RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
I bet she's a handful... I got 2 boys...5 and 1 years old... oh man and I thought wisp was thought business Jeje see you at Winog Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.767.7466 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 10:49 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices Hey Charles ... long time no see ... any winog on 2006 ? Hi Gino Been Extremely Busy: http://www.winog.com/austin_2006/kaili_wu.jpg Now that she FINALLY sleeps through the night, I'm able to start actually concentrating and focusing at work again, and yes, WiNOG this year will be from March 13-15, 2006 in Austin, TX -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Brian, I have a site that been up for a couple years here http://www.wisp-coop.com/ Take a look see and I will forward you the admin password if you want to use it Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. www.inetsouth.com www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts) 318-728-8600 - Rayville 318-728-9600 318-376-2562 - cell Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I'm getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea. Can anyone (principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk about this. ASAP! Thanks Brian Charles Wu wrote: I know you don't support the idea of group buys. It's not that I don't support the concept, truthfully, I could care less whether you buy your gear from a distributor, reseller, or direct from the manufacturer I have just seen it implemented (rather unsuccessfully) many times by ISPs such as yourselves, and am trying to help you avoid making such a mistake The idea of a WISP buying group is nothing original, for the past few years, I've seen this idea come up at least once a month on some WISP listserv / forum / etc... However, if it was really that easy and simple -- why hasn't it been implemented yet on a consistent long term basis? Here's my observation -The guys that fail with their buying group end up getting their inventory liquidated on Ebay, go bankrupt and disappear -The guys that just barely sell their inventory realize how much of a PITA the organization/operation is, and go back to buying from their distributor/reseller/etc -The guys that are extremely successful become resellers/distributors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
I guess I should have read the complete thread before making my last post :-) Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. www.inetsouth.com www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts) 318-728-8600 - Rayville 318-728-9600 318-376-2562 - cell Mac Dearman wrote: Brian, I have a site that been up for a couple years here http://www.wisp-coop.com/ Take a look see and I will forward you the admin password if you want to use it Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. www.inetsouth.com www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts) 318-728-8600 - Rayville 318-728-9600 318-376-2562 - cell Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I'm getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea. Can anyone (principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk about this. ASAP! Thanks Brian Charles Wu wrote: I know you don't support the idea of group buys. It's not that I don't support the concept, truthfully, I could care less whether you buy your gear from a distributor, reseller, or direct from the manufacturer I have just seen it implemented (rather unsuccessfully) many times by ISPs such as yourselves, and am trying to help you avoid making such a mistake The idea of a WISP buying group is nothing original, for the past few years, I've seen this idea come up at least once a month on some WISP listserv / forum / etc... However, if it was really that easy and simple -- why hasn't it been implemented yet on a consistent long term basis? Here's my observation -The guys that fail with their buying group end up getting their inventory liquidated on Ebay, go bankrupt and disappear -The guys that just barely sell their inventory realize how much of a PITA the organization/operation is, and go back to buying from their distributor/reseller/etc -The guys that are extremely successful become resellers/distributors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
I apologize if this is not appropriate, just trying to help. We are member of WISPA and helping some WISP's purchase equipment. Please contact me off list, can give pricing want to support the WISPA members. Don Renner Helix Technologies, Inc. 8550 W. Main St. French Lick, IN 47432 812-936-2525office 812-936-2006fax 812-521-1876cell -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 12:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices I'll make some calls tomorrow and see what the distributors say. Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, There are so many risks that _someone_ is going to have to assume. Example: If I say put me down for 20 units and here's my credit card. You place the order with the distributor, and I get my items. However, either the distributor will put each order in different names (thus, once the boss finds out it will be done), or they all go under a single name. Now, with my credit card being charged, but only a single invoice created for the big order, I can contact my credit card company and file a chargeback. There will be no invoice for the purchase, and nothing in my name. I just got 20 radios for free and the distributor just lost big money. This is only one example. There are 10 other risks to this project and someone will have to take them all... Why not just lease your CPE? Even doing 25 at a time, I think you can get 30 or 60 days before your first payment. Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the distrobuters and saying this. I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them all shipped to different addresses and charged to different accounts. What are you willing to do to accomidate us? I know there are a number of distobuters out there. Ones that do millions worth of gear all the way down to ones that operate WISPs and became resellers of the gear they use in order to get their volume up. If ten people can install ten a month. That is 1200 a year. If we look, I bet there is a reseller somewhere who wants to increase volume by 1200 a year. 5k a year wouldn't be stretching the imagination too far either. Am I dumb here guys? Why wouldn't this work? Tom DeReggi wrote: Charles, I fully second your post. Well said. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Well hell Gino Where are you buying? i want a piece of that too. Original message Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:23:49 -0700 From: A. Huppenthal [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org great prices! G.Villarini wrote: $100 for a 900 antenna? Yikes man were are buying? I buy 11 db yagis for around $40 , 15 db for $60 and 17db for $80 Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.767.7466 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of A. Huppenthal Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 6:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices we're talking 900 mhz, right? I don't use Moto 2.4 or 900 mhz stuff. never tried 2.4 and the 900 mhz didn't work for me - but it was a press. some 15 miles with NLOS so.. it could have been a path too challanging even for 900 mhz. $295 for a 900 mhz radios is very good. You still have to add $100 for a 900 mhz antenna. I've stayed away from 900 mhz mostly because of the learning curve and additional spectrum/antenna considerations. They are much bigger of course than 5.7 or 5.7 antennas/reflectors for the same gain, but that's obvious. Still $260 for 5.7 ghz radio with spectrum analyzer built-in, audio tone alignment, weights a few ounces, goes a few megabits / second, supports vlan tagging, dhcp / nat / shoulder-spectrums / has snmp / is supported by a network mass-firmware upgrade program (yes, its really crap, but at least its *there*). I could easily do remote upgrades of 30 units at a time without headache to move to new featured firmware - live, online, no crap-outs... Like I said, it isn't for everyone, that's for sure. It just was for me. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I've never done business with them either, but their 100 pack prices is 295 each for connectorized. Cheaper then some roll your own. A. Huppenthal wrote: I'm not a supplier, nor do I want to be one to the list, nor do I want to research on behalf of the list. google: motorola canopy SM bulk 100 pack. I picked the first couple of hits that showed prices.. That's it. I don't do business with Double Radius, so I wouldn't know. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-50 $26,250 Double Radius has 25 pack for : $8,500.00 double to 50 pack and it 17k Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can avoid at all costs. The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius. HOLY CRAP! Unless I am reading something wrong... http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f A. Huppenthal wrote: I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'. However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - I'm all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your ass kicked by the telco and cable company - they have buying power and can get what you want and buy in 10s and 20s for 1/2 the price. Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity of our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is a part of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained in my business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs at the *first* WISPA meeting. In fact, I'd likely talk about it at ISPCON as well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really needs to pull together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a WISP), better pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules (FCC and others through a louder voice). I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-) Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. Buy 500 and get them at $444 instead. Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier. 432679900 Mhz Access Point9000AP $1,895 427612900 Mhz Access Point AES9001AP $2,395 498606900 Mhz Access Point Connectorized (External antenna) 9000APC $1,855 487642900 Mhz Access Point AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001APC $2,355 432631Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-50 $26,250 452650Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-100 $47,500 459676Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-500 $222,500 460660Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-50 $24,250 467696Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-100 $43,500 483635Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-500 $202,500 433674900 Mhz
RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Now there's an optimistic view, thanks Charles. But sometimes true, Original message Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 20:25:36 -0600 From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Ron Wallace Hahnron, Inc. 220 S. Jackson St. Addison, MI 49220 Phone: (517) 547-8410 Mobile: (517) 605-4542 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Go for it Brian, Doesn't matter what others think, if we can save some money, good. Ron Wallace Original message Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:58:47 -0500 From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org I have never done a group buy, but this is how I would approach it. First step. Principal Members only. You want a deal, fork over 200 some bucks and support the industry. Second step. Find 10 people who want ten units. (500 if possible, but prolly 100 pack to start) Third step. Go to moto website and look up resellers. fourth step. Call resellers and get quote. Say look here. I have a buying group. I want 100 SMs, charged to 10 credit cards and shipped to 10 addresses. Send me a quote to email Forward quote to next reseller and go from there. Whoever is cheaper wins. If they want the business of the buying group, they better figure out how to cut a deal. Am I acting like a know it all Charles? Would all the resellers say screw you if I approached like this? If all resellers say we can't do this.then I would (big trust here) run all cards through paypal and pay with one lump sum and re ship from here. Now add the 1.9% for paypal and add more for extra shippingdon't know what that would be, but it would be figured before hand. I just made all that up, but it seems like it would work. Only question is how warranty is handled. By MAC addy or by who bought the radio. Someone let me know if my approach is out of line. Never done this and might be reinventing the wheel (I hope it rolls) Brian A. Huppenthal wrote: Charles, I know you don't support the idea of group buys. Enough said. Fact is I've done group buys with high-end equipment before - it wasn't difficult at all. If you are comparing a public distributor to a closed membership buying club, you aren't comparing apples to apples. I sure as hell don't want to create a distributor organization. However, as our discussion continues, I might be willing to send Jim, George, Brian or whomever offers a group buy $2600 for 10 Canopy SMs if the buy is 100 units and we're all lined up. I don't need support, training, stocking, any of the services that distributors offer. Frankly, I don't need my distributor under cutting me to sell direct to customers. You have your pros and cons for going to distributors for *everything*. Certainly what's being discussed here isn't pretending to create a distributor that has *everything*.. Frankly I think the board with the exception of myself, uniformly doesn't support group buys. The buyers create the relatonship for the purpose of the buy, it ends when the product is delivered. Charles Wu wrote: snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Sounds good to me Brian. Try it. All they can say is 'no'. As for all the down sides, we haven't bought anything yet. Lets go one step at a time here. But I say go for it. Original message Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:52:52 -0500 From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the distrobuters and saying this. I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them all shipped to different addresses and charged to different accounts. What are you willing to do to accomidate us? I know there are a number of distobuters out there. Ones that do millions worth of gear all the way down to ones that operate WISPs and became resellers of the gear they use in order to get their volume up. If ten people can install ten a month. That is 1200 a year. If we look, I bet there is a reseller somewhere who wants to increase volume by 1200 a year. 5k a year wouldn't be stretching the imagination too far either. Am I dumb here guys? Why wouldn't this work? Tom DeReggi wrote: Charles, I fully second your post. Well said. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Ron Wallace Hahnron, Inc. 220 S. Jackson St. Addison, MI 49220 Phone: (517) 547-8410 Mobile: (517) 605-4542 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
frankly, if I'm buying them for 50% off, I'll buy a spare for every 50 units I buy. failure rate on moto's is about 1 in 100 Travis Johnson wrote: And, the other issue is the purchase will be made in the group name, so how do you handle warranty issues? Travis Microserv Charles Wu wrote: snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Warranty? what warranty? Do you all really have warranty problems. Switch vendors. :-) Moto doesn't have a warranty program. They die, you throw them away. Returning them to my x-distributor resulted in the same thing. They lost the returns. Screw it. Buy cheap and manage your own warranty. If you really want the warranty, perhaps the group buy co-ordinator would like to recive $2 extra per radio to put up a website with MAC addresses and to handle each return for $20. But really, I don't want to have anything to do with warrenty - We're talking $250 items. If you are buying lots of APs, well, get a spare and return through the distributor that sold the 'lot' to the buying group. Moto doesn't sell direct for example - unless you are government. Hey, wait, can we be a government? Know anyone on an Indian reservation? They are a government. :-) Perhaps they'd like to get involved. There are few Indian businesses in my area, unfortunately. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I have never done a group buy, but this is how I would approach it. First step. Principal Members only. You want a deal, fork over 200 some bucks and support the industry. Second step. Find 10 people who want ten units. (500 if possible, but prolly 100 pack to start) Third step. Go to moto website and look up resellers. fourth step. Call resellers and get quote. Say look here. I have a buying group. I want 100 SMs, charged to 10 credit cards and shipped to 10 addresses. Send me a quote to email Forward quote to next reseller and go from there. Whoever is cheaper wins. If they want the business of the buying group, they better figure out how to cut a deal. Am I acting like a know it all Charles? Would all the resellers say screw you if I approached like this? If all resellers say we can't do this.then I would (big trust here) run all cards through paypal and pay with one lump sum and re ship from here. Now add the 1.9% for paypal and add more for extra shippingdon't know what that would be, but it would be figured before hand. I just made all that up, but it seems like it would work. Only question is how warranty is handled. By MAC addy or by who bought the radio. Someone let me know if my approach is out of line. Never done this and might be reinventing the wheel (I hope it rolls) Brian A. Huppenthal wrote: Charles, I know you don't support the idea of group buys. Enough said. Fact is I've done group buys with high-end equipment before - it wasn't difficult at all. If you are comparing a public distributor to a closed membership buying club, you aren't comparing apples to apples. I sure as hell don't want to create a distributor organization. However, as our discussion continues, I might be willing to send Jim, George, Brian or whomever offers a group buy $2600 for 10 Canopy SMs if the buy is 100 units and we're all lined up. I don't need support, training, stocking, any of the services that distributors offer. Frankly, I don't need my distributor under cutting me to sell direct to customers. You have your pros and cons for going to distributors for *everything*. Certainly what's being discussed here isn't pretending to create a distributor that has *everything*.. Frankly I think the board with the exception of myself, uniformly doesn't support group buys. The buyers create the relatonship for the purpose of the buy, it ends when the product is delivered. Charles Wu wrote: snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee /
