VACList DigestVACList-Digest Tuesday, August 20, 2002 Issue 400
Today's Topics:
1. Replacement Refrigerator
2. Re: Argosy 22
3. Re: Rear baths/'75 Argosy 22'
4. Re: Rear baths
5. Re: Poping Rivets on the Front
6. Re: Poping Rivets on the Front
7. Re: 40's Pipe Frame models
8. Re: Poping Rivets on the Front
9. Trailer Travel - A Visual History of Mobile America - SF Book Signing
10. Re: Replacement Refrigerator
11. '74 Argosy tire problems . . .
12. Jon Fitz
13. test - delete
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message Number: 1
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 21:07:43 -0400
From: "David W. Lowrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Replacement Refrigerator
Well, last Tuesday, whilst on our way to the OBX Rally, we opened our
refrigerator only to discover the lovely odor of ammonia... :-( A trip to
Wally World to get a couple of coolers. as well as a lot of duct tape to
seal up the fridge, and we were on our way)
We just returned home, so, it will soon be replacement time....
Now, I BELIEVE that I have a RM100 in my 1977 31' Sovereign International.
The model plate is scratched up, so I wont know until I remove it and get
exact dimensions. It's a 3-way unit.
According to the Dometic web site, I can get a 3-way to replace it, but the
new unit is 4 1/2 inches higher.
I can also replace it with a RM2820 "classic" model thats supposed to be a
close fit.
Has anyone done either of these replacements? I am willing to loose the
small cabinet below the refrigerator, if necessary.
What sort of work is required?
Also, I will be looking into just replacing the cooling unit with a rebuilt
one as well...
Dave
_________________________________________________________________
Dave & Ann Lowrey - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WBCCI: 5074
1977 31' Sovereign International (center bath)
Cincinnati, Ohio
------------------------------
Message Number: 2
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 19:46:39 -0500
From: Dan Weeks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Argosy 22
Rob:
Welcome! I own a '75 Argosy 26, which I bought 2.5 years ago. It has a rear
bath (and a rear-mounted spare) and has NO frame separation, even though the
trailer had a lot of miles on it. I've removed the rear-mounted spare to
reduce the possibility of future frame separation, and will tow with an
empty tanks whenever possible. If there's no evidence of frame separation
now, and you tow carefully, minimize weight in the rear, I think you'll be
fine. My guess is that shorter trailers such as the 22 are much less
susceptible.
6k sounds high to me. I got my 26 in Excellent shape--new water pump,
electric jack, awning, carpeting, fridge, and everything working great--for
$3. I think that was a pretty good deal. At the time, most seemed to be
going for $5.5k--and that's for a considerably larger trailer. FWIW.
Dan
75 Argosy 26
Des Moines
> From: VACList <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 17:01:16 -0700
> To: Multiple recipients of VACList <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [VAC]
>
> Hello, I'm new to this group & am looking at a really sweet, relatively =
> unused 1975 Argosy 22'er. In looking around the web, I understand models =
> with the rear bathrooms are to be avoided due to resulting frame =
> problems, etc.? Is this always the case? Any other issues that might =
> make this unit undesirable? It is not being offered =
> inexpensively...$6,000. Any feedback will sure be appreciated. Thanks! =
> Rob=20
------------------------------
Message Number: 3
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 21:33:56 -0400
From: "Mr. Joy H. Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Rear baths/'75 Argosy 22'
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C247C8.1FAA9720
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Rob,
I have a '74 Argosy 22 with the rear door entry and rear bath.=20
There are several inspection points for floor rot that you should look =
at.
