Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-20 Thread Andi Zeidler
On Aug 20, 2012, at 3:08 , Martin Aspeli optilude+li...@gmail.com wrote: I think Jens is right to point out the legal concerns, which many of us don't fully understand. I think it might have been more effective had it pointed out why people should care, rather than just saying this is the

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-20 Thread Alex Clark
On 2012-08-20 08:15:55 +, Andi Zeidler said: On Aug 20, 2012, at 3:08 , Martin Aspeli optilude+li...@gmail.com wrote: I think Jens is right to point out the legal concerns, which many of us don't fully understand. I think it might have been more effective had it pointed out why people

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-19 Thread Jens Vagelpohl
On Aug 18, 2012, at 21:46 , Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, but my question is why this changes with github. GitHub is a third party infrastructure run by other people. I cannot ascertain how well it enforces our requirement that all checkins must be from signed contributors

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-19 Thread Jens Vagelpohl
On Aug 19, 2012, at 0:01 , Alex Clark acl...@aclark.net wrote: Hi Jens, On 2012-08-18 07:49:59 +, Jens Vagelpohl said: Hi Alex, Please revert this checkin. You can't just take core software pieces from Zope Foundation-hosted repositories and move them somewhere else. Thanks! I

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-19 Thread Jens Vagelpohl
On Aug 19, 2012, at 3:58 , Alex Clark acl...@aclark.net wrote: IANAL but from my perspective the legitimate issue here is that Domen Kožar has not signed the Zope Contributor's Agreement, but Jim has added him to the Buildout organization on GitHub and he has been committing fixes. If I

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-19 Thread Martin Aspeli
On 19 August 2012 08:00, Jens Vagelpohl j...@dataflake.org wrote: On Aug 19, 2012, at 3:58 , Alex Clark acl...@aclark.net wrote: IANAL but from my perspective the legitimate issue here is that Domen Kožar has not signed the Zope Contributor's Agreement, but Jim has added him to the

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-19 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Jens Vagelpohl j...@dataflake.org wrote: On Aug 18, 2012, at 21:46 , Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, but my question is why this changes with github. GitHub is a third party infrastructure run by other people. I cannot ascertain how well it

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-19 Thread Jens Vagelpohl
On Aug 19, 2012, at 10:17 , Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote: And since it becomes ever easier to accept code from unknown sources (e.g. pull requests) legal code ownership becomes an issue again. And that returns me to my first question: Is it really legally different for a

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-19 Thread Robert Niederreiter
On 19.08.2012 10:30, Jens Vagelpohl wrote: On Aug 19, 2012, at 10:17 , Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote: And since it becomes ever easier to accept code from unknown sources (e.g. pull requests) legal code ownership becomes an issue again. And that returns me to my first question:

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-19 Thread Jens Vagelpohl
On Aug 19, 2012, at 10:55 , Robert Niederreiter r...@squarewave.at wrote: https://github.com/Pylons/pyramid/blob/master/CONTRIBUTORS.txt btw - pyramid seem to have a very pragmatic approach for the signing process ;) An approach I doubt will hold up in a court of law. We require and have

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-19 Thread Robert Niederreiter
On 19.08.2012 12:16, Jens Vagelpohl wrote: On Aug 19, 2012, at 10:55 , Robert Niederreiter r...@squarewave.at wrote: https://github.com/Pylons/pyramid/blob/master/CONTRIBUTORS.txt btw - pyramid seem to have a very pragmatic approach for the signing process ;) An approach I doubt will hold

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-19 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Jens Vagelpohl j...@dataflake.org wrote: Speaking for myself as ZF representative, it is my duty to make sure that chain of custody for the code is upheld and safeguarded. Convenience, which I feel is driving the move towards GitHub, is nice to have. But I

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-19 Thread Wichert Akkerman
On 2012-8-19 12:59, Robert Niederreiter wrote: On 19.08.2012 12:16, Jens Vagelpohl wrote: Done by a contributor with some clear gesture from the non-contributor that code ownership is going into the hands of that contributor. How does this 'clear gesture' from the non-contributor look like

