RE: [WSG] SilverLight
Thanks Christian, Agreed, more work has to be done. One problem I find with this is that the build-generated (X)HTML pages are not contained within a packaged vehicle, as in a .swf, etc. These free-standing pages are at the mercy of the Silverlight plug-in being installed on the user's OS, and at this time, it only caters for the Trident and Gecko range of browser/user agents. I'm not a managed code expert by any means, so I do stand to be corrected here. I've been through something similar before, experimenting with XML and XSLT + CSS to produce single-sourced user assistance and developer technical documentation. For instance, needing a javascript interpreter to sniff out which browser is active and then override the OS generic XSLT processor to allow a page to render in the chosen browser with its own XSLT processor. Even so, the pages I created with this method all had their structure, presentation and content dynamically generated, as in the Silverlight example, and of no use (at this stage) beyond the graphic rendering. I think that Gez Lemon from The Paciello Group has looked into the accessibility aspects of these early versions of Silverlight, but am not aware of his findings yet. Kind regards, Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christian Montoya Sent: Tuesday, 30 October, 2007 7:48 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] SilverLight On 10/30/07, Frank Palinkas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From an accessibility aspect, a screen scrapper maybe be able to do its job. However, any attempt to work the markup will be futile. Obviously this wouldn't be as easy as understanding plain HTML markup, but what I was saying was that a device could refer to Scene.xaml.js and parse that to get the relevant content/actions/etc. It's just slightly better than having to look at a .swf to figure out what's going on. New work will have to be done to make sense of Silverlight but the process should be easier than anything Adobe did with Flash... not that I'm bashing Flash here. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How z-index works
Thierry, excellent work! This is a good case of a picture worth thousand words - I think I pretty much understand how z-index works (after many hours of testing and an assignment from the CSS.2.1 class) but I still not able to get a comprehensive understanding from that article on z-index. On Oct 29, 2007, at 10:57 PM, Thierry Koblentz wrote: Hi John. Sorry to hear that, but I don't know what to say as nobody else has reported having problems :( You may want to have your web host take a look. It may be DNS caching (not sure if it's correct word) with your IP address. I encountered this problem with sites from Asia and Europe , because I really wanted to see the sites, so I reported the problem, and suggested them contact their web hosts. After that I was able to get the sites loaded. You maybe able to find out yourself from dnsstuff.com by entering your IP address, then report to your webhost. The first time I couldn't see a site and the site owner had no idea why, someone from another list told me to look up the IP address of that site to look for anomaly, thus I was able to tell the site owner to seek help from his webhost. tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SilverLight
It's going to be on linux as well http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/09/moonlight_silve_1.html Moonlight is the answer On 10/30/07, Michael MD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the beta process, they were doing some flipping browser detection **from within the plugin**, and only checked for Safari or Firefox, as opposed to check for Gecko. The demos I've seen still only work half and half on Mac browsers, except Firefox 2.0.0.x and Safari. what about linux browsers? I won't go near it if it is locked down to one or two operating systems. I even avoided using flash for anything other than the occasional animated banner until quite recently for the same reason... (it was the talk on Flex a few months ago at a WSG Sydney gathering and the mention of Flash Player 9 being available on linux that encouraged me to to actually take a more serious look at flash/swf/etc!) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- С уважением, Юрий akella Артюх http://cssing.org.ua *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SilverLight
In the beta process, they were doing some flipping browser detection **from within the plugin**, and only checked for Safari or Firefox, as opposed to check for Gecko. The demos I've seen still only work half and half on Mac browsers, except Firefox 2.0.0.x and Safari. what about linux browsers? I won't go near it if it is locked down to one or two operating systems. I even avoided using flash for anything other than the occasional animated banner until quite recently for the same reason... (it was the talk on Flex a few months ago at a WSG Sydney gathering and the mention of Flash Player 9 being available on linux that encouraged me to to actually take a more serious look at flash/swf/etc!) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
As far as I'm aware, it's not something that Google will automatically ban a site for anyway but if it is being used for black hat tactics then the site is open to being reported by anyone (possibly a competitor) which Google may then do a manual check of and ban the site if they deem the site to be breaking their terms of use. If display: none; is being used for a legitimate purpose then I wouldn't worry about it but as I mentioned earlier, it can have a negative impact on accessibility so as with most things, it depends how and why you're using this method. Thanks Dave - - - - - - - - - - http://www.dave-woods.co.uk On 30/10/2007, Alexander Gounder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, The Fact is that SEOs use this CSS feature (display:none) for cloaking which is a Black Hat SEO technique. Further the whole idea of you showing something(h1-3 tags filled with Keywords) to Google or any Search bot and hiding these from you end user speaks very bad about your intentions... Instead if your using this for some other purpose and the effect of this can be viewed by the end user then its not considered cloaking and google is quite intelligent to know that but the same can't be said about other search engines. So you need to decide on this depending on where your traffic is coming from. Thanks Alexander, Web Designer and SEO in Mumbai, India http://www.ecreeds.com On 10/29/07, Simon Cockayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I am sure I read that CSS's display: none has a detrimental on SEO. Is this true* or did I dream it? *To clarify...I am keen to know if it is true that there is a detrimental impact...not whether it is true that I read it or not. Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SilverLight
akella wrote: It's going to be on linux as well http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/09/moonlight_silve_1.html Moonlight is the answer Silverlight is patent encumbered and - on Linux - it may only be distributed by Novell (due to a patent agreement that lasts 4 years). This means that it won't appear by default in Debian or Ubuntu (and probably Redhat). To quote Novell, to avoid patent problems over Silverlight, when using or developing Mono’s implementation (known as Moonlight), i’s best to ‘get/download Moonlight from Novell which will include patent coverage. [...] Moonlight will be able to run on any distro supported by Mono, which is most of the major distros. Under the terms of the agreements we have with Microsoft, Novell customers are covered by Microsoft’s covenant not to sue over patents. In terms of Moonlight, that means that, if you download Moonlight from Novell (which is free of charge), you are considered a Novell customer of Moonlight, whether you run it on SUSE Linux Enterprise or on another distribution. If you get the Moonlight code from elsewhere, you are not considered a Novell customer, and so don’t fall within the covenant. .Matthew Cruickshank http://holloway.co.nz/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: worst site I've seen lately