First, open the bumper hatch and look for rotted wood debris. Next, =
reach your fingers just ahead of the inverted "U" channel and touch the =
floor. It should be firm! Especially the areas around the holding tank =
where it drops through the floor. With extensive rot in this area that =
can stretch from the rear door around to the battery compartment, I =
doubt that you'll feel bumper movement. The frame rail and the skid =
rail make this a pretty rigid assembly in a 22 footer. The clinch =
rivets between the cross frame (the inverted "U" channel) and the =
aluminum "U" channel of the monocoque will loosen over time when the =
wood is rotted. More likely, by the time all the rotted wood falls out, =
the fasteners will have completely disintegrated. I'm saving this =
restoration project for this winter! :(
Second, on each side of the door; however, the hinge side is =
particularly vulnerable. I found that the door frame had separated from =
the coach body across the entire top of the entry. The awning directs =
the water over the hinge and the seam. I may add a fillet to direct the =
water beyond the entry door. =20
The areas under the rearward end of the front window curve are also =
suspect. This is an area where Airstream joined the front end to the =
main body. The alignment is poor and directs water under the trim strip =
and onto the floor with the usual result. I'm ordering some Penetrating =
Epoxy from Fiber Glass Coatings (800) 272 7890. I used this product on =
my Safari and like how it works - 2 part mix. The product costs about =
$20 and the freight is $10 or so in 2001. The structure of the floor =
must still be intact to hold the epoxy. It's OK to add sawdust to bring =
the floor to grade if necessary. I drilled a zillion holes where =
practical to be sure the epoxy made full penetration. Nope, I didn't =
drill the holes all the way through the floor.
The water heater area is always suspect!
Finally, the wheel well (inner and outer) are suspect. I found mine =
cracked and separated. Means that the water from the road reaches the =
floor. I just assume that the floor is damaged when I see this =
condition. With my Safari, I fabricated new inner wheel well covers =
from sheet metal to replace the trashy plastic. The original is thin =
and brittle! :( However, to repair the floor around the wheel well, you =
must remove the well covers. Keep in mind that the wheel well area is =
nearly 5 feet long and there isn't a floor to hold the shell in =
alignment. When the two plastic wheel wells break, the area becomes a =
floppy mess and directs water inside the trailer! =20
I'm in process of caulking all the seams. I found a major leak under =
the front Argosy plaque. I thought it was the window seam, but went =
ahead and checked. What a surprise. =20
The clearance lights were similar and I replaced the felt with butyl =
tape after I coated the rusted areas with rustoleum. Used Parr bond to =
assure no more leaks.
I've noticed that most the steel to aluminum seams are in very poor =
shape and need caulk. The light rust along the seam is obvious.
Both the Safari and the Argosy had serious water entry through the stove =
hood assembly. The extended flow of water compromises the floor around =
the wheel well, compromises the rivets holding the inner aluminum shell, =
and damages the support counter around the stove. Any rust on the top =
of the stove indicates that there's a serious problem. =20
Granted that both the Airstream and the Argosy were abused by neglect =
for many years, my experience might be somewhat unusual.=20
BTW, $6000 means that none of the conditions I've mentioned exist, it =
has the OPD tanks, refrigerator, stove, water tank, air conditioner, =
updated charger, upgraded faucets, and new cushion fabric and drapes. =
It should also include jacks, new battery, and no leaks in the holding =
tanks. The water pump should be upgraded and preferably include an =
accumulator tank. A water heater bypass is also a good idea. =
Especially when the thing develops a leak while you are traveling.
What I'm getting at, is that for $6K, the interior and exterior should =
be in immaculate condition! I feel I overpaid for the '74 at $900 and =
knowing that everything would have to be restored. Well, the AC, =
refrigerator, and the furnace work, maybe. The stove is questionable. =
I may have several thousand invested by the time I get to the point =
where I feel that it's worth painting the exterior.
Most all of the learned restoration techniques came from contributors to =
the list! :)
Hope this helps.
