VACList DigestVACList-Digest Monday, August 19, 2002 Issue 399
Today's Topics:
1. monitoring
2. Tow vehicle
3. Re: needs help/head fixtures
4. Re: Tow vehicle
5. Poping Rivets on the Front
6. Re: needs help/head fixtures
7. Re: Tow vehicle '99 C/K 2500 Suburban
8. Re: Poping Rivets on the Front
9. Rear baths
10. 40's Pipe Frame models
11. Re: isk brakes
12. Re: needs help/head fixtures
13. Re:
14. Re: Poping Rivets on the Front
15. Re: ntro/needs help
16. Re: 40's Pipe Frame models
17. Re: needs help/head fixtures
18. Re: 40's Pipe Frame models
19. Re: needs help/head fixtures
20. Re: needs help/head fixtures
21. Re: needs help/head fixtures
22. Re: El Rey Trailer Company
23. Re: for the ABS curious
24. Re: Rear baths
25. Re: Attitude
26. Re: Rear baths
27. Re: Rear baths/'75 Argosy 22'
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message Number: 1
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 20:01:19 -0000
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: monitoring
People,
Please leave monitoring to the monitors! If you have a comment or complaint
please email us directly. Do not post these on the list.
You can reach us at:
Scott - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toby - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ed - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Once again all was quiet until I took a break for the weekend!
Monitor Scott
------------------------------
Message Number: 2
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 20:40:56 -0400
From: "Thomas LaVergne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Tow vehicle
Friends,
I am looking at a 1999 Chevy Suburban 3/4 ton for my 1979 28'
Ambassador...it has a 454 gas engine. If any of you have that engine in a
Suburban could you please let me know how you like it for towing AND for
daily use? What are you getting in the way of fuel milage while towing and
not towing? Anything that I should look out for?
Thanks for your help!
Thomas #8848
------------------------------
Message Number: 3
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 21:16:51 -0400
From: Alexis Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: needs help/head fixtures
We finally got the shower off using the advised technique...and had to take
down the wall to get it out ...now we have removed all the plastic and
fiberglass parts from the bath and I scrubbed them throughly in 104�
heat...a day I will remember.
I wanted to paint them with epoxy paint [boat deck paint]and I think that
will work on the fiberglass shower but I'm not sure about that plastic
stuff. It must be pretty good plastic to hold up this long but I really want
to paint all this stuff. ...the color is awful. What kind of paint is best?
I planned to sand it well, patch the broken places with epoxy and vinyl
backing. I have experience fixing dings in the sailboat we had for 17 years
so I'm familiar with that. I sure fgeel like I want to stiffen this stuff up
with some great stuff or something.
Just for discoloration problems tho...I was able to get some spots out with
grout cleaner ...but that's really strong stuff with hcl acid and you have
to neutralize it real fast or it will soften the plastic. It sure got some
spots clean!!! If I weren't going to paint it I would touch it up with that
more.
Does anyone have any advice on how to paint this plastic stuff? I know I
can't replace it so I don't want to ganble too much. We have about 3/4th of
this thing ripped out now and the fun part is getting closer.....but now we
have to take a break and have frame and brakes done.
Lexxey...I may just leave "needs help" on all my posts!!!! hummmm...maybe a
teeshirt!!!
------------------------------
Message Number: 4
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 22:39:14 -0500
From: "John R. Kleven" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Tow vehicle
That is a great tow vehicle and my buddy tows his 31 ft with it but never
gets better than ten MPG towing. Everythig else about the Burb is great.
Randy
------------------------------
Message Number: 5
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 22:03:26 -0400
From: "Edward Emerick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Poping Rivets on the Front
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Hello All,
I seem to have a small problem; the 68 Sovereign is popping the rivets
along the lower front panel. This is the area just behind the propane
tanks, there are two rows of rivets along the bottom of the panel that
some are missing again. Not all of them but I have had to replace 9 of
the approximately 30 that make up the 2 rows. Could this happen by over
tightening the friction sway bar, placement of 140 pounds of batteries
under the center gaucho and over the axel on the road side or do I have
other ugly things going on? The first time I noticed this was after
returning from the International with a full freshwater tank but today I
returned from Region 7 rally with only =BC tank of water. Any
suggestions?
=20
Thanks
Ed
WBCCI/VAC 4425
68 Sovereign
59 Traveler
=20
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hello All,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I seem to have a small problem; the 68 Sovereign is =
popping the
rivets along the lower front panel. This is the area just behind the =
propane tanks,
there are two rows of rivets along the bottom of the panel that some are =
missing
again. Not all of them but I have had to replace 9 of the approximately =
30 that
make up the 2 rows. Could this happen by over tightening the friction =
sway bar,
placement of 140 pounds of batteries under the center gaucho and over =
the axel on
the road side or do I have other ugly things going on? The first time I =
noticed
this was after returning from the International with a full freshwater =
tank but
today I returned from Region 7 rally with <span class=3DGramE>only <span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=A0</span>=BC</span> tank of water. <span =
class=3DGramE>Any
suggestions?</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Ed<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DSpellE><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>WBCCI/VAC</span></font></spa=
n><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> =
4425<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>68 Sovereign<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>59 <span =
class=3DGramE>Traveler</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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Message Number: 6
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 23:20:41 EDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: needs help/head fixtures
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I used a 2 part epoxy on all parts Of my bath both on the fiberglass and the
plastic the paint has been on over 3 years and still looks good. I also
repaired the plastic parts with epoxy resin and cloth. the repairs are still
holding.
