RE: [Zope] ZPatterns

[Max M]

From: Steve Alexander

>I found your discussion of ZPatterns terms very thought-provoking.

Thanks. The first positive comment about it :-)

Your reply seems thorough. I will read it through in a day or two. (Has a
deadline right now.)

>Max, I'm extremely impressed! When I first read through your
>explanation, I figured you were a regular ZPatterns user :-)

No such luck. I am too busy right now to learn new stuff. Has to get a
project or two out the door first. But it sounds very interresting so I will
give it a go in the beginning of the new year.

Regards Max M

Max M. W. Rasmussen,Denmark.   New Media Director
private: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
Specialization is for insects.  -  Robert A. Heinlein



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Re: [Zope] ZPatterns

[Steve Alexander]

Steve Alexander wrote:

>
> You've described the Model-View relationship.
> The Controller part is where ZPatterns gets interesting; you can use 
> SkinScript to do a load of validation on your data, all in one place, in 
> a fairly specific and declarative language, which gets applied on 
> commiting a Zope transaction. That's powerful stuff!

Just to clarify this:

   I'm not suggesting that the controller's responsibility includes 
validating data.

Rather, I mean that you can use SkinScript to easily add an "aspect" of 
validating data in a certain way. In MVC terms, this is like a wrapper 
around the model that validates the data. All connectors from 
controllers to the model must go through this wrapper.

-- 
Steve Alexander
Software Engineer
Cat-Box limited
http://www.cat-box.net


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Re: [Zope] ZPatterns

[Steve Alexander]

Thanks Max,

I found your discussion of ZPatterns terms very thought-provoking.

Max Møller Rasmussen wrote:
 >

> To avoid this zPatterns use an anbstraction of a table called a "Rack". If
> you define this Rack how it is implemented at the backend doesn't matter. It
> can be an SQL database, or saved in the ZODB. The important thing is that
> you allways acces the Rack the same way so any other part of your
> application don't have to change when you change storage backend.

That's right.

> Often you want to look at data in different ways. You have your database,
> your logic, and different ways to look at the data. This is called the
> "Model View Controller" principle in standard Geek talk.

You've described the Model-View relationship.
The Controller part is where ZPatterns gets interesting; you can use 
SkinScript to do a load of validation on your data, all in one place, in 
a fairly specific and declarative language, which gets applied on 
commiting a Zope transaction. That's powerful stuff!

> You use it to avoid duplication of data. The "DRY" principle (Don't Repeat
> Yourself). When I see an article I also want see all comments made to this
> article. Furthermore when I see a user, I also want to see the comments that
> this user has made and all the articles that he has written.
> 
> Naturally you don't just copy the list of comment's to the article or the
> user. This would cause redundancy and bad problems when you change values in
> the original data. You make a new combined view of your model instead, where
> you join articles and comments on one page. So data from two different racks
> can be viewed in one place. In zPattern lingo this is called a "Specialist".
> But a "view" by any other name still smells as sweet.

I guess that's one way of doing this.

You would have three Specialists:

   Articles
   Comments
   ThreadedDiscussions

The ThreadedDiscussions specialists would act as a view of the other two 
specialists, drawing its information from both of them, behind the scenes.

You typically use SkinScript to knit these models and views together.

> To use these two nice abstractions in Zope it has to work a little more Zope
> like. Often when making a zClass you use a folderish object. the zPattern
> folder is called a "PlugIn". It can have properties just like a normal
> zClass. 

That's not right. The PlugIns part of ZPatterns is separate from the 
Racks/Specialists/DataSkins/SkinScript part.
I think what you are describing here is makign a ZClass that is derived 
from DataSkin and ObjectManager, and then using instances of that ZClass 
in the ZODB (as you would a normal ZClass). However, if you put your 
instances somewhere below a Folder with Customizer Support, you can use 
a Customizer to play around with the attributes of your ZClass 
instances; for example, by computing them from other attributes, or 
getting them from an external database.

The PlugIns product is a tool for creating frameworks for Open 
Implementations in Zope. Basically, it is a way of adding special 
management tabs to a folder-like object, where each tab declares which 
of the folder's sub-objects it should manage. The ZPatterns classes such 
as Specialist, Rack and Customizer are built as PlugIn Managers and PlugIns.

> In zPatterns the interface or "property sheet" used for handling the values
> in a single item in a rack. (What would be a single row in an SQL table) is
> called an "AttributeProvider".

It is easiest to use SkinScript to say where each attribute of an object 
needs to come from, and what should happen when someone tries to set a 
specific attribute of an object. SkinScript serves the function of an 
AttributeProvider here.

> When you combine the content of one or more racks into a new Specialist (or
> view, remmeber?) you use a "SheetProvider" to edit the data. This is what
> would be a normal management interface in a typical web application.

That's not quite right. You use a SheetProvider to link a WebDav 
propertysheet (that is attached to a Dataskin object) to some external 
data source.

> Anyhoo, this is how I unerstand it.
> 
> But I must add that I have never used zPatterns, This is all from how I
> understand the documentation, the Wiki etc combined with my limited
> knowledge of computer science.