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-19 Thread Alex Clark
Hi On 2012-08-19 11:05:39 +, Lennart Regebro said: On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Jens Vagelpohl j...@dataflake.org wrote: Speaking for myself as ZF representative, it is my duty to make sure that chain of custody for the code is upheld and safeguarded. Convenience, which I feel is

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-19 Thread Tres Seaver
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 08/18/2012 09:24 PM, Lennart Regebro wrote: On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 11:03 PM, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote: Because the ability to check into svn.zope.org is based on a chain of custody managed by the ZF (web account, verified e-mail

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-19 Thread Tres Seaver
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 08/18/2012 09:58 PM, Alex Clark wrote: Hi, On 2012-08-19 01:24:31 +, Lennart Regebro said: On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 11:03 PM, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote: Because the ability to check into svn.zope.org is based on a chain

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-19 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 5:49 PM, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote: The point is that the identity of the committer on Github is not tied to the ZF's machinery for contributions, which means that it cannot be used to preserve the chain of custody under the contributor agreement. What

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-19 Thread Alex Clark
Hi Tres, On 2012-08-19 15:52:52 +, Tres Seaver said: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 08/18/2012 09:58 PM, Alex Clark wrote: Hi, On 2012-08-19 01:24:31 +, Lennart Regebro said: On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 11:03 PM, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote: Because the

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-19 Thread Alex Clark
Hi Jens, On 2012-08-19 06:51:47 +, Jens Vagelpohl said: On Aug 19, 2012, at 0:01 , Alex Clark acl...@aclark.net wrote: Hi Jens, On 2012-08-18 07:49:59 +, Jens Vagelpohl said: Hi Alex, Please revert this checkin. You can't just take core software pieces from Zope Foundation-hosted

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-19 Thread Ross Patterson
Robert Niederreiter r...@squarewave.at writes: On 19.08.2012 10:30, Jens Vagelpohl wrote: On Aug 19, 2012, at 10:17 , Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote: And since it becomes ever easier to accept code from unknown sources (e.g. pull requests) legal code ownership becomes an issue

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-19 Thread Martin Aspeli
On 20 August 2012 01:44, Ross Patterson m...@rpatterson.net wrote: For me the discussion sounds a little like a general denial against github using the legal story as rationale. +10. I'm so glad others are saying the things I think need saying. I *am* a signed ZF contributor and from

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-18 Thread Jens Vagelpohl
Hi Alex, Please revert this checkin. You can't just take core software pieces from Zope Foundation-hosted repositories and move them somewhere else. Thanks! jens On Aug 18, 2012, at 3:09 , J. Alexander Clark cvs-ad...@zope.org wrote: Log message for revision 127519: Moved to github

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-18 Thread Hanno Schlichting
Please note that development of buildout 2 happens on github since April this year. The buildout developers decided to do the move after Jim suggested it. Legally you could see this move as a fork, but it was done by Jim and others. Alex just wanted to clarify the situation and also move the

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-18 Thread Jens Vagelpohl
Hi Hanno, Legally this must be a fork then and I'm not sure it can be released as official Zope Foundation software anymore if you make releases from GitHub. Reason: the ZF can no longer ascertain that only official ZF contributor agreement signers have modified code in the package, which is a

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-18 Thread Wichert Akkerman
On 2012-8-18 10:39, Jens Vagelpohl wrote: Hi Hanno, Legally this must be a fork then and I'm not sure it can be released as official Zope Foundation software anymore if you make releases from GitHub. Doesn't the name zc.buildout imply that it is a Zope Corp project instead of a Zope

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-18 Thread Fred Drake
On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 6:46 AM, Wichert Akkerman wich...@wiggy.net wrote: Doesn't the name zc.buildout imply that it is a Zope Corp project instead of a Zope Foundation one? The author has also never been listed as the foundation but Jim personally, which seems to imply zc.buildout never was

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-18 Thread Jean-Paul Smets
Hi, I approve your position Jens. Moving to git can make sense. Moving to github as primary platform does not make sense. Github is a proprietary platform. There is really no justification in using a proprietary platform for open source projects, especially considering that many open

