date:20120810


At 08:31 PM 8/10/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote:
He imprisoned a decorated American Colonel soldier because he did 
not want to reveal his Vault BC.


Okay, here is what Jojo is talking about:

http://www.stripes.com/news/birther-sentenced-to-six-months-in-prison-kicked-out-of-army-1.128924

This is truly a sad case, but Obama did not imprison the fellow. A 
military court did, and the colonel acknowledged that what he did was wrong.


Jojo, how about you send this guy the money he lost by standing for 
what you believe? It was people like you who egged him on.


http://www.terrylakinactionfund.com/

There you go, Jojo. Try to make up, at least a bit, for the damage you did.

I did find some agreement with Joj's position. In Pravda:

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/15-06-2012/121397-barack_obama_prison-0/

On the other hand, in the matter of legal opinion, the view that Jojo 
described as just my opinion seems to have been the opinion of every 
court which has considered the issue, and of academics and lawyers, 
with hardly any exception.


See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause

I know that Wikipedia articles might not be complete, but ...

It's looking like Jojo has simply been lying.

Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 11:11 PM, Jojo Jaro  wrote:

**
> But I am tired of this.  You may have the last word.  I will not
> be posting this forum anymore.  You may celebrate.  You win.  Go ahead and
> destroy this fine forum with your off-topic posts just to "gab with
> friends".
>

Jojo, the fact that you've succeeded in getting this far is an indication
that people like you.  But you need to be protected from yourself.  Before
you started trying to make this point your occasional posts were
interesting.  Stop being a troll and everything will be good.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy

2012-08-10 Thread Jojo Jaro

Hate speech is when people imply birthers are clueless.
Hate speech is when people call those who believe in Intelligent Design 
uninformed.
Hate speech is when people make fun of what people believe.

Calling bambi a criminal is not hate speech, since it is the truth.
Presenting Evidence for Intelligent Design is not hate speech.
Asking for evidence from bambi regarding his vault Birth Certificate is not 
hate speech.
Calling Islam a hateful religion is NOT hate speech as it is the truth.

You may call anything hate speech but that does not make it true.

But I am tired of this.  You may have the last word.  I will not be posting 
this forum anymore.  You may celebrate.  You win.  Go ahead and destroy this 
fine forum with your off-topic posts just to "gab with friends".

Jojo


  - Original Message - 
  From: Eric Walker 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 1:53 PM
  Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are 
crazy


  On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 8:44 AM, Jojo Jaro  wrote:


If you want attacks to stop, then call for moderation in this forum from 
the people who are most guilty.  Off-topic posts are destroying this forum; and 
believe me, I am the last person who wants that to happen.


  The thread on Barack Obama has bordered on hate speech.  You're trying to 
change this forum into something else in order to make a personal point.  You 
should stop.


  Eric

Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy


At 08:38 PM 8/10/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote:
Baloney.  The courts have ruled that a Natural Born US citizen is 
one where both parents are US Citizens and born in US soil.  And 
here you are elevating yourself to a position higher than the 
courts.  You can not throw away court decisions you don't 
like.  That is anarchy.


Jojo, a little lesson in logic.

The proposition that A is B does not negate that C may also be B.

Someone with both parents who are U.S. Citizens are "natural born 
U.S. citizens." However, this does not tell us what the situation is 
with the other cases. You are claiming that "the courts have ruled" 
only with respect to the first case. You have not pointed to any case 
ruling on the relevant other cases.


Specifically, here, the most relevant question is whether or not a 
person born in the United States or U.S. territories, of a U.S. 
citizen parent and a non-citizen parent, which is the case with 
Obama, is a "natural born citizen." Any case on that, Jojo? My 
understanding is that there have been cases, and they have not gone 
as you have claimed, certainly not after the 14th amendment was passed.


to quote it:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to 
the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of 
the State wherein they reside.


This covers "natural born" with the first category. Naturalized is 
the excluded category. Naturalized citizens cannot become the 
President. People born in the United States (i.e., subject to U.S. 
jurisdiction at birth) are citizens by right of birth, and "natural 
born citizen" has never meant, since that amendment, anything but that.


You are confidently asserting that there are contrary cases, "the 
courts have ruled." Okay, what cases? Put up, or, more likely, given 
how you are trending, shut up.


You know, I don't even read you verbose essays anymore.  I grow 
tired of the lies, the misinformed opinions, and the blatant 
propaganda masquerading as informed opinion.  You have succeeded in 
doing one thing.  You have succeeded in wearing me down with your 
useless words.


So maybe the time has not been entirely wasted.

So, I'll let you have the last word.  Anyone who listens to you 
deserve to have the same cranial enema that you apparently are in 
serious need of.


Someone who believes what you write is in even more serious trouble

Make us all happy, perhaps your only good deed here. Go away.

I will say that I've learned a lot in the last couple of days. I 
really had no idea how crazy the birthers were. Jojo's arguments 
about the odds against random mutations driving speciation were at 
least, old arguments, not totally wing-nut, just erroneous. But he 
went totally off the deep end, not only about the birth certificate 
issue, but with the constant use of contemptuous names, like "bambi." 
All the while pretending to be a Christian. I don't believe it. I 
work closely with real Christians, they are not responsible for Jojo 
any more than I'm responsible for Obama bin Laden.

Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy

On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 8:44 AM, Jojo Jaro  wrote:

**
> If you want attacks to stop, then call for moderation in this forum from
> the people who are most guilty.  Off-topic posts are destroying this forum;
> and believe me, I am the last person who wants that to happen.
>

The thread on Barack Obama has bordered on hate speech.  You're trying to
change this forum into something else in order to make a personal point.
 You should stop.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy


At 08:31 PM 8/10/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote:
I grow tired of reading your verbose essays of "YOUR" opinion as if 
you're an expert.  Are you a Software Architect that knows how lousy 
compression works.


Well, I've merely worked with compression algorithms for, what, about 
thirty years. No, I'm not an expert. I'm just someone not snowed by 
idiots like you. Not that anyone here is being snowed by you.


Do you know the lousy algortihm intimately enough to say what the 
"artifacts" are?


Yes. They are obvious to anyone who has worked with compressed image files.

  I have an MS in Computer Science and I don't even intimately know 
the algorithm for lousy jpg compression;


There are many different algorithms, but the basic concept involves 
recognizing repeated patterns. With a non-lossy algorithm, you only 
allow compression through exact repeats. A zipfile is that. But image 
files, especially JPEGS, can be highly lossy.


You have an MS in Computer Science and don't know this stuff? Oh, 
"intimately." I don't know it "intimately," but I know enough to 
recognize baloney, and many of the birther claims about the PDF files 
are just that.


but I can tell your "expert opinion" below consists of nothing more 
than Highly Enriched Weapons Grade Balonium.


Weapons grade. Thanks.

   Over a dozen document experts, software experts and other 
experts have said the BC presented to us was fake; and here you are 
thinking you are smarter than everybody.  Typical Arrogance.


Biased sample, Jojo. You are only selecting the experts you agree 
with. There are *many* experts who have opined the opposite of your 
position. Bottom line, Jojo. Prove it. It's all irrelevant if nobody 
actually takes this to court. Go ahead, put your money together and 
waste it on this. I'll be happy, because that's just so much less 
money to be spent on real mischief.


I'm not "smarter than everybody." As I mentioned, one of the 
"experts" had me going for a bit. I did suspect something was off, 
but wasn't sure. And then what I found, searching for commentary on 
that "expert" jogged my memory. Yes.


It's obvious. Lossy compression works by recognizing *approximate* 
patterns and replacing them with a single version, which is then 
repeated. I pointed to a higher-resolution copy that hasn't been 
compressed in that way. It was still available as JPEG and you can 
see some JPEG artifacts in the colors, in particular, but it's much 
better and the supposed "proofs" of alteration aren't there.


The remaining interesting allegation is the showing of various 
"versions" of letters. To me, the letters look as the same font, and 
I don't see being done what one would sensibly and scientifically do: 
examine the variation in type patterns of many documents; what has 
been shown is easily artifact of two things: various levels of impact 
from the keys, ribbon differences, incomplete ink transfer, and 
digitisation variations. What is done is not scientific, it's on the 
level of "gee, this looks weird." What is weird? How much variation 
is *normal*? I could do that work, but, frankly, I consider that the 
whole topic is a waste of time. I've already wasted far too much time 
on this. I did look, at everything you pointed to. You struck out, 
Jojo. You had your chance.



BUT, just answer why Bambi has not allowed his Vault BC to be seen.


It's been seen. The "Vault BC," by the way, is legally unnecessary. 
The critical information is on the short form that was released, and 
if Obama has ever applied for a passport -- and he has -- he had to 
present one of those. Not some copy, a state-certified original.



  He can end this Birther movement and nip it at the roots if he did so.


It's been demonstrated, quite well, that birthers like you will never 
give up. The release of the long form had long been demanded on the 
same basis. Note: if the long form document is a forgery, what's 
important about it. The excuse for the whole flap has been the 
question of eligibility, and the short form has all that is needed to 
know about that. The basis now being asserted for a problem is that 
supposedly Obama had something to hide, something so embarrassing 
that he'd risk impeachment to hide it. It's all fishing, and has gone 
way beyond merely silly. It's looney-tune wacko.


  Why hasn't he done so?  When somebody is going to great lengths 
that Bambi is going to, somebody is hiding something.  Something 
that is criminal.  For me, it's no longer about the BC, it about 
obstruction of Justice.  I remember one former president having to 
resign due to an offense much more minor than what Bambi is doing 
now.  He imprisoned a decorated American Colonel soldier because he 
did not want to reveal his Vault BC.  Such actions are 
treasonous.  And if you think that is OK, then you are 
treasonous.  You are working for the destruction of America and 
change it to your way of life.  Maybe, both your actions shouldn't 
surprise me at all as I know both

Re: [Vo]:Is Palladium a red herring?

Le Aug 10, 2012 à 4:59 PM, "Kelley Trezise"  a écrit :.

> If it is the micro structural defects that provide the environment for the 
> reaction to take place then any material that provides such a place be it 
> tungsten, iron, cobalt, or what have you will suffice provided the hydrogen 
> can make its way into the site.

This is correct.  In addition to palladium and nickel, other substrates that 
have been found to catalyze anomalous heat are tungsten and titanium.  Some 
others that are mentioned in Ed Storms's book on the topic are carbon and gold.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:the Coil

Le Aug 10, 2012 à 5:24 PM, mix...@bigpond.com a écrit :

> The reaction 3*He4 => C12 yields 7.27 MeV. (Helium burning in stars).
> 
> Removing a proton from C12 to produce B11 *costs* 15.96 MeV.
> 
> Hence adding a proton to B11 with the ensuing production of 3 alpha particles
> produces 8.68 MeV. 
> 
> When the proton fuses with B11 it momentarily creates C12*, which usually 
> splits
> into three alphas, but not always.
> 
> (C12* is C12 in an excited state - it has an additional 15.96 MeV that it
> desperately wants to get rid of).

Setting aside the question of 12C -> 11B + p (I'm not sure why that would be a 
desirable reaction), there is this interesting paragraph in the Wikipedia 
article:

"Ordinarily, the probability of the triple alpha process would be extremely 
small. However, the beryllium-8 ground state has almost exactly the energy of 
two alpha particles. In the second step, 8Be + 4He has almost exactly the 
energy of an excited state of 12C. These resonances greatly increase the 
probability that an incoming alpha particle will combine with beryllium-8 to 
form carbon."

Does anyone know what the modified probability would be?  I believe Rydberg 
matter is matter that is in an excited state.  Would that be a factor?  While 
2*4He -> 8Be is endothermic, it requires keV (93.7) and not MeV.

Eric

[Vo]:The original Papp patent.

The original Papp patent. Be warned, it contains many booby traps.
 http://freenrg.info/Practical_Guide_FE_Devices/D11.pdf

Cheers:Axil

Re: [Vo]:Hydrogen in Papp

I have used
http://www.airproducts.com/products/Gases.aspx

Based on what i read they will have a freon-type cannister you will pickup
at the local automotive store and just screw onto the engine to recharge.

On Friday, August 10, 2012, Terry Blanton wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 10:47 PM, Axil Axil >
> wrote:
> >
> > I was wondering. Where will you get the noble gases at? That might be
> expensive, or as a chemistry person, do you have a inside connection.
>
> http://airgas.com/
>
>
> T
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Hydrogen in Papp

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 10:47 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
> I was wondering. Where will you get the noble gases at? That might be 
> expensive, or as a chemistry person, do you have a inside connection.

http://airgas.com/


T

Re: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test reactor


A technical analysis at last!

On 2012-08-11 04:05, Robert Lynn wrote:

Looks like Rossi has invented a tube furnace,or bought one and coated it
in a refractory.


Yep, a very crude device. Makes you wonder about others', or maybe the 
opposite depending on your point of view.



Not a very convincing picture.  No visible connections for gas or other
fluids, no temperature sensors, just a couple of electrical supplies.
  Typically shoddy Rossi work, and again I ask myself is this deliberate
to create more uncertainty, or simply lazy?


This was posted by a *very* reliable inside source (probably one of 
Rossi's technical advisors - he has direct, first hand access to his 
devices, reports having disassembled them and performed measurements 
personally, including those of this high temperature E-Cat core) who 
never deliberately gave misinformation to his public. Although there's 
still the chance this could have happened, I think it's quite small. For 
what it's worth, Daniele Passerini confirms too the authenticity of this 
photo, having already seen similar ones privately some time ago. But you 
might probably not consider him a reliable source.


I thought it was a known fact that Rossi now uses hydrides instead of 
Hydrogen gas. Maybe my impression was wrong?


As for other [cooling] fluids, this is a bare reactor. Do you remember 
the first public Defkalion GT testing protocol? They were supposed to 
make the invited scientists test stripped down reactors, with no cooling 
other than optionally blown air. Same deal here, except there was 
probably no cooling performed when this photo was taken.


Temperatures, as the description reports, in this case are measured 
through laser thermometers and a thermal camera. So the visible 
electrical connections are all is needed to make this work.


Again, it's a very crude device. But if it's just supposed to make a lot 
of uncontrolled heat, it could be more than enough for the job.



Also unclear how this heat is being radiated away when there is only a
small hole for the heat to leave through, and from the colour it doesn't
look like it is over 1000°C (though photos can be deceptive the rest of
the environment around the picture looks quite normal).  From colour the
outer surface is quite obviously relatively cool, not 800°C - looks more
like <500°C. (I used to work with engine exhausts that ran in 500-1000°C
range, so have some experience of heat-colour, eg check out what looks
like a 950°C max exhaust:
http://www.strangecosmos.com/content/item/177605.html)


If you check this image, you can see that an arrow points to an area 
where the clay-like material is in part missing, and the underlying 
surface from the outer cylinder is literally red hot. This might be of 
help in assessing the outer surface temperature:


http://i.imgur.com/5IOPM.jpg

[...]

There are not many metals that will withstand operating at such high
temperatures, and not safely when exposed to hydrogen at pressure.  Not
pressure sealing sounds like rubbish, refractory sealants wont seal
metals at high temp due to differential thermal expansion.