whisperI actually quite like it./whisper I thought it was pretty cool too. A bit of experimentation shows that there's actually been a fair bit of work put into font-previewing interface. Definitely nowhere near the worst site I've seen recently. I didn't think it was so bad - *except* that there is a lack of text for browsers without flash or frames (and yes - search engines won't see much there either) ... but that is something lacking on a lot of flash-based sites out there so it's hardly the worst... ... visually it even looks kind of cool... *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Site check requested
Hi Rick, I loaded up your page, facinated by your achievement for a semantic structure, it looks good, however I'm getting validation errors for the DOC type, the img tag and trimming empty on 2 span tags, Did you get the same? William Rick Lecoat wrote: Hi; I'm recreating a table-based site that I did a few years back, rebuilding it (hopefully) to web standards and making it as accessible as I can. Currently it's one static page and the links largely don't go anywhere, but I would appreciate feedback from the list before I proceed with more pages. http://sandbox.sharkattack.co.uk/novaRebuild/working.html It's really my first stab at a semantic markup, fully-CSS, accessible site; it's also my first ever attempt at an elastic layout, so be merciful. Many thanks! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Site check requested
Looks good on my iPod! Tom On 30 Oct 2007, at 12:38, willdonovan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Rick, I loaded up your page, facinated by your achievement for a semantic structure, it looks good, however I'm getting validation errors for the DOC type, the img tag and trimming empty on 2 span tags, Did you get the same? William Rick Lecoat wrote: Hi; I'm recreating a table-based site that I did a few years back, rebuilding it (hopefully) to web standards and making it as accessible as I can. Currently it's one static page and the links largely don't go anywhere, but I would appreciate feedback from the list before I proceed with more pages. http://sandbox.sharkattack.co.uk/novaRebuild/working.html It's really my first stab at a semantic markup, fully-CSS, accessible site; it's also my first ever attempt at an elastic layout, so be merciful. Many thanks! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability
I dont seem to get any of the flicking effects that everyone is talking about. I'm using Firefox 2.0.0.8 William Gunlaug Sørtun wrote: Tee G. Peng wrote: teesworks.com/ Been working on this site in the last 2 days, I find that I am getting so annoyed by the surprise' everytime the hover pops up. If I, the site builder, find it annoying, what will the users find ? As a user I find that kind of visual flicker highly annoying. I am beginning to think this is causing a usability issue and is killing all other usable elements that I work so hard to try to get them right. A 'Skip to content' link may have its uses, but I don't see much need for one in that design - too few links to skip (at least in that dev page). Basic accessibility is too hard to sell anyway, and I don't see the point in annoying clients and/or the majority of users with such minor issues when there are so many other practical issues to take care of and spend dev-time on. Personally I don't provide skip to (whatever) links in a design unless there's a client-request for them, and then I style them without any flicker effects. regards Georg *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability
on the topic of skip links and semantic styling, and to add to the mix of usability, accessibility and getting into the habit of best practice, Accessibility is not just for the impaired, it is also for people who access through different devices where CSS has not been styled to suite what is being looked at. I know that mobile isn't a big thing right now, however it is gaining pace and there are more internet enabled mobile devices than there are desktop computers. food for thought William Tee G. Peng wrote: On Oct 28, 2007, at 3:56 AM, Stuart Foulstone wrote: But the point is that, this accessibility feature is for people who can't use a mouse - i.e. they cannot click anywhere. Ah yah right A good point you have made. I am a 'mouse' user, and I do find skip to (content/navigation) useful for me. Now you pointed out ( John and other did too but I was blind :) ), makes me realized I was mainly viewing this feature from my own' benefit. Glad that I asked. Sometimes one has to show one's ignorance so one can learn something important :) tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Site check requested
Rick, the site looks good. visually i would maybe slow down your animated gif a bit, or include the company name or slogan or something and have it stop after going through once or maybe looping just a couple of times and fall to rest on the name/slogan/whatever. it's a bit fast and i found the constant movement to be a slight distraction. just a thought. looks outstanding for a first effort! On 10/30/07, willdonovan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Rick, I loaded up your page, facinated by your achievement for a semantic structure, it looks good, however I'm getting validation errors for the DOC type, the img tag and trimming empty on 2 span tags, Did you get the same? William Rick Lecoat wrote: Hi; I'm recreating a table-based site that I did a few years back, rebuilding it (hopefully) to web standards and making it as accessible as I can. Currently it's one static page and the links largely don't go anywhere, but I would appreciate feedback from the list before I proceed with more pages. http://sandbox.sharkattack.co.uk/novaRebuild/working.html It's really my first stab at a semantic markup, fully-CSS, accessible site; it's also my first ever attempt at an elastic layout, so be merciful. Many thanks! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
I agree with you Dave, Google is not about to ban you, however if this is used in combination with other known black hat tactics, then you will. Google will check your CSS but once again, if you are using this technique to excess, then you should be worried. There was talk via a different email thread, and someone raised the same SEO concern, people have been using hidden and the CSS off-page described regularly for accessibility, and there haven't been any stories to date on those using these techniques legitimately and been banned by a search engine. William Dave Woods wrote: As far as I'm aware, it's not something that Google will automatically ban a site for anyway but if it is being used for black hat tactics then the site is open to being reported by anyone (possibly a competitor) which Google may then do a manual check of and ban the site if they deem the site to be breaking their terms of use. If display: none; is being used for a legitimate purpose then I wouldn't worry about it but as I mentioned earlier, it can have a negative impact on accessibility so as with most things, it depends how and why you're using this method. Thanks Dave - - - - - - - - - - http://www.dave-woods.co.uk On 30/10/2007, Alexander Gounder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, The Fact is that SEOs use this CSS feature (display:none) for cloaking which is a Black Hat SEO technique. Further the whole idea of you showing something(h1-3 tags filled with Keywords) to Google or any Search bot and hiding these from you end user speaks very bad about your intentions... Instead if your using this for some other purpose and the effect of this can be viewed by the end user then its not considered cloaking and google is quite intelligent to know that but the same can't be said about other search engines. So you need to decide on this depending on where your traffic is coming from. Thanks Alexander, Web Designer and SEO in Mumbai, India http://www.ecreeds.com On 10/29/07, Simon Cockayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I am sure I read that CSS's display: none has a detrimental on SEO. Is this true* or did I dream it? *To clarify...I am keen to know if it is true that there is a detrimental impact...not whether it is true that I read it or not. Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SilverLight
