Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
ust can't take a change that it wont be done right. You must make it your business to make sure its done. and lastly finances, no one will lend you money but your self and your mother. So earn your money to fund your business, its the only way you are going to get it. And its going to cost you money. The small dollar business only last for a little while, the time that you have a few customers and you can do everything your self, without a pay roll, when you are willing to make sacrifices, and its fun to do so. But employees don't work for free, nor do they or there wives share that vison of unconditional loyalty without the montey coming in for long hours worked, they don't have the same high standard as you, because its not their business its yours. When you get to the stage of employing all the rules change. And thats when businesses start to realize the difficulties in running a business. Staying a one man shop no longer is an option because support of your client base is already more than one person can handle. But because ou undersold your services, there isn;t enough money to pay the salaries to hire the people to support the clients. and you go out of business. The most important stage of your business is the business plan and that starts way before yuor first hire. And then once you start growing you learn that everything in your business plan was hog wash. The model of 100 new subs a month ends up being 2 new subs a month because there were sales barriers you weren't aware of. You learn the huge flock of customers you got on the first month, was because they were the few needy customers that were easy to access. But then you learn that you need to market to get custeomrs, you learn that the marketing ends up costing more than your equipment. And once again you go out of business. Your mission when you start out, before you make all your hires, is to prove every detail of your business plan valid. Design a formula that guarantees you can make a certain number of sales within a time period. You need constants in your model. If you can only consistently sell 5 subs a month, that s OK, its a constant, you can make guaranteed business plans with constants. Sorry for the rant, but the biggest mistake I see in this business is when the operator doesn't realize the importance of sales. If your name is not on the job description, its a problem. Tom DeReggiRapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message ----- From: Brian Rohrbacher To: WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 9:14 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? I am looking into getting two people to help. One "install guy" and one "sales guy", both on commission. Then I can be the guy who grows the network to keep up, do site surveys, tower work/deals, and paper work. Ok plan or no??Charles Wu wrote: Just a general word of advice...the biggest pitfall/doom of most startups isnot opportunity, but rather TOO MUCH opportunity... Watch cash flow closely, and don't bite off more than you can chew-Charles---WISPNOG Park City, UT http://www.wispnog.comAugust 15-17, 2005-Original Message-----From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] OnBehalf Of Tom DeReggiSent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 7:53 PM To: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?Thats a great way to start. Congradulations.Tom DeReggiRapidDSL & Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:20 AMSubject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? I just have to find someone to do installs. I have as many waiting to behooked up as I have hooked up. It's there for the taking, but I can't take it! The search for help has started.Tom DeReggi wrote: Most ISPs shared that plan. But it rarely works that way, when you wantto grow your business.Tom DeReggiRapidDSL & Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? I plan to be debt free in a year, so I hope to be ok. Everyone all paidoff and ready to roll.Matt Liotta wrote: I wouldn't worry about it since the way you did it put the investors atrisk more so than you. There is a better way to do it and before your company gets too successful you may want to visit a lawyer and get things cleaned up.-MattBrian Rohrbacher wrote: Just typed up something on the laptop that said, &q
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Title: Message
I can usually make money from day 1 on install. Install fee + 1st
month almost always covers the cost of my hardware cost. I own the
radio. Gas, sales, ADs, and other stuff is not factered. What kind of
ROI do you guys see? i know some people wait 6 months.
Brian
Tom DeReggi wrote:
Well if you hire a $30,000 a month
guy, you now have an expense. Divided by 240 working days that $125 a
day or $2500 a month.
But that doesn't include all the
other expenses such as taxes, management, time to do accounting related
to his employment, expenses assoicated to his time. Before you know it
you'll be paying for gas and vehicle repairs, etc. If you gave a free
install, targeted a 1 month cash flow positive business, @ $35 a month,
you'd need to do 3 installs a day just to pay the salary initially.
However, at the end of the month, you'd never need to do another
install to pay that salary. The problem is that rarely happens, he wont
get three done a day and you probably won't get a commitment to start 3
a day either. So the question is how much capitol do you have and how
many do you NEED to make a day. If you have $15,000 in capitol
allocated for tech salaries, then
you technically could survive with 1
install every other day, and in six months, your salary capitol would
be gone, but his salary would be covered by the monthly fees you were
receiving. But that would mean 100% of your profit went to the
installer. But that wouldn't happen, as you have to buy radios, pay
phone bills, you pay your self, etc. The best bet is to have a
business model that will allow you to charge an installtion fee that
covers the true installation fee. Those markets are hard to find. But
if you can its a winner. The lowest we go on installation charges is
$200, but we collect $500 from 95% of our subscribers. But our volume
is lower because of it.
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
-
Original Message -
From:
Brian Rohrbacher
To:
WISPA
General List
Sent:
Monday, August 29, 2005 1:17 PM
Subject:
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Ok, well, I trust this company. The have experience doing wireless
install, and warranty for 90 days. I posted the proposed agreement on
the paid list. They told me horror stories of 8 hr installs and and
the other guy not having the authentication ready so they could not
even do the install. I have an old retired friend who may work for
50-75 a day on call. I have another friend REALLY SMART and can CLIMB
LIKE A MONKEY who has lots of computer experience and even some
programming. Knows macs really well and would pick up wireless like a
piece of cake. He is looking for 30k and insurance. How many $35 a
month subs do I need to hire a 30k plus insurance kind of guy. What
needs to be on his resume? As you consider this, remember. I have NO
personal expenses. I live with my parents, no rent, house payment,
food, ect... I get no paycheck. The nearest thing I get for money is
gas in the truck and taking the girlfriend out every 2 weeks. My
income goes farther.
Brian
Tom DeReggi wrote:
Brian,
>By sales guy, I meant someone who will knock on doors
Thats a big difference. But I'd
call that a marketing expense.
As for $95 installer The
catch is wether you can find an installer that guarantees the work. If
he will go out to fix his mistakes for free and guarantee his work, you
will make out good for only $95. Make sure you require him to submit
digital pictures of finished work as a criteria to get paid, no matter
how good a friend. What many forget is the cost of management.
Management labor can cost more than the actually installtion labor. By
subcontracting out you are also subing out the management headache, so
for only $95 its golden. Subbing is wise when you are starting out,
because you'd have many days where employees would be on the clock with
nothing to do, if you employed. The problem is that employment laws
prevent you from holding a employee responsible for productivit and
results, so to employ, you are going to have to manage them to make
sure things get done on schedule. OTherwise the 2 hour install turns
into 2 days. Finding a good installer is anothger story. I'd never be
able to find it in my market for that low. Subcontract rates are closer
to $400-$500 an install for the quality we are installing. However, my
advise is opposite to what I actually do. We do not sub out, and
only employ. We decided quality and reputation was more important. But
I'm no where close to accomplishing the install goal of under $95. It
costs us half that just for gas and truck expenses.
One of the bigest mistakes you
could make is under estimate that cost. Because if you do, every
customer you instal
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Title: Message
Ok, well, I trust this company. The have experience doing wireless
install, and warranty for 90 days. I posted the proposed agreement on
the paid list. They told me horror stories of 8 hr installs and and
the other guy not having the authentication ready so they could not
even do the install. I have an old retired friend who may work for
50-75 a day on call. I have another friend REALLY SMART and can CLIMB
LIKE A MONKEY who has lots of computer experience and even some
programming. Knows macs really well and would pick up wireless like a
piece of cake. He is looking for 30k and insurance. How many $35 a
month subs do I need to hire a 30k plus insurance kind of guy. What
needs to be on his resume? As you consider this, remember. I have NO
personal expenses. I live with my parents, no rent, house payment,
food, ect... I get no paycheck. The nearest thing I get for money is
gas in the truck and taking the girlfriend out every 2 weeks. My
income goes farther.
Brian
Tom DeReggi wrote:
Brian,
>By sales guy, I meant someone who will knock on doors
Thats a big difference. But I'd call
that a marketing expense.
As for $95 installer The catch
is wether you can find an installer that guarantees the work. If he
will go out to fix his mistakes for free and guarantee his work, you
will make out good for only $95. Make sure you require him to submit
digital pictures of finished work as a criteria to get paid, no matter
how good a friend. What many forget is the cost of management.
Management labor can cost more than the actually installtion labor. By
subcontracting out you are also subing out the management headache, so
for only $95 its golden. Subbing is wise when you are starting out,
because you'd have many days where employees would be on the clock with
nothing to do, if you employed. The problem is that employment laws
prevent you from holding a employee responsible for productivit and
results, so to employ, you are going to have to manage them to make
sure things get done on schedule. OTherwise the 2 hour install turns
into 2 days. Finding a good installer is anothger story. I'd never be
able to find it in my market for that low. Subcontract rates are closer
to $400-$500 an install for the quality we are installing. However, my
advise is opposite to what I actually do. We do not sub out, and
only employ. We decided quality and reputation was more important. But
I'm no where close to accomplishing the install goal of under $95. It
costs us half that just for gas and truck expenses.
One of the bigest mistakes you could
make is under estimate that cost. Because if you do, every customer you
install will put you in a worse financial position. So estimate high,
and if you can prove to be efficient down the road, then you can always
tweak the business plan lower.
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
-
Original Message -
From:
Brian Rohrbacher
To:
WISPA
General List
Sent:
Friday, August 26, 2005 8:41 AM
Subject:
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
"In house" for a one man band??? That is what I am. I thought it
would be ok to sub out until I'm ready for the responsibility of
employees. It's easy to sub out a few a week, but to have an employee
work so few and such odd hours? Where do you find someone to do it?
Brian
Rick Smith wrote:
welcome to the real world.
That million will turn into 3 million soon, and your schedule will turn
into 4 weeks behind, and word of mouth will start spreading that you're
not responsive get out and install on your own.
This, coming from a guy that
subbed out intalls at $100 each until today. By reading these posts,
I'm now convinced that it's all coming back in-house.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 1:28 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Because I have not left the "office" my living room, in 3 days because
things keep coming my way. Computers, paperwork, a million calls. No
customer support issues, just a million things I can't seem to catch
up. And now I'm a few weeks behind on installs. I don't like being
behind.
Brian
JohnnyO wrote:
Brian - why pay out that $95.00 when YOU can go
do the install in 2 hours time ? Heck 3 installs = 1 new install paid
for Sorry - guess Im just cheap and work too much - I suppose we
all grow our business differently. I worked 2 full time jobs for the
1st 8 months we were in the WISP game on top of building the WISP..
JohnnyO
-Original Message-
Fro
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Thanks. Tom DeReggiRapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Rick Smith To: WISPA General List Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 6:21 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? Oh my, Tom, you hit my nail right on the head. This is an awesome wakeup call, if no one's read it, take time to read it all the way through and let it soak in. I'm actually going to PRINT this email and hang it on my wall as a reminder. I've been outsourcing installs at $100 each and it just soaked in that we really need to be doing the installs in-house. Read Tom's rambling very carefully ! Well written, Tom, thanks. R From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggiSent: Friday, August 26, 2005 12:18 AMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? No. You must do the sales. Trust that to someone else, and you will fail. It means that you may not be able to do the fun stuff like you thought you'd be doing, but its the reality of a successful business. UNtil you set the stage of how the sales process will go, and set the example of success in selling, it'll be hard to find a sales guy willing to work on commission or that will be worth a darn. I found that you can't run a WISP with only three people, although many have proven me wrong. It takes one to sell. It takes one to install. It takes one tech in the office to assist the installer with testing and router provisioning. ( a tech can't get to APs and routers, when the link isn't up yet. A lot of things will come up, like which sector do you connect to when its near both of them? You don't always know how to configure it until you are onsite. Then what happens whem the installer needs help, such as someone to hold the ladder for a steep pitched roof? Then whose gonna answer the phone when the insude tech goes onsite to help the installer? You need that 4th person! Then whose gonna do you book keeping? You learn that why should you be doing it, when you time is best spent selling? You surely aren't going to have the techs do your book keeping? When you start to go after the bigger clients, if there isn't someone to answer the phone for every sales request and tech support issue, they get scared and go with the higher staffed more professional competitor. At first you start by using your cell phone. But then you learn that you can never get a darn thing done when you are answering your cell phone the whole day. So you stop answering it while on sales meetings. Then the callers have outages, amnd have already signed up with the competitor by the time tyou call them back hours later because they thought you went out of business. So before you know it you need 6 people minimum. Then you look at your payroll that just jumped to $20,000 a month. Then it takes you a few months to get things togeather like marketing material. Then everyone is waiting on you. Then you have a burn rate. You learn that the $20,000 capitol that you had wasn't going to last the first month. Then you start getting subscribers, but theirs no money left to buy radios. By the time you get the radios three weeks later, the customers got tired of waiting and went with the competitor, so your staff has nothing to do, and you just burn through another $20,000 the next month. Etc. Thats the point most businesses fail. So my advise is... Start out with two people. And use your cell phone for all correspondance. Avoid every technical detail that the tech mentality is enticing you to get involved with, that will just kill your time, no matter how much its tempting you. Go sell today. Go like that as long as you can, until you have no other choice but to hire. Then hire ALL the people you need and play to win. IF you under hire, you will just spin your wheel's never getting anything done but managing everyone, and sales stop, but salaries don't, and you go out of business. Outsource every technical detail upfront, EXPECIALLY MAIL. Your only job can be sales and management. What will determine wether you will succeed is wether you can keep your time allocated more towards sales than management. Management duties will tend to monopolize your time, because they have to be done, and you will continue to loose money until you go out of business. You will learn there are four things you can't outsource in your early years, sales, management,managing your finances (accounting), and lending you money. Take every opportunity t oearn an extra couple buck on an install like hourly wages to set upo there PCs, and don't get suckered into giving that
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Title: Message
Brian,
>By sales guy, I meant someone who will knock on doors
Thats a big difference. But I'd call that a
marketing expense.