Jim smith
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><P ALIGN=CENTER><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I used a 2 part epoxy on all parts Of my bath both on the
fiberglass and the plastic the paint has been on over 3 years and still looks good. I
also reJim smith</P></FONT></HTML>
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Message Number: 7
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 22:26:23 -0500
From: Kevin D Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Tow vehicle '99 C/K 2500 Suburban
Greetings Thomas!
I have owned my 1999 K2500 Suburban with the 7400 VORTEC V8 since April
28, 1998. I now have 93,000 miles on it and can report that it has been
one of the most satisfactory vehicles that I have owned. It hasn't been
without problems, but overall it has been a faithful servant. My dealer
special ordered it to my specifications which included the heavy duty
trailer towing package rated at 10,000 pounds - - this included HD
auxiliary Automatic Transmission Fluid Cooler, HD Auxiliary Motor Oil
Cooler, HD Electric auxiliary cooling fan, HD Radiator, HD Alternator,
HD Springs (with off-road package delete), HD receiver hitch, and
trailer wiring harness. Additional options included HD Automatic
Overdrive Transmission, 4.10 Post-Trac differential, and automatic shift
transfer case.
Approximately 75% of my mileage is towing my 1964 Overlander. I have
towed in overdrive as permitted with the transmission specified except
when the transmission begins hunting at which time I shift to Direct
Drive - - the transmission has required nothing other than regular
service throughout its service life. The motor has required nothing
other than a major tune-up at 70,000 miles that included a thorough
cleaning of the fuel injectors (total tune-up cost was $700.00). The
only repair required on the suspension system has been overhauling the
brakes at 70,000 miles (total cost was about $600.00). The original
equipment tires were replaced at 47,000 miles and the replacement
Michelin Radials are still going strong. The only nagging problem was
with the electronic controls for the four-wheel-drive transfer case - -
the first four modules only lasted about 12,000 miles each - - the most
recent module of an improved design has performed flawlessly since its
installation.
The only unusual repair that I have had probably was not the fault of
the Suburban. I had a new power inverter installed in my Overlander
during the International Rally and some wires were crossed causing
power to feedback over the ground wire from the trailer to the Suburban.
This apparently overheated the terminal block on the Suburban's
electrical system - - between batter positive terminal and starter - -
the terminal block fractured and caused periodic no-start conditions as
well as a surge at idle. Once replaced all returned to normal. I do
not think this is indicative of a general problem with the tow vehicle.
I have been very pleased with fuel economy. I average 11-13 MPG solo in
the city, 12-15 MPG solo on the highway with a best tank of 18 MPG over
465 miles last month. Towing the Overlander results in averages of
10-12 MPG city and 11-13 MPG highway. I have towed with this rig
through the Rocky Mountains as well as throughout the Midwest. My
Overlander weighs in at about 6,000 pounds when it is fully loaded for a
trip and is towed with a Reese Dual Cam Sway Control equipped hitch. My
normal towing speed is between 55 and 60 MPH. Solo, I try to set my
cruise at about 95% of the posted limit. When available, I run either
Mobil Premium fuel or Citgo Premium fuel.
I haven't had significant experience towing the Argosy Minuet with the
Suburban yet. At this point, I have towed the Minuet 1,000 miles and it
has had no impact on fuel economy - - I averaged the same that I did
solo. The Minuet weighs about 2,700 pounds and is just a few inches
wider than the Suburban - - and since it doesn't have a roof air
conditioner, it is only a little more than 1 foot taller than the
Suburban.
Good luck with your decision!
Kevin D. Allen
1964 Overlander International/1999 GMC K2500 Suburban
1978 Argosy Minuet
1975 Cadillac Convertible (towcar in-training)
WBCCI/VAC #6359
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of
Thomas LaVergne
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 6:41 PM
To: Multiple recipients of VACList
Subject: [VAC] Tow vehicle
Friends,
I am looking at a 1999 Chevy Suburban 3/4 ton for my 1979 28'
Ambassador...it has a 454 gas engine. If any of you have that engine in
a
Suburban could you please let me know how you like it for towing AND for
daily use? What are you getting in the way of fuel milage while towing
and
not towing? Anything that I should look out for?
Thanks for your help!
Thomas #8848
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------------------------------
Message Number: 8
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 00:08:36 -0400
From: "Mr. Joy H. Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Poping Rivets on the Front
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Hi,
I always like to reply to questions that I have no earthly knowledge =
about resolution; however, I'm compelled to . . .
