Merle,
Zen Buddhism (Japanese), Ch'an Buddhism (Chinese) and Soen Buddhism (Korean)
are all very similar and to the best of my knowledge (which is not that great
in this area) share the same foundations and basic teachings. There are some
differences though. JMJM on this forum is a Ch'an
bill...thank you for the clarification... merle
Merle,
Zen Buddhism (Japanese), Ch'an Buddhism (Chinese) and Soen Buddhism (Korean)
are all very similar and to the best of my knowledge (which is not that great
in this area) share the same foundations and basic teachings. There are some
so self is no self but the other..hence we need to refresh our ideas and
return to the garden of eden... the brazilian rainforest tribe eh?..merle
Merle,
You can read more about what I think about this at:
http://www.billsmart.com/writing/zen/self/self.htm
...Bill!
bill...i appreciate this..thank you..i see i hear i will...merle
Merle,
Your post below is a little hard for me to understand (as are many of your
posts) but I'll try to parse it piece by piece.
Buddha Nature is direct experience BEFORE your thinking kicks in and creates
dualism like
On 10/12/2012 4:16 PM, Edgar Owen wrote:
My sole intent is to correct what I see as incorrect ideas about Zen,
no matter what the source...
The only difference, is I have no intention for others to do anything
other than realize this for themselves. All else is this illusion you
define
Kris,
BTW, The Great Cry Followed by a Great Laugh is a figure, or theme, in Ch'an
practice, mentioned around the periphery. Probably also in Zen. May all
beings have this!
I may be wrong, but I think only Human (beings) CRY. Or, especially, SOB: but
almost every animal's eye's water.
That an individual realizes Zen, that some one attains something, is
only a way of thinking about/expressing this. Realizing this, is Zen.
Zen is realization. Realization is Zen. Same. Suchness. Nothing is
realized that was never not so. Ordinary mind seen as Buddha mind. Too
simple to
On 10/12/2012 4:31 PM, Joe wrote:
Get over it!
Mountain surround the desert.
KG
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
Edgar,
This reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from STILL LIFE WITH WOODPECKER by
Tom Robbins:
There are two kinds of people in this world: Those who believe there are two
kinds of people in this world and those who are smart enough to know better.
...Bill!
On 10/12/2012 4:30 PM, Edgar
common insight with us the enlightened ones..if you don't cry you
laugh!..jesus...merle
Kris,
BTW, The Great Cry Followed by a Great Laugh is a figure, or theme, in Ch'an
practice, mentioned around the periphery. Probably also in Zen. May all
beings have this!
I may be wrong, but I
Edgar,
Illusions are Forms. Buddha Nature is Emptiness.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
Jim,
Excellent response to Bill pointing out his illusion. You are exactly correct
that both the flower and the theory are forms in the mind, there is no
KG,
The gospel according to KG is 'anything goes'
But anything goes is NOT Zen...
Edgar
On Oct 11, 2012, at 10:30 PM, Kristopher Grey wrote:
On 10/11/2012 7:24 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
How do you know what you are experiencing is reality or illusion if
you don't understand the
KG,
No, there is illusion. But illusion seen as illusion is reality. Only illusion
seen as reality is illusion..
Edgar
On Oct 11, 2012, at 10:39 PM, Kristopher Grey wrote:
Realizing this, there is no illusion.
KG
On 10/11/2012 8:20 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
Bill,
Needs to
That doesn't leave much room for any reality to exist, in fact no room at all!
EDgar
On Oct 12, 2012, at 3:04 AM, Bill! wrote:
Edgar,
Illusions are Forms. Buddha Nature is Emptiness.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
Jim,
Excellent
: Fri, October 12, 2012 7:10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space
That doesn't leave much room for any reality to exist, in fact no room at all!
EDgar
On Oct 12, 2012, at 3:04 AM, Bill! wrote:
Edgar,
Illusions are Forms. Buddha Nature is Emptiness.
...Bill
...@att.net
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, October 12, 2012 7:10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space
That doesn't leave much room for any reality to exist, in fact no room at all!
EDgar
On Oct 12, 2012, at 3:04 AM, Bill! wrote:
Edgar
Another Edgar edit. More marketing copy to peddle his personal brand pf Zen.
