Patricia Pena, 06/01/2015 19:32:
worked with our bank to improve the security and fraud
protection of our bank accounts so that we can now disclose the bank
account information on our donation pages.
Great! Can these important security tips/steps be documented on a
Meta-Wiki page, so that
Hi Lodewijk and all,
Thank you for your feedback regarding the IBAN information. As an update,
the Finance team worked with our bank to improve the security and fraud
protection of our bank accounts so that we can now disclose the bank
account information on our donation pages.
We have updated
Hi Lodewijk,
Thanks for letting us know! IDEAL has been back up in the page, but we
recently made a few changes that ended up accidentally removing the option
from the form. It's all fixed now :)
Regarding IBAN: Finance is still working with our bank and we should be
sending an update once we
Hi Pats,
Thanks.
Lodewijk
On Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 9:30 PM, Patricia Pena pp...@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Lodewijk,
Thanks for letting us know! IDEAL has been back up in the page, but we
recently made a few changes that ended up accidentally removing the option
from the form. It's all fixed
Le 19/12/2014 08:33, Gerard Meijssen a écrit :
Hoi,
I blogged about this [1]. By ignoring the rest of the world, they
effectively give ownership to the WMF to the USA way of working. On a more
practical level, they hand over money for their convenience that is in my
opinion an absolute waste. By
Hi Pats,
Please be aware that iDEAL is still not functional on the Dutch fundraiser
page. Also, IBAN is missing.
Best,
Lodewijk
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:16 PM, Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org
wrote:
Hi Patricia,
Thanks for telling that the iDEAL will be back soon. I don't quite
Hoi,
I blogged about this [1]. By ignoring the rest of the world, they
effectively give ownership to the WMF to the USA way of working. On a more
practical level, they hand over money for their convenience that is in my
opinion an absolute waste. By using a UK organisation to process donations,
That's very interesting.
However, as stated, in .nl (and SEPA) one pays people using IBAN
accounts.
One not-pays people using not-IBAN.
iDeal is a handy dandy web interface to do (essentially) IBAN transfers.
Them's the options; whether I personally like them or not.[*]
c'est tout!
Tim Landscheidt, 01/12/2014 04:22:
Also, I'm no expert on EU regulations, but I do observe that
according to the European Payments Council, it seems payees
receiving SEPA credit transfers are advised to communicate
the IBAN only where necessary:
On 30 November 2014 at 07:35, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote:
...
Do not be daft. The Wikimedia Foundation centralised its fundraising. It
said that it would do a better job. Seen from a central periphery model, it
probably does, However seen from the Netherlands it is rather
hi mz,
you are right, the whole wikipedia is built by volunteer time and
could have not been built otherwise. so volunteer time clearly is
worth significantly more. i sometimes feel ripped off as a volunteer.
first i donate my time, and then people approach me to addtionally
spend money for a
Hoi,
Our community, movement and our foundation is pretty darn good. When you
consider all the imperfections, there is after all room for improvement, it
is really amazing how much is achieved on such a shoestring budget. We pay
the prize for under-investing in our organisation, in our
Michael Snow, 30/11/2014 01:03:
One avenue for fraud that's facilitated by posting account numbers is
small payment fraud, usually involving stolen credit cards. [.]
So what all this message have to do with IBAN?
Nemo
___
Wikimedia-l
2014-11-30 19:40 GMT+01:00 Michael Snow wikipe...@frontier.com:
On 11/30/2014 10:19 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
Michael Snow, 30/11/2014 01:03:
One avenue for fraud that's facilitated by posting account numbers is
small payment fraud, usually involving stolen credit cards.
On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 7:40 PM, Michael Snow wikipe...@frontier.com
wrote:
On 11/30/2014 10:19 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
Michael Snow, 30/11/2014 01:03:
One avenue for fraud that's facilitated by posting account numbers is
small payment fraud, usually involving stolen credit cards.