Max, I'm extremely impressed! When I first read through your 
explanation, I figured you were a regular ZPatterns user :-)

--
Steve Alexander
Software Engineer
Cat-Box limited
http://www.cat-box.net


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Re: [Zope] ZPatterns

[Cees de Groot]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> >Hmm, maybe it's the time for a translate-zPatterns-to-english effort?
> I'll give it a try: 

Thanks for the effort, but I'm an application server architect myself so I do 
understand the things that zPatterns tries to solve.

It's not about understanding, my issue with zPatterns is that for every thing 
in the whole product, a new name has been made up. It sounds extremely 
interesting of course, and one could probably get a lot of VC capital out of 
it ;), but for daily work it's just too cumbersome.

So what I'd like is that a "Rack" is called a "StorageContainer" (or 
whatever), a "Skin" might better be called an "Aspect", etcetera. As far as I 
can see, there's nothing really new in terms of "computer science new" in 
zPatterns, so it should be possible to find plain terms for all the various 
components. Until then, I think I'll stay away from it - rather have a more 
basic application that I can understand than something I need a dictionary for 
to translate. I rather build quality software than be hip, but then I'm 
quickly getting to be an old hat in this business...



-- 
Cees de Groot   http://www.cdegroot.com <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
GnuPG 1024D/E0989E8B 0016 F679 F38D 5946 4ECD  1986 F303 937F E098 9E8B



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Re: [Zope] ZPatterns

[Cees de Groot]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> The basic problem as I experience it is not so much the jargon,
> because you get used to it.

That's what they told me about Perl, too. And because I couldn't get used to 
that mess, I switched to Python (maybe zPatterns was written for the wrong 
language? ;-})
-- 
Cees de Groot   http://www.cdegroot.com <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
GnuPG 1024D/E0989E8B 0016 F679 F38D 5946 4ECD  1986 F303 937F E098 9E8B



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Re: [Zope] ZPatterns & terminology

[Steve Spicklemire]

Have you seen:

http://www.zope.org/Members/sspickle/DumbZPatternsExample

there is an upgrade in the works. ;-) I'm working out the
kinks with a way to do documentation/modeling with ZPatterns.
Hopefully within a week or two...

-steve

> "Dario" == Dario Lopez-Kästen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>> From: "Cees de Groot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 8:16 AM
>> 

>> Chris Withers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: >...I disagree,
>> ZPatterns only major flaw is that its totally immersed in >its
>> own jargon which very few people understand :-(
>> >
>> >That said, my impression is that if you can wade through the
>> b/s, it's >more than worth the effort...
>> >
>> Hmm, maybe it's the time for a translate-zPatterns-to-english
>> effort?

Dario> Yes, I totally agree. It seems that Zpatterns is the thing
Dario> I need to make tru my vison of self-contained
Dario> plugin-components for the site(s) I am developing. However
Dario> I since I am still strugglig with the concept of
Dario> aquisition, the Zpattersn terminology makes my head
Dario> spin. :-)

Dario> /dario still digging...

Dario> -
Dario> 
Dario> Dario Lopez-Kästen Systems Developer Chalmers Univ. of
Dario> Technology [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ will yield no hits IT
Dario> Systems & Services


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Re: [Zope] ZPatterns

[Rik Hoekstra]

Cees de Groot wrote:
> 
> Chris Withers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> >...I disagree, ZPatterns only major flaw is that its totally immersed in
> >its own jargon which very few people understand :-(
> >
> >That said, my impression is that if you can wade through the b/s, it's
> >more than worth the effort...
> >
> Hmm, maybe it's the time for a translate-zPatterns-to-english effort?
> 
> --

In fact, IMHO the problem is not so much a translation (of concepts) to
English, because there are a few of those. 

See pje's own DropZone Example
http://www.zope.org//Members/pje/Wikis/ZPatterns/DropZoneExample

and Shane's more basic explanation of what is what
http://www.zope.org//Members/pje/Wikis/ZPatterns/RacksAndSpecialistsSimplified

The basic problem as I experience it is not so much the jargon, because
you get used to it. I'll add some more specific questions where my
understanding gets muddled to illustrate this

Where _I_ get stuck is:
1) How do Racks (and their associates) relate to normal propertysheets
and how to attributes. What is the relation to objects? 
2) What do I add to a Rack and what to a Specialist to get a) a property
b) a propertysheet c) an object
3) How do I switch from one implementation to another (for example from
persistent storage to non-persistent storage) and what parts do I have
to update
4) if I add a SkinScript, what does it really do? How does it relate to
my Rack, and how to the Specialist? How can I use it and where do I use
it - in the Rack or in the Specialist, or do they both have their own
domain?
5) How do I talk to a Specialists? What will it say back? For example,
if I have a 'virtual object' (let's say a person that gets its
properties from ad RDB and is accessed by its name), should I be able to
access it by direct URL traversal /WhateverSpecialist/Name or do
I add a querystring /WhateverSpecialist?name=Name

There should just be some annotated step by step guides. I'd like to add
some, but i first have to find out how ;-(

my 2 cents

Rik

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RE: [Zope] ZPatterns

[Magnus Heino (Rivermen)]

> > I simple products that does things the ZPatterns way, and 
> explains why and
> > how would be just great.
> 
> The problem, and this I totally agree with PJE, Ty Sarna and the other
> people who're using ZPatterns and fully understand it, is 
> that they are
> using it to do their jobs and so really haven't got the time 
> to come up
> with nice examples and finished docs. 
> 
> To be honest, I'm just glad they chose to open source it all :-)

And so am I.

