Axil, I always like your responses because you always get me thinking deeper.
Anyways, I feel there are a few errors in your logic.
First, you need to realize that the body - cells, DNA, etc. that form the human
physical attributes exist in only 4 dimensions (length, width, height, and
time). The soul on the other hand, comes from God and imparted by God and
hence is "Spiritual" - metaphysical. A Soul is a "hyper-dimensional" entity.
It exists beyond the 4 dimensions of our physical existence. That is why it
survives our physical death. Your presupposition that a single fertilized egg,
being small and non-functionalized, therefore can not "contain" the soul is a
faulty premise. The soul is not bound by the size nor the non-functionality of
a single egg.
Second, you presuppose that the soul is "bound" to the cells and DNA. IOW, you
say that by destroying a fingernail, you are "killing" a living entity. That
is in fact is a faulty understanding. The soul is not bound to any cell or
DNA. It exist 'with' our physical cells, DNA and body; not exist 'because of'
our physical cells, DNA and body. The cells does not contaiin "part of a soul"
that you kill when you trim your fingernail. The source of your
(mis)understanding is the ancient occultic religion of animism, which
presupposes that everything has a "soul", including inanimate objects like
rocks and fingernails.
Third. The creator of our being, clearly says that life starts in the womb.
That means, conception is the time He imparts the living soul. The Bible
teaches that God breathed into Adam and Adam became a Living soul. Before
God's breathe, Adam was just a collection of dirt. God imparted the life.
Before conception, the female egg is not alive, hence, when a woman experiences
a menstrual cycle, that is not murder. Immediately at conception, God breathe
into that union of egg and sperm a life. From that point on, that cells
contains a living soul. That life is alive until such time as God decides to
separate that living soul from that body, hence physical death occurs.
Fourth, Putting human DNA to animal or vice versa has nothing to do with life
or the soul. Man can do this all day long but until God breathes into that
creation, it is not a lviing soul. As mentioned above, the soul is not bound
to a cell or single DNA that you carry along with it when you transfer DNA to
another animal. The soul is software. A computer is dead without software.
You do not transfer software when you transfer a single resistor of a PC into
another circuit.
Last, my understanding is not of my own origin. I have no intellect to extend
"my" theology, since it is not "my" theology to begin with. If you want to
understand man and his soul, you have to study the software manual that comes
with it. You need to study the Bible.
Jojo
----- Original Message -----
From: Axil Axil
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 4:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul?
Some believe that the soul comes into being when the human egg is fertilized;
aka the moment of conception.
In this way of thinking, with DNA as the software of the soul, the human DNA
has the potential to form a complete person, but at the time of conception no
organ is yet formed to contain the soul.
With current technology, any cell in the body can be transformed into a
omnipotent cell that can produce a human.
So human spiritual characteristic is inherent in any DNA present in the human
body.
If this is true, do you commit murder when you cut your hair or trim your
finger nails?
If a mouse is given flawed disease carrying human DNA to simulate human
disease or a goat is given human genes to produce human insulin, have these
animals become human with a soul.
If a geneticist copies human DNA, and puts it into a animal cell, does the
animal become human? What parts of human DNA define the soul?
Please extend your theology into the domain of genetic manipulation in your
quest to define the soul.
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Jojo Jaro <jth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
You've made my point better than I. For when you are studying the ones and
zeros wherever they may persist, you are in fact studying the software. The
ones and zeros are not hardware, they're software.
Much like the soul. We can spend a hundred lifetimes studying neuron
chemical reactions, electrical impulses, cellular structure of brain cells and
other psychological theories and mumbo-jumbo; we will never understand how
Human consciousness works. To understand the human soul, one needs to
understand its creator. Much like studying the software requires an
understanding of Microsoft Software Engineer's design methods and techniques,
in fact, a understanding of the man himself.
Tell me, can you reverse engineer the entire windows operating system from
the ones and zeros of machine code? Doesn't understanding windows require
understanding of its design at a higher level? not at the machine code level?
possibly by interviewing the designer and studying his work? Why would one
think he can understand the human soul by studying the individual ones and
zeros of the neurons?
You see, this issue goes deeper than just discussions about the human soul.
This issue involves our humanistic prederilection to avoid acknowledging the
creator. We try our best to understand ourselves without studying the human
blueprint. Such efforts are always doom to fail, much like the fallacies of
Darwinian Evolution.
Jojo
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Ellul
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul?
If I studied close enough the inside of a computer that has MS Windows
installed on it, without ever switching it on, I can still see and understand
the expected behaviour. The software program is persisted as ones and zeros on
a memory device.
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Jojo Jaro <jth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Any psychological/psychiatric/philosophical attempt to understand the
soul is doom to failure from the onset.
Let says you're a hardware/ASIC/Electronics/IC engineer who designed
the Pentuim chip. Without understanding of the software, can you discern the
operation of a PC from your understanding of the hardware/Chips/IC/CPU/GPU/etc?
At best, you understanding would be severely incomplete and faulty. Software
is the intangible thing that controls the behavior of the computer. Software
controls the hardware.
On the same token, experts in
Psychology/Psychiatry/Philosophy/Sociology/Humanism/etc, can never hope to
completely understand the Human Soul. It is that intangible entity - the soul,
that controls the hardware consisting of your brain cells/neurons, etc. The
Software soul is what needs to be understood for us to understand the behavior
of man. You need to study the soul, not the brain. The brain is simply a
mechanism that the soul controls much like the CPU chip is the mechanism that
MS Windows controls. The analogy is apt and accurate.
Hence, one is wasting their time trying to study all the ideas of these
philosophers/psychologists/psychiatrists/etc. They are at best severely
incomplete, at worst gravely misleading.
If you want to understand the spiritual soul, go to the one who wrote
the software soul. Study his book - the Bible to have a better understanding
of human behavior.
Jojo
----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Blanton" <hohlr...@gmail.com>
To: <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul?
I think Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff have the best explanation of
consciousness to date. It's called Orchestrated Objective Reduction,
or Orch-OR. The two actually developed the idea separately, Sir
Penrose being a physicist and Hameroff being a physician who
specialized in anesthesia and cancer research. Roger was seeking a
model of the brain that did not require computation. Hameroff wanted
to know how anesthesia worked and where the conscious went when under.
Penrose theorizes that spacetime is granular at the size of the
Planck length and that quantum superposition is linked to the
curvature. Orchestrated Reduction is the collapse of the
superposition.
Hameroff brought in the neuron microtubles which provide the
structure. He sees a synchronous oscillation in neural MT can
influence other neurons. Together they see these electrons as a sea
embedded in the geometry of spacetime.
Needless to say, they have many critics. :-)
--
Patrick
www.tRacePerfect.com
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