As for $95 installer The catch is wether
you can find an installer that guarantees the work. If he will go out to
fix his mistakes for free and guarantee his work, you will make out good for
only $95. Make sure you require him to submit digital pictures of finished
work as a criteria to get paid, no matter how good a friend. What many
forget is the cost of management. Management labor can cost more than the
actually installtion labor. By subcontracting out you are also subing out
the management headache, so for only $95 its golden. Subbing is
wise when you are starting out, because you'd have many days
where employees would be on the clock with nothing to do, if you
employed. The problem is that employment laws prevent you from
holding a employee responsible for productivit and results, so to employ,
you are going to have to manage them to make sure things get done on schedule.
OTherwise the 2 hour install turns into 2 days. Finding a good
installer is anothger story. I'd never be able to find it in my market for that
low. Subcontract rates are closer to $400-$500 an install for the quality
we are installing. However, my advise is opposite to what I actually do.
We do not sub out, and only employ. We decided quality and reputation
was more important. But I'm no where close to accomplishing the install goal of
under $95. It costs us half that just for gas and truck
expenses.
One of the bigest mistakes you could make is under
estimate that cost. Because if you do, every customer you install will put you
in a worse financial position. So estimate high, and if you can prove to be
efficient down the road, then you can always tweak the business plan
lower.
Tom DeReggiRapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
- Original Message -
From:
Brian
Rohrbacher
To: WISPA General List
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 8:41
AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an
investor?
"In house" for a one man band??? That is what I am.
I thought it would be ok to sub out until I'm ready for the responsibility of
employees. It's easy to sub out a few a week, but to have an employee
work so few and such odd hours? Where do you find someone to do
it?BrianRick Smith wrote:
welcome to the real world. That million
will turn into 3 million soon, and your schedule will turn into 4 weeks
behind, and word of mouth will start spreading that you're not
responsive get out and install on your
own.
This, coming from a guy that subbed out intalls at $100
each until today. By reading these posts, I'm now convinced that
it's all coming back in-house.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Brian RohrbacherSent: Friday, August 26, 2005
1:28 AMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA]
Taking on an investor?Because I have not left the
"office" my living room, in 3 days because things keep coming my way.
Computers, paperwork, a million calls. No customer support issues,
just a million things I can't seem to catch up. And now I'm a few
weeks behind on installs. I don't like being
behind.BrianJohnnyO wrote:
Brian - why pay out that $95.00 when YOU can go do the install in 2
hours time ? Heck 3 installs = 1 new install paid for Sorry - guess
Im just cheap and work too much - I suppose we all grow our business
differently. I worked 2 full time jobs for the 1st 8 months we were in the
WISP game on top of building the WISP..
JohnnyO
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Brian RohrbacherSent: Thursday, August
25, 2005 11:57 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject:
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?Let me
clarify. By sales guy, I meant someone who will knock on doors and
say "here, this is available in the area, call for details" hand them a
door hanger and leave. I pay my subs a free month for
refferals. I'd give the "door hanger guy" the same, $35 per "sale"
unless they were too good at it :) Then they would call, and
I'd make the "sale". The "install guy" is a company who I
trust. They will do installs for $95 a head. I have some
more details (4 line paragraph) on my ROI if anyone wants to comment,
hit me off list and I'll forward my ROI sheet to you for
comment.Thanks,BrianTom DeReggi wrote:
No. You must do the sale
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
I use a both approach. I may not be the fast growing WISP, or the biggest (just over 30 subs) but we are making headway.
As JohnnyO, I am a one man band, with a little help from wife and son. I do the net admin, site surveys, and similar things. Wife does most of the accounting type functions. For installs, I have an electrical contractor that I use when climbing is involved as he has certified climbers. I have used him for some of the more complicated installs as well. When possible, I do them myself. Much less expensive.
Scott Reed
Owner
NewWays
Wireless Networking
Network Design, Installation and Administration
www.nwwnet.net
-- Original Message
---
From: Brian Rohrbacher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: WISPA General List
Sent: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:41:23 -0400
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
>
"In house" for a one man band??? That is what I am. I thought
it
would be ok to sub out until I'm ready for the responsibility
of
employees. It's easy to sub out a few a week, but to have an
employee
work so few and such odd hours? Where do you find someone to do it?
>
>
Brian
>
>
Rick Smith
wrote:
> welcome to the real
world.
That million will turn into 3 million soon, and your schedule will
turn
into 4 weeks behind, and word of mouth will start spreading that
you're
not responsiveget out and install on your
own.
>
> This, coming from a guy
that
subbed out intalls at $100 each until today. By reading these
posts,
I'm now convinced that it's all coming back
in-house.
>
>
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
>
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 1:28 AM
>
To: WISPA General List
>
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
>
>
Because I have not left the "office" my living room, in 3 days
because
things keep coming my way. Computers, paperwork, a million calls.
No
customer support issues, just a million things I can't seem to
catch
up. And now I'm a few weeks behind on installs. I don't like
being
behind.
>
>
Brian
>
>
JohnnyO
wrote:
> Brian - why pay out that $95.00 when YOU can
go
do the install in 2 hours time ? Heck 3 installs = 1 new install
paid
for Sorry - guess Im just cheap and work too much - I suppose
we
all grow our business differently. I worked 2 full time jobs for
the
1st 8 months we were in the WISP game on top of building the
WISP..
>
> JohnnyO
> -Original Message-
>
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
>
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:57 PM
>
To: WISPA General List
>
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
>
>
Let me clarify. By sales guy, I meant someone who will knock on
doors
and say "here, this is available in the area, call for details"
hand
them a door hanger and leave. I pay my subs a free month
for
refferals. I'd give the "door hanger guy" the same, $35 per
"sale"
unless they were too good at it :) Then they would call, and I'd
make
the "sale". The "install guy" is a company who I trust. They will
do
installs for $95 a head. I have some more details (4 line
paragraph)
on my ROI if anyone wants to comment, hit me off list and I'll
forward
my ROI sheet to you for comment.
>
>
Thanks,
>
Brian
>
>
Tom DeReggi
wrote:
> No. You must do the
sales.
Trust that to someone else, and you will fail. It means that you
may
not be able to do the fun stuff like you thought you'd be doing,
but
its the reality of a successful business. UNtil you set the stage
of
how the sales process will go, and set the example of success
in
selling, it'll be hard to find a sales guy willing to work
on
commission or that will be worth a darn. I found that you can't run
a
WISP with only three people, although many have proven me wrong.
It
takes one to sell. It takes one to install. It takes one tech in
the
office to assist the installer with testing and router provisioning.
(
a tech can't get to APs and routers, when the link isn't up yet. A
lot
of things will come up, like which sector do you connect to when
its
near both of them? You don't always know how to configure it until
you
are onsite. Then what happens whem the installer needs help, such
as
someone to hold the ladder for a steep pitched roof? Then whose
gonna
answer the phone when the insude tech goes onsite to help
the
installer? You need that 4th person! Then whose gonna do you
book
keeping? You learn that why should you be doing it, when you time
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Title: Message
"In house" for a one man band??? That is what I am. I thought it
would be ok to sub out until I'm ready for the responsibility of
employees. It's easy to sub out a few a week, but to have an employee
work so few and such odd hours? Where do you find someone to do it?
Brian
Rick Smith wrote:
welcome to the real world.
That million will turn into 3 million soon, and your schedule will turn
into 4 weeks behind, and word of mouth will start spreading that you're
not responsive get out and install on your own.
This, coming from a guy that
subbed out intalls at $100 each until today. By reading these posts,
I'm now convinced that it's all coming back in-house.
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 1:28 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Because I have not left the "office" my living room, in 3 days because
things keep coming my way. Computers, paperwork, a million calls. No
customer support issues, just a million things I can't seem to catch
up. And now I'm a few weeks behind on installs. I don't like being
behind.
Brian
JohnnyO wrote:
Brian - why pay out that $95.00 when YOU can go
do the install in 2 hours time ? Heck 3 installs = 1 new install paid
for Sorry - guess Im just cheap and work too much - I suppose we
all grow our business differently. I worked 2 full time jobs for the
1st 8 months we were in the WISP game on top of building the WISP..
JohnnyO
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:57 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Let me clarify. By sales guy, I meant someone who will knock on doors
and say "here, this is available in the area, call for details" hand
them a door hanger and leave. I pay my subs a free month for
refferals. I'd give the "door hanger guy" the same, $35 per "sale"
unless they were too good at it :) Then they would call, and I'd make
the "sale". The "install guy" is a company who I trust. They will do
installs for $95 a head. I have some more details (4 line paragraph)
on my ROI if anyone wants to comment, hit me off list and I'll forward
my ROI sheet to you for comment.
Thanks,
Brian
Tom DeReggi wrote:
No. You must do the sales.
Trust that to someone else, and you will fail. It means that you may
not be able to do the fun stuff like you thought you'd be doing, but
its the reality of a successful business. UNtil you set the stage of
how the sales process will go, and set the example of success in
selling, it'll be hard to find a sales guy willing to work on
commission or that will be worth a darn. I found that you can't run a
WISP with only three people, although many have proven me wrong. It
takes one to sell. It takes one to install. It takes one tech in the
office to assist the installer with testing and router provisioning. (
a tech can't get to APs and routers, when the link isn't up yet. A lot
of things will come up, like which sector do you connect to when its
near both of them? You don't always know how to configure it until you
are onsite. Then what happens whem the installer needs help, such as
someone to hold the ladder for a steep pitched roof? Then whose gonna
answer the phone when the insude tech goes onsite to help the
installer? You need that 4th person! Then whose gonna do you book
keeping? You learn that why should you be doing it, when you time is
best spent selling? You surely aren't going to have the techs do your
book keeping? When you start to go after the bigger clients, if there
isn't someone to answer the phone for every sales request and tech
support issue, they get scared and go with the higher staffed more
professional competitor. At first you start by using your cell phone.