I'm not sure there's hydrogen at pressure anymore as I previously 
mentioned. If Rossi is now using hydrides in the active material, there 
might be no need anymore for pressure sealing or high pressure 
resistance for the reactor walls (very important since working 
temperatures are quite high). But I'm not an expert in this area so I 
shouldn't really write much about it.



The mention of gas heating makes me very suspicious that this will be
his next method for hiding or confusing the results that he produces in
yet another unconvincing demo.


Rossi is basically saying that excess heat in his new E-Cat can be 
triggered by heat, something which Francesco Celani already experienced 
with his treated Ni-Cu-Mn wires, and documented in his latest report:


http://www.22passi.it/downloads/PresICCF17_NewA3A.pdf

More in detail, he mentions that "the reaction, apart some temperature 
threshold, has a positive feedback with increasing temperature". His 
demonstrative reactor is probably more similar to Rossi's E-Cat than it 
would seem.


Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:Hydrogen in Papp

I was wondering. Where will you get the noble gases at? That might be
expensive, or as a chemistry person, do you have a inside connection.


 Cheers:Axil

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 10:00 PM, Chemical Engineer wrote:

> I'm buying the kit!
>
> I guess that thing has an alternator keeping the battery charged and
> firing the starter coil so in effect it is self-sustaining until the gas
> leaks by seals, etc.
>
> 300 hp = 224 kW self sustaining and that is the 2 cylinder unit!  HOLY
> S#%€ is that thing real?  If they are going to be at powergen with OEMs
> showing products it will have some credibility. I am going.
>
> 1500 hp = 1.1 MWs from a 360cc 6 cylinder engine?  HOLY DOUBLE S%#£!
>  Nascar on steriods.
>
> Why screw with a bunch of nickel powder and stuff trying to create a 5 kW
> NAE when you can have one of these guys coupled with a drive train or
> generator.
>
>
> On Friday, August 10, 2012, Axil Axil wrote:
>
>> In very large displacement Papp engines used in ships and megawatt level
>> electric production. Hydrogen might be added to the noble gas mix to offset
>> the relatively high cost noble gases.
>>
>>
>>  CheersL: Axil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Hydrogen in Papp

Geeze, I'm the friggin' class clown.  Could youse guys get serious again.
 Otherwise, I'm gonna file a grievance.

Doh!

T

Re: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test reactor

2012-08-10 Thread Robert Lynn

Looks like Rossi has invented a tube furnace,or bought one and coated it in
a refractory.

Not a very convincing picture.  No visible connections for gas or other
fluids, no temperature sensors, just a couple of electrical supplies.
 Typically shoddy Rossi work, and again I ask myself is this deliberate to
create more uncertainty, or simply lazy?

Also unclear how this heat is being radiated away when there is only a
small hole for the heat to leave through, and from the colour it doesn't
look like it is over 1000°C (though photos can be deceptive the rest of the
environment around the picture looks quite normal).  From colour the outer
surface is quite obviously relatively cool, not 800°C - looks more like
<500°C. (I used to work with engine exhausts that ran in 500-1000°C range,
so have some experience of heat-colour, eg check out what looks like a
950°C max exhaust: http://www.strangecosmos.com/content/item/177605.html)

Doing a very crude estimate:  holes in ends 40mm diameter (assuming bolts
are 14mm), area .0012m² and radiating about 150kW/m² (1000°C black body to
30°C environment, is only radiating about 150W from each end.  While outer
surface at 500°C (radiating 20kW/m²) and assuming 140mm diameter and 300mm
long or about 0.13m² total, would give about 2.6kW of radiated heat.  So we
are in the right ball park if the input energy was 3.5kW as stated.

There are not many metals that will withstand operating at such high
temperatures, and not safely when exposed to hydrogen at pressure.  Not
pressure sealing sounds like rubbish, refractory sealants wont seal metals
at high temp due to differential thermal expansion.

The mention of gas heating makes me very suspicious that this will be his
next method for hiding or confusing the results that he produces in yet
another unconvincing demo.

Compared and contrasted to Celani and Defkalion's recent info, Rossi needs
to lift his game a lot if he want to keep playing, but he is doing nothing
to improve his believability.

Rossi is looking more and more dodgy in my book, and this is even giving
him the benefit of the doubt for his many lies in the last year (selling
1MW reactor etc).  I would be quite happy if he disappeared never to be
seen again as without a proper demo he is doing nothing but harm to the
field.  It would be seriously disappointing if Defkalion turned out to be
scammers too - but the detail in their latest releases seems pretty
convincing.

On 10 August 2012 19:23, Akira Shirakawa  wrote:

> Hello group,
>
> Have a look at the following photo and the attached technical information.
> These come from a quite reliable inside source who was allowed to "leak"
> some data and information about Rossi's 1200 °C test E-Cat core currently
> under testing. This was originally in Italian language, any error in
> translation is my fault.
>
> * * *
>
> http://i.imgur.com/4XlY2.jpg
>
> [The reactor] is composed of two coaxial steel cylinders. The internal
> space between the two cylinders contains an electrical heating resistance
> and the reaction chamber with the active material. The cylinder bases are
> sealed with heat resistant sealant for blast furnace use. Pressure sealing
> is not needed. The whole has been painted in black to increase emissivity
> and can withstand 1200 °C.
>
> The photo shows a phase of the measurements
>
> At the time of this photo, the average outer surface temperature was 801
> °C, with local hot spots of 873 °C. The inner surface temperature ranged
> from 1100 °C to over 1200 °C. Two electrical heating resistances in
> parallel (the 4 visible cables). Value of the resistances in parallel: 6
> Ohm. AC (50 Hz) input voltage of 147 Volts. Current consumption 24.25
> Ampere. Power consumption 3.56 kW. Heat power irradiated by both inner and
> outer walls, assumed equal for a total of 13.39 kW, including the average
> ambient temperature of 35 °C.
> Inner wall of bright white color, unapproachable under 1 meter of distance
> because of hot air flow. Outer wall measured by thermal camera with 2%
> measurement precision. Inner wall measurement by laser thermometer from a
> 1.2 meter distance by the shaky hand of a person who didn't want to get
> cooked.
> Conservative, rounded down values due to heat taken off by convective flow
> estimated to be at least 8% on the outer wall and low irradiation cosine
> for the inner wall due to high irradiation angle toward laser thermometer
> (pointing almost in axis with the inner cylinder).
> Stable reaction, without strange happenings. Virtually boring.
>
> COP raises when 1000 °C are exceeded on the outer wall. [Fuel] consumption
> is that of a [nuclear] fusion reaction, that is, almost nonexistent. A
> proper estimate would require to turn the thing on and then taking a very
> long vacation before verifying the actual consumption.
>
> For the sake of completeness, it should be noted that data are preliminary
> and that inner cylinder measurements will have to be remade with less shaky
>

[Vo]:Hydrogen in Papp

I'm buying the kit!

I guess that thing has an alternator keeping the battery charged and firing
the starter coil so in effect it is self-sustaining until the gas leaks by
seals, etc.

300 hp = 224 kW self sustaining and that is the 2 cylinder unit!  HOLY S#%€
is that thing real?  If they are going to be at powergen with OEMs showing
products it will have some credibility. I am going.

1500 hp = 1.1 MWs from a 360cc 6 cylinder engine?  HOLY DOUBLE S%#£!
 Nascar on steriods.

Why screw with a bunch of nickel powder and stuff trying to create a 5 kW
NAE when you can have one of these guys coupled with a drive train or
generator.

On Friday, August 10, 2012, Axil Axil wrote:

> In very large displacement Papp engines used in ships and megawatt level
> electric production. Hydrogen might be added to the noble gas mix to offset
> the relatively high cost noble gases.
>
>
>  CheersL: Axil
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Hydrogen in Papp

I'm buying the kit!

I guess that thing has an alternator keeping the battery charged and firing
the starter coil so in effect it is self-sustaining until the gas leaks by
seals, etc.

300 hp = 224 kW self sustaining and that is the 2 cylinder unit!  HOLY S#%€
is that thing real?  If they are going to be at powergen with OEMs showing
products it will have some credibility. I am going.

1500 hp = 1.1 MWs from a 360cc 6 cylinder engine?  HOLY DOUBLE S%#£!
 Nascar on steriods.

Why screw with a bunch of nickel powder and stuff trying to create a 5 kW
NAE when you can have one of these guys coupled with a drive train or
generator.

On Friday, August 10, 2012, Axil Axil wrote:

> In very large displacement Papp engines used in ships and megawatt level
> electric production. Hydrogen might be added to the noble gas mix to offset
> the relatively high cost noble gases.
>
>
>  CheersL: Axil
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy

2012-08-10 Thread Jojo Jaro

Baloney.  The courts have ruled that a Natural Born US citizen is one where 
both parents are US Citizens and born in US soil.  And here you are 
elevating yourself to a position higher than the courts.  You can not throw 
away court decisions you don't like.  That is anarchy.


You know, I don't even read you verbose essays anymore.  I grow tired of the 
lies, the misinformed opinions, and the blatant propaganda masquerading as 
informed opinion.  You have succeeded in doing one thing.  You have 
succeeded in wearing me down with your useless words.


So, I'll let you have the last word.  Anyone who listens to you deserve to 
have the same cranial enema that you apparently are in serious need of.



Jojo



- Original Message - 
From: "Abd ul-Rahman Lomax" 

To: ; 
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 5:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are 
crazy




At 08:42 PM 8/9/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote:

Baloney.  This is your opinion proffered as law.

Nothing more than a bunch of BS.  A Natural Born US citizen is one with 
both US citizen parents and born on US soil.  Period.  Stop the lies.


That opinion was rejected more than a hundred years ago.

There are some interesting legal issues here, but they are utterly of no 
practical consequence. The position that both parents must be "US 
citizens" is utterly without foundation, it's made up.


The case of a U.S. Citizen mother and a non-citizen father, with the child 
born outside the U.S., is a marginal one and it's not clear how a court 
would decide. Does the law in effect in 1961 apply? If later law 
essentially defines "natural born" differently -- as it does --, does this 
reach back and define as "natural born" for purposes of the constitutional 
requirement, according to the current definition?


Some statements I've seen of the current law imply that it is not 
retroactive, so if this is true, then Obama would not be a natural born 
citizen, since his mother was three months short of her 19th birthday, 
which is the age required under the old law for the birth to be automatic 
citizenship.


Jojo seems to be requiring that the constitutional provision have some 
kind of "original intepretation," but it's entirely unclear what that was. 
The original clause, from what I've seen, was inserted at the last minute 
and without explanation.


What I've been asserting is what a U.S. court would be likely to decide, 
based on precedent. Jojo seems to belong to a "fundamentalist" school of 
law, that presumes that there is some "constitutional law" that exists 
separately from how the courts interpret it. And anyone who sides with the 
court's actual interpretation, as confirmed over, say, more than a 
century, is a liar.


It's fanaticism, pure and simple.

The marginal case is irrelevant, because Obama will be considered by any 
court, unless someone pulls a rabbit out of a hat, as being born in the 
U.S., specifically in Hawaii, in 1961. It's established by the required 
documentation, and anyone who thinks that the courts will disregard the 
documentation, absent a clear showing of fraud, is seriously deluded.


The U.S. Supreme Court has, to my chagrin, made decisions that were 
motivated by results rather than the facts and law and precedent in a 
case, but a decision removing a sitting President based on what has been 
alleged is far, far worse than anything I've ever seen them do. Even if it 
were actually shown that Obama were born in Kenya, for example, the Court 
would be highly likely to refuse the case, citing res judicata, that the 
matter was decided by Congress in certifying the election results. 
Congress has the right -- and responsibility -- 
to consider eligibility.


Congress could also impeach, if there was Presidential misbehavior 
involved, and forging documents would probably be considered misbehavior. 
That is a reason why the forgery is exrremely unlikely. It's difficult to 
imagine anything that might be on the document that would be worth risking 
his presidency over. People have claimed that the father might be 
different, and that he couldn't stand the heat of that. Highly unlikely, 
folks, even if it were true.


(On the other hand, I'd have thought that a sitting President was 
constitutionally protected from prosecution, and the Court, not so long 
ago, allowed a sitting president to be thoroughly harassed over matters 
that were entirely distracting from the business of the Presidency.)


Notice how the birther claims are essentially all over the map. What's 
consistent about them is that "there is something wrong."


There usually is, if you look hard enough. That is, you can always find 
something that *looks wrong.* It just takes persistence. Look at what I 
found about the long form. All kinds of ridiculous claims, presented as if 
they established some kind of strong suspicion of "wrong." And nothing 
more there than the kinds of oddities that commonly occur.

Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy

2012-08-10 Thread Jojo Jaro

I grow tired of reading your verbose essays of "YOUR" opinion as if you're 
an expert.  Are you a Software Architect that knows how lousy compression 
works.  Do you know the lousy algortihm intimately enough to say what the 
"artifacts" are?  I have an MS in Computer Science and I don't even 
intimately know the algorithm for lousy jpg compression; but I can tell your 
"expert opinion" below consists of nothing more than Highly Enriched Weapons 
Grade Balonium.   Over a dozen document experts, software experts and other 
experts have said the BC presented to us was fake; and here you are thinking 
you are smarter than everybody.  Typical Arrogance.


BUT, just answer why Bambi has not allowed his Vault BC to be seen.  He can 
end this Birther movement and nip it at the roots if he did so.  Why hasn't 
he done so?  When somebody is going to great lengths that Bambi is going to, 
somebody is hiding something.  Something that is criminal.  For me, it's no 
longer about the BC, it about obstruction of Justice.  I remember one former 
president having to resign due to an offense much more minor than what Bambi 
is doing now.  He imprisoned a decorated American Colonel soldier because he 
did not want to reveal his Vault BC.  Such actions are treasonous.  And if 
you think that is OK, then you are treasonous.  You are working for the 
destruction of America and change it to your way of life.  Maybe, both your 
actions shouldn't surprise me at all as I know both of your backgrounds.




Jojo





- Original Message - 
From: "Abd ul-Rahman Lomax" 

To: ; 
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 5:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are 
crazy



At 08:40 PM 8/9/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote:

Weapons-grade Balonium

Everyone with half a brain cell knows that what he released was faked.  But 
I guess I can forgive you because you don't have half a brain cell.


Attempting to use my quarter-cell, I wasted an
entire day researching the birther claims. Let's
say that Jojo's position appears to be that
anyone who agrees with the strong majority of
experts and commentators is stupid.

The evidence out there had me going for a short
time. I found some stuff by Miss Tickle that
seemed to show clear evidence of image
alteration. I did suspect it, but, hey, it looked
bad! So I checked it out further. Yes. I could
see in the originals presented by Miss Tickle
that the image was a jpeg and had been through
lossy compression. I didn't know the specifics of
this to be sure about the effect, but I did
somewhat suspect that sections of the image, say
the check boxes, were identical to other
sections, at the pixel level, as being caused by
the compression algorithm. I.e., one image of a
box was repeated as being considered by the
algorithm, as sufficiently identical to allow the
transmission of a single image that is repeated.

So the real story: the images released were
compressed. Like, that was obvious from a quick
glance. If you look at the text on the LFBC,
you'll see a halo around the text. That's an
artifact of compression. If the image were not
compressed, those images would be huge.
Compressing images is routine in web
presentations. I don't know if an uncompressed
scan is available. Ideally, it should be. Lossy
compression was used, because it is more
effective. It's also possible that the images
were enhanced to improve legibility.