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Like I said 1 to 100 failures. Usually we drop them from a roof, or run one over.. Often times they still work, but often they don't Its a piece of plastic housing with a single board inside. You can get a replacement case for $15 as I recall. Nice to have a few around for demo to customers. They build them for $25 probably, open one up - there's nothing in there. An Altera FPGA - well, other programmable gate array.. basically 'make your hardware' on a chip technology. Check out HDLs if you are interested - its how I designed our first DSL modem. Moto isn't stupid. Its a good design. The hardware just jumped up a bit in complexity recently - but the price jump was nuts. Moto stays in this business becasue they are making lots and lots of money. Its not a lost leader. As far as hacking them go.. well, Rich Comroe might tell us.. Hey Rich - can we get an HDL for the Moto? :-) oh yea, I can see this list cracking open the HDL.. :-) its such a paradigm change... it isn't really like programming, well.. as much as programming is like jazz dancing, I suppose. But crapola boys, we have on the smartest guys in the Motorola Land - one of their top technology leaders as a member of list here. Ask him, I'm not anywhere close to the design other than tearing the chips appart out of curiousity. He's not sales man, Rich, didn't we first meet when you were VP of Engineering @ Moto? I could be wrong it was yonks ago. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Well, I'm not a Canopy user, but am close to making the leap. (would have done it long time ago if gear was a reasonable price) Whoever buys the gear. Group name or Joe Blow. Attention Canopy users how are warranty issues handled? If I buy gear on ebay can I send it into Moto for warranty? Or is it void because I didn't buy from authorized reseller? Brian Travis Johnson wrote: And, the other issue is the purchase will be made in the group name, so how do you handle warranty issues? Travis Microserv Charles Wu wrote: snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
I like the 100 pack - but Mote sometimes gives away a couple of backhuals with a 500 pack and other promos.. They change from time to time, whomever wants to run with it will have to make some calls. once we go underground on this deal, we can have a couple of teleconferences, and I'll cough up my secrets. To some degree its not a good idea to get to the precise suppliers, prices, deals and so on on a public list.. Sometimes Moto takes a dim view of group buys, and snaps the elastic of the distributor in unpleasent ways Travis Johnson wrote: Also, how much of a real savings are you going to see buying a 500 pack compared with a 100 pack? I'm not sure how the pricing structure works with Moto, but with other places the biggest savings is from 10/20 packs to 100 or 250 packs. Going from 100 to 500 yields very minimal changes ($10 per SM/SU would be my guess). Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Well, I'm not a Canopy user, but am close to making the leap. (would have done it long time ago if gear was a reasonable price) Whoever buys the gear. Group name or Joe Blow. Attention Canopy users how are warranty issues handled? If I buy gear on ebay can I send it into Moto for warranty? Or is it void because I didn't buy from authorized reseller? Brian Travis Johnson wrote: And, the other issue is the purchase will be made in the group name, so how do you handle warranty issues? Travis Microserv Charles Wu wrote: snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
It'll work, you just do it. The details are all bulls*it. Set up a closed email list for people who are interested. If you can wait a week or two I can setup an email list for that, if you like. People who aren't interested are going to give you one million reason why the earth is flat, or whatever their view is. My only concern is that someone gets screwed because there is a liar, cheat, thief in the process. Else, its cheap gear for cheap prices that *works*. However, if your don't know that, likely you'll need an AP. hmmm... if anyone wants to borrow a 5.7 AP from me, you can. I'll lend it out for a week, you pay the post both ways and *if* it come back broken, *you* agree to replace it in 10 days with a working one. Turns out i have enough canopy stuff until late Jan. Contact me off-list if you like. Frankly if the group buy guy wants to handle loaners to the membership/group that's find with me. I'll toss $100 in the kitty toward 4 loaner APs - a 5.2, 5.7, 2.4 (junk) and 900 mhz (I'll never use).. Got a paypal account, I'll send the money now. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the distrobuters and saying this. I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them all shipped to different addresses and charged to different accounts. What are you willing to do to accomidate us? I know there are a number of distobuters out there. Ones that do millions worth of gear all the way down to ones that operate WISPs and became resellers of the gear they use in order to get their volume up. If ten people can install ten a month. That is 1200 a year. If we look, I bet there is a reseller somewhere who wants to increase volume by 1200 a year. 5k a year wouldn't be stretching the imagination too far either. Am I dumb here guys? Why wouldn't this work? Tom DeReggi wrote: Charles, I fully second your post. Well said. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
The risk should be - the guy who gets my money sends me my SMs.. These things come in single unit boxes, so repacking them isn't a huge deal. 10 boxes of 10 each? I think that's a reasonable limit. Trusting someone on the list to do the buy with my $2600 is fine. I'll do some due diligience on the group buyer. If there's some references, an address, a person we know, we'll that's all fine wit me. Paypal has some control over what you suggest is a hole. Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, There are so many risks that _someone_ is going to have to assume. Example: If I say put me down for 20 units and here's my credit card. You place the order with the distributor, and I get my items. However, either the distributor will put each order in different names (thus, once the boss finds out it will be done), or they all go under a single name. Now, with my credit card being charged, but only a single invoice created for the big order, I can contact my credit card company and file a chargeback. There will be no invoice for the purchase, and nothing in my name. I just got 20 radios for free and the distributor just lost big money. This is only one example. There are 10 other risks to this project and someone will have to take them all... Why not just lease your CPE? Even doing 25 at a time, I think you can get 30 or 60 days before your first payment. Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the distrobuters and saying this. I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them all shipped to different addresses and charged to different accounts. What are you willing to do to accomidate us? I know there are a number of distobuters out there. Ones that do millions worth of gear all the way down to ones that operate WISPs and became resellers of the gear they use in order to get their volume up. If ten people can install ten a month. That is 1200 a year. If we look, I bet there is a reseller somewhere who wants to increase volume by 1200 a year. 5k a year wouldn't be stretching the imagination too far either. Am I dumb here guys? Why wouldn't this work? Tom DeReggi wrote: Charles, I fully second your post. Well said. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
cool Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I'll make some calls tomorrow and see what the distributors say. Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, There are so many risks that _someone_ is going to have to assume. Example: If I say put me down for 20 units and here's my credit card. You place the order with the distributor, and I get my items. However, either the distributor will put each order in different names (thus, once the boss finds out it will be done), or they all go under a single name. Now, with my credit card being charged, but only a single invoice created for the big order, I can contact my credit card company and file a chargeback. There will be no invoice for the purchase, and nothing in my name. I just got 20 radios for free and the distributor just lost big money. This is only one example. There are 10 other risks to this project and someone will have to take them all... Why not just lease your CPE? Even doing 25 at a time, I think you can get 30 or 60 days before your first payment. Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the distrobuters and saying this. I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them all shipped to different addresses and charged to different accounts. What are you willing to do to accomidate us? I know there are a number of distobuters out there. Ones that do millions worth of gear all the way down to ones that operate WISPs and became resellers of the gear they use in order to get their volume up. If ten people can install ten a month. That is 1200 a year. If we look, I bet there is a reseller somewhere who wants to increase volume by 1200 a year. 5k a year wouldn't be stretching the imagination too far either. Am I dumb here guys? Why wouldn't this work? Tom DeReggi wrote: Charles, I fully second your post. Well said. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