But then you learn that you can never get a darn thing done when you
are answering your cell phone the whole day. So you stop answering it
while on sales meetings. Then the callers have outages, amnd have
already signed up with the competitor by the time tyou call them back
hours later because they thought you went out of business. So before
you know it you need 6 people minimum. Then you look at your payroll
that just jumped to $20,000 a month. Then it takes you a few months to
get things togeather like marketing material. Then everyone is waiting
on you. Then you have a burn rate. You learn that the $20,000 capitol
that you had wasn't going to last the first month. Then you start
getting subscribers, but theirs no money left
RE: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Title: Message welcome to the real world. That million will turn into 3 million soon, and your schedule will turn into 4 weeks behind, and word of mouth will start spreading that you're not responsive get out and install on your own. This, coming from a guy that subbed out intalls at $100 each until today. By reading these posts, I'm now convinced that it's all coming back in-house. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian RohrbacherSent: Friday, August 26, 2005 1:28 AMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? Because I have not left the "office" my living room, in 3 days because things keep coming my way. Computers, paperwork, a million calls. No customer support issues, just a million things I can't seem to catch up. And now I'm a few weeks behind on installs. I don't like being behind.BrianJohnnyO wrote: Brian - why pay out that $95.00 when YOU can go do the install in 2 hours time ? Heck 3 installs = 1 new install paid for Sorry - guess Im just cheap and work too much - I suppose we all grow our business differently. I worked 2 full time jobs for the 1st 8 months we were in the WISP game on top of building the WISP.. JohnnyO -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Brian RohrbacherSent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:57 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?Let me clarify. By sales guy, I meant someone who will knock on doors and say "here, this is available in the area, call for details" hand them a door hanger and leave. I pay my subs a free month for refferals. I'd give the "door hanger guy" the same, $35 per "sale" unless they were too good at it :) Then they would call, and I'd make the "sale". The "install guy" is a company who I trust. They will do installs for $95 a head. I have some more details (4 line paragraph) on my ROI if anyone wants to comment, hit me off list and I'll forward my ROI sheet to you for comment.Thanks,BrianTom DeReggi wrote: No. You must do the sales. Trust that to someone else, and you will fail. It means that you may not be able to do the fun stuff like you thought you'd be doing, but its the reality of a successful business. UNtil you set the stage of how the sales process will go, and set the example of success in selling, it'll be hard to find a sales guy willing to work on commission or that will be worth a darn. I found that you can't run a WISP with only three people, although many have proven me wrong. It takes one to sell. It takes one to install. It takes one tech in the office to assist the installer with testing and router provisioning. ( a tech can't get to APs and routers, when the link isn't up yet. A lot of things will come up, like which sector do you connect to when its near both of them? You don't always know how to configure it until you are onsite. Then what happens whem the installer needs help, such as someone to hold the ladder for a steep pitched roof? Then whose gonna answer the phone when the insude tech goes onsite to help the installer? You need that 4th person! Then whose gonna do you book keeping? You learn that why should you be doing it, when you time is best spent selling? You surely aren't going to have the techs do your book keeping? When you start to go after the bigger clients, if there isn't someone to answer the phone for every sales request and tech support issue, they get scared and go with the higher staffed more professional competitor. At first you start by using your cell phone. But then you learn that you can never get a darn thing done when you are answering your cell phone the whole day. So you stop answering it while on sales meetings. Then the callers have outages, amnd have already signed up with the competitor by the time tyou call them back hours later because they thought you went out of business. So before you know it you need 6 people minimum. Then you look at your payroll that just jumped to $20,000 a month. Then it takes you a few months to get things togeather like marketing material. Then everyone is waiting on you. Then you have a burn rate. You learn that the $20,000 capitol that you had wasn't going to last the first month. Then you start getting subscribers, but theirs no money left to buy radios. By the time you get the radios three weeks later, the customers got tired of waiting and went with the competitor, so your st
RE: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Oh my, Tom, you hit my nail right on the head. This is an awesome wakeup call, if no one's read it, take time to read it all the way through and let it soak in. I'm actually going to PRINT this email and hang it on my wall as a reminder. I've been outsourcing installs at $100 each and it just soaked in that we really need to be doing the installs in-house. Read Tom's rambling very carefully ! Well written, Tom, thanks. R From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggiSent: Friday, August 26, 2005 12:18 AMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? No. You must do the sales. Trust that to someone else, and you will fail. It means that you may not be able to do the fun stuff like you thought you'd be doing, but its the reality of a successful business. UNtil you set the stage of how the sales process will go, and set the example of success in selling, it'll be hard to find a sales guy willing to work on commission or that will be worth a darn. I found that you can't run a WISP with only three people, although many have proven me wrong. It takes one to sell. It takes one to install. It takes one tech in the office to assist the installer with testing and router provisioning. ( a tech can't get to APs and routers, when the link isn't up yet. A lot of things will come up, like which sector do you connect to when its near both of them? You don't always know how to configure it until you are onsite. Then what happens whem the installer needs help, such as someone to hold the ladder for a steep pitched roof? Then whose gonna answer the phone when the insude tech goes onsite to help the installer? You need that 4th person! Then whose gonna do you book keeping? You learn that why should you be doing it, when you time is best spent selling? You surely aren't going to have the techs do your book keeping? When you start to go after the bigger clients, if there isn't someone to answer the phone for every sales request and tech support issue, they get scared and go with the higher staffed more professional competitor. At first you start by using your cell phone. But then you learn that you can never get a darn thing done when you are answering your cell phone the whole day. So you stop answering it while on sales meetings. Then the callers have outages, amnd have already signed up with the competitor by the time tyou call them back hours later because they thought you went out of business. So before you know it you need 6 people minimum. Then you look at your payroll that just jumped to $20,000 a month. Then it takes you a few months to get things togeather like marketing material. Then everyone is waiting on you. Then you have a burn rate. You learn that the $20,000 capitol that you had wasn't going to last the first month. Then you start getting subscribers, but theirs no money left to buy radios. By the time you get the radios three weeks later, the customers got tired of waiting and went with the competitor, so your staff has nothing to do, and you just burn through another $20,000 the next month. Etc. Thats the point most businesses fail. So my advise is... Start out with two people. And use your cell phone for all correspondance. Avoid every technical detail that the tech mentality is enticing you to get involved with, that will just kill your time, no matter how much its tempting you. Go sell today. Go like that as long as you can, until you have no other choice but to hire. Then hire ALL the people you need and play to win. IF you under hire, you will just spin your wheel's never getting anything done but managing everyone, and sales stop, but salaries don't, and you go out of business. Outsource every technical detail upfront, EXPECIALLY MAIL. Your only job can be sales and management. What will determine wether you will succeed is wether you can keep your time allocated more towards sales than management. Management duties will tend to monopolize your time, because they have to be done, and you will continue to loose money until you go out of business. You will learn there are four things you can't outsource in your early years, sales, management,managing your finances (accounting), and lending you money. Take every opportunity t oearn an extra couple buck on an install like hourly wages to set upo there PCs, and don't get suckered into giving that away for free, you will need every one of thosse dollars to carry you on. Ifyou leave management to someone else, they will turn your employees against you, and they will make the wrong decissions, and you will have to pick up the peices later, hopefully before its not to late. If you don't do your finances, you won't know you are in trouble financially until its to late, you need to be one with your budget and
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Title: Message Because I have not left the "office" my living room, in 3 days because things keep coming my way. Computers, paperwork, a million calls. No customer support issues, just a million things I can't seem to catch up. And now I'm a few weeks behind on installs. I don't like being behind. Brian JohnnyO wrote: Brian - why pay out that $95.00 when YOU can go do the install in 2 hours time ? Heck 3 installs = 1 new install paid for Sorry - guess Im just cheap and work too much - I suppose we all grow our business differently. I worked 2 full time jobs for the 1st 8 months we were in the WISP game on top of building the WISP.. JohnnyO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:57 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? Let me clarify. By sales guy, I meant someone who will knock on doors and say "here, this is available in the area, call for details" hand them a door hanger and leave. I pay my subs a free month for refferals. I'd give the "door hanger guy" the same, $35 per "sale" unless they were too good at it :) Then they would call, and I'd make the "sale". The "install guy" is a company who I trust. They will do installs for $95 a head. I have some more details (4 line paragraph) on my ROI if anyone wants to comment, hit me off list and I'll forward my ROI sheet to you for comment. Thanks, Brian Tom DeReggi wrote: No. You must do the sales. Trust that to someone else, and you will fail. It means that you may not be able to do the fun stuff like you thought you'd be doing, but its the reality of a successful business. UNtil you set the stage of how the sales process will go, and set the example of success in selling, it'll be hard to find a sales guy willing to work on commission or that will be worth a darn. I found that you can't run a WISP with only three people, although many have proven me wrong. It takes one to sell. It takes one to install. It takes one tech in the office to assist the installer with testing and router provisioning. ( a tech can't get to APs and routers, when the link isn't up yet. A lot of things will come up, like which sector do you connect to when its near both of them? You don't always know how to configure it until you are onsite. Then what happens whem the installer needs help, such as someone to hold the ladder for a steep pitched roof? Then whose gonna answer the phone when the insude tech goes onsite to help the installer? You need that 4th person! Then whose gonna do you book keeping? You learn that why should you be doing it, when you time is best spent selling? You surely aren't going to have the techs do your book keeping? When you start to go after the bigger clients, if there isn't someone to answer the phone for every sales request and tech support issue, they get scared and go with the higher staffed more professional competitor. At first you start by using your cell phone. But then you learn that you can never get a darn thing done when you are answering your cell phone the whole day. So you stop answering it while on sales meetings. Then the callers have outages, amnd have already signed up with the competitor by the time tyou call them back hours later because they thought you went out of business. So before you know it you need 6 people minimum. Then you look at your payroll that just jumped to $20,000 a month. Then it takes you a few months to get things togeather like marketing material. Then everyone is waiting on you. Then you have a burn rate. You learn that the $20,000 capitol that you had wasn't going to last the first month. Then you start getting subscribers, but theirs no money left to buy radios. By the time you get the radios three weeks later, the customers got tired of waiting and went with the competitor, so your staff has nothing to do, and you just burn through another $20,000 the next month. Etc. Thats the point most businesses fail. So my advise is... Start out with two people. And use your cell phone for all correspondance. Avoid every technical detail that the tech mentality is enticing you to get involved with, that will just kill your time, no matter how much its tempting you. Go sell today. Go like that as long as you can, until you have no other choice but to hire. Then hire ALL the people you need and play to win. IF you under hire, you will just spin your wheel's never getting anything done but managing everyone, and sales stop, but salaries don't, and you go out of business. Outsource every technical detail upfront, EXPECIALLY MAIL. Your only job can be sales and management. What wil
RE: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Title: Message Brian - why pay out that $95.00 when YOU can go do the install in 2 hours time ? Heck 3 installs = 1 new install paid for Sorry - guess Im just cheap and work too much - I suppose we all grow our business differently. I worked 2 full time jobs for the 1st 8 months we were in the WISP game on top of building the WISP.. JohnnyO -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian RohrbacherSent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:57 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?Let me clarify. By sales guy, I meant someone who will knock on doors and say "here, this is available in the area, call for details" hand them a door hanger and leave. I pay my subs a free month for refferals. I'd give the "door hanger guy" the same, $35 per "sale" unless they were too good at it :) Then they would call, and I'd make the "sale". The "install guy" is a company who I trust. They will do installs for $95 a head. I have some more details (4 line paragraph) on my ROI if anyone wants to comment, hit me off list and I'll forward my ROI sheet to you for comment.Thanks,BrianTom DeReggi wrote: No. You must do the sales. Trust that to someone else, and you will fail. It means that you may not be able to do the fun stuff like you thought you'd be doing, but its the reality of a successful business. UNtil you set the stage of how the sales process will go, and set the example of success in selling, it'll be hard to find a sales guy willing to work on commission or that will be worth a darn. I found that you can't run a WISP with only three people, although many have proven me wrong. It takes one to sell. It takes one to install. It takes one tech in the office to assist the installer with testing and router provisioning. ( a tech can't get to APs and routers, when the link isn't up yet. A lot of things will come up, like which sector do you connect to when its near both of them? You don't always know how to configure it until you are onsite. Then what happens whem the installer needs help, such as someone to hold the ladder for a steep pitched roof? Then whose gonna answer the phone when the insude tech goes onsite to help the installer? You need that 4th person! Then whose gonna do you book keeping? You learn that why should you be doing it, when you time is best spent selling? You surely aren't going to have the techs do your book keeping? When you start to go after the bigger clients, if there isn't someone to answer the phone for every sales request and tech support issue, they get scared and go with the higher staffed more professional competitor. At first you start by using your cell phone. But then you learn that you can never get a darn thing done when you are answering your cell phone the whole day. So you stop answering it while on sales meetings. Then the callers have outages, amnd have already signed up with the competitor by the time tyou call them back hours later because they thought you went out of business. So before you know it you need 6 people minimum. Then you look at your payroll that just jumped to $20,000 a month. Then it takes you a few months to get things togeather like marketing material. Then everyone is waiting on you. Then you have a burn rate. You learn that the $20,000 capitol that you had wasn't going to last the first month. Then you start getting subscribers, but theirs no money left to buy radios. By the time you get the radios three weeks later, the customers got tired of waiting and went with the competitor, so your staff has nothing to do, and you just burn through another $20,000 the next month. Etc. Thats the point most businesses fail. So my advise is... Start out with two people. And use your cell phone for all correspondance. Avoid every technical detail that the tech mentality is enticing you to get involved with, that will just kill your time, no matter how much its tempting you. Go sell today. Go like that as long as you can, until you have no other choice but to hire. Then hire ALL the people you need and play to win. IF you under hire, you will just spin your wheel's never getting anything done but managing everyone, and sales stop, but salaries don't, and you go out of business. Outsource every technical detail upfront, EXPECIALLY MAIL. Your only job can be sales and management. What will determine wether you will succeed is wether you can keep your time allocated more towards sales than management. Management duties will tend to mo
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