What I meant was that there seems to be more and more people that that start
to understand it, at least a small bit of it.

If all these people contributed their small part to a
HowToWriteASimpleAndGoodZPatternsProductZWiki, then the documentation bit
would be solved.

Maybe people like you? :)

/Magnus

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RE: [Zope] ZPatterns

[Max Møller Rasmussen]

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

>Hmm, maybe it's the time for a translate-zPatterns-to-english effort?

I'll give it a try:

Normally you talk about multi tier applications, when talking about
something like zPatterns.

Say you want to make a website where users can write articles and comments,
like Slashdot. Then in asp, or to a lesser degree Zope you will write your
application in some sort of template language. VBScript or dtml.

New programmers will mix together persistence, presentation and logic all
over the place. That is a bad idea.

When you get a little better at programming you make classes that handles
database connections, classes that handles the business logic and classes
that handles the layout. 

So in this case you will make a user table in your SQL database, an article
table and a comment table. Then you will make some logic to controll it, and
some code to view it.

This is a three tier system. zPatterns adds a few more tiers and sugar on
top.

Normally in Zope you would make an folderish article Python product or
zClass that can contain comments. And also you would make a Python product
or zClass for users. Saving their names, email, webadresses, list of
articles or whatever.

All fine and dandy. But say instead of using the ZODB for storing user data
that you want to use the database that the company allready have with
employees??? You would have to rewrite your Python product or zClass from
scratch.

To avoid this zPatterns use an anbstraction of a table called a "Rack". If
you define this Rack how it is implemented at the backend doesn't matter. It
can be an SQL database, or saved in the ZODB. The important thing is that
you allways acces the Rack the same way so any other part of your
application don't have to change when you change storage backend.

Often you want to look at data in different ways. You have your database,
your logic, and different ways to look at the data. This is called the
"Model View Controller" principle in standard Geek talk.

You use it to avoid duplication of data. The "DRY" principle (Don't Repeat
Yourself). When I see an article I also want see all comments made to this
article. Furthermore when I see a user, I also want to see the comments that
this user has made and all the articles that he has written.

Naturally you don't just copy the list of comment's to the article or the
user. This would cause redundancy and bad problems when you change values in
the original data. You make a new combined view of your model instead, where
you join articles and comments on one page. So data from two different racks
can be viewed in one place. In zPattern lingo this is called a "Specialist".
But a "view" by any other name still smells as sweet.

To use these two nice abstractions in Zope it has to work a little more Zope
like. Often when making a zClass you use a folderish object. the zPattern
folder is called a "PlugIn". It can have properties just like a normal
zClass. 

In zPatterns the interface or "property sheet" used for handling the values
in a single item in a rack. (What would be a single row in an SQL table) is
called an "AttributeProvider".

When you combine the content of one or more racks into a new Specialist (or
view, remmeber?) you use a "SheetProvider" to edit the data. This is what
would be a normal management interface in a typical web application.

Anyhoo, this is how I unerstand it.

But I must add that I have never used zPatterns, This is all from how I
understand the documentation, the Wiki etc combined with my limited
knowledge of computer science.

Hope this helps.

Regards Max M

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Re: [Zope] ZPatterns

[Chris Withers]

"Magnus Heino (Rivermen)" wrote:
> 
> Are there any more docs or any examples available now than a couple of
> months ago?

Maybe

> I simple products that does things the ZPatterns way, and explains why and
> how would be just great.

The problem, and this I totally agree with PJE, Ty Sarna and the other
people who're using ZPatterns and fully understand it, is that they are
using it to do their jobs and so really haven't got the time to come up
with nice examples and finished docs. 

To be honest, I'm just glad they chose to open source it all :-)

cheers,

Chris

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[Zope] ZPatterns & terminology

[Dario Lopez-Kästen]

> From: "Cees de Groot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 8:16 AM
>

> Chris Withers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> >...I disagree, ZPatterns only major flaw is that its totally immersed in
> >its own jargon which very few people understand :-(
> >
> >That said, my impression is that if you can wade through the b/s, it's
> >more than worth the effort...
> >
> Hmm, maybe it's the time for a translate-zPatterns-to-english effort?

Yes, I totally agree. It seems that Zpatterns is the thing I need to make
tru my vison of self-contained plugin-components for the site(s) I am
developing. However I since I am still strugglig with the concept of
aquisition, the Zpattersn terminology makes my head spin. :-)

/dario
still digging...

- 
Dario Lopez-Kästen Systems Developer  Chalmers Univ. of Technology
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  ICQ will yield no hitsIT Systems & Services


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Re: [Zope] ZPatterns

[Cees de Groot]

Chris Withers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>...I disagree, ZPatterns only major flaw is that its totally immersed in
>its own jargon which very few people understand :-(
>
>That said, my impression is that if you can wade through the b/s, it's
>more than worth the effort...
>
Hmm, maybe it's the time for a translate-zPatterns-to-english effort?

