A couple more verses from 2 Nephi 28 that cause me discomfort:
21 And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that
they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well and
thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down
to
Esperanza and I were reading the Book of Mormon this evening and I came
upon a chapter that just doesn't seem to harmonize with current list and
Church attitudes towards other churches. Aren't we supposed to liken the
scriptures unto ourselves? Sometimes it is pretty hard.
---
2 Nephi
JWR:
---
Hate the sin and love the sinner. I understand that. But why do I have
to be accepting of a false church in order to be loving towards its
deluded, lied to, and oppressed members?
I can love a Catholic without loving his church. The same goes for a
Lutheran, Methodist,
- Original Message -
From: John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 12:39 AM
Subject: [ZION] Cognitive Dissonance
Esperanza and I were reading the Book of Mormon this evening and I came
upon a chapter that just doesn't seem to harmonize
Top ten reasons why I'm grateful not to be working in New Delhi
10.Those pesky monsoons.
9. Those pesky cows.
8. What those pesky cows leave behind.
7.One word. Curry.
6.Plodding elephants in the bus lane.
5.Plodding elephants in the commuter lane.
Tom wrote:
Talk about cognitive dissidence.
Tom comments:
I wish I could say that this malopropism was intentional. But I'm typing in
the dark here at 4:00 a.m. and the spell checker kept telling me to change
Lamanites to laminates and that's all I was thinking about at the time and
this got
At 04:19 AM 11/4/03 -0700, Tom Matkin wrote:
I wish I could say that this malopropism was intentional. But I'm typing in
the dark here at 4:00 a.m. and the spell checker kept telling me to change
Lamanites to laminates
That's what happens when a Native American with Jewish ancestry is working
Don't forget to vote early and vote often.
Till
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///
Don't forget to vote early and vote often.
Till
--
My absentee ballot was sent over a week ago. Unfortuately, I
will have no real say in who becomes mayor of the fair city of
Savannah. There will almost definitely be a run-off and Georgia
law (or perhaps Chatham County, but probably
Tom Matkin wrote:
Without digging into my scriptures for the exact quotes, consider the
actions of the sons of Mosiah going to serve and live among the Lamanites in
a spirit of love and sacrifice. Talk about cognitive dissidence. Do you
think their friends, both the ones they had when they were
Tom, you crack me up! And I thought false churches were a problem. Maybe
the problem is all us monkeys here below. --JWR
Tom Matkin wrote:
Top ten reasons why I'm grateful not to be working in New Delhi
10.Those pesky monsoons.
9. Those pesky cows.
8. What those pesky cows
At 11:19 AM 11/3/2003, you wrote:
-Steven-
I think highly of you too. Are you sure you don't want to
reconsider and be a part of ZION again?
Steven, I'm flattered that you even remember me. My good friend John
has asked that I return, as well. Guess he thought there wasn't enough
bickering on
John-- I have to take exception to your comments, and need to ponder this
passage of scripture a bit more, for neither fit my experience with my
previous church. the Presbyterian Church did nothing but prepare me to
accept the fullness of the Gospel when I heard it. maybe I was not
diligent
At 02:52 PM 11/3/2003, you wrote:
Yes, I had heard. In fact, I resubbed to Zion a while ago to express
my
condolences. I figured if we were making a wish list, though, I
could
wish as I wished...
Stephen
Well, if that's how we are wishing
I'll bet Oliver Cowdery would be an
-
But the Book of Mormon is still the Word of God, right? --JWR
Yes. And it tells us all about the sons of Mosiah doesn't it? How they
received
a great promise of safety from the Lord for their mission of love and
service and how
they enjoyed miraculous success among a lost and fallen
First off, we have to be careful not to assume, or read things into scripture. The
scriptures you cite do not say that All churches are evil and corrupt. It states that
there are some that are corrupt and seek to sway people away from goodness and Christ.
Do all churches have false creeds and
Tom Matkin wrote:
So what's the best way to influence a free agent. Love him. Remember my
own mantra, whatever the question, the answer is love. I think President
Hinckley operates like that.
Well, I guess I'll just have to love you into seeing what I see about false
churches.
Missing Elder
-Original Message-
From: Steven Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 8:31 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [ZION] Wish List
At 02:52 PM 11/3/2003, you wrote:
Yes, I had heard. In fact, I resubbed to Zion a while ago to express
my
-Original Message-
From: Ronn! Blankenship [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 6:32 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ZION] Cognitive Dissonance
At 04:19 AM 11/4/03 -0700, Tom Matkin wrote:
I wish I could say that this malopropism was intentional.
-Original Message-
From: Tom Matkin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 8:39 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ZION] Cognitive Dissonance
-
But the Book of Mormon is still the Word of God, right? --JWR
Yes. And it tells us all about the sons
Tom, I like the way you think. Although, all things considered, I'd
like
to
think President Hinckley argues to be in the world, but not of it.