But the real point is entirely missed. Legally,
it's not the image that counts, it is the
certification of the public official that the
document is a true copy. If someone was taking
such a certified document and altering it,
presenting it publically, to obtain an advantage,
that would probably be a felony, and one very easily established.

To obtain a legal right, one would have to
present the original signed and sealed document.
I've been through this. Copies are completely
inadequate, unless themselves certified under
oath (and thus penalty of perjury). You can't get
a passport, for example, by presenting an
uncertified copy of a birth certificate. You need
a certified copy, with the state seal and an original official signature.

I saw all kinds of crazy reasons given why the
LFBC must be a forgery. For example, there is
another LFBC out there for the same hospital, a
birth the next day or so. It's a standard
old-time copy, the kind I've gotten many times
when I've requested a copy of my birth
certificate (from 1944, Los Angeles). It's a
negative, there was a common method of making
cheap copies before xerography,
quasi-photographic. The recent copy provided by
the state to Obama for release is xerographic,
probably, or perhaps scanned and printed, on the
green security paper. Again, I think I've seen copies like that.

In addition, there is an issue of the serial
numbers. There seems to be an assumption that
births at the same hospital will necessarily be
serialized in order of birth. Nope. It depends on
exact procedures. I don't know the exact
proce

Re: [Vo]:Is Palladium a red herring?

 The wholesale fusion of multiple heavy atoms in their entierty as scene in
the LeClair reaction speaks against this idea.


Cheers:Axil





On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 8:58 PM, Harry Veeder  wrote:

> Similiar to Jones suggestion that the mass of a proton is just an
> average, perhaps the charge of a proton is just an average, so what
> takes place is a momentary reduction of charge instead of charge
> screening.
>
> harry
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 8:15 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
> > For 20 years, most cold fusion research was stymied by the traditional
> > belief of how fusion was supposed to work. There were a few others who
> > recognized that electron screening was lowering the coulomb barrier but
> > these workers were in the minority and not influential.
> >
> > Even E. Storms idea has electron screening as a root cause as a one
> > dimensional topological electron charge carrier.
> >
> > I has assumed that Rossi had changed his technology, be he still uses the
> > same approach he started out with so the nanotube idea is original to us
> > here at vortex and may in fact work as you suggest.
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers: Axil
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 7:59 PM, Kelley Trezise 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> I am sure P&F had hopes of seeing clear signs of fusion by packing as
> much
> >> hydrogen into a sample of palladium as possible but after their initial
> >> success it became apparent to them that the process was dicy, as in a
> >> collection of samples, some worked and some did not. It should have been
> >> obvious to them immediately that the alloying elements (impurities)
> and/or
> >> the crystal grains and work hardening effects also payed a role in the
> >> results. If Storms is correct then palladium may be completely
> unnecessary
> >> as is now obvious from the success with nickel. If it is the micro
> >> structural defects that provide the environment for the reaction to take
> >> place then any material that provides such a place be it tungsten, iron,
> >> cobalt, or what have you will suffice provided the hydrogen can make
> its way
> >> into the site. In the co-deposition of palladium and deuterium, the
> built up
> >> structure probably created the micro structural "defects" in abundance,
> >> hence it was not necessary to wait around while the packing of palladium
> >> into a bulk sample initiated cracks and created the necessary sites by
> crack
> >> propagation. (That is what hydrogen will do even to palladium) I am
> assuming
> >> here that there is no fusion of nickel with hydrogen but hydrogen to
> >> hydrogen, etc. Storms suggested that the reactions take place on the
> surface
> >> of a palladium sample, which is where the strains are highest in the
> case of
> >> a material with an internal pressure created by the loading of deutrium
> >> would be highest and as a result would be the place where cracking
> would be
> >> most developed and produce the most reaction sites. If nickel is
> central to
> >> the reaction then it is not necessary to have large quanties of nickel
> in
> >> the reactor just as in the case of no need for large qantities of
> hydrogen.
> >> The nickel could be built into the surface of a spongy mass of ceramic
> that
> >> simply provides a physical support to present the nickel itself in large
> >> enough quantites. In which case the temps can be driven even higher.
> >
> >
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Is Palladium a red herring?

2012-08-10 Thread Harry Veeder

Similiar to Jones suggestion that the mass of a proton is just an
average, perhaps the charge of a proton is just an average, so what
takes place is a momentary reduction of charge instead of charge
screening.

harry




On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 8:15 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
> For 20 years, most cold fusion research was stymied by the traditional
> belief of how fusion was supposed to work. There were a few others who
> recognized that electron screening was lowering the coulomb barrier but
> these workers were in the minority and not influential.
>
> Even E. Storms idea has electron screening as a root cause as a one
> dimensional topological electron charge carrier.
>
> I has assumed that Rossi had changed his technology, be he still uses the
> same approach he started out with so the nanotube idea is original to us
> here at vortex and may in fact work as you suggest.
>
>
>
> Cheers: Axil
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 7:59 PM, Kelley Trezise 
> wrote:
>>
>> I am sure P&F had hopes of seeing clear signs of fusion by packing as much
>> hydrogen into a sample of palladium as possible but after their initial
>> success it became apparent to them that the process was dicy, as in a
>> collection of samples, some worked and some did not. It should have been
>> obvious to them immediately that the alloying elements (impurities) and/or
>> the crystal grains and work hardening effects also payed a role in the
>> results. If Storms is correct then palladium may be completely unnecessary
>> as is now obvious from the success with nickel. If it is the micro
>> structural defects that provide the environment for the reaction to take
>> place then any material that provides such a place be it tungsten, iron,
>> cobalt, or what have you will suffice provided the hydrogen can make its way
>> into the site. In the co-deposition of palladium and deuterium, the built up
>> structure probably created the micro structural "defects" in abundance,
>> hence it was not necessary to wait around while the packing of palladium
>> into a bulk sample initiated cracks and created the necessary sites by crack
>> propagation. (That is what hydrogen will do even to palladium) I am assuming
>> here that there is no fusion of nickel with hydrogen but hydrogen to
>> hydrogen, etc. Storms suggested that the reactions take place on the surface
>> of a palladium sample, which is where the strains are highest in the case of
>> a material with an internal pressure created by the loading of deutrium
>> would be highest and as a result would be the place where cracking would be
>> most developed and produce the most reaction sites. If nickel is central to
>> the reaction then it is not necessary to have large quanties of nickel in
>> the reactor just as in the case of no need for large qantities of hydrogen.
>> The nickel could be built into the surface of a spongy mass of ceramic that
>> simply provides a physical support to present the nickel itself in large
>> enough quantites. In which case the temps can be driven even higher.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:the Coil

(*C12* is C12 in an excited state - it has an additional 15.96 MeV that it*
* *

*desperately wants to get rid of)*

This is only true when the coulomb barrier is up at full strength. But when
the coulomb barrier is completely down, protons behave like neutrons. They
can exit the nucleus with no energy penalty.

I explain this in the thread “the bumpy road.”


 Cheers:   Axil

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 8:24 PM,  wrote:

> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Fri, 10 Aug 2012 19:51:55 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >Sorry, please excuse me; I was thinking about the Triple alpha process:
> >
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Z0IPWmm7GDc
> >
> >
> >With Carbon 12 => Boron 11 (5 protons and 6 neutrons) with a proton
> emission
> >
> >
> >The net positive charge of the gas from proton emmision causes the back
> >current as seen coming comin from the electrodes as the gas contracts.
>
> The reaction 3*He4 => C12 yields 7.27 MeV. (Helium burning in stars).
>
> Removing a proton from C12 to produce B11 *costs* 15.96 MeV.
>
> Hence adding a proton to B11 with the ensuing production of 3 alpha
> particles
> produces 8.68 MeV.
>
> When the proton fuses with B11 it momentarily creates C12*, which usually
> splits
> into three alphas, but not always.
>
> (C12* is C12 in an excited state - it has an additional 15.96 MeV that it
> desperately wants to get rid of).
>
> >
> >
> >Cheers:   Axil
> >
> >
> >
> >On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 7:28 PM,  wrote:
> >
> >> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Fri, 10 Aug 2012 18:05:03 -0400:
> >> Hi,
> >> [snip]
> >> >This causes aneutronic
> >> >fusion of three helium atoms into Boron11 and a proton.
> >>
> >> This reaction doesn't happen. It's endothermic to the tune of about 8
> MeV.
> >> In
> >> fact the reverse reaction (p+B11 -> 3 * He4) is the dream of hot fusion
> >> scientists.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Robin van Spaandonk
> >>
> >> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
> >>
> >>
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>
>

Re: [Vo]:the Coil

2012-08-10 Thread mixent

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Fri, 10 Aug 2012 19:51:55 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>Sorry, please excuse me; I was thinking about the Triple alpha process:
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Z0IPWmm7GDc
>
>
>With Carbon 12 => Boron 11 (5 protons and 6 neutrons) with a proton emission
>
>
>The net positive charge of the gas from proton emmision causes the back
>current as seen coming comin from the electrodes as the gas contracts.

The reaction 3*He4 => C12 yields 7.27 MeV. (Helium burning in stars).

Removing a proton from C12 to produce B11 *costs* 15.96 MeV.

Hence adding a proton to B11 with the ensuing production of 3 alpha particles
produces 8.68 MeV. 

When the proton fuses with B11 it momentarily creates C12*, which usually splits
into three alphas, but not always.

(C12* is C12 in an excited state - it has an additional 15.96 MeV that it
desperately wants to get rid of).

>
>
>Cheers:   Axil
>
>
>
>On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 7:28 PM,  wrote:
>
>> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Fri, 10 Aug 2012 18:05:03 -0400:
>> Hi,
>> [snip]
>> >This causes aneutronic
>> >fusion of three helium atoms into Boron11 and a proton.
>>
>> This reaction doesn't happen. It's endothermic to the tune of about 8 MeV.
>> In
>> fact the reverse reaction (p+B11 -> 3 * He4) is the dream of hot fusion
>> scientists.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Robin van Spaandonk
>>
>> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>>
>>
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:AP Fleischmann obit

2012-08-10 Thread Alan J Fletcher



At 04:09 PM 8/10/2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:


http://www.scientificcomputing.com/news-DS-Cold-Fusion-Chemist-Martin-Fleischmann-Dies-at-85-080912.aspx
 
> Research on "cold fusion" persists on the fringes of the
scientific world. 
Psheeesh !!!

Re: [Vo]:Is Palladium a red herring?

For 20 years, most cold fusion research was stymied by the traditional
belief of how fusion was supposed to work. There were a few others who
recognized that electron screening was lowering the coulomb barrier but
these workers were in the minority and not influential.

Even E. Storms idea has electron screening as a root cause as a one
dimensional topological electron charge carrier.

I has assumed that Rossi had changed his technology, be he still uses the
same approach he started out with so the nanotube idea is original to us
here at vortex and may in fact work as you suggest.



 Cheers: Axil





On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 7:59 PM, Kelley Trezise wrote:

> **
> I am sure P&F had hopes of seeing clear signs of fusion by packing as much
> hydrogen into a sample of palladium as possible but after their initial
> success it became apparent to them that the process was dicy, as in a
> collection of samples, some worked and some did not. It should have been
> obvious to them immediately that the alloying elements (impurities) and/or
> the crystal grains and work hardening effects also payed a role in the
> results. If Storms is correct then palladium may be completely unnecessary
> as is now obvious from the success with nickel. If it is the micro
> structural defects that provide the environment for the reaction to take
> place then any material that provides such a place be it tungsten, iron,
> cobalt, or what have you will suffice provided the hydrogen can make its
> way into the site. In the co-deposition of palladium and deuterium, the
> built up structure probably created the micro structural "defects" in
> abundance, hence it was not necessary to wait around while the packing of
> palladium into a bulk sample initiated cracks and created the necessary
> sites by crack propagation. (That is what hydrogen will do even to
> palladium) I am assuming here that there is no fusion of nickel with
> hydrogen but hydrogen to hydrogen, etc. Storms suggested that the reactions
> take place on the surface of a palladium sample, which is where the strains
> are highest in the case of a material with an internal pressure created by
> the loading of deutrium would be highest and as a result would be the place
> where cracking would be most developed and produce the most reaction sites.
> If nickel is central to the reaction then it is not necessary to have large
> quanties of nickel in the reactor just as in the case of no need for large
> qantities of hydrogen. The nickel could be built into the surface of a
> spongy mass of ceramic that simply provides a physical support to present
> the nickel itself in large enough quantites. In which case the temps can be
> driven even higher.
>

[Vo]:Is Palladium a red herring?

2012-08-10 Thread Kelley Trezise

I am sure P&F had hopes of seeing clear signs of fusion by packing as much 
hydrogen into a sample of palladium as possible but after their initial success 
it became apparent to them that the process was dicy, as in a collection of 
samples, some worked and some did not. It should have been obvious to them 
immediately that the alloying elements (impurities) and/or the crystal grains 
and work hardening effects also payed a role in the results. If Storms is 
correct then palladium may be completely unnecessary as is now obvious from the 
success with nickel. If it is the micro structural defects that provide the 
environment for the reaction to take place then any material that provides such 
a place be it tungsten, iron, cobalt, or what have you will suffice provided 
the hydrogen can make its way into the site. In the co-deposition of palladium 
and deuterium, the built up structure probably created the micro structural 
"defects" in abundance, hence it was not necessary to wait around while the 
packing of palladium into a bulk sample initiated cracks and created the 
necessary sites by crack propagation. (That is what hydrogen will do even to 
palladium) I am assuming here that there is no fusion of nickel with hydrogen 
but hydrogen to hydrogen, etc. Storms suggested that the reactions take place 
on the surface of a palladium sample, which is where the strains are highest in 
the case of a material with an internal pressure created by the loading of 
deutrium would be highest and as a result would be the place where cracking 
would be most developed and produce the most reaction sites. If nickel is 
central to the reaction then it is not necessary to have large quanties of 
nickel in the reactor just as in the case of no need for large qantities of 
hydrogen. The nickel could be built into the surface of a spongy mass of 
ceramic that simply provides a physical support to present the nickel itself in 
large enough quantites. In which case the temps can be driven even higher.

Re: [Vo]:the Coil

sorry again, the proper link is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple-alpha_process


Cheers: Axil

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 7:51 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> Sorry, please excuse me; I was thinking about the Triple alpha process:
>
>
>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Z0IPWmm7GDc
>
>
> With Carbon 12 => Boron 11 (5 protons and 6 neutrons) with a proton
> emission
>
>
> The net positive charge of the gas from proton emmision causes the back
> current as seen coming comin from the electrodes as the gas contracts.
>
>
> Cheers:   Axil
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 7:28 PM,  wrote:
>
>> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Fri, 10 Aug 2012 18:05:03 -0400:
>> Hi,
>> [snip]
>> >This causes aneutronic
>> >fusion of three helium atoms into Boron11 and a proton.
>>
>> This reaction doesn't happen. It's endothermic to the tune of about 8
>> MeV. In
>> fact the reverse reaction (p+B11 -> 3 * He4) is the dream of hot fusion
>> scientists.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Robin van Spaandonk
>>
>> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:the Coil

Sorry, please excuse me; I was thinking about the Triple alpha process:


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Z0IPWmm7GDc


With Carbon 12 => Boron 11 (5 protons and 6 neutrons) with a proton emission


The net positive charge of the gas from proton emmision causes the back
current as seen coming comin from the electrodes as the gas contracts.


