Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board update on Branding: next steps

2020-06-29 Thread Gerard Meijssen
ect, unfortunately they did not > identify a cure. > Cheers, > P > > -Original Message- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen > Sent: 29 June 2020 12:36 > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wiki

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board update on Branding: next steps

2020-06-29 Thread Gerard Meijssen
not refute by dismissing them. Thanks, GerardM On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 at 11:43, Benjamin Lees wrote: > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:56 AM Gerard Meijssen > > wrote: > > > Dear WereSpielChequers, the thing with bias is that it shows in the > choices > > made. You are a Wik

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board update on Branding: next steps

2020-06-29 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Dear WereSpielChequers, the thing with bias is that it shows in the choices made. You are a Wikipedian, do not really care for the other projects and you make that plain in what you say. The problem with bias is that it has consequences in how you approach issues. When Wikipedia "consensus"

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thoughts on the rebranding initiative: "Movement"

2020-06-22 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, It is abundantly clear that some identify only by their community. It is abundantly clear that people in some communities do not recognise shared values like "sharing in the sum of all knowledge". It is also clear that the Wikimedia Foundation is not bound by what some in a community insist

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board Update on Branding

2020-06-22 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Please take a step back. The Wikimedia Foundation is incorporated in a way specifically designed to prevent the community from taking over. The problem with the community is that there is no community as such; there is a movement that includes different communities with different needs and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Brand Project] Rescheduling Naming Convention Proposal community review

2020-06-21 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, I do not translate but I do care. What I personally do is include data in a structured manner. I do it for things I more or less care about.. It does include awards, educated at, employed by, Ottoman history, Africa, science.. The point in what I do is that much of these structures can be

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation proposal to call ourselves as the Wikipedia Network, Wikipedia Movement or simply Wiki

2020-06-21 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Today I wrote a "swot analysis" [1]. What I want us to achieve is an increased effectiveness in our aim to share the sum of all knowledge. What I write is stark. I allow for a situation where Mr Trump remains president. I contrast on the one hand that room for growth (think audience) is not

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: transition to implementation begins

2020-06-10 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, The biggest problem of this strategy document that I see is that it is oriented towards our own internals. This is best understood from the first sentence: *People-centeredness means that every aspect of our Movement must address the needs and challenges of the people who power it and whom

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Brand Project] Rescheduling Naming Convention Proposal community review

2020-06-07 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, How will you cope in other languages, other scripts. Is engaging all over the world NOT in English a consideration> Thanks, GerardM On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 at 05:34, Zack McCune wrote: > Hi Tito - > > Your observation is fair and welcome. The project team will update the > timeline on

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Early thoughts regarding a global code of conduct and a GCC committee

2020-06-07 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, To help you remember, we had such situations in the past, they were resolved. It was ultimately the language committee who stopped Wikipedias. Background it is this same language committee who is instrumental in starting new projects. On a different topic. Diversity and bias is very much

Re: [Wikimedia-l] 2020 Community Spotlight Survey

2020-05-31 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hey Chris, The most inspiring thing, what will have a huge effect on our community happened in the last week or so. It started with a proof of concept by Hay Kranen [1]. It works and it brought search to Commons. Multi lingual search to Commons. In the example you search for a "kamsalamander" in

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Giving Commons a bigger public

2020-05-29 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, I have been playing with the tool for some time and it is already great; it works and it is a great basis to expand on. Expand its functionality and data quality. I added a label in Urdu in Wikidata for "Mujaddid Ahmad Ijaz" and once the synchronisation was done, I found a wealth of pictures

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Giving Commons a bigger public

2020-05-24 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, I have been a professional developer for much of my working life. From what I know of what Hay has done, I know you are wrong depending on the approach taken. Building this functionality can be an iterative process, it does not need to be all singing all dancing from the start. At one time

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Giving Commons a bigger public

2020-05-24 Thread Gerard Meijssen
when it's ready". Which is > fair, they are doing their job. > I can't change that yet. I don't know how my attitude can change it. I > still think that this relies on the attitude of the bulk of users that even > now are not interested in dealing with such long-term issues of Commons

