Abd,
The answer to the question why there aren't any isothermal curves in the
phase change area? is exactly the consequence of your experiments with the
steam calculator: at constant pressure the temperature does not change. So
if you change one the other follows linearly.
If you look on
svedesi è stato il seguente: Testo 176 H2 codice 0572 1766.
Distinti saluti.
From: Michele Comitini
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 7:43 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Re: [e-cat] Engineer from delta ohm confirms that galantini
instrument is useless
I cannot find where Galantini
Let me get this simple to you. You are WRONG.
There is the probe and there is the instrument itself. The instrument itself
just responds to whatever analogical electric signals the probe sends. And
it is basically a calculator and makes stores this signuals The instrument
is called
: Friday, August 05, 2011 3:38 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: [e-cat] Engineer from delta ohm confirms that galantini
instrument is useless
Let me get this simple to you. You are WRONG.
There is the probe and there is the instrument itself. The instrument itself
just responds
Any probe that measures temperature in boiling water system measures
also pressure. That is because boiling point of water is directly
depended on pressure.
- Jouni
2011/8/5 Mattia Rizzi mattia.ri...@gmail.com:
Daniel, *you* are wrong!
The ONLY *preassure* probe that can be connected is
By knowing the RH, you will know the steam quality, adding temperature and
output, you will find the pressure inside the chamber.
.
-Messaggio originale-
From: Jouni Valkonen
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 4:17 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: [e-cat] Engineer from delta ohm confirms that
galantini instrument is useless
Any probe that measures temperature in boiling water system measures
also pressure
: Re: [Vo]:Re: [e-cat] Engineer from delta ohm confirms that galantini
instrument is useless
By knowing the RH, you will know the steam quality, adding temperature and
output, you will find the pressure inside the chamber.
*Literature.
From: Mattia Rizzi
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 4:34 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Re: [e-cat] Engineer from delta ohm confirms that galantini
instrument is useless
Again, Galantini said that he *measured* the preassure. There’s a big
difference between a calculation
Yes, he measured the pressure. He doesn't need an instrument specific for
that. You don't need an instrument for every data you want to find. For
example, even in any big particle colliders you don't see all of the
resulting colliding particles. You reconstruct the the trajectories and the
energy
There is no need for literature. If you have 1bar or less and any
temperature above 100C, with 0% RH, you have no liquid water in any kind of
gas, even if that gas is steam.
THE
E-CAT
any temperature above 100C
That’s the only measuremnt correct, temperature. ANd with a 100.1-101
temperature, there will be likely a very WET steam
From: Daniel Rocha
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 4:51 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: [e-cat] Engineer from delta ohm
2011/8/5 Mattia Rizzi mattia.ri...@gmail.com:
They claims that tehy have measured a temperature 100 C degrees and a
pression equal to ambient preassure, so they claims that the steam is dry.
They may claim whatever they want, but it is impossible that there is
ambient pressure, since E-Cat is
The probe can work util 150C. It doesn't need to be that one that measure
pressure directly.
Daniel you lost me a cople messages ago. Is this a circular demostration ?
*The steam is dry because P = 1bar and P = 1 bar because the steam is dry ?*
Is this you saying ?
P, T and Dryness are three values tied together by one law (mollier diagram)
tho know one you need the other two. We do know
This is the reason why you need to know only one measured variable
from E-Cat and that is the temperature of steam.
You need also RH to make sure there is no mist.
No, not a circular demonstration. Steam is dry because P=1bar, and T100
cosidering that the measured RH=0.
from delta ohm confirms that
galantini instrument is useless
2011/8/5 Mattia Rizzi mattia.ri...@gmail.com:
They claims that tehy have measured a temperature 100 C degrees and a
pression equal to ambient preassure, so they claims that the steam is dry.
They may claim whatever they want
But if you say RH=0, it is dry. If there is mist it will point a non null
RH, if there is bubbling, there will probably be a short circuit and the
value of RH will saturate or very wildly.
2011/8/5 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com:
This is the reason why you need to know only one measured variable
from E-Cat and that is the temperature of steam.
You need also RH to make sure there is no mist.
