[zbmethod] Re: Group A delegation
For no edge permutation, you said you don't like that case? F (RUR'U')*3 F' 1.69 (2.39) 2.13 1.78 2.10 1.82 1.68 1.88 1.59 (1.56) 1.77 1.96 => 1.84 average. For 14 moves, that's 7.6 tps average. It is a very nice case. :) I started cube in hands, timing with stackmat. ~ Bob --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It is H-Orientation with Diagonally swapped corners. > > It is a bit uncharted territory... hence it is not yet numbered. I > was waiting for Chris to finish naming those cases. He told me he'd > do this (all of them) over break. > > > -Doug > > > > > --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > The cases you have listed on that page...what # are they? ie - H1, > H2, > > etc? > > > > ~ Bob > > > > --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den Peereboom > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > I'm aware that I haven't listed all the cases yet but these are > the > > only one > > > on which I've worked on at the moment and they still need to be > > improved. > > > I'll add all the images later tonight so that you can see what's > > left to do > > > with this case (which H case is it ? H2 or something else ?) > > > > > > And for the permutation image (not the 3D cube), do you have some > > sort of > > > program or do you do them yourself in paint or something ? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Gilles. > > > > > > 2005/12/13, Doug Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > > > > > This site seems to be issing some cases: > > > > http://www.belgiancubes.be/zbll/index.html > > > > > > > > There are typically 12 edge cases if you count mirrors and > inverses. > > > > Give timings for these, and write them in trigger notation. > > > > > > > > I typically avoid taking a lead role in things, but since it's > beeen > > > > rather quite and people are itching to do work I'm going to > give > > > > some suggestions. > > > > > > > > Since Jason is working on T5, he could work on improving those > algs > > > > and give us timings. > > > > > > > > Since Chris started work on U2, that is his territory. > > > > > > > > I have yet to get a reply about my L1 algs, I would especially > > > > appriciate it if DanH would give those a look since he asked > about > > > > them a while ago. (Although I'm sure he's busy lately since he > > > > hasn't even posted his L1 list yet, on his site.) > > > > > > > > I am going to post my H1 algs next. > > > > > > > > In general look though the T-Orientation cases and see if > there's a > > > > rather long one that can be beter executed. > > > > > > > > If anyone has other no CP algs (that are possiblity better > than what > > > > we already have), now is a good time to post them. I would > > > > especially like revised T1 and U1 algs, since those seem to be > the > > > > slowest no CP cases..., for me at least. > > > > > > > > If any of you want to work on unexplored territory, claim it > first > > > > by posting here so that we don't have people working on the > > > > identical thing. > > > > > > > > Collaborate, Divide and Conquer! > > > > > > > > > > > > -Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den Peereboom > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > As you are the only one who has had the leading position, > > > > > could you describe what it consists in ? > > > > > > > > > > Another possibility is giving some "homework" to everyone > for 3 > > > > weeks :p > > > > > If Doug can get us a big list of raw algorithms (so we need > to > > > > provide him a > > > > > txt file with the cases), I'm sure we could have something > to do > > > > for that > > > > > period. > > > > > > > > > > What do you think ? > > > > > > > > > > Concerning my case, I'll have mid-terms exams in January
[zbmethod] Re: Group A delegation
The cases you have listed on that page...what # are they? ie - H1, H2, etc? ~ Bob --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den Peereboom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm aware that I haven't listed all the cases yet but these are the only one > on which I've worked on at the moment and they still need to be improved. > I'll add all the images later tonight so that you can see what's left to do > with this case (which H case is it ? H2 or something else ?) > > And for the permutation image (not the 3D cube), do you have some sort of > program or do you do them yourself in paint or something ? > > Thanks, > Gilles. > > 2005/12/13, Doug Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > This site seems to be issing some cases: > > http://www.belgiancubes.be/zbll/index.html > > > > There are typically 12 edge cases if you count mirrors and inverses. > > Give timings for these, and write them in trigger notation. > > > > I typically avoid taking a lead role in things, but since it's beeen > > rather quite and people are itching to do work I'm going to give > > some suggestions. > > > > Since Jason is working on T5, he could work on improving those algs > > and give us timings. > > > > Since Chris started work on U2, that is his territory. > > > > I have yet to get a reply about my L1 algs, I would especially > > appriciate it if DanH would give those a look since he asked about > > them a while ago. (Although I'm sure he's busy lately since he > > hasn't even posted his L1 list yet, on his site.) > > > > I am going to post my H1 algs next. > > > > In general look though the T-Orientation cases and see if there's a > > rather long one that can be beter executed. > > > > If anyone has other no CP algs (that are possiblity better than what > > we already have), now is a good time to post them. I would > > especially like revised T1 and U1 algs, since those seem to be the > > slowest no CP cases..., for me at least. > > > > If any of you want to work on unexplored territory, claim it first > > by posting here so that we don't have people working on the > > identical thing. > > > > Collaborate, Divide and