KG
On 10/12/2012 7:16 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
KG,
The gospel according to KG is 'anything goes'
But anything goes is NOT Zen...
Edgar
On Oct 11, 2012, at 10:30 PM, Kristopher Grey wrote:
On 10/11/2012 7:24
As happens each time you say no to this.
KG
On 10/12/2012 7:18 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
KG,
No, there is illusion. But illusion seen as illusion is reality. Only
illusion seen as reality is illusion..
Edgar
On Oct 11, 2012, at 10:39 PM, Kristopher Grey wrote:
Realizing this, there is
Edgar,
KG is not all bad. ;-)
In fact, I am beginning to take more and more of a liking to him, Edgar.
(well, at least to develop more of an appreciation; and, a facility to ignore
*some* of the green and rough bits).
I like, too, the cushion of distance -- the fine expanse of Ocean --
On 10/12/2012 2:24 PM, Joe wrote:
the green and rough bits...
are good for the digestion. ;)
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go
Bill!, Edgar,
Reality NEEDS room, if it is really real. But it isn't. So... .
But, My!, how Madison Avenue imprints a person for life, (ME) sheesh:
Fijesen bien, Ustedes:
As the commercial used to run, with the two lovely young-lady Twins:
Certs is a BREATH-mint!
No, Certs is a CANDY-mint!
Joe,
At least you make sense. KG to me just seems mostly like clever comebacks with
little meaning, stream of consciousness expressing nihilism, meaninglessness
and contrariness to everyone else's posts. I haven't seen much Zen substance.
Perhaps you and I can actually take some of his
Joe,
Using an advertisement designed to lie is not a particularly good metaphor for
reality...
Edgar
On Oct 12, 2012, at 3:40 PM, Joe wrote:
Bill!, Edgar,
Reality NEEDS room, if it is really real. But it isn't. So... .
But, My!, how Madison Avenue imprints a person for life, (ME)
K.,
Dat's the only kind. I hope.
Never leave Rome without it.
--Joe / keeping it Personal
Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote:
Another Edgar edit. More marketing copy to peddle his personal brand pf Zen.
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you
K.,
Dat's the only kind. I hope.
Never leave Rome without it.
--Joe / keeping it Personal
Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote:
Another Edgar edit. More marketing copy to peddle his personal brand pf Zen.
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you
Joe and KG,
There is only one Zen. Some realize it and some don't...
Edgar
On Oct 12, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Joe wrote:
K.,
Dat's the only kind. I hope.
Never leave Rome without it.
--Joe / keeping it Personal
Kristopher Grey kris@... wrote:
Another Edgar edit. More marketing
Edgar,
Thank you! You have made my week. And maybe my weekend, too (no, things are
not THAT threadbare, here). ;-)
I'm not only glad to make sense, but glad to know that sense is at least
sometimes made. Am I making sense?
And, again, I am grateful for the Big Blue: the Ocean that is, not
Edgar,
Don't know why I shouldn't steal from the best of them.
That commercial probably cost half a million dollars in 1966!
--Joe / the exploiter
PS But the mint WAS both a pretty palatable candy, AND a breath-mint designed
to make you confident among the opposite sex; for example, my
Edgar,
Yada-yada. My tongue sometimes flaps reflexively.
What I mean is that Zen is Human.
If it is not personal, it is abstract. If it is abstract, it is academic.
That's not to damn it!
But Zen, when it is a Human facet, is not abstract, nor academic.
Is Zen something-about the
Edgar,
I can go part way with you on this post of yours, and this post gives me the
opportunity to address another misunderstanding you seem to continually have of
my understanding of illusions vis-a-vis my zen practice.
IME (in my experience) there are three states (actually it's a continuum
Edgar,
REALITY DOESN'T EXIST as I believe you think it does - in a dualistic context
as something separate and apart from 'you'. That is your ILLUSION of reality -
or the FORM of reality.
Reality itself is Just THIS! All the other ideas and projections and
assumptions you've made about Just
:40
Subject: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space
Edgar,
REALITY DOESN'T EXIST as I believe you think it does - in a dualistic context
as something separate and apart from 'you'. That is your ILLUSION of reality -
or the FORM of reality.