Mist does not contribute for the pressure and hence the temperature of
boiling
No, you misunderstood me. I am talking about the need for the RH quantity,
to make sure that there isn't enough liquid mass to invalidate the output
power.
2011/8/5 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com:
I am talking about the need for the RH quantity,
to make sure that there isn't enough liquid mass to invalidate the output
power.
This kind of setup, that there is no liquid mass with steam, is
impossible, because it is not stable. Water inflow must
I just read about relative humidity. It I was wrong about the measurement of
RH. It will be 1 all the time given the measured steam above, without, is
already saturated steam. So, only the T will make sense.
The high powered tests were done with a lot of liquid water instead of
showing steam.
At 01:43 PM 8/4/2011, Michele Comitini wrote:
I cannot find where Galantini declared that he
used the RH reading on the datalogger. Did he declare that?
He used the g/m^3 reading, which is a calculated
reading. I believe that this reading does
consider pressure, if the information is
On 11-08-05 11:00 AM, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
Also
it is even more impossible that steam temperature is above boiling
point of local pressure.
Heavens, Jouni, where have you been?
That silly argument leads directly to the conclusion that the atmosphere
can't be any hotter than the
At 08:58 AM 8/5/2011, Mattia Rizzi wrote:
Galantini said that reads grams of liquid water
/ m^3 of vapor on display of HD37AB1347.
From Leviâs report, Galantini used an
HP474ACR probe, that measure RH and temperature.
In the 2nd email, Galantini claim that he
measured the preassure inside
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/mollier-diagram-water-d_308.html shows a
Mollier diagram, but I see no way to use this diagram to determine steam
quality.
Dear Abd,
I use like this:
Take the isobaric curve;
Find intersection with temperature.
Now you can read the steam quality using the
Anyway i searched all possible reference of text written on the internet by
Galantini about the e-cat measurements and he does not mention steam tables
nor Mollier diagrams but psychrometric tables which i do not understand how
to use with steam... does anyone have a clue?
mic
Il giorno
2011/8/5 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com:
The device has a pressure sensor in it,
the pressure sensor is not in the probe. It's looking like Galantini assumed
he was getting a pressure reading from the probe he'd placed in the E-cat,
hence his error.
This is too simple explanation!
At 09:38 AM 8/5/2011, Daniel Rocha wrote:
Let me get this simple to you. You are WRONG.
We can stop right here. Daniel, you have sent this message to an
entire mailing list. There is nothing in your message that indicates
to whom or to what you are responding.
There is nothing in your
At 10:17 AM 8/5/2011, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
Any probe that measures temperature in boiling water system measures
also pressure. That is because boiling point of water is directly
depended on pressure.
Jouni, you can't see the forest for the trees. Sure, temperature will
depend on pressure.
At 10:29 AM 8/5/2011, Daniel Rocha wrote:
By knowing the RH, you will know the steam quality, adding
temperature and output, you will find the pressure inside the chamber.
That's nonsense. Relative humidity maxes at 100%. The device used
doesn't even reach that level.
Steam quality has
2011/8/6 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com:
At 10:17 AM 8/5/2011, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
Any probe that measures temperature in boiling water system measures
also pressure. That is because boiling point of water is directly
depended on pressure.
Jouni, you can't see the forest for the
At 10:41 AM 8/5/2011, Daniel Rocha wrote:
Yes, he measured the pressure. He doesn't need an instrument
specific for that. You don't need an instrument for every data you
want to find. For example, even in any big particle colliders you
don't see all of the resulting colliding particles. You
At 10:51 AM 8/5/2011, Daniel Rocha wrote:
There is no need for literature. If you have 1bar or less and any
temperature above 100C, with 0% RH, you have no liquid water in any
kind of gas, even if that gas is steam.
Actually, if the gas is 100% steam, the RH is 100%.
Yes. The statement is
At 11:00 AM 8/5/2011, Daniel Rocha wrote:
The probe can work util 150C. It doesn't need to be that one that
measure pressure directly.
that's right. However, how are you going to measure temperature of
100 C, and the pressure, with a pressure probe only rated for 60 C?
Sure, you can measure
At 11:04 AM 8/5/2011, Daniel Rocha wrote:
This is the reason why you need to know only one measured variable
from E-Cat and that is the temperature of steam.
