of the incoming energy, in this case light photons,
that is not reflected away ends up heating the water. Anything that
concentrates the energy into a small region, such as appears to be happening
with this device, will boil a tiny quantity of water. This is not
One characterization of the process that you have not considered is
localization. The water boils around the nanoparticle but the average
temperature of the waterdoes not rise.
Another enhancement of the effect is the development of Bose-Einstein
condensation. When all the localize nanoparticle
Axil, I realize that there may be some interesting behavior associated with
this material. The exact mechanism responsible for the generation of water
vapor may be difficult to discern.
When ice sublimes, or water evaporates, a similar process may be taking place.
Heat is extracted from the
Jones Beene,
What Mills talks about is the ejection of very high speed ions from
which it should be possible to generate electricity. Has he stated
that a large proportion of the energy is UV?
In the Papp engine, that one of the mysteries of that process is that it
produces little heat. The energy density in the Mills cell indicates the
production of little heat. I think this lack of heat condition is all
connected under the nano-particle causation principle.
On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at
The other day I broke the stem on the garden hose faucet outside my house.
It happens my wife is in Guatemala, so like any husband I thought to
myself, I better fix this before she gets home and finds out. It would be
difficult to replace the whole faucet but I thought perhaps I can just
replace
A possible connection between the Mills cell and sonoluminescence is the
production of UV. Could a common causation principle be afoot.
On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 4:25 PM, a.ashfield a.ashfi...@verizon.net wrote:
Jones Beene,
What Mills talks about is the ejection of very high speed ions from
Yes. The gain in the Mills reaction derives from EUV emission initially.
Plasma ions can absorb EUV - and that is how they are heated and how they
are maintained as a plasma. (EUV can include what is sometimes called soft
x-rays, as they are borderline).
-Original Message-
From:
Nano-clusters can also absorb EUV and then explode in catastrophic
structural failure producing a plasma shock wave.
On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
Yes. The gain in the Mills reaction derives from EUV emission initially.
Plasma ions can absorb EUV -
http://pesn.com/2014/01/22/9602426_LENR-to-Market_Digest_January22/
It could be a Papp like process as you suspect Axil. I do not know what is
fact or fiction with the Papp engine and much of what Mills is stating. We
need good data if we are to make much headway in understand these systems.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Axil Axil
Here is some believe your own eyes type data:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1oPB_iniQ4https
At 2:00 Papp disconnect the batteries and the engine still runs. This was
demonstrated to the patent office and Papp got the best patent of the year
award back in the 70s..
When Mills can do that,
This ability of nano particles to make steam with lesser energy input
may also make it possible to get false positive result in LENR.
If
nano particles is used and laser or maybe some other simulation is used
and the steam or evaporation is used for calorimetry.
Torulf
On Wed,
22 Jan 2014
From: Axil Axil
Here is some believe your own eyes type data:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1oPB_iniQ4https
LOL this is your idea of data ? Give me a break. absolutely zero data there.
I wish I had that wasted 6 minutes back. What a con artist Papp was.
The longest
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
Here is your “back to reality” information on Papp from Feynman himself.
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/comments/papparticle2.html
If we assume the thing was real, then Feynman was responsible for the
accident. He killed someone. It was criminal. Real
Regarding electronic controls, let me add that there is a difference
between unplugging a device and having a power failure. I don't know about
the Papp machine, but some of my power tools have a brake that engages when
the power fails or when you turn off the power switch. If you unplug the
Jed,
I thought so too, when Gene first published the other side of the story.
But if your read Feynman's account carefully, and you should - then you will
see that Papp himself unplugged engine and handed the plug to Feynman.
Feynman did not unplug the machine - he merely failed to give
Still Feynman obstructed Papp from operating a device that Feynman did not
understand.
By doing so he essentially became fully responsible for anything the
machine does due to the power being disconnected for too long.
It was only Feynman's cynicism that would not have him plug it back in
despite
If the Papp engine was not producing over unity power, then with the wall
power removed the Papp engine should have stopped. This is what RF
thought. But unexpectedly, the engine increased its power output until it
blew apart. This is not the behavior of a scam that RF was assuming. This
is the
I have to admit that sometimes I do not believe my own eyes. I once saw what
some refer to as a UFO and I did not believe what I saw. In that case, I would
have had to go up to whatever it was and inspect it in detail before accepting
that it was real. To believe in a device as revolutionary
More...
When Papp found out he was going to die, Papp flushed his secret fuel mix
from all his engines three months before he died. If the Papp engine was a
scam, why would Papp go to the trouble just to keep his secret from the
world?
On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 7:45 PM, Axil Axil
Jones Beene,
Nobody knows if the Papp engine was real. Papp certainly demonstrated
some remarkable things like a cannon, with many witnesses, that blew up
with more force than a conventional explosive.
Whether Feynman unplugged the wire is secondary to Papp becoming
agitated when he
I do not think this would be a problem. Remember, the amount of steam formed
must still be proportional to the amount of heat energy injected. A device
such as this can only make a small quantity of steam from a well defined amount
of heat energy. If some method is found to extract heat
On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 8:05 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
The other problem I find difficult to accept is that the Papp engine did
not find its way into production if it actually performed as described.
Even an idiot would instantly realize that the Papp engine would be a
David, you show a most annoying circular reasoning trap.
First you fail to recognize the obvious resistance to a product that will
put oil and energy companies out of business, one of the biggest there is.
Next you say that you would require an extraordinary level of evidence to
believe in it.
I look at this issue from another angle. If Papp had a real engine, then why
would he want to keep it from humanity? It seems more likely that he wanted to
prevent others from seeing that his device was a fake and the liquids would
make that obvious. Many people would like to prevent being
From: Axil Axil
If the Papp engine was not producing over unity power, then with the wall
power removed the Papp engine should have stopped.