On 10/30/07, Christian Montoya wrote: On 10/30/07, Derek Featherstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christian - do you have a reference for that anywhere? I'd be really interested in seeing it (as I'm sure others would be too!) Just read the spec on XAML, which is what Silverlight uses: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms752059.aspx Hi Christian - I actually meant a reference on this part of your statement: [because Silverlight uses XML] Microsoft claims that Silverlight is much easier for screen readers, search spiders, etc. to work with. Can you show us where they claim it is much easier for screen readers, search spiders to work with? THAT is what I want to see... Thanks, and sorry for my lack of clarity... Derek. -- Derek Featherstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel: +1 613-599-9784 1-866-932-4878 (toll-free in North America) Work: http://www.furtherahead.com Blog: http://www.boxofchocolates.ca Learn: http://north.webdirections.org *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Site check requested
On 30/10/07 (13:38) willdonovan said: I loaded up your page, facinated by your achievement for a semantic structure 'Fascinated' is one of those worryingly ambiguous terms... ;-) it looks good, however I'm getting validation errors for the DOC type, the img tag and trimming empty on 2 span tags, Did you get the same? Thanks for the check-over William; weirdly I'm not getting those validation errors, either from Web Developer Toolbar or the W3C validator itself. What is particularly odd about that is that I thought that I *did* have one glitch to fix (brought on by a change made to the page since I originally posted the URL to the group), but it has apparently evaporated into the ether. Very odd. The mystery error was indeed on the img tag, and stemmed from the fact that I misunderstood how a longdesc attribute works -- I had put regular text in there like an alt attribute, whereas I believe that it should be a URL pointing to a descriptive document. (My description -- a repetition of the text displayed in the animated gif -- was a few characters too long for a regular alt text). The wrongly conceived longdesc is still in place, however, so I don't know why the validation error has vanished, unless the original error report was a mistake. Are you using a different validator to me? http://tinyurl.com/2y7pnf -- Rick Lecoat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Site check requested
On 30/10/07 (14:09) JonMarc said: Rick, the site looks good. visually i would maybe slow down your animated gif a bit, or include the company name or slogan or something and have it stop after going through once or maybe looping just a couple of times and fall to rest on the name/slogan/whatever. it's a bit fast and i found the constant movement to be a slight distraction. just a thought. And a perfectly good thought, at that. In this case I'm trying to keep the look and feel of the site as close as CSS will allow to the existing tables-based version that the client likes (and has been living with for a couple of years), so I'm leaving as many elements unchanged as possible, and that will include the gif speed, at least for now. Also, the speed of the gif does vary according to the computer it's being viewed on; high spec machines will let it whizz through its frames, but on some machines (eg girlfriend's iBook) it crawls past. looks outstanding for a first effort! Ah, now THAT just made my day. Thank you. -- Rick Lecoat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] SilverLight
On 10/30/07, Derek Featherstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/30/07, Christian Montoya wrote: On 10/30/07, Derek Featherstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christian - do you have a reference for that anywhere? I'd be really interested in seeing it (as I'm sure others would be too!) Just read the spec on XAML, which is what Silverlight uses: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms752059.aspx Hi Christian - I actually meant a reference on this part of your statement: [because Silverlight uses XML] Microsoft claims that Silverlight is much easier for screen readers, search spiders, etc. to work with. Can you show us where they claim it is much easier for screen readers, search spiders to work with? THAT is what I want to see... I know I read it somewhere but unfortunately I didn't save the article. If I come across it again, I'll send it over. Until then, assume it's just hearsay. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] skip to content: care of accessibility causing usability
On Oct 30, 2007, at 5:56 AM, willdonovan wrote: I dont seem to get any of the flicking effects that everyone is talking about. I'm using Firefox 2.0.0.8 Hi William, thanks for checking. It was eliminated :) This site has something similar to what I did - I think I must have gotten the idea from it ；） http://www.themaninblue.com/ tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Rounded Courners .... Your Take
What methods do you find best when creating rounded corners and which methods are the most supported? I have been using span tags and absolute positioning. I have also recently started to use the sliding doors method because you can achive nice rounded boxes with some nice effects, even better if you use PNG's. Using the span method i did find a bug in IE 6, the 2 corner span's wouldn't sit flush with the bottom of the containing div, although it displayed fine in every other browser i tested it on and they could be resized fine. It was odd though, because IE 5.x display them perfect, was just IE 6. Lets have your beloved methods then guys. James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Rounded Courners .... Your Take
Depending on the background, if the corners blue and the background is white then there is no problem a normal gif would do best but if the background is gradient or patterned then maybe in Photoshop when saving for web make sure its gif and set the matte option to a color close enough to the background color. Or I just use PNG with absolute transparency, I know IE6 doesn't support it but with the PNGFIX JavaScript it should work just fine. M. Jama big:interactive 91 Princedale Road Holland Park London W11 4NS Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Direct: +44 (0)20 7313 2262 www.biggroup.co.uk -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Jeffery Sent: 30 October 2007 15:53 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Rounded Courners Your Take What methods do you find best when creating rounded corners and which methods are the most supported? I have been using span tags and absolute positioning. I have also recently started to use the sliding doors method because you can achive nice rounded boxes with some nice effects, even better if you use PNG's. Using the span method i did find a bug in IE 6, the 2 corner span's wouldn't sit flush with the bottom of the containing div, although it displayed fine in every other browser i tested it on and they could be resized fine. It was odd though, because IE 5.x display them perfect, was just IE 6. Lets have your beloved methods then guys. James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Rounded Courners .... Your Take
You can try it out for yourself by changing the images to a solid color
and change the font-size in the body to 1em and test in IE5.5.
See what you come up with.
On Oct 30, 2007 4:46 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I was having a slight issue using span tags, the problem with IE5.x.