'74 Argosy, Joy=20
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C247C8.1FAA9720
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"; xmlns:v =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1 =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3DWord.Document name=3DProgId>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<META content=3D"Microsoft Word 10" name=3DOriginator><LINK=20
href=3D"cid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"; =
rel=3DFile-List><o:SmartTagType=20
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"=20
name=3D"PersonName"></o:SmartTagType><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
<o:DoNotRelyOnCSS/>
</o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<w:WordDocument>
<w:SpellingState>Clean</w:SpellingState>
<w:GrammarState>Clean</w:GrammarState>
<w:DocumentKind>DocumentEmail</w:DocumentKind>
<w:EnvelopeVis/>
<w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel>
</w:WordDocument>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if !mso]>
<STYLE>st1\:* {
BEHAVIOR: url(#default#ieooui)
}
</STYLE>
<![endif]-->
<STYLE>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;
mso-font-charset:0;
mso-generic-font-family:swiss;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:553679495 -2147483648 8 0 66047 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{mso-style-parent:"";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
p.MsoAutoSig, li.MsoAutoSig, div.MsoAutoSig
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;
mso-ascii-font-family:Arial;
mso-hansi-font-family:Arial;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;
mso-header-margin:.5in;
mso-footer-margin:.5in;
mso-paper-source:0;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</STYLE>
<!--[if gte mso 10]>
<style>
/* Style Definitions */=20
table.MsoNormalTable
{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";
mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-style-parent:"";
mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;
mso-para-margin:0in;
mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
</style>
<![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></HEAD>
<BODY lang=3DEN-US style=3D"tab-interval: .5in" vLink=3Dpurple =
link=3Dblue=20
bgColor=3Dwhite>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>Hi Rob,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>I have a '74 Argosy 22 with the rear =
door entry and=20
rear bath. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>There are several inspection points for =
floor rot=20
that you should look at.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>First, open the bumper hatch and look =
for rotted=20
wood debris. Next, reach your fingers just ahead of the inverted =
"U"=20
channel and touch the floor. It should be firm! Especially =
the areas=20
around the holding tank where it drops through the floor. With =
extensive=20
rot in this area that can stretch from the rear door around to the =
battery=20
compartment, I doubt that you'll feel bumper movement. The frame =
rail and=20
the skid rail make this a pretty rigid assembly in a 22 footer. =
The clinch=20
rivets between the cross frame (the inverted "U" channel) and the =
aluminum "U"=20
channel of the monocoque will loosen over time when the wood is =
rotted. =20
More likely, by the time all the rotted wood falls out, the fasteners =
will have=20
completely disintegrated. I'm saving this restoration project for =
this=20
winter! :(</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>Second, on each side of the door; =
however, the=20
hinge side is particularly vulnerable. I found that the door frame =
had=20
separated from the coach body across the entire top of the entry. =
The=20
awning directs the water over the hinge and the seam. I may add a =
fillet=20
to direct the water beyond the entry door. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>The areas under the rearward end of the =
front=20
window curve are also suspect. This is an area where Airstream =
joined the=20
front end to the main body. The alignment is poor and directs =
water under=20
the trim strip and onto the floor with the usual result. I'm =
ordering some=20
Penetrating Epoxy from Fiber Glass Coatings (800) 272 7890. I used =
this=20
product on my Safari and like how it works - 2 part mix. The =
product costs=20
about $20 and the freight is $10 or so in 2001. The structure of =
the floor=20
must still be intact to hold the epoxy. It's OK to add sawdust to =
bring=20
the floor to grade if necessary. I drilled a zillion holes where =
practical=20
to be sure the epoxy made full penetration. Nope, I didn't drill =
the holes=20
all the way through the floor.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>The water heater area is always=20
suspect!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>Finally, the wheel well (inner and =
outer) are=20
suspect. I found mine cracked and separated. Means that the =
water=20
from the road reaches the floor. I just assume that the floor is =
damaged=20
when I see this condition. With my Safari, I fabricated new inner =
wheel=20
well covers from sheet metal to replace the trashy plastic. The =
original=20
is thin and brittle! :( However, to repair the floor around the =
wheel=20
well, you must remove the well covers. Keep in mind that the wheel =
well=20
area is nearly 5 feet long and there isn't a floor to hold the shell in=20
alignment. When the two plastic wheel wells break, the area =
becomes a=20
