--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Smart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Zen practice does not have things that are allowed or disallowed.
Bill, I think this is a word-game. What does it mean if something is 'not allowed'? You write: "There are things, however, that people throughout the ages have found helpful and things that they have found are not helpful." Let's compare this with someone following a specific diet to loose weight. This diet says he should not eat two cakes in the morning. One can say he is not allowed to eat two cakes in the morning. But, of course, one can also say he is allowed but that would not be helpful. For me it means the same. Compared to Zen, one can say everything is allowed (or, nothing is disallowed) but some things are not helpful and should therefore be avoided in Zen. What is the difference? One might eat cakes when on a diet but it is not helpful. So it is actually 'not allowed', is it? In fact, you can say everything is allowed in life (we are all free); it is allowed to neglect a red traffic light but you have to pay a fine if caught. It is allowed to murder but you probably have to cope with some psychological problems, you have to get in jail if caught, and so on. But that is not the way I want to go. I say it is not allowed to neglect a red traffic light. It is also not allowed to eat to much cake when on a diet (because it is not 'helpful'). And thus, some things are not allowed in Zen. Thanks BTW for whispering in my ear, you are very gentle. Eugene --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Smart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Saturday, May 06 Eugene Wrote: > > >Bill, of course you are right. That's why I originally quoted 'allowed > >in Zen'. Still thanks for waking me up - but next time just call my > >name or poke me gently ;-) > > Eugene, I Whisper In Your Ear: > > Your words 'allowed in Zen' was to what I was referring. > > Zen practice does not have things that are allowed or disallowed. There are > no rules, but that doesn't mean that just whatever you want to do is zen > practice. There are no rules in the sense that there are not specific sets > of things that may be done and that may not be done. Telling the truth is > considered helpful, but lying is not forbidden - in fact in some > circumstances it is very proper. There are things, however, that people > throughout the ages have found helpful and things that they have found are > not helpful. > > Becoming distracted by trying to do or thinking about too many things at > once is one of the things that have been found to be unhelpful. It's > certainly not forbidden and might not even apply to your zen practice - > although I'd be very, very surprised if it didn't apply since it is such a > fundamental teaching. > > (This 'no rules' thing is not the same for Buddhism. I don't consider zen > to be wholly contained within the province of Buddhism so can claim to > practice zen but not be a Buddhist. Jarvis or Dave do see zen and Buddhism > as inseparable, I believe, and can help you understand more of that from > their Buddhist perspective. They both have a lot of good information on > this.) > > ...Bill! > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Everything you need is one click away. Make Yahoo! your home page now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/AHchtC/4FxNAA/yQLSAA/S27xlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today! Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/