I fixed it and
it now displays perfect. I had a problem that when text was made larger in
IE5.x
the 2 corner images to the right would shift one pixel to the left and
it displayed messy.
If i add font-size: 0.9em to the body it fixes it, if i add font-size:
1em the problem is
still there. Not sure why this happens, but would love to know. It is
fixed by the way,
im just curious:
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN
http://w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd;
html lang=en-GB
head
titleRounded Corners Test/title
style type=text/css media=all
html * {margin:0; padding:0;}
body {padding: 1em; font-size: .9em}
#news {
position: relative;
background: black;
width: 15em;
color: white;
padding: 1em;}
#news span {
width: 9px; height: 9px;
position: absolute;}
#topLeft {
background: url(images/topLeft.gif) top left
no-repeat;
left: 0; top: 0;}
#topRight {
background: url(images/topRight.gif) top right
no-repeat;
right: 0; top: 0;}
#bottomLeft {
background: url(images/bottomLeft.gif) bottom left
no-repeat;
left: 0; bottom: 0;}
#bottomRight {
background: url(images/bottomRight.gif) bottom
right no-repeat;
right: 0; bottom: 0;}
/style
/head
body
div id=news
span id=topLeft/span
span id=topRight/span
pThis is an example of a rounded corners Div that allows
for expansion/p
pThis is an example of a rounded corners Div that allows
for expansion/p
pThis is an example of a rounded corners Div that allows
for expansion/p
pThis is an example of a rounded corners Div that allows
for expansion/p
span id=bottomLeft/span
span id=bottomRight/span
/div
/body
/html
On Oct 30, 2007 4:18 PM, Mohamed Jama [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Depending on the background, if the corners blue and the background is
white then there is no problem a normal gif would do best but if the
background is gradient or patterned then maybe in Photoshop when saving
for web make sure its gif and set the matte option to a color close
enough to the background color.
Or I just use PNG with absolute transparency, I know IE6 doesn't support
it but with the PNGFIX JavaScript it should work just fine.
M. Jama
big:interactive
91 Princedale Road
Holland Park
London W11 4NS
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Direct: +44 (0)20 7313 2262
www.biggroup.co.uk
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of James Jeffery
Sent: 30 October 2007 15:53
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Rounded Courners Your Take
What methods do you find best when creating rounded corners and
which methods are the most supported?
I have been using span tags and absolute positioning. I have also
recently started to use the sliding doors method because you can
achive nice rounded boxes with some nice effects, even better if
you use PNG's.
Using the span method i did find a bug in IE 6, the 2 corner span's
wouldn't sit flush with the bottom of the containing div, although it
displayed fine in every other browser i tested it on and they could
be resized fine. It was odd though, because IE 5.x display them
perfect, was just IE 6.
Lets have your beloved methods then guys.
James
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Re: [WSG] SilverLight
On 30 Oct 2007, at 16:01, Patrick H. Lauke wrote: I recently spotted it in this article http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2007/05/11/ silverlight_programming_q_and_a/ Quoting Keith Smith, product manager of the user experience platform and tools team at Microsoft covering Silverlight as well as WPF and tools like the new Expression Studio: The pattern we follow with Ajax is to make smart decisions on behalf of the designer and developer When Microsoft say that kind of thing, my heart grows heavy with trepidation... remember all the grief they've caused in the past with stuff like determining how to display content by using assorted heuristics rather than just obeying the Content-Type HTTP header? All inspired by the idea that MS know what you really meant, and can make smart decisions on your behalf, presumably because you can't make them yourself. I'm reminded of a blog comment I read earlier today by a chap called barbecuesteve concerning the just-announced null characters exploit: This really illustrates my fundamental problem with Microsoft’s attitude. “The data you have is not accurate. Here, let me fix it for you.” As if Microsoft is the sole determiner of what constitutes accurate data and what doesn’t. http://blog.didierstevens.com/2007/10/23/ a000n-o000l00d00-0i000e000-00t0ric000k/#comment-16560 Regards, Nick. -- Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Rounded Courners .... Your Take
I was having a slight issue using span tags, the problem with IE5.x.
I fixed it and
it now displays perfect. I had a problem that when text was made larger in IE5.x
the 2 corner images to the right would shift one pixel to the left and
it displayed messy.
If i add font-size: 0.9em to the body it fixes it, if i add font-size:
1em the problem is
still there. Not sure why this happens, but would love to know. It is
fixed by the way,
im just curious:
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN
http://w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd;
html lang=en-GB
head
titleRounded Corners Test/title
style type=text/css media=all
html * {margin:0; padding:0;}
body {padding: 1em; font-size: .9em}
#news {
position: relative;
background: black;
width: 15em;
color: white;
padding: 1em;}
#news span {
width: 9px; height: 9px;
position: absolute;}
#topLeft {
background: url(images/topLeft.gif) top left
no-repeat;
left: 0; top: 0;}
#topRight {
background: url(images/topRight.gif) top right
no-repeat;
right: 0; top: 0;}
#bottomLeft {
background: url(images/bottomLeft.gif) bottom left
no-repeat;
left: 0; bottom: 0;}
#bottomRight {
background: url(images/bottomRight.gif) bottom right
no-repeat;
right: 0; bottom: 0;}
/style
/head
body
div id=news
span id=topLeft/span
span id=topRight/span
pThis is an example of a rounded corners Div that allows for
expansion/p
pThis is an example of a rounded corners Div that allows for
expansion/p
pThis is an example of a rounded corners Div that allows for
expansion/p
pThis is an example of a rounded corners Div that allows for
expansion/p
span id=bottomLeft/span
span id=bottomRight/span
/div
/body
/html
On Oct 30, 2007 4:18 PM, Mohamed Jama [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Depending on the background, if the corners blue and the background is
white then there is no problem a normal gif would do best but if the
background is gradient or patterned then maybe in Photoshop when saving
for web make sure its gif and set the matte option to a color close
enough to the background color.
Or I just use PNG with absolute transparency, I know IE6 doesn't support
it but with the PNGFIX JavaScript it should work just fine.