-- 
Cees de Groot   http://www.cdegroot.com <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
GnuPG 1024D/E0989E8B 0016 F679 F38D 5946 4ECD  1986 F303 937F E098 9E8B

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RE: [Zope] ZPatterns

[Magnus Heino (Rivermen)]

> ...I disagree, ZPatterns only major flaw is that its totally 
> immersed in
> its own jargon which very few people understand :-(
> 
> That said, my impression is that if you can wade through the b/s, it's
> more than worth the effort...

Are there any more docs or any examples available now than a couple of
months ago?

I tried it back then, but really didn't understand it all :-P

I simple products that does things the ZPatterns way, and explains why and
how would be just great.

/Magnus

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Re: [Zope] ZPatterns

[Chris Withers]

Brad Clements wrote:
> 
> On 6 Dec 2000, at 23:54, Bill Welch wrote:
> works well, but the terminology used in ZPatterns always gives me a
> headache. Clearly a shortcoming on my part 

...I disagree, ZPatterns only major flaw is that its totally immersed in
its own jargon which very few people understand :-(

That said, my impression is that if you can wade through the b/s, it's
more than worth the effort...

cheers,

Chris

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[Zope] ZPatterns Stability

[Chris Withers]

Tim Cook wrote:
> > If you're brave you could try ZPatterns and then realyl not care at all
> > ;-)
> >
> >
> Don't you mean; 'If you're insane...' ?

No, I really don't!

ZPatterns is very cool, but still not documented. It's alpha but seems
stable enough for production in a lot of cases.

Phil? Steve A? backup? ;-)

cheers,

Chris

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[Zope] ZPatterns 0.4.1snap1 + LoginManager 0.8.7a1 + Zope 2.1.6 + Win2000

[Gijs Reulen]

-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Gijs Reulen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Verzonden: zondag 20 augustus 2000 12:00
Aan: Chris Withers
Onderwerp: RE: [Zope] ZPatterns 0.4.1snap1 + LoginManager 0.8.7a1 + Zope
2.1.6 + Win2000


Yes you're correct: I installed everything with 2.2 and it worked fine. I
did want to wait with 2.2 as long as I could but seems I have to change
versions now.
Anyway, thank you.

Gijs Reulen

> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> Van: Chris Withers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Verzonden: zondag 20 augustus 2000 11:48
> Aan: Gijs Reulen
> CC: Mailinglist Zope
> Onderwerp: Re: [Zope] ZPatterns 0.4.1snap1 + LoginManager 0.8.7a1 + Zope
> 2.1.6 + Win2000
>
>
> Gijs Reulen wrote:
> Files\Zope_216\lib\python\Products\ZPatterns\Proxy.py",
> > line 2, in ?
> > from AccessControl import getSecurityManager
> > ImportError: cannot import name getSecurityManager
>
> It looks like 0.4.1snap1 needs Zope 2.2 for the new Security interface.
> I see from the path you're using 2.1.6, I suspect that's the problem.
>
> cheers,
>
> Chris
>


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Re: [Zope] ZPatterns 0.4.1snap1 + LoginManager 0.8.7a1 + Zope 2.1.6 + Win2000

[Chris Withers]

Gijs Reulen wrote:
Files\Zope_216\lib\python\Products\ZPatterns\Proxy.py",
> line 2, in ?
> from AccessControl import getSecurityManager
> ImportError: cannot import name getSecurityManager

It looks like 0.4.1snap1 needs Zope 2.2 for the new Security interface.
I see from the path you're using 2.1.6, I suspect that's the problem.

cheers,

Chris

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[Zope] ZPatterns 0.4.1snap1 + LoginManager 0.8.7a1 + Zope 2.1.6 + Win2000

[Gijs Reulen]

Hello

I have installed ZPaterns 0.4.1snap1 with a Dynpersist.pyd (compiled for
Win32) I found on zope.org. And then installed the LoginManager. However,
LoginManager appears broken when looking at the installed Products. It shows
the traceback below. The problems seems to be in Zpatterns. Has anybody ever
installed ZPatterns successfully on Win32 ? Which versions ? Any ideas or
solutions ?!

Gijs Reulen

LoginManager Import Traceback
Traceback (innermost last):
  File "C:\PROGRA~1\ZOPE_216\lib\python\OFS\Application.py", line 387, in
import_products
product=__import__(pname, global_dict, global_dict, silly)
  File "C:\Program
Files\Zope_216\lib\python\Products\LoginManager\__init__.py", line 1, in ?
import LoginManager, LoginMethods, UserSources
  File "C:\Program
Files\Zope_216\lib\python\Products\LoginManager\LoginManager.py", line 7, in
?
from Products.ZPatterns.PlugIns import PlugInGroup
  File "C:\Program
Files\Zope_216\lib\python\Products\ZPatterns\__init__.py", line 1, in ?
import Rack, Specialists, Customizers, AttributeProviders,
SheetProviders
  File "C:\Program Files\Zope_216\lib\python\Products\ZPatterns\Rack.py",
line 1, in ?
from DataManagers import DataManager
  File "C:\Program
Files\Zope_216\lib\python\Products\ZPatterns\DataManagers.py", line 7, in ?
from AttributeProviders import AttributeProvider
  File "C:\Program
Files\Zope_216\lib\python\Products\ZPatterns\AttributeProviders.py", line 1,
in ?
from Proxy import ProxyManager
  File "C:\Program Files\Zope_216\lib\python\Products\ZPatterns\Proxy.py",
line 2, in ?
from AccessControl import getSecurityManager
ImportError: cannot import name getSecurityManager



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[Zope] ZPatterns Question

[RC Compaan]

I created a ZClass called "Product" with Dataskin as baseclass.