I believe we can make it happen. Pretty much, few of us will go in and buy together. Probably going to just be a small group to stay under moto's radar. Enough to get a 100 pack at a time. A. Huppenthal wrote: I like the 100 pack - but Mote sometimes gives away a couple of backhuals with a 500 pack and other promos.. They change from time to time, whomever wants to run with it will have to make some calls. once we go underground on this deal, we can have a couple of teleconferences, and I'll cough up my secrets. To some degree its not a good idea to get to the precise suppliers, prices, deals and so on on a public list.. Sometimes Moto takes a dim view of group buys, and snaps the elastic of the distributor in unpleasent ways Travis Johnson wrote: Also, how much of a real savings are you going to see buying a 500 pack compared with a 100 pack? I'm not sure how the pricing structure works with Moto, but with other places the biggest savings is from 10/20 packs to 100 or 250 packs. Going from 100 to 500 yields very minimal changes ($10 per SM/SU would be my guess). Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Well, I'm not a Canopy user, but am close to making the leap. (would have done it long time ago if gear was a reasonable price) Whoever buys the gear. Group name or Joe Blow. Attention Canopy users how are warranty issues handled? If I buy gear on ebay can I send it into Moto for warranty? Or is it void because I didn't buy from authorized reseller? Brian Travis Johnson wrote: And, the other issue is the purchase will be made in the group name, so how do you handle warranty issues? Travis Microserv Charles Wu wrote: snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
I sure am not going to take anyone's money. :) Too bad you don't use 900, that is what I am trying to use to get this started. If you could set us a list asap, that would be great. Then we could add a dozen or so people to the list (people trusted and known)and talk about the details. A. Huppenthal wrote: It'll work, you just do it. The details are all bulls*it. Set up a closed email list for people who are interested. If you can wait a week or two I can setup an email list for that, if you like. People who aren't interested are going to give you one million reason why the earth is flat, or whatever their view is. My only concern is that someone gets screwed because there is a liar, cheat, thief in the process. Else, its cheap gear for cheap prices that *works*. However, if your don't know that, likely you'll need an AP. hmmm... if anyone wants to borrow a 5.7 AP from me, you can. I'll lend it out for a week, you pay the post both ways and *if* it come back broken, *you* agree to replace it in 10 days with a working one. Turns out i have enough canopy stuff until late Jan. Contact me off-list if you like. Frankly if the group buy guy wants to handle loaners to the membership/group that's find with me. I'll toss $100 in the kitty toward 4 loaner APs - a 5.2, 5.7, 2.4 (junk) and 900 mhz (I'll never use).. Got a paypal account, I'll send the money now. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the distrobuters and saying this. I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them all shipped to different addresses and charged to different accounts. What are you willing to do to accomidate us? I know there are a number of distobuters out there. Ones that do millions worth of gear all the way down to ones that operate WISPs and became resellers of the gear they use in order to get their volume up. If ten people can install ten a month. That is 1200 a year. If we look, I bet there is a reseller somewhere who wants to increase volume by 1200 a year. 5k a year wouldn't be stretching the imagination too far either. Am I dumb here guys? Why wouldn't this work? Tom DeReggi wrote: Charles, I fully second your post. Well said. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
The var said he'd rather not do credit cards (extra 3% if you want it) but he'll do that math and see. He assured me that the way we're doing it, he is the only one who could get stuck. Besides, this won't be open for public. This is just a few of us who are going to buy together. We all know each other. A. Huppenthal wrote: The risk should be - the guy who gets my money sends me my SMs.. These things come in single unit boxes, so repacking them isn't a huge deal. 10 boxes of 10 each? I think that's a reasonable limit. Trusting someone on the list to do the buy with my $2600 is fine. I'll do some due diligience on the group buyer. If there's some references, an address, a person we know, we'll that's all fine wit me. Paypal has some control over what you suggest is a hole. Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, There are so many risks that _someone_ is going to have to assume. Example: If I say put me down for 20 units and here's my credit card. You place the order with the distributor, and I get my items. However, either the distributor will put each order in different names (thus, once the boss finds out it will be done), or they all go under a single name. Now, with my credit card being charged, but only a single invoice created for the big order, I can contact my credit card company and file a chargeback. There will be no invoice for the purchase, and nothing in my name. I just got 20 radios for free and the distributor just lost big money. This is only one example. There are 10 other risks to this project and someone will have to take them all... Why not just lease your CPE? Even doing 25 at a time, I think you can get 30 or 60 days before your first payment. Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the distrobuters and saying this. I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them all shipped to different addresses and charged to different accounts. What are you willing to do to accomidate us? I know there are a number of distobuters out there. Ones that do millions worth of gear all the way down to ones that operate WISPs and became resellers of the gear they use in order to get their volume up. If ten people can install ten a month. That is 1200 a year. If we look, I bet there is a reseller somewhere who wants to increase volume by 1200 a year. 5k a year wouldn't be stretching the imagination too far either. Am I dumb here guys? Why wouldn't this work? Tom DeReggi wrote: Charles, I fully second your post. Well said. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269
RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
I know you don't support the idea of group buys. It's not that I don't support the concept, truthfully, I could care less whether you buy your gear from a distributor, reseller, or direct from the manufacturer I have just seen it implemented (rather unsuccessfully) many times by ISPs such as yourselves, and am trying to help you avoid making such a mistake The idea of a WISP buying group is nothing original, for the past few years, I've seen this idea come up at least once a month on some WISP listserv / forum / etc... However, if it was really that easy and simple -- why hasn't it been implemented yet on a consistent long term basis? Here's my observation -The guys that fail with their buying group end up getting their inventory liquidated on Ebay, go bankrupt and disappear -The guys that just barely sell their inventory realize how much of a PITA the organization/operation is, and go back to buying from their distributor/reseller/etc -The guys that are extremely successful become resellers/distributors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
I'm getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea. Can anyone (principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk about this. ASAP! Thanks Brian Charles Wu wrote: I know you don't support the idea of group buys. It's not that I don't support the concept, truthfully, I could care less whether you buy your gear from a distributor, reseller, or direct from the manufacturer I have just seen it implemented (rather unsuccessfully) many times by ISPs such as yourselves, and am trying to help you avoid making such a mistake The idea of a WISP buying group is nothing original, for the past few years, I've seen this idea come up at least once a month on some WISP listserv / forum / etc... However, if it was really that "easy and simple" -- why hasn't it been implemented yet on a consistent long term basis? Here's my observation -The guys that fail with their buying group end up getting their inventory liquidated on Ebay, go bankrupt and disappear -The guys that just barely sell their inventory realize how much of a PITA the organization/operation is, and go back to buying from their distributor/reseller/etc -The guys that are extremely successful become resellers/distributors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 "Caught up in the Air" 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Brian, I commend you on taking the initiative and (hopefully) proving my naysaying wrong However, waving my magic wand (or maybe I'm just full of @[EMAIL PROTECTED]), I predict the following 2 outcomes will occur: 1. Brian will not be able to get enough interest / coordination / payment for the buying club to succeed, and nothing will be bought 2. Brian will be smart enough to coordinate the buying club, but will realize that the coordination of the buying club is a lot of effort (effort that takes away time from running his WISP) -- at that point, he will either (a) stop doing the buying club, since he will need to address his day-to-day business needs / obligations / demands (b) continune doing the buying club, but w/ an initial moderate markup (to handle his administration costs) -- over time, if he continues to succeed, he will evolve into a full fledged reseller / distributor for WISPs providing various value-added services to varying levels of customers, and the middleman will return -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