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Giving Commons a bigger public

2020-05-24 Thread Gerard Meijssen
it that you can click on to search depicts statements for that > category’s topic without having to look up the QID first. > > Thanks, > Mike > > > On 24 May 2020, at 10:30, Gerard Meijssen > wrote: > > > > Hoi, > > Two more localisations became available, one f

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Giving Commons a bigger public

2020-05-24 Thread Gerard Meijssen
an example). Thanks, GerardM On Sun, 24 May 2020 at 07:33, Gerard Meijssen wrote: > Hoi, > Florence I totally agree that proper internatonalisation, localisation is > key. What is key for me is that this already provides an easy and obvious > search function for mediafiles that hav

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Giving Commons a bigger public

2020-05-23 Thread Gerard Meijssen
kimedia.org/wiki/Category:Hay%27s_SDSEARCH On Sun, 24 May 2020 at 01:21, Florence Devouard wrote: > > Le 24/05/2020 à 00:23, Erik Moeller a écrit : > > On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 10:10 AM Gerard Meijssen > > wrote: > > > >> Hay Kranen created a proof of concept wher

[Wikimedia-l] Giving Commons a bigger public

2020-05-22 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Hay Kranen created a proof of concept where Commons is searched for pictures that (per standard) use a "depicts" statement.. The search is limited to existing labels in Wikidata and to the search has as its result whatever is available in commons.. Use for instance "appelmoes" and you get

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Commons

2020-05-18 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Dear Ziko, your proposal is business as usual. The biggest question we should ask is not what do we do but WHY do we do it. When we decide that Open Content is there to be used, it follows that it is a key performance indicator to know to what extend we serve a public and what public we have,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Commons

2020-05-17 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Just consider this, there are still many pictures in the English Wikipedia that could be in Commons because of its license and regularly there are pictures in Commons that are deleted because there license is not compatible with Commons. At Commons a revolution is taking place because the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Annoying ads

2020-05-05 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, To me this is similar to the argument why we do not really raise funds in some countries that "are poor". Some people are poor, certainly, but many others are not. The argument that we can afford has a relation to our aspirations, ambitions what can we do better, more particularly in the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

2020-04-15 Thread Gerard Meijssen
. > > And maybe there's a good reason to listen to the people who literally built > the thing, made it into what it is, and still day to day keep it going. > Maybe we know what we're doing. I think we rather proved it. > > Todd > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:00 PM Gerard Meijssen

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

2020-04-15 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, When I read something like this, it takes me aback. Yes, people may have an opinion, they may even express it and they even may be wrong. Who cares really. There is enough to dislike in branding, we are not cattle. From a marketing perspective there may be a point. The point would be to bring

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

2020-03-25 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, The fact that it is considered major enough to address how Snøhetta became blocked on English Wikipedia is ok. What is also does is confirm the bias towards English Wikipedia. I am pretty sure that in the briefing of Snøhetta personnel it was NOT mentioned that other projects may have

[Wikimedia-l] The Corona dead

2020-03-22 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Obviously with a pandemic people die including notable people. As I am used to do, I have a query, a Listeria list that will update the latest information based on what we know in Wikidata. Given that it is not restricted to any one Wikipedia, we will know the notable dead from any and all

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

2020-03-15 Thread Gerard Meijssen
cope for > > confusion, there is less likely for confusion to occur when you are > > sufficiently specific when referring to the ambiguous entities. > > Cheers, > > Peter > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wiki

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

2020-03-15 Thread Gerard Meijssen
---Original Message- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen > Sent: 15 March 2020 08:37 > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement? > > Hoi, > By making the p

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

2020-03-15 Thread Gerard Meijssen
age- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 2:12 PM > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement? > > Hoi, > Essie, the w

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

2020-03-14 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Essie, the work done by Snøhetta centres on the notion of Wikipedia as a unifying brand. The problem is that Wikipedia on its own is 300 projects and that for many, if not most people English Wikipedia *is *Wikipedia. When we are all to be Wikipedia we will all suffer from the bias that