Conquer! > > > > > > -Doug > > > > > > > > --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, Gilles van den Peereboom > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > As you are the only one who has had the leading position, > > > could you describe what it consists in ? > > > > > > Another possibility is giving some "homework" to everyone for 3 > > weeks :p > > > If Doug can get us a big list of raw algorithms (so we need to > > provide him a > > > txt file with the cases), I'm sure we could have something to do > > for that > > > period. > > > > > > What do you think ? > > > > > > Concerning my case, I'll have mid-terms exams in January so my > > time will be > > > a bit limited from now on for zb-research. But I can surely find > > at least > > > one hour per day to work on zb. > > > > > > I hope your exams will go well :-) > > > > > > Gilles. > > > > > > NB : I learned the entire VH-F2L today :p (not so hard, I agree. > > mostly > > > intuitive algorithms) > > > > > > 2005/12/13, cmhardw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > > > > > Hey everyone, > > > > > > > > I wanted to ask basically what we wanted to do as a group about > > the > > > > lead position, or group A. I honestly am willing to devote the > > time > > > > to any of the activities in our delegation, but I would love to > > help > > > > direct. I will have the free time after I graduate (I really do > > cube > > > > in all of my free time, so it won't be a big change). > > > > > > > > However, there is an issue. On Dec. 19 I am leaving for > > California to > > > > visit my Grandparents and won't be back until Jan. 6. During > > this > > > > time I won't have any access to the internet whatsoever. > > > > > > > > In this formative period of team [zb] I don't think it would be > > good > > > > for me to delegate, simply since I will be absent for roughly > > three > > > > weeks very shortly. I will take my laptop with me and analyze > > cases > > > > and optimize algs while I am gone though. > > > > > > > > My question is this, what should we do about the lead position? > > I > > > > would love to really be a part of this group and help each of the > > > > groups and try to do all of the group activities we need, but the > > > > truth is that I will be absent for three weeks very soon. > > > > > > > > So we need a lead, or preferably more than one in case the other > > is > > > > absent. > > > > > > > > I am more than willing to dedicate my time to team [zb] and > > would love > > > > to do so, but I simply cannot do that until after Jan. 6 next > > year. > > > > > > > > Who else wants to take over in a lead position and make sure the > > group > > > > is directed in a good direction? > > > > > > > > This organization is so awesome, and I am so excited to see us > > coming > > > > together into a real research team. I hope everyone has a good > > > > holiday, and in my free time be
[zbmethod] Re: Ok... let's get serious about this method of ours
--- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > What do you mean by double-Sune? Are you refering to the H1 cases? I > already have those. The one where there is no EP is my slowest, feel > free to work on that one, it's the only non-trivial one there I > think, the ohter's are easy/fast. Work on the other H-Orientation > cases, I don't think many people have looked at those yet. You don't mean F (RUR'U')*3 F', do you? ~ Bob Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/u8TY5A/tzNLAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Ok... let's get serious about this method of ours
I am still waiting for my N-perm to be sub-3. That would be one orienation done for me. ;) ~ Bob --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "cmhardw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hey everyone, > > I've been talking to Richard a lot lately, and he really inspired me > about one thing. > > I think ZBLL can be extremely fast, but we have to set a higher > standard for it. We have to set the standard of sub-3 average for > every alg (just straight execution) and that would make the LL have a > sub-4 solve time with recognition also (in theory). > > Well I don't think even a few people could do this in a short amount > of time, so here is the suggestion. ZB doesn't have much popularity > yet, since it isn't fast. Sadly it will take that to get many to > notice. Also, why learn ZBLL quickly now and redo 300 algs later when > it does gain some popularity after people have learned it, when we can > all work on generating algs (with the sub-3 requirement) and make it > fast now? > > It would work like this, learn ZBLL in any way you want, and generate > and save all algs for that path. If you are learning algs that have > already been generated, then learn the algs you want from a webpage or > from someone, but generate other cases only to make them fast, learn > them later. > > We could each take a COLL case and generate algs and spend a few weeks > or maybe a month on optimizing each case to sub-3. > > After that we can meet here and post the best ones on a central > website (perhaps Ron will lend us a space in the Algs section). > > I think if we make ZBLL fast right from the start, then we can learn > the fastest ZBLL right from the start and have a chance for the method > to be fast. > > I know a lot of you guys are very serious about the method, so I ask: > who is willing to help me make a sub-3 requirement for ZBLL a reality? > I can start with my slowest T algs (some are already easily sub-3) > and work from there. Again you don't have to learn the algs you > generate, learn however you want, but spend time each day helping > optimize the ZBLL. > > I think with all of us it will still not be much man power, but it > will be enough to make a start. > > I will now require sub-3 for all algs, and try to spend a few weeks to > 1 month on each COLL case to really get this right. I will stop > learning until my T and U algs are fully sub-3 optimized. > > Also if sub-3 is just not possible, let's find the true limit, and get > under that. > > ZB can still have a change, but we have to have a higher standard than > sub-4. I'm already convinced that a sub-4 ZBLL stands no change > whatsoever against Fridrich. > > I'm going to start on my worst T cases and go from there. Is anyone > else interested? Let me know, I would really love for all of us to > really take this method seriously (we already do, but I think a new > level of dedication will be required for ZB to be fast) and move this > method into being a top level method? > > Chris > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Motivation and balance
--- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Orienting corners has the most cases by a long shot. I think to learn > how to orient all the corners is 27 possible cases for whichever way > you insert them. Taking that a step further, learning to orient edges > and corners with the last pair is 432 cases, including reflections, > just using case 1 insertions. This is only 126 cases more than ZBF2L. > This reduces the entire last layer to a PLL case. That makes for > 432+21=453 cases for the method, which is just over half of what's > required for ZB, and your PLL cases are all easy to recognize. I think, though, the recognition for this step would be pretty easy in comparison to ZBLL, right? Recognizing only OLL should not be TOO difficult. You should still even be able to determine OLL case by looking only at the LL because the twist on the corners is fixed and you can't have an odd number of flipped edges. Let's ignore reflections because they're trivial. ;) So that is only 216 (assuming your math is right, I didn't double check it) in order to have a 2-look LL. Of course, there is still the 3 or so moves to consider to get into the Case1 situation, but it is *almost* always trivial. Has anybody considered what the recognition would be like for this case? ~ Bob Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Advanced COLL recognition
Hey all, This is for anybody who can recognize using the "sticker" method for COLL. I have been considering switching the way I recognize COLL for the Sune/AntiSune cases. Currently, I put the oriented sticker at the back such that the LL color on the front face is on the opposite side of the oriented corner. I determine the case by looking at the other front sticker, the top sticker of the other front corner, and the top sticker of the third non-oriented corner. It is, however, possible to recognize using only the top face (as long as you know which orientation case you have) how the corners are oriented. However, this requires a bit more advanced thinking. Currently, I just think in terms of whether colors are opposite of each other, the same as each other, or neither. Using the new system of recognition, I would have to determine whether a sticker is opposite another color, left of another color, or right of another color. I suppose it is not all too difficult to decide this and it would help me learn my color scheme a little better, so I am quite inclined to try this new recognition system. This means, though, that I have to relearn all of my Sune/AntiSune recognition. Does anybody else recognize Sune cases by only looking at the top face? Any thoughts about this system? And please, if you recognize only by seeing which corners need to swap, then I tell you in advance that I have tried that system and used it for 3 years didn't like it. :P ~ Bob Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: New poll for zbmethod
Haha, finally somebody new voted with a new opinion! :) ~ Bob --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "cmhardw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I was hoping that non-members could vote too, but it seems that you > have to register for the group first. I guess if the results stay > mostly yes we can just delete the poll, since we know that the members > of this group would for the most part have a positive outlook on the > method lol. Though I do hope we get some member who are still > deciding, or who are not quite sure about ZB, to balance things out. > > Chris > > --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I think the results of this poll will be *slightly* skewed since all > > of us in the group are learning ZB... > > > > ~ Bob > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] New ZBF2L algorithms page!
You may or may not find this helpful, but I hope you do: I have posted all the ZBF2L algorithms I have learned onto this page: http://www.cubewhiz.com/zbf2l/ There may be some mistakes, so if you do find some, please let me know. The pages are not yet fully complete, but I have listed the algs for my cases #1-15 + the four basic cases. I wrote them all in the notation that demonstrates how I perform the algorithm. Let me know if you find this helpful. I also dislike B turns, so I tried to avoid them as much as possible. ;) ~ Bob Team [zb] --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, Brent Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hello guys/gals, >that's interesting. I have been thinking of f2l a bit lately, pertaining to Fridrich f2l and ZBf2l. When I take Fridrich f2l averages just to see how my f2l is, I average around 8-9 seconds- but sometimes I'm "time aware," meaning, aware of the time and going as fast as I can, as I watch piece by piece, which might even be faster than just solving cubes. So this can follow your idea here, Chris. Fridrich f2l, fast times for it (atleast for me) include going as fast as possible, and seeing each piece and looking ahead (and, also, when your hands are "in the mood," which is a completely new idea that sprung to me the other day- i'll discuss further in the email). >Ah, but when I try Zbf2l, I really don't understand _what's_ going on... I go fast, and the algs don't match up with my style (zbf2l algs require, me atleast, to rotate often, turn D and B more often than usual, and is just way wierd). Yeah, for