Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids
Now there's a vision i could have lived with out. LOL Josh Luthman wrote: I like that idea way more then living comfortably. Sitting at home on the couch naked eating Cheetos provides minimal benefit to society. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:18 AM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: Yes, it depends on what you put in. Remember that unemployment is generally what you put in, to a point. The extensions that the feds put out are actually loans to your state that get paid back via unemployment taxes that you pay later. The system works as a basic safety net. I don't mind it.. I just sweat when I am on it. ryan On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:16 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Unemployment is dependent on your previous job from what I understand. He was in the Marines. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:13 AM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: How much is unemployment in OH? I max out here at 33% of my normal salary. I tell you I sweat and sweat trying to pick up my next gig. ryan On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: My roommate is on unemployment. How do you feel it sucks? He goes to school ~12 hours a week and gets paid more then I take for salary with tuition paid. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:05 AM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: Obviously you have never been on unemployment. It sucks. ryan On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:12 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I heard that un-employment benefits recently got extended to 100 weeks Let's give the masses' more reason to not go find a job. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto: wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids Wow, you're 22 and think like that?!?! I thought that mindset was dated! Just come help with the family business and I'll make sure you eat, have a place to sleep, get a percentage of the profits :) On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: What would my allowance be with no chores? Another big thing...I never got an allowance. I worked for my money (odd jobs, helping people out, etc.)Before Rick that is. IMO it's crap. Giving a child money to do what is expected (help cleaning and keeping up the house) just makes no sense. Both my parents came from a farm - work all day every day and in turn food and a bed. On 4/19/10, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Can I adopt you? :) On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Keep in mind I am 22 and have no kids. This is my personal point of view. My parents never set guidelines or many rules (just the basic things). I have never done any drugs. Been offered and been around them more then enough. Never smoked a cigarette in my life. Never drank until I was...very close to 21. Never got in any trouble at school. My first job led to the second job/career I have today. I enjoy my life, the people around me and the things I have. My partner has 3 teenage girls. He is extremely strict. One of them gets in to trouble, disobeys, does wrong things, etc. A friend I had in high school was in the same position. I know where that
Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids
Should be obvious we're on our company email at 2AM =) Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 2:16 AM, Frank Crawford mogoo...@gmx.com wrote: Now there's a vision i could have lived with out. LOL Josh Luthman wrote: I like that idea way more then living comfortably. Sitting at home on the couch naked eating Cheetos provides minimal benefit to society. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:18 AM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: Yes, it depends on what you put in. Remember that unemployment is generally what you put in, to a point. The extensions that the feds put out are actually loans to your state that get paid back via unemployment taxes that you pay later. The system works as a basic safety net. I don't mind it.. I just sweat when I am on it. ryan On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:16 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Unemployment is dependent on your previous job from what I understand. He was in the Marines. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:13 AM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: How much is unemployment in OH? I max out here at 33% of my normal salary. I tell you I sweat and sweat trying to pick up my next gig. ryan On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: My roommate is on unemployment. How do you feel it sucks? He goes to school ~12 hours a week and gets paid more then I take for salary with tuition paid. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:05 AM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: Obviously you have never been on unemployment. It sucks. ryan On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:12 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I heard that un-employment benefits recently got extended to 100 weeks Let's give the masses' more reason to not go find a job. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto: wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids Wow, you're 22 and think like that?!?! I thought that mindset was dated! Just come help with the family business and I'll make sure you eat, have a place to sleep, get a percentage of the profits :) On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: What would my allowance be with no chores? Another big thing...I never got an allowance. I worked for my money (odd jobs, helping people out, etc.)Before Rick that is. IMO it's crap. Giving a child money to do what is expected (help cleaning and keeping up the house) just makes no sense. Both my parents came from a farm - work all day every day and in turn food and a bed. On 4/19/10, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Can I adopt you? :) On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Keep in mind I am 22 and have no kids. This is my personal point of view. My parents never set guidelines or many rules (just the basic things). I have never done any drugs. Been offered and been around them more then enough. Never smoked a cigarette in my life. Never drank until I was...very close to 21. Never got in any trouble at school. My first job led to the second job/career I have today. I enjoy my life, the people around me and the things I have. My partner has 3 teenage girls. He is extremely strict. One of them gets in to trouble, disobeys, does wrong things, etc. A friend I had in high school was in the same position. I know where that person's life stands today and I would say we could all agree it's not what we hoped our lives would be at 23 or 24. I'm not judging how you or anyone parent, but rather
Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids
Maybe I should lay myself off. Hmmm. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 12:12 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids I heard that un-employment benefits recently got extended to 100 weeks Let's give the masses' more reason to not go find a job. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids Wow, you're 22 and think like that?!?! I thought that mindset was dated! Just come help with the family business and I'll make sure you eat, have a place to sleep, get a percentage of the profits :) On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: What would my allowance be with no chores? Another big thing...I never got an allowance. I worked for my money (odd jobs, helping people out, etc.)Before Rick that is. IMO it's crap. Giving a child money to do what is expected (help cleaning and keeping up the house) just makes no sense. Both my parents came from a farm - work all day every day and in turn food and a bed. On 4/19/10, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Can I adopt you? :) On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Keep in mind I am 22 and have no kids. This is my personal point of view. My parents never set guidelines or many rules (just the basic things). I have never done any drugs. Been offered and been around them more then enough. Never smoked a cigarette in my life. Never drank until I was...very close to 21. Never got in any trouble at school. My first job led to the second job/career I have today. I enjoy my life, the people around me and the things I have. My partner has 3 teenage girls. He is extremely strict. One of them gets in to trouble, disobeys, does wrong things, etc. A friend I had in high school was in the same position. I know where that person's life stands today and I would say we could all agree it's not what we hoped our lives would be at 23 or 24. I'm not judging how you or anyone parent, but rather just providing you with my experiences, my results and my facts. Take the above for as much as you paid for it =) Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 1:26 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Josh, I truly enjoy your posts regarding wireless but but I disagree with this. Its not about trust. We are all human and make mistakes, especially kids. As parents, we are not to assume our kids are perfect. Therefore, we SHOULD expect them to do things that may hurt or be bad for them. The best thing to do is error on the side of safety, within reason. Just my opinion. On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Trust your kids and they will trust you back. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 11:32 AM, Paul Gerstenberger pa...@hrec.coop wrote: I have not done this (don't have kids), but there was some discussion at a workshop I was at recently. How about using an IDS/IPS on your home network. The brand that was discussed at the workshop was fortinet. Should let you intercept all those sorts of things. -Paul On Apr 13, 2010, at 10:49 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, Here's the scenario. My kids are expressly forbidden from having email addresses outside my domain. They are forbidden from having myspace, facebook etc. sites. If they want an email, fine by me, but it's one that *I* can check on. If they want a web site, fine by me, but make it a real one that *I* can delete things from. I'm trying to teach them to NOT do or say things on the internet that might bite them in the butt later. The days of people eventually forgetting the stupidity of youth or passion are long gone. Anyway, my 13 year old has a myspace account. He used a hotmail email address to get it. He had permission to use neither of them. I finally found out about the myspace account and went in to check out what he'd been saying. His trash and sent messages had both been erased between when I got the password out of him and when I had time to check on it. (I
Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids
Josh, You should never eat Cheetos while naked. Too cheesy. Lesson learned a long time ago. But then again, I have a cat. I guess that's was also part of the lesson. Don't eat cheetos naked AND own a cat. Okay. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:25 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids I like that idea way more then living comfortably. Sitting at home on the couch naked eating Cheetos provides minimal benefit to society. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:18 AM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: Yes, it depends on what you put in. Remember that unemployment is generally what you put in, to a point. The extensions that the feds put out are actually loans to your state that get paid back via unemployment taxes that you pay later. The system works as a basic safety net. I don't mind it.. I just sweat when I am on it. ryan On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:16 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Unemployment is dependent on your previous job from what I understand. He was in the Marines. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:13 AM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: How much is unemployment in OH? I max out here at 33% of my normal salary. I tell you I sweat and sweat trying to pick up my next gig. ryan On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: My roommate is on unemployment. How do you feel it sucks? He goes to school ~12 hours a week and gets paid more then I take for salary with tuition paid. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:05 AM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: Obviously you have never been on unemployment. It sucks. ryan On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:12 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I heard that un-employment benefits recently got extended to 100 weeks Let's give the masses' more reason to not go find a job. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto: wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids Wow, you're 22 and think like that?!?! I thought that mindset was dated! Just come help with the family business and I'll make sure you eat, have a place to sleep, get a percentage of the profits :) On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: What would my allowance be with no chores? Another big thing...I never got an allowance. I worked for my money (odd jobs, helping people out, etc.)Before Rick that is. IMO it's crap. Giving a child money to do what is expected (help cleaning and keeping up the house) just makes no sense. Both my parents came from a farm - work all day every day and in turn food and a bed. On 4/19/10, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Can I adopt you? :) On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Keep in mind I am 22 and have no kids. This is my personal point of view. My parents never set guidelines or many rules (just the basic things). I have never done any drugs. Been offered and been around them more then enough. Never smoked a cigarette in my life. Never drank until I was...very close to 21. Never got in any trouble at school. My first job led to the second job/career I have today. I enjoy my life, the people around me and the things I have. My partner has 3 teenage girls. He is extremely strict. One of them gets in to trouble, disobeys, does wrong things, etc. A friend I had in high school was in the same position. I know
Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids
To be clear, unemployment insurance is paid by employers, NOT employees. The you in those sentences is the company you work(ed) for. There are no deductions from employee paychecks for unemployment insurance. Dave -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Spott Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:19 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids Yes, it depends on what you put in. Remember that unemployment is generally what you put in, to a point. The extensions that the feds put out are actually loans to your state that get paid back via unemployment taxes that you pay later. The system works as a basic safety net. I don't mind it.. I just sweat when I am on it. ryan On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:16 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Unemployment is dependent on your previous job from what I understand. He was in the Marines. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:13 AM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: How much is unemployment in OH? I max out here at 33% of my normal salary. I tell you I sweat and sweat trying to pick up my next gig. ryan On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: My roommate is on unemployment. How do you feel it sucks? He goes to school ~12 hours a week and gets paid more then I take for salary with tuition paid. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:05 AM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: Obviously you have never been on unemployment. It sucks. ryan On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:12 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I heard that un-employment benefits recently got extended to 100 weeks Let's give the masses' more reason to not go find a job. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto: wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids Wow, you're 22 and think like that?!?! I thought that mindset was dated! Just come help with the family business and I'll make sure you eat, have a place to sleep, get a percentage of the profits :) On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: What would my allowance be with no chores? Another big thing...I never got an allowance. I worked for my money (odd jobs, helping people out, etc.)Before Rick that is. IMO it's crap. Giving a child money to do what is expected (help cleaning and keeping up the house) just makes no sense. Both my parents came from a farm - work all day every day and in turn food and a bed. On 4/19/10, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Can I adopt you? :) On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Keep in mind I am 22 and have no kids. This is my personal point of view. My parents never set guidelines or many rules (just the basic things). I have never done any drugs. Been offered and been around them more then enough. Never smoked a cigarette in my life. Never drank until I was...very close to 21. Never got in any trouble at school. My first job led to the second job/career I have today. I enjoy my life, the people around me and the things I have. My partner has 3 teenage girls. He is extremely strict. One of them gets in to trouble, disobeys, does wrong things, etc. A friend I had in high school was in the same position. I know where that person's life stands today and I would say we could all agree it's not what we hoped our lives would be at 23 or 24. I'm not judging how you or anyone parent, but rather just providing you with my experiences, my results and my facts. Take the above for as much as you paid for it =) Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to
Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids
It IS part of the overall cost of an employee, just like the SS and Medicare match. It is money that the employer does not have available to pay the employee a higher wage. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can) +1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David Sovereen Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:16 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids To be clear, unemployment insurance is paid by employers, NOT employees. The you in those sentences is the company you work(ed) for. There are no deductions from employee paychecks for unemployment insurance. Dave -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Spott Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:19 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids Yes, it depends on what you put in. Remember that unemployment is generally what you put in, to a point. The extensions that the feds put out are actually loans to your state that get paid back via unemployment taxes that you pay later. The system works as a basic safety net. I don't mind it.. I just sweat when I am on it. ryan On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:16 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Unemployment is dependent on your previous job from what I understand. He was in the Marines. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:13 AM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: How much is unemployment in OH? I max out here at 33% of my normal salary. I tell you I sweat and sweat trying to pick up my next gig. ryan On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: My roommate is on unemployment. How do you feel it sucks? He goes to school ~12 hours a week and gets paid more then I take for salary with tuition paid. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:05 AM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: Obviously you have never been on unemployment. It sucks. ryan On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:12 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I heard that un-employment benefits recently got extended to 100 weeks Let's give the masses' more reason to not go find a job. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto: wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids Wow, you're 22 and think like that?!?! I thought that mindset was dated! Just come help with the family business and I'll make sure you eat, have a place to sleep, get a percentage of the profits :) On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: What would my allowance be with no chores? Another big thing...I never got an allowance. I worked for my money (odd jobs, helping people out, etc.)Before Rick that is. IMO it's crap. Giving a child money to do what is expected (help cleaning and keeping up the house) just makes no sense. Both my parents came from a farm - work all day every day and in turn food and a bed. On 4/19/10, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Can I adopt you? :) On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Keep in mind I am 22 and have no kids. This is my personal point of view. My parents never set guidelines or many rules (just the basic things). I have never done any drugs. Been offered and been around them more then enough. Never smoked a cigarette in my life. Never drank until I was...very close to 21. Never got in any trouble at school. My first job led to the second job/career I have today. I enjoy my life, the people around me and the things I have. My partner has 3 teenage girls. He is extremely strict. One of them gets in to trouble, disobeys, does wrong things, etc. A friend I had in high school was in the same position. I know where that person's life stands today and I would say we
Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids
Exactly. This is why you should review any claim made by an ex employee and keep detailed records of why they left in case you need to dispute one. The more claims made against you, the higher your rates. Just because they are unemployed doesn't mean they can get unemployment. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David Sovereen Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:16 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids To be clear, unemployment insurance is paid by employers, NOT employees. The you in those sentences is the company you work(ed) for. There are no deductions from employee paychecks for unemployment insurance. Dave -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Spott Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:19 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids Yes, it depends on what you put in. Remember that unemployment is generally what you put in, to a point. The extensions that the feds put out are actually loans to your state that get paid back via unemployment taxes that you pay later. The system works as a basic safety net. I don't mind it.. I just sweat when I am on it. ryan On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:16 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Unemployment is dependent on your previous job from what I understand. He was in the Marines. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:13 AM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: How much is unemployment in OH? I max out here at 33% of my normal salary. I tell you I sweat and sweat trying to pick up my next gig. ryan On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: My roommate is on unemployment. How do you feel it sucks? He goes to school ~12 hours a week and gets paid more then I take for salary with tuition paid. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:05 AM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: Obviously you have never been on unemployment. It sucks. ryan On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:12 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I heard that un-employment benefits recently got extended to 100 weeks Let's give the masses' more reason to not go find a job. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto: wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids Wow, you're 22 and think like that?!?! I thought that mindset was dated! Just come help with the family business and I'll make sure you eat, have a place to sleep, get a percentage of the profits :) On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: What would my allowance be with no chores? Another big thing...I never got an allowance. I worked for my money (odd jobs, helping people out, etc.)Before Rick that is. IMO it's crap. Giving a child money to do what is expected (help cleaning and keeping up the house) just makes no sense. Both my parents came from a farm - work all day every day and in turn food and a bed. On 4/19/10, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Can I adopt you? :) On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Keep in mind I am 22 and have no kids. This is my personal point of view. My parents never set guidelines or many rules (just the basic things). I have never done any drugs. Been offered and been around them more then enough. Never smoked a cigarette in my life. Never drank until I was...very close to 21. Never got in any trouble at school. My first job led to the second job/career I have today. I enjoy my life, the people around me and the things I have. My partner has 3 teenage girls. He is extremely strict. One of them gets in to trouble, disobeys, does wrong things, etc. A friend I had in high school was in the same position. I know where that person's life stands today and I would
[WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA.The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a raid, they will essentially fail at the same time if installed at the same time. I have went as far as RMAing one that showed no issues and they replaced that one as well with no questions. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Logo5 image001.gif WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB?
Looking for options... Trango Apex is on top of my list for now. If that needs to change let me know... thanks. Kinda sticking to 11Ghz because I need to keep the dishes at 4ft or under. In Florida. Any other better options let me know. Thanks for your time Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB?