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on other projects

2020-02-28 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Benjamin is it fair to expect that you are a Wikipedian first and a Wikimedian second? The problem with perception is that it differs from where you stand. One of the easiest things to solve on all the Wikipedias are false friends but hey I stand with data and the Wikipedia perception is that

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on other projects

2020-02-26 Thread Gerard Meijssen
, Gerard On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 at 09:39, Gnangarra wrote: > Scope is a Commons community decision, > OTRS is solely about licensing > > On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 at 15:30, Gerard Meijssen > wrote: > > > Hoi, > > No it is an administrative process. It follows its own rules IN

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on other projects

2020-02-25 Thread Gerard Meijssen
it took place, it protects all parties should there be an issue in > the future in particular the WMF and our volunteers who were involved in > the process. > > On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 at 13:57, Gerard Meijssen > wrote: > > > Hoi, > > Thank you for demonstrating the extend O

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on other projects

2020-02-25 Thread Gerard Meijssen
t; > None of this relies in any way on the specific definition of ‘notable’ as > > used on the Wikipedias; that’s simply not relevant. > > > > The problem here seems to be an additional hurdle that has apparently > been > > added to the guidance given to OTRS volunteers. O

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on otherprojects

2020-02-25 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, For me there is no difference. When Commons OTRS is not behaving as is to be expected, they provide a serious disservice to our movement and yes, it may be volunteering but that is not a reason to accept what is not acceptable. What will be done to remedy this predicament? Thanks,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on other projects

2020-02-25 Thread Gerard Meijssen
oving categorization is > probably more focused on chasing users than actually cleaning up. As soon > as you assume that this is the core source of the behavior, you can teach > newbies quite well how to avoid it. It's not "good faith" but... it kinda > works. > Alessandr

[Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on other projects

2020-02-25 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Apparantly at Commons they have standardised themselves to only support Wikipedia. At Wikidata we have people who are notable according to our standards. We are actively asking them for images to illustrate our information. The best suggestion we get is: do not ask for images because they

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Next steps on Wikimedia Space

2020-02-21 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, There are too many places where all kinds of conversations are held. Everyone expects that others make use of their preferred platform. I can use wikis and I am not able to cover all the Wikis where all kinds of conversations are held that may be or may not be of interest to me. As chaos

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Snøhetta and Wikimedia

2020-02-02 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, I totally agree that it is about community.. There are some 200 Wikipedia communities, there is Commons, Wikisource and the community I am most involved in Wikidata. What ties it together is the organisation of it all. THAT is Wikimedia for me, both the org and the movement. Thanks,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community survey: Wikimedia Diversity Conference 2020

2020-01-23 Thread Gerard Meijssen
ilable knowledge in certain > geographical contexts, etc. > > Thanks for asking. > Best, > Marc > ᐧ > > Missatge de Gerard Meijssen del dia dc., 22 de > gen. 2020 a les 8:01: > > > Hoi, > > Ah yes, I can read. > > > > In my mind when confer

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community survey: Wikimedia Diversity Conference 2020

2020-01-21 Thread Gerard Meijssen
> > > > On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 10:43 AM Gerard Meijssen < > gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > I am not interested when I do no have a clue about the scope > > > > > > Op ma 20 jan. 2020 15:09 schreef Ilario Valdelli : > > > > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community survey: Wikimedia Diversity Conference 2020

2020-01-20 Thread Gerard Meijssen
I am not interested when I do no have a clue about the scope Op ma 20 jan. 2020 15:09 schreef Ilario Valdelli : > That can be an output of the conference. Is not it? > > On Mon, 20 Jan 2020, 13:57 Gerard Meijssen, > wrote: > > > Hoi, > > How do you d

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community survey: Wikimedia Diversity Conference 2020

2020-01-20 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, How do you define diversity? Thanks, GerardM On Mon, 20 Jan 2020 at 13:44, Jon Harald Søby wrote: > Hi all, and apologies if you receive this email several times – I will be > posting it to multiple mailing lists. > > Wikimedia Norge would like to organize a regional Wikimedia

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The wikisites looks like 1996

2019-12-15 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, I am game, to make me interested again in the editing sense of Wikipedia, there are a few things on my wish list. The first thing I will happily contribute to are "red links on steroids". The problem with red links is disambiguation.. Suppose that there is no article by that name, chances

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Remember Wikipedia Zero.. Where is the research about the effects of its demise?