me right now, ZBF2L is way slow, and chaotic... I'll take this "super slow, maybe too slow" idea when I practice more, see if it helps me. >Another thing, that I found the other day. I think it was last Wednesday, I had a good day and was refreshed; I did all my school work and was comfortable with myself- I did an average, and I did a 14.52 NOT ROLLING average. My hands were "warm" I guess, and things seemed "cheery" or something- I really can't explain it. My average of 60 was still sub 15- then I had to go do something so I abandoned it. Then the next day, I did a 17.8 average or something- and my hands just "couldn't move," so to speak. This spreads to the observation at the WC2005- I was racing a lot of people, since I like it :). Like when I was racing Chris/Dan Knights/Joel/Andy C/Ryan Patricio/Stefann/others, I pulled a few 12's and 13's that I wouldn't have usually done- then, my hands were "in the mode" and keeping constant motion during the F2L- which was making hte biggest difference. When I was racing Lars V, too, I was experiencing this- I was surprised by how fast my hands were moving! They > were just "in the mood" and warm, I guess. I dunno, just something to ponder or observe- the mood of your body and mind when you make an average may make the difference. >Anyway, I see the possible doubts for ZB in full. zbF2l is the biggest nightmare, I agree- I'm making like 16+ zb f2l times, which is crazy. But anyway, sorry for hte long email- there is information out there to help us with the F2L times, that goes beyond the algs. > > Human capabilities are much underestimated in the matter, i think. ZB full, when the time comes, will lead to Master times. > but this is only my opinion, and not the "actual" answer. > -Brent M > > cmhardw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I've been doing lots of practicing switching between ZB and Fridrich > today. > > My Fridrich averages have definitely gotten much faster as of late, > and my ZB averages definitely much slower. I think I've found the > reason too. Because of WC2005 I've been thinking in Fridrich mode, > which for F2L for me means go as fast as absolutely possible while > still being able to catch glimpses of pieces I'll need later. I've > found that instead of slow-fast going "not quite break neck fast" for > F2L gives me better averages. > > Well I noticed that this is influencing my ZBF2L. My ZB solves are > always really really bad immediately after switching from a really > good Fridrich average, and then get better. I also tried going what > felt like "too slow" after doing a good Fridrich average and then my > ZB times got back down to my usual good range for ZB. > > So anyway I think that ZBF2L, even when mastered, should definitely be > done slower than Fridrich F2L. I think ZBF2L should be strictly > defined as "the 4 corners and 4 edges of the first layer, the 4 edges > of the middle layer, and the opposite layer stickers of the last layer > edges." I've noticed that by going slower and keeping an idea of how > the LL edge orientations will end up, or even inserting pairs earlier > in the F2L so as to keep my LL edges oriented, helps my times a lot. > > This has me thinking though, obviously since ZBF2L requires more moves > than Fridrich F2L, and by all my experience should be done slower, > that means that ZBLL ha
[zbmethod] Re: ZB influencing Fridrich and/or vice versa?
Hey Chris, I haven't done ANY Fridrich solves in over a month (since WC!) but today at the library I did a few on JNetCube just because I was bored. The first two solves were sub-20! I had to be quiet, too, because I was in the library. Keep in mind I have only one sub-20 average EVER. I feel that learning ZB does improve Fridrich. I have difficulty going back to Fridrich now, though, because my mind has been working purely in the land of ZBF2L, so the most natural thing for me now has been do use ZBF2L on the fourth pair. I will use ZBF2L on the Sunday contest later tonight to see my progress and hold off on using Fridrich until I compete at the Caltech Winter tournament. :) ~ Bob --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "cmhardw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hey everyone, > > I just took some ZB and Fridrich averages and am kind of surprised by > the results. It seems, I'm sure also due to committing fully to > opposite color also, that my Fridrich times have dropped by a second > while my ZB times have remained roughly the same, if not slightly > slower than I used to get. > > Here were the average: > > 1) Done with Fridrich > (12.45), 17.54, 18.82, (19.09), 15.76, 15.16, 18.19, 16.05, 14.95, > 18.19, 15.15, 16.46 = 16.63 > > It's weird that 12.xx was my first solve of the day too, it wasn't a > preplanned "hey I'll start with that 12!" > > 2) Next one with ZB > 18.44, 20.96, (26.09), (13.85), 15.32, 18.02, 18.15, 17.36, 21.40, > 18.02, 19.67, 17.92 = 18.53 > > 3) And next one with Fridrich > 16.82, 14.90, 17.96, 17.52, 15.71, (14.63), (20.35), 16.96, 14.96, > 15.40, 14.75, 18.18 = 16.32 > > 4) And next one again with ZB > 15.54, 16.94, (23.56), 16.92, 18.90, (13.47), 22.43, 21.56, 15.67, > 16.26, 17.50, 17.58 = 17.93 > > (the 13 was a T case ZBLL! Recognition is not always bad!!!) > > I find it weird that the Fridrich averages feel about like my average, > or at least thereabouts. Neither one felt extraordinarily fast to me. > Yet I have definitely been neglecting Fridrich lately for ZB, even > after WC2005. Why does it seem that ZB helps for Fridrich, but not so > much the other way around? My ZB times are actually slower than a few > months ago. I think that could either be a) I know more ZBLL cases > and need to learn to identify them better or b) I have neglected ZB > before WC. > > Anyway I find it very odd that not practicing Fridrich makes me > faster with Fridrich (??). However, practicing with Fridrich is > painfully slow improvement for me by comparison. > > My only theory is that the larger number of algs for ZB will