We just did a multi leg 11 Ghz system, 2 21 miles plus links. We are in rain zone N so lets see how they hold. Used Trango Apex with 4.75 dishes (Trango Branded) Rssi was as expected in the low 50's. Full 256 QAM (260 + Mbps) Did I mention both were over water? You cant go wrong with Trango o DW Horizon Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:24 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Looking for options... Trango Apex is on top of my list for now. If that needs to change let me know... thanks. Kinda sticking to 11Ghz because I need to keep the dishes at 4ft or under. In Florida. Any other better options let me know. Thanks for your time Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB?
Just curious, what about Ceragon? Any good/bad experience with them? Regards We just did a multi leg 11 Ghz system, 2 21 miles plus links. We are in rain zone N so lets see how they hold. Used Trango Apex with 4.75 dishes (Trango Branded) Rssi was as expected in the low 50's. Full 256 QAM (260 + Mbps) Did I mention both were over water? You cant go wrong with Trango o DW Horizon Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:24 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Looking for options... Trango Apex is on top of my list for now. If that needs to change let me know... thanks. Kinda sticking to 11Ghz because I need to keep the dishes at 4ft or under. In Florida. Any other better options let me know. Thanks for your time Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform s.r.l. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB?
Our 18GHz Ceragon has been rock solid, but it's only a 2 mile link we are using it on. Paolo Di Francesco wrote: Just curious, what about Ceragon? Any good/bad experience with them? Regards We just did a multi leg 11 Ghz system, 2 21 miles plus links. We are in rain zone N so lets see how they hold. Used Trango Apex with 4.75 dishes (Trango Branded) Rssi was as expected in the low 50's. Full 256 QAM (260 + Mbps) Did I mention both were over water? You cant go wrong with Trango o DW Horizon Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:24 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Looking for options... Trango Apex is on top of my list for now. If that needs to change let me know... thanks. Kinda sticking to 11Ghz because I need to keep the dishes at 4ft or under. In Florida. Any other better options let me know. Thanks for your time Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB?
Ceragon is great gear, but a good bit more expensive than Trango Apex. 11Ghz will easily rain fade at 20miles in our K or M rain zone. We have 14mile 11GHz links that have faded with rain I can't imagine Florida with a N rain zone (the worst rain zone in N America) will be a good place for a long 11Ghz path much less 20 mile path! I guess it just depends on what level of availability your path requires. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paolo Di Francesco Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:36 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Just curious, what about Ceragon? Any good/bad experience with them? Regards We just did a multi leg 11 Ghz system, 2 21 miles plus links. We are in rain zone N so lets see how they hold. Used Trango Apex with 4.75 dishes (Trango Branded) Rssi was as expected in the low 50's. Full 256 QAM (260 + Mbps) Did I mention both were over water? You cant go wrong with Trango o DW Horizon Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:24 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Looking for options... Trango Apex is on top of my list for now. If that needs to change let me know... thanks. Kinda sticking to 11Ghz because I need to keep the dishes at 4ft or under. In Florida. Any other better options let me know. Thanks for your time Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform s.r.l. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids
I've been unemployed a few times but not for long though as I always did WHATEVER it took to find a job or start my own gig. I cant stand not working. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:05 AM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: Obviously you have never been on unemployment. It sucks. ryan On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:12 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I heard that un-employment benefits recently got extended to 100 weeks Let's give the masses' more reason to not go find a job. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids Wow, you're 22 and think like that?!?! I thought that mindset was dated! Just come help with the family business and I'll make sure you eat, have a place to sleep, get a percentage of the profits :) On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: What would my allowance be with no chores? Another big thing...I never got an allowance. I worked for my money (odd jobs, helping people out, etc.)Before Rick that is. IMO it's crap. Giving a child money to do what is expected (help cleaning and keeping up the house) just makes no sense. Both my parents came from a farm - work all day every day and in turn food and a bed. On 4/19/10, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Can I adopt you? :) On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Keep in mind I am 22 and have no kids. This is my personal point of view. My parents never set guidelines or many rules (just the basic things). I have never done any drugs. Been offered and been around them more then enough. Never smoked a cigarette in my life. Never drank until I was...very close to 21. Never got in any trouble at school. My first job led to the second job/career I have today. I enjoy my life, the people around me and the things I have. My partner has 3 teenage girls. He is extremely strict. One of them gets in to trouble, disobeys, does wrong things, etc. A friend I had in high school was in the same position. I know where that person's life stands today and I would say we could all agree it's not what we hoped our lives would be at 23 or 24. I'm not judging how you or anyone parent, but rather just providing you with my experiences, my results and my facts. Take the above for as much as you paid for it =) Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 1:26 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Josh, I truly enjoy your posts regarding wireless but but I disagree with this. Its not about trust. We are all human and make mistakes, especially kids. As parents, we are not to assume our kids are perfect. Therefore, we SHOULD expect them to do things that may hurt or be bad for them. The best thing to do is error on the side of safety, within reason. Just my opinion. On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Trust your kids and they will trust you back. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 11:32 AM, Paul Gerstenberger pa...@hrec.coop wrote: I have not done this (don't have kids), but there was some discussion at a workshop I was at recently. How about using an IDS/IPS on your home network. The brand that was discussed at the workshop was fortinet. Should let you intercept all those sorts of things. -Paul On Apr 13, 2010, at 10:49 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, Here's the scenario. My kids are expressly forbidden from having email addresses outside my domain. They are forbidden from having myspace, facebook etc. sites. If they want an email, fine by me, but it's one that *I* can check on. If they want a web site, fine by me, but make it a real one that *I* can delete things from. I'm trying to teach them to NOT do or say things on the internet that might bite them in the butt later. The days of people eventually forgetting the stupidity of youth or passion are long gone. Anyway, my 13 year old has a myspace account. He used a hotmail email address to get it. He had permission to use neither of them. I finally found out about the myspace
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA. The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a raid, they will essentially fail at the same time if installed at the same time. I have went as far as RMAing one that showed no issues and they replaced that one as well with no questions. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Logo5 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
I've had really good luck with the Seagates for a long time now but china-mart finally caught up to them. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA. The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a raid, they will essentially fail at the same time if installed at the same time. I have went as far as RMAing one that showed no issues and they replaced that one as well with no questions. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Logo5 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
I so wholeheartedly agree on not using Seacrates. It was a sad, sad day when the bought/ruined Maxtor. * Larry A. Weidig (lwei...@excel.net) * Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/ * (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area * (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA. The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a raid, they will essentially fail at the same time if installed at the same time. I have went as far as RMAing one that showed no issues and they replaced that one as well with no questions. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Logo5 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] atmail mail server or similar products
Hi All, I am giving a look to some email server in-house applications. One is atmail (atmail.com) which is a rebranded-zimbra (or it looks to be similar). They have an ISP license, so I was thinking that maybe you can tell me your success/horror stories with in-house products. At the moment I am not thinking of hosted services, so the in-house looks the only solution. Suggestions are very welcome ;) -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform s.r.l. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids
I was laid off so many times I cant even begin to count. It was all part of the plan they had Lay off, call back when unemployment was about to expire, work long enough to get unemployment, lay off again.. My first job out of high school was with the state. One of those that you are supposed to be able to have for the rest of your life. Nope. Lay off, lay off, lay off. I gave up on iot and moved on, ran my own businesses for awhile then worked for CAT. Another job for life. Lay off, lay off, lay off. Moved to New York to work for Cat Lay off. I was DONE! Working for yourself might suck but at least I'm the one who mostly controls the level of suck. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:07 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids I've been unemployed a few times but not for long though as I always did WHATEVER it took to find a job or start my own gig. I cant stand not working. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:05 AM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: Obviously you have never been on unemployment. It sucks. ryan On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:12 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I heard that un-employment benefits recently got extended to 100 weeks Let's give the masses' more reason to not go find a job. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] how to protect your kids Wow, you're 22 and think like that?!?! I thought that mindset was dated! Just come help with the family business and I'll make sure you eat, have a place to sleep, get a percentage of the profits :) On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: What would my allowance be with no chores? Another big thing...I never got an allowance. I worked for my money (odd jobs, helping people out, etc.)Before Rick that is. IMO it's crap. Giving a child money to do what is expected (help cleaning and keeping up the house) just makes no sense. Both my parents came from a farm - work all day every day and in turn food and a bed. On 4/19/10, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Can I adopt you? :) On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Keep in mind I am 22 and have no kids. This is my personal point of view. My parents never set guidelines or many rules (just the basic things). I have never done any drugs. Been offered and been around them more then enough. Never smoked a cigarette in my life. Never drank until I was...very close to 21. Never got in any trouble at school. My first job led to the second job/career I have today. I enjoy my life, the people around me and the things I have. My partner has 3 teenage girls. He is extremely strict. One of them gets in to trouble, disobeys, does wrong things, etc. A friend I had in high school was in the same position. I know where that person's life stands today and I would say we could all agree it's not what we hoped our lives would be at 23 or 24. I'm not judging how you or anyone parent, but rather just providing you with my experiences, my results and my facts. Take the above for as much as you paid for it =) Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 1:26 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Josh, I truly enjoy your posts regarding wireless but but I disagree with this. Its not about trust. We are all human and make mistakes, especially kids. As parents, we are not to assume our kids are perfect. Therefore, we SHOULD expect them to do things that may hurt or be bad for them. The best thing to do is error on the side of safety, within reason. Just my opinion. On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Trust your kids and they will trust you back. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 11:32 AM, Paul Gerstenberger pa...@hrec.coop wrote: I have not done this (don't have kids), but there was some discussion at a workshop I was at recently. How about using an IDS/IPS on your home network. The brand that was discussed at the workshop was fortinet. Should let you intercept
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
I second that one. And now Maxtor is treated as the second rate product by them. If you cant compete, buy em! -Bill Gates -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Larry A Weidig Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives I so wholeheartedly agree on not using Seacrates. It was a sad, sad day when the bought/ruined Maxtor. * Larry A. Weidig (lwei...@excel.net) * Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/ * (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area * (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA. The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a raid, they will essentially fail at the same time if installed at the same time. I have went as far as RMAing one that showed no issues and they replaced that one as well with no questions. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Logo5 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
In 25+ years of experience, Seagates Maxtors have always been a let down. Western Digital is the best. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I've had really good luck with the Seagates for a long time now but china-mart finally caught up to them. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA. The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a raid, they will essentially fail at the same time if installed at the same time. I have went as far as RMAing one that showed no issues and they replaced that one as well with no questions. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Logo5 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] atmail mail server or similar products
Unless your set on a Linux platform smartermail is a excellent platform, fairly affordable and very good functionalities and features as close to enterprise type software without being considered enterprise. If you're looking for Linux only solution then qmail-toaster is an excellent Opensource platform with excellent functions and capabilities, easy to install and maintain. Qmail-toaster is what we tend to install on our Linux virtual servers for our clients. / Eje Follow us on http://www.twitter.com/wisprouter -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paolo Di Francesco Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] atmail mail server or similar products Hi All, I am giving a look to some email server in-house applications. One is atmail (atmail.com) which is a rebranded-zimbra (or it looks to be similar). They have an ISP license, so I was thinking that maybe you can tell me your success/horror stories with in-house products. At the moment I am not thinking of hosted services, so the in-house looks the only solution. Suggestions are very welcome ;) -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform s.r.l. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB?
We have 10 Ceragon links in a mixture of 11Ghz and 6Ghz (low band). The issues we have had are either cryptic enough that Ceragon themselves has no idea what to do about it or their support just flat out sucks. Here is the list: - We paid for 200mbit license, however the radios seem to max out at 155mbps (they are an STM radio after all). - We have several radios that are not able to output full power it seems. We have a few 6Ghz links that output 30dB while others cannot go above 26dB. Same radio model, same outdoor gear, same cables etc. Ceragon had no answer. When asked about why the links were not able to do this the answer we received in the field was It's a 50/50 shot. Awesome. Thanks Ceragon. - Ceragon radios with the 10/100 Ethernet interface do not have traffic counters in SNMP. Graphing of traffic must be done via a switch port. - Ceragon support always seems to be either stumped or the person who has the answers to our questions is always out of the office. - I have yet to receive a proper response on exactly what the procedure is to upgrade firmware on the radios. We have several with issues that Ceragon explained are fixed in newer firmware. No idea where to actually GET the firmware either and support seemed clueless about that as well last time I called. The issue we see is that after upgraded to a Gigabit Ethernet interface, we are still unable to get higher than 100mbit/s on our radios licensed for 200mbit/s. Ceragon fixed one of them but we still can only get 155mbit/s out of it. They never told us what they did to fix it and I could never reach the tech who did the work either. I will say this, the links that work properly are fairly rock solid. We have had a couple RFU units die off due to them transmitting at 100% power 100% of the time in order to stay linked up. That is with ATPC enabled. We could never get an answer on that issue either (the antennas were DEAD on alignment). -- Adam Kennedy Network Engineer Omnicity, Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paolo Di Francesco Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:36 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Just curious, what about Ceragon? Any good/bad experience with them? Regards We just did a multi leg 11 Ghz system, 2 21 miles plus links. We are in rain zone N so lets see how they hold. Used Trango Apex with 4.75 dishes (Trango Branded) Rssi was as expected in the low 50's. Full 256 QAM (260 + Mbps) Did I mention both were over water? You cant go wrong with Trango o DW Horizon Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:24 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Looking for options... Trango Apex is on top of my list for now. If that needs to change let me know... thanks. Kinda sticking to 11Ghz because I need to keep the dishes at 4ft or under. In Florida. Any other better options let me know. Thanks for your time Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform s.r.l. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
Funny We find just the opposite. WD for us has always been a dud. One thing we learned a long long time ago however is to purchase drives from different vendors / distributors Placing in a harddrive right next to another hard drive from the same production batch is not wise... If your going to Raid - get drives that are not closely enough related to the same production line Also - make sure your seagate is a seagate ! We found the WD ones we were using were not ... even though we got them off of a well known shelf Glenn WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 09:09, Larry A Weidig lwei...@excel.net wrote: I so wholeheartedly agree on not using Seacrates. It was a sad, sad day when the bought/ruined Maxtor. I've never had anything but bad luck from Maxtor drives going back to the mid-1990s. Yay for anecdotal evidence! Seriously, I've been happy with Seagate drives generally. Also Western Digital. Heck, even the couple Maxtor drives I had in college that died on me, worked fine for a couple years before they started sounding like Pac-Man on a bender. Everyone has their favorite and least-favorite brands, but I've never really seen any large-scale differences in reliability on hard drives, aside from the occasional defective design (like the IBM Deathstars, er, Deskstars of 2000-or-so). David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
Where do you guys buy your drives from that you have had such good luck with WD and not Seagate? Since 1994 I have had countless failures with Maxtor and Western Digital disks. In fact just a few weeks ago I had TWO Western Digitals fail in the same server and they were Raid Edition disks! In my lifetime I have had maybe two Seagate drives fail. It also makes a huge difference, with any brand, what model of drive you buy. If you buy a cheap version of any of them then you are just asking for issues. Western digital I would stick with anything Black edition or better. Seagate I would stick with anything XT or better. Avoid the cheapy versions of anything, most of the time those cheapy disks are not tested before leaving the factory. -- Adam Kennedy Network Engineer Omnicity, Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives In 25+ years of experience, Seagates Maxtors have always been a let down. Western Digital is the best. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I've had really good luck with the Seagates for a long time now but china-mart finally caught up to them. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA.The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a raid, they will essentially fail at the same time if installed at the same time. I have went as far as RMAing one that showed no issues and they replaced that one as well with no questions. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Logo5 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
Very good advice, especially when running a Raid. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Kelley Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:19 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Funny We find just the opposite. WD for us has always been a dud. One thing we learned a long long time ago however is to purchase drives from different vendors / distributors Placing in a harddrive right next to another hard drive from the same production batch is not wise... If your going to Raid - get drives that are not closely enough related to the same production line Also - make sure your seagate is a seagate ! We found the WD ones we were using were not ... even though we got them off of a well known shelf Glenn WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
Long time ago, I got burned bad buying IBM deathstar drives. IBM is a good conservative choice right? Seagate has long been the troublefree conservative choice. I still prefer seagate and consider them a somewhat safe bet, despite the race to zero quality in that industry. However, some of their newer drives are less reliable based on other people's experience with them. I have tried samsung twice over the past couple years. Disaster. 1 DOA, 1 died in no time. I gave away the first replacement drive. Didn't bother to RMA the second. Recently bought some western digital 1tb 'green' drives. 1 was DOA. 1 is working in a server. I relegated the replacement drive to a techdesk desktop machine. I've got a cart full of old hard drives (must be at least 80 of them). About half IBMs, half seagate and others. If I take a 40-80gb drive out of a machine, it's not worth my while to securely wipe out the data and sell it, so they just pile up. Someday I'll play dominoes with them or make something one of a kind with a tig welder. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:07:38AM -0400, RickG wrote: Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA. The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a raid, they will essentially fail at the same time if installed at the same time. I have went as far as RMAing one that showed no issues and they replaced that one as well with no questions. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Logo5 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] atmail mail server or similar products
We have used Atmail for a few years now. The server seems to be pretty stable, we haven't had any terrible issues. We did have a pretty weird issue when we first started using them that took awhile for them to fix, but they got it fixed. Our customers love it and it just seems to keep on trucking. I would recommend it. -- Adam Kennedy Network Engineer Omnicity, Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paolo Di Francesco Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] atmail mail server or similar products Hi All, I am giving a look to some email server in-house applications. One is atmail (atmail.com) which is a rebranded-zimbra (or it looks to be similar). They have an ISP license, so I was thinking that maybe you can tell me your success/horror stories with in-house products. At the moment I am not thinking of hosted services, so the in-house looks the only solution. Suggestions are very welcome ;) -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform s.r.l. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
Same goes for the Seagate SAS drives, as well. I only had need to buy 4 of them. One was DOA. 2 died after less than 6 months of use and the other went a whole 2 years. Not good. Gave up on the SAS. I gave 3 of them away to a customer to upgrade his autocad server and the other is here at the bottom of my pile. Big $$$ waste. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of jp Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 11:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Long time ago, I got burned bad buying IBM deathstar drives. IBM is a good conservative choice right? Seagate has long been the troublefree conservative choice. I still prefer seagate and consider them a somewhat safe bet, despite the race to zero quality in that industry. However, some of their newer drives are less reliable based on other people's experience with them. I have tried samsung twice over the past couple years. Disaster. 1 DOA, 1 died in no time. I gave away the first replacement drive. Didn't bother to RMA the second. Recently bought some western digital 1tb 'green' drives. 1 was DOA. 1 is working in a server. I relegated the replacement drive to a techdesk desktop machine. I've got a cart full of old hard drives (must be at least 80 of them). About half IBMs, half seagate and others. If I take a 40-80gb drive out of a machine, it's not worth my while to securely wipe out the data and sell it, so they just pile up. Someday I'll play dominoes with them or make something one of a kind with a tig welder. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:07:38AM -0400, RickG wrote: Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA. The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a raid, they will essentially fail at the same time if installed at the same time. I have went as far as RMAing one that showed no issues and they replaced that one as well with no questions. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Logo5 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VoIP
There are several outsourced solutions out there that are on a per subscriber per month basis. They allow for a profit from day one. -Layne Layne Sisk ServerPlus From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org on behalf of Kevin Sullivan Sent: Mon 4/19/2010 9:33 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] VoIP We'd like to start offering VoIP to our wireless customers, and we've taken a look at a couple of packaged soultions like NetSapiens. What is everyone else using? We'd like to start at a lower $$ than the $17,000 that we've been hearing from the packaged deals. Kevin WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ winmail.dat WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB?
