Al,

Edgar is right (that really means I have the same opinion).  No 
attachments, only THIS.  That is all zen is.  It's up to you to 
decide whether that is lame-o or not.  I think putting your belief in 
a idea of a life force or chi is pretty lame-o.  You might as well re-
read Genesis and believe in a talking snake, or maybe even a soul - 
with or without a hole.  All of these things are maya, and a lot of 
maya does make you feel good, comfortable, in control, understanding -
 that warm and fuzzy feeling.  Zen is not warm and fuzzy.  Zen is 
crisp and clear.  It's the ultimate WSYWIG.

When you experience THIS, and only THIS, (without any maya distorting 
things), then you experience ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING - full and 
complete, not 'just a void', unless your idea of a void is what you 
have left when you eliminate all maya.

While I'm posting to you I'd like to address one other thing you've 
said.  You don't like the idea that zen is 'whatever you want'.  I 
don't either.  Zen is not just 'whatever you want'.  Zen is THIS, and 
THIS is not just 'whatever you want.  'Whatever you want' requires 
a 'you' (self) and an attachment.  You cannot experience THIS through 
a self or under the influence of attachments.

A Christian equivilent to this would be 'not my will but Yours be 
done.'  This is not just 'anything you want'.

...Bill!

...Bill!

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Fitness63" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> From: Edgar Owen >Right, let go of everything. No attachments. Only 
> this....>
> 
> If that is all Zen is, it seems pretty lame-O. I thought the idea 
of getting 
> to ONLY THIS is what JM was talking about. You get to the 
impermanence in 
> order to get to the CHI, the life-force.
> 
> You are saying that just getting to the VOID is all there is. That 
is what I 
> would call the hole in your soul.
>



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