This is not a complete criticism but it basically summarizes the main point, there is no need to introduce quantum mechanics to explain consciousness. We have not yet a full explanation but everything we know about neuroscience points to an explanation that would need just classical physics (networks and dynamical systems).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=Gq9ldQys3_E&NR=1 Giovanni On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Statewide Homes Peter B <ddc...@hotmail.com>wrote: > Can theology and our science ever fully agree > > Can our little brains fully understand Gods mind > > Can knowledge fully understand the things of the Spirit > > Knowledge says The Spirit spoke through a donkey , is God part mule > > knowledge says He protects us and gathers us and hides us under his wings > , is He part chook > > knowledge says He organised his own son to be Tortued and killed , is He > part maniac > > > > This I trust , after examineing his words and actions > > Jesus said to Phillip ...."when you see me , you see the Father " not long > after these words Jesus let them do what they wanted . They crucified him > > Knowledge says , I now have eternal life , His love has bought me > > Science is great , I enjoy it . Theology is interesting and helpful, but > in the end I personally had to trust in His love for me . This is the thing > that has given me a Peace that has surpast my understanding > > Pete > > ------------------------------ > Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 16:17:17 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? > From: janap...@gmail.com > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > > > Some believe that the soul comes into being when the human egg is > fertilized; aka the moment of conception. In this way of thinking, with > DNA as the software of the soul, the human DNA has the potential to form a > complete person, but at the time of conception no organ is yet formed to > contain the soul. With current technology, any cell in the body can be > transformed into a omnipotent cell that can produce a human. So human > spiritual characteristic is inherent in any DNA present in the human body. > If this is true, do you commit murder when you cut your hair or trim > your finger nails? If a mouse is given flawed disease carrying human > DNA to simulate human disease or a goat is given human genes to produce > human insulin, have these animals become human with a soul. If a > geneticist copies human DNA, and puts it into a animal cell, does the > animal become human? What parts of human DNA define the soul? Please > extend your theology into the domain of genetic manipulation in your quest > to define the soul. > > > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Jojo Jaro <jth...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > ** > You've made my point better than I. For when you are studying the ones > and zeros wherever they may persist, you are in fact studying the > software. The ones and zeros are not hardware, they're software. > > Much like the soul. We can spend a hundred lifetimes studying neuron > chemical reactions, electrical impulses, cellular structure of brain cells > and other psychological theories and mumbo-jumbo; we will never understand > how Human consciousness works. To understand the human soul, one needs to > understand its creator. Much like studying the software requires an > understanding of Microsoft Software Engineer's design methods and > techniques, in fact, a understanding of the man himself. > > Tell me, can you reverse engineer the entire windows operating system from > the ones and zeros of machine code? Doesn't understanding windows require > understanding of its design at a higher level? not at the machine code > level? possibly by interviewing the designer and studying his work? Why > would one think he can understand the human soul by studying the individual > ones and zeros of the neurons? > > You see, this issue goes deeper than just discussions about the human > soul. This issue involves our humanistic prederilection to avoid > acknowledging the creator. We try our best to understand ourselves without > studying the human blueprint. Such efforts are always doom to fail, much > like the fallacies of Darwinian Evolution. > > > > Jojo > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Patrick Ellul <ellulpatr...@gmail.com> > *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com > *Sent:* Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:43 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? > > If I studied close enough the inside of a computer that has MS Windows > installed on it, without ever switching it on, I can still see and > understand the expected behaviour. The software program is persisted as > ones and zeros on a memory device. > > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Jojo Jaro <jth...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Any psychological/psychiatric/**philosophical attempt to understand the > soul is doom to failure from the onset. > > Let says you're a hardware/ASIC/Electronics/IC engineer who designed the > Pentuim chip. Without understanding of the software, can you discern the > operation of a PC from your understanding of the > hardware/Chips/IC/CPU/GPU/etc? At best, you understanding would be > severely incomplete and faulty. Software is the intangible thing that > controls the behavior of the computer. Software controls the hardware. > > On the same token, experts in Psychology/Psychiatry/** > Philosophy/Sociology/Humanism/**etc, can never hope to completely > understand the Human Soul. It is that intangible entity - the soul, that > controls the hardware consisting of your brain cells/neurons, etc. The > Software soul is what needs to be understood for us to understand the > behavior of man. You need to study the soul, not the brain. The brain is > simply a mechanism that the soul controls much like the CPU chip is the > mechanism that MS Windows controls. The analogy is apt and accurate. > > Hence, one is wasting their time trying to study all the ideas of these > philosophers/psychologists/**psychiatrists/etc. They are at best > severely incomplete, at worst gravely misleading. > > If you want to understand the spiritual soul, go to the one who wrote the > software soul. Study his book - the Bible to have a better understanding > of human behavior. > > > Jojo > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Blanton" <hohlr...@gmail.com> > To: <vortex-l@eskimo.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:15 PM > Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? > > > > I think Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff have the best explanation of > consciousness to date. It's called Orchestrated Objective Reduction, > or Orch-OR. The two actually developed the idea separately, Sir > Penrose being a physicist and Hameroff being a physician who > specialized in anesthesia and cancer research. Roger was seeking a > model of the brain that did not require computation. Hameroff wanted > to know how anesthesia worked and where the conscious went when under. > Penrose theorizes that spacetime is granular at the size of the > Planck length and that quantum superposition is linked to the > curvature. Orchestrated Reduction is the collapse of the > superposition. > > Hameroff brought in the neuron microtubles which provide the > structure. He sees a synchronous oscillation in neural MT can > influence other neurons. Together they see these electrons as a sea > embedded in the geometry of spacetime. > > Needless to say, they have many critics. :-) > > > > > > > -- > Patrick > > www.tRacePerfect.com > The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect! > The quickest puzzle ever! > > >