If you take a close look at the floor up front, you'll find that it is =
rotted and missing between the inverted "U" channel of the monoque and =
the frame members up front. Hard to do as you have to remove the water =
tank and lots of interfering furniture to take a real look. When the =
floor is gone, the rivets that secure the inverted "U" channel to the =
frame are free to bounce. What ever the cause, over tensioning of the =
equalizer bars, etc. the monocoque can bounce and eventually break the =
rivets that fasten the angle iron to the outer skin and anchor to the =
space between the frame and the inverted "U" aluminum of the monocoque. =
Hope all this is perfectly clear. Got to understand how the shell is =
fastened to the floor to get a clear picture. =20
With my '69 Safari, I ground out all the fasteners across the front and =
rear (same situation exists for rear rot), replaced the floor by forcing =
it into it's original position, and installing new bolts to replace both =
the clinching rivets and bolts. A lot of work, but much less than =
trying to find the rivet holes you've worked on. Eventually, the =
aluminum outer skin will deteriorate so you'll have to use larger rivets =
- then replacement of the outer skin! :(
I believe that your situation involves floor deterioration across the =
entire front of the unit and/or a rusted out "A" frame. It will take =
careful inspection to determine the exact cause of the problem.
Good luck,
'69 Safari, Joy
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>I always like to reply to questions =
that I have no=20
earthly knowledge about resolution; however, I'm compelled to . =
. . =20
. .</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>If you take a close look at the floor =
up front,=20
you'll find that it is rotted and missing between the inverted "U" =
channel of=20
the monoque and the frame members up front. Hard to do as you have =
to=20
remove the water tank and lots of interfering furniture to take a real=20
look. When the floor is gone, the rivets that secure the inverted =
"U"=20
channel to the frame are free to bounce. What ever the cause, over =
tensioning of the equalizer bars, etc. the monocoque can bounce and =
eventually=20
break the rivets that fasten the angle iron to the outer skin and anchor =
to the=20
space between the frame and the inverted "U" aluminum of the =
monocoque. =20
Hope all this is perfectly clear. Got to understand how the shell =
is=20
fastened to the floor to get a clear picture. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>With my '69 Safari, I ground out all =
the fasteners=20
across the front and rear (same situation exists for rear rot), replaced =
the=20
floor by forcing it into it's original position, and installing new =
bolts to=20
replace both the clinching rivets and bolts. A lot of work, but =
much less=20
than trying to find the rivet holes you've worked on. Eventually, =
the=20
aluminum outer skin will deteriorate so you'll have to use larger rivets =
- then=20
replacement of the outer skin! :(</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>I believe that your situation involves =
floor=20
deterioration across the entire front of the unit and/or a rusted out =
"A"=20
frame. It will take careful inspection to determine the exact =
cause of the=20
problem.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>Good luck,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D4> &nbs=
p;  =
; =
=20
'69 Safari, Joy</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Message Number: 9
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 22:20:43 -0700
From: "Rob Hamilton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Rear baths
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Hello, I'm new to this group & am looking at a really sweet, relatively =
unused 1975 Argosy 22'er. In looking around the web, I understand models =
with the rear bathrooms are to be avoided due to resulting frame =
problems, etc.? Is this always the case? Any other issues that might =
make this unit undesirable? It is not being offered =
inexpensively...$6,000. Any feedback will sure be appreciated. Thanks! =
Rob=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello, I'm new to this group & am =
looking at a=20
really sweet, relatively unused 1975 Argosy 22'er. In looking around the =
web, I=20
understand models with the rear bathrooms are to be avoided due to =
resulting=20
frame problems, etc.? Is this always the case? Any other issues that =
might make=20
this unit undesirable? It is not being offered inexpensively...$6,000. =
Any=20
feedback will sure be appreciated. Thanks! =
Rob </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Message Number: 10
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 07:14:34 -0700
From: Charcigar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: 40's Pipe Frame models
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Hi Everyone,
Can anyone educate me on what a "pipe frame" model is all about?I understand that the
40's and early 50's were built on a "pipe frame".What exactly does that mean?Are they
then weaker structurally than say,later 50's and 60's Airstreams?
Thanks!
Charlotte
'67 Safari
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Everyone,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Can anyone educate me on what a "pipe frame"
model is all about?I understand that the 40's and early 50's were built on a
"pipe frame".What exactly does that mean?Are they then weaker structurally than
say,later 50's and 60's Airstreams?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Thanks!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Charlotte </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>'67 Safari</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Message Number: 11
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 10:21:50 EDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: isk brakes
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I am surprised no one has brought up the vacuum powered disk brakes that came
on ambassador models in the mid to late 70s that tapped into the tow vehicles
vacuum supply via a plug at the rear bumper!
We had a 79 and the brakes were fabulous until they needed repair and I had
to send the calipers to Ca to be rebuilt.
$1800 later we were back in business and sold the unit two months later to a
retired couple in Mesa, AZ to use as guest house~ go figure!