M. Jama
big:interactive
91 Princedale Road
Holland Park
London W11 4NS
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Direct: +44 (0)20 7313 2262
www.biggroup.co.uk
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of James Jeffery
Sent: 30 October 2007 15:53
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Rounded Courners Your Take
What methods do you find best when creating rounded corners and
which methods are the most supported?
I have been using span tags and absolute positioning. I have also
recently started to use the sliding doors method because you can
achive nice rounded boxes with some nice effects, even better if
you use PNG's.
Using the span method i did find a bug in IE 6, the 2 corner span's
wouldn't sit flush with the bottom of the containing div, although it
displayed fine in every other browser i tested it on and they could
be resized fine. It was odd though, because IE 5.x display them
perfect, was just IE 6.
Lets have your beloved methods then guys.
James
***
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RE: [WSG] SilverLight
/* And where we can't make a decision on your behalf, we offer a quick way to set up accessibility through our tools. */ Concerning AJAX and Silverlight - I only pray that their interpretation ARIA is not just another opera solo. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke Sent: Tuesday, 30 October, 2007 18:01 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] SilverLight Quoting Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 10/30/07, Derek Featherstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can you show us where they claim it is much easier for screen readers, search spiders to work with? THAT is what I want to see... I recently spotted it in this article http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2007/05/11/silverlight_programming_q_and_a/ Quoting Keith Smith, product manager of the user experience platform and tools team at Microsoft covering Silverlight as well as WPF and tools like the new Expression Studio: Accessibility and localisation are areas where we think we have some very good solutions and tools support. Silverlight will adhere to all those standards and support screen readers but the most important thing is how easy it is for developers to discover [the accessibility options]. The pattern we follow with Ajax is to make smart decisions on behalf of the designer and developer ? so if you set the caption on a button we make sure that caption is copied automatically to the appropriate metadata. And where we can't make a decision on your behalf, we offer a quick way to set up accessibility through our tools. We have an accessibility checker for ASP.NET and Ajax and we want to do the same thing for Silverlight. But where we can put the processing burden on the computer, we want to do that. I'll believe it when I see it, to be honest. P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re*dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ Take it to the streets ... join the WaSP Street Team http://streetteam.webstandards.org/ __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How z-index works
That's weird, it's working today. :? On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:57:05 +1000, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip http://tjkdesign.com/articles/z-index/teach_yourself_how_elements_stack.asp OK, this is obviously not an isolated occurrence anymore. I've tried to look at your site 3 times now in the last couple of weeks Thierry and can never get it to load. Hi John. Sorry to hear that, but I don't know what to say as nobody else has reported having problems :( -- Tyssen Design www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] card sort with disabled users (OT?)
hi Andreas On 30/10/2007, Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am working on a website that targets people with many different disabilities. So that will include users with visual, mental, hearing or physical impairments. The website has got quite a large amount of content, so in a normal situation I would conduct a card sort to get feedback from all target groups as to how to structure the information. But I am wrecking my brain at the moment how to best put this into practice with the group of users I have. Using normal index cards for the card sort probably won't be a good idea in particular for some of the visually disabled users. Also normally I would let the users create new cards/categories by writing on the index cards, but this could be a problem with some of the physically disabled users. Maybe somebody has got a different suggestion on how to achieve this? Thanks heaps. Andreas. I think you probably need to work with individual groups in a way that is appropriate for them, rather than trying to find one way to do it all. For example, unless you transpose labels into braille (for the blind users who read Braille) you'll probably need to read out the cards and write down the answers. Obviously this wouldn't be appropriate for the deaf users. For the deaf participants, this actually requires other considerations. I would ask them to read the cards and write the labels themselves. But you really need to engage an interpreter if you're planning on working with deaf participants. And I want to stress here that it's really essential that if you're including deaf users in card sorting activities (which focuses on content and navigation labelling etc.) you remember that Auslan and English are two unique languages. most likely English will be their second language. So in essence this is an ESL consideration as well. Please don't rely on lip reading (I don't mean to infer that you would Andreas). I have to say personally I find that really very offensive and dismissive of the participants needs. And on a technical point, you will not know how much information the participant has clearly understood e.g. when briefing/ giving instructions for the session. This goes for providing a written explanation as well. Users with physical disabilities may require other support, such as writing, but this will depend on the individual and the assistive technology they're using. Given your work you're probably already aware of this, but I thought it might be useful info for others on the list. I understand your concerns about your time and effort, but for the sake of data integrity, if you have to establish different ways of working with each profile to get accurate results, then there really isn't a choice. Have a look at this online card sorting tool, I don't really think it's going to help you much in this situation, but it is a good tool and there may be something you can use it for, even if it makes recording participant responses easier for you. http://www.optimalsort.com/pages/default.html All the best! It sounds like a really interesting project... lisa -- Lisa Herrod Web Usability: User Experience Research, Consulting and Training Business: http://www.Scenarioseven.com.au Blog: http://www.Scenariogirl.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] How z-index works
John Faulds wrote: That's weird, it's working today. :? Sounds like transient DNS proxy issues to me *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Rounded Courners .... Your Take
Hi James I got so sick of doing rounded corners and having to open a graphics program to change them (Hey, I'm a developer) when the design changed that I wrote PHP script using Imagick2.0 that draws the quadrants using the correct foreground colour, background color (or transparent), border size, rotation and border width. Now instead of opening up inkscape it's just a call to a PHP script like: background-image: url(corner.png.php?fgc=cccbs=1bgc=000bc=fffr=90); which is a grey corner with a 1px white border and black background. Of course if the background is transparent it breaks badly in IE6, but there are workarounds for that. Then I use absolute positioning within a relative position box to place the corners in the right places. I'm so Web 0.9rc2 that I don't have a blog - If I get my act together I'll post a script to one somewhere. Interestingly enough, Opera 9.5 and hopefully Firefox 3 will support SVG backgrounds which means you can have resizable background images that change size as the containing box changes size. And theSVG is just XML so it can easily be generated programmatically. http://my.opera.com/Fyrd/blog/2007/09/07/svg-multiple-images-and-rounded-corners http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/new-development-techniques-using-opera-k/ Cheers James On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 02:53:03 am James Jeffery wrote: What methods do you find best when creating rounded corners and which methods are the most supported? I have been using span tags and absolute positioning. I have also recently started to use the sliding doors method because you can achive nice rounded boxes with some nice effects, even better if you use PNG's. Using the span method i did find a bug in IE 6, the 2 corner span's wouldn't sit flush with the bottom of the containing div, although it displayed fine in every other browser i tested it on and they could be resized fine. It was odd though, because IE 5.x display them perfect, was just IE 6. Lets have your beloved methods then guys. James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Rounded Courners .... Your Take
May be i'm missing something, but what's wrong with wrapping divs?