Reality itself is Just THIS! All the other
@...
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, October 12, 2012 7:10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space
Â
That doesn't leave much room for any reality to exist, in fact no room at
all!
EDgar
On Oct 12, 2012, at 3:04 AM, Bill! wrote:
Â
Edgar
Joe,
First there is a mountain,
Then there is no mountain,
Then there is.
- traditional Yogic(?) saying
First all is Form,
Then all is Emptiness,
Then Form is Emptiness, Emptiness is Form
Then Form is Form, Emptiness is Emptiness.
- adapted from the Zen Circle diagram in THE COMPASS OF ZEN by
Edgar and Joe,
But it's not a bad metaphor for Illusion...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
Joe,
Using an advertisement designed to lie is not a particularly good metaphor
for reality...
Edgar
On Oct 12, 2012, at 3:40 PM, Joe wrote:
getting
out.
Â
AnthonyÂ
From: Bill! BillSmart@...
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 13 October 2012, 9:40
Subject: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space
Â
Edgar,
REALITY DOESN'T EXIST as I believe you think it does
Anthony,
I think a porcupine can easily get out of the same hole that it got into, but
only if it gets out by its own relaxed effort.
(Maybe we all have some friends who are like this, when it comes to their
opinions and entrenched positions).
If you try to pull it out forcibly, then the
Anthony, et al.!,
Where can I GET some of these amorphous pegs?
I am a woodworker, and I would like to have some on-hand.
They could get me out of a jam, sometimes.
Are you just humoring us? Is an amorphous peg some sort of Zen metaphor? ;-)
--Joe
Anthony Wu wuasg@... wrote:
An
Bill!,
Man, you're making me bust a gut. THAT is funny.
--Joe
PS I'll type some news about Jim in a few minutes.
Bill! BillSmart@... wrote:
Jim was the guy to joined just recently and talked a lot about his theory of
quantum Bodhisattvas.
Current
Bill!,
I think the first triplet is Donovan's rendition of the traditional Zen saying
(not Hindu Yoga, no, I don't believe).
Too close to my bed-time for me to say anything more to synthesize the ideas
here that we were talking about. I must bail. Later?
--Joe
Bill! BillSmart@... wrote:
there you go BILL!..the pulse..you nearly made it..even if it might be
accidental you tiger you tiger who hates compassion D.L. style..merle
Merle,
I was trying to pick my nose but missed and my finger accidently ended up on
the pulse! It creeped me out! ...Bill!
--- In
Bill,
How do you know what you are experiencing is reality or illusion if you don't
understand the difference?
Riddle me that!
Edgar
On Oct 10, 2012, at 8:31 PM, Bill! wrote:
Edgar,
Are you ACTUALLY SAYING that in order to directly experience reality (realize
Buddha Nature) I (or
Jim,
But that theory as you state it does NOT explain consciousness. It assumes a
separate pre-existing consciousness the microtubules work with..
Edgar
On Oct 10, 2012, at 8:46 PM, jfnewell7 wrote:
The quantum processes involving the microtubules transfer information from
the nerve
Jim,
It downloads for everyone else. I suspect you just need to update your Adobe
pdf reader which is easy and free...
Edgar
On Oct 10, 2012, at 8:51 PM, jfnewell7 wrote:
Your paper didn't download, perhaps due to my old computer. Would it be
possible for you either to post your paper as
Jim,
I agree it needs a mathematical statement to be tested. That would involve
general relativity equations.
Can't be tested with a small local sphere. There is no local distortion since
it's all inside the gravitationally bound galaxy.
Edgar
On Oct 10, 2012, at 9:02 PM, jfnewell7 wrote:
Joe,
There is a VERY FUNDAMENTAL confusion among Zennists.
It's easy to enter a particular meditative state during zazen. But this is
exactly that, a particular meditative state. But that is NOT the essence of
Zen...
This meditative state does get one closer to direct experience of the
Edgar,
First of all I want you to know that I'm fully aware you did not answer my
question below which I think is a very, very important one. That is, by the
way, asking if differing degrees of intelligence (rationality) has any effect
on the ability to realize Buddha Nature.Riddle me
Jim,
May I suggest you have this backwards.
First it's not about 'saving' anyone.