Michael Snow, 30/11/2014 19:40:
As the rest of the message discussed, the fraudsters can use the IBAN to
make a donation in order to test that stolen card information belongs
to a real credit card.
Are you sure you know what an IBAN is?
Anyway, please inform the European Central Bank of your
Hoi,
An IBAN number is NOT a credit card ... You need a ping number in
combination with some smart card functionality in order to make it work..
The combination generates a number that is always different..
You can steal my card but making use of it without the pin number is really
hard, next to
On 29/11/14 10:05, Lodewijk wrote:
Thanks for the clarification. It's surprising to me that posting a bank
account number could lead to fraud - the bank systems are supposed to be
robust enough for that.
My understanding is this is mostly a problem in the US, from what I
heard from Garfield.
On 11/30/2014 1:14 PM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi,
An IBAN number is NOT a credit card ... You need a ping number in
combination with some smart card functionality in order to make it work..
The combination generates a number that is always different..
You seem to have misunderstood the scenario
On 11/30/2014 11:12 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
Anyway, please inform the European Central Bank of your findings, I'm
sure they'll be interested in hearing them. Currently their website
seems unaware of such fraud possibilities and contains statements such
as «Sensitive data payment: Data
Hoi,
IMHO we need to advertise how people can transfer money to us. It requires
an account number. Now if the USA is not able to accommodate this, FINE,
let us do it in Europe at least..
WHAT AM I MISSING HERE ?
Thanks,
GerardM
On 1 December 2014 at 03:38, Michael Snow
Ummm. We have all kinds of ways for people to donate, and the process for
transferring is pretty clear. Having been in a situation where I had to
make bank transfers, I felt honestly like I was handing over the keys to
the kingdom just for the right to pay someone money: far more personal
Frédéric Schütz sch...@mathgen.ch wrote:
Thanks for the clarification. It's surprising to me that posting a bank
account number could lead to fraud - the bank systems are supposed to be
robust enough for that.
My understanding is this is mostly a problem in the US, from what I
heard from
Michael Snow wikipe...@frontier.com wrote:
[...]
Also, I'm no expert on EU regulations, but I do observe that
according to the European Payments Council, it seems payees
receiving SEPA credit transfers are advised to communicate
the IBAN only where necessary:
just for the record: the IBAN we have been talking about al this time is
the bank account number of a WMF bank account in euro, at a bank located in
Paris (and previously in Brussels). Of course the WMF has a euro bank
account, it would be odd if they didn't.
Lodewijk
ps: no need to shout.
On
Hi Garfield,
Thanks for the clarification. It's surprising to me that posting a bank
account number could lead to fraud - the bank systems are supposed to be
robust enough for that. I know that all charities in the Netherlands post
this number on their website - maybe it could be worth while to
On 11/29/2014 1:05 AM, Lodewijk wrote:
Hi Garfield,
Thanks for the clarification. It's surprising to me that posting a bank
account number could lead to fraud - the bank systems are supposed to be
robust enough for that. I know that all charities in the Netherlands post
this number on their
Wikimedia always accepts donations. If the Wikimedia Foundation can't
figure out a way to easily accept monetary donations from Dutch
Wikimedians, why not simply focus efforts on non-monetary donations?
Edits and other wiki contributions are far more valuable, in my opinion.
Wikimedia Nederland
Hoi,
Do not be daft. The Wikimedia Foundation centralised its fundraising. It
said that it would do a better job. Seen from a central periphery model, it
probably does, However seen from the Netherlands it is rather silly.,
Pooh poohing this away with you can donate time as well is fine when you
All,
The local chapter processes payments in Switzerland and manages fundraising
banners and payment systems implementation. WMF is not running fundraising
banners in Switzerland.
If you spot any problems or issues, please do inform the local chapter.