Cheers:   Axil



On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 7:28 PM,  wrote:

> In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Fri, 10 Aug 2012 18:05:03 -0400:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >This causes aneutronic
> >fusion of three helium atoms into Boron11 and a proton.
>
> This reaction doesn't happen. It's endothermic to the tune of about 8 MeV.
> In
> fact the reverse reaction (p+B11 -> 3 * He4) is the dream of hot fusion
> scientists.
>
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>
>

Re: [Vo]:the Coil

2012-08-10 Thread mixent

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Fri, 10 Aug 2012 18:05:03 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>This causes aneutronic
>fusion of three helium atoms into Boron11 and a proton.

This reaction doesn't happen. It's endothermic to the tune of about 8 MeV. In
fact the reverse reaction (p+B11 -> 3 * He4) is the dream of hot fusion
scientists.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

[Vo]:AP Fleischmann obit

2012-08-10 Thread Jed Rothwell

See:

http://www.scientificcomputing.com/news-DS-Cold-Fusion-Chemist-Martin-Fleischmann-Dies-at-85-080912.aspx

Re: [Vo]:Gas driven E-cat

No, that reactor is based upon my second theory of aliens farting thru a
wormhole...

My 1st theory is singularity evaporation from rydberg spears hitting each
other head on at tip of spear

On Friday, August 10, 2012, bertoldo arpagoni wrote:

> WOW! That's a  true astonishing achievement! The FART triggered ECAT! I
> bet that after this announcement the BEAN's stock market, aside the nickel
> one, is going to get a big boost on the near future. Let's see what's
> goin'on in Wall Street next Monday opening!
> Just matter of solve the smell issue but for the efficient chemical
> engineer Andrew Reds that's really a piece of cake.
>
> I'm suggesting this song to promote the new e-cat generation
>
> Beans, beans the musical fruit
> the more you eat
> the more you toot !
>
>
>
> 2012/8/10 Michele Comitini  'cvml', 'michele.comit...@gmail.com');>>
>
>> I suppose he is speaking of methane. No need for electrical power
>> anymore.   Seems that Rossi is leaving "competition" in the dust. Read
>> below.
>>
>>
>> http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=679&cpage=3#comment-299135
>>
>> Andrea Rossi
>> August 10th, 2012 at 11:54 AM
>> ...
>> We are very close to a 1 MW plant with high temperature steam and
>> electric power generation. Another important achievement , we got
>> today: we are able, now, to make the drive with gas instead of
>> electric power. This is extremely important, because now we are able
>> to make thermal energy with thermal energy, and with the thermal
>> energy produced we can make electric power. All this with 1 MW plants.
>> Warm Regards,
>> Andrea Rossi
>>
>>
>> mic
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test reactor

2012-08-10 Thread Jouni Valkonen

On 11 August 2012 01:48, MarkI-ZeroPoint  wrote:

> You guys are missing the big picture… what Rossi does now is immaterial.
> What he **did** is open the floodgates, and because of that, there are
> now enough high-level people aware of what the ENTIRE LENR/CF COMMUNITY has
> accomplished – namely, irrefutable proof that the excess heat is REAL,
> repeatability, evidence of energetic particles – i.e., some new physics
> that can likely be exploited for cheap clean energy.  That’s what’s
> important; that’s the BIG picture.  Large companies are also aware, and
> investment $ is beginning to flow… who the heck cares what Rossi does or
> does not do from here on?
>

That is true. Rossi has brought huge amounts of popularity for the cold
fusion (I still do not believe that there is solid evidence for
transmutations, expect helium production!), so his role has
been irreplaceable, even if he did it for his own hobby and gathered decent
money from his surroundings. I would say that it is because of Rossi,
Brillouin Energy and BLP have managed to raise some extra money for their
quest for clean energy, even if they will not find anything worthy for
publishing.

This argument against Rossi is however extremely strong, because he has
already done 14 trillion dollar damage to the world economy if he is hiding
commercially viable product. These are just too big money that anyone could
have moral sense to hide them from public. Therefore there is no more for
Rossi, what he has already presented.

  –Jouni

Re: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test reactor

2012-08-10 Thread noone noone

Rossi should not be put on trial for anything. The "establishment" that has 
suppressed cold fusion for the past twenty or so years should be put on trial! 
The way he ignored the "peer review" system is what allowed this technology to 
be rapidly developed. If he had played the "game" of the "official" scientific 
community (going to conferences, arguing with peer reviewers, spending all of 
his time writing letters to journals, and spending months to review the data 
from a single test) the hot cat would not even exist. 


By saying F-U to the cult like aspects of mainstream science, he has developed 
his technology in record time. 




 From: Kelley Trezise 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test reactor
 

  
Talk about hyperkinetic hyperbolie!! Rossi is 
a world class criminal! I suppose all those who have ever associated with him 
even in witnessing his tests (criminal activities) should be put on trial with 
him. I must admit to drifting in the direction of the increasingly less 
convinced mass. I will give him to the end of the year to present something 
substantial but I will never find myself in the class of those who resort to 
such over the top pronouncments.
 
 Jouni Valkonen 

>And if he has, then it would make Rossi the greatest criminal  in the history 
>of Earth because he has delayed the technology so long that it  has already 
>caused the death of hundreds of millions people due to not  enabling this to 
>enter the market properly.

Re: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test reactor

2012-08-10 Thread noone noone

What he did was do more than open the floodgates. He has developed a kilowatt 
class system while almost everyone else could only produce tens of watts. Now, 
he has a system that can also produce 1,000C degree temperatures that can allow 
for efficient conversion to electricity. His technology did not "open the flood 
gates", it is the flood! 

 From: MarkI-ZeroPoint 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 6:48 PM
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test reactor

Kelley/Jouni:
You guys are missing the big picture… what Rossi does now is immaterial.  What 
he *did* is open the floodgates, and because of that, there are now enough 
high-level people aware of what the ENTIRE LENR/CF COMMUNITY has accomplished – 
namely, irrefutable proof that the excess heat is REAL, repeatability, evidence 
of energetic particles – i.e., some new physics that can likely be exploited 
for cheap clean energy.  That’s what’s important; that’s the BIG picture.  
Large companies are also aware, and investment $ is beginning to flow… who the 
heck cares what Rossi does or does not do from here on?
-Mark

From:Kelley Trezise [mailto:ktrez2...@ssvecnet.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 3:13 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test reactor

Talk about hyperkinetic hyperbolie!! Rossi is a world class criminal! I suppose 
all those who have ever associated with him even in witnessing his tests 
(criminal activities) should be put on trial with him. I must admit to drifting 
in the direction of the increasingly less convinced mass. I will give him to 
the end of the year to present something substantial but I will never find 
myself in the class of those who resort to such over the top pronouncments.

 Jouni Valkonen 

>And if he has, then it would make Rossi the greatest criminal in the history 
>of Earth because he has delayed the technology so long that it has already 
>caused the death of hundreds of millions people due to not enabling this to 
>enter the market properly.

Re: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test reactor

2012-08-10 Thread noone noone

Rossi is NOT a criminal. He is an absolute hero for developing the world's 
first practical cold fusion technology. 

This technology is developing much faster than if he had went through 
"official" channels such as the cult-like peer review system. If he had wasted 
his time writing hundreds of papers, submitting them for peer review, arguing 
with reviewers, attending each and every conference, preparing countless power 
point presentations, and so fourth he would not have developed the "hot cat." 
He would still be working on his low temperature systems. Instead, he focused 
on developing the technology rapidly so it could become as useful as possible. 

Anyone who says he is a criminal is, at best, making a huge mistake. They are 
clueless about how the "mainstream" suppresses radical technologies. Heck, we 
even have one member on this list who thinks that the government should seize 
all of Rossi's technology, and lock it away in a secret research program for 
five years. 

 From: Axil Axil 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test reactor

It is hard to beleive.

Cheers:   Axil

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Kelley Trezise  wrote:

>Talk about hyperkinetic hyperbolie!! Rossi is 
a world class criminal! I suppose all those who have ever associated with him 
even in witnessing his tests (criminal activities) should be put on trial with 
him. I must admit to drifting in the direction of the increasingly less 
convinced mass. I will give him to the end of the year to present something 
substantial but I will never find myself in the class of those who resort to 
such over the top pronouncments.
> 
> Jouni Valkonen 
>
>>And if he has, then it would make Rossi the greatest criminal  in the history 
>>of Earth because he has delayed the technology so long that it  has already 
>>caused the death of hundreds of millions people due to not  enabling this to 
>>enter the market properly.

RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy

2012-08-10 Thread George Holz

Hi Mark,

Fourmilab.ch is John's web site. He has a vast range
of interests. He was president of Autodesk for decades.
He was IMO their best programmer as well. When he
left for Switzerland where he now lives his stock was 
worth 10's of millions. We have not been directly in touch for 
at least 20 years, but I see that the last update of the web 
site was last month. 

George

-Original Message-
From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 1:52 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy

Hi George,
Love the short-story, thx for providing the link.

Went browsing around Fourmilab.ch and found this, also by John Walker, in May 
of 1989:
   http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/sftriple/nanofuse.html

Is john still around? And if so, does he realize how prescient he was?

I wonder if it's in lenr.org

-Mark

RE: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test reactor

Kelley/Jouni:

You guys are missing the big picture… what Rossi does now is immaterial.  What 
he *did* is open the floodgates, and because of that, there are now enough 
high-level people aware of what the ENTIRE LENR/CF COMMUNITY has accomplished – 
namely, irrefutable proof that the excess heat is REAL, repeatability, evidence 
of energetic particles – i.e., some new physics that can likely be exploited 
for cheap clean energy.  That’s what’s important; that’s the BIG picture.  
Large companies are also aware, and investment $ is beginning to flow… who the 
heck cares what Rossi does or does not do from here on?

-Mark

 

From: Kelley Trezise [mailto:ktrez2...@ssvecnet.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 3:13 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test reactor

 

Talk about hyperkinetic hyperbolie!! Rossi is a world class criminal! I suppose 
all those who have ever associated with him even in witnessing his tests 
(criminal activities) should be put on trial with him. I must admit to drifting 
in the direction of the increasingly less convinced mass. I will give him to 
the end of the year to present something substantial but I will never find 
myself in the class of those who resort to such over the top pronouncments.

 

 Jouni Valkonen   

 

And if he has, then it would make Rossi the greatest criminal in the history of 
Earth because he has delayed the technology so long that it has already caused 
the death of hundreds of millions people due to not enabling this to enter the 
market properly.

Re: [Vo]:Gas driven E-cat

Notice that here is no radio frequency generators used now.


Cheers:   Axil

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 6:24 PM, David Roberson  wrote:

> I performed some simulations earlier and my results suggested that as long
> as you keep the COP to 6 or less, then the system will be stable with a
> heat type of control.  This matches the gas concept as long as he is
> careful not to overheat the device.
>
> I still see that Rossi always insists that the COP is limited to 6 and he
> has been asked if it would be larger on many occasions in his journal.
>
> Dave
>  -Original Message-
> From: Axil Axil 
> To: vortex-l 
> Sent: Fri, Aug 10, 2012 4:20 pm
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Gas driven E-cat
>
>  This implies no computer controls. The Rossi reaction must still be
> thermionic.
>
>  Cheers:Axil
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 4:01 PM, Michele Comitini <
> michele.comit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I suppose he is speaking of methane. No need for electrical power
>> anymore.   Seems that Rossi is leaving "competition" in the dust. Read
>> below.
>>
>>
>> http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=679&cpage=3#comment-299135
>>
>> Andrea Rossi
>> August 10th, 2012 at 11:54 AM
>> ...
>> We are very close to a 1 MW plant with high temperature steam and
>> electric power generation. Another important achievement , we got
>> today: we are able, now, to make the drive with gas instead of
>> electric power. This is extremely important, because now we are able
>> to make thermal energy with thermal energy, and with the thermal
>> energy produced we can make electric power. All this with 1 MW plants.
>> Warm Regards,
>> Andrea Rossi
>>
>>
>> mic
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test reactor

It is hard to beleive.

Cheers:   Axil

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Kelley Trezise wrote:

> **
> Talk about hyperkinetic hyperbolie!! Rossi is a world class criminal! I
> suppose all those who have ever associated with him even in witnessing his
> tests (criminal activities) should be put on trial with him. I must admit
> to drifting in the direction of the increasingly less convinced mass. I
> will give him to the end of the year to present something substantial but I
> will never find myself in the class of those who resort to such over the
> top pronouncments.
>
>  Jouni Valkonen 
>
>
> And if he has, then it would make Rossi the greatest criminal in the
> history of Earth because he has delayed the technology so long that it has
> already caused the death of hundreds of millions people due to not enabling
> this to enter the market properly.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Gas driven E-cat

2012-08-10 Thread David Roberson


I performed some simulations earlier and my results suggested that as long as 
you keep the COP to 6 or less, then the system will be stable with a heat type 
of control.  This matches the gas concept as long as he is careful not to 
overheat the device.

I still see that Rossi always insists that the COP is limited to 6 and he has 
been asked if it would be larger on many occasions in his journal.

Dave


-Original Message-
From: Axil Axil 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Fri, Aug 10, 2012 4:20 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Gas driven E-cat


Thisimplies no computer controls. The Rossi reaction must still bethermionic. 


Cheers:Axil


On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 4:01 PM, Michele Comitini  
wrote:

I suppose he is speaking of methane. No need for electrical power
anymore.   Seems that Rossi is leaving "competition" in the dust. Read
below.


http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=679&cpage=3#comment-299135

Andrea Rossi
August 10th, 2012 at 11:54 AM
...
We are very close to a 1 MW plant with high temperature steam and
electric power generation. Another important achievement , we got
today: we are able, now, to make the drive with gas instead of
electric power. This is extremely important, because now we are able
to make thermal energy with thermal energy, and with the thermal
energy produced we can make electric power. All this with 1 MW plants.
Warm Regards,
Andrea Rossi


mic

Re: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test reactor

2012-08-10 Thread Kelley Trezise

Talk about hyperkinetic hyperbolie!! Rossi is a world class criminal! I suppose 
all those who have ever associated with him even in witnessing his tests 
(criminal activities) should be put on trial with him. I must admit to drifting 
in the direction of the increasingly less convinced mass. I will give him to 
the end of the year to present something substantial but I will never find 
myself in the class of those who resort to such over the top pronouncments.

 Jouni Valkonen 


  And if he has, then it would make Rossi the greatest criminal in the history 
of Earth because he has delayed the technology so long that it has already 
caused the death of hundreds of millions people due to not enabling this to 
enter the market properly.

[Vo]:the Coil

 The question:
 Why is the axial confinement coil required in the papp engine. The Papp
reaction will not work without the coil.
The answer:
When the plasma is formed, the coil confines plasma into a very thin
conductive channel where one dimensional electron flow along the channel
makes the current superconductive. A electron screening cloud forms
together with Rydberg matter in the partial plasma. This causes aneutronic
fusion of three helium atoms into Boron11 and a proton.