Much more stable approach...
smth like this:
div class=wr1div class=wr2div class=wr3div class=wr4
[content]
/div/div/div/div
.wr1{background:url(corner-top-left.png)}
...
On 10/30/07, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You can try it out for yourself by changing the images to a solid color
and change the font-size in the body to 1em and test in IE5.5.
See what you come up with.
On Oct 30, 2007 4:46 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I was having a slight issue using span tags, the problem with IE5.x.
I fixed it and
it now displays perfect. I had a problem that when text was made larger in
IE5.x
the 2 corner images to the right would shift one pixel to the left and
it displayed messy.
If i add font-size: 0.9em to the body it fixes it, if i add font-size:
1em the problem is
still there. Not sure why this happens, but would love to know. It is
fixed by the way,
im just curious:
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN
http://w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd;
html lang=en-GB
head
titleRounded Corners Test/title
style type=text/css media=all
html * {margin:0; padding:0;}
body {padding: 1em; font-size: .9em}
#news {
position: relative;
background: black;
width: 15em;
color: white;
padding: 1em;}
#news span {
width: 9px; height: 9px;
position: absolute;}
#topLeft {
background: url(images/topLeft.gif) top left
no-repeat;
left: 0; top: 0;}
#topRight {
background: url(images/topRight.gif) top right
no-repeat;
right: 0; top: 0;}
#bottomLeft {
background: url(images/bottomLeft.gif) bottom
left no-repeat;
left: 0; bottom: 0;}
#bottomRight {
background: url(images/bottomRight.gif) bottom
right no-repeat;
right: 0; bottom: 0;}
/style
/head
body
div id=news
span id=topLeft/span
span id=topRight/span
pThis is an example of a rounded corners Div that allows
for expansion/p
pThis is an example of a rounded corners Div that allows
for expansion/p
pThis is an example of a rounded corners Div that allows
for expansion/p
pThis is an example of a rounded corners Div that allows
for expansion/p
span id=bottomLeft/span
span id=bottomRight/span
/div
/body
/html
On Oct 30, 2007 4:18 PM, Mohamed Jama [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Depending on the background, if the corners blue and the background is
white then there is no problem a normal gif would do best but if the
background is gradient or patterned then maybe in Photoshop when saving
for web make sure its gif and set the matte option to a color close
enough to the background color.
Or I just use PNG with absolute transparency, I know IE6 doesn't support
it but with the PNGFIX JavaScript it should work just fine.
M. Jama
big:interactive
91 Princedale Road
Holland Park
London W11 4NS
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Direct: +44 (0)20 7313 2262
www.biggroup.co.uk
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of James Jeffery
Sent: 30 October 2007 15:53
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Rounded Courners Your Take
What methods do you find best when creating rounded corners and
which methods are the most supported?
I have been using span tags and absolute positioning. I have also
recently started to use the sliding doors method because you can
achive nice rounded boxes with some nice effects, even better if
you use PNG's.
Using the span method i did find a bug in IE 6, the 2 corner span's
wouldn't sit flush with the bottom of the containing div, although it
displayed fine in every other browser i tested it on and they could
be resized fine. It was odd though, because IE 5.x display them
perfect, was just IE 6.
Lets have your beloved methods then guys.
James
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [WSG] Rounded Courners .... Your Take
Nothing wrong with it to my knowledge. I find semantic wise, both are
invalid, this is no fault of the designer, its a limitation to do with CSS.
I have never really used the div method.
On Oct 30, 2007 11:39 PM, akella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
May be i'm missing something, but what's wrong with wrapping divs?
Much more stable approach...
smth like this:
div class=wr1div class=wr2div class=wr3div class=wr4
[content]
/div/div/div/div
.wr1{background:url(corner-top-left.png)}
...
On 10/30/07, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You can try it out for yourself by changing the images to a solid color
and change the font-size in the body to 1em and test in IE5.5.
See what you come up with.
On Oct 30, 2007 4:46 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I was having a slight issue using span tags, the problem with IE5.x.
I fixed it and
it now displays perfect. I had a problem that when text was made larger
in IE5.x
the 2 corner images to the right would shift one pixel to the left and
it displayed messy.
If i add font-size: 0.9em to the body it fixes it, if i add font-size:
1em the problem is
still there. Not sure why this happens, but would love to know. It is
fixed by the way,
im just curious:
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN
http://w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd;
html lang=en-GB
head
titleRounded Corners Test/title
style type=text/css media=all
html * {margin:0; padding:0;}
body {padding: 1em; font-size: .9em}
#news {
position: relative;
background: black;
width: 15em;
color: white;
padding: 1em;}
#news span {
width: 9px; height: 9px;
position: absolute;}
#topLeft {
background: url(images/topLeft.gif) top left
no-repeat;
left: 0; top: 0;}
#topRight {
background: url(images/topRight.gif) top right
no-repeat;
right: 0; top: 0;}
#bottomLeft {
background: url(images/bottomLeft.gif) bottom
left no-repeat;
left: 0; bottom: 0;}
#bottomRight {
background: url(images/bottomRight.gif) bottom
right no-repeat;
right: 0; bottom: 0;}
/style
/head
body
div id=news
span id=topLeft/span
span id=topRight/span
pThis is an example of a rounded corners Div that
allows for expansion/p
pThis is an example of a rounded corners Div that
allows for expansion/p
pThis is an example of a rounded corners Div that
allows for expansion/p
pThis is an example of a rounded corners Div that
allows for expansion/p
span id=bottomLeft/span
span id=bottomRight/span
/div
/body
/html
On Oct 30, 2007 4:18 PM, Mohamed Jama [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Depending on the background, if the corners blue and the background is
white then there is no problem a normal gif would do best but if the
background is gradient or patterned then maybe in Photoshop when saving
for web make sure its gif and set the matte option to a color close
enough to the background color.