work like > a "weighted bat" when switching back to Fridrich. > > Anyway, this makes me think that even if ZBLL recognition is too much, > that using ZB for practice and Fridrich for competitions will make > your Fridrich better. > > Also, why not use ZB for the first rounds of a competition and hope > for a 1/1944 LL skip? Or maybe a 1/6 super awesome easy ZBLL case. > > I think maybe ZB and Fridrich should coexist and one not replace the > other. I've been doing a lot of thinking about the future of ZB, and > I think that were I in a final round of a big competition, that I > would want a simpler method that is still fast since nerves are > INTENSE. The final round for the WC was very stressful, and I imagine > that trying to use ZB there (except for super easy cases) might only > cause problems. > > But then again maybe a master of the ZB method would identify ZBLL > algs from all angles, AUF only once, etc.. > > Anyway just some thoughts, what does everyone think? > > Chris > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: ZBF2L progress
--- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "cmhardw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > P.P.P.S School is also eating my soul :-( so I know your pain. Seriously. Other than the algs I learned today, I took off an entire week! Frustrating. Only 154 cases to go, though! :) ...and only 3 more weeks of school! ~ Bob Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] ZBF2L progress
I learned another set of cases (I took some time off of learning to re-inforce some things and because I have been lazy). On Chris H's page, the only ZBF2L cases left for me are #9 and 14-23. :) ~ Bob Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: ZBF2L
>From my PLL page: Cycling Three Corners & Three Edges Though these look the trickiest to recognize, they are actually quite simple. I first AUF to solve the 1x1x2 block. Then, I rotate the cube such that the two corners that share the same color on the same face are on the left side. Then, based on whether the block is at the back, front, far part of the right, or close part of the right, I know whether to apply #14, #15, #16, or #17, respectively. 14 2.233 (R2' u' R U') (R U R' u R2) y (R U' R') This is fairly easy to perform at high speeds, even though it looks the most confusing. Algorithms #14-#17 are all performed somewhat similarly because they have some overlapping moves. 15 1.867 (R2' u) (R' U R' U' R u') R2' y' (R' U R) Ron showed me a nice modification to this algorithm to make it flow a lot nicer. It is quite easy to perform with a little practice. 16 2.567 (R' U' R) y (R2' u R' U) (R U' R u' R2')This is the inverse of #15. Note how similar they look. I perform this one almost exactly the same way. 17 2.100 (R U R') y' (R2' u' R U') (R' U R' u R2)This is just the inverse of #14. I execute it very similarly because most of the moves overlap in the same manner. ~ Bob --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > That took me a few reads to understand, so allow me to explain > > another approach to this problem. > > > > I use this method and I believe many other PLL users also do. But > > just to warn you, it is tailored towards a specific choice of G-Perm > > algs. > > > > First, I determine that it is indeed a G-Perm by readily ruling out > > everything else according to the location of "blocks" (c/e pairs). > > > > Assuming it is a G-Perm, I hold "the pair" (typical teamBld lingo > > for the two corners that are correct relative to each other), on the > > left. It is personal preference whether to just re-grip, or pre- > > adjust U and re-grip. > > > > Next (or really, at the same time) find "the block" (there should be > > precisely one and it should be on the r-layers). It can either be on > > the back, "upper right", "lower right", or front. (This is then > > sometimes numbered G1,G2,G3,G4, respectively for teamBld calls.) > > > > If the block is on the back (UB+uBR), I start with the (R2u') > > trigger. > > If it is on the "upper right" (UBR+UR), I start with a (R'U'R) > > trigger. > > If it is on the "lower right" (UR+uFR), I start with a (RUR') > > trigger. > > If the block is on the front (uFR+UF), I start with the (R2'u) > > trigger. > > > > Notice the symmetry in this method. > > > > *Gosh, I do hope you use similar algs... > > > > > > -Doug > > I think I use the same algs, actually. And I understand how to > recognize them apart, but because I learned 4 very similar algs for 4 > very similar cases almost at once, my brain is just having a little > difficulty separating them. Thanks for the helps, guys. > > -Mike > team [zb] > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] ZBF2L
Mike, only 14.71%??? Just knowing all 42 F2L cases is 12.5%! ~ Bob Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Advanced Team BLD
I can't say I blame you. I would do the same, especially in a competition. Have you learned all the ZBF2L for when the C/E pair is trapped in the F2L? This seems like the most logical first extension to the VH system. ~ Bob --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "Dan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > There are, however, cases > > that cannot be done using VH very easily (certain yucky connected > > cases and such), but there are only a few of those. Do you break > them > > up and do VHF2L in those cases, too, Dan? > > > > ~ Bob > > > I have to be honest, if it's one of the yucky cases then I would not > bother using VHF2L - esp in a competition. In practice however, I > would still solve these cases, but it's hard to say whether you gain > any time by doing this. If you hadn't flipped all the edges using > VHF2L, who's to say that you wouldn't have had a tough OLL and an N > perm? And if you did flip the edges in a yucky case, you might end up > with the 1 in 12 skip. Or of course it could go horribly wrong the > other way. All if's and but's! > > Dan :) > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Definition of VH system.
--- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That said, I think I may hold off on learning much more ZBF2L at the > moment, and switch to learning more ZBLL. If my F2L average is 14 or > 15, and my normal average is a little over 20, that means my LL is > taking entirely too long. I think I may start with the rest of the > correctly permuted corner cases for each orientation, starting with > the L case (because I already know a few of those). 5-6 seconds for LL isn't bad. I am pretty sure mine isn't much faster than that. :) ~ Bob Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/u8TY5A/tzNLAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Advanced Team BLD
--- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just a thought, but what about identifying them as a PLL with a > certain corner orientation? Ewww! I use block recognition for PLL. If I recognize the PLL of a non-all-oriented state, forget about it. I would need some sort of new system. I haven't tried Dan's system yet, though, because I don't use ZBLL yet. ;) > Actually, right now I use VHF2L and a few extra tricks, and I'm > getting better at getting OLL skips by adjusting where the pair is > before inserting after edge orienting. The odds without this are > about 3.7%, but I think I've doubled it to 7.4%, and I'm working on > another set of easy cases to get it up to 10.1%. The only real > problem with this is that some of my PLL's are very slow. So work on them! There are only 21 PLLs! I have only 4 that take me over 2.5 seconds now, and two of those are the damn N-perm. :( ~ Bob Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 1.2 million kids a year are victims of human trafficking. Stop slavery. http://us.click.yahoo.com/WpTY2A/izNLAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Definition of VH system.
It says this right on the page: "After the "pair-up" stage, there are only 32 possible configurations of the pair and the LL edge-orientation. These are broken down into 2 groups of 16 cases, 1 group of connected pairs, and 1 group of seperated pairs. So if you know just 32 little tricks, you can almost always flip the LL edges to your advantage after the F2L. If you are unlucky you will have a case for which your algorithm isn't a simple pair up and insert, and in these cases it is very awkward to do anything about it. That is where learning specialised algorithms has a big advantage." Also, "almost always" is in bold print. ;) ~ Bob --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, David Barr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > That page doesn't include the "pair up" maneuvers that it makes > reference to. For example on these F2L algorithms (taken from > Jessica's website), what are the "pair up" maneuvers that pair up the > pieces on the last layer: > > 1) R2 D2 R D R' D R D2 R > 3) R' D R' D' B' D B R2 > 5a) [D2] R' D B' D' B D' R (I guess that RUR'U'RUR'U' would work) > 15) [D2] R2 D2 R D R' D R2 > > Is there another page that has the algs I'm looking for? Or, would VH > solvers revert to standard CFOP when this is the last pair? > > David > > On 11/29/05, Christophe Thiriot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Try this one : > > > > http://www.necrophagous.co.uk/cubestation/f2l/f2ladvanced-influencingLLvh.php > > > > Christophe > > > > > > > > David Barr a écrit : > > > > > Is there a web page (or list of algorithms) for this step? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Appel audio GRATUIT partout dans le monde avec le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger > > Téléchargez cette version sur http://fr.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > > > Visit your group "zbmethod" on the web. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> AIDS in India: A "lurking bomb." Click and help stop AIDS now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/VpTY2A/lzNLAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Advanced Team BLD
--- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "Dan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > you also get OLL skips with VHF2L, although I don't know if one is > better for it over the other, maybe Chris would calculate it for us :) Shouldn't it also be 1/27? As long as you are always ending with all correctly oriented edges, since you are not doing anything special with the corners, it should be the same. There are, however, cases that cannot be done using VH very easily (certain yucky connected cases and such), but there are only a few of those. Do you break them up and do VHF2L in those cases, too, Dan? ~ Bob Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Advanced Team BLD
Hey Chris, I was wondering what your opinion would be for an "advanced" Team BLD technique. It would be based around ZB. The first 3 pairs would be the same. Then for the 4th pair, for example, instead of C3, you could say C3 bad front, to indicate that all edges are flipped correctly except the front one. This would give a ZBF2L with almost no added cost (since the solves are longer, the small fraction of added recognition becomes less significant). Then you can call COLL for the next step. What I'm ultimately curious about, is if it would be possible to assign a simple system that you could use to distinguish among any case and easily decide what algorithm to use for full ZB. Any thoughts? ~ Bob Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Weird dream
Hey all... I actually had this weird dream in which somebody suggested to me that I slow down because I'm learning too much too fast and that my times will slow down too much if I continue to learn. I thought this was very very strange, but I am going to keep on learning anyway. ;) ~ Bob Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: A database