It's about directly experiencing reality as it actually is. This does of course
greatly alleviate suffering if that's what you mean by 'saving'.
Do this yourself, and your example will be the best possible guide
Edgar,
I thought of erasing most of the last paragraph of this since I've tried to
DESCRIBE Buddha Nature by using logical constructs (language) but instead I'll
just add a post script...
Actually I am unable to verbally or textually DESCRIBE to you the difference
between experiencing reality
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space
JIm,
Don't pay any attention to Bill on this one. Zen is directly experiencing
reality as it actually is and to do that you must first understand the nature
of reality and the illusion which obscures it in great
Bill,
Needs to understand there is 'no separation' between self and theory. Both are
part of reality when truly understood for what they are. Both manifest ONLY as
direct experience. The discriminating, rational, dualistic mind is also part
of reality and manifests Buddha Nature just like
Jim,
Excellent response to Bill pointing out his illusion. You are exactly correct
that both the flower and the theory are forms in the mind, there is no
essential distinction.
Bill is mired in the illusion of thinking one kind of form is 'real' and the
other 'illusion'.
The true
Jim,
Correct, I'm working on it...
Edgar
On Oct 10, 2012, at 9:51 PM, jfnewell7 wrote:
The emergent property theory merely says, We don't know, so we assume that
it somehow just happens, and nobody had better contradict us.
Actually, if there really is an emergent property, then it is
Jim,
The cause of any suffering here is in the beholder, NOT the sender..
Edgar
On Oct 10, 2012, at 9:54 PM, jfnewell7 wrote:
I apologize for causing you to suffer. I won't do it again to you.
Jim
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Joe desert_woodworker@... wrote:
Criminy, when
Bill,
Wisdom and Compassion also arise spontaneously then, and in accord with
conditions -- as and after one awakens -- during the time that one IS awake.
So, awakening is not a done-deal, Bill, when it comes to saving.
But without awakening oneself, one endlessly stews Bowls of Misery, and
From: Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 11 October 2012, 12:56
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space
Joe,
There is a VERY FUNDAMENTAL confusion among Zennists.
It's easy to enter a particular meditative state
: Thursday, 11 October 2012, 13:15
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space
Mike,
That's correct but one has to start with what can be understood even if it is
not completely accurate. Language can never be a completely accurate
description of Buddha Nature.
'Zen is reality
breathing.
Mike
From: Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 11 October 2012, 13:15
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space
Mike,
That's correct but one has to start with what can be understood even
No? Really?
From: Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 11 October 2012, 17:19
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space
Mike,
No, pure experience itself is antecedent to an experiencer
On 10/11/2012 7:24 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
How do you know what you are experiencing is reality or illusion if
you don't understand the difference?
Riddle me that!
No riddle apart from the riddler - who assumes understanding is lacking
or requires finding.
To think you know is illusion, born
On 10/11/2012 7:56 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
The PROBLEM is that this meditative state is only temporary and true
Zen has to be 24/7 in all aspects of daily life.
No problem, as all such states appear as aspects of this.
KG
Current Book Discussion: any Zen
On 10/11/2012 8:15 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
Direct experience is primary.
Secondary, tertiary, etc. - the processing of experiencing - being what
some call illusion - but seeing these as different is what cause the
appearance of a problem - as all this arises as an aspect of the
primary
Realizing this, there is no illusion.
KG
On 10/11/2012 8:20 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
Bill,
Needs to understand there is 'no separation' between self and theory.
Both are part of reality when truly understood for what they are. Both
manifest ONLY as direct experience. The discriminating,
and meditative practices.
Mike
*From:* Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net
*To:* Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Thursday, 11 October 2012, 12:56
*Subject:* Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space
Joe,
There is a VERY
Jim,
This all sounds like a bunch of gobbedy-gook to me. For example I've never
heard of a 'quantum theory of consciousness' nor do can I conceive of such a
thing. Besides affirming to you that all of these concepts are illusory and
even if they are discussed in some circle have nothing to
Bill et al,
Roger Penrose originated a quantum theory of consciousness which claims
consciousness arises because certain neural processes operate at the quantum
level.
It's a nonsense theory...