AlanT
Phx AZ
74 Safari
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial"
LANG="0">I am surprised no one has brought up the vacuum powered disk brakes that came
on ambassador models in the mid to late 70s that tapped into the tow vehicles vacuum
suppWe had a 79 and the brakes were fabulous until they needed repair and I had to
send the calipers to Ca to be rebuilt. <BR>
$1800 later we were back in business and sold the unit two months later to a retired
couple in Mesa, AZ to use as guest house~ go figure!<BR>
<BR>
AlanT<BR>
Phx AZ<BR>
74 Safari</FONT></HTML>
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------------------------------
Message Number: 12
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 10:25:08 EDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: needs help/head fixtures
Lexxey. Plastic material should be sanded with 120 to 150 grit sandpaper, and
then primed. The kind of primer to use depends on the paint material that
will follow. However, if you use a good "epoxy" primer, and spray it on, you
will have a base coat that will accept just about everything.
Andy
inlandrv.com
airstreamparts.com
------------------------------
Message Number: 13
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 10:36:49 -0400
From: "Bill Mosko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re:
I recently purchased a 69 31' Airstream. It has been camp grounded for many
years & seem to be in fairly good shape, however I'm interested in
traveling. All original manuals are missing. Any advice on obtaining used
owners & maint. manuals & advice on pre travel do's & don'ts will be greatly
appreciated.\
Bill Mosko
69 31' Sovreign Land Yatch-----
------------------------------
Message Number: 14
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 10:53:19 EDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Poping Rivets on the Front
Ed. Shearing rivets off the "front hold down plate" is not a great mystery.
The following all can and do contribute to that failure.
1. Super heavy duty tow vehicle.
2. A tow vehicle that has overload springs.
3. Lack of proper running gear balance on the trailer.
4. Utilizing a hitch rating that is not required for the job. Each
installation is unique, and the hitch rating that should be used, must be
determined for that rig. As an example, towing with a 1000 or 1200 pound
hitch bar when a 550 or 750 would be adequate.
5. Full water and the batteries that you have installed, can add to the
problem, when the rigging is entirely too rigid. Bouncing on the front end of
the trailer when hooked up to the tow vehicle, should produce a deflection of
1 1/2 to 2 inches. If not, then the setup is stiffer then need be.
6. Addressing the above should take place, before any modifications.
7. "AFTER" the rigging is softened, adding 2 to 3 more rows of rivets to the
front hold down plate. These rivets, "MUST", go through the sheetmetal,
"AND", the steel hold down plate.
8. If the trailer has been towed many miles with super heavy duty rigging,
the welds that hold the front plate can fail. In that case the area behind
the LPG bottles must be stripped until the steel plate is completely exposed,
which will permit rewelding.
9. Rivets only shear when they have been exposed to stresses that they were
not designed to support. Redistributing some of those stresses and/or
eliminating some of them, will stop the loss of rivets.
Andy
inlandrv.com
airstreamparts.com
------------------------------
Message Number: 15
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 15:26:37 +0000
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: ntro/needs help
Phil, Thats what I did when I removed my bathroom unit
and it came out easily. Now, the trick is to see if I
can get it reinstalled again!
----- Original Message -----
From: "gshippen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ntro/needs help
Phil, if your A/S is plumbed like mine you can place the
handles of pliers down the drain and unscrew the drain
which retains the drain to the tub. Not a good
explaination but try it out and see if it works. GAS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Renner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Todays problem is: how do we get the shower fiberglass
unit off the drain.
--
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Message Number: 16
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 10:02:13 -0600
From: "Fred Coldwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 40's Pipe Frame models
Hi Charlotte:
"Pipe frame" Airstream trailers were built from 1947 to
1949/50, and usually have both or one end rounded (like
french bread loaf round) with a single wide oval window on
that rounded end. The trailers back then were built very
light with few appliances and furnishings, so their frame
could be relatively lightweight. The pipe frame was
strengthened slightly in 1949 by adding another 3' section
of
pipe inside the front most 3 feet near the hitch. But the
frame soon became insufficient for the added weight of
larger trailers with more stuff installed and loaded
inside.
The "pipe frame" was called a centerpole by Airstream.
The frame is like a fish skeleton: a longitudinal center rib
with outriggers to both sides. The outriggers are not all
that strong and cannot take too much weight being placed on
them (other than above and immediately inside the wheels,
which area has some additional framing). You will typically
see the appliances mounted in the center of trailers,
usually above or just forward of the wheels, as that is best
for weight distribution.
The first ladder frame Airstream with a "A" frame up
front appeared in mid 1949. It was the 24' "Unlimited",
soon to be renamed the "Cruiser." By 1950, all new
Airstream trailers were built using the ladder frame.
The pipe frames are still OK if not rusted inside the
tube, if the trailer is kept light and not overloaded, and
if you avoid using weight equalizing bars (which will
overpower the weaker-than-ladder-frame design). The 1947 &
48 pipe frames are the weakest, the 1949s are slightly
stronger. But none of them compare in strength to the
ladder frames that followed.
Bud Cooper restored his 1947 Airstream 22' Liner on a
brand new ladder frame made of 6 inch channel. That is an
excellent foundation for an old trailer than is intended to
be used extensively.
Fred Coldwell
VAC Archive Historian
> Charcigar wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Can anyone educate me on what a "pipe frame" model is all
> about?I understand that the 40's and early 50's were built
> on a "pipe frame".What exactly does that mean?Are they
> then weaker structurally than say,later 50's and 60's
> Airstreams?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Charlotte
> '67 Safari
------------------------------
Message Number: 17
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 12:12:21 -0400
From: Alexis Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: needs help/head fixtures
"However, if you use a good "epoxy" primer, and spray it on, you
will have a base coat that will accept just about everything, Andy
inlandrv.com"
That's a good point that no one else made yet and I will check out...