floppy mess and directs water inside the trailer! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>I'm in process of caulking all the =
seams. I=20
found a major leak under the front Argosy plaque. I thought it was =
the=20
window seam, but went ahead and checked. What a surprise. =20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>The clearance lights were similar and I =
replaced=20
the felt with butyl tape after I coated the rusted areas with =
rustoleum. =20
Used Parr bond to assure no more leaks.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>I've noticed that most the steel to =
aluminum seams=20
are in very poor shape and need caulk. The light rust along the =
seam is=20
obvious.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>Both the Safari and the Argosy had =
serious water=20
entry through the stove hood assembly. The extended flow of water=20
compromises the floor around the wheel well, compromises the rivets =
holding the=20
inner aluminum shell, and damages the support counter around the =
stove. =20
Any rust on the top of the stove indicates that there's a serious =
problem. =20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>Granted that both the Airstream and the =
Argosy were=20
abused by neglect for many years, my experience might be somewhat=20
unusual. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>BTW, $6000 means that none of the =
conditions I've=20
mentioned exist, it has the OPD tanks, refrigerator, stove, water tank, =
air=20
conditioner, updated charger, upgraded faucets, and new cushion fabric =
and=20
drapes. It should also include jacks, new battery, and no leaks in =
the=20
holding tanks. The water pump should be upgraded and preferably =
include an=20
accumulator tank. A water heater bypass is also a good idea. =
Especially when the thing develops a leak while you are=20
traveling.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>What I'm getting at, is that for $6K, =
the interior=20
and exterior should be in immaculate condition! I feel I overpaid =
for the=20
'74 at $900 and knowing that everything would have to be restored. =
Well,=20
the AC, refrigerator, and the furnace work, maybe. The stove is=20
questionable. I may have several thousand invested by the time I =
get to=20
the point where I feel that it's worth painting the =
exterior.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>Most all of the learned restoration =
techniques came=20
from contributors to the list! :)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>Hope this helps.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D4> &nbs=
p;  =
; =20
'74 Argosy, Joy</FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT> </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C247C8.1FAA9720--
------------------------------
Message Number: 4
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 21:22:30 -0700
From: James Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Rear baths
Rob:
The value is definitely in the eye of the beholder... We paid 7200 a few
years ago for a 78 Airstream 23' with a few problems that I didn't
recognize at the time... The draw was a custom interior in 95 with a
dinette and a satellite dish and a nice big rear bathroom...(clothes closet
was in the bathroom with a mirror on the door) . We hauled it around for a
couple of years and spent a ton on it fixing axles, water heaters ,
furnaces etc... I also did some damage to a shoulder muscle or joint
trying to get to a shine manually... We are thinking of putting it on the
market for 8500 or so and will probably get some hooraws from someone who
wants to spend 2-3 on a unit and 5k or so replacing everything over the
next couple of years... If the unit is original with the original furnace,
water heater and refer...I would run away no matter how good it looks...
the appliances are notorious for failing after 15 to 20 years of age...
along with brakes that are no longer available ( read that update and 100
per wheel) tires...( read that replace at 5 years of age...tread or
no )... LP bottles..(read that replace with OPD valve bottles )... window
and door gaskets... (replace after 10-15 years...) etc. etc. etc... The
refer is a 1000 dollar item if you get a good one and it's expected to poop
out after 20 years or so...
Bottom line is they go to hell whether you use them or not.... get a line
on what has been replaced and when....
By the way did I say we like the rear bath more that the center bath on the
32' 86 unit we purchased to give us more living room...( read that separate
bedroom and more closet space... )
Jim
At 10:20 PM 8/18/2002 -0700, you wrote:
>Hello, I'm new to this group & am looking at a really sweet, relatively
>unused 1975 Argosy 22'er. In looking around the web, I understand models
>with the rear bathrooms are to be avoided due to resulting frame problems,
>etc.? Is this always the case? Any other issues that might make this unit
>undesirable? It is not being offered inexpensively...$6,000. Any feedback
>will sure be appreciated. Thanks! Rob
------------------------------
Message Number: 5
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 21:30:32 -0400
From: "Edward Emerick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Poping Rivets on the Front
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C247C7.A5E5F3D0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello,
Thanks for the info. I have had the bed and water tank out of the front
and the floor is solid, that leaves the rotted A frame. Not a good thing
and not one that I have inspected as of late. I thought that might be it
but am in denial!
