And : http://scienceblogs.com/principles/2007/10/26/quantum-consciousness-and-the/
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Giovanni Santostasi <gsantost...@gmail.com>wrote: > This is a and more complete criticism of Penrose ideas on consciousness. > http://www.mth.kcl.ac.uk/~llandau/Homepage/Math/penrose.html > > Giovanni > > > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Giovanni Santostasi <gsantost...@gmail.com > > wrote: > >> This is not a complete criticism but it basically summarizes the main >> point, there is no need to introduce quantum mechanics to explain >> consciousness. We have not yet a full explanation but everything we know >> about neuroscience points to an explanation that would need just classical >> physics (networks and dynamical systems). >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=Gq9ldQys3_E&NR=1 >> >> Giovanni >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Statewide Homes Peter B < >> ddc...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Can theology and our science ever fully agree >>> >>> Can our little brains fully understand Gods mind >>> >>> Can knowledge fully understand the things of the Spirit >>> >>> Knowledge says The Spirit spoke through a donkey , is God part mule >>> >>> knowledge says He protects us and gathers us and hides us under his >>> wings , is He part chook >>> >>> knowledge says He organised his own son to be Tortued and killed , is He >>> part maniac >>> >>> >>> >>> This I trust , after examineing his words and actions >>> >>> Jesus said to Phillip ...."when you see me , you see the Father " not >>> long after these words Jesus let them do what they wanted . They crucified >>> him >>> >>> Knowledge says , I now have eternal life , His love has bought me >>> >>> Science is great , I enjoy it . Theology is interesting and helpful, but >>> in the end I personally had to trust in His love for me . This is the thing >>> that has given me a Peace that has surpast my understanding >>> >>> Pete >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 16:17:17 -0400 >>> >>> Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? >>> From: janap...@gmail.com >>> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >>> >>> >>> Some believe that the soul comes into being when the human egg is >>> fertilized; aka the moment of conception. In this way of thinking, >>> with DNA as the software of the soul, the human DNA has the potential to >>> form a complete person, but at the time of conception no organ is yet >>> formed to contain the soul. With current technology, any cell in the >>> body can be transformed into a omnipotent cell that can produce a human. >>> So human spiritual characteristic is inherent in any DNA present in >>> the human body. If this is true, do you commit murder when you cut >>> your hair or trim your finger nails? If a mouse is given flawed >>> disease carrying human DNA to simulate human disease or a goat is given >>> human genes to produce human insulin, have these animals become human with >>> a soul. If a geneticist copies human DNA, and puts it into a animal >>> cell, does the animal become human? What parts of human DNA define the soul? >>> Please extend your theology into the domain of genetic manipulation >>> in your quest to define the soul. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Jojo Jaro <jth...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> ** >>> You've made my point better than I. For when you are studying the ones >>> and zeros wherever they may persist, you are in fact studying the >>> software. The ones and zeros are not hardware, they're software. >>> >>> Much like the soul. We can spend a hundred lifetimes studying neuron >>> chemical reactions, electrical impulses, cellular structure of brain cells >>> and other psychological theories and mumbo-jumbo; we will never understand >>> how Human consciousness works. To understand the human soul, one needs to >>> understand its creator. Much like studying the software requires an >>> understanding of Microsoft Software Engineer's design methods and >>> techniques, in fact, a understanding of the man himself. >>> >>> Tell me, can you reverse engineer the entire windows operating >>> system from the ones and zeros of machine code? Doesn't understanding >>> windows require understanding of its design at a higher level? not at the >>> machine code level? possibly by interviewing the designer and studying his >>> work? Why would one think he can understand the human soul by studying the >>> individual ones and zeros of the neurons? >>> >>> You see, this issue goes deeper than just discussions about the human >>> soul. This issue involves our humanistic prederilection to avoid >>> acknowledging the creator. We try our best to understand ourselves without >>> studying the human blueprint. Such efforts are always doom to fail, much >>> like the fallacies of Darwinian Evolution. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jojo >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> *From:* Patrick Ellul <ellulpatr...@gmail.com> >>> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com >>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:43 PM >>> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? >>> >>> If I studied close enough the inside of a computer that has MS Windows >>> installed on it, without ever switching it on, I can still see and >>> understand the expected behaviour. The software program is persisted as >>> ones and zeros on a memory device. >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Jojo Jaro <jth...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Any psychological/psychiatric/**philosophical attempt to understand the >>> soul is doom to failure from the onset. >>> >>> Let says you're a hardware/ASIC/Electronics/IC engineer who designed the >>> Pentuim chip. Without understanding of the software, can you discern the >>> operation of a PC from your understanding of the >>> hardware/Chips/IC/CPU/GPU/etc? At best, you understanding would be >>> severely incomplete and faulty. Software is the intangible thing that >>> controls the behavior of the computer. Software controls the hardware. >>> >>> On the same token, experts in Psychology/Psychiatry/** >>> Philosophy/Sociology/Humanism/**etc, can never hope to completely >>> understand the Human Soul. It is that intangible entity - the soul, that >>> controls the hardware consisting of your brain cells/neurons, etc. The >>> Software soul is what needs to be understood for us to understand the >>> behavior of man. You need to study the soul, not the brain. The brain is >>> simply a mechanism that the soul controls much like the CPU chip is the >>> mechanism that MS Windows controls. The analogy is apt and accurate. >>> >>> Hence, one is wasting their time trying to study all the ideas of these >>> philosophers/psychologists/**psychiatrists/etc. They are at best >>> severely incomplete, at worst gravely misleading. >>> >>> If you want to understand the spiritual soul, go to the one who wrote >>> the software soul. Study his book - the Bible to have a better >>> understanding of human behavior. >>> >>> >>> Jojo >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Blanton" <hohlr...@gmail.com> >>> To: <vortex-l@eskimo.com> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:15 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? >>> >>> >>> >>> I think Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff have the best explanation of >>> consciousness to date. It's called Orchestrated Objective Reduction, >>> or Orch-OR. The two actually developed the idea separately, Sir >>> Penrose being a physicist and Hameroff being a physician who >>> specialized in anesthesia and cancer research. Roger was seeking a >>> model of the brain that did not require computation. Hameroff wanted >>> to know how anesthesia worked and where the conscious went when under. >>> Penrose theorizes that spacetime is granular at the size of the >>> Planck length and that quantum superposition is linked to the >>> curvature. Orchestrated Reduction is the collapse of the >>> superposition. >>> >>> Hameroff brought in the neuron microtubles which provide the >>> structure. He sees a synchronous oscillation in neural MT can >>> influence other neurons. Together they see these electrons as a sea >>> embedded in the geometry of spacetime. >>> >>> Needless to say, they have many critics. :-) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Patrick >>> >>> www.tRacePerfect.com >>> The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect! >>> The quickest puzzle ever! >>> >>> >>> >> >