I was just on my way to the barn to see if I had any fiberglass paint left
from when we had the sailboat 2 year ago....that stuff is expensive. I know
I just got rid of the fiberglass patch stuff, thinking I wouldn't need, it
not know I would be wildly overtaken by this new renovation bug. It was
about $75 worth of 2 part epoxy I was familiar with...it always happens
doesn't it...throw it away or sell it at a garage sale and you need it!!!
[or throw away that ugly damn antenna on the side of the trailer and find
out folks want them...kicking myself]
Lexxey...learning slowly
------------------------------
Message Number: 18
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 12:22:41 -0700
From: Tuna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 40's Pipe Frame models
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Picture a 4" diameter steel pipe, about 3/32" thickness, about 20' long. One end has a
hitch coupler welded to it. Starting about 2' back from the hitch, there are 6'
aluminum 'outriggers' or cross members about every two feet to the end of the pipe.
Thes
a 5/8" plywood subfloor is mounted to the outriggers, which stand about 3/4" above the
pipe, requiring wooden 'spacers' every few feet along the pipe.
a 'U'-shaped channel of aluminum sheet metal is mounted around the edge of the
subfloor, to which the monocoque (shell) is riveted.
this makes for a very lightweight trailer - suitable for towing behind the typically
low-powered family cars of the immediate post WWII era at the then-typical 'highway'
speeds of 40-50 mph (no interstates/freeways yet, ICYDK).
However, after a few years of bouncing along the highways and byways of this great
land of ours, things can start to get ugly down there under the old asbestos tiles,
particularly if there's been any floor rot or plywood de-lamination. Once the floor
begi
In renovating his old pipe-frame trailer, Bud Cooper replaced the pipe/outriggers with
a steel ladder-frame, and replaced the axle and spring suspension with a new style
Henschen dura-torque axle/suspension. He left a length of the original pipe frame exp
I'm doing something similar - but using square-tube aluminum to construct a kind of
'buttressed-ladder-frame' which will be mounted to a new henschen axle. The original
pipe will slide into the aluminum frame, secured with rubber bushings and steel bolts,
Tuna
----- Original Message -----
From: Charcigar
To: Multiple recipients of VACList
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 7:14 AM
Subject: [VAC] 40's Pipe Frame models
Hi Everyone,
Can anyone educate me on what a "pipe frame" model is all about?I understand that
the 40's and early 50's were built on a "pipe frame".What exactly does that mean?Are
they then weaker structurally than say,later 50's and 60's Airstreams?
Thanks!
Charlotte
'67 Safari
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Picture a 4" diameter steel pipe, about 3/32"
thickness, about 20' long. One end has a hitch coupler welded to it. Starting
about 2' back from the hitch, there are 6' aluminum 'outriggers' or cross
members about every two feet to the end of the pipe. These 'outriggers' are
constructed of two pieces sheet aluminum (same as the skin) formed into a 'C'
shape about six inches high and six feet or so long, then riveted back-to-back
to make an 'I-beam' shape... ][. A four inch diameter hole is cut into
each of these outriggers which allows them to be slipped onto the pipe. When
they're in final position, the steel pipe and aluminum outriggers are attached
with flimsy little pieces of sheet metal bent into an 'L' shape, rivetted to the
steel pipe with brass rivets (slows the bi-metal corrosion).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>a 5/8" plywood subfloor is mounted to the
outriggers, which stand about 3/4" above the pipe, requiring wooden 'spacers'
every few feet along the pipe.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>a 'U'-shaped channel of aluminum sheet metal is
mounted around the edge of the subfloor, to which the monocoque (shell) is
riveted. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>this makes for a very lightweight trailer -
suitable for towing behind the typically low-powered family cars of the
immediate post WWII era at the then-typical 'highway' speeds of 40-50 mph (no
interstates/freeways yet, ICYDK). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>However, after a few years of bouncing along the
highways and byways of this great land of ours, things can start to get ugly
down there under the old asbestos tiles, particularly if there's been any floor
rot or plywood de-lamination. Once the floor begins to flex, it's only a matter
of time before the whole thing starts to come apart. One way to tell if there's
a problem is to grab ahold of the hitch, and see if the pipe will
'rotate'.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>In renovating his old pipe-frame trailer, Bud
Cooper replaced the pipe/outriggers with a steel ladder-frame, and
replaced the axle and spring suspension with a new style Henschen dura-torque
axle/suspension. He left a length of the original pipe frame exposed at the
rear, for appearance' sake.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm doing something similar - but using square-tube
aluminum to construct a kind of 'buttressed-ladder-frame' which
will be mounted to a new henschen axle. The original pipe will slide
into the aluminum frame, secured with rubber bushings and steel
bolts, so that once it's all together, it will appear to be completely
original. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Tuna</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000
2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A [EMAIL PROTECTED] href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>Charcigar</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A [EMAIL PROTECTED]
href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>Multiple recipients of VACList</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 19, 2002 7:14
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [VAC] 40's Pipe Frame
models</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Everyone,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Can anyone educate me on what a "pipe
frame" model is all about?I understand that the 40's and early 50's were built
on a "pipe frame".What exactly does that mean?Are they then weaker
structurally than say,later 50's and 60's Airstreams?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Thanks!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Charlotte </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>'67 Safari</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Message Number: 19
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 13:18:53 EDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: needs help/head fixtures
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Rember some of that stuff has a liminated shelf life I have seen trovlems
that you cannot believe from using yhe outdated stuff. try a test pannel Ist
thet will tell you if the stuff is up to par. Jim Smith
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><P ALIGN=CENTER><FONT SIZE=2>Rember some of that
stuff has a liminated shelf life I have seen trovlems that you cannot believe from
using yhe outdated stuff. try a test pannel Ist thet will tell you if the stuff
is
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Message Number: 20
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 13:39:14 EDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: needs help/head fixtures
Ahhh Lexxy.