Thanks
Ed
WBCCI/VAC 4425
68 Sovereign
59 Traveler
Soon to be mine 64 Ambassador
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of
Mr. Joy H. Hansen
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 12:09 AM
To: Multiple recipients of VACList
Subject: [VAC] Re: Poping Rivets on the Front
Hi,
I always like to reply to questions that I have no earthly knowledge
about resolution; however, I'm compelled to . . .
If you take a close look at the floor up front, you'll find that it is
rotted and missing between the inverted "U" channel of the monoque and
the frame members up front. Hard to do as you have to remove the water
tank and lots of interfering furniture to take a real look. When the
floor is gone, the rivets that secure the inverted "U" channel to the
frame are free to bounce. What ever the cause, over tensioning of the
equalizer bars, etc. the monocoque can bounce and eventually break the
rivets that fasten the angle iron to the outer skin and anchor to the
space between the frame and the inverted "U" aluminum of the monocoque.
Hope all this is perfectly clear. Got to understand how the shell is
fastened to the floor to get a clear picture.
With my '69 Safari, I ground out all the fasteners across the front and
rear (same situation exists for rear rot), replaced the floor by forcing
it into it's original position, and installing new bolts to replace both
the clinching rivets and bolts. A lot of work, but much less than
trying to find the rivet holes you've worked on. Eventually, the
aluminum outer skin will deteriorate so you'll have to use larger rivets
- then replacement of the outer skin! :(
I believe that your situation involves floor deterioration across the
entire front of the unit and/or a rusted out "A" frame. It will take
careful inspection to determine the exact cause of the problem.
Good luck,
'69 Safari, Joy
------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C247C7.A5E5F3D0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" =
xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" =
xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" =
xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40";>
<head>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<meta name=3DProgId content=3DWord.Document>
<meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 10">
<meta name=3DOriginator content=3D"Microsoft Word 10">
<link rel=3DFile-List href=3D"cid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>
<o:SmartTagType =
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name=3D"time"/>
<o:SmartTagType =
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name=3D"date"/>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
<o:DoNotRelyOnCSS/>
</o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<w:WordDocument>
<w:SpellingState>Clean</w:SpellingState>
<w:GrammarState>Clean</w:GrammarState>
<w:DocumentKind>DocumentEmail</w:DocumentKind>
<w:EnvelopeVis/>
<w:Compatibility>
<w:BreakWrappedTables/>
<w:SnapToGridInCell/>
<w:WrapTextWithPunct/>
<w:UseAsianBreakRules/>
</w:Compatibility>
<w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel>
</w:WordDocument>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if !mso]>
<style>
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;
mso-font-charset:0;
mso-generic-font-family:swiss;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:553679495 -2147483648 8 0 66047 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{mso-style-parent:"";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;
mso-ascii-font-family:Arial;
mso-hansi-font-family:Arial;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:windowtext;}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;
mso-ascii-font-family:Arial;
mso-hansi-font-family:Arial;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
span.SpellE
{mso-style-name:"";
mso-spl-e:yes;}
span.GramE
{mso-style-name:"";
mso-gram-e:yes;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;
mso-header-margin:.5in;
mso-footer-margin:.5in;
mso-paper-source:0;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 10]>
<style>
/* Style Definitions */=20
table.MsoNormalTable
{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";
mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-style-parent:"";
mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;
mso-para-margin:0in;
mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
</style>
<![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body bgcolor=3Dwhite lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple =
style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'>
<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hello,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks for the info. I have had the =
bed
and water tank out of the front and the floor is solid, that leaves the =
rotted
A frame. Not a good thing and not one that I have inspected as of late. =
I
thought that might be it but am in denial!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ed<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DSpellE><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>WBCCI/VAC</span><=
/font></span><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> 4425<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>68 =
Sovereign<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>59 <span =
class=3DGramE>Traveler</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Soon to be mine 64 =
Ambassador<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On =
Behalf Of </span></b>Mr.