For the VHF2L column, that is knowing the 32 "tricks" on Dan Harris' site. This is some sort of intermediate for ZBF2L. ~ Bob --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "cmhardw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I also didn't know what to do about the VHF2L column, as I never > really learned exactly how it works. I just put 0%, since I figure if > I don't even know how exactly one uses it, then I don't know it. > > I guess I should change my ZBLL %, since that's not really the number > of cases I know, but my chance for a 1 look LL, and even then it's > only an estimate. > > I count the chance for a PLL skip after COLL as a "ZBLL" case, but I > don't count all the cases where I know whether to use the L or R > reflection of an alg on the same RL symmetric COLL case to be more > likely to get a ZBLL solve. > > I can go back through and count the cases I know instead. For this > database are you guys more interested in the percentage of cases > known, or the chance for a 1 look LL? > > Chris > > --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Thanks Bob! > > > > Made me sit down and count up the cases I know w.r.t the > > probabilities. I was ONE case away from knowing more than Chris (at > > least on paper) for ZBLL. I was a bit suprised at the high percentages > > here. So anyhow I decided to learn one more case: "T1 with edges H". > > > > That did the trick and tipped the scale :). > > > > Anything to bring out our competitive natures. > > > > Not sure how VHF2L would be defined so I'm not sure what that column > > really means. > > > > I hope everybody did the case counts with factoring in the > > probabilities of occurance. I think that would be a better comparison > > value. > > > > > > -Doug > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] A database
Hey all, I created a database for people to update their progress in learning ZB by showing how much they know for certain aspects of ZB. ~ Bob Team [zb] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 1.2 million kids a year are victims of human trafficking. Stop slavery. http://us.click.yahoo.com/WpTY2A/izNLAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Motivation and balance
Well, I am still quite new to learning ZB and I have not even begun to learn ZBLL, but for ZBF2L, it seems very very easy. I still get some amnesia, but the ZBF2L I have learned so far (just under 50%) has been quite easy to learn (both learning algs and recognition). I think with enough practice, ZBF2L will be require no more recognition time than Fridrich F2L and as little as .5 second additional time for execution. This would require looking ahead during the 3rd pair, but that is something that should definitely be practiced. As Chris mentioned, this will also require doing ZBF2L into any slot, though I think that is something that will not require an insane amount of additional work (only a crazy amount). :) I won't offer any ideas about ZBLL recognition yet because I haven't begun to think about it, but I do not think it will be required to recognize any case from seeing only two sides to "master" ZB. Maybe to become as proficient in it as possible, it might, but I don't even do this for Fridrich. I know I am not a very fast Fridrich solver, but I have a 5-6 second LL using my recognition system, and it is my 14-15 second F2L that keeps me from getting more sub-20 averages. ;) I have several ideas for ZBLL recognition based on the little that I know, but I haven't done a thorough analysis of cases yet to see if any of them will work. ~ Bob --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "cmhardw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hey everyone, > > I recently have been having some doubts about ZB, which I would prefer > not to be having, but I wanted to bring them up. > > I recently met with Dan Knights and asked him what he thought about > ZB. His response was, for the most part, that it seemed like a good > method but that recognition seems that it would be a big problem. > > I also have noticed that I still delay quite a bit using the block > method for my ZBLL cases. > > I'm at a dilemma. I have been talking with lots of people about > Fridrich after the 2005RWC and have found lots of really useful ways > to drop my average. I even think now that I could get sub-15 with > Fridrich were I to just implement all the changes that I should implement. > > Also though, I really am curious about the potential for ZB. I know > that if I don't try it out myself, knowing all or at least almost all > of it, my curiosity of whether or not it is a worthwhile method would > eventually drive me insane. > > So I'm stuck. I have two methods that both require quite a bit of > work to learn/master and only 24 hours in a day. > > How can we balance these methods? Should I extend my goal to learning > ZB for another year or two and learn at a slower pace, and also > practice Fridrich half the time? > > Also, after talking with Dan I think we really are underestimating the > problem of recognition. I think we need to develop several methods > for recognizing each case. Be able to recognize from any angle, etc. > > I really think just saying "oh and look at the case to reconize" will > not work. We need to turn ZBF2L and ZBLL recognition into a science. > I am going to post pictures of all my algs from all 4 angles for all > my ZBLL algs. I will make a page for recognition at every angle since > I believe just recognizing at one will not work to master this method. > > The more I think about it, the harder this method will be to master, > and the more I want to learn it :-) > > So anyway, I think we have grossly and terribly underestimated the > problem of recognition. I think at a bare minimum we all need to > recognize ZBF2L and ZBLL from any angle, and ZBF2L done in any F2L slot. > > So I'm trying to find a balance, but there is so much to do and so > little free time in a day :-( > > > Any help whatsoever would be appreciated, I just want to stay motivated. > > Chris > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Motivation and balance
--- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Bennett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Again, just some thoughts, but I'm fairly convinced full ZB will be > too difficult to recognize under pressure consistently, at least > without years and years of practice. This is something I agree with. That is why I decided to devote the next few years to learning full ZB. ~ Bob Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: COLL help