Only good experience with them. The radios just work. Some were 11 GHz, some were 18 GHz, only one or two 7.5 GHz. Throughput matched the nominal 200/300/400 Mbps for small packets; for large packets, 170 out of 200 Mbps and 360 out of 400 Mbps; those values are consistent with IP-based (not SDH/PDH) radios (they are not 140 or 155 Mbps multiples), but is the total opposite of what we would usually expect, as it is easier for the radio to deal with small packets, not harder. Considering the Internet traffic has 50% of 64 bytes packets, that would make the I-mix throughput pretty close to nominal; the monitoring software has RMON capabilities so you can see your packet size distribution in real time. Adaptive modulation worked hitless for reducing speed during rain periods, but not every time it would go up again. It was a 50-50 chance that ACM would bring the modulation up again, so it's an index you want to be looking at your NOC. We did some firmware upgrades without issues; license upgrades were trickier and sometimes Ceragon had to generate license files again after we've sent the output from the failed upgrades. Except for 7.5 GHz units all the models had integrated antennas; we regret boughting those from RFS instead of Andrew, but Ceragon offered both and the decision was based on price... :-( Rubens On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Paolo Di Francesco paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote: Just curious, what about Ceragon? Any good/bad experience with them? Regards We just did a multi leg 11 Ghz system, 2 21 miles plus links. We are in rain zone N so lets see how they hold. Used Trango Apex with 4.75 dishes (Trango Branded) Rssi was as expected in the low 50's. Full 256 QAM (260 + Mbps) Did I mention both were over water? You cant go wrong with Trango o DW Horizon Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:24 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Looking for options... Trango Apex is on top of my list for now. If that needs to change let me know... thanks. Kinda sticking to 11Ghz because I need to keep the dishes at 4ft or under. In Florida. Any other better options let me know. Thanks for your time Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform s.r.l. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [OFFLIST] atmail mail server or similar products
If you are looking for a cheap solution as well, here is another option. Very scalable. paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, Mikrotik Certified Trainer, MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCUME Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paolo Di Francesco Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] atmail mail server or similar products Hi All, I am giving a look to some email server in-house applications. One is atmail (atmail.com) which is a rebranded-zimbra (or it looks to be similar). They have an ISP license, so I was thinking that maybe you can tell me your success/horror stories with in-house products. At the moment I am not thinking of hosted services, so the in-house looks the only solution. Suggestions are very welcome ;) -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform s.r.l. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
I gave up on Western Digital and Maxtor YEARS ago from experience and went to 100% Seagate. I was very happy with them all these years until the past 2 years when their drives started showing up in Wal-Mart with a Low Price. Since then I've had lots of failures and RMA's. I buy a lot of drives and I only buy the retail version, never the OEM, so I've had a good chance to get bad ones. The problem seems to be a change in their production. Parts made in this country, assembled in another, flashed in yet another.. Maybe the economics work for them but the quality is failing. The issue with these particular drives... The circuit board was flashed, sent to another factory and married up with the wrong drive. From what I understand, the errors start to build up to the point that the firmware locks it out. I was able to TFTP into one of the drives, they are serial after all, and reset it in order to get some info off the drive (Seagate will charge 40 bucks to that for me even though they caused the problem) but it's really getting hard to find quality anymore in PC hardware. That's my rant for the day. Low prices. Always. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Kennedy Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Where do you guys buy your drives from that you have had such good luck with WD and not Seagate? Since 1994 I have had countless failures with Maxtor and Western Digital disks. In fact just a few weeks ago I had TWO Western Digitals fail in the same server and they were Raid Edition disks! In my lifetime I have had maybe two Seagate drives fail. It also makes a huge difference, with any brand, what model of drive you buy. If you buy a cheap version of any of them then you are just asking for issues. Western digital I would stick with anything Black edition or better. Seagate I would stick with anything XT or better. Avoid the cheapy versions of anything, most of the time those cheapy disks are not tested before leaving the factory. -- Adam Kennedy Network Engineer Omnicity, Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives In 25+ years of experience, Seagates Maxtors have always been a let down. Western Digital is the best. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I've had really good luck with the Seagates for a long time now but china-mart finally caught up to them. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA.The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a raid, they will essentially fail at the same time if installed at the same time. I have went as far as RMAing one that showed no issues and they replaced that one as well with no questions. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Logo5 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz?
I have no experience with 802.16e, but have lots with 802.16d. 16d does not support MIMO. However, even without MIMO, we are ripping out 900/5.x and putting in Alvarion .16d. The diversity alone gives it penetration characteristics equal to or better than 900. WiMax does cost more, as we all know, but it also supports more clients (we're projecting close to 200 per base station. I hope we're right... ;-). We can't put it in where 900 is serving just a few customers. Chuck On Apr 19, 2010, at 9:09 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [OFFLIST] atmail mail server or similar products
well guess I will try that agaon . sorry all. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, Mikrotik Certified Trainer, MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCUME Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [OFFLIST] atmail mail server or similar products If you are looking for a cheap solution as well, here is another option. Very scalable. paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, Mikrotik Certified Trainer, MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCUME Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paolo Di Francesco Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] atmail mail server or similar products Hi All, I am giving a look to some email server in-house applications. One is atmail (atmail.com) which is a rebranded-zimbra (or it looks to be similar). They have an ISP license, so I was thinking that maybe you can tell me your success/horror stories with in-house products. At the moment I am not thinking of hosted services, so the in-house looks the only solution. Suggestions are very welcome ;) -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform s.r.l. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz?
We did not find that WiMax in general was better than 900. The key isn't WiMax, per se, but diversity antennas. Performance is *helped* by being 3.65 WiMax but that alone does NOT obviate the need for 900 in our experience. Diversity is key. Chuck On Apr 19, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Jeremie Chism wrote: I am not using alvarion 3.65 but I am using wimax. I have a couple customers with lower modulation because of non line of site situations and have seen no impact on the entire system in general. Supposedly wimax is engineered to handle some of this better than my alvarion 900. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:15 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: That would only be true if the data services are somewhat purpose-specific and not Internet access. Doing what this vendor told you would seriously affect aggregate performance of the cell because of low rate modulation of the NLOS and/or distant customers. If you are doing sensor networks or POS connection you will be fine with all those BPSK/QPSK customers, indeed. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
In all fairness It not appropriate to single out a HDD by a broad part number like 7200.11. That part number alone would likely have many revs which would slightly differ, and each firmware would could have significantly different compatibility issues. The Seagate Barracuda has always been a respected and high quality drive brand. But just like any product can have a bad batch or idiosyncracies in this Complex PC world. Specifically note that 7200.11 series support NCQ, a feature that improves both performance and drive life, rarely found in a desktop HDD. Yes, the 7200.11 is specifiied as a DESKTOP Class drive NOT a SERVER Class RAID drive, so it should used under such expections and applications. Although it is specified for Desktop RAID. However, for drives that fail in a raid, I rarely blaim HDDs themselves for the failure of raid. I'd argue that Desktop raid solutions are pretty much Crap, and the ones based on PRomise chipsets really cant be relied on for anything important. I cant count how many raid solutions we've been exposed to that failed killing more than 1 drive in the raid at once, resulting in data loss. (and Not necessarilly with Seagate drives, we also use WD heavilly). For this reason, we almost always now will chose basic mirroring over complex Raid, for all applications, expect extreme cases that really need a large amount of capacity, and for those applications we often mirror the raid sets. They just dont make quality Raid controllers like they used to do in the SCSI days. We have been very successful with Seagate Barracudas in our mirrored systems. We usually will use Linux of Microsoft native Software mirroring, not hardware based. So if you had a bad batch of Seagate, I dont doubt that, but we should not condemn the product line in general, and if anything, we shoudl praise Seagate for having a RMA department that is so easy to work with and willing to replace drives with no questions asked. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA. The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a raid, they will essentially fail at the same time if installed at the same time. I have went as far as RMAing one that showed no issues and they replaced that one as well with no questions. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Logo5 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
Something else that many people gloss over or do not know, is that most HDs from small retail vendors (Newegg, Walmart, TigerDirect, et al) have been picked over already by larger corporations, failed the QA, sent back to $.Manuf, Pass their QA, and sent into the retail chain. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 7:48 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Same goes for the Seagate SAS drives, as well. I only had need to buy 4 of them. One was DOA. 2 died after less than 6 months of use and the other went a whole 2 years. Not good. Gave up on the SAS. I gave 3 of them away to a customer to upgrade his autocad server and the other is here at the bottom of my pile. Big $$$ waste. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of jp Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 11:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Long time ago, I got burned bad buying IBM deathstar drives. IBM is a good conservative choice right? Seagate has long been the troublefree conservative choice. I still prefer seagate and consider them a somewhat safe bet, despite the race to zero quality in that industry. However, some of their newer drives are less reliable based on other people's experience with them. I have tried samsung twice over the past couple years. Disaster. 1 DOA, 1 died in no time. I gave away the first replacement drive. Didn't bother to RMA the second. Recently bought some western digital 1tb 'green' drives. 1 was DOA. 1 is working in a server. I relegated the replacement drive to a techdesk desktop machine. I've got a cart full of old hard drives (must be at least 80 of them). About half IBMs, half seagate and others. If I take a 40-80gb drive out of a machine, it's not worth my while to securely wipe out the data and sell it, so they just pile up. Someday I'll play dominoes with them or make something one of a kind with a tig welder. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:07:38AM -0400, RickG wrote: Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA. The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a raid, they will essentially fail at the same time if installed at the same time. I have went as far as RMAing one that showed no issues and they replaced that one as well with no questions. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Logo5 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ | Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Maine http://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
Well if some 7200.11 drives are bad I don't have the time to pick and choose between revs and serial numbers. Seagate screwed me I'm finding a different company that makes good a product. Would you buy a Toyota Camry if some of them were not built to spec? On 4/20/10, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: In all fairness It not appropriate to single out a HDD by a broad part number like 7200.11. That part number alone would likely have many revs which would slightly differ, and each firmware would could have significantly different compatibility issues. The Seagate Barracuda has always been a respected and high quality drive brand. But just like any product can have a bad batch or idiosyncracies in this Complex PC world. Specifically note that 7200.11 series support NCQ, a feature that improves both performance and drive life, rarely found in a desktop HDD. Yes, the 7200.11 is specifiied as a DESKTOP Class drive NOT a SERVER Class RAID drive, so it should used under such expections and applications. Although it is specified for Desktop RAID. However, for drives that fail in a raid, I rarely blaim HDDs themselves for the failure of raid. I'd argue that Desktop raid solutions are pretty much Crap, and the ones based on PRomise chipsets really cant be relied on for anything important. I cant count how many raid solutions we've been exposed to that failed killing more than 1 drive in the raid at once, resulting in data loss. (and Not necessarilly with Seagate drives, we also use WD heavilly). For this reason, we almost always now will chose basic mirroring over complex Raid, for all applications, expect extreme cases that really need a large amount of capacity, and for those applications we often mirror the raid sets. They just dont make quality Raid controllers like they used to do in the SCSI days. We have been very successful with Seagate Barracudas in our mirrored systems. We usually will use Linux of Microsoft native Software mirroring, not hardware based. So if you had a bad batch of Seagate, I dont doubt that, but we should not condemn the product line in general, and if anything, we shoudl praise Seagate for having a RMA department that is so easy to work with and willing to replace drives with no questions asked. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA. The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a raid, they will essentially fail at the same time if installed at the same time. I have went as far as RMAing one that showed no issues and they replaced that one as well with no questions. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Logo5 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman
Re: [WISPA] [OFFLIST] atmail mail server or similar products
If you fail at going offlist once, try try again! Sooner or later you may get it right :) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 11:07 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [OFFLIST] atmail mail server or similar products well guess I will try that agaon . sorry all. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, Mikrotik Certified Trainer, MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCUME Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [OFFLIST] atmail mail server or similar products If you are looking for a cheap solution as well, here is another option. Very scalable. paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, Mikrotik Certified Trainer, MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCUME Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paolo Di Francesco Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] atmail mail server or similar products Hi All, I am giving a look to some email server in-house applications. One is atmail (atmail.com) which is a rebranded-zimbra (or it looks to be similar). They have an ISP license, so I was thinking that maybe you can tell me your success/horror stories with in-house products. At the moment I am not thinking of hosted services, so the in-house looks the only solution. Suggestions are very welcome ;) -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform s.r.l. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2821 - Release Date: 04/19/10 18:31:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [OFFLIST] atmail mail server or similar products