Not if there was a battery and other circuitry designed to cause a
catastrophic failure after a burst of acceleration; so apparently you did
not
RF was delusional. The engine was inspected after the incident and no
battery was found and not explosive residue either. That is why RF's
employer settled with Papp out of court for big money.
On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 8:34 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
*From:* Axil Axil
If
Papp never made things easy for those who seek his secrets. After the
disastrous demo in which the Nobel laureate Richard Feynman attended and
witnessed the explosion that killed and maimed a few of those in
attendance, Papp never could be persuaded to give the engine up for an
independent
I sure hope not! If Mills really has a device that performs as he indicates,
then I will be super pleased.
There is great pleasure in seeing something you helped design go into
production and be used by thousands of happy clients. Nothing feels better
than seeing your design out in public
If I remember it right.
There was relatively newly at PES, much
about an Papp-engine called noble gas engine. The PES people appears
to believe in all weird things but they
exposed this as a simple
fraud.
Torulf
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 20:43:05 -0500 (EST), David
Roberson wrote: I sure hope
You should further your education into human nature by dealing with a
criminal psychopath. Bernie Madoff is not available anymore but I am sure
there are many more doing business on wall street.
On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 8:43 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
I sure hope not! If
Pardon - this has probably already been mentioned before, but could this
be related to the alleged excess energy released in water arc explosions?
I do not know how real the results are, but some papers that
directly or indirectly reference them follow:
The Alternative to Nuclear Energy - Peter
This angle was covered in the BLP demo - the energizing electrodes thread
to some degree.
Water arcs have been know to produce over unity power production.
In 1969, the US Bureau of Mines issued a long report on their investigation
into using water arc explosions for rock fragmentation. In one
-Original Message-
From: pagnu...@htdconnect.com
How credible are the excess energy claims?
In the balance of credibility - towards water arc gainfulness, you should
also consider George Hathaway's retraction of the Graneau work. He was
coauthor.
Sorry John. You are correct about what you say to a certain extent. How much
resistance do you think the general public would exhibit to owning a vehicle
that runs virtually for free? This is the same group that will ensure that
LENR does not get hidden behind closed doors. It is far more
I have dealt with crooks before Axil. On several occasions I designed radio
devices that worked as advertised but the clients realized that I was too busy
to spend the time and effort suing them to collect the bonus payment earned.
You can understand why they found themselves having to
I have a possible take on a man like Mills who has invested so much into
this theory that might be Papp like. If his world saving invention was
found to contradict the hydrino theory, he might pull a Papp and kill the
project to maintain his place in history.
When a man ties his ego so very
WD Hamilton, in Innate Social Aptitudes of Man wrote about the tendency
of civilization to breed cultural creativity out of the gene pool for the
simple and obvious reason that the benefits of invention do not go to the
inventor's genetic correlates while the inventor bears the costs of
invention
That may be the solution Axil. Pride can make people do things that they would
not do otherwise. I am sure most of us have said of done things that we later
realized was not entirely accurate but failed to set the record straight.
Perhaps, as more of your existence becomes entangled in the
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
But if your read Feynman’s account carefully, and you should - then you
will see that Papp himself unplugged engine and handed the plug to Feynman.
Feynman did not unplug the machine – he merely failed to give back the plug
to Papp.
No, sorry, that is
I cannot determine if Papp was a fraud or not. However, I do agree ego is
far more important than logic or the good for others.
In the sevenntoies I met aguy who offered me to be his partner
mmanufacturing and selling the best wind xcreen cleaner stuff I have seen.
However, his conditions was I
That does cast some doubt on the original claims.
Some of Graneau's papers are more recent than Hathaway's retraction, so
Graneau is either stubborn, or maybe correct after all. Quite possible
that the authors were pressured to retract or suffer consequences.
An interesting paper that, while
On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 5:05 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
Why on earth would they let such an opportunity get away? It just doesn't
add up.
Just to play devil's advocate, perhaps Papp had onerous licensing terms.
Given that he is reported by Axil to have taken the specific
On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 3:31 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
Sorry John. You are correct about what you say to a certain extent. How
much resistance do you think the general public would exhibit to owning a
vehicle that runs virtually for free?
Virtually zero, BUT that is the
Perhaps so Eric. Many have been blinded by the need to acquire great wealth to
such an extent that they missed achieving modest wealth altogether. I do not
know much about Papp other than what I have read and that is limited. If his
engine actually performed as he claimed it is a shame that
Here are some thoughts on the CoE.
What major quantum physics theory would drastically oppose the CoE?
The many worlds interpretation of quantum physics, One instant you have one
universe, next instant you have thousands that have split off due to
probabilities.
Does this mean that the many
BTW, I looked into WMI and found that the only real answer to it (that does
not limit the CoE to applying within each universe only) is that the worlds
don't split off (branch) but that they are already separate but identical.
This has 2 issues, first it means that a universe will finally stop
It is obvious that we are in disagreement on plenty of issues and I will leave
it at that.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wed, Jan 22, 2014 11:10 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nanoparticles make steam without bring water
It is enlightening to consider the structure of the universe and the many
wonders that it reveals to us. Keep asking the right questions and you will
find appropriate answers.
I have observed the behavior of particles and energies for some time now and I
find that the CoE is an effective way
People who are following this list are already acquainted with my views on
hydrinos -- I do not believe they are plausible. This is despite the fact
that some smart people here take them seriously. Nonetheless, because they
upset so many assumptions, I have enjoyed thinking about them in the
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