2019-12-02 Thread Gerard Meijssen
sured. > > > > > The board members are unlikely to have personally researched this, > > but might know if there is or was a project and if so what they are or > were > > trying to measure. Equally, someone from WMF might be able to report on > > what has been

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Remember Wikipedia Zero.. Where is the research about the effects of its demise?

2019-12-01 Thread Gerard Meijssen
it, please let us know. > Anyone who has ideas on how it could be measured or why it can't is also > welcome to comment. > Cheers, > Peter > > > -Original Message- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf Of Gerard Meijsse

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Remember Wikipedia Zero.. Where is the research about the effects of its demise?

2019-12-01 Thread Gerard Meijssen
> -- Lodewijk > > On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 9:34 PM Gerard Meijssen > > wrote: > > > Hoi, > > Kiwix and off line Wikipedia did exist at the start of Wikipedia Zero. > It > > is great that you brought some to Africa but you do not scale and it is >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Remember Wikipedia Zero.. Where is the research about the effects of its demise?

2019-11-25 Thread Gerard Meijssen
ll help when it comes online in a few years. > > James > > On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 12:19 AM Gerard Meijssen > wrote: > > > > Hoi, > > The BBC shows how dramatically expensive internet is in Africa.. For in > my > > opinion local political reasons Wikipedia Zero

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brief request for advice about "What's making you happy this week?"

2019-11-25 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi Pine, What makes me happy is that scientists are now adding information for their young academy. There are many young scientists organised nationally and internationally and typically they are a member for a set number of years. What makes me really happy is that these orgs are now getting

[Wikimedia-l] Remember Wikipedia Zero.. Where is the research about the effects of its demise?

2019-11-24 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, The BBC shows how dramatically expensive internet is in Africa.. For in my opinion local political reasons Wikipedia Zero has terminated. That is ok up to a point; the point being that we understand the consequences from this action. Given that our data is NOT local, people have to pay a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation Chief of Community Engagement to leave the Foundation

2019-11-16 Thread Gerard Meijssen
t the WMF was well and properly > represented at the conference, that the money was well spent and that there > will be/ already are practical and noticeable improvements in the > engagement with the wiki communities in Africa on the part of the WMF after > that. > > Best, > Paulo >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation Chief of Community Engagement to leave the Foundation

2019-11-16 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, What language does the staff, the departments speak. What chance for the current bias to be sustained and for no real progress where we do a mediocre job at best.. Did we EVER research what the effect was of ending the free access to our articles when we ended our program. Do we know how to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiConference North America live stream

2019-11-10 Thread Gerard Meijssen
gt; Do you have a better suggestion? Something practical and less expensive, > that could actually work to make conferences more widely accessible? > Cheers, > Peter > > -Original Message- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behal

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiConference North America live stream

2019-11-10 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Eh, and what choices are then made when conferences coincide as they do with this conference? Not really practical and really expensive. Thanks, GerardM On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 at 22:36, James Salsman wrote: > It would be great if the Foundation hired a dedicated A/V team to > remote-enable

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Greener travel and the ethics of carbon offset for Wikimedia community events

2019-10-11 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, When the WMF wants to "green" itself, the most effective way is to make its software and operations greener. The software will reduce the need for energy, the operations ensure that green energy is used. Reducing the need for energy is an investment that will reduce the overall cost and has

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [LGBT] Best practices for awarding scholarships

2019-10-07 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, For any and all other conventions those giving a presentation are notable per the completeness of informing and linking to the presentations. Quite often people have presented before and only when these presentations are linked through their presenter it is possible to make the connection.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Community Tech: New Format for 2020 Wishlist Survey

2019-10-07 Thread Gerard Meijssen
nators to say what they want the money to be spend on. We currently do > NOT have any way for community to do the same. Thus, its a self-driving > ship -- the inmates are running the asylum. > > > On Sun, Oct 6, 2019 at 12:50 AM Gerard Meijssen > > wrote: > > &g