Edgar
On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:12 AM, Bill! wrote:
Jim,
This all sounds like a bunch of
I'm more interested in qualta than quanta...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
Bill et al,
Roger Penrose originated a quantum theory of consciousness which claims
consciousness arises because certain neural processes operate at the quantum
level.
On 10/10/2012 7:21 AM, Bill! wrote:
I'm MORE interested in qualta than quanta...Bill!
Clearly, your interest lies! *L*
KG
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
* To
Edgar,
I think so, too! Fertile fodder for fiction, though.
But every great scientist, even a doyen/doyenne, has to take a few shots in the
dark. And is entitled!
Safer to do AFTER they're famous. ;-)
His is sort of the Cold Fusion of Consciousness Theory.
BTW, I hear that LENR is getting
Bill!,
Quanta has a qualta all its own; and maybe vice versa, if you have a very
sensitive meter.
Funny!
--Joe
Bill! BillSmart@... wrote:
I'm more interested in qualta than quanta...Bill!
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have
It's not a widely known field so it is not surprising that you haven't heard of
it. Many other people haven't either. There is a Journal, the Journal of
Consciousness Studies, which talks quite a bit about it. I participated on
their message board for awhile a number of years back. Then, the
It is proper for you to be skeptical. This is a very tentative hypothesis and
its links to quantum processes is even more tentative.
If the expansion of the universe is not accelerating, then the tentative
hypothesis falls since the expansion in acceleration is central to it. If there
is no
If the Quantum Theory of Consciousness is true, which it might or might not be,
and if it doesn't connect to a further process, which might or might not be,
then some quantum effects must have qualities such as redness, blueness,
middle-c-ness, rose-odorness etc. The reason would be because
Just to be clear here there is not currently a Quantum Theory of
Consciousness that is proposed - we don't understand the mechanics of
consciousness, and Penrose pointed out a resemblance between this lack and
the lack of understanding of what the decoherence/wave collapse operation
corresponds to
Jim,
Good synopsis. However even if microtubules exhibit quantum level processes
what in the heck does that have to do with consciousness? Nothing at all that I
can see... That's why I see no value in the theory at least with respect to
consciousness. I'm not knocking Penrose in general. I got
Jim,
A theory I've proposed to explain dark matter is this. INTERgalactic space is
expanding but INTRAgalactic space is not since it's gravitationally bound.
Therefore there will be a distortion in the fabric of space at the boundaries.
And of course any distortion of space produces
Jim,
This doesn't make sense to me. The brain is a computational system that
simulates external reality in human terms. Qualia are representations in the
simulation of the INTERACTION of the external computational forms with those of
the perceiving organism...
Such qualities don't exist in
Jim,
I don't know if you're really serious about zen and realizing Buddha Nature.
but if you are I feel compelled to tell you that acquiring knowledge is not the
way to go. I'm sure you've read all the zen anecdotes about this, but not only
is your tea cup overflowing, your entire kitchen is
Chris,
Yes, Edgar will point out that the old theory of wave function collapse has
been replaced by the theory of decoherence. There is NO wave function
'collapse'. It was one of several totally crackpot quantum interpretations like
the continually splitting universe interpretation.
Edgar
hey BILL!guess what i agree with you..meow!..merle
Jim,
I don't know if you're really serious about zen and realizing Buddha Nature.
but if you are I feel compelled to tell you that acquiring knowledge is not the
way to go. I'm sure you've read all the zen anecdotes about
JIm,
Don't pay any attention to Bill on this one. Zen is directly experiencing
reality as it actually is and to do that you must first understand the nature
of reality and the illusion which obscures it in great detail. That is a
logical understanding first that enables the direct non logical
Edgar is not a fan of Deutsch or the multiverse (non-cosmological) I guess.
How do you explain the non-locality then?
Thanks,
--Chris
ch...@austin-lane.net
+1-301-270-6524
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote:
Chris,
Yes, Edgar will point out that the old
Edgar,
Do you think then that there was no one doing zen before the advent of
quantum field theory? (Or, since you don't like the older interpretations,
before 1970)?
