Well Al, It is not important how Zen is the same or not to Chan, because 
these are mental comparisons in the realm of forms, form of words, 
though in Chinese and Japanese writing they are identical, because after 
all Zen is from Chan. 

Whatever the incident, whether watching a tree or eating an apple, 
always try to connect to the Chi of it, instead of describing, 
comparing, labeling with one's mind.   Whatever we do, instead of being 
affected by the impermanent form, try to connect to the permanent but 
always changing Chi.  That is all.

If you discover that you are confused, then perhaps you are thinking.  
Drop the thinking, trust your heart, the original Divine.

The world is One, meaning complete and whole and always providing.  
There is no need to be defeated by labels, they are human creations.

Fitness63 wrote:
> From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - The question is what is reality. According to
> Diamond Sutra, reality is Buddha, or Final Form. Then only after we 
> surpass
> Form and Formlessness, then we see Buddha. Final form is the universal
> support of all forms, which is the life energy of everything. How can 
> we be
> connected with that energy? Scientists would suggest that we sync with it
> through our own energy. How else? Both posts by Edgar, the one about "our
> purpose in life and Chi" are both right on.>
> It is seeming to me that Chan and Zen are not so far apart then, though I
> think that the insistence on ignoring karma, dharma, and chi are more 
> about
> style than substance.
> These zen boys and girls want to be different and that is all about ego,
> Ego is very prevalent among almost every group that I participate in,
> especially religious groups.


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