Too slow we learn, too fast we forget.
That's life.
Andy
inlandrv.com
airstreamparts.com
------------------------------
Message Number: 21
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 13:45:06 -0400
From: Alexis Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: needs help/head fixtures
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"Rember some of that stuff has a liminated shelf . Jim Smith"
I couldn't find anything but solvent anyway...but I have a gallon of that!!!
Cleans fiberglass real well!!!
I plan to play around with some in back, underneath areas on the ABS plastic
and report....I am hell bent on doing this!!! Durn bee in my bonnet!!!
I should be out scrubbing rust but it's tooooo hot!!! This may have to be a
fall project....and one for a quality respirator ...after getting up at 5am
with an asthma attack. Those things have a ton of dust when you rip stuff
out!!!
Lexxey...
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<P align=center><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT color=#008080><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=560432917-19082002>"</SPAN>Rember some of that stuff has a liminated shelf
. . Jim Smith<SPAN
class=560432917-19082002>"</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=560432917-19082002><FONT face=Tahoma color=#008080>I couldn't
find anything but solvent anyway...but I have a gallon of that!!! Cleans
fiberglass real well!!!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=560432917-19082002><FONT face=Tahoma
color=#008080></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=560432917-19082002><FONT face=Tahoma color=#008080>I plan to
play around with some in back, underneath areas on the ABS plastic and
report....I am hell bent on doing this!!! Durn bee in my bonnet!!!
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=560432917-19082002><FONT face=Tahoma
color=#008080></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=560432917-19082002><FONT face=Tahoma color=#008080>I should be
out scrubbing rust but it's tooooo hot!!! This may have to be a fall
project....and one for a quality respirator ...after getting up at 5am with an
asthma attack. Those things have a ton of dust when you rip stuff
out!!!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<P><FONT size=2>Lexxey...</FONT><FONT face=Tahoma size=2></FONT></P><FONT
face=arial,helvetica>
<P align=center><FONT size=2><FONT face=Tahoma color=#008080
size=3></FONT> </P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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Message Number: 22
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 10:50:29 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: El Rey Trailer Company
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El Rey was just one of hundreds of small travel coach companies that
popped up in post WWII Southern California and Indiana. Most were gone
by the '60s, many only lasting a few years. I didn't see the El Rey
mentioned in Bryans new book (http://airstream.org/reading/html)but I
know Shady Dell (http://www.theshadydell.com/) has one (a 1957) that
you can sleep in. It was a copy of the Airstream and Avion of the era,
maybe someone's lawyers put them out of business (just guessing).
RJ
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 2:29 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [VAC] Re: El Rey Trailer Company
>
>
> Has anyone heard of an "El Rey Trailer Company"? It's an aluminum
> trailer -- about 16' long, and I can't find any information about it.
> Any help will be appreciated. Thanks -- Kodabear
>
>
--openmail-part-1362b94a-00000001--
------------------------------
Message Number: 23
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 14:57:59 -0400
From: Alexis Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: for the ABS curious
wanted to learn all about "acrylonitrile butadiene styrene" or ABS plastic
and found this interesting:
http://members.shaw.ca/sask.rail/construction/lsbuild/workstyr.html#PAINTING
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/3075/bodies03.htm
ended up learning enuf to be scared of melting this stuff with
solvent....now I know why the hcl acid grout cleaner started to make it get
hot and sticky!!! I have new respect for this plastic...they make car parts
and garden ponds from it....holds up a long time.
And I exemped chemistry!! Should know better. Wish I could remember all
that stuff now!!!
Gotta get back to my real life!!! So much to learn!!!
Lexxey...
------------------------------
Message Number: 24
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 15:32:14 -0500
From: "Keith and Jean Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Rear baths
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Rob,
We bought and restored a 1973 Argosy 22 last summer. The 1975 model will be
much better than our 1973 because the 1975 will have a gray water system
which they lacked prior to 1974.
I have not heard of a frame related rear bath problem with these units - I
think that had to do with the longer ones.
I'm no expert on pricing but I have the impression that these units
generally sell for a couple of thousand less than $6,000 but also generally
need work. While not inexpensive, $6,000 seems to me to be an OK number for
a unit that is "really sweet" - if it really is really sweet.