Thanks,
Pats
On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at
Hi Pats,
maybe as a little background: Charles Andres, who you're responding to, is
actually an employee of Wikimedia CH. Your response might still be valid -
I can't judge that - but it sounds odd to me as a relative outsider :)
Best,
Lodewijk
On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 11:45 PM, Patricia Pena
On 28/11/14 23:49, Lodewijk wrote:
maybe as a little background: Charles Andres, who you're responding to, is
actually an employee of Wikimedia CH. Your response might still be valid -
I can't judge that - but it sounds odd to me as a relative outsider :)
Indeed, I think Patricia missed the
Lodewijk,
IBAN and bank account information is sent out upon request due to the level
of attempted bank fraud when the account information was posted on the
website.
I can review with our bank to see if IBAN security and fraud protection has
improved so that we can publicly post our IBAN number.
The day before yesterday I was presented a fundraising banner in
Switzerland which redirects to the donation page of Wmf, contrary the
chapters page.
Rupert
On Nov 26, 2014 3:18 PM, Kim Bruning k...@bruning.xs4all.nl wrote:
Just following up,
Has WMNL now received the sought information?
I just try and I am randomly redirected to the localize page or the WMF page…..
Le 27 nov. 2014 à 09:20, rupert THURNER rupert.thur...@gmail.com a écrit :
The day before yesterday I was presented a fundraising banner in
Switzerland which redirects to the donation page of Wmf, contrary the
Just following up,
Has WMNL now received the sought information?
sincerely,
Kim Bruning
On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 08:42:01AM +0100, Lodewijk wrote:
It seems everyone agrees it is an important method (although I'm not 100%
sure that the US based people running the fundraiser fully
To clarify: I was looking for information from my capacity as a volunteer -
I don't know if WMNL did or did not receive any information whatsoever.
I can only say that I did not receive a satisfying answer - but that should
be no surprise.
Best,
Lodewijk
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 2:04 PM, Kim
Interestingly I've just received a fundraising email localised to the UK
which doesn't offer any opportunity to give by direct debit. This is the
main form of regular giving in the UK, and the alternative that is offered
(regular gifts via credit card) is generally deprecated as it gives the
donor
To amplify:
Paying (business) taxes in The Netherlands now pretty much requires
electronic payment to an IBAN Account; a.k.a. it is (now) the standard,
default, baseline way to make payments at all.
After registering a business, the very next action is to open an (IBAN)
account. All extant
It seems everyone agrees it is an important method (although I'm not 100%
sure that the US based people running the fundraiser fully comprehend - I
am assuming this is the case), but there seems to be some reason why the
WMF chooses to not make this option easily available. A reason they choose
A while back now, the chapters were no longer allowed to fundraise, because
the Wikimedia Foundation argued they would be better able to do this. At
the time, this sounded somewhat reasonable. However, since then, there have
been some disturbing developments - at least for Dutch donors.
No longer
Moreover, because fundraising reports are now so stingy, we can't even
know the (per-country) effects of such decisions (cc fundraiser@), hence
public accountability is impossible.
*
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Fundraising/2013-14_Reportdiff=10307365oldid=10265366
*
Hi Lodewijk,
Currently IDEAL is temporarily down on our pages (it went into maintenance
mode after our annual campaign), but should be back up soon :) We know
the importance of this method for Dutch donors and have supported this
option since we started fundraising in the NL. We also support
Hi Patricia,
Thanks for telling that the iDEAL will be back soon. I don't quite
understand from your answer why you add the increased hurdle of emailing
the team for the IBAN though. Am I overlooking something?
Best,
Lodewijk
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:06 PM, Patricia Pena pp...@wikimedia.org
Op 17-11-14 om 20:28 schreef Lodewijk:
you back to the credit card page) or even via regular bank transfer (using
an IBAN) in the Netherlands. The donation page
Historically the structure of bank account numbers are very different
from country to country. And making transfers from one bank
This strikes me as yet another example of a WMF department forgetting
to inform relevant stakeholders as soon as is appropriate, when decisions
are made...
In just the last few days, on this mailing list alone, there have been
controversies on:
- not telling chapters' treasurers that a team had
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