This is consistent with the finding of a brown ash in the Papp engine as a
nuclear ash.

 Cheers:   Axil

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion GT at NIWeek2012 - Rydberg H

2012-08-10 Thread Alan J Fletcher



At 03:11 PM 8/9/2012, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote:
Thanks,
I perused it, but I'm not sure how Defkalion incorporates this into
their
proposed theory.  Does anyone have any insights?
-- Lou Pagnucco
> So's paper:
>

http://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid%3A53984973-1766-45cc-8bcf-055be714ed73/datastreams/THESIS01

Nothing directly, except from the introduction :
> It has been proposed that Rydberg
atoms could be used for nanoscale pattern deposition
on surfaces [6], especially as the spatial distribution of the Rydberg
atoms could be
controlled using low-intensity standing wave laser fields [6] or
inhomogeneous electric
fields [7, 8]
and the fact that Rydberg H's are well-behaved (reproducible, and conform
to theory) in the vicinity of a metal surface.
Defkalion suggest that suitable magic elements in their Ni mix can
guide the RSH's to the Active Nuclear Sites -- maybe by creating
 inhomogeneous electric fields.
Papers 7,8 control the distance of Rydberg atoms from the surface,
not their position parallel to the surface.
[7] T. Breeden and H. Metcalf. Stark Acceleration of Rydberg Atoms in
Inhomogeneous Electric Fields. Phys. Rev. Lett. 47, 1726
(1981). 
[8] E. Vliegen and F. Merkt,
Phys. Rev.
Lett.,
97
(3), 033002 (2006).

http://physics.aps.org/story/v18/st3
So also uses two lasers (VHF and UVHF) to set up the Rydberg states
... maybe related to Hagelstein's two-laser "beat frequency"
stimulation. (Hagelstein wasn't the first to use this, but I just closed
my browser window on one of his papers).

Re: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test reactor

2012-08-10 Thread ecat builder

Thanks for the translation, Akira...

For those interested, I believe the source is here:
http://www.cobraf.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=5747&reply_id=123482996#123482996
Chrome seems to be the best browser for automatic translation.

- Brad

Re: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test reactor

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Akira Shirakawa
 wrote:
> Hello group,
>
> Have a look at the following photo and the attached technical information.

http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/08/rossi-now-able-to-use-gas-not-electric-to-drive-e-cat/

T

Re: [Vo]:something about plasma

Yep, Francis.  It's looking more and more like Jones is spot on and
Mills has missed the boat.  What is it now, $70 M with no supportable
IP.  The lawyers will profit when all is said and done with a
conclusion that all has been in the public domain for decades.

T

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 5:31 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson
 wrote:
> Terry sez:
>
>> A real programmer would have called it an "undocumented feature".
>
> Back in the mid 1980s, at the Space Astronomy Lab, University of
> Wisconsin, where I worked as a ground support computer programmer, we
> would just say: Everything is nominal.

LOL!  We engineers considered specifications with the trailer ".nom"
to be hogwash.  "In name only."

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nominal?s=t

T

Re: [Vo]:something about plasma

When a plasma cools, it degrades to Rydberg matter. Rydberg atoms, and
molecules and crystals are  one of several means of focusing and
concentrating electron screening which lowers the coulomb barrie.

Cheers: Axil


On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Roarty, Francis X <
francis.x.roa...@lmco.com> wrote:

>  Plasma is in all the anomalies, although it may be at the nanoscale in
> wet cells, it is obvious in sonoluminescence /sono fusion, Mill’s black
> light process, noble gas engine and the early contenders like the MAHG. I
> recall being ridiculed early on for suggesting that Casimir geometries
> could ever be responsible for the sort of energy levels being claimed and I
> suggested that the fractional hydrogen could fit into ever smaller spacing
> between plates as it became ever smaller and fractionalized. In the Noble
> gas engine there is no solid geometry and it occurred to me that Mill’s
> position about the black light plasma being self catalyzed depending on the
> state could be dead on correct… a scenario where both the plates [in the
> form of gaseous menisci] are already shrunk [fractional] and the gases
> trapped between become even further fractionalized as a result..the
> surrounding lattice geometry and gas loading would be just the bootstrap
> requirements while the different layers of fractional plasma  may take us
> to  the same level of  swirling vortices being reported for superconductors
> . 
>

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy

2012-08-10 Thread OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson

Terry sez:

> A real programmer would have called it an "undocumented feature".

Back in the mid 1980s, at the Space Astronomy Lab, University of
Wisconsin, where I worked as a ground support computer programmer, we
would just say: Everything is nominal.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 3:46 PM, Michele Comitini
 wrote:
> “Quantum nonlocality is a bug.”
>
> :-)

A real programmer would have called it an "undocumented feature".

T

[Vo]:something about plasma

2012-08-10 Thread Roarty, Francis X

Plasma is in all the anomalies, although it may be at the nanoscale in wet 
cells, it is obvious in sonoluminescence /sono fusion, Mill's black light 
process, noble gas engine and the early contenders like the MAHG. I recall 
being ridiculed early on for suggesting that Casimir geometries could ever be 
responsible for the sort of energy levels being claimed and I suggested that 
the fractional hydrogen could fit into ever smaller spacing between plates as 
it became ever smaller and fractionalized. In the Noble gas engine there is no 
solid geometry and it occurred to me that Mill's position about the black light 
plasma being self catalyzed depending on the state could be dead on correct... 
a scenario where both the plates [in the form of gaseous menisci] are already 
shrunk [fractional] and the gases trapped between become even further 
fractionalized as a result..the surrounding lattice geometry and gas loading 
would be just the bootstrap requirements while the different layers of 
fractional plasma  may take us to  the same level of  swirling vortices being 
reported for superconductors .

Re: [Vo]:Gas driven E-cat

2012-08-10 Thread bertoldo arpagoni

WOW! That's a  true astonishing achievement! The FART triggered ECAT! I bet
that after this announcement the BEAN's stock market, aside the nickel one,
is going to get a big boost on the near future. Let's see what's goin'on in
Wall Street next Monday opening!
Just matter of solve the smell issue but for the efficient chemical
engineer Andrew Reds that's really a piece of cake.

I'm suggesting this song to promote the new e-cat generation

Beans, beans the musical fruit
the more you eat
the more you toot !



2012/8/10 Michele Comitini 

> I suppose he is speaking of methane. No need for electrical power
> anymore.   Seems that Rossi is leaving "competition" in the dust. Read
> below.
>
>
> http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=679&cpage=3#comment-299135
>
> Andrea Rossi
> August 10th, 2012 at 11:54 AM
> ...
> We are very close to a 1 MW plant with high temperature steam and
> electric power generation. Another important achievement , we got
> today: we are able, now, to make the drive with gas instead of
> electric power. This is extremely important, because now we are able
> to make thermal energy with thermal energy, and with the thermal
> energy produced we can make electric power. All this with 1 MW plants.
> Warm Regards,
> Andrea Rossi
>
>
> mic
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy


At 08:42 PM 8/9/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote:

Baloney.  This is your opinion proffered as law.

Nothing more than a bunch of BS.  A Natural Born US citizen is one 
with both US citizen parents and born on US soil.  Period.  Stop the lies.


That opinion was rejected more than a hundred years ago.

There are some interesting legal issues here, but they are utterly of 
no practical consequence. The position that both parents must be "US 
citizens" is utterly without foundation, it's made up.


The case of a U.S. Citizen mother and a non-citizen father, with the 
child born outside the U.S., is a marginal one and it's not clear how 
a court would decide. Does the law in effect in 1961 apply? If later 
law essentially defines "natural born" differently -- as it does --, 
does this reach back and define as "natural born" for purposes of the 
constitutional requirement, according to the current definition?


Some statements I've seen of the current law imply that it is not 
retroactive, so if this is true, then Obama would not be a natural 
born citizen, since his mother was three months short of her 19th 
birthday, which is the age required under the old law for the birth 
to be automatic citizenship.


Jojo seems to be requiring that the constitutional provision have 
some kind of "original intepretation," but it's entirely unclear what 
that was. The original clause, from what I've seen, was inserted at 
the last minute and without explanation.


What I've been asserting is what a U.S. court would be likely to 
decide, based on precedent. Jojo seems to belong to a 
"fundamentalist" school of law, that presumes that there is some 
"constitutional law" that exists separately from how the courts 
interpret it. And anyone who sides with the court's actual 
interpretation, as confirmed over, say, more than a century, is a liar.


It's fanaticism, pure and simple.

The marginal case is irrelevant, because Obama will be considered by 
any court, unless someone pulls a rabbit out of a hat, as being born 
in the U.S., specifically in Hawaii, in 1961. It's established by the 
required documentation, and anyone who thinks that the courts will 
disregard the documentation, absent a clear showing of fraud, is 
seriously deluded.


The U.S. Supreme Court has, to my chagrin, made decisions that were 
motivated by results rather than the facts and law and precedent in a 
case, but a decision removing a sitting President based on what has 
been alleged is far, far worse than anything I've ever seen them do. 
Even if it were actually shown that Obama were born in Kenya, for 
example, the Court would be highly likely to refuse the case, citing 
res judicata, that the matter was decided by Congress in certifying 
the election results. Congress has the right -- and responsibility -- 
to consider eligibility.


Congress could also impeach, if there was Presidential misbehavior 
involved, and forging documents would probably be considered 
misbehavior. That is a reason why the forgery is exrremely unlikely. 
It's difficult to imagine anything that might be on the document that 
would be worth risking his presidency over. People have claimed that 
the father might be different, and that he couldn't stand the heat of 
that. Highly unlikely, folks, even if it were true.


(On the other hand, I'd have thought that a sitting President was 
constitutionally protected from prosecution, and the Court, not so 
long ago, allowed a sitting president to be thoroughly harassed over 
matters that were entirely distracting from the business of the Presidency.)


Notice how the birther claims are essentially all over the map. 
What's consistent about them is that "there is something wrong."


There usually is, if you look hard enough. That is, you can always 
find something that *looks wrong.* It just takes persistence. Look at 
what I found about the long form. All kinds of ridiculous claims, 
presented as if they established some kind of strong suspicion of 
"wrong." And nothing more there than the kinds of oddities that commonly occur.

Re: [Vo]:Gas driven E-cat

This implies no computer controls. The Rossi reaction must still be
thermionic.


 Cheers:Axil

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 4:01 PM, Michele Comitini <
michele.comit...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I suppose he is speaking of methane. No need for electrical power
> anymore.   Seems that Rossi is leaving "competition" in the dust. Read
> below.
>
>
> http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=679&cpage=3#comment-299135
>
> Andrea Rossi
> August 10th, 2012 at 11:54 AM
> ...
> We are very close to a 1 MW plant with high temperature steam and
> electric power generation. Another important achievement , we got
> today: we are able, now, to make the drive with gas instead of
> electric power. This is extremely important, because now we are able
> to make thermal energy with thermal energy, and with the thermal
> energy produced we can make electric power. All this with 1 MW plants.
> Warm Regards,
> Andrea Rossi
>
>
> mic
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test reactor

The SCAM that is based on a real system is more effective than one that is
not. A working prototype is a life long meal ticket.

If the technology is released, the easy money comes to an end. The inventor
is moved out of the picture by the big money interests.

One must not confuse the SCAM with the system, these two things must be
considered separately with one not diminishing the other.



 Cheers: Axil




On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 4:01 PM, Jouni Valkonen wrote:

> I myself are starting to see a pattern here. There are again two wire
> conducting more than enough electricity to the device.
> Some intended measurement error here and some other there, and pretty soon
> we are talking real heat. They all follow the same pattern that can easily
> hide a fraud inside. It seems that the input electric wires are more
> important than the actual quantum reactor.
>
> I would say that there is zero probability that Rossi has anything that is
> even nearing the commercial viability. And if he has, then it would make
> Rossi the greatest criminal in the history of Earth because he has delayed
> the technology so long that it has already caused the death of hundreds of
> millions people due to not enabling this to enter the market properly.
>
> I guess that Rossi is already making very good money, because he has time
> to engineer these kinds of unpractical electric heaters.
>
> –Jouni
>
>
> On 10 August 2012 22:28, Peter Gluck  wrote:
>
>> The context of this story is interesting. Plus the material problems.
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy


At 08:40 PM 8/9/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote:

Weapons-grade Balonium

Everyone with half a brain cell knows that what 
he released was faked.  But I guess I can 
forgive you because you don't have half a brain cell.


Attempting to use my quarter-cell, I wasted an 
entire day researching the birther claims. Let's 
say that Jojo's position appears to be that 
anyone who agrees with the strong majority of 
experts and commentators is stupid.


The evidence out there had me going for a short 
time. I found some stuff by Miss Tickle that 
seemed to show clear evidence of image 
alteration. I did suspect it, but, hey, it looked 
bad! So I checked it out further. Yes. I could 
see in the originals presented by Miss Tickle 
that the image was a jpeg and had been through 
lossy compression. I didn't know the specifics of 
this to be sure about the effect, but I did 
somewhat suspect that sections of the image, say 
the check boxes, were identical to other 
sections, at the pixel level, as being caused by 
the compression algorithm. I.e., one image of a 
box was repeated as being considered by the 
algorithm, as sufficiently identical to allow the 
transmission of a single image that is repeated.


So the real story: the images released were 
compressed. Like, that was obvious from a quick 
glance. If you look at the text on the LFBC, 
you'll see a halo around the text. That's an 
artifact of compression. If the image were not 
compressed, those images would be huge. 
Compressing images is routine in web 
presentations. I don't know if an uncompressed 
scan is available. Ideally, it should be. Lossy 
compression was used, because it is more 
effective. It's also possible that the images 
were enhanced to improve legibility.


But the real point is entirely missed. Legally, 
it's not the image that counts, it is the 
certification of the public official that the 
document is a true copy. If someone was taking 
such a certified document and altering it, 
presenting it publically, to obtain an advantage, 
that would probably be a felony, and one very easily established.


To obtain a legal right, one would have to 
present the original signed and sealed document. 
I've been through this. Copies are completely 
inadequate, unless themselves certified under 
oath (and thus penalty of perjury). You can't get 
a passport, for example, by presenting an 
uncertified copy of a birth certificate. You need 
a certified copy, with the state seal and an original official signature.


I saw all kinds of crazy reasons given why the 
LFBC must be a forgery. For example, there is 
another LFBC out there for the same hospital, a 
birth the next day or so. It's a standard 
old-time copy, the kind I've gotten many times 
when I've requested a copy of my birth 
certificate (from 1944, Los Angeles). It's a 
negative, there was a common method of making 
cheap copies before xerography, 
quasi-photographic. The recent copy provided by 
the state to Obama for release is xerographic, 
probably, or perhaps scanned and printed, on the 
green security paper. Again, I think I've seen copies like that.