Joy H. Hansen<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> =
</span></font><st1:date
Month=3D"8" Day=3D"19" Year=3D"2002"><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Monday, August 19, =
2002</span></font></st1:date><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> </span></font><st1:time
Hour=3D"0" Minute=3D"9"><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>12:09 AM</span></font></st1:time><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Multiple recipients =
of VACList<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [VAC] Re: Poping =
Rivets
on the Front</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D4 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Hi,</span></font><o:p></o:p>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D4 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>I always like to reply to =
questions
that I have no earthly knowledge about resolution; however, I'm =
compelled to
. . .</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D4 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>If you take a close look at =
the
floor up front, you'll find that it is rotted and missing between the =
inverted
"U" channel of the monoque and the frame members up =
front. Hard
to do as you have to remove the water tank and lots of interfering =
furniture to
take a real look. When the floor is gone, the rivets that secure =
the
inverted "U" channel to the frame are free to bounce. =
What ever
the cause, over tensioning of the equalizer bars, etc. the monocoque can =
bounce
and eventually break the rivets that fasten the angle iron to the outer =
skin
and anchor to the space between the frame and the inverted "U"
aluminum of the monocoque. Hope all this is perfectly clear. =
Got to
understand how the shell is fastened to the floor to get a clear =
picture.
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D4 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>With my '69 Safari, I =
ground out all
the fasteners across the front and rear (same situation exists for rear =
rot),
replaced the floor by forcing it into it's original position, and =
installing
new bolts to replace both the clinching rivets and bolts. A lot of =
work,
but much less than trying to find the rivet holes you've worked =
on.
Eventually, the aluminum outer skin will deteriorate so you'll have to =
use
larger rivets - then replacement of the outer skin! =
:(</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D4 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>I believe that your =
situation
involves floor deterioration across the entire front of the unit and/or =
a
rusted out "A" frame. It will take careful inspection to
determine the exact cause of the problem.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D4 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Good =
luck,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D4 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial'> &nbs=
p;  =
; =
'69 Safari, Joy</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>
------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C247C7.A5E5F3D0--
------------------------------
Message Number: 6
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:16:04 -0400
From: "Edward Emerick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Poping Rivets on the Front
Hi Andy,
Thanks for the great post, I will take every thing into consideration
and try to solve the problem. I can provide the following based on your
9 points:
1. I tow with a 1998 � ton Suburban, LT. Not stiff at all.
2. I admit I�m right at the GVWR and GCWR maximums. I do use weight
distribution bars in a dual cam system to keep from overloading and the
unit is fairly level.
3. I�m not sure what you mean. I have new Goodyear Marathons that are
balanced and do not show signs of unusual wear.
4. My Reese hitch head has 2 hole settings 1200 and 1000 lbs. I have
always pulled (3 years now) at the 1200 lbs setting. Could be a new
problem but was not an issue in the past.
5. I have not bounced on the unit other than to see if the ball is in
place before I hook up the rest of the system. I will do so and look for
proper movement.
6. I will address first before adding rivets.
7. How high does this plate rise about the upper most row of rivets? I
would need to know in order to properly space the new row.
8. Yuck!
Thanks for the great reply to this problem, I�ll start with 1-6 over the
next couple of days and get back with you.
Ed
WBCCI/VAC 4425
68 Sovereign
59 Traveler
and soon to be mine 64 Ambassador
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 10:53 AM
To: Multiple recipients of VACList
Subject: [VAC] Re: Poping Rivets on the Front
Ed. Shearing rivets off the "front hold down plate" is not a great
mystery.
The following all can and do contribute to that failure.
1. Super heavy duty tow vehicle.
2. A tow vehicle that has overload springs.
3. Lack of proper running gear balance on the trailer.
4. Utilizing a hitch rating that is not required for the job. Each
installation is unique, and the hitch rating that should be used, must
be
determined for that rig. As an example, towing with a 1000 or 1200 pound
hitch bar when a 550 or 750 would be adequate.