nd daily cash intake goals, and there is no way you can do it unless you are intimate with your accounting on a daily basis. You must do the sales because it the #1 most important thing in your business, and at all costs, it is the one thing that MUST be done for you t osurvice, you just can't take a change that it wont be done right. You must make it your business to make sure its done. and lastly finances, no one will lend you money but your self and your mother. So earn your money to fund your business, its the only way you are going to get it. And its going to cost you money. The small dollar business only last for a little while, the time that you have a few customers and you can do everything your self, without a pay roll, when you are willing to make sacrifices, and its fun to do so. But employees don't work for free, nor do they or there wives share that vison of unconditional loyalty without the montey coming in for long hours worked, they don't have the same high standard as you, because its not their business its yours. When you get to the stage of employing all the rules change. And thats when businesses start to realize the difficulties in running a business. Staying a one man shop no longer is an option because support of your client base is already more than one person can handle. But because ou undersold your services, there isn;t enough money to pay the salaries to hire the people to support the clients. and you go out of business. The most important stage of your business is the business plan and that starts way before yuor first hire. And then once you start growing you learn that everything in your business plan was hog wash. The model of 100 new subs a month ends up being 2 new subs a month because there were sales barriers you weren't aware of. You learn the huge flock of customers you got on the first month, was because they were the few needy customers that were easy to access. But then you learn that you need to market to get custeomrs, you learn that the marketing ends up costing more than your equipment. And once again you go out of business. Your mission when you start out, before you make all your hires, is to prove every detail of your business plan valid. Design a formula that guarantees you can make a certain number of sales within a time period. You need constants in your model. If you can only consistently sell 5 subs a month, that s OK, its a constant, you can make guaranteed business plans with constants. Sorry for the rant, but the biggest mistake I see in this business is when the operator doesn't realize the importance of sales. If your name is not on the job description, its a problem. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ----- Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher To: WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 9:14 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? I am looking into getting two people to help. One "install guy" and one "sales guy", both on commission. Then I can be the guy who grows the network to keep up, do site surveys, tower work/deals, and paper work. Ok plan or no?? Charles Wu wrote: Just a general word of advice...the biggest pitfall/doom of most startups is not opportunity, but rather TOO MUCH opportunity... Watch cash flow closely, and don't bite off more than you can chew -Charles --- WISPNOG Park City, UT http://www.wispnog.com August 15-17, 2005 -----Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 7:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? Thats a great way to start. Congradulations. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? I just have to find someone to do installs. I have as many waiting to be hooked up as I have hooked up. It's there for the taking, but I can't take it! The search for help has started. Tom DeReggi wrote: Most ISPs shared that plan. But it rarely works that way, when you want to grow your business. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? I plan to be debt free in a year, so I hope to be ok. Everyone all paid off and ready to roll. Ma
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
There is a problem with that. :) I am very young and don't know a lot. SO.I subscribe to about 5 lists, and read every post everyday in the BBR WISP forums. If not for that, I would not know what I know today. Remember. I have very little expenses (living with parents) I pay gas, backhaul, insurance, network upkeep, cell phone, and payments on loans. The way I see it, I can sacrifice a little income (sub it out) so I have time to research. I've never used mikrotik, never graphed or monitored bandwidth, and know very little about the Star OS I use (Demarc Tech APs). It won't be long and I'll have 150 people on my 6 meg by 600k DSL line. I feel that my time needs to be spent learning how to do what I do (run a WISP), rather than being the "grunt man". I have been a WISP "grunt man" for 2.5 years, and the WISP "everything man" for 7 months now (crooked partner gone <--just my opinion) If I go along doing everything, I will wake up one day and realize, I'm not ready for what I have. My plan is for me to get the network ready for 100, 200, 300 subs while the sales and the install guys actually get me there. I have a lot of learning to do to be able to keep 100-300 people online smoothly. I don't by any means know everything about installing and sales, but I know my weak spot is tech knowledge (and spelling). I might as well pay people to do the stuff I know, and go learn the stuff I don't know. It's kind of like paying to learn, I never went to college so this is my college. I pay them to be "grunts" as I am online (reading and researching) and at home learning to run things like mikrotik and mrtg graphs. I'll also be doing the paperwork, all tower climbs, tower deals, tech support, and computer service (I get a 3-5 a week dropped off here from a $20 weekly ad) Yes, I work on these as I am online. Trust me, if I knew everything, I'd be out grunting, but there is too many years of technical knowledge I lack to be out grunting. I have got to learn or I will get stuck when I grow to a certain point. I'd be like, "shoot, I don't know how to run this dual wan router and I'm out of bandwidth" A dual wan router would do, but I'd really like to have mikrotik down by that point so I can "do it right". Is my way of thinking in line with reality? I'm not afraid to ask for help. So, what I am thinking is that if I don't hire people, I'll have to pretty much stop work when I reach a certain point to learn all the stuff to get on to the next step. Ok, I wrote up a little response/question 4 hrs ago about my ROI and subscriber acquisition cost, but I don't really want it archived forever. So if your willing to take a look and send your thoughts my way, hit me up off list. It is only about 1/3 as long as this. It's pretty short. Lonnie Nunweiler wrote: Don't take this the wrong way BUT ---> if you spent less time on the Internet you would soon get those people connected. Been there, done that. Lonnie On 8/25/05, Brian Rohrbacher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I just have to find someone to do installs. I have as many waiting to be hooked up as I have hooked up. It's there for the taking, but I can't take it! The search for help has started. Tom DeReggi wrote: Most ISPs shared that plan. But it rarely works that way, when you want to grow your business. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? I plan to be debt free in a year, so I hope to be ok. Everyone all paid off and ready to roll. Matt Liotta wrote: I wouldn't worry about it since the way you did it put the investors at risk more so than you. There is a better way to do it and before your company gets too successful you may want to visit a lawyer and get things cleaned up. -Matt Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Just typed up something on the laptop that said, "I owe you "this" much", and we both signed it. Not fancy, but a little better than an oral agreement. I won't miss a payment and will pay them back if it takes closing the WISP and working 3 jobs. Missing payments is not an option. Only if I'm laid up in the hospital. Personal guaranteed? Well, I told them I will pay it back... I know the agreement leaves a lot open, but I trust these 4 people. Anyway, so they are not investors. Lastly, lets just leave me be about this :) I'd rather not try to defend a million questions about what if this and what
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
ile, the time that you have a few customers and you can do everything your self, without a pay roll, when you are willing to make sacrifices, and its fun to do so. But employees don't work for free, nor do they or there wives share that vison of unconditional loyalty without the montey coming in for long hours worked, they don't have the same high standard as you, because its not their business its yours. When you get to the stage of employing all the rules change. And thats when businesses start to realize the difficulties in running a business. Staying a one man shop no longer is an option because support of your client base is already more than one person can handle. But because ou undersold your services, there isn;t enough money to pay the salaries to hire the people to support the clients. and you go out of business. The most important stage of your business is the business plan and that starts way before yuor first hire. And then once you start growing you learn that everything in your business plan was hog wash. The model of 100 new subs a month ends up being 2 new subs a month because there were sales barriers you weren't aware of. You learn the huge flock of customers you got on the first month, was because they were the few needy customers that were easy to access. But then you learn that you need to market to get custeomrs, you learn that the marketing ends up costing more than your equipment. And once again you go out of business. Your mission when you start out, before you make all your hires, is to prove every detail of your business plan valid. Design a formula that guarantees you can make a certain number of sales within a time period. You need constants in your model. If you can only consistently sell 5 subs a month, that s OK, its a constant, you can make guaranteed business plans with constants. Sorry for the rant, but the biggest mistake I see in this business is when the operator doesn't realize the importance of sales. If your name is not on the job description, its a problem. Tom DeReggiRapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher To: WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 9:14 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? I am looking into getting two people to help. One "install guy" and one "sales guy", both on commission. Then I can be the guy who grows the network to keep up, do site surveys, tower work/deals, and paper work. Ok plan or no??Charles Wu wrote: Just a general word of advice...the biggest pitfall/doom of most startups is not opportunity, but rather TOO MUCH opportunity... Watch cash flow closely, and don't bite off more than you can chew -Charles --- WISPNOG Park City, UT http://www.wispnog.com August 15-17, 2005 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 7:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? Thats a great way to start. Congradulations. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? I just have to find someone to do installs. I have as many waiting to be hooked up as I have hooked up. It's there for the taking, but I can't take it! The search for help has started. Tom DeReggi wrote: Most ISPs shared that plan. But it rarely works that way, when you want to grow your business. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ----- Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? I plan to be debt free in a year, so I hope to be ok. Everyone all paid off and ready to roll. Matt Liotta wrote: I wouldn't worry about it since the way you did it put the investors at risk more so than you. There is a better way to do it and before your company gets too successful you may want to visit a lawyer and get things cleaned up. -Matt Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Just typed up something on the laptop that said, "I owe you "this" much", and we both signed it. Not fancy, but a little better than an oral agreement. I won't miss a payment and will pay them back if it takes closing the WISP and working 3 jobs. Missing payments is not an option. Only if I'm laid up
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Don't take this the wrong way BUT ---> if you spent less time on the Internet you would soon get those people connected. Been there, done that. Lonnie On 8/25/05, Brian Rohrbacher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I just have to find someone to do installs. I have as many waiting to > be hooked up as I have hooked up. It's there for the taking, but I > can't take it! The search for help has started. > > Tom DeReggi wrote: > > > > > Most ISPs shared that plan. But it rarely works that way, when you > > want to grow your business. > > > > > > Tom DeReggi > > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > > > > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > > - Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "WISPA General List" > > Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:33 AM > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? > > > > > >> I plan to be debt free in a year, so I hope to be ok. Everyone all > >> paid off and ready to roll. > >> > >> Matt Liotta wrote: > >> > >>> I wouldn't worry about it since the way you did it put the investors > >>> at risk more so than you. There is a better way to do it and before > >>> your company gets too successful you may want to visit a lawyer and > >>> get things cleaned up. > >>> > >>> -Matt > >>> > >>> Brian Rohrbacher wrote: > >>> > >>>> Just typed up something on the laptop that said, "I owe you "this" > >>>> much", and we both signed it. Not fancy, but a little better than > >>>> an oral agreement. I won't miss a payment and will pay them back > >>>> if it takes closing the WISP and working 3 jobs. Missing payments > >>>> is not an option. Only if I'm laid up in the hospital. Personal > >>>> guaranteed? Well, I told them I will pay it back... I know the > >>>> agreement leaves a lot open, but I trust these 4 people. Anyway, > >>>> so they are not investors. Lastly, lets just leave me be about > >>>> this :) I'd rather not try to defend a million questions about > >>>> what if this and what if that. It is what I did and it is done. > >>>> > >>>> Charles Wu wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> that would be a loan > >>>>> what type of collateral do they have? or what happens if you miss > >>>>> a payment? > >>>>> have you personally guaranteed the money? > >>>>> -Charles > >>>>> > >>>>> --- > >>>>> WISPNOG Park City, UT > >>>>> http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/> > >>>>> August 15-17, 2005 > >>>>> > >>>>> -Original Message- > >>>>> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian > >>>>> Rohrbacher > >>>>> *Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 10:20 PM > >>>>> *To:* WISPA General List > >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? > >>>>> > >>>>> Well, I guess we would call them loans as I have all control. > >>>>> Correct me if I am wrong. They gave me money at a fixed rate. > >>>>> Loans or investments? > >>>>> > >>>>> Charles Wu wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> well...in determing their "dumbness" (assuming you're willing to > >>>>>> divulge this information) - what sort of investment / equity > >>>>>> share / control do your investors have? > >>>>>> I mean...assuming it's you and the other 4, does > >>>>>> everyone have > >>>>>> an equal share? (which is a different story all together) or > >>>>>> does 1 single person have a majority share and the other 4 are > >>>>>> minority partners > >>>>>> -Charles > >>>>>> --- > >>>>>> WISPNOG Park City, UT > >>>>>> http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/> > >>>>>> August 15-17, 2005 > >>
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Wise words for sure. There is more than any one can do by oneself out there. The opportunities can run you broke if you chase them all. Scriv Charles Wu wrote: Just a general word of advice...the biggest pitfall/doom of most startups is not opportunity, but rather TOO MUCH opportunity... Watch cash flow closely, and don't bite off more than you can chew -Charles --- WISPNOG Park City, UT http://www.wispnog.com August 15-17, 2005 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 7:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? Thats a great way to start. Congradulations. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? I just have to find someone to do installs. I have as many waiting to be hooked up as I have hooked up. It's there for the taking, but I can't take it! The search for help has started. Tom DeReggi wrote: Most ISPs shared that plan. But it rarely works that way, when you want to grow your business. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? I plan to be debt free in a year, so I hope to be ok. Everyone all paid off and ready to roll. Matt Liotta wrote: I wouldn't worry about it since the way you did it put the investors at risk more so than you. There is a better way to do it and before your company gets too successful you may want to visit a lawyer and get things cleaned up. -Matt Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Just typed up something on the laptop that said, "I owe you "this" much", and we both signed it. Not fancy, but a little better than an oral agreement. I won't miss a payment and will pay them back if it takes closing the WISP and working 3 jobs. Missing payments is not an option. Only if I'm laid up in the hospital. Personal guaranteed? Well, I told them I will pay it back... I know the agreement leaves a lot open, but I trust these 4 people. Anyway, so they are not investors. Lastly, lets just leave me be about this :) I'd rather not try to defend a million questions about what if this and what if that. It is what I did and it is done. Charles Wu wrote: that would be a loan what type of collateral do they have? or what happens if you miss a payment? have you personally guaranteed the money? -Charles --- WISPNOG Park City, UT http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/> August 15-17, 2005 -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian Rohrbacher *Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 10:20 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? Well, I guess we would call them loans as I have all control. Correct me if I am wrong. They gave me money at a fixed rate. Loans or investments? Charles Wu wrote: well...in determing their "dumbness" (assuming you're willing to divulge this information) - what sort of investment / equity share / control do your investors have? I mean...assuming it's you and the other 4, does everyone have an equal share? (which is a different story all together) or does 1 single person have a majority share and the other 4 are minority partners -Charles --- WISPNOG Park City, UT http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/> August 15-17, 2005 -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian Rohrbacher *Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 8:05 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? Well, I guess I found four "dumb" people that got me started. All my start up funds came from 4 people. All four were subs from a previous WISP I owned, (before my partner took everything over and left me out in the cold) they all said, "I want you providing service, not the "other guy". So here I am. 7 months in and going strong. Oh, almost forgot, like my lawyer has me say..all that is just my opinion. ;-) I think "dumb" inves