What club are you talking about Charles? I predict you'll be asking Brian to participate in the next buy Charles. :-) Charles Wu wrote: Brian, I commend you on taking the initiative and (hopefully) proving my naysaying wrong However, waving my magic wand (or maybe I'm just full of @[EMAIL PROTECTED]), I predict the following 2 outcomes will occur: 1. Brian will not be able to get enough interest / coordination / payment for the buying club to succeed, and nothing will be bought 2. Brian will be smart enough to coordinate the buying club, but will realize that the coordination of the buying club is a lot of effort (effort that takes away time from running his WISP) -- at that point, he will either (a) stop doing the buying club, since he will need to address his day-to-day business needs / obligations / demands (b) continune doing the buying club, but w/ an initial moderate markup (to handle his administration costs) -- over time, if he continues to succeed, he will evolve into a full fledged reseller / distributor for WISPs providing various value-added services to varying levels of customers, and the middleman will return -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Yes, (joke) let's assure ourselves that all things are motivated by increasing one individual's bank account vs. the group's membership's benefits. Part of the reason I'm not participating in Part 15 et.al. is that the organizers of any membership benefit have to do so with the assumption that the GOAL of the effort is member benefits, not organizer benefits from organizing it. How much money have you made off WISPA John, Rich, Matt, Marlon, et.al? I know its a rethorical question - I know how much - none. If we're always looking at ways we can take the membership for a dollar ride we're not in the right groove. Isn't it enough that not only the organizer gets a benefit by getting his costs down, but that he's going to have lots of other participants potentially shaking his hand and thanking him for the effort? In this organization, I hope so. Charles Wu wrote: I'm getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea. Can anyone (principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk about this. ASAP! Call me a profit-hungering leech, but if I were you, I would try to set up the listserv myself Remember, the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of dollars that Bullit made off of WISPCON Part-15 all started from a simple Orinoco listserv (on a windows box too) -Charles P.S. better do it before that leech formerly known as Charles steals your idea wink --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com http://www.cwlab.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
That would be great. People are asking me about 5.2, 5.7, 2.4, as well as 900. I just want 900 for now. If we get a place to talk about it, someone else can coordinate the same with each product. A. Huppenthal wrote: Brian, I'll see if can do this shortly. -Alex Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I'm getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea. Can anyone (principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk about this. ASAP! Thanks Brian Charles Wu wrote: I know you don't support the idea of group buys. It's not that I don't support the concept, truthfully, I could care less whether you buy your gear from a distributor, reseller, or direct from the manufacturer I have just seen it implemented (rather unsuccessfully) many times by ISPs such as yourselves, and am trying to help you avoid making such a mistake The idea of a WISP buying group is nothing original, for the past few years, I've seen this idea come up at least once a month on some WISP listserv / forum / etc... However, if it was really that easy and simple -- why hasn't it been implemented yet on a consistent long term basis? Here's my observation -The guys that fail with their buying group end up getting their inventory liquidated on Ebay, go bankrupt and disappear -The guys that just barely sell their inventory realize how much of a PITA the organization/operation is, and go back to buying from their distributor/reseller/etc -The guys that are extremely successful become resellers/distributors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
You should be getting a notice of the mailing list creation. Will walk through the list manager steps and get you the listmanger's account information. Will be using rfarc.org as the base address - a local non-profit ham radio domain that has private list features. Let's see how it goes. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: All I know is I talked to a VAR and was assured I could get the prices I requested and have the process work the way I asked about. I'm just doing a little leg work to see what happens. When I compare what I can buy now, a $550 single pack. Because I can't even afford 25 pack. To the 100 pack prices of something like $260. It's a no brainer Charles. The $290 saving per radios covers any admin fees in savings by far. If you want Canopy radios, hit me off list. The only way I currently plan of profiting from this is the $290 savings on each radio. I just want 900 gear I can afford. Brian Charles Wu wrote: Brian, I commend you on taking the initiative and (hopefully) proving my naysaying wrong However, waving my magic wand (or maybe I'm just full of @[EMAIL PROTECTED]), I predict the following 2 outcomes will occur: 1. Brian will not be able to get enough interest / coordination / payment for the buying club to succeed, and nothing will be bought 2. Brian will be smart enough to coordinate the buying club, but will realize that the coordination of the buying club is a lot of effort (effort that takes away time from running his WISP) -- at that point, he will either (a) stop doing the buying club, since he will need to address his day-to-day business needs / obligations / demands (b) continune doing the buying club, but w/ an initial moderate markup (to handle his administration costs) -- over time, if he continues to succeed, he will evolve into a full fledged reseller / distributor for WISPs providing various value-added services to varying levels of customers, and the middleman will return -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
I like the recent post about monitors too. Frankly the BND stuff for $500 is good, but I'd use at least twice as much of it :-) if it were $250. ha! I sent you a note directly, I'll hang in there for a while tonight to get the listserver doing precisely what it should. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: That would be great. People are asking me about 5.2, 5.7, 2.4, as well as 900. I just want 900 for now. If we get a place to talk about it, someone else can coordinate the same with each product. A. Huppenthal wrote: Brian, I'll see if can do this shortly. -Alex Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I'm getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea. Can anyone (principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk about this. ASAP! Thanks Brian Charles Wu wrote: I know you don't support the idea of group buys. It's not that I don't support the concept, truthfully, I could care less whether you buy your gear from a distributor, reseller, or direct from the manufacturer I have just seen it implemented (rather unsuccessfully) many times by ISPs such as yourselves, and am trying to help you avoid making such a mistake The idea of a WISP buying group is nothing original, for the past few years, I've seen this idea come up at least once a month on some WISP listserv / forum / etc... However, if it was really that easy and simple -- why hasn't it been implemented yet on a consistent long term basis? Here's my observation -The guys that fail with their buying group end up getting their inventory liquidated on Ebay, go bankrupt and disappear -The guys that just barely sell their inventory realize how much of a PITA the organization/operation is, and go back to buying from their distributor/reseller/etc -The guys that are extremely successful become resellers/distributors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Your a good man. A. Huppenthal wrote: I like the recent post about monitors too. Frankly the BND stuff for $500 is good, but I'd use at least twice as much of it :-) if it were $250. ha! I sent you a note directly, I'll hang in there for a while tonight to get the listserver doing precisely what it should. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: That would be great. People are asking me about 5.2, 5.7, 2.4, as well as 900. I just want 900 for now. If we get a place to talk about it, someone else can coordinate the same with each product. A. Huppenthal wrote: Brian, I'll see if can do this shortly. -Alex Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I'm getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea. Can anyone (principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk about this. ASAP! Thanks Brian Charles Wu wrote: I know you don't support the idea of group buys. It's not that I don't support the concept, truthfully, I could care less whether you buy your gear from a distributor, reseller, or direct from the manufacturer I have just seen it implemented (rather unsuccessfully) many times by ISPs such as yourselves, and am trying to help you avoid making such a mistake The idea of a WISP buying group is nothing original, for the past few years, I've seen this idea come up at least once a month on some WISP listserv / forum / etc... However, if it was really that easy and simple -- why hasn't it been implemented yet on a consistent long term basis? Here's my observation -The guys that fail with their buying group end up getting their inventory liquidated on Ebay, go bankrupt and disappear -The guys that just barely sell their inventory realize how much of a PITA the organization/operation is, and go back to buying from their distributor/reseller/etc -The guys that are extremely successful become resellers/distributors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