yep.. lol. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, Mikrotik Certified Trainer, MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCUME Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:39 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] [OFFLIST] atmail mail server or similar products If you fail at going offlist once, try try again! Sooner or later you may get it right :) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 11:07 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [OFFLIST] atmail mail server or similar products well guess I will try that agaon . sorry all. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, Mikrotik Certified Trainer, MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCUME Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [OFFLIST] atmail mail server or similar products If you are looking for a cheap solution as well, here is another option. Very scalable. paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, Mikrotik Certified Trainer, MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCUME Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paolo Di Francesco Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] atmail mail server or similar products Hi All, I am giving a look to some email server in-house applications. One is atmail (atmail.com) which is a rebranded-zimbra (or it looks to be similar). They have an ISP license, so I was thinking that maybe you can tell me your success/horror stories with in-house products. At the moment I am not thinking of hosted services, so the in-house looks the only solution. Suggestions are very welcome ;) -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform s.r.l. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2821 - Release Date: 04/19/10 18:31:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
You mean how Chevrolet built the various models of Malibu that sucked, but the one with the v8 was fine? Yep, I would buy the v8 and avoid the bad sub-models of Malibu. -- Adam Kennedy Network Engineer Omnicity, Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 11:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Well if some 7200.11 drives are bad I don't have the time to pick and choose between revs and serial numbers. Seagate screwed me I'm finding a different company that makes good a product. Would you buy a Toyota Camry if some of them were not built to spec? On 4/20/10, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: In all fairness It not appropriate to single out a HDD by a broad part number like 7200.11. That part number alone would likely have many revs which would slightly differ, and each firmware would could have significantly different compatibility issues. The Seagate Barracuda has always been a respected and high quality drive brand. But just like any product can have a bad batch or idiosyncracies in this Complex PC world. Specifically note that 7200.11 series support NCQ, a feature that improves both performance and drive life, rarely found in a desktop HDD. Yes, the 7200.11 is specifiied as a DESKTOP Class drive NOT a SERVER Class RAID drive, so it should used under such expections and applications. Although it is specified for Desktop RAID. However, for drives that fail in a raid, I rarely blaim HDDs themselves for the failure of raid. I'd argue that Desktop raid solutions are pretty much Crap, and the ones based on PRomise chipsets really cant be relied on for anything important. I cant count how many raid solutions we've been exposed to that failed killing more than 1 drive in the raid at once, resulting in data loss. (and Not necessarilly with Seagate drives, we also use WD heavilly). For this reason, we almost always now will chose basic mirroring over complex Raid, for all applications, expect extreme cases that really need a large amount of capacity, and for those applications we often mirror the raid sets. They just dont make quality Raid controllers like they used to do in the SCSI days. We have been very successful with Seagate Barracudas in our mirrored systems. We usually will use Linux of Microsoft native Software mirroring, not hardware based. So if you had a bad batch of Seagate, I dont doubt that, but we should not condemn the product line in general, and if anything, we shoudl praise Seagate for having a RMA department that is so easy to work with and willing to replace drives with no questions asked. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA. The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a raid, they will essentially fail at the same time if installed at the same time. I have went as far as RMAing one that showed no issues and they replaced that one as well with no questions. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Logo5 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
As a system builder. I disagree. I have sold seagate drives for 18 years. I built over 200 systems last year. I had 2 I had to RMA. I have returned 20% of Wd and 30% of hitachi. I will stay with Seagate. Get a good distributor like ASI . Steve On 4/20/10, Adam Kennedy adamkenn...@omnicity.net wrote: Where do you guys buy your drives from that you have had such good luck with WD and not Seagate? Since 1994 I have had countless failures with Maxtor and Western Digital disks. In fact just a few weeks ago I had TWO Western Digitals fail in the same server and they were Raid Edition disks! In my lifetime I have had maybe two Seagate drives fail. It also makes a huge difference, with any brand, what model of drive you buy. If you buy a cheap version of any of them then you are just asking for issues. Western digital I would stick with anything Black edition or better. Seagate I would stick with anything XT or better. Avoid the cheapy versions of anything, most of the time those cheapy disks are not tested before leaving the factory. -- Adam Kennedy Network Engineer Omnicity, Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives In 25+ years of experience, Seagates Maxtors have always been a let down. Western Digital is the best. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I've had really good luck with the Seagates for a long time now but china-mart finally caught up to them. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA.The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a raid, they will essentially fail at the same time if installed at the same time. I have went as far as RMAing one that showed no issues and they replaced that one as well with no questions. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Logo5 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
I agree that different revisions/hardware versions can make all the difference. The Seagate 1.5TB drives were terrible out of the gates but since then the product has greatly improved and we employ several with no trouble. We knew going into purchasing them that we needed to get a certain fw version, etc so it took some research. It's a shame it came to where you had to specifically seek out certain revisions of a series, but it's the similar to researching/finding the right firmware/software for your needs, too. The same goes for Microsoft's Xbox 360 -- it's a great product, but for the, what, first two years? the failure rate on those was astronomical. Finally the Falcon and Jasper revisions made it 'safe' to buy one. In a perfect world a product would be released and rock solid for its intended lifetime but that just simply isn't the case for a myriad of factors. On 4/20/2010 11:47, Adam Kennedy wrote: You mean how Chevrolet built the various models of Malibu that sucked, but the one with the v8 was fine? Yep, I would buy the v8 and avoid the bad sub-models of Malibu. -- Adam Kennedy Network Engineer Omnicity, Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 11:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Well if some 7200.11 drives are bad I don't have the time to pick and choose between revs and serial numbers. Seagate screwed me I'm finding a different company that makes good a product. Would you buy a Toyota Camry if some of them were not built to spec? On 4/20/10, Tom DeReggiwirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: In all fairness It not appropriate to single out a HDD by a broad part number like 7200.11. That part number alone would likely have many revs which would slightly differ, and each firmware would could have significantly different compatibility issues. The Seagate Barracuda has always been a respected and high quality drive brand. But just like any product can have a bad batch or idiosyncracies in this Complex PC world. Specifically note that 7200.11 series support NCQ, a feature that improves both performance and drive life, rarely found in a desktop HDD. Yes, the 7200.11 is specifiied as a DESKTOP Class drive NOT a SERVER Class RAID drive, so it should used under such expections and applications. Although it is specified for Desktop RAID. However, for drives that fail in a raid, I rarely blaim HDDs themselves for the failure of raid. I'd argue that Desktop raid solutions are pretty much Crap, and the ones based on PRomise chipsets really cant be relied on for anything important. I cant count how many raid solutions we've been exposed to that failed killing more than 1 drive in the raid at once, resulting in data loss. (and Not necessarilly with Seagate drives, we also use WD heavilly). For this reason, we almost always now will chose basic mirroring over complex Raid, for all applications, expect extreme cases that really need a large amount of capacity, and for those applications we often mirror the raid sets. They just dont make quality Raid controllers like they used to do in the SCSI days. We have been very successful with Seagate Barracudas in our mirrored systems. We usually will use Linux of Microsoft native Software mirroring, not hardware based. So if you had a bad batch of Seagate, I dont doubt that, but we should not condemn the product line in general, and if anything, we shoudl praise Seagate for having a RMA department that is so easy to work with and willing to replace drives with no questions asked. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: RickGrgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert Westrobert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA. The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a raid, they will essentially fail at the same time if installed at
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz?
Yes but. Diversity does not necessarilly yield the same percentage improvement in bands like 900Mhz as it does in 2.4, 3,6 and 5.8. When we field tested Aperto Pre-Wimax in 5.8 a few years back, we learned a bit on Polarity diversity. Aperto had a really cool tool that measured both pols side by side, and you could watch the Polarity shift in varying amounts over time (combined with effects from fade and multipath), by watching the RSSI change on each polarty individually and having it graphed. It was amazing to see how much it varied between pols and how much it changed over time (meaning seconds), a huge amount. It was a sure testimonial for benefit of Pol diversity in reflective areas, in low noise areas. (note we chose not to use it because in high noise congested areas it was more important to have polarity isolation to enable more channel use and avoid noise, and at the time we thought AP was to expensive for a 6mhz channel). WaveRider replicated the idea in 900Mhz with their peanut shaped diversity CPE, understanding that polarity rotated as obstacles were hit. But I'm not sure that we really noticed that much improvement in our Waverider 900Mhz diversity trials. Again, polarity isolation yielded so much more benefit than the minor benefit 900 showed with pol diversity. I do not know whether Alvarion 16.d uses pol or spatial diversity or other more complex method. But what we learned from Chuck's trials was that what ever it was, it made a huge difference in his 3.65 diversity trials. My point here is that Diversity can make a huge difference, diversity is the differenciator, but that the benefit of diversity can vary dependant on the Freq used and environment tackling, based on past experience. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz? We did not find that WiMax in general was better than 900. The key isn't WiMax, per se, but diversity antennas. Performance is *helped* by being 3.65 WiMax but that alone does NOT obviate the need for 900 in our experience. Diversity is key. Chuck On Apr 19, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Jeremie Chism wrote: I am not using alvarion 3.65 but I am using wimax. I have a couple customers with lower modulation because of non line of site situations and have seen no impact on the entire system in general. Supposedly wimax is engineered to handle some of this better than my alvarion 900. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:15 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: That would only be true if the data services are somewhat purpose-specific and not Internet access. Doing what this vendor told you would seriously affect aggregate performance of the cell because of low rate modulation of the NLOS and/or distant customers. If you are doing sensor networks or POS connection you will be fine with all those BPSK/QPSK customers, indeed. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
[WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly
http://biggovernment.com/capitolconfidential/2010/04/20/googles-former-lobbyist-in-the-white-house-still-lobbying-for-google/ This is why so many of us say anymore Just don't let the federal government do anything that way there's no incentive to corrupt it. The more it controls, the more it spends, the more incentive for corruption, the more opportunity, the more it happens. Who else is advocating for whom, that would affect us? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly
Mark I told you years ago to go create your own anti-government rant email list. Still bothering this list, I see... - Original Message - From: MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:11 AM Subject: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly http://biggovernment.com/capitolconfidential/2010/04/20/googles-former-lobbyist-in-the-white-house-still-lobbying-for-google/ This is why so many of us say anymore Just don't let the federal government do anything that way there's no incentive to corrupt it. The more it controls, the more it spends, the more incentive for corruption, the more opportunity, the more it happens. Who else is advocating for whom, that would affect us? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB?
We enjoy our Apex links too although I wish the firmware would get updated again. I still prefer the Dragonwaves at least a little bit more than the Apexes because of a more reliable firmware. Anyway, where did you find your rain zone information? Seems it was listed in a Bridgewave manual a long time ago but I'm not finding a good map with the data. Thanks in advance. On 4/20/2010 09:32, Gino Villarini wrote: We just did a multi leg 11 Ghz system, 2 21 miles plus links. We are in rain zone N so lets see how they hold. Used Trango Apex with 4.75 dishes (Trango Branded) Rssi was as expected in the low 50's. Full 256 QAM (260 + Mbps) Did I mention both were over water? You cant go wrong with Trango o DW Horizon Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:24 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Looking for options... Trango Apex is on top of my list for now. If that needs to change let me know... thanks. Kinda sticking to 11Ghz because I need to keep the dishes at 4ft or under. In Florida. Any other better options let me know. Thanks for your time Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
What I was getting as is if you have 100 Camrys (or Malibu, Cobalt, Altima, Focus, Avenger, etc) and 25 of them with known bad construction (imagine one of the four workers was hungover that day) would you still go shopping for that car? Are you going to go as far as to check the VIN to make sure it isn't one of those 25? Or would you rather go to the next car on your list? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Adam Kennedy adamkenn...@omnicity.netwrote: You mean how Chevrolet built the various models of Malibu that sucked, but the one with the v8 was fine? Yep, I would buy the v8 and avoid the bad sub-models of Malibu. -- Adam Kennedy Network Engineer Omnicity, Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 11:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Well if some 7200.11 drives are bad I don't have the time to pick and choose between revs and serial numbers. Seagate screwed me I'm finding a different company that makes good a product. Would you buy a Toyota Camry if some of them were not built to spec? On 4/20/10, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: In all fairness It not appropriate to single out a HDD by a broad part number like 7200.11. That part number alone would likely have many revs which would slightly differ, and each firmware would could have significantly different compatibility issues. The Seagate Barracuda has always been a respected and high quality drive brand. But just like any product can have a bad batch or idiosyncracies in this Complex PC world. Specifically note that 7200.11 series support NCQ, a feature that improves both performance and drive life, rarely found in a desktop HDD. Yes, the 7200.11 is specifiied as a DESKTOP Class drive NOT a SERVER Class RAID drive, so it should used under such expections and applications. Although it is specified for Desktop RAID. However, for drives that fail in a raid, I rarely blaim HDDs themselves for the failure of raid. I'd argue that Desktop raid solutions are pretty much Crap, and the ones based on PRomise chipsets really cant be relied on for anything important. I cant count how many raid solutions we've been exposed to that failed killing more than 1 drive in the raid at once, resulting in data loss. (and Not necessarilly with Seagate drives, we also use WD heavilly). For this reason, we almost always now will chose basic mirroring over complex Raid, for all applications, expect extreme cases that really need a large amount of capacity, and for those applications we often mirror the raid sets. They just dont make quality Raid controllers like they used to do in the SCSI days. We have been very successful with Seagate Barracudas in our mirrored systems. We usually will use Linux of Microsoft native Software mirroring, not hardware based. So if you had a bad batch of Seagate, I dont doubt that, but we should not condemn the product line in general, and if anything, we shoudl praise Seagate for having a RMA department that is so easy to work with and willing to replace drives with no questions asked. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA. The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a raid, they will essentially fail at the same time if installed at the same time. I have went as far as RMAing one that showed no issues and they replaced that one as well with no questions. Robert West Just Micro Digital
Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB?