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Ի՞նչն է Ձեզ երջանկացնում այս շաբաթ: / What’s making you happy this week? (Week of 22 September 2019)

2019-10-06 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Wonderful work congratulations .. I do appreciate your work, in my "Africa project" I have a record for all the known administrative administrative entities. It truly is a work in progress and it serves a few purposes. - In Wikidata the links for the administrative entities exist and they

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Community Tech: New Format for 2020 Wishlist Survey

2019-10-05 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, The disappointing you show and the grotesque conclusions are imho based in a sense of entitlement. You had it your way for so long and they are now robbing you from your cookies... It is easy to "forget" that a program where a majority decides what is on a "community wish list" favours the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

2019-09-25 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, For me this is a negative approach, it is all about costs and there is no consideration of benefits. When you consider a conference with over 100 people, you CANNOT replace it by digital means. You will not have the conversations made possible by being there in person and getting to meet

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wiki loves SDGs

2019-09-18 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Sorry but when you call my comments flippant, you call me flippant. Thanks, GerardM On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 11:06, Andy Mabbett wrote: > On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 09:24, Gerard Meijssen > wrote: > > > Calling someone "flippant" is a direct attack - > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wiki loves SDGs

2019-09-18 Thread Gerard Meijssen
ot subject to the threat of a 3 year prison > sentence solely for being LGBT+. > > Thanks, > Fae > -- > fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae > WM-LGBT+ https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_LGBT+ > > On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 06:42, Gerard Meijssen

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wiki loves SDGs

2019-09-17 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, To be honest, there are great reasons not to having meetings in the United States for similar reasons. The notion of conversion of homosexuality is alive and well, even though people who care to look at the science know that it does not work. The murder rate among LGBTI people is sky high.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community feedback and next steps on movement brand proposal

2019-09-07 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, The right question here: how have you supported the sister projects in the past. The follow question: Branding is about getting attention for products. How will the sister projects benefit from more attention to Wikipedia? The point is we have not marketed the products from sister projects.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

2019-08-24 Thread Gerard Meijssen
l be a sufficient number of continuing and new volunteers to > sustain the projects in the way the WMF desires. It seems odd that the > Board would not have even begun to consider this question, but it is of > course for them and not for us to decide. > > Jeff > > On Sat, Aug 24,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

2019-08-24 Thread Gerard Meijssen
hem for myself, or when > they are based on the words of other people. Make sure you are addressing > the relevant person. Ask for clarification if you need it. Do not put words > into my mouth. > Peter > > -Original Message- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedi

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

2019-08-24 Thread Gerard Meijssen
fective. > Cheers, > Peter > > -Original Message- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen > Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2019 6:29 PM > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strateg

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

2019-08-24 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, May I ask what you mean with "the" community? If anything the Wikimedia community exists in some 300 parts and every parts has as many distinct opinions. There are essential conflicts of interest, by some there is a sense of entitlement, either based on possession or based on promises made.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block

2019-07-04 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Sorry but there is no reflection and all I read is an apologist telling us that English Wikipedia is the best there is. It is not, not by far. What is thought of as the English Wikipedia community are the old hands steeped in the arcane lore that are the policies that defend the status quo

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block

2019-07-04 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Let me be simple. A friend of mine was banned for life by the WMF, there was no room for discussion so the notion that this is a first is not accurate. It is well known that English Wikipedia is considered a toxic environment This has been known by all for a very long time. The fact of the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block

2019-07-04 Thread Gerard Meijssen
l Message- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen > Sent: 04 July 2019 09:59 > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block > > Hoi, > The community is responsib

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block

2019-07-04 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, The community is responsible for its actions. It is widely acknowledged that the English Wikipedia is a toxic environment. The community has not taken this on board, has not fixed the damage. At some stage an inflection point exists where the community if forced to reflect. Sadly, the English

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia DC Statement on Terms of Use Enforcement

2019-07-01 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, In the first instance this is not about preventing harassment, it is the reckoning off harassment past. A reckoning of actors of what they see as acceptable or reasonable behavior. This has been on the radar for at least as long as Wikimania London. They could have seen this coming in the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block

