Hoi,
Such separate hostings and ownership would not be that much of a risk to
the WMF. The challenges will be first and foremost with the separatists;
then again it is firmly their choice. There will be benefits on both sides
as well. The community that remains with the WMF will lose all of the
separatists and they will sadly see some of them go. It will allow for the
influx of new people and new ideas. The people that go will get a reality
check; they will find out to what extend the things they fought battles
over are actually worth it. I am sure that both communities will benefit.
When the people who talk about going their own way rethink their stance and
start considering the other side of the coin it may lead to an equilibrium.
However, the Visual Editor is not the only thing that will change the look
and feel there is so much more happening and at that, a single community
only considering its own is in effect a cul de sac.
When numbers of readers are to be our main worry, it should be obvious by
now that both for editing and reading they are happening on the mobile, the
tablet. This is were our new readers are happening. Maybe not necessarily
in Europe but certainly in the global south. They have by definition a
different mode of operandi and consequently much of our current bickering
is only distracting from putting our efforts in welcoming our newbies and
building a full fledged environment for them.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 28 August 2014 09:34, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote:
> WMF update:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:LilaTretikov_(WMF)&diff=9665238&oldid=9664457
>
> Gerard, I agree that a forked wiki could have collaborations with WMF. But
> having separate hosting and legal ownership would create new headaches and
> risks. I hope WMF takes a cooperative and democratic approach so that we
> can work in harmony without forking.
>
> There will almost always be people unhappy with major decisions. We should
> aim for consensus, not necessarily unanimous decisions. Recently it seemed
> to me that the consensus was leaning toward beginning a fork for at least
> DEWP. This is not a small subset of people who are upset with WMF.
>
> Perhaps someone can explain what is so alarming about our readership stats
> and how MV is likely to improve our readership stats. To me the
> disappointing active editor stats are the biggest worry.
>
> Thanks,
> Pine
> On Aug 26, 2014 3:14 AM, "Gerard Meijssen" <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hoi,
> > Actually the issue is no longer only that. It is also very much about
> how a
> > subset of people high jack the conversation by their uncompromising
> stance.
> > When they feel they might leave, I personally prefer it when they stop
> > their posturing and decide either way.
> >
> > When they want to stay, they do not need to be welcomed, they are part of
> > us. When they go, they are welcome and they can take with them everything
> > we have in the sense of data and software. It is then for them to show
> that
> > their proof is in their pudding. In the mean time WMF will continue to
> > engage in best practices both technically and socially and when they cook
> > something nice, what is on offer is there for the eating as well.
> >
> > As far as I am concerned, put up or shut up.
> >
> > It has been advertised widely that bugs will be squashed. It is also
> > advertised widely that changes will be considered as long as they are
> > reasonable and do not interfere with our prime directive. Again, it is
> > about the readers not super users.
> > Thanks,
> > GerardM
> >
> >
> > On 25 August 2014 11:16, Pine W <wiki.p...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > The issue is not just that individual users may want to opt out, it's
> > > whether it should be activated by default for readers. There is also
> the
> > > matter of licensing information.
> > >
> > > I'm not aware of where "thermonuclear was was threatened". There were,
> > and
> > > continues to be, discussion about forking. MV is merely the latest
> > > occurrence of products with major problems being pushed into production
> > and
> > > made default. That needs to be addressed, and the fact that the
> problems
> > > with MV happened after AFT5 and VE *and* after the creation of the
> > > Engineering Community Liaisons suggests deep, long-term problems with
> > > product development. I believe that Lila said that the Board wants her
> to
> > > transform WMF and I am glad that there seems to be agreement that
> Product
> > > will be an early subject of transformation. I have reservations about
> > > forking for reasons that I can explain if necessary. It would be a lot
> > > easier if WMF would transform itself, starting with Product, and Lila
> > > appears to intend to make this happen. I hope that the processes for
> > > Product will be democratic and consensus-based. Grantmaking has already
> > > demonstrated the effectiveness of community-based decision making with
> > FDC
> > > and IEGCom, and I hope to see a similar model emerge for Product. If it
> > > doesn't, there is enough anger in the community, especially on DEWP,
> > that a
> > > fork is possible. The community is smart enough collectively to figure
> > out
> > > a way to make a fork happen, and some of us have been discussing the
> > > mechanics of how this would work. We could do it, but reforming WMF is
> > > preferable. I hope that Lila can and will do this. Internal
> > transofmration
> > > is preferable to replacing WMF.
> > >
> > > Pine
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