I also added a specialist called ProductManager containing a default rack.
Under storage for the rack I selected the newly created Product ZClass.

My product ZClass needs to query both a RDBMS and the ZODB for
attributevalues.  At this point I get lost.
I guess i should add an attributeprovider plug-in???

What should go into the fromexpr and attrsexprs properties of the
attributeprovider?  Should one add an attributeprovider for each attribute
of the product?

Roché



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Re: [Zope] ZPatterns make problem part2

[Owen Smith]

Solved that one had to install ExtensionClass from the zope source.

Owen Smith wrote:

> I installed the dev version of python which solved my first problem but
> when I do a make I get this
>
> zope@phonix:/usr/local/dc/zope/lib/python/Products/ZPatterns$ make
> gcc -fPIC  -I../../ZODB -I../../../Components/ExtensionClass -g -O2
> -I/usr/include/python1.5 -I/usr/include/python1.5 -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -c
> ./DynPersist.c
> In file included from ./DynPersist.c:1:
> ../../ZODB/cPersistence.h:89: ExtensionClass.h: No such file or
> directory
> make: *** [DynPersist.o] Error 1


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[Zope] ZPatterns make problem part2

[Owen Smith]

I installed the dev version of python which solved my first problem but
when I do a make I get this

zope@phonix:/usr/local/dc/zope/lib/python/Products/ZPatterns$ make
gcc -fPIC  -I../../ZODB -I../../../Components/ExtensionClass -g -O2
-I/usr/include/python1.5 -I/usr/include/python1.5 -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -c
./DynPersist.c
In file included from ./DynPersist.c:1:
../../ZODB/cPersistence.h:89: ExtensionClass.h: No such file or
directory
make: *** [DynPersist.o] Error 1

Am I missing something? / the point!?
reading http://www.digicool.com/releases/ExtensionClass/ it says that
ExtensionClass  is part of Zope
and I cant find any mention of this on zope.org

Thanks
Owen



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Re: [Zope] Zpatterns makefile problem

[R. David Murray]

On Mon, 31 Jul 2000, Owen Smith wrote:
> make[1]: *** No rule to make target
> `/usr/lib/python1.5/config/Makefile', needed by `sedscript'.  Stop.
> make[1]: Leaving directory
> `/usr/local/dc/zope/lib/python/Products/ZPatterns'
> make: *** [boot] Error 2
> 
> Where am I going wrong?
> I know /usr/lib/python1.5/config/ doesnt exist so I tried

You need to install the source or development version of Python, to
get that missing file.

This is a Zope/ZPattern's FAQ .

--RDM


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[Zope] Zpatterns makefile problem

[Owen Smith]

Hello
Having a problem doing the Make file bit for ZPatterns

zope@phonix:/usr/local/dc/zope/lib/python/Products/ZPatterns$ make -f
Makefile.pre.in boot
rm -f *.o *~
rm -f *.a tags TAGS config.c Makefile.pre python sedscript
rm -f *.so *.sl so_locations
VERSION=`python -c "import sys; print sys.version[:3]"`; \
installdir=`python -c "import sys; print sys.prefix"`; \
exec_installdir=`python -c "import sys; print sys.exec_prefix"`; \
make -f ./Makefile.pre.in VPATH=. srcdir=. \
VERSION=$VERSION \
installdir=$installdir \
exec_installdir=$exec_installdir \
Makefile
make[1]: Entering directory
`/usr/local/dc/zope/lib/python/Products/ZPatterns'
make[1]: *** No rule to make target
`/usr/lib/python1.5/config/Makefile', needed by `sedscript'.  Stop.
make[1]: Leaving directory
`/usr/local/dc/zope/lib/python/Products/ZPatterns'
make: *** [boot] Error 2

Where am I going wrong?
I know /usr/lib/python1.5/config/ doesnt exist so I tried

zope@phonix:/usr/local/dc/zope/lib/python/Products/ZPatterns$  make -f
Makefile.pre.in Makefile VERSION=1.5 installdir=/usr/local/dc/zope
make: *** No rule to make target
`/usr/local/dc/zope/lib/python1.5/config/Makefile', needed by
`sedscript'.  Stop.

any help much appreciated

Owen
newbie:)





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Re: [Zope] ZPatterns and LoginManager

[Mathias Bengtsson]

That's right. Copy the Makefile.pree.in.boot from the python library in
your zope. Then do as you said yourself. run make -f Makefile.pre.in
boot, then run make. Then your'e home free

/Mathias

Demos Economacos wrote:

> > To: Mathias Bengtsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> > I am still having a little trouble - I am newbie, so
> > please excuse my dumb questions :)
> >
> > When I do the make, I get
> > make: *** No rule to make target `DynPersist.c',
> > needed by `DynPersist.o'.  Stop
> >
> > I am not sure, but am I supposed to copy the
> > Makefile.pre.in from ZPatterns to python library two
> > levels above - and then run the make -f
> > Makefile.pre.in boot from ZPatterns?
> >
> > Thanks for your help!
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Mathias Bengtsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > When I installed ZPatterns. I first untared in
> > zope
> > > root as usual.  Then
> > > standing in the
> > > /zope/lib/python/Products/ZPatterns/  library i da
> > a
> > > copy of the
> > > makefile two steps above
> > > cp ../../Makefil
> > *** MESSAGE TRUNCATED ***
> >
>
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[Zope] ZPatterns and LoginManager