RE: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Title: Message Do your own installs for the 1st 100 or so - I would not outsource "installation" nor "sales" help till then. Just my opinion but we've learned a lot here. We were able to purchase an extra (40) CPEs in our 1st 100 customers b/c we didn't have the installer expense. JohnnyO -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian RohrbacherSent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 8:15 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?I am looking into getting two people to help. One "install guy" and one "sales guy", both on commission. Then I can be the guy who grows the network to keep up, do site surveys, tower work/deals, and paper work. Ok plan or no??Charles Wu wrote: Just a general word of advice...the biggest pitfall/doom of most startups is not opportunity, but rather TOO MUCH opportunity... Watch cash flow closely, and don't bite off more than you can chew -Charles --- WISPNOG Park City, UT http://www.wispnog.com August 15-17, 2005 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 7:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? Thats a great way to start. Congradulations. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? I just have to find someone to do installs. I have as many waiting to be hooked up as I have hooked up. It's there for the taking, but I can't take it! The search for help has started. Tom DeReggi wrote: Most ISPs shared that plan. But it rarely works that way, when you want to grow your business. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? I plan to be debt free in a year, so I hope to be ok. Everyone all paid off and ready to roll. Matt Liotta wrote: I wouldn't worry about it since the way you did it put the investors at risk more so than you. There is a better way to do it and before your company gets too successful you may want to visit a lawyer and get things cleaned up. -Matt Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Just typed up something on the laptop that said, "I owe you "this" much", and we both signed it. Not fancy, but a little better than an oral agreement. I won't miss a payment and will pay them back if it takes closing the WISP and working 3 jobs. Missing payments is not an option. Only if I'm laid up in the hospital. Personal guaranteed? Well, I told them I will pay it back... I know the agreement leaves a lot open, but I trust these 4 people. Anyway, so they are not investors. Lastly, lets just leave me be about this :) I'd rather not try to defend a million questions about what if this and what if that. It is what I did and it is done. Charles Wu wrote: that would be a loan what type of collateral do they have? or what happens if you miss a payment? have you personally guaranteed the money? -Charles --- WISPNOG Park City, UT http://www.wispnog.com August 15-17, 2005 -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] *On Behalf Of *Brian Rohrbacher *Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 10:20 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? Well, I guess we would call them loans as I have all control. Correct me if I am wrong. They gave me money at a fixed rate. Loans or investments? Charles Wu wrote: well...in determing their "dumbness" (assuming you're willing to divulge this information) - what sort of investment / equity share / control do your investors have? I mean...assuming it's you and the other 4, does everyone have an equal share? (which is a different story all together) or does 1 single person have a majority share and the other 4 are minority partners -Charles --- WISPNOG Park City, UT http://www.wispnog.com August 15-17, 2005 -Original Message-
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
I am looking into getting two people to help. One "install guy" and one "sales guy", both on commission. Then I can be the guy who grows the network to keep up, do site surveys, tower work/deals, and paper work. Ok plan or no?? Charles Wu wrote: Just a general word of advice...the biggest pitfall/doom of most startups is not opportunity, but rather TOO MUCH opportunity... Watch cash flow closely, and don't bite off more than you can chew -Charles --- WISPNOG Park City, UT http://www.wispnog.com August 15-17, 2005 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 7:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? Thats a great way to start. Congradulations. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? I just have to find someone to do installs. I have as many waiting to be hooked up as I have hooked up. It's there for the taking, but I can't take it! The search for help has started. Tom DeReggi wrote: Most ISPs shared that plan. But it rarely works that way, when you want to grow your business. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? I plan to be debt free in a year, so I hope to be ok. Everyone all paid off and ready to roll. Matt Liotta wrote: I wouldn't worry about it since the way you did it put the investors at risk more so than you. There is a better way to do it and before your company gets too successful you may want to visit a lawyer and get things cleaned up. -Matt Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Just typed up something on the laptop that said, "I owe you "this" much", and we both signed it. Not fancy, but a little better than an oral agreement. I won't miss a payment and will pay them back if it takes closing the WISP and working 3 jobs. Missing payments is not an option. Only if I'm laid up in the hospital. Personal guaranteed? Well, I told them I will pay it back... I know the agreement leaves a lot open, but I trust these 4 people. Anyway, so they are not investors. Lastly, lets just leave me be about this :) I'd rather not try to defend a million questions about what if this and what if that. It is what I did and it is done. Charles Wu wrote: that would be a loan what type of collateral do they have? or what happens if you miss a payment? have you personally guaranteed the money? -Charles --- WISPNOG Park City, UT http://www.wispnog.com August 15-17, 2005 -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] *On Behalf Of *Brian Rohrbacher *Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 10:20 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? Well, I guess we would call them loans as I have all control. Correct me if I am wrong. They gave me money at a fixed rate. Loans or investments? Charles Wu wrote: well...in determing their "dumbness" (assuming you're willing to divulge this information) - what sort of investment / equity share / control do your investors have? I mean...assuming it's you and the other 4, does everyone have an equal share? (which is a different story all together) or does 1 single person have a majority share and the other 4 are minority partners -Charles --- WISPNOG Park City, UT http://www.wispnog.com August 15-17, 2005 -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] *On Behalf Of *Brian Rohrbacher *Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 8:05 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? Well, I guess I found four "dumb" people that got me started. All my start up funds came from 4 people. All four were subs from
RE: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Just a general word of advice...the biggest pitfall/doom of most startups is not opportunity, but rather TOO MUCH opportunity... Watch cash flow closely, and don't bite off more than you can chew -Charles --- WISPNOG Park City, UT http://www.wispnog.com August 15-17, 2005 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 7:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? Thats a great way to start. Congradulations. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? >I just have to find someone to do installs. I have as many waiting to >be >hooked up as I have hooked up. It's there for the taking, but I can't take >it! The search for help has started. > > Tom DeReggi wrote: > >> >> Most ISPs shared that plan. But it rarely works that way, when you >> want >> to grow your business. >> >> >> Tom DeReggi >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >> >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >> >> - Original Message ----- From: "Brian Rohrbacher" >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:33 AM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? >> >> >>> I plan to be debt free in a year, so I hope to be ok. Everyone all >>> paid >>> off and ready to roll. >>> >>> Matt Liotta wrote: >>> >>>> I wouldn't worry about it since the way you did it put the >>>> investors at >>>> risk more so than you. There is a better way to do it and before your >>>> company gets too successful you may want to visit a lawyer and get >>>> things cleaned up. >>>> >>>> -Matt >>>> >>>> Brian Rohrbacher wrote: >>>> >>>>> Just typed up something on the laptop that said, "I owe you "this" >>>>> much", and we both signed it. Not fancy, but a little better than an >>>>> oral agreement. I won't miss a payment and will pay them back if it >>>>> takes closing the WISP and working 3 jobs. Missing payments is not an >>>>> option. Only if I'm laid up in the hospital. Personal guaranteed? >>>>> Well, I told them I will pay it back... I know the agreement leaves a >>>>> lot open, but I trust these 4 people. Anyway, so they are not >>>>> investors. Lastly, lets just leave me be about this :) I'd rather >>>>> not try to defend a million questions about what if this and what if >>>>> that. It is what I did and it is done. >>>>> >>>>> Charles Wu wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> that would be a loan >>>>>> what type of collateral do they have? or what happens if you miss >>>>>> a >>>>>> payment? >>>>>> have you personally guaranteed the money? >>>>>> -Charles >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> WISPNOG Park City, UT >>>>>> http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/> >>>>>> August 15-17, 2005 >>>>>> >>>>>> -Original Message- >>>>>> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian >>>>>> Rohrbacher >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 10:20 PM >>>>>> *To:* WISPA General List >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? >>>>>> >>>>>> Well, I guess we would call them loans as I have all control. >>>>>> Correct me if I am wrong. They gave me money at a fixed rate. Loans >>>>>> or investments? >>>>>> >>>>>> Charles Wu wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> well...in determing their "dumbness" (assuming you're willing to >>>>>>> divulge this information) - what sort of investment / equity >>>>>>> share / control do your investors have? >>>>>>> I mean...assuming it's
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Thats a great way to start. Congradulations.
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
- Original Message -
From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List"
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
I just have to find someone to do installs. I have as many waiting to be
hooked up as I have hooked up. It's there for the taking, but I can't take
it! The search for help has started.
Tom DeReggi wrote:
Most ISPs shared that plan. But it rarely works that way, when you want
to grow your business.
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
- Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List"
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
I plan to be debt free in a year, so I hope to be ok. Everyone all paid
off and ready to roll.
Matt Liotta wrote:
I wouldn't worry about it since the way you did it put the investors at
risk more so than you. There is a better way to do it and before your
company gets too successful you may want to visit a lawyer and get
things cleaned up.
-Matt
Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
Just typed up something on the laptop that said, "I owe you "this"
much", and we both signed it. Not fancy, but a little better than an
oral agreement. I won't miss a payment and will pay them back if it
takes closing the WISP and working 3 jobs. Missing payments is not an
option. Only if I'm laid up in the hospital. Personal guaranteed?
Well, I told them I will pay it back... I know the agreement leaves a
lot open, but I trust these 4 people. Anyway, so they are not
investors. Lastly, lets just leave me be about this :) I'd rather
not try to defend a million questions about what if this and what if
that. It is what I did and it is done.
Charles Wu wrote:
that would be a loan
what type of collateral do they have? or what happens if you miss a
payment?
have you personally guaranteed the money?
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian
Rohrbacher
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 10:20 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Well, I guess we would call them loans as I have all control.
Correct me if I am wrong. They gave me money at a fixed rate. Loans
or investments?
Charles Wu wrote:
well...in determing their "dumbness" (assuming you're willing to
divulge this information) - what sort of investment / equity
share / control do your investors have?
I mean...assuming it's you and the other 4, does everyone
have
an equal share? (which is a different story all together) or
does 1 single person have a majority share and the other 4 are
minority partners
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian
Rohrbacher
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 8:05 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Well, I guess I found four "dumb" people that got me
started. All my start up funds came from 4 people. All
four were subs from a previous WISP I owned, (before my
partner took everything over and left me out in the cold)
they all said, "I want you providing service, not the "other
guy". So here I am. 7 months in and going strong. Oh,
almost forgot, like my lawyer has me say..all that is
just my opinion. ;-) I think "dumb" investors
are great!
Charles Wu wrote:
sure
a passive minority equity position stake in a
privately
held company is worthless, as legally, the person with the
majority stake can make 100% of the decisions (in terms of
purchasing, spending, cash distribution, etc)
think about it, if it was your money, would you be
willing
to just "invest it" into a company when the majority
partner can do whatever he/she wants to and you have no
recourse?
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17, 2005
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor----------->Who does installs??
The "dish guy" is one of my good friends, but not real good with
heights. I have talked to a company who will do them at $100 a pop.
Fair? I provide (pre configured) Antennas, tripods, masts, site survey,
location to mount, ect. He provides tools, caulk, screws, ect (the
little stuff) I'll dig up the terms he sent me and post it to the
PRINCIPAL MEMBERS LIST so all you can help me review it.
John Scrivner wrote:
Consider contracting through the local Dish/DirecTV installers. It can
save you a bunch of headaches and will cost less than employees in the
end.
Scriv
Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
I just have to find someone to do installs. I have as many waiting
to be hooked up as I have hooked up. It's there for the taking, but
I can't take it! The search for help has started.
Tom DeReggi wrote:
Most ISPs shared that plan. But it rarely works that way, when you
want to grow your business.
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
- Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List"
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
I plan to be debt free in a year, so I hope to be ok. Everyone all
paid off and ready to roll.
Matt Liotta wrote:
I wouldn't worry about it since the way you did it put the
investors at risk more so than you. There is a better way to do it
and before your company gets too successful you may want to visit
a lawyer and get things cleaned up.
-Matt
Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
Just typed up something on the laptop that said, "I owe you
"this" much", and we both signed it. Not fancy, but a little
better than an oral agreement. I won't miss a payment and will
pay them back if it takes closing the WISP and working 3 jobs.
Missing payments is not an option. Only if I'm laid up in the
hospital. Personal guaranteed? Well, I told them I will pay it
back... I know the agreement leaves a lot open, but I trust
these 4 people. Anyway, so they are not investors. Lastly, lets
just leave me be about this :) I'd rather not try to defend a
million questions about what if this and what if that. It is what
I did and it is done.
Charles Wu wrote:
that would be a loan
what type of collateral do they have? or what happens if you
miss a payment?
have you personally guaranteed the money?
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian
Rohrbacher
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 10:20 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Well, I guess we would call them loans as I have all
control. Correct me if I am wrong. They gave me money at a
fixed rate. Loans or investments?
Charles Wu wrote:
well...in determing their "dumbness" (assuming you're
willing to
divulge this information) - what sort of investment / equity
share / control do your investors have?
I mean...assuming it's you and the other 4, does
everyone have
an equal share? (which is a different story all together) or
does 1 single person have a majority share and the other 4 are
minority partners
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian
Rohrbacher
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 8:05 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Well, I guess I found four "dumb" people that got me
started. All my start up funds came from 4 people. All
four were subs from a previous WISP I owned, (before my
partner took everything over and left me out in the
cold) they all said, "I want you providing service, not the "other
guy". So here I am. 7 months in and going strong. Oh,
almost forgot, like my lawyer has me say..all that is
just my opinion. ;-) I think "dumb"
investors
are great!
Charles Wu wrote:
sure
a passive minority equity position stake in a
privately
held company is worthless, as legally, the person with
the
majority stake can make 100% of the decisions (in
terms of
purchasing, spending, cash distribution, etc)
think about it, if it was your money, would
you be willing
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Consider contracting through the local Dish/DirecTV installers. It can
save you a bunch of headaches and will cost less than employees in the end.
Scriv
Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
I just have to find someone to do installs. I have as many waiting to
be hooked up as I have hooked up. It's there for the taking, but I
can't take it! The search for help has started.
Tom DeReggi wrote:
Most ISPs shared that plan. But it rarely works that way, when you
want to grow your business.
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
- Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List"
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
I plan to be debt free in a year, so I hope to be ok. Everyone all
paid off and ready to roll.
Matt Liotta wrote:
I wouldn't worry about it since the way you did it put the
investors at risk more so than you. There is a better way to do it
and before your company gets too successful you may want to visit a
lawyer and get things cleaned up.
-Matt
Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
Just typed up something on the laptop that said, "I owe you "this"
much", and we both signed it. Not fancy, but a little better than
an oral agreement. I won't miss a payment and will pay them back
if it takes closing the WISP and working 3 jobs. Missing payments
is not an option. Only if I'm laid up in the hospital. Personal
guaranteed? Well, I told them I will pay it back... I know the
agreement leaves a lot open, but I trust these 4 people. Anyway,
so they are not investors. Lastly, lets just leave me be about
this :) I'd rather not try to defend a million questions about
what if this and what if that. It is what I did and it is done.