2019-06-30 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Bans that cannot be appealed against are nothing new. A friend of mine has a lifetime ban and there are mitigating circumstances (imho). Having said that; for me a person who shuns Wikipedia as an editor for its negativity, this has been a long time coming and is very welcome. When people

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-21 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, I am afraid that this is a misrepresentation. Romaine is a "self confessed" person with Asperger. Within our community we have an overrepresentation with people with a mental health issue. This is to be expected. This is typically not appreciated hardly ever understood. I have noticed before

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Gerard Meijssen
dents reported. > Things that should have stayed private were told on this mailing list by > Romaine... well when do we stop this ? > > Please keep in mind when you cast your support here that people who have > reported Romaine might be reading this. > > Le jeu. 20 juin 2019 à 23:12,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Caroline, For me this is not your story. Your insistence of making it so has quite the opposite effect. I have known Romaine, the tireless efforts for us all he has given us over the years, I grieve for our collective loss. I do not know you and you are intruding on what is a feeling shared by

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi Romaine, I am sad. It has been a pleasure to work with you. Your energy has been inspiring. I hope that we will find each other whenever, wherever. Thank you Romaine :) Gerard On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 13:15, Romaine Wiki wrote: > Dear community, > > First I need to mention that the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community Health, Roles & Responsibilities

2019-06-16 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Ask yourself why you do not get it as you describe them as "noisy". There is a photo of a presentation at the London Wikimania going round that describes it well. It is a long time coming and the chickens have come home to roost. Indeed they are not learning the appropriate lessons but they

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Foundation management of volunteers

2019-06-16 Thread Gerard Meijssen
ation. That portion, I'm afraid, > is never going to be negotiable. But without doing that, I think the > community and the WMF can collaborate to solve problems, if and only if > that relationship can be one based upon trust. But the community didn't > swing first on this one, and t

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Foundation management of volunteers

2019-06-16 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, It is not so much Wikipedia that is failing, it is the Wikipedia "business as usual" attitude that is failing. The challenge we face is now that we know and expect that things are to change, how do we introduce change and steer it in a way where people feel less threatened by the usual

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block

2019-06-15 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, For me it is not about Fram, it is about who you are as a community how you rate as friendly cooperative inviting. At that Wikipedia sucks and as it says in the book Max Havelaar, "Barbertje moet hangen". This case is a clear sign that not everything can be said and done and that there is no

Re: [Wikimedia-l] ¿Qué te hace feliz esta semana? / What's making you happy this week?

2019-06-12 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, What makes me happy is that a public discussion is happening about the performance and the future performance of the query engine of the Wikidata query engine. Not only are things in the open but it has triggered responses from knowledgeable people making it plain that there is room for

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [African Wikimedians] Happy Africa Day: keyboards for all the languages of Africa

2019-05-25 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hey Isaac, Would you be willing to either write an article about using the Yoruba keyboard. Particularly what it takes to learn to use it and if/how you use other software? It would deserve a place on the Wikimedia blog because the keyboard effort deserves much more attention :) Thanks,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Be the change you want to see (was: WMF commitment for a Wikimedia projects archive)

2019-05-15 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Asaf thank you very much. This response of yours helps build bridges. Thanks, GerardM On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 03:17, Asaf Bartov wrote: > Speaking as a (very) longtime member of this mailing list, and one who is > carefully observing it for a few years now as a volunteer list >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcing 1Lib1Ref (1Bib1Ref) in May 2019!

2019-04-29 Thread Gerard Meijssen
and the simple arithmetic that the collaboration with librarians > equally does not and cannot fix that problem. > > In future, please do not say "you do not understand X" when what you mean > is "I disagree with you about X". > > JPS > > On Sun, Apr 28, 20

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcing 1Lib1Ref (1Bib1Ref) in May 2019!