For MW link calcs we use the DW tool Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Steven McGehee Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 12:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? We enjoy our Apex links too although I wish the firmware would get updated again. I still prefer the Dragonwaves at least a little bit more than the Apexes because of a more reliable firmware. Anyway, where did you find your rain zone information? Seems it was listed in a Bridgewave manual a long time ago but I'm not finding a good map with the data. Thanks in advance. On 4/20/2010 09:32, Gino Villarini wrote: We just did a multi leg 11 Ghz system, 2 21 miles plus links. We are in rain zone N so lets see how they hold. Used Trango Apex with 4.75 dishes (Trango Branded) Rssi was as expected in the low 50's. Full 256 QAM (260 + Mbps) Did I mention both were over water? You cant go wrong with Trango o DW Horizon Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:24 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Looking for options... Trango Apex is on top of my list for now. If that needs to change let me know... thanks. Kinda sticking to 11Ghz because I need to keep the dishes at 4ft or under. In Florida. Any other better options let me know. Thanks for your time Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
From what I've seen personally, it's the 320GB to below the 500GB drives with firmware SD15, SD16, SD17 and SD18. From there, ALL the 500GB and up Barracuda 7200.11 drives are affected. I had one drive that I sent into Seagate as RMA, drive came back with different firmware, SD1A, drive failed in a month. Sent back and the replacement had yet another firmware revision. My post is just an FYI in case anyone is having weird BSOD's or lockups. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 11:19 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives In all fairness It not appropriate to single out a HDD by a broad part number like 7200.11. That part number alone would likely have many revs which would slightly differ, and each firmware would could have significantly different compatibility issues. The Seagate Barracuda has always been a respected and high quality drive brand. But just like any product can have a bad batch or idiosyncracies in this Complex PC world. Specifically note that 7200.11 series support NCQ, a feature that improves both performance and drive life, rarely found in a desktop HDD. Yes, the 7200.11 is specifiied as a DESKTOP Class drive NOT a SERVER Class RAID drive, so it should used under such expections and applications. Although it is specified for Desktop RAID. However, for drives that fail in a raid, I rarely blaim HDDs themselves for the failure of raid. I'd argue that Desktop raid solutions are pretty much Crap, and the ones based on PRomise chipsets really cant be relied on for anything important. I cant count how many raid solutions we've been exposed to that failed killing more than 1 drive in the raid at once, resulting in data loss. (and Not necessarilly with Seagate drives, we also use WD heavilly). For this reason, we almost always now will chose basic mirroring over complex Raid, for all applications, expect extreme cases that really need a large amount of capacity, and for those applications we often mirror the raid sets. They just dont make quality Raid controllers like they used to do in the SCSI days. We have been very successful with Seagate Barracudas in our mirrored systems. We usually will use Linux of Microsoft native Software mirroring, not hardware based. So if you had a bad batch of Seagate, I dont doubt that, but we should not condemn the product line in general, and if anything, we shoudl praise Seagate for having a RMA department that is so easy to work with and willing to replace drives with no questions asked. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA. The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a raid, they will essentially fail at the same time if installed at the same time. I have went as far as RMAing one that showed no issues and they replaced that one as well with no questions. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Logo5 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
I buy all of mine from a distributor we've dealt with for many years. Good quality and all retail versions in bulk. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeromie Reeves Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 11:36 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Something else that many people gloss over or do not know, is that most HDs from small retail vendors (Newegg, Walmart, TigerDirect, et al) have been picked over already by larger corporations, failed the QA, sent back to $.Manuf, Pass their QA, and sent into the retail chain. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 7:48 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: Same goes for the Seagate SAS drives, as well. I only had need to buy 4 of them. One was DOA. 2 died after less than 6 months of use and the other went a whole 2 years. Not good. Gave up on the SAS. I gave 3 of them away to a customer to upgrade his autocad server and the other is here at the bottom of my pile. Big $$$ waste. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of jp Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 11:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Long time ago, I got burned bad buying IBM deathstar drives. IBM is a good conservative choice right? Seagate has long been the troublefree conservative choice. I still prefer seagate and consider them a somewhat safe bet, despite the race to zero quality in that industry. However, some of their newer drives are less reliable based on other people's experience with them. I have tried samsung twice over the past couple years. Disaster. 1 DOA, 1 died in no time. I gave away the first replacement drive. Didn't bother to RMA the second. Recently bought some western digital 1tb 'green' drives. 1 was DOA. 1 is working in a server. I relegated the replacement drive to a techdesk desktop machine. I've got a cart full of old hard drives (must be at least 80 of them). About half IBMs, half seagate and others. If I take a 40-80gb drive out of a machine, it's not worth my while to securely wipe out the data and sell it, so they just pile up. Someday I'll play dominoes with them or make something one of a kind with a tig welder. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:07:38AM -0400, RickG wrote: Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA. The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a raid, they will essentially fail at the same time if installed at the same time. I have went as far as RMAing one that showed no issues and they replaced that one as well with no questions. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Logo5 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ | Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Maine http://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
I'm also a system builder and have used 100% Seagate for a long time. My point is that the 500 to 1000gb Barracuda 7200.11 drives have very good chance of failure but it may take a year or 2 to show up. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Steven Barnes Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 11:54 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives As a system builder. I disagree. I have sold seagate drives for 18 years. I built over 200 systems last year. I had 2 I had to RMA. I have returned 20% of Wd and 30% of hitachi. I will stay with Seagate. Get a good distributor like ASI . Steve On 4/20/10, Adam Kennedy adamkenn...@omnicity.net wrote: Where do you guys buy your drives from that you have had such good luck with WD and not Seagate? Since 1994 I have had countless failures with Maxtor and Western Digital disks. In fact just a few weeks ago I had TWO Western Digitals fail in the same server and they were Raid Edition disks! In my lifetime I have had maybe two Seagate drives fail. It also makes a huge difference, with any brand, what model of drive you buy. If you buy a cheap version of any of them then you are just asking for issues. Western digital I would stick with anything Black edition or better. Seagate I would stick with anything XT or better. Avoid the cheapy versions of anything, most of the time those cheapy disks are not tested before leaving the factory. -- Adam Kennedy Network Engineer Omnicity, Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives In 25+ years of experience, Seagates Maxtors have always been a let down. Western Digital is the best. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I've had really good luck with the Seagates for a long time now but china-mart finally caught up to them. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA.The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a raid, they will essentially fail at the same time if installed at the same time. I have went as far as RMAing one that showed no issues and they replaced that one as well with no questions. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Logo5 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
I agree, no one has the time to want to do that. But not much any one can do about it. What you aren't understanding is that that problem is not unique to Seagate. Every other HDD manufacturer has the same issue, they constantly make Rev changes to their HDD models. Its rare to buy a HDD 2 months apart (of any brand) and be capable of getting a HDD of the same rev. My point was not that you should take time to track revs of drives or even to try to source them. My point was that, if you buy a Seagate drive from another vendor or a month down the road its not likely to experience the same problems, and the odds could be jut as high you might experience a problem with another brand. Sometimes people dont realize the mass volume that is involved with HDDs. Also note, in today's world the MB Bios is just as much a factor as the HDD's firmware, and near impossible to find a drive likely to work with everything. Admittedly, from our experience over a 20 year period, we have had more firmware conflicts with Seagate than WD, but we also have had more failures with WD than Seagate. But over all, a certain percentage fail with all brands. It is what it is. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Well if some 7200.11 drives are bad I don't have the time to pick and choose between revs and serial numbers. Seagate screwed me I'm finding a different company that makes good a product. Would you buy a Toyota Camry if some of them were not built to spec? On 4/20/10, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: In all fairness It not appropriate to single out a HDD by a broad part number like 7200.11. That part number alone would likely have many revs which would slightly differ, and each firmware would could have significantly different compatibility issues. The Seagate Barracuda has always been a respected and high quality drive brand. But just like any product can have a bad batch or idiosyncracies in this Complex PC world. Specifically note that 7200.11 series support NCQ, a feature that improves both performance and drive life, rarely found in a desktop HDD. Yes, the 7200.11 is specifiied as a DESKTOP Class drive NOT a SERVER Class RAID drive, so it should used under such expections and applications. Although it is specified for Desktop RAID. However, for drives that fail in a raid, I rarely blaim HDDs themselves for the failure of raid. I'd argue that Desktop raid solutions are pretty much Crap, and the ones based on PRomise chipsets really cant be relied on for anything important. I cant count how many raid solutions we've been exposed to that failed killing more than 1 drive in the raid at once, resulting in data loss. (and Not necessarilly with Seagate drives, we also use WD heavilly). For this reason, we almost always now will chose basic mirroring over complex Raid, for all applications, expect extreme cases that really need a large amount of capacity, and for those applications we often mirror the raid sets. They just dont make quality Raid controllers like they used to do in the SCSI days. We have been very successful with Seagate Barracudas in our mirrored systems. We usually will use Linux of Microsoft native Software mirroring, not hardware based. So if you had a bad batch of Seagate, I dont doubt that, but we should not condemn the product line in general, and if anything, we shoudl praise Seagate for having a RMA department that is so easy to work with and willing to replace drives with no questions asked. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA. The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
Bob, I agree, there are some issues out there that we have seen firmware issues in the past. The hot swappable scsi drives had serious issues a few years back. I had all kinds of issues getting them to hold a partition but Seagate found the issue called me and helped setup a separate computer to get the 8 drives flashed with the new firmware. They have always been so helpful. What I was disagreeing with was with others opinion that all Seagate is junk. Bob I appreciate your letting us know this information. I will inform my Techs to be on the lookout for these drives. Steve Barnes -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 12:54 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives I'm also a system builder and have used 100% Seagate for a long time. My point is that the 500 to 1000gb Barracuda 7200.11 drives have very good chance of failure but it may take a year or 2 to show up. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Steven Barnes Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 11:54 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives As a system builder. I disagree. I have sold seagate drives for 18 years. I built over 200 systems last year. I had 2 I had to RMA. I have returned 20% of Wd and 30% of hitachi. I will stay with Seagate. Get a good distributor like ASI . Steve On 4/20/10, Adam Kennedy adamkenn...@omnicity.net wrote: Where do you guys buy your drives from that you have had such good luck with WD and not Seagate? Since 1994 I have had countless failures with Maxtor and Western Digital disks. In fact just a few weeks ago I had TWO Western Digitals fail in the same server and they were Raid Edition disks! In my lifetime I have had maybe two Seagate drives fail. It also makes a huge difference, with any brand, what model of drive you buy. If you buy a cheap version of any of them then you are just asking for issues. Western digital I would stick with anything Black edition or better. Seagate I would stick with anything XT or better. Avoid the cheapy versions of anything, most of the time those cheapy disks are not tested before leaving the factory. -- Adam Kennedy Network Engineer Omnicity, Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives In 25+ years of experience, Seagates Maxtors have always been a let down. Western Digital is the best. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I've had really good luck with the Seagates for a long time now but china-mart finally caught up to them. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA.The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a raid, they will essentially fail at the same time if installed at the same time. I have went as far as RMAing one that showed no issues and they replaced that one as well with no questions. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Logo5 -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- --
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
Every hard drive I have ever bought has been since the day I installed it. I have some drives nearly a decade old. Still have that $500 4GB disk somewhere... I've always bought on recommendations and I used Seagate up until the 7200.10 and 11 nightmares. A friend in Kansas spent three days flashing firmware. Then I moved to WD and I've got 6 disks running just fine for about a year and a half. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:06 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.netwrote: I agree, no one has the time to want to do that. But not much any one can do about it. What you aren't understanding is that that problem is not unique to Seagate. Every other HDD manufacturer has the same issue, they constantly make Rev changes to their HDD models. Its rare to buy a HDD 2 months apart (of any brand) and be capable of getting a HDD of the same rev. My point was not that you should take time to track revs of drives or even to try to source them. My point was that, if you buy a Seagate drive from another vendor or a month down the road its not likely to experience the same problems, and the odds could be jut as high you might experience a problem with another brand. Sometimes people dont realize the mass volume that is involved with HDDs. Also note, in today's world the MB Bios is just as much a factor as the HDD's firmware, and near impossible to find a drive likely to work with everything. Admittedly, from our experience over a 20 year period, we have had more firmware conflicts with Seagate than WD, but we also have had more failures with WD than Seagate. But over all, a certain percentage fail with all brands. It is what it is. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Well if some 7200.11 drives are bad I don't have the time to pick and choose between revs and serial numbers. Seagate screwed me I'm finding a different company that makes good a product. Would you buy a Toyota Camry if some of them were not built to spec? On 4/20/10, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: In all fairness It not appropriate to single out a HDD by a broad part number like 7200.11. That part number alone would likely have many revs which would slightly differ, and each firmware would could have significantly different compatibility issues. The Seagate Barracuda has always been a respected and high quality drive brand. But just like any product can have a bad batch or idiosyncracies in this Complex PC world. Specifically note that 7200.11 series support NCQ, a feature that improves both performance and drive life, rarely found in a desktop HDD. Yes, the 7200.11 is specifiied as a DESKTOP Class drive NOT a SERVER Class RAID drive, so it should used under such expections and applications. Although it is specified for Desktop RAID. However, for drives that fail in a raid, I rarely blaim HDDs themselves for the failure of raid. I'd argue that Desktop raid solutions are pretty much Crap, and the ones based on PRomise chipsets really cant be relied on for anything important. I cant count how many raid solutions we've been exposed to that failed killing more than 1 drive in the raid at once, resulting in data loss. (and Not necessarilly with Seagate drives, we also use WD heavilly). For this reason, we almost always now will chose basic mirroring over complex Raid, for all applications, expect extreme cases that really need a large amount of capacity, and for those applications we often mirror the raid sets. They just dont make quality Raid controllers like they used to do in the SCSI days. We have been very successful with Seagate Barracudas in our mirrored systems. We usually will use Linux of Microsoft native Software mirroring, not hardware based. So if you had a bad batch of Seagate, I dont doubt that, but we should not condemn the product line in general, and if anything, we shoudl praise Seagate for having a RMA department that is so easy to work with and willing to replace drives with no questions asked. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using
Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB?
regret boughting those from RFS instead of Andrew, but Ceragon offered both and the decision was based on price... :-( Why do you dislike the RFS antenna compared to the Andrews? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Only good experience with them. The radios just work. Some were 11 GHz, some were 18 GHz, only one or two 7.5 GHz. Throughput matched the nominal 200/300/400 Mbps for small packets; for large packets, 170 out of 200 Mbps and 360 out of 400 Mbps; those values are consistent with IP-based (not SDH/PDH) radios (they are not 140 or 155 Mbps multiples), but is the total opposite of what we would usually expect, as it is easier for the radio to deal with small packets, not harder. Considering the Internet traffic has 50% of 64 bytes packets, that would make the I-mix throughput pretty close to nominal; the monitoring software has RMON capabilities so you can see your packet size distribution in real time. Adaptive modulation worked hitless for reducing speed during rain periods, but not every time it would go up again. It was a 50-50 chance that ACM would bring the modulation up again, so it's an index you want to be looking at your NOC. We did some firmware upgrades without issues; license upgrades were trickier and sometimes Ceragon had to generate license files again after we've sent the output from the failed upgrades. Except for 7.5 GHz units all the models had integrated antennas; we regret boughting those from RFS instead of Andrew, but Ceragon offered both and the decision was based on price... :-( Rubens On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Paolo Di Francesco paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote: Just curious, what about Ceragon? Any good/bad experience with them? Regards We just did a multi leg 11 Ghz system, 2 21 miles plus links. We are in rain zone N so lets see how they hold. Used Trango Apex with 4.75 dishes (Trango Branded) Rssi was as expected in the low 50's. Full 256 QAM (260 + Mbps) Did I mention both were over water? You cant go wrong with Trango o DW Horizon Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:24 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Looking for options... Trango Apex is on top of my list for now. If that needs to change let me know... thanks. Kinda sticking to 11Ghz because I need to keep the dishes at 4ft or under. In Florida. Any other better options let me know. Thanks for your time Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform s.r.l. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
I forwarded this along to a colleague of mine and he said that he hasn't had this issue with any recent firmware. Then he went as far as to tell me that you can upgrade the firmware yourself if you connect via serial (?!) to make some changes. Details are here: http://www.msfn.org/board/solution-seagate-720011-hdds-t128807-page-2720.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB?
