A chimera or chimaera is a single organism that is composed of two or more different populations of genetically distinct cells that originated from different zygotes involved in sexual reproduction.
Chimeras are formed from at least four parent cells (two fertilized eggs or early embryos fused together). Each population of cells keeps its own character and the resulting organism is a mixture of tissues. Chimeras are typically seen in animals; there are some reports of human chimerism. In the process of human chimerism, two separate souls existed at the time of conception. When the early embryos fused together sometime after conception, does two souls become one? Or does one of the souls die? Does the chimera have two souls? What Bible verse direct us in answering these soul allocation questions associated with the formation of a chimera? ===================================== Regarding the soul formation process associated with identical twin formation. When the soul is created at conception, one soul is formed. But at a later time, the blastocyst undergoes fission into two separate individuals. When is the soul of the second individual formed? This second soul could not have been in place at the time of conception. I contend that the Bible does not cover this secondary soul creation process. Am I correct on this point? On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Jojo Jaro <jth...@hotmail.com> wrote: > ** > Axil, I always like your responses because you always get me thinking > deeper. Anyways, I feel there are a few errors in your logic. > > First, you need to realize that the body - cells, DNA, etc. that form the > human physical attributes exist in only 4 dimensions (length, width, > height, and time). The soul on the other hand, comes from God and imparted > by God and hence is "Spiritual" - metaphysical. A Soul is a > "hyper-dimensional" entity. It exists beyond the 4 dimensions of our > physical existence. That is why it survives our physical death. Your > presupposition that a single fertilized egg, being small and > non-functionalized, therefore can not "contain" the soul is a faulty > premise. The soul is not bound by the size nor the non-functionality of a > single egg. > > Second, you presuppose that the soul is "bound" to the cells and DNA. > IOW, you say that by destroying a fingernail, you are "killing" a living > entity. That is in fact is a faulty understanding. The soul is not bound > to any cell or DNA. It exist 'with' our physical cells, DNA and body; not > exist 'because of' our physical cells, DNA and body. The cells does not > contaiin "part of a soul" that you kill when you trim your fingernail. The > source of your (mis)understanding is the ancient occultic religion > of animism, which presupposes that everything has a "soul", including > inanimate objects like rocks and fingernails. > > Third. The creator of our being, clearly says that life starts in the > womb. That means, conception is the time He imparts the living soul. The > Bible teaches that God breathed into Adam and Adam became a Living soul. > Before God's breathe, Adam was just a collection of dirt. God imparted the > life. Before conception, the female egg is not alive, hence, when a woman > experiences a menstrual cycle, that is not murder. Immediately at > conception, God breathe into that union of egg and sperm a life. From that > point on, that cells contains a living soul. That life is alive until such > time as God decides to separate that living soul from that body, hence > physical death occurs. > > Fourth, Putting human DNA to animal or vice versa has nothing to do with > life or the soul. Man can do this all day long but until God breathes into > that creation, it is not a lviing soul. As mentioned above, the soul is > not bound to a cell or single DNA that you carry along with it when you > transfer DNA to another animal. The soul is software. A computer is dead > without software. You do not transfer software when you transfer a single > resistor of a PC into another circuit. > > Last, my understanding is not of my own origin. I have no intellect to > extend "my" theology, since it is not "my" theology to begin with. If you > want to understand man and his soul, you have to study the software manual > that comes with it. You need to study the Bible. > > > > > Jojo > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com> > *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com > *Sent:* Friday, November 02, 2012 4:17 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? > > Some believe that the soul comes into being when the human egg is > fertilized; aka the moment of conception. In this way of thinking, with > DNA as the software of the soul, the human DNA has the potential to form a > complete person, but at the time of conception no organ is yet formed to > contain the soul. With current technology, any cell in the body can be > transformed into a omnipotent cell that can produce a human. So human > spiritual characteristic is inherent in any DNA present in the human body. > If this is true, do you commit murder when you cut your hair or trim > your finger nails? If a mouse is given flawed disease carrying human > DNA to simulate human disease or a goat is given human genes to produce > human insulin, have these animals become human with a soul. If a > geneticist copies human DNA, and puts it into a animal cell, does the > animal become human? What parts of human DNA define the soul? Please > extend your theology into the domain of genetic manipulation in your quest > to define the soul. > > > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Jojo Jaro <jth...