The list server is running, Brian is working on the final setup / config. Sorry, its I thought I could do it in just an hour, but I've never set this software up before so it took 2 hours. I'm guessing the list will be up and running. Any suggestions on how we can confirm that the person attempting to signup for the group buy listserv is actually a principle member? I don't think we want a list of all the members distributed. I was thinking a simple script might allow an authorized person to query *if* a certain email address is a principle member or not.. hmmm... a puzzle.. I guess the person asking for the list membership could do so on the principle member list @ wispa. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Your a good man. A. Huppenthal wrote: I like the recent post about monitors too. Frankly the BND stuff for $500 is good, but I'd use at least twice as much of it :-) if it were $250. ha! I sent you a note directly, I'll hang in there for a while tonight to get the listserver doing precisely what it should. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: That would be great. People are asking me about 5.2, 5.7, 2.4, as well as 900. I just want 900 for now. If we get a place to talk about it, someone else can coordinate the same with each product. A. Huppenthal wrote: Brian, I'll see if can do this shortly. -Alex Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I'm getting a lot of interest off list on the group idea. Can anyone (principal member) set up a mail server for use to talk about this. ASAP! Thanks Brian Charles Wu wrote: I know you don't support the idea of group buys. It's not that I don't support the concept, truthfully, I could care less whether you buy your gear from a distributor, reseller, or direct from the manufacturer I have just seen it implemented (rather unsuccessfully) many times by ISPs such as yourselves, and am trying to help you avoid making such a mistake The idea of a WISP buying group is nothing original, for the past few years, I've seen this idea come up at least once a month on some WISP listserv / forum / etc... However, if it was really that easy and simple -- why hasn't it been implemented yet on a consistent long term basis? Here's my observation -The guys that fail with their buying group end up getting their inventory liquidated on Ebay, go bankrupt and disappear -The guys that just barely sell their inventory realize how much of a PITA the organization/operation is, and go back to buying from their distributor/reseller/etc -The guys that are extremely successful become resellers/distributors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
I'm not a supplier, nor do I want to be one to the list, nor do I want to research on behalf of the list. google: motorola canopy SM bulk 100 pack. I picked the first couple of hits that showed prices.. That's it. I don't do business with Double Radius, so I wouldn't know. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-50 $26,250 Double Radius has 25 pack for : $8,500.00 double to 50 pack and it 17k Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can avoid at all costs. The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius. HOLY CRAP! Unless I am reading something wrong... http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f A. Huppenthal wrote: I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'. However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - I'm all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your ass kicked by the telco and cable company - they have buying power and can get what you want and buy in 10s and 20s for 1/2 the price. Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity of our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is a part of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained in my business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs at the *first* WISPA meeting. In fact, I'd likely talk about it at ISPCON as well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really needs to pull together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a WISP), better pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules (FCC and others through a louder voice). I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-) Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. Buy 500 and get them at $444 instead. Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier. 432679 900 Mhz Access Point 9000AP $1,895 427612 900 Mhz Access Point AES 9001AP $2,395 498606 900 Mhz Access Point Connectorized (External antenna) 9000APC $1,855 487642 900 Mhz Access Point AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001APC $2,355 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-50 $26,250 452650 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-100 $47,500 459676 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-500 $222,500 460660 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-50 $24,250 467696 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-100 $43,500 483635 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-500 $202,500 433674 900 Mhz Subscriber Module 9000SM $725 430697 900 Mhz Subscriber ModuleAES 9001SM $975 499667 900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External antenna) 9000SMC $685 472614 900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001SMC $935 435698 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna AN900 $100 446693 Bulk Pack 50: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna BPAN900-50 $4,500 413627 Bulk Pack 100: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna BPAN900-100 $8,000 483655 900MHz Demo Kit - Connectorized TK10010 $3,000 495685 900MHz Access Point Cluster Kit - Connectorized TK10028 $30,000 Peter R. wrote: Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Would he give WISPA a good rate? Anyone interested could get quotes and maybe he could cut us a break? I want this trade association to get some members services so people have a reason to join. With added services comes members and money. With
Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Yes, I believe I was looking at all 900 products. If a 100 pack is 295, a 500 pack (buying group) might just be affordable for ma and pa WISP. A. Huppenthal wrote: check if you are comparing apples to apples. 900 Mhz units are much more expensive. Have fun, whatever you decide. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-50 $26,250 Double Radius has 25 pack for : $8,500.00 double to 50 pack and it 17k Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can avoid at all costs. The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius. HOLY CRAP! Unless I am reading something wrong... http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f A. Huppenthal wrote: I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'. However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - I'm all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your ass kicked by the telco and cable company - they have buying power and can get what you want and buy in 10s and 20s for 1/2 the price. Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity of our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is a part of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained in my business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs at the *first* WISPA meeting. In fact, I'd likely talk about it at ISPCON as well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really needs to pull together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a WISP), better pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules (FCC and others through a louder voice). I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-) Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. Buy 500 and get them at $444 instead. Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier. 432679 900 Mhz Access Point 9000AP $1,895 427612 900 Mhz Access Point AES 9001AP $2,395 498606 900 Mhz Access Point Connectorized (External antenna) 9000APC $1,855 487642 900 Mhz Access Point AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001APC $2,355 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-50 $26,250 452650 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-100 $47,500 459676 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-500 $222,500 460660 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-50 $24,250 467696 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-100 $43,500 483635 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-500 $202,500 433674 900 Mhz Subscriber Module 9000SM $725 430697 900 Mhz Subscriber ModuleAES 9001SM $975 499667 900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External antenna) 9000SMC $685 472614 900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001SMC $935 435698 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna AN900 $100 446693 Bulk Pack 50: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna BPAN900-50 $4,500 413627 Bulk Pack 100: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna BPAN900-100 $8,000 483655 900MHz Demo Kit - Connectorized TK10010 $3,000 495685 900MHz Access Point Cluster Kit -
RE: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