Prior to be replaced with Ceragon, most of the radios were Nera (bad choice) with Andrew antennas (good choice). The Andrew antennas had better alignment controls and, most important, better fixation and waterproofing. Andrew antennas also had more diameter options, like having three-feet, not just two or four-feet. Rubens On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: regret boughting those from RFS instead of Andrew, but Ceragon offered both and the decision was based on price... :-( Why do you dislike the RFS antenna compared to the Andrews? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Only good experience with them. The radios just work. Some were 11 GHz, some were 18 GHz, only one or two 7.5 GHz. Throughput matched the nominal 200/300/400 Mbps for small packets; for large packets, 170 out of 200 Mbps and 360 out of 400 Mbps; those values are consistent with IP-based (not SDH/PDH) radios (they are not 140 or 155 Mbps multiples), but is the total opposite of what we would usually expect, as it is easier for the radio to deal with small packets, not harder. Considering the Internet traffic has 50% of 64 bytes packets, that would make the I-mix throughput pretty close to nominal; the monitoring software has RMON capabilities so you can see your packet size distribution in real time. Adaptive modulation worked hitless for reducing speed during rain periods, but not every time it would go up again. It was a 50-50 chance that ACM would bring the modulation up again, so it's an index you want to be looking at your NOC. We did some firmware upgrades without issues; license upgrades were trickier and sometimes Ceragon had to generate license files again after we've sent the output from the failed upgrades. Except for 7.5 GHz units all the models had integrated antennas; we regret boughting those from RFS instead of Andrew, but Ceragon offered both and the decision was based on price... :-( Rubens On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Paolo Di Francesco paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote: Just curious, what about Ceragon? Any good/bad experience with them? Regards We just did a multi leg 11 Ghz system, 2 21 miles plus links. We are in rain zone N so lets see how they hold. Used Trango Apex with 4.75 dishes (Trango Branded) Rssi was as expected in the low 50's. Full 256 QAM (260 + Mbps) Did I mention both were over water? You cant go wrong with Trango o DW Horizon Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:24 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Looking for options... Trango Apex is on top of my list for now. If that needs to change let me know... thanks. Kinda sticking to 11Ghz because I need to keep the dishes at 4ft or under. In Florida. Any other better options let me know. Thanks for your time Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform s.r.l. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
I understand. I'm still using Seagate in hope that they have their manufacturing and assembly process figured out now. This one issue has been going on for almost 2 years but it's starting to ramp up faster now. Again, only an FYI in case anyone is using them for critical info. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Steven Barnes Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Bob, I agree, there are some issues out there that we have seen firmware issues in the past. The hot swappable scsi drives had serious issues a few years back. I had all kinds of issues getting them to hold a partition but Seagate found the issue called me and helped setup a separate computer to get the 8 drives flashed with the new firmware. They have always been so helpful. What I was disagreeing with was with others opinion that all Seagate is junk. Bob I appreciate your letting us know this information. I will inform my Techs to be on the lookout for these drives. Steve Barnes -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 12:54 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives I'm also a system builder and have used 100% Seagate for a long time. My point is that the 500 to 1000gb Barracuda 7200.11 drives have very good chance of failure but it may take a year or 2 to show up. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Steven Barnes Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 11:54 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives As a system builder. I disagree. I have sold seagate drives for 18 years. I built over 200 systems last year. I had 2 I had to RMA. I have returned 20% of Wd and 30% of hitachi. I will stay with Seagate. Get a good distributor like ASI . Steve On 4/20/10, Adam Kennedy adamkenn...@omnicity.net wrote: Where do you guys buy your drives from that you have had such good luck with WD and not Seagate? Since 1994 I have had countless failures with Maxtor and Western Digital disks. In fact just a few weeks ago I had TWO Western Digitals fail in the same server and they were Raid Edition disks! In my lifetime I have had maybe two Seagate drives fail. It also makes a huge difference, with any brand, what model of drive you buy. If you buy a cheap version of any of them then you are just asking for issues. Western digital I would stick with anything Black edition or better. Seagate I would stick with anything XT or better. Avoid the cheapy versions of anything, most of the time those cheapy disks are not tested before leaving the factory. -- Adam Kennedy Network Engineer Omnicity, Inc. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives In 25+ years of experience, Seagates Maxtors have always been a let down. Western Digital is the best. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I've had really good luck with the Seagates for a long time now but china-mart finally caught up to them. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA.The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a raid, they will essentially fail at the same time if installed at the same time. I have went as far as RMAing one that showed no issues and they replaced that one as well with no questions. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Logo5 -- -- WISPA Wants
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
Yeah, I had to reset one via serial just to get the drive running again and retrieve the info. Works but is pretty involved. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Charles Hooper Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives I forwarded this along to a colleague of mine and he said that he hasn't had this issue with any recent firmware. Then he went as far as to tell me that you can upgrade the firmware yourself if you connect via serial (?!) to make some changes. Details are here: http://www.msfn.org/board/solution-seagate-720011-hdds-t128807-page-2720.htm l WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
Yes! all I use... Seagate was good 20 years ago. RickG wrote: In 25+ years of experience, Seagates Maxtors have always been a let down. Western Digital is the best. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I've had really good luck with the Seagates for a long time now but china-mart finally caught up to them. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA. The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a raid, they will essentially fail at the same time if installed at the same time. I have went as far as RMAing one that showed no issues and they replaced that one as well with no questions. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Logo5 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly
It does apply here. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Mark Nash - Lists markl...@uwol.net wrote: Mark I told you years ago to go create your own anti-government rant email list. Still bothering this list, I see... - Original Message - From: MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:11 AM Subject: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly http://biggovernment.com/capitolconfidential/2010/04/20/googles-former-lobbyist-in-the-white-house-still-lobbying-for-google/ This is why so many of us say anymore Just don't let the federal government do anything that way there's no incentive to corrupt it. The more it controls, the more it spends, the more incentive for corruption, the more opportunity, the more it happens. Who else is advocating for whom, that would affect us? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly
Give the facts, give the opinion, leave the radical commentary for the other lists for people who share your views and want to hear it. - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly It does apply here. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Mark Nash - Lists markl...@uwol.net wrote: Mark I told you years ago to go create your own anti-government rant email list. Still bothering this list, I see... - Original Message - From: MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:11 AM Subject: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly http://biggovernment.com/capitolconfidential/2010/04/20/googles-former-lobbyist-in-the-white-house-still-lobbying-for-google/ This is why so many of us say anymore Just don't let the federal government do anything that way there's no incentive to corrupt it. The more it controls, the more it spends, the more incentive for corruption, the more opportunity, the more it happens. Who else is advocating for whom, that would affect us? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives
I'll admit the Baracudas are legendary. I thought we were talking IDE SATA? On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: In all fairness It not appropriate to single out a HDD by a broad part number like 7200.11. That part number alone would likely have many revs which would slightly differ, and each firmware would could have significantly different compatibility issues. The Seagate Barracuda has always been a respected and high quality drive brand. But just like any product can have a bad batch or idiosyncracies in this Complex PC world. Specifically note that 7200.11 series support NCQ, a feature that improves both performance and drive life, rarely found in a desktop HDD. Yes, the 7200.11 is specifiied as a DESKTOP Class drive NOT a SERVER Class RAID drive, so it should used under such expections and applications. Although it is specified for Desktop RAID. However, for drives that fail in a raid, I rarely blaim HDDs themselves for the failure of raid. I'd argue that Desktop raid solutions are pretty much Crap, and the ones based on PRomise chipsets really cant be relied on for anything important. I cant count how many raid solutions we've been exposed to that failed killing more than 1 drive in the raid at once, resulting in data loss. (and Not necessarilly with Seagate drives, we also use WD heavilly). For this reason, we almost always now will chose basic mirroring over complex Raid, for all applications, expect extreme cases that really need a large amount of capacity, and for those applications we often mirror the raid sets. They just dont make quality Raid controllers like they used to do in the SCSI days. We have been very successful with Seagate Barracudas in our mirrored systems. We usually will use Linux of Microsoft native Software mirroring, not hardware based. So if you had a bad batch of Seagate, I dont doubt that, but we should not condemn the product line in general, and if anything, we shoudl praise Seagate for having a RMA department that is so easy to work with and willing to replace drives with no questions asked. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Seagate 7200.11 Hard Drives Friends dont let friends use Seagates :) On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: FYI. If anyone is using Seagate 7200.11 SATA hard drives (500gb to the terabyte) and have been experiencing random blue screens or lockups, they have been having firmware problems for awhile on these drives and you should backup your data and send them back to Seagate via RMA. The 7200.11 can be usually found on the top left hand corner. I've found that even in a raid, they can fail pretty much at the same time and thus thwarting the protection of the raid. I've talked to one other WISPA member who had this problem (As well as my own experience with them - 5 sent back already on my own) and thought others may want to look to see what's in their servers. They were flashed with the wrong firmware and experience a countdown of sorts then eventually fail. Again, if in a raid, they will essentially fail at the same time if installed at the same time. I have went as far as RMAing one that showed no issues and they replaced that one as well with no questions. Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Logo5 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly
I only saw facts opinion, nothing radical. So, I guess you need to define radical. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Mark Nash - Lists markl...@uwol.net wrote: Give the facts, give the opinion, leave the radical commentary for the other lists for people who share your views and want to hear it. - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly It does apply here. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Mark Nash - Lists markl...@uwol.net wrote: Mark I told you years ago to go create your own anti-government rant email list. Still bothering this list, I see... - Original Message - From: MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:11 AM Subject: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly http://biggovernment.com/capitolconfidential/2010/04/20/googles-former-lobbyist-in-the-white-house-still-lobbying-for-google/ This is why so many of us say anymore Just don't let the federal government do anything that way there's no incentive to corrupt it. The more it controls, the more it spends, the more incentive for corruption, the more opportunity, the more it happens. Who else is advocating for whom, that would affect us? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly
Please use common sense. Stop feeding the MDK troll. Take it off to a political list. RickG wrote: I only saw facts opinion, nothing radical. So, I guess you need to define "radical". On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Mark Nash - Lists markl...@uwol.net wrote: Give the facts, give the opinion, leave the radical commentary for the other lists for people who share your views and want to hear it. - Original Message - From: "RickG" rgunder...@gmail.com To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly It does apply here. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Mark Nash - Lists markl...@uwol.net wrote: Mark I told you years ago to go create your own anti-government rant email list. Still bothering this list, I see... - Original Message - From: "MDK" rea...@muddyfrogwater.us To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:11 AM Subject: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly http://biggovernment.com/capitolconfidential/2010/04/20/googles-former-lobbyist-in-the-white-house-still-lobbying-for-google/ This is why so many of us say anymore "Just don't let the federal government do anything" that way there's no incentive to corrupt it. The more it controls, the more it spends, the more incentive for corruption, the more opportunity, the more it happens. Who else is advocating for whom, that would affect us? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly
Looking at the words, you're correct. Perhaps I'm going more off of prior feelings of prior posts. Sorry for that. If you've been a WISPA member for years like I have, you know Mark Koskenmaki's anti-government views. You've heard the over over over over over over. So yes a little sick of them, I am... Hence the quick response from me. Sorry for doing that this time, Mark. - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly I only saw facts opinion, nothing radical. So, I guess you need to define radical. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Mark Nash - Lists markl...@uwol.net wrote: Give the facts, give the opinion, leave the radical commentary for the other lists for people who share your views and want to hear it. - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly It does apply here. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Mark Nash - Lists markl...@uwol.net wrote: Mark I told you years ago to go create your own anti-government rant email list. Still bothering this list, I see... - Original Message - From: MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:11 AM Subject: [WISPA] Free enterprise,sure, when pigs fly http://biggovernment.com/capitolconfidential/2010/04/20/googles-former-lobbyist-in-the-white-house-still-lobbying-for-google/ This is why so many of us say anymore Just don't let the federal government do anything that way there's no incentive to corrupt it. The more it controls, the more it spends, the more incentive for corruption, the more opportunity, the more it happens. Who else is advocating for whom, that would affect us? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz?
On Apr 20, 2010, at 12:00 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: My point here is that Diversity can make a huge difference, diversity is the differenciator, but that the benefit of diversity can vary dependant on the Freq used and environment tackling, based on past experience. Without looking up the math on this, I would speculate that the reason is wavelength. At 3.65 we're about 4' apart. To get the same advantage at 900 MHz I'd willing to bet you might need to be quite a bit further apart-which isn't practical in most cases. I'm not willing to say it scales with wavelength (not without looking at the actual equations that is) but wavelength is going to be a factor in how effective diversity is at any given distance between two antennas. On the other hand, moving the antennas further apart at lower frequencies should be able to re-create the advantage. Chuck Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz? We did not find that WiMax in general was better than 900. The key isn't WiMax, per se, but diversity antennas. Performance is *helped* by being 3.65 WiMax but that alone does NOT obviate the need for 900 in our experience. Diversity is key. Chuck On Apr 19, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Jeremie Chism wrote: I am not using alvarion 3.65 but I am using wimax. I have a couple customers with lower modulation because of non line of site situations and have seen no impact on the entire system in general. Supposedly wimax is engineered to handle some of this better than my alvarion 900. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:15 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: That would only be true if the data services are somewhat purpose-specific and not Internet access. Doing what this vendor told you would seriously affect aggregate performance of the cell because of low rate modulation of the NLOS and/or distant customers. If you are doing sensor networks or POS connection you will be fine with all those BPSK/QPSK customers, indeed. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz?
On the motorola webinar today they talked about the benefits of diversity and had comparisons between 900 3.65 part d and motorola's 320. Of course I understand the 90 percent of what they probably said was a stretch of the truth. They had a guy in Florida that tested all three and the 320 made links that the others couldn't. They cited the benefit of Mimo from multipath and reflection and said the benefits in certain frequencies were more prominent than lower frequencies. Just putting what was said out there. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 20, 2010, at 5:14 PM, Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com wrote: On Apr 20, 2010, at 12:00 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: My point here is that Diversity can make a huge difference, diversity is the differenciator, but that the benefit of diversity can vary dependant on the Freq used and environment tackling, based on past experience. Without looking up the math on this, I would speculate that the reason is wavelength. At 3.65 we're about 4' apart. To get the same advantage at 900 MHz I'd willing to bet you might need to be quite a bit further apart-which isn't practical in most cases. I'm not willing to say it scales with wavelength (not without looking at the actual equations that is) but wavelength is going to be a factor in how effective diversity is at any given distance between two antennas. On the other hand, moving the antennas further apart at lower frequencies should be able to re-create the advantage. Chuck Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz? We did not find that WiMax in general was better than 900. The key isn't WiMax, per se, but diversity antennas. Performance is *helped* by being 3.65 WiMax but that alone does NOT obviate the need for 900 in our experience. Diversity is key. Chuck On Apr 19, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Jeremie Chism wrote: I am not using alvarion 3.65 but I am using wimax. I have a couple customers with lower modulation because of non line of site situations and have seen no impact on the entire system in general. Supposedly wimax is engineered to handle some of this better than my alvarion 900. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:15 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: That would only be true if the data services are somewhat purpose-specific and not Internet access. Doing what this vendor told you would seriously affect aggregate performance of the cell because of low rate modulation of the NLOS and/or distant customers. If you are doing sensor networks or POS connection you will be fine with all those BPSK/QPSK customers, indeed. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road
Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB?
What issues did you have with Nera? We were looking to go with them due to the issues we have had with Ceragon. We looked at Dragonwave as well but several things turned us off of them. I don't know of any other big players that can do 200+ mbit with options of 11Ghz, 6Ghz and external antennas (We also use Andrews). On 4/20/10 1:32 PM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: Prior to be replaced with Ceragon, most of the radios were Nera (bad choice) with Andrew antennas (good choice). The Andrew antennas had better alignment controls and, most important, better fixation and waterproofing. Andrew antennas also had more diameter options, like having three-feet, not just two or four-feet. Rubens On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: regret boughting those from RFS instead of Andrew, but Ceragon offered both and the decision was based on price... :-( Why do you dislike the RFS antenna compared to the Andrews? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Only good experience with them. The radios just work. Some were 11 GHz, some were 18 GHz, only one or two 7.5 GHz. Throughput matched the nominal 200/300/400 Mbps for small packets; for large packets, 170 out of 200 Mbps and 360 out of 400 Mbps; those values are consistent with IP-based (not SDH/PDH) radios (they are not 140 or 155 Mbps multiples), but is the total opposite of what we would usually expect, as it is easier for the radio to deal with small packets, not harder. Considering the Internet traffic has 50% of 64 bytes packets, that would make the I-mix throughput pretty close to nominal; the monitoring software has RMON capabilities so you can see your packet size distribution in real time. Adaptive modulation worked hitless for reducing speed during rain periods, but not every time it would go up again. It was a 50-50 chance that ACM would bring the modulation up again, so it's an index you want to be looking at your NOC. We did some firmware upgrades without issues; license upgrades were trickier and sometimes Ceragon had to generate license files again after we've sent the output from the failed upgrades. Except for 7.5 GHz units all the models had integrated antennas; we regret boughting those from RFS instead of Andrew, but Ceragon offered both and the decision was based on price... :-( Rubens On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Paolo Di Francesco paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote: Just curious, what about Ceragon? Any good/bad experience with them? Regards We just did a multi leg 11 Ghz system, 2 21 miles plus links. We are in rain zone N so lets see how they hold. Used Trango Apex with 4.75 dishes (Trango Branded) Rssi was as expected in the low 50's. Full 256 QAM (260 + Mbps) Did I mention both were over water? You cant go wrong with Trango o DW Horizon Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:24 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Looking for options... Trango Apex is on top of my list for now. If that needs to change let me know... thanks. Kinda sticking to 11Ghz because I need to keep the dishes at 4ft or under. In Florida. Any other better options let me know. Thanks for your time Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform s.r.l. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com WISPA Wants You! Join today!
Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB?
What turned you off to Dragonwave? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Adam Kennedy adamkenn...@omnicity.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:40:59 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? What issues did you have with Nera? We were looking to go with them due to the issues we have had with Ceragon. We looked at Dragonwave as well but several things turned us off of them. I don't know of any other big players that can do 200+ mbit with options of 11Ghz, 6Ghz and external antennas (We also use Andrews). On 4/20/10 1:32 PM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: Prior to be replaced with Ceragon, most of the radios were Nera (bad choice) with Andrew antennas (good choice). The Andrew antennas had better alignment controls and, most important, better fixation and waterproofing. Andrew antennas also had more diameter options, like having three-feet, not just two or four-feet. Rubens On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: regret boughting those from RFS instead of Andrew, but Ceragon offered both and the decision was based on price... :-( Why do you dislike the RFS antenna compared to the Andrews? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Only good experience with them. The radios just work. Some were 11 GHz, some were 18 GHz, only one or two 7.5 GHz. Throughput matched the nominal 200/300/400 Mbps for small packets; for large packets, 170 out of 200 Mbps and 360 out of 400 Mbps; those values are consistent with IP-based (not SDH/PDH) radios (they are not 140 or 155 Mbps multiples), but is the total opposite of what we would usually expect, as it is easier for the radio to deal with small packets, not harder. Considering the Internet traffic has 50% of 64 bytes packets, that would make the I-mix throughput pretty close to nominal; the monitoring software has RMON capabilities so you can see your packet size distribution in real time. Adaptive modulation worked hitless for reducing speed during rain periods, but not every time it would go up again. It was a 50-50 chance that ACM would bring the modulation up again, so it's an index you want to be looking at your NOC. We did some firmware upgrades without issues; license upgrades were trickier and sometimes Ceragon had to generate license files again after we've sent the output from the failed upgrades. Except for 7.5 GHz units all the models had integrated antennas; we regret boughting those from RFS instead of Andrew, but Ceragon offered both and the decision was based on price... :-( Rubens On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Paolo Di Francesco paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote: Just curious, what about Ceragon? Any good/bad experience with them? Regards We just did a multi leg 11 Ghz system, 2 21 miles plus links. We are in rain zone N so lets see how they hold. Used Trango Apex with 4.75 dishes (Trango Branded) Rssi was as expected in the low 50's. Full 256 QAM (260 + Mbps) Did I mention both were over water? You cant go wrong with Trango o DW Horizon Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:24 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Looking for options... Trango Apex is on top of my list for now. If that needs to change let me know... thanks. Kinda sticking to 11Ghz because I need to keep the dishes at 4ft or under. In Florida. Any other better options let me know. Thanks for your time Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform s.r.l. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita'
Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB?