[Demos Economacos]

> To: Mathias Bengtsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> I am still having a little trouble - I am newbie, so
> please excuse my dumb questions :) 
> 
> When I do the make, I get 
> make: *** No rule to make target `DynPersist.c',
> needed by `DynPersist.o'.  Stop
> 
> I am not sure, but am I supposed to copy the
> Makefile.pre.in from ZPatterns to python library two
> levels above - and then run the make -f
> Makefile.pre.in boot from ZPatterns?
> 
> Thanks for your help! 
> 
> 
> 
> --- Mathias Bengtsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > When I installed ZPatterns. I first untared in
> zope
> > root as usual.  Then
> > standing in the
> > /zope/lib/python/Products/ZPatterns/  library i da
> a
> > copy of the
> > makefile two steps above
> > cp ../../Makefil
> *** MESSAGE TRUNCATED ***
> 


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[Zope] ZPatterns and LoginManager

[Demos Economacos]

> To: Mathias Bengtsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> I am still having a little trouble - I am newbie, so
> please excuse my dumb questions :) 
> 
> When I do the make, I get 
> make: *** No rule to make target `DynPersist.c',
> needed by `DynPersist.o'.  Stop
> 
> I am not sure, but am I supposed to copy the
> Makefile.pre.in from ZPatterns to python library two
> levels above - and then run the make -f
> Makefile.pre.in boot from ZPatterns?
> 
> Thanks for your help! 
> 
> 
> 
> --- Mathias Bengtsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > When I installed ZPatterns. I first untared in
> zope
> > root as usual.  Then
> > standing in the
> > /zope/lib/python/Products/ZPatterns/  library i da
> a
> > copy of the
> > makefile two steps above
> > cp ../../Makefil
> *** MESSAGE TRUNCATED ***
> 


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Re: [Zope] ZPatterns: Deleting objects from a Rack?

[Bill Anderson]

Chris Withers wrote:
> 
> Bill Anderson wrote:
> > What happens when the object is in multiple racks?
> > (Assuming it is possible)
> 
> Then it'll be missing if something tries to get it from a rack. The same
> thing as would happen if something tried to get it from a single rack
> after it'd been deleted. So this case should be covered anywhere as it's
> essentially 'what happens if an object that doesn't exist is requested
> from a rack?'

Actually I was thinking of the case where it may, or may not, need to
delete itss elf from multiple racks it sits in.

> That said, can you give em an example where it would eb useful to have
> one object stored in multiple racks?

Not quite sure, but I get a feeling some of the advanced ideas for
portal content could make use of it. It's just a gut feeling, I'm still
wrapping my brain around ZPatterns . ;) Lemme think about it, I am sure
I can come up with one or two. As to whether there would be any
advantage to it, would be another thing.

ISTR someone talking about possibly using multiple racks recently.

-- 
"Linux: the operating system with a CLUE...
Command Line User Environment".

seen in a posting on comp.software.testing

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Re: [Zope] ZPatterns: Deleting objects from a Rack?

[Chris Withers]

Scott Parish wrote:
> Another thought i just had was that if you deleted by placing a call to the
> Rack, then you couldn't allow the class to override manage_delete.  You might
> want to do such (overriding) if you wanted it to clean up a catalog or perform
> some other auxiliary function before disappearing.

What class are you talking about? ;-)

This is why I said it might be useful for the rack's delete just to call
delete on the object. I think this is me going on about the demeter's
Law thing again...

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope] ZPatterns: Deleting objects from a Rack?

[Chris Withers]

Bill Anderson wrote:
> What happens when the object is in multiple racks?
> (Assuming it is possible)

Then it'll be missing if something tries to get it from a rack. The same
thing as would happen if something tried to get it from a single rack
after it'd been deleted. So this case should be covered anywhere as it's
essentially 'what happens if an object that doesn't exist is requested
from a rack?'

That said, can you give em an example where it would eb useful to have
one object stored in multiple racks?

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope] ZPatterns: Deleting objects from a Rack?

[Scott Parish]

Thus spake Chris Withers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

> Scott Parish wrote:
> > I'm not entirely clear how
> > asking the object to delete itself in this case is going to improve the
> > situation over just asking the rack to, but I think that was the intent.
> 
> Okay, I see the intent now too, but I agree with you that I can't see
> what advantage asking the object to delete itself provides. Could
> someone explain please?
> 
> Furthermore, even if there was an advantage to this, why can't the
> rack's delete method just be piped through to the object's delete
> method? (which I thought was common practice with Specialists)
> 

Another thought i just had was that if you deleted by placing a call to the
Rack, then you couldn't allow the class to override manage_delete.  You might
want to do such (overriding) if you wanted it to clean up a catalog or perform
some other auxiliary function before disappearing.

sRp

-- 
Scott Parish
http://srparish.net

 PGP signature

Re: [Zope] ZPatterns: Deleting objects from a Rack?

