cember 01, 2001 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Open Letter to zope-dev
> > Where's the $99 version of Zope? The $499? The $1499? The
> > $25999? Zope Corp hasn't pulled that card out like many other
> > vendors have. There are actually many pieces of Zope that wer
ROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 05:34
Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Open Letter to zope-dev
On Sat, 1 Dec 2001 08:50:14 -0500, "Andreas Jung"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Also I had expect some input of the community regarding at unicode
Clearly this is a situation that has broken down. I'll suggest a
resolution in a private note to you in a sec.
--Paul
Toby Dickenson wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Dec 2001 08:50:14 -0500, "Andreas Jung"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>>Also I had expect some input of the community regarding at unic
On Sat, 1 Dec 2001 08:50:14 -0500, "Andreas Jung"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Also I had expect some input of the community regarding at unicode support
>inside Zope. But there has been no feedback. It looks like no one needs
>unicode support in Zope ?! :-)
I see the smiley, but Im still not sur
Message -
From: "Paul Everitt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Robert Rottermann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: core i18n support (was [Zope-dev] Open Letter to zope-dev)
>
> As both Robert
t is about to be rectified it might
>> be now the time to do a second such compilation and then start "doing"
>> it.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> - Original Message -----
>>
>> From: "Andreas Jung" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: &qu
Robert Rottermann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: core i18n support (was [Zope-dev] Open Letter to zope-dev)
>
> As both Robert and Joachim (in another message) have noted, core i18n
> support is blocked b
;
> - Original Message -
>
> From: "Andreas Jung" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Joachim Werner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Paul Everitt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> "Robert Rottermann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL
Clark O'Brien wrote:
>
> In my humble opinion if the open source process had
> been allowed to progress unfettered by corporate greed
> Zope would even now have a state of maturity
> that it is not likely to reach even in 10 years of
> development at the current rate.
Oh go back to your troll ho
On Sat, 2001-12-01 at 06:02, Joachim Werner wrote:
> Hi!
>
> > > This is a totally different business model than the one Zope Corp. is
> using
> > > right now, but it might help refinancing the overhead a good community
> needs
> > > to have ...
> >
> >
> > Would it have to be done by ZC?
>
> No
obert
- Original Message -
From: "Clark O'Brien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Joachim Werner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Andy Dawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Zope-dev]
If anyone has seen how open source works, there is
usually a strong core team - like the ZC folks- who
provide direction to the project. There are also
dozens if not hundreds of enthusiastic folks who are
less involved but contribute features, patches, bug
fixes, documentation ...
Despite the fa
PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Open Letter to zope-dev
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Joachim Werner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Paul Everitt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Of course there are hot spots. I have asked multiple times for help on the
> mailing
> lists and the Eurozope site to identify such related hot spots.
> Also I had expect some input of the community regarding at unicode support
> inside Zope. But there has been no feedback. It looks like no one
- Original Message -
From: "Joachim Werner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Paul Everitt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Robert Rottermann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 08:22
Subject: Re: [Zope-d
> The second is pretty exciting as well. I saw a presentation in Paris by
> Juan David Palomar, of Localizer fame. (The presentation is now up at
> http://estce.act.uji.es:9673/localizer). The presentation impressed me
> on the need to get someone into the core of Zope that knows all these
> de
Hi!
> > This is a totally different business model than the one Zope Corp. is
using
> > right now, but it might help refinancing the overhead a good community
needs
> > to have ...
>
>
> Would it have to be done by ZC?
No, of course not.
And there could be more than one of course (though we'd n
Agreed completely on both of those points. There's double good news on
both:
1) Someone plans to do something about it.
2) Both are with community involvement.
On documentation, someone in the community has committed to taking over
the Documentation page on zope.org and finally organizing t
Friends,first thing I want is to express my
huge gratitude to have something like Zope and its community. I
have read all the all the mail that has been stirred by "that" open letter.I
agree very much and I am willing to contribute as much as I can that zope should
grow 10x.I found two thing
> It is the people who are in the trenches who are increasingly being
> disaffected by Zope Corp, it seems as if you're not subscribed to
> zope-dev, you have no voice, and for most people zope-dev is not an
> appropriate forum for them to be subscribed to.
This reminds me of the story, Swimmy
...
> This is a totally different business model than the one Zope Corp. is using
> right now, but it might help refinancing the overhead a good community needs
> to have ...
Would it have to be done by ZC?
___
Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTE
He's also on #zope, chatting and supporting :)
On Saturday 01 December 2001 02:02, Paul Everitt wrote:
> Chris was just drinking a beer with us at Orbit's twenty minutes ago,
> and now he's responding to email on a Friday night. That's just sick.
> I don't think your boss fully appreciates you,
Chris was just drinking a beer with us at Orbit's twenty minutes ago,
and now he's responding to email on a Friday night. That's just sick.