In addition, there is an issue of the serial 
numbers. There seems to be an assumption that 
births at the same hospital will necessarily be 
serialized in order of birth. Nope. It depends on 
exact procedures. I don't know the exact 
procedure, and even if I did, there would be no 
guarantee that this procedure was actually 
followed in 1961 in this particular case. Clerks 
do all kinds of irregular things, and all they 
really care about with the serial numbers is that 
no two birth certificates have the same number. 
Sequence is legally meaningless, so no major 
effort is put into it. Once you realize that the 
number on the certificate is not the sequence of 
birth, that the numbers are state-assigned and 
that births are coming in from many hospitals and 
other sources (not all babies are born in 
hospitals) and that registration of births can be 
substantially delayed, both within and without 
the law, the numbers really don't mean anything.


The birthers are able to assert a huge pile of 
"signs" that the birth certificate(s) are bogus. 
These assertions are contradictory to each other. 
For example, the name of the hospital is claimed 
to be an anachronism, in one set of birther 
claims, while others show the twin births at the 
same hospital and allege the problem with serial 
number sequence, and still others claim that the 
twin birth certificates are themselves forgeries, 
because the mother was allegedly a communist, or something like that.


Sane conservatives have long ago abandoned the 
birther myth. We are, here, not dealing with a 
sane conservative. We are dealing with a fanatic.


You say that the Vault BC can not be obtained 
easily.  You say they do not have procedures for 
getting the real Long Form Vault BC.  You say this are not publicly accessible.


That's been noted by the official in charge. 
However, there are also i

[Vo]:Gas driven E-cat

2012-08-10 Thread Michele Comitini

I suppose he is speaking of methane. No need for electrical power
anymore.   Seems that Rossi is leaving "competition" in the dust. Read
below.


http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=679&cpage=3#comment-299135

Andrea Rossi
August 10th, 2012 at 11:54 AM
...
We are very close to a 1 MW plant with high temperature steam and
electric power generation. Another important achievement , we got
today: we are able, now, to make the drive with gas instead of
electric power. This is extremely important, because now we are able
to make thermal energy with thermal energy, and with the thermal
energy produced we can make electric power. All this with 1 MW plants.
Warm Regards,
Andrea Rossi


mic

Re: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test reactor

2012-08-10 Thread Jouni Valkonen

I myself are starting to see a pattern here. There are again two wire
conducting more than enough electricity to the device.
Some intended measurement error here and some other there, and pretty soon
we are talking real heat. They all follow the same pattern that can easily
hide a fraud inside. It seems that the input electric wires are more
important than the actual quantum reactor.

I would say that there is zero probability that Rossi has anything that is
even nearing the commercial viability. And if he has, then it would make
Rossi the greatest criminal in the history of Earth because he has delayed
the technology so long that it has already caused the death of hundreds of
millions people due to not enabling this to enter the market properly.

I guess that Rossi is already making very good money, because he has time
to engineer these kinds of unpractical electric heaters.

–Jouni

On 10 August 2012 22:28, Peter Gluck  wrote:

> The context of this story is interesting. Plus the material problems.
> Peter
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:The Collective's long-term memory...

Yes,

Bill changed archiving sites at that time due to performance or cost,
don't remember which.

You could search the old archives and find out which!  ;-)

T

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 3:13 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint  wrote:
> Hey Jones, SVJ, Fran, Terry…
>
>
>
> I just sent a personal email to Bill… but he is so busy it might be weeks
> before I hear from him!
>
>
>
> The online web-searchable DB seems to start at 1/1/2002… is there any
> reason, other than noone having time, why older messages aren’t in the same
> DB?  I will probably regret this, but I might be willing to devote some time
> to write some S/W to D/L the older archives, scan them, spit out a file that
> can be imported into current DB… What DB is being used for the current msg
> store?  Just trying to get ALL of the Collective’s memories into one mind!
>
>
>
> -Mark
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Some ICCF-17 papers posted on New Energy Times

2012-08-10 Thread Rich Murray

http://newenergytimes.com/v2/conferences/2012/ICCF17/ICCF-17-Mosier-Boss-Its-Not-Low-Energy-Paper.pdf
free full text report 6 pages

PA Mosier-Boss does not explicitly discuss previous claims of
anomalous results when a 6 KV  DC external field is applied to
external plates just outside codeposition cells for runs of about 3
weeks -- also having a about 6% AC component, frequency not given, via
a high voltage circuit from a TV.

The most recent citation listed is 2009...


http://iccf17.org/popup/bio_12.htm

Dr. Pamela A. Mosier-Boss is a visiting scientist at MIT. She has
conducted research in the area of low energy nuclear reactions (LENR)
for the past 23 years. In this research, she and her colleagues have
employed the co-deposition process that was pioneered by Dr. Stanislaw
Szpak. In the co-deposition process, palladium is electroplated onto a
metal substrate in the presence of evolving deuterium gas. The
resultant palladium nanoparticles load instantly with deuterium
achieving the high D/Pd loadings and high deuterium flux inside the
lattice to initiate LENR. Using the co-deposition process, Mosier-Boss
and her colleagues have reported on the production of excess heat,
tritium, transmutation, charged particles, and neutrons. These results
have been published in over 29 peer-reviewed journal articles.

In addition to her research in LENR, Mosier-Boss has conducted
research on high energy batteries for propulsion, drag reducing
polymers, anti-fouling polymers, and environmental sensor work at a
renowned Federal research center. She has investigated the use of
phage for bacterial detection and surface enhanced Raman spectroscopy
for the detection of chemical contaminants such as perchlorate,
hexavalent chromium, and chlorinated solvents. She has also been
involved in the development of direct push sensors to map out
subsurface plumes of heavy metals and petroleum.



SPAWAR has yet to respond re simple error in claims of effects of
external high voltage dc fields inside a conducting electrolyte: Rich
Murray 2012.03.01
http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2012/03/spawar-has-yet-to-respond-re-simple.html
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/94

http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/03/01/spawar-lenr-research-background-information/#comments

http://newenergytimes.com/v2/government/NAVY/20120207SPAWAR-JWK-Synopsis-of-Refereed-LENR-Publications.pdf

Synopsis of Refereed LENR Publications
P.A. Mosier-Boss, F.E. Gordon and S. Szpak
SPAWAR Systems Center-Pacific, San Diego, CA 92152
L.P.G. Forsley 1, J.W. Khim
JWK International, Annandale, VA 22003
1  larryfors...@gmail.com

"Subsequent papers examined elemental transmutation, effects of
external fields, and measurements of fast neutron energy and their
source."


SPAWAR CR-39 single triple track gives neutron energy -- repeats
'external electric field' error in July EPJAP paper, PA Mosier-Boss et
al -- L Kowalski re lack of proof of nuclear reactions 2010.06.12:
Rich Murray 2010.07.21
http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2010/07/spawar-cr-39-single-triple-track-gives.html
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/56


Extraordinary Error -- no electric field exists inside a conducting
liquid in an insulated box with two external charged metal plates, re
work by SPAWAR on cold fusion since 2002 -- also hot spots from H and
O microbubbles: Rich Murray 2010.02.22
http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2010/02/extraordinary-error-no-electric-field.html
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/42


http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2010/03/re-vo-reply-to-rich-murray-on-electric.html//


Rich Murray,
MA Boston University Graduate School 1967 psychology,
BS MIT 1964 history and physics,
254-A Donax Avenue, Imperial Beach, CA 91932
rmfor...@gmail.com
505-819-7388
Skype audio, video rich.murray11

http://RMForAll.blogspot.com
new primary archive

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AstroDeep/messages

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rmforall/messages

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/aspartameNM/messages
group with 117 members, 1,641 posts in a public archive

Re: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy

2012-08-10 Thread Michele Comitini

“Quantum nonlocality is a bug.”

:-)

mic

2012/8/10 George Holz :
>
> Hi Steven (SVJ) and Michele,
>
> John Walker was very helpful to me in the early days of Autodesk.
> In those days John was Autodesk.
> We shared a strong interest in microcomputer based graphics.
> I particularly like his short story Einstein, Heisenberg, and Tipler.
>
> http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/eht.html
>
> George Holz
> Varitronics Systems
> geo...@varisys.com
>
>
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test reactor

Akira translates perfectly always, I just wanted to see some
terms.
The context of this story is interesting. Plus the material problems.
Peter

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 10:24 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:

> Peter,
> Please double check Akira's translation to verify correctness...
>
> It's obviously VERY hot (north of 800C according to the text); can those
> small-guage wires sustain that kind of heat all by themselves?
>
> -Mark
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Akira Shirakawa [mailto:shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 11:48 AM
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test
> reactor
>
> On 2012-08-10 20:46, Peter Gluck wrote:
> > dear Akira
> >
> > can you send me the original Italian text?
> > thanks!
>
> Sent to your email address.
>
> Cheers,
> S.A.
>
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion GT at NIWeek2012

I am naughty and sleepy but please give a few details/proofs. You have told
a lot about Rydberg atoms and I think you know it better than me.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> Dear Peter you are naughty. For one who adheres to EGO OUT, you temp me
> sorely.
>
>
> Cheers:  Axil
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 2:52 PM, Peter Gluck wrote:
>
>> Being in their place, position, would you say what the agents are-
>> exactly?
>>  By the way, "who" is greatest world authority in Rydberg Hydrogen?
>> Peter
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 9:45 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>>> Take note:
>>>
>>> *We use several layers of “agents”, coated around a Si-Al ceramic
>>> surface surrounding the nickel foam, to help RSH atoms to survive this
>>> journey. Some of these agents are ZnO, MgO and ZrO2.*
>>>
>>> They don't say what all the agents are.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Peter Gluck wrote:
>>>
 What is happening now is that for the first time the products of the
 reaction(s) and their variation as a function of time and of other
 parameters can be analysed systematically.
 There are real possibilities to discover what happens, and a lot of
 unexpected things happen. It is not a simple system made of only nickel and
 hydrogen.
 Peter


 On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 9:17 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> At this juncture, it is near impossible to tell what the exact nuclear
> mechanism is at play in the DGT reaction.
>
> The Piantelli based compound neutron mechanism has no support that I
> can see and is just a guess.
>
> Even the details of Rydberg matter mechanism is a guess, The matter
> could be potassium or calcium or both with the addition of hydrogen.
>
> The tools are not there yet to tell for sure.
>
> But what is likely happening is electron screening of the positive
> nuclear coulomb barrier which is true in all other LENR reactions.
>
>
>  Cheers: Axil
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Terry Blanton wrote:
>
>> Potassium and zirconium.  Magic sauce!
>>
>> As expected.
>>
>> T
>>
>>
>


 --
 Dr. Peter Gluck
 Cluj, Romania
 http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com


>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Peter Gluck
>> Cluj, Romania
>> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>>
>>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

RE: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test reactor

Peter, 
Please double check Akira's translation to verify correctness...

It's obviously VERY hot (north of 800C according to the text); can those
small-guage wires sustain that kind of heat all by themselves?

-Mark

-Original Message-
From: Akira Shirakawa [mailto:shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 11:48 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test
reactor

On 2012-08-10 20:46, Peter Gluck wrote:
> dear Akira
>
> can you send me the original Italian text?
> thanks!

Sent to your email address.

Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion GT at NIWeek2012

 Dear Peter you are naughty. For one who adheres to EGO OUT, you temp me
sorely.


Cheers:  Axil


On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 2:52 PM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

> Being in their place, position, would you say what the agents are- exactly?
>  By the way, "who" is greatest world authority in Rydberg Hydrogen?
> Peter
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 9:45 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> Take note:
>>
>> *We use several layers of “agents”, coated around a Si-Al ceramic
>> surface surrounding the nickel foam, to help RSH atoms to survive this
>> journey. Some of these agents are ZnO, MgO and ZrO2.*
>>
>> They don't say what all the agents are.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Peter Gluck wrote:
>>
>>> What is happening now is that for the first time the products of the
>>> reaction(s) and their variation as a function of time and of other
>>> parameters can be analysed systematically.
>>> There are real possibilities to discover what happens, and a lot of
>>> unexpected things happen. It is not a simple system made of only nickel and
>>> hydrogen.
>>> Peter
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 9:17 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>>
 At this juncture, it is near impossible to tell what the exact nuclear
 mechanism is at play in the DGT reaction.

 The Piantelli based compound neutron mechanism has no support that I
 can see and is just a guess.

 Even the details of Rydberg matter mechanism is a guess, The matter
 could be potassium or calcium or both with the addition of hydrogen.

 The tools are not there yet to tell for sure.

 But what is likely happening is electron screening of the positive
 nuclear coulomb barrier which is true in all other LENR reactions.


  Cheers: Axil




 On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Terry Blanton wrote:

> Potassium and zirconium.  Magic sauce!
>
> As expected.
>
> T
>
>

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dr. Peter Gluck
>>> Cluj, Romania
>>> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
> Cluj, Romania
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>
>

RE: [Vo]:The Collective's long-term memory...

Hey Jones, SVJ, Fran, Terry.

 

I just sent a personal email to Bill. but he is so busy it might be weeks
before I hear from him!

 

The online web-searchable DB seems to start at 1/1/2002. is there any
reason, other than noone having time, why older messages aren't in the same
DB?  I will probably regret this, but I might be willing to devote some time
to write some S/W to D/L the older archives, scan them, spit out a file that
can be imported into current DB. What DB is being used for the current msg
store?  Just trying to get ALL of the Collective's memories into one mind! 

 

-Mark

[Vo]:The Collective's long-term memory...

Because Vortex-l was mentioned and linked to by people commenting at various
websites in the last year, we have many new minds in the Collective.. that's
good!  Due to its very purpose of discussing the fringes of science and
technology, it has at least looked under every stone, and in some cases may
have even turned the stone over and poked around in the dirt!  It's archives
are completely open, and can be searched here:

   http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=vortex-l@eskimo.com
 &a=1

 

Or if you want you can download them; just scroll down until you get to them
here..

   http://amasci.com/weird/wvort.html

 

For example, if one does a search for 'Papp', one gets 110 hits going back
to 2005:

http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=vortex-l@eskimo.com

&a=1&from=&subject=&haswords=Papp¬words=&datewithin=1d&date=&order=datene
west&start=100

And Papp has been around since at least the mid-80s, and I'm sure that he
was discussed at length prior to 2005, but apparently the web-interface can
only search back to '05.  One would need to search the downloadable archives
for further messages.

 

So please make use of the Collective's long-term memory if you want to know
more about a topic.

 

-Mark

Re: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test reactor

Grazie!

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Akira Shirakawa
wrote:

> On 2012-08-10 20:46, Peter Gluck wrote:
>
>> dear Akira
>>
>> can you send me the original Italian text?
>> thanks!
>>
>
> Sent to your email address.
>
> Cheers,
> S.A.
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion GT at NIWeek2012

Being in their place, position, would you say what the agents are- exactly?
 By the way, "who" is greatest world authority in Rydberg Hydrogen?
Peter

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 9:45 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> Take note:
>
> *We use several layers of “agents”, coated around a Si-Al ceramic surface 
> surrounding
> the nickel foam, to help RSH atoms to survive this journey. Some of these
> agents are ZnO, MgO and ZrO2.*
>
> They don't say what all the agents are.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Peter Gluck wrote:
>
>> What is happening now is that for the first time the products of the
>> reaction(s) and their variation as a function of time and of other
>> parameters can be analysed systematically.
>> There are real possibilities to discover what happens, and a lot of
>> unexpected things happen. It is not a simple system made of only nickel and
>> hydrogen.
>> Peter
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 9:17 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>>> At this juncture, it is near impossible to tell what the exact nuclear
>>> mechanism is at play in the DGT reaction.
>>>
>>> The Piantelli based compound neutron mechanism has no support that I can
>>> see and is just a guess.
>>>
>>> Even the details of Rydberg matter mechanism is a guess, The matter
>>> could be potassium or calcium or both with the addition of hydrogen.
>>>
>>> The tools are not there yet to tell for sure.
>>>
>>> But what is likely happening is electron screening of the positive
>>> nuclear coulomb barrier which is true in all other LENR reactions.
>>>
>>>
>>>  Cheers: Axil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Terry Blanton wrote:
>>>
 Potassium and zirconium.  Magic sauce!