The diagnostics were all windows based it seemed. The issue we have is that not all machines are windows based and it would be nice to have our monitoring system be able to run some of the diagnostics as well (which is Linux based). Not only that but it felt like the deep diags were all closed source and we would have to send the tech file to Dragonwave support in order to find out what is going on. There just didn't seem to be as many metrics available to us in Dragonwave as there were in other equipment for SNMP etc. I prefer to be proactive in resolving issues :) But this also was late 2007, I'm sure quite a bit has changed since then. On 4/20/10 10:21 PM, lakel...@gbcx.net lakel...@gbcx.net wrote: What turned you off to Dragonwave? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Adam Kennedy adamkenn...@omnicity.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:40:59 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? What issues did you have with Nera? We were looking to go with them due to the issues we have had with Ceragon. We looked at Dragonwave as well but several things turned us off of them. I don't know of any other big players that can do 200+ mbit with options of 11Ghz, 6Ghz and external antennas (We also use Andrews). On 4/20/10 1:32 PM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: Prior to be replaced with Ceragon, most of the radios were Nera (bad choice) with Andrew antennas (good choice). The Andrew antennas had better alignment controls and, most important, better fixation and waterproofing. Andrew antennas also had more diameter options, like having three-feet, not just two or four-feet. Rubens On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: regret boughting those from RFS instead of Andrew, but Ceragon offered both and the decision was based on price... :-( Why do you dislike the RFS antenna compared to the Andrews? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Only good experience with them. The radios just work. Some were 11 GHz, some were 18 GHz, only one or two 7.5 GHz. Throughput matched the nominal 200/300/400 Mbps for small packets; for large packets, 170 out of 200 Mbps and 360 out of 400 Mbps; those values are consistent with IP-based (not SDH/PDH) radios (they are not 140 or 155 Mbps multiples), but is the total opposite of what we would usually expect, as it is easier for the radio to deal with small packets, not harder. Considering the Internet traffic has 50% of 64 bytes packets, that would make the I-mix throughput pretty close to nominal; the monitoring software has RMON capabilities so you can see your packet size distribution in real time. Adaptive modulation worked hitless for reducing speed during rain periods, but not every time it would go up again. It was a 50-50 chance that ACM would bring the modulation up again, so it's an index you want to be looking at your NOC. We did some firmware upgrades without issues; license upgrades were trickier and sometimes Ceragon had to generate license files again after we've sent the output from the failed upgrades. Except for 7.5 GHz units all the models had integrated antennas; we regret boughting those from RFS instead of Andrew, but Ceragon offered both and the decision was based on price... :-( Rubens On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Paolo Di Francesco paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote: Just curious, what about Ceragon? Any good/bad experience with them? Regards We just did a multi leg 11 Ghz system, 2 21 miles plus links. We are in rain zone N so lets see how they hold. Used Trango Apex with 4.75 dishes (Trango Branded) Rssi was as expected in the low 50's. Full 256 QAM (260 + Mbps) Did I mention both were over water? You cant go wrong with Trango o DW Horizon Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:24 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Looking for options... Trango Apex is on top of my list for now. If that needs to change let me know... thanks. Kinda sticking to 11Ghz because I need to keep the dishes at 4ft or under. In Florida. Any other better options let me know. Thanks for your time Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB?
Oh, and PoE seemed too Unlicensed-ish for us. I hate dealing with PoE with any equipment backhauls, no matter the brand. We need the ability to mount a licensed link without worrying how far the Cat5 run is. We have also had some serious issues with Cat5 lightning arrestors and we would really rather not deal with those headaches on our licensed backhauls. They need to be five 9's =) On 4/20/10 10:21 PM, lakel...@gbcx.net lakel...@gbcx.net wrote: What turned you off to Dragonwave? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Adam Kennedy adamkenn...@omnicity.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:40:59 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? What issues did you have with Nera? We were looking to go with them due to the issues we have had with Ceragon. We looked at Dragonwave as well but several things turned us off of them. I don't know of any other big players that can do 200+ mbit with options of 11Ghz, 6Ghz and external antennas (We also use Andrews). On 4/20/10 1:32 PM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: Prior to be replaced with Ceragon, most of the radios were Nera (bad choice) with Andrew antennas (good choice). The Andrew antennas had better alignment controls and, most important, better fixation and waterproofing. Andrew antennas also had more diameter options, like having three-feet, not just two or four-feet. Rubens On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: regret boughting those from RFS instead of Andrew, but Ceragon offered both and the decision was based on price... :-( Why do you dislike the RFS antenna compared to the Andrews? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Only good experience with them. The radios just work. Some were 11 GHz, some were 18 GHz, only one or two 7.5 GHz. Throughput matched the nominal 200/300/400 Mbps for small packets; for large packets, 170 out of 200 Mbps and 360 out of 400 Mbps; those values are consistent with IP-based (not SDH/PDH) radios (they are not 140 or 155 Mbps multiples), but is the total opposite of what we would usually expect, as it is easier for the radio to deal with small packets, not harder. Considering the Internet traffic has 50% of 64 bytes packets, that would make the I-mix throughput pretty close to nominal; the monitoring software has RMON capabilities so you can see your packet size distribution in real time. Adaptive modulation worked hitless for reducing speed during rain periods, but not every time it would go up again. It was a 50-50 chance that ACM would bring the modulation up again, so it's an index you want to be looking at your NOC. We did some firmware upgrades without issues; license upgrades were trickier and sometimes Ceragon had to generate license files again after we've sent the output from the failed upgrades. Except for 7.5 GHz units all the models had integrated antennas; we regret boughting those from RFS instead of Andrew, but Ceragon offered both and the decision was based on price... :-( Rubens On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Paolo Di Francesco paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote: Just curious, what about Ceragon? Any good/bad experience with them? Regards We just did a multi leg 11 Ghz system, 2 21 miles plus links. We are in rain zone N so lets see how they hold. Used Trango Apex with 4.75 dishes (Trango Branded) Rssi was as expected in the low 50's. Full 256 QAM (260 + Mbps) Did I mention both were over water? You cant go wrong with Trango o DW Horizon Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:24 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Looking for options... Trango Apex is on top of my list for now. If that needs to change let me know... thanks. Kinda sticking to 11Ghz because I need to keep the dishes at 4ft or under. In Florida. Any other better options let me know. Thanks for your time Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB?
Well with the exception of the CAT5 limitations I believe your concerns with the Horizon Compact are unfounded. I have nearly 40 links in Manhattan on some of the largest buildings in America that get direct hits all the time and have had NO issues with Transtector arrestors. Good luck with Nera -B- Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Adam Kennedy adamkenn...@omnicity.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 22:27:53 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Oh, and PoE seemed too Unlicensed-ish for us. I hate dealing with PoE with any equipment backhauls, no matter the brand. We need the ability to mount a licensed link without worrying how far the Cat5 run is. We have also had some serious issues with Cat5 lightning arrestors and we would really rather not deal with those headaches on our licensed backhauls. They need to be five 9's =) On 4/20/10 10:21 PM, lakel...@gbcx.net lakel...@gbcx.net wrote: What turned you off to Dragonwave? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Adam Kennedy adamkenn...@omnicity.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:40:59 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? What issues did you have with Nera? We were looking to go with them due to the issues we have had with Ceragon. We looked at Dragonwave as well but several things turned us off of them. I don't know of any other big players that can do 200+ mbit with options of 11Ghz, 6Ghz and external antennas (We also use Andrews). On 4/20/10 1:32 PM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: Prior to be replaced with Ceragon, most of the radios were Nera (bad choice) with Andrew antennas (good choice). The Andrew antennas had better alignment controls and, most important, better fixation and waterproofing. Andrew antennas also had more diameter options, like having three-feet, not just two or four-feet. Rubens On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: regret boughting those from RFS instead of Andrew, but Ceragon offered both and the decision was based on price... :-( Why do you dislike the RFS antenna compared to the Andrews? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Only good experience with them. The radios just work. Some were 11 GHz, some were 18 GHz, only one or two 7.5 GHz. Throughput matched the nominal 200/300/400 Mbps for small packets; for large packets, 170 out of 200 Mbps and 360 out of 400 Mbps; those values are consistent with IP-based (not SDH/PDH) radios (they are not 140 or 155 Mbps multiples), but is the total opposite of what we would usually expect, as it is easier for the radio to deal with small packets, not harder. Considering the Internet traffic has 50% of 64 bytes packets, that would make the I-mix throughput pretty close to nominal; the monitoring software has RMON capabilities so you can see your packet size distribution in real time. Adaptive modulation worked hitless for reducing speed during rain periods, but not every time it would go up again. It was a 50-50 chance that ACM would bring the modulation up again, so it's an index you want to be looking at your NOC. We did some firmware upgrades without issues; license upgrades were trickier and sometimes Ceragon had to generate license files again after we've sent the output from the failed upgrades. Except for 7.5 GHz units all the models had integrated antennas; we regret boughting those from RFS instead of Andrew, but Ceragon offered both and the decision was based on price... :-( Rubens On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Paolo Di Francesco paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote: Just curious, what about Ceragon? Any good/bad experience with them? Regards We just did a multi leg 11 Ghz system, 2 21 miles plus links. We are in rain zone N so lets see how they hold. Used Trango Apex with 4.75 dishes (Trango Branded) Rssi was as expected in the low 50's. Full 256 QAM (260 + Mbps) Did I mention both were over water? You cant go wrong with Trango o DW Horizon Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:24 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Looking for options... Trango Apex is on top of my list for now. If that needs to change let me know... thanks. Kinda sticking to 11Ghz because I need to keep the dishes at 4ft or under. In Florida. Any other better
Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB?
So you are making your decision on what you saw with Dragonwave equipment in 2007??? That is not making a lot of sense. You can open the diagnostic files in notepad and look at everything. No secrets. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Adam Kennedy adamkenn...@omnicity.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 22:25:17 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? The diagnostics were all windows based it seemed. The issue we have is that not all machines are windows based and it would be nice to have our monitoring system be able to run some of the diagnostics as well (which is Linux based). Not only that but it felt like the deep diags were all closed source and we would have to send the tech file to Dragonwave support in order to find out what is going on. There just didn't seem to be as many metrics available to us in Dragonwave as there were in other equipment for SNMP etc. I prefer to be proactive in resolving issues :) But this also was late 2007, I'm sure quite a bit has changed since then. On 4/20/10 10:21 PM, lakel...@gbcx.net lakel...@gbcx.net wrote: What turned you off to Dragonwave? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Adam Kennedy adamkenn...@omnicity.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:40:59 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? What issues did you have with Nera? We were looking to go with them due to the issues we have had with Ceragon. We looked at Dragonwave as well but several things turned us off of them. I don't know of any other big players that can do 200+ mbit with options of 11Ghz, 6Ghz and external antennas (We also use Andrews). On 4/20/10 1:32 PM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: Prior to be replaced with Ceragon, most of the radios were Nera (bad choice) with Andrew antennas (good choice). The Andrew antennas had better alignment controls and, most important, better fixation and waterproofing. Andrew antennas also had more diameter options, like having three-feet, not just two or four-feet. Rubens On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: regret boughting those from RFS instead of Andrew, but Ceragon offered both and the decision was based on price... :-( Why do you dislike the RFS antenna compared to the Andrews? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Only good experience with them. The radios just work. Some were 11 GHz, some were 18 GHz, only one or two 7.5 GHz. Throughput matched the nominal 200/300/400 Mbps for small packets; for large packets, 170 out of 200 Mbps and 360 out of 400 Mbps; those values are consistent with IP-based (not SDH/PDH) radios (they are not 140 or 155 Mbps multiples), but is the total opposite of what we would usually expect, as it is easier for the radio to deal with small packets, not harder. Considering the Internet traffic has 50% of 64 bytes packets, that would make the I-mix throughput pretty close to nominal; the monitoring software has RMON capabilities so you can see your packet size distribution in real time. Adaptive modulation worked hitless for reducing speed during rain periods, but not every time it would go up again. It was a 50-50 chance that ACM would bring the modulation up again, so it's an index you want to be looking at your NOC. We did some firmware upgrades without issues; license upgrades were trickier and sometimes Ceragon had to generate license files again after we've sent the output from the failed upgrades. Except for 7.5 GHz units all the models had integrated antennas; we regret boughting those from RFS instead of Andrew, but Ceragon offered both and the decision was based on price... :-( Rubens On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Paolo Di Francesco paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote: Just curious, what about Ceragon? Any good/bad experience with them? Regards We just did a multi leg 11 Ghz system, 2 21 miles plus links. We are in rain zone N so lets see how they hold. Used Trango Apex with 4.75 dishes (Trango Branded) Rssi was as expected in the low 50's. Full 256 QAM (260 + Mbps) Did I mention both were over water? You cant go wrong with Trango o DW Horizon Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:24 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Looking for options... Trango Apex is on top of my list for
Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB?
Doesn't everyone that puts up licensed 6+ ghz links just use waveguide and leave radio's down in the shelter where they need to be? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Kennedy Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Oh, and PoE seemed too Unlicensed-ish for us. I hate dealing with PoE with any equipment backhauls, no matter the brand. We need the ability to mount a licensed link without worrying how far the Cat5 run is. We have also had some serious issues with Cat5 lightning arrestors and we would really rather not deal with those headaches on our licensed backhauls. They need to be five 9's =) On 4/20/10 10:21 PM, lakel...@gbcx.net lakel...@gbcx.net wrote: What turned you off to Dragonwave? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Adam Kennedy adamkenn...@omnicity.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:40:59 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? What issues did you have with Nera? We were looking to go with them due to the issues we have had with Ceragon. We looked at Dragonwave as well but several things turned us off of them. I don't know of any other big players that can do 200+ mbit with options of 11Ghz, 6Ghz and external antennas (We also use Andrews). On 4/20/10 1:32 PM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: Prior to be replaced with Ceragon, most of the radios were Nera (bad choice) with Andrew antennas (good choice). The Andrew antennas had better alignment controls and, most important, better fixation and waterproofing. Andrew antennas also had more diameter options, like having three-feet, not just two or four-feet. Rubens On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: regret boughting those from RFS instead of Andrew, but Ceragon offered both and the decision was based on price... :-( Why do you dislike the RFS antenna compared to the Andrews? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Only good experience with them. The radios just work. Some were 11 GHz, some were 18 GHz, only one or two 7.5 GHz. Throughput matched the nominal 200/300/400 Mbps for small packets; for large packets, 170 out of 200 Mbps and 360 out of 400 Mbps; those values are consistent with IP-based (not SDH/PDH) radios (they are not 140 or 155 Mbps multiples), but is the total opposite of what we would usually expect, as it is easier for the radio to deal with small packets, not harder. Considering the Internet traffic has 50% of 64 bytes packets, that would make the I-mix throughput pretty close to nominal; the monitoring software has RMON capabilities so you can see your packet size distribution in real time. Adaptive modulation worked hitless for reducing speed during rain periods, but not every time it would go up again. It was a 50-50 chance that ACM would bring the modulation up again, so it's an index you want to be looking at your NOC. We did some firmware upgrades without issues; license upgrades were trickier and sometimes Ceragon had to generate license files again after we've sent the output from the failed upgrades. Except for 7.5 GHz units all the models had integrated antennas; we regret boughting those from RFS instead of Andrew, but Ceragon offered both and the decision was based on price... :-( Rubens On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Paolo Di Francesco paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote: Just curious, what about Ceragon? Any good/bad experience with them? Regards We just did a multi leg 11 Ghz system, 2 21 miles plus links. We are in rain zone N so lets see how they hold. Used Trango Apex with 4.75 dishes (Trango Branded) Rssi was as expected in the low 50's. Full 256 QAM (260 + Mbps) Did I mention both were over water? You cant go wrong with Trango o DW Horizon Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:24 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Looking for options... Trango Apex is on top of my list for now. If that needs to change let me know... thanks. Kinda sticking to 11Ghz because I need to keep the dishes at 4ft or under. In Florida. Any other better options let me know. Thanks for your time Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless
Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB?