I don't think your boss fully appreciates you, number 27. :^)
--Paul
Chris McDonough wrote:
>> The session management framework (formerly known as
>>
> The session management framework (formerly known as CoreSessionTracking, now
> it is in the core and just called Session) is another example, if my first
> look was right. The API seems to have changed a lot between the last CST and
> the final Session release that is part of 2.5 beta. O.k., the
> Where's the $99 version of Zope? The $499? The $1499? The
> $25999? Zope Corp hasn't pulled that card out like many other
> vendors have. There are actually many pieces of Zope that were
> initially commercial add-ons (or intended to be) that are now all
> open source.
I sometimes have the
Hi Paul!
> I don't want to replace one group of people with a busy agenda with
> another group of people with a busy agenda. We need a small group of
> people that are willing to make a long-term commitment to
> responsibility. These people can then tap into others that can commit
> on an as-ne
I seem to have to comment on most of the mails in this thread. Sorry for
that ;-)
> Personally, I think ZC are trying very hard, but are not getting it
> right. I'm also very sure they are taking this conversation
> seriously. Brian responded very quickly to the userfolder 'api'
> issues. They
> > Noone from Zope Corp seems to monitor the list to help out.
> That is not my experience at all. I have received answers from Zope corps
> several times. But sure, most of the answers you get come from the
community
> members. Thats what a community is all about, and thats the hallmark of a
>
Hi!
> To be honest i would be happy for Zope 3 not to be backwards
> compatible. Tidy it up, delete the unless code, dare i say it -
> refactor. Yes so my products will break, well half a days refactoring
> myself and i have a tidier more understandable project anyway.
YES, we need a new start
Andrew Kenneth Milton writes:
>
> It is the people who are in the trenches who are increasingly being
> disaffected by Zope Corp, it seems as if you're not subscribed to zope-dev,
> you have no voice, and for most people zope-dev is not an appropriate forum
> for them to be subscribed
On Friday, November 30, 2001, at 04:18 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote:
> What I do agree on is that Zope corp not always seem to *listen* to the
> community. It is hard to contribute to Zope, and it feels to me
> that you
> have to fight to make Zope Corp to things the right way, even when
> you i
On Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:28:44 +, Steve Alexander
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Does the fishbowl process address what you said about having to fight to
>get things done the right way, even when you've already produced the
>code, and making up for people's lack of time to do everything?
In my
seb bacon wrote:
> If we think we're a community, then we should all be responsible for
> building on it. I think we should have a conversation about what
> makes a community work, and then come up with some positive
> suggestions about improving the community *ourselves*. ZC will
> follow,
Lennart Regebro wrote:
> What I do agree on is that Zope corp not always seem to *listen* to the
> community. It is hard to contribute to Zope, and it feels to me that you
> have to fight to make Zope Corp to things the right way, even when you in
> fact already have done the work for them. I don
First, I have to thank you for sparking a long-overdue conversation.
It's true that we at ZC have been staring at our navels for a while.
Though it's reasonable for us to pay first attention to those paying us
money, it can become short-sighted. As you pointed out, everyone in
Zope needs Zope to
Lennart Regebro wrote:
>>
>> Does the fishbowl process address this for you?
>>
>> http://dev.zope.org/Fishbowl/Introduction.html
>
> I'm aware of the fishbowl process.
Sorry, I wasn't clear with my question.
Does the fishbowl process address what you said about having to fight to
get thi
From: "Steve Alexander" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Does the fishbowl process address this for you?
>
>http://dev.zope.org/Fishbowl/Introduction.html
I'm aware of the fishbowl process.
___
Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.zope.org/m
At 10:10 AM 11/30/2001 +, Andy Dawkins wrote:
>To be honest i would be happy for Zope 3 not to be backwards
>compatible. Tidy it up, delete the unless code, dare i say it -
>refactor. Yes so my products will break, well half a days refactoring
>myself and i have a tidier more understandable
* Lennart Regebro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [011130 11:24]:
> From: "Andrew Kenneth Milton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Noone from Zope Corp seems to monitor the list to help out.
>
> That is not my experience at all. I have received answers from Zope corps
> several times. But sure, most of the answers yo
Lennart Regebro wrote:
>
> What I do agree on is that Zope corp not always seem to *listen* to the
> community. It is hard to contribute to Zope, and it feels to me that you
> have to fight to make Zope Corp to things the right way, even when you in
> fact already have done the work for them. I
From: "Andrew Kenneth Milton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Noone from Zope Corp seems to monitor the list to help out.
That is not my experience at all. I have received answers from Zope corps
several times. But sure, most of the answers you get come from the community
members. Thats what a community is
My Two Cents
I don't regularly post to zope-dev, simply because there are many other
people in the zope community who can answer the questions just as well i
as could. But i remain subscribed, reading an post that catch my
attention.
I have read Mr. Milton's posts carefully, and although i sens
Since I seem to be the cause of all hell breaking loose over here, I thought
take the opportunity to respond, since I haven't really been given an
opportunity to do that. Since this probably going to be my only ever
posting to zope-dev, I don't feel constrained to be brief in exercising my
right
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