Or I just use PNG with absolute transparency, I know IE6 doesn't support
it but with the PNGFIX JavaScript it should work just fine.
M. Jama
big:interactive
91 Princedale Road
Holland Park
London W11 4NS
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Direct: +44 (0)20 7313 2262
www.biggroup.co.uk
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of James Jeffery
Sent: 30 October 2007 15:53
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Rounded Courners Your Take
What methods do you find best when creating rounded corners and
which methods are the most supported?
I have been using span tags and absolute positioning. I have also
recently started to use the sliding doors method because you can
achive nice rounded boxes with some nice effects, even better if
you use PNG's.
Using the span method i did find a bug in IE 6, the 2 corner span's
wouldn't sit flush with the bottom of the containing div, although it
displayed fine in every other browser i tested it on and they could
be resized fine. It was odd though, because IE
[WSG] PHI and YUI Grids
Does the Yahoo Grid framework have any relation to the golden rule (ie: Divine Proportion)? I am slowly learning to create aesthetically pleasing web designs, although i would never us the Yahoo framework does it have any relation? Or is YUI Grid system just a way to place blocks on the page? Cheer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] card sort with disabled users (OT?)
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of lisa herrod I think you probably need to work with individual groups in a way that is appropriate for them, rather than trying to find one way to do it all. For example, unless you transpose labels into braille (for the blind users who read Braille) you'll probably need to read out the cards and write down the answers. Obviously this wouldn't be appropriate for the deaf users. Yeah, I was afraid that it would come down to this. It will require a lot more planning beforehand, because I will need to find out what exact disabilities each of the users have and need to consider individual limitations. And I won't be able to just chuck all people with visual disabilities into one pot. Reading out cards will be very hard. I mean, card sort is such a visual tool, I personally would never want to try to do a card sort without constantly seeing the words in front of me. Users with hearing disabilities will be easier in that way. Physical disabilities could be difficult depending on the user. But as long as they can express which card to move into which group or how they want to label groups its fine. I just need to ensure that the cards are lying in a position where the user can easily see them. Some users may have difficulties looking down onto a flat table all the time. Phhh... this is certainly going to be a tough one. Have a look at this online card sorting tool, I don't really think it's going to help you much in this situation, but it is a good tool and there may be something you can use it for, even if it makes recording participant responses easier for you. http://www.optimalsort.com/pages/default.html That's not bad! As you said, it probably won't work for this situation, but it's good to know there's an online card sort tool that I could use. Might be handy in some situations. Thanks for the reply. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Rounded Courners .... Your Take
Now instead of opening up inkscape it's just a call to a PHP script like: background-image: url(corner.png.php?fgc=cccbs=1bgc=000bc=fffr=90); So for everytime the css file is called, your script has to create an image? Has this impacted on your sites / servers performance any? Have you considered a caching solution - where the new image is generated then stored static until it needs to change again? Also, there's always things like this using the Dom JavaScript: http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200505/transparent_custom_corners_and_borders/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids
You mean the 'Golden Mean'? Not that I can see - grids offers a variety of column widths and nesting. You do a large variety of things with it and column widths don't appear to be golden mean base, but based on Yahoo's enormous experience . I am slowly learning to create aesthetically pleasing web designs, although i would never use the Yahoo framework As someone who is getting ready to implement grids for a large government project, may I ask why not? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids
Its a personal reason. I like to do everything from design, to build, to backend scripting to deploying. I find its less hassle to create my own layouts for the job i am working on. Im the same with JS and PHP, even though there are pre compiled scripts out there, i would rather create my own, so at least when i can't find the answer to a problem i will have the experience to create it. There are alot of aids out there, but i am a man of dry grass and 2 flints, i will create a fire with the bare essentials. I worked for a company, and many of the developers were questioning the use of YUI Grids, the boss said he took to much pride in his company to base his developments around someone else's creation, i feel that was a bit strong, but there are alot of people that don't and won't use them. On Oct 31, 2007 12:18 AM, Paul Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You mean the 'Golden Mean'? Not that I can see - grids offers a variety of column widths and nesting. You do a large variety of things with it and column widths don't appear to be golden mean base, but based on Yahoo's enormous experience . I am slowly learning to create aesthetically pleasing web designs, although i would never use the Yahoo framework As someone who is getting ready to implement grids for a large government project, may I ask why not? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
Google is not about to ban you, however if this is used in combination with other known black hat tactics, then you will. Google will check your CSS but once again, if you are using this technique to excess, then you should be worried. There was talk via a different email thread, and someone raised the same SEO concern, people have been using hidden and the CSS off-page described regularly for accessibility, and there haven't been any stories to date on those using these techniques legitimately and been banned by a search engine. I don't see any evidence in the server logs here of googlebot even looking at css files (despite thousands of hits by googlebot on pages that return html), however I am sure that if someone complained or someone at google comes across suspicious or spammy data they will manually check on it. So I don't think legitimate use would be a problem. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] html css review wanted
Got to build new template for work, so if you could look at: http://nickcowie.com/other/template/index.html And do a critical review of the HTML and CSS (though ignore the poor structure, lack of annotations and a dodgy bit of ie only code to centre the ul in the footer) in layout.css (to be fixed) ie could I do it better, did I use some dodgy techniques, is there a way to align the top menu 2nd border with the divider between navigation and content in safari and opera (it works in IE and FF). It is the problems of using ems for on a grid heavy ayout and then having to adjust for single pixel width dividers using negative margins. Known problems The javascript assumes 16px base font size, that is to be fixed. IE5.5 and below box model (also to be fixed) ps does it work in IE7 and Opera for Mac (weird stuff happened but I need to upgrade)? footer in centred will everything else is grid based. Thanks -- Nick Cowie http://nickcowie.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: SilverLight