5. Full water and the batteries that you have installed, can add to the
problem, when the rigging is entirely too rigid. Bouncing on the front
end of
the trailer when hooked up to the tow vehicle, should produce a
deflection of
1 1/2 to 2 inches. If not, then the setup is stiffer then need be.
6. Addressing the above should take place, before any modifications.
7. "AFTER" the rigging is softened, adding 2 to 3 more rows of rivets to
the
front hold down plate. These rivets, "MUST", go through the sheetmetal,
"AND", the steel hold down plate.
8. If the trailer has been towed many miles with super heavy duty
rigging,
the welds that hold the front plate can fail. In that case the area
behind
the LPG bottles must be stripped until the steel plate is completely
exposed,
which will permit rewelding.
9. Rivets only shear when they have been exposed to stresses that they
were
not designed to support. Redistributing some of those stresses and/or
eliminating some of them, will stop the loss of rivets.
Andy
inlandrv.com
airstreamparts.com
To unsubscribe or change to a daily Digest format, please go to
http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
------------------------------
Message Number: 7
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 20:39:23 -0700
From: Charcigar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 40's Pipe Frame models
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--Boundary_(ID_YeV1pjP3BMGOM0kGGu5reQ)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Thanks to both Tuna and Fred for those very informative replies.Completely
satisfied my curiosity!
Charlotte
--Boundary_(ID_YeV1pjP3BMGOM0kGGu5reQ)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2716.2200" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Thanks to both Tuna and Fred for
those very informative replies.Completely satisfied my curiosity!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Charlotte</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
--Boundary_(ID_YeV1pjP3BMGOM0kGGu5reQ)--
------------------------------
Message Number: 8
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:28:40 EDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Poping Rivets on the Front
Ed.
There are several things in your rigging that could have contributed to the
loss of rivets on the front plate.
1. Your bars are entirely too stiff for your application. Since you have a
heavy duty tow vehicle, the rating of your bars should be 750 pounds. That
will permit the bars to bend at least 1 to 1 1/2 inches, which will also
increase the performance of your sway control, if you are using the "dual
cam." If your not using the dual cam, you should.
2. Do you have the overload leaf spring on your Suburban? If so, it should be
removed.
3. What is the condition of your axles? Should the rubber rods have failed in
your axles, then the trailer is bottoming out when hitting bumps. To check
out your axles, please go to our web site, inlandrv.com Click on
"articles" and then click on "Dura-torque Axles." That article provides
"check out" instructions.
4. Running gear balance also includes the hub and drum assemblies. Many times
they are several ounces out of balance, especially with the vintage era.
Combining vibration from 4 such wheels, often contributes to many "crazy"
things or damage.
5. The "front hold down plate" varies in height from year to year. The safest
way to add rivets is to remove your front pull out lounge, and probably the
water tank as well. Then remove the vinyl clad panel below the front window.
Remove the insulation. You now will see the "front plate". Inspect it
carefully for cracked welds that may allow the plate to "float". Add at least
3 horizontal rows of "buck" rivets to match the original design. In this case
using buck rivets has an advantage over the "Olympic rivets" because they
will allow a tighter fit in the holes that you drill.
The "what happening" in your case is easy to see. The "why" is the elusive
part. Therefore, unfortunately, all the possibilities should be examined.
Andy
inlandrv.com
airstreamparts.com
------------------------------
Message Number: 9
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:17:20 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Trailer Travel - A Visual History of Mobile America - SF Book Signing
--openmail-part-136a2032-00000001
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Disposition: inline
;Creation-Date="Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:17:20 -0700"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
For those of you in the San Francisco Bay Area, the authors of the new
vintage trailer book, Trailer Travel - A Visual History of Mobile
America, will have a book signing tomorrow (8/21) & history
presentation. Bryan Burkhart is the Vintage Advantage Editor and a
WBCCI/VAC member with a '63 Flying Cloud. More details on the book at:
http://airstream.org/reading.html
Book signing details below:
RJ
VAC Webmaster
------------
Builders Booksource
1817 4th St. Berkeley (near Hearst)
Call for more info or directions! 800-843-2028
Event starts promptly at 7:30PM and typically begin
with a slide presentation followed by an open question
period and book signing. We normally finish up around
9pm. Arrive early for a good seat!