 As expected.

 T


>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Peter Gluck
>> Cluj, Romania
>> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>>
>>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test reactor


On 2012-08-10 20:46, Peter Gluck wrote:

dear Akira

can you send me the original Italian text?
thanks!


Sent to your email address.

Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test reactor

dear Akira

can you send me the original Italian text?
thanks!

Peter


On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 9:23 PM, Akira Shirakawa
wrote:

> Hello group,
>
> Have a look at the following photo and the attached technical information.
> These come from a quite reliable inside source who was allowed to "leak"
> some data and information about Rossi's 1200 °C test E-Cat core currently
> under testing. This was originally in Italian language, any error in
> translation is my fault.
>
> * * *
>
> http://i.imgur.com/4XlY2.jpg
>
> [The reactor] is composed of two coaxial steel cylinders. The internal
> space between the two cylinders contains an electrical heating resistance
> and the reaction chamber with the active material. The cylinder bases are
> sealed with heat resistant sealant for blast furnace use. Pressure sealing
> is not needed. The whole has been painted in black to increase emissivity
> and can withstand 1200 °C.
>
> The photo shows a phase of the measurements
>
> At the time of this photo, the average outer surface temperature was 801
> °C, with local hot spots of 873 °C. The inner surface temperature ranged
> from 1100 °C to over 1200 °C. Two electrical heating resistances in
> parallel (the 4 visible cables). Value of the resistances in parallel: 6
> Ohm. AC (50 Hz) input voltage of 147 Volts. Current consumption 24.25
> Ampere. Power consumption 3.56 kW. Heat power irradiated by both inner and
> outer walls, assumed equal for a total of 13.39 kW, including the average
> ambient temperature of 35 °C.
> Inner wall of bright white color, unapproachable under 1 meter of distance
> because of hot air flow. Outer wall measured by thermal camera with 2%
> measurement precision. Inner wall measurement by laser thermometer from a
> 1.2 meter distance by the shaky hand of a person who didn't want to get
> cooked.
> Conservative, rounded down values due to heat taken off by convective flow
> estimated to be at least 8% on the outer wall and low irradiation cosine
> for the inner wall due to high irradiation angle toward laser thermometer
> (pointing almost in axis with the inner cylinder).
> Stable reaction, without strange happenings. Virtually boring.
>
> COP raises when 1000 °C are exceeded on the outer wall. [Fuel] consumption
> is that of a [nuclear] fusion reaction, that is, almost nonexistent. A
> proper estimate would require to turn the thing on and then taking a very
> long vacation before verifying the actual consumption.
>
> For the sake of completeness, it should be noted that data are preliminary
> and that inner cylinder measurements will have to be remade with less shaky
> methods than a laser thermometer, in order to improve results as it's a
> delicate measurement, since the inner surface is in contact with the air
> heated by the surface itself.
>
>
> * * *
>
> Cheers,
> S.A.
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion GT at NIWeek2012

Take note:

*We use several layers of “agents”, coated around a Si-Al ceramic
surface surrounding
the nickel foam, to help RSH atoms to survive this journey. Some of these
agents are ZnO, MgO and ZrO2.*

They don't say what all the agents are.




On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

> What is happening now is that for the first time the products of the
> reaction(s) and their variation as a function of time and of other
> parameters can be analysed systematically.
> There are real possibilities to discover what happens, and a lot of
> unexpected things happen. It is not a simple system made of only nickel and
> hydrogen.
> Peter
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 9:17 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> At this juncture, it is near impossible to tell what the exact nuclear
>> mechanism is at play in the DGT reaction.
>>
>> The Piantelli based compound neutron mechanism has no support that I can
>> see and is just a guess.
>>
>> Even the details of Rydberg matter mechanism is a guess, The matter could
>> be potassium or calcium or both with the addition of hydrogen.
>>
>> The tools are not there yet to tell for sure.
>>
>> But what is likely happening is electron screening of the positive
>> nuclear coulomb barrier which is true in all other LENR reactions.
>>
>>
>>  Cheers: Axil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:
>>
>>> Potassium and zirconium.  Magic sauce!
>>>
>>> As expected.
>>>
>>> T
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
> Cluj, Romania
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>
>

Re: [Vo]:No energy balance on Papp engine, no faith

The anomaly that John Rohner discovered is amazing and instructive.

The collapse of the plasma can be delayed and the energy stored in it is
received and converted to heat in a coil outside of the reaction chamber.
The is no emf detected.

I think it is quantum decoherence process of a nuclear reaction in a
superposition state delocalized in the mettal lattice of the copper coil.

See


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Z0IPWmm7GDc





On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> From: Kelley Trezise
>
> Long time lurker. Hope I'm using this correctly. Looked at
> the video of the Papp Engine and just thought I might add that I am always
> a
> little ill at ease when I don't see an energy balance on a system that
> people are claiming to produce net energy out. I saw Rossi's rough data
> from
> last year and as it had the blessing of two physicists I was able to show
> some faith in him and his system, however strange his behavior and
> outlandish the claims. But here I see little but some guys in a garage
> building another magical magnetic motor thingy with no data backing up
> their
> claims.
>
> Yes, all the red flags of the typical free energy scam are there -
> including
> the glaring lack of data, unsubstantiated hype and reliance on anecdote. No
> sophisticated investor would get near this one.
>
> However, the larger and more interesting question for Vorticians probably
> goes to the issue of "heat engines" in general, or lack thereof in this
> instance.
>
> This version of Papp is apparently not a heat engine and does not depend on
> an external heat sink for a Carnot spread, but instead is claimed to
> operate
> in an unknown thermodynamic regime. Yet no one in the history of science
> has
> demonstrated conclusively that a gainful non-heat engine is feasible in the
> real world - for continued operation (aside from gravity power which is
> always lossy).
>
> Note: You can always get a single impressive "pop" from a plasma
> discharge... which these guys love to demo. Ironic in a way ! since the
> real
> Papp pronounced his name "pop".
>
> Here is a newish site claiming to have such a cold engine:
> http://www.kuostech.com/?page_id=6
> Long on promise and short on data... sound familiar?
>
> In past years on this forum - whenever Papp came up, as it has dozens of
> times, the known concept of "entropic explosion" is usually mentioned. This
> is a type chemical explosive which does not release heat during the
> explosion, so it is entropic. It has the potential to be a cold engine,
> except for a few details. Like gravity, it operates in a hole, so to speak.
>
> Almost always with entropic explosions, peroxides are involved. One type is
> common for automotive safety "airbags" where the rapid expansion of gases
> must be kept cool to protect the passengers.
>
> If this version of the Papp engine works at all, even unreliably but for
> more than one or two pops, it will likely be via either an entropic
> explosion of DCE. Now they have to get by with a hidden electric motor (the
> kind Feynman thought he was unplugging)
>
> But there is also Casimir cooling. The DCE or dynamical Casimir effect can
> operate as a heat sink, so who knows? Dirac named his "sea," which what
> some
> now refer to as ZPE, as a "negative energy" field.
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion GT at NIWeek2012

What is happening now is that for the first time the products of the
reaction(s) and their variation as a function of time and of other
parameters can be analysed systematically.
There are real possibilities to discover what happens, and a lot of
unexpected things happen. It is not a simple system made of only nickel and
hydrogen.
Peter

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 9:17 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> At this juncture, it is near impossible to tell what the exact nuclear
> mechanism is at play in the DGT reaction.
>
> The Piantelli based compound neutron mechanism has no support that I can
> see and is just a guess.
>
> Even the details of Rydberg matter mechanism is a guess, The matter could
> be potassium or calcium or both with the addition of hydrogen.
>
> The tools are not there yet to tell for sure.
>
> But what is likely happening is electron screening of the positive nuclear
> coulomb barrier which is true in all other LENR reactions.
>
>
>  Cheers: Axil
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:
>
>> Potassium and zirconium.  Magic sauce!
>>
>> As expected.
>>
>> T
>>
>>
>

-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

[Vo]:Detailed inside information about Rossi's 1000C test reactor


Hello group,

Have a look at the following photo and the attached technical 
information. These come from a quite reliable inside source who was 
allowed to "leak" some data and information about Rossi's 1200 °C test 
E-Cat core currently under testing. This was originally in Italian 
language, any error in translation is my fault.


* * *

http://i.imgur.com/4XlY2.jpg

[The reactor] is composed of two coaxial steel cylinders. The internal 
space between the two cylinders contains an electrical heating 
resistance and the reaction chamber with the active material. The 
cylinder bases are sealed with heat resistant sealant for blast furnace 
use. Pressure sealing is not needed. The whole has been painted in black 
to increase emissivity and can withstand 1200 °C.


The photo shows a phase of the measurements

At the time of this photo, the average outer surface temperature was 801 
°C, with local hot spots of 873 °C. The inner surface temperature ranged 
from 1100 °C to over 1200 °C. Two electrical heating resistances in 
parallel (the 4 visible cables). Value of the resistances in parallel: 6 
Ohm. AC (50 Hz) input voltage of 147 Volts. Current consumption 24.25 
Ampere. Power consumption 3.56 kW. Heat power irradiated by both inner 
and outer walls, assumed equal for a total of 13.39 kW, including the 
average ambient temperature of 35 °C.
Inner wall of bright white color, unapproachable under 1 meter of 
distance because of hot air flow. Outer wall measured by thermal camera 
with 2% measurement precision. Inner wall measurement by laser 
thermometer from a 1.2 meter distance by the shaky hand of a person who 
didn't want to get cooked.
Conservative, rounded down values due to heat taken off by convective 
flow estimated to be at least 8% on the outer wall and low irradiation 
cosine for the inner wall due to high irradiation angle toward laser 
thermometer (pointing almost in axis with the inner cylinder).

Stable reaction, without strange happenings. Virtually boring.

COP raises when 1000 °C are exceeded on the outer wall. [Fuel] 
consumption is that of a [nuclear] fusion reaction, that is, almost 
nonexistent. A proper estimate would require to turn the thing on and 
then taking a very long vacation before verifying the actual consumption.


For the sake of completeness, it should be noted that data are 
preliminary and that inner cylinder measurements will have to be remade 
with less shaky methods than a laser thermometer, in order to improve 
results as it's a delicate measurement, since the inner surface is in 
contact with the air heated by the surface itself.



* * *

Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion GT at NIWeek2012

At this juncture, it is near impossible to tell what the exact nuclear
mechanism is at play in the DGT reaction.

The Piantelli based compound neutron mechanism has no support that I can
see and is just a guess.

Even the details of Rydberg matter mechanism is a guess, The matter could
be potassium or calcium or both with the addition of hydrogen.

The tools are not there yet to tell for sure.

But what is likely happening is electron screening of the positive nuclear
coulomb barrier which is true in all other LENR reactions.

 Cheers: Axil

On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:

> Potassium and zirconium.  Magic sauce!
>
> As expected.
>
> T
>
>

Re: [Vo]:No energy balance on Papp engine, no faith

Sorry, this is the proper link:

http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue51/papp.html


On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> Welcome, Kelley Trezise, great to have your participation here at Vortex.
>
>
>  Take note. The engine was not connected to electric power when it
> exploded. See the article in total.
>
>
>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWJNyoFgJM&feature=related
>
>
>
>
>  Apart from the intense contemporary work to resurrect the Papp
> engine in its full cycling functionality and the independent certification
> test in 1983 (see p. 9), what other proof is there that Papp's engine was
> for real? Sad to say, this evidence is the death of one person and the
> severe injury of three others at a public demonstration of the engine on
> November 18, 1968 in Gardena, California. At that event, the engine
> exploded with an evident energy release that no internal combustion engine
> could touch. Read the eyewitness testimony of engineer Cecil Baumgartner
> (p. 31) in my interview with him this year. He was representing the top
> management of the TRW aerospace corporation that day. The previous month
> (on October 27, 1968) Baumgartner and others had observed one of the
> detonation cylinders of the engine test fired in the California desert. In
> full public view, just a few cubic centimeters of noble gas had been
> admitted with a hypodermic needle to the sparking chamber, and this made
> the thick steel-walled chamber peel back like a banana when the device was
> electrically triggered. The collaborating observers from the Naval
> Underseas Warfare Laboratory (as the Pasadena, California lab was then
> called), who attended the desert test, had earlier sealed the chamber so
> that Papp or others could not insert illicit explosives as part of a hoax.
> Their names, according to Baumgartner, were: William White, Edmund Karig,
> and James Green.
>
>
>
>  Cheers: Axil
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Kelley Trezise 
> wrote:
>
>> **
>>  Long time lurker. Hope I'm using this correctly. Looked at the video of
>> the Papp Engine and just thought I might add that I am always a little ill
>> at ease when I don't see an energy balance on a system that people are
>> claiming to produce net energy out. I saw Rossi's rough data from last year
>> and as it had the blessing of two physicists I was able to show some faith
>> in him and his system, however strange his behavior and outlandish the
>> claims. But here I see little but some guys in a garage building another
>> magical magnetic motor thingy with no data backing up their claims.
>>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy

Hi George,
Love the short-story, thx for providing the link.

Went browsing around Fourmilab.ch and found this, also by John Walker, in May 
of 1989:
   http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/sftriple/nanofuse.html

Is john still around? And if so, does he realize how prescient he was?

I wonder if it's in lenr.org

-Mark


-Original Message-
From: George Holz [mailto:geh...@optonline.net] 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 9:26 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy


Hi Steven (SVJ) and Michele,

John Walker was very helpful to me in the early days of Autodesk.
In those days John was Autodesk.
We shared a strong interest in microcomputer based graphics.
I particularly like his short story Einstein, Heisenberg, and Tipler.

http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/eht.html

George Holz 
Varitronics Systems
geo...@varisys.com


>

RE: [Vo]:No energy balance on Papp engine, no faith

2012-08-10 Thread Jones Beene

From: Kelley Trezise 

Long time lurker. Hope I'm using this correctly. Looked at
the video of the Papp Engine and just thought I might add that I am always a
little ill at ease when I don't see an energy balance on a system that
people are claiming to produce net energy out. I saw Rossi's rough data from
last year and as it had the blessing of two physicists I was able to show
some faith in him and his system, however strange his behavior and
outlandish the claims. But here I see little but some guys in a garage
building another magical magnetic motor thingy with no data backing up their
claims. 

Yes, all the red flags of the typical free energy scam are there - including
the glaring lack of data, unsubstantiated hype and reliance on anecdote. No
sophisticated investor would get near this one.

However, the larger and more interesting question for Vorticians probably
goes to the issue of "heat engines" in general, or lack thereof in this
instance. 