Hi, It warms my dear heart to see Silverlight talked about in a forum like this! :) I'll help if I may clear up a few things around Silverlight. * Silverlight SEO/Usability - At this point it's primitive, but we are working with folks from around the globe to firm this up some more, when it will be firmed up is something I don't have dates around. Suffice to say it's on the agenda and with US 508 being quite strict, obviously there is a desire to make sure this happens. That being said, given that the XAML has to be well-formed XML this can now lead to some interesting approaches to XLST specific data from XAML to insert your desire here. In that if Usability Engines like JAWS etc wanted to focus on this space, they could practically do a lot of the leg work themselves. Michael and Jeff Wilcox have done some work around getting under the covers of Silverlight XAML / JavaScript and using it for Good instead of Evil (heh). You can find more about this journey here: http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog/archive/2007/10/01/using-web-analytics-with-silverlight.aspx and http://blogs.msdn.com/synergist/archive/2007/10/03/other-silverlight-seo-techniques.aspx * Browsers! - We have compatibility with Safari, Firefox and obviously Internet Explorer. We are working with the Opera folks but no specifics around that, suffice to say last time I spoke with the teams in Redmond it was something they were taking serious (obviously). I use an iMac and debug with it a lot, so how's that for going against the Microsoft grain ;) heh. * Platforms - We work on OSX (Leopard works, but.. like all stuff atm, give it a couple months to really back that statement up), Windows Vista and via the Moonlight project we are obviously looking to branch out in that space. There are some patent issues our legal folks are working through to ensure that it's all smoothed out and what not, but this is a big step for Microsoft in this space and so we are learning as we go via the guidance of the Moonlight team (whom are awesome). * DLR - Check out the DLR if .NET / C# isn't your cup of tea. There are languages popping up all over the shop around writing code to produce Silverlight (ie Bluedragon folks are working on CFML + Silverlight - that's right, writing CFML in client-side... isn't that a ghost busters moment? I.e. don't cross the streams?). It's pretty exciting to see this happen to be openly honest. Let me know if i can help in anyway shape or form as It's not all that bad - yet I'm wearing the Microsoft logo, so i guess I'm biased :) (that being said 9months ago I was a Flex Fanboi, so i can help with some cross-wiring there). -- Scott Barnes (RIA Evangelist) Microsoft Ptyhttp://www.microsoft.com/australia | Blog: http://blogs.msdn.com/msmossyblog | Office: +61 (2) 88179139 | Mobile: 0439-072-184 Twitter: twitter.com/mossybloghttp://twitter.com/mossyblog | MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] P Please consider your environmental responsibility before printing this e-mail *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids
WSGers, We've been using the YUI for a while. We wrote our own variant to support the proportions that our Art Director likes to use, which include the Golden Mean. It's boosted our front end development speed and means we can start getting consitent layout hapenning when we develop HTML prototypes as well. It also gives us a head start when we are browser testing. It was pretty easy to re-write the CSS to support the proportional grids that we want to use. Remember that constraining widths is easy enough, but constraining heights is a real pain if you want the user to be able to resize text. Cheers Paul Paul Minty Director mintleaf studio We design create stylish websites Post: Box 6 108 Flinders Street Melbourne VIC 3000 Level 2 108 Flinders Street Melbourne T. 03 9662 9344 F. 03 9662 9255 M. 0418 307 475 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mintleafstudio.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Bennett Sent: Wednesday, 31 October 2007 11:30 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] PHI and YUI Grids You mean the 'Golden Mean'? Not that I can see - grids offers a variety of column widths and nesting. You do a large variety of things with it and column widths don't appear to be golden mean base, but based on Yahoo's enormous experience . I am slowly learning to create aesthetically pleasing web designs, although i would never use the Yahoo framework As someone who is getting ready to implement grids for a large government project, may I ask why not? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Rounded Courners .... Your Take
I also prefer using the div tags. I think it's as semantically valid as span, which neither of them really are. The idea for a PHP round corners script is a very interesting one as well. I'd be interested in seeing that script. -- Christian Snodgrass Azure Ronin Web Design http://www.arwebdesign.net/ Phone: 859.816.7955 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Re: SilverLight
A lot of sins have to be forgiven :) heh.. I can't give any more on this as I don't enjoy spending time with our legal team. Suffice to say, it's being worked out :) (I know that has to suck as an answer, but insert patience analogy here) heh. Scott / Microsoft. p.s nice youtube! :) (would look better in HD Silverlight hehe). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Cruickshank Sent: Wednesday, 31 October 2007 2:56 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: SilverLight Hi Scott, There are some patent issues our legal folks are working through to ensure that it's all smoothed out and what not, but this is a big step for Microsoft in this space and so we are learning as we go via the guidance of the Moonlight team (whom are awesome). Well Microsoft have been doing IT stuff for a while now so it's, er, a little strange that the patent issues around SilverLight/XAML haven't been resolved yet. 1) For Linux developers, is the plan to release Microsoft's patents over MoonLight under a license comparable to that of HTML/CSS? 2) For Linux distributors, is the plan to be compatible with the Debian patent policy? And what kind of timelines do you think there might be around solving these issues (obviously these things can take a while, so when should I give up hope ;) Thanks :) ps. now this is what's awesome http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=KFoTFXxcrrw .Matthew Cruickshank http://docvert.org/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: SilverLight
Hi Scott, There are some patent issues our legal folks are working through to ensure that it’s all smoothed out and what not, but this is a big step for Microsoft in this space and so we are learning as we go via the guidance of the Moonlight team (whom are awesome). Well Microsoft have been doing IT stuff for a while now so it's, er, a little strange that the patent issues around SilverLight/XAML haven't been resolved yet. 1) For Linux developers, is the plan to release Microsoft's patents over MoonLight under a license comparable to that of HTML/CSS? 2) For Linux distributors, is the plan to be compatible with the Debian patent policy? And what kind of timelines do you think there might be around solving these issues (obviously these things can take a while, so when should I give up hope ;) Thanks :) ps. now this is what's awesome http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=KFoTFXxcrrw .Matthew Cruickshank http://docvert.org/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: [css-d] Box Issue
The technique you're describing is called faux-columns, where you create the column colour for each of the three columns in a one pixel high background image repeating vertically on the container DIV. As for keeping the footer under the columns; set the footer DIV to have the CSS property 'clear: both' which means pull the item underneath any other floated items. Hope that helps! Kit Grose Frontend Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