One would think. However the Dragonwave equipment we saw was PoE. But again, We haven't seen a demo of Dragonwave since 2007. We have used Ceragon and Nera recently (this year). Has anyone seen issues with Nera equipment? What problems did you have? On 4/21/10 11:18 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Doesn't everyone that puts up licensed 6+ ghz links just use waveguide and leave radio's down in the shelter where they need to be? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Kennedy Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Oh, and PoE seemed too Unlicensed-ish for us. I hate dealing with PoE with any equipment backhauls, no matter the brand. We need the ability to mount a licensed link without worrying how far the Cat5 run is. We have also had some serious issues with Cat5 lightning arrestors and we would really rather not deal with those headaches on our licensed backhauls. They need to be five 9's =) On 4/20/10 10:21 PM, lakel...@gbcx.net lakel...@gbcx.net wrote: What turned you off to Dragonwave? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Adam Kennedy adamkenn...@omnicity.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:40:59 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? What issues did you have with Nera? We were looking to go with them due to the issues we have had with Ceragon. We looked at Dragonwave as well but several things turned us off of them. I don't know of any other big players that can do 200+ mbit with options of 11Ghz, 6Ghz and external antennas (We also use Andrews). On 4/20/10 1:32 PM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: Prior to be replaced with Ceragon, most of the radios were Nera (bad choice) with Andrew antennas (good choice). The Andrew antennas had better alignment controls and, most important, better fixation and waterproofing. Andrew antennas also had more diameter options, like having three-feet, not just two or four-feet. Rubens On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: regret boughting those from RFS instead of Andrew, but Ceragon offered both and the decision was based on price... :-( Why do you dislike the RFS antenna compared to the Andrews? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Only good experience with them. The radios just work. Some were 11 GHz, some were 18 GHz, only one or two 7.5 GHz. Throughput matched the nominal 200/300/400 Mbps for small packets; for large packets, 170 out of 200 Mbps and 360 out of 400 Mbps; those values are consistent with IP-based (not SDH/PDH) radios (they are not 140 or 155 Mbps multiples), but is the total opposite of what we would usually expect, as it is easier for the radio to deal with small packets, not harder. Considering the Internet traffic has 50% of 64 bytes packets, that would make the I-mix throughput pretty close to nominal; the monitoring software has RMON capabilities so you can see your packet size distribution in real time. Adaptive modulation worked hitless for reducing speed during rain periods, but not every time it would go up again. It was a 50-50 chance that ACM would bring the modulation up again, so it's an index you want to be looking at your NOC. We did some firmware upgrades without issues; license upgrades were trickier and sometimes Ceragon had to generate license files again after we've sent the output from the failed upgrades. Except for 7.5 GHz units all the models had integrated antennas; we regret boughting those from RFS instead of Andrew, but Ceragon offered both and the decision was based on price... :-( Rubens On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Paolo Di Francesco paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote: Just curious, what about Ceragon? Any good/bad experience with them? Regards We just did a multi leg 11 Ghz system, 2 21 miles plus links. We are in rain zone N so lets see how they hold. Used Trango Apex with 4.75 dishes (Trango Branded) Rssi was as expected in the low 50's. Full 256 QAM (260 + Mbps) Did I mention both were over water? You cant go wrong with Trango o DW Horizon Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:24 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Best Backhaul
Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB?
All 20+ of my licensed links are PoE with the radio on the back of the dish. Saves us money at tower locations where they charge per U of rack space. :) Travis Microserv Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Doesn't everyone that puts up licensed 6+ ghz links just use waveguide and leave radio's down in the shelter where they need to be? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Adam Kennedy Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Oh, and PoE seemed too Unlicensed-ish for us. I hate dealing with PoE with any equipment backhauls, no matter the brand. We need the ability to mount a licensed link without worrying how far the Cat5 run is. We have also had some serious issues with Cat5 lightning arrestors and we would really rather not deal with those headaches on our licensed backhauls. They need to be five 9's =) On 4/20/10 10:21 PM, lakel...@gbcx.net lakel...@gbcx.net wrote: What turned you off to Dragonwave? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Adam Kennedy adamkenn...@omnicity.net Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:40:59 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? What issues did you have with Nera? We were looking to go with them due to the issues we have had with Ceragon. We looked at Dragonwave as well but several things turned us off of them. I don't know of any other big players that can do 200+ mbit with options of 11Ghz, 6Ghz and external antennas (We also use Andrews). On 4/20/10 1:32 PM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: Prior to be replaced with Ceragon, most of the radios were Nera (bad choice) with Andrew antennas (good choice). The Andrew antennas had better alignment controls and, most important, better fixation and waterproofing. Andrew antennas also had more diameter options, like having three-feet, not just two or four-feet. Rubens On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: regret boughting those from RFS instead of Andrew, but Ceragon offered both and the decision was based on price... :-( Why do you dislike the RFS antenna compared to the Andrews? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Only good experience with them. The radios just work. Some were 11 GHz, some were 18 GHz, only one or two 7.5 GHz. Throughput matched the nominal 200/300/400 Mbps for small packets; for large packets, 170 out of 200 Mbps and 360 out of 400 Mbps; those values are consistent with IP-based (not SDH/PDH) radios (they are not 140 or 155 Mbps multiples), but is the total opposite of what we would usually expect, as it is easier for the radio to deal with small packets, not harder. Considering the Internet traffic has 50% of 64 bytes packets, that would make the I-mix throughput pretty close to nominal; the monitoring software has RMON capabilities so you can see your packet size distribution in real time. Adaptive modulation worked hitless for reducing speed during rain periods, but not every time it would go up again. It was a 50-50 chance that ACM would bring the modulation up again, so it's an index you want to be looking at your NOC. We did some firmware upgrades without issues; license upgrades were trickier and sometimes Ceragon had to generate license files again after we've sent the output from the failed upgrades. Except for 7.5 GHz units all the models had integrated antennas; we regret boughting those from RFS instead of Andrew, but Ceragon offered both and the decision was based on price... :-( Rubens On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Paolo Di Francesco paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com wrote: Just curious, what about Ceragon? Any good/bad experience with them? Regards We just did a multi leg 11 Ghz system, 2 21 miles plus links. We are in rain zone N so lets see how they hold. Used Trango Apex with 4.75 dishes (Trango Branded) Rssi was as expected in the low 50's. Full 256 QAM (260 + Mbps) Did I mention both were over water? You cant go wrong with Trango o DW Horizon Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:24 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA]
[WISPA] point to Multi-point
hi, Im supposed to do a project to interconnect three satelite campuses to the Hq. I was looking for solutions, im thinking of using MikrotikThe campuses are on average 5Km apart. Can anyone who has done such a project give me ideas or point me in the right direction, on hardware/setup i should use. Thanks Frank WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] point to Multi-point
What are the bandwidth requirements? LOS between points? On 4/20/2010 11:40 PM, Frank Ombech wrote: hi, Im supposed to do a project to interconnect three satelite campuses to the Hq. I was looking for solutions, im thinking of using MikrotikThe campuses are on average 5Km apart. Can anyone who has done such a project give me ideas or point me in the right direction, on hardware/setup i should use. Thanks Frank WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chris Gotstein Sr Network Engineer UP Logon/Computer Connection UP 500 N Stephenson Ave Iron Mountain, MI 49801 Phone: 906-774-4847 Fax: 906-774-0335 ch...@uplogon.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] point to Multi-point
There is LOS between the points, The bandwidth requirements are not so much, the connections will be used as WAN connection to access internet and some applications at the Hq so anything around 20MB should be sufficient. On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 7:42 AM, Chris Gotstein ch...@uplogon.com wrote: What are the bandwidth requirements? LOS between points? On 4/20/2010 11:40 PM, Frank Ombech wrote: hi, Im supposed to do a project to interconnect three satelite campuses to the Hq. I was looking for solutions, im thinking of using MikrotikThe campuses are on average 5Km apart. Can anyone who has done such a project give me ideas or point me in the right direction, on hardware/setup i should use. Thanks Frank WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chris Gotstein Sr Network Engineer UP Logon/Computer Connection UP 500 N Stephenson Ave Iron Mountain, MI 49801 Phone: 906-774-4847 Fax: 906-774-0335 ch...@uplogon.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] point to Multi-point
Mikrotik would be a good low cost solution. If you are looking for something that is completely integrated, I like Tranzeo or Solectek 5.8 gear. On 4/20/2010 11:48 PM, Frank Ombech wrote: There is LOS between the points, The bandwidth requirements are not so much, the connections will be used as WAN connection to access internet and some applications at the Hq so anything around 20MB should be sufficient. On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 7:42 AM, Chris Gotsteinch...@uplogon.com wrote: What are the bandwidth requirements? LOS between points? On 4/20/2010 11:40 PM, Frank Ombech wrote: hi, Im supposed to do a project to interconnect three satelite campuses to the Hq. I was looking for solutions, im thinking of using MikrotikThe campuses are on average 5Km apart. Can anyone who has done such a project give me ideas or point me in the right direction, on hardware/setup i should use. Thanks Frank WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chris Gotstein Sr Network Engineer UP Logon/Computer Connection UP 500 N Stephenson Ave Iron Mountain, MI 49801 Phone: 906-774-4847 Fax: 906-774-0335 ch...@uplogon.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chris Gotstein Sr Network Engineer UP Logon/Computer Connection UP 500 N Stephenson Ave Iron Mountain, MI 49801 Phone: 906-774-4847 Fax: 906-774-0335 ch...@uplogon.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz? OFFLIST
so what wimax gear are you using? Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 From: Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:18 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz? All I can say is that the effects of a lower modulated customer on my alvarion system seem to have a more profound impact on the system than what I have seen so far on 3.65. Granted I've only had the wimax up for 8 months and that's the only data I have to go on. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 9:10 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: There is no protocol design that can achieve that. A TDD system is a population of time slots; if a bunch of users (not just a couple) with high traffic demand (not low traffic or small bursts) have low modulation, it will talke more time slots to serve them. If a fairness system based on bandwidth is in place them all of the users will still suffer; if a fairness system based on time-slots is in place they won't get the service you promised them. There is no free lunch. I've run a 3.5 GHz WiMAX system with 3.5 MHz channels and the base station was always complaining the system was too oversubscribed; guess what, it was right, we were trying to serve more than feasible CIR/MIR traffic on those BSTs. Having a rule that only QAM16/QAM64 stations were allowed improved this problem a lot. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I too have heard from others that WIMAX was designed so that the customers with poor connections don't take performance away from the rest with good connections. So far I have yet to hear ANYONE disprove this. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz? I am not using alvarion 3.65 but I am using wimax. I have a couple customers with lower modulation because of non line of site situations and have seen no impact on the entire system in general. Supposedly wimax is engineered to handle some of this better than my alvarion 900. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:15 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: That would only be true if the data services are somewhat purpose-specific and not Internet access. Doing what this vendor told you would seriously affect aggregate performance of the cell because of low rate modulation of the NLOS and/or distant customers. If you are doing sensor networks or POS connection you will be fine with all those BPSK/QPSK customers, indeed. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz?
Oops not offlist good thing it wasn't a secret ;) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 From: Jeremie Chism jchi...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 10:18 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz? All I can say is that the effects of a lower modulated customer on my alvarion system seem to have a more profound impact on the system than what I have seen so far on 3.65. Granted I've only had the wimax up for 8 months and that's the only data I have to go on. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 9:10 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: There is no protocol design that can achieve that. A TDD system is a population of time slots; if a bunch of users (not just a couple) with high traffic demand (not low traffic or small bursts) have low modulation, it will talke more time slots to serve them. If a fairness system based on bandwidth is in place them all of the users will still suffer; if a fairness system based on time-slots is in place they won't get the service you promised them. There is no free lunch. I've run a 3.5 GHz WiMAX system with 3.5 MHz channels and the base station was always complaining the system was too oversubscribed; guess what, it was right, we were trying to serve more than feasible CIR/MIR traffic on those BSTs. Having a rule that only QAM16/QAM64 stations were allowed improved this problem a lot. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: I too have heard from others that WIMAX was designed so that the customers with poor connections don't take performance away from the rest with good connections. So far I have yet to hear ANYONE disprove this. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jeremie Chism Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion 3.65ghz NLOS as good as 900mhz? I am not using alvarion 3.65 but I am using wimax. I have a couple customers with lower modulation because of non line of site situations and have seen no impact on the entire system in general. Supposedly wimax is engineered to handle some of this better than my alvarion 900. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:15 AM, Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com wrote: That would only be true if the data services are somewhat purpose-specific and not Internet access. Doing what this vendor told you would seriously affect aggregate performance of the cell because of low rate modulation of the NLOS and/or distant customers. If you are doing sensor networks or POS connection you will be fine with all those BPSK/QPSK customers, indeed. Rubens On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Has anyone seen the Alvarion 3.65ghz 802.16e equipment in operation? Was talking to one vendor that claimed if you run the system in MIMO that with the diversity you can do NLOS as good as 900mhz and if you get the AP on a 300ft tower that it starts to feel like 700mhz. He claimed the NLOS was so good that people are ripping out complete old systems of 900mhz and 2.4ghz and putting in the single system of 3.65ghz to serve their entire customer base. Just wondering if anyone has experience or having seen this firsthand. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- ---
Re: [WISPA] point to Multi-point
I would definitely use two ptp links. 411ah and xr5 boards. 20mhz channels will get you a solid 30 megs. If you want a full parts list let me know. On 4/21/10, Chris Gotstein ch...@uplogon.com wrote: Mikrotik would be a good low cost solution. If you are looking for something that is completely integrated, I like Tranzeo or Solectek 5.8 gear. On 4/20/2010 11:48 PM, Frank Ombech wrote: There is LOS between the points, The bandwidth requirements are not so much, the connections will be used as WAN connection to access internet and some applications at the Hq so anything around 20MB should be sufficient. On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 7:42 AM, Chris Gotsteinch...@uplogon.com wrote: What are the bandwidth requirements? LOS between points? On 4/20/2010 11:40 PM, Frank Ombech wrote: hi, Im supposed to do a project to interconnect three satelite campuses to the Hq. I was looking for solutions, im thinking of using MikrotikThe campuses are on average 5Km apart. Can anyone who has done such a project give me ideas or point me in the right direction, on hardware/setup i should use. Thanks Frank WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chris Gotstein Sr Network Engineer UP Logon/Computer Connection UP 500 N Stephenson Ave Iron Mountain, MI 49801 Phone: 906-774-4847 Fax: 906-774-0335 ch...@uplogon.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chris Gotstein Sr Network Engineer UP Logon/Computer Connection UP 500 N Stephenson Ave Iron Mountain, MI 49801 Phone: 906-774-4847 Fax: 906-774-0335 ch...@uplogon.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB?
Hey Brad... I'm not familiar with this gear (or any at 11Ghz). Trango ran the analysis and came back with 4 9's for the link. There was about 35db rain fade margin at 100Mb rate. I assume maybe a problem in a torrential downpour but will a good ole regular rain take the link out? I've got burstable bandwidth that can cutover when / if the link goes down on 95th percentile usage so if it doesn't happen often it shouldn't be noticed or matter. Just want to get the 100Mb from the other city when available cause its less expensive. I'm actually considering two back-to-back apex links 18 mile hop on first one and 25 mile hop on next one. Numbers look good on the link path analysis not considering rain (all the 11gig links have 4ft 40db antennas spec'd) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:56 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Ceragon is great gear, but a good bit more expensive than Trango Apex. 11Ghz will easily rain fade at 20miles in our K or M rain zone. We have 14mile 11GHz links that have faded with rain I can't imagine Florida with a N rain zone (the worst rain zone in N America) will be a good place for a long 11Ghz path much less 20 mile path! I guess it just depends on what level of availability your path requires. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paolo Di Francesco Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:36 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Just curious, what about Ceragon? Any good/bad experience with them? Regards We just did a multi leg 11 Ghz system, 2 21 miles plus links. We are in rain zone N so lets see how they hold. Used Trango Apex with 4.75 dishes (Trango Branded) Rssi was as expected in the low 50's. Full 256 QAM (260 + Mbps) Did I mention both were over water? You cant go wrong with Trango o DW Horizon Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:24 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Best Backhaul link 11Ghz 20 miles @ 100MB? Looking for options... Trango Apex is on top of my list for now. If that needs to change let me know... thanks. Kinda sticking to 11Ghz because I need to keep the dishes at 4ft or under. In Florida. Any other better options let me know. Thanks for your time Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform s.r.l. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] atmail mail server or similar products
smartermail Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 From: Paolo Di Francesco paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:10 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] atmail mail server or similar products Hi All, I am giving a look to some email server in-house applications. One is atmail (atmail.com) which is a rebranded-zimbra (or it looks to be similar). They have an ISP license, so I was thinking that maybe you can tell me your success/horror stories with in-house products. At the moment I am not thinking of hosted services, so the in-house looks the only solution. Suggestions are very welcome ;) -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform s.r.l. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] atmail mail server or similar products
Zimbra, we've been using the Open Source version, been running solid for about 1 year. Regards Michael Baird smartermail Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 From: Paolo Di Francescopaolo.difrance...@teleinform.com Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:10 AM To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] atmail mail server or similar products Hi All, I am giving a look to some email server in-house applications. One is atmail (atmail.com) which is a rebranded-zimbra (or it looks to be similar). They have an ISP license, so I was thinking that maybe you can tell me your success/horror stories with in-house products. At the moment I am not thinking of hosted services, so the in-house looks the only solution. Suggestions are very welcome ;) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