This version of Papp is apparently not a heat engine and does not depend on
an external heat sink for a Carnot spread, but instead is claimed to operate
in an unknown thermodynamic regime. Yet no one in the history of science has
demonstrated conclusively that a gainful non-heat engine is feasible in the
real world - for continued operation (aside from gravity power which is
always lossy). 

Note: You can always get a single impressive "pop" from a plasma
discharge... which these guys love to demo. Ironic in a way ! since the real
Papp pronounced his name "pop". 

Here is a newish site claiming to have such a cold engine:
http://www.kuostech.com/?page_id=6
Long on promise and short on data... sound familiar? 

In past years on this forum - whenever Papp came up, as it has dozens of
times, the known concept of "entropic explosion" is usually mentioned. This
is a type chemical explosive which does not release heat during the
explosion, so it is entropic. It has the potential to be a cold engine,
except for a few details. Like gravity, it operates in a hole, so to speak.

Almost always with entropic explosions, peroxides are involved. One type is
common for automotive safety "airbags" where the rapid expansion of gases
must be kept cool to protect the passengers. 

If this version of the Papp engine works at all, even unreliably but for
more than one or two pops, it will likely be via either an entropic
explosion of DCE. Now they have to get by with a hidden electric motor (the
kind Feynman thought he was unplugging)

But there is also Casimir cooling. The DCE or dynamical Casimir effect can
operate as a heat sink, so who knows? Dirac named his "sea," which what some
now refer to as ZPE, as a "negative energy" field. 


<>

Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy

2012-08-10 Thread LORENHEYER

If a large percentage of Politicians, Banker, Financier, etc., etc., either 
already has engaged in corrption and/or have a 10% chance they *would*,,, 
then Obama is 110% absolutely the most power/money-hungry bribing scheming 
corrupt Illegal illegitimateindividual (of the heard mentality kind) to 
ever serve as President and/or Comandeer & Thief  of this once proud, but 
truly gullible naive Country.   
 
  Brainwash'em and/or say 
things they desperately want to hear, then take everything they own and/or 
eliminate them completely is the prime directive of most wannabe Ruling 
Dictators "Now, with your help, we can Fundamentally destroy, err, uhh, I 
mean 
Transform America! ".  Vote for me, or else!!!, er, uhh, I mean, or else you'll 
just end up with the same old politicians that only continue to get 
wealthier, while all you poor suckers get poorer.   " Now, we can share the 
wealth, 
and make me the Richest Ruler Ever!!!,,, err, uhh, I mean make this Country 
More Prosperous Than Ever!"   Thank you!!!  

It's about 
time, because we've all worked so hard over the years to get to this point, and 
there ain't no going back now,,, well, at least not until after the total 
collapse of civilization. 

<< There are many questions about Obama's past. >>

Re: [Vo]:No energy balance on Papp engine, no faith

Welcome, Kelley Trezise, great to have your participation here at Vortex.

 Take note. The engine was not connected to electric power when it
exploded. See the article in total.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zWJNyoFgJM&feature=related

 Apart from the intense contemporary work to resurrect the Papp engine
in its full cycling functionality and the independent certification test in
1983 (see p. 9), what other proof is there that Papp's engine was for real?
Sad to say, this evidence is the death of one person and the severe injury
of three others at a public demonstration of the engine on November 18,
1968 in Gardena, California. At that event, the engine exploded with an
evident energy release that no internal combustion engine could touch. Read
the eyewitness testimony of engineer Cecil Baumgartner (p. 31) in my
interview with him this year. He was representing the top management of the
TRW aerospace corporation that day. The previous month (on October 27,
1968) Baumgartner and others had observed one of the detonation cylinders
of the engine test fired in the California desert. In full public view,
just a few cubic centimeters of noble gas had been admitted with a
hypodermic needle to the sparking chamber, and this made the thick
steel-walled chamber peel back like a banana when the device was
electrically triggered. The collaborating observers from the Naval
Underseas Warfare Laboratory (as the Pasadena, California lab was then
called), who attended the desert test, had earlier sealed the chamber so
that Papp or others could not insert illicit explosives as part of a hoax.
Their names, according to Baumgartner, were: William White, Edmund Karig,
and James Green.

 Cheers: Axil

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Kelley Trezise wrote:

> **
>  Long time lurker. Hope I'm using this correctly. Looked at the video of
> the Papp Engine and just thought I might add that I am always a little ill
> at ease when I don't see an energy balance on a system that people are
> claiming to produce net energy out. I saw Rossi's rough data from last year
> and as it had the blessing of two physicists I was able to show some faith
> in him and his system, however strange his behavior and outlandish the
> claims. But here I see little but some guys in a garage building another
> magical magnetic motor thingy with no data backing up their claims.
>

RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy

2012-08-10 Thread George Holz


Hi Steven (SVJ) and Michele,

John Walker was very helpful to me in the early days of Autodesk.
In those days John was Autodesk.
We shared a strong interest in microcomputer based graphics.
I particularly like his short story Einstein, Heisenberg, and Tipler.

http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/eht.html

George Holz 
Varitronics Systems
geo...@varisys.com


>

RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy

2012-08-10 Thread Roarty, Francis X

Not sure if this is relevant but have wondered if the same discount to 
disassociation I am positing for fractional molecules being moved between 
different suppression regions /geometries would also exist for molecules moved 
between different inertial frames like the event horizon in your simulation and 
normal space-time. My point being Casimir force / suppression are doing exactly 
the same manipulation of the isotropy that we normally attribute to the square 
law of gravity only at a much faster cube law rate when the geometry is 
correct.. I know DiFiore et all were unable to accumulate any gravitational 
effects with their stacked cavity experiments but a relativistic interpretation 
of Casimir effect would lead one to view the effect as a "segregation" and the 
concentration of the suppressed area inside the cavity is balanced by a much 
weaker but larger region where the isotropy is instead enhanced. This would 
cancel out the gravitational bias they were attempting to generate. I think 
they needed to introduce gas and confinement schemes in this environment 
because the size and shape of gas atoms will lend an inherent bias to which 
type of suppression regions the gas prefers to migrate through and once the gas 
is loaded there isn't a price to "circulate" the gas between regions - it is 
provided by nature - the same force that keeps gas from freezing at absolute 
zero and which can't be exploited in normal space can be harnessed when you 
have these sudden breaches in isotropy. 
Fran



-Original Message-
From: OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson [mailto:orionwo...@charter.net] 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 8:54 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Noble Gas Plasma Engine: inside piccy

> Look at this:
> http://www.fourmilab.ch/gravitation/orbits/
>
> the result is very similar to your simulations.

Thanks Michele. 

Yes, I've generated simulations very similar to what is shown here. This 
particular run looks to me as if the algorithm used 1/r^3 (a cube value) to 
generate the orbital plot. When I ran those type of formulas I noticed it was 
extremely difficult to achieve a stable orbital period. Typically the satellite 
would spiral out of control in no time. The tracks left reminded me of the 
vapor trails one observes in a cloud chamber.

The graphic showing the Effective Potential is very revealing. I recently 
"re-discovered" that phenomenon as well. You can plot orbital periods on a time 
plot based on Effective Potential rules. I think an individual named Miles 
Mathis noticed something similar to this as well. He wrote about it in his 
self-published book. However, IMHO, I think Miles got his facts wrong! Many 
think he is a crank.

This is a very informative web site. Thanks!

Terry, other runs & algorithms I've experimented with imitate something akin to 
what looks like an electron cloud much more than this example. There is s 
much more to do. I've only scratched the surface.

Mark, Kinkade recently died of an overdose of taking prescription drugs 
presumably from pain he was experiencing. I hope he is in a better place now. 
Perhaps when he recycles back he will be an artist one more time, but this time 
he will allow himself to follow his heart as compared to following his bank 
account. I thought Kinkade was a talented artist who ended up wasting the bulk 
of his talent churning out the same theme over and over. Well, he made a ton of 
money, but I wonder if he was really all that happy.

Dave, as for me I've tried to keep my plots very simple, involving just a 
single attractive gravitational nucleus and a single orbiting satellite. But 
look at the incredible complexity I've stumbled across working with just two 
objects! I've often wondered what it would be like to plot an entire solar 
system. Looks like you worked more on the macro level whereas I'm currently 
working more on a micro/atomic level. 

More to do... more to do... scurry, scurry scurry!

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

[Vo]:No energy balance on Papp engine, no faith

2012-08-10 Thread Kelley Trezise

Long time lurker. Hope I'm using this correctly. Looked at the video of the 
Papp Engine and just thought I might add that I am always a little ill at ease 
when I don't see an energy balance on a system that people are claiming to 
produce net energy out. I saw Rossi's rough data from last year and as it had 
the blessing of two physicists I was able to show some faith in him and his 
system, however strange his behavior and outlandish the claims. But here I see 
little but some guys in a garage building another magical magnetic motor thingy 
with no data backing up their claims.

Re: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Some ICCF-17 papers posted on New Energy Times


On 2012-08-10 17:38, Roarty, Francis X wrote:

Nice catch Mark .. that is more like where she belongs than SPAWAR - they could 
give her a pittance and she would feel well funded compared to the shoestring 
budget she has been on.


This is Krivit's explanation for that:

http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/08/10/17th-international-conference-on-cold-fusion-next-week/


[...] Pamela-Mosier Boss will be presenting a paper at ICCF-17, but because of 
recent management decisions at SPAWAR, she is not permitted to work in the 
field anymore as a SPAWAR employee, though she can do so on her own time. For 
this reason, she has made arrangements to list her affiliation as MIT, through 
the help of her colleague, LENR theorist Peter Hagelstein.


Cheers,
S.A.

RE: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Some ICCF-17 papers posted on New Energy Times

2012-08-10 Thread Roarty, Francis X

Nice catch Mark .. that is more like where she belongs than SPAWAR - they could 
give her a pittance and she would feel well funded compared to the shoestring 
budget she has been on.
Fran

-Original Message-
From: MarkI-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 11:09 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:Some ICCF-17 papers posted on New Energy Times

Did you guys and gals notice where Pamela Mosier-Boss's address was???
  -- Research Laboratory of Electronics, Massachusetts Institute of Technology
-Mark

-Original Message-
From: Akira Shirakawa [mailto:shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 6:08 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Some ICCF-17 papers posted on New Energy Times

Hello group,

Have a look here for some papers by various authors to be presented during 
ICCF-17:

http://newenergytimes.com/v2/conferences/2012/ICCF17/ICCF-17.shtml

Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:Some ICCF-17 papers posted on New Energy Times

2012-08-10 Thread Rich Murray

http://newenergytimes.com/v2/conferences/2012/ICCF17/ICCF-17-Mosier-Boss-Its-Not-Low-Energy-Paper.pdf
free full text report 6 pages

The most recent citation listed is 2009...

http://iccf17.org/popup/bio_12.htm

Dr. Pamela A. Mosier-Boss is a visiting scientist at MIT. She has
conducted research in the area of low energy nuclear reactions (LENR)
for the past 23 years. In this research, she and her colleagues have
employed the co-deposition process that was pioneered by Dr. Stanislaw
Szpak. In the co-deposition process, palladium is electroplated onto a
metal substrate in the presence of evolving deuterium gas. The
resultant palladium nanoparticles load instantly with deuterium
achieving the high D/Pd loadings and high deuterium flux inside the
lattice to initiate LENR. Using the co-deposition process, Mosier-Boss
and her colleagues have reported on the production of excess heat,
tritium, transmutation, charged particles, and neutrons. These results
have been published in over 29 peer-reviewed journal articles.

In addition to her research in LENR, Mosier-Boss has conducted
research on high energy batteries for propulsion, drag reducing
polymers, anti-fouling polymers, and environmental sensor work at a
renowned Federal research center. She has investigated the use of
phage for bacterial detection and surface enhanced Raman spectroscopy
for the detection of chemical contaminants such as perchlorate,
hexavalent chromium, and chlorinated solvents. She has also been
involved in the development of direct push sensors to map out
subsurface plumes of heavy metals and petroleum.

Re: [Vo]:Some ICCF-17 papers posted on New Energy Times

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 11:09 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint  wrote:
> Did you guys and gals notice where Pamela Mosier-Boss's address was???
>   -- Research Laboratory of Electronics, Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Just visiting:

http://iccf17.org/popup/bio_12.htm

T

RE: [Vo]:Some ICCF-17 papers posted on New Energy Times

Did you guys and gals notice where Pamela Mosier-Boss's address was???
  -- Research Laboratory of Electronics, Massachusetts Institute of Technology
-Mark

-Original Message-
From: Akira Shirakawa [mailto:shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 6:08 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Some ICCF-17 papers posted on New Energy Times

Hello group,

Have a look here for some papers by various authors to be presented during 
ICCF-17:

http://newenergytimes.com/v2/conferences/2012/ICCF17/ICCF-17.shtml

Cheers,
S.A.

[Vo]:TG(I)F

I am grateful it is Friday; but, the subject here is terrestrial
gamma-ray flashes.  Firefly is a stack of three CubeSats designed to
determine if lightning can create gamma-rays by accelerating electrons
to near relativistic speeds:

http://firefly.siena-space.org/

T

Re: [Vo]:Answer to Peter Gluck's open letter to ICCF-17

Thanks Akira,

I am working on my paper comments re the Defkalion presentations of
yesterday and I wanted to
inform my colleagues/friends of both publications at once.
I am writing a bit slowly, Hadjichristos' paper is complex.
But I think it is even more important than complex. New Wave in LENR.

Peter

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Akira Shirakawa
wrote:

> Hello group,
>
> Peter Gluck posted on his blog an answer to his "Open Letter to ICCF-17"
> [1] by Prof. Sunwon Park [2] and Dr. Frank Gordon [3], ICCF-17 lead
> organizers. Since he linked that here on Vortex-L and hasn't done so yet
> for its answer, I thought it might be useful for this community to do it in
> his place:
>
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.**com/2012/08/answer-to-my-open-**
> letter-yo-iccf-17.html
>
> Cheers,
> S.A.
>
> [1] http://egooutpeters.blogspot.**com/2012/08/open-letter-to-**
> iccf-17.html
> [2] http://cbe.kaist.ac.kr/bbs/**view.php?no=22&board_id=bbs21&**
> category=&pagenum=&search=**subject&key_word=&page=30&**board_type=board
> [3] http://iccf17.org/popup/bio_1.**htm
>
>

-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

[Vo]:Answer to Peter Gluck's open letter to ICCF-17


Hello group,

Peter Gluck posted on his blog an answer to his "Open Letter to ICCF-17" 
[1] by Prof. Sunwon Park [2] and Dr. Frank Gordon [3], ICCF-17 lead 
organizers. Since he linked that here on Vortex-L and hasn't done so yet 
for its answer, I thought it might be useful for this community to do it 
in his place:


http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com/2012/08/answer-to-my-open-letter-yo-iccf-17.html

Cheers,
S.A.

[1] http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com/2012/08/open-letter-to-iccf-17.html
[2] 
http://cbe.kaist.ac.kr/bbs/view.php?no=22&board_id=bbs21&category=&pagenum=&search=subject&key_word=&page=30&board_type=board

[3] http://iccf17.org/popup/bio_1.htm

[Vo]:Some ICCF-17 papers posted on New Energy Times