:D ~ Bob Team [zb] --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "mgwallisa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Wow. What have I been doing? I know I thought this when I was > first picking algorithms and tried to do just that on a 2x2x2 and it > didn't work. I must have messed up somewhere along the way and have > been ignoring perfectly good algorithms ever since. Thanks, I've > got some things to look over again now. > > Matt > --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Of course, for the 2x2, you would simply ignore slices and > > double-layer turns become normal layer-turns. Hence, when I use > COLL > > for the 2x2, the M' U2 in the beginning is ignored, and I actually > > start with the two matching stickers on the right side instead. :) > > > > ~ Bob > > > > --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "mgwallisa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > Thanks, guys. I'm much better off now. I'm going with > Chris', > > > feels much smoother than what I was doing, though I liked the M > slice > > > turns of Bob's, but I forgot to mention why I want to stay away > from > > > the double layer turns. I'm also using COLL for the 2x2x2. I > know > > > it's not going to be optimal, but it's just a diversion so a > few > > > extra moves isn't too big of deal. Thanks again. > > > > > > Matt > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: COLL help
Of course, for the 2x2, you would simply ignore slices and double-layer turns become normal layer-turns. Hence, when I use COLL for the 2x2, the M' U2 in the beginning is ignored, and I actually start with the two matching stickers on the right side instead. :) ~ Bob --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "mgwallisa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Thanks, guys. I'm much better off now. I'm going with Chris', > feels much smoother than what I was doing, though I liked the M slice > turns of Bob's, but I forgot to mention why I want to stay away from > the double layer turns. I'm also using COLL for the 2x2x2. I know > it's not going to be optimal, but it's just a diversion so a few > extra moves isn't too big of deal. Thanks again. > > Matt > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/u8TY5A/tzNLAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: COLL help
Would you like it better this way? M' U2 L' U2 x' U F2 U F2 U' F2 R ? or M' U2 r' F2 U F2 U F2 U' F2 R (only one double-layer turn) ? ~ Bob > --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "mgwallisa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I could use a better algorithm for the H COLL that switches FR and BR/ > > FL and BL corners. The best one I found is on Ron's page: R' L F2 L' > > F2 U F2 U F2 U' F2 R, which still feels a little akward. I also want > > to stay away from any double layer turns so Bob and Dan's pages are > > out. Are there any other sites with COLL algorithms, or does someone > > have another he likes? Thanks. > > > > Matt > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/u8TY5A/tzNLAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: COLL help
Matt, we actually use the same alg, but I execute it differently. ~ Bob --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "cmhardw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I use R'U2L'RDL2UL2D'B2L done as (R' U2 R) (L' D) (L2 U) (L2 D') B2 L > and I hate that case. Occasionaly it is fast, but I usually cringe > when that one comes up. > > Chris > > --- In zbmethod@yahoogroups.com, "mgwallisa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I could use a better algorithm for the H COLL that switches FR and BR/ > > FL and BL corners. The best one I found is on Ron's page: R' L F2 L' > > F2 U F2 U F2 U' F2 R, which still feels a little akward. I also want > > to stay away from any double layer turns so Bob and Dan's pages are > > out. Are there any other sites with COLL algorithms, or does someone > > have another he likes? Thanks. > > > > Matt > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Sunday Contest
23.50 26.07 21.04 (20.39) 23.55 27.53 28.08 30.84 (32.71) 28.61 28.73 24.79 => 26.27 This was using about 40% ZBF2L and VH/ZBF2L on solves I don't know the ZBF2L alg. Quite a bit of amnesia, still, but 2 seconds faster than last week nonetheless. ~ Bob Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Neat.
I got a LL skip yesterday. 18.75 was the time, but I used ZBF2L. This is only the second time I have ever gotten one of these. Even though the F2L was very slow, it was rewarding to know that I had 8 times larger of a chance of this happening because of what I am practicing. It was fun. :) ~ Bob Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Messing around with transformation solving
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Mike Bennett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Doug Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > The H takes me twice as long as the others. I can do a Z in 1.74 and > > > the 3 cycles in 1.86. The H perm takes me like 3.4s > > > > > > Is there something I need to work on there? > > Yeah. You should get a new alg for the H perm. Try, if you don't use > it already, M'2 U M'2 U2 M'2 U M'2 And do slices the uber cool way with your ring finger ;) ~ Bob Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[zbmethod] Re: Messing around with transformation solving
I particularly like the H-perm. My times for a perfect execution are about as follows: H - <1 second Z - 1.5 seconds 3-cycle < 1.5 second I really like the new Z-perm! :D ~ Bob Team [zb] --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Doug Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The H takes me twice as long as the others. I can do a Z in 1.74 and > the 3 cycles in 1.86. The H perm takes me like 3.4s > > Is there something I need to work on there? > > > -Doug > > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Mike Bennett" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "cmhardw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I think COLL/EPLL *is* okay for the long run. I pay enough > > > attention > > > > > doing COLL that I won't get H perm or Z perm. (By mirroring > or > > > > > inverting algs as needed.) > > > > > > > > > > -Doug > > > > I rather like getting the H perm, because it's my fastest edge PLL > and > > the easiest to recognize and get ready for, since it requires no > > regrip or U adjustment at the end. > > > > However, for certain cases, I do anything I can to avoid the Z > perm, > > seeing as it's so much slower and harder than the rest. How > strange. > > Way back when, that one used to be my favorite... > > > > -Mike > > team [zb] > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/MXMplB/TM ~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zbmethod/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