2019-04-28 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, The thing you fail to understand is how much of what we do is done by a community. What we need is collaboration with the world of libraries. It is embodied by librarians and yes, it is important that they are on our side. To be on our side, they need to know Wikipedia, what we are doing in

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Supporting Wikinews [was: Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals]

2019-04-27 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Now that the Wikidatafication of Commons allows for "depicts", there is plenty to do. It will make it easier to find what is on Commons, it will hugely increase the relevance of Commons beyond the Wikimedia Foundation and within, it allows people to find illustrations in their own language

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Supporting Wikinews [was: Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals]

2019-04-19 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, "your time and effort" is for those other people to waste. It is for them to decide what value they derive from spending it in this way. "our donations", donations is what donors offer. Once they have donated, it becomes the money of the Wikimedia Foundation. It is not our donations, it is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

2019-04-18 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Jennifer, So you did not say it because you did not do the researce but when a minority of our community does not identify themselves as "Wikipedians" it does not matter. Sorry, but that is EXACTLY what I said. What you indicate is that a minority may be ignored. Why else do "the research" but to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

2019-04-18 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, So it is ok to deny the minority that insists they are not? Thanks, GerardM On Thu, 18 Apr 2019 at 08:32, Jennifer Pryor-Summers < jennifer.pryorsumm...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > You can't be a member of "The Wikipedia Movement". > > > > > I suggest that this claimed impossibility

Re: [Wikimedia-l] branding is bikeshedding, how about CTO criteria or working group lists instead?

2019-04-16 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Fine. Obviously we disagree on what we read in the same text. Now what would be the "correct way" to address a perceived sense of superiority ? Thanks, GerardM On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 at 11:24, Dan Garry (Deskana) wrote: > On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 at 10:14, Gerard Meijssen >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] branding is bikeshedding, how about CTO criteria or working group lists instead?

2019-04-16 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Thank you for your sense of superiority.. the views on this list are "easy to have"and "not the big, difficult questions". These are some big difficult questions I can come up with: - how will we deal with the existing bias that is Anglo-American.. - how will we deal with the existing

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

2019-04-14 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Yes there is a noticeable difference. Costs for changing websites, stationary and the like are not budgeted for. Given that budgets do not account for such nonsense it is not an "easy" test. It is also not a test because when the test proves negative you double the cost. Thanks, GerardM

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

2019-04-13 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, When I worked on Ottoman history in Wikidata (I will get back to it again) Catalan was one of the best resources. Thank you :) If you want me to I can share my work/your work on your wikipedia. Thanks, GerardM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GerardM#Ottoman_Turkey On Sat, 13 Apr 2019

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

2019-04-13 Thread Gerard Meijssen
to get it of the ground. What it does take is the realisation that Wikimedia is NOT Wikipedia. This is necessary for this experiment to start.. Thanks, GerardM On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 at 17:56, Samuel Klein wrote: > On Sat., Apr. 13, 2019, 2:27 a.m. Gerard Meijssen, < > ger

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

2019-04-13 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Thank you for your well argued point of view. I followed the statistics as provided by Erik Zachte for a long time and the trend was slowly but surely where based on the statistics of Wikipedia alone English Wikipedia traffic moved slowly but surely from over fifty to under fifty percent.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

2019-04-13 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Wikipedia is indeed clearly the core global brand. The notion that Wikidata will "never match Wikipedia whatever its future success" is a sad argument. Use some hindsight and compare Wikipedia and its impact with Wikidata at the same age, do the same for Commons. It is also a useless argument

[Wikimedia-l] The Wikimedia search engine, a thought experiment

2019-04-10 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Our projects, our organisation is fractured. In the perception of many we are Wikipedia but in actuality there is no Wikipedia, there are over 180 Wikipedias. There are projects other than Wikipedia but for all kinds of reasons they are not known, as a brand they have little recognition. At

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

2019-04-09 Thread Gerard Meijssen
entifying ourselves > > with Wikipedia could create real life problems to affiliates. Let's think > > on making our product better, because is not a brand problem, is an > > obsolescence problem what we have. > > > > > > From: Wikime

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

2019-04-09 Thread Gerard Meijssen
a brand problem, is an > obsolescence problem what we have. > > ____ > > From: Wikimedia-l on behalf > of Gerard Meijssen > > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2019 12:36 PM > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 20

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