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> ** >> You've made my point better than I. For when you are studying the ones >> and zeros wherever they may persist, you are in fact studying the >> software. The ones and zeros are not hardware, they're software. >> >> Much like the soul. We can spend a hundred lifetimes studying neuron >> chemical reactions, electrical impulses, cellular structure of brain cells >> and other psychological theories and mumbo-jumbo; we will never understand >> how Human consciousness works. To understand the human soul, one needs to >> understand its creator. Much like studying the software requires an >> understanding of Microsoft Software Engineer's design methods and >> techniques, in fact, a understanding of the man himself. >> >> Tell me, can you reverse engineer the entire windows operating >> system from the ones and zeros of machine code? Doesn't understanding >> windows require understanding of its design at a higher level? not at the >> machine code level? possibly by interviewing the designer and studying his >> work? Why would one think he can understand the human soul by studying the >> individual ones and zeros of the neurons? >> >> You see, this issue goes deeper than just discussions about the human >> soul. This issue involves our humanistic prederilection to avoid >> acknowledging the creator. We try our best to understand ourselves without >> studying the human blueprint. Such efforts are always doom to fail, much >> like the fallacies of Darwinian Evolution. >> >> >> >> Jojo >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Patrick Ellul <ellulpatr...@gmail.com> >> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com >> *Sent:* Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:43 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? >> >> If I studied close enough the inside of a computer that has MS Windows >> installed on it, without ever switching it on, I can still see and >> understand the expected behaviour. The software program is persisted as >> ones and zeros on a memory device. >> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Jojo Jaro <jth...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Any psychological/psychiatric/**philosophical attempt to understand the >>> soul is doom to failure from the onset. >>> >>> Let says you're a hardware/ASIC/Electronics/IC engineer who designed the >>> Pentuim chip. Without understanding of the software, can you discern the >>> operation of a PC from your understanding of the >>> hardware/Chips/IC/CPU/GPU/etc? At best, you understanding would be >>> severely incomplete and faulty. Software is the intangible thing that >>> controls the behavior of the computer. Software controls the hardware. >>> >>> On the same token, experts in Psychology/Psychiatry/** >>> Philosophy/Sociology/Humanism/**etc, can never hope to completely >>> understand the Human Soul. It is that intangible entity - the soul, that >>> controls the hardware consisting of your brain cells/neurons, etc. The >>> Software soul is what needs to be understood for us to understand the >>> behavior of man. You need to study the soul, not the brain. The brain is >>> simply a mechanism that the soul controls much like the CPU chip is the >>> mechanism that MS Windows controls. The analogy is apt and accurate. >>> >>> Hence, one is wasting their time trying to study all the ideas of these >>> philosophers/psychologists/**psychiatrists/etc. They are at best >>> severely incomplete, at worst gravely misleading. >>> >>> If you want to understand the spiritual soul, go to the one who wrote >>> the software soul. Study his book - the Bible to have a better >>> understanding of human behavior. >>> >>> >>> Jojo >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Blanton" <hohlr...@gmail.com> >>> To: <vortex-l@eskimo.com> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:15 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? >>> >>> >>> >>> I think Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff have the best explanation of >>>> consciousness to date. It's called Orchestrated Objective Reduction, >>>> or Orch-OR. The two actually developed the idea separately, Sir >>>> Penrose being a physicist and Hameroff being a physician who >>>> specialized in anesthesia and cancer research. Roger was seeking a >>>> model of the brain that did not require computation. Hameroff wanted >>>> to know how anesthesia worked and where the conscious went when under. >>>> Penrose theorizes that spacetime is granular at the size of the >>>> Planck length and that quantum superposition is linked to the >>>> curvature. Orchestrated Reduction is the collapse of the >>>> superposition. >>>> >>>> Hameroff brought in the neuron microtubles which provide the >>>> structure. He sees a synchronous oscillation in neural MT can >>>> influence other neurons. Together they see these electrons as a sea >>>> embedded in the geometry of spacetime. >>>> >>>> Needless to say, they have many critics. :-) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Patrick >> >> www.tRacePerfect.com >> The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect! >> The quickest puzzle ever! >> >> >
