Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Anthony, I see I already have your answer. Well, you are a crafty, evil ego maniac because your posts seem to suggest otherwise. Sincerely, Chris --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I am one of the evil ego maniacs. > Â > Regards, > Anthony > > --- On Tue, 7/10/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [Zen] Aging and Zen > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, 7 October, 2008, 8:25 AM > > > > > > > Anthony, > > In response to an earlier post: > >> Most Atheists who are evil ego-maniacs are men. > > You responded: > >I am one of them. > > You are one of which? Atheist? Evil? Ego-maniac? Man? ...or all of the above? > > Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get your new Email address! > Grab the Email name you've always wanted before someone else does! > http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/sg/ > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] Aging and Zen
I am one of the evil ego maniacs. Regards, Anthony --- On Tue, 7/10/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [Zen] Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, 7 October, 2008, 8:25 AM Anthony, In response to an earlier post: >> Most Atheists who are evil ego-maniacs are men. You responded: >I am one of them. You are one of which? Atheist? Evil? Ego-maniac? Man? ...or all of the above? Bill! Get your new Email address! Grab the Email name you've always wanted before someone else does! http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/sg/
RE: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Anthony, In response to an earlier post: >> Most Atheists who are evil ego-maniacs are men. You responded: >I am one of them. You are one of which? Atheist? Evil? Ego-maniac? Man? ...or all of the above? ...Bill! Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Chris, I am one of them. Regards, Anthony --- On Mon, 6/10/08, cid830 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: cid830 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, 6 October, 2008, 11:25 AM --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com, "Karin" wrote: > Most Atheists who are evil ego-maniacs are men.> Really? Please name some of them for me. Was that a scientific study? An informal poll? Thank You, Chris Yahoo! Toolbar is now powered with Search Assist.Download it now! http://sg.toolbar.yahoo.com/
Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Jody, I know it is OT but if you are blind how do you manage to read and write emails so well? Email me off group if you want EDgar On Oct 5, 2008, at 10:34 PM, Jody W. Ianuzzi wrote: Hi Bill, What I meant by my 'empty mirror comment is that I don't see myself when I look in the mirrorbecause I can't SEE. JODY
RE: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Jody, You wrote: >I have never believed in God but the reason why I can never steal or lie is >because I would know. >I was not afraid of getting caught and I was not worried what >God would think, I just knew I could not do such a thing. >I NEVER cheated on a test because the better grade was >not worth violating my own code of ethics. This is exactly how I understand the concept of karma. If you do something you think is bad, then you feel guilty and feel bad. Bad acts bring unhappiness. >I have never understood how people can lie, cheat or steal because >THEY would have to live with themselves. Perhaps these people do not think lying, cheating or stealing is wrong - but more than likely they are able to justify (to themselves) doing these things. By doing that they do not feel guilty and therefore are not unhappy. What's happened to karma in this case? As you know I believe karma is maya so I'm not too worried about rationalizing this situation - but you could say karma is still working because the effect on them is that they lose more and more of their ability to discern right from wrong every time they justify their bad actions. Maybe when they die they'll go to hell, or even Iowa. Who knows? ...Bill! Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Jody, Oh! Thanks for explaining. Now everything is perfectly clear...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jody W. Ianuzzi Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 9:35 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen Hi Bill, What I meant by my 'empty mirror comment is that I don't see myself when I look in the mirrorbecause I can't SEE. JODY __ NOD32 3495 (20081004) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Karin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Most Atheists who are evil ego-maniacs are men.> Really? Please name some of them for me. Was that a scientific study? An informal poll? Thank You, Chris Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Hi Bill, What I meant by my 'empty mirror comment is that I don't see myself when I look in the mirrorbecause I can't SEE. JODY Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Jody, So you don't think of yourself as a man or woman either? ...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jody W. Ianuzzi Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 6:58 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen Hello Edgar, Ahhh, but I literally see an empty mirror. JODY __ NOD32 3494 (20081003) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Jody, Well, you are either a vampire or a Buddha. Has the sun gone down there yet? Edgar On Oct 5, 2008, at 7:57 PM, Jody W. Ianuzzi wrote: Hello Edgar, Ahhh, but I literally see an empty mirror. JODY
Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Hello Edgar, Ahhh, but I literally see an empty mirror. JODY Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Jody, You just haven't looked in the mirror carefully enough! :-) Edgar On Oct 5, 2008, at 4:45 PM, Jody W. Ianuzzi wrote: H, I am an atheist and I don't think of myself as God. JODY
Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen
H, I am an atheist and I don't think of myself as God. JODY Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Anthony Wu > I agree you don't have to be religious to be ethical. I know many atheist who are good people. But I also know many who are bad. Especially when they have power, which they use in a wrong way. What stops you from doing something 'bad'? > The #1 characteristic of most Atheists is that they are ego-maniacs who think of themselves as GOD and who believe that anything they do is good because there is no GOD and no type of higher power. The worst kind of Atheist thinks that he is ethical by nature and thus never questions his actions in spite of all the evil deeds that he does. Most Atheists who are evil ego-maniacs are men. Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Hi Karin, I share your point of view, except your comment on men. If I was an umpire, I would give a draw between wicked men and women. Regards, Anthony --- On Mon, 6/10/08, Karin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Karin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, 6 October, 2008, 1:16 AM Anthony Wu > I agree you don't have to be religious to be ethical. I know many atheist who are good people. But I also know many who are bad. Especially when they have power, which they use in a wrong way. What stops you from doing something 'bad'? > The #1 characteristic of most Atheists is that they are ego-maniacs who think of themselves as GOD and who believe that anything they do is good because there is no GOD and no type of higher power. The worst kind of Atheist thinks that he is ethical by nature and thus never questions his actions in spite of all the evil deeds that he does. Most Atheists who are evil ego-maniacs are men. Mobile phone fell into water!
Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Anthony Wu > I agree you don't have to be religious to be ethical. I know many atheist who are good people. But I also know many who are bad. Especially when they have power, which they use in a wrong way. What stops you from doing something 'bad'? > The #1 characteristic of most Atheists is that they are ego-maniacs who think of themselves as GOD and who believe that anything they do is good because there is no GOD and no type of higher power. The worst kind of Atheist thinks that he is ethical by nature and thus never questions his actions in spite of all the evil deeds that he does. Most Atheists who are evil ego-maniacs are men. Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Anthony Wu > I agree you don't have to be religious to be ethical. I know many atheist who are good people. But I also know many who are bad. Especially when they have power, which they use in a wrong way. What stops you from doing something 'bad'? > The #1 characteristic of most Atheists is that they are ego-maniacs who think of themselves as GOD and who believe that anything they do is good because there is no GOD and no type of higher power. The worst kind of Atheist thinks that he is ethical by nature and thus never questions his actions in spite of all the evil deeds that he does. Most Atheists who are evil ego-maniacs are men. Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Anthony, I have never believed in God but the reason why I can never steal or lie is because I would know. I have an example that just happened. I recently bought three items at a major department store. On the way out of the store I felt the amount I paid was too low for the items I purchased. I checked the receipt and I discovered they had only charged me for two items. Without hesitation I went back to the cashier and said I wanted to pay for the third item. I was not afraid of getting caught and I was not worried what God would think, I just knew I could not do such a thing. I am blind and when I was in school I was given take home exams. My friends thought that was so cool because I could look up the answers and the teacher would never know it. I NEVER cheated on a test because the better grade was not worth violating my own code of ethics. I have never understood how people can lie, cheat or steal because THEY would have to live with themselves. JODY Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Dear both, Are good people always good? What makes them good? Their genes? Or their karma, if you still believe it? Regards, Anthony --- On Sun, 5/10/08, Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, 5 October, 2008, 5:39 PM Jody, That's why they say to read the Bilble to find out what people were doing wring back then, and that applies equally well to believers today. It's the good people that don't need god or religion in the first place to try to keep them from doing bad. :-) Edgar On Oct 4, 2008, at 5:04 PM, Jody W. Ianuzzi wrote: Hello Bob, I always find it ironic when I hear that the only reason why people have morals is because of a fear of God. I remember when my nephew was traveling around Europe. He left his bag on the floor next to him at the airport in Israel for 5 minutes and it was gone. Israel is the home of the three mono theistic religions in the world. Compare this to when you could leave a briefcase on a train platform in Japan and find it there the next day. Most Japanese are Buddhist, tao or Shinto. So where does God enter into the picture of ethics? JODY New Email names for you! Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail. Hurry before someone else does! http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/sg/
Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Jody, That's why they say to read the Bilble to find out what people were doing wring back then, and that applies equally well to believers today. It's the good people that don't need god or religion in the first place to try to keep them from doing bad. :-) Edgar On Oct 4, 2008, at 5:04 PM, Jody W. Ianuzzi wrote: Hello Bob, I always find it ironic when I hear that the only reason why people have morals is because of a fear of God. I remember when my nephew was traveling around Europe. He left his bag on the floor next to him at the airport in Israel for 5 minutes and it was gone. Israel is the home of the three mono theistic religions in the world. Compare this to when you could leave a briefcase on a train platform in Japan and find it there the next day. Most Japanese are Buddhist, tao or Shinto. So where does God enter into the picture of ethics? JODY
RE: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Bob, I agree you don't have to be religious to be ethical. I know many atheist who are good people. But I also know many who are bad. Especially when they have power, which they use in a wrong way. What stops you from doing something 'bad'? If nobody possibly notice me, should I steal the large sum of money that comes my way? Regards, Anthony --- On Sun, 5/10/08, Endymion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Endymion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [Zen] Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, 5 October, 2008, 4:21 AM I know, I considered myself an atheist from about 1968-1983 and shock of shocks, I didn't rape a single person then. And believe it or not, I didn't murder anyone either. A LOT higher percentage of my atheist friends I would consider highly ethical or moral or whatever word de jour you want to use than of the theistic people I've known. Bob --- On Fri, 10/3/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] org <[EMAIL PROTECTED] org> wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] org <[EMAIL PROTECTED] org> Subject: RE: [Zen] Aging and Zen To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Date: Friday, October 3, 2008, 9:38 PM Anthony, If you need a purpose to guide your actions, or you need a promise of reward or threat of retribution to convince you not to kill, burn, steal, or rape, try Christianity or one of the many other religions that provide you with an external daddy that will tell you what to do and punish you if you don't. If your request 'Please enlighten me.' was not just rhetorical, I suggest you begin by giving zen mediation (zazen) a try. There are any number of web sites which can instruct you one the basics, or better yet find a sangha (zen community) near you that has a qualified teacher. Good luck on your practice...Bill! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 10:05 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen That sounds like materialism. When we die, we return to atoms and molecules.. Nothing else. No heaven and no hell. So we can kill, burn, steal, rape... No retrubution, no karma. What is the purpose of working hard on zen or others? Please enlighten me. Regards, Anthony --- On Sat, 4/10/08, Al wrote: From: Al Subject: [Zen] Aging and Zen To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Date: Saturday, 4 October, 2008, 2:14 AM As we all get older, and some of us are a lot older, the question for me now is this: Does Zen give you everything you want? Are you willing to die sitting on a cushion just saying "this is it?" No Heaven for you? No Nirvana? No nothing? Just worms?? _ _ _ _ Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail. .com. __ NOD32 3494 (20081003) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset. com New Email addresses available on Yahoo! Get the Email name you've always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail. Hurry before someone else does! http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/sg/
RE: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Bill, Thank you for your advice. I am not unfamiliar with zazen, and am actually practising it, though not very effectively. There is something more than just zazen that involves human behavior that zen (or particularly you, but I am not blaming you) seems to say that karma does not work. That sort of troubles me. You say (if I am not misunderstanding) zen is now separate from Buddhism. That is why? karma does not work. Or don't worry about karma. On the other hand, I admire zen philosophy (if there is any) that does away with supersitition. We can 'kill' anything including Buddha. Tell me if I am right or why wrong. I have other questions to ask you. Regards, Anthony --- On Sat, 4/10/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [Zen] Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, 4 October, 2008, 12:38 PM Anthony, If you need a purpose to guide your actions, or you need a promise of reward or threat of retribution to convince you not to kill, burn, steal, or rape, try Christianity or one of the many other religions that provide you with an external daddy that will tell you what to do and punish you if you don't. If your request 'Please enlighten me.' was not just rhetorical, I suggest you begin by giving zen mediation (zazen) a try. There are any number of web sites which can instruct you one the basics, or better yet find a sangha (zen community) near you that has a qualified teacher. Good luck on your practice...Bill! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 10:05 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen That sounds like materialism. When we die, we return to atoms and molecules.. Nothing else. No heaven and no hell. So we can kill, burn, steal, rape... No retrubution, no karma. What is the purpose of working hard on zen or others? Please enlighten me. Regards, Anthony --- On Sat, 4/10/08, Al wrote: From: Al Subject: [Zen] Aging and Zen To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Date: Saturday, 4 October, 2008, 2:14 AM As we all get older, and some of us are a lot older, the question for me now is this: Does Zen give you everything you want? Are you willing to die sitting on a cushion just saying "this is it?" No Heaven for you? No Nirvana? No nothing? Just worms?? _ _ _ _ Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail. .com. __ NOD32 3494 (20081003) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset. com Get your new Email address! Grab the Email name you've always wanted before someone else does! http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/sg/
Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Hello Bob, I always find it ironic when I hear that the only reason why people have morals is because of a fear of God. I remember when my nephew was traveling around Europe. He left his bag on the floor next to him at the airport in Israel for 5 minutes and it was gone. Israel is the home of the three mono theistic religions in the world. Compare this to when you could leave a briefcase on a train platform in Japan and find it there the next day. Most Japanese are Buddhist, tao or Shinto. So where does God enter into the picture of ethics? JODY Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] Aging and Zen