You need also RH to make sure there is no mist.
RH does not vary with mist. Mist is at RH of 100%. As is saturated
steam. No matter
At 11:07 AM 8/5/2011, Daniel Rocha wrote:
No, not a circular demonstration. Steam is dry because P=1bar, and
T100 cosidering that the measured RH=0.
Where is the measured RH found to be zero? Daniel, you are very far
off the wall here.
What you've done is to accept Galantini's statement,
2011/8/6 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com:
Boilers, however, do not ordinarily have liquid water spilling over the edge
of a hole in the side of the boiler, at a pace determined by the difference
between the pumped rate and the vaporization rate. If there is substantial
steam (my very
At 04:55 PM 8/5/2011, Michele Comitini wrote:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/mollier-diagram-water-d_308.htmlhttp://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/mollier-diagram-water-d_308.html
shows a Mollier diagram, but I see no way to
use this diagram to determine steam quality.
Dear Abd,
I use
At 06:22 PM 8/5/2011, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
Ps. Abd ul-Rahman, be careful when insulting chemists. I'm
(bio-)chemist too and I know everything about the steam, since I have
cooked pasta when I was 12-years old. And also physical chemistry
covers rather well all that are related to
At 07:34 PM 8/5/2011, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
2011/8/6 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com:
Boilers, however, do not ordinarily have liquid water spilling
over the edge
of a hole in the side of the boiler, at a pace determined by the difference
between the pumped rate and the
Comitini
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 12:35 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:[e-cat] Engineer from delta ohm confirms that galantini
instrument is useless
Thanks Mattia,
Le grandezze derivate che lo strumento permette di visualizzare sono
calcolate dai diagrammi di Mollier
measurements are flawed
too.
-Messaggio originale- From: Michele Comitini
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 12:35 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:[e-cat] Engineer from delta ohm confirms that galantini
instrument is useless
Thanks Mattia,
Le grandezze derivate che lo
12:35 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:[e-cat] Engineer from delta ohm confirms that galantini
instrument is useless
Thanks Mattia,
Le grandezze derivate che lo strumento permette di visualizzare sono
calcolate dai diagrammi di Mollier
The derived quantities that the tool
.
-Messaggio originale- From: Michele Comitini
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 12:35 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:[e-cat] Engineer from delta ohm confirms that
galantini
instrument is useless
Thanks Mattia,
Le grandezze derivate che lo strumento permette di
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:[e-cat] Engineer from delta ohm confirms that galantini
instrument is useless
Mattia Rizzi wrote:
Jed Rothwell, it’s over.
So you admit the laws of thermodynamics have not been repealed, and 4.2 joules
still equal 1 calorie? Good. I am glad that you now
Mattia Rizzi wrote:
What claims? The pump that erogate 3 times much more water than the
maximux rate wrote on the datasheet?
The pump was not used in the 18-hour test.
Or the “5kW steam” that look exaclty like a 600W steam?
You cannot judge steam quality by looking at the steam. In any
to the steam temperature.
-Mark
-Original Message-
From: Mattia Rizzi [mailto:mattia.ri...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 3:56 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Re: [e-cat] Engineer from delta ohm confirms that galantini
instrument is useless
Delta ohm's engineer say
04, 2011 4:06 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Re: [e-cat] Engineer from delta ohm confirms that
galantini instrument is useless
Was RH measurement 'flawed'?
So long as the probe is rated to operate above 100°C, it should provide a
valid RH reading, PROVIDED
you let the probe come
[mailto:mattia.ri...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 7:21 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Re: [e-cat] Engineer from delta ohm confirms that galantini
instrument is useless
RH is simply the amount of water vapor that CAN exist in a given volume of
*air* at a given pressure
and temperature
I cannot find where Galantini declared that he used the RH reading on the
datalogger. Did he declare that?
Maybe he used the probe because it measures T in the correct range up to
150°C. If he knew the pressure at the point where the probe was then with
steam tables or Mollier diagram the
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