Its easy to spend a lot of money renovating if you let yourself get into the
mode of replacing things in order to make the trailer like new. My
suggestion is that before buying, take a cold hard look at what you plan to
replace/renew on the trailer after you buy it. If what's there is truly
serviceable and if you like the layout of the unit, then $6,000 might be OK.
But if it needs much renovating, do the research on costs before jumping in.
Also, of course you can get a sense of prices from the VAC classifieds and
other "for sale" areas on the Internet.
We have done a lot of renovating on ours (much clean-up, replaced wheels and
tires, window coverings, window gaskets, upholstery, floor covering,
plumbing fixtures, repainted exterior, etc., etc.) and are well over $6,000
total cost. But we feel OK about it because we did the research first. It
has been fun to bring it "come back to life" and we like the result better
than what's available for the money in a "regular" RV.
Keith W.
1973 Argosy 22
-----Original Message-----
Hello, I'm new to this group & am looking at a really sweet, relatively
unused 1975 Argosy 22'er. In looking around the web, I understand models
with the rear bathrooms are to be avoided due to resulting frame problems,
etc.? Is this always the case? Any other issues that might make this unit
undesirable? It is not being offered inexpensively...$6,000. Any feedback
will sure be appreciated. Thanks! Rob
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D580085419-19082002>Rob,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D580085419-19082002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D580085419-19082002>We=20
bought and restored a 1973 Argosy 22 last summer. The 1975 model =
will be=20
much better than our 1973 because the 1975 will have a gray water =
system=20
which they lacked prior to 1974.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D580085419-19082002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D580085419-19082002>I have not heard of a frame =
related rear bath=20
problem with these units - I think that had to do with the longer=20
ones. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D580085419-19082002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D580085419-19082002>I'm no=20
expert on pricing but I have the impression that these units generally =
sell for=20
a couple of thousand less than $6,000 but also generally need=20
work. While not inexpensive, $6,000 seems to =
me to be=20
an OK number for a unit that is "really sweet" - if it really is =
really=20
sweet.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D580085419-19082002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D580085419-19082002>Its=20
easy to spend a lot of money renovating if you let yourself get into the =
mode=20
of replacing things in order to make the trailer like =
new. =20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D580085419-19082002>My suggestion is that before buying, take =
a cold=20
hard look at what you plan to replace/renew on the trailer after =
you buy=20
it. If what's there is truly serviceable and if you like the =
layout of the=20
unit, then $6,000 might be OK. But if it needs much =
renovating, do=20
the research on costs before jumping in. Also, of course you can =
get a=20
sense of prices from the VAC classifieds and other "for sale" areas on =
the=20
Internet.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D580085419-19082002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D580085419-19082002><SPAN=20
class=3D580085419-19082002>We have done a lot of renovating on ours =
(much=20
clean-up, replaced wheels and tires, window coverings, window gaskets,=20
upholstery, floor covering, plumbing fixtures, repainted exterior, etc., =
etc.)=20
and are well over $6,000 total cost. But we feel OK about it =
because we=20
did the research first. It has been fun to bring it =
"come back=20
to life" and we like the result better than what's available =
for the=20
money in a "regular" RV. </SPAN><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D580085419-19082002></SPAN></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D580085419-19082002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV></SPAN></FONT></DIV>=
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D580085419-19082002>Keith=20
W.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D580085419-19082002>1973=20
Argosy 22</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello, I'm new to this group & am =
looking at=20
a really sweet, relatively unused 1975 Argosy 22'er. In looking around =
the=20
web, I understand models with the rear bathrooms are to be avoided due =
to=20
resulting frame problems, etc.? Is this always the case? Any other =
issues that=20
might make this unit undesirable? It is not being offered=20
inexpensively...$6,000. Any feedback will sure be appreciated. Thanks! =
Rob </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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------------------------------
Message Number: 25
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 13:29:56 -0700
From: "C. Hale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Attitude
Hi,
Thanks to Andy, for his consistent info, and warm invitations to anyone else
with experience, parts, or other resources I might be interested in for my
trailer for free or for money.
Cindy
------------------------------
Message Number: 26
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 13:25:42 -0700
From: "My Airstream" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Rear baths
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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Rob wrote:
"I understand models with the rear bathrooms are to be avoided due to =
resulting frame problems, etc.? Is this always the case? " =20
I don't think so Rob. My 66 Safari and others with late 60's 22 footers =
have real good experiences with the rear bathroom. Later models added =
the grey tank which could have a bearing and increased weight throughout =
the coach which could add stress to the frame. I would take a good test =
run with gray and black tanks semi filled and then park and inspect, =
before I would pay $6000.