[Bill Anderson]

Chris Withers wrote:
> 
> Scott Parish wrote:
> > I'm not entirely clear how
> > asking the object to delete itself in this case is going to improve the
> > situation over just asking the rack to, but I think that was the intent.
> 
> Okay, I see the intent now too, but I agree with you that I can't see
> what advantage asking the object to delete itself provides. Could
> someone explain please?
> 
> Furthermore, even if there was an advantage to this, why can't the
> rack's delete method just be piped through to the object's delete
> method? (which I thought was common practice with Specialists)
> 
> cheers,

What happens when the object is in multiple racks?
(Assuming it is possible)

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Re: [Zope] ZPatterns: Deleting objects from a Rack?

[Chris Withers]

Scott Parish wrote:
> I'm not entirely clear how
> asking the object to delete itself in this case is going to improve the
> situation over just asking the rack to, but I think that was the intent.

Okay, I see the intent now too, but I agree with you that I can't see
what advantage asking the object to delete itself provides. Could
someone explain please?

Furthermore, even if there was an advantage to this, why can't the
rack's delete method just be piped through to the object's delete
method? (which I thought was common practice with Specialists)

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope] ZPatterns: Deleting objects from a Rack?

[Scott Parish]

Thus spake Chris Withers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

> Ty Sarna wrote:
> > call the manage_delete() method on the object. That is, you ask the
> > object to delete itself.
> 
> This seems unnecessarily long-winded to me. What are the reasons for it
> being like this? (examples are good... ;-)
> 
> > However, once you have the object, operations on the object should be
> > done as methods on the object.
> 
> I'm sure it's against Demeter's Law (I've read the Wiki ;-) to work this
> way. You should ask the rack to delete an object and it can process this
> how it wants... most often this would be by asking the object to delete
> itself, but maybe it's be more efficient for the rack to just delete the
> object (for example, if the object is actually a row in an SQL table)
> 

I could be mistaken about this, as I'm still having trouble following the
ZPatterns train of thought, but I think the reason that the object needs to
delete itself is that the object may not be stored in a single place.  For
instance, the object might be created from 5 rows from seperate tables in
an SQL db and 2 attributes gotten from LDAP.  I'm not entirely clear how
asking the object to delete itself in this case is going to improve the
situation over just asking the rack to, but I think that was the intent.

sRp

-- 
Scott Parish
http://srparish.net

 PGP signature

Re: [Zope] ZPatterns: Deleting objects from a Rack?

[Chris Withers]

Ty Sarna wrote:
> call the manage_delete() method on the object. That is, you ask the
> object to delete itself.

This seems unnecessarily long-winded to me. What are the reasons for it
being like this? (examples are good... ;-)

> However, once you have the object, operations on the object should be
> done as methods on the object.

I'm sure it's against Demeter's Law (I've read the Wiki ;-) to work this
way. You should ask the rack to delete an object and it can process this
how it wants... most often this would be by asking the object to delete
itself, but maybe it's be more efficient for the rack to just delete the
object (for example, if the object is actually a row in an SQL table)

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope] ZPatterns: Deleting objects from a Rack?

[Ty Sarna]

In article ,
Jeff Hoffman  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> However, search as I might, I cannot figure out how to delete an item
> once it's been created. On gut instinct, I figured there would be a
> deleteItem() to complement the newItem() method. No such luck.
> 
> What am I missing? Is there a management tab I'm not clicking on 
> somewhere? A method I haven't found? A clue I don't have? :-)

call the manage_delete() method on the object. That is, you ask the
object to delete itself.

getItem() and newItem() aren't methods of the objects because it doesn't
make sense...  if you have the item, you don't need to get it.  And you
can't ask an object that doesn't exist yet to create itself :-). 
However, once you have the object, operations on the object should be
done as methods on the object. 

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[Zope] ZPatterns: Deleting objects from a Rack?

[Jeff Hoffman]

Ok, I have a stupid question.

I have succeeded in creating a ZClass (a subclass of DataSkin) and
instantiating a few instances in the defaultRack of my Specialist using
my Specialist's newItem() method. Rock.

However, search as I might, I cannot figure out how to delete an item
once it's been created. On gut instinct, I figured there would be a
deleteItem() to complement the newItem() method. No such luck.

What am I missing? Is there a management tab I'm not clicking on 
somewhere? A method I haven't found? A clue I don't have? :-)

Thanks,

--Jeff

---
Jeff K. Hoffman   704.849.0731 x108
Chief Technology Officer  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Going Virtual, L.L.C. http://www.goingv.com/


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Re: [Zope] ZPatterns, "Hello, world."

[Kevin Dangoor]

Hi,

I don't know of a ZPatterns "Hello, World". I remember feeling quite
pleased when I managed to get a ZClass instance added to a Rack. Of course,
how one would define "Hello, world" in the context of ZPatterns, I'm not
sure. I haven't yet had a chance to use 0.4, so this example won't mention
DataSkins. You could do something like this:

create a ZClass
add a Specialist
add a Rack
set the storage for that Rack to your ZClass
add a PythonMethod to the Specialist that calls newItem(ObjID) and then sets
some properties on that ZClass

Then, you can go to http://yoursite/Specialist/ObjID and take a look at your
ZClass. Congratulations! You've now replicated the functionality of a Folder
:)

(Of course, the Rack uses BTrees, so you can store any number of objects in
there, unlike a Folder.)