Thanks,
--Chris, who rather agrees that the experience of a non-dual perspective is
orthogonal to enjoying a bit of modern
Bill!,
Preach on, Preacher! Yes sir! Amen! Right on, good Brother! We're with you,
Man. Amen! Tha's IT! Say it some mo'! Lay it ON me! Knock me
upside-the-head with the DHARMA! Go 'head! Right ON!
Jim is ready for this constructive criticism, as far as it goes. Fingers:
POINTING!
Chris,
They were trying, but the knowledge of the nature of reality and illusion has
advanced much since then, though very few understand it...
Hopefully my book in progress will help change that...
Edgar
On Oct 10, 2012, at 8:16 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
Edgar,
Do you think then
Merle,
I was trying to pick my nose but missed and my finger accidently ended up on
the pulse! It creeped me out! ...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote:
 hey BILL!guess what i agree with you..meow!..merle
Â
Jim,
I don't
Chris,
So called 'non-locality' only arises with respect to the MISTAKENLY ASSUMED
pre-existing classical space time that quantum processes are wrongly thought to
take place within.
When it is correctly understood how space time emerges from quantum processes
all the so called quantum
Bill!,
Lucky, for all. It could have been MUCH worse. --Joe
PS As when my TONGUE got in the way of my eye-tooth, and I could not SEE what
I was saying.
Bill! BillSmart@... wrote:
I was trying to pick my nose but missed and my finger accidently ended up on
the pulse! It creeped me
Edgar,
Are you ACTUALLY SAYING that in order to directly experience reality (realize
Buddha Nature) I (or anyone) ...must first understand the nature of reality
and the illusion which obscures it in great detail?
If so does that mean that people with higher IQs can realize Buddha Nature more
Joe,
I'd call it 'deconstructive criticism'...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Joe desert_woodworker@... wrote:
Bill!,
Preach on, Preacher! Yes sir! Amen! Right on, good Brother! We're with
you, Man. Amen! Tha's IT! Say it some mo'! Lay it ON me! Knock me
upside-the-head
And your reply to Deutsch and the multiverse school?
Thanks,
--Chris
ch...@austin-lane.net
+1-301-270-6524
PS In what way is non-locality a paradox? It seems like a pretty
straightforward description of the math?
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote:
Chris,
Edgar,
Off-topic, but/and Howdy!:
I was bemused, some time ago -- but delighted! -- to learn that, in Special
Relativity, energy is NOT conserved (middle-Teenager).
For example -- and this is the instance by which I approached this:
Astronomical Redshifts (what ELSE!). A spectral-line starts
The brain processes information very well, so of course, the brain does
identify objects. The problem is not in the processing abilities. The problem
is in the final display of the results. For example, of one looks at a computer
screen, the pixels are integrated into images. But the pixels on
The quantum processes involving the microtubules transfer information from the
nerve impulse patterns to consciousness, and information from consciousness
back to the neurons, setting of new nerve impulse patterns.
That seems clear. Whether it is true or not is another question.
Jim
--- In
Your paper didn't download, perhaps due to my old computer. Would it be
possible for you either to post your paper as an ordinary message, or to post a
message with a summary of the paper?
Jim
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
Jim,
Good synopsis. However
I suspect that consciousness is an emergent property like wetness.
There does not need to be any display - when the appropriate neurons fire in my
head, I see red.
The google result was a neuron (well a cell in a big neural net program) that
fired when presented by faces. No pixels invoked
I don't know whether or not your theory is true.
However, one method of proceeding would be to slightly restate and restate the
theory until it became stated in a way that tied in with some data. I'll give
an example, but your intuition is important and you wouldn't necessarily
restate it
Jim,
There is no brain in the Dharma. Why dick-around on the Shores of Lake
Gitchegummi?
Our technology is old, but it is Human, and it works. It's had the best of
quality-control, over Centuries (read: Millennia). If you are not a Zen
student, though, stop reading here.
I would suggest
Those ideas about knowledge are merely meditation instructions, albeit very
good meditation instructions.
A Buddha could just as well hold up a theory of gravity as hold up a flower.
There is no difference.
I probably could obtain clearly vision of the Buddha-nature without more
knowledge.
October 2012, 1:14
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space
JIm,
Don't pay any attention to Bill on this one. Zen is directly experiencing
reality as it actually is and to do that you must first understand the nature
of reality and the illusion which obscures
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