Which
is
not a bad place to be if you can do it.
Ron
I agree with that, but I was obliquely referencing the exhortation in
Moroni 10:
30 And
Ron Scott wrote:
Well, I guess I'll just have to love you into seeing what I see
about false
churches.
Missing Elder McConkie,
John W. Redelfs
Thank goodness for living prophets.
You couldn't have said it any better, Ron. You are a good man. --JWR
Dear Val:
Thanks for asking, Val. I still have your booklet around here, in my files.
I'm glad the poems proved of use, of comfort to you. What happened to your
husband?
Yes, I'm still in Boston. Temple is built. I haven't been in it. And, I
don't know how long I'll be around on Zion: we seem
Well, there is one nice thing about getting old: auto insurance. I just
bought some today, and I was impressed with how inexpensive it is compared
with what it has been in years past. Of course, my teenaged son just moved
out. That might be part of the reason.
John W. Redelfs
John:
It was a tease, honest. I know I have to mind my Ps and Qs around you,
because you know my stake president way too well -- The Desert Rat who
couldn't stand the bone-chilling cold of New England, but inexplicably
acclimated well to Alaska. Go figure. grin
Ron
P.S. Did I ever tell you
-Original Message-
From: John W. Redelfs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 7:03 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ZION] Is God's Love Unconditional?
In the February ENSIGN, Elder Russell M. Nelson of the Quorum of
the Twelve
wrote an article in which
Ron Scott wrote:
There is a current piece in Ensign that confuses unconditional love and
blessing. Actually, I think the current piece confuses grace/faith/works.
God's love is unconditional, according to Hinckley (many sources). But, the
blessing/rewards are very conditional up faithfulness.
I
Ron Scott wrote:
As I said, you getting the two concepts mixed up. You're making synoymns of
unconditional love and divine blessings. So did Elder Nelson. You'd
better careful who you're calling anti-Christ JWR for you're about to
violate your own bylaws (grin)
I don't believe that I have
In my opinion, there are many Latter-day Saints who do not understand how
unloving and even cruel it is to teach false doctrine.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
John, it is equally cruel to teach that the only true doctrine is the one
and the way you understand it.
Apparently Elder Nelson himself has spoken of God's unconditional love in
General Conference. Heh, heh. I wonder if he was aware of that when he
wrote his article for the February 2003 ENSIGN.
Godliness characterizes each of you who truly loves the Lord. You are
constantly mindful of the
Ron Scott wrote:
There is a current piece in Ensign that confuses unconditional love and
blessing. Actually, I think the current piece confuses grace/faith/works.
God's love is unconditional, according to Hinckley (many sources). But, the
blessing/rewards are very conditional up faithfulness.
George Cobabe wrote:
In my opinion, there are many Latter-day Saints who do not understand how
unloving and even cruel it is to teach false doctrine.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
John, it is equally cruel to teach that the only true doctrine is the one
and the way you
-Original Message-
From: John W. Redelfs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 9:29 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [ZION] Is God's Love Unconditional?
Ron Scott wrote:
There is a current piece in Ensign that confuses unconditional love and
blessing.
Ron Scott wrote:
Finally, recall that Christ's unconditional love for us -- his grace --
guarantees all of us eternal life. What kind of eternal life we are given
depends on His assessment of our faithfulness.
I hope this is clearer than the earlier post.
It is clearer, Ron. I agree that we
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 01:24:17 + Stephen Beecroft
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
For some reason, this topic generates a great deal of emotion in
people on both sides of the issue. I fail to understand why, even in
myself, such emotions arise.
Because we ALL know that Father loves you more
From GOSPEL PRINCIPLES:
What Kind of Being Is God?
Because we are made in his image (see Moses 6:9), we know that God has a
body that looks like ours. His eternal spirit is housed in a tangible body
of flesh and bones (see DC 130:22). God's body, however, is perfected and
glorified, with a
Ron, You may be right. As a matter of fact I agree with you.
However, Elder Nelson does not. He says that God's love is conditional upon
righteousness.
In conference yet
George
- Original Message -
From: Ron Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 04,
What you say here is true, John. It is so easy to go further, as some do,
and suggest that they are the ones that know thre real truth about so many
other doctrines that you have not mentioned. And that is where the problem
is often found.
I do not think you are unwise, in fact I think that
The book GOSPEL PRINCIPLES is the correlated manual for the Gospel
Essentials Sunday School class. Primarily, it elaborates upon and
reinforces those things that new investigators were taught as official
Church doctrine by our missionaries. I have a question for George:
George, do you think
On Nov 4, 2003, at 7:47 PM, George Cobabe wrote:
Ron, You may be right. As a matter of fact I agree with you.
However, Elder Nelson does not. He says that God's love is
conditional upon
righteousness.
I think this is a difficult point.
Certain aspects of God's love are without question
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