AUGUST 21, WEDNESDAY 7:30 PM
TRAILER TRAVEL, a Visual History of Mobile America
by Bryan Burkhart & Allison Arieff
--openmail-part-136a2032-00000001--
------------------------------
Message Number: 10
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 17:30:56 -0400
From: "James Greene" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Replacement Refrigerator
Dave, I replaced the Dometic fridge in my Tradewind. On my trailer, it was
an easy RR to do. I removed the panel/bulkhead on the immediate left as you
enter the door. That made it easy to remove the screws through the fridge
base into the floor. There was an small angle iron attached to the underside
of the counter above the fridge to remove. The biggest problem I had was
running the gas line which attaches at a different place on the new Dometic
2510-2. I wouldn't spend the extra money to get 12 volt DC operation because
of the battery drain. If your fridge is in a different location, access
would be different. You might be able to reach the screws from the outside
access door.
Jim Greene
' 68 Tradewind
----- Original Message -----
From: "David W. Lowrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Multiple recipients of VACList" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 21:07
Subject: [VAC] Replacement Refrigerator
> Well, last Tuesday, whilst on our way to the OBX Rally, we opened our
> refrigerator only to discover the lovely odor of ammonia... :-( A trip to
> Wally World to get a couple of coolers. as well as a lot of duct tape to
> seal up the fridge, and we were on our way)
>
> We just returned home, so, it will soon be replacement time....
>
> Now, I BELIEVE that I have a RM100 in my 1977 31' Sovereign International.
> The model plate is scratched up, so I wont know until I remove it and get
> exact dimensions. It's a 3-way unit.
>
> According to the Dometic web site, I can get a 3-way to replace it, but
the
> new unit is 4 1/2 inches higher.
>
> I can also replace it with a RM2820 "classic" model thats supposed to be a
> close fit.
>
> Has anyone done either of these replacements? I am willing to loose the
> small cabinet below the refrigerator, if necessary.
>
> What sort of work is required?
>
> Also, I will be looking into just replacing the cooling unit with a
rebuilt
> one as well...
>
> Dave
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Dave & Ann Lowrey - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> WBCCI: 5074
>
> 1977 31' Sovereign International (center bath)
> Cincinnati, Ohio
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a daily Digest format, please go to
> http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
>
> When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>
------------------------------
Message Number: 11
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 18:26:32 -0400
From: "Mr. Joy H. Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: '74 Argosy tire problems . . .
Hi All,
I opted to get the Carlisle 700-15 bias ply trailer tires for my Argosy.
After mounting, I noted that I have near "0" clearance behind the tag axle
and the wheel well housing - like I now see that previous tires have left
the tread marks on the aluminum. Seems that this is a long term problem and
not necessarily due to the new tires. I have the tires at 60 pounds as
recommended on the sidewall of the tires. Since it's a tandem, I could drop
the pressure to 40 or so pounds and still retain the load bearing of the
tire except for the additional sidewall heating - not good!
Anyway, the question is concerning adjustment of the tag axle. Is there
forward and rear adjustment for the axle. It seems to me that there should
be some adjustment to allow for alignment. I'm reluctant to cut out the
wheel well to give lots of clearance for the tire. There's about 5 inches
from the front of the wheel well to the tire, about 5 inches between the
front and tag tire, and near "0" between the rear of the wheel well and the
tire! :(
Any suggestions will be welcomed even if it is to replacement of the tires.
However, these tires are the replacements for the original tires on the
Argosy.
Thanks for any help.
'74 Argosy, Joy
------------------------------
Message Number: 12
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 18:42:47 -0400
From: "Mr. Joy H. Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Jon Fitz
Hello Jon Fitz?
Tried what I thought was your off-list address, but no reply.
Help, Joy
------------------------------
Message Number: 13
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 19:53:37 -0700
From: Tuna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: test - delete
isp's acting up again.
------------------------------
End of VACList-Digest #400
************************************
To unsubscribe or change to a e-mail format format, please go to
http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