Bob Kiger http://cruiserbob.com
66 Airstream Safari=20
Mira Mar Mobile Park
Oceanside, CA =20
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2>Rob =
wrote:</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2><STRONG>"</STRONG><FONT =
face=3DArial>I understand=20
models with the rear bathrooms are to be avoided due to resulting frame=20
problems, etc.? Is this always the case? " </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I don't think so Rob. My 66 Safari and others =
with late=20
60's 22 footers have real good experiences with the rear bathroom. =
Later=20
models added the grey tank which could have a bearing and increased =
weight=20
throughout the coach which could add stress to the =
frame. I=20
would take a good test run with gray and black tanks semi =
filled and=20
then park and inspect, before I would pay $6000.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DCourier size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV>Bob Kiger <A=20
href=3D"http://cruiserbob.com";>http://cruiserbob.com</A><BR>66 Airstream =
Safari=20
<BR>Mira Mar Mobile Park<BR>Oceanside, CA </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Message Number: 27
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 15:59:46 -0500
From: Kevin D Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Rear baths/'75 Argosy 22'
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Greetings Rob!
The rear end droop/sag was more prevalent on the longer coaches (over
28'), but is not unheard of on shorter coaches. Rear separation of
frame/body can be found on any size coach so careful inspection is
necessary to rule this out - - according to my understanding the
simplest test for this problem is to place pressure on the rear bumper
to see if the bumper moves independently of the rear body (I usually try
sitting on the rear bumper). It seems that there is a consensus that if
a spare tire or any other non-stock device has been mounted on the rear
bumper that there is reason to carefully inspect the rear structure of
the trailer to verify that all is well. On a 22' coach with tandem
axles such as you would have with the '75 Argosy, you do not have a
trailer that would immediately raise concern about rear end droop or
separation just based on its size.
As a side note, you may have located what seems to be a rather unusual
Argosy if it is the 22' model with the entrance door at the rear. I
know that a regular contributor to this list has one, but have heard of
few others. The sales literature that I have shows a 22' Argosy with
rear door in 1976, a 24' Argosy with rear door, and the rear door coach
had disappeared by 1979 according to the literature that I have. My
recent acquisition of a 1978 Argosy Minuet has sparked my interest in
researching the Argosy trailers from the 1970s.
Good luck with your decision!
Kevin Allen
Kevin D. Allen
1964 Overlander International/1999 GMC K2500 Suburban
1978 Argosy Minuet
1975 Cadillac Convertible (towcar in-training)
WBCCI/VAC #6359
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of
Rob Hamilton
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 11:21 PM
To: Multiple recipients of VACList
Subject: [VAC] Rear baths
Hello, I'm new to this group & am looking at a really sweet, relatively
unused 1975 Argosy 22'er. In looking around the web, I understand models
with the rear bathrooms are to be avoided due to resulting frame
problems, etc.? Is this always the case? Any other issues that might
make this unit undesirable? It is not being offered
inexpensively...$6,000. Any feedback will sure be appreciated. Thanks!
Rob
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Greetings =
Rob!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The rear end droop/sag was more =
prevalent
on the longer coaches (over 28’), but is not unheard of on shorter
coaches.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>Rear separation =
of
frame/body can be found on any size coach so careful inspection is =
necessary to
rule this out - - according to my understanding the simplest test for =
this
problem is to place pressure on the rear bumper to see if the bumper =
moves
independently of the rear body (I usually try sitting on the rear =
bumper).<span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>It seems that there is a =
consensus that
if a spare tire or any other non-stock device has been mounted on the =
rear
bumper that there is reason to carefully inspect the rear structure of =
the
trailer to verify that all is well.<span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>
</span>On a 22’ coach with tandem axles such as you would have =
with the
’75 Argosy, you do not have a trailer that would immediately raise
concern about rear end droop or separation just based on its =
size.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>As a side note, you may have =
located what
seems to be a rather unusual Argosy if it is the 22’ model with =
the
entrance door at the rear.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> =
</span>I know
that a regular contributor to this list has one, but have heard of few =
others.<span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>The sales literature that I =
have shows a
22’ Argosy with rear door in 1976, a 24’ Argosy with rear =
door, and
the rear door coach had disappeared by 1979 according to the literature =
that I
have.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>My recent =
acquisition of a
1978 Argosy Minuet has sparked my interest in researching the Argosy =
trailers
from the 1970s.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Good luck with your =
decision!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Kevin =
Allen<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><st1:PersonName><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:
yes'>Kevin D. Allen</span></font></st1:PersonName><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>1964 Overlander
International/1999 GMC K2500 Suburban<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>1978 Argosy =
Minuet<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>1975 Cadillac =
Convertible
(towcar in-training)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>WBCCI/VAC =
#6359<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =
</span></font><st1:PersonName><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>[EMAIL PROTECTED]</span=
></font></st1:PersonName><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
[mailto:</span></font><st1:PersonName><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>[EMAIL PROTECTED]</span=
></font></st1:PersonName><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Rob Hamilton<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Sunday, August 18, =
2002
11:21 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Multiple recipients =
of VACList<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [VAC] Rear =
baths</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Hello, I'm new to this =
group &
am looking at a really sweet, relatively unused 1975 Argosy 22'er. In =
looking
around the web, I understand models with the rear bathrooms are to be =
avoided
due to resulting frame problems, etc.? Is this always the case? Any =
other
issues that might make this unit undesirable? It is not being offered
inexpensively...$6,000. Any feedback will sure be appreciated. Thanks!
Rob </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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