$100 for a 900 antenna? Yikes man were are buying? I buy 11 db yagis for around $40 , 15 db for $60 and 17db for $80 Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.767.7466 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of A. Huppenthal Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 6:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices we're talking 900 mhz, right? I don't use Moto 2.4 or 900 mhz stuff. never tried 2.4 and the 900 mhz didn't work for me - but it was a press. some 15 miles with NLOS so.. it could have been a path too challanging even for 900 mhz. $295 for a 900 mhz radios is very good. You still have to add $100 for a 900 mhz antenna. I've stayed away from 900 mhz mostly because of the learning curve and additional spectrum/antenna considerations. They are much bigger of course than 5.7 or 5.7 antennas/reflectors for the same gain, but that's obvious. Still $260 for 5.7 ghz radio with spectrum analyzer built-in, audio tone alignment, weights a few ounces, goes a few megabits / second, supports vlan tagging, dhcp / nat / shoulder-spectrums / has snmp / is supported by a network mass-firmware upgrade program (yes, its really crap, but at least its *there*). I could easily do remote upgrades of 30 units at a time without headache to move to new featured firmware - live, online, no crap-outs... Like I said, it isn't for everyone, that's for sure. It just was for me. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I've never done business with them either, but their 100 pack prices is 295 each for connectorized. Cheaper then some roll your own. A. Huppenthal wrote: I'm not a supplier, nor do I want to be one to the list, nor do I want to research on behalf of the list. google: motorola canopy SM bulk 100 pack. I picked the first couple of hits that showed prices.. That's it. I don't do business with Double Radius, so I wouldn't know. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber ModulesBP9000SM-50 $26,250 Double Radius has 25 pack for : $8,500.00 double to 50 pack and it 17k Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can avoid at all costs. The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius. HOLY CRAP! Unless I am reading something wrong... http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f A. Huppenthal wrote: I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'. However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - I'm all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your ass kicked by the telco and cable company - they have buying power and can get what you want and buy in 10s and 20s for 1/2 the price. Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity of our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is a part of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained in my business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs at the *first* WISPA meeting. In fact, I'd likely talk about it at ISPCON as well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really needs to pull together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a WISP), better pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules (FCC and others through a louder voice). I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-) Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. Buy 500 and get them at $444 instead. Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier. 432679 900 Mhz Access Point9000AP $1,895 427612 900 Mhz Access Point AES9001AP $2,395 498606 900 Mhz Access Point Connectorized (External antenna) 9000APC$1,855 487642 900 Mhz Access Point AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001APC $2,355 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber ModulesBP9000SM-50 $26,250 452650 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-100 $47,500 459676 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-500 $222,500 460660 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-50 $24,250 467696 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-100 $43,500 483635 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-500 $202,500 433674 900 Mhz Subscriber Module 9000SM $725 430697 900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES 9001SM $975 499667 900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External antenna) 9000SMC $685 472614 900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001SMC $935 435698 900 Mhz 60
Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
great prices! G.Villarini wrote: $100 for a 900 antenna? Yikes man were are buying? I buy 11 db yagis for around $40 , 15 db for $60 and 17db for $80 Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.767.7466 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of A. Huppenthal Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 6:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices we're talking 900 mhz, right? I don't use Moto 2.4 or 900 mhz stuff. never tried 2.4 and the 900 mhz didn't work for me - but it was a press. some 15 miles with NLOS so.. it could have been a path too challanging even for 900 mhz. $295 for a 900 mhz radios is very good. You still have to add $100 for a 900 mhz antenna. I've stayed away from 900 mhz mostly because of the learning curve and additional spectrum/antenna considerations. They are much bigger of course than 5.7 or 5.7 antennas/reflectors for the same gain, but that's obvious. Still $260 for 5.7 ghz radio with spectrum analyzer built-in, audio tone alignment, weights a few ounces, goes a few megabits / second, supports vlan tagging, dhcp / nat / shoulder-spectrums / has snmp / is supported by a network mass-firmware upgrade program (yes, its really crap, but at least its *there*). I could easily do remote upgrades of 30 units at a time without headache to move to new featured firmware - live, online, no crap-outs... Like I said, it isn't for everyone, that's for sure. It just was for me. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I've never done business with them either, but their 100 pack prices is 295 each for connectorized. Cheaper then some roll your own. A. Huppenthal wrote: I'm not a supplier, nor do I want to be one to the list, nor do I want to research on behalf of the list. google: motorola canopy SM bulk 100 pack. I picked the first couple of hits that showed prices.. That's it. I don't do business with Double Radius, so I wouldn't know. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber ModulesBP9000SM-50 $26,250 Double Radius has 25 pack for : $8,500.00 double to 50 pack and it 17k Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can avoid at all costs. The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius. HOLY CRAP! Unless I am reading something wrong... http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f A. Huppenthal wrote: I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'. However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - I'm all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your ass kicked by the telco and cable company - they have buying power and can get what you want and buy in 10s and 20s for 1/2 the price. Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity of our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is a part of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained in my business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs at the *first* WISPA meeting. In fact, I'd likely talk about it at ISPCON as well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really needs to pull together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a WISP), better pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules (FCC and others through a louder voice). I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-) Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. Buy 500 and get them at $444 instead. Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier. 432679 900 Mhz Access Point9000AP $1,895 427612 900 Mhz Access Point AES9001AP $2,395 498606 900 Mhz Access Point Connectorized (External antenna) 9000APC $1,855 487642 900 Mhz Access Point AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001APC $2,355 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-50 $26,250 452650 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-100 $47,500 459676 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-500 $222,500 460660 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-50 $24,250 467696 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-100 $43,500 483635 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-500 $202,500 433674 900 Mhz Subscriber Module 9000SM $725 430697 900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES 9001SM $975 499667 900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External antenna) 9000SMC $685 472614 900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001SMC $935 435698 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna AN900
Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Plus the piggy or cable and connectors. George G.Villarini wrote: $100 for a 900 antenna? Yikes man were are buying? I buy 11 db yagis for around $40 , 15 db for $60 and 17db for $80 Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.767.7466 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of A. Huppenthal Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 6:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices we're talking 900 mhz, right? I don't use Moto 2.4 or 900 mhz stuff. never tried 2.4 and the 900 mhz didn't work for me - but it was a press. some 15 miles with NLOS so.. it could have been a path too challanging even for 900 mhz. $295 for a 900 mhz radios is very good. You still have to add $100 for a 900 mhz antenna. I've stayed away from 900 mhz mostly because of the learning curve and additional spectrum/antenna considerations. They are much bigger of course than 5.7 or 5.7 antennas/reflectors for the same gain, but that's obvious. Still $260 for 5.7 ghz radio with spectrum analyzer built-in, audio tone alignment, weights a few ounces, goes a few megabits / second, supports vlan tagging, dhcp / nat / shoulder-spectrums / has snmp / is supported by a network mass-firmware upgrade program (yes, its really crap, but at least its *there*). I could easily do remote upgrades of 30 units at a time without headache to move to new featured firmware - live, online, no crap-outs... Like I said, it isn't for everyone, that's for sure. It just was for me. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I've never done business with them either, but their 100 pack prices is 295 each for connectorized. Cheaper then some roll your own. A. Huppenthal wrote: I'm not a supplier, nor do I want to be one to the list, nor do I want to research on behalf of the list. google: motorola canopy SM bulk 100 pack. I picked the first couple of hits that showed prices.. That's it. I don't do business with Double Radius, so I wouldn't know. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber ModulesBP9000SM-50 $26,250 Double Radius has 25 pack for : $8,500.00 double to 50 pack and it 17k Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can avoid at all costs. The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius. HOLY CRAP! Unless I am reading something wrong... http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f A. Huppenthal wrote: I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'. However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - I'm all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your ass kicked by the telco and cable company - they have buying power and can get what you want and buy in 10s and 20s for 1/2 the price. Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity of our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is a part of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained in my business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs at the *first* WISPA meeting. In fact, I'd likely talk about it at ISPCON as well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really needs to pull together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a WISP), better pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules (FCC and others through a louder voice). I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-) Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. Buy 500 and get them at $444 instead. Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier. 432679 900 Mhz Access Point9000AP $1,895 427612 900 Mhz Access Point AES9001AP $2,395 498606 900 Mhz Access Point Connectorized (External antenna) 9000APC $1,855 487642 900 Mhz Access Point AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001APC $2,355 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-50 $26,250 452650 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-100 $47,500 459676 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-500 $222,500 460660 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-50 $24,250 467696 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-100 $43,500 483635 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-500 $202,500 433674 900 Mhz Subscriber Module 9000SM $725 430697 900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES 9001SM $975 499667 900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External antenna) 9000SMC $685 472614 900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001SMC $935 435698 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna AN900 $100
RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Hey Charles ... long time no see ... any winog on 2006 ? Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.767.7466 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 10:26 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
And, the other issue is the purchase will be made in the group name, so how do you handle warranty issues? Travis Microserv Charles Wu wrote: snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
I have never done a group buy, but this is how I would approach it. First step. Principal Members only. You want a deal, fork over 200 some bucks and support the industry. Second step. Find 10 people who want ten units. (500 if possible, but prolly 100 pack to start) Third step. Go to moto website and look up resellers. fourth step. Call resellers and get quote. Say look here. I have a buying group. I want 100 SMs, charged to 10 credit cards and shipped to 10 addresses. Send me a quote to email Forward quote to next reseller and go from there. Whoever is cheaper wins. If they want the business of the buying group, they better figure out how to cut a deal. Am I acting like a know it all Charles? Would all the resellers say screw you if I approached like this? If all resellers say we can't do this.then I would (big trust here) run all cards through paypal and pay with one lump sum and re ship from here. Now add the 1.9% for paypal and add more for extra shippingdon't know what that would be, but it would be figured before hand. I just made all that up, but it seems like it would work. Only question is how warranty is handled. By MAC addy or by who bought the radio. Someone let me know if my approach is out of line. Never done this and might be reinventing the wheel (I hope it rolls) Brian A. Huppenthal wrote: Charles, I know you don't support the idea of group buys. Enough said. Fact is I've done group buys with high-end equipment before - it wasn't difficult at all. If you are comparing a public distributor to a closed membership buying club, you aren't comparing apples to apples. I sure as hell don't want to create a distributor organization. However, as our discussion continues, I might be willing to send Jim, George, Brian or whomever offers a group buy $2600 for 10 Canopy SMs if the buy is 100 units and we're all lined up. I don't need support, training, stocking, any of the services that distributors offer. Frankly, I don't need my distributor under cutting me to sell direct to customers. You have your pros and cons for going to distributors for *everything*. Certainly what's being discussed here isn't pretending to create a distributor that has *everything*.. Frankly I think the board with the exception of myself, uniformly doesn't support group buys. The buyers create the relatonship for the purpose of the buy, it ends when the product is delivered. Charles Wu wrote: snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Well, I'm not a Canopy user, but am close to making the leap. (would have done it long time ago if gear was a reasonable price) Whoever buys the gear. Group name or Joe Blow. Attention Canopy users how are warranty issues handled? If I buy gear on ebay can I send it into Moto for warranty? Or is it void because I didn't buy from authorized reseller? Brian Travis Johnson wrote: And, the other issue is the purchase will be made in the group name, so how do you handle warranty issues? Travis Microserv Charles Wu wrote: snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Charles, I fully second your post. Well said. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Hi, There are so many risks that _someone_ is going to have to assume. Example: If I say put me down for 20 units and here's my credit card. You place the order with the distributor, and I get my items. However, either the distributor will put each order in different names (thus, once the boss finds out it will be done), or they all go under a single name. Now, with my credit card being charged, but only a single invoice created for the big order, I can contact my credit card company and file a chargeback. There will be no invoice for the purchase, and nothing in my name. I just got 20 radios for free and the distributor just lost big money. This is only one example. There are 10 other risks to this project and someone will have to take them all... Why not just lease your CPE? Even doing 25 at a time, I think you can get 30 or 60 days before your first payment. Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the distrobuters and saying this. I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them all shipped to different addresses and charged to different accounts. What are you willing to do to accomidate us? I know there are a number of distobuters out there. Ones that do millions worth of gear all the way down to ones that operate WISPs and became resellers of the gear they use in order to get their volume up. If ten people can install ten a month. That is 1200 a year. If we look, I bet there is a reseller somewhere who wants to increase volume by 1200 a year. 5k a year wouldn't be stretching the imagination too far either. Am I dumb here guys? Why wouldn't this work? Tom DeReggi wrote: Charles, I fully second your post. Well said. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
I'll make some calls tomorrow and see what the distributors say. Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, There are so many risks that _someone_ is going to have to assume. Example: If I say put me down for 20 units and here's my credit card. You place the order with the distributor, and I get my items. However, either the distributor will put each order in different names (thus, once the boss finds out it will be done), or they all go under a single name. Now, with my credit card being charged, but only a single invoice created for the big order, I can contact my credit card company and file a chargeback. There will be no invoice for the purchase, and nothing in my name. I just got 20 radios for free and the distributor just lost big money. This is only one example. There are 10 other risks to this project and someone will have to take them all... Why not just lease your CPE? Even doing 25 at a time, I think you can get 30 or 60 days before your first payment. Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the distrobuters and saying this. I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them all shipped to different addresses and charged to different accounts. What are you willing to do to accomidate us? I know there are a number of distobuters out there. Ones that do millions worth of gear all the way down to ones that operate WISPs and became resellers of the gear they use in order to get their volume up. If ten people can install ten a month. That is 1200 a year. If we look, I bet there is a reseller somewhere who wants to increase volume by 1200 a year. 5k a year wouldn't be stretching the imagination too far either. Am I dumb here guys? Why wouldn't this work? Tom DeReggi wrote: Charles, I fully second your post. Well said. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