Charles Wu wrote:
that would be a loan
what type of collateral do they have? or what happens if you miss
a payment?
have you personally guaranteed the money?
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian
Rohrbacher
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 10:20 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Well, I guess we would call them loans as I have all control.
Correct me if I am wrong. They gave me money at a fixed rate.
Loans or investments?
Charles Wu wrote:
well...in determing their "dumbness" (assuming you're
willing to
divulge this information) - what sort of investment / equity
share / control do your investors have?
I mean...assuming it's you and the other 4, does
everyone have
an equal share? (which is a different story all together) or
does 1 single person have a majority share and the other 4 are
minority partners
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian
Rohrbacher
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 8:05 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Well, I guess I found four "dumb" people that got me
started. All my start up funds came from 4 people. All
four were subs from a previous WISP I owned, (before my
partner took everything over and left me out in the
cold) they all said, "I want you providing service, not the "other
guy". So here I am. 7 months in and going strong. Oh,
almost forgot, like my lawyer has me say..all that is
just my opinion. ;-) I think "dumb"
investors
are great!
Charles Wu wrote:
sure
a passive minority equity position stake in a
privately
held company is worthless, as legally, the person with the
majority stake can make 100% of the decisions (in terms of
purchasing, spending, cash distribution, etc)
think about it, if it was your money, would
you be willing
to just "invest it" into a company when the majority
partner can do whatever he/she wants to and you have no
recourse?
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of
*Dylan Oliver
Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
ppphhht I was already married for a year when I could legally drink! Still stuck with the ol hag too! hehehehehe Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher To: Barry at Mutual Data ; WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 3:24 PM Subject: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? It's easy when your 21, unmarried and live with your parents. Muuuhahaaahahaha I have a leg up on all of you. =-O BrianBarry at Mutual Data wrote: Hello Brian, WHAT DEBT FREE You can't do that That will disrupt the time space continuum thingee. Didn't you know ISP's are supposed to not make money? Get a grip man :-) Barry Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 10:33:19 AM, you wrote: BR> I plan to be debt free in a year, so I hope to be ok. Everyone all paid BR> off and ready to roll. BR> Matt Liotta wrote: I wouldn't worry about it since the way you did it put the investors at risk more so than you. There is a better way to do it and before your company gets too successful you may want to visit a lawyer and get things cleaned up. -Matt Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Just typed up something on the laptop that said, "I owe you "this" much", and we both signed it. Not fancy, but a little better than an oral agreement. I won't miss a payment and will pay them back if it takes closing the WISP and working 3 jobs. Missing payments is not an option. Only if I'm laid up in the hospital. Personal guaranteed? Well, I told them I will pay it back... I know the agreement leaves a lot open, but I trust these 4 people. Anyway, so they are not investors. Lastly, lets just leave me be about this :) I'd rather not try to defend a million questions about what if this and what if that. It is what I did and it is done. Charles Wu wrote: that would be a loan what type of collateral do they have? or what happens if you miss a payment? have you personally guaranteed the money? -Charles --- WISPNOG Park City, UT http://www.wispnog.com August 15-17, 2005 -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] *On Behalf Of *Brian Rohrbacher *Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 10:20 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? Well, I guess we would call them loans as I have all control. Correct me if I am wrong. They gave me money at a fixed rate. Loans or investments? Charles Wu wrote: well...in determing their "dumbness" (assuming you're willing to divulge this information) - what sort of investment / equity share / control do your investors have? I mean...assuming it's you and the other 4, does everyone have an equal share? (which is a different story all together) or does 1 single person have a majority share and the other 4 are minority partners -Charles --- WISPNOG Park City, UT http://www.wispnog.com August 15-17, 2005 -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] *On Behalf Of *Brian Rohrbacher *Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 8:05 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? Well, I guess I found four "dumb" people that got me started. All my start up funds came from 4 people. All four were subs from a previous WISP I owned, (before my partner took everything over and left me out in the cold) they all said, "I want you providing service, not the "other guy". So here I am. 7 months in and going strong. Oh, almost forgot, like my lawyer has me say..all that is just my opinion. ;-) I think "dumb" investors are great! Charles Wu wrote: sure a passive minority equity position stake in a privately held company is worthless, as legally, the person with the majority stake can make 100% of the decisions (in terms of purchasing, spending, cash distribution, etc) think about it, if it was your money, would you be willing to just "invest it" into a company when the majority partner can do whatever he/she wants to and you have no
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
I just have to find someone to do installs. I have as many waiting to
be hooked up as I have hooked up. It's there for the taking, but I
can't take it! The search for help has started.
Tom DeReggi wrote:
Most ISPs shared that plan. But it rarely works that way, when you
want to grow your business.
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
- Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List"
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
I plan to be debt free in a year, so I hope to be ok. Everyone all
paid off and ready to roll.
Matt Liotta wrote:
I wouldn't worry about it since the way you did it put the investors
at risk more so than you. There is a better way to do it and before
your company gets too successful you may want to visit a lawyer and
get things cleaned up.
-Matt
Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
Just typed up something on the laptop that said, "I owe you "this"
much", and we both signed it. Not fancy, but a little better than
an oral agreement. I won't miss a payment and will pay them back
if it takes closing the WISP and working 3 jobs. Missing payments
is not an option. Only if I'm laid up in the hospital. Personal
guaranteed? Well, I told them I will pay it back... I know the
agreement leaves a lot open, but I trust these 4 people. Anyway,
so they are not investors. Lastly, lets just leave me be about
this :) I'd rather not try to defend a million questions about
what if this and what if that. It is what I did and it is done.
Charles Wu wrote:
that would be a loan
what type of collateral do they have? or what happens if you miss
a payment?
have you personally guaranteed the money?
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian
Rohrbacher
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 10:20 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Well, I guess we would call them loans as I have all control.
Correct me if I am wrong. They gave me money at a fixed rate.
Loans or investments?
Charles Wu wrote:
well...in determing their "dumbness" (assuming you're willing to
divulge this information) - what sort of investment / equity
share / control do your investors have?
I mean...assuming it's you and the other 4, does
everyone have
an equal share? (which is a different story all together) or
does 1 single person have a majority share and the other 4 are
minority partners
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian
Rohrbacher
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 8:05 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Well, I guess I found four "dumb" people that got me
started. All my start up funds came from 4 people. All
four were subs from a previous WISP I owned, (before my
partner took everything over and left me out in the cold)
they all said, "I want you providing service, not the "other
guy". So here I am. 7 months in and going strong. Oh,
almost forgot, like my lawyer has me say..all that is
just my opinion. ;-) I think "dumb" investors
are great!
Charles Wu wrote:
sure
a passive minority equity position stake in a
privately
held company is worthless, as legally, the person with the
majority stake can make 100% of the decisions (in terms of
purchasing, spending, cash distribution, etc)
think about it, if it was your money, would you
be willing
to just "invest it" into a company when the majority
partner can do whatever he/she wants to and you have no
recourse?
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of
*Dylan Oliver
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 4:10 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Charles,
wo
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Most ISPs shared that plan. But it rarely works that way, when you want to
grow your business.
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
- Original Message -
From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List"
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
I plan to be debt free in a year, so I hope to be ok. Everyone all paid
off and ready to roll.
Matt Liotta wrote:
I wouldn't worry about it since the way you did it put the investors at
risk more so than you. There is a better way to do it and before your
company gets too successful you may want to visit a lawyer and get things
cleaned up.
-Matt
Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
Just typed up something on the laptop that said, "I owe you "this"
much", and we both signed it. Not fancy, but a little better than an
oral agreement. I won't miss a payment and will pay them back if it
takes closing the WISP and working 3 jobs. Missing payments is not an
option. Only if I'm laid up in the hospital. Personal guaranteed?
Well, I told them I will pay it back... I know the agreement leaves a
lot open, but I trust these 4 people. Anyway, so they are not
investors. Lastly, lets just leave me be about this :) I'd rather not
try to defend a million questions about what if this and what if that.
It is what I did and it is done.
Charles Wu wrote:
that would be a loan
what type of collateral do they have? or what happens if you miss a
payment?
have you personally guaranteed the money?
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian Rohrbacher
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 10:20 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Well, I guess we would call them loans as I have all control.
Correct me if I am wrong. They gave me money at a fixed rate. Loans or
investments?
Charles Wu wrote:
well...in determing their "dumbness" (assuming you're willing to
divulge this information) - what sort of investment / equity
share / control do your investors have?
I mean...assuming it's you and the other 4, does everyone
have
an equal share? (which is a different story all together) or
does 1 single person have a majority share and the other 4 are
minority partners
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian
Rohrbacher
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 8:05 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Well, I guess I found four "dumb" people that got me
started. All my start up funds came from 4 people. All
four were subs from a previous WISP I owned, (before my
partner took everything over and left me out in the cold) they
all said, "I want you providing service, not the "other
guy". So here I am. 7 months in and going strong. Oh,
almost forgot, like my lawyer has me say..all that is
just my opinion. ;-) I think "dumb" investors
are great!
Charles Wu wrote:
sure
a passive minority equity position stake in a
privately
held company is worthless, as legally, the person with the
majority stake can make 100% of the decisions (in terms of
purchasing, spending, cash distribution, etc)
think about it, if it was your money, would you be
willing
to just "invest it" into a company when the majority
partner can do whatever he/she wants to and you have no
recourse?
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of
*Dylan Oliver
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 4:10 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Charles,
would you expand on that?
On 8/22/05, *Charles Wu* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
FWIW...no invester (other than friends and family)
wor
Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
It's easy when your 21, unmarried and live with your parents.
Muuuhahaaahahaha I have a leg up on all of you. =-O
Brian
Barry at Mutual Data wrote:
Hello Brian,
WHAT DEBT FREE You can't do that That will disrupt the
time space continuum thingee. Didn't you know ISP's are supposed to
not make money?
Get a grip man :-)
Barry
Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 10:33:19 AM, you wrote:
BR> I plan to be debt free in a year, so I hope to be ok. Everyone all paid
BR> off and ready to roll.
BR> Matt Liotta wrote:
I wouldn't worry about it since the way you did it put the investors
at risk more so than you. There is a better way to do it and before
your company gets too successful you may want to visit a lawyer and
get things cleaned up.
-Matt
Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
Just typed up something on the laptop that said, "I owe you "this"
much", and we both signed it. Not fancy, but a little better than an
oral agreement. I won't miss a payment and will pay them back if it
takes closing the WISP and working 3 jobs. Missing payments is not
an option. Only if I'm laid up in the hospital. Personal
guaranteed? Well, I told them I will pay it back... I know the
agreement leaves a lot open, but I trust these 4 people. Anyway, so
they are not investors. Lastly, lets just leave me be about this :)
I'd rather not try to defend a million questions about what if this
and what if that. It is what I did and it is done.
Charles Wu wrote:
that would be a loan
what type of collateral do they have? or what happens if you miss a
payment?
have you personally guaranteed the money?
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] *On Behalf Of *Brian Rohrbacher
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 10:20 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Well, I guess we would call them loans as I have all control.
Correct me if I am wrong. They gave me money at a fixed rate.
Loans or investments?
Charles Wu wrote:
well...in determing their "dumbness" (assuming you're willing to
divulge this information) - what sort of investment / equity
share / control do your investors have?
I mean...assuming it's you and the other 4, does everyone
have
an equal share? (which is a different story all together) or
does 1 single person have a majority share and the other 4 are
minority partners
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] *On Behalf Of *Brian
Rohrbacher
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 8:05 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Well, I guess I found four "dumb" people that got me
started. All my start up funds came from 4 people. All
four were subs from a previous WISP I owned, (before my
partner took everything over and left me out in the cold)
they all said, "I want you providing service, not the "other
guy". So here I am. 7 months in and going strong. Oh,
almost forgot, like my lawyer has me say..all that is
just my opinion. ;-) I think "dumb" investors
are great!
Charles Wu wrote:
sure
a passive minority equity position stake in a
privately
held company is worthless, as legally, the person with the
majority stake can make 100% of the decisions (in terms of
purchasing, spending, cash distribution, etc)
think about it, if it was your money, would you
be willing
to just "invest it" into a company when the majority
partner can do whatever he/she wants to and you have no
recourse?
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] *On Behalf Of
*Dylan Oliver
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 4:10 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Charles,
would you expand on that?