Once you have objects in your Rack, you can start playing with attribute
providers and such. Plug-ins still need to be written in Python.

HTH,

Kevin

- Original Message -
From: "Jeff K. Hoffman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 4:35 PM
Subject: [Zope] ZPatterns, "Hello, world."


> I am trying to wrap my head around ZPatterns--I am hoping to use it in a
> project I am currently working on. Unfortunately, I'm not doing too well.
> :-)
>
> Is there a, "Hello ZPatterns World." example out there, anywhere, that
> shows the simplest usage of the framework? It would do me tremendous good
> to see a working example.



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[Zope] ZPatterns DynPersist module for Win32

[Jeff K. Hoffman]

Hello,

I just wanted to note that I have built the ZPatterns (0.4.0a1) DynPersist
module for Win32 using MSVC.

If anyone would like a copy, just e-mail me and I'll be happy to pass it
along.

--Jeff

---
Jeff K. Hoffman   704.849.0731 x108
Chief Technology Officer  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Going Virtual, L.L.C. http://www.goingv.com/


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[Zope] ZPatterns, "Hello, world."

[Jeff K. Hoffman]

Hello,

I am trying to wrap my head around ZPatterns--I am hoping to use it in a
project I am currently working on. Unfortunately, I'm not doing too well.
:-)

Is there a, "Hello ZPatterns World." example out there, anywhere, that
shows the simplest usage of the framework? It would do me tremendous good
to see a working example.

Thanks,

--Jeff

---
Jeff K. Hoffman   704.849.0731 x108
Chief Technology Officer  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Going Virtual, L.L.C. http://www.goingv.com/


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Re: [Zope] ZPatterns 0.3.0

[Peter Simmons]

Thanks but, I did a find and I can't find the file anywhere in the
 zope install. Does anyone know where I should look? Is it in the python
 dir or some part of python, I tried looking in there too but couldn't find
 it.

Perhaps I need some other product?

Thanks for any help,
Pete

Monty Taylor wrote:


If you're running from the RPM install, I believe it puts the Components
dir somewhere else. (Can't remember, though)

For what it's worth...
Monty

Peter Simmons wrote:
> 
> Hi Guys,
> 
> I was trying to setup ZPatterns 0.3.0 and I got up to making the
> extension DynPersistc. I had run  "make -f Makefile.pre.in boot" and
> then I ran "make" but an error occured saying that ExtensionClass.h
> couldn't be found.
> 
> If anyone knows what is wrong I would much appreciate it.
> 
> The only other thing I can tell you (and I don't know if it means
> anything) is that it seemed to be looking for ExtensionClass in teh
> /lib/Components dir and there is no Components dir there,
> perhaps I need to add something to my Zope install.
> 
> Cheers,
> Pete
> 
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Re: [Zope] ZPatterns 0.3.0

[Monty Taylor]

If you're running from the RPM install, I believe it puts the Components
dir somewhere else. (Can't remember, though)

For what it's worth...
Monty

Peter Simmons wrote:
> 
> Hi Guys,
> 
> I was trying to setup ZPatterns 0.3.0 and I got up to making the
> extension DynPersistc. I had run  "make -f Makefile.pre.in boot" and
> then I ran "make" but an error occured saying that ExtensionClass.h
> couldn't be found.
> 
> If anyone knows what is wrong I would much appreciate it.
> 
> The only other thing I can tell you (and I don't know if it means
> anything) is that it seemed to be looking for ExtensionClass in teh
> /lib/Components dir and there is no Components dir there,
> perhaps I need to add something to my Zope install.
> 
> Cheers,
> Pete
> 
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[Zope] ZPatterns 0.3.0

[Peter Simmons]

Hi Guys,

I was trying to setup ZPatterns 0.3.0 and I got up to making the
extension DynPersistc. I had run  "make -f Makefile.pre.in boot" and
then I ran "make" but an error occured saying that ExtensionClass.h
couldn't be found.

If anyone knows what is wrong I would much appreciate it.

The only other thing I can tell you (and I don't know if it means
anything) is that it seemed to be looking for ExtensionClass in teh
/lib/Components dir and there is no Components dir there,
perhaps I need to add something to my Zope install.

Cheers,
Pete



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Re: [Zope] ZPatterns and mountable DBs (was FYI: Latest gem appears in CVS)

[Kevin Dangoor]

- Original Message -
From: "Chris Withers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Paul Everitt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2000 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Zope] FYI: Latest gem appears in CVS


> Paul Everitt wrote:
> >
> > Howdy folks.  As mentioned previously, a gem is ready to appear in CVS:
> > mountable databases.
>
> Does this mean the monolithic data.fs problem, and hence the 2GB
> filesize problem on some systems, has just vanished?

Based on what I read, this would quite possibly fix the 2GB filesize problem
that some OSes have.

> How does this integrate with the ZPatterns stuff?

Interesting question. I would think mountable databases would integrate
nicely with ZPatterns. As it is, the whole Rack model allows you to simply
create a new Rack to get data from different databases. If you make a Rack
that is actually a mount point for another ZODB (maybe a BerkeleyStorage),
you can have that Rack of info stored in a different file with very little
fuss.

Zope just gets more and more flexible every day!

Kevin


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