I know, I considered myself an atheist from about 1968-1983 and shock of shocks, I didn't rape a single person then. And believe it or not, I didn't murder anyone either. A LOT higher percentage of my atheist friends I would consider highly ethical or moral or whatever word de jour you want to use than of the theistic people I've known. Bob --- On Fri, 10/3/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [Zen] Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 3, 2008, 9:38 PM Anthony, If you need a purpose to guide your actions, or you need a promise of reward or threat of retribution to convince you not to kill, burn, steal, or rape, try Christianity or one of the many other religions that provide you with an external daddy that will tell you what to do and punish you if you don't. If your request 'Please enlighten me.' was not just rhetorical, I suggest you begin by giving zen mediation (zazen) a try. There are any number of web sites which can instruct you one the basics, or better yet find a sangha (zen community) near you that has a qualified teacher. Good luck on your practice...Bill! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 10:05 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen That sounds like materialism. When we die, we return to atoms and molecules. Nothing else. No heaven and no hell. So we can kill, burn, steal, rape... No retrubution, no karma. What is the purpose of working hard on zen or others? Please enlighten me. Regards, Anthony --- On Sat, 4/10/08, Al wrote: From: Al Subject: [Zen] Aging and Zen To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Date: Saturday, 4 October, 2008, 2:14 AM As we all get older, and some of us are a lot older, the question for me now is this: Does Zen give you everything you want? Are you willing to die sitting on a cushion just saying "this is it?" No Heaven for you? No Nirvana? No nothing? Just worms?? _ _ _ _ Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail. .com. __ NOD32 3494 (20081003) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset. com
Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Free from want! Free from want! I think I had a glimpse of the universal life foce and wisdom and then slipped in my practice and "wanted" to get back there and "tried" very hard. That was the very problem (along with the drugs)! Thank You, Chris --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦ç²¾æ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Al, Chan is the universal life force and wisdom. It provides life > and all the nutrients to support us, equally to everyone of us without > preference. In the question you asked ".everything you want?", the > word "want" is the problem. The funny thing about Chan practice is > first to let go of the ego, meaning let go of all the "want", then we > can enter the tiny gate of stillness, only when we still, we can be > connected to the universal life force and wisdom. Then the True Form > will be unfold to us. > > Simply by wanting it to happen or guessing that it may happen or imaging > it or taking LSD, it will not happen. > > Purity is the first stage in our practice, it means purity of body, mind > and spirit. that is just the beginning. The good thing about our > school is anyone can practice and witness oneself. > JM > > > Al wrote: > > > > As we all get older, and some of us are a lot older, the question for > > me now is this: Does Zen give you everything you want? Are you willing > > to die sitting on a cushion just saying "this is it?" No Heaven for > > you? No Nirvana? No nothing? Just worms?? > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen
JM, Good post. Total agreement. Empty yourself and you will be filled. Edgar On Oct 4, 2008, at 12:46 AM, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 wrote: Hi Al, Chan is the universal life force and wisdom. It provides life and all the nutrients to support us, equally to everyone of us without preference. In the question you asked ".everything you want?", the word "want" is the problem. The funny thing about Chan practice is first to let go of the ego, meaning let go of all the "want", then we can enter the tiny gate of stillness, only when we still, we can be connected to the universal life force and wisdom. Then the True Form will be unfold to us. Simply by wanting it to happen or guessing that it may happen or imaging it or taking LSD, it will not happen. Purity is the first stage in our practice, it means purity of body, mind and spirit. that is just the beginning. The good thing about our school is anyone can practice and witness oneself. JM Al wrote: > > As we all get older, and some of us are a lot older, the question for > me now is this: Does Zen give you everything you want? Are you willing > to die sitting on a cushion just saying "this is it?" No Heaven for > you? No Nirvana? No nothing? Just worms?? > >
Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Anthony, The error is thinking of some future reward or punishment, or lack of it for our actions in the present moment. That is the error since the present moment is all that ever exists it must always be sufficient in itself. If one lives one's life that way your question vanishes and that is its answer. Edgar On Oct 3, 2008, at 11:05 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: That sounds like materialism. When we die, we return to atoms and molecules. Nothing else. No heaven and no hell. So we can kill, burn, steal, rape... No retrubution, no karma. What is the purpose of working hard on zen or others? Please enlighten me. Regards, Anthony --- On Sat, 4/10/08, Al <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Al <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Zen] Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, 4 October, 2008, 2:14 AM As we all get older, and some of us are a lot older, the question for me now is this: Does Zen give you everything you want? Are you willing to die sitting on a cushion just saying "this is it?" No Heaven for you? No Nirvana? No nothing? Just worms?? Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail..com.
Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Hi Al, Chan is the universal life force and wisdom. It provides life and all the nutrients to support us, equally to everyone of us without preference. In the question you asked ".everything you want?", the word "want" is the problem. The funny thing about Chan practice is first to let go of the ego, meaning let go of all the "want", then we can enter the tiny gate of stillness, only when we still, we can be connected to the universal life force and wisdom. Then the True Form will be unfold to us. Simply by wanting it to happen or guessing that it may happen or imaging it or taking LSD, it will not happen. Purity is the first stage in our practice, it means purity of body, mind and spirit. that is just the beginning. The good thing about our school is anyone can practice and witness oneself. JM Al wrote: > > As we all get older, and some of us are a lot older, the question for > me now is this: Does Zen give you everything you want? Are you willing > to die sitting on a cushion just saying "this is it?" No Heaven for > you? No Nirvana? No nothing? Just worms?? > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Anthony, If you need a purpose to guide your actions, or you need a promise of reward or threat of retribution to convince you not to kill, burn, steal, or rape, try Christianity or one of the many other religions that provide you with an external daddy that will tell you what to do and punish you if you don't. If your request 'Please enlighten me.' was not just rhetorical, I suggest you begin by giving zen mediation (zazen) a try. There are any number of web sites which can instruct you one the basics, or better yet find a sangha (zen community) near you that has a qualified teacher. Good luck on your practice...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 10:05 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen That sounds like materialism. When we die, we return to atoms and molecules. Nothing else. No heaven and no hell. So we can kill, burn, steal, rape... No retrubution, no karma. What is the purpose of working hard on zen or others? Please enlighten me. Regards, Anthony --- On Sat, 4/10/08, Al <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Al <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Zen] Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, 4 October, 2008, 2:14 AM As we all get older, and some of us are a lot older, the question for me now is this: Does Zen give you everything you want? Are you willing to die sitting on a cushion just saying "this is it?" No Heaven for you? No Nirvana? No nothing? Just worms?? Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail..com. __ NOD32 3494 (20081003) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen
That sounds like materialism. When we die, we return to atoms and molecules.. Nothing else. No heaven and no hell. So we can kill, burn, steal, rape... No retrubution, no karma. What is the purpose of working hard on zen or others? Please enlighten me. Regards, Anthony --- On Sat, 4/10/08, Al <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Al <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Zen] Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, 4 October, 2008, 2:14 AM As we all get older, and some of us are a lot older, the question for me now is this: Does Zen give you everything you want? Are you willing to die sitting on a cushion just saying "this is it?" No Heaven for you? No Nirvana? No nothing? Just worms?? Get your new Email address! Grab the Email name you've always wanted before someone else does! http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/sg/
RE: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Al, It's all in the attitude...It's not, '"this is it?" No Heaven for you? No Nirvana? No nothing? Just worms??'. It's Just THIS!, Heaven! Nirvana! Nothing! Worms! ...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 1:15 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Zen] Aging and Zen As we all get older, and some of us are a lot older, the question for me now is this: Does Zen give you everything you want? Are you willing to die sitting on a cushion just saying "this is it?" No Heaven for you? No Nirvana? No nothing? Just worms?? __ NOD32 3484 (20080930) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen
Al, What's the alternative? The way I think about death is that it doesn't exist. Literally. Zen is consciousness and we can only be conscious of life. We can never be conscious of being dead, so what's the problem? The only reality is the instantaneous present moment. That is always here now to our consciousness. Nothing else exists so it is meaningless illusion to think about being dead. In the direct experience of Zen only other beings can be directly experienced as dead, never consciousness itself which is what we are. Any thoughts of death and dying are abstract imaginations of what does not exist comparing them with what we imagine does exist - the illusory self. Thus being dead is simply another illusion and the Zen mind lets it float away with all the other illusory thoughts. That solves the problem of death. Suffering is another problem. Edgar On Oct 3, 2008, at 2:14 PM, Al wrote: As we all get older, and some of us are a lot older, the question for me now is this: Does Zen give you everything you want? Are you willing to die sitting on a cushion just saying "this is it?" No Heaven for you? No Nirvana? No nothing? Just worms??