On 8/22/05, *Charles Wu* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Hello Brian, WHAT DEBT FREE You can't do that That will disrupt the time space continuum thingee. Didn't you know ISP's are supposed to not make money? Get a grip man :-) Barry Wednesday, August 24, 2005, 10:33:19 AM, you wrote: BR> I plan to be debt free in a year, so I hope to be ok. Everyone all paid BR> off and ready to roll. BR> Matt Liotta wrote: >> I wouldn't worry about it since the way you did it put the investors >> at risk more so than you. There is a better way to do it and before >> your company gets too successful you may want to visit a lawyer and >> get things cleaned up. >> >> -Matt >> >> Brian Rohrbacher wrote: >> >>> Just typed up something on the laptop that said, "I owe you "this" >>> much", and we both signed it. Not fancy, but a little better than an >>> oral agreement. I won't miss a payment and will pay them back if it >>> takes closing the WISP and working 3 jobs. Missing payments is not >>> an option. Only if I'm laid up in the hospital. Personal >>> guaranteed? Well, I told them I will pay it back... I know the >>> agreement leaves a lot open, but I trust these 4 people. Anyway, so >>> they are not investors. Lastly, lets just leave me be about this :) >>> I'd rather not try to defend a million questions about what if this >>> and what if that. It is what I did and it is done. >>> >>> Charles Wu wrote: >>> >>>> that would be a loan >>>> what type of collateral do they have? or what happens if you miss a >>>> payment? >>>> have you personally guaranteed the money? >>>> >>>> -Charles >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> WISPNOG Park City, UT >>>> http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/> >>>> August 15-17, 2005 >>>> >>>> -Original Message- >>>> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian Rohrbacher >>>> *Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 10:20 PM >>>> *To:* WISPA General List >>>> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? >>>> >>>> Well, I guess we would call them loans as I have all control. >>>> Correct me if I am wrong. They gave me money at a fixed rate. >>>> Loans or investments? >>>> >>>> Charles Wu wrote: >>>> >>>>> well...in determing their "dumbness" (assuming you're willing to >>>>> divulge this information) - what sort of investment / equity >>>>> share / control do your investors have? >>>>> I mean...assuming it's you and the other 4, does everyone >>>>> have >>>>> an equal share? (which is a different story all together) or >>>>> does 1 single person have a majority share and the other 4 are >>>>> minority partners >>>>> -Charles >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> WISPNOG Park City, UT >>>>> http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/> >>>>> August 15-17, 2005 >>>>> >>>>> -Original Message- >>>>> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian >>>>> Rohrbacher >>>>> *Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 8:05 PM >>>>> *To:* WISPA General List >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? >>>>> >>>>> Well, I guess I found four "dumb" people that got me >>>>> started. All my start up funds came from 4 people. All >>>>> four were subs from a previous WISP I owned, (before my >>>>> partner took everything over and left me out in the cold) >>>>> they all said, "I want you providing service, not the "other >>>>> guy". So here I am. 7 months in and going strong. Oh, >>>>> almost forgot, like my lawyer has me say..all that is >>>>> just my opinion. ;-) I think "dumb" investors >>>>> are great! >>>>>
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
I plan to be debt free in a year, so I hope to be ok. Everyone all paid
off and ready to roll.
Matt Liotta wrote:
I wouldn't worry about it since the way you did it put the investors
at risk more so than you. There is a better way to do it and before
your company gets too successful you may want to visit a lawyer and
get things cleaned up.
-Matt
Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
Just typed up something on the laptop that said, "I owe you "this"
much", and we both signed it. Not fancy, but a little better than an
oral agreement. I won't miss a payment and will pay them back if it
takes closing the WISP and working 3 jobs. Missing payments is not
an option. Only if I'm laid up in the hospital. Personal
guaranteed? Well, I told them I will pay it back... I know the
agreement leaves a lot open, but I trust these 4 people. Anyway, so
they are not investors. Lastly, lets just leave me be about this :)
I'd rather not try to defend a million questions about what if this
and what if that. It is what I did and it is done.
Charles Wu wrote:
that would be a loan
what type of collateral do they have? or what happens if you miss a
payment?
have you personally guaranteed the money?
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian Rohrbacher
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 10:20 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Well, I guess we would call them loans as I have all control.
Correct me if I am wrong. They gave me money at a fixed rate.
Loans or investments?
Charles Wu wrote:
well...in determing their "dumbness" (assuming you're willing to
divulge this information) - what sort of investment / equity
share / control do your investors have?
I mean...assuming it's you and the other 4, does everyone
have
an equal share? (which is a different story all together) or
does 1 single person have a majority share and the other 4 are
minority partners
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian
Rohrbacher
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 8:05 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Well, I guess I found four "dumb" people that got me
started. All my start up funds came from 4 people. All
four were subs from a previous WISP I owned, (before my
partner took everything over and left me out in the cold)
they all said, "I want you providing service, not the "other
guy". So here I am. 7 months in and going strong. Oh,
almost forgot, like my lawyer has me say..all that is
just my opinion. ;-) I think "dumb" investors
are great!
Charles Wu wrote:
sure
a passive minority equity position stake in a
privately
held company is worthless, as legally, the person with the
majority stake can make 100% of the decisions (in terms of
purchasing, spending, cash distribution, etc)
think about it, if it was your money, would you
be willing
to just "invest it" into a company when the majority
partner can do whatever he/she wants to and you have no
recourse?
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of
*Dylan Oliver
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 4:10 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Charles,
would you expand on that?
On 8/22/05, *Charles Wu* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
FWIW...no invester (other than friends and family)
worth their salt will be
willing to invest capital into the company for a
minority position, as that
is basically a sure way to guarantee the loss of
their money
That said, there is a fool born every day
-Charles
-- Dylan Oliver
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
I wouldn't worry about it since the way you did it put the investors at
risk more so than you. There is a better way to do it and before your
company gets too successful you may want to visit a lawyer and get
things cleaned up.
-Matt
Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
Just typed up something on the laptop that said, "I owe you "this"
much", and we both signed it. Not fancy, but a little better than an
oral agreement. I won't miss a payment and will pay them back if it
takes closing the WISP and working 3 jobs. Missing payments is not an
option. Only if I'm laid up in the hospital. Personal guaranteed?
Well, I told them I will pay it back... I know the agreement leaves a
lot open, but I trust these 4 people. Anyway, so they are not
investors. Lastly, lets just leave me be about this :) I'd rather
not try to defend a million questions about what if this and what if
that. It is what I did and it is done.
Charles Wu wrote:
that would be a loan
what type of collateral do they have? or what happens if you miss a
payment?
have you personally guaranteed the money?
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian Rohrbacher
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 10:20 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Well, I guess we would call them loans as I have all control.
Correct me if I am wrong. They gave me money at a fixed rate.
Loans or investments?
Charles Wu wrote:
well...in determing their "dumbness" (assuming you're willing to
divulge this information) - what sort of investment / equity
share / control do your investors have?
I mean...assuming it's you and the other 4, does everyone have
an equal share? (which is a different story all together) or
does 1 single person have a majority share and the other 4 are
minority partners
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian
Rohrbacher
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 8:05 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Well, I guess I found four "dumb" people that got me
started. All my start up funds came from 4 people. All
four were subs from a previous WISP I owned, (before my
partner took everything over and left me out in the cold)
they all said, "I want you providing service, not the "other
guy". So here I am. 7 months in and going strong. Oh,
almost forgot, like my lawyer has me say..all that is
just my opinion. ;-) I think "dumb" investors
are great!
Charles Wu wrote:
sure
a passive minority equity position stake in a privately
held company is worthless, as legally, the person with the
majority stake can make 100% of the decisions (in terms of
purchasing, spending, cash distribution, etc)
think about it, if it was your money, would you be willing
to just "invest it" into a company when the majority
partner can do whatever he/she wants to and you have no
recourse?
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of
*Dylan Oliver
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 4:10 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Charles,
would you expand on that?
On 8/22/05, *Charles Wu* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
FWIW...no invester (other than friends and family)
worth their salt will be
willing to invest capital into the company for a
minority position, as that
is basically a sure way to guarantee the loss of
their money
That said, there is a fool born every day
-Charles
--
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC
No vir
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Title: Message
Just typed up something on the laptop that said, "I owe you "this"
much", and we both signed it. Not fancy, but a little better than an
oral agreement. I won't miss a payment and will pay them back if it
takes closing the WISP and working 3 jobs. Missing payments is not an
option. Only if I'm laid up in the hospital. Personal guaranteed?
Well, I told them I will pay it back... I know the agreement leaves a
lot open, but I trust these 4 people. Anyway, so they are not
investors. Lastly, lets just leave me be about this :) I'd rather not
try to defend a million questions about what if this and what if that.
It is what I did and it is done.
Charles Wu wrote:
that would be a loan
what type of collateral do they have? or what
happens if you miss a payment?
have you personally guaranteed the money?
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Brian
Rohrbacher
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 10:20 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Well, I guess we would call them loans as I have all control. Correct
me if I am wrong. They gave me money at a fixed rate. Loans or
investments?
Charles Wu wrote:
well...in determing their "dumbness" (assuming
you're willing to divulge this information) - what sort of investment /
equity share / control do your investors have?
I mean...assuming it's you and the other 4, does
everyone have an equal share? (which is a different story all together)
or does 1 single person have a majority share and the other 4 are
minority partners
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 8:05 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Well, I guess I found four "dumb" people that got me started. All my
start up funds came from 4 people. All four were subs from a previous
WISP I owned, (before my partner took everything over and left me out
in the cold) they all said, "I want you providing service, not the
"other guy". So here I am. 7 months in and going strong. Oh, almost
forgot, like my lawyer has me say..all that is just my opinion. ;-) I think
"dumb" investors are great!
Charles Wu wrote:
sure
a passive minority equity position stake in a
privately held company is worthless, as legally, the person with the
majority stake can make 100% of the decisions (in terms of purchasing,
spending, cash distribution, etc)
think about it, if it was your money, would you
be willing to just "invest it" into a company when the majority partner
can do whatever he/she wants to and you have no recourse?
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Dylan Oliver
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 4:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Charles,
would you expand on that?
On 8/22/05, Charles Wu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
FWIW...no
invester (other than friends and family) worth their salt will be
willing to invest capital into the company for a minority position, as
that
is basically a sure way to guarantee the loss of their money
That said, there is a fool born every day
-Charles
--
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC
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Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Although you speak of a common reality, that is not intirely true. People invest their money in companies on a daily basis, without being majority equity holder. Its called the stock market. The big difference is public versus private comapny. But there are many type of agreements to guarantee payback of an investment, without controlling stock, that can't be undone by the controlling partner. For example, the payback/ROI terms defined in an enforceable agreement. The point I'm making is that the terms of a loan do not have to be fixed, and can have variables based on certain things happening. For example for every dollar paid out in payroll, a dollar needs to be repaid back to loan, if not, lender has right to demand payment in full, at top priority over future lenders or agreements, etc. Which could result in the take over of the company, by the investor, if the owner is not responsible. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Charles Wu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 5:08 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? FWIW...no invester (other than friends and family) worth their salt will be willing to invest capital into the company for a minority position, as that is basically a sure way to guarantee the loss of their money That said, there is a fool born every day -Charles --- WISPNOG Park City, UT http://www.wispnog.com August 15-17, 2005 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frank Muto Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 1:50 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? First ask yourself, "how much control and equity am I willing to give up"? Frank Muto President/Ceo FSM Marketing Group, Inc - Original Message - From: "Dan Metcalf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Any wisp's ever take on an investor? I'm looking to expand and wondering how I should handle a potential investor who is willing to provide some serious capitol? Thanks Dan -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.13/78 - Release Date: 8/19/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Title: Message
An investor has nothing to do with equity stake. An
investor is someone who provides money with an expectation to get a return on
that money. The difference between and investor and a loan, is that a loan
is guaranteed to be paid back at a guaranteed ROI or interest rate, and
guaranteed pay schedule.
An investor really only cares about getting the
maximum return on investment, and is more flexible on the terms, if it means
that they may get a higher ROI down the road because of the terms that were
extended. An investor is expected to make more because their is more
risk. Butan investor does not need to be an equity stake
holder.
Now on the books, payments received into the
company have to be recorded as one of several methods. The two most common
are listed on the books as a loan, or as a cash deposit in the company back
account, which could be defined as equity. The corporate docs would
discuss the terms of that investment or cash injection. Its really
just a tax and liability issue. You can make the terms of a loan
or investment just about anything that you want it to be.
Tom DeReggiRapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
- Original Message -
From:
Charles Wu
To: 'WISPA General List'
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 3:04
PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Taking on an
investor?
that
would be a loan
what
type of collateral do they have? or what happens if you miss a
payment?
have
you personally guaranteed the money?
-Charles
---WISPNOG Park
City, UThttp://www.wispnog.comAugust 15-17,
2005
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian
RohrbacherSent: Monday, August 22, 2005 10:20 PMTo:
WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an
investor?Well, I guess we would call them loans as I
have all control. Correct me if I am wrong. They gave me money
at a fixed rate. Loans or investments?Charles Wu wrote:
well...in determing their "dumbness" (assuming you're willing to
divulge this information) - what sort of investment / equity share /
control do your investors have?
I mean...assuming it's you and the other 4, does everyone have an
equal share? (which is a different story all together) or does 1 single
person have a majority share and the other 4 are minority
partners
-Charles
---WISPNOG
Park City, UThttp://www.wispnog.comAugust 15-17,
2005
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Brian RohrbacherSent: Monday, August 22,
2005 8:05 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re:
[WISPA] Taking on an investor?Well, I guess I found
four "dumb" people that got me started. All my start up funds came
from 4 people. All four were subs from a previous WISP I
owned, (before my partner took everything over and left me out in
the cold) they all said, "I want you providing service, not the
"other guy". So here I am. 7 months in and going
strong. Oh, almost forgot, like my lawyer has me say..all that
is just my opinion. ;-)
I think "dumb" investors are great! Charles
Wu wrote:
sure
a passive minority equity position stake in a privately held
company is worthless, as legally, the person with the majority stake
can make 100% of the decisions (in terms of purchasing, spending, cash
distribution, etc)
think about it, if it was your money, would you be willing to
just "invest it" into a company when the majority partner can do
whatever he/she wants to and you have no recourse?
-Charles
---WISPNOG
Park City, UThttp://www.wispnog.comAugust
15-17, 2005
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Dylan OliverSent: Monday, August 22,
2005 4:10 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re:
[WISPA] Taking on an
investor?Charles,would you expand on
that?