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-18 Thread Chris Withers
Hi Jens, On 18/08/2012 09:39, Jens Vagelpohl wrote: Legally this must be a fork then and I'm not sure it can be released as official Zope Foundation software anymore if you make releases from GitHub. Reason: the ZF can no longer ascertain that only official ZF contributor agreement signers

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-18 Thread Chris Withers
I'm not going to dignify this with a fuller response other than to say that Jean-Paul Smets' entire email is nothing but bullshit written to try and promote an inferior competing product ;-) Chris On 18/08/2012 13:31, Jean-Paul Smets wrote: Hi, I approve your position Jens. Moving to git

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-18 Thread Charlie Clark
Am 18.08.2012, 15:35 Uhr, schrieb Chris Withers ch...@simplistix.co.uk: I'm not going to dignify this with a fuller response other than to say that Jean-Paul Smets' entire email is nothing but bullshit written to try and promote an inferior competing product. The issues of hosting and vcs

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-18 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 10:39 AM, Jens Vagelpohl j...@dataflake.org wrote: Legally this must be a fork then and I'm not sure it can be released as official Zope Foundation software anymore if you make releases from GitHub. Reason: the ZF can no longer ascertain that only official ZF

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-18 Thread Jens Vagelpohl
On Aug 18, 2012, at 12:46 , Wichert Akkerman wich...@wiggy.net wrote: On 2012-8-18 10:39, Jens Vagelpohl wrote: Hi Hanno, Legally this must be a fork then and I'm not sure it can be released as official Zope Foundation software anymore if you make releases from GitHub. Doesn't the name

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-18 Thread Jens Vagelpohl
On Aug 18, 2012, at 14:31 , Jean-Paul Smets j...@nexedi.com wrote: Hi, I approve your position Jens. Moving to git can make sense. Moving to github as primary platform does not make sense. Hi Jean-Paul, Technical pros and cons are valid arguments, correct, but that wasn't my point

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-18 Thread Jens Vagelpohl
On Aug 18, 2012, at 15:46 , Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 10:39 AM, Jens Vagelpohl j...@dataflake.org wrote: Legally this must be a fork then and I'm not sure it can be released as official Zope Foundation software anymore if you make releases from GitHub.

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-18 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 9:36 PM, Jens Vagelpohl j...@dataflake.org wrote: On Aug 18, 2012, at 15:46 , Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 10:39 AM, Jens Vagelpohl j...@dataflake.org wrote: Legally this must be a fork then and I'm not sure it can be released as

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-18 Thread Tres Seaver
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 08/18/2012 03:46 PM, Lennart Regebro wrote: On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 9:36 PM, Jens Vagelpohl j...@dataflake.org wrote: The contributor agreement requires you as the contributor to be able to enter into the contract with the Zope Foundation

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-18 Thread Tres Seaver
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 08/18/2012 03:18 PM, Jens Vagelpohl wrote: But removing stuff from svn.zope.org requires approval from you as the original owner *and* the ZF as legal co-owner of anything stored on svn.zope.org. Actually, it requires the permission of the ZF.

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-18 Thread Alex Clark
Hi Jens, On 2012-08-18 07:49:59 +, Jens Vagelpohl said: Hi Alex, Please revert this checkin. You can't just take core software pieces from Zope Foundation-hosted repositories and move them somewhere else. Thanks! I think you are confused. I would suggest you ask Jim Fulton about

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-18 Thread Alex Clark
Hi On 2012-08-18 22:01:51 +, Alex Clark said: Hi Jens, On 2012-08-18 07:49:59 +, Jens Vagelpohl said: Hi Alex, Please revert this checkin. You can't just take core software pieces from Zope Foundation-hosted repositories and move them somewhere else. Thanks! I think you are

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-18 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 11:03 PM, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote: Because the ability to check into svn.zope.org is based on a chain of custody managed by the ZF (web account, verified e-mail address, and SSH key). J. Random Hacker's account on Github has no such chain. Sure, but

Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: zc.buildout/ Moved to github

2012-08-18 Thread Alex Clark
Hi, On 2012-08-19 01:24:31 +, Lennart Regebro said: On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 11:03 PM, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote: Because the ability to check into svn.zope.org is based on a chain of custody managed by the ZF (web account, verified e-mail address, and SSH key). J. Random