Well, Bill. If we say, THIS is Chi.  The world is all maya except Chi.  
Can you accept?  If I accept your term of THIS, which I always did. Just 
the way you described it is incomplete.  Can you not accept my term of 
Chi?  Chi gives life to your "THIS".  Chi is the original THIS.

:-)

Bill Smart wrote:
>
> Al,
>
> Edgar is right (that really means I have the same opinion). No
> attachments, only THIS. That is all zen is. It's up to you to
> decide whether that is lame-o or not. I think putting your belief in
> a idea of a life force or chi is pretty lame-o. You might as well re-
> read Genesis and believe in a talking snake, or maybe even a soul -
> with or without a hole. All of these things are maya, and a lot of
> maya does make you feel good, comfortable, in control, understanding -
> that warm and fuzzy feeling. Zen is not warm and fuzzy. Zen is
> crisp and clear. It's the ultimate WSYWIG.
>
> When you experience THIS, and only THIS, (without any maya distorting
> things), then you experience ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING - full and
> complete, not 'just a void', unless your idea of a void is what you
> have left when you eliminate all maya.
>
> While I'm posting to you I'd like to address one other thing you've
> said. You don't like the idea that zen is 'whatever you want'. I
> don't either. Zen is not just 'whatever you want'. Zen is THIS, and
> THIS is not just 'whatever you want. 'Whatever you want' requires
> a 'you' (self) and an attachment. You cannot experience THIS through
> a self or under the influence of attachments.
>
> A Christian equivilent to this would be 'not my will but Yours be
> done.' This is not just 'anything you want'.
>
> ...Bill!
>
> ...Bill!
>
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, 
> "Fitness63" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > From: Edgar Owen >Right, let go of everything. No attachments. Only
> > this....>
> >
> > If that is all Zen is, it seems pretty lame-O. I thought the idea
> of getting
> > to ONLY THIS is what JM was talking about. You get to the
> impermanence in
> > order to get to the CHI, the life-force.
> >
> > You are saying that just getting to the VOID is all there is. That
> is what I
> > would call the hole in your soul.
> >
>
>  

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