On 8/22/05, Charles Wu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
FWIW...no
invester (other than friends and family) worth their salt will
bewilling to invest capital into the company for a minority
position, as thatis basically a sure way to
RE: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Title: Message
that
would be a loan
what
type of collateral do they have? or what happens if you miss a
payment?
have
you personally guaranteed the money?
-Charles
---WISPNOG Park
City, UThttp://www.wispnog.comAugust 15-17,
2005
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Brian RohrbacherSent: Monday, August 22, 2005 10:20
PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on
an investor?Well, I guess we would call them loans as I
have all control. Correct me if I am wrong. They gave me money at
a fixed rate. Loans or investments?Charles Wu wrote:
well...in determing their "dumbness" (assuming you're willing to
divulge this information) - what sort of investment / equity share / control
do your investors have?
I
mean...assuming it's you and the other 4, does everyone have an equal share?
(which is a different story all together) or does 1 single person have a
majority share and the other 4 are minority partners
-Charles
---WISPNOG Park
City, UThttp://www.wispnog.comAugust 15-17,
2005
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Brian RohrbacherSent: Monday, August 22,
2005 8:05 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re:
[WISPA] Taking on an investor?Well, I guess I found
four "dumb" people that got me started. All my start up funds came
from 4 people. All four were subs from a previous WISP I
owned, (before my partner took everything over and left me out in
the cold) they all said, "I want you providing service, not the
"other guy". So here I am. 7 months in and going strong.
Oh, almost forgot, like my lawyer has me say..all that is just my
opinion. ;-)
I think "dumb" investors are great! Charles Wu
wrote:
sure
a passive minority equity position stake in a privately held
company is worthless, as legally, the person with the majority stake can
make 100% of the decisions (in terms of purchasing, spending, cash
distribution, etc)
think about it, if it was your money, would you be willing to
just "invest it" into a company when the majority partner can do
whatever he/she wants to and you have no recourse?
-Charles
---WISPNOG
Park City, UThttp://www.wispnog.comAugust
15-17, 2005
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Dylan OliverSent: Monday, August 22,
2005 4:10 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re:
[WISPA] Taking on an
investor?Charles,would you expand on
that?
On 8/22/05, Charles Wu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
FWIW...no
invester (other than friends and family) worth their salt will
bewilling to invest capital into the company for a minority
position, as thatis basically a sure way to guarantee the loss
of their moneyThat said, there is a fool born every
day-Charles-- Dylan
OliverPrimaverity, LLC
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.14/79 - Release Date: 8/22/2005
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.14/79 - Release Date: 8/22/2005
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Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Title: Message
Well, I guess we would call them loans as I have all control. Correct
me if I am wrong. They gave me money at a fixed rate. Loans or
investments?
Charles Wu wrote:
well...in determing their "dumbness" (assuming
you're willing to divulge this information) - what sort of investment /
equity share / control do your investors have?
I mean...assuming it's you and the other 4, does
everyone have an equal share? (which is a different story all together)
or does 1 single person have a majority share and the other 4 are
minority partners
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Brian
Rohrbacher
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 8:05 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Well, I guess I found four "dumb" people that got me started. All my
start up funds came from 4 people. All four were subs from a previous
WISP I owned, (before my partner took everything over and left me out
in the cold) they all said, "I want you providing service, not the
"other guy". So here I am. 7 months in and going strong. Oh, almost
forgot, like my lawyer has me say..all that is just my opinion. ;-) I think
"dumb" investors are great!
Charles Wu wrote:
sure
a passive minority equity position stake in a
privately held company is worthless, as legally, the person with the
majority stake can make 100% of the decisions (in terms of purchasing,
spending, cash distribution, etc)
think about it, if it was your money, would you
be willing to just "invest it" into a company when the majority partner
can do whatever he/she wants to and you have no recourse?
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Dylan Oliver
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 4:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Charles,
would you expand on that?
On 8/22/05, Charles Wu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
FWIW...no
invester (other than friends and family) worth their salt will be
willing to invest capital into the company for a minority position, as
that
is basically a sure way to guarantee the loss of their money
That said, there is a fool born every day
-Charles
--
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC
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Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Not true. Minority stakeholders are actually protected from this
behavior in many states. I think the level is 15% in Colorado. If you
aren't careful raising money you could end up with your Popsicle in a
wringer. Check investment rules. If you take money which exceeds the a
certain percentage of an individual's net worth, you could be in
trouble. If you don't disclose risks you could be in deep weeds.
You can find Angel investors - just google around for incubators or
angel investors. They can and do know how to invest and how to help your
company grow. Be prepared to sell off more of your company though as
time moves forward.
Charles Wu wrote:
sure
a passive minority equity position stake in a privately held company
is worthless, as legally, the person with the majority stake can make
100% of the decisions (in terms of purchasing, spending, cash
distribution, etc)
think about it, if it was your money, would you be willing to just
"invest it" into a company when the majority partner can do whatever
he/she wants to and you have no recourse?
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Dylan Oliver
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 4:10 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Charles,
would you expand on that?
On 8/22/05, *Charles Wu* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
wrote:
FWIW...no invester (other than friends and family) worth their
salt will be
willing to invest capital into the company for a minority
position, as that
is basically a sure way to guarantee the loss of their money
That said, there is a fool born every day
-Charles
--
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC
--
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RE: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Title: Message well...in determing their "dumbness" (assuming you're willing to divulge this information) - what sort of investment / equity share / control do your investors have? I mean...assuming it's you and the other 4, does everyone have an equal share? (which is a different story all together) or does 1 single person have a majority share and the other 4 are minority partners -Charles ---WISPNOG Park City, UThttp://www.wispnog.comAugust 15-17, 2005 -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian RohrbacherSent: Monday, August 22, 2005 8:05 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?Well, I guess I found four "dumb" people that got me started. All my start up funds came from 4 people. All four were subs from a previous WISP I owned, (before my partner took everything over and left me out in the cold) they all said, "I want you providing service, not the "other guy". So here I am. 7 months in and going strong. Oh, almost forgot, like my lawyer has me say..all that is just my opinion. ;-) I think "dumb" investors are great! Charles Wu wrote: sure a passive minority equity position stake in a privately held company is worthless, as legally, the person with the majority stake can make 100% of the decisions (in terms of purchasing, spending, cash distribution, etc) think about it, if it was your money, would you be willing to just "invest it" into a company when the majority partner can do whatever he/she wants to and you have no recourse? -Charles ---WISPNOG Park City, UThttp://www.wispnog.comAugust 15-17, 2005 -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Dylan OliverSent: Monday, August 22, 2005 4:10 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?Charles,would you expand on that? On 8/22/05, Charles Wu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: FWIW...no invester (other than friends and family) worth their salt will bewilling to invest capital into the company for a minority position, as thatis basically a sure way to guarantee the loss of their moneyThat said, there is a fool born every day-Charles-- Dylan OliverPrimaverity, LLC No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.14/79 - Release Date: 8/22/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Title: Message
Well, I guess I found four "dumb" people that got me started. All my
start up funds came from 4 people. All four were subs from a previous
WISP I owned, (before my partner took everything over and left me out
in the cold) they all said, "I want you providing service, not the
"other guy". So here I am. 7 months in and going strong. Oh, almost
forgot, like my lawyer has me say..all that is just my opinion. ;-) I think
"dumb" investors are great!
Charles Wu wrote:
sure
a passive minority equity position stake in a
privately held company is worthless, as legally, the person with the
majority stake can make 100% of the decisions (in terms of purchasing,
spending, cash distribution, etc)
think about it, if it was your money, would you
be willing to just "invest it" into a company when the majority partner
can do whatever he/she wants to and you have no recourse?
-Charles
---
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com
August 15-17, 2005
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Dylan Oliver
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 4:10 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Charles,
would you expand on that?
On 8/22/05, Charles Wu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
FWIW...no
invester (other than friends and family) worth their salt will be
willing to invest capital into the company for a minority position, as
that
is basically a sure way to guarantee the loss of their money
That said, there is a fool born every day
-Charles
--
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.14/79 - Release Date: 8/22/2005
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RE: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Title: Message sure a passive minority equity position stake in a privately held company is worthless, as legally, the person with the majority stake can make 100% of the decisions (in terms of purchasing, spending, cash distribution, etc) think about it, if it was your money, would you be willing to just "invest it" into a company when the majority partner can do whatever he/she wants to and you have no recourse? -Charles ---WISPNOG Park City, UThttp://www.wispnog.comAugust 15-17, 2005 -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dylan OliverSent: Monday, August 22, 2005 4:10 PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?Charles,would you expand on that? On 8/22/05, Charles Wu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: FWIW...no invester (other than friends and family) worth their salt will bewilling to invest capital into the company for a minority position, as thatis basically a sure way to guarantee the loss of their moneyThat said, there is a fool born every day-Charles-- Dylan OliverPrimaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
I'll reply to that. People with money do not have to spend it. Remember that most of all. They can easily invest it in a conservative location and get a safe secure rate of return. Remember they don't need to spend it so they don't need a big rate of return on money that already don't need to spend. Still with me? Now if they were to invest in something as risky as this, they would need one hell of a possible gain on their investment. Remember they don't need to spend it. For them to even talk to you about giving you some of their money they must think it is a good idea. If they are willing to fork over their money, they must feel they are going to be able to get a huge return to justify their risk. So let's review. One they will get a huge return on their investment, Two if they aren't charging you a huge interest rate, where do you think they will get the return. Which brings us to Three, they will take control of your company, learn all they can from you then fire you and keep it all to themselves. Harsh but true, I'm sure there are many on the list who know of these stories. Now leasing doesn't look all that bad does it? At least you know the costs up front and the rules are quite simple. Just pay your payments then eventually you will get to keep the company and reap the benefits of your hard work, not just hand it over to the folks who wrote the checks. If you don't think I'm serious, try to write contracts so this can't happen and see how fast they write the checks :-) Like Charles said, unless it's family or friends.but even then it can be tricky, that's a good way to lose friends. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Dylan Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 5:10 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? Charles, would you expand on that? On 8/22/05, Charles Wu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: FWIW...no invester (other than friends and family) worth their salt will be willing to invest capital into the company for a minority position, as that is basically a sure way to guarantee the loss of their money That said, there is a fool born every day -Charles -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
Charles, would you expand on that?On 8/22/05, Charles Wu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: FWIW...no invester (other than friends and family) worth their salt will bewilling to invest capital into the company for a minority position, as thatis basically a sure way to guarantee the loss of their money That said, there is a fool born every day-Charles -- Dylan OliverPrimaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
FWIW...no invester (other than friends and family) worth their salt will be willing to invest capital into the company for a minority position, as that is basically a sure way to guarantee the loss of their money That said, there is a fool born every day -Charles --- WISPNOG Park City, UT http://www.wispnog.com August 15-17, 2005 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frank Muto Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 1:50 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? First ask yourself, "how much control and equity am I willing to give up"? Frank Muto President/Ceo FSM Marketing Group, Inc - Original Message - From: "Dan Metcalf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Any wisp's ever take on an investor? I'm looking to expand and > wondering how I > should handle a potential investor who is willing to provide some > serious capitol? > > Thanks > > Dan -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
First ask yourself, "how much control and equity am I willing to give up"? Frank Muto President/Ceo FSM Marketing Group, Inc - Original Message - From: "Dan Metcalf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Any wisp's ever take on an investor? I'm looking to expand and wondering how I > should handle a potential investor who is willing to provide some serious > capitol? > > Thanks > > Dan -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
I know of some investors that could provide you some capital, but the capitol would be difficult to move from DC ... heheh :-) I couldn't resist Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.767.7466 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Metcalf Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 11:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? Any wisp's ever take on an investor? I'm looking to expand and wondering how I should handle a potential investor who is willing to provide some serious capitol? Thanks Dan -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.13/78 - Release Date: 08/19/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
That really depends on your financial situation. Depending on how bad you need he money and how much risk there will be to the investor will determine the terms. Borrowing less money is rarely a benefit to the investor to get you better terms, because the investment then becomes less lower scale with less of a return to justify all the beaurocracy involved in negotiating the deal. What you will find is no one wants to buy a burn rate. No one wants to invest in a business where all the needed employess aren't getting paid by the existing revenues. They need to know that if they give you money, and it sits in your bank account, it would still be there six months later if you didn't expand, so they'd be able to get their money back. The second the money is used for going after potential, marketing, increasing staff, deployment of new sites without exisitng custoemrs, etc, there is significant risk and the deal changes to the investors favor. Its hard because to make your company look good for taxes means making it look bad for an investor and vice versa. Investors prefer to see a company which stands on its own with little ties financially to the owners. More so, they want to see a clear plan of how, when, and what profit the investor should expect a paypack. ON the far end of the spectrum, a VC, will look to find at minimum 500% ROI in 5 years. And you usually need to be cash flow positive for that. Sometimes taking on an investor really means taking on a business partner not a lendor, with a loss of control or freedom. However, if your company is at a sound stage, and you have the track record in place to justify your proposed ROI, Investors are looking for places to put their money, when they are probably making less than nothing with it sitting in the bank or in the stock market. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Dan Metcalf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 11:05 AM Subject: [WISPA] Taking on an investor? Any wisp's ever take on an investor? I'm looking to expand and wondering how I should handle a potential investor who is willing to provide some serious capitol? Thanks Dan -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.13/78 - Release Date: 08/19/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